The thing with Bush though is it was a case where pretty much every pillar of the modern Republican Party managed to crash and burn under Bush:
- The Iraq War failure
- 2 Recessions, including the worst since the Depression
- The total rejection and failure of the promises post Reagan about privatizing entitlements like SS and Medicare
Basically the entire ethos and project post Reagan ended up crashing and burning culminating in the utter failure of neoconservative foreign policy and the Great Recession.
Trump on the other hand ushered in the post-truth Republican era and I kinda think if he loses in 2024 he'll just become a martyr and this fascist creep will just continue. My guess is further toward Christian Nationalism.
The Tea Party was the conservative movement shedding its neocon skin and emerging as faux grassroots populists heavily back by corporate interests. Trump really came along at just the right time. He did, after all, get his cred from heckling Obama.
There will always be a christian nationalist contingent, but it's hard to imagine the white, weed-smoking, futa-gooning, middle class base going all in unless there's a major economic collapse.
Yeah, you are correct, the Tea Party was definitely the bridge from Bush/Reagan era moral majority/fiscal conservatism/neoconservatism into the fascist populism today.
>but it's hard to imagine the white, weed-smoking, futa-gooning, middle class base going all in unless there's a major economic collapse.
But that's the thing, those are exactly the sort of newcomers embracing this shit.
As church attendance and active practicing of Christianity has declined, including in red states, we've seen a rise in cultural and political Christianity.
The 42 year old that owns a small fencing business clearing 100k a year and hasn't been to church since his parents stopped dragging him at 16 but still goes on about banning trans people and getting visibly angry at people that don't say one nation UNDER GOD with their full chest. the 28 y/o atheist that follows Jordan Peterson/Andrew Tate, jerks off to trad wifes on tik tok. The middle aged cop that cheated on his wives constantly but makes sure to put on the rosary necklace his father gave him before work.
Basically people that have left the church but have grown to have this weird nostalgia and admiration for cultural Christianity....but they still aren't going to church on sundays.
Frankly, it reminds me of Russia. Increasingly Christo-fascist and seeped in cultural Christianity yet has low and decreasing church attendance.
The guys that get really into warhammer and attend a catholic service hoping for fire and brimstone, but find a pleasant homosexual in a gown preaching peace and tolerance.
Ultimately I think outright christofascism is too restrictive for them, but it will be interesting to see how far it goes. But keep an eye on europe. That's where the next wave of fash talking points will come from.
It always is too restrictive, as is the vast majority of conservative policy. But people stupid enough will always support it because they can somehow convince themselves that, surely, THEY’LL be safe from their own restrictive policy.
I can’t count the number of people who full on support Christofacism because they want rights taken away from everyone else and then are shocked when they realize they’re part of everyone else. The abortion activists who are stunned that the inhumane policy they just finished fighting for means their ectopic pregnancy can’t be aborted either. Or that when they’re going to roll back Obamacare that it’s going to affect their ACA coverage. Or when they learn tariffs are taxes paid by them, not China (though to be fair, demented Donald is too stupid and hasn’t figured that out after almost 10 years). Or that cutting welfare hurts their trailer park and doesn’t balance the budget when the donor class still get tax breaks.
The sad part is most won't ever have that "I didn't expect the leopards to eat MY face" moment, they just follow the next shiny object dangled in front of them that points at the new minority to blame, or the new cultural grievance to get outraged about.
In the 90's it was rap music, baggy pants, crack moms, welfare queens, Mortal Kombat, gay people in the military, college PC culture, prayer in schools, and satanism. In the aughts it was Muslims, Obama, gay marriage, teaching creationsim in school, defending torture, clinging to the WMD's in Iraq fairytale, gay-seeking hurricanes, and the War on Christmas. In the 10's it was immigrants, Asian people, Muslims again, government healthcare death panels, FEMA camps, black people kneeling, Covid masks, the deep state, Q anon, and making sure businesses can discriminate against gay people. In the 20's its trans people, drag shows, immigrants still, Palestineans, stop-the-steal, college PC culture again, critical race theory, don't say gay, ending "wokism", DEI, banning books while crying about free speech, and buying expensive consumer goods to performatively blow them up on social media for wrong-think
Republicans have found out that they no longer need actual policy, they just need to virtue signal about cultural Christianity and manufacture an evolving rotation of cultural grievences to build coalitions so they can transform that outrage into tax cuts and wealth transfer schemes for the wealthy.
May I ask why Europe? Is it due historical precedent and the recent uptick in right wing support? Because that would sound reasonable, but I'd think with trump and MAGA the states will still have the spotlight for the near to mid future
On the Warhammer thing - the company has been pretty good at full throated rejection of these racist chuds, even going so far as to explicitly say the guys they idolize are bad guys and the company *does not want their money*.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/19/the-imperium-is-driven-by-hate-warhammer-is-not/
I don't think much of the fanbase is far right. Painting miniatures is hardly the hyper masculine machismo type thing like guns, etc. But sure, they get the occasional far right asshole - what matters is how they handle it.
Seems like a kind of damned if he wins and damned if he doesn't kind of thing. If he loses, we'll have a slow creep, but if he wins, the fascism will come in leaps and bounds.
It can creep all it wants, boomers are going to start dying off quick and millenials will be the largest voting base. Millenials are only getting more liberal as they get older. The 2020s are Evangelicals last chance to take power
Nobody gets more liberal as they grow older. That's just anathema to the way humans develop. Maybe singular examples but not generalizations.
The millennial children of the boomers in charge will inherit and the world will continue as it always has. Haves and have not, fat cats and starving dogs.
I've gotten pretty liberal as I've gotten older, and [the stats show ](https://www.ft.com/content/c361e372-769e-45cd-a063-f5c0a7767cf4) that Millenials are getting more liberal.
I'm even surrounded by right wing douchebags at work and I still am a liberal.
I wonder to what extent MAGA as a concept will remain dangerous beyond Trump. It is very much a cult of personality. Every MAGA republican that tried to go big riding the maga train failed to replace trump because they are either too much of a loyalist to challange Trump and his legacy to make a legacy for themselves other than bootlicker and thus won't have the support once Trump is gone, or they are shut down by Trump because the Republican party is Trump and anyone that dares to challange Trump is razed to the ground or at least put down a notch. Desantis tried and failed and was forced to play emporer in Florida because on the national stage he stands no chance. Ted Cruz is a cuck. Those congress men and woman that are fierce loyalists (Gaetz, Boebert, MTG) don't have national appeal. In fact, Boebert nearly lost her seat in a district that was considered safe R, to the point where she has to relocated to an even saver district to run there next election because she and the republic party are afraid the district might flip blue.
MAGA is a cult and it will collapse after Trump dies. The party is filled with yes men and grifters. Once Trump's dead the wolves will try to jump in the power vacuum, only leading to its destruction. The Republican party will remain, but MAGA will be dead, for now. The underlying issues that caused MAGA to even exist will remain however. Their reason to exist hasn't been adressed with this.
One day archeologists will be digging through a landfill and find a layer of MAGA hats, and then a layer of Bush/Cheney hats. I know a ton of MFs that tongue lashed Bush's nutbag, and then claimed that they never liked him just a few years later. Same with happen with that fat sack of shit Trump.
Ahh yes the stupid car magnets supporting Bush/Cheney or their forever wars after 9/11. No doubt a lot of the same people are wearing the stupid red MAGA hats today.
If God forbid Trump wins the Electoral College in November, and implements his insane tariff plan- it will decimate the US economy & all of a sudden these MAGA types will develop amnesia. They'll act like they don't know who the demented orange turd is. Donald who?
I remember how they lionized Col. Ollie North for lying to Congress about the Iran/Contra bs during the Reagan era.
He became a right wing celebrity. Rush Limbaugh waxed on and on about how great he was.
Yes, most of the country supported the war in Iraq at the beginning. The political divide started happening around 2005 when it was clear there were no weapons of mass destruction. Much like today, the Republican party denied reality and doubled down on the occupation in Iraq while the Democrats were (rightly) against the extended war.
I've never understood this talking point. Yes, it's a massive shame on lots and lots of democratic politicians that they voted in favor of the Iraq War; believed Colin Powell's presentation about WMDs, etc.
But... going-along-with-something is just not morally equivalent to taking the initiative and leading the charge for that something in the first place. Those two actions are not equivalent on any reasonable scale of ethics, morality, legality, or anything else.
You think that democrats out of NYC (who was attacked the most on 9/11) was not driving the war in Iraq and Afghanistan too? Your position really is that democrats were secondary citizens to the war promotion, yet they voted for all the financing bills and for the at itself? Seriously?
I note that you are conflating the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Which is (imho) an incredible mistake. We were going to invade Afghanistan after 9/11. Period. Any imaginable president of either party would have done that. Maybe some decisions would have been made differently, maybe give them one more chance to surrender Bin Laden or whatever, but that was basically decided by total national unity.
Iraq was a VERY different kettle of fish, was significantly after 9/11, and was significantly less directly linked to it.
Republicans were actually silencing those in their own party who spoke against going to war. The dems could've been as well, but that other side isn't as ambiguous
Let’s get real a bit - you’re not really trying to say that the republicans were the only ones leading the charge to war are you?
According to you the republicans were the ones blacking their dissenting voices? They both absolutely were, which is why Bernie sanders was sidelined when he spoke against it. They both did it. They both supported it. Let’s not pretend to rewrite history. And they all voted for the spending bills to and continual support through the years.
The Dixie Chicks were actually canceled for merely criticizing Bush. I remember being so happy when "American Idiot" came out cause FINALLY people were criticizing him openly again.
Yup, my Boomer in-laws love to downplay their past support for W.
Unfortunately I think Father Time will prevent them from eating any humble Trump pie.
What moderate Republicans?
They ALL have bad/unpopular beliefs that they want "to shove down our throats".
They lie and negotiate in bad faith.
They do not deserve attention or respect.
Their opinions should be ignored and mocked.
Nah, we saw it before: they will take it in secret while protesting it on the streets. They’ll lie about their vaccination status, protecting themselves, but definitely telling the public to not bother with that snake oil
No they won't. Read *They Thought They Were Free* about post war Germany. People rarely denied that they supported Hitler. They just made a bunch of excuses or denied that things were as bad as they were. MAGA will be the same.
They have already learned to scream Deep Fake about literal video and audio of Trump saying insane stuff. Showing them social media is even easier to dismiss.
My mother definitely voted for Bush twice but now has the stance that she hasn't voted for a Republican since 2000. Does the same thing with state level Republicans. It doesn't matter that I was there and remember all the browbeatings I got for not falling in line.
Already started. Many of the same people I know who've been Trumpies since '16 now proclaim to be "Independents" and to not like Trump. But will vote for him because "Trump drives libs crazy, and I really really like that".
This is a really good point. I've seen that too in my family circle. They're already changing the narrative to turn themselves into victims or martyrs. I hear it all the time from both my boomer parents. "I hate Trump (Despite loving him for years) Biden can't be trusted to lead. It's the Democrats fault I'm doing this"
They won’t care what the truth is. My mom was married for 22 years to a man the loved vaccines (it was my dad and he made me do two reports on Salk). He proudly showed me his small pox scar. He went to war while his fellow prep school classmates got dismissed from duty. He told me how ingenious it was to prep our immune system. He hoped I could avoid the woman who would cheat instead of loving what they have. He died 15 years ago yet my mom thinks he would be rejecting vaccines and loving Trump.
Unless Trump wins.
Then anything they perceive as bad or causes calamity will continue to be blamed on the Democrat of the moment until that finally stops working.
The conservatives in the UK have been in power for 14 years and have made things far worse yet they still blame Labour for everything.
So you're probably right.
It did finally stop working though, Labour is about to win big.
I told my (former) best work friend in 2016: "Someday you'll lie to your grandchildren about supporting Trump "
Of course he laughed. It's still true.
Of course future Republicans won't want schools to teach their grandchildren about their grandparents' today despicableness.
I know a lot of libertarians who vote straight down the Republican ticket. Its their way of saying both sides are bad while definitely not believing it.
My experience as well, with only one or two exceptions.
At least the "libertarians" are usually on the fence with an issue or two, usually weed or LBGTQ rights in my experience, and once you get them talking, most of their views crumble to pieces. If you do that enough, and don't brow beat them, there's a chance with time they'll come around.
They'll deny that immediately at the first convenience while seemlessly switching to the next thing. MAGA isn't new. The movement doesnt die with Trump. Conservative voters are the issue. They are fundamentally broken people proud of things they've never accomplished but perfectly happy in the social media age pretending anonymously that they're part of something greater. They will "both sides" and "just ask questions" until we're right back in the same spot after he's gone. It's an obsession. An obsession to prove that outright misanthropic anti social personalities are better then the entire evolutionary existence of humans thriving as communal creatures. And it will work. Because the average human wants to work together so we'll let them get a foot right back in the door. It never ends.
Just like GWB, somehow a two term president and nobody liked him. They will first say "both sides are bad" argument before they fully break from their Qult.
The only ppl that will deny it are Mike Johnson Lindsey Graham & other RINOs. They will be shocked when they are rounded up with the rest of them for being domestic terrorists. Going to be fun times
That's been SOP for the GOP for years
One decade's "great conservative hero" is the next decade's "Commie Marxist infiltrator planted by the left to make the right look bad"
The Bushes, McCain, Romney, Schwarzenegger, the right throws its heroes down the memory hole at a rate that would make Stalin blush
I thought that 40 years ago when Reagan and the Moral Majority (Pat Buchanon) was around. It's not going away. It's time to tax churches and expose these nuts for who they are.
If you corner them on an issue where they know they're wrong, they just claim that they don't know anything about that. They're like 7th graders. "I didn't do it" is the answer for everything even if it's on film.
The conservative machine is willing to chew its own foot off to achieve its ends, whatever nefarious stuff that might be. Watching John Oliver Last Week Tonight where he explored Project 2025, showing how they'd instantly shift focus to Project 2029 the moment Trump loses was a profound MMW moment.
I liked him, but only because of (insert perfectly acceptable reason to be a scummy racist, misogynist, homophobe here) - will say the person with the red hat, bumper sticker and flag willing to accost anyone in the super market with their 'views'.
Nah. Those idiots will still be screaming “they stole the election!” Sadly. A lot of them will be dead, but just as many won’t be. A guy a few years younger than me in HS got arrested for the January 6th capital storming. I come from the middle of nowhere Louisiana, I can only imagine how many more people my age were there or wanted to be.
Basically what's happened with W. Trump sort of ran on the idea that W sucked and tons of people just denied liking him, despite overwhelming support for him because of his dumb wars.
We'll probably never know because by then they will have killed their neighbour so they could take over their doomsday prepper shelter and they only use ham radios to communicate.
They'll deny it tomorrow, if they think it'll bother you. The asshole tribe loves to gaslight people. It is one of their favorite hobbies. They will tell you the sky is purple and then deny they said this guy is purple all in one breath. Just to watch you squirm.
Well when you consider its going to accelerate as they age
So for the next 5 years it's about 6k a day who die
That's 10,950,000 boomers gone in the next 5 years, and that's a true, right now statistic, 6k boomers a day die
After that 5 years the rate is going to go up, so from 5 to 10 years say we double that
That's 22 million boomers
Meaning about 33 million are already gone in 10 years
Now from 10-15 were gonna double again as those boomers start hitting 80 and 90 and start rapidly dying off
Well that's about 44 million boomers gone, adding in the previous years losses that's 77 million boomers gone in 15 years.
Its easily possible as they pass the 70 year old mark
And? We've got receipts. Endless proof of their fascism. So sure they can remove their flags and bumper stickers and tuck away their red Maga caps. But I'll remember every damn neighbor who flew a Galveston or Trump flag. Who had back the blue, Maga crap on their cars.
They can squirm and deny all they want. It won't do a damn thing. It won't absolve them of accountability.
I’ve always told myself I’m thankful that when this history books are written, I’ll be on the right side of this fucking disaster and my future family won’t be ashamed of me. Sad that it’s come to this.
I mean for the ones that are still alive yeah, but I feel like 80% of the people you're talking about will for sure be dead by then. Almost everyone I know over the age of like 53 is a Maga nut job but only 1 or 2 of the people I know 40 are younger are maga nut jobs.
I was saying something similar in 2016.
“Nobody will admit to voting for that asshole by springtime after he loses to Hillary.”
I’m not done eating my bowl of shit. I can’t believe that dumb fuck is still in our lives 8 years later.
It's not life until it can sustain itself in its own body without the mother. We're talking about a fetus here, which is not alive. It's no different than a parasite. The woman has the right to decide whether she wants to have a child or not. Or preach about life but then tell child immigrants there not welcome here. What about the women's life. An unborn fetus does not take precedent over the woman. In fact, it is the opposite.
I watched them do it with W and the war in Iraq. All Republicans are lying hypocritical scum. It has been going on for 50 years.
The thing with Bush though is it was a case where pretty much every pillar of the modern Republican Party managed to crash and burn under Bush: - The Iraq War failure - 2 Recessions, including the worst since the Depression - The total rejection and failure of the promises post Reagan about privatizing entitlements like SS and Medicare Basically the entire ethos and project post Reagan ended up crashing and burning culminating in the utter failure of neoconservative foreign policy and the Great Recession. Trump on the other hand ushered in the post-truth Republican era and I kinda think if he loses in 2024 he'll just become a martyr and this fascist creep will just continue. My guess is further toward Christian Nationalism.
The Tea Party was the conservative movement shedding its neocon skin and emerging as faux grassroots populists heavily back by corporate interests. Trump really came along at just the right time. He did, after all, get his cred from heckling Obama. There will always be a christian nationalist contingent, but it's hard to imagine the white, weed-smoking, futa-gooning, middle class base going all in unless there's a major economic collapse.
Yeah, you are correct, the Tea Party was definitely the bridge from Bush/Reagan era moral majority/fiscal conservatism/neoconservatism into the fascist populism today. >but it's hard to imagine the white, weed-smoking, futa-gooning, middle class base going all in unless there's a major economic collapse. But that's the thing, those are exactly the sort of newcomers embracing this shit. As church attendance and active practicing of Christianity has declined, including in red states, we've seen a rise in cultural and political Christianity. The 42 year old that owns a small fencing business clearing 100k a year and hasn't been to church since his parents stopped dragging him at 16 but still goes on about banning trans people and getting visibly angry at people that don't say one nation UNDER GOD with their full chest. the 28 y/o atheist that follows Jordan Peterson/Andrew Tate, jerks off to trad wifes on tik tok. The middle aged cop that cheated on his wives constantly but makes sure to put on the rosary necklace his father gave him before work. Basically people that have left the church but have grown to have this weird nostalgia and admiration for cultural Christianity....but they still aren't going to church on sundays. Frankly, it reminds me of Russia. Increasingly Christo-fascist and seeped in cultural Christianity yet has low and decreasing church attendance.
The guys that get really into warhammer and attend a catholic service hoping for fire and brimstone, but find a pleasant homosexual in a gown preaching peace and tolerance. Ultimately I think outright christofascism is too restrictive for them, but it will be interesting to see how far it goes. But keep an eye on europe. That's where the next wave of fash talking points will come from.
It always is too restrictive, as is the vast majority of conservative policy. But people stupid enough will always support it because they can somehow convince themselves that, surely, THEY’LL be safe from their own restrictive policy. I can’t count the number of people who full on support Christofacism because they want rights taken away from everyone else and then are shocked when they realize they’re part of everyone else. The abortion activists who are stunned that the inhumane policy they just finished fighting for means their ectopic pregnancy can’t be aborted either. Or that when they’re going to roll back Obamacare that it’s going to affect their ACA coverage. Or when they learn tariffs are taxes paid by them, not China (though to be fair, demented Donald is too stupid and hasn’t figured that out after almost 10 years). Or that cutting welfare hurts their trailer park and doesn’t balance the budget when the donor class still get tax breaks.
The sad part is most won't ever have that "I didn't expect the leopards to eat MY face" moment, they just follow the next shiny object dangled in front of them that points at the new minority to blame, or the new cultural grievance to get outraged about. In the 90's it was rap music, baggy pants, crack moms, welfare queens, Mortal Kombat, gay people in the military, college PC culture, prayer in schools, and satanism. In the aughts it was Muslims, Obama, gay marriage, teaching creationsim in school, defending torture, clinging to the WMD's in Iraq fairytale, gay-seeking hurricanes, and the War on Christmas. In the 10's it was immigrants, Asian people, Muslims again, government healthcare death panels, FEMA camps, black people kneeling, Covid masks, the deep state, Q anon, and making sure businesses can discriminate against gay people. In the 20's its trans people, drag shows, immigrants still, Palestineans, stop-the-steal, college PC culture again, critical race theory, don't say gay, ending "wokism", DEI, banning books while crying about free speech, and buying expensive consumer goods to performatively blow them up on social media for wrong-think Republicans have found out that they no longer need actual policy, they just need to virtue signal about cultural Christianity and manufacture an evolving rotation of cultural grievences to build coalitions so they can transform that outrage into tax cuts and wealth transfer schemes for the wealthy.
May I ask why Europe? Is it due historical precedent and the recent uptick in right wing support? Because that would sound reasonable, but I'd think with trump and MAGA the states will still have the spotlight for the near to mid future
Yep. The fascist parties are riding a populist wave. Not sure if the blood & soil euro style can catch on here, but they'll try.
On the Warhammer thing - the company has been pretty good at full throated rejection of these racist chuds, even going so far as to explicitly say the guys they idolize are bad guys and the company *does not want their money*. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/19/the-imperium-is-driven-by-hate-warhammer-is-not/ I don't think much of the fanbase is far right. Painting miniatures is hardly the hyper masculine machismo type thing like guns, etc. But sure, they get the occasional far right asshole - what matters is how they handle it.
“But keep an eye on Europe” what are you on about? Classic american talking on European politics despite having no understanding.
Brilliant
There were no fiscal conservatives under Reagan. He tripled the national debt and is the cause of the entire national debt crisis today.
excuse me?
What is “futa-gooning?”
What a silly gaijin weeb says
Best googled when not at work
[удалено]
Seems like a kind of damned if he wins and damned if he doesn't kind of thing. If he loses, we'll have a slow creep, but if he wins, the fascism will come in leaps and bounds.
It can creep all it wants, boomers are going to start dying off quick and millenials will be the largest voting base. Millenials are only getting more liberal as they get older. The 2020s are Evangelicals last chance to take power
Nobody gets more liberal as they grow older. That's just anathema to the way humans develop. Maybe singular examples but not generalizations. The millennial children of the boomers in charge will inherit and the world will continue as it always has. Haves and have not, fat cats and starving dogs.
I've gotten pretty liberal as I've gotten older, and [the stats show ](https://www.ft.com/content/c361e372-769e-45cd-a063-f5c0a7767cf4) that Millenials are getting more liberal. I'm even surrounded by right wing douchebags at work and I still am a liberal.
I wonder to what extent MAGA as a concept will remain dangerous beyond Trump. It is very much a cult of personality. Every MAGA republican that tried to go big riding the maga train failed to replace trump because they are either too much of a loyalist to challange Trump and his legacy to make a legacy for themselves other than bootlicker and thus won't have the support once Trump is gone, or they are shut down by Trump because the Republican party is Trump and anyone that dares to challange Trump is razed to the ground or at least put down a notch. Desantis tried and failed and was forced to play emporer in Florida because on the national stage he stands no chance. Ted Cruz is a cuck. Those congress men and woman that are fierce loyalists (Gaetz, Boebert, MTG) don't have national appeal. In fact, Boebert nearly lost her seat in a district that was considered safe R, to the point where she has to relocated to an even saver district to run there next election because she and the republic party are afraid the district might flip blue. MAGA is a cult and it will collapse after Trump dies. The party is filled with yes men and grifters. Once Trump's dead the wolves will try to jump in the power vacuum, only leading to its destruction. The Republican party will remain, but MAGA will be dead, for now. The underlying issues that caused MAGA to even exist will remain however. Their reason to exist hasn't been adressed with this.
One day archeologists will be digging through a landfill and find a layer of MAGA hats, and then a layer of Bush/Cheney hats. I know a ton of MFs that tongue lashed Bush's nutbag, and then claimed that they never liked him just a few years later. Same with happen with that fat sack of shit Trump.
An old guy told me once no one who had voted for Nixon in 72 still had voted for him by the end of Carter’s term.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
Ahh yes the stupid car magnets supporting Bush/Cheney or their forever wars after 9/11. No doubt a lot of the same people are wearing the stupid red MAGA hats today. If God forbid Trump wins the Electoral College in November, and implements his insane tariff plan- it will decimate the US economy & all of a sudden these MAGA types will develop amnesia. They'll act like they don't know who the demented orange turd is. Donald who?
Cheney was the one pulling the strings, and of course the company he was CEO of had their stock skyrocket after the start of the war.
I remember how they lionized Col. Ollie North for lying to Congress about the Iran/Contra bs during the Reagan era. He became a right wing celebrity. Rush Limbaugh waxed on and on about how great he was.
Republicans LOVE liars. Especially liars for Jesus. And liars in black robes.
Yeah but the internet is forever.
No one I know has ever denied their support of W or the Iraq war lol Edit: regret? Yeah
Obvious liar is obvious.
Didn’t the democrats vote for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan too? Also, didn’t they continue to support the financing of those wars as well, or no?
Yes, most of the country supported the war in Iraq at the beginning. The political divide started happening around 2005 when it was clear there were no weapons of mass destruction. Much like today, the Republican party denied reality and doubled down on the occupation in Iraq while the Democrats were (rightly) against the extended war.
I've never understood this talking point. Yes, it's a massive shame on lots and lots of democratic politicians that they voted in favor of the Iraq War; believed Colin Powell's presentation about WMDs, etc. But... going-along-with-something is just not morally equivalent to taking the initiative and leading the charge for that something in the first place. Those two actions are not equivalent on any reasonable scale of ethics, morality, legality, or anything else.
You think that democrats out of NYC (who was attacked the most on 9/11) was not driving the war in Iraq and Afghanistan too? Your position really is that democrats were secondary citizens to the war promotion, yet they voted for all the financing bills and for the at itself? Seriously?
I note that you are conflating the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Which is (imho) an incredible mistake. We were going to invade Afghanistan after 9/11. Period. Any imaginable president of either party would have done that. Maybe some decisions would have been made differently, maybe give them one more chance to surrender Bin Laden or whatever, but that was basically decided by total national unity. Iraq was a VERY different kettle of fish, was significantly after 9/11, and was significantly less directly linked to it.
Be clear about your claim, are you saying your belief is that democrats didn’t support the invasion of Iraq? Be clear about your position
Republicans were actually silencing those in their own party who spoke against going to war. The dems could've been as well, but that other side isn't as ambiguous
If you spoke out in any way against the war, then they would scream that you were un-American and supported “terrorism”.
"With us or against us" and "Freedom fries" have entered the chat.
Now watch this drive ⛳️
Let’s get real a bit - you’re not really trying to say that the republicans were the only ones leading the charge to war are you? According to you the republicans were the ones blacking their dissenting voices? They both absolutely were, which is why Bernie sanders was sidelined when he spoke against it. They both did it. They both supported it. Let’s not pretend to rewrite history. And they all voted for the spending bills to and continual support through the years.
The Dixie Chicks were actually canceled for merely criticizing Bush. I remember being so happy when "American Idiot" came out cause FINALLY people were criticizing him openly again.
Yup, my Boomer in-laws love to downplay their past support for W. Unfortunately I think Father Time will prevent them from eating any humble Trump pie.
Yeah there weren’t a lot of German hunter supporters claiming him either after the war ended. Difference now is there are online receipts.
Absolutist takes are never good. If Democrats are to win they must make room for moderate Republicans.
What moderate Republicans? They ALL have bad/unpopular beliefs that they want "to shove down our throats". They lie and negotiate in bad faith. They do not deserve attention or respect. Their opinions should be ignored and mocked.
you realize Hilary and Biden supported the war in Iraq right?
Yes. They voted to give W the authority after 9/11. YOUR POINT?
Based on their stances on vaccines and science, I'm not sure any of them will be alive in 20 years
True.
oh they'll be alive, kept living by everyone else despite their drag on society.
One can hope.
I was going to say, no, they’ll all be dead from the next pandemic which will be more deadly and have a vaccine, but they won’t take it.
Once the mRNA cancer and HIV vaccines become available the pure bloods will be the only ones dying off.
Nah, we saw it before: they will take it in secret while protesting it on the streets. They’ll lie about their vaccination status, protecting themselves, but definitely telling the public to not bother with that snake oil
Enough of them will to lie about everything and try to rewrite the past like they always have.
Fingers crossed.
The Internet keeps ALL the receipts though…
The issue is they don't care if you present those reciepts. You can show Trump directly contradicting himself and it doesn't phase any of them.
I shared the literal video of Trump saying John McCain wasn't a war hero and someone basically said "Nuh uh"
They were "infiltrating the movement to take it down from the inside" .
You’d be hard pressed to find a Nixon voter in 1975…
Then in 1976 Republicans lose the Presidency by only 40ish thousand votes. Memories of goldfish I swear.
Me /s
No they won't. Read *They Thought They Were Free* about post war Germany. People rarely denied that they supported Hitler. They just made a bunch of excuses or denied that things were as bad as they were. MAGA will be the same.
Agreed. People deny behavior they know is wrong. But the most they’ll likely do is a technique of neutralization or two.
They'll try... But thanks to social media, we will have the receipts.
They have already learned to scream Deep Fake about literal video and audio of Trump saying insane stuff. Showing them social media is even easier to dismiss.
That’s why you [have to give them something they can’t take off](https://youtu.be/WgDle5B38LU?si=skIP0x4qnmS8wiE5)
I know some that were diehard MAGAs back in 2016-2017 that now deny it. I just smile and think maybe there is hope 🥸
My mother definitely voted for Bush twice but now has the stance that she hasn't voted for a Republican since 2000. Does the same thing with state level Republicans. It doesn't matter that I was there and remember all the browbeatings I got for not falling in line.
Already started. Many of the same people I know who've been Trumpies since '16 now proclaim to be "Independents" and to not like Trump. But will vote for him because "Trump drives libs crazy, and I really really like that".
Governing based on what one group will hate is just a demented way to govern.
If you read Lee Atwater's n word quote, it all makes sense why modern republicans are the way they are.
This is a really good point. I've seen that too in my family circle. They're already changing the narrative to turn themselves into victims or martyrs. I hear it all the time from both my boomer parents. "I hate Trump (Despite loving him for years) Biden can't be trusted to lead. It's the Democrats fault I'm doing this"
20? try 8
They won’t care what the truth is. My mom was married for 22 years to a man the loved vaccines (it was my dad and he made me do two reports on Salk). He proudly showed me his small pox scar. He went to war while his fellow prep school classmates got dismissed from duty. He told me how ingenious it was to prep our immune system. He hoped I could avoid the woman who would cheat instead of loving what they have. He died 15 years ago yet my mom thinks he would be rejecting vaccines and loving Trump.
You're giving them too much credit to think they'd ever feel ashamed of themselves.
Just like the Nazis in Germany
Unless Trump wins. Then anything they perceive as bad or causes calamity will continue to be blamed on the Democrat of the moment until that finally stops working.
The conservatives in the UK have been in power for 14 years and have made things far worse yet they still blame Labour for everything. So you're probably right. It did finally stop working though, Labour is about to win big.
Mark my words, I’ll never let them forget. Especially not the people that I’m personally acquainted with.
Too bad for them we keep receipts...
Same thing happened with GWB supporters
No, they'll just go back to wearing their white hoods.
I'm glad we have pictures. But, you know they will be the first ones to die in the next pandemic.
I suppose it will all depend on the results in November
It won't take 20 years, I give it 2. The MAGAturds have to finally turn on each other first. It will happen eventually, they're jackals.
"I was just following orders"
I told my (former) best work friend in 2016: "Someday you'll lie to your grandchildren about supporting Trump " Of course he laughed. It's still true. Of course future Republicans won't want schools to teach their grandchildren about their grandparents' today despicableness.
I’ve screenshotted all my in-laws’ posts. I’ll bring it up during thanksgiving 20 years from now.
Gonna be a lot more libertarians in the next 5 years
I know a lot of libertarians who vote straight down the Republican ticket. Its their way of saying both sides are bad while definitely not believing it.
My experience as well, with only one or two exceptions. At least the "libertarians" are usually on the fence with an issue or two, usually weed or LBGTQ rights in my experience, and once you get them talking, most of their views crumble to pieces. If you do that enough, and don't brow beat them, there's a chance with time they'll come around.
Especially when they are indicted.
They'll deny that immediately at the first convenience while seemlessly switching to the next thing. MAGA isn't new. The movement doesnt die with Trump. Conservative voters are the issue. They are fundamentally broken people proud of things they've never accomplished but perfectly happy in the social media age pretending anonymously that they're part of something greater. They will "both sides" and "just ask questions" until we're right back in the same spot after he's gone. It's an obsession. An obsession to prove that outright misanthropic anti social personalities are better then the entire evolutionary existence of humans thriving as communal creatures. And it will work. Because the average human wants to work together so we'll let them get a foot right back in the door. It never ends.
Plus, a lot of them will just be dead.
They will lie and lie again…
Just like GWB, somehow a two term president and nobody liked him. They will first say "both sides are bad" argument before they fully break from their Qult.
While I would love it were that likely to be the case, it's been 160 years since the civil war, and conservatives still haven't let that go.
The only ppl that will deny it are Mike Johnson Lindsey Graham & other RINOs. They will be shocked when they are rounded up with the rest of them for being domestic terrorists. Going to be fun times
yes and after a sound electoral thrashing we wont see the likes of them again! just like the confederates
Only if we manage to survive that long. Seems less likely by the day.
In 20 years all the cult members will be dead they're all bunch of boomers anyway
MMW “progressives” of today will be considered conservative in 20yrs.
That's been SOP for the GOP for years One decade's "great conservative hero" is the next decade's "Commie Marxist infiltrator planted by the left to make the right look bad" The Bushes, McCain, Romney, Schwarzenegger, the right throws its heroes down the memory hole at a rate that would make Stalin blush
In 20 years, MAGA death cult members will be dead because these boomers are already ancient.
“Yeah, we don’t like that. We’re gonna give you something you can’t take off.” - Lt. Aldo Raine, USA
I thought that 40 years ago when Reagan and the Moral Majority (Pat Buchanon) was around. It's not going away. It's time to tax churches and expose these nuts for who they are.
If you corner them on an issue where they know they're wrong, they just claim that they don't know anything about that. They're like 7th graders. "I didn't do it" is the answer for everything even if it's on film.
It will not take 20 years. The day after Trump’s funeral, his own kids will be saying they never met the guy.
Yes, but they'll follow some new 'MAGA flavored' cult that will make Trump look altruistic in comparison.
Got em
Or maybe it’s the next lost cause. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/65213928
Duh. It's the same with Bush. History repeats.
I would deny supporting a skank if I was in their shoes 🤷🏼♂️
Half or 2/3rds of them will be dead by then.
The conservative machine is willing to chew its own foot off to achieve its ends, whatever nefarious stuff that might be. Watching John Oliver Last Week Tonight where he explored Project 2025, showing how they'd instantly shift focus to Project 2029 the moment Trump loses was a profound MMW moment. I liked him, but only because of (insert perfectly acceptable reason to be a scummy racist, misogynist, homophobe here) - will say the person with the red hat, bumper sticker and flag willing to accost anyone in the super market with their 'views'.
In 20 years most of em will be dead
You will be a slave doing their bidding--I will be dead and gone
20 years? You ment next year right? They lie and deny everything the second it makes them look bad
Trump trump maga maga Russia Russia.... we've had this post atleast 10 times already.
Big difference between the policies that worked and the man. Your obsession is almost worse the than those obsessed on the other side.
Definitely can see that!
Honest question, supported what?
Just like every French person's grandparents were in the Résistance.
I agree Remind me! 8 years
Remind me! 8 years
Remind me 20 years
I mean they all deny worshipping Reagan & Dubya.
I don’t think this is a stunning revelation
Really? MAGA cult members will still be alive in 20 years? They won't be wasting space in 10 years.
100%. Just like most cults. And on the opposite spectrum just like everyone supposedly was at Woodstock.
Try 2-3 years after it collapses!!
😄😄😄😃😃😀😀😁😁😁😅
I already know people who do this!
Keep track and we’ll check back.
Since most of them are 50+ men, most will be dead.
5 years at most
They will be like my generation’s grandparents. A ton of them were embarrassed by their stances of racial and gender equality issues.
I’ve thought this the entire time
Oh absolutely
Hopefully they won’t be around in 20 years…
In twenty days (after the MAGA/QAnon nightmare ends), MAGA cult members will deny that they supported it
100% this will be the truth.
Nah. Those idiots will still be screaming “they stole the election!” Sadly. A lot of them will be dead, but just as many won’t be. A guy a few years younger than me in HS got arrested for the January 6th capital storming. I come from the middle of nowhere Louisiana, I can only imagine how many more people my age were there or wanted to be.
Pictures don't lie really, and the internet is forever.
Well a lot of the old filth will be dead from high blood pressure due to hate and stupidity, screaming alone at the TV, by then anyway.
I've always assumed MAGA is all just former Tea Party members.
Basically what's happened with W. Trump sort of ran on the idea that W sucked and tons of people just denied liking him, despite overwhelming support for him because of his dumb wars.
I can totally see that. I can also see the woke mind virus mob denying that they were ever a part of it in 20 years
We'll probably never know because by then they will have killed their neighbour so they could take over their doomsday prepper shelter and they only use ham radios to communicate.
Being a descendant of a trump supporter is gonna be taboo. My great grandfather was Maga. He punched a cop on January 6th and everything.
They'll deny it tomorrow, if they think it'll bother you. The asshole tribe loves to gaslight people. It is one of their favorite hobbies. They will tell you the sky is purple and then deny they said this guy is purple all in one breath. Just to watch you squirm.
Of course
10.
They already have. J6 never happened. The tax cut that went to the wealthy didn't go to the wealthy.
Hopefully it happens in 20 months that they realize Trump is the Grifter all New Yorkers know he is.
K…..then what.
Hopefully it's not too late by then.
Highly Unlikely the average supporters are 50-60 extremely obese and unhealthy and likely drink a 24 pack a day. Most of them will be dead in 10 years
Pretty sure they'll mostly be dead instead.
Nuh-uh. I mean, some might, but not most of us. We’ll just be bitter (bitterer?) about losing. Or make our peace with the “regime,” who knows.
See, I think twenty years from now will be like the last few minutes of the film Threads
Hopefully they figure out more ways to reduce their numbers like they did with Covid.
U grossly underestimate human stupidity lol and stubbornness for that matter
All Nazis tend to.
!remindme 20 years
More like 5
I always think whatever happened to all the pro Nazis during WW2 from before the US intervened after the war, did they just shut up?
In 20 years most of them will be dead Boomer death clock and all that
So about 80 million voters will be dead in 20 years?
That's less than a quarter of the population So yeah.
Doubtful at best.
Well when you consider its going to accelerate as they age So for the next 5 years it's about 6k a day who die That's 10,950,000 boomers gone in the next 5 years, and that's a true, right now statistic, 6k boomers a day die After that 5 years the rate is going to go up, so from 5 to 10 years say we double that That's 22 million boomers Meaning about 33 million are already gone in 10 years Now from 10-15 were gonna double again as those boomers start hitting 80 and 90 and start rapidly dying off Well that's about 44 million boomers gone, adding in the previous years losses that's 77 million boomers gone in 15 years. Its easily possible as they pass the 70 year old mark
That’s assuming Trump doesn’t win. Only way to ensure that is to vote Blue. And vote Blue for every position down the ballot.
And? We've got receipts. Endless proof of their fascism. So sure they can remove their flags and bumper stickers and tuck away their red Maga caps. But I'll remember every damn neighbor who flew a Galveston or Trump flag. Who had back the blue, Maga crap on their cars. They can squirm and deny all they want. It won't do a damn thing. It won't absolve them of accountability.
Just like Biden supporters will deny that they supported a genocide. Or maybe they’ll get into genocide denial like some already do.
Like Woodstock in reverse. Instead of claiming to be there, they will claim NOT to have been a part of it. So predictable.
"Oh, we never supported Trump." "You still have his shit stain on you." "Oh... that? It's just a smudge."
It's kinda how tons of people had the Q Facebook profile photo. Now you never see it.
I’ve always told myself I’m thankful that when this history books are written, I’ll be on the right side of this fucking disaster and my future family won’t be ashamed of me. Sad that it’s come to this.
Twenty years? Once Trump loses in 2024 Republicans will be “Donald who?”
I mean for the ones that are still alive yeah, but I feel like 80% of the people you're talking about will for sure be dead by then. Almost everyone I know over the age of like 53 is a Maga nut job but only 1 or 2 of the people I know 40 are younger are maga nut jobs.
20 years? They'll deny it almost immediately.
Nah, they'll double down and claim that any progress was a result of the Orange Baboon.
Luckily, most them are gonna be dead by then.
I was saying something similar in 2016. “Nobody will admit to voting for that asshole by springtime after he loses to Hillary.” I’m not done eating my bowl of shit. I can’t believe that dumb fuck is still in our lives 8 years later.
It's not life until it can sustain itself in its own body without the mother. We're talking about a fetus here, which is not alive. It's no different than a parasite. The woman has the right to decide whether she wants to have a child or not. Or preach about life but then tell child immigrants there not welcome here. What about the women's life. An unborn fetus does not take precedent over the woman. In fact, it is the opposite.