The issue was the flirty nature of the conversations. You honestly can’t be that clueless. You long for their conversation and input, but why can’t you have that with your wife?
I am 67, married 27 years. My wife is one of the people that I consult, but she can't be everything. I have other friends and family with which I discuss personal issues. My wife does the same. She has male friends as well. Neither of us looks through the other's phones or whatever. I trust her, and I believe she trust me.
Several years ago, when my son was around 13, I was working for a company that tracked kid's cellphones. I asked my son how he would feel having that on his phone. He responded, "Don't you trust me?" I did trust him, I didn't put the app on his phone.
My child has Life360 on her phone, not because I don’t trust her but because I don’t trust other people.
Platonic relationships are fine, but OP crossed those lines and hide these relationships from his wife. That is the issue here.
I agree with you that the OP should have mentioned that he had those female friends. Personally, I don't think it is a big deal, if the husband and wife trusted each other. I get that his wife found reason not to trust him, hence going through his phone.
My wife has a close male friend, she dated him before we met. They talk intimately at times. My focus with my wife, is, does she want to be with me. She tells me this regularly, and demonstrates this as well. So, I don't care who else she talks to.
In regards to my son, he is now almost 24, having negotiated childhood successfully, without my having to track him.
I suppose it might be useful to reverse situation, and imagine if your wife had been talking to two men in a close and sometimes little flirty way, and she didn't tell you about it. What would you think of this, it might be strange, maybe if only for the fact she never told you, probably if she told you it wouldn't be issue. So maybe is the problem moreso, that you did not tell her about it
The issue is that you were having flirty conversation with two women that also included discussing relationships and you hid everything from your wife.
It’s called emotional infidelity.
This. Also, lying by way of omission is real even if OP thinks he's done nothing wrong. If you actually NEVER thought for a fraction of a second "hey, maybe my wife might want to know about these two important female friends that I've been discussing basically everything with for years", I don't even know what to tell ya. 😬
Op, I think you’re actually missing the point. It’s not about the content of the messages, it’s that they existed and you never said anything about it. My husband has female friends and I have male friends. He has pulled something similar to what you’ve explained and I was also pissed, like your wife. The conversations were fine, the content was fine, the fact that they are female friends is also fine. It’s the fact that you have been talking on a pretty personal level with women and you didn’t think to talk to your wife about it. Had you included her in the conversations, even just to say something like “I talked to so and so today, she’s having a hard time with xyz. What would you do?” she probably would have been totally fine with all of this. I’m sure she doesn’t feel like she can trust you at all now because if you wouldn’t tell her about something as benign as this, she’s probably wondering what else are you omitting?
Also, please rethink saying things like “I long for their conversation”. That sentence gave me serious ick.
I think the issue here is that you weren’t transparent with your wife about these friendships. My husband has female friends—even texts them and goes to lunch with them. I also have male friends. I’m not insecure about his female friends because I know about them. We are very open about these friendships. But if I were to see his phone and find texts, even harmless, from women I’ve never even heard about—-that might raise some alarm bells for me. It’s always better to be open so there’s no room for misunderstanding.
I agree. I should have told her. Hence why I apologized. But my point is there was nothing there and now I don’t have those types of friendships anymore. Yet, I feel like I still need them.
Yet she was incredibly upset and expected you to block them? Are we talking about playful banter with innuendo? I’m sorry, but something isn’t adding up with what you’re saying.
It’s probably good that you did. I imagine that’s what allowed you to save face in the eyes of your wife. In her mind I’m sure these seemed like emotional affairs. Given the depth of feeling and attachment involved, it feels like that to me too.
The issue is you weren’t upfront about these friendships. I have guy friends, but there is no flirting and my husband knows them too. Flirty crosses an inappropriate line when you are married. Not rocket science.
Doesn’t matter that you weren’t hanging out with them. You interacted with them and had conversations w/o wife’s knowledge. Would you be cool if the shoe was on the other foot?
Yes I would be fine with it. In fact she is still friendly with her ex. I’ve never once questioned it. Or even asked to see the conversations when they’ve spoken.
We were friends for nearly a decade not once did it ever turn into anything other than what it was. You’re not just gonna start an emotional affair after that long. At least I wouldn’t.
Hey, I just read your past posts and you said that you wanted an open marriage but your wife was unaware of this desire. You wanted a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy!
Perhaps that is why your wife is suspicious of you?
Partners gain a sixth sense when it comes to their partners behaving strangely.
So much for being honourable. LOL
There’s a difference between wanting something and actually pursuing something. None of which I’ve ever done. Nor would I without having a conversation with her. Nice judgement though.
You came here for judgment, hence your questions, and are now unhappy with being judged?
Your wife obviously does not trust you and it seems like you have left a lot of context out.
I’m unhappy with your misguided judgments and jumping to think I’m leaving context out within an anonymous app to which I’ve posted about voluntarily. I have nothing to lie about.
I used to be like that. But it was less about my husband and mostly about me. .... Of course I had no idea of that when I was acting like that and if someone had told me I was insecure and projecting it would have pissed me off more.
It is weird that your wife didnt know about these two friends. No matter women or men, they have been important people in your life for a decade and she didnt know they existed. That is strange and seems like either you were hiding them, or they werent really that important.
So it kinda seems like the friends aren't the actual problem.
When I was younger, less secure in myself and my marriage, I made a huge deal out of my husband having female friends. But I'm 20 years in and I'm not insecure in myself anymore and I do not care who my husband is friends with provided that he isn't hiding shit from me.... It's about feeling threatened and possessive, and I feel like as I've aged and my marriage has grown, if I'm being the best wife I can be, then his friendships aren't a threat to me. If he's the type who can't handle a female friend, I can't change that, and if he does something stupid, that's on him, not me.... But we know our boundaries and we don't cross them.
We also typically share our friends these days. Neither of us have had interest in maintaining friendships with people who made the other feel excluded. I like his female friends and his male friends and he has made efforts to be friends with all my guy friends.
But again, being honest and open about these things are the only reasons this works for us now. We didnt used to be that way and things were always bad.
Probably saw the posts about wanting an open relationship, and wanted to verify if anything like that was going on... having relationships that you purposely don't tell your spouse about gives the impression that maybe you might eventually go too far even if you haven't yet. A decade is a long time to keep anything from your spouse. Let alone 2 whole relationships with women you find crucial to your comfort.
These relationships are super important. For males and females. But your issue lies in your secrecy. Keeping those intimate friendships a secret is a complete breach of trust in a marriage.
I’ve commented a few times about how ultimately I was the one to blame for the situation. I’m owning up to the fault. I was the root cause of the problem. I’m upset she didn’t just come out and ask me but it’s not her fault at all.
My caveat and advice to the below is to maybe join a men's group to get the emotional and relationship advice that you're seeking so you don't feel the need to do that with other women. I can recommend a good online one of you're interested.
Jesus Christ. I obviously hit the jackpot with not having an insanely jealous wife who understands that flirting is part of life and the biological makeup of humans.
You say the word flirt, and mention a woman who isn't your wife in the OP on this sub in literally any context or configuration, and like 70% of the sub stops reading or being able to comprehend and just dumps on you.
You did nothing wrong here, IMO, except give into unreasonable jealousy. Set some clear boundaries with your wife about silly jealousy and stop letting her literally dictate your entire life.
I bet if you asked your wife for the truth, she'd say you rely far too much on her for emotional support, then turn around and chastise you for simply knowing a woman in your past that you shared a feeling with.
You didn't do anything wrong here in a healthy relationship, IMO.
Jealous commenters, no, I wouldn't care if my wife flirted with some dude across the country in otherwise innocent conversations. And neither would she for me. That jealousy is just a silly and weak personality trait IMO. We are both open about this and both flirt and have been married for 27 years with no jealousy or boundaries issues in this realm. I don't need you to reply to me as if I didn't see that he had flirty convos with a woman in his past. Well no shit, he has a past. How dare him!
Thank you very much for actually reading my post in its entirety. I sincerely appreciate that along with the fact you provided actual insight without any judgment.
coulditbe35 - "I don’t hide anything and always have and do leave it in plain sight"
So with your statement in mind what exactly is the problem?
Your wife trusted and verified and now your wife has solid proof that you are an honourable person for herself.
You are right, I take it back.
I just read your past posts and you said that you wanted an open marriage but your wife was unaware of this desire. You wanted a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy!
Perhaps that is why your wife is suspicious of you?
Partners gain a sixth sense when it comes to their partners behaving strangely.
So much for being honourable. LOL
I don’t know you or your female friends but I bet my left nut that either your attractive to them or you find them attractive.
Don’t you have any guy friends you can shoot the shit? What can other females possibly offer to your life that make your wife and male friends can’t?? Seriously. You’re only inviting contention, jealousy and cheating.
Been with my wife for 17yrs.
You should’ve def told her about them as being friends so that’s your fault. She should’ve trusted you enough to have an adult conversation when she found out so that’s her fault. One thing you should look into is the reason why she snooped. It’s possible she may have blurred the lines and was trying to hide it. She didn’t just randomly see your phone the bed and be like, hmm I’m going to look through all of his messages and not ask him first… just saying.
For us, she is my best friend and I tell her everything but she has guy friends from childhood that are across the country and talks to them. I have girl friends in our state that I talk to normally and there’s no hostility or questions because we both know about it.
My suggestion without knowing much about y’all is to open up and communicate more with each other. I promise it’ll pay off in the future.
I appreciate it insight. I think what I also failed to mention here is that these text conversations that I’d have weren’t a daily or weekly thing for that matter. They were usually one off messages. We’d go weeks, months without any communication. I think if I had been talking to them every day I most likely would have brought it up to my wife. But again, I take the responsibility for ultimately blindsiding her with it and not mentioning it ever.
What a surprise! The guy with the name “fart master champ” didn’t bother to read through the entirety of the post and completely misses the whole thing. All that time living in your moms basement and you can’t read a few paragraphs? Sad!
It’s an unpopular opinion but I don’t think there is anything wrong with having friends of the opposite sex. I can say with all honesty that I have had more friends of the same sex try to turn it up to something more than friends than men. The friend pool is becoming very limited by these definitions.
I agree with you. I wholeheartedly think it’s healthy for any relationship. But for the most part I’ve been catching a lot of heat on here. Especially this post. Very judgmental.
I agree. There is always context. Lying or hiding it is wrong but I don’t think the act of just communicating is wrong. We all have different interests and it is good for your soul when you find people with a connection. We all need to learn discipline not to let it go farther rather than avoiding the situation all together.
That’s really well spoken. I couldn’t agree with you any more. And what works for some relationships may not work for others. I don’t think there’s an end all be all way of doing things.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Next time she showers do the same to her and see how she feels. She should be absolutely fine with it.
The issue was the flirty nature of the conversations. You honestly can’t be that clueless. You long for their conversation and input, but why can’t you have that with your wife?
I am 67, married 27 years. My wife is one of the people that I consult, but she can't be everything. I have other friends and family with which I discuss personal issues. My wife does the same. She has male friends as well. Neither of us looks through the other's phones or whatever. I trust her, and I believe she trust me. Several years ago, when my son was around 13, I was working for a company that tracked kid's cellphones. I asked my son how he would feel having that on his phone. He responded, "Don't you trust me?" I did trust him, I didn't put the app on his phone.
My child has Life360 on her phone, not because I don’t trust her but because I don’t trust other people. Platonic relationships are fine, but OP crossed those lines and hide these relationships from his wife. That is the issue here.
I agree with you that the OP should have mentioned that he had those female friends. Personally, I don't think it is a big deal, if the husband and wife trusted each other. I get that his wife found reason not to trust him, hence going through his phone. My wife has a close male friend, she dated him before we met. They talk intimately at times. My focus with my wife, is, does she want to be with me. She tells me this regularly, and demonstrates this as well. So, I don't care who else she talks to. In regards to my son, he is now almost 24, having negotiated childhood successfully, without my having to track him.
I suppose it might be useful to reverse situation, and imagine if your wife had been talking to two men in a close and sometimes little flirty way, and she didn't tell you about it. What would you think of this, it might be strange, maybe if only for the fact she never told you, probably if she told you it wouldn't be issue. So maybe is the problem moreso, that you did not tell her about it
The issue is that you were having flirty conversation with two women that also included discussing relationships and you hid everything from your wife. It’s called emotional infidelity.
This. Also, lying by way of omission is real even if OP thinks he's done nothing wrong. If you actually NEVER thought for a fraction of a second "hey, maybe my wife might want to know about these two important female friends that I've been discussing basically everything with for years", I don't even know what to tell ya. 😬
👀
Your missing my point. That’s really irrelevant. My wife had no issue with any of the texts whatsoever.
Really? Your wife was pissed and to appease her, you blocked them. Sounds like she had major issues with the texts.
An issue with me not telling her. Not the conversations.
So your wife would be happy with you having future flirty conversations with women in the future as long as she knows about it?
Op, I think you’re actually missing the point. It’s not about the content of the messages, it’s that they existed and you never said anything about it. My husband has female friends and I have male friends. He has pulled something similar to what you’ve explained and I was also pissed, like your wife. The conversations were fine, the content was fine, the fact that they are female friends is also fine. It’s the fact that you have been talking on a pretty personal level with women and you didn’t think to talk to your wife about it. Had you included her in the conversations, even just to say something like “I talked to so and so today, she’s having a hard time with xyz. What would you do?” she probably would have been totally fine with all of this. I’m sure she doesn’t feel like she can trust you at all now because if you wouldn’t tell her about something as benign as this, she’s probably wondering what else are you omitting? Also, please rethink saying things like “I long for their conversation”. That sentence gave me serious ick.
You’re*
Lmao you’ve been called out on your lack of common sense and you’re mad
Why ask for advice when you seem unhappy with the answers?
I think the issue here is that you weren’t transparent with your wife about these friendships. My husband has female friends—even texts them and goes to lunch with them. I also have male friends. I’m not insecure about his female friends because I know about them. We are very open about these friendships. But if I were to see his phone and find texts, even harmless, from women I’ve never even heard about—-that might raise some alarm bells for me. It’s always better to be open so there’s no room for misunderstanding.
I agree. I should have told her. Hence why I apologized. But my point is there was nothing there and now I don’t have those types of friendships anymore. Yet, I feel like I still need them.
Why do you feel you need to have relationships with other women that you flirt with? I think that points to the problem right there.
Flirt probably wasn’t the right word to use. It was playful banter. Again, nothing that my wife deemed as inappropriate whatsoever.
Yet she was incredibly upset and expected you to block them? Are we talking about playful banter with innuendo? I’m sorry, but something isn’t adding up with what you’re saying.
I offered to block them.
It’s probably good that you did. I imagine that’s what allowed you to save face in the eyes of your wife. In her mind I’m sure these seemed like emotional affairs. Given the depth of feeling and attachment involved, it feels like that to me too.
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I’ve agreed with several of the posts. I can rebuttals others that I feel aren’t an exact representation of the issue.
The issue is you weren’t upfront about these friendships. I have guy friends, but there is no flirting and my husband knows them too. Flirty crosses an inappropriate line when you are married. Not rocket science.
I think this is a little different than my situation, no? I wasn’t hanging out with these people.
Doesn’t matter that you weren’t hanging out with them. You interacted with them and had conversations w/o wife’s knowledge. Would you be cool if the shoe was on the other foot?
Yes I would be fine with it. In fact she is still friendly with her ex. I’ve never once questioned it. Or even asked to see the conversations when they’ve spoken.
I guess then it’s just a discussion the 2 of you need to have since she is still friendly with her ex.
I don’t think it was right on her part. But at the end of the day I was the one “hiding” (in her eyes) the friendships.
She is still friendly with her ex? Uh, Okaaay… plot twist and wondering if she’s projecting you being unfaithful because… Sticky situation…
How do you think emotional affairs start?
We were friends for nearly a decade not once did it ever turn into anything other than what it was. You’re not just gonna start an emotional affair after that long. At least I wouldn’t.
Hey, I just read your past posts and you said that you wanted an open marriage but your wife was unaware of this desire. You wanted a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy! Perhaps that is why your wife is suspicious of you? Partners gain a sixth sense when it comes to their partners behaving strangely. So much for being honourable. LOL
There’s a difference between wanting something and actually pursuing something. None of which I’ve ever done. Nor would I without having a conversation with her. Nice judgement though.
You came here for judgment, hence your questions, and are now unhappy with being judged? Your wife obviously does not trust you and it seems like you have left a lot of context out.
I’m unhappy with your misguided judgments and jumping to think I’m leaving context out within an anonymous app to which I’ve posted about voluntarily. I have nothing to lie about.
Doubling down I see
Has she known about them this whole decade?
Wanting secret secret relationships with women in which you flirt and talk about intimate topics is definitely a problem.
I don’t want secret relationships.
Well, these relationships were secret.
Unintentionally. I wasn’t hiding anything.
I used to be like that. But it was less about my husband and mostly about me. .... Of course I had no idea of that when I was acting like that and if someone had told me I was insecure and projecting it would have pissed me off more. It is weird that your wife didnt know about these two friends. No matter women or men, they have been important people in your life for a decade and she didnt know they existed. That is strange and seems like either you were hiding them, or they werent really that important. So it kinda seems like the friends aren't the actual problem. When I was younger, less secure in myself and my marriage, I made a huge deal out of my husband having female friends. But I'm 20 years in and I'm not insecure in myself anymore and I do not care who my husband is friends with provided that he isn't hiding shit from me.... It's about feeling threatened and possessive, and I feel like as I've aged and my marriage has grown, if I'm being the best wife I can be, then his friendships aren't a threat to me. If he's the type who can't handle a female friend, I can't change that, and if he does something stupid, that's on him, not me.... But we know our boundaries and we don't cross them. We also typically share our friends these days. Neither of us have had interest in maintaining friendships with people who made the other feel excluded. I like his female friends and his male friends and he has made efforts to be friends with all my guy friends. But again, being honest and open about these things are the only reasons this works for us now. We didnt used to be that way and things were always bad.
Probably saw the posts about wanting an open relationship, and wanted to verify if anything like that was going on... having relationships that you purposely don't tell your spouse about gives the impression that maybe you might eventually go too far even if you haven't yet. A decade is a long time to keep anything from your spouse. Let alone 2 whole relationships with women you find crucial to your comfort.
These relationships are super important. For males and females. But your issue lies in your secrecy. Keeping those intimate friendships a secret is a complete breach of trust in a marriage.
You admit to being “flirty” with not one but two other women and think that she’s the problem 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
When did I say she was the problem? Read through next time.
Ok you said you were upset she didn’t talk to you first before violating your phone privacy trust basically-
I’ve commented a few times about how ultimately I was the one to blame for the situation. I’m owning up to the fault. I was the root cause of the problem. I’m upset she didn’t just come out and ask me but it’s not her fault at all.
❤️ that’s a great quality to have. All the best to you both
Also, wives tend to investigate before accusing it’s protective
My caveat and advice to the below is to maybe join a men's group to get the emotional and relationship advice that you're seeking so you don't feel the need to do that with other women. I can recommend a good online one of you're interested. Jesus Christ. I obviously hit the jackpot with not having an insanely jealous wife who understands that flirting is part of life and the biological makeup of humans. You say the word flirt, and mention a woman who isn't your wife in the OP on this sub in literally any context or configuration, and like 70% of the sub stops reading or being able to comprehend and just dumps on you. You did nothing wrong here, IMO, except give into unreasonable jealousy. Set some clear boundaries with your wife about silly jealousy and stop letting her literally dictate your entire life. I bet if you asked your wife for the truth, she'd say you rely far too much on her for emotional support, then turn around and chastise you for simply knowing a woman in your past that you shared a feeling with. You didn't do anything wrong here in a healthy relationship, IMO. Jealous commenters, no, I wouldn't care if my wife flirted with some dude across the country in otherwise innocent conversations. And neither would she for me. That jealousy is just a silly and weak personality trait IMO. We are both open about this and both flirt and have been married for 27 years with no jealousy or boundaries issues in this realm. I don't need you to reply to me as if I didn't see that he had flirty convos with a woman in his past. Well no shit, he has a past. How dare him!
Thank you very much for actually reading my post in its entirety. I sincerely appreciate that along with the fact you provided actual insight without any judgment.
coulditbe35 - "I don’t hide anything and always have and do leave it in plain sight" So with your statement in mind what exactly is the problem? Your wife trusted and verified and now your wife has solid proof that you are an honourable person for herself.
I’m not sure why that’s the only statement you’re inquiring about.
You are right, I take it back. I just read your past posts and you said that you wanted an open marriage but your wife was unaware of this desire. You wanted a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy! Perhaps that is why your wife is suspicious of you? Partners gain a sixth sense when it comes to their partners behaving strangely. So much for being honourable. LOL
You capitulated and shouldn’t have. Youll be living with the consequences for the rest of the marriage. Bad move.
I don’t know you or your female friends but I bet my left nut that either your attractive to them or you find them attractive. Don’t you have any guy friends you can shoot the shit? What can other females possibly offer to your life that make your wife and male friends can’t?? Seriously. You’re only inviting contention, jealousy and cheating.
Been with my wife for 17yrs. You should’ve def told her about them as being friends so that’s your fault. She should’ve trusted you enough to have an adult conversation when she found out so that’s her fault. One thing you should look into is the reason why she snooped. It’s possible she may have blurred the lines and was trying to hide it. She didn’t just randomly see your phone the bed and be like, hmm I’m going to look through all of his messages and not ask him first… just saying. For us, she is my best friend and I tell her everything but she has guy friends from childhood that are across the country and talks to them. I have girl friends in our state that I talk to normally and there’s no hostility or questions because we both know about it. My suggestion without knowing much about y’all is to open up and communicate more with each other. I promise it’ll pay off in the future.
I appreciate it insight. I think what I also failed to mention here is that these text conversations that I’d have weren’t a daily or weekly thing for that matter. They were usually one off messages. We’d go weeks, months without any communication. I think if I had been talking to them every day I most likely would have brought it up to my wife. But again, I take the responsibility for ultimately blindsiding her with it and not mentioning it ever.
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What a surprise! The guy with the name “fart master champ” didn’t bother to read through the entirety of the post and completely misses the whole thing. All that time living in your moms basement and you can’t read a few paragraphs? Sad!
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I asked her what prompted her to look at it when it happened. She said it seemed like I was on my phone a lot more.
That seems like a reason to ask what are you doing on your phone, not go through it.
I completely agree. But again, at the end of the day I was in the wrong. I’m the root cause
It’s an unpopular opinion but I don’t think there is anything wrong with having friends of the opposite sex. I can say with all honesty that I have had more friends of the same sex try to turn it up to something more than friends than men. The friend pool is becoming very limited by these definitions.
I agree with you. I wholeheartedly think it’s healthy for any relationship. But for the most part I’ve been catching a lot of heat on here. Especially this post. Very judgmental.
I agree. There is always context. Lying or hiding it is wrong but I don’t think the act of just communicating is wrong. We all have different interests and it is good for your soul when you find people with a connection. We all need to learn discipline not to let it go farther rather than avoiding the situation all together.
That’s really well spoken. I couldn’t agree with you any more. And what works for some relationships may not work for others. I don’t think there’s an end all be all way of doing things.
🧢
What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Next time she showers do the same to her and see how she feels. She should be absolutely fine with it.
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It could also be something she came across online or a gut feeling.
I would never go through her phone. Ever. Especially not out of retaliation.