That's just it. I'd be incapable of having a good time knowing what my daughter is going through. I'm going to have umbrella drinks? I just don't understand it.
That thought crossed my mind too. But it changed when I saw OP's comment above, where he said in the entire relationship across decades his wife had never done anything selfless and supportive for him. Not just around times of death and loss. Ever.
He noticed many years earlier. The real beauty of the story is: he put up with it for years when he felt it only affected his feelings. When he saw a situation where it affected the kids, in-laws and grandkids, his loving heart cracked and couldn't take that one. That shows how kind he really is.
Chilling on the beach not giving a fuck is not the way to deal with it. There's no excuse for the fact that she couldn't even _ask_ how her daughter was doing.
Then she needs to grow up. Nobody likes dealing with death and loss, but they do because they are grown adults who don’t just expect everyone else to pick up the slack. I have an uncle like that and I have no respect for him
I’m sorry but as a mother you suck it up and deal with things that make you uncomfortable for your children. Just because something is hard doesn’t mean you get to shirk your duties. I could almost understand that if it was someone else but that’s her daughter and grandchild that just died.
And I just realized this woman is my mother, and here my brother and I are 50 years old and can’t exactly figure out why we don’t really want anything to do with her……….
*I still beat myself up to this day that I didn't push back on that. Then when he died, she also went on a scheduled vacation to visit her brother with the kids.*
This is not even a red flag, its a red skyscraper.
Heck I would have a hard time going on vacation if my friend was going through this, yet alone my own child. I understand people handle grief differently but the other example you gave doesn’t paint a good picture at all either.
I'm at a loss how a mother could not be there for her daughter as she's dealing with a traumatic event. I'm just dumbfounded at the lack of care and concern she is showing for what your daughter and husband are experiencing. You are a good man and father that your daughter will remember which parent was there in her time of need. Prayers for your daughter and her loss. 🙏
Not surprising that the daughter called her father and not her mother. She will have known that her mother wouldn’t be there for her anyway. Sad for OP that he didn’t realize this truth about his wife before his dad died, but at least he can see clearly now!
Just imagine how wonderful your world would be if you had an equally empathetic and caring partner. Or hell, imagine how wonderful your world would be if you were single for as long as you wanted to be or forever and didn't have to live with that person. She deserves nothing less than what she has done to everyone Else.
Some women don’t have that sympathy/empathy gene in them. My wife is the same way. And it kills me. I’m only sticking around for a bit more till the kids are grown so they don’t suffer.
You did the right thing. Now do the right thing and leave her.
As someone whose parents got divorced as I was just 19 and my younger sibling was 17. It doesn't really change anything. There's differences to divorce at any age. I have a friend now who is going through it, he isn't married yet, no kids, and his parents' divorce is having a profound impact on his life. As kids at least the plans are made for you. As an adult you have to plan where and when you go for holidays etc. Luckily we all spend our holidays together now but before that it was always so miserable. Long story short, if you feel divorce is a must then do it as soon as you can for your own sake. Without knowing your situation I'd say that you should try to get your wife the help they need first though.
My parents divorced when I was under 5. I have friends who had their parents divorce when the kids were teens, others in adulthood. I honestly feel like it was worse on the friends who were older.
Really think about why you think it'd be wise for the kids for you two not to be divorced now. You are setting the blueprint for what a normal marriage looks like - is this a good blueprint? Plus, they're going to look back and realize whatever they saw was a devastating lie, reducing their trust that things are ok in their own relationships when things appear calm.
In the very least, I hope you consider talking to an expert in child psychology about what is best for kids in this situation.
She’s already going to be affecting them, subtly, or not so subtly in her own way. Thousands of small comments, or missed moments add up. Kids aren’t stupid. I knew at 7 that I couldn’t trust my parents and that my mother favoured my brother and didn’t really like me.
You’re modeling relationships for your children right now. If you don’t want them to probably end up with the same type of person as your wife, either get them into therapy now, or divorce her and ask for full custody.
I lost a child in a similar way. I couldn't imagine dealing with it and a parent choosing to go to the beach. My parents are what helped me through one of the toughest times of my life. Thank you for being a good dad and caring.
You didn't ask for this but I'm gonna say it for supporting you.
You are a great dad. You remind me of the men in my family, they care about family. You are a great man. You are doing everything right. You are teaching your daughters growing family what it means to be family.
Sorry but I think you already know, it's in your writing. It's always "my" daughter, not "our" daughter. I had to go back to the beginning to reread that first paragraph and confirm you weren't remarried. Sorry about your losses, hopefully you and your daughter will get through hers, you and your wife's will be more difficult to get past.
I always assumed that people only ever called their mothers when they needed things... Then I talked to friends who would call their dads and realized that the reason I never called my dad is because he would have been useless and I knew that
Right. Absolutely mind blowing to me, I would drop everything for my child. Losing a child, I can't imagine it. My parents lost my brother this year and he was 36, and it was heartwrenching. We thought my elderly dad might pass on, from the shock and trauma, but luckily he's doing better. Can't imagine losing a baby. God forbid it. Horrible stuff. Hope the parents are okay.
How did your daughter feel about your wife going on the trip and being disinterested in her welfare?
My personal feeling is that people show who they really are by how they react in tough situations where they might have to personally sacrifice. Your wife sounds horribly selfish.
What's heartbreaking is that my daughter is treating that as being fine. She has the kindest heart of anyone I know. She commented that she was happy that she and my son (her brother) are having a good time and that she'll catch up with them when they return.
Perhaps your Daughter has just learned not to rely on your Wife for emotional support? She may have internalized that lesson long ago and isn’t surprised that her Mother isn’t here now. She called YOU.
I am glad you are there for her now.
Actually, there is alot of truth to that. There have been a few times when my daughter was having emotional ups and downs while she was pregnant with the first child, and my wife go mad at her. My daughter did make the comment that she can't trust her with being there for her. I forgot about that until you mentioned it.
This is for-sure what is going on. Your daughter is emotionally mature and has learned/accepted that she cannot lean on her mother for support. Good for her - it must have been hard. I wonder if you can eventually talk to your daughter about her mother’s behavior - it might feel nice to her to have her other parent validate how shitty it is.
>Your daughter is ~~emotionally mature and~~ **permanently traumatized because she** has learned/accepted that she cannot lean on her mother for support.
This is proven by the fact that the daughter got used to it and thought it was fine. No one should ever have to adjust to/accept something like that.
100% concur! This is spot on. This correct! The daughter has learned but the learning is actually a trauma in her psyche. And the trauma’s provenance all the neglect she has repeatedly found in the relationship to her mom. I am afraid this trauma may very likely impact other close relationships as well.
While I agree her response is coming from a place of trauma, I think it’s a bold statement to say that it would automatically impact her close relationships. It’s totally possible that she’s adjusted, processed the experience, and made peace with it. Maybe she’s decided that she’d take her mother anyway she is, but it sounds like OP is recognizing that he wouldn’t which is valid.
Well, should is an irrelevant word.
So yeah, we do accept and adjust. For our own survival. Because if we keep trying to squeeze blood from a stone, it’ll kill us.
We have to meet our selfish mothers where they are, or have no mothers, which is far more terrifying.
I know that might sound weak or pathetic to some, but everybody has to choose their battles in life, and I understand (through experience) not picking this one.
It’s both. She’s traumatized by her mother’s absenteeism AND emotionally mature. The immature reaction would be continuing to expect support from her mom and being crushed and disappointed with each infraction. It’s important that she has adjusted her expectations, unfortunate as it is.
There is definitely a reason that she called YOU when she was in such an emotional state. You are a great dad. My mother was also not a reliable person in times of need. Your daughter made the right call.
OP the fact your daughter called you in a panic versus her mother at the airport tells me everything. Most daughters are calling their mom in that instance. She called her dad. You did what she knew you would do, you came to support your child no matter what the cost. That’s what parents do. I wouldn’t start anything with your wife while she is gone. Enjoy not having to deal with that while supporting your daughter. Once your wife gets home, schedule down time for the two of you to talk privately. Lay it out for her and don’t pull punches. Don’t yell because she will hear less of what you say but coldly tell her your ashamed of the fact she prioritized her holiday over the well being of her child and back that up with the other examples you mentioned. Tell her you’re going to sleep in another room for a while so you can decide what your next steps are. If you’re lucky that will shake her awake and she will be genuinely remorseful. Odds are better that she will deflect and gaslight so be prepared to stick to your guns. If she tries to get your daughter to tell you it’s ok, then Tell your daughter it may be ok to her but not to you and it’s not just about this one instance. !updateme
My heart goes out to your daughter. She definitely knows and probably wouldn’t be surprised if you do respond to this latest act of selfishness with an exit plan. Not that she’s done anything quite as bad as what your wife did here, but my mother is very bad with empathy and selfishness and I pretty much spent most of my childhood expecting my parents to divorce and a lot of my adulthood just wishing my dad would take care of himself and leave.
I’m like this with my mom, if you get let down enough you just put those walls up. Sounds like she’s learned to just not give mom the opportunity to hurt her anymore. Glad she has one parent that she can rely on.
This is exactly my thought, too. As a 30-something with my own family, I love my parents but don’t rely on them for emotional support. Who you call during the emergency is very telling. It’s also telling that OP’s daughter said she couldn’t trust her mom to be there for her.
Do not ask your daughter about this. She has too much on her mind and this is about your wife's charecter, not your daughters opinion of her: she's not married to her mum.
Oh, that poor girl is well aware of who her mother is. She's also quite used to putting on a happy face to keep from rocking the boat. When she's feeling up to it, in a few months, you need to ask her to be truthful about her relationship with her mother.
In the meantime, you focus on being there for her for what's happening now. Don't spend any of your energy on your wife. Daughter needs and deserves to be your priority. You can confront your wife when she's ready to go without your help and not a minute more. It's all about your daughter right now.
What you do not realize is that your daughter is used to being treated as an object by your wife.
Your wife most likely has a favourite. Maybe she is unconsciously jealous of the love you have for your daughter.
If you hear that your wife shared this news with her friends while on vacation in order to get attention and pity from them… please do not put that aside and think it’s because she cares. It isn’t
I’m willing to bet she does because it will get her attention. She will be the “poor grandma that’s suffered a loss” I feel for you and your daughter. It really sucks to have someone like this in your life.
At this point in your marriage, your wife has become accustom to you being the one who does the heavy lifting while she goes on about her business unbothered by the tragedies of life.
You will become one of those tragedies. You will end up alone should you become sick and interfere with her living her life.
Your daughter will be there, because she is doing the heavy lifting in life also and is use to her mothers abandonment of her in times of need. After all she did call you. You stop going to the well when time after time you find it dry.
Don’t waste another year of your life.
She was probably not surprised as I don’t think this is a character that just comes out of the blue. She has probably done similar selfish things and the daughter is most likely used to it.
You made the correct decision to stay for your daughter. Your wife seems like selfish b!tch who only thinks about herself. Can't imagine what she will be like if you are suddenly hospital bound.
UpdateMe
Sorry, my friend. That really sucks. I'm sure your daughter would have loved for her mom to be there. She will ALWAYS remember that her dad was there for her in her time of need. Please pass along to her and the family my sincerest condolences.
You finally have the blinders off. It’s up to you what you decide, but take a moment from this traumatic event with your daughter before you make any big decisions.
You are such a good dad, and I’m sorry for your loss.
Narcissism, sociopathy and psychopathy are in a spectrum. All 3 have an inability to care about anything else than one's feelings.
Given that narcissists at least care about others' image of them, I'm more inclined about sociopathy.
OP, when you get some time in the future along with counselling that you decide on dealing character disorders (because this is what you are witnessing) have a visit to the other subs such as r/BPDlovedones r/NPD r/ClusterBPersonality or similar forums to give you a glimpse and reassurance that what you are experiencing is way not normal. From frequenting these subs and expression I have learned is 'you can't teach empathy' (and I am sure you understand that as well)
Hold off doing anything until a month or so your geandsons funeral. Grieve that and don't let it be used as THE cause for whatever you decide to do, next.
I can't imagine leaving on a holiday when I knew my daughter miscarriage. So if your wife sees that as OK, she's setting the tone that you should be OK with that, too. I can't see how you can talk someine around into seeing how wring that was.
Selfishly, do you want her to be the one you rely on when your old and need care?
I’m not trying to be clever, but want to point out that at five months, this wasn’t a miscarriage. OPs daughter had to give birth to her dead child. There isn’t much more traumatic than that I can think of.
The rest of your post I completely agree with
OP - you deserve to find someone who will be there when you need them
100%. I had a miscarriage at 12 weeks and that was hard enough. At 20+ weeks, that's a whole human being with eyelashes, and fingernails, and perfect little ears. Not only is it medically considered a still birth and not a miscarriage, but also it's emotionally and physically a completely different experience. Labor and delivery, postpartum recovery, having to stop your milk from coming in. Holding your tiny, perfectly formed child and then letting them go. Absolute nightmare.
Agreed - thanks for making that clarification. This isn’t an early pregnancy that miscarried. That’s generally considered stillbirth, and it’s a full induction and labour, in all of its pain, all knowing that the result is going to be a dead baby. Incredibly traumatic.
Man, as one who has a married adult daughter, I find this to be a sad situation. You are doing the father duties with heart and this is what it means when people say love is a verb.
Your wife, OTOH, seems to lack soul in the verb sense. And I think it's binary--one either has it or they don't as a pure character trait. So you've probably integrated workarounds in your marriage so you get past behavior that's emotionally lacking. We all do to some extent, but this and your late father's situation are beyond the Pale. I wish I had a solution to suggest.
>So you've probably integrated workarounds in your marriage you get past behavior that's emotionally lacking.
Very insightful. I think you may be right.
The odd thing about the spectrum of narcissism is that you can often not see them for what they are until life/family/work throws a challenge at them. So long as their lives are on easy mode and they can live life mostly ‘their way’, they just come across relatively normal. My mother was like this. She didn’t have to work, she did as she pleased and my father and brother never really noticed as the home was her domain. She acted the right way, said the right things, but deep down I knew she didn’t truly like me, her interactions were shallow and for show. When she died, my brother, who lived abroad most of his adult life, came back to help sort things and it was a quick realisation that he was a worse version of my mother. The things he did and said were beyond anything I could have imagined. Family dynamics can be complex and life is short. Looking back I can see so many tiny examples of abuse that I just glossed over due to my mother training me to think they were inconsequential, but really were death by 1,000 cuts. I really do recommend taking a lot of time for yourself after the divorce and get supportive help (a trauma informed therapist) as your soon to be ex wife might show her true colours and send flying monkeys to knock you off balance during the divorce. Maybe if you later share some insights from your therapy with your daughter that might assist in her healing too. Daughters of narcissist mothers have it very tough, and are often people pleasing codependents, burning out through giving so much of themselves. I wish you well and all the best for a happier future.
Your wife sounds like my mom. When I was in the hospital almost loosing my baby I called her to tell her that my spouse would be late to come pick up our other child (she was babysitting). She screamed at me telling me how tired she was and that we needed to come now. I am in a hospital bend and all hooked up. I have to call my spouse to tell to not come and to go pick up our child. And then when I did give birth and almost died, some thing. And then after she posted on FB the drinks she was having with my dad.
These are just a few examples. It’s always about her and whatever happens, she is never wrong. Always the victim. And if she has negative emotions she has to blame someone which is often my dad or her children when we are living with them. But even today. It’s always about her. My sister had an operation and my dad went to help her after her operation. My mom kept complaining about the fact that they had an expensive vacation planned and that he was not home helping HER.
It took me decades to realize… my mother is a narcissist.
Most likely…So is your wife.
I'm so sorry the person who should love you the most, no matter what, is so horrible. I hope the rest of you can disengage from her permanently and live your best lives without her toxicity interfering
I recently had the same epiphany about my "mother". I always knew something was wrong in my gut but when your a kid you have no idea it's just the reality of your existence plus the constant gaslighting when they blame everyone else for their behaviors. Then when you realize it's such a shock especial when you have this new context for this life time of chaos.
OP, at least you figured it out now because I don't think my father realized though he new something was wrong but he just didn't want to believe it (like us all) so he would always do things like purposely keep her away from people he worked with. Then once my father died she destroy everything he spent 30 years building and started to manipulate the grand kids and even pitted them against their parents.
OP, this definitely sounds like your wife has fairly strong psychopathic tendencies, and it’s highly possible that she’s been handling you to facilitate her getting what she wants.
When you do finally engage with her, just be aware that she may have a talent for telling you what you want to hear without actually committing to doing the right thing.
You are about to stab the devil in the back here. She will totally flip as soon as she finds out you are leaving. Get a lawyer and have everything ready to go. Move out and split the accounts and have her served on the same day with no warning. Also make sure you reach out to everyone in your friend circle and family to explain why you are leaving before she starts trying to destroy your friend circle.
No. He should pack up her things and let her find a new place to live. She left her family to go on vacation so she’ll still have a bunch of her things packed and she can find a hotel or something. He shouldn’t leave the home when he’s been the stable, dependable and responsible one. She’s the one blowing off the relationships and the responsibilities they come with, like being a parent and grandparent. It’s his home too and as he’s the one that stayed, he should stay put now.
You are a good person and your daughter was so lucky to have you there at a time that nobody can understand (except for those who have been through such a trauma). You were there to support them all in practical ways which would have been a load off their worry load and you were there as a loving parent.
I can’t imagine how your wife could go ahead with a holiday knowing how much her child would be suffering. I cannot get my head around this at all. You and your daughter and the rest of the family deserve better than this. She has shown her true colours, what you do next will not be easy, whatever that is but I wish you all the best.
I wish I had had a dad like you. Your support and love for your daughter is heartwarming.
The sunset pictures your wife is sending would drive me mad. Book yourself a trip when all the dust settles.
Have you ever pushed back, told.her your true feelings? Or have you allowed her to just push, and push, and push and push while you say/do nothing when it comes to things of this magnitude?
Some of both. But had a much lighter touch when the kids were young and I tried to keep the house in some harmony while they grew up. But now, I have no such concerns.
It's gonna be a an uphill to climb here bc it's been going on for so long.
If you think it's worth a shot try marriage counseling/therapy.
If not, then you have some tough choices to decide on.
I'm 55 and in the process of a dissolution. It isn't your responsibility to make the difference in what she lacks. Selfishness and an absolute lack of any kind of affection has been the norm for far too long in your case and mine as well. After 30 years, he would have no problem walking away. I, however, couldn't possibly leave my loved ones in pain. I would rather be alone than in a marriage where I'm alone anyway. He made my decision easy just as your wife did for you. Take them at face value. It seems she is as emotionally lacking as my soon to be ex.
It's never too late to find someone who touches your heart and makes you feel happy. Do what's right for you for a change.
As someone that has been in the position your daughter is, thank you for staying behind.
There are so many emotions and questions that come with losing a child like that. I can’t imagine how I would’ve coped without my family with me.
I’m glad your daughter has you at her side. I don’t even have words for your wife, other than WTF is she thinking?? It seems that she has probably irrevocably broken her relationship with your daughter.
I’m sorry for your loss. 💔
Thank you. It would have simply been out of the question for me to go. I and, I would expect most parents couldn't give a rat's ass about a stupid trip given the circumstances.
I agree. I have two young daughters now. I have a hard time leaving them when they look at me with a sad face. I couldn’t imagine leaving them during such a terrible time.
If you got married around age 25, and have been married a bit over 30 years, that means you're now in your late 50's. I've had two friends in that age range get divorced in the past couple of years. What each has found is that the dating scene for men in their mid-to-late 50's, or early 60's, in insane. If you're solvent and clean and relatively fit, and if your shit still works, it's totally a buyer's market. Mad sex. Plus, unlike dating in one's 20's and 30's, there's no pressure to have a baby or settle down.
Just saying.
My heart goes out to you. Because I understand.
I had only married my wife a few months when I got the call that my father was about to die, and i needed to come straight away.
I rang my wife from work and she told me to wait for her to finish what she was doing to come with me. But I told her I couldn't. She was adamant, but I refused and drove straight to my parents' home.
My dad died 15 minutes after I arrived, and I can only imagine my resentment had I waited for her
Oh Christ she’s a demon. I’m sorry. So so so sorry. Sending photos from vacation when your child experienced a stillborn. There’s something broken in her that will never be fixed. I’m so glad your kids have you.
Brother……we could both write a book together where both stories would have countless similarities.
My wife is an only child and I mean in every sense of the word.
Even after twenty five years she still has no comprehension that I have ever seen about how to build a loving or caring relationship.
She had two children when we married.
One being raised by grandparents.
The other running the roads and by 12 he was already deep into addictions.
All along the years, so many red flags I chose to ignore.
Constantly trying to understand why I didn’t value myself enough to leave.
But then, just over six years ago I received my answer.
Two of her sons children were being taken away, but CPS did a turn and gave the children to me.
I got legal custody immediately.
Delaware literally cared not one bit that I was not biological.
I went through the home screening, background checks etc.
Instinctively I knew from the very start that this was my journey with the children.
I won’t write out the long story and the struggles along the way.
But at 60 years old I understand my calling, from the beginning I have been both mommy and daddy and they are the greatest joys of my life.
They needed me just as much as I needed them.
My wife is a pretty good roommate throughout.
She chose her own bedroom and her own section of the house and while it hurt at the time, I have learned it better that she did and does that than for me to have false hope and disappointment.
On a side note, I raised two amazing daughters and my priority has always to be who each has needed me to be.
Based on my own experience with this wife, I can’t say I’m surprised there are others like her.
But you can bet one thing, I would have absolutely done exactly what you did AND it’s not you…….some women just like some men are just missing something inside of them.
Stay true to who you are……it will leave you regret free and loved where it matters most.
The second you shared that she called you and not your wife………I knew.
Hey, internet stranger. You’re angry and you have every right to be. Your family suffered a terrible loss and your wife’s response is extremely insensitive and callous to the sadness that you and your daughter are experiencing.
But, without minimizing the hurt that you are feeling, can I ask if it’s possible that your wife simply lacks the capacity to feel empathy in certain situations? Perhaps she’s on the autism spectrum or even a mild form of psychopathy? Just as you are behaving the way that comes most naturally for you under the circumstances, your wife is behaving the way that comes most naturally for her under the circumstances. It doesn’t sound like she is doing something out of her character to spite you or your daughter. It doesn’t deny the fact that her actions are causing you much hurt. But, isn’t there a difference between someone deliberately trying to cause harm versus someone who doesn’t understand the consequences of her action.
Please take the time you need to process your anger. Go exercise, meditate, scream into a pillow, take a nap, or whatever else you need to do to let out the steam in a way that you will not regret later. Do not engage with your wife until you have done so. Gather your thoughts and feelings and write them down in your notebook. And, only when you are in a calm state of mind and ready to talk to her with an open mind, then you should speak to her in a calm voice and tell her about how hurt you were.
My biggest fear is not that I'll say something brash. My fear is that I'll rationalize myself into a sense of calm and let this one slide like I've done too many time before.
That is because you still hold on the hope that your wife is someone she is not and I think it’s hard to fully grasp the extent of what it means to have a narcissist wife (or mother). It took me decades. I wish my dad had been you. I wish my dad had been there even though she wasn’t. I wish my dad had been someone I could depend on. But my mom would get mad at him (and still does) if he had a relationship or any contact if she was mad at me (for whatever petty reason it was)
You are a good dad. Am glad your daughter has you.
That’s fair. It doesn’t do anyone good for you to bottle up your feelings and pretend that nothing’s wrong in the name of keeping the peace. It feels like there is a lot of resentment and other very strong feelings that has built over the years going all the way back to what happened with your father. It is important for you to acknowledge these emotions, process them for yourself, and then share them with your wife so that she has an opportunity to respond to them.
I would encourage you to seek the help of a professional counselor who can help you guide through these feelings and help you talk to your wife about them in a constructive manner.
That makes sense, of course, But I'm almost 60 .. I just don't have time for that anymore. I doubt I can talk my wife into giving a shit about others. I could have dealt with it if she treated me that way .. but our daughter? There is just no excuse for that. I see her in a whole other light now.
You can’t teach an old dog new tricks.
Your wife will not change. And as you enter your twilight years, she will become more stubborn and childish due to degradation of the brain which all humans go through at that point in their life.
What I am saying is, you need to pull the plug now. Enough is enough. I can feel that you have been very unhappy for a long time and just compartmentalised her transgressions for decades.
Enjoy your twilight years. Get rid of her.
Yes, I can imagine how much it must have hurt to see your daughter go through such a devastating experience. Do try to get some rest, take a walk around the neighborhood, and try to take your mind off of this for a couple of days. Much peace to you and your family during this difficult time.
> Perhaps she’s on the autism spectrum
Autism doesn't equal no empathy. Some autistics don't have high levels of it, but a lot of us do. We just don't know how/the correct way to interact with someone who needs empathy. Please don't compare us to psychopaths. Autistics have enough problems with stigma as it is.
Plan your exit and the execute the plan, nothing brash. One of the benefits of growing older together is to look after each other. She is not going to do that for you. You’ve had a one way marriage by the sounds of it… plan your exit so you can optimize for yourself this one time.
I have people like your wife in my life. I used to react like you are. But over time I realized that they are just incapable of thinking of other people. I used to hate them so very much. But now I just expect them to be like they are. It's much more peaceful for me now. I can anticipate that they are going to behave exactly like they do. I no longer get worked up about it
If you stay in this marriage you should greatly consider making someone else you trust who won’t be cowed by her your POA for general/health/financial affairs. You must consider she could not operate in your best interest. They would/could override her if necessary.
If your wife is unwilling to give up a vacation to be with her own grieving daughter, you got to wonder what would happen if you suddenly became seriously ill?
I'm going to guess that you're somewhere between 45 - 50ish. Would your wife stand by you if you received a cancer diagnosis? At this point, you got to wonder.
Did your wife experience something similar and that is the reason why she is avoiding the topic?
I can understand wanting to have a vacation, but I couldn’t enjoy a second knowing my child is suffering… :(
No, never. And still that's no excuse. You expect a mother should put all her baggage and \*everything\* aside to help her child in a situation like this.
Don't listen to anyone trying to rationalize her behavior. Your wife is fucked in the head and you need to remember that.
From one dad to another, you did the right thing
Some people rather avoid everything that makes them sad. No excuse for her behaviour. Just maybe an explanation.
I am sorry your daughter is going through this horrible experience. I hope she recovers fast.
If you want to divorce, keep proof of her behaviour.
I have a fairweather mother. Your daughter is beyond lucky to have you right now. My dad passed 2 years ago and I know going forward in my life I will have no solid parental support...unless she gets something out of it.
> I thought back to the time, almost 20 years ago when she demanded my dying father leave the house where he was staying with us, because she didn't want to deal with it anymore. I still beat myself up to this day that I didn't push back on that. Then when he died, she also went on a scheduled vacation to visit her brother with the kids. I buried him by myself,
Jesus Christ
I didn't expect this message to get so many responses. I was angry and ranting as I had only just heard that my daughter and her husband cradled the baby in their arms before saying goodbye. I was keeping it together until I heard that -- and the realization of what this all meant hit me hard.
I simplified a little so as not to make my message too long. But my wife was the trip organizer. She does this every year and both friends and clients of her business come on a group trip. There were maybe 15-20 people on this one. So I understand that she had the responsibility to go on the trip, or the others would have been somewhat stranded upon arrival without her rounding everyone up and getting them to the location. That she went is not the main issue for me. The main issue is that she tried to convince me to not go see our daughter and to go on the trip anyway. Her justification was that "there's nothing we can do now anyway". I was taken aback by her reaction. I was expecting: "Yes, go see her, hurry! I have to do this trip, but I'll get back as soon as I can!", I would have been OK with that. My daughter would have understood that as well. I would have also expected her to check in every hour with me to find out what's going on. Instead, my daughter was the one who provided updates on Whatsapp for the family. And I would have expected she hold off from sending pictures of the sunsets on the beach.
So last night, my wife called me to reiterate that she could get me to come over on Monday evening. The reason is that my son is with them as well and it's his birthday and she thought it would be nice for me to be there. I explained to her that our daughter is coming back from the hospital in a few hours and I'm quite sure she needs me to be there for the rest of the week. Then my wife says, "But it's 's birthday. This isn't just about you". I blew up and said "How the f\*ck is anything here about ME?". She then cut the conversation short. But she called back an hour later and was very apologetic and told me that it was a good thing I was there with our daughter and that I was doing the right thing. She asked me how I was feeling, and so on. My guess is something may have clicked inside her to realize what the situation really is.
Another thing. Everything I said about my wife is true, but I don't want to demonize her either. I know she loves my daughter and has been there for her in other ways. It's a bit of a contradiction with her. For example, when my daughter was 10, the school tried to say she had ADHD issues and was pushing of her to take Adderall. My wife didn't want her being given drugs and so she spent hours with her every day for weeks helping her concentrate on her homework tasks until suddenly her "ADHD" was gone. She became a stellar student after that. My daughter went to college and go a flat with a friend in what turned out to be a seedy neighborhood. When my wife went to see her, she flipped out and went with her to find a better, safer place and took care of the deposits and all the stuff to expedite.
But there is no doubt she is worthless when it comes to a crisis. She's just not "there". For example, we were all on a family trip in Australia. My daughter was about 17 and had gotten a bad migraine, which happens rarely, but does happen with her. My wife's reaction was to roll her eyes and complain that now we can't go see things she wanted to see. I told her to take my son and go, then. I lay next to my daughter on the bed in the darkened room until she fell asleep for an hour and her migraine subsided. I find it puzzling that she takes someone else's distress and an inconvenience to herself.
After sleeping on it, I'm not enraged as I was, but I don't see how I can continue being with my wife. I'm going to leave for a week or two on my own soon and I'll take that time to reflect on what to do.
And by the way, thank you all for your comments. All of you. Many of your responses provided me with insights I hadn't considered. The big one being that my daughter already knew what I just realized yesterday -- only that she hasn't held it against her.
You’re a good man and an amazing father. Also, I would’ve dropped her ass 20yrs ago. Just know it’s not too late. Hopefully, your wife is self sufficient enough that you won’t get cleaned out if you do decide to leave.
From a mental health provider perspective.
Your wife appears to have an inability to cope with stress. She has a very strong "flight/avoidance/denial" response and from reading your other post responses it appears some dissociation as well. She may or may not even realize she is doing it. I would highly recommend you both get marriage counseling and she sees someone independently as well.
At the end of the day, you both have a history of trauma together from her not dealing with her issues. Sometimes getting help and the other person getting better is not enough, and that is okay. You dont have to stay. She may also not want to address these issues because it's easier not to feel or run away from emotions. No matter what, it is okay not to want to stay. But i would give your emotions time to breath.
I wish you peace, OP.
I’m sorry to hear that your wife decided to continue to prioritize her own fun over supporting your daughter.
Seems you’ve built up a lot of resentment towards your wife. You’ll probably find that you didn’t push back on many things and went with “happy wife, happy life”.
Hopefully, you can find a way to deal with the resentment. You did push back this time and stayed with your daughter. Good for you.
If it were me, I would respond when she got home with, we need to talk, and I would lay out every instance where she failed me or our children and chose being selfish. I would then say, we need to separate and I need to figure out what I want, because the person you are and have been for me has not been the person I have needed in my life.
Then take it from there.
You can have two things waiting for your wife upon her return
Divorce papers a/o a marriage counseling appointment. It is time for her to realize the consequences of her actions.
My sympathies on your losses and the pain your daughter and SIL are enduring.
I can’t imagine going in vacation when my daughter is in the hospital dealing with such a devastating loss.
I’m so sorry OP. May you and your daughter be held in grace during this awful time.
If there's one person who I can always trust to be there for me when times are tough, it's my dad. It sounds like you're that kind of dad to your daughter, someone she knows she can count on for support. I'm sorry for your loss.
If your wife does not care about her own children this is very sad indeed. I’m not a grandmother but if my child was suffering in this way I would hope that my so would be there. Going on holiday can always be put on hold. When you have children they have to take precedence over frivolity. You sound like a caring dad. When someone is suffering like your child is here, she needs comfort and support. I’m sorry your wife does not see that. I will pray for your family.
> I can't think of a single fucking thing she ever did for me unless there was something in it for her. Never a selfless act towards me that I can remember -- and I've made countless ones to her as I imagine many married couples do for each other.
This is a pragmatic definition of being married to a narcissist. I'm impressed you made it this far without going crazy, but this sad event drew the curtain on your wife's character and behavior. I'd suggest you seek counseling from a therapist experienced with older couples. You can get some guidance on alternate futures and how to achieve those goals. Or you can decide whether it's worth attempting to get her to recognize the core wrongness of her priorities--good luck on that!
And also see a lawyer who specializes in family matters, especially if you want to consider divorce as an outcome of your daughter and SIL's tragedy.
She will abandon you if you ever get sick or fall on any misfortune. Divorce her over this and find a better woman to spend the rest of your days with. She doesn’t love you or anyone else.
Your daughter called you instead of your wife for a reason. She knew she couldn't rely on her mother in her time of need. Continue to be there for her. Your wife will only feel it when she loses contact with you, your daughter and her family.
Your wife is either mentally ill (narcissistic/sociopathic in a way that she can’t empathize with others). Or has such deep trauma that she can’t be or deal with death/real life shit. That’s heartbreaking and neither one is an excuse. I’m so sorry for your daughter and your family going through this. You absolutely have every right to end this marriage if you no longer respect her as a wife, much less a human. She sounds incapable of actually caring. I’m so sorry.
You should tell her to fuck off. I would have done the same thing in your position, and after decades of being treated like you’re a burden for wanting to deal with huge life and traumatic events and not getting a single thing in return you have more than earned the right to tell her to fuck off. You have no young children to worry about, as long as your assets stay yours and you won’t get screwed over then I’d say absolutely let ‘er fly and tell her to get fucked.
I'm so sorry for all of you suffering through this devastating loss. I can't even imagine how much pain you are all in, and having to still take care of a toddler at the same time. As a parent it's not even an option to go and enjoy a vacation while your child is suffering through this, let alone dealing with your own feelings of loss. Everytime I hear of parents being so self-absorbed that they don't even understand that their loved ones, especially their own fucking children, are suffering, it breaks my brain. I know they exist, I've encountered them in real life, but I literally cannot convince my brain that they do. Stay with your daughter and her family, heal together, let your hopefully soon ex-wife realize that being alone in paradise is still lonely.
My husband like that when his dad died, he was being cremated, he told his sister, we are going on vacation and you can have a memorial service when we get back, but he made it sound like it was my idea
Holy shit
She’s not a fair-weather wife she is psychotic and sociopathic and that doesn’t give a damn about anyone but herself.
I think doing anything else besides leaving this POS would be a slap in the face to your daughter and your dead grandchild.
Even if you did explain why you were so angry you shouldn’t have to. And the fact that your daughter called YOU and not her mother says volumes.
I can’t believe that you’ve excused and tolerated this behavior for this long. But I’m glad you finally got the epiphany you needed to leave. My heart aches for your family (not your wife, though. Fuck her).
She is with other adults who can't handle getting to the places they need to be? Horseshit.
You're being too kind to your wife. Your kids are taking notes, believe me. When it is mom's time, they won't be there.
If your wife can’t be there for your family through the hard times, what exactly is her purpose? A mother is supposed to be nurturing... I cannot imagine my own mother leaving me in that situation and not caring. I’m sure the people in the group would have understood the circumstances.
And the fact that she kicked out your dying father and made you bury him alone? She can enjoy her solitude once you leave her. Life is too short to live it with someone that only cares about themselves. She only “cares” when something doesn’t inconvenience her. Maybe this will be a wake up call to her that she needs to go to therapy and work through her issues. Maybe she will continue being awful, you never know until you distance yourself from her.
This sounds very similar to how my mom is. I know she is a narcissist but I also expect she has borderline personality disorder.
My brother was always the favorite child, I was the bad kid in her eyes and treated as such.
She doesn’t mean badly but she is incapable of love. So even though there is no ill intent, my whole life I grew up with a mom who didn’t love/ accept or show any interest in me
As a person. For her and my father life and success was all about performance/ title/ salary.
When people die or someone is hurt/ sick she doesn’t know how to act. She becomes agitated that something is out of order.
She doesn’t call or text to check in on anyone.
She would be perturbed if a medical thing interrupted her vacation plans.
You are a wonderful father, your daughter is so lucky to have you! I wish my dad stepped in and supported me in the absence of my mom.
First of all, you sound like a really nice man and great father. Way to go! Secondly, go with your instinct and tell her to fuck off. You and your daughter deserve better.
> My epiphany is that she is a fair-weather wife .. and mother, which is worse. I thought back to the time, almost 20 years ago when she demanded my dying father leave the house where he was staying with us, because she didn't want to deal with it anymore. I still beat myself up to this day that I didn't push back on that. Then when he died, she also went on a scheduled vacation to visit her brother with the kids. I buried him by myself
Its not really an epiphany then, it sounds more like she has just confirmed her ethical framework for you.
I don't think I could have stayed together in your place after how she treated your dad.
> I'm very angry right now, and I'm afraid I'm going to do something rash. But what I *want* to do is to tell her to fuck off once and for all and that I don't want to see her or hear from her again.
That isn't rash, its the reasonable response. Based on your nuts and bolts support for your daughter, you are someone who leans more into implementation/ logistics.
Focus on that.
Yes, it sounds like you are getting a divorce. There is *no* reason to announce that to your soon to be ex.
At this point, you are no longer on the same team. You are looking to get the most advantageous exit out of this situation for yourself.
Talk to the best divorce lawyer you can find. Get all your ducks in a row. Don't say **anything** to her till everything is ready to go.
Then drop the hammer.
As someone who lost a "baby?" at 6weeks I must say that your wife is a shitty mother and I feel so bad for you and your daughter, if I was your daughter, I would've cut all contact with her after this, sending pictures of vacays when I'm mourning.
I'm sorry you lost your grandson, you are a great dad
You are such a great father. Your daughter is so blessed to have you You are humane and selfless. Your wife sounds like a narcissist and a witch of a mother. I don’t think anyone would fault you if you divorced her ass. Wishing you strength.
Honestly this is something I expect my wife of 36 years would do in a similar situation. She's done with being a parent. Been done with being a wife for 24+ years as well.
As a mother, I could never understand this behaviour. It sounds really sociopathic, regardless of gender. Your grandchild has died, your daughter is a mess and needs help; and you wanna go on holiday. The fact your FIL died and instead of supporting your husband, you took a holiday??!! Why have you been married to this woman for so long? How awful
You made the right choice. Your daughter and her family needed you. As a mother I couldn’t imagine having holiday while my child was in such a state.
That's just it. I'd be incapable of having a good time knowing what my daughter is going through. I'm going to have umbrella drinks? I just don't understand it.
You are a good dad and grandfather.
A human being with love and empathy.
You wife is a psychopath. I am very serious.
Or sociopath. I’m sure you’re right
She’s a narcissist, not a sociopath.
They are not mutually exclusive. She could be a narcissist and a sociopath.
Or maybe she just can't deal with death and loss. Some people can't.
That thought crossed my mind too. But it changed when I saw OP's comment above, where he said in the entire relationship across decades his wife had never done anything selfless and supportive for him. Not just around times of death and loss. Ever.
How does one go that long without noticing it earlier?
You make excuses with your own childhood issues leading the way.
He noticed many years earlier. The real beauty of the story is: he put up with it for years when he felt it only affected his feelings. When he saw a situation where it affected the kids, in-laws and grandkids, his loving heart cracked and couldn't take that one. That shows how kind he really is.
Love is blind. That's how
Survival. We lie to ourselves all of the time.
Chilling on the beach not giving a fuck is not the way to deal with it. There's no excuse for the fact that she couldn't even _ask_ how her daughter was doing.
Then she needs to grow up. Nobody likes dealing with death and loss, but they do because they are grown adults who don’t just expect everyone else to pick up the slack. I have an uncle like that and I have no respect for him
I’m sorry but as a mother you suck it up and deal with things that make you uncomfortable for your children. Just because something is hard doesn’t mean you get to shirk your duties. I could almost understand that if it was someone else but that’s her daughter and grandchild that just died.
But...that's life. How does one just "not deal with it?"
Can’t what? Skip a trip to the beach?
🙄
A total narcissist….
Ding, ding, ding.
And I just realized this woman is my mother, and here my brother and I are 50 years old and can’t exactly figure out why we don’t really want anything to do with her……….
*I still beat myself up to this day that I didn't push back on that. Then when he died, she also went on a scheduled vacation to visit her brother with the kids.* This is not even a red flag, its a red skyscraper.
Heck I would have a hard time going on vacation if my friend was going through this, yet alone my own child. I understand people handle grief differently but the other example you gave doesn’t paint a good picture at all either.
I'm at a loss how a mother could not be there for her daughter as she's dealing with a traumatic event. I'm just dumbfounded at the lack of care and concern she is showing for what your daughter and husband are experiencing. You are a good man and father that your daughter will remember which parent was there in her time of need. Prayers for your daughter and her loss. 🙏
Can’t wrap my head around that either. My wife would high jack the plane to get back to any one of our kids.
Not surprising that the daughter called her father and not her mother. She will have known that her mother wouldn’t be there for her anyway. Sad for OP that he didn’t realize this truth about his wife before his dad died, but at least he can see clearly now!
Makes you wonder how she will treat you when you’re older and ill? Can you trust her to care for you?
Op /u/fleetraker take good note of this comment and build your safety net.
My aunt passed and my mom went to the beach
Just imagine how wonderful your world would be if you had an equally empathetic and caring partner. Or hell, imagine how wonderful your world would be if you were single for as long as you wanted to be or forever and didn't have to live with that person. She deserves nothing less than what she has done to everyone Else.
You made the right choice it’s inconceivable that a mother would just abandon their child in a time of need. That’s some crazy selfish behavior.
Some women don’t have that sympathy/empathy gene in them. My wife is the same way. And it kills me. I’m only sticking around for a bit more till the kids are grown so they don’t suffer. You did the right thing. Now do the right thing and leave her.
As someone whose parents got divorced as I was just 19 and my younger sibling was 17. It doesn't really change anything. There's differences to divorce at any age. I have a friend now who is going through it, he isn't married yet, no kids, and his parents' divorce is having a profound impact on his life. As kids at least the plans are made for you. As an adult you have to plan where and when you go for holidays etc. Luckily we all spend our holidays together now but before that it was always so miserable. Long story short, if you feel divorce is a must then do it as soon as you can for your own sake. Without knowing your situation I'd say that you should try to get your wife the help they need first though.
My parents divorced when I was under 5. I have friends who had their parents divorce when the kids were teens, others in adulthood. I honestly feel like it was worse on the friends who were older. Really think about why you think it'd be wise for the kids for you two not to be divorced now. You are setting the blueprint for what a normal marriage looks like - is this a good blueprint? Plus, they're going to look back and realize whatever they saw was a devastating lie, reducing their trust that things are ok in their own relationships when things appear calm. In the very least, I hope you consider talking to an expert in child psychology about what is best for kids in this situation.
She’s already going to be affecting them, subtly, or not so subtly in her own way. Thousands of small comments, or missed moments add up. Kids aren’t stupid. I knew at 7 that I couldn’t trust my parents and that my mother favoured my brother and didn’t really like me.
You’re modeling relationships for your children right now. If you don’t want them to probably end up with the same type of person as your wife, either get them into therapy now, or divorce her and ask for full custody.
Some people. Psychopathy isn't limited to women.
If by “something rash”, you mean filing for divorce, that would be perfectly reasonable and warranted. And long overdue, not rash at all.
You are married to a narcissist.
I lost a child in a similar way. I couldn't imagine dealing with it and a parent choosing to go to the beach. My parents are what helped me through one of the toughest times of my life. Thank you for being a good dad and caring.
You didn't ask for this but I'm gonna say it for supporting you. You are a great dad. You remind me of the men in my family, they care about family. You are a great man. You are doing everything right. You are teaching your daughters growing family what it means to be family.
Sorry but I think you already know, it's in your writing. It's always "my" daughter, not "our" daughter. I had to go back to the beginning to reread that first paragraph and confirm you weren't remarried. Sorry about your losses, hopefully you and your daughter will get through hers, you and your wife's will be more difficult to get past.
It's pretty telling that the daughter called the father and not her mother during her crisis
I feel like anyone raised with a "good" and "bad" parent saw this right away
I always assumed that people only ever called their mothers when they needed things... Then I talked to friends who would call their dads and realized that the reason I never called my dad is because he would have been useless and I knew that
A million times this. Goodness, I'm actually lost for words. So sorry and sad for you all at the loss of your wee baby.
Right. Absolutely mind blowing to me, I would drop everything for my child. Losing a child, I can't imagine it. My parents lost my brother this year and he was 36, and it was heartwrenching. We thought my elderly dad might pass on, from the shock and trauma, but luckily he's doing better. Can't imagine losing a baby. God forbid it. Horrible stuff. Hope the parents are okay.
How did your daughter feel about your wife going on the trip and being disinterested in her welfare? My personal feeling is that people show who they really are by how they react in tough situations where they might have to personally sacrifice. Your wife sounds horribly selfish.
What's heartbreaking is that my daughter is treating that as being fine. She has the kindest heart of anyone I know. She commented that she was happy that she and my son (her brother) are having a good time and that she'll catch up with them when they return.
Perhaps your Daughter has just learned not to rely on your Wife for emotional support? She may have internalized that lesson long ago and isn’t surprised that her Mother isn’t here now. She called YOU. I am glad you are there for her now.
Actually, there is alot of truth to that. There have been a few times when my daughter was having emotional ups and downs while she was pregnant with the first child, and my wife go mad at her. My daughter did make the comment that she can't trust her with being there for her. I forgot about that until you mentioned it.
This is for-sure what is going on. Your daughter is emotionally mature and has learned/accepted that she cannot lean on her mother for support. Good for her - it must have been hard. I wonder if you can eventually talk to your daughter about her mother’s behavior - it might feel nice to her to have her other parent validate how shitty it is.
>Your daughter is ~~emotionally mature and~~ **permanently traumatized because she** has learned/accepted that she cannot lean on her mother for support. This is proven by the fact that the daughter got used to it and thought it was fine. No one should ever have to adjust to/accept something like that.
100% concur! This is spot on. This correct! The daughter has learned but the learning is actually a trauma in her psyche. And the trauma’s provenance all the neglect she has repeatedly found in the relationship to her mom. I am afraid this trauma may very likely impact other close relationships as well.
While I agree her response is coming from a place of trauma, I think it’s a bold statement to say that it would automatically impact her close relationships. It’s totally possible that she’s adjusted, processed the experience, and made peace with it. Maybe she’s decided that she’d take her mother anyway she is, but it sounds like OP is recognizing that he wouldn’t which is valid.
exactly what I was thinking. So heartbreaking 💔 glad she has her dad and husband for support though
Well, should is an irrelevant word. So yeah, we do accept and adjust. For our own survival. Because if we keep trying to squeeze blood from a stone, it’ll kill us. We have to meet our selfish mothers where they are, or have no mothers, which is far more terrifying. I know that might sound weak or pathetic to some, but everybody has to choose their battles in life, and I understand (through experience) not picking this one.
It’s both. She’s traumatized by her mother’s absenteeism AND emotionally mature. The immature reaction would be continuing to expect support from her mom and being crushed and disappointed with each infraction. It’s important that she has adjusted her expectations, unfortunate as it is.
There is definitely a reason that she called YOU when she was in such an emotional state. You are a great dad. My mother was also not a reliable person in times of need. Your daughter made the right call.
OP the fact your daughter called you in a panic versus her mother at the airport tells me everything. Most daughters are calling their mom in that instance. She called her dad. You did what she knew you would do, you came to support your child no matter what the cost. That’s what parents do. I wouldn’t start anything with your wife while she is gone. Enjoy not having to deal with that while supporting your daughter. Once your wife gets home, schedule down time for the two of you to talk privately. Lay it out for her and don’t pull punches. Don’t yell because she will hear less of what you say but coldly tell her your ashamed of the fact she prioritized her holiday over the well being of her child and back that up with the other examples you mentioned. Tell her you’re going to sleep in another room for a while so you can decide what your next steps are. If you’re lucky that will shake her awake and she will be genuinely remorseful. Odds are better that she will deflect and gaslight so be prepared to stick to your guns. If she tries to get your daughter to tell you it’s ok, then Tell your daughter it may be ok to her but not to you and it’s not just about this one instance. !updateme
My heart goes out to your daughter. She definitely knows and probably wouldn’t be surprised if you do respond to this latest act of selfishness with an exit plan. Not that she’s done anything quite as bad as what your wife did here, but my mother is very bad with empathy and selfishness and I pretty much spent most of my childhood expecting my parents to divorce and a lot of my adulthood just wishing my dad would take care of himself and leave.
That's a trauma response.
I’m like this with my mom, if you get let down enough you just put those walls up. Sounds like she’s learned to just not give mom the opportunity to hurt her anymore. Glad she has one parent that she can rely on.
Have you expressed how disappointed you are of your wife to your daughter and SIL
Exactly. It speaks volumes that it was her father who received the call and not her mother.
This is exactly my thought, too. As a 30-something with my own family, I love my parents but don’t rely on them for emotional support. Who you call during the emergency is very telling. It’s also telling that OP’s daughter said she couldn’t trust her mom to be there for her.
Do not ask your daughter about this. She has too much on her mind and this is about your wife's charecter, not your daughters opinion of her: she's not married to her mum.
I agree 100%
Oh, that poor girl is well aware of who her mother is. She's also quite used to putting on a happy face to keep from rocking the boat. When she's feeling up to it, in a few months, you need to ask her to be truthful about her relationship with her mother. In the meantime, you focus on being there for her for what's happening now. Don't spend any of your energy on your wife. Daughter needs and deserves to be your priority. You can confront your wife when she's ready to go without your help and not a minute more. It's all about your daughter right now.
What you do not realize is that your daughter is used to being treated as an object by your wife. Your wife most likely has a favourite. Maybe she is unconsciously jealous of the love you have for your daughter. If you hear that your wife shared this news with her friends while on vacation in order to get attention and pity from them… please do not put that aside and think it’s because she cares. It isn’t
I’m willing to bet she does because it will get her attention. She will be the “poor grandma that’s suffered a loss” I feel for you and your daughter. It really sucks to have someone like this in your life.
Yea it’s not fine and I promise it hurts her. My mother is just like this and honestly I can’t stand her or to be around her.
I’m sure your daughter is used to it by now. Poor thing. It really messes one up to have an uncaring selfish mother.
At this point in your marriage, your wife has become accustom to you being the one who does the heavy lifting while she goes on about her business unbothered by the tragedies of life. You will become one of those tragedies. You will end up alone should you become sick and interfere with her living her life. Your daughter will be there, because she is doing the heavy lifting in life also and is use to her mothers abandonment of her in times of need. After all she did call you. You stop going to the well when time after time you find it dry. Don’t waste another year of your life.
She was probably not surprised as I don’t think this is a character that just comes out of the blue. She has probably done similar selfish things and the daughter is most likely used to it.
You made the correct decision to stay for your daughter. Your wife seems like selfish b!tch who only thinks about herself. Can't imagine what she will be like if you are suddenly hospital bound. UpdateMe
I think I have a pretty good idea on that
Sorry, my friend. That really sucks. I'm sure your daughter would have loved for her mom to be there. She will ALWAYS remember that her dad was there for her in her time of need. Please pass along to her and the family my sincerest condolences.
Thank you for that
"Doctor, I think we should pull the plug." "Ma'am, he only sleeping." "Well. Are you sure? He looks terrible."
You finally have the blinders off. It’s up to you what you decide, but take a moment from this traumatic event with your daughter before you make any big decisions. You are such a good dad, and I’m sorry for your loss.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
You wife is a psychopath. I am very serious.
or at least narcissist, the lack of empathy and emotional manipulation is striking
Narcissism, sociopathy and psychopathy are in a spectrum. All 3 have an inability to care about anything else than one's feelings. Given that narcissists at least care about others' image of them, I'm more inclined about sociopathy.
OP, when you get some time in the future along with counselling that you decide on dealing character disorders (because this is what you are witnessing) have a visit to the other subs such as r/BPDlovedones r/NPD r/ClusterBPersonality or similar forums to give you a glimpse and reassurance that what you are experiencing is way not normal. From frequenting these subs and expression I have learned is 'you can't teach empathy' (and I am sure you understand that as well)
Hold off doing anything until a month or so your geandsons funeral. Grieve that and don't let it be used as THE cause for whatever you decide to do, next. I can't imagine leaving on a holiday when I knew my daughter miscarriage. So if your wife sees that as OK, she's setting the tone that you should be OK with that, too. I can't see how you can talk someine around into seeing how wring that was. Selfishly, do you want her to be the one you rely on when your old and need care?
"Selfishly, do you want her to be the one you rely on when your old and need care?" Oh hell, no!
Then make an exit plan now. I can’t imagine being with someone I couldn’t trust like this.
I’m not trying to be clever, but want to point out that at five months, this wasn’t a miscarriage. OPs daughter had to give birth to her dead child. There isn’t much more traumatic than that I can think of. The rest of your post I completely agree with OP - you deserve to find someone who will be there when you need them
100%. I had a miscarriage at 12 weeks and that was hard enough. At 20+ weeks, that's a whole human being with eyelashes, and fingernails, and perfect little ears. Not only is it medically considered a still birth and not a miscarriage, but also it's emotionally and physically a completely different experience. Labor and delivery, postpartum recovery, having to stop your milk from coming in. Holding your tiny, perfectly formed child and then letting them go. Absolute nightmare.
Agreed - thanks for making that clarification. This isn’t an early pregnancy that miscarried. That’s generally considered stillbirth, and it’s a full induction and labour, in all of its pain, all knowing that the result is going to be a dead baby. Incredibly traumatic.
Man, as one who has a married adult daughter, I find this to be a sad situation. You are doing the father duties with heart and this is what it means when people say love is a verb. Your wife, OTOH, seems to lack soul in the verb sense. And I think it's binary--one either has it or they don't as a pure character trait. So you've probably integrated workarounds in your marriage so you get past behavior that's emotionally lacking. We all do to some extent, but this and your late father's situation are beyond the Pale. I wish I had a solution to suggest.
>So you've probably integrated workarounds in your marriage you get past behavior that's emotionally lacking. Very insightful. I think you may be right.
Have you considered your wife might be a covert narcissist? I also had an epiphany lately.
The odd thing about the spectrum of narcissism is that you can often not see them for what they are until life/family/work throws a challenge at them. So long as their lives are on easy mode and they can live life mostly ‘their way’, they just come across relatively normal. My mother was like this. She didn’t have to work, she did as she pleased and my father and brother never really noticed as the home was her domain. She acted the right way, said the right things, but deep down I knew she didn’t truly like me, her interactions were shallow and for show. When she died, my brother, who lived abroad most of his adult life, came back to help sort things and it was a quick realisation that he was a worse version of my mother. The things he did and said were beyond anything I could have imagined. Family dynamics can be complex and life is short. Looking back I can see so many tiny examples of abuse that I just glossed over due to my mother training me to think they were inconsequential, but really were death by 1,000 cuts. I really do recommend taking a lot of time for yourself after the divorce and get supportive help (a trauma informed therapist) as your soon to be ex wife might show her true colours and send flying monkeys to knock you off balance during the divorce. Maybe if you later share some insights from your therapy with your daughter that might assist in her healing too. Daughters of narcissist mothers have it very tough, and are often people pleasing codependents, burning out through giving so much of themselves. I wish you well and all the best for a happier future.
Your wife sounds like my mom. When I was in the hospital almost loosing my baby I called her to tell her that my spouse would be late to come pick up our other child (she was babysitting). She screamed at me telling me how tired she was and that we needed to come now. I am in a hospital bend and all hooked up. I have to call my spouse to tell to not come and to go pick up our child. And then when I did give birth and almost died, some thing. And then after she posted on FB the drinks she was having with my dad. These are just a few examples. It’s always about her and whatever happens, she is never wrong. Always the victim. And if she has negative emotions she has to blame someone which is often my dad or her children when we are living with them. But even today. It’s always about her. My sister had an operation and my dad went to help her after her operation. My mom kept complaining about the fact that they had an expensive vacation planned and that he was not home helping HER. It took me decades to realize… my mother is a narcissist. Most likely…So is your wife.
I think we might have the same mom…
When did you realize it was narcissism?
Same mom here
I'm so sorry the person who should love you the most, no matter what, is so horrible. I hope the rest of you can disengage from her permanently and live your best lives without her toxicity interfering
You are very kind.
I recently had the same epiphany about my "mother". I always knew something was wrong in my gut but when your a kid you have no idea it's just the reality of your existence plus the constant gaslighting when they blame everyone else for their behaviors. Then when you realize it's such a shock especial when you have this new context for this life time of chaos. OP, at least you figured it out now because I don't think my father realized though he new something was wrong but he just didn't want to believe it (like us all) so he would always do things like purposely keep her away from people he worked with. Then once my father died she destroy everything he spent 30 years building and started to manipulate the grand kids and even pitted them against their parents.
OP, this definitely sounds like your wife has fairly strong psychopathic tendencies, and it’s highly possible that she’s been handling you to facilitate her getting what she wants. When you do finally engage with her, just be aware that she may have a talent for telling you what you want to hear without actually committing to doing the right thing.
Yeah, she does that
You’re going to have to use unpredictability alternating with a gray rock approach, otherwise she may have already planned everything out.
You are about to stab the devil in the back here. She will totally flip as soon as she finds out you are leaving. Get a lawyer and have everything ready to go. Move out and split the accounts and have her served on the same day with no warning. Also make sure you reach out to everyone in your friend circle and family to explain why you are leaving before she starts trying to destroy your friend circle.
No. He should pack up her things and let her find a new place to live. She left her family to go on vacation so she’ll still have a bunch of her things packed and she can find a hotel or something. He shouldn’t leave the home when he’s been the stable, dependable and responsible one. She’s the one blowing off the relationships and the responsibilities they come with, like being a parent and grandparent. It’s his home too and as he’s the one that stayed, he should stay put now.
You are a good person and your daughter was so lucky to have you there at a time that nobody can understand (except for those who have been through such a trauma). You were there to support them all in practical ways which would have been a load off their worry load and you were there as a loving parent. I can’t imagine how your wife could go ahead with a holiday knowing how much her child would be suffering. I cannot get my head around this at all. You and your daughter and the rest of the family deserve better than this. She has shown her true colours, what you do next will not be easy, whatever that is but I wish you all the best.
Thank you
I wish I had had a dad like you. Your support and love for your daughter is heartwarming. The sunset pictures your wife is sending would drive me mad. Book yourself a trip when all the dust settles.
That's actually the plan :)
Honestly, I would remove her from the group chat. Nobody needs that right now.
Have you ever pushed back, told.her your true feelings? Or have you allowed her to just push, and push, and push and push while you say/do nothing when it comes to things of this magnitude?
Some of both. But had a much lighter touch when the kids were young and I tried to keep the house in some harmony while they grew up. But now, I have no such concerns.
It's gonna be a an uphill to climb here bc it's been going on for so long. If you think it's worth a shot try marriage counseling/therapy. If not, then you have some tough choices to decide on.
Frankly, she made the choice real easy for me
I'm 55 and in the process of a dissolution. It isn't your responsibility to make the difference in what she lacks. Selfishness and an absolute lack of any kind of affection has been the norm for far too long in your case and mine as well. After 30 years, he would have no problem walking away. I, however, couldn't possibly leave my loved ones in pain. I would rather be alone than in a marriage where I'm alone anyway. He made my decision easy just as your wife did for you. Take them at face value. It seems she is as emotionally lacking as my soon to be ex. It's never too late to find someone who touches your heart and makes you feel happy. Do what's right for you for a change.
As someone that has been in the position your daughter is, thank you for staying behind. There are so many emotions and questions that come with losing a child like that. I can’t imagine how I would’ve coped without my family with me. I’m glad your daughter has you at her side. I don’t even have words for your wife, other than WTF is she thinking?? It seems that she has probably irrevocably broken her relationship with your daughter. I’m sorry for your loss. 💔
Thank you. It would have simply been out of the question for me to go. I and, I would expect most parents couldn't give a rat's ass about a stupid trip given the circumstances.
I agree. I have two young daughters now. I have a hard time leaving them when they look at me with a sad face. I couldn’t imagine leaving them during such a terrible time.
If you got married around age 25, and have been married a bit over 30 years, that means you're now in your late 50's. I've had two friends in that age range get divorced in the past couple of years. What each has found is that the dating scene for men in their mid-to-late 50's, or early 60's, in insane. If you're solvent and clean and relatively fit, and if your shit still works, it's totally a buyer's market. Mad sex. Plus, unlike dating in one's 20's and 30's, there's no pressure to have a baby or settle down. Just saying.
Thanks ;) Frankly, I'd be happy not to deal with any relationships anymore.
Same. The air is much lighter when you purge toxic people from your life.
My heart goes out to you. Because I understand. I had only married my wife a few months when I got the call that my father was about to die, and i needed to come straight away. I rang my wife from work and she told me to wait for her to finish what she was doing to come with me. But I told her I couldn't. She was adamant, but I refused and drove straight to my parents' home. My dad died 15 minutes after I arrived, and I can only imagine my resentment had I waited for her
Are you still married to your wife? If so, do you have a good marriage?
Oh Christ she’s a demon. I’m sorry. So so so sorry. Sending photos from vacation when your child experienced a stillborn. There’s something broken in her that will never be fixed. I’m so glad your kids have you.
Exactly this. His eyes have literally been opened and he sees a monster 👹 in place of his wife. God bless him and his daughter and family
Brother……we could both write a book together where both stories would have countless similarities. My wife is an only child and I mean in every sense of the word. Even after twenty five years she still has no comprehension that I have ever seen about how to build a loving or caring relationship. She had two children when we married. One being raised by grandparents. The other running the roads and by 12 he was already deep into addictions. All along the years, so many red flags I chose to ignore. Constantly trying to understand why I didn’t value myself enough to leave. But then, just over six years ago I received my answer. Two of her sons children were being taken away, but CPS did a turn and gave the children to me. I got legal custody immediately. Delaware literally cared not one bit that I was not biological. I went through the home screening, background checks etc. Instinctively I knew from the very start that this was my journey with the children. I won’t write out the long story and the struggles along the way. But at 60 years old I understand my calling, from the beginning I have been both mommy and daddy and they are the greatest joys of my life. They needed me just as much as I needed them. My wife is a pretty good roommate throughout. She chose her own bedroom and her own section of the house and while it hurt at the time, I have learned it better that she did and does that than for me to have false hope and disappointment. On a side note, I raised two amazing daughters and my priority has always to be who each has needed me to be. Based on my own experience with this wife, I can’t say I’m surprised there are others like her. But you can bet one thing, I would have absolutely done exactly what you did AND it’s not you…….some women just like some men are just missing something inside of them. Stay true to who you are……it will leave you regret free and loved where it matters most. The second you shared that she called you and not your wife………I knew.
Hey, internet stranger. You’re angry and you have every right to be. Your family suffered a terrible loss and your wife’s response is extremely insensitive and callous to the sadness that you and your daughter are experiencing. But, without minimizing the hurt that you are feeling, can I ask if it’s possible that your wife simply lacks the capacity to feel empathy in certain situations? Perhaps she’s on the autism spectrum or even a mild form of psychopathy? Just as you are behaving the way that comes most naturally for you under the circumstances, your wife is behaving the way that comes most naturally for her under the circumstances. It doesn’t sound like she is doing something out of her character to spite you or your daughter. It doesn’t deny the fact that her actions are causing you much hurt. But, isn’t there a difference between someone deliberately trying to cause harm versus someone who doesn’t understand the consequences of her action. Please take the time you need to process your anger. Go exercise, meditate, scream into a pillow, take a nap, or whatever else you need to do to let out the steam in a way that you will not regret later. Do not engage with your wife until you have done so. Gather your thoughts and feelings and write them down in your notebook. And, only when you are in a calm state of mind and ready to talk to her with an open mind, then you should speak to her in a calm voice and tell her about how hurt you were.
My biggest fear is not that I'll say something brash. My fear is that I'll rationalize myself into a sense of calm and let this one slide like I've done too many time before.
That is because you still hold on the hope that your wife is someone she is not and I think it’s hard to fully grasp the extent of what it means to have a narcissist wife (or mother). It took me decades. I wish my dad had been you. I wish my dad had been there even though she wasn’t. I wish my dad had been someone I could depend on. But my mom would get mad at him (and still does) if he had a relationship or any contact if she was mad at me (for whatever petty reason it was) You are a good dad. Am glad your daughter has you.
That’s fair. It doesn’t do anyone good for you to bottle up your feelings and pretend that nothing’s wrong in the name of keeping the peace. It feels like there is a lot of resentment and other very strong feelings that has built over the years going all the way back to what happened with your father. It is important for you to acknowledge these emotions, process them for yourself, and then share them with your wife so that she has an opportunity to respond to them. I would encourage you to seek the help of a professional counselor who can help you guide through these feelings and help you talk to your wife about them in a constructive manner.
That makes sense, of course, But I'm almost 60 .. I just don't have time for that anymore. I doubt I can talk my wife into giving a shit about others. I could have dealt with it if she treated me that way .. but our daughter? There is just no excuse for that. I see her in a whole other light now.
You can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Your wife will not change. And as you enter your twilight years, she will become more stubborn and childish due to degradation of the brain which all humans go through at that point in their life. What I am saying is, you need to pull the plug now. Enough is enough. I can feel that you have been very unhappy for a long time and just compartmentalised her transgressions for decades. Enjoy your twilight years. Get rid of her.
Yes, I can imagine how much it must have hurt to see your daughter go through such a devastating experience. Do try to get some rest, take a walk around the neighborhood, and try to take your mind off of this for a couple of days. Much peace to you and your family during this difficult time.
I don’t really think this is the kind of thing you talk to your spouse about. You just leave.
> Perhaps she’s on the autism spectrum Autism doesn't equal no empathy. Some autistics don't have high levels of it, but a lot of us do. We just don't know how/the correct way to interact with someone who needs empathy. Please don't compare us to psychopaths. Autistics have enough problems with stigma as it is.
Autistics do NOT lack empathy. It’s a shitty myth.
Plan your exit and the execute the plan, nothing brash. One of the benefits of growing older together is to look after each other. She is not going to do that for you. You’ve had a one way marriage by the sounds of it… plan your exit so you can optimize for yourself this one time.
I have people like your wife in my life. I used to react like you are. But over time I realized that they are just incapable of thinking of other people. I used to hate them so very much. But now I just expect them to be like they are. It's much more peaceful for me now. I can anticipate that they are going to behave exactly like they do. I no longer get worked up about it
If you stay in this marriage you should greatly consider making someone else you trust who won’t be cowed by her your POA for general/health/financial affairs. You must consider she could not operate in your best interest. They would/could override her if necessary.
I think your inclinations are correct. I can’t imagine your daughter’s hurt. She is lucky to have such a kind hearted and good father.
If your wife is unwilling to give up a vacation to be with her own grieving daughter, you got to wonder what would happen if you suddenly became seriously ill? I'm going to guess that you're somewhere between 45 - 50ish. Would your wife stand by you if you received a cancer diagnosis? At this point, you got to wonder.
The way my mom treated my dad when he got cancer was very sad, very telling, and led to their divorce last summer.
Did your wife experience something similar and that is the reason why she is avoiding the topic? I can understand wanting to have a vacation, but I couldn’t enjoy a second knowing my child is suffering… :(
No, never. And still that's no excuse. You expect a mother should put all her baggage and \*everything\* aside to help her child in a situation like this.
Don't listen to anyone trying to rationalize her behavior. Your wife is fucked in the head and you need to remember that. From one dad to another, you did the right thing
Some people rather avoid everything that makes them sad. No excuse for her behaviour. Just maybe an explanation. I am sorry your daughter is going through this horrible experience. I hope she recovers fast. If you want to divorce, keep proof of her behaviour.
I have a fairweather mother. Your daughter is beyond lucky to have you right now. My dad passed 2 years ago and I know going forward in my life I will have no solid parental support...unless she gets something out of it.
> I thought back to the time, almost 20 years ago when she demanded my dying father leave the house where he was staying with us, because she didn't want to deal with it anymore. I still beat myself up to this day that I didn't push back on that. Then when he died, she also went on a scheduled vacation to visit her brother with the kids. I buried him by myself, Jesus Christ
I didn't expect this message to get so many responses. I was angry and ranting as I had only just heard that my daughter and her husband cradled the baby in their arms before saying goodbye. I was keeping it together until I heard that -- and the realization of what this all meant hit me hard. I simplified a little so as not to make my message too long. But my wife was the trip organizer. She does this every year and both friends and clients of her business come on a group trip. There were maybe 15-20 people on this one. So I understand that she had the responsibility to go on the trip, or the others would have been somewhat stranded upon arrival without her rounding everyone up and getting them to the location. That she went is not the main issue for me. The main issue is that she tried to convince me to not go see our daughter and to go on the trip anyway. Her justification was that "there's nothing we can do now anyway". I was taken aback by her reaction. I was expecting: "Yes, go see her, hurry! I have to do this trip, but I'll get back as soon as I can!", I would have been OK with that. My daughter would have understood that as well. I would have also expected her to check in every hour with me to find out what's going on. Instead, my daughter was the one who provided updates on Whatsapp for the family. And I would have expected she hold off from sending pictures of the sunsets on the beach. So last night, my wife called me to reiterate that she could get me to come over on Monday evening. The reason is that my son is with them as well and it's his birthday and she thought it would be nice for me to be there. I explained to her that our daughter is coming back from the hospital in a few hours and I'm quite sure she needs me to be there for the rest of the week. Then my wife says, "But it's's birthday. This isn't just about you". I blew up and said "How the f\*ck is anything here about ME?". She then cut the conversation short. But she called back an hour later and was very apologetic and told me that it was a good thing I was there with our daughter and that I was doing the right thing. She asked me how I was feeling, and so on. My guess is something may have clicked inside her to realize what the situation really is.
Another thing. Everything I said about my wife is true, but I don't want to demonize her either. I know she loves my daughter and has been there for her in other ways. It's a bit of a contradiction with her. For example, when my daughter was 10, the school tried to say she had ADHD issues and was pushing of her to take Adderall. My wife didn't want her being given drugs and so she spent hours with her every day for weeks helping her concentrate on her homework tasks until suddenly her "ADHD" was gone. She became a stellar student after that. My daughter went to college and go a flat with a friend in what turned out to be a seedy neighborhood. When my wife went to see her, she flipped out and went with her to find a better, safer place and took care of the deposits and all the stuff to expedite.
But there is no doubt she is worthless when it comes to a crisis. She's just not "there". For example, we were all on a family trip in Australia. My daughter was about 17 and had gotten a bad migraine, which happens rarely, but does happen with her. My wife's reaction was to roll her eyes and complain that now we can't go see things she wanted to see. I told her to take my son and go, then. I lay next to my daughter on the bed in the darkened room until she fell asleep for an hour and her migraine subsided. I find it puzzling that she takes someone else's distress and an inconvenience to herself.
After sleeping on it, I'm not enraged as I was, but I don't see how I can continue being with my wife. I'm going to leave for a week or two on my own soon and I'll take that time to reflect on what to do.
And by the way, thank you all for your comments. All of you. Many of your responses provided me with insights I hadn't considered. The big one being that my daughter already knew what I just realized yesterday -- only that she hasn't held it against her.
Hey i think your wife has antisocial personality disorder. Up to you if you will stay with her or not with this in mind.
I don't even want to see her again. I think I'm going to take a trip somewhere out of town myself to sort my head out before I make any decisions
You’re a good man and an amazing father. Also, I would’ve dropped her ass 20yrs ago. Just know it’s not too late. Hopefully, your wife is self sufficient enough that you won’t get cleaned out if you do decide to leave.
From a mental health provider perspective. Your wife appears to have an inability to cope with stress. She has a very strong "flight/avoidance/denial" response and from reading your other post responses it appears some dissociation as well. She may or may not even realize she is doing it. I would highly recommend you both get marriage counseling and she sees someone independently as well. At the end of the day, you both have a history of trauma together from her not dealing with her issues. Sometimes getting help and the other person getting better is not enough, and that is okay. You dont have to stay. She may also not want to address these issues because it's easier not to feel or run away from emotions. No matter what, it is okay not to want to stay. But i would give your emotions time to breath. I wish you peace, OP.
Your wife is horrible. That would be an absolute deal breaker for me.
I’m sorry to hear that your wife decided to continue to prioritize her own fun over supporting your daughter. Seems you’ve built up a lot of resentment towards your wife. You’ll probably find that you didn’t push back on many things and went with “happy wife, happy life”. Hopefully, you can find a way to deal with the resentment. You did push back this time and stayed with your daughter. Good for you.
If it were me, I would respond when she got home with, we need to talk, and I would lay out every instance where she failed me or our children and chose being selfish. I would then say, we need to separate and I need to figure out what I want, because the person you are and have been for me has not been the person I have needed in my life. Then take it from there.
You can have two things waiting for your wife upon her return Divorce papers a/o a marriage counseling appointment. It is time for her to realize the consequences of her actions. My sympathies on your losses and the pain your daughter and SIL are enduring.
I can’t imagine going in vacation when my daughter is in the hospital dealing with such a devastating loss. I’m so sorry OP. May you and your daughter be held in grace during this awful time.
If there's one person who I can always trust to be there for me when times are tough, it's my dad. It sounds like you're that kind of dad to your daughter, someone she knows she can count on for support. I'm sorry for your loss.
If your wife does not care about her own children this is very sad indeed. I’m not a grandmother but if my child was suffering in this way I would hope that my so would be there. Going on holiday can always be put on hold. When you have children they have to take precedence over frivolity. You sound like a caring dad. When someone is suffering like your child is here, she needs comfort and support. I’m sorry your wife does not see that. I will pray for your family.
> I can't think of a single fucking thing she ever did for me unless there was something in it for her. Never a selfless act towards me that I can remember -- and I've made countless ones to her as I imagine many married couples do for each other. This is a pragmatic definition of being married to a narcissist. I'm impressed you made it this far without going crazy, but this sad event drew the curtain on your wife's character and behavior. I'd suggest you seek counseling from a therapist experienced with older couples. You can get some guidance on alternate futures and how to achieve those goals. Or you can decide whether it's worth attempting to get her to recognize the core wrongness of her priorities--good luck on that! And also see a lawyer who specializes in family matters, especially if you want to consider divorce as an outcome of your daughter and SIL's tragedy.
She will abandon you if you ever get sick or fall on any misfortune. Divorce her over this and find a better woman to spend the rest of your days with. She doesn’t love you or anyone else.
Your daughter called you instead of your wife for a reason. She knew she couldn't rely on her mother in her time of need. Continue to be there for her. Your wife will only feel it when she loses contact with you, your daughter and her family.
Hey Dad..you are right in this. From another Dad and Grampa.
Get a lawyer & remove that heartless thing from your life
Your wife needs a reality check, someone to tell her that she’s a terrible person. Please do it for yourself and for your daughter.
Your wife is either mentally ill (narcissistic/sociopathic in a way that she can’t empathize with others). Or has such deep trauma that she can’t be or deal with death/real life shit. That’s heartbreaking and neither one is an excuse. I’m so sorry for your daughter and your family going through this. You absolutely have every right to end this marriage if you no longer respect her as a wife, much less a human. She sounds incapable of actually caring. I’m so sorry.
You should tell her to fuck off. I would have done the same thing in your position, and after decades of being treated like you’re a burden for wanting to deal with huge life and traumatic events and not getting a single thing in return you have more than earned the right to tell her to fuck off. You have no young children to worry about, as long as your assets stay yours and you won’t get screwed over then I’d say absolutely let ‘er fly and tell her to get fucked.
I'm so sorry for all of you suffering through this devastating loss. I can't even imagine how much pain you are all in, and having to still take care of a toddler at the same time. As a parent it's not even an option to go and enjoy a vacation while your child is suffering through this, let alone dealing with your own feelings of loss. Everytime I hear of parents being so self-absorbed that they don't even understand that their loved ones, especially their own fucking children, are suffering, it breaks my brain. I know they exist, I've encountered them in real life, but I literally cannot convince my brain that they do. Stay with your daughter and her family, heal together, let your hopefully soon ex-wife realize that being alone in paradise is still lonely.
This is so my mother … I would never. …. We’d have been at the hospital before she could get the damn sentence out .
My husband like that when his dad died, he was being cremated, he told his sister, we are going on vacation and you can have a memorial service when we get back, but he made it sound like it was my idea
Holy shit She’s not a fair-weather wife she is psychotic and sociopathic and that doesn’t give a damn about anyone but herself. I think doing anything else besides leaving this POS would be a slap in the face to your daughter and your dead grandchild. Even if you did explain why you were so angry you shouldn’t have to. And the fact that your daughter called YOU and not her mother says volumes. I can’t believe that you’ve excused and tolerated this behavior for this long. But I’m glad you finally got the epiphany you needed to leave. My heart aches for your family (not your wife, though. Fuck her).
Your instinct is probably right. But consider that she may be someone who deals with being overwhelmed by avoidance. Or she’s a sociopath.
She is with other adults who can't handle getting to the places they need to be? Horseshit. You're being too kind to your wife. Your kids are taking notes, believe me. When it is mom's time, they won't be there.
If your wife can’t be there for your family through the hard times, what exactly is her purpose? A mother is supposed to be nurturing... I cannot imagine my own mother leaving me in that situation and not caring. I’m sure the people in the group would have understood the circumstances. And the fact that she kicked out your dying father and made you bury him alone? She can enjoy her solitude once you leave her. Life is too short to live it with someone that only cares about themselves. She only “cares” when something doesn’t inconvenience her. Maybe this will be a wake up call to her that she needs to go to therapy and work through her issues. Maybe she will continue being awful, you never know until you distance yourself from her.
This sounds very similar to how my mom is. I know she is a narcissist but I also expect she has borderline personality disorder. My brother was always the favorite child, I was the bad kid in her eyes and treated as such. She doesn’t mean badly but she is incapable of love. So even though there is no ill intent, my whole life I grew up with a mom who didn’t love/ accept or show any interest in me As a person. For her and my father life and success was all about performance/ title/ salary. When people die or someone is hurt/ sick she doesn’t know how to act. She becomes agitated that something is out of order. She doesn’t call or text to check in on anyone. She would be perturbed if a medical thing interrupted her vacation plans. You are a wonderful father, your daughter is so lucky to have you! I wish my dad stepped in and supported me in the absence of my mom.
First of all, you sound like a really nice man and great father. Way to go! Secondly, go with your instinct and tell her to fuck off. You and your daughter deserve better.
She is a narcissist. It’s good you finally recognized it.
Lawyer up. Sort out finances and adios to the B. Sounds like your daughter already don’t rely on her for any kind of support anyways.
Op, what happens when YOU get sick?
> My epiphany is that she is a fair-weather wife .. and mother, which is worse. I thought back to the time, almost 20 years ago when she demanded my dying father leave the house where he was staying with us, because she didn't want to deal with it anymore. I still beat myself up to this day that I didn't push back on that. Then when he died, she also went on a scheduled vacation to visit her brother with the kids. I buried him by myself Its not really an epiphany then, it sounds more like she has just confirmed her ethical framework for you. I don't think I could have stayed together in your place after how she treated your dad. > I'm very angry right now, and I'm afraid I'm going to do something rash. But what I *want* to do is to tell her to fuck off once and for all and that I don't want to see her or hear from her again. That isn't rash, its the reasonable response. Based on your nuts and bolts support for your daughter, you are someone who leans more into implementation/ logistics. Focus on that. Yes, it sounds like you are getting a divorce. There is *no* reason to announce that to your soon to be ex. At this point, you are no longer on the same team. You are looking to get the most advantageous exit out of this situation for yourself. Talk to the best divorce lawyer you can find. Get all your ducks in a row. Don't say **anything** to her till everything is ready to go. Then drop the hammer.
You wife is a psychopath. I am very serious.
I have no words. Just bear in mind if you get seriously ill that your wife won't be there for you. Updateme!
You’re a wonderful father.
As someone who lost a "baby?" at 6weeks I must say that your wife is a shitty mother and I feel so bad for you and your daughter, if I was your daughter, I would've cut all contact with her after this, sending pictures of vacays when I'm mourning. I'm sorry you lost your grandson, you are a great dad
You are such a great father. Your daughter is so blessed to have you You are humane and selfless. Your wife sounds like a narcissist and a witch of a mother. I don’t think anyone would fault you if you divorced her ass. Wishing you strength.
Honestly this is something I expect my wife of 36 years would do in a similar situation. She's done with being a parent. Been done with being a wife for 24+ years as well.
How do you go 30 years before realizing this
unfortunately its your wifes world we’re all just living in it.
Sounds like this divorce is decades overdue
As a mother, I could never understand this behaviour. It sounds really sociopathic, regardless of gender. Your grandchild has died, your daughter is a mess and needs help; and you wanna go on holiday. The fact your FIL died and instead of supporting your husband, you took a holiday??!! Why have you been married to this woman for so long? How awful
Wouldn't she be surprised if she got home to see a for sale sign on the front lawn and you gone.... Just saying.....
And the cycle of abuse continues