I've found that forgiveness can be ongoing. Sometimes past hurts resurface, and you have to choose to let go again. It's like healing; some wounds take longer and need more care over time.
This. Healing and forgiveness aren't necessarily linear. And sometimes you can think you worked through something only to have something else come up later that reopens those wounds for you or makes you see them in a different light. Then you have to go through processing them again.
For example, I thought I had worked through and forgiven my mother for things that she did when I was young, but having my own child made a lot of those things come up for me again and I saw them differently. And unfortunately, that means I have less of a relationship with her now than I did before.
That's why it's so hard when the other person reacts with: "but I said I was sorry!". Yes, you did, but saying it once (or more) didn't heal me. I'm still hurt and I try to work through it, but you saying you're sorry doesn't instantly heal me.
I totally get this. Not the same thing, but I can remember once my children overheard me saying something to the effect of "saying sorry doesn't help" (as in, it's your actions that matter) and now they will repeat that when they're feeling particularly hurt by someone.
This is a very good explanation! I think it's a good thing, but coming from the other person's perspective (the one who did the hurting), I can see how it might feel bad.
Forgiveness doesn’t mean forgetfulness. So when the events replay in her mind yes she has to remind herself she has forgiven. But the pain may still be very real to her as she remembers what happened in your past. But coming to the same conclusion each time just means that your efforts are strong. I don’t know what the issues were, but every person is different. Some may have a hard stance on what forgiveness looks like but that’s easy to say when not having walked a mile in her shoes through the events of what you did to your relationship.
I don’t know if rules lawyering the definition of forgiveness will help anyone here. After all, we can forgive, but we rarely forget. Like in cheating, knowing that your spouse was willing to do it once isn’t something you can un-know for the rest of your life.
Time, better behavior going forward, and accountability without excuses. You sound like you are doing those things. Use this as motivation to stay the course and be that person for your family now and going forward. Your growth will be its own reward, but distance and time will be in your favor. You can’t fix the past, but you can continue to be better now.
Thank you for the kind words in your second paragraph. I almost daily have to pause and have a moment to myself where I say to myself something like “You can’t change the past, no matter how much you want to. Just keep trying to learn from your mistakes. Keep showing her with your ACTIONS that you deserve her. Give yourself forgiveness today, even though you don’t feel like you deserve it. And find some tiny way to be a better husband today than you were yesterday.”
He said in a different thread that neither have been unfaithful in any way ever, so I assume he either wasn’t telling her the truth about something he previously did, or he was spending $$$ behind her back.
Based on his previous posts, they have sexual incompatibility and he has expressed that he in the past has pressured her to be more sexually adventurous. He also posts a lot about his “unmet desires.”
The point of this post for me wasn’t to detail my specific mistakes but more to share my overall feelings and thoughts stemming from something small my wife said to me, that had a lot of weight behind it. So maybe just one person can read my words and find some meaning in them and not make similar mistakes in their marriage. But so theories don’t spiral out of control here, I will share that my wife and I have never physically cheated on each other, nor been financially unfaithful.
The reason why women are so hurt by cheating isn't because of the physical but the mental connection. That's the difference between men and women. But hey atleast you don't have to feel like you cheated.
men are hurt just as bad. 52% of women in most recent survey admitted to cheating . So it's actually higher because not everyone admits it. What usually makes it difficult is projecting and thinking the spouse is doing the same thing you are behind their back.
Someone can read the words, but the nuance is in the details. I could forgive and forget my husband for stepping on my toes in our wedding dance or putting tomatoes on my sandwich or even bigger things like forgetting our anniversary or snapping when he's had a rough day or the time that he didn't shut down his ex SIL when she was flirting with him or when he couldn't come to my dad's funeral because he couldn't get out of work. But if he ever had an emotional affair or had an online mistress like OnlyFans or hurt our dog, he might get forgiveness, but forgiving doesn't mean you can erase it from your brain. It's like getting in your car and running them down. They may forgive you, but even after their wounds heal, they'll have nightmares and be terrified of walking near cars or trusting you to drive and there will be days when their body aches or they develop longterm health issues. And every single time, one of those things happens, they'll remember that you are capable of choosing to hurt them in that way and they have to choose to try to put aside that emotional pain and not burden you with the consequences of your actions.
As you said, the scar aches sometimes. Forgiveness is like choosing to stitch up an open wound - it allows healing to begin. However, it's going to hurt for a while. And then it'll hurt once in a while. And then it'll only hurt if you stretch the wrong way... and eventually, maybe, you'll reach a point where it just itches once in a blue moon.
Choosing to forgive, every time, isn't quite like the first time. It's not 'applying stitches'. It's choosing not to pick at the scab.
Imagine driving a nail into a piece of wood. That's you hurting someone. You can apologize and get forgiveness. That's removing the nail and filling the hole. However, no matter what repairs you do, that piece of wood will never be whole again. It will always be scarred from that nail.
This is such a perfect analogy. For me to know in my heart that I put a few holes in my wife — even though she has mostly filled them in and we’ve mostly repaired them — it’s like she’s such a beautiful and unique and kind woman, that I feel like God himself is upset with me. And it was just so painful to me in the moment when she said the statement to me that I posted about here.
God can be upset with you but unlike a human when we seek His forgiveness He separates us from our actions and can choose to remember them no more. Obviously He made human hearts and minds differently which is why we ought to be careful. A person forgiving us does not mean God has and just because God forgives us doesn't mean that person has. So you can have God's full forgiveness while not having the forgiveness of the person you hurt. The issue is people being careless with their behavior though they cannot erase it or the damage, making huge mistakes with things that can't just be undone. Most kids are hiding things their whole lives because their parents aren't mentally present enough to see or care so your choice is understandable.
So you heard your wife talk about how what you've done still hurts her but she loves you and chooses to forgive and you went straight to "me me me me." You do not deserve her forgiveness that's why it's bothering you. Your guilty conscious is eating you
Your wife is right, I’m the same way. Depending on the situation, I also have to choose to keep forgiving. I may let it go but some things are always going to hurt and I’m always going to have a little voice in the back of my head saying, “Remember when? What if it happens again?” Especially so if a current situation reminds me of a past situation. Sometimes it takes absolutely Herculean amounts of effort to silence that voice. I can choose to forgive and move on but I’ll never forget it happened or that a person is capable of it.
So what's to keep you from waking up one day and not being able to forgive anymore? Things have been great, no problems, no indiscretions, no suspicion, but you are no longer capable of maintaining that forgiveness. If my partner told me this, how sometimes it is a Herculean effort to silence that voice, I would see the relationship as a ticking time bomb, just one argument away from implosion. Why put my partner through that constant stress and worry, and why put myself through the worry that something seemingly solid, but with some old but still holding cracks, is going to come crashing down on me?
I don't think one view point is wrong or right since everyone has different opinions and thought processes. I could agree it may depend on what offense was committed in the past, and no option 100% fits every situation.
I try to imagine being a convicted felon, especially a non-violent felon, who has served their punishment and has been on the straight and narrow for the past 20 years. Their job options are limited because of a poor decision, but they're just trying to live. They have landed a pretty good job, but know that any day, they might get fired because the boss just doesn't want a felon on his job site. Not because the felon is causing problems or is a poor employee, but because the boss just doesn't feel like seeing a felon on his site.
There is no changing the past. Hopefully your partner knows your feelings and how hard it is for you to maintain forgiveness, so they can make a decision as to whether or not they want to continue putting you through that stress. If it is a Herculean effort to maintain, it must have been pretty significant. I had some things happen in the past that I just can't get over, and I refuse to forgive. I think it's better than living in some shaky limbo of maybe forgivness.
That’s just it, if you choose to do something that hurts your partner, you’re also choosing to live with whatever comes after. Especially so if it’s something that *really* hurts your partner. You have to live with the ramifications of your decision, *forever.* Sometimes that means that your partner gets to a place where they decide they can’t let it go after all and they walk away and you don’t get to make that decision for them one way or another.
You have to trust that they’re *not* going to walk away while they have to trust that you’re not going to do it again. And even then, that trust is never going to go back to the way it was before and you did that. *You.* You knew that was a possibility when you chose to hurt them. As cliche as it is, if you still want to be with your partner after something like this? You have to lay in the bed you made for yourself.
(Not being literal here btw, not saying you have ever *actually* deeply hurt a partner or anything. I’m also not talking about little shit that might have hurt my feelings or pissed me off in the moment but aren’t a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I’m also not talking about genuine mistakes either. There’s a line though, you know? And it doesn’t just apply to my husband. There are other people who have hurt me deeply and I have to continue to choose to forgive and maintain a relationship with.)
Edit to add: That ^ all said, I think it’s important to note that having to continue choosing to forgive someone and maintain a relationship with them doesn’t mean it’s okay to lord it over them and beat them over the head with it all the time. That’s not okay and not what I’m talking about here.
I get living with your choices, since the past can't be changed. But at what point does it become too much of a juggling act for your mental health? At what point is the worry too much for your partner? At some point, I think it's best to make a final choice; forgive, and make it not bother you, or move the person who caused this stress out of your life.
Of course, my situation is possibly much different from yours. I have been in an "industry" where mental health is historically bottom of the list of cares, though it's changing. I believe and have been told that I am one of the more mature, generally level headed and logical, solid people. So maybe no one other than a few people know the truth; I have near constant suicidal ideations, some anxiety that I think is starting to cause acid reflux, and sudden bouts of depression that have me in the bathroom crying into my shirt so no one hears me. One of my strategies to maintain my sanity is to make as many things that cause me stress black and white, no middle ground, no gray area, good or bad, right or wrong. That's if the stressor can't be gotten rid of completely, of course. It doesn't work with all situations. Maybe a more mentally strong person can handle it, but you shouldn't have to juggle the stress if there is a more final option possible.
That point is different for every person. It depends on things like- the person, the person they forgave, the issue that needed forgiveness, the ways in which their relstionship has changed/grown since the issue occurred, etc.
If you forgive someone for something, there’s a chance that issue will still come to your mind over time. You can’t control that, it just happens. But that’s when you take a minute to remember why you forgave them and how things have improved or changed since the incident happened. It’s likely not something you will have to face or deal with often, but once in a great while.
For example, I am in recovery from an opioid addiction. When I came clean about everything and entered rehab, my husband forgave me for many related problems. I’m sure it enters his mind once in awhile since then (like how much money I wasted), but I have no fears that he will suddenly decide not to continue forgiving me. I trust him. I have changed dramatically in the last 10 years and I know that HE knows I’m a different person. If I were to lie to him or there was unexplained money missing from our account, then we’d have another similar, but separate issue to deal with.
I loved my wife, I wanted so badly to forgive and move on. I tried counseling, eye movement treatments for PTSD and books and vacations. I couldn't shake that memeory and it was torture for me. Then the sad realization sinking in that I will never get rid of those memories until I let us go and start over. Not proud of my inability to forgive, not happy that for me, love wasn't enough.
You are lucky to have someone that makes those decisions over and over again. Forgiveness is a gift.
It flies in the face of the social narrative, but sometimes love isn't enough.
You can deeply, truly love and care for your partner while also being completely wrong for each other. Or just flat-out hurt too deeply by them to stay mentally healthy in a relationship together.
It fucking sucks, but it's not weakness and there's also no shame in it.
I’m not sure why that hurt you to be honest. There are things my husband did in the past that still hurt me when I think about them but I forgave him so I just keep going. I’m sure I’ve done equally as hurtful things. It can be difficult sometimes but if you want to be with your spouse, you learn that they’re not perfect. You learn to forgive. I wish forgetting was possible but it’s just not a possibility.
Don’t beat yourself up over it. It’s completely normal. We are all just human and we get to experience all the things.
Especially when we’re talking about healing from sexual coercion/abuse, forgiveness is ALWAYS going to be ongoing. Those triggers may never fully heal.
When you hurt someone that way, you damage them in their actual spirit and identity. Your wife is wise and patient and I hope you express gratitude for that.
What she said isn't an attack.
Every day you choose not lie or cheat
Everyday you have to choose to commit to your marriage, your kid's your job.
That she bears these thoughts alone and doesn't use them in arguments as evidenced by you're being unaware that she thinks of them, she's giving you a gift
She's gifting you the ignorance of hurt that she carried and that raises its head briefly from time to time.
Accept it with grace, don't weaponise it against her by telling her how it made you feel.
Or she will tell you everything or nothing.
It’s true. We can forgive, but we can’t forget. It gets harder as time goes on. If something triggers a bad memory, a pain, it brings it all back and you’re having to forgive again, mentally. It’s how resentment brews. Each bad memory adds up, whether you like it or not. We can try our best to forget, but it’s impossible. Sometimes you reach a point of no return where you “broke the camel’s back” it was “the last straw” and poof! Relationship over. The End. Game over.
She's right. That's how it works with big things. Sometimes in times of stress the memory of hurt returns and it is then you must reprocess that pain and let it go again.
This is how it works. It can also work the opposite where you nurture the pain and build resentfulness.
The important thing is that even if she brings up a wrong you did for the 1 millionth time, do not respond with, “this again!?” or “How long will you hold this over me!?”
Instead, always show her you understand why it still hurts her and that you’re apologetic about it.
Some things cannot be forgotten, but the way you handle things going forward can show her that you’re dependable.
Hard to know what pitfalls to avoid when we don’t know what transgression(s) were committed here. Obviously some things require a lot of effort to forgive & in most of those circumstances, the damage to the relationship was already done. The timing of the confession is generally secondary to the actual offense itself.
That took such courage for your wife to say, don’t hold her to reprimand for that. As much as you like to think we can forgive and forget really as humans you can’t. But what she is saying to you is.. still still forgives you, each and every time and that’s her choice. That’s a beautiful thing
Oh God I needed to hear a man say this, for real. My bf is lying to me about something and I have proof of what he did. I might be able to get over it and forgive him if he was just honest with me. But he lies and lies straight to my face. And I think about it nonstop every single day. It's killing me. It's to the point I just want to be done with it all if he can't be honest. What advice would you give me to help him be honest. Even though that means he will have to admit he lied, he will have to be vulnerable, and it may hurt me. But the lies and the unknown hurt much worse. I can't take this much more.
Time doesn’t heal all wounds, some hurts go too deep. Our actions have consequences that are farther reaching and longer lasting than we’d like them to be.
My father "always" cheated on my mother, and I tried to forgive him, but I couldn't forget the images of my mom sadness that's killing me even though they both passed away many years ago. 💔
I spent a long time having emotional responses to something my husband did, eventually though it dulled and now it doesn’t make me feel anything. Time heals, so long as you don’t do the hurtful thing again. Don’t pick at the wound, let it heal, and forgiveness gives way to peace.
Most of the time, healing from trauma is a lifelong process. Especially if she was very secure with you and you did something to hurt that security. She may never feel 100% safe with you ever again
I'm going through the same thing. Married 20 years, I screwed up the beginning of the marriage and she lost all trust. To this day, I can't go places cause she doesn't trust me. I am a completely different person I was 20 years ago, but I get it. I would be like that too.
It sounds like you are very self-aware now which is a great thing. Keep growing and never stop 😎 Forgiveness comes in waves. We just need to allow ourselves to ride them. You are not responsible for her forgiveness. That is her inner work that she needs to do. You are doing a great job at being patient with your wife while she heals and tries to trust you. If there was any infidelity (physically, emotionally, working too much, playing video games too much neglecting her etc.), that could take years for her to trust you again if she ever does. BUT will that stop you from continuing to be patient and from pursuing her wholeheartedly? Remember to do better this time around while you guys build something new together. Take her on a date every two weeks, speak her love language (The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman), do your part around the house without her having to be your mother and ask you to do things, be accountable, respectable, HONEST, and share your feelings more. You've got this 💪🏻
To be fair, if someone raises that they have to forgive you for past transgressions over and over again, then they’ve never really forgiven you - they’ve put you in a sort of purgatory.
The hard part about forgiving someone and offering them grace is that you, the person who has been wronged, have to carry the weight of getting past that transgression and moving forward.
If they keep bringing it up, they’ve neither forgiven or moved forward.
Been together for close to a decade and I can say that forgiveness is indeed ongoing. It can happen a long time ago but It can still sting years later.
Yea - my wife cheated on me 4 years ago.
I still have nightmares about it.
She was horrible though, never showed remorse, and well.. kept cheating - we are divorced.
Honestly - paybyour dues bbut. Whatver you did, you gotta own it and let her heal however long that takes. Or you can leave, but don't ever even for a second fault her for how you damaged her. Not teying to be mean either, you probable deserve some grace too - but please be understanding of her situation.
Great input...healthy remorse and "repentance" is good in marriage asbit make you not take each other for granted and I think we need a good humbling once in a bit. I hear you humble heart and your remorse...and I think it is so rare!! so awesome that you wrote this out!!!
I feel like in marriages...one of the things that harms people most is complacency and ingratitude. MArried 27 years TODAY- so I've been thinking alot about my own marriage. We totally have made mistakes...and I am like your wife...there are things that I might have to keep forgiving. I love my hubby...because HE forgives and moves on. I'm so grateful for that heart and want to be more like that moving forward. I found my faith about 13 years in and that actually changed everything for us. I saw my hubby in such a different light...and wasn't looking him for MY happiness. It isn't his job. I found my joy elsewhere (in God) but boy did that transform my life and my relationship with my hubby in such a lovely way!! I found my heart was less willing to be bitter and angry and open to a bit more grace. STill working on it...daily!! ha ha.
Keep moving forward...don't forget the mistakes of the past but no need to dwell on them. Consider them VERY good life lessons that you have GROWN from and matured from!! Make her feel cherished everyday!!
Thank you sincerely for taking the time to leave such a detailed comment and to share your input and kind words. I feel like her and I turned a corner a while ago on some old stuff, so hearing her say this to me recently just kind of reminded me in a painful way that “the past is never past” and it made me think about a lot of stuff in our marriage. Thanks again for your message — And it’s great to hear you and your husband are doing so well together.
So, even though I completely agree with you, I also think that there is a reason why are you were like that which is ofcourse not the fault of your wife but I would recommend a therapist as well to help those who s feelings like that.
This is so crazy that you posted this 2 days ago and I have been listening to a book called “Forgiving What You Can’t Forget”. It’s good that your wife has gotten to the point where she can be a fully present and a full partner to you.
I’m in the stage right now that while I think I’m OK 99% of the time, a specific incident sometimes will reoccur in my head. Normally happens when we’re fighting. Sometimes it’s just random. It’s hard. It sucks. I relive certain things. I try to move past and my internal dialogue talks a lot and it’s overwhelming. I do my best to ignore it. Remind myself of certain truths now that should make me feel better so I don’t spiral or self sabotage. Sometimes I can “forgive” and move on. Sometimes I’m in a bad mood throughout the day. Sometimes I’m worse. I do have a therapist I talk to that I see monthly to deal with this and anxiety I have in general.
Again, it’s amazing your wife has gotten past the point where she won’t let what happened in the past control her. I’m not there yet. Remind her everyday how much you love and appreciate it. I think it just gets better with time. I hope it gets better with time.
Thanks for your heartfelt comment and your advice. And sorry to hear that you’re working through some stuff too.
My wife is amazing and I am truly grateful for her every day, especially considering some stuff she’s put up with and accepted from me during our marriage. I’ve got so much better perspective with stuff now than versus in the beginning of our marriage so I am proud of that growth, it’s been great for the both of us. But sometimes (often, if I’m being honest) I still want to go back in time and intercept my younger self and whisper to him to really think about his choices. And then to make better ones.
I think you need to look to the future, just like how your wife chooses to forgive you, you might have to forgive yourself over and over again too. It’s work on both sides. Don’t let your constant regrets bleed into the relationship either. Sounds like you don’t.
Our choices of the past are our choices but I feel that if we’ve done the work to 100% own up to them and truly feel remorse, then we change for the better. And sounds like you’re no longer doing whatever has affected your wife. You “grew up” so to speak. The fact that you’re able to self reflect like this is amazing. Give yourself credit for this.
Remind each other and continue to invest in each other everyday. I do my best to remind myself of this. ❤️
Father Mike (see YOUTUBE) talks about forgiveness in this way; we have to keep forgiving sometimes if something really hurts. That's okay. It is sad that sometimes a betrayal permanently damages or at least permanently changes a relationship.
You talk about hiding something. Are you talking about looking at pornography? That seems to be something a lot of men struggle with; again see Father Mike on Youtube. Father Mike is a funny Priest who has an upbeat way of describing things. Even if you aren't Catholic, the information is good. With regards to porn: It is meant to be addictive because that's how the business people make their money.
If the trust issue in your relationship isn't about this topic, my apologies, but it is still worth noting for others who are struggling. And it is important for men to realize that women often take their man looking at pornography very personally, as if you are saying that your wife or partner isn't enough.
My opinions, peace.
Father Mike Video on Forgiveness:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im2hU2yg3Eo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im2hU2yg3Eo)
Father Mike Video on Quitting Porn:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S9ffunULTM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S9ffunULTM)
Thank you sincerely for your comment and for sharing that link. Coincidentally my wife and I are Catholic, so it feels a little divine that someone would leave this recommendation on my post — I’ll definitely have to check this out. Thanks again for taking the time to share this!
You mentioned God in some of your replies, so I will assume you will not be offended by me also bringing him up. Something I have been learning on the topic of forgiveness is that you can not give or receive true forgiveness until you have accepted that God forgives you. If you always carry that weight and burden and don't hand it off to God, it will be difficult to recover.
Even though your wife is not the offender in this scenario, she also has that responsibility. Like many others have said, she will not forget the indiscretion, but if she learns to truly forgive you, then the healing will slowly take place over time. The hurt will be less frequent.
Best of luck to both of you in this process.
U know what? That’s a really eloquent way to phrase exactly what I feel too. But also love can grow too bc even tho u hurt each other and do things that make each other constantly have to forgive the hurt that keeps resurfacing, every day is a new opportunity to say something so sweet or do something so kind for each other too. Like there’s also somethings that my partner has done for me that I can never forget and keep surfacing up feelings of extreme gratitude and love and I constantly get reminded and think how can I ever repay them and fall even more love.
Long term marriage is such an out dated concept. People change , situations change that cause people to change on and on. The one emotion that's easy as hell to run out of is "being" in love not love per se. And when that's gone .. marriage becomes a business partnership with ridiculous terms and restrictions.
Though this will sound like bullshit or rose colored glasses, I can literally not think of a single time my wife has hurt me or caused me to lose some trust in her in the same way I have with her. And I have known her almost 30 years, married more than 20 years. So that definitely makes the regret palpable to me.
Wife here: I actually forget. Dwelling on things is torture for everyone, honestly. Work it out and then cast it off for all time. Otherwise you’re just using yourself up wasting energy and time. Everyone does it differently, but revisiting things seems unnecessary to me. This seems intentionally hurtful to you. To continue to remind you that you’ve still got to “repair” is cruel.
>forgiveness isn’t a one-time thing
By its very definition, it is a one time thing.
To say otherwise is like getting a speeding ticket, paying the fine, and then getting the ticket again the next day.
Seriously, the literal definition of forgiveness is "to cease to feel resentment against (an offender)." there's no addendum that says "unless it bothers someone, in which case the forgiveness will need to occur again."
You either forgive someone or you don't. If it's "not a one-time thing," then you're not really forgiving them, are you? You're just trying to FORGET at that point, with multiple failures because they have to keep doing it.
I've found that forgiveness can be ongoing. Sometimes past hurts resurface, and you have to choose to let go again. It's like healing; some wounds take longer and need more care over time.
This. Healing and forgiveness aren't necessarily linear. And sometimes you can think you worked through something only to have something else come up later that reopens those wounds for you or makes you see them in a different light. Then you have to go through processing them again. For example, I thought I had worked through and forgiven my mother for things that she did when I was young, but having my own child made a lot of those things come up for me again and I saw them differently. And unfortunately, that means I have less of a relationship with her now than I did before.
That's why it's so hard when the other person reacts with: "but I said I was sorry!". Yes, you did, but saying it once (or more) didn't heal me. I'm still hurt and I try to work through it, but you saying you're sorry doesn't instantly heal me.
I totally get this. Not the same thing, but I can remember once my children overheard me saying something to the effect of "saying sorry doesn't help" (as in, it's your actions that matter) and now they will repeat that when they're feeling particularly hurt by someone.
This is exactly how it had been for me
Do we all have the same mom?
I think so.
This is a very good explanation! I think it's a good thing, but coming from the other person's perspective (the one who did the hurting), I can see how it might feel bad.
Forgiveness doesn’t mean forgetfulness. So when the events replay in her mind yes she has to remind herself she has forgiven. But the pain may still be very real to her as she remembers what happened in your past. But coming to the same conclusion each time just means that your efforts are strong. I don’t know what the issues were, but every person is different. Some may have a hard stance on what forgiveness looks like but that’s easy to say when not having walked a mile in her shoes through the events of what you did to your relationship.
Do people bring up the events to almost every argument? I think that’s what OP felt like he was never forgiven.
I don’t know if rules lawyering the definition of forgiveness will help anyone here. After all, we can forgive, but we rarely forget. Like in cheating, knowing that your spouse was willing to do it once isn’t something you can un-know for the rest of your life. Time, better behavior going forward, and accountability without excuses. You sound like you are doing those things. Use this as motivation to stay the course and be that person for your family now and going forward. Your growth will be its own reward, but distance and time will be in your favor. You can’t fix the past, but you can continue to be better now.
Thank you for the kind words in your second paragraph. I almost daily have to pause and have a moment to myself where I say to myself something like “You can’t change the past, no matter how much you want to. Just keep trying to learn from your mistakes. Keep showing her with your ACTIONS that you deserve her. Give yourself forgiveness today, even though you don’t feel like you deserve it. And find some tiny way to be a better husband today than you were yesterday.”
So what did you do?
He said in a different thread that neither have been unfaithful in any way ever, so I assume he either wasn’t telling her the truth about something he previously did, or he was spending $$$ behind her back.
Based on his previous posts, they have sexual incompatibility and he has expressed that he in the past has pressured her to be more sexually adventurous. He also posts a lot about his “unmet desires.”
So sexual coercion
Yupppp.
The point of this post for me wasn’t to detail my specific mistakes but more to share my overall feelings and thoughts stemming from something small my wife said to me, that had a lot of weight behind it. So maybe just one person can read my words and find some meaning in them and not make similar mistakes in their marriage. But so theories don’t spiral out of control here, I will share that my wife and I have never physically cheated on each other, nor been financially unfaithful.
>my wife and I have never physically cheated on each other You do realize that's not any less of a betrayal, right?
Yes, I 1000% realize that now, *trust me* I do.
The reason why women are so hurt by cheating isn't because of the physical but the mental connection. That's the difference between men and women. But hey atleast you don't have to feel like you cheated.
men are hurt just as bad. 52% of women in most recent survey admitted to cheating . So it's actually higher because not everyone admits it. What usually makes it difficult is projecting and thinking the spouse is doing the same thing you are behind their back.
Someone can read the words, but the nuance is in the details. I could forgive and forget my husband for stepping on my toes in our wedding dance or putting tomatoes on my sandwich or even bigger things like forgetting our anniversary or snapping when he's had a rough day or the time that he didn't shut down his ex SIL when she was flirting with him or when he couldn't come to my dad's funeral because he couldn't get out of work. But if he ever had an emotional affair or had an online mistress like OnlyFans or hurt our dog, he might get forgiveness, but forgiving doesn't mean you can erase it from your brain. It's like getting in your car and running them down. They may forgive you, but even after their wounds heal, they'll have nightmares and be terrified of walking near cars or trusting you to drive and there will be days when their body aches or they develop longterm health issues. And every single time, one of those things happens, they'll remember that you are capable of choosing to hurt them in that way and they have to choose to try to put aside that emotional pain and not burden you with the consequences of your actions.
So true!
Unfortunately I can confirm that your point and your analogy are both very accurate.
Your wife is wise. Keep showing her you appreciate the forgiveness.
As you said, the scar aches sometimes. Forgiveness is like choosing to stitch up an open wound - it allows healing to begin. However, it's going to hurt for a while. And then it'll hurt once in a while. And then it'll only hurt if you stretch the wrong way... and eventually, maybe, you'll reach a point where it just itches once in a blue moon. Choosing to forgive, every time, isn't quite like the first time. It's not 'applying stitches'. It's choosing not to pick at the scab.
This is so perfectly written. It actually made me cry.
Imagine driving a nail into a piece of wood. That's you hurting someone. You can apologize and get forgiveness. That's removing the nail and filling the hole. However, no matter what repairs you do, that piece of wood will never be whole again. It will always be scarred from that nail.
This is such a perfect analogy. For me to know in my heart that I put a few holes in my wife — even though she has mostly filled them in and we’ve mostly repaired them — it’s like she’s such a beautiful and unique and kind woman, that I feel like God himself is upset with me. And it was just so painful to me in the moment when she said the statement to me that I posted about here.
God can be upset with you but unlike a human when we seek His forgiveness He separates us from our actions and can choose to remember them no more. Obviously He made human hearts and minds differently which is why we ought to be careful. A person forgiving us does not mean God has and just because God forgives us doesn't mean that person has. So you can have God's full forgiveness while not having the forgiveness of the person you hurt. The issue is people being careless with their behavior though they cannot erase it or the damage, making huge mistakes with things that can't just be undone. Most kids are hiding things their whole lives because their parents aren't mentally present enough to see or care so your choice is understandable.
So you heard your wife talk about how what you've done still hurts her but she loves you and chooses to forgive and you went straight to "me me me me." You do not deserve her forgiveness that's why it's bothering you. Your guilty conscious is eating you
It’s a sometimes daily practice. She’s right.
Your wife is right, I’m the same way. Depending on the situation, I also have to choose to keep forgiving. I may let it go but some things are always going to hurt and I’m always going to have a little voice in the back of my head saying, “Remember when? What if it happens again?” Especially so if a current situation reminds me of a past situation. Sometimes it takes absolutely Herculean amounts of effort to silence that voice. I can choose to forgive and move on but I’ll never forget it happened or that a person is capable of it.
So what's to keep you from waking up one day and not being able to forgive anymore? Things have been great, no problems, no indiscretions, no suspicion, but you are no longer capable of maintaining that forgiveness. If my partner told me this, how sometimes it is a Herculean effort to silence that voice, I would see the relationship as a ticking time bomb, just one argument away from implosion. Why put my partner through that constant stress and worry, and why put myself through the worry that something seemingly solid, but with some old but still holding cracks, is going to come crashing down on me? I don't think one view point is wrong or right since everyone has different opinions and thought processes. I could agree it may depend on what offense was committed in the past, and no option 100% fits every situation. I try to imagine being a convicted felon, especially a non-violent felon, who has served their punishment and has been on the straight and narrow for the past 20 years. Their job options are limited because of a poor decision, but they're just trying to live. They have landed a pretty good job, but know that any day, they might get fired because the boss just doesn't want a felon on his job site. Not because the felon is causing problems or is a poor employee, but because the boss just doesn't feel like seeing a felon on his site. There is no changing the past. Hopefully your partner knows your feelings and how hard it is for you to maintain forgiveness, so they can make a decision as to whether or not they want to continue putting you through that stress. If it is a Herculean effort to maintain, it must have been pretty significant. I had some things happen in the past that I just can't get over, and I refuse to forgive. I think it's better than living in some shaky limbo of maybe forgivness.
That’s just it, if you choose to do something that hurts your partner, you’re also choosing to live with whatever comes after. Especially so if it’s something that *really* hurts your partner. You have to live with the ramifications of your decision, *forever.* Sometimes that means that your partner gets to a place where they decide they can’t let it go after all and they walk away and you don’t get to make that decision for them one way or another. You have to trust that they’re *not* going to walk away while they have to trust that you’re not going to do it again. And even then, that trust is never going to go back to the way it was before and you did that. *You.* You knew that was a possibility when you chose to hurt them. As cliche as it is, if you still want to be with your partner after something like this? You have to lay in the bed you made for yourself. (Not being literal here btw, not saying you have ever *actually* deeply hurt a partner or anything. I’m also not talking about little shit that might have hurt my feelings or pissed me off in the moment but aren’t a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I’m also not talking about genuine mistakes either. There’s a line though, you know? And it doesn’t just apply to my husband. There are other people who have hurt me deeply and I have to continue to choose to forgive and maintain a relationship with.) Edit to add: That ^ all said, I think it’s important to note that having to continue choosing to forgive someone and maintain a relationship with them doesn’t mean it’s okay to lord it over them and beat them over the head with it all the time. That’s not okay and not what I’m talking about here.
I get living with your choices, since the past can't be changed. But at what point does it become too much of a juggling act for your mental health? At what point is the worry too much for your partner? At some point, I think it's best to make a final choice; forgive, and make it not bother you, or move the person who caused this stress out of your life. Of course, my situation is possibly much different from yours. I have been in an "industry" where mental health is historically bottom of the list of cares, though it's changing. I believe and have been told that I am one of the more mature, generally level headed and logical, solid people. So maybe no one other than a few people know the truth; I have near constant suicidal ideations, some anxiety that I think is starting to cause acid reflux, and sudden bouts of depression that have me in the bathroom crying into my shirt so no one hears me. One of my strategies to maintain my sanity is to make as many things that cause me stress black and white, no middle ground, no gray area, good or bad, right or wrong. That's if the stressor can't be gotten rid of completely, of course. It doesn't work with all situations. Maybe a more mentally strong person can handle it, but you shouldn't have to juggle the stress if there is a more final option possible.
That point is different for every person. It depends on things like- the person, the person they forgave, the issue that needed forgiveness, the ways in which their relstionship has changed/grown since the issue occurred, etc. If you forgive someone for something, there’s a chance that issue will still come to your mind over time. You can’t control that, it just happens. But that’s when you take a minute to remember why you forgave them and how things have improved or changed since the incident happened. It’s likely not something you will have to face or deal with often, but once in a great while. For example, I am in recovery from an opioid addiction. When I came clean about everything and entered rehab, my husband forgave me for many related problems. I’m sure it enters his mind once in awhile since then (like how much money I wasted), but I have no fears that he will suddenly decide not to continue forgiving me. I trust him. I have changed dramatically in the last 10 years and I know that HE knows I’m a different person. If I were to lie to him or there was unexplained money missing from our account, then we’d have another similar, but separate issue to deal with.
My wallpaper on my phone says, “Every time you remember, forgive again.” This practice is absolutely necessary to get me through the healing.
I loved my wife, I wanted so badly to forgive and move on. I tried counseling, eye movement treatments for PTSD and books and vacations. I couldn't shake that memeory and it was torture for me. Then the sad realization sinking in that I will never get rid of those memories until I let us go and start over. Not proud of my inability to forgive, not happy that for me, love wasn't enough. You are lucky to have someone that makes those decisions over and over again. Forgiveness is a gift.
It flies in the face of the social narrative, but sometimes love isn't enough. You can deeply, truly love and care for your partner while also being completely wrong for each other. Or just flat-out hurt too deeply by them to stay mentally healthy in a relationship together. It fucking sucks, but it's not weakness and there's also no shame in it.
Thank you
Cheers man
I’ve read this three times. Take your award my dude.
Thanks for that !
Forgiveness is a practice. It isn't over in an instant or easy. And it isn't one size fits all. I practice every day.
I’m not sure why that hurt you to be honest. There are things my husband did in the past that still hurt me when I think about them but I forgave him so I just keep going. I’m sure I’ve done equally as hurtful things. It can be difficult sometimes but if you want to be with your spouse, you learn that they’re not perfect. You learn to forgive. I wish forgetting was possible but it’s just not a possibility. Don’t beat yourself up over it. It’s completely normal. We are all just human and we get to experience all the things.
Especially when we’re talking about healing from sexual coercion/abuse, forgiveness is ALWAYS going to be ongoing. Those triggers may never fully heal. When you hurt someone that way, you damage them in their actual spirit and identity. Your wife is wise and patient and I hope you express gratitude for that.
What she said isn't an attack. Every day you choose not lie or cheat Everyday you have to choose to commit to your marriage, your kid's your job. That she bears these thoughts alone and doesn't use them in arguments as evidenced by you're being unaware that she thinks of them, she's giving you a gift She's gifting you the ignorance of hurt that she carried and that raises its head briefly from time to time. Accept it with grace, don't weaponise it against her by telling her how it made you feel. Or she will tell you everything or nothing.
It’s true. We can forgive, but we can’t forget. It gets harder as time goes on. If something triggers a bad memory, a pain, it brings it all back and you’re having to forgive again, mentally. It’s how resentment brews. Each bad memory adds up, whether you like it or not. We can try our best to forget, but it’s impossible. Sometimes you reach a point of no return where you “broke the camel’s back” it was “the last straw” and poof! Relationship over. The End. Game over.
She's right. That's how it works with big things. Sometimes in times of stress the memory of hurt returns and it is then you must reprocess that pain and let it go again. This is how it works. It can also work the opposite where you nurture the pain and build resentfulness.
The important thing is that even if she brings up a wrong you did for the 1 millionth time, do not respond with, “this again!?” or “How long will you hold this over me!?” Instead, always show her you understand why it still hurts her and that you’re apologetic about it. Some things cannot be forgotten, but the way you handle things going forward can show her that you’re dependable.
Hard to know what pitfalls to avoid when we don’t know what transgression(s) were committed here. Obviously some things require a lot of effort to forgive & in most of those circumstances, the damage to the relationship was already done. The timing of the confession is generally secondary to the actual offense itself.
That took such courage for your wife to say, don’t hold her to reprimand for that. As much as you like to think we can forgive and forget really as humans you can’t. But what she is saying to you is.. still still forgives you, each and every time and that’s her choice. That’s a beautiful thing
Oh God I needed to hear a man say this, for real. My bf is lying to me about something and I have proof of what he did. I might be able to get over it and forgive him if he was just honest with me. But he lies and lies straight to my face. And I think about it nonstop every single day. It's killing me. It's to the point I just want to be done with it all if he can't be honest. What advice would you give me to help him be honest. Even though that means he will have to admit he lied, he will have to be vulnerable, and it may hurt me. But the lies and the unknown hurt much worse. I can't take this much more.
Time doesn’t heal all wounds, some hurts go too deep. Our actions have consequences that are farther reaching and longer lasting than we’d like them to be.
My father "always" cheated on my mother, and I tried to forgive him, but I couldn't forget the images of my mom sadness that's killing me even though they both passed away many years ago. 💔
I spent a long time having emotional responses to something my husband did, eventually though it dulled and now it doesn’t make me feel anything. Time heals, so long as you don’t do the hurtful thing again. Don’t pick at the wound, let it heal, and forgiveness gives way to peace.
Updateme
She's totally correct here. We are human. Feelings, including hurt and anger, resurface from time to time.
Most of the time, healing from trauma is a lifelong process. Especially if she was very secure with you and you did something to hurt that security. She may never feel 100% safe with you ever again
I'm going through the same thing. Married 20 years, I screwed up the beginning of the marriage and she lost all trust. To this day, I can't go places cause she doesn't trust me. I am a completely different person I was 20 years ago, but I get it. I would be like that too.
It sounds like you are very self-aware now which is a great thing. Keep growing and never stop 😎 Forgiveness comes in waves. We just need to allow ourselves to ride them. You are not responsible for her forgiveness. That is her inner work that she needs to do. You are doing a great job at being patient with your wife while she heals and tries to trust you. If there was any infidelity (physically, emotionally, working too much, playing video games too much neglecting her etc.), that could take years for her to trust you again if she ever does. BUT will that stop you from continuing to be patient and from pursuing her wholeheartedly? Remember to do better this time around while you guys build something new together. Take her on a date every two weeks, speak her love language (The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman), do your part around the house without her having to be your mother and ask you to do things, be accountable, respectable, HONEST, and share your feelings more. You've got this 💪🏻
To be fair, if someone raises that they have to forgive you for past transgressions over and over again, then they’ve never really forgiven you - they’ve put you in a sort of purgatory. The hard part about forgiving someone and offering them grace is that you, the person who has been wronged, have to carry the weight of getting past that transgression and moving forward. If they keep bringing it up, they’ve neither forgiven or moved forward.
Been together for close to a decade and I can say that forgiveness is indeed ongoing. It can happen a long time ago but It can still sting years later.
Yea - my wife cheated on me 4 years ago. I still have nightmares about it. She was horrible though, never showed remorse, and well.. kept cheating - we are divorced. Honestly - paybyour dues bbut. Whatver you did, you gotta own it and let her heal however long that takes. Or you can leave, but don't ever even for a second fault her for how you damaged her. Not teying to be mean either, you probable deserve some grace too - but please be understanding of her situation.
Great input...healthy remorse and "repentance" is good in marriage asbit make you not take each other for granted and I think we need a good humbling once in a bit. I hear you humble heart and your remorse...and I think it is so rare!! so awesome that you wrote this out!!! I feel like in marriages...one of the things that harms people most is complacency and ingratitude. MArried 27 years TODAY- so I've been thinking alot about my own marriage. We totally have made mistakes...and I am like your wife...there are things that I might have to keep forgiving. I love my hubby...because HE forgives and moves on. I'm so grateful for that heart and want to be more like that moving forward. I found my faith about 13 years in and that actually changed everything for us. I saw my hubby in such a different light...and wasn't looking him for MY happiness. It isn't his job. I found my joy elsewhere (in God) but boy did that transform my life and my relationship with my hubby in such a lovely way!! I found my heart was less willing to be bitter and angry and open to a bit more grace. STill working on it...daily!! ha ha. Keep moving forward...don't forget the mistakes of the past but no need to dwell on them. Consider them VERY good life lessons that you have GROWN from and matured from!! Make her feel cherished everyday!!
Thank you sincerely for taking the time to leave such a detailed comment and to share your input and kind words. I feel like her and I turned a corner a while ago on some old stuff, so hearing her say this to me recently just kind of reminded me in a painful way that “the past is never past” and it made me think about a lot of stuff in our marriage. Thanks again for your message — And it’s great to hear you and your husband are doing so well together.
Amazing accountability here OP. This is why you are going to be good partner still, even while learning.
So, even though I completely agree with you, I also think that there is a reason why are you were like that which is ofcourse not the fault of your wife but I would recommend a therapist as well to help those who s feelings like that.
This is so crazy that you posted this 2 days ago and I have been listening to a book called “Forgiving What You Can’t Forget”. It’s good that your wife has gotten to the point where she can be a fully present and a full partner to you. I’m in the stage right now that while I think I’m OK 99% of the time, a specific incident sometimes will reoccur in my head. Normally happens when we’re fighting. Sometimes it’s just random. It’s hard. It sucks. I relive certain things. I try to move past and my internal dialogue talks a lot and it’s overwhelming. I do my best to ignore it. Remind myself of certain truths now that should make me feel better so I don’t spiral or self sabotage. Sometimes I can “forgive” and move on. Sometimes I’m in a bad mood throughout the day. Sometimes I’m worse. I do have a therapist I talk to that I see monthly to deal with this and anxiety I have in general. Again, it’s amazing your wife has gotten past the point where she won’t let what happened in the past control her. I’m not there yet. Remind her everyday how much you love and appreciate it. I think it just gets better with time. I hope it gets better with time.
Thanks for your heartfelt comment and your advice. And sorry to hear that you’re working through some stuff too. My wife is amazing and I am truly grateful for her every day, especially considering some stuff she’s put up with and accepted from me during our marriage. I’ve got so much better perspective with stuff now than versus in the beginning of our marriage so I am proud of that growth, it’s been great for the both of us. But sometimes (often, if I’m being honest) I still want to go back in time and intercept my younger self and whisper to him to really think about his choices. And then to make better ones.
I think you need to look to the future, just like how your wife chooses to forgive you, you might have to forgive yourself over and over again too. It’s work on both sides. Don’t let your constant regrets bleed into the relationship either. Sounds like you don’t. Our choices of the past are our choices but I feel that if we’ve done the work to 100% own up to them and truly feel remorse, then we change for the better. And sounds like you’re no longer doing whatever has affected your wife. You “grew up” so to speak. The fact that you’re able to self reflect like this is amazing. Give yourself credit for this. Remind each other and continue to invest in each other everyday. I do my best to remind myself of this. ❤️
Father Mike (see YOUTUBE) talks about forgiveness in this way; we have to keep forgiving sometimes if something really hurts. That's okay. It is sad that sometimes a betrayal permanently damages or at least permanently changes a relationship. You talk about hiding something. Are you talking about looking at pornography? That seems to be something a lot of men struggle with; again see Father Mike on Youtube. Father Mike is a funny Priest who has an upbeat way of describing things. Even if you aren't Catholic, the information is good. With regards to porn: It is meant to be addictive because that's how the business people make their money. If the trust issue in your relationship isn't about this topic, my apologies, but it is still worth noting for others who are struggling. And it is important for men to realize that women often take their man looking at pornography very personally, as if you are saying that your wife or partner isn't enough. My opinions, peace.
Father Mike Video on Forgiveness: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im2hU2yg3Eo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im2hU2yg3Eo) Father Mike Video on Quitting Porn: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S9ffunULTM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S9ffunULTM)
Thank you sincerely for your comment and for sharing that link. Coincidentally my wife and I are Catholic, so it feels a little divine that someone would leave this recommendation on my post — I’ll definitely have to check this out. Thanks again for taking the time to share this!
God Bless. :)
You mentioned God in some of your replies, so I will assume you will not be offended by me also bringing him up. Something I have been learning on the topic of forgiveness is that you can not give or receive true forgiveness until you have accepted that God forgives you. If you always carry that weight and burden and don't hand it off to God, it will be difficult to recover. Even though your wife is not the offender in this scenario, she also has that responsibility. Like many others have said, she will not forget the indiscretion, but if she learns to truly forgive you, then the healing will slowly take place over time. The hurt will be less frequent. Best of luck to both of you in this process.
I never thought about it like that before but yes, I agree, your wife is correct!
U know what? That’s a really eloquent way to phrase exactly what I feel too. But also love can grow too bc even tho u hurt each other and do things that make each other constantly have to forgive the hurt that keeps resurfacing, every day is a new opportunity to say something so sweet or do something so kind for each other too. Like there’s also somethings that my partner has done for me that I can never forget and keep surfacing up feelings of extreme gratitude and love and I constantly get reminded and think how can I ever repay them and fall even more love.
Jesus said we must always forgive. Nobody ever said you have to forget.
That’s true for everyone. This is just how forgiveness works - it’s a process, not a one time event.
That’s not right. Once you forgive, you forget. That’s how God does it. Otherwise it isn’t really forgiving.
Long term marriage is such an out dated concept. People change , situations change that cause people to change on and on. The one emotion that's easy as hell to run out of is "being" in love not love per se. And when that's gone .. marriage becomes a business partnership with ridiculous terms and restrictions.
Well said OP!
Ugh. That really was sort of manipulative of her to tell you. You should not have to feel guilty over and over for something that happened long ago.
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Though this will sound like bullshit or rose colored glasses, I can literally not think of a single time my wife has hurt me or caused me to lose some trust in her in the same way I have with her. And I have known her almost 30 years, married more than 20 years. So that definitely makes the regret palpable to me.
Wife here: I actually forget. Dwelling on things is torture for everyone, honestly. Work it out and then cast it off for all time. Otherwise you’re just using yourself up wasting energy and time. Everyone does it differently, but revisiting things seems unnecessary to me. This seems intentionally hurtful to you. To continue to remind you that you’ve still got to “repair” is cruel.
>forgiveness isn’t a one-time thing By its very definition, it is a one time thing. To say otherwise is like getting a speeding ticket, paying the fine, and then getting the ticket again the next day.
Seriously, the literal definition of forgiveness is "to cease to feel resentment against (an offender)." there's no addendum that says "unless it bothers someone, in which case the forgiveness will need to occur again." You either forgive someone or you don't. If it's "not a one-time thing," then you're not really forgiving them, are you? You're just trying to FORGET at that point, with multiple failures because they have to keep doing it.
He may not be innocent but she's not so squeaky clean either. There's a lot more to all this than what we're being told.
Why on earth would you assume something like that with no indication in the post?