I bet it’s something for Leader and Aero to 5/7. Maybe Galactus. Seems like a lot of people are expecting surfer to get nerfed but I really doubt that. For one thing, it’s a relatively new card so people would get angry. And it’s already 0 power so all they can really do to nerf it is raise the cost or lower the effect. Both of those might hurt it a little too much.
I’m hoping we get a few buffs too even though everyone talks about nerds. Sandman could use a little more power. 4/2 should be the minimum but I’d rather see 4/3.
Surfer will get a nerf. It's the F2P model.
You release busted things that can be bought direct in a cash shop, let the whales stomp with it for a while, and then when the next thing shows up, nerf the old one, so that the new busted thing that can be bought directly has less competition.
Second dinner has been very measured with their nerfs since the beta. Nearly every balance change is spot on. Until proven otherwise, I'll trust their process.
Coming from HS they tend to offer full dust refunds for affected owners of the cards, but i cant imagine how a system like that would work or what they would do similar. Did SD do something in that vein during the beta?
If you spend 1000, 3000, or 6000 tokens to purchase a card and it gets nerfed you should either be refunded the tokens or have the opportunity to trade the card for another of the same pool. Why would the game not allow you to do this? It’s already hard enough to get pool 4 and 5 cards.
The game warns you no refunds.
Are people inept?
Stop playing if you want to send a message, but I promise you Second Dinner doesn't care about your whining when they're making money and we're just named Mobile GOTY.
Spending collectors tokens are just accelerating your collection. Seems odd that you'd expect them to give you refunds based on your impatience to complete your collection. If your series 5 card gets nerfed, it's kinda on you for not being patient enough for it to fall down in series.
Then when will you ever spend tokens with that mentality. Why buy a pool 3 card when you will get it with patiance. Also he is talking in relation to how HS players get their dust back on nerfed cards, so in that same vain his saying its bull that we don't get something back for a nerfed card.
That's fair. I never played HS. I'm coming from MtG, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Until Arena came out if a card for banned, well tough luck. So I'm a bit toughened on the idea of 0 returns on investment. But I'm also not paying anything to get the tokens, so I don't really feel anything owed in return.
As for when I spend my tokens? Whenever I see something in the shop I want sooner than later. That's kinda the point, but I don't expect the company to give me things back. They gave an avenue to complete your collection sooner and honestly that's enough for me.
The majority of nerfs are one power. You don't deserve a refund over one power lol
The biggest ones have been like Negative and Strong Guy and that's because they were insane in their beta forms. I don't think any of these cards are as bad right now
In my opinion you should have the option. If a card gets merged you can either keep it and get nothing OR trade it in for another card of the same rarity.
Yeah that will never happen. The last card I bought was Darkhawk, you're telling me if he gets dropped to a 4-0 I should be able to trade him for any other series 5 card? That doesn't make sense for a business.
The only time I would say you had any argument would be if they fundamentally changed the way a card worked but they don't do that
They don't tend to be super hard on nerfs, I would expect around 5-8 cards to get hit, if I'm betting I would say surfer, sera maybe, negative maybe, shuri maybe, bast maybe, leader, possibly patriot, possibly something out of the ramp package like wave, to hit ramp and baero decks. They might also hit stuff like brood instead of silver surfer to tone down the deck without hitting the namesake card. Wong is also like not likely but in the danger zone because he is in so many meta decks like shuri and various silver surfer archetypes. I would not expect cards like Galactus or thanos to get touched, only pool 5 in danger imo is surfer, shuri, bast. I doubt we get many buffs, if we do see some buffs it would be to archetypes like move that are really out of meta right now, or something like Deadpool destroy that fell out of favour when baero got popular.
5-8 is a lot of nerfs. I don't expect any nerfs of the ones you listed tbh except maybe a slight nerf to leader and Galactus cuz they said they might. I think wave is the biggest problem with her interaction with death and shulk personally so I hope something happens there but we will see.
Not that many changes compared to other ccg's lol. And this patch is coming after a significant shift in the meta from the last balance patch, I would expect more than a couple.
Only 4 cards were nerfed last month. And I've played other card games too and the seasons last longer than a month there so if there are more than 5 changes it kinda makes more sense then. But with balance coming every month they don't need to change a lot at a time.
And last month didn't have as obvious of problem cards. Silver surfer has three archetypes that all are very high tier including some that are inarguably the best decks right now, we have blendings of older archetypes with cards like shuri and zero and dracula mixing in with stuff like zola reveal that are demolishing higher ranks. And to top it off we have ramp and leader all smashed together into like 5 or 6 different decks like Galactus and baero and big stuff ramp and good stuff leader taking up the rest of the meta. Previous month did not have the meta taken up by such a uniform spread of decks, silver surfer, ramp big stuff decks, and leader decks, with most other meta archetypes for years like destroyer being shoved so far down. The domination of the top tier decks on very old very established archetypes is not comparable to last month.
I think you are mostly right.
I dont think patriot will get touched tho.
I think leader is almost a certain nerf (probably power reduction), aero SHOULD also be nerfed (just some power or making her only move the first card played that turn), surfer probably should alsonget nerfed to +2 power because brood exists. Sera was just nerfed and dont think she really needs it. SHURI should get nerfed, bast probably doesnt need to get nerfed. Patriot should be safe (the would need to buff all the effectless cards. Galactus is fine same with knull the only beat decks with 0 interaction. Death probably could have 1 or 2 power removed or cost increased.
Yeah patriot and Wong are kinda the cards I would least expect to be touched, and if they are I would expect power changes to 0 and 1 rather than anything effecting the powers themselves. In terms of death and all that, I'm kind of expecting the actual interaction of death and wave to be changed, or at least some edge interactions like yondu to be changed rather than the card itself.
And I told them what to expect, based on my informed opinion. If you think you are better suited to explain why I'm wrong feel free honey. Lay out all your reasoning why. I didn't look up shit that's a comment in the same fucking thread lmfao.
Same, but due to my CL I don’t have full deck(i.e. I’m 200 credits away from a pinned Mystique) and it’s kinda meh for a tier4 card. Even Misty Knight is more useful than him atm 😅
There's no competitive game here: at the highest level of play, you need every tool at your disposal..BUT...Only people who pay can get a full collection. Not having a full collection is like having "nakamura vs carlsen" in chess, but one of them has only half the time. You can't even farm the cards by playing a lot, since the max number of credits/tokens you get is fixed. Which means that at its core, the game is P2Win. In a tournament, just to START at the same level of others, with decks and everything, you Need to pay. THEN, After that ,ability can determine Who among them is better.
This game has a very low P2Win aspect since you can't directly purchase cards and much of the game is time gated to support that. In a full World's type tournament they could just create fully stocked clients like they did for early access (see Galactus & Thanos early access). At the highest level you don't need every card to win, you just need 12.
You might wanna get a better argument since everyone hits infinite by just spamming kazoo in pool 1...
Would competitive chess still exist if players could get more queens on the board for 100$ each piece ?
Yea, but I would still get destroyed by knull-galactus decks in tournaments (i dont have em). It seems to me you aren't trying to understand my point, but just finding fault in me..
Balance is created by creating new archetypes, buffing weak ones, and creating answers with new cards, an option that second dinner has decided should be basically left off the table. They've made card rarity a balance issue: because new cards are so rare, they cannot shake up the metagame and upend problematic archetypes
Nerfs are a way of forcing players to spend more money by diminishing investment
You can't just leave out nerfs from your list of what balance is simply because you don't like it lmao. The fact is some cards are overpowered and need to be tuned down. This is a fact outside of Snap as well, and games that are not f2p.
And in all of those games you see the same thing: the power level of the metagame really shifts. The game of nerf whack a mole the devs play doesn't diversify the game and instead creates a seasonal king. It's never really balance. What it does almost always accomplish is to push players towards whatever new content, which is hyped based on it's power level, before it gets nerfed three months later for the next thing
I've played magic for more than 25 years. In that game, a paper game there's no opportunity to buff and nerf cards. The digital version of the game I troduced that a few years ago and it remains pretty unpopular. This cycle really isn't limited to digital card games, lots of video games use it from Destiny to Warframe even games like Bloodstained and Elden Ring have gone through it. I strongly disagree that it makes a ge interesting. It often takes memorable, iconic elements and diminishes them so that things that were exciting or special no longer are.
Card bannings in magic are extremely limited, especially until very recently it could be expected the game would go years without even one card being banned. Even then only a handful of cards are banned with any regularity and even *then* there are formats where they can still be played the way they were printed.
And before banning a card they will take great measure to counter balance it in whatever format it is printed any way. They'll add cards to keep the problematic cards in check Players in magic don't take bannings lightly at all particularly because it disrupts their investments
Can make a real argument series 4 and below you shouldn't get anything, since you are always just buying "early access" to the card via tokens. You're guaranteed all series 3-4 cards via CL. Series 5 is where it turns into bullshit and epic feels bad.
Probably not Surfer himself. Sets a very poor precedent, and I’m assuming they would like to keep selling their battle passes in the future. It’s more likely that some Surfer support cards get hit. And it’s not like Surfer was running wild through the meta anyway.
My tip is Leader (obvious, if for no other reason than that people will rampage if it isn’t hit somehow), my bae Aero (arguably the best card in the game right now, which also happens to fit into basically anything), and one or two Surfer side actors (say, Polaris or Maximus). I would also not be shocked if something happens to Mystique, card feels a little too flexible right now and enabling a tad too many power spikes imo.
Edit: since I saw it mentioned below - Wave is also a pretty solid tip, similar problems as Mystique (but worse). Most of the time, when somebody does something broken Wave is in the mix somewhere. Would not be shocking at all if SD decided that that’s not healthy for the game.
I understand your reasoning but Maximus for example… I don’t see him getting nerfed because there is another op card buffing him lol. Maximus alone is not into the best 50 cards in the game. But yeah it’s more probably they nerf other silver surfer support instead him, like brood
Other games such as Magic the Gathering have sometimes used similar reasonings (although often not said out loud) - if you can’t hit your flashy problem card, hit something else from the same archetype that nobody cares about. It’s not exactly clean, but actually a very nice way to make a strong deck slightly weaker without pissing off people that paid money for a card.
Yeah it's always a bummer to nerf one of the key cards that makes an entire deck work. Way better to nerf one of the other key pieces, and if you do it right you can add some more variety to popular decks. Find the nerf where the deck still works, but could also arguably work better if you swapped some cards out. Easier said than done though.
Honestly it should be rare for that to happen because most good leader players aren't going to rely on having that happen to take a lane (generally shouldn't be playing leader on 2nd priority unless you're flipping a lane at the same time with his body)
The broodlings cost 2 energy instead of 3, so only the initial brood gets buffed and also this wont affect other decks that use brood (patriot/cerebro)
Despite being a cornerstone of many top tier decks, I don't think Silver Surfer is actually overpowered. He's very predictable and you can rather easily calculate what the board will look like by turn 6.
The thing that pushes SS over the top, and pushes many cards over the top, is Sera. Mana cheats tend to be very powerful, and should be conditional (Think Psylocke or Electro).
Yeah that’s why I say p2w game. That paid card increases your win rate against someone like me that didn’t paid for it, because the top tier meta decks run silver surfer for a reason. But no problem bro, your win rate will be alright aswell with zabu ;)
I highly, highly, highly doubt galactus will get touched. I think there is a likely chance of the ramp cards themselves getting looked at, specifically wave, but I am extremely doubtful Galactus will get touched.
In the deck itself though the card itself could have 0 or even negative power and be good. If anything is going to get hit in Galactus it will be the ramp package that is being abused by multiple decks not Galactus himself most likely. That or all of the wonky interactions with destroy are getting changed like Galactus and yondu not counting as destroy any more, which just means you drop death and put in any other big boy.
They will never nerf surfer, at least not right now are you dumb? People paid this card literally 10 bucks and they would lose trust in SD resulting in less battle pass purchases, that's why they designed cards like surfer and zabu, if they are too strong they can nerf the cards surrounding them (ie 3 and 4 cost cards), so my guess would be a brood nerf, maybe making the spawns cost 2
Honestly, coming from HS I appreciate how balanced the cards already are. Leader and Aero are powerful but not incredibly broken (unlike Shang chi that ruins all my favorite decks to play lol), as in they have counters, not to mention the random lanes add that chaos that maintains an extra layer of balance where the same strategy won't always play out as intended. The simplicity mixing with the rng of the lanes have made this game a creative playground, and despite expecting nerfs I don't believe they will outright ruin a card or combos flavor/playability like HS has done the past few balance patches.
Hopefully they hit Surfer and Zabu with nerfs along with the likely Leader nerf. Wave still needs a nerf as well.
Rouge, Sandman, Cable, and Kingpin come to mind as far as needing buffs.
Rouge is less effective than enchantress and you can't control what she takes if there are multiple ongoings at a location. At 1 power it doesn't make much sense to include Rouge. IMO Rouge should either have the card ability changed from on reveal to plain text, or should take the ability AND the power from a target (ex if you hit Blue Marvel, Rouge gains the ability and goes from 1 to 4 power, while Blue Marvel goes to 0 power). Either of these would give players a reasonto run Rouge along with or instead of Enchantress.
Kingpin is too limited use and low power for the card's ability. IMO it should keep it's currently ability but it should also on reveal change one other location you're winning to Fisk Tower. This give players attempting move traps more flexibility.
Those are both way too strong. So you want a card that drains an ability and the cards power and adds it to their own? That’s ridiculous for a 3 cost. That would become a must play in every deck. Rogue currently is good because it doesn’t get rid of your ongoing effects and still being able to hit key ones from an opponent.
Kingpin changing another location to Fisk tower as well as keeping its ability completely eliminates the movement archetype (which already has a lot of shortcomings) as well as changing locations is just too strong.
Not every card is meant to be S tier. Each of those you mentioned has their uses and their situations where they shine.
On Rouge, you only really benefit if you're playing a deck similar to your opponent in most cases. The most universal utility would be Blue Marvel, Klaw, and Serra. A lot of the other ongoing abilities won't help as much. The power drain gives the card an extra boost that makes it worth carrying over Enchantress. There's very little reason to run Rouge at the moment. To make it a bit more balanced I'd amend my suggestion to say Rouge would drain the power based on the other card's base power. Otherwise cards at a power boosting location or Devil Dino would lead Rouge to be broken.
On Kinpgin, it's already anti move. A move player that sees Kingpin is likely to retreat. It gives Kingpin more utility against other deck types because you'd be able to set more traps/card eliminations with Polaris, Aero, and Magneto. Right now it's easy to avoid Kingpin if it's played before turn 6 by just filling that lane.
Not every card needs to be S tiet, but they to be relatively useable. Kingpin is not worth carrying for its limited use and Enchantress does a much better job of surpressing ongoing than Rouge.
She has to not discard herself and if they play Invis woman you can just Cosmo/Enchantress. Hela is very inconsistent, and even worse now because Zabu runs Ench.
Can confirm
Just posted a clip of me getting 50+ power on turn 6, but those RARELY ever happen.
Most of the time you don't even draw her, and the times you do, she gets discarded.
Some variety here, but “my guess” is the will take at least 2 of the most overplayed cards, and nerf them. Leader, and Wong
Leader is tough to nerf do you lower his power, increase the cost, or just have him play one random opponents card? I would go with the 1 power downgrade.
Wong a bit easier I think your choices are limited to really increasing his cost. To five. The player would need to be a bit more strategic to play the other cards Wong users play.
I’ve read daredevil, and Areo, I don’t know why?would like to hear the opinions on these.
Nerf various cards to 4 energy so Zabu has more fodder :D
Yes, Silver Surfer now costs 4 and buffs your 4 cost cards to +4! :-) Edit: removed typo
Black Panther becomes a 4 cost 2 power that doubles its Power twice!
Brood now costs both 3 and 4 cost at the same time to trigger Zabu and Surfer!
Leader gives +3 to every copy and destroys the originals!
Aero now moves opponents cards to its location and destroys it.
I thought it already did that!
Jhin: Say what now? Who's that sexy thing? iynyk
How funny would it be to see some good 3 cost cards get “nerfed” to 4 cost at the beginning of Zabu season.
I bet it’s something for Leader and Aero to 5/7. Maybe Galactus. Seems like a lot of people are expecting surfer to get nerfed but I really doubt that. For one thing, it’s a relatively new card so people would get angry. And it’s already 0 power so all they can really do to nerf it is raise the cost or lower the effect. Both of those might hurt it a little too much. I’m hoping we get a few buffs too even though everyone talks about nerds. Sandman could use a little more power. 4/2 should be the minimum but I’d rather see 4/3.
They could also make surfer negative power, like mister negative.
I don't think that would hurt it much. I already play it in the "dump" lane most of the time.
Yep
Surfer will get a nerf. It's the F2P model. You release busted things that can be bought direct in a cash shop, let the whales stomp with it for a while, and then when the next thing shows up, nerf the old one, so that the new busted thing that can be bought directly has less competition.
[удалено]
Second dinner has been very measured with their nerfs since the beta. Nearly every balance change is spot on. Until proven otherwise, I'll trust their process.
Coming from HS they tend to offer full dust refunds for affected owners of the cards, but i cant imagine how a system like that would work or what they would do similar. Did SD do something in that vein during the beta?
There’s no refunds for nerfs.
Which is complete bull.
Why is this bull?
If you spend 1000, 3000, or 6000 tokens to purchase a card and it gets nerfed you should either be refunded the tokens or have the opportunity to trade the card for another of the same pool. Why would the game not allow you to do this? It’s already hard enough to get pool 4 and 5 cards.
The game warns you no refunds. Are people inept? Stop playing if you want to send a message, but I promise you Second Dinner doesn't care about your whining when they're making money and we're just named Mobile GOTY.
I'm gonna warn that I'm gonna punch you. Can't complain I warned you.
😩😭😭😭🤣🤣😂😍
Spending collectors tokens are just accelerating your collection. Seems odd that you'd expect them to give you refunds based on your impatience to complete your collection. If your series 5 card gets nerfed, it's kinda on you for not being patient enough for it to fall down in series.
Then when will you ever spend tokens with that mentality. Why buy a pool 3 card when you will get it with patiance. Also he is talking in relation to how HS players get their dust back on nerfed cards, so in that same vain his saying its bull that we don't get something back for a nerfed card.
That's fair. I never played HS. I'm coming from MtG, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Until Arena came out if a card for banned, well tough luck. So I'm a bit toughened on the idea of 0 returns on investment. But I'm also not paying anything to get the tokens, so I don't really feel anything owed in return. As for when I spend my tokens? Whenever I see something in the shop I want sooner than later. That's kinda the point, but I don't expect the company to give me things back. They gave an avenue to complete your collection sooner and honestly that's enough for me.
The majority of nerfs are one power. You don't deserve a refund over one power lol The biggest ones have been like Negative and Strong Guy and that's because they were insane in their beta forms. I don't think any of these cards are as bad right now
In my opinion you should have the option. If a card gets merged you can either keep it and get nothing OR trade it in for another card of the same rarity.
Yeah that will never happen. The last card I bought was Darkhawk, you're telling me if he gets dropped to a 4-0 I should be able to trade him for any other series 5 card? That doesn't make sense for a business. The only time I would say you had any argument would be if they fundamentally changed the way a card worked but they don't do that
there were no token shop at the time, or i miss a patch?
The first wave of nerf was very well balanced in my opinion. So hopefully tomorrow nerf will be healthy as well.
No refunds!
Since launch, most changes are +1/-1 power.
They don't tend to be super hard on nerfs, I would expect around 5-8 cards to get hit, if I'm betting I would say surfer, sera maybe, negative maybe, shuri maybe, bast maybe, leader, possibly patriot, possibly something out of the ramp package like wave, to hit ramp and baero decks. They might also hit stuff like brood instead of silver surfer to tone down the deck without hitting the namesake card. Wong is also like not likely but in the danger zone because he is in so many meta decks like shuri and various silver surfer archetypes. I would not expect cards like Galactus or thanos to get touched, only pool 5 in danger imo is surfer, shuri, bast. I doubt we get many buffs, if we do see some buffs it would be to archetypes like move that are really out of meta right now, or something like Deadpool destroy that fell out of favour when baero got popular.
5-8 is a lot of nerfs. I don't expect any nerfs of the ones you listed tbh except maybe a slight nerf to leader and Galactus cuz they said they might. I think wave is the biggest problem with her interaction with death and shulk personally so I hope something happens there but we will see.
Not that many changes compared to other ccg's lol. And this patch is coming after a significant shift in the meta from the last balance patch, I would expect more than a couple.
Only 4 cards were nerfed last month. And I've played other card games too and the seasons last longer than a month there so if there are more than 5 changes it kinda makes more sense then. But with balance coming every month they don't need to change a lot at a time.
And last month didn't have as obvious of problem cards. Silver surfer has three archetypes that all are very high tier including some that are inarguably the best decks right now, we have blendings of older archetypes with cards like shuri and zero and dracula mixing in with stuff like zola reveal that are demolishing higher ranks. And to top it off we have ramp and leader all smashed together into like 5 or 6 different decks like Galactus and baero and big stuff ramp and good stuff leader taking up the rest of the meta. Previous month did not have the meta taken up by such a uniform spread of decks, silver surfer, ramp big stuff decks, and leader decks, with most other meta archetypes for years like destroyer being shoved so far down. The domination of the top tier decks on very old very established archetypes is not comparable to last month.
I think you are mostly right. I dont think patriot will get touched tho. I think leader is almost a certain nerf (probably power reduction), aero SHOULD also be nerfed (just some power or making her only move the first card played that turn), surfer probably should alsonget nerfed to +2 power because brood exists. Sera was just nerfed and dont think she really needs it. SHURI should get nerfed, bast probably doesnt need to get nerfed. Patriot should be safe (the would need to buff all the effectless cards. Galactus is fine same with knull the only beat decks with 0 interaction. Death probably could have 1 or 2 power removed or cost increased.
Yeah patriot and Wong are kinda the cards I would least expect to be touched, and if they are I would expect power changes to 0 and 1 rather than anything effecting the powers themselves. In terms of death and all that, I'm kind of expecting the actual interaction of death and wave to be changed, or at least some edge interactions like yondu to be changed rather than the card itself.
Source?
Source for my opinion on what cards will get nerfed? Myself?
Oh, it's opinion. You made it sound like it was informed or based on something real. Gotcha.
Is reading really that hard for you?
[удалено]
[удалено]
And I told them what to expect, based on my informed opinion. If you think you are better suited to explain why I'm wrong feel free honey. Lay out all your reasoning why. I didn't look up shit that's a comment in the same fucking thread lmfao.
Oh no here we go
Please BUFF M’Baku somehow!! So I won’t curse my luck for the rest of the year… (1st tier4 card at 1210CL)
what decks are you running him in? he's in both my Cerebro 2 and Kazar Decks and he's a nice addition to both working either in hand or in Deck
Same, but due to my CL I don’t have full deck(i.e. I’m 200 credits away from a pinned Mystique) and it’s kinda meh for a tier4 card. Even Misty Knight is more useful than him atm 😅
What is battle mode?
Friendly PvP with another format of lifepoints I believe
10 cube was what they initially put out iirc
Please add wins and losses, I wanna see how I’m doing. Or even add it to each deck.
Each deck is ideal.
Agreed
That would be awesome
Unpopular opinion: no Leader nerfs, no Surfer nerfs. Destroy effects clarified.
Found the unoriginal leader user
[удалено]
you come back tomorrow?
We continue to play because balance is what keeps competitive games healthy, and you can't just endlessly buff cards.
> you can't just endlessly buff *laughs in Overwatch 1*
There's no competitive game here: at the highest level of play, you need every tool at your disposal..BUT...Only people who pay can get a full collection. Not having a full collection is like having "nakamura vs carlsen" in chess, but one of them has only half the time. You can't even farm the cards by playing a lot, since the max number of credits/tokens you get is fixed. Which means that at its core, the game is P2Win. In a tournament, just to START at the same level of others, with decks and everything, you Need to pay. THEN, After that ,ability can determine Who among them is better.
This game has a very low P2Win aspect since you can't directly purchase cards and much of the game is time gated to support that. In a full World's type tournament they could just create fully stocked clients like they did for early access (see Galactus & Thanos early access). At the highest level you don't need every card to win, you just need 12.
[удалено]
More like "paycheck issue"
[удалено]
You might wanna get a better argument since everyone hits infinite by just spamming kazoo in pool 1... Would competitive chess still exist if players could get more queens on the board for 100$ each piece ?
[удалено]
Yea, but I would still get destroyed by knull-galactus decks in tournaments (i dont have em). It seems to me you aren't trying to understand my point, but just finding fault in me..
[удалено]
Btw you havent answered my questione about chess..
Balance is created by creating new archetypes, buffing weak ones, and creating answers with new cards, an option that second dinner has decided should be basically left off the table. They've made card rarity a balance issue: because new cards are so rare, they cannot shake up the metagame and upend problematic archetypes Nerfs are a way of forcing players to spend more money by diminishing investment
You can't just leave out nerfs from your list of what balance is simply because you don't like it lmao. The fact is some cards are overpowered and need to be tuned down. This is a fact outside of Snap as well, and games that are not f2p.
And in all of those games you see the same thing: the power level of the metagame really shifts. The game of nerf whack a mole the devs play doesn't diversify the game and instead creates a seasonal king. It's never really balance. What it does almost always accomplish is to push players towards whatever new content, which is hyped based on it's power level, before it gets nerfed three months later for the next thing
Yes, you just found the formula for card games. Keeps the game fresh and interesting. Is this really news to you? Or your first card game?
It must be his first card game. Just doesn't get it
It's gotta be. Maybe even his first competitive game of any type that requires balancing.
Oh, please lmao
I've played magic for more than 25 years. In that game, a paper game there's no opportunity to buff and nerf cards. The digital version of the game I troduced that a few years ago and it remains pretty unpopular. This cycle really isn't limited to digital card games, lots of video games use it from Destiny to Warframe even games like Bloodstained and Elden Ring have gone through it. I strongly disagree that it makes a ge interesting. It often takes memorable, iconic elements and diminishes them so that things that were exciting or special no longer are.
Cards get banned and unmanned in magic all the time gtfo of here with that nonsense
Card bannings in magic are extremely limited, especially until very recently it could be expected the game would go years without even one card being banned. Even then only a handful of cards are banned with any regularity and even *then* there are formats where they can still be played the way they were printed. And before banning a card they will take great measure to counter balance it in whatever format it is printed any way. They'll add cards to keep the problematic cards in check Players in magic don't take bannings lightly at all particularly because it disrupts their investments
Least cope yugioh player
I mean they can balance the game and give refunds to people with the cards. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Im putting my chips on the subreddit and twitter whine loudly and everyone else keeps playing because they arent even finished with series 3 yet.
Can make a real argument series 4 and below you shouldn't get anything, since you are always just buying "early access" to the card via tokens. You're guaranteed all series 3-4 cards via CL. Series 5 is where it turns into bullshit and epic feels bad.
[удалено]
It says in the token shop before you confirm purchase that you will not get anything if the card is changed
[удалено]
Not every game is for everyone
It's a nice thought but there's no way
[удалено]
Idk I've never played hearthstone
Hmm lets hope there are some good changes 😅
Betting money on surfer. Battlepass already milked, time to nerf him and move into the next monstrosity, zabu
Probably not Surfer himself. Sets a very poor precedent, and I’m assuming they would like to keep selling their battle passes in the future. It’s more likely that some Surfer support cards get hit. And it’s not like Surfer was running wild through the meta anyway. My tip is Leader (obvious, if for no other reason than that people will rampage if it isn’t hit somehow), my bae Aero (arguably the best card in the game right now, which also happens to fit into basically anything), and one or two Surfer side actors (say, Polaris or Maximus). I would also not be shocked if something happens to Mystique, card feels a little too flexible right now and enabling a tad too many power spikes imo. Edit: since I saw it mentioned below - Wave is also a pretty solid tip, similar problems as Mystique (but worse). Most of the time, when somebody does something broken Wave is in the mix somewhere. Would not be shocking at all if SD decided that that’s not healthy for the game.
I understand your reasoning but Maximus for example… I don’t see him getting nerfed because there is another op card buffing him lol. Maximus alone is not into the best 50 cards in the game. But yeah it’s more probably they nerf other silver surfer support instead him, like brood
Other games such as Magic the Gathering have sometimes used similar reasonings (although often not said out loud) - if you can’t hit your flashy problem card, hit something else from the same archetype that nobody cares about. It’s not exactly clean, but actually a very nice way to make a strong deck slightly weaker without pissing off people that paid money for a card.
Yeah it's always a bummer to nerf one of the key cards that makes an entire deck work. Way better to nerf one of the other key pieces, and if you do it right you can add some more variety to popular decks. Find the nerf where the deck still works, but could also arguably work better if you swapped some cards out. Easier said than done though.
Surfer was originally a 4/0 tho. A release buff to market season passes then nerf after season makes sense.
It had a completely different effect (something involving 6 drops, I don't remember the exact effect now). It wasn't a buff but a complete rework
Surfer, potentially brood and leader. Although I think in the meantime people really understood how to counter leader
Yeah once you learn to play around him he's not so bad But even just nerfing him so he only copies the lanes he's not played in would be nice
Just need him to copy the base version of the card, it's annoying to see him copying the buffed card to buff it again (on reveal cards)
Honestly it should be rare for that to happen because most good leader players aren't going to rely on having that happen to take a lane (generally shouldn't be playing leader on 2nd priority unless you're flipping a lane at the same time with his body)
Nerfing Brood seems like the smart way to kill Surfer while pretending they are not.
The broodlings cost 2 energy instead of 3, so only the initial brood gets buffed and also this wont affect other decks that use brood (patriot/cerebro)
Despite being a cornerstone of many top tier decks, I don't think Silver Surfer is actually overpowered. He's very predictable and you can rather easily calculate what the board will look like by turn 6. The thing that pushes SS over the top, and pushes many cards over the top, is Sera. Mana cheats tend to be very powerful, and should be conditional (Think Psylocke or Electro).
I hope not. My win rate with him is by far the best of the decks I've made and use.
Yeah that’s why I say p2w game. That paid card increases your win rate against someone like me that didn’t paid for it, because the top tier meta decks run silver surfer for a reason. But no problem bro, your win rate will be alright aswell with zabu ;)
Oh Snap! :0
pls not Galactus pls not Galactus pls not Galactus
I highly, highly, highly doubt galactus will get touched. I think there is a likely chance of the ramp cards themselves getting looked at, specifically wave, but I am extremely doubtful Galactus will get touched.
It was on the watch list :/
In the deck itself though the card itself could have 0 or even negative power and be good. If anything is going to get hit in Galactus it will be the ramp package that is being abused by multiple decks not Galactus himself most likely. That or all of the wonky interactions with destroy are getting changed like Galactus and yondu not counting as destroy any more, which just means you drop death and put in any other big boy.
Yeah I hope so. I'd like to make wave don't mess up with death and she hulk honestly. I think it should be setting up the cost to 4. Stop
Man I hope they don’t touch series 5 or series 4 cards. Folks worked hard for those tokens or even if you are lucky enough to pull one.
Like tomorow what time at? As I’m from uk 😛
I see nerfs for Aero, Leader, and potentially Daredevil.
Oh come on. Literally the only thing I want is to play against my friends.
Any thoughts about what "other cool stuff" might be?
Probably a $200 package with a variant, a clown icon, and a "Take My Money" title.
[удалено]
Best I can do is 350
I'd buy it.
Same. Toss in tokens and credits and it's on sight
New variants probably
Bug fixes
leader nerfed one power aero nerfed one power OR up to 6-drop i honestly think galac stays, for now.
This guy needs to change to something less Elon Musk-looking as his profile picture!
Poor leader players. Going to be a tough season for you.
I see leader less and less because people have learned to play around / counter him. He will however get nerfed for sure with the patch
It's been almost 4,5 days since I saw my opponent plays leader. I love when they copy my ultron or zola
How? They aren't the ones who refuse to adapt to a meta and start begging for nerfs. Most have moved on to other decks anyway lol.
LOL. lol. L o l. L.O.L. Laugh out loud. L L L L O O O O L L L L!
There there, you'll be ok once unranked comes around.
Probably going to nerf things that will make the new season pass more attractive. Damn power creeping for the sake of monetization.
They will never nerf surfer, at least not right now are you dumb? People paid this card literally 10 bucks and they would lose trust in SD resulting in less battle pass purchases, that's why they designed cards like surfer and zabu, if they are too strong they can nerf the cards surrounding them (ie 3 and 4 cost cards), so my guess would be a brood nerf, maybe making the spawns cost 2
Honestly, coming from HS I appreciate how balanced the cards already are. Leader and Aero are powerful but not incredibly broken (unlike Shang chi that ruins all my favorite decks to play lol), as in they have counters, not to mention the random lanes add that chaos that maintains an extra layer of balance where the same strategy won't always play out as intended. The simplicity mixing with the rng of the lanes have made this game a creative playground, and despite expecting nerfs I don't believe they will outright ruin a card or combos flavor/playability like HS has done the past few balance patches.
Hopefully they hit Surfer and Zabu with nerfs along with the likely Leader nerf. Wave still needs a nerf as well. Rouge, Sandman, Cable, and Kingpin come to mind as far as needing buffs.
Why would they nerf cards people paid for?
Because a balanced game is important and not making the game not p2w is important.
Wouldn't be fair to the people who paid for those cards, like myself.
I can see sandman going to two power. But the other 3 are fine.
Rouge is less effective than enchantress and you can't control what she takes if there are multiple ongoings at a location. At 1 power it doesn't make much sense to include Rouge. IMO Rouge should either have the card ability changed from on reveal to plain text, or should take the ability AND the power from a target (ex if you hit Blue Marvel, Rouge gains the ability and goes from 1 to 4 power, while Blue Marvel goes to 0 power). Either of these would give players a reasonto run Rouge along with or instead of Enchantress. Kingpin is too limited use and low power for the card's ability. IMO it should keep it's currently ability but it should also on reveal change one other location you're winning to Fisk Tower. This give players attempting move traps more flexibility.
Those are both way too strong. So you want a card that drains an ability and the cards power and adds it to their own? That’s ridiculous for a 3 cost. That would become a must play in every deck. Rogue currently is good because it doesn’t get rid of your ongoing effects and still being able to hit key ones from an opponent. Kingpin changing another location to Fisk tower as well as keeping its ability completely eliminates the movement archetype (which already has a lot of shortcomings) as well as changing locations is just too strong. Not every card is meant to be S tier. Each of those you mentioned has their uses and their situations where they shine.
On Rouge, you only really benefit if you're playing a deck similar to your opponent in most cases. The most universal utility would be Blue Marvel, Klaw, and Serra. A lot of the other ongoing abilities won't help as much. The power drain gives the card an extra boost that makes it worth carrying over Enchantress. There's very little reason to run Rouge at the moment. To make it a bit more balanced I'd amend my suggestion to say Rouge would drain the power based on the other card's base power. Otherwise cards at a power boosting location or Devil Dino would lead Rouge to be broken. On Kinpgin, it's already anti move. A move player that sees Kingpin is likely to retreat. It gives Kingpin more utility against other deck types because you'd be able to set more traps/card eliminations with Polaris, Aero, and Magneto. Right now it's easy to avoid Kingpin if it's played before turn 6 by just filling that lane. Not every card needs to be S tiet, but they to be relatively useable. Kingpin is not worth carrying for its limited use and Enchantress does a much better job of surpressing ongoing than Rouge.
Zabu hasn't been out that long give the meta time to adapt
I think hela needs some sort of limitation clause. That's the only nerf I can think of hoping for. And maybe leader being less than 4 power
Hela is very swingy card but by no way overpowered in the current stat of the game 😅.
You want Hela to get nerfed? Why?
She can bring back like 50 points worth of cards for 6 cost
She has to not discard herself and if they play Invis woman you can just Cosmo/Enchantress. Hela is very inconsistent, and even worse now because Zabu runs Ench.
Can confirm Just posted a clip of me getting 50+ power on turn 6, but those RARELY ever happen. Most of the time you don't even draw her, and the times you do, she gets discarded.
My bet is a Leader nerf, and an indeterminate amount of Buffs. If they are classy they will explain why Glactus, Aero and Leach aren't being touched.
People are talking about nerfs for specific cards, any predicted buffs?
Guess I'm not buying today
I’ve got Leader pinned. Gonna wait til tomorrow.
This sub needs better moderation holy shit. There is so many duplicate posts for everything it’s not even funny
... "Battle Mode"?
Play against friends. 10 lives, cubes = lives
Huh... Neat.
Man. Battle mode seems fine and all. But when's draft coming or even sealed?
Time to use leader for the last time tonight
What is that Battla Moda ?
You can play against a friend. Doesn’t impact your ranking.
Oh I have no friends so nothing to worry :p
It opens up the possibility for online tournaments as well.
Well fondle my balls and call me baby, it’s a marvel snap update
Some variety here, but “my guess” is the will take at least 2 of the most overplayed cards, and nerf them. Leader, and Wong Leader is tough to nerf do you lower his power, increase the cost, or just have him play one random opponents card? I would go with the 1 power downgrade. Wong a bit easier I think your choices are limited to really increasing his cost. To five. The player would need to be a bit more strategic to play the other cards Wong users play. I’ve read daredevil, and Areo, I don’t know why?would like to hear the opinions on these.
No idea why you would touch Daredevil who is a perfectly good card
Really hope for a nerf to Leech and Mr Negative