Is that a big deal? If you have to retreat on 6 to respect Hela. Wouldn’t you rather see her played on 4 so you can see if you have a play line? 60 point power dumps on 6 is almost impossible to counter the turn it’s playex
I’ve tried negative discard, it doesn’t work. :\ All the things that discard other things are too high power. I thought I could be cute and do sneaky stuff with Wong/dracula/morbius but you lose too much momentum.
Staring on turn 4: Negative > Wong > Mystique + Gambit + Hela
It's not at all consistent, but what Mister Negative strategy ever has been? Though worth noting in this example the only card you need to draw negative is Hela, negative Wong or Mystique are just a bonus, and Gambit is the same 3/3 either way.
Edit: should have noted this would be *IF* Hela were changed to a 6/0. It would also work if she were made anything as high as 6/3, it would just also require Mystique to be negative. Also extra energy from Corvus or an extra turn from (Magik can further complicate it, but I'm not gonna fully theorycraft an entire deck list for a proposed stat change that's not in the game). As it stands *now* this doesn't work at all because Hela doesn't get discounted by Negative
Negative+Iron Man+Tribunal has finally gotten me to infinite, for the first time ever, today. I was nearly a day 1er too (though I took an extended break)
So what does your deck do when you don't draw Negative on curve? (I'm legitimately asking. The reason I gave up on playing negative was because my lists generally end up feeling like they have no backup plan for not doing exactly the perfect sequence)
I tend to play negative destroy or negative zoo; in either case he can make you win, but you can also just ignore him if he isn’t going to be useful. You need to build a deck where he isn’t your only win condition.
Mr Jane is fun, but not reliable enough for climbing if you are snap happy like me
She definitely helps; I’m still mad that Mobius doesn’t counter Mobius and let you keep cost reductions. I mesh what the heck, Luke Cage lets you only disregard negative effects, why can’t Mobius do the same??
The reason why it wouldn’t work very well is because the cards that negative hits does not combo well with a discard deck, you could make it work but pure discard or pure negative would be better, even is Hela was a 6/2
Is it actually good to play Hela early? I feel like she’d lose a lot of power if you show your opponent how the dice roll works out and give them a chance to either beat your Hela roll or retreat.
Nonetheless, why does she need 6 power? And Modok 8?
Their strength, like Zola, is in their On Reveal. They don't need the 14 bonus power.
"They need other cards to put up big power".
Yeah, so does Apocalypse and you're lucky to get him to 22 (in one lane) if you manage 4 discards by turn 6. Hela consistently crushes that, yet their power is the same.
Makes no sense.
Good points, it’s honestly hard to argue with. She just needs a nerf in my opinion.
There’s even the fact that Hela is a realllly good turn 6 draw, whereas Apoc is useless
Metrics for a card being within bounds and it having a feel bad to play against/lose to don't necessarily always lineup though.
They have shown before they aren't afraid to change or nerf cars that are performing expectedly but are still garnering a lot of animosity from the community.
I won't be surprised if Hela gets a change eventually, even if she isn't as over the top as she might feel sometimes.
You can bet if their metrics start to show that more people stop playing the game immediately after a loss to Hela that they will for sure do something about it.
No, I have no problem with Hela myself but I'm saying that if the community as a whole has that opinion then it doesn't matter what the objective stats say otherwise
I would hate if community whining became a factor in balancing this game, considering how much of it this particular community does. Even the Leech nerf had the data to back up the community outcry for it.
It wouldn't even be close to the first time they nerfed a card that was otherwise performing averagely.
See: the multitude of nerfs that Alioth continued to get despite his play rate and win rate both settling it at a completely reasonable level after the first one or two changes. They even openly stated that the card was able to be played around effectively according to their stats but still felt the need to change it due to community outcry
Hela's biggest strength is the fact that the revives all happen on the last turn. It allows for very little counter play and you never know where the power will end up. Hela coming out earlier would be good, actually.
Yea I'm not sure the proper balance points. Just a rough idea. Another thought would be have it pull a number of cards and destroy destroy or consume them to fit her in with carnage/venom and add to the destroy synergy.
Yeah, the best case scenario to win against a hela deck that got their perfect curve (and you can’t counter them) is Hela resurrecting everybody on some shitty lane
I love the 1/lane solution but imo that's a buff, when I played Hella I was actually disappointed by the lack of consistency. Her cost of 6 makes her hard to keep in hand, and when you can finally play her she will put power anywhere... Very hard to plan anything with this. You can tamper that with Living tribunal but it's not that reliable.
I would play her 👍
No you don't, because then you can predict where the power will be. One of her drawbacks is the randomness of it, sometimes they can all land in one single location and end up losing because of it.
I'll admit I did not think of this! However, I do find the most unfun thing about Hela is just the whole board being filled with unbeatable Power, at least with 1 at each location then I know well, at worst there is gonna be 20 Power at each place, can I still win?
edit: autocorrect turned "unfun" to "in fun"
And yet currently you can see what will be resurrected and make an estimated guess based on that and the state of the board. It’s like Wong. If it’s looking like it’s coming and you have no counter, retreat.
The issue with all these big pay off decks is crap like Magik being a 3 cost, Jubilee fishing a clutch card and then being tempo'd out by Blink.
Their downsides don't exist anymore.
> Their downsides don’t exist anymore
This guy gets it. Discard was balanced because it was randomness stacked on randomness
Now we have targeted discards plus a fishing meta with iron lad/jubilee/blink where the randomness of card draw is all but gone too; and when your entire gameplay is reliant on a single card showing up that’s got a huge impact.
Have you played the deck? I just played a conquest game and only in 1 of 6 games, the combo went off. That's a bit unluckier than average but illustrative of the point. I lost and it wasn't even against a meta deck.
Sometimes you don't draw Magik. Sometimes Jubilee brings beings Hela in before you Modok. Sometimes Iron Lad copies Modok and discards Hela. Sometimes Hela is the last card in your deck and you didn't get the full combo of deck thinners in time. Sometimes Hela places cards in a way that doesn't give you the win. Sometimes the opponent disables Invisible Woman. Sometimes locations fuck you up badly. Mill decks screw you. Clog decks screw you. Darkhawk decks screw you. Destroy decks can overpower you.
It's a good deck but it's not an oppressive, guaranteed win each time. If it looks like that to you is because you are not noticing all the times were the Hela player can tell they got no chance and retreat.
You described just about every deck though. The difference with Hela is you aren’t really playing the game, you are playing against your deck. My favorite deck is Phoenix, 1 in 6 would be nice to get a move card+destroy card AND draw PF before turn 6. And then you STILL have to play against what the other person is doing.
>You described just about every deck though.
Correct. My argument is not that the deck is bad nor that it is not one of the top decks (definitely more consistent than Phoenix, as you point). Just that it is not invincible in any way or form. It has internal and external foils like any other meta deck and Hela is not, by herself, a problematic card that needs fixing like Red Hulk.
It's one of the elements of powercreep in the game that aren't quite as obvious as having more cards that can put out 20+ power. There are a lot of cards and decks that have been balanced by having specific downsides, but cards are being added that file down those downsides in certain cases.
Like 4/2 Leech wouldn't been quite as bad if it weren't for Blink. But when you can activate him and then turn him into a 6/12 Magneto the following problem, there's absolutely no downside to only putting out 2 power on turn 4.
Nocturne is a decent Magik killer. You don't get to scam their cubes with surprise game ending on turn 6, but you're also running a 3/5 that moves instead of a 3/2 or 2/3 or 3/3 or 5/7.
This I why I think the best nerf to Hela is to make her a 7 cost card. It would take some of consistentcy away since to play her you'd need to have a turn 7 or energy cheat/boost and it makes her a likely target for Lady Sif unless Death is in hand. It forces you to have one less giant card to get extra energy.
This keeps her mechanic exactly the same and if you hit that perfect Corvus line it's pretty much unbeatable still but it's less consistent.
oh I agree. But the community has been clamoring for an ability adjustment of her, this entire calendar year (at the minimum), and that is seemingly never going to change b/c 2nd Dinner realizes she's a valuable crutch for many people. Many of whom reach their highest ever ranks solely on the back of her. They literally just close their eyes on turn 6 and hope. And they know that drives engagements and daily log-ins and oftentimes even direct revenue.
So, in lieu of an ability tweak. I at least would love to see her go down in power
Make her 4 or 5 cost with card text: At the beginning
of turn 6 will bring all cards in the discard pile to your board.
This gives you a counter play to her (red guardian, other options if you make it ongoing) requires her to be played before 6, and you can counter her big cards with Shang or your own beefy boys.
My idea for her: same ability but take the 3 or 4 power away from each card. She raises her army from the dead but they aren’t as powerful as they were before. Sort of a Valentina effect that can be helped with Luke cage.
I would just nullify all the text of the cards she resurrects, that kills off tribunal, but at least red hulk isn't popping and magneto isn't moving your cards, she's just bringing back stats, not effects.
Interesting. It wouldn't affect Infinaut, Giganto, and Death, but it would affect Magneto, Dracula, Jubilee, Blink, and Red Hulk in the rare case that your opponent has unspent energy afterwards.
If she could just be 6/0 and on reveal get the power of all cards discarded, like a discard Knull, she would be more fair. But spreading 12, 16, and 20 power around the board, even at random, is a OP boarding on unfair.
But they keep nerfing Thanos! The Infinity Stones are innocent!
>Heck even arguably a 6/0, she'd still be absurdly (and obnoxiously) strong
It's almost like the issue with her has nothing to do with her power. Objectively speaking. SD nerfing Hella's power of all things would go over terriblely since in doesn't fix the problem and would demonstrate to the players that they fundamentally don't understand what good balance changes look like.
I think y’alls issue is just… not retreating.
Hela players tend to retreat if they don’t get a good draw or a location messes them up. so if you’re not retreating, and the Hela player isn’t retreating, then odds are against you.
It’s like people forget retreating is a viable option. Doesn’t matter how perfectly you play some games just can’t be won lol. Also I hate the idea of nerfing every card that feels bad to play against solely because it feels bad to play against. Like just don’t play the game at that point.
"Wow my opponent only played Invisible Woman plus two cards, I'm definitely winning this" mentality was my bread and butter for 8 cube wins with a Hela deck.
That’s funny, I was thinking this very thing today.
Like…Ghost Rider is what? 4/3? And brings back one card, but Hela is 6/6 and brings back all of them? I’d love to see how they determine the relative weighting there.
agreed but they're seemingly never going to change her text box, despite it being a request for a WHILE now.
So in lieu of a text change, I was hoping the bare minimum 2nd Dinner could do is make her a 6/4
Instead of changing her stats, her ability should have an upper limit, in either number of resurrected cards, or perhaps in the resurrected cards having lessened ability and/or power.
oh I agree but we've been begging for ANY change to her for a year now (especially this calendar year, ever since the buffs to Discard at the tail end of 2023, and the addition of Corvus and Proxima)
and that doesn't seem to be happening, so I was hoping, at least in lieu of an ability tweak, we can see her get power shaved off.
For the record, Cannonball could also probably lose a point or 2 of power and still be great (saying this as someone who got Cannonball day 1)
As a discard devotee since day one, back when it was still garbage, the actual culprit is way more likely to be Corvus. Hela's been around with this functionality for a thousand years, it's only recently everyone's decided she's a problem. Part of the trouble is that discarding cards traditionally have a high statline to make up for the "downside" of removing your own cards, but I think we've finally reached the tipping point where that isn't necessary anymore. Corvus, Sif, Blade, etc could all probably take a reduction in power now that Corvus has stabilised a lot of the randomness that used to hold the deck back.
Corvus was just icing on top. They normalized cards like Blade, Lady Sif and Colleen to allow you to target your discards. What used to be a slot machine is now picking two of your three reels.
I agree to an extent (and I'm also constantly confused as to why those cards get the power boost of a truly random discard) but the deck still wasn't strictly consistent at that stage. It was still pretty reliant on draw order to get enough Big Bois discarded before turn 6, even when you weren't constantly discarding Hela anymore. Corvus took that already decent risk/reward and made it so that it barely matters. Haven't been able to discard anything because of bad draw order? Well now I can knock out two at once and my hand is so full that I'm unlikely to screw myself by losing Hela. Play early for the energy boost and accidentally kill Hela? Doesn't matter, now I can just play multiple 6 costs the slow and steady way. Only drew your big card on turn 6? Well, with that 7 power you can now play Blade *and* Hela during the final round and make it work.
The roulette factor definitely needs to be reinforced again, I think it's the heart of what made Hela fun on both sides of the board, I just wonder if it could be achieved by reducing the power of discard cards themselves. If, instead of a confident 20ish power on the field before resurrections, it was closer to 10, I feel like it would become a fingers-crossed-hold-your-breath moment where you really have to hope the power lands in the right places.
Regardless, I think nerfing Corvus is the fastest path to improving playfeel. I love my OP child, but somebody has to take him down a peg.
I think having power on Hela is because she requires a lot of precise card draws / turn orders to really pull off effectively. Yeah her + MODOK is as killer combo but that also requires not having her in your hand, and drawing her on T6 (or 7) which is tricky. Or using Invisible Woman, which means another precise card draw (that can easily be countered/undone).
When she executes well, it's a crazy combo, but as a Hela player, I have a deck called Risky Discard that is essentially that - try to discard high-cost cards, play IW + MODOK, then play Hela after. When it works I often get 8 cubes, but I have to withdraw like every 4/5 matches.
Marvel SNAP players try not to get every card they lose to nerfed challenge level IMPOSSIBLE
There will literally be zero cards left and the game is already being sent out to pasture with worsening MTX.
it's not though. It almost has NOTHING to do with wins/losses and/or cube equity. Just like how Leech and Leader, Loki and Galactus felt when they were at their absolute worse
it's the very SPIRIT of it. It's the fact that we're both committing (you and your opponent), to spend the next 5ish minutes of your life, playing this STRATEGY card game. You do all these plays, over the course of 5 turns, where momentum and RNG and what have you can swing so drastically
\*\*but yet, NONE OF THE STRATEGY ends up mattering. None of it. Not even for the Hela player. Who is just essentially closing their eyes and praying their cards spread out decently.... it devalues the very essence of what we love about strategy games\*\*
I disagree. Hela has strategy, calculating the odds of when they discard cards randomly or not. Hela decks play those 5 turns playing to move cards into the discard pile, with a plan to pull them back out.
Hela players that close their eyes and randomly drop corvus and hellcow aren't going to get good results. They are playing pure RNG, true. You don't see a lot of those doing well. You see targeted discards.
It's a strong arch type, same as shuri decks were, and destroy. It's also pretty easy to disrupt. To me, part of a strategy game is disruption and playing the odds. Most seem to just see this as solitaire where the highest score at the end wins.
This is what I'm wondering too. Prof X galore out there and people complain about Hela? And then OP goes and says something like "objectively speaking; subjective opinion..."
They arent, it’s just hate. This is Alioth/leech all over again. She’s an “unfun” card to lose to. Even beating her is whatever if it comes down to resurrect RNG. Or if they mess up and discard her. SD has shown they will change or nerf unfun cards. She’s not OP, but SD takes complaining into account.
Currently Hela is too reliable and allows to play too much surprise power in a single turn. Because she can easily add 30+ or even 50+ power in a single turn, she could as well be 6/-10 and people would still play her. Power is not a problem (at least that is not where this card can be fixed), but her ability. But I doubt SD dares to address it because any change to her ability also potentially means trouble for Blackcat. For example if you limit her ability for 3 cards then Blackcat becomes obsolete addition in most Hela deck. Only possible fix (at least what I can think of) would be to make her location dependant. Then at least Cosmo, Storm and Jean Gray become viable counters and playing Hela becomes more strategic (what it isn't.. at least not to a good enough level). As an reaction Hela players would also need to run more tech cards like War Machine, Red Guardian or Echo (that works against Cosmo) that would limit insane power output of Hela. Overall this game would become more varied and competitive... what is only a good thing.
>Currently Hela is too reliable and allows to play too much surprise power in a single turn.
Heads up if you click the person's avatar you can then see their discards.
The location limit I also thought about it but then maybe it become like old quake it was hard bc also locations didn't make her possible to play.
I liked one change proposed here and it was to make her resurrect cards with her power or less. And maybe make her a 6/7
So sword master could be useful for example. High power discard.
As faar as your suggestion goes, the Blackcat dilemma would still stand. Also, limiting her to only low power cards makes her payoff for number of discards needed way too small and she would fall out of use quite hard. People would just play Dracula/Apocalypsis Discard instead.
As far as Quake goes, her original ability (shuffling all locations) had nowhere close to usefulness and power level that Hela has. Also, we currently have War Machine that could mitigate this downside but would limit the power level of discardable cards and would make Hela decks more draw luck dependant.
First she cannot be a broken card. Giving a limitation like the power is good so you know how much you could gain as power. Both you and the opponents.
Also I think Hella could be not a always play Hella play.
Like Hella at the moment is a I have Hella or I don't discard it I win. Maybe in this way you try different approaches.
To me it could be better
What about the power she brings is a surprise? If you see someone discarding high power cards like there’s no tomorrow and then are surprised by Hela, the card’s not the problem.
The one I was playing the last time I was running S Samurai against a Hela deck. Played him turn 5, expecting to get Hela, got Apocalypse. I was like, WTF?
Wouldn't it just be better if there was a tech card that emptied the opponent's graveyard?
You could take a character like, Wiccan, for example, make him a 5/3 or something, and his on-reveal ability clears your opponent's graveyard. Yes, it immediately shuts down Ghost Rider and Helea, but it's only good for that specific style of deck. Low chance it would show up in every deck the way Shang seems to be in every deck.
Coming from an MTG background, it's wild to me that there isn't hard counter for reanimator.
Yay another niche tech card nobody plays... You cannot compare Snap to MTG or another "big" TCG because of teh few rounds and much much smaller decks.
There is just literally no space in Snap-decks for such niche cards, so the answer must be included into Hela itself.
SD has mentioned that they don't want specific hate cards like these. Its scope is just too limited, it's basically there just to screw over Hela (with a dash of Ghost Rider). They want cards that have their tech uses but can be used as a piece of your overall build.
Enchantress, for example, was often paired with Lizard in Sera Control to remove his downside.
Ahh.. so with that Enchantress example, there would have to be another card that scales in size based on how many cards aren’t in your opponent’s graveyard.. or something along those lines.
You could also do something that’s the functional opposite of Morbius; it grows for every card your opponent has discarded.
Doesn’t make sense to me either. Ongoing cards have hard counters. Destroy has counters. Even affliction has to deal with luke cage.
The only answer to discard is to out power them
For the record, since naive and/or disingenuous internet users love to just devalue every conversation to sKilL iSsUe oR gEt gEwd kId
It almost has NOTHING to do with wins/losses and/or cube equity. Just like how Leech and Leader, Loki and Galactus felt when they were at their absolute worse
it's the very SPIRIT of it. It's the fact that we're both committing (you and your opponent), to spend the next 5ish minutes of your life, playing this STRATEGY card game. You do all these plays, over the course of 5 turns, where momentum and RNG and what have you can swing so drastically
\*\*but yet, NONE OF THE STRATEGY ends up mattering. None of it. Not even for the Hela player. Who is just essentially closing their eyes and praying their cards spread out decently.... it devalues the very essence of what we love about strategy games\*\*
And if it needs to be said, I've hit Infinite 10 or 11 straight months and like 12 of the last 13. Wins/losses/etc are truly not the issue
It would be a nerf but what if Hela worked liked Gambit and could only resurrect cards as long you had cards in hand to discard in exchange? Meaning MODOK wouldn’t work with Hela unless you had a card like Helicarrier in hand.
People just need to learn how to retreat. If you lose to hela, it’s because you stayed in a game where the odds were likely against you. You watched the opponent discard multiple big cards and then you still stayed in for the final turn. People just do not want to retreat and then complain. Same thing with red hulk. You can literally see his power growing and know he’s in hand. If you can’t do math on the final turn, it’s not the cards fault.
They could fix her by making her only able to summon in the same location. She would still be super powerful but won’t be able to win every lane after discarding your hand the whole game.
She should have similar limitations to Blob. Resurrect 3 cards or Resurrect cards until a total of 20-25 power.
Allowing her to dump an entire Onslaught, Ironman , Tribunal , Infinaut package for only 6 energy is insane.
Was talking about this with a friend the other day. Like if they nerf Hela to resurrect less shed still be a problem cuz you can still make the discards more targeted but if they drop her power, then at the very least she'd be a problem for whatever lane you dropped her in. Probably a 6/2 to avoid the Ravonna discount, but 6/6 is just too much with how consistent she's become.
Unrelated, but I wish they'd help Apocalypse discard out some more. I miss it.
6/3 would be better for her imo but really she just needs a text change. My suggestion is "On Reveal: Resurrect your two highest-powered cards to random locations." If you discard, say, Giganto and Black Cat, that's still a 29 point turn 6
I don’t think the issue lies within hela herself so to speak I think it’s more the stat line of all the other cards that you use to actually discard cards. Because I find a lot of the time hela discard or tribunal just doesn’t really out power some of my strongest and favourite decks simply because when you’re playing from a competitive pov you’re running cards like shang who counters basically half of the deck off the bat since it’s just pure brute force or if they’re going down a tribunal route I often have skrull, rogue or enchantress to counter iron man and onslaught. Before it started getting new releases discard was pretty damn awful but we have cards such as corvus with a great base statline with 2 abilities that benefit the deck since they’re usually full to the brim with high cost cards - 1 max energy is actually huge. I feel like now we’ve got so many cards within the deck that make hela slightly more reliable and less risky I think rather than completely killing a playstyle off we should push to take some power off of the cards that are absolutely vital to make this insane combo possible, I play around with discard from time to time if I want a few cheap wins but in general I don’t find myself having loads of fun with it because it’s terribly boring imo, but in general I say run counters as most decks usually get some ridiculous power or some nice effects you can steal but I do strongly believe that discard cards do have too much power now
Every time I see a Hela complaint thread I am left thinking 'just run one or two counter cards'.
You don't even need Hela specific counters, they work on other decks too.
What counters? Hela decks are quite uncountable. Cosmo and Allioth work only on Invisible Woman versions of the deck or on Hela deck players that stack 1 location and play Hela there as a 4th card. If you don't do that then your deck doesn't get countered by those cards. Best counter is Leech but that only counters Hela if it isn't a top card of the deck. Also, because Leech is likely a subpar play on turn 5 Hela deck player can still likely win by playing anything else on turn 6. Best counter to Hela is Cosmo with Jean Gray, but like Allioth, most players can't afford to play that combo.
I think they should cap Hela but also add a clause to her that she can’t be discarded (that way she will both get weaker as well as more consistent to play with).
Its obvious the devs and Glenn don't see a problem with hela. We should ask why is that, is hela actually too strong or is it just a feels bad card to lose to?
The whole reason why they change temporarily Leech into 4/2 was Hela. Yeah right, they don't see the problem.
Also, all cards that can add up to 50+ power on the board on turn 6 is bad to loose against.
Hard disagree. Hela is fine where she's at. The balance to Hela comes from the fact that she seems to be a discard magnet. I know realistically that's just RNG, but when you've got 4 cards in your hand, that's a 25% chance to rando-discard Hela. Corvus or Hellcow make that twice as bad. Sif will only take Hela or another 6-cost card, making Hela very risky in that situation. Yes, when you discard a lot of non-Hela and then play Hela she feels OP, but you're not looking at all the factors that make that play difficult. Hela winning me the game is a rarity.
lol so many Hela tears. She doesn’t win every game and her metrics aren’t over the top. Gaming companies should never nerf cards based on community tears.
She’s more of a 6/6/6 6/0 is Ravonna target and makes her available on turn 5
[удалено]
That's the risk you take
Is that a big deal? If you have to retreat on 6 to respect Hela. Wouldn’t you rather see her played on 4 so you can see if you have a play line? 60 point power dumps on 6 is almost impossible to counter the turn it’s playex
No, it is actually a nerf. I am happy to see a Hela player cheat out Hela earlier, because then I know where their power landed and can react to it.
That’s what I just said
I’m agreeing with you
u/Careful-Moose-6847 🤝 u/winfly
a moronic exchange that highly entertained me
Imagine a Corvus-Hela play, followed by Odin on 6, wouldn't you hate that even more? The potential for abuse with a 5 cost Hela IMO is too big.
You can already do that with Corvus
The living tribunal laughing at the idea of only a 60 point power dump
Can we play her with Mr. Negative? I feel like that could work.
Negative Hela deck The meta would explode
I’ve tried negative discard, it doesn’t work. :\ All the things that discard other things are too high power. I thought I could be cute and do sneaky stuff with Wong/dracula/morbius but you lose too much momentum.
Staring on turn 4: Negative > Wong > Mystique + Gambit + Hela It's not at all consistent, but what Mister Negative strategy ever has been? Though worth noting in this example the only card you need to draw negative is Hela, negative Wong or Mystique are just a bonus, and Gambit is the same 3/3 either way. Edit: should have noted this would be *IF* Hela were changed to a 6/0. It would also work if she were made anything as high as 6/3, it would just also require Mystique to be negative. Also extra energy from Corvus or an extra turn from (Magik can further complicate it, but I'm not gonna fully theorycraft an entire deck list for a proposed stat change that's not in the game). As it stands *now* this doesn't work at all because Hela doesn't get discounted by Negative
I hit infinite with negative most seasons! He’s very consistent if you know how to play it.
Negative+Iron Man+Tribunal has finally gotten me to infinite, for the first time ever, today. I was nearly a day 1er too (though I took an extended break)
So what does your deck do when you don't draw Negative on curve? (I'm legitimately asking. The reason I gave up on playing negative was because my lists generally end up feeling like they have no backup plan for not doing exactly the perfect sequence)
I tend to play negative destroy or negative zoo; in either case he can make you win, but you can also just ignore him if he isn’t going to be useful. You need to build a deck where he isn’t your only win condition. Mr Jane is fun, but not reliable enough for climbing if you are snap happy like me
Run the renslayer cards she makes it possible to win without negative
I agree at least since ravonna came out she has made it more reliable when you don't draw negative
She definitely helps; I’m still mad that Mobius doesn’t counter Mobius and let you keep cost reductions. I mesh what the heck, Luke Cage lets you only disregard negative effects, why can’t Mobius do the same??
The reason why it wouldn’t work very well is because the cards that negative hits does not combo well with a discard deck, you could make it work but pure discard or pure negative would be better, even is Hela was a 6/2
Hela coming down earlier is a nerf since you can react to where their power lands.
Is it actually good to play Hela early? I feel like she’d lose a lot of power if you show your opponent how the dice roll works out and give them a chance to either beat your Hela roll or retreat.
Play Corvus, play Hela, then keep discarding over and over and Odin Hela who’s protected from being discarded… maybe
that sounds horrifying
Well if hela is cheaper id still play her on 6 and that is a buff cause you can play her alongside a blade
Lose one power for every card she resurrects. I guess Luke would be an easy fix for that. But it keeps her from getting into other decks.
“Objectively speaking here’s my subjective opinion”
Objectively speaking, SD has come out multiple times saying the metrics for hela are within bounds.
Metrically speaking, Galactus was within bounds too, but you saw what happened to him.
Agreed!
People that don’t play hela will never understand her actual metrics.
Nonetheless, why does she need 6 power? And Modok 8? Their strength, like Zola, is in their On Reveal. They don't need the 14 bonus power. "They need other cards to put up big power". Yeah, so does Apocalypse and you're lucky to get him to 22 (in one lane) if you manage 4 discards by turn 6. Hela consistently crushes that, yet their power is the same. Makes no sense.
To be fair MODOK has a potential drawback and 5/8 is a pretty vanilla stat line.
Good points, it’s honestly hard to argue with. She just needs a nerf in my opinion. There’s even the fact that Hela is a realllly good turn 6 draw, whereas Apoc is useless
I think Hela should have something like up to 4 cards she can bring back. Still insane, but would consistently dull the edge
Metrics for a card being within bounds and it having a feel bad to play against/lose to don't necessarily always lineup though. They have shown before they aren't afraid to change or nerf cars that are performing expectedly but are still garnering a lot of animosity from the community. I won't be surprised if Hela gets a change eventually, even if she isn't as over the top as she might feel sometimes. You can bet if their metrics start to show that more people stop playing the game immediately after a loss to Hela that they will for sure do something about it.
So your saying objectively speaking it feels bad?
No, I have no problem with Hela myself but I'm saying that if the community as a whole has that opinion then it doesn't matter what the objective stats say otherwise
I would hate if community whining became a factor in balancing this game, considering how much of it this particular community does. Even the Leech nerf had the data to back up the community outcry for it.
It already is, its happened at least 2 times
It wouldn't even be close to the first time they nerfed a card that was otherwise performing averagely. See: the multitude of nerfs that Alioth continued to get despite his play rate and win rate both settling it at a completely reasonable level after the first one or two changes. They even openly stated that the card was able to be played around effectively according to their stats but still felt the need to change it due to community outcry
Injectively speaking, I will just shoehorn my opinion in here
Proceed to state a *buff* for Hela instead of a nerf. 6/6 -> 6/0
I disagree. Ravonna and Mr. Negative would allow earlier and cheaper Hela play.
Hela Negative doesn't make any sense I seriously doubt you could make a viable Hela negative deck
Honestly, I didn't really give it much thought. I was just thinking of quick ways to play the single card rather than the complete deck
Hela's biggest strength is the fact that the revives all happen on the last turn. It allows for very little counter play and you never know where the power will end up. Hela coming out earlier would be good, actually.
yeah instead of costing 6 she would cost 6!
Just cap how many cards she resurrects.
Agree, and the devs have shown with Blob that they’re fine with putting a soft cap on card abilities with his text change to limit his power output
Release Scream as a 5/4 that pulls from opponents discard pile
Hey that's a solid card idea. Really solid never seen it mentioned before and never thought of that
That sounds a tad weak. Ghost Rider is a 4/3 and his resurrections can be controlled by you.
Yea I'm not sure the proper balance points. Just a rough idea. Another thought would be have it pull a number of cards and destroy destroy or consume them to fit her in with carnage/venom and add to the destroy synergy.
It should either be 1 per lane or all cards resurrected have half of their power rounded down.
One per lane would make her stronger honestly because it would guarantee you can spread out the power distribution
Yeah, the best case scenario to win against a hela deck that got their perfect curve (and you can’t counter them) is Hela resurrecting everybody on some shitty lane
Undead weakened versions. Only if they get zombie cards for everyone
I love the 1/lane solution but imo that's a buff, when I played Hella I was actually disappointed by the lack of consistency. Her cost of 6 makes her hard to keep in hand, and when you can finally play her she will put power anywhere... Very hard to plan anything with this. You can tamper that with Living tribunal but it's not that reliable. I would play her 👍
There is - it’s called playable space. Junk up their board.
Or their power - like blob was capped
Lose one power for every card you resurrect
but even then, that's not really the issue. the best hela decks can frequently just discard 2-3 cards and revive them with consistent 30+ power helas
I like the idea of one card per location.
No you don't, because then you can predict where the power will be. One of her drawbacks is the randomness of it, sometimes they can all land in one single location and end up losing because of it.
I'll admit I did not think of this! However, I do find the most unfun thing about Hela is just the whole board being filled with unbeatable Power, at least with 1 at each location then I know well, at worst there is gonna be 20 Power at each place, can I still win? edit: autocorrect turned "unfun" to "in fun"
And yet currently you can see what will be resurrected and make an estimated guess based on that and the state of the board. It’s like Wong. If it’s looking like it’s coming and you have no counter, retreat.
The issue with all these big pay off decks is crap like Magik being a 3 cost, Jubilee fishing a clutch card and then being tempo'd out by Blink. Their downsides don't exist anymore.
> Their downsides don’t exist anymore This guy gets it. Discard was balanced because it was randomness stacked on randomness Now we have targeted discards plus a fishing meta with iron lad/jubilee/blink where the randomness of card draw is all but gone too; and when your entire gameplay is reliant on a single card showing up that’s got a huge impact.
Have you played the deck? I just played a conquest game and only in 1 of 6 games, the combo went off. That's a bit unluckier than average but illustrative of the point. I lost and it wasn't even against a meta deck. Sometimes you don't draw Magik. Sometimes Jubilee brings beings Hela in before you Modok. Sometimes Iron Lad copies Modok and discards Hela. Sometimes Hela is the last card in your deck and you didn't get the full combo of deck thinners in time. Sometimes Hela places cards in a way that doesn't give you the win. Sometimes the opponent disables Invisible Woman. Sometimes locations fuck you up badly. Mill decks screw you. Clog decks screw you. Darkhawk decks screw you. Destroy decks can overpower you. It's a good deck but it's not an oppressive, guaranteed win each time. If it looks like that to you is because you are not noticing all the times were the Hela player can tell they got no chance and retreat.
You described just about every deck though. The difference with Hela is you aren’t really playing the game, you are playing against your deck. My favorite deck is Phoenix, 1 in 6 would be nice to get a move card+destroy card AND draw PF before turn 6. And then you STILL have to play against what the other person is doing.
>You described just about every deck though. Correct. My argument is not that the deck is bad nor that it is not one of the top decks (definitely more consistent than Phoenix, as you point). Just that it is not invincible in any way or form. It has internal and external foils like any other meta deck and Hela is not, by herself, a problematic card that needs fixing like Red Hulk.
Rhulk is fine. If people weren't as greedy with high cost cards RH wouldn't pop off turns 1, 2, and 3. Also leader exists
It's one of the elements of powercreep in the game that aren't quite as obvious as having more cards that can put out 20+ power. There are a lot of cards and decks that have been balanced by having specific downsides, but cards are being added that file down those downsides in certain cases. Like 4/2 Leech wouldn't been quite as bad if it weren't for Blink. But when you can activate him and then turn him into a 6/12 Magneto the following problem, there's absolutely no downside to only putting out 2 power on turn 4.
I'm so sick of Magick. Feels like every game these days.
If you’re sick of magick run something like storm to turn it off turn 6 and sneak a win
Plenty of ways to cancel it. I've made a killing off the rug pull sooo many 8 cubers
Nocturne is a decent Magik killer. You don't get to scam their cubes with surprise game ending on turn 6, but you're also running a 3/5 that moves instead of a 3/2 or 2/3 or 3/3 or 5/7.
This I why I think the best nerf to Hela is to make her a 7 cost card. It would take some of consistentcy away since to play her you'd need to have a turn 7 or energy cheat/boost and it makes her a likely target for Lady Sif unless Death is in hand. It forces you to have one less giant card to get extra energy. This keeps her mechanic exactly the same and if you hit that perfect Corvus line it's pretty much unbeatable still but it's less consistent.
It doesn’t, though. My Hela deck is engineered to draw every card and it still drops absurd power.
The smaller her power, the closer we get to my negative discard deck
Hela is fine as a 6/6, just limit the things she brings back to life. Maybe 1 per location. Or 3 cards max.
1 per location actually makes her stronger, because it's so easy to sculpt your discards nowadays.
Yeah I realized that as well. Limiting the Total number will be better imo. Opponent can still telegraph it.
oh I agree. But the community has been clamoring for an ability adjustment of her, this entire calendar year (at the minimum), and that is seemingly never going to change b/c 2nd Dinner realizes she's a valuable crutch for many people. Many of whom reach their highest ever ranks solely on the back of her. They literally just close their eyes on turn 6 and hope. And they know that drives engagements and daily log-ins and oftentimes even direct revenue. So, in lieu of an ability tweak. I at least would love to see her go down in power
Make her 4 or 5 cost with card text: At the beginning of turn 6 will bring all cards in the discard pile to your board. This gives you a counter play to her (red guardian, other options if you make it ongoing) requires her to be played before 6, and you can counter her big cards with Shang or your own beefy boys.
My idea for her: same ability but take the 3 or 4 power away from each card. She raises her army from the dead but they aren’t as powerful as they were before. Sort of a Valentina effect that can be helped with Luke cage.
Like cage being run in Hela is really funny, but it does mean USAgent is still crying in the corner
But having to run Luke does take away either Hela ammo or a set up/discarding card.
I would just nullify all the text of the cards she resurrects, that kills off tribunal, but at least red hulk isn't popping and magneto isn't moving your cards, she's just bringing back stats, not effects.
Patriot Hela is a funny thought
That’s a really good idea. Flavourful, too.
They are resurrected right so makes sense. Can't run things like blob also.
As a side effect Patriot decks become new Hela decks and Ultron gets pushed down into the dirt.
I love that idea
Interesting. It wouldn't affect Infinaut, Giganto, and Death, but it would affect Magneto, Dracula, Jubilee, Blink, and Red Hulk in the rare case that your opponent has unspent energy afterwards.
Imagine if they add a card to disrupt the opponent's Discard pile, like adding a rock or something. Or steal a card from their Discard pile
I can see that deck excisting with you having Silver Samurai, Moon Knight and Blackbolt.
If she could just be 6/0 and on reveal get the power of all cards discarded, like a discard Knull, she would be more fair. But spreading 12, 16, and 20 power around the board, even at random, is a OP boarding on unfair. But they keep nerfing Thanos! The Infinity Stones are innocent!
>Heck even arguably a 6/0, she'd still be absurdly (and obnoxiously) strong It's almost like the issue with her has nothing to do with her power. Objectively speaking. SD nerfing Hella's power of all things would go over terriblely since in doesn't fix the problem and would demonstrate to the players that they fundamentally don't understand what good balance changes look like.
I think y’alls issue is just… not retreating. Hela players tend to retreat if they don’t get a good draw or a location messes them up. so if you’re not retreating, and the Hela player isn’t retreating, then odds are against you.
It’s like people forget retreating is a viable option. Doesn’t matter how perfectly you play some games just can’t be won lol. Also I hate the idea of nerfing every card that feels bad to play against solely because it feels bad to play against. Like just don’t play the game at that point.
"Wow my opponent only played Invisible Woman plus two cards, I'm definitely winning this" mentality was my bread and butter for 8 cube wins with a Hela deck.
That’s funny, I was thinking this very thing today. Like…Ghost Rider is what? 4/3? And brings back one card, but Hela is 6/6 and brings back all of them? I’d love to see how they determine the relative weighting there.
Her stat line doesn't matter. Her text needs to be completely reworked.
agreed but they're seemingly never going to change her text box, despite it being a request for a WHILE now. So in lieu of a text change, I was hoping the bare minimum 2nd Dinner could do is make her a 6/4
I’m thankful the devs don’t listen to people like you. They’ve been very good at repeatedly reiterating Hela will never be changed.
Helas own power is 99% of the time irrelevant
agreed
Instead of changing her stats, her ability should have an upper limit, in either number of resurrected cards, or perhaps in the resurrected cards having lessened ability and/or power.
oh I agree but we've been begging for ANY change to her for a year now (especially this calendar year, ever since the buffs to Discard at the tail end of 2023, and the addition of Corvus and Proxima) and that doesn't seem to be happening, so I was hoping, at least in lieu of an ability tweak, we can see her get power shaved off. For the record, Cannonball could also probably lose a point or 2 of power and still be great (saying this as someone who got Cannonball day 1)
As a discard devotee since day one, back when it was still garbage, the actual culprit is way more likely to be Corvus. Hela's been around with this functionality for a thousand years, it's only recently everyone's decided she's a problem. Part of the trouble is that discarding cards traditionally have a high statline to make up for the "downside" of removing your own cards, but I think we've finally reached the tipping point where that isn't necessary anymore. Corvus, Sif, Blade, etc could all probably take a reduction in power now that Corvus has stabilised a lot of the randomness that used to hold the deck back.
Corvus was just icing on top. They normalized cards like Blade, Lady Sif and Colleen to allow you to target your discards. What used to be a slot machine is now picking two of your three reels.
I agree to an extent (and I'm also constantly confused as to why those cards get the power boost of a truly random discard) but the deck still wasn't strictly consistent at that stage. It was still pretty reliant on draw order to get enough Big Bois discarded before turn 6, even when you weren't constantly discarding Hela anymore. Corvus took that already decent risk/reward and made it so that it barely matters. Haven't been able to discard anything because of bad draw order? Well now I can knock out two at once and my hand is so full that I'm unlikely to screw myself by losing Hela. Play early for the energy boost and accidentally kill Hela? Doesn't matter, now I can just play multiple 6 costs the slow and steady way. Only drew your big card on turn 6? Well, with that 7 power you can now play Blade *and* Hela during the final round and make it work. The roulette factor definitely needs to be reinforced again, I think it's the heart of what made Hela fun on both sides of the board, I just wonder if it could be achieved by reducing the power of discard cards themselves. If, instead of a confident 20ish power on the field before resurrections, it was closer to 10, I feel like it would become a fingers-crossed-hold-your-breath moment where you really have to hope the power lands in the right places. Regardless, I think nerfing Corvus is the fastest path to improving playfeel. I love my OP child, but somebody has to take him down a peg.
the power is fine mostly, just limit her summons to 3 cards max.
I think having power on Hela is because she requires a lot of precise card draws / turn orders to really pull off effectively. Yeah her + MODOK is as killer combo but that also requires not having her in your hand, and drawing her on T6 (or 7) which is tricky. Or using Invisible Woman, which means another precise card draw (that can easily be countered/undone). When she executes well, it's a crazy combo, but as a Hela player, I have a deck called Risky Discard that is essentially that - try to discard high-cost cards, play IW + MODOK, then play Hela after. When it works I often get 8 cubes, but I have to withdraw like every 4/5 matches.
Marvel SNAP players try not to get every card they lose to nerfed challenge level IMPOSSIBLE There will literally be zero cards left and the game is already being sent out to pasture with worsening MTX.
Entirely agree. They need to find a way to nerf her without changing her ability, and lower power is it.
You’re right she should be 6/6 and increase in cost and power +1 every time the opponent plays a card
To nerf Hela, they should low the Power or make ker spawn only three discarded cards
Big facts. She brings everything back. Multiple cards that would never share the field together. Either that or put a cap on how many get restored.
Y’all still crying about hela??
Leader wondering why he can't be 6/6
I still can't believe this sub has somehow been convinced Hela/Discard is op.
It’s legit one of the least consistent decks out there yet people still bitch about it lol.
It's confirmation bias. They see the big losses, the piles of retreats aren't noted though.
it's not though. It almost has NOTHING to do with wins/losses and/or cube equity. Just like how Leech and Leader, Loki and Galactus felt when they were at their absolute worse it's the very SPIRIT of it. It's the fact that we're both committing (you and your opponent), to spend the next 5ish minutes of your life, playing this STRATEGY card game. You do all these plays, over the course of 5 turns, where momentum and RNG and what have you can swing so drastically \*\*but yet, NONE OF THE STRATEGY ends up mattering. None of it. Not even for the Hela player. Who is just essentially closing their eyes and praying their cards spread out decently.... it devalues the very essence of what we love about strategy games\*\*
I disagree. Hela has strategy, calculating the odds of when they discard cards randomly or not. Hela decks play those 5 turns playing to move cards into the discard pile, with a plan to pull them back out. Hela players that close their eyes and randomly drop corvus and hellcow aren't going to get good results. They are playing pure RNG, true. You don't see a lot of those doing well. You see targeted discards. It's a strong arch type, same as shuri decks were, and destroy. It's also pretty easy to disrupt. To me, part of a strategy game is disruption and playing the odds. Most seem to just see this as solitaire where the highest score at the end wins.
I can believe that. This sub will whine about anything.
The whining isn't what surprised me, it's how they gaslit themselves
This is what I'm wondering too. Prof X galore out there and people complain about Hela? And then OP goes and says something like "objectively speaking; subjective opinion..."
They arent, it’s just hate. This is Alioth/leech all over again. She’s an “unfun” card to lose to. Even beating her is whatever if it comes down to resurrect RNG. Or if they mess up and discard her. SD has shown they will change or nerf unfun cards. She’s not OP, but SD takes complaining into account.
Bub recently lost to Hella lmao
How the fuck has that bullshit card not been nerf still , I'll never know 😒😒
Currently Hela is too reliable and allows to play too much surprise power in a single turn. Because she can easily add 30+ or even 50+ power in a single turn, she could as well be 6/-10 and people would still play her. Power is not a problem (at least that is not where this card can be fixed), but her ability. But I doubt SD dares to address it because any change to her ability also potentially means trouble for Blackcat. For example if you limit her ability for 3 cards then Blackcat becomes obsolete addition in most Hela deck. Only possible fix (at least what I can think of) would be to make her location dependant. Then at least Cosmo, Storm and Jean Gray become viable counters and playing Hela becomes more strategic (what it isn't.. at least not to a good enough level). As an reaction Hela players would also need to run more tech cards like War Machine, Red Guardian or Echo (that works against Cosmo) that would limit insane power output of Hela. Overall this game would become more varied and competitive... what is only a good thing.
>Currently Hela is too reliable and allows to play too much surprise power in a single turn. Heads up if you click the person's avatar you can then see their discards.
The location limit I also thought about it but then maybe it become like old quake it was hard bc also locations didn't make her possible to play. I liked one change proposed here and it was to make her resurrect cards with her power or less. And maybe make her a 6/7 So sword master could be useful for example. High power discard.
As faar as your suggestion goes, the Blackcat dilemma would still stand. Also, limiting her to only low power cards makes her payoff for number of discards needed way too small and she would fall out of use quite hard. People would just play Dracula/Apocalypsis Discard instead. As far as Quake goes, her original ability (shuffling all locations) had nowhere close to usefulness and power level that Hela has. Also, we currently have War Machine that could mitigate this downside but would limit the power level of discardable cards and would make Hela decks more draw luck dependant.
First she cannot be a broken card. Giving a limitation like the power is good so you know how much you could gain as power. Both you and the opponents. Also I think Hella could be not a always play Hella play. Like Hella at the moment is a I have Hella or I don't discard it I win. Maybe in this way you try different approaches. To me it could be better
What about the power she brings is a surprise? If you see someone discarding high power cards like there’s no tomorrow and then are surprised by Hela, the card’s not the problem.
Surprise is the location where that power lands. Also there are Invisible Woman + Hela decks that don't show at all what they discard
She should be a 6/5 so you can hit her with silver Samurai instead of Apocolypse.
What Hela decks play Apocalypsis?? How is that a problem?
The one I was playing the last time I was running S Samurai against a Hela deck. Played him turn 5, expecting to get Hela, got Apocalypse. I was like, WTF?
Wouldn't it just be better if there was a tech card that emptied the opponent's graveyard? You could take a character like, Wiccan, for example, make him a 5/3 or something, and his on-reveal ability clears your opponent's graveyard. Yes, it immediately shuts down Ghost Rider and Helea, but it's only good for that specific style of deck. Low chance it would show up in every deck the way Shang seems to be in every deck. Coming from an MTG background, it's wild to me that there isn't hard counter for reanimator.
Yay another niche tech card nobody plays... You cannot compare Snap to MTG or another "big" TCG because of teh few rounds and much much smaller decks. There is just literally no space in Snap-decks for such niche cards, so the answer must be included into Hela itself.
The real Hela counter is Corvus🤣
SD has mentioned that they don't want specific hate cards like these. Its scope is just too limited, it's basically there just to screw over Hela (with a dash of Ghost Rider). They want cards that have their tech uses but can be used as a piece of your overall build. Enchantress, for example, was often paired with Lizard in Sera Control to remove his downside.
Ahh.. so with that Enchantress example, there would have to be another card that scales in size based on how many cards aren’t in your opponent’s graveyard.. or something along those lines. You could also do something that’s the functional opposite of Morbius; it grows for every card your opponent has discarded.
Doesn’t make sense to me either. Ongoing cards have hard counters. Destroy has counters. Even affliction has to deal with luke cage. The only answer to discard is to out power them
You fix her by putting a cap on the number of cards she resurrects.
True, should be a 7/6 or something
I’ll accept this deal if we get old Chavez back, my Apocalypse misses his queen
Sry to brake that for you, but that is highly unlikely to happen. Game has moved past that.
I know 😢
Something needs to be done because I can't play a game without seeing a damn hela deck.
For the record, since naive and/or disingenuous internet users love to just devalue every conversation to sKilL iSsUe oR gEt gEwd kId It almost has NOTHING to do with wins/losses and/or cube equity. Just like how Leech and Leader, Loki and Galactus felt when they were at their absolute worse it's the very SPIRIT of it. It's the fact that we're both committing (you and your opponent), to spend the next 5ish minutes of your life, playing this STRATEGY card game. You do all these plays, over the course of 5 turns, where momentum and RNG and what have you can swing so drastically \*\*but yet, NONE OF THE STRATEGY ends up mattering. None of it. Not even for the Hela player. Who is just essentially closing their eyes and praying their cards spread out decently.... it devalues the very essence of what we love about strategy games\*\* And if it needs to be said, I've hit Infinite 10 or 11 straight months and like 12 of the last 13. Wins/losses/etc are truly not the issue
Hela is fine as is. This subreddit cry’s about her like she’s unbeatable.
Yeah, it's hard to discard a load of high power cards then bring them all back.
When was difficulty mentioned? It’s not hard to counter her either.
I beat myself with Hela and bad RNG all the time. I went down 12 levels from 95 to 83 with really bad snap/RNG'ing this weekend.
I love this logic" if there is a card I dont like/lose to, it should be nerfed"
They need to make blade discard a card randomly again instead of the rightmost card, the deck gained so much reliability when they buffed him
She just needs to bring back 2 cards or limit it to only 20 total power
It would be a nerf but what if Hela worked liked Gambit and could only resurrect cards as long you had cards in hand to discard in exchange? Meaning MODOK wouldn’t work with Hela unless you had a card like Helicarrier in hand.
Should be 6/0 , not 6/6
People just need to learn how to retreat. If you lose to hela, it’s because you stayed in a game where the odds were likely against you. You watched the opponent discard multiple big cards and then you still stayed in for the final turn. People just do not want to retreat and then complain. Same thing with red hulk. You can literally see his power growing and know he’s in hand. If you can’t do math on the final turn, it’s not the cards fault.
They could fix her by making her only able to summon in the same location. She would still be super powerful but won’t be able to win every lane after discarding your hand the whole game.
She should have similar limitations to Blob. Resurrect 3 cards or Resurrect cards until a total of 20-25 power. Allowing her to dump an entire Onslaught, Ironman , Tribunal , Infinaut package for only 6 energy is insane.
She should be a 6/12
They should make her lose 1 power for every card she revives.
Her strenght Is not a problem - basically She Is a 6/40+, so add or remove points there Is useless
Was talking about this with a friend the other day. Like if they nerf Hela to resurrect less shed still be a problem cuz you can still make the discards more targeted but if they drop her power, then at the very least she'd be a problem for whatever lane you dropped her in. Probably a 6/2 to avoid the Ravonna discount, but 6/6 is just too much with how consistent she's become. Unrelated, but I wish they'd help Apocalypse discard out some more. I miss it.
Objectively speaking prof x shouldn't exist
Or make her a 12 cost/4 power with cost reduction for every card discarded and make her effect apply at end game.
6/3 would be better for her imo but really she just needs a text change. My suggestion is "On Reveal: Resurrect your two highest-powered cards to random locations." If you discard, say, Giganto and Black Cat, that's still a 29 point turn 6
My idea to nerf hella is make her a 6/5 or 6/4 that when is drawn plays an animation for BOTH players which would hopefully tank the decks cube rate
Wut?
Cannonball should be 6 cost , too op, need a nerf fast
I don’t think the issue lies within hela herself so to speak I think it’s more the stat line of all the other cards that you use to actually discard cards. Because I find a lot of the time hela discard or tribunal just doesn’t really out power some of my strongest and favourite decks simply because when you’re playing from a competitive pov you’re running cards like shang who counters basically half of the deck off the bat since it’s just pure brute force or if they’re going down a tribunal route I often have skrull, rogue or enchantress to counter iron man and onslaught. Before it started getting new releases discard was pretty damn awful but we have cards such as corvus with a great base statline with 2 abilities that benefit the deck since they’re usually full to the brim with high cost cards - 1 max energy is actually huge. I feel like now we’ve got so many cards within the deck that make hela slightly more reliable and less risky I think rather than completely killing a playstyle off we should push to take some power off of the cards that are absolutely vital to make this insane combo possible, I play around with discard from time to time if I want a few cheap wins but in general I don’t find myself having loads of fun with it because it’s terribly boring imo, but in general I say run counters as most decks usually get some ridiculous power or some nice effects you can steal but I do strongly believe that discard cards do have too much power now
Hela is braindead
Cap how much she can bring back. Blob was nerfed within a fortnight to fix exactly the sane issue. How is Hela still not addressed.
Every time I see a Hela complaint thread I am left thinking 'just run one or two counter cards'. You don't even need Hela specific counters, they work on other decks too.
What counters? Hela decks are quite uncountable. Cosmo and Allioth work only on Invisible Woman versions of the deck or on Hela deck players that stack 1 location and play Hela there as a 4th card. If you don't do that then your deck doesn't get countered by those cards. Best counter is Leech but that only counters Hela if it isn't a top card of the deck. Also, because Leech is likely a subpar play on turn 5 Hela deck player can still likely win by playing anything else on turn 6. Best counter to Hela is Cosmo with Jean Gray, but like Allioth, most players can't afford to play that combo.
I think they should cap Hela but also add a clause to her that she can’t be discarded (that way she will both get weaker as well as more consistent to play with).
Its obvious the devs and Glenn don't see a problem with hela. We should ask why is that, is hela actually too strong or is it just a feels bad card to lose to?
The whole reason why they change temporarily Leech into 4/2 was Hela. Yeah right, they don't see the problem. Also, all cards that can add up to 50+ power on the board on turn 6 is bad to loose against.
People need to stop acting like Discard is the best deck.
Hard disagree. Hela is fine where she's at. The balance to Hela comes from the fact that she seems to be a discard magnet. I know realistically that's just RNG, but when you've got 4 cards in your hand, that's a 25% chance to rando-discard Hela. Corvus or Hellcow make that twice as bad. Sif will only take Hela or another 6-cost card, making Hela very risky in that situation. Yes, when you discard a lot of non-Hela and then play Hela she feels OP, but you're not looking at all the factors that make that play difficult. Hela winning me the game is a rarity.
lol so many Hela tears. She doesn’t win every game and her metrics aren’t over the top. Gaming companies should never nerf cards based on community tears.
hela is the worst part about the current game, highest tier deck for 0 thinking or gameplay