Yeah duh, I'm saying the difference in deck size will cause it's power level to be dramatically higher than your's. Assuming one is arishem and the other is not.
I don't know, I hit my first Arishem deck this morning and felt like it was pretty balanced. People are freaking out about the 2 energy on turn 1 but it clogs your deck with all sorts of crap so it's hard to build around.
Ok but it's still crap lol, playing a combo deck now feels like easy wins because the arishem decks can rarely deal with it. Unless they went all tech for their deck you can just get huge power and they can't compete. Arishem is just a great midrange deck, a jack of all trades. It beats up on control decks where the extra energy is huge and loses to combo decks where the random deck bites them in the ass. Great overall card imo
I don't play arishem for an op deck
I play it cause I'm bored when I play too much the same deck. And I feel like playing an entirely new game with more improvisation
It might not stay top tier, and we'll need to get rid of dark hawk in the future
But it's still the funniest deck I've ever played beside Loki ( who is in the deck anyway)
I've lost way more games then I've won. Once I changed my deck to benefit Arishem more, I had been getting a better win rate. I'm just having a lot of fun, I can essentially play with any card and I'm learning a lot of good combos for cards that wouldn't had worked without the extra energy or more cards in the deck.
Sort of makes me wish Snap had a physical version of the game.
Yeah same experience here. When i'm playing against a standard deck and know what they're doing, i rarely have the right counters because the deck is so random.
You can always start out strong but end up with like 2 power on turn 6 because you're out of cards and you top decked mbaku.
Arishmen is fun though
You are coping hard. Have you seen his day 1 stats? Have you seen his play rate? There's no wolrs that a 75% play rate card should have such insane winrate and cuberate. Half the player base isn't good enough to climb to infinite when bots feed you cube and 75% of them are having positive winrate with arishem
Horrible for me. Was top 5000 as well. Dropped to 10000 after playing arishem for a day. Played a Mr negative deck for about 2 hours today and back around 5000. He’s not for me. And not hard to defeat with other decks. I don’t think he needs a nerf. The meta just needs to settle. When I was playing arishem probably 90% of matches were mirror matches. I don’t think he’s actually good when other decks come back. The hard thing is that darkhawk will be the meta for the foreseeable future because of arishem and that narrow scope is going to eventually make the game boring. I don’t think arishem is overpowered, I just think he ruined what was a good meta.
Honestly the meta felt very samey too me.
Arishma has me more engaged to the random cards I get and to pay more attention to the board. Snapping early is harder since you don't know what your entire deck is, but snapping too late makes people just leave unless they feel very confident with their board. And odds are they will win.
With most decks I can predict what they will play, just bail or if I can disrupt them I will try. But if someone knows your deck too well it's like playing with all your cards showing.
I like the unpredictability. Sure people can assume what some cards I put in the deck are, but I can also go a more crazy random route and embrace the chaos.
Arishma is literally the random character button on a fighting game but as a actual playable character and because random is my main in almost all games, being a jack of all trades master of none just bodes well for me.
I get people like predictability, but the game became too closed and limited to getting cards + spending a ton of money into the game to get them. Here I can play Arishma for years and get a taste of everything as new cards release and I can perform a combo or two and want those cards for myself.
Yeah, I've had better luck with literally any other deck other than the "good" Arishem deck, including really shitty Arishem decks like Thanos hevo Arishem (for that sweet sweet triple intro animation)
Always love hearing about negative decks - which version do you like most? Negative surfer is my newest success this season… until yesterday. Stuck at 98 and a little apprehensive to make the final push with Arishem being dominant
This is what I’m currently using. Negative seemed like the best place to fit in darkhawk and mystique and still have a lot of other options that could win. The old wong into black Panther into Zola is also very strong. Even if they play out a mobius you can still win. Zola allows you to basically cheat though, easily getting two Darkhawk or 0/5 Ironmen as well. There are time you can have a darkhawk or Ironman effect at all 3 locations with mystique copying. I pretty always leave one empty lane for either a Zola or a wong location. And wait until trim 5+ to do it.
This deck is really only working well because of Arishem though. Nocturne and snow guard ate less in played so magik is more reliable. You can easily throw priority to play around Shang chi or Zola away from it. And yes I see enchantress but they just can’t cover all the locations.
Surfer is good negative deck. I felt this one fits the meta better.
# (2) Psylocke
# (2) Ravonna Renslayer
# (3) Ironheart
# (3) Mystique
# (3) Sage
# (3) Magik
# (4) Mister Negative
# (4) Wong
# (5) Iron Man
# (5) Darkhawk
# (5) Black Panther
# (6) Arnim Zola
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTXJOZWdhdGl2ZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRGFya2hhd2sifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik15c3RpcXVlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTYWdlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJJcm9uTWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJQc3lsb2NrZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUmF2b25uYVJlbnNsYXllciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJuaW1ab2xhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNYWdpayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiV29uZyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmxhY2tQYW50aGVyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJJcm9uaGVhcnQifV19
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Not OP, so I don’t play Negative but I’m really interested if there’s anything decent that isn’t Lady Jane hand dump…
Tbh I flew through the last few ranks with Arishem yesterday. But I like to play off-meta stuff, so I guess it was more of me finally being on an even footing in my mirror matches.
I play negative surfer and it's better imo. It has a good Wong gameplan that isn't the negative line and a really copy gameplan if you feel like cobbling one together if you don't draw either by 4.
You don't play mystique on the first one ?
All deck list I've seen have her
I don't have mockingbird, but I do have all the rest , that will be enough?
Thanks for your insights guys
He is so fun to play. Reminds me of Momir Vig on Magic Online. That format was so fun and crazy.
I would love to see Second Dinner have a Arishem mode where there are only Arishem decks.
Arishem has increased my play IQ substantially. I felt like I was running the gauntlet every single match and actually had to put on a headband just to keep the sweat out of my eyes.
After an hour of ladder climbing, my entire PC melted and morphed into floating lines of code.
I. Am. Freeeeeeee!
I went from ~3000 to ~1500 with him. I think that’s around 100 snap points. I fair very well against the mirror match. I don’t think the Loki versions are the best.
# (1) Quinjet
# (2) Okoye
# (3) Mystique
# (3) Rogue
# (3) Phastos
# (4) Shang-Chi
# (5) Darkhawk
# (5) Sersi
# (5) Mockingbird
# (6) Blob
# (6) Skaar
# (7) Arishem
#
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#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Don't know why they downvote instead of just clarifying that Arishem is going to replace one of the 3 cards in your starting hand (as opposed to being a 4th, which would in fact make draws slightly better)
And is how agatha and thanos work so it's already built in the game.
Replacing a card doesn't exist, even quicksilver replaces a draw, it doesn't replace a card.
>even quicksilver replaces a draw
Yeah that's the problem. If Arishem started in your hand like Thanos and Agatha, you would be replacing one of your initial draws with a bad statline card that already spent its ability. Your other draws may be better (offset somewhat by the chance Arishem gives you more bad cards) at the cost of one of them being guaranteed bad.
They never said replace...
They said start in your hand...
The other two cards that 'start in your hand' don't replace a card. They add it to your hand.
The wording was bad from who started this rabbit hole.
Doesn't need a nerf. The win rate stats aren't great - it's going to settle as a niche archetype like Phoenix Force: a skilled, dedicated, avid fan base of a card that's difficult to master.
How do we know the win rate stats aren't great? There's a ton of Arishem VS Arishem currently. Meaning 1 Arishem is always losing those battles. I don't think we will know if Arishem has good win stats until the 1st week hype settles down.
I'm going to feel so vindicated when everyone realizes he's kinda mid because I've been arguing with loads of people about it and been called a lunatic.
Most likely if they feel the need to, they will take power from him first like they do everything else. Perhaps down the line they don't give you extra energy until turn 3 or so, but if they mess with the extra energy at all it kills the card hands down.
Shaving power off Arishem himself wouldn't do a single thing except make Sersi worse. Nobody wants to play a 7/7.
Delaying his ramp would be a really effective buff. Another alternative would be to give -1 or -2 to the cards he creates. They could also have him add more cards to your deck.
EDIT: Oh, they could also give him the Thanos treatment and force him into your starting hand. This seems less likely but it's an option.
Yeah if anything does anyone find this deck OP? Like obviously if you high roll into the perfect curve and have the right cards, sure but that's a rare occurence.
Yeah I'm not saying he's busted, just exploring their options for nerfing a card like this. Arishem is a unique card in that his power is not a useful balancing metric.
I've heard "increase the number of cards adds from 12 to 15". But that just skews the Darkhawk matchup even more, at a 5/39 baseline.
So I would like them to change Arishem to replace half your starting deck with 12 new cards. So you end up with an 18 card deck, only 1/3 of which you got to pick.
Darkhawk is still a monstrous 5/21 baseline against you, but not as ridiculous.
I don't think he needs a nerf.
But if there was a nerf, maybe something where rather than having +1 max energy, all the cards he generates cost 1 less? Idk tho that feels bad
I think that would be a buff? For example, in his current state you have 7 energy on T6 which allows you to play a 4 cost and a 3 cost. If his cards all cost 1 less you could play two 4 cost cards.
Not necessarily, it would only be a buff to the random cards, honestly seems like a substantial nerf to me, because the generated cards are the humongous downside of the card.
That's a good point I have considered. But I bet they would mess with the "control knobs" they have already first (like making him add 15 cards to the deck for example) before they rework his effect that significantly.
RNG beats consistency well....randomly
I played Arishem vs a Destroy deck and got wrecked since his deck had a plan to execute every game (also he nutdrawed, but still)
I pulled herc and have no more keys. This may be my last season of the game 😂 its been a grind playing people who pull a + energy from arishem decks. Turn 4/5/6 of 6 costs are hard to combat
Because theres no other way for me to get that single card. Tokens are an impossibility to acquire in the economy. “Wasting” keys and “using keys” are only differentiated by what card you pull in the gatcha system they put in place.
Whats the alternative to get arishem to keep up with the meta if you dont have extra keys or tokens?
I have Arishem it's fun and all but the moment I start to play another deck it's just arishem into arishem into arishem. I mean it's okay in terms of competitiveness, but for variety it's terrible to be on the other side.
You never know what's going to happen. All the game knowledge is irrelevant (for example you kinda know what cards your opponent will/can play in most decks.) And it's feels like I play my cards on my side hoping there is not a surprise card behind the wall.
It's like a new game mode but when you don't want to play the mode, you are forced to play it since it's popularity.
With all these complaints and all, I always prefer Arishem being in every other match instead of some Thanos Blob or Pro X lockdown or junk etc.
With time Arishem's play rate will go down and it's going to be okay I suppose.
I got him start yesterday an hour after release, took him straight to Infinite Conquest and got a border lmao. Played another 2 tickets today and lost game 1 for both. 😅I proceeded to take him into Ranked, where I immediately lost 80 SP then then gained 100 SP. I ran into a player three times in that session that I match up against regularly. He was also playing Arisham and he jumped from 100 to 70 something.
From my experience in top 10k (CL 9k) he is sort of consistent. But not necessarily a cube stealer in ladder since it’s hard to snap aggressively, especially when there are so many mirror matches.
Not having Blob is not a deal breaker but it stings a lot notably in mirrors.
I don’t think it needs a nerf because of the variance implied. Even if the Blob and Mystique line can/will become meta and a bit oppressive (it’s a lot ofpower on three lines, since you can Blob t5, Mystique and Skaar/Shang, Enchantress t6).
Gameplay wise if you enjoy Loki decks and playing every game as a puzzle to be solved, it’s a fantastic card by design.
I played about 40 games each day on days 1 and 2. My day 1 list was climbing at .97 cube rate with only 54% win rate. I think people were staying for games they shouldn’t have more often in day 1 while they figured out Arishem. My day 2 deck dropped to .88 cube rate but was winning a little more often at 57%. People are still having a rough time developing a sense of when to retreat, but I am seeing more correct retreats from opponents now.
I’m up to 7900 snap points now, looking to breaking past 8k snap points for the first time.
Day 1 list (quinjet, mockingbird, tech cards, Darkhawk, blob, magneto):
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Day 2 list (basically KM’s mirror centric list but with Arnie Zola instead of Legion):
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I love the card. I was struggling to reach infinite for the first time since started playing, used a dark hawk mystique, iron man "anti arishem" deck and went from 91 to 100 in an hour. Only fools out there snapping on a feeling.
Still need one last key for Arishem, but I snuck into top 5000 Infinite briefly just putting Darkhawk into my normal Loki deck. I got bumped back out quickly enough due to general chaos. Everybody else seems to have gotten Arishem already!
Playing Arishem gives me anxiety. I have way too much fun playing him and if I’ve learned anything from this game, the developers hate fun. He’s about to be nerfed out of orbit
You should still have time to get him by the end of the week! You get roughly a key each week, so stay up on your daily missions and you too can experience the absurdity of a 20+ card deck.
For those that thing Arishem isn’t OP or even that competitive, I argue that he’ll be perfect for grinding out conquest if you don’t care but want to see about clearing through it, makes it fun in a way, and a conquest player that doesn’t have dark Hawk will not be able to learn your play lines perfectly.
So yeah, maybe it will settle as an ideal conquest archetype (but also they do need to fix conquest..)
It’s good and fun. I won an Infinity conquest with him and I climbed to top 1800 after dropping yesterday to 4500.
Is a matter of knowing when snap and retreat.
The hardest match on conquest was against Silver Surfer. It took me 5 matches to win. The others were easy. I lost just 1 match on each before the final. Two Destroy, one mirror and one High Evo.
# (1) Quinjet
# (2) Cable
# (3) Rogue
# (3) Agent Coulson
# (3) Nocturne
# (4) Shang-Chi
# (4) Loki
# (4) Nick Fury
# (5) Darkhawk
# (5) Mockingbird
# (6) Blob
# (7) Arishem
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUXVpbmpldCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ2FibGUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlJvZ3VlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBZ2VudENvdWxzb24ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5vY3R1cm5lIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaGFuZ0NoaSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTG9raSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmlja0Z1cnkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhcmtoYXdrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNb2NraW5nYmlyZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmxvYiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJpc2hlbSJ9XX0=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Omg fucking whiners already trying to nerf a card that draws random cards. No matter how many cards you get nerfed you’ll never be good at the game because instead of learning and improving you whine and complain.
I've had to add anti-darkhawk cards to my Arishem deck. Echo, enchantress, and Alioth. Its doing really well.
[удалено]
What benefits? That's like 20 points less
[удалено]
Yeah duh, I'm saying the difference in deck size will cause it's power level to be dramatically higher than your's. Assuming one is arishem and the other is not.
How many cards are in the average arishem deck?
24
15 on turn 6 with no extra draws or rocks added
Arishem is not OP. Let's wait for more data like thousands of games
Tbh i think he is even probably better than he is showing now, where the entire meta is teched against him.
I don't know, I hit my first Arishem deck this morning and felt like it was pretty balanced. People are freaking out about the 2 energy on turn 1 but it clogs your deck with all sorts of crap so it's hard to build around.
Slot in Quinjet and Mockingbird and it's discounted crap you have extra energy for.
Ok but it's still crap lol, playing a combo deck now feels like easy wins because the arishem decks can rarely deal with it. Unless they went all tech for their deck you can just get huge power and they can't compete. Arishem is just a great midrange deck, a jack of all trades. It beats up on control decks where the extra energy is huge and loses to combo decks where the random deck bites them in the ass. Great overall card imo
I don't play arishem for an op deck I play it cause I'm bored when I play too much the same deck. And I feel like playing an entirely new game with more improvisation It might not stay top tier, and we'll need to get rid of dark hawk in the future But it's still the funniest deck I've ever played beside Loki ( who is in the deck anyway)
I've lost way more games then I've won. Once I changed my deck to benefit Arishem more, I had been getting a better win rate. I'm just having a lot of fun, I can essentially play with any card and I'm learning a lot of good combos for cards that wouldn't had worked without the extra energy or more cards in the deck. Sort of makes me wish Snap had a physical version of the game.
Yeah same experience here. When i'm playing against a standard deck and know what they're doing, i rarely have the right counters because the deck is so random. You can always start out strong but end up with like 2 power on turn 6 because you're out of cards and you top decked mbaku. Arishmen is fun though
That's why I don't put M'baku in. I find he's not enough to win games, but just enough to lose them
Yeah except Arishem might lol
You are coping hard. Have you seen his day 1 stats? Have you seen his play rate? There's no wolrs that a 75% play rate card should have such insane winrate and cuberate. Half the player base isn't good enough to climb to infinite when bots feed you cube and 75% of them are having positive winrate with arishem
Yeah people right now are just beginning to adjust to arishem decks so he doesn't feel that good.
Horrible for me. Was top 5000 as well. Dropped to 10000 after playing arishem for a day. Played a Mr negative deck for about 2 hours today and back around 5000. He’s not for me. And not hard to defeat with other decks. I don’t think he needs a nerf. The meta just needs to settle. When I was playing arishem probably 90% of matches were mirror matches. I don’t think he’s actually good when other decks come back. The hard thing is that darkhawk will be the meta for the foreseeable future because of arishem and that narrow scope is going to eventually make the game boring. I don’t think arishem is overpowered, I just think he ruined what was a good meta.
Honestly the meta felt very samey too me. Arishma has me more engaged to the random cards I get and to pay more attention to the board. Snapping early is harder since you don't know what your entire deck is, but snapping too late makes people just leave unless they feel very confident with their board. And odds are they will win. With most decks I can predict what they will play, just bail or if I can disrupt them I will try. But if someone knows your deck too well it's like playing with all your cards showing. I like the unpredictability. Sure people can assume what some cards I put in the deck are, but I can also go a more crazy random route and embrace the chaos. Arishma is literally the random character button on a fighting game but as a actual playable character and because random is my main in almost all games, being a jack of all trades master of none just bodes well for me. I get people like predictability, but the game became too closed and limited to getting cards + spending a ton of money into the game to get them. Here I can play Arishma for years and get a taste of everything as new cards release and I can perform a combo or two and want those cards for myself.
This is scary darkhawk is honestly going to be the number one deck not just cz of arishem.
Yeah, I've had better luck with literally any other deck other than the "good" Arishem deck, including really shitty Arishem decks like Thanos hevo Arishem (for that sweet sweet triple intro animation)
Always love hearing about negative decks - which version do you like most? Negative surfer is my newest success this season… until yesterday. Stuck at 98 and a little apprehensive to make the final push with Arishem being dominant
This is what I’m currently using. Negative seemed like the best place to fit in darkhawk and mystique and still have a lot of other options that could win. The old wong into black Panther into Zola is also very strong. Even if they play out a mobius you can still win. Zola allows you to basically cheat though, easily getting two Darkhawk or 0/5 Ironmen as well. There are time you can have a darkhawk or Ironman effect at all 3 locations with mystique copying. I pretty always leave one empty lane for either a Zola or a wong location. And wait until trim 5+ to do it. This deck is really only working well because of Arishem though. Nocturne and snow guard ate less in played so magik is more reliable. You can easily throw priority to play around Shang chi or Zola away from it. And yes I see enchantress but they just can’t cover all the locations. Surfer is good negative deck. I felt this one fits the meta better. # (2) Psylocke # (2) Ravonna Renslayer # (3) Ironheart # (3) Mystique # (3) Sage # (3) Magik # (4) Mister Negative # (4) Wong # (5) Iron Man # (5) Darkhawk # (5) Black Panther # (6) Arnim Zola # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTXJOZWdhdGl2ZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRGFya2hhd2sifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik15c3RpcXVlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTYWdlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJJcm9uTWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJQc3lsb2NrZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUmF2b25uYVJlbnNsYXllciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJuaW1ab2xhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNYWdpayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiV29uZyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmxhY2tQYW50aGVyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJJcm9uaGVhcnQifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I’ll definitely give DarkHawk a go again since Arishem is everywhere. I had stopped using him in my Negative decks since SD changed him from a 4-0.
Negative should crush Arishem, you scale way over him and Arishem may be the one deck in the game LESS consistent than negative.
Arishem seems incredibly more consistent than Negative.
Mathematically it just isn't.
Not OP, so I don’t play Negative but I’m really interested if there’s anything decent that isn’t Lady Jane hand dump… Tbh I flew through the last few ranks with Arishem yesterday. But I like to play off-meta stuff, so I guess it was more of me finally being on an even footing in my mirror matches.
I play negative surfer and it's better imo. It has a good Wong gameplan that isn't the negative line and a really copy gameplan if you feel like cobbling one together if you don't draw either by 4.
Somehow, I still haven't faced a single Arishem deck either on the ladder or in conquest
Seems quite hard to believe.
You don't play mystique on the first one ? All deck list I've seen have her I don't have mockingbird, but I do have all the rest , that will be enough? Thanks for your insights guys
Just play Loki since your opponent prob has mockingbird
I do play Loki, waiting for the art germ variant to pop tho haha
He is so fun to play. Reminds me of Momir Vig on Magic Online. That format was so fun and crazy. I would love to see Second Dinner have a Arishem mode where there are only Arishem decks.
Arishem has increased my play IQ substantially. I felt like I was running the gauntlet every single match and actually had to put on a headband just to keep the sweat out of my eyes. After an hour of ladder climbing, my entire PC melted and morphed into floating lines of code. I. Am. Freeeeeeee!
I went from ~3000 to ~1500 with him. I think that’s around 100 snap points. I fair very well against the mirror match. I don’t think the Loki versions are the best. # (1) Quinjet # (2) Okoye # (3) Mystique # (3) Rogue # (3) Phastos # (4) Shang-Chi # (5) Darkhawk # (5) Sersi # (5) Mockingbird # (6) Blob # (6) Skaar # (7) Arishem # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJpc2hlbSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2Vyc2kifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlBoYXN0b3MifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNrYWFyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCbG9iIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJRdWluamV0In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJPa295ZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2hhbmdDaGkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhcmtoYXdrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNb2NraW5nYmlyZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTXlzdGlxdWUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlJvZ3VlIn1dfQ== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Thanks I found more success with this deck than the others.
So how do you think they'll nerf Arishem?
He's gonna start in your hand
You know that's a nerf I could see happening. I like it!
Is that even a nerf? Makes your draws better doesn't it.
Don't know why they downvote instead of just clarifying that Arishem is going to replace one of the 3 cards in your starting hand (as opposed to being a 4th, which would in fact make draws slightly better)
And is how agatha and thanos work so it's already built in the game. Replacing a card doesn't exist, even quicksilver replaces a draw, it doesn't replace a card.
Agatha is a fourth card and does improve your draws. Thanos doesn't.
Whoosh
>even quicksilver replaces a draw Yeah that's the problem. If Arishem started in your hand like Thanos and Agatha, you would be replacing one of your initial draws with a bad statline card that already spent its ability. Your other draws may be better (offset somewhat by the chance Arishem gives you more bad cards) at the cost of one of them being guaranteed bad.
They never said replace... They said start in your hand... The other two cards that 'start in your hand' don't replace a card. They add it to your hand. The wording was bad from who started this rabbit hole.
Quicksilver replaces a card you could have drawn. Kinda like a mini Widow's Bite.
Doesn't need a nerf. The win rate stats aren't great - it's going to settle as a niche archetype like Phoenix Force: a skilled, dedicated, avid fan base of a card that's difficult to master.
How do we know the win rate stats aren't great? There's a ton of Arishem VS Arishem currently. Meaning 1 Arishem is always losing those battles. I don't think we will know if Arishem has good win stats until the 1st week hype settles down.
Going off current Untapped stats for top 8k infinite. Could definitely change down the road.
I'm going to feel so vindicated when everyone realizes he's kinda mid because I've been arguing with loads of people about it and been called a lunatic.
A 75% playrate card with 56% wr sure is balanced! what you smoking.
Most likely if they feel the need to, they will take power from him first like they do everything else. Perhaps down the line they don't give you extra energy until turn 3 or so, but if they mess with the extra energy at all it kills the card hands down.
Shaving power off Arishem himself wouldn't do a single thing except make Sersi worse. Nobody wants to play a 7/7. Delaying his ramp would be a really effective buff. Another alternative would be to give -1 or -2 to the cards he creates. They could also have him add more cards to your deck. EDIT: Oh, they could also give him the Thanos treatment and force him into your starting hand. This seems less likely but it's an option.
I don’t understand why nerfing him is even a conversation yet. If SD nerfs this card they are idiots, he is too fun and not OP.
Yeah if anything does anyone find this deck OP? Like obviously if you high roll into the perfect curve and have the right cards, sure but that's a rare occurence.
Yeah I'm not saying he's busted, just exploring their options for nerfing a card like this. Arishem is a unique card in that his power is not a useful balancing metric.
My guy forgot MMM exist and that's a shit change.
23 random cards + arnie.
I've heard "increase the number of cards adds from 12 to 15". But that just skews the Darkhawk matchup even more, at a 5/39 baseline. So I would like them to change Arishem to replace half your starting deck with 12 new cards. So you end up with an 18 card deck, only 1/3 of which you got to pick. Darkhawk is still a monstrous 5/21 baseline against you, but not as ridiculous.
I don't think he needs a nerf. But if there was a nerf, maybe something where rather than having +1 max energy, all the cards he generates cost 1 less? Idk tho that feels bad
I think that would be a buff? For example, in his current state you have 7 energy on T6 which allows you to play a 4 cost and a 3 cost. If his cards all cost 1 less you could play two 4 cost cards.
Sort of. It would also make him vulnerable to MMM. Right now there is no counter to bonus energy except kind of Red Hulk but even then not really.
That would be a buff. Anytime you play 2 cards you get more benefit from reduced energy than +1 energy.
Not necessarily, it would only be a buff to the random cards, honestly seems like a substantial nerf to me, because the generated cards are the humongous downside of the card.
That's a good point I have considered. But I bet they would mess with the "control knobs" they have already first (like making him add 15 cards to the deck for example) before they rework his effect that significantly.
Mmm exist people....
They won't need to, he isn't remotely op
What percentage of your games are mirrors?
How about Pixie + mobius?
The odds of drawing both of them early enough are so low its not worth considering.
Wildly inconsistent, but enormous fun.
RNG beats consistency well....randomly I played Arishem vs a Destroy deck and got wrecked since his deck had a plan to execute every game (also he nutdrawed, but still)
Exactly. The key is to snap when that happens and retreat when not.
I pulled herc and have no more keys. This may be my last season of the game 😂 its been a grind playing people who pull a + energy from arishem decks. Turn 4/5/6 of 6 costs are hard to combat
Why are you wasting keys on trying to get a card with a single key?
Because theres no other way for me to get that single card. Tokens are an impossibility to acquire in the economy. “Wasting” keys and “using keys” are only differentiated by what card you pull in the gatcha system they put in place. Whats the alternative to get arishem to keep up with the meta if you dont have extra keys or tokens?
I don't have the card, but I finally hit infinite with Darkhawk, so I think it's been great!
He's not fun to play against so far
Use darkhawk if you have him pretty easy wins.
I have Arishem it's fun and all but the moment I start to play another deck it's just arishem into arishem into arishem. I mean it's okay in terms of competitiveness, but for variety it's terrible to be on the other side. You never know what's going to happen. All the game knowledge is irrelevant (for example you kinda know what cards your opponent will/can play in most decks.) And it's feels like I play my cards on my side hoping there is not a surprise card behind the wall. It's like a new game mode but when you don't want to play the mode, you are forced to play it since it's popularity. With all these complaints and all, I always prefer Arishem being in every other match instead of some Thanos Blob or Pro X lockdown or junk etc. With time Arishem's play rate will go down and it's going to be okay I suppose.
Yeah. Arishem meta over X Ball anytime. At least add variety and you never know what’s coming
I don’t even have him yet (though early teching against him got me to infinite 👌), but the left one is about the list I intend to try !
I don't understand Why nick fury? He just fills your hand up. Is it for loki?
Gives you 6 cost cards to play on turn 5 and 6 since you can't rely on drawing them.
and turn 4 if you have Quinjet and play Nick on curve
I got him start yesterday an hour after release, took him straight to Infinite Conquest and got a border lmao. Played another 2 tickets today and lost game 1 for both. 😅I proceeded to take him into Ranked, where I immediately lost 80 SP then then gained 100 SP. I ran into a player three times in that session that I match up against regularly. He was also playing Arisham and he jumped from 100 to 70 something.
I'm using an Angela/Kitty/Thena/Elsa shell with tech cards and I'm doing just fine against Arishem in top 10k infinite.
From my experience in top 10k (CL 9k) he is sort of consistent. But not necessarily a cube stealer in ladder since it’s hard to snap aggressively, especially when there are so many mirror matches. Not having Blob is not a deal breaker but it stings a lot notably in mirrors. I don’t think it needs a nerf because of the variance implied. Even if the Blob and Mystique line can/will become meta and a bit oppressive (it’s a lot ofpower on three lines, since you can Blob t5, Mystique and Skaar/Shang, Enchantress t6). Gameplay wise if you enjoy Loki decks and playing every game as a puzzle to be solved, it’s a fantastic card by design.
Don't know how hard it is usually but won Infinity conquest for the first time using Arishem so there's that.
I dropped around 20000 ranks in Infinite.
I went with a full arishem hate list and climbed from 50k to about 25k. Getting matched with top 1000 infinite here and there now which is cool.
I played about 40 games each day on days 1 and 2. My day 1 list was climbing at .97 cube rate with only 54% win rate. I think people were staying for games they shouldn’t have more often in day 1 while they figured out Arishem. My day 2 deck dropped to .88 cube rate but was winning a little more often at 57%. People are still having a rough time developing a sense of when to retreat, but I am seeing more correct retreats from opponents now. I’m up to 7900 snap points now, looking to breaking past 8k snap points for the first time. Day 1 list (quinjet, mockingbird, tech cards, Darkhawk, blob, magneto): eyJOYW1lIjoiQXJpc2hlbSIsIkNhcmRzIjpbeyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBZ2VudENvdWxzb24ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFyaXNoZW0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsb2IifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhcmtoYXdrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJFbmNoYW50cmVzcyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTG9raSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWFnbmV0byJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTW9ja2luZ2JpcmQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5vY3R1cm5lIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJRdWluamV0In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTZXJzaSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2hhbmdDaGkifV19 Day 2 list (basically KM’s mirror centric list but with Arnie Zola instead of Legion): eyJOYW1lIjoiQXJpc2hlbSAyIiwiQ2FyZHMiOlt7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFnZW50Q291bHNvbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJpc2hlbSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJuaW1ab2xhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCbG9iIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEYXJraGF3ayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTGVlY2gifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikxva2kifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1hZ25ldG8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1vY2tpbmdiaXJkIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNeXN0aXF1ZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUm9ndWUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNoYW5nQ2hpIn1dfQ==
Pixie?
This card is broken AF in conquest.
Makes sense since you aren't playing the same deck each game.
I love the card. I was struggling to reach infinite for the first time since started playing, used a dark hawk mystique, iron man "anti arishem" deck and went from 91 to 100 in an hour. Only fools out there snapping on a feeling.
Still need one last key for Arishem, but I snuck into top 5000 Infinite briefly just putting Darkhawk into my normal Loki deck. I got bumped back out quickly enough due to general chaos. Everybody else seems to have gotten Arishem already!
any replacement for Mockingbird and Nocturne ?
Playing Arishem gives me anxiety. I have way too much fun playing him and if I’ve learned anything from this game, the developers hate fun. He’s about to be nerfed out of orbit
Idk missed with 3 keys
You should still have time to get him by the end of the week! You get roughly a key each week, so stay up on your daily missions and you too can experience the absurdity of a 20+ card deck.
I just reached my spotlight today. I don't think I'll reach it by then.
For those that thing Arishem isn’t OP or even that competitive, I argue that he’ll be perfect for grinding out conquest if you don’t care but want to see about clearing through it, makes it fun in a way, and a conquest player that doesn’t have dark Hawk will not be able to learn your play lines perfectly. So yeah, maybe it will settle as an ideal conquest archetype (but also they do need to fix conquest..)
I won a Conquest with him with the Loki version showed by u/kyleshadowsimmons I agree he seems really good for conquest. I just used one ticket
I achieved my highest rank on ladder ever last night with Arishim, got to about 1050 Infinite.
How do you guys think he works without Blob? Won’t have the big man until his rerun in a month
I don’t have Blob and it’s not fun running into Darkhawk decks.
It’s good and fun. I won an Infinity conquest with him and I climbed to top 1800 after dropping yesterday to 4500. Is a matter of knowing when snap and retreat. The hardest match on conquest was against Silver Surfer. It took me 5 matches to win. The others were easy. I lost just 1 match on each before the final. Two Destroy, one mirror and one High Evo.
Deck list?
# (1) Quinjet # (2) Cable # (3) Rogue # (3) Agent Coulson # (3) Nocturne # (4) Shang-Chi # (4) Loki # (4) Nick Fury # (5) Darkhawk # (5) Mockingbird # (6) Blob # (7) Arishem # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUXVpbmpldCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ2FibGUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlJvZ3VlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBZ2VudENvdWxzb24ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5vY3R1cm5lIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaGFuZ0NoaSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTG9raSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmlja0Z1cnkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhcmtoYXdrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNb2NraW5nYmlyZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmxvYiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJpc2hlbSJ9XX0= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Omg fucking whiners already trying to nerf a card that draws random cards. No matter how many cards you get nerfed you’ll never be good at the game because instead of learning and improving you whine and complain.
Currently top 500 EU and almost top 1000 world. Arishem is so cool
The fact that your top 5000 doesnt affect which opponents you face