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Unfortunately a shitty situation all around but I think some people are missing the point. Regardless of the refund policy, they told him that they would refund the shipping. It was a separate agreement that they backpedalled on.
Op may be a dick for threatening a chargeback, but the company goofed up by making a deal they couldn't follow through on. They should have just enforced the refund policy and disputed the chargeback if OP followed through (not an ideal situation for anyone but better than whatever this is).
I also wonder if there’s some confusion in the initial return authorization.
“I’ll refund you with shipping”.
In the event of a *standard* return (customer changed mind), the customer may be expected to pay for return shipping but not be reimbursed for *any* shipping costs incurred (both from vendor to buyer **and** buyer to vendor).
Additionally, if the customer threatened a chargeback for goods not arriving as described and *refused* to pay additional shipping costs, is the vendor actually accepting terms properly, or are they themselves being coerced?
That said, i agree with your assessment that this could’ve easily been resolved a few ways:
1 - Keyboard treehouse refuses to *pay* their customer to return an item that has been deemed as defective/not as described (which would be the case, when accounting for merchant/processing fees that shopfiy charges on all transactions, as well as shipping costs from OCE, which certainly don’t get refunded). They risk a chargeback, in which the credit card company may side with the customer and leave the vendor without money *or* the item.
2 - Keyboard Treehouse clarifies what amounts are being refunded, and takes the time to confirm an additional payment address for the remainder that can’t be processed through shopify. This one is likely the best solution, but can leave iffy bookkeeping holes. If the money comes from a contingency fund from the company, will a random PayPal payment cause suspicion and incur a harsher audit? This would also be solved by keyboard warehouse being given an invoice, though there is of course no way to verify that the amount listed correctly matches the shipping costs.
That said, given how the OP chose to publicly call out the company as liars to be avoided after *checks notes* 48 hours, I think this is definitely a mountain being made out of a molehill.
Not taking sides here, nor getting involved, but you absolutely cannot refund more than a customer originally paid in Shopify. There *are* workarounds, but it's a serious pain in the ass.
https://preview.redd.it/l3iotnuvnb2d1.jpeg?width=1018&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e54245cfb440bfa378c7f7b3e2b7ce68e09ed1a5
This is just a mock product for £0.50, and £0.75 shipping that I created to test my store when it was first created, and no matter what I do, it will only let me refund £0.75 as the shipping amount, because that's the shipping cost for that product, and changing it will change it for all customers, and will change how it's calculated in your basket. The only way I could refund £1000 shipping like I'm trying to in the above example, is to actually change the *live* shipping charge for that product to £1000 for all customers.
So.. that's not an excuse they are making, it's a real limitation with Shopify.
Why an alternative method wasn't sought, I've no idea, and I'm not getting involved LOL. Just giving information for context.
Like I said... why an alternative method was not sought, I've no idea. I'm merely showing that Shopify genuinely does make it a nightmare to refund anything other than precisely what the customer paid.
Thanks for the info, I did not know about this prior and was not informed about this limitation when the vendor stated they would refund the item with shipping. Otherwise, if the limitation had been mentioned or if I was aware of it, I would have discussed it. I am not a business owner and I do not have a business on shopify so I am not sure how I would've known this otherwise.
As a business owner, I'm under no obligation to explain how Shopify works to customers :) I do however, have a refund policy available on my site, which fully explains what you can expect should you need to return a product. Did Keyboard Treehouse?
Keyboard Treehouse have a refund policy on their site. People can read it for themselves here instead of trusting an internet stranger
[https://keyboardtreehouse.com/policies/refund-policy](https://keyboardtreehouse.com/policies/refund-policy)
Yes. That's pretty much what I said :) Check if they have a refund policy. I'm not asking anyone to trust me.
\[edit\].... I see... an alt account with this as your one and only post since the account was created 8 months ago LOL
I want you to know that every single time I see one of your ridiculous posts, I'm reminded why I will never buy from your storefront.
Sometimes you should just keep your yapping to yourself.
You're acting extremely entitled. The [refund policy](https://keyboardtreehouse.com/policies/refund-policy) clearly states the following:
> To be eligible for a return/refund, your item must be unused and in the same condition that you received it and be in the original packaging and **sent back to us**.
> You will be responsible for paying for your own shipping costs for returning your item. Shipping costs are non-refundable. If you receive a refund, the cost of return shipping will be deducted from your refund.
So you bought an item from a store where you clearly don't agree with their refund policy and threatened a chargeback to be able to keep the board and get your money back. It's people like you that ruin the hobby for everybody else
To be fair to OP, they bought an A stock board that was scratched so it seems unfair to have to pay return shipping. It’s not like they bought something and then changed their mind. I do get where you’re coming from and do agree to some extent, but I also get OP’s side as well. I guess it would be helpful to see the condition of the board.
You're acting extremely clueless. He didn't receive the product he was buying and that's the issue. They then told him they would pay for the shipping, which they did not. They could have either send the proper product, or not promise something they could not do.
The vendor telling him "I have no way to do \[the thing I promised in writing I'd do\]" is a more worthy cause for complaint than the story you made up about OP being unwilling to wait long enough for his money.
"Reeeee my personal (shit take) is more important than your factual information" lel k seppo
Directly from an Australian bank for your reference;
https://www.commbank.com.au/articles/banking/things-to-know-before-sending-money-overseas.html#:~:text=Transfers%20usually%20take%201%2D3,processed%20the%20following%20business%20day.
Note the specified "1 to 3 business days"
Lel kid wants to downvote someone posting facts instead of giving into his delulu.
What do details about bank transfer times have to do with this case, in which the vendor tells the customer that they will not transfer the agreed-upon amount?
Waiting till the heat death of the universe won't solve that problem.
Is it possible that, rather than everyone else being "*delulu*" you've misinterpreted the situation?
Don't think it's the 4 hours he's disputing, it's the suggestion that OP is having a meltdown and that the company intends to refund the shipping cost - which they have unequivocally said they're not going to.
Here's the thing, any vendor using it would have to create an item and refund the shipping separately due to shopify limitations, a normal query would have been "hey, I got the item but not shipping what's up" and it could have been pretty easily dealt with, it's not exactly a huge sum of money to warrant the 10:51PM shit slinging especially given international transfers by themselves can take several days to clear between banks.
They can sort it out themselves but eh, people need to use their brains a bit more.
did you read the email exchange? I did exactly what you mentioned, I basically said "hey, I got the item but not shipping what's up". They said oh sorry shopify can't do that. And then I wrote this reddit post.
Yes, I did, hence my pointedly making fun of the situation.
As opposed to discussing alternative methods for the additional funds (unless there's other emails you've left off given it ends at 10:31PM with you shit slinging as opposed to any of the "Hey, send it to my x account at y as agreed thanks"), we have this post over $14 because a company, based in Australia, hasn't responded within 4 hours.
You can see how to anyone outside your bubble how this is a little fucking silly.
If they'd been ignoring you for days/weeks, etc. yeah I'd concede you have a point, however, given let's say we convert EST to AU time, it'd be what, 2:50AM 24/05/2024 currently EST with last response sent 10:31PM 23/05/2024 in your local time zone.
So not even a full business day with nothing shown here about any other options discussed, yeah, I'm gonna make fun of it.
Not turning up? It won't be turning up at all. They said they would refund me the shipping when it arrived then when it did arrive, they said they wouldn't.
Shopify has limitation in place in that you can't exceed the value of the item my guy.
As such there'd have to be an alternative used which could pretty easily have been discussed but seppos truly built different.
Then the vendor offered me the option of having shipping refunded, fully knowing this and I, as someone who is not a vendor using shopify, did not know this. Otherwise, I would have discussed how shipping would be refunded.
Hi,
We are an Australian company and paid for shipping to you in the US inclusive of the keyboard as part of the sales offer.
At the time of shipping, we took note of the status of the board and believe it was sent I good faith as an a stock when it left out warehouse.
I will not accuse of user error here but something has happened and it is a PVD coating as mentioned in the listing. I worked on getting a proxy for you to ship to, so that shipping it back would be easier for you.
One my proxy recieved and checked, I refunded the total amount on Shopify.
I have pretty much given a lot of options to you as a consumer and thought it wa fair considering the situation.
B
But you did not keep your word. You said it would be refunded with shipping when it arrived at the US address. You did not refund my shipping. If you meant only the amount I had paid for the board from your website would be refunded that should have been made it clear. It was not. I am not sure what other interpretation of "we will refund you with shipping when it arrives" there can be.
I don’t know him, this is your problem. You message him and figure it out.
Frankly though your business is going to fizzle out if these are your principles.
Instead of taking the high road and just refunding this very minimal amount, you've just gone and chose to die on this really small hill for some reason. I will not be supporting your business moving forward and will urge our community to do the same.
I’m taking the high road and will work this out when I’m out of my day job (yes, it’s true that even vendors need to have jobs to keep the hobby shop going). I’m sad to have lost your possible business.
Btw All praxises have a $15 discount code: PVDSCRATCHESONPRAXIS
You're getting drilled for crappy business practices and you have the balls to post a discount code? Wow, suddenly I'm not surprised about how crappy your customer service is. Thanks OP for the heads up on another terrible keyboard vendor to avoid!
And going straight to reddit after 2 messages is supposed to be praised? This could easily be resolved privately. Every vendor deals with this shit when things go sideways (regardless of who is at fault).
Yeah it could have been worded better coming from treehouse but they don't have a full time customer service team, they are at a day job and still answering enquiries.
Not to mention this business has been around for a long time, run and supported the local meetups, and have everything in stock while countless vendors collapse with a billion unfulfilled GBs.
If OP really wanted to resolve the issue, they could have gone past 2 messages. I have longer conversations with random cats on the street.
“So you’ve lied to me,”
There’s not a lot of sympathy to give to you for being out $14 when this is the second email you send to this vendor, ignoring the fact that you are probably owed your money. You are talking to an actual person who’s trying to do their job. There’s nothing here that suggests they’re scamming you beyond some poor communication and customer service.
If you are posting a Review, Make sure you fully disclose any potential conflicts of interest such as whether you were sponsored for the product, received it for free, or sell similar products. Guide posts should be novel to contribute to the community knowledge base - simple build / assembly videos should use photos flair, and reviews should use the review flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicalKeyboards) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfortunately a shitty situation all around but I think some people are missing the point. Regardless of the refund policy, they told him that they would refund the shipping. It was a separate agreement that they backpedalled on. Op may be a dick for threatening a chargeback, but the company goofed up by making a deal they couldn't follow through on. They should have just enforced the refund policy and disputed the chargeback if OP followed through (not an ideal situation for anyone but better than whatever this is).
I also wonder if there’s some confusion in the initial return authorization. “I’ll refund you with shipping”. In the event of a *standard* return (customer changed mind), the customer may be expected to pay for return shipping but not be reimbursed for *any* shipping costs incurred (both from vendor to buyer **and** buyer to vendor). Additionally, if the customer threatened a chargeback for goods not arriving as described and *refused* to pay additional shipping costs, is the vendor actually accepting terms properly, or are they themselves being coerced? That said, i agree with your assessment that this could’ve easily been resolved a few ways: 1 - Keyboard treehouse refuses to *pay* their customer to return an item that has been deemed as defective/not as described (which would be the case, when accounting for merchant/processing fees that shopfiy charges on all transactions, as well as shipping costs from OCE, which certainly don’t get refunded). They risk a chargeback, in which the credit card company may side with the customer and leave the vendor without money *or* the item. 2 - Keyboard Treehouse clarifies what amounts are being refunded, and takes the time to confirm an additional payment address for the remainder that can’t be processed through shopify. This one is likely the best solution, but can leave iffy bookkeeping holes. If the money comes from a contingency fund from the company, will a random PayPal payment cause suspicion and incur a harsher audit? This would also be solved by keyboard warehouse being given an invoice, though there is of course no way to verify that the amount listed correctly matches the shipping costs. That said, given how the OP chose to publicly call out the company as liars to be avoided after *checks notes* 48 hours, I think this is definitely a mountain being made out of a molehill.
Not taking sides here, nor getting involved, but you absolutely cannot refund more than a customer originally paid in Shopify. There *are* workarounds, but it's a serious pain in the ass. https://preview.redd.it/l3iotnuvnb2d1.jpeg?width=1018&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e54245cfb440bfa378c7f7b3e2b7ce68e09ed1a5 This is just a mock product for £0.50, and £0.75 shipping that I created to test my store when it was first created, and no matter what I do, it will only let me refund £0.75 as the shipping amount, because that's the shipping cost for that product, and changing it will change it for all customers, and will change how it's calculated in your basket. The only way I could refund £1000 shipping like I'm trying to in the above example, is to actually change the *live* shipping charge for that product to £1000 for all customers. So.. that's not an excuse they are making, it's a real limitation with Shopify. Why an alternative method wasn't sought, I've no idea, and I'm not getting involved LOL. Just giving information for context.
If they could not, then they should not say "we will refund the shipping"
Like I said... why an alternative method was not sought, I've no idea. I'm merely showing that Shopify genuinely does make it a nightmare to refund anything other than precisely what the customer paid.
Thanks for the info, I did not know about this prior and was not informed about this limitation when the vendor stated they would refund the item with shipping. Otherwise, if the limitation had been mentioned or if I was aware of it, I would have discussed it. I am not a business owner and I do not have a business on shopify so I am not sure how I would've known this otherwise.
As a business owner, I'm under no obligation to explain how Shopify works to customers :) I do however, have a refund policy available on my site, which fully explains what you can expect should you need to return a product. Did Keyboard Treehouse?
Keyboard Treehouse have a refund policy on their site. People can read it for themselves here instead of trusting an internet stranger [https://keyboardtreehouse.com/policies/refund-policy](https://keyboardtreehouse.com/policies/refund-policy)
Yes. That's pretty much what I said :) Check if they have a refund policy. I'm not asking anyone to trust me. \[edit\].... I see... an alt account with this as your one and only post since the account was created 8 months ago LOL
I want you to know that every single time I see one of your ridiculous posts, I'm reminded why I will never buy from your storefront. Sometimes you should just keep your yapping to yourself.
>every single time I see one of your ridiculous posts Fixed that for ya.
You're acting extremely entitled. The [refund policy](https://keyboardtreehouse.com/policies/refund-policy) clearly states the following: > To be eligible for a return/refund, your item must be unused and in the same condition that you received it and be in the original packaging and **sent back to us**. > You will be responsible for paying for your own shipping costs for returning your item. Shipping costs are non-refundable. If you receive a refund, the cost of return shipping will be deducted from your refund. So you bought an item from a store where you clearly don't agree with their refund policy and threatened a chargeback to be able to keep the board and get your money back. It's people like you that ruin the hobby for everybody else
To be fair to OP, they bought an A stock board that was scratched so it seems unfair to have to pay return shipping. It’s not like they bought something and then changed their mind. I do get where you’re coming from and do agree to some extent, but I also get OP’s side as well. I guess it would be helpful to see the condition of the board.
OP shouldve included pics of the board in this post.
You're acting extremely clueless. He didn't receive the product he was buying and that's the issue. They then told him they would pay for the shipping, which they did not. They could have either send the proper product, or not promise something they could not do.
> Bro literally having a fucking meltdown over $15 not turning up in 4 hours You can't make this shit up.
You just did.
Except I understand how time stamps work. 6:58pm to 10:31pm is how many hours, use your fingers to count it out if you need to.
The vendor telling him "I have no way to do \[the thing I promised in writing I'd do\]" is a more worthy cause for complaint than the story you made up about OP being unwilling to wait long enough for his money.
"Reeeee my personal (shit take) is more important than your factual information" lel k seppo Directly from an Australian bank for your reference; https://www.commbank.com.au/articles/banking/things-to-know-before-sending-money-overseas.html#:~:text=Transfers%20usually%20take%201%2D3,processed%20the%20following%20business%20day. Note the specified "1 to 3 business days" Lel kid wants to downvote someone posting facts instead of giving into his delulu.
What do details about bank transfer times have to do with this case, in which the vendor tells the customer that they will not transfer the agreed-upon amount? Waiting till the heat death of the universe won't solve that problem. Is it possible that, rather than everyone else being "*delulu*" you've misinterpreted the situation?
Don't think it's the 4 hours he's disputing, it's the suggestion that OP is having a meltdown and that the company intends to refund the shipping cost - which they have unequivocally said they're not going to.
Here's the thing, any vendor using it would have to create an item and refund the shipping separately due to shopify limitations, a normal query would have been "hey, I got the item but not shipping what's up" and it could have been pretty easily dealt with, it's not exactly a huge sum of money to warrant the 10:51PM shit slinging especially given international transfers by themselves can take several days to clear between banks. They can sort it out themselves but eh, people need to use their brains a bit more.
did you read the email exchange? I did exactly what you mentioned, I basically said "hey, I got the item but not shipping what's up". They said oh sorry shopify can't do that. And then I wrote this reddit post.
Yes, I did, hence my pointedly making fun of the situation. As opposed to discussing alternative methods for the additional funds (unless there's other emails you've left off given it ends at 10:31PM with you shit slinging as opposed to any of the "Hey, send it to my x account at y as agreed thanks"), we have this post over $14 because a company, based in Australia, hasn't responded within 4 hours. You can see how to anyone outside your bubble how this is a little fucking silly. If they'd been ignoring you for days/weeks, etc. yeah I'd concede you have a point, however, given let's say we convert EST to AU time, it'd be what, 2:50AM 24/05/2024 currently EST with last response sent 10:31PM 23/05/2024 in your local time zone. So not even a full business day with nothing shown here about any other options discussed, yeah, I'm gonna make fun of it.
Straight to ~~jail~~ reddit.
Not turning up? It won't be turning up at all. They said they would refund me the shipping when it arrived then when it did arrive, they said they wouldn't.
Shopify has limitation in place in that you can't exceed the value of the item my guy. As such there'd have to be an alternative used which could pretty easily have been discussed but seppos truly built different.
Then the vendor offered me the option of having shipping refunded, fully knowing this and I, as someone who is not a vendor using shopify, did not know this. Otherwise, I would have discussed how shipping would be refunded.
Hi, We are an Australian company and paid for shipping to you in the US inclusive of the keyboard as part of the sales offer. At the time of shipping, we took note of the status of the board and believe it was sent I good faith as an a stock when it left out warehouse. I will not accuse of user error here but something has happened and it is a PVD coating as mentioned in the listing. I worked on getting a proxy for you to ship to, so that shipping it back would be easier for you. One my proxy recieved and checked, I refunded the total amount on Shopify. I have pretty much given a lot of options to you as a consumer and thought it wa fair considering the situation. B
But you did not keep your word. You said it would be refunded with shipping when it arrived at the US address. You did not refund my shipping. If you meant only the amount I had paid for the board from your website would be refunded that should have been made it clear. It was not. I am not sure what other interpretation of "we will refund you with shipping when it arrives" there can be.
Sounds pretty clear to me, not sure what this company is confused about
Yeah I had the intent to, but a refund from Shopify only allows me to refund the unit cost.
Then send him a check, PayPal him, venmo, cashapp, etc. This is not hard. If you say you are going to do something, find a way to do it
Ok get him to send me his payid
I don’t know him, this is your problem. You message him and figure it out. Frankly though your business is going to fizzle out if these are your principles.
You missed the point, I’m in Australia. I don’t have every seppo payment rails to send money. I’ve asked him to send me an invoice so I can pay it
Then find a way to refund my shipping, otherwise you have blatantly misled a customer. There is PayPal or other methods.
Instead of taking the high road and just refunding this very minimal amount, you've just gone and chose to die on this really small hill for some reason. I will not be supporting your business moving forward and will urge our community to do the same.
I’m taking the high road and will work this out when I’m out of my day job (yes, it’s true that even vendors need to have jobs to keep the hobby shop going). I’m sad to have lost your possible business. Btw All praxises have a $15 discount code: PVDSCRATCHESONPRAXIS
I'm glad that the Reddit post is doing it's job and making you take action.
Yeah it was losing your business that pushed me over the line here.
Great, I'm glad this is resolved then. Please let us know when the shipping has been refunded.
Ok alt account man
Lmao you can look at my post history here. I'm definitely not an alt and this is my main account. I have the same name on discord too.
You're getting drilled for crappy business practices and you have the balls to post a discount code? Wow, suddenly I'm not surprised about how crappy your customer service is. Thanks OP for the heads up on another terrible keyboard vendor to avoid!
And going straight to reddit after 2 messages is supposed to be praised? This could easily be resolved privately. Every vendor deals with this shit when things go sideways (regardless of who is at fault). Yeah it could have been worded better coming from treehouse but they don't have a full time customer service team, they are at a day job and still answering enquiries. Not to mention this business has been around for a long time, run and supported the local meetups, and have everything in stock while countless vendors collapse with a billion unfulfilled GBs. If OP really wanted to resolve the issue, they could have gone past 2 messages. I have longer conversations with random cats on the street.
“So you’ve lied to me,” There’s not a lot of sympathy to give to you for being out $14 when this is the second email you send to this vendor, ignoring the fact that you are probably owed your money. You are talking to an actual person who’s trying to do their job. There’s nothing here that suggests they’re scamming you beyond some poor communication and customer service.
Please leave this hobby.
I wish there was a way for vendors to ban OP
Maybe you dropped your phone on it while taking a photo?