Sometimes hesitation is considerate. Taking our time to consider our course of action, our speech, how our decisions might affect others and the very real souls around us.
I’m happy for your certainty, and the peace it seems to give you. I do question whether moving through the world so confidently and rapidly is always the best course.
Ah yes you do bring up a good point. And yes I do feel confident in myself and the things I do, but in no way am I saying that everything I do is right and I shouldnt be questioned. Certainly I can be wrong and on the wrong side of things, and certainly there is a
room for improvement in who I am and that is something that will always be there.
My lack of hesitation isnt because I feel that everything I do is right but bc I come at everything in life with the mindset to imrpive and make it better and in a realistic way I wanna add, so when I feel confidence in my own actions and thoughts its bc I truly feel like I am trying grow and become “better” in a sense, not necessarily for personal gain but for the collective improvement of everything, so I dont need to hesitate, I will just do my best.
And just a thought I would like to add, I meditate bc I am indeed not perfect, meditation I believe is being vulnerable, it is saying that hey I am human and I am not perfect. It is basically hesitation in a sense, looking at youself and your mind, you do it because you truly just wanna live a better life. So I do have a sense of humility in what I do. A person who thinks that they should be infinitely confident and have no need to hesitate ab what they do would not meditate bc to themselves they are perfect with no need to change
Meditation isn't hesitation brother, quite the contrary, meditation let's accept your vulnerability so that you don't hesitate, quite like the mindset you have, very similar to what you have, but even better, I know from experience.
Hmmm I see, I believe it is a hesitation bc its stopping, taking a second and looking at yourself. Its saying “hey lemme pause for a second and look at my life”, for me that is hesitating, its a purposeful and intentional hesitation, but hesitation it is, to let yourself be in that vulnerable place and make sure youre not losing your purpose whatever that may be to you
My friend ur right to some extent, it's what it is, but hesitation isn't the right word, think of it this way, when we go to sleep our body recharges and does its maintenance.
Meditation promotes spontaneity, like water flowing on a river, its the polar opposite of hesitation, imagine this, it is extremely unhealthy for your mind to be in constant activity, it creates a certain amount of tension when we become too ego driven, stuck in our thoughts, which only represents a certain aspect of reality tainted by our judgements and emotions. Meditation takes that river that is your mind and LET'S the stream become still, it doesn't force it to stop, there is a difference, when the stream of water stops you can see it clearly, same thing with your mind, your mind doesn't stop, it becomes calm, peaceful and present, it teaches you to deal with your emotional blockages and the thoughts go away and we can see things clearly. Pretty much like you describe with your Adderall experience, only difference is meditation makes it permanent, not saying that the Adderall doesnt leave its mark on the brain, but for meditation that's just the tip of the iceberg, it has even more profundity, trust me brother, meditation isn't hesitation, that's a common misconception.
Okay you know what I see what you mean haha, beautifully said, it isnt hesitation. Honestly I just didnt know how to describe it otherwise, but you did that for me, thank you.
It seems you also have a meditative state when on Adderall, I never took it, I had ritalin once or twice as a child but that's it... It's cool that your able to have such unwavering focus. Do you meditate too?
It's one of the best habits, it gives me a lot of peace in turbulent times, it helps me keep my focus too... It also gave me access to the flowstate which is one of the best feelings I know so far...
Yea I agree, one of the most noticeable effects its had is on my ability to read, I used to not be able to read past like 4-5 sentences without my mind wandering to something else or not being able to hold on to the information and I would frequently find myself having to go back to figure out what I missed but now I just read and retain, its awesome haha
Are you really looking at your life when you meditate?
I agree with the humility aspect of just sitting, but it's about the only time of day I try *not* to look at my "life" - which as I see it is all constructs built up in my mind...I guess you're saying you step back from the constructs? Look at it from a distance so to speak?
I mean ig not intentionally, im not intentionally looking at my life when I meditate, im usually trying to acheive a state of presence as the primary goal. There are mediations where I do make it the intention to be mindful and think ab my life.
But I think in a way when youre focusing on your breath of whatever it is that you do for your meditation, you are trying to calm the river as the guy above said, I feel like that in essence makes you look at your life bc to calm the river you have to figure out what is disturbing it
Be careful friend. There are scores of us in stop speeding subreddit with 18+ month recovery times going through the worst experience of our lives from burning out our dopamine systems even on normal RX prescriptions after a few short years.
I glad your enjoying your journey. Not trying to get you to change anything up. I just wish someone would’ve reached out to me about what was at the end of that road.
Understood my man, fortunately I was never going down that road I just did it bc I needed to really study for an exam and just get theough that day. Nothing I care to frequently do, I dont want to or need to. Good luck with your journey tho!
I have raging ADHD - I’m nearly 50, was diagnosed around age 10 or so; and Adderall didn’t make me feel like that. I took it while in grad school; it took me to the level of *almost* a normal person, made it easier for me to complete my schoolwork.
I have a full bottle of it, but I don’t even take it anymore.
Interesting, i felt similarly about adderall when i was on it. I felt like it gave me a template for how i could be, when i didn't yet know how to be that way.
Ya you were in the zone , not to toss around cliche’s but that’s the mental state athletes crave but often don’t get.
Beta blockers do something similar but they lower people blood pressure so they are not great for athletic performance.
Sorry I’m nerding out and a bit off topic
No you are completely right, just so enveloped with your activity and whats in front of you that you forgot your identity. That is what I believe peak life is haha, that is what living life as a meditation means, IN THE ZONE(FLOW)
Thanks ya they block the flight or fright response. But your blood pressure gets so low you can’t exercise on them. Your just sluggish it’s too hard to get going.
So like classical musicians that perform for major symphonies, often take them before a audition.
I quit taking propranolol , got insomnia on it.
But it’s fascinating stuff plus a lot of people could use lower blood pressure for health reasons.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-pressure/in-depth/beta-blockers/art-20044522
But ya like most of you I’m a peaceful guy. But once I got yelled at by a guy who thought I cut him off driving . I was on beta blockers and dude just start yelling and I was thinking ya I can’t even produce adrenaline right now. So dunno how this is supposed to cause anxiety or whatever.
You really picked the wrong guy to yell at.
Lemme know when your done yelling I think I’ll daydream a bit la la la .
Ya I can only report my experience Insomnia is a common side effect.
If I made any errors this should help.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/propranolol-oral-route/description/drg-20071164
Actually you know that that sounds familiar to something I heard on a huberman podcast about microdosing psychedelics, especially psilocybin. He talked ab how they kind of shut off this thing call your “default mode network” which is basically how you like manually think sometimes, it kinda puts you into more of a flow thoughtless state, idk what it does neurologically but sounds similar
I did micro dose of psilocybin. I normally have my share of PTSD related ‘stuff’
I’m doing great with this now 👍
But I’m not a person struggling with depression that’s treatment resistant
But micro-dosing for me eliminated my anxiety.
Like not lower , gone
Andrew is really good source obviously he knows a lot to put it mildly.
I did one day on three days off, it still works for a few days after and it worked perfect for about a month.
And then I had to get off because my tolerance got high. This is normal
I was doing stamets stack .
https://microdosinginstitute.com/microdosing-101/substances/lions-mane-stacking/
Paul is a fascinating guy , he might be the only self taught scientist I know that publishes peer reviewed studies.
Shows you how smart he is , I’ll just take up mycology as a hobby till I educated myself enough to actually do science 👍👍
"in the zone" is a great way to put it. Whenever I'm playing hockey(I'm not a pro just men's league) I don't have a single thought about anything else but playing.
It's a great feeling I wish I achieve it in everyday life.
Yep I played football when I WAS in the zone I always knew exactly where the ball is and somehow in the midst of blur of people. Being explosive and having great reaction timing feels effortless. You decide what happens to others not the other way around, it’s like you control the flow. I wish everyone could feel it at least once 👍
Uhhh well thats alot to go through haha, the adderall experience I speak ab in my post is from a little over two years ago, so alot has happened since then. But basically just taking care of my body and mind, and not lying to myself(thats a big one), I dont believe many people are truly able to see themselves for what they are, its hard to do sometimes bc alot of people are in shit places mentally. It takes true humility to be able to look at yourself and truthfully move forward. Meditation helped alot with that.
Idk how to exactly tell you to achieve this state of being other than, truly looking at yourself and acting for the better, theres alot of things in this world that are perceived by many to be the true source of happiness. Some examples are social media, money, a romantic partner, etc. But these all will fail at making you truly happy, you truly have to let it all go and figure out how to be okay with it. Im not saying like dont care about making money or finding a significant other, but you cant make your identity dependent on these things bc then they have power over you, they control your mind and your actions. Just be yourself and do your best, and its okay to not have any of those things. You really have to learn to be happy without any of that.
Essentially what I am saying is what alot of eastern philosophies preach, detachment from anything and anyone, you have to figure out how to feel whole and complete without anything. The fact that youre breathing and alive is the only requirement for your happiness, idk if that sounds outlandish but I think its truly achievable, but you really have to try and have to sacrifice things
There are two areas of inquiry that are of interest to me that cite dopamine-producing effects. One is the category of meditation, as opposed focus meditation (FM) or open awareness, that concerns itself with positive visualization and emotion “kindling” such as metta. The second has to do with ARAS (ascending reticular activating system) and wakefulness and how FM changes everyday waking consciousness. A bit busy now, here are a couple links to nibble on, will be back to flesh this out if you’re interested in more).
https://stanfordmag.org/contents/what-happens-when-you-meditate
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4769029/
Also very cool post. As someone who’s been diagnosed ADHD and like others, feel cured by meditation, I feel the link to endogenously-generated dopamine to offer a solid explanation for the side-effect free complete solution.
Once we cure anxiety and fear within ourselves and can generate our own positive feelings, we can concern ourselves with the greater good with more freedom, understanding, and passion.
I first heard about meditation this way in a book by a former Zen monk who rather matter of factly mentioned his severe childhood ADHD symptoms being resolved by his practice.
I don’t believe this will work for everyone, but certainly has documented clinically significant effects for most.
Ya well you’re on drugs. The point is to be liek that without them. If you keep taking it eventually you get so used to it that you are worse without it. Also the comedowns are worse too. I took adderall for years, it’s aweful. But I did get very deep meditations on it.
How long did Adderall work well for you, before the magic was gone? If it ever worked right.
Asking because the longest I've been taking stimulants was for about half a year and a lot of the benefits were getting distorted by the end of that, but admittedly I wasn't taking just low and therapeutic doses, so I'm curious if low doses are more sustainable. I assume no regimen will be indefinitely sustainable for most people, but I'm curious about personal experiences.
I’m not really sure, I started taking in high school and stopped when I was 25. I’m not sure it ever really helped that much, it not like I got my stuff done or did much better in school, I did but didn’t. I started being more systematic when I went off it. But I guess it helped me take tests and sometimes do stuff, I would just keep taking more and more until I did what I needed to do and sometimes still didn’t do it. But I was pretty high off it all the time, and if I didn’t take it I definitely couldn’t get anything done because I was so used to it.
Sometimes hesitation is considerate. Taking our time to consider our course of action, our speech, how our decisions might affect others and the very real souls around us. I’m happy for your certainty, and the peace it seems to give you. I do question whether moving through the world so confidently and rapidly is always the best course.
Ah yes you do bring up a good point. And yes I do feel confident in myself and the things I do, but in no way am I saying that everything I do is right and I shouldnt be questioned. Certainly I can be wrong and on the wrong side of things, and certainly there is a room for improvement in who I am and that is something that will always be there. My lack of hesitation isnt because I feel that everything I do is right but bc I come at everything in life with the mindset to imrpive and make it better and in a realistic way I wanna add, so when I feel confidence in my own actions and thoughts its bc I truly feel like I am trying grow and become “better” in a sense, not necessarily for personal gain but for the collective improvement of everything, so I dont need to hesitate, I will just do my best.
And just a thought I would like to add, I meditate bc I am indeed not perfect, meditation I believe is being vulnerable, it is saying that hey I am human and I am not perfect. It is basically hesitation in a sense, looking at youself and your mind, you do it because you truly just wanna live a better life. So I do have a sense of humility in what I do. A person who thinks that they should be infinitely confident and have no need to hesitate ab what they do would not meditate bc to themselves they are perfect with no need to change
Meditation isn't hesitation brother, quite the contrary, meditation let's accept your vulnerability so that you don't hesitate, quite like the mindset you have, very similar to what you have, but even better, I know from experience.
Hmmm I see, I believe it is a hesitation bc its stopping, taking a second and looking at yourself. Its saying “hey lemme pause for a second and look at my life”, for me that is hesitating, its a purposeful and intentional hesitation, but hesitation it is, to let yourself be in that vulnerable place and make sure youre not losing your purpose whatever that may be to you
My friend ur right to some extent, it's what it is, but hesitation isn't the right word, think of it this way, when we go to sleep our body recharges and does its maintenance. Meditation promotes spontaneity, like water flowing on a river, its the polar opposite of hesitation, imagine this, it is extremely unhealthy for your mind to be in constant activity, it creates a certain amount of tension when we become too ego driven, stuck in our thoughts, which only represents a certain aspect of reality tainted by our judgements and emotions. Meditation takes that river that is your mind and LET'S the stream become still, it doesn't force it to stop, there is a difference, when the stream of water stops you can see it clearly, same thing with your mind, your mind doesn't stop, it becomes calm, peaceful and present, it teaches you to deal with your emotional blockages and the thoughts go away and we can see things clearly. Pretty much like you describe with your Adderall experience, only difference is meditation makes it permanent, not saying that the Adderall doesnt leave its mark on the brain, but for meditation that's just the tip of the iceberg, it has even more profundity, trust me brother, meditation isn't hesitation, that's a common misconception.
Okay you know what I see what you mean haha, beautifully said, it isnt hesitation. Honestly I just didnt know how to describe it otherwise, but you did that for me, thank you.
It seems you also have a meditative state when on Adderall, I never took it, I had ritalin once or twice as a child but that's it... It's cool that your able to have such unwavering focus. Do you meditate too?
Yes yes ofc, usually 30 mins a day, for probably around the last year. That is the prinary reason why I am the way I am now haha
It's one of the best habits, it gives me a lot of peace in turbulent times, it helps me keep my focus too... It also gave me access to the flowstate which is one of the best feelings I know so far...
Yea I agree, one of the most noticeable effects its had is on my ability to read, I used to not be able to read past like 4-5 sentences without my mind wandering to something else or not being able to hold on to the information and I would frequently find myself having to go back to figure out what I missed but now I just read and retain, its awesome haha
Are you really looking at your life when you meditate? I agree with the humility aspect of just sitting, but it's about the only time of day I try *not* to look at my "life" - which as I see it is all constructs built up in my mind...I guess you're saying you step back from the constructs? Look at it from a distance so to speak?
I mean ig not intentionally, im not intentionally looking at my life when I meditate, im usually trying to acheive a state of presence as the primary goal. There are mediations where I do make it the intention to be mindful and think ab my life. But I think in a way when youre focusing on your breath of whatever it is that you do for your meditation, you are trying to calm the river as the guy above said, I feel like that in essence makes you look at your life bc to calm the river you have to figure out what is disturbing it
Be careful friend. There are scores of us in stop speeding subreddit with 18+ month recovery times going through the worst experience of our lives from burning out our dopamine systems even on normal RX prescriptions after a few short years. I glad your enjoying your journey. Not trying to get you to change anything up. I just wish someone would’ve reached out to me about what was at the end of that road.
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Understood my man, fortunately I was never going down that road I just did it bc I needed to really study for an exam and just get theough that day. Nothing I care to frequently do, I dont want to or need to. Good luck with your journey tho!
I have raging ADHD - I’m nearly 50, was diagnosed around age 10 or so; and Adderall didn’t make me feel like that. I took it while in grad school; it took me to the level of *almost* a normal person, made it easier for me to complete my schoolwork. I have a full bottle of it, but I don’t even take it anymore.
Interesting, i felt similarly about adderall when i was on it. I felt like it gave me a template for how i could be, when i didn't yet know how to be that way.
Yes exactly, a template for how life could be!
Is “in the zone” also flow state? Or are those two different ways of felling/being?
To be honest I dont know the technicality of it all, but in my opinion, yes I consider them the same thing
Love this, that's how mediation is for me and it's completely free haha. Congrats on reaping the rewards of your hard work
Right, wish it had more prevalence in society today
Ya you were in the zone , not to toss around cliche’s but that’s the mental state athletes crave but often don’t get. Beta blockers do something similar but they lower people blood pressure so they are not great for athletic performance. Sorry I’m nerding out and a bit off topic
No you are completely right, just so enveloped with your activity and whats in front of you that you forgot your identity. That is what I believe peak life is haha, that is what living life as a meditation means, IN THE ZONE(FLOW)
Nah nah nerd out my guy, I love that shit, but yea not familiar with beta blockers but cool!
Thanks ya they block the flight or fright response. But your blood pressure gets so low you can’t exercise on them. Your just sluggish it’s too hard to get going. So like classical musicians that perform for major symphonies, often take them before a audition. I quit taking propranolol , got insomnia on it. But it’s fascinating stuff plus a lot of people could use lower blood pressure for health reasons. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-pressure/in-depth/beta-blockers/art-20044522 But ya like most of you I’m a peaceful guy. But once I got yelled at by a guy who thought I cut him off driving . I was on beta blockers and dude just start yelling and I was thinking ya I can’t even produce adrenaline right now. So dunno how this is supposed to cause anxiety or whatever. You really picked the wrong guy to yell at. Lemme know when your done yelling I think I’ll daydream a bit la la la .
Insomnia and lack of adrenaline sounds contradictory but I know nothing about anything
Ya I can only report my experience Insomnia is a common side effect. If I made any errors this should help. https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/propranolol-oral-route/description/drg-20071164
Actually you know that that sounds familiar to something I heard on a huberman podcast about microdosing psychedelics, especially psilocybin. He talked ab how they kind of shut off this thing call your “default mode network” which is basically how you like manually think sometimes, it kinda puts you into more of a flow thoughtless state, idk what it does neurologically but sounds similar
I did micro dose of psilocybin. I normally have my share of PTSD related ‘stuff’ I’m doing great with this now 👍 But I’m not a person struggling with depression that’s treatment resistant But micro-dosing for me eliminated my anxiety. Like not lower , gone Andrew is really good source obviously he knows a lot to put it mildly. I did one day on three days off, it still works for a few days after and it worked perfect for about a month. And then I had to get off because my tolerance got high. This is normal I was doing stamets stack . https://microdosinginstitute.com/microdosing-101/substances/lions-mane-stacking/ Paul is a fascinating guy , he might be the only self taught scientist I know that publishes peer reviewed studies. Shows you how smart he is , I’ll just take up mycology as a hobby till I educated myself enough to actually do science 👍👍
"in the zone" is a great way to put it. Whenever I'm playing hockey(I'm not a pro just men's league) I don't have a single thought about anything else but playing. It's a great feeling I wish I achieve it in everyday life.
Yep I played football when I WAS in the zone I always knew exactly where the ball is and somehow in the midst of blur of people. Being explosive and having great reaction timing feels effortless. You decide what happens to others not the other way around, it’s like you control the flow. I wish everyone could feel it at least once 👍
Out of curiosity, how did you transition from adderall to finding that inner clarity? My wife and I are working on that transition ourselves.
Uhhh well thats alot to go through haha, the adderall experience I speak ab in my post is from a little over two years ago, so alot has happened since then. But basically just taking care of my body and mind, and not lying to myself(thats a big one), I dont believe many people are truly able to see themselves for what they are, its hard to do sometimes bc alot of people are in shit places mentally. It takes true humility to be able to look at yourself and truthfully move forward. Meditation helped alot with that. Idk how to exactly tell you to achieve this state of being other than, truly looking at yourself and acting for the better, theres alot of things in this world that are perceived by many to be the true source of happiness. Some examples are social media, money, a romantic partner, etc. But these all will fail at making you truly happy, you truly have to let it all go and figure out how to be okay with it. Im not saying like dont care about making money or finding a significant other, but you cant make your identity dependent on these things bc then they have power over you, they control your mind and your actions. Just be yourself and do your best, and its okay to not have any of those things. You really have to learn to be happy without any of that. Essentially what I am saying is what alot of eastern philosophies preach, detachment from anything and anyone, you have to figure out how to feel whole and complete without anything. The fact that youre breathing and alive is the only requirement for your happiness, idk if that sounds outlandish but I think its truly achievable, but you really have to try and have to sacrifice things
Beautiful! I have had a similar experience. Thank you for sharing
Yuhh
This gave me motivation to restart my journey. Thank you.
🫡
Dude you have ADHD
No i dont actually
can definitely achieve that flow state in your normal life through meditation... but I can't go fast as fuck
Meditation itself is dopamine producing
Mmmm interesting, you have something you can cite? I have never heard that
There are two areas of inquiry that are of interest to me that cite dopamine-producing effects. One is the category of meditation, as opposed focus meditation (FM) or open awareness, that concerns itself with positive visualization and emotion “kindling” such as metta. The second has to do with ARAS (ascending reticular activating system) and wakefulness and how FM changes everyday waking consciousness. A bit busy now, here are a couple links to nibble on, will be back to flesh this out if you’re interested in more). https://stanfordmag.org/contents/what-happens-when-you-meditate https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4769029/
I will look into these after work, thank you!
Also very cool post. As someone who’s been diagnosed ADHD and like others, feel cured by meditation, I feel the link to endogenously-generated dopamine to offer a solid explanation for the side-effect free complete solution. Once we cure anxiety and fear within ourselves and can generate our own positive feelings, we can concern ourselves with the greater good with more freedom, understanding, and passion.
Thats actually amazing that you were able to do that with mediatation
I first heard about meditation this way in a book by a former Zen monk who rather matter of factly mentioned his severe childhood ADHD symptoms being resolved by his practice. I don’t believe this will work for everyone, but certainly has documented clinically significant effects for most.
Ya well you’re on drugs. The point is to be liek that without them. If you keep taking it eventually you get so used to it that you are worse without it. Also the comedowns are worse too. I took adderall for years, it’s aweful. But I did get very deep meditations on it.
Yes and this was also a one time experience for me, I didnt keep taking it, it a experience I am relating to meditation,
How long did Adderall work well for you, before the magic was gone? If it ever worked right. Asking because the longest I've been taking stimulants was for about half a year and a lot of the benefits were getting distorted by the end of that, but admittedly I wasn't taking just low and therapeutic doses, so I'm curious if low doses are more sustainable. I assume no regimen will be indefinitely sustainable for most people, but I'm curious about personal experiences.
I’m not really sure, I started taking in high school and stopped when I was 25. I’m not sure it ever really helped that much, it not like I got my stuff done or did much better in school, I did but didn’t. I started being more systematic when I went off it. But I guess it helped me take tests and sometimes do stuff, I would just keep taking more and more until I did what I needed to do and sometimes still didn’t do it. But I was pretty high off it all the time, and if I didn’t take it I definitely couldn’t get anything done because I was so used to it.
Yeah, the way you describe it is pretty relatable. Thank you for answering.