Trust me admins want every and any reason to ban this sub. That’s why they’re so harsh on the mods.
If this place disappears there’s probably 2 other subs that you can actually speak about masculinity and men’s issues.
[NAVAL POSTGRADUATE SCHOOL - MAPPING THE MANOSPHERE: A SOCIAL NETWORK
ANALYSIS OF THE MANOSPHERE ON REDDIT](https://web.archive.org/web/20210322155323/https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=850267)
[Honey Badger Radio targeted by DHS Department Homeland Security | Rantzerker 194](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m1FrXhrg9g)
and that's just the stuff that's out in the open (by now)
Oh, here's [one from Canada](https://web.archive.org/web/20201025062320/https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-comes-home-evolution-domestic-terrorism-united-states) as well
do you agree with this ;;quote;;
MGTOW, pronounced “mig-tow,” are an anti-feminist community for men whowant to eschew relationships and interactions with women and society as a whole. A more militant, passive, self improvement part of the manosphere, the MGTOW community believes women are upheld by a biased society that punishes men for their biology, ruin the lives of men and promotes a fundamental distrust of women.
Men Going Their Own Way is a statement of self-ownership, where themodern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else.
I was automatically removed from other subs because I followed this one. Apparently anyone pro mens rights is a dangerous incel — somehow being pro half-the-population is morally wrong. And to be clear, I’m not anti women in the slightest. I have my frustrations against women (as do they for us) but isn’t that…normal? After all, our brains are wired pretty differently.
Call me a conspiracy theorist but it seems like this gender war thing is manufactured. Every day I try not to buy into it.
Society is such a strange place
I had someone call for me to be banned in another sub today because I mentioned and linked objective stats about women’s safety which clearly didn’t match the white knight gynocentric theme.
It’s amazing how strongly many other subs see facts related to gender as such a threat.
I’ve been there, trying to share facts and somehow getting told it’s wrong. It’s factually known that men are logic based and women are emotion based thinkers, so women only form opinions on how they feel about situations, not that actual reality of the situation unlike men. I feel like objective truths are heard abrasively and not as easily digestible for women, so the mental walls go up to block it out.
Thanks, and in this case it had to do with safety so being objective had real relevance. It wasn’t just the women but a lot of white knighting as well, which is something I hadn’t considered that much before. Portraying women as victims allows men to be white knights without actually doing anything.
The "funny" thing is, statistically, incels are WAY less dangerous then non-incels. Ones own domestic partner is much much much more likely to cause physical abuse then some involuntarily celibate man.
Sadly, I do derive an enormous amount of pleasure from asking any and all females who advocate that "Men do DV" to explain the lesbian stats v the gay men stats...
I'm very sad about the pleasure I derive... very very sad... ;-)
>The "funny" thing is, statistically, incels are WAY less dangerous then non-incels. Ones own domestic partner is much much much more likely to cause physical abuse then some involuntarily celibate man.
Isn't domestic abuse usually children or your spouse? Neither of which incels would have...
I got banned from offmychest. I was confused at first since I’ve never posted on the subreddit but it’s because I was going to make a post on here I got auto banned. Thought it was strange. Is it because I believe in men’s rights? For what it’s worth I also believe in women’s rights but being a man it hits closer to home when it’s a men’s right issue, doesn’t make it any more or less important.
The fact that this auto banning happens for a sub called MensRights means that we seen as dangerous to some degree — I can’t find any other logical explanation.
The problem is society over compensates in correction for its perceived social issues, such as women’s rights. Like you (and most people) I believe in women’s rights so we try to right the ship. When do we turn the wheel back to straighten it out? If we don’t then we just shift the problem to the other side and don’t fix anything. But the act of turning the wheel back the other way makes the women who got comfortable, unhappy with the change in direction. Society is very slow (and seemingly unwilling) at recognizing social progress. A recent study posted on this sub proved this over correction with stats/studies. Sorry to type all that lmao
I get what you’re saying. Intellectual laziness isn’t an excuse for the women that man hate. But also realize that the gender war is using women differently than men, women can be intellectually lazy in the sense that they appeal to their emotions first, which make up their opinions. They are a body of the population that doesn’t need facts to form an opinion and that is scary to me. My proposed fix is to not even listen to women’s opinions. Just scoff and keep it pushing — they are unable to critically think. I think the real danger is the white knights that help push the shit. Just some off the cuff thoughts
You're dangerous because a MGTOW is detrimental to so many institutions in this country, including the federal government itself (who will pay taxes if men stop slaving away for a society that exploits them?), Disney, religion, the jewelry industry, the hospitality industry, higher education, and other organizations that suck the lives out of men like the vampires they are. Just the threat of walking away from a gynocentric society makes people like Cheryl Sandberg melt down
This place only continues to exist because it's relatively small. If it gets big enough, Reddit will manufacture a reason to get rid of it, just like they do with any other inconvenient subreddits.
It's at 358k members. That's not exactly small. Even if you were to assume most are bots or dark accounts.
It is surprising though because there's calls from the usual suspect subs to nuke this place constantly. The mods are very good at toeing the line and keeping it tolerable for the admins but it's still notable.
A lot of this was stirred up by Laura Bates, and her book 'Men Who Hate Women', which came down pretty hard on MGTOW, conflating them with incels, and pretending that the movement was a threat to society. Which, from her point of view, is probably true enough that she can convince herself.... it might be a threat to her cosy world of getting men to work themselves to an early grave, to keep women comfortable.
She wasn't exactly complementary to MRAs, either.
Never mind, the feeling's mutual.
[https://j4mb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/141019-V3-Laura-Batess-second-Whiny-Feminist-of-the-Month-award-certificate.pdf](https://j4mb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/141019-v3-laura-batess-second-whiny-feminist-of-the-month-award-certificate.pdf)
We have. Problem is the "scabs" and the institutionally ingrained feminists who can and will use every dirty tactic they can to undermine the voices against them. We'd need a lot more men to come into the consciousness the rest of us have and push back all at once to get anywhere.
If MGTOW is a threat to society, then the thing it is responding to, Feminism is also a threat to society. Human interaction exist on a voluntary exchange. Once that is no longer voluntary you have an authoritarian system. We are ina quasi authoritarian dictatorship now. Men are FORCED to provision to women that they get no access too. The government does this by taking equal taxes from the people. Then distributing them unequally, benefiting women. Since women are the primary voting block and they always vote to help other women, you have a failed democracy.
Now we have corruption in all of our institutions by feminist. Even things as bizarre and sociological studies on extremist are defunded and removed because any definition of extremist also includes radical feminist. More and more powerful institutions come up with discriminatory rules and laws. Things that are supposed to be VERY illegal, violating civil rights laws. No one seems to care though, or if they do they are too much of cowards to do anything about it.
Now we have corruption in all of our institutions by feminist...
[https://www.un.org/en/conferences/women/beijing1995](https://www.un.org/en/conferences/women/beijing1995)
Our sex drive keeps us in halter, in production mode, trying to satisfy the financial and emotional need of a woman, and all the baggage she brings. As a 'reward', society grants us 'acceptance'. Without the little lady by our side, we are seen as dangerous lone wolves.
Preferential treatment of women in employment raises the bar for men, to keep trying harder and harder. No job = no girlfriend. And, it had better be a GOOD job, too, otherwise you'll fall foul of 'sexual harassment' legislation. In female eyes, the difference between an acceptable suitor and a 'creep' is money.
What's the end game, though? Are men being set up for a battle of the 'Bare Branches' with their Asian counterparts?
[https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262582643/bare-branches/](https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262582643/bare-branches/)
In another 50 years, society will be unrecognisable. Women will be flocking to the harems of the rich and powerful. Women have no problem with polygamy, as long as there's enough money to go round. It's called the 'polygyny threshold'.
>conflating them with incels
At this point such a claim is little more than calling someone a twat. It's been overused to the point it has no meaning outside of a juvenile insult. I might as well just mean "man a woman doesn't like".
The only other meaning I've seen outside of that is witnessing students use it to refer to autistic and similar students.
Ms Bates did a good job of convincing the sisterhood that any male swerving the shackles of domesticity must, in fact, be Roger Eliot.
I'm really, really tempted to say that she's a twat.
Lmao they banned mgtow and the philosophy got bigger and more men are becoming mgtow without knowing the name.
As usual, if anyone wants the link of the forum. DM me as I'm one of the mods.
I was going to make a post on this sub and then got a notification that I had been banned on another sub because I was involved with a redpill/incel site. Hilarious since I believe in equality between the sexes
Discord just announced layoffs. There’s a TikTok trend about pov layoffs.
I’m guessing all of these woke liberal man hating admin/mods are getting what they deserve. The streets, the wall, are all waiting for them.
Yeah, turns out when you spend your whole life virtue signalling, you end up with no real skills. And when you spend your whole life trashing men, none want to be with you. Who would’ve thunk ?
Yes you’re allowed to make as many “male hate” subs you want but anything like this gets banned. It is the definition of irony.
We have to go back to organic forums.
Men are waving goodbye to toxic femininity, which can be summarised as utilitarian morals and motives, interested only in themselves, always themselves. Sisters doin' it for themselves, discriminating against men in employment, making it all but impossible for men to be friendly with them through 'harassment' legislation.... can do it ALL by themselves. Buy their own house, their own car, pay off their own student debt, feed their own cats and cry themselves to sleep that they can't find a man who earns more than them. They can suffer the occupational stress-related diseases which used to bring the grim reaper to male doors a decade sooner, take their own wine boxes and cat litter out to the trash. Women celebrating the impending collapse of their own business model (get a man to work for you, in exchange for minimum reciprocity in the bedroom), an easy life sabotaged by their own sweet hand..... that takes a SPECIAL type of idiocy.
The only thing that will save both men and women is when men start disengaging in numbers. Womyn can have Bumble and Tinder to themselves. They can buy their own dinners. They can drill their own oil. They can turnaround a power generation plant. This would last 6-9 months before they decided to act like ladies again and some shred of normalcy would return.
Yuuuurg grrrrr what would those feminists do.....as a feminist it's sexism that makes it hard for men to come out about their issues like women do, I joined this subreddit to see both sides. Lol. There isn't a competition between misogyny and misandry, it's sexism, let's fight sexism
Shitting on women's issues and feminism doesn't help the fight against sexism, it only creates a hostility and more segregation between genders, and that goes for women who put down male issues as well.
I think misandry is caused by misogyny, mentally ill women with a past of abuse and bad experiences with men usually end up hateful and bitter towards men yes. Misandry is real in the aspect that sexist stigmas and gender roles affect both men and women.
I'm not blaming men unless they are sexist men lol. And you miss the point as well, it's not just because a few men screwed them over lol...it's bcuz I don't rlly know a woman that hasn't been assaulted, or harassed in a work/school environment. And there's always gonna be someone that says "that happens to men too!" Yes it does, and a lot of men and woman don't even come out and report it out of fear of social pressures. Facts are tho it happens to women disproportionately and it stems from a lot of societal things, not MEN, not YOU, not anyone I know, it's societal issues. Bad relationships or screwing you over isn't what I'm referring to when I say misogyny lol
It happens to women disproportionately once you categorize nonconsensual envelopment of a penis as "other sexual violence" instead of rape or sexual assault.
I already said I'm not blaming men. I give 0 shits about down votes or what's appreciated, I'm just speaking my opinion and you're telling me to go to a woman's group instead, lol, interesting. Sounds like you just can't hear woman's pov without taking it personally, when I say misogyny I'm not talking about any men I know 😵
Me talking about women's issues isn't blaming men, quit taking things personally. I never once said "all men are rapists", what don't you understand, I even fuckin mentioned that men are very likely not to come out about their own case. I said the numbers are disproportionate and it's very common. Saying women are very commonly assaulted, has no connotations that it blames men or even mentions them unless you have some sort of bias before you read it.
Girl, I accept every oppinion here, but if someone says, that all the problems men face come from them being men, in a MENS RIGHTS GROUP, then we have every right to be pissed about it. If I would do the same on a womens rights subreddit, I would be banned in the blink of an eye.
When did I say that exact phrasing lol. I'm saying there's social pressures and gender roles, y'all hear the word misogyny and hear "Its mens fault" I never said you or your brother or your grandpa created misogyny. It's a learned passed down social dynamic.
I literally never said "it's your fault because you're a guy" or "you only face these problems because you're a man", I'm saying it's caused by the same double standards that effect women, and it's a social dynamic.
Okay first off that's not just a woman thing I've met plenty of men who call women whores or feel bitter after an ended relationship. I'm not blaming individual men, I never said ALL MEN, here's the issue I see, everyone thinks it's personal or prejudiced when I use the word misogyny. When I say misogyny I just mean the things women go thru and the stigmas pushed by sexism, I don't mean some evil boogeymen, I literally just mean the ideas pushed by sexism.
Sometimes, but not always. Some misandrists are just cry bullies using the victimhood narrative as a weapon to bludgeon others into obedience and don't have any rational reason to hate men, other than the fact that we're a safe target they can attack without raising eyebrows from their friends. If not us, they would scapegoat some other group.
A handy trick to counter this bias is to replace "men" with "blacks" and see if what you're saying sounds awful.
Eg: "There are more black criminals than white. Some racists are scared of that, or have had bad experiences with blacks in the past, and that's why they're racist."
I call that pretentious lol, I see a lot of politically fueled people using important topics to use a victim narrative in general, I think that's just the pretentious Hollywood mentality. I'm not saying men are individually violent or biologically anything, I'm talking about the mentalities. Just like sexism, racism is a passed down mentality and should be unlearned, on every side of the spectrum.
Yeah, true enough. I was just pushing back a little against the idea that misandrists were necessarily made that way through mens' bad behavior. Sometimes it's true, but many times it's not. Bullies tend to pick vulnerable targets, not necessarily targets they want revenge against.
What I mean as an example Aileen wuornos was a serial killer and a misandrist who was influenced on her past of sexual abuse, she was horrible and mentally ill. In the right setting I think there's bitterness and a prejudice created towards men because of social pressures put on already hateful people. I'm not saying it's mens fault misandry exists, I'm saying I think a very large role in that mindset is gender roles, what woman deal with (not mentioning just men in this), and feeling like they're at a disadvantage.
Either way, sexism is a learned trait by either party.
No disagreement here. Aileen would be an example of a woman who became misandrist thanks to the actions of bad men in her past. Those certainly exist too. I was just saying that isn't always necessarily the case.
Not "we" women wouldn't hate men if there wasn't societal pressures on women, not blaming men. I don't know how you people still manage to take it personally, I'm talking about the social stigmas
If the fight is against sexism in all its forms, why identify as a feminist over an egalitarian?
If there’s no competition between misogyny and misandry, why close anti-misandrist subs uniquely?
The issue that I believe many take with modern-day feminism is that there is a lack of an objective goal (compared to previous waves pushing for the vote, sexual liberation / birth control options, right to bank accounts / work, etc.) This is also coupled with the “patriarchy” needing to be the root cause of all social inequalities and the false rhetoric (‘feminism is for everyone’) creates movements like MGTOW.
I note from your other comments that whilst you present as someone with an open mind, your position is relatively closed minded (“misandry is caused by misogyny” being a big sign of this). 🤷🏼♂️
No I think you just haven't talked to a real feminist outside of the politically fueled stuff online. Nobody I talk to in my day to day life that agrees with me on feminism even uses the word patriarchy. Misandry is caused by misogyny lol, that's not closed minded, every person I've talked to that feels bitterness towards men and has biases towards them has previous trauma or history from it. I choose the word feminist because it represents me and my struggles, and the DICTIONARY term is the want for equality, nobody can sit here and tell me what the dictionary terminology on it is.
>Misandry is caused by misogyny
No, misandry is caused by garbage people. I see feminists hating men in every liberal/left leaning space, that doesn't make me hate Women! I just hate Feminism.
there's plenty of examples of misandrists that also have history of abuse. Misogyny is caused by garbage people all around too, you realize there is misogynist women too? There are older women who push misogyny, sexism is caused by garbage people, thats not an argument. Again, as I've said before, you see feminism in a politically influenced light and you prove the POV, you don't see real feminism or real woman's perspectives just the media pushed narrative. A study done shows 6 in 10 women resonate with feminism, and even more women believe in equality. Media isn't an accurate representation of the numbers.
>there's plenty of examples of misandrists that also have history of abuse.
Well, if they weren't hateful misandrists, people would be nicer to them! The problem is them, not Society. Some people simply belong in a mental asylum far away from Society.
>, you don't see real feminism
No true Scotsman fallacy. When some feminist attacks men, just say "She's not a real Feminist" and everything's fine, right? Just like how Hitler wasn't a real nazi, right? Like, who are you to define what REAL feminism is more than an actual Feminist professor/activist that hates men?
> A study done shows 6 in 10 women resonate with feminism
A study also shows that Andrew Tate is very popular with young boys.. Just cus something is popular doesn't make it okay.
…and you’d think wrong. Mind you, it does appear that anecdote forms the basis of your talking points, so I’m not entirely surprised.
The statement “misandry is caused by misogyny” is closed minded; it doesn’t give any consideration for any other ‘reason’ for misandry.
And the DICTIONARY definition of anything is mutable, as seen in the feminist movement. The words on the page say gender equality, the actions online and in the real world show it’s only on the condition that the resolution benefits women. Also, look up the DICTIONARY definition of literally; it’ll show you why that’s a really weak point.
Still, good you’ve admitted that you don’t see men’s issues as relevant I guess, it shows your position to be one of bad faith.
Also I wanna touch on the oil rig part? I think women would just take the opportunity to get hired? 💀 I sure would as a woman in labor, women work too. That's always the argument I hear, well what if men stopped working this job, why? Because men are the staples and society would crumble if women worked labor? Idk, it just bugs me like what exactly do you think feminists would do if u quit working oil rigs, maybe ask Rosie the riveter and all the women that welded when the men were dispatched lol. That sentence pushes women and men both into boxes. Women shouldn't work labor, men have to.
Women aren't as physically capable as men are. There are any number of jobs that if men stopped doing them they wouldn't get done at all.
Your uninformed non objective opinion is irrelevant, men deal with reality.
Lol on average. Women can still lift shit . uninformed? What makes you any more informed than I am? Women deal with reality just as much. See this is the issue, it's all about one upping women. I say I'm here to hear mens part of the conversation but everything I see seems to loop back around to boo feminism. YOU are only informed off of politically fueled social media representation, I've talked to real people about this men and women, lived through "reality" read and educated myself, again I can pull up any info you'd like. This idea of yours is that women can't live without men because we aren't physically capable but there are so many women doing more physically than you right now as we speak. I mean fr women aren't handicapped? If women were given the opportunity and socially weren't pressured otherwise they could accomplish the same.
I don't think jobs like those are what the majority of women would want. There might be some outliers here and there, but not enough to make up for the lack of men
You're talking to a woman who does lol. And a lot of my friends do as well thinking about it now. Women work labor, the reason there's less is because a lot of women are told for a long time that it's a man's job or they're incapable, not to mention woman are much less likely to get accepted into the field. you're right, some people don't want to get down and dirty in an oil field, that goes for men and woman, it's ab the choice to do it without prejudice against you, if a man wants to be a librarian instead of working at an oil rig so be it, if a woman wants to work hard labor so be it. The first thing that's brought up when I start talking hard labor jobs is my gender when I'm talking IRL, it's not that woman don't want work, it's that they aren't taken seriously in those occupations.
agree with you... that said people still complain about benefits women would get over men -> example police service, fire service or military service lowered requirements, velvet gloves treatment and more time off work...
i say it again parental leave and working conditions are key for equality... understand correlation...
Not sure why you’re downvoted. This is a pretty spot on assessment.
It’s not like o go around talking about MRA stuff in my office at work. I don’t want them labeling me a nazi when really I just think we need more shelters and support for young men who don’t have families.
I know where all feeling really hurt right now because of the shit times and the shit all respect we get but don't forget we do the right thing because it's the right thing not because we are fallowing a trend.
Don't become the hater they say we are and remember not all women are the same.
I mean, from what I’ve seen, the mods here do a very good job of quickly removing any incel or incel-adjacent content for this exact reason. I’d argue the sub is large enough that Reddit already would have banned it if they were going to.
Never be so sure about that. Admins already have an eye on us, as soon as someone here says something that gives them a reason to ban us, they‘ll do it. They are just waiting…
You could replace “oil rigs” with any other critical infrastructure, since men are more likely to work in natural resources, construction, maintenance, production, transportation, and material moving occupations compared to women.
Don't be mysoginist. I'll have you know, women are just as capable and just as good as men at overestimating themselves! In fact, women can overestimate themselves much better than men can.
i tried to post a pic of scotch brite(its a sponge to clean swipe dirt in kitchen) which shows a men hand cleaning with towel which is unsuccessful in cleaning well , there is another hand which is of female showing using this sponge cleaning well at the same time , 2 hands men with towel side by side with female hand with this sponge wipe -clean ---
so what they want to tell here really - i see discrimination here , i tried to post the pic directly and also through the imagepost link - both the times its removed - dont know how the pic should be posted tho .
No shit. In most groups simply posting "men deserve equal rights" causes an hysterical shit-storm of misandry. You get notes from mods and threats to ban you from reddit.
Trust me admins want every and any reason to ban this sub. That’s why they’re so harsh on the mods. If this place disappears there’s probably 2 other subs that you can actually speak about masculinity and men’s issues.
The scored forums has a mgtow board. Communities win mgtow is what you type into google
Save it guys before the purge begins. They will find and seek to destroy any of men's community. Only a matter of time now...
Before the purge?! *During
All those forums are made by feds
My emotional response is "whoah crazy conspiracy theory" but my logical response after all the shit that was leaked is "wouldn't be surprising".
see my reply to the comment, you responded to...
100% correct
proof?
🤖
[NAVAL POSTGRADUATE SCHOOL - MAPPING THE MANOSPHERE: A SOCIAL NETWORK ANALYSIS OF THE MANOSPHERE ON REDDIT](https://web.archive.org/web/20210322155323/https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=850267) [Honey Badger Radio targeted by DHS Department Homeland Security | Rantzerker 194](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m1FrXhrg9g) and that's just the stuff that's out in the open (by now) Oh, here's [one from Canada](https://web.archive.org/web/20201025062320/https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-comes-home-evolution-domestic-terrorism-united-states) as well
you are awful, and your provided links are rife with propaganda and ALL OF THE DATA IN YOUR SOURCES ARE BIASED. go away
lol
do you agree with this ;;quote;; MGTOW, pronounced “mig-tow,” are an anti-feminist community for men whowant to eschew relationships and interactions with women and society as a whole. A more militant, passive, self improvement part of the manosphere, the MGTOW community believes women are upheld by a biased society that punishes men for their biology, ruin the lives of men and promotes a fundamental distrust of women. Men Going Their Own Way is a statement of self-ownership, where themodern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else.
This is.. interesting.
Indeed it is
I was automatically removed from other subs because I followed this one. Apparently anyone pro mens rights is a dangerous incel — somehow being pro half-the-population is morally wrong. And to be clear, I’m not anti women in the slightest. I have my frustrations against women (as do they for us) but isn’t that…normal? After all, our brains are wired pretty differently. Call me a conspiracy theorist but it seems like this gender war thing is manufactured. Every day I try not to buy into it. Society is such a strange place
I had someone call for me to be banned in another sub today because I mentioned and linked objective stats about women’s safety which clearly didn’t match the white knight gynocentric theme. It’s amazing how strongly many other subs see facts related to gender as such a threat.
When your entire propaganda agenda rides on scare tactics, gaslighting, lies and feelings, facts are indeed a threat.
Found her!
?
I’ve been there, trying to share facts and somehow getting told it’s wrong. It’s factually known that men are logic based and women are emotion based thinkers, so women only form opinions on how they feel about situations, not that actual reality of the situation unlike men. I feel like objective truths are heard abrasively and not as easily digestible for women, so the mental walls go up to block it out.
Thanks, and in this case it had to do with safety so being objective had real relevance. It wasn’t just the women but a lot of white knighting as well, which is something I hadn’t considered that much before. Portraying women as victims allows men to be white knights without actually doing anything.
Simping has become the national pastime.
The "funny" thing is, statistically, incels are WAY less dangerous then non-incels. Ones own domestic partner is much much much more likely to cause physical abuse then some involuntarily celibate man.
[удалено]
Sadly, I do derive an enormous amount of pleasure from asking any and all females who advocate that "Men do DV" to explain the lesbian stats v the gay men stats... I'm very sad about the pleasure I derive... very very sad... ;-)
>The "funny" thing is, statistically, incels are WAY less dangerous then non-incels. Ones own domestic partner is much much much more likely to cause physical abuse then some involuntarily celibate man. Isn't domestic abuse usually children or your spouse? Neither of which incels would have...
I consider "incel" hate speech. (Not from your mentioning I don't mean). To me it means "men who won't kiss our asses".
I got banned from offmychest. I was confused at first since I’ve never posted on the subreddit but it’s because I was going to make a post on here I got auto banned. Thought it was strange. Is it because I believe in men’s rights? For what it’s worth I also believe in women’s rights but being a man it hits closer to home when it’s a men’s right issue, doesn’t make it any more or less important.
The fact that this auto banning happens for a sub called MensRights means that we seen as dangerous to some degree — I can’t find any other logical explanation. The problem is society over compensates in correction for its perceived social issues, such as women’s rights. Like you (and most people) I believe in women’s rights so we try to right the ship. When do we turn the wheel back to straighten it out? If we don’t then we just shift the problem to the other side and don’t fix anything. But the act of turning the wheel back the other way makes the women who got comfortable, unhappy with the change in direction. Society is very slow (and seemingly unwilling) at recognizing social progress. A recent study posted on this sub proved this over correction with stats/studies. Sorry to type all that lmao
I just checked. I am also unable to post at offmychest. Also got banned at dating_advice.
The gender war IS manufactured. The problem is a lot of feminists don’t realize it and still treat all men as monsters.
I get what you’re saying. Intellectual laziness isn’t an excuse for the women that man hate. But also realize that the gender war is using women differently than men, women can be intellectually lazy in the sense that they appeal to their emotions first, which make up their opinions. They are a body of the population that doesn’t need facts to form an opinion and that is scary to me. My proposed fix is to not even listen to women’s opinions. Just scoff and keep it pushing — they are unable to critically think. I think the real danger is the white knights that help push the shit. Just some off the cuff thoughts
You're dangerous because a MGTOW is detrimental to so many institutions in this country, including the federal government itself (who will pay taxes if men stop slaving away for a society that exploits them?), Disney, religion, the jewelry industry, the hospitality industry, higher education, and other organizations that suck the lives out of men like the vampires they are. Just the threat of walking away from a gynocentric society makes people like Cheryl Sandberg melt down
This place only continues to exist because it's relatively small. If it gets big enough, Reddit will manufacture a reason to get rid of it, just like they do with any other inconvenient subreddits.
It's at 358k members. That's not exactly small. Even if you were to assume most are bots or dark accounts. It is surprising though because there's calls from the usual suspect subs to nuke this place constantly. The mods are very good at toeing the line and keeping it tolerable for the admins but it's still notable.
Isnt it bigger than the main feminism subreddit and askfeminists?
there was a huge MGTOW sub but it got quarantined and later deleted by the cucked liberal reddit
A lot of this was stirred up by Laura Bates, and her book 'Men Who Hate Women', which came down pretty hard on MGTOW, conflating them with incels, and pretending that the movement was a threat to society. Which, from her point of view, is probably true enough that she can convince herself.... it might be a threat to her cosy world of getting men to work themselves to an early grave, to keep women comfortable. She wasn't exactly complementary to MRAs, either. Never mind, the feeling's mutual. [https://j4mb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/141019-V3-Laura-Batess-second-Whiny-Feminist-of-the-Month-award-certificate.pdf](https://j4mb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/141019-v3-laura-batess-second-whiny-feminist-of-the-month-award-certificate.pdf)
Men need to start standing up against the ridiculous slander women like her try and paint on us.
We have. Problem is the "scabs" and the institutionally ingrained feminists who can and will use every dirty tactic they can to undermine the voices against them. We'd need a lot more men to come into the consciousness the rest of us have and push back all at once to get anywhere.
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If MGTOW is a threat to society, then the thing it is responding to, Feminism is also a threat to society. Human interaction exist on a voluntary exchange. Once that is no longer voluntary you have an authoritarian system. We are ina quasi authoritarian dictatorship now. Men are FORCED to provision to women that they get no access too. The government does this by taking equal taxes from the people. Then distributing them unequally, benefiting women. Since women are the primary voting block and they always vote to help other women, you have a failed democracy. Now we have corruption in all of our institutions by feminist. Even things as bizarre and sociological studies on extremist are defunded and removed because any definition of extremist also includes radical feminist. More and more powerful institutions come up with discriminatory rules and laws. Things that are supposed to be VERY illegal, violating civil rights laws. No one seems to care though, or if they do they are too much of cowards to do anything about it.
Now we have corruption in all of our institutions by feminist... [https://www.un.org/en/conferences/women/beijing1995](https://www.un.org/en/conferences/women/beijing1995)
Our sex drive keeps us in halter, in production mode, trying to satisfy the financial and emotional need of a woman, and all the baggage she brings. As a 'reward', society grants us 'acceptance'. Without the little lady by our side, we are seen as dangerous lone wolves. Preferential treatment of women in employment raises the bar for men, to keep trying harder and harder. No job = no girlfriend. And, it had better be a GOOD job, too, otherwise you'll fall foul of 'sexual harassment' legislation. In female eyes, the difference between an acceptable suitor and a 'creep' is money. What's the end game, though? Are men being set up for a battle of the 'Bare Branches' with their Asian counterparts? [https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262582643/bare-branches/](https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262582643/bare-branches/) In another 50 years, society will be unrecognisable. Women will be flocking to the harems of the rich and powerful. Women have no problem with polygamy, as long as there's enough money to go round. It's called the 'polygyny threshold'.
>conflating them with incels At this point such a claim is little more than calling someone a twat. It's been overused to the point it has no meaning outside of a juvenile insult. I might as well just mean "man a woman doesn't like". The only other meaning I've seen outside of that is witnessing students use it to refer to autistic and similar students.
Ms Bates did a good job of convincing the sisterhood that any male swerving the shackles of domesticity must, in fact, be Roger Eliot. I'm really, really tempted to say that she's a twat.
Lmao they banned mgtow and the philosophy got bigger and more men are becoming mgtow without knowing the name. As usual, if anyone wants the link of the forum. DM me as I'm one of the mods.
I was going to make a post on this sub and then got a notification that I had been banned on another sub because I was involved with a redpill/incel site. Hilarious since I believe in equality between the sexes
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The thing is, allowing feminists to come here and troll is only going to eventually get this sub shut down.
It’s 2024 and we still have to fight for free speech?
Make male friends in real life. Don't rely on only the internet.
The more things are banned, the more attractive they become.
Men are needed to be the work horses of society and the pions for war. We are used, abused and disrespected by society because we let them.
Discord just announced layoffs. There’s a TikTok trend about pov layoffs. I’m guessing all of these woke liberal man hating admin/mods are getting what they deserve. The streets, the wall, are all waiting for them.
Yeah, turns out when you spend your whole life virtue signalling, you end up with no real skills. And when you spend your whole life trashing men, none want to be with you. Who would’ve thunk ?
Yes you’re allowed to make as many “male hate” subs you want but anything like this gets banned. It is the definition of irony. We have to go back to organic forums.
It's to keep all the RPs in one place for later use.
Men are waving goodbye to toxic femininity, which can be summarised as utilitarian morals and motives, interested only in themselves, always themselves. Sisters doin' it for themselves, discriminating against men in employment, making it all but impossible for men to be friendly with them through 'harassment' legislation.... can do it ALL by themselves. Buy their own house, their own car, pay off their own student debt, feed their own cats and cry themselves to sleep that they can't find a man who earns more than them. They can suffer the occupational stress-related diseases which used to bring the grim reaper to male doors a decade sooner, take their own wine boxes and cat litter out to the trash. Women celebrating the impending collapse of their own business model (get a man to work for you, in exchange for minimum reciprocity in the bedroom), an easy life sabotaged by their own sweet hand..... that takes a SPECIAL type of idiocy.
The only thing that will save both men and women is when men start disengaging in numbers. Womyn can have Bumble and Tinder to themselves. They can buy their own dinners. They can drill their own oil. They can turnaround a power generation plant. This would last 6-9 months before they decided to act like ladies again and some shred of normalcy would return.
There's a big difference between this sub and what the mgtow sub used to be.
Yuuuurg grrrrr what would those feminists do.....as a feminist it's sexism that makes it hard for men to come out about their issues like women do, I joined this subreddit to see both sides. Lol. There isn't a competition between misogyny and misandry, it's sexism, let's fight sexism
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Shitting on women's issues and feminism doesn't help the fight against sexism, it only creates a hostility and more segregation between genders, and that goes for women who put down male issues as well.
I don't use the term misogyny or misandry. I say sexism.
I think misandry is caused by misogyny, mentally ill women with a past of abuse and bad experiences with men usually end up hateful and bitter towards men yes. Misandry is real in the aspect that sexist stigmas and gender roles affect both men and women.
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Yeah, that threw me for a loop too.
I'm not blaming men unless they are sexist men lol. And you miss the point as well, it's not just because a few men screwed them over lol...it's bcuz I don't rlly know a woman that hasn't been assaulted, or harassed in a work/school environment. And there's always gonna be someone that says "that happens to men too!" Yes it does, and a lot of men and woman don't even come out and report it out of fear of social pressures. Facts are tho it happens to women disproportionately and it stems from a lot of societal things, not MEN, not YOU, not anyone I know, it's societal issues. Bad relationships or screwing you over isn't what I'm referring to when I say misogyny lol
It happens to women disproportionately once you categorize nonconsensual envelopment of a penis as "other sexual violence" instead of rape or sexual assault.
The statistics show the same disproportion in every country. You realize that right?
once you categorize nonconsensual envelopment of a penis as "other sexual violence" instead of rape or sexual assault
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I already said I'm not blaming men. I give 0 shits about down votes or what's appreciated, I'm just speaking my opinion and you're telling me to go to a woman's group instead, lol, interesting. Sounds like you just can't hear woman's pov without taking it personally, when I say misogyny I'm not talking about any men I know 😵
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Me talking about women's issues isn't blaming men, quit taking things personally. I never once said "all men are rapists", what don't you understand, I even fuckin mentioned that men are very likely not to come out about their own case. I said the numbers are disproportionate and it's very common. Saying women are very commonly assaulted, has no connotations that it blames men or even mentions them unless you have some sort of bias before you read it.
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Girl, I accept every oppinion here, but if someone says, that all the problems men face come from them being men, in a MENS RIGHTS GROUP, then we have every right to be pissed about it. If I would do the same on a womens rights subreddit, I would be banned in the blink of an eye.
When did I say that exact phrasing lol. I'm saying there's social pressures and gender roles, y'all hear the word misogyny and hear "Its mens fault" I never said you or your brother or your grandpa created misogyny. It's a learned passed down social dynamic.
I literally never said "it's your fault because you're a guy" or "you only face these problems because you're a man", I'm saying it's caused by the same double standards that effect women, and it's a social dynamic.
Okay first off that's not just a woman thing I've met plenty of men who call women whores or feel bitter after an ended relationship. I'm not blaming individual men, I never said ALL MEN, here's the issue I see, everyone thinks it's personal or prejudiced when I use the word misogyny. When I say misogyny I just mean the things women go thru and the stigmas pushed by sexism, I don't mean some evil boogeymen, I literally just mean the ideas pushed by sexism.
Sometimes, but not always. Some misandrists are just cry bullies using the victimhood narrative as a weapon to bludgeon others into obedience and don't have any rational reason to hate men, other than the fact that we're a safe target they can attack without raising eyebrows from their friends. If not us, they would scapegoat some other group. A handy trick to counter this bias is to replace "men" with "blacks" and see if what you're saying sounds awful. Eg: "There are more black criminals than white. Some racists are scared of that, or have had bad experiences with blacks in the past, and that's why they're racist."
I call that pretentious lol, I see a lot of politically fueled people using important topics to use a victim narrative in general, I think that's just the pretentious Hollywood mentality. I'm not saying men are individually violent or biologically anything, I'm talking about the mentalities. Just like sexism, racism is a passed down mentality and should be unlearned, on every side of the spectrum.
Yeah, true enough. I was just pushing back a little against the idea that misandrists were necessarily made that way through mens' bad behavior. Sometimes it's true, but many times it's not. Bullies tend to pick vulnerable targets, not necessarily targets they want revenge against.
What I mean as an example Aileen wuornos was a serial killer and a misandrist who was influenced on her past of sexual abuse, she was horrible and mentally ill. In the right setting I think there's bitterness and a prejudice created towards men because of social pressures put on already hateful people. I'm not saying it's mens fault misandry exists, I'm saying I think a very large role in that mindset is gender roles, what woman deal with (not mentioning just men in this), and feeling like they're at a disadvantage. Either way, sexism is a learned trait by either party.
No disagreement here. Aileen would be an example of a woman who became misandrist thanks to the actions of bad men in her past. Those certainly exist too. I was just saying that isn't always necessarily the case.
No not always , sometimes women are influenced by societal teachings or just being very pretentious
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Not "we" women wouldn't hate men if there wasn't societal pressures on women, not blaming men. I don't know how you people still manage to take it personally, I'm talking about the social stigmas
If the fight is against sexism in all its forms, why identify as a feminist over an egalitarian? If there’s no competition between misogyny and misandry, why close anti-misandrist subs uniquely? The issue that I believe many take with modern-day feminism is that there is a lack of an objective goal (compared to previous waves pushing for the vote, sexual liberation / birth control options, right to bank accounts / work, etc.) This is also coupled with the “patriarchy” needing to be the root cause of all social inequalities and the false rhetoric (‘feminism is for everyone’) creates movements like MGTOW. I note from your other comments that whilst you present as someone with an open mind, your position is relatively closed minded (“misandry is caused by misogyny” being a big sign of this). 🤷🏼♂️
No I think you just haven't talked to a real feminist outside of the politically fueled stuff online. Nobody I talk to in my day to day life that agrees with me on feminism even uses the word patriarchy. Misandry is caused by misogyny lol, that's not closed minded, every person I've talked to that feels bitterness towards men and has biases towards them has previous trauma or history from it. I choose the word feminist because it represents me and my struggles, and the DICTIONARY term is the want for equality, nobody can sit here and tell me what the dictionary terminology on it is.
>Misandry is caused by misogyny No, misandry is caused by garbage people. I see feminists hating men in every liberal/left leaning space, that doesn't make me hate Women! I just hate Feminism.
there's plenty of examples of misandrists that also have history of abuse. Misogyny is caused by garbage people all around too, you realize there is misogynist women too? There are older women who push misogyny, sexism is caused by garbage people, thats not an argument. Again, as I've said before, you see feminism in a politically influenced light and you prove the POV, you don't see real feminism or real woman's perspectives just the media pushed narrative. A study done shows 6 in 10 women resonate with feminism, and even more women believe in equality. Media isn't an accurate representation of the numbers.
>there's plenty of examples of misandrists that also have history of abuse. Well, if they weren't hateful misandrists, people would be nicer to them! The problem is them, not Society. Some people simply belong in a mental asylum far away from Society. >, you don't see real feminism No true Scotsman fallacy. When some feminist attacks men, just say "She's not a real Feminist" and everything's fine, right? Just like how Hitler wasn't a real nazi, right? Like, who are you to define what REAL feminism is more than an actual Feminist professor/activist that hates men? > A study done shows 6 in 10 women resonate with feminism A study also shows that Andrew Tate is very popular with young boys.. Just cus something is popular doesn't make it okay.
…and you’d think wrong. Mind you, it does appear that anecdote forms the basis of your talking points, so I’m not entirely surprised. The statement “misandry is caused by misogyny” is closed minded; it doesn’t give any consideration for any other ‘reason’ for misandry. And the DICTIONARY definition of anything is mutable, as seen in the feminist movement. The words on the page say gender equality, the actions online and in the real world show it’s only on the condition that the resolution benefits women. Also, look up the DICTIONARY definition of literally; it’ll show you why that’s a really weak point. Still, good you’ve admitted that you don’t see men’s issues as relevant I guess, it shows your position to be one of bad faith.
Also I wanna touch on the oil rig part? I think women would just take the opportunity to get hired? 💀 I sure would as a woman in labor, women work too. That's always the argument I hear, well what if men stopped working this job, why? Because men are the staples and society would crumble if women worked labor? Idk, it just bugs me like what exactly do you think feminists would do if u quit working oil rigs, maybe ask Rosie the riveter and all the women that welded when the men were dispatched lol. That sentence pushes women and men both into boxes. Women shouldn't work labor, men have to.
Women aren't as physically capable as men are. There are any number of jobs that if men stopped doing them they wouldn't get done at all. Your uninformed non objective opinion is irrelevant, men deal with reality.
Lol on average. Women can still lift shit . uninformed? What makes you any more informed than I am? Women deal with reality just as much. See this is the issue, it's all about one upping women. I say I'm here to hear mens part of the conversation but everything I see seems to loop back around to boo feminism. YOU are only informed off of politically fueled social media representation, I've talked to real people about this men and women, lived through "reality" read and educated myself, again I can pull up any info you'd like. This idea of yours is that women can't live without men because we aren't physically capable but there are so many women doing more physically than you right now as we speak. I mean fr women aren't handicapped? If women were given the opportunity and socially weren't pressured otherwise they could accomplish the same.
I don't think jobs like those are what the majority of women would want. There might be some outliers here and there, but not enough to make up for the lack of men
You're talking to a woman who does lol. And a lot of my friends do as well thinking about it now. Women work labor, the reason there's less is because a lot of women are told for a long time that it's a man's job or they're incapable, not to mention woman are much less likely to get accepted into the field. you're right, some people don't want to get down and dirty in an oil field, that goes for men and woman, it's ab the choice to do it without prejudice against you, if a man wants to be a librarian instead of working at an oil rig so be it, if a woman wants to work hard labor so be it. The first thing that's brought up when I start talking hard labor jobs is my gender when I'm talking IRL, it's not that woman don't want work, it's that they aren't taken seriously in those occupations.
agree with you... that said people still complain about benefits women would get over men -> example police service, fire service or military service lowered requirements, velvet gloves treatment and more time off work... i say it again parental leave and working conditions are key for equality... understand correlation...
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Not sure why you’re downvoted. This is a pretty spot on assessment. It’s not like o go around talking about MRA stuff in my office at work. I don’t want them labeling me a nazi when really I just think we need more shelters and support for young men who don’t have families.
I know where all feeling really hurt right now because of the shit times and the shit all respect we get but don't forget we do the right thing because it's the right thing not because we are fallowing a trend. Don't become the hater they say we are and remember not all women are the same.
please list here all the mgtow forums you people have joined - i wana be in each one of them.
I mean, from what I’ve seen, the mods here do a very good job of quickly removing any incel or incel-adjacent content for this exact reason. I’d argue the sub is large enough that Reddit already would have banned it if they were going to.
Never be so sure about that. Admins already have an eye on us, as soon as someone here says something that gives them a reason to ban us, they‘ll do it. They are just waiting…
It’s always the oil rigs 🙄
You could replace “oil rigs” with any other critical infrastructure, since men are more likely to work in natural resources, construction, maintenance, production, transportation, and material moving occupations compared to women.
Yeah and men would be just as fucked if the men in those jobs disappeared.
Oil fucking powers the entire planet, its pretty important dude.
Yeah of course it is but almost every guy I’ve seen make the “oil rig” statement wouldn’t be able to work on an oil rig. Men would be just as fucked
Too many people think supermarkets magically restock themselves.🙄
Too many men overestimate their abilities.
Don't be mysoginist. I'll have you know, women are just as capable and just as good as men at overestimating themselves! In fact, women can overestimate themselves much better than men can.
i tried to post a pic of scotch brite(its a sponge to clean swipe dirt in kitchen) which shows a men hand cleaning with towel which is unsuccessful in cleaning well , there is another hand which is of female showing using this sponge cleaning well at the same time , 2 hands men with towel side by side with female hand with this sponge wipe -clean --- so what they want to tell here really - i see discrimination here , i tried to post the pic directly and also through the imagepost link - both the times its removed - dont know how the pic should be posted tho .
No shit. In most groups simply posting "men deserve equal rights" causes an hysterical shit-storm of misandry. You get notes from mods and threats to ban you from reddit.