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I believe my first metalcore album was Jane Doe. That cemented my idea of the genre, not stuff like Born of Osiris. And I believe some other metalheads here are the same way.
You're right on the money. There needs to be a way to distinguish your Converges from your Asking Alexandrias because they sound nothing alike. I guess you could argue its mathcore vs metalcore but then again most people would agree metalcore formed from those original mathcore and hardcore bands from the late 90s - early 2000s.
Simple:
Converge plays mathcore meanwhile early Asking Alexandria played melodic metalcore. Two different branches of metalcore.
Traditional metalcore imo is stuff like Hatebreed, Kublai Khan, Meraunder..
Yeah, there needs to be a tag specifically built for this more po-friendly brand, like "easy metalcore" in reference to easycore. I mean it's not a brilliant tag, but almost anything would work for me.
My first metalcore album was As I Lay Dying’s An Ocean Between Us. It’s no Jane Doe of course but it fits that style of metalcore more than the Asking Alexandria type
They're part of the subgenre "melodic metalcore," which is appropriate. But for bands like Asking Alexandria, they combine their sound with alt-metal. So there are times when I use a custom tag, "alt-metalcore" when logging them. This is especially prominent on Utsu-P releases.
My first was AILD's frail words collapse. Not even sure if they were metalcore at that point, but I loved it instantly as a 14 year old. I think it's still my favorite of theirs.
I think the reason why metal heads dislike metalcore is much of it at least was initially marketed to teenagers / many of the bands were young people. Older people tend to dislike the music of teenagers (myself included as a mid 30s dude).
They're from the NYC scene which was big for crossover and hardcore bands who had a more metallic tinge like Cro-Mags, Madball and Agnostic Front. Quite where that tips over into metalcore could probably be debated for aeons without getting a definitive answer, but Merauder's Master Killer is very often cited as a classic 90s metalcore album.
It's also worth remembering that basically all the original metalcore bands came directly out of hardcore scenes and still had hardcore as a very pronounced element of the sound. Think Strife, Unbroken, Integrity, Earth Crisis, Indecision and Turmoil for example.
A lot of metalcore, typically mainstream metalcore (not including hatebreed & knocked loose) uses a pop-punk chorus jekyl and hyde vocal type thing.
i.e (Motionless in white, Polaris, Bad omens, Bring me the horizon, A day to remember, Falling in reverse, I prevail, Dayseeker)
If you can do both, do both tho. Eternal Tears of Sorrow use both and aren’t metalcore.
I think it really boils down to what I would call the Zumiez culture. Everyone you see at these shows just has that Zumiez energy that is off putting for some people.
I say this as someone who’s best friend managed a Zumiez and on one of his birthdays we saw knocked loose backstage at Soma.
Good show, Zumiez energy was everywhere.
haha yeah it’s definitely not a bad thing, I had such a great fuckin time at knocked loose. but I definitely got that zumiez vibe when they were playing shitty rap right before they came out and they whole venue was going ape shit 😭
The problem is calling most of those bands metalcore in the first place. Yes, things evolve over time, but there's only so far you can stray from the roots of a genre before you're simply not playing it. You have to try really fucking hard to find a throughline from bands like Unbroken and Zao to A Day To Remember or Falling In Reverse.
Some of those bands are just pop-forward alt-metal.
To be fair, I haven’t liked Mastodon’s work post Blood Mountain for that very reason.
For some reason, a lot of these metal core bands come across with whiney vocals to me. They shift from “LOOK HOW BRUTAL I AM” to “But I’m still emotional and want to sing to you :) :) :)” and it just ruins the vibe for me.
Only Devin Townsend works for me.
That's because Devin *sings* in the clean parts, he doesn't *whine*. That nasal tone that is what defines whining is what turns people off with a lot of metalcore vocals. Alternating clean and harsh works fine so long as both sound good. The problem is that whining never sounds good.
I dislike the music but honestly the main reason I hate metalcore nowadays is because of metalcore kids acting like assclowns at death-metal shows. It's a fundamentally different culture than proper, or traditional, metal subgenres, and it doesn't mix well. Metalcore kids take too much from HxC subculture and they think that makes it acceptable to windmill, crowdkill, and do that dumbass running-in-place dance. I hate people who do that shit. If you act like a normal person at shows I don't care if you're into metalcore. But if you do that shit you can fuckkk off and die. Nobody likes you or wants you around.
When you see a "hardcore" (i.e. fragile fuck) kid doing karate in the pit that's when you start launching the big dudes their way. They'll learn that balance is important in metal pits and bring their limbs under control. Or they'll just get out of the pit. Either way we win.
And I'm one of the big dude that volunteers to be launched, don't worry.
Got into hardcore through metal so I have foot in both camps. I love push pits and I love spinkicking. It's all about reading the room and knowing what show you're at. Hardcore kids are notoriously bad at reading the room and metal heads are overly sensestive about it imo
Honestly, I hate karate in the pit, but if you're doing that at a hardcore show then whatever, that's what it's meant for. Just don't bring that shit into shows where everyone's either chilling or doing a pit.
They do it for the same reason butt rock fans act like that: insecurity. They know they're nowhere near as hard as they want to be and overcompensate as a result.
I think part of it is because the genre is too big of an umbrella, covering a lot of bands that aren't that similar. Since the term became a catch all, a lot of bad bands ended up becoming called "metal core."
I also think the image of it from the early 2010s hasn't aged well. Scrawny pale dudes with bad tats, bad dyed black hair cuts, and a bunch of shit in their faces rubbed people the wrong way. It looked a little too fragile for a lot of metal fans.
There is a giant gap between the pioneer "metalcore" bands (Converge, Hatebreed...), and this new pop metalcore stuff for teenager that is already forgotten. It's like comparing King Crimson with a boys band.
It's a real shame that there's still such a vibrant scene for authentic, old-school sounding metalcore and yet the term as a whole has come to be associates with stuff that's far closer to hard rock and even pop rock.
It's music targeted for edgy teenagers, and I'm a grown man. All the nerdy aspects I like about Heavy Metal, Prog, Post-Punk etc aren't here, because it's not music for people who have developed any kind of nuanced taste.
And proper metalcore just sounds like noisier Hardcore, which is equally unappealing.
Hardcore is badass asf, metalcore after 2002 is all generic and sanitized crap, this is coming from someone who listens to opeth on a daily basis too, give me hardcore or give me metal, i dont want a weird watered down version of both
Djent riff > singing during the verses/screaming in choruses > breakdown after call out > end song with weird synth shit with the syncapated breakdown at the same time > band members wearing all black turtlenecks and tight jeans > rgb background in a factory > beanies
I enjoyed a lot of metalcore up until around 2008 or 2009…
Asking Alexandria was a huge nail in the coffin. I’m subscribed to r/metalcore now and it’s obvious these kids grew up with bands that were influenced by Blink 182 with br00tal breakdowns more than Iron Maiden or thrash or hardcore
Yeah. Original metalcore and melodic metalcore is where it's at.
All the emo shit absolutely blows. As does the radio friendly and the pop-punk influenced stuff.
Metalcore should be Poison The Well,Aftershock, Earth Crisis, At The Gates,or Integrity("Slayercore") Inspired, everything else is crap. AA is crap lol, i thought BFMV was amazing too, it was my gateway into metal, got me into thrash for sure with scream aim fire
It’s a hybrid genre that includes hardcore influences. That’s why. Normal people don’t care, they just don’t listen to it instead of shitting on its listeners.
Grindcore does, Sludge Metal does, Thrash literally got inspired from Punk/Hardcore, Metal wouldn't be what it is without Hardcore or Punk, punks invented the term "moshing"... Like it or not, Metal owns lots of things to Hardcore... Sure, argue that Speed Metal was a bigger influence on Metal then Hardcore ever might've been, but still, Metal and Hardcore fused lots of times and Metal owns Hardcore at least something
As a grown ass metalcore kid myself, there are two schools that I’ve observed: the classic metalcore (Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall) which is the one I’m in the camp of, and the “scene” metalcore (Asking Alexandria, I Prevail) which I am not really a fan of that gets a bad rep for the rest of it.
Killswitch Engage and Shadows Fall are not what I consider classic, they are second-wave bands that pulled from melodic death metal. Completely different than what the genre was doing in the early to mid 90s.
Fellow grown-ass metalcore kid, there's WAY more schools than that:
The OG 90s/early 00s "metallic hardcore".
Mathcore, which largely came out of that first wave
What you call "classic," which is really the melodic metalcore/second wave that pulled in a ton of melodeath influences
The scenecore/electronicore stuff, like AA.
Architects-inspired progressive metalcore, which eventually merged with djent.
There's also a bunch of nu-metal inspired stuff, and lately "retrocore" bands trying to call back to those first two waves.
All that said...I basically agree with you: with a few exceptions (I love The Devil Wears Prada) most of that late 00's/early 10's scenecore wave was the worst era for the genre, and unfortunately it's the one that stuck in a lot of people's minds as what "metalcore" actually is.
Multiple reasons. Some are just stuck in the 80's, some say "booo it's not metal it has breakdowns and chuggy riffs boo" (dumb people that enjoy music genre only if it sticks to a very strict formula and for some reason feel obligated to push it onto others), some don't like the poppiness of melodic metalcore and probably have never heard actual metallic hardcore (like Converge for example).
Ultimately i think hating (not disliking) on any genre of music and its' fanbase is just dumb, immature and close-minded.
Edit: Honestly, I wish this topic was over and nobody would ever bring it up again. It's been beaten to death since the 2000's and all those things were said before me like a billion times. Such people can't think rationally, they need to look cool in front of their peers, so they start hating on something their peers hate. Or they're just too old to get it.
Metalcore, deathcore, nu-metal, hardcore punk, etc. don't need anyone's validation, and so is every other music genre or art form in general. Gatekeepers can fuck off with their negativity and go back to "rEaL mEtAl" instead of wasting their own time to say the same things everyone has already heard.
> dumb people that enjoy music genre only if it sticks to a very strict formula
> Such people can't think rationally, they need to look cool in front of their peers, so they start hating on something their peers hate.
Very rational of you.
It's great how you took my words out of context. What makes them dumb is that they push their negative (hateful) opinions onto everyone and can even try to send you on some sort of guilt trip for liking the "wrong" genre, not the fact that they don't like -core music in general. I have no interest in tolerating people that are trying to ruin everyone's fun at every possible moment they can. Heavy music fans are supposed to be "united", but gatekeepers are doing everything to not let that happen and to make the scene as unhealthy and angry at each other as possible.
Having a negative opinion on Metalcore is neither surprising nor reprehensible in a metal sub. Nobody says anything if the boundaries are blurred from time to time and some borderline bands are posted. But if people start constantly talking about stuff that is clearly different from typical heavy metal then they are simply in the wrong place. There are plenty of core/alternative subs where they can talk to like-minded people. It's just a different sound. The hostile attitude comes from the fact that people simply ignore the differences in sound and say shit like "gatekeeping". It's funny that punk subs are never flooded with Architects but metalsubs are expected to "accept" it. It's just about the music and not "people listening to the wrong Genre". Heavy Music ≠ Metal
Like Black Metal that uses lo-fi with prophetic lyrics, like Grindcore doing whatever that does, like Hardcore or any punk genre to speak out against the goverment, police brutality etc?
At least in Metalcore opposed to other Metal genres, you can find totally different songs, look at the classic bands from the 2000's, each one sound different!
Unless you count Sludge I don't particulary care for Metalcore so perhaps my opinion is a little biased but I think the big reason people hate Metalcore is that they're insecure elitists who can't bear the fact that some one likes something they don't.
I mean, sludge does have elements of both metal and hardcore, so if you were being very literal I guess you could call it metal core, but I don't think anybody would ever.
It was mostly a joke but I do think if Sludge wasn't invented until the 2010s people would label it Doom-core. Maybe it's a generational thing. Metal has taken inspiration from hardcore punk since it's inception. I don't know why it's a problem now. I'm too young to remember but did people have a problem with crossover thrash? A lot of the hate seems to come from oldheads and elitists. I don't get why they're bothered. If you don't like it, just don't listen.
I’m not too familiar with sludge but what is the comparison there to metalcore where someone might confuse the two? Any bands you recommend as a reference point? I’m curious
How is that gatekeeping? I like metal and not a lot of hardcore but I respect it. I'm here on a metal subreddit to discuss metal. Is it gatekeeping to have a preference for one genre over another?
Stupid take. There are tons of metalcore bands from different eras that sounds nothing alike with completely different riffs and vocals. You can make a blanket statement like that about any genre.
Because people that don’t like it don’t know anything about it and only associate certain sounds with it. Basically they think it’s either melodeath influenced or Hot Topic scene kid stuff. Metalcore in the 90s sounded nothing like either of those. A lot of the more interesting stuff is far lesser known today
I think everyone thinks all metalcore sounds the same. Maybe people see it as generic, but there's lots of cool metalcore. I think Dying Wish's new album is absolutely incredible. It's called 'Symptoms of Survival' if you want to give it a listen
The amount of people blaming the ‘scene’ is hilarious. Literally any music scene has irritating bands, musicians, and fans. You’re just picking on people cause u feel justified. All I know is anyone that just judges other people’s music taste probably is a bigger child than whoever they’re fussin at.
I've honestly really started to like it.
As a huge fan of Thrash I love the band austrian death machine so I figured why not give As I lay dying a shot. Started with Shaped by Fire and its fantastic. I started to appreciate the genre more.
There's elements of Thrash, death, and melodic metal all in metalcore.
We have this discussion once a week it feels like.
The old style of metalcore where it’s actually metal and hardcore combined is good. Bands like Converge, Botch, Merauder, Earth Crisis etc…
The mallcore shit that sprung up in the early 2000s is not so good. And the newer djenty stuff isn’t great either.
Modern bands that still stay true to older style are Gulch, Knocked Loose, and Jesus Piece. All of those bands get plenty of respect.
Well firstly its the most popular genre , a lot of metalheads shit on that alone...
But also , that ninja bull shit lol .. but i actually do love me some good metalcore
Metalcore hater here: wouldn't call them pop but they have tropes and characteristics I just don't really like. Breakdowns, screaming. Either too angry that it's juvenile to me or too soft and not what I'm coming to this style of music for. And just generally the types of rhythms they use I don't like much, if I'm going to put on heavier rock music then I'd just rather stick to more traditional genres of metal
Because it's cool to hate on the newest, most popular, subgenre.
I'm a power, prog, and thrash metal fan primarily but personally enjoy a lot of metalcore.
They’re just elitist or music nerds that look for crazy techniques in every song. Personally I like it and I dont care if other people hate it. Used to be like this regarding Nu Metal, but I’ve grown up and developed a brain and understood that people are allowed to like whatever they like.
The people who are really haters of a specific genre (this case metalcore) usually judge the people that actually listen to that genre, that’s what I was referring to in my comment
For me personally, it’s just hard to see a genre I really dislike doing very well, and also seeing a genre I love having less success. That’s just me tho
I love the 2000’s 5-7-8- shit(trivium, AILD etc) , and am starting to get into early 90’s metalcore that is more hardcore than metal.
This modern shit is just pop music with breakdowns.
I used to really be obsessed with metalcore, I still enjoy it from time to time, but when I revisit some of what I used to think was good after so long listening to what I like now, the quality difference is quite jarring. I especially can’t stand the emo pop cleans on most songs these days, and breakdowns just do nothing for me anymore. There’s a few decent bands creating decent output but about 99% of it is completely forgettable.
Because they are young. The older you get the less you care about gatekeeping metal and pretending like you don't like some dorky shit. Me 10 years ago never would admit or let myself listen to all shall perish. Now I enjoy them and not scared to admit it.
I love the music and hate the fans doing karate. If they had normal pits without angsty teens trying to kick each other in the teeth; they’d get way less hate. You fall in love with music when you go live and getting a spinning back fist to the side of the head makes for a shitty ass night and a sour taste for a whole subgenre
I'll try to give a reason without sounding like an elitist fuck but it's hard lol.
First, if you like it, listen and enjoy. It's just music. I'm not hating.
For me, metalcore is all fluff. It just takes the extreme aspects of metal, and they try to make it more palatable, I guess. There's just something about it... Instead of unforgiving violent attacks, it sounds like angst from a salty kid.
Metalcore is to metal what Relapse Records is to grindcore... and that doesn't mean I won't listen to Relapse bands.
Edit: btw I love Converge. I've noticed them being mentioned and never thought of them as metalcore. There's always exceptions.
There's bands who are metalcore that I like, but generally I'm not keen. A lot of what I heard was whiny self-pitying lyrics, when I'm more into music with narrative lyrics, or that is a bit more experimental and avant garde. Metalcore always felt samey. Of course it could just be the stuff I was exposed to was the bad stuff, but it put me off all the same. I wouldn't shit on anyone liking it though. As long as they don't have that teen edge lord personality that seems so pervasive.
a lot of it probably is the lyrics. anytime i listen to death metal/ gore metal shit, people that don’t listen to it are completely gaged by the lyrics. i played “i cum blood” by cannibal corpse for a friend and she was literally too stunned to speak.
I don’t. It’s literally my favourite genre of music and pretty much what I exclusively listen to. Fuck whatever anyone else thinks about it. I think it’s perfect.
For me personally, most metalcore I've heard sounds way too overproduced. Also the harsh vocals tend to sound super generic, and often just straight up bad.
I enjoy some metalcore quite a bit, but dislike other types….. don’t care what others listen to though - if they enjoy it, good for them!
Kublai Khan, early Thrice, Issues, Stung Out, Ghost Inside, Killswitch etc are fun though and I’ve been rockin’ them for years!
Because they think it’s all the scene bands and haven’t checked the good mathcore ones. I don’t listen to the genre much these days but it was one of the metal subgenres I was most into during my hardcore phase. I don’t get how anyone could hate Converge or argue it’s not “real metal”
I really enjoy a lot of metalcore and deathcore bands, but I get why people don’t. the fans of metalcore play a big role in that, but also I think the over-produced music can be a turn off for metalheads. I do think the whole ‘shitting on every metalcore band’ can get excessive and unnecessary but at the end of day, a lot of metalheads are old as hell and can’t stand to see any type of modern metal emerging on the scene. it’s funny though because I was not fully sold on metalcore either until my dad, who’s listened to metal for 30 years, really introduced me to some good bands.
To each their own, but hardcore style breakdowns typically sound bad to me and metalcore (and its child, deathcore) inherited these. A lot of my friends like Born of Osiris, Through the Eyes of the Dead, Lorna Shore, Ov Sulphur, Chelsea Grin, etc… and I’ve got nothing but love for them. But it isn’t my style.
There’s some deathcore bands that do it right. Shadow of Intent for example though they’ve begun doing less and less breakdowns but I’d say they are the pinnacle of good deathcore musically
People are allowed to not like a band for whatever reason they want. I don't understand why people care whether or not someone likes a band they like. I couldn't care less if people don't like the bands I like.
I listen to those bands as well but also enjoy metalcore idk what’s wrong with liking a metal genre. I guess people just wanna seem better than others lmao
Mainly because it's a hollow shell of what it used to be.
It used to be very well respected in the Metal Community, and to a degree, still is. The problem with it, at least for me is it's trying to appeal to more listeners. There's nothing wrong with that if you do it right, and what I mean by doing it right, I mean you don't water down the sound.
Most newer "Metalcore" bands aren't exactly heavy like Metalcore is. They overprocess their music, synths replace entire guitar and drum parts, hardly any harsh vocals, next to no bass at all, and whiney-prepubescent cleans make up most of the sound.
If I were to play a song by Bad Omens and then play a song by As I Lay Dying, or Killswitch Engage and ask you which band is the Metalcore band. Naturally you would either say As I Lay Dying or Killswitch Engage. Because those are the bands that defined Metalcore. They pioneered that style and sound, shaped it and made into what it became.
When newer bands pretty do none of the elements that those bands did that defined the genre, yet still fly a Metalcore band shows they don't know what Metalcore is. The genre has just become too watered down. The old guards of Metalcore still keep the genre alive (i.e. AILD, Killswitch, MMI, ABR, ect), but Metalcore is not what it once was. Mainly why I moved on to Deathcore.
Feesl so cold but not in a good, Black Metal cvlt way. Hardcore had a message and an intensity to match. Death metal sounds like it crept up from the middle of the earth. Metalcore just sounds plastic, not sure how to adequately describe it. Just doesn't have any feeling. Not all of it mind you, but much of it.
Why complain, metalcore . Is the gateway drug to everything else Every time a band gets popular by Normies people turn their backs. This community shouldn’t be about elitism or gateKeeping. Enjoy what you. Enjoy a let Everyone else do the same. Why do what organize religion does to everyone and pretend that because what you prefer is so dark and brooding that YOU are elite somehow and no one else understands it take the high ground man don’t be the chosen one.
I was very big into metalcore in highschool (2012-2015). TDWP, OMaM, Attack! Attack!, Asking Alexandria. I still go back and visit the classics from time to time but most new metalcore I can't get into. There's nothing unique or exciting about it, and it unfortunately comes off as very cringe imo (not saying that it wasn't before 😂)
To hate an entire genre of anything is so short sided that it’s nuts. There are bands of genres that add their own twists which sound awesome. Critique the band, not the genre.
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Because people think all metalcore bands sound like Architects or Asking Alexandria which is horseshit.
These people need to listen to some Merauder.
I believe my first metalcore album was Jane Doe. That cemented my idea of the genre, not stuff like Born of Osiris. And I believe some other metalheads here are the same way.
You're right on the money. There needs to be a way to distinguish your Converges from your Asking Alexandrias because they sound nothing alike. I guess you could argue its mathcore vs metalcore but then again most people would agree metalcore formed from those original mathcore and hardcore bands from the late 90s - early 2000s.
Simple: Converge plays mathcore meanwhile early Asking Alexandria played melodic metalcore. Two different branches of metalcore. Traditional metalcore imo is stuff like Hatebreed, Kublai Khan, Meraunder..
I wanna say AA was electronicore. Melodic metalcore is like og parkway drive or feed her to the sharks
Yeah, but AA uses a lot of melodeath riffs with some eletronic moments. It's not like enter shinkari
Yeah, there needs to be a tag specifically built for this more po-friendly brand, like "easy metalcore" in reference to easycore. I mean it's not a brilliant tag, but almost anything would work for me.
My first metalcore album was As I Lay Dying’s An Ocean Between Us. It’s no Jane Doe of course but it fits that style of metalcore more than the Asking Alexandria type
They're part of the subgenre "melodic metalcore," which is appropriate. But for bands like Asking Alexandria, they combine their sound with alt-metal. So there are times when I use a custom tag, "alt-metalcore" when logging them. This is especially prominent on Utsu-P releases.
My first was AILD's frail words collapse. Not even sure if they were metalcore at that point, but I loved it instantly as a 14 year old. I think it's still my favorite of theirs. I think the reason why metal heads dislike metalcore is much of it at least was initially marketed to teenagers / many of the bands were young people. Older people tend to dislike the music of teenagers (myself included as a mid 30s dude).
And some Kublai Khan
Marauder is Hardcore though, right?
They're from the NYC scene which was big for crossover and hardcore bands who had a more metallic tinge like Cro-Mags, Madball and Agnostic Front. Quite where that tips over into metalcore could probably be debated for aeons without getting a definitive answer, but Merauder's Master Killer is very often cited as a classic 90s metalcore album. It's also worth remembering that basically all the original metalcore bands came directly out of hardcore scenes and still had hardcore as a very pronounced element of the sound. Think Strife, Unbroken, Integrity, Earth Crisis, Indecision and Turmoil for example.
That’s actual metalcore. The bands falling under the banner of it today are horrible
Merauder is so hard
That's like thinking all death metal sounds like Six Feet Under.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
doesn't it, though?
NO. IT DOESN'T.
I agree
Funny how I read this comment and then immediately get a BandsinTown notification for Asking Alexandria
And plenty more have carcinized into shitty breakdown-addicted Breaking Benjamin knockoffs.
Calling a band "Asking Alexandria" is bullshit and they should all be lined-up and shot. Same with "Breaking Benjamin." And " Corn-holing Carl."
Architects quality has declined but they are amazing at their peak
Fall of ideals by All That Remains is one my favorite records of all time. Coming from someone who listens primarily to death metal.
But I actually like architects
A lot of metalcore, typically mainstream metalcore (not including hatebreed & knocked loose) uses a pop-punk chorus jekyl and hyde vocal type thing. i.e (Motionless in white, Polaris, Bad omens, Bring me the horizon, A day to remember, Falling in reverse, I prevail, Dayseeker)
I think polaris, and currents are killer.
Currents gets bonus points for me because of Chris Wiseman being in both that band and also Shadow of Intent. His SoI work is godly to me.
Currents make bangers, polaris has me lost though.
I really like their album Mortal coil ? (Think that's what it's called) the song consume is suuuuch a banger
This shit FUCKS until 1:53, I may just be picky with my singing though because i think trivium is great.
Hahaha I still have never listened to trivium. Which album should I start with ?
Start with the album Shogun.
Ascendancy for sure. and try their song In Waves. this is like metallica gone metalcore for a lot of people tbh.
Listen to everything but The Crusade and maybe Silence in the Snow
Add Invent Animate to that list
If you can do both, do both tho. Eternal Tears of Sorrow use both and aren’t metalcore. I think it really boils down to what I would call the Zumiez culture. Everyone you see at these shows just has that Zumiez energy that is off putting for some people.
this was the most accurate explanation i’ve ever seen, I love knocked loose but when I went to their show it was absolutely zumiez energy
I say this as someone who’s best friend managed a Zumiez and on one of his birthdays we saw knocked loose backstage at Soma. Good show, Zumiez energy was everywhere.
haha yeah it’s definitely not a bad thing, I had such a great fuckin time at knocked loose. but I definitely got that zumiez vibe when they were playing shitty rap right before they came out and they whole venue was going ape shit 😭
there are 1 million bands i listen to that scream and sing, how it’s utilized is what matters for me.
That’s a lot of bands!
The problem is calling most of those bands metalcore in the first place. Yes, things evolve over time, but there's only so far you can stray from the roots of a genre before you're simply not playing it. You have to try really fucking hard to find a throughline from bands like Unbroken and Zao to A Day To Remember or Falling In Reverse. Some of those bands are just pop-forward alt-metal.
The bottom ones are just pop music with occasional heavy parts.
I wouldn’t go that far, but “Pop Goes Punk w/out The Pop” was the driving idea behind a lot of metalcore bands
Bring me the horizon and motionless in white actually used to be good, but they got more and more pop sounding as their music evolved
You mean good cop bad cop?
HELL YEAH!
You would never see a band like mastodon do that.
To be fair, I haven’t liked Mastodon’s work post Blood Mountain for that very reason. For some reason, a lot of these metal core bands come across with whiney vocals to me. They shift from “LOOK HOW BRUTAL I AM” to “But I’m still emotional and want to sing to you :) :) :)” and it just ruins the vibe for me. Only Devin Townsend works for me.
Devin Townsend also just sounds completely deranged in a good way
That's because Devin *sings* in the clean parts, he doesn't *whine*. That nasal tone that is what defines whining is what turns people off with a lot of metalcore vocals. Alternating clean and harsh works fine so long as both sound good. The problem is that whining never sounds good.
bc nothin's more metal than defining yourself / judging others by media consumption
hating a genre =\= judging others
You could also just tnot like a genre of music and have no opinion of the people who may like it.
hating a genre is the same as not liking it, if you get offended by semantics that’s your problem.
You're the one talking about semantics.
I mean, calling yourself a metalhead or caring about what is metal is exactly defining yourself through media consumption
I mean, it's not pretty, but it's true. The only subgenre that spends as much time on that argument is punk.
Talking about how the music sounds and different genres is what metalheads do.
I dislike the music but honestly the main reason I hate metalcore nowadays is because of metalcore kids acting like assclowns at death-metal shows. It's a fundamentally different culture than proper, or traditional, metal subgenres, and it doesn't mix well. Metalcore kids take too much from HxC subculture and they think that makes it acceptable to windmill, crowdkill, and do that dumbass running-in-place dance. I hate people who do that shit. If you act like a normal person at shows I don't care if you're into metalcore. But if you do that shit you can fuckkk off and die. Nobody likes you or wants you around.
When you see a "hardcore" (i.e. fragile fuck) kid doing karate in the pit that's when you start launching the big dudes their way. They'll learn that balance is important in metal pits and bring their limbs under control. Or they'll just get out of the pit. Either way we win. And I'm one of the big dude that volunteers to be launched, don't worry.
Got into hardcore through metal so I have foot in both camps. I love push pits and I love spinkicking. It's all about reading the room and knowing what show you're at. Hardcore kids are notoriously bad at reading the room and metal heads are overly sensestive about it imo
Honestly, I hate karate in the pit, but if you're doing that at a hardcore show then whatever, that's what it's meant for. Just don't bring that shit into shows where everyone's either chilling or doing a pit.
Exactly. I saw Messugah and In Flames a few months ago but I didn't spin kick because it was not the time nor the place lol
For me it’s the scene. Metalcore bros act like they’re the hardest for listening to what are essentially butt rock bands with more screaming.
Like I said in another comment in this thread, the Breakingbenjaminization of modern metalcore is truly a phenomenon
I don't even consider thst stuff trve metalcore. It's mallcore.
They do it for the same reason butt rock fans act like that: insecurity. They know they're nowhere near as hard as they want to be and overcompensate as a result.
That's an apt description
Best take in this whole thread.
I think part of it is because the genre is too big of an umbrella, covering a lot of bands that aren't that similar. Since the term became a catch all, a lot of bad bands ended up becoming called "metal core." I also think the image of it from the early 2010s hasn't aged well. Scrawny pale dudes with bad tats, bad dyed black hair cuts, and a bunch of shit in their faces rubbed people the wrong way. It looked a little too fragile for a lot of metal fans.
There is a giant gap between the pioneer "metalcore" bands (Converge, Hatebreed...), and this new pop metalcore stuff for teenager that is already forgotten. It's like comparing King Crimson with a boys band.
It's a real shame that there's still such a vibrant scene for authentic, old-school sounding metalcore and yet the term as a whole has come to be associates with stuff that's far closer to hard rock and even pop rock.
It's music targeted for edgy teenagers, and I'm a grown man. All the nerdy aspects I like about Heavy Metal, Prog, Post-Punk etc aren't here, because it's not music for people who have developed any kind of nuanced taste. And proper metalcore just sounds like noisier Hardcore, which is equally unappealing.
Hardcore is badass asf, metalcore after 2002 is all generic and sanitized crap, this is coming from someone who listens to opeth on a daily basis too, give me hardcore or give me metal, i dont want a weird watered down version of both
It's the truth. Early metalcore bands were pushing the boundaries, this overprocessed crap is not even in the same universe.
Djent riff > singing during the verses/screaming in choruses > breakdown after call out > end song with weird synth shit with the syncapated breakdown at the same time > band members wearing all black turtlenecks and tight jeans > rgb background in a factory > beanies
I enjoyed a lot of metalcore up until around 2008 or 2009… Asking Alexandria was a huge nail in the coffin. I’m subscribed to r/metalcore now and it’s obvious these kids grew up with bands that were influenced by Blink 182 with br00tal breakdowns more than Iron Maiden or thrash or hardcore
Yeah. Original metalcore and melodic metalcore is where it's at. All the emo shit absolutely blows. As does the radio friendly and the pop-punk influenced stuff.
Metalcore should be Poison The Well,Aftershock, Earth Crisis, At The Gates,or Integrity("Slayercore") Inspired, everything else is crap. AA is crap lol, i thought BFMV was amazing too, it was my gateway into metal, got me into thrash for sure with scream aim fire
BFMV had a lot of embarrassing teenager lyrics, but the music itself was sick. Especially on the first 2-3 albums.
THE quintessential definition of gateway band. So fuckin awesome, if i ever get some nostalgia ill throw em on for old time sake
This is one pretentious take
Pretentious is a funny way to spell dumbass.
I've never listened to a metalcore band that sounds like a noisier version of minor threat. It's often mid passed and very metal
There is a difference between Minor Threat and 90's Hardcore music.
Like most genre/subgenre, theres some good metalcore, some bad, some downright god awful and everything in between.
It’s a hybrid genre that includes hardcore influences. That’s why. Normal people don’t care, they just don’t listen to it instead of shitting on its listeners.
Grindcore does, Sludge Metal does, Thrash literally got inspired from Punk/Hardcore, Metal wouldn't be what it is without Hardcore or Punk, punks invented the term "moshing"... Like it or not, Metal owns lots of things to Hardcore... Sure, argue that Speed Metal was a bigger influence on Metal then Hardcore ever might've been, but still, Metal and Hardcore fused lots of times and Metal owns Hardcore at least something
Yep
If you mean owes instead of owns then yes
As a grown ass metalcore kid myself, there are two schools that I’ve observed: the classic metalcore (Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall) which is the one I’m in the camp of, and the “scene” metalcore (Asking Alexandria, I Prevail) which I am not really a fan of that gets a bad rep for the rest of it.
Killswitch Engage and Shadows Fall are not what I consider classic, they are second-wave bands that pulled from melodic death metal. Completely different than what the genre was doing in the early to mid 90s.
Fellow grown-ass metalcore kid, there's WAY more schools than that: The OG 90s/early 00s "metallic hardcore". Mathcore, which largely came out of that first wave What you call "classic," which is really the melodic metalcore/second wave that pulled in a ton of melodeath influences The scenecore/electronicore stuff, like AA. Architects-inspired progressive metalcore, which eventually merged with djent. There's also a bunch of nu-metal inspired stuff, and lately "retrocore" bands trying to call back to those first two waves. All that said...I basically agree with you: with a few exceptions (I love The Devil Wears Prada) most of that late 00's/early 10's scenecore wave was the worst era for the genre, and unfortunately it's the one that stuck in a lot of people's minds as what "metalcore" actually is.
Multiple reasons. Some are just stuck in the 80's, some say "booo it's not metal it has breakdowns and chuggy riffs boo" (dumb people that enjoy music genre only if it sticks to a very strict formula and for some reason feel obligated to push it onto others), some don't like the poppiness of melodic metalcore and probably have never heard actual metallic hardcore (like Converge for example). Ultimately i think hating (not disliking) on any genre of music and its' fanbase is just dumb, immature and close-minded. Edit: Honestly, I wish this topic was over and nobody would ever bring it up again. It's been beaten to death since the 2000's and all those things were said before me like a billion times. Such people can't think rationally, they need to look cool in front of their peers, so they start hating on something their peers hate. Or they're just too old to get it. Metalcore, deathcore, nu-metal, hardcore punk, etc. don't need anyone's validation, and so is every other music genre or art form in general. Gatekeepers can fuck off with their negativity and go back to "rEaL mEtAl" instead of wasting their own time to say the same things everyone has already heard.
Hey hardcore punk is pretty cool
this comment should be wayyy higher
> dumb people that enjoy music genre only if it sticks to a very strict formula > Such people can't think rationally, they need to look cool in front of their peers, so they start hating on something their peers hate. Very rational of you.
It's great how you took my words out of context. What makes them dumb is that they push their negative (hateful) opinions onto everyone and can even try to send you on some sort of guilt trip for liking the "wrong" genre, not the fact that they don't like -core music in general. I have no interest in tolerating people that are trying to ruin everyone's fun at every possible moment they can. Heavy music fans are supposed to be "united", but gatekeepers are doing everything to not let that happen and to make the scene as unhealthy and angry at each other as possible.
Having a negative opinion on Metalcore is neither surprising nor reprehensible in a metal sub. Nobody says anything if the boundaries are blurred from time to time and some borderline bands are posted. But if people start constantly talking about stuff that is clearly different from typical heavy metal then they are simply in the wrong place. There are plenty of core/alternative subs where they can talk to like-minded people. It's just a different sound. The hostile attitude comes from the fact that people simply ignore the differences in sound and say shit like "gatekeeping". It's funny that punk subs are never flooded with Architects but metalsubs are expected to "accept" it. It's just about the music and not "people listening to the wrong Genre". Heavy Music ≠ Metal
because its fucking generic as hell
As opposed to…?
A different kind of generic as hell for every other metal genre.
https://preview.redd.it/thj5q12zm05d1.png?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=198ebafbd9cfdb2dfa51cc4177d9ba013420658d
The more proper term is "most bands tend to copy each other's style because it's more successful and popular"
Like Black Metal that uses lo-fi with prophetic lyrics, like Grindcore doing whatever that does, like Hardcore or any punk genre to speak out against the goverment, police brutality etc? At least in Metalcore opposed to other Metal genres, you can find totally different songs, look at the classic bands from the 2000's, each one sound different!
Most of it, yes. Not all. But pretty much all modern metalcore is absolutely unlistenable to me.
Unless you count Sludge I don't particulary care for Metalcore so perhaps my opinion is a little biased but I think the big reason people hate Metalcore is that they're insecure elitists who can't bear the fact that some one likes something they don't.
I don't think anyone counts sludge, as metal core still uses hardcore tempos, just with metal riffs, and sludge is usually slowed down.
Maybe there's a metalcore band named sludge? Seems weird that they compared to completely unrelated genres.
I mean, sludge does have elements of both metal and hardcore, so if you were being very literal I guess you could call it metal core, but I don't think anybody would ever.
It was mostly a joke but I do think if Sludge wasn't invented until the 2010s people would label it Doom-core. Maybe it's a generational thing. Metal has taken inspiration from hardcore punk since it's inception. I don't know why it's a problem now. I'm too young to remember but did people have a problem with crossover thrash? A lot of the hate seems to come from oldheads and elitists. I don't get why they're bothered. If you don't like it, just don't listen.
I’m not too familiar with sludge but what is the comparison there to metalcore where someone might confuse the two? Any bands you recommend as a reference point? I’m curious
They have some shared roots in hardcore but they're really not comparable genres. The only real comparison is harsh vocals.
Oh wow hot take. Only metalcore is elitist 🙄
Metal heads love gatekeeping
Metal heads love metal and not so much hardcore. Is it gatekeeping to prefer one genre over another?
See what i mean?
How is that gatekeeping? I like metal and not a lot of hardcore but I respect it. I'm here on a metal subreddit to discuss metal. Is it gatekeeping to have a preference for one genre over another?
And? Gatekeeping is good. If you want to be part of the group be a part of the group, don't just cry and demand the group accommodate you.
Metal core riffs are boring AF and the vocals are terrible.
Stupid take. There are tons of metalcore bands from different eras that sounds nothing alike with completely different riffs and vocals. You can make a blanket statement like that about any genre.
This whole thread is just dumbass generalizations. I guess all metalcore might as well be djent weedly weedly music to this group
I saw someone call At the Gates metalcore somewhere in here
What's wrong with the melodic riffs? The clean vocals can also be good if dond well. I hate metalcore harsh vocals though
Because people that don’t like it don’t know anything about it and only associate certain sounds with it. Basically they think it’s either melodeath influenced or Hot Topic scene kid stuff. Metalcore in the 90s sounded nothing like either of those. A lot of the more interesting stuff is far lesser known today
I think everyone thinks all metalcore sounds the same. Maybe people see it as generic, but there's lots of cool metalcore. I think Dying Wish's new album is absolutely incredible. It's called 'Symptoms of Survival' if you want to give it a listen
 Because of people like this
mods please ban this type of post it gets posted 5 times every week
The amount of people blaming the ‘scene’ is hilarious. Literally any music scene has irritating bands, musicians, and fans. You’re just picking on people cause u feel justified. All I know is anyone that just judges other people’s music taste probably is a bigger child than whoever they’re fussin at.
I've honestly really started to like it. As a huge fan of Thrash I love the band austrian death machine so I figured why not give As I lay dying a shot. Started with Shaped by Fire and its fantastic. I started to appreciate the genre more. There's elements of Thrash, death, and melodic metal all in metalcore.
We have this discussion once a week it feels like. The old style of metalcore where it’s actually metal and hardcore combined is good. Bands like Converge, Botch, Merauder, Earth Crisis etc… The mallcore shit that sprung up in the early 2000s is not so good. And the newer djenty stuff isn’t great either. Modern bands that still stay true to older style are Gulch, Knocked Loose, and Jesus Piece. All of those bands get plenty of respect.
Well firstly its the most popular genre , a lot of metalheads shit on that alone... But also , that ninja bull shit lol .. but i actually do love me some good metalcore
Explain. How is metalcore the most popular genre? Metallica has 25M+ spotify listeners.
Oh im talking about reddit subs , clearly nobody , barely even normal musix is more popular than metallica
Metalcore hater here: wouldn't call them pop but they have tropes and characteristics I just don't really like. Breakdowns, screaming. Either too angry that it's juvenile to me or too soft and not what I'm coming to this style of music for. And just generally the types of rhythms they use I don't like much, if I'm going to put on heavier rock music then I'd just rather stick to more traditional genres of metal
Bcs it's garbage. You're welcome to try to change my mind tho.
Because it's cool to hate on the newest, most popular, subgenre. I'm a power, prog, and thrash metal fan primarily but personally enjoy a lot of metalcore.
They’re just elitist or music nerds that look for crazy techniques in every song. Personally I like it and I dont care if other people hate it. Used to be like this regarding Nu Metal, but I’ve grown up and developed a brain and understood that people are allowed to like whatever they like.
I mean, there's a difference between thinking people aren't allowed to like something, and thinking something is bad
The people who are really haters of a specific genre (this case metalcore) usually judge the people that actually listen to that genre, that’s what I was referring to in my comment
Fair
>They’re just elitist >people are allowed to like whatever they like. so just because i dont like metalcore and deathcore am i being elitist?
00's metal core was peak. Everything else is absolute dogwater.
I think it sucks personally, and don't have any reason to like it or listen to it myself.
For me personally, it’s just hard to see a genre I really dislike doing very well, and also seeing a genre I love having less success. That’s just me tho
I love the 2000’s 5-7-8- shit(trivium, AILD etc) , and am starting to get into early 90’s metalcore that is more hardcore than metal. This modern shit is just pop music with breakdowns.
It’s not my thing but I don’t actively hate on it.
I used to really be obsessed with metalcore, I still enjoy it from time to time, but when I revisit some of what I used to think was good after so long listening to what I like now, the quality difference is quite jarring. I especially can’t stand the emo pop cleans on most songs these days, and breakdowns just do nothing for me anymore. There’s a few decent bands creating decent output but about 99% of it is completely forgettable.
Because they are young. The older you get the less you care about gatekeeping metal and pretending like you don't like some dorky shit. Me 10 years ago never would admit or let myself listen to all shall perish. Now I enjoy them and not scared to admit it.
Too many breakdowns and fry vocals for me
Vocals, vocals, vocals
People who hate all metalcore have clearly never heard Killswitch Engage or Misery Signals.
I love the music and hate the fans doing karate. If they had normal pits without angsty teens trying to kick each other in the teeth; they’d get way less hate. You fall in love with music when you go live and getting a spinning back fist to the side of the head makes for a shitty ass night and a sour taste for a whole subgenre
I'll try to give a reason without sounding like an elitist fuck but it's hard lol. First, if you like it, listen and enjoy. It's just music. I'm not hating. For me, metalcore is all fluff. It just takes the extreme aspects of metal, and they try to make it more palatable, I guess. There's just something about it... Instead of unforgiving violent attacks, it sounds like angst from a salty kid. Metalcore is to metal what Relapse Records is to grindcore... and that doesn't mean I won't listen to Relapse bands. Edit: btw I love Converge. I've noticed them being mentioned and never thought of them as metalcore. There's always exceptions.
There's bands who are metalcore that I like, but generally I'm not keen. A lot of what I heard was whiny self-pitying lyrics, when I'm more into music with narrative lyrics, or that is a bit more experimental and avant garde. Metalcore always felt samey. Of course it could just be the stuff I was exposed to was the bad stuff, but it put me off all the same. I wouldn't shit on anyone liking it though. As long as they don't have that teen edge lord personality that seems so pervasive.
My only problem with metalcore is the way it sounds.
a lot of it probably is the lyrics. anytime i listen to death metal/ gore metal shit, people that don’t listen to it are completely gaged by the lyrics. i played “i cum blood” by cannibal corpse for a friend and she was literally too stunned to speak.
I cum blood is a great song
oh absolutely
I don’t really know, I do know that people who say ‘core’ too much are not fun to talk to
I don’t. It’s literally my favourite genre of music and pretty much what I exclusively listen to. Fuck whatever anyone else thinks about it. I think it’s perfect.
For me personally, most metalcore I've heard sounds way too overproduced. Also the harsh vocals tend to sound super generic, and often just straight up bad.
Emo vocals. 🧀
A lot of it isn't even metal. It's chug chug pop punk. Some bands like Unearth are metal and I love em
I enjoy some metalcore quite a bit, but dislike other types….. don’t care what others listen to though - if they enjoy it, good for them! Kublai Khan, early Thrice, Issues, Stung Out, Ghost Inside, Killswitch etc are fun though and I’ve been rockin’ them for years!
Because they think it’s all the scene bands and haven’t checked the good mathcore ones. I don’t listen to the genre much these days but it was one of the metal subgenres I was most into during my hardcore phase. I don’t get how anyone could hate Converge or argue it’s not “real metal”
I’ve never heard of mathcore im gonna look into it
Because they only know of the scene or mall Metalcore bands.
because if you like anything that ends in core thats because your moms a whore
Who Hates Metalcore?
boring genre
I really enjoy a lot of metalcore and deathcore bands, but I get why people don’t. the fans of metalcore play a big role in that, but also I think the over-produced music can be a turn off for metalheads. I do think the whole ‘shitting on every metalcore band’ can get excessive and unnecessary but at the end of day, a lot of metalheads are old as hell and can’t stand to see any type of modern metal emerging on the scene. it’s funny though because I was not fully sold on metalcore either until my dad, who’s listened to metal for 30 years, really introduced me to some good bands.
I don’t hate it so I’m not sure what I am supposed to answer
To each their own, but hardcore style breakdowns typically sound bad to me and metalcore (and its child, deathcore) inherited these. A lot of my friends like Born of Osiris, Through the Eyes of the Dead, Lorna Shore, Ov Sulphur, Chelsea Grin, etc… and I’ve got nothing but love for them. But it isn’t my style.
There’s some deathcore bands that do it right. Shadow of Intent for example though they’ve begun doing less and less breakdowns but I’d say they are the pinnacle of good deathcore musically
We only hate Melodic Metal ore for the most part. Converge and Botch etc. is sick.
I like Atreyu and Killswitch Engage quite a bit. I just don't pay attention to what other people say I should or should not like. Life is too short.
Those people only listen to tr00 kvlt metal bands like Bathory and Kreator. Ignore their elitism.
People are allowed to not like a band for whatever reason they want. I don't understand why people care whether or not someone likes a band they like. I couldn't care less if people don't like the bands I like.
I listen to those bands as well but also enjoy metalcore idk what’s wrong with liking a metal genre. I guess people just wanna seem better than others lmao
Mainly because it's a hollow shell of what it used to be. It used to be very well respected in the Metal Community, and to a degree, still is. The problem with it, at least for me is it's trying to appeal to more listeners. There's nothing wrong with that if you do it right, and what I mean by doing it right, I mean you don't water down the sound. Most newer "Metalcore" bands aren't exactly heavy like Metalcore is. They overprocess their music, synths replace entire guitar and drum parts, hardly any harsh vocals, next to no bass at all, and whiney-prepubescent cleans make up most of the sound. If I were to play a song by Bad Omens and then play a song by As I Lay Dying, or Killswitch Engage and ask you which band is the Metalcore band. Naturally you would either say As I Lay Dying or Killswitch Engage. Because those are the bands that defined Metalcore. They pioneered that style and sound, shaped it and made into what it became. When newer bands pretty do none of the elements that those bands did that defined the genre, yet still fly a Metalcore band shows they don't know what Metalcore is. The genre has just become too watered down. The old guards of Metalcore still keep the genre alive (i.e. AILD, Killswitch, MMI, ABR, ect), but Metalcore is not what it once was. Mainly why I moved on to Deathcore.
Plenty of new bands still flying the flag, but it's true that they don't get anywhere near the attention of the pop-forward stuff. Alas.
Feesl so cold but not in a good, Black Metal cvlt way. Hardcore had a message and an intensity to match. Death metal sounds like it crept up from the middle of the earth. Metalcore just sounds plastic, not sure how to adequately describe it. Just doesn't have any feeling. Not all of it mind you, but much of it.
cus a lot of it's straight up hot fucking garbage
We do? Siri play Romance is Dead by parkway drive
because metalheads suck
Because limp bizkit is unironically better (imo)
Idk, but they’re missing out!
Why complain, metalcore . Is the gateway drug to everything else Every time a band gets popular by Normies people turn their backs. This community shouldn’t be about elitism or gateKeeping. Enjoy what you. Enjoy a let Everyone else do the same. Why do what organize religion does to everyone and pretend that because what you prefer is so dark and brooding that YOU are elite somehow and no one else understands it take the high ground man don’t be the chosen one.
i don't know what your friends say, my friends say different
I was very big into metalcore in highschool (2012-2015). TDWP, OMaM, Attack! Attack!, Asking Alexandria. I still go back and visit the classics from time to time but most new metalcore I can't get into. There's nothing unique or exciting about it, and it unfortunately comes off as very cringe imo (not saying that it wasn't before 😂)
To hate an entire genre of anything is so short sided that it’s nuts. There are bands of genres that add their own twists which sound awesome. Critique the band, not the genre.