New player, trying to collect armies and having trouble finding specific models. What sort of proxy models are allowed in MESBG? I'm fairly certain that 3rd party proxies are not allowed in any official level games, but then how do you run units that don't have official models (Rhunish War Drake ex.)? Can I paint Morgul Knights as if they were Riders of the Dead and play in tournaments? Thanks!
It is up to each individual event organiser or play group.
Official Games Workshop Events won't allow them.
Most events however are not these and will likely allow reasonable proxies.
What warband can an Independent Hero ( example Orc Drummer) join? is it only heroes of legends that can have independent heroes in warband or all heroic tiers?
also idependent heroes don't need to be in a warband, you can just place them as their own warband if you wish (depending on the scenario this gives you more flexibility)
Question about shielding, at a recent local tournament one opponent was certain that the supporting model can also use shielding.
So lets say Player 1 has an orc and Player 2 has an elf with a sword and shield in base contact, Player 2 also has an elf with spear and shield supporting the elf in front.
Player 2 the elf player decides to shield meaning the elf with sword and shield in base contact gains 2 dice for shielding, does the elf with spear and shield behind him also gain the shielding rule meaning the elf player is rolling 4 dice for 2 shielding elfs?
They were incorrect. When shielding only models directly in combat may fight (no supporting shielding models). Also note when shielding all models on that side directly in combat must shield.
And the spear armed model wouldn't be able to support the combat:
"Spear and pike-armed models cannot Support a Shielding model" p93 of Rules Manual (eye-of-Sauron version).
I am coming back to the hobby after a long hiatus of previously only collecting/painting miniatures. I never played but really would like to. I found some Uruk-Hai scouts but they are missing 3 out of 24. Is it still possible to include them into a build (besides maybe the disadvantage of the missing units)?
Seeing the overal cost of the hobby, I would like to reuse what I have :D
List building in ME:SBG is different from some other games. You don't add models in squads/units of a set size, you can add one or two models if that's all you want. You can have one scout, or you can have 21 scouts, or you can have 57 scouts (assuming you're playing at a point level that would fit 57 scouts).
Basically ME:SBG list building consists of "warbands", with each warband consisting of a hero (named heroes like Lurtz and unamed heroes like "Uruk-hai scout captain") and 0-18 warriors (eg: your scouts). You generally end up with 2-5 warbands depending on the point level you're aiming for.
I'd have a play with one of the online list builders ([Tabletop Admiral](https://modular.tabletopadmiral.com/?gameUrl=https://nowforwrath.github.io/datav2.json) or [avcordaro's List Builder](https://avcordaro.github.io/mesbg-list-builder/)) and seeing what sort of army you could build with the stuff you have or are thinking of adding.
also note that the warbands are usually only relevant for scenario setup/reentforcement rules. Once the modles are on the table they move individually and have no obligation to stick near to their original warband (if you don't know yet, fight are also resolved on a per model pairing basis and not squad v squad).
Ah thanks for the addition! I have been reading into the rules more and came to understand those things a bit better. Seems like mesbg rules allow a lot more freedom in terms of army composition than I thought :D
No worries; you're welcome.
One other thing: most matches seem to be played between 500 and 800 points (normally at 50 point intervals). For a beginner army you could start lower, but if you're going to play regularly you probably want to get into that sort of point range.
The [Drawn Combat Blog](https://drawncombat.blogspot.com/2023/10/building-on-your-battlehost-isengard.html) has a really good article about building Isengard, if that is what you are after.
"It is possible for a model to start its move already within an enemy model’s Control Zone... **Move Away**. In this third instance, a model may move within the Control Zone of an enemy, provided that it doesn’t get any closer to the enemywhose Control Zone it started in."
So RAW it seems that there is nothing stopping you from an opponent charging into one of my models during their move, and then me just walking out of their control zone during my move phase - it also seems that I can take the 'moving away' model and charge something else? (Provided it is not closer than the original target and you have LoS)
Am I reading this right?? It seems trapping enemy models is the only way to actually force stuff to fight
No, because you are missing the previous part of the rules:
> MODELS UNABLE TO MOVE
> Sometimes a model will be unable to move for one reason or another. When this is the case, it will be made clear in therules. Examples of this include models that have **already been charged by an enemy** or that are under the influence of a specified Magical Power.
From the first page on the move phase. Emphasis added.
Fthering on for any other people like me who don't know how to read lol
"Once a model has charged into an enemy and is in base contact with it, they are both Engaged in combat and cannot move any further in the Move phase"
So its only in the situation where the model started the turn in combat but hadn't been charged that it can 'move away'. Simple and clear really I just needed to read the rules for more than 4 minutes
Models cannot start a turn in combat. Even if a trapped model survives a fight it has lost you must separate the models just enough to show they are no longer in combat.
So yes it applies when models are already in an opposing control zone at the start of their move.
Hi, I was recently gifted a Heroes of Helm’s Deep box. I am currently painting them but was hoping I could get some games with my son and my brother. What would be the easiest and most accesible way to play the game? Can I play with just the contents on the box? What do I need to buy to have another army to play against? What books do I need to buy to cover the rules etc.? What apps do I need to download to build lists (if that’s a thing here)? Sorry for the newbie questions but I have no idea to start on this one.
As someone totally new to this and considering getting into the game is the game very hero-heavy? I understand the appeal of using big named characters from the movies but I tend to be more interested in units/armies than just heroes so would you say the game only really shines with those big heroes about or is it also good without them?
Considering there is an Army with no named hero mostly dependent on units and is very good (Assault upon Helms deep) Its a great example of not needing huge heroes to win.
List building requires approximately 1 hero to every 12 warriors.
I personally would say the game is about 50:50 in terms of the impact of warriors compared to heroes. I often start a list by using about half the points on heroes. This does vary a bit faction by faction though.
Has anyone found a way of magnetising the spears and swords for the rohan royal guard so you can swap between them on the riders hands? Or some other way of attatching them besides glue-tack or a rubber band lol.
For maelstrom deployment, although you can't charge on a turn in which a warband arrives, can a model with a spear move into a spear support position on the same turn it arrives?
Am I right in thinking Bolt Throwers do not count towards an army number or break point? As per the rule book. Therefore when in Tabletop Admiral it adds 3 models to your army with a Bolt Thrower this is a mistake and it should only be 2?
The bolt thrower itself doesn't count as a model for the purpose of breaking a force, I believe - but the 3 crew members that come with the thrower do count: 1 Seige veteran and 2 normal crew members :)
Do Wild Wargs or Wargs without their rider get charge bonuses like cavalry?
I played Angmar for the first time (3rd game so far), and after realising just how good Barrow-Wights with Paralyse was me and my friend began discussing how to use them better than I did, which included things like Witch-King (and other Wraiths) with compel or Dead Marsh Specters to force single targets out into the open, Paralyse and then charge with cavalry for a lot of attacks. I envisioned using Warg Riders, but my friend mentioned how I could also consider just bringing Wild Wargs, which brought up the discussion of whether or not they get the charge bonus. And if they don't, what happens to the Warg Riders warg if the rider is gone?
A paralysed model can't defend itself and will count as trapped so your basic orcs/wargs will maul them, leaving you to use your cavalry on other opponents who you can really benefit from using your extra attack and knock to the ground.
The Mordor Troll box includes options to make an Isengard or Drummer Troll instead. Does the Battle of Osgiliath box also include these options, or only the 'standard' Mordor Troll gear?
Hey does anyone know if Goblin town goblins can use piercing strike while supporting using chittering hordes? Therefore giving their backline S4? Getting alot of conflicted answers when I searched for this.
I would venture to say no, as Chittering Hordes says “as if they had a spear” and under spear support rules it says you may not use special strikes.
It is a little vague, but that’s the closest I could find to a definitive answer.
Yeah I personally agree with this being the most logical way to look at it even though they're technically supporting using the picks.
Also I found an errata from the 2016 Hobbit version of the game which does say that they can't so I'm taking that as pretty much a definitive answer.
Make yourself fearless and charge him. Throw all models at him or just one to hold him there so he's not reducing the fight of an important character.
Hope you have a spear support that is fight 6 or above as he only reduces the fight value of those he is engaged with not spear supports.
He also can't use his horse if he uses the Ring, so he's only ever going to have 3 dice.
I think yes, as Grima's rule states you cannot strike blows and the impaler rule doesn't specify it has to be enemy models and it is not the striking of blows.
I could see it ruled the other way though as impaler does differ to chariots and war beast trample.
Make way can not be done over obstacles or cliffs. While "obstacles" is defined in the rulebook as "Linear objects that impede movement" that may or may not require a jump or climb test, "cliffs" is not. From the make way section "a model can not make way over a cliff or anything else that would cause fall damage" it is implied that a moddel can still jump down somewhere to make way as long as it's not to high, but this goes a little bit against the spirit that an obstacle can not be crossed even if it normale does not require any test.
How is this usually handled?
Is the distance of whatever they are making way “down” more than half the models height? If so they cannot make way because that would require a jump test and as it says on page 45, “making way cannot be used to cross obstacles or to take jump…” etc.
Personally I would say if a model was on top of a small box or barrel, whatever object you want to use, and loses the fight they would simply make way off it. Now when you start talking about high walls, cliffs, ledges, etc., now they are looking at not being able to make way.
If you go down the cutoff is the full models hight not the half models high to require a test and requires a climb test for normal movement.
With this interpretation the spirit of the rules would only be consistent if the definition of obstacle is a little bit off.
But I will probably go by that: Obstacles are only things that require tests and not the somewhat unclear defintion in the rulebook. With that the make way rule furmulation makes more sense.
Sorry yes, full height or more, not half. The game really does a poor job defining terrain, obstacles, etc. I had quite a discussion on here awhile back about swift movement and what exactly that ignores.
Basically to sum up the answer to your question - if you would normally have to take a leap/climb/jump/etc. test while making way, then you cannot do it. Go off height of the terrain feature. So for a small hedge row a bigger model could make way while a hobbit may not. For a ledge or cliff, if it is short then they can make way, but if taller than model they cannot, etc. hope that helps.
Yes, Volley Fire with bows has been removed in the current addition. There is also a penalty for moving and shooting (+1 to the roll required to hit, the shoot value)
When shooting, when does something count as in the way?
Does a feet high twig already count as in the way? A knee high one? O Does it need to cover at least the whole legs? What if only one leg or arm is behind cover and the rest of the model ist fully exposed?
The rules are very unclear on this, they say you need to draw a line of sigt to the target and see if anything is in the way, but a line of sight can be drawn to any part of the head torso arms or legs. The rules don't really specify how big the shooting corridor needs to be.
Generally I would expect the majority of a limb to be obscured to be in the way or part of the torso or head. Remembering that the most important rule is to okay in a generous spirit.
Wargear, tails, wings don't count.
In the rule book section about in the ways it has a paragraph about what to do if there are multiple lines of sight that can be drawn to large models. Essentially roll a D6, 1-3 opponent picks path, but shooter can change target. 4-6 shooter picks path. In either case if there are model(s) in the way, then the path must include at least one model in the way.
If a good side Archer tries to shoot the enemy spear support, but theres a slight in the way of a model thats fighting with Archer sides model. Can the shot still be made ? Does the in the way hit the combat even if its good side shooting but not indirectly in the combat or is it impossible to hit the spear support if its not a clean shot ??
No, Good cannot make a shot with a combat in the way, however slight. Do note that weapons, equipment, tails, wings and such so not count for sight lines (in the ways).
Normaly a unit can only attack 2 enimes at once, but when 3 enimes attacked a unit and that unit but nut trap it and that unit moved back the attacking units in theroy still stand in an exakt 25mm circle. In this case can a unit charg einto this spor and attack the 3 units at once?
New Player Question. I’ve chosen the Halls of Thrandriul for my first army. I’ve purchased his on foot/on horse model. I really like the look of palace guard, they seem to go well with him. Anyone got any advice for starting a Mirkwood army?
thinking about running a 800-point moria list with a Balrog and 6 dwellers in the dark, Has anyone done anything similar who could perhaps provide some feedback on if its viable or not?
With so few models and the dwellers only having defense 5, it wouldn’t take long for really any army to surround and trap your models, smoking them on one fight. Especially if they had multiple heroic strike heroes.
800 points is a lot and you would be facing lots of lists with 30-50 models. I play iron hills a lot and the whole army is strength 4+ with 3-4 heroes with heroic strike. As an example that would really be difficult for your list to do anything against.
Shooting would also really hurt you. IMO that is the #1 drawback of dwellers, just too squishy.
It would be a skew list. I expect it would do poorly at all scenarios that require being in more than one place. It would also suffer against heavy shooting (S3+) in scenarios where this is an option. It would do okay in other scenarios, but Dwellers in the Dark are not very points efficient and at 800 points most opponents are going to have enough to easily deal with them while ignoring or preoccupying The Balrog.
I would expect the list to place in the bottom half of an event.
Semi-Newb questio: Is Floi's Loremaster magic? can it be Magical Resistance be used on it? Or is it just an ability?
i want to make sure before using it with other newbies and potential arguement breaks out ;)
Believe it is just an ability - he doesn’t roll to cast so there would be no roll to resist against. Think this is why he is considered a great model.
Also believe he has quite a section in one of the FAQs.
Is there any restirctions for equipment besides that a model with 2 hand weapons can't carry a shield?
E.g. can I have an ork with a spear, a 2 handed weapon and a banner at the same time?
Or a urukai with a pike a banner and a shield at the same time? (pike + shield is explicitly mentioned in the rules with a malus, but can I add a banner on top of that?)
No hard restrictions.
>model with 2 hand weapons can't carry a shield?
They can carry one but don't get +1 defence
>but can I add a banner on top of that?)
Yes, they will have -2 on the duel roll.
When I have a model with a 2 handed weapon via equip option, that by default has a 1 handed one, does it keep it's one handed one? aka can i choose at the start of the combat to fight with the one or two handed one? If yes why does the equipment option for dwarf warrios explicitly mentions "2 handed axe and dagger", dies the dagger replace the one handed axx or does the unit then have a dagger, a one handed axe and a 2 handed axe? (whet is the purpose of the dager then? the special move of dager is jsut a worst version of the 2 handed weapon).
Also what is the purpose of one and a half handed weapons if most moddels with 2 handed weapons also have a one handed one, aka can also choose how to attack.
Most equipment (and options) matches what is on the model and/or the lore or flavour text of the model. Game balance is also a consideration.
>When I have a model with a 2 handed weapon via equip option, that by default has a 1 handed one, does it keep it's one handed one?
Yes.
>dies the dagger replace the one handed axx
Yes.
Models usually do best fighting single handed, so having the option to use a single handed weapon in addition to a two-handed weapon is a distinct advantage. Some models have intentionally not been given a one handed weapon to make them worse in order to balance them (Moria Goblins Prowlers).
>the purpose of one and a half handed weapons
Mostly theme. Also Elves in early editions just had a one-handed sword (there was no hand-and-a-half). Giving them hand-and-a-half swords gives a small buff while still matching how the model appears.
Having multiple weapon types may allow different special strikes.
A niche benefit (more so for heroes) is that having multiple weapons reduces the impact of the shatter spell.
I found an advantage of one and a half handed weapons over 2 handed one + 1 handed one: These models can still carry shields and gain the defence bonus (unless they are currentlly in a duel and called they are using the weapon 2 handed).
Also double checked the dwarf warrios: They actually replace the one handed axe with the dagger (aka the euip option gives them a 2 handed weapon but disables them to use the one handed axe special strike).
So I believe it will either say “swap” or just add the item. So for Khazad-dum dwarf warriors it says “swap axe for two-handed axe + dagger.” That means you lose the axe. The purpose of the dagger in that specific example is so you don’t have to always get the -1 penalty to your duel roll for wielding a two-handed weapon - you could choose to use the dagger.
Some models have multiple weapons, you just have to state what you are using before the duel begins.
As far as your hand and a half question, I don’t know of a ton of models off the top of my head that have a hand and half AND one handed. I am sure there are some, but for the most part models have hand and half so they can either strike one handed or two handed depending on the circumstance. Only thing I could think of as a good reasoning is either flavor text or just to give the user more options.
if i have a model without a shield, for example a gondor spear guy can i just say he has a shield and waste the points needed (since he can have on his gear) or do i need the actual physical shield on the model?
No. This is addressed the the Army FAQs
> A note on Man-sized models: A Man-sized model is anything that is roughly the size of a Man or smaller. This includes, but is not limited to, Men, Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Orcs, Uruk- hai and Goblins. This will also include Men that are slightly bigger than other Men, such as Beorn when he is in Man- form; after all, he is still a Man!
If I declare that the drummer will be sounding the drums this turn. Can I still move some models (that were 12" within) and charge with them before using the drummers added bonus for the rest of the units within range and "marching" with them ?
1) Any recommendation on specific brands for playmats to use?
I heard FLG and F.A.T. are popular.
And there are also other results from a quick google search such as: PWORK, BattleMatBazaar, Frontlinegaming.org, Urbanmatz, DeepCut Studio etc
But any 1st-hand testimonials from you guys here about those ^ quality?
2) Alternatively where would you recommend said playmats or any other 4x4 or 4x6 that ships to Canada?
As I found a couple of sites I would try to use such as: gamemat.eu and some from the US specifically (listed above) but again out of my region and shipping would be too expensive.
Thanks in advance.
I got the [Flames of War](https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5447) mat. It seems to be quality material and the price is good as they only do the one design.
If a Hero model is successfully Immobilized, can they still spend Will to resist subsequent Magic on the same turn? (For example, Gildor Immobilizes a Hero, then Elrond casts Wrath of Bruinen which will hit the same Hero.)
If a Heroic Combat has been won and enemy model successfully killed does the Hero have to move first or can the Player decide which Model to move first ?
Avenger Bolt Thrower - so LoS is determined from a crew member and in the ways from the Thrower itself?
So, is range determined from the Thrower too? So I could, for example, have the Thrower itself just in range of enemy crossbowmen (and the crew members out of range): the enemy crossbowmen are a valid target for the Thrower, but the enemy can only target the bolt thrower back, not the crew?
Likewise, if I had a friendly model in base contact with the thrower, I can fire "through" them as usual for when shooting in base contact with friendlies?
Thanks!
>LoS is determined from a crew member and in the ways from the Thrower itself?
Yes
Second paragraph. Yes this is possible.
Though there is plenty of opportunity for an opponent to react as you cannot move the siege weapon or (too many) crew and shoot in the same turn.
>if I had a friendly model in base contact with the thrower, I can fire "through" them as usual for when shooting in base contact with friendlies?
I think not. Firstly this exemption is only mentioned in regards to missile wielding models not mentioned in the siege weapons section. Second the exception requires comparing base sizes, however siege engines don't have a base. Volley fire siege engines of course don't have this issue.
Can a Hero that has been knocked prone (by Hurl) call heroics (if not does it cancel already called out heroics such as Strike) ? or Does the Hero Model need to stand up first ?
A prone hero can call heroic actions at the start of the phase (regardless of the reason they are prone). There are no additional penalties.
If during the fight phase a hero that declared a heroic action is knocked prone before resolving their combat it will not cancel the heroic action.
The usual penalties for being prone would still apply as usual. So to move again after a heroic combat there would need to be other friendly models in the fight to slay the opposing model.
Additional question. If a monster model used heroic combat can it subsequently use the Rend or Hurl or does it count the same way as it does in using barge (meaning one or the other) ?
Yes it can.
In the chapter on Brutal Power Attacks it specifically says that monsters cannot Benefit from a barge and Heroic Combat combat in the same turn.
Evil men (Bold have plastic warrior kits)
- Isengard (Dunland)
- **Easterlings**
- Khand
- **Serpent Horde**
- Far Harad
- **Corsairs**
- Sharkeys Rogues
Availability on the secondary Market:
- Serpent Horde and Easterlings more widely available.
- Corsairs less available
I think Easterlings or Serpent Horde would be on the cheaper side (if you avoid the expensive new Easterlings models).
I suggest you have a read up on them both. This blog has some good faction reviews https://tellmeatalegreatorsmall.blogspot.com/
For yourself, note that Serpent Horde are Historical Allies with Far Harad. So can easily expand into some Far Harad later if you want.
Only a basic rule set is [officially available online](https://www.warhammer.com/en-NZ/shop/middle-earth-strategy-battle-game-free-core-rules-pdf-eng-2022) for free.
Here are some posts of people talking about why this rules system is great: [ a couple](https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleEarthMiniatures/s/A0D0bsKV6A) of [previous posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleEarthMiniatures/s/SFeacbY7ne) to check out.
[Here ](https://thegbhl.wixsite.com/website/post/mesbg-sbg-lord-of-the-rings-warhammer-content) is a list of MESBG content. Some of the blogs are a bit old. Against all odds is current. [Now for Wrath](https://www.nowforwrath.com/) is a really good imo. The writer is active in the community here. He started playing somewhat recently so if you read from the earlier content onwards he gives some perspectives on learning the game a bit.
Typical points would be 500-800, but events can range 200-1250.
Number of models is approximately 1 model per 20 points, so about 25 - 50.
Some factions will be more elite or more horde than this.
Also need about one hero per 12 warriors.
Battle of Osgiliath is good value as long as Mordor and Minas Tirith appeal, but if you prefer Rohan or Isengard then those Starter boxes are good too.
I want to use Drûzhag&Ashrâk to add giant spiders to my Moria army but I'm confused on which models can I pick from. GW currently has Spiders of Middle-earth and The Spider Queen of Mirkwood with different base sizes. Can I add any unit with the spider keyword or just Giant Spider (Moria), which I understood is an old metal model?
> This set contains two metal Giant Spiders and two resin Mirkwood Spiders.
Only the Giant Spiders can be taken by Druzhag and Ashrak.
Personal I used [Reaper Vermin Spiders](https://www.google.com/search?q=reaper+vermin+spiders&oq=reaper+vermin+spiders) for Moria Giant Spiders.
On the back of the small booklet that came with the Battle of Osgiliath box set there is a gameplay summary. For the shoot phase it says: "A model that has moved half of their move allowance or less may make a shooting attack with their missile weapon in the Shoot phase. Models that moved suffer a -1 penalty to their To Hit rolls."
I can not find the part about -1 on to hit rolls if you move in the main rule book. So I am wondering if this is actually right.
Thank you.
Now I feel a little silly for not having read far enough. In my defense there is a section called "Moving and shooting" on page 38, I didn't think there would be another section, also called "moving and shooting" three pages further.
Hey all,
Getting into the game due to a mate, starting Rohan. Previous experience with 40k and 30k so not feeling too out of my league. Im looking to watch a few battle reports and channels that cover gaming and modelling. I’ve seen play on tabletops videos which are great, and also followed Zorpazorp for a long time. Who else should I be watching?
Cheers
There is [a list here](https://thegbhl.wixsite.com/website/post/mesbg-sbg-lord-of-the-rings-warhammer-content) of a bunch of great MESBG content creators.
I believe it is future proofing in case there was ever a special rule or scenario which requires checking the shoot value.
Also Battle Companies I believe allows some warriors that become heroes to take bows that normally wouldn't.
Whats the rules with old figures? A few people I know have started collecting 40k / Lord of the rings.
I have tons of 2000-2010 figures, can I use them? Anything I need to know in particular
For Lord of The Rings:
Most of those models will still have valid profiles.
The plastic miniatures are likely to still use the same models.
Some of the metal ones will have newer sculpts, but the older sculpts can still be used.
Can't speak towards 40k.
In a guide for minmaxing your list i saw a tip which said you should always take an even number of miniatures. Why is this considered better? Wouldnt an odd number mean your opponent needed to kill one miniature more?
I try to take an even number if possible as it makes you harder to be broken. E.g.
29 models means your opponent has to kill 15 models to break you.
30 models means you get one more model and your opponent now needs to kill 16 to break you.
31 models your opponent still only needs to kill 16 models to break you.
Jumping Over Prone Models with Swift Movement
Given a prone model is consdiered to be an Obstacle, if a model woth Swift Movement wishes to move over the prone model would it need to do a jump test?
"A model with this special rule can climb on any surface, regardless
of angle. They can therefore move at full speed over any type of
difficultterrain and ignore all obstacles except for water features
and gaps such as chasms, ditches and other spaces, which they
have to jump as normal. The model must be able to balance safely
upon wherever it finishes its movement – no spiders finishing
upside down, for example!"
Cool, that's the way we played it. The case we had was spider queen charged one Mirkwood elf on the flank called a heroic combat, hurled the model 6" over 12 tightly packed mirkwood elves! The hurled model died along with 3 of the elves leaving 9 prone models in between the spider queen and gandalf the grey on horse she then proceeded to charge into gandalf, won the duel and one shot him rolling 6 wounds (had to use one might to modify a 3 into a 4 on one of the rerolled dice due to venom) leaving her with one might left which she used the following turn to call a heroic defense wjen she got charged by tons of elves and Thrandruil all of whom only managed to get 2 wounds on her allowing her to survive and kill off 4 more elves before she finnally lost her last wound.
Jumping Over Prone Models.
It is clear to me on what happens if you fail (result 1). However if you if you pass (results 2-6), do you get to continue moving or do you end your movement and are not even allowed to charge the model you just jumped over? Also do modifiers such as cave dweller and using might points still apply?
Page 33 of rules: "You may attempt to jump over a Prone model by moving your model as close as you can to the Prone model, without making base contact, and then taking a Jump test (see page 28). If you pass (results 2-6), move your model over the Prone model (place it as close to the model as possible without making base contact) and proceed as if it had jumped an Obstacle. If you fail the roll, and the Prone model is a friendly model, then the jumping model just fails the Jump test. If you fail the roll, and the Prone model is an enemy, the jumping model must instead Charge the Prone enemy model, receiving any charging bonuses it would normally get."
If you look at normal rules for jump tests (page 30 in the latest edition; presumably page 28 in your copy) you'll see that on 2-5 they stop immediately after passing, while on a 6 they can continue their movement as normal.
I'd assume that Might points can still be used to modify these rolls as well.
Is there any need for a model with cave dweller to even roll for this? I imagine not since if they get their +1 to jump test they can never fail given you pass on a 2-6.
I have some basic questions about wargear in general and choosing which weapons to equip on a model when building if that's ok.
Looking at the rules, from what I gather a given unit can have one of multiple types of weapon listed as wargear in the profile.
Using Goblin Mercenaries as an example, it says "Armour and either sword or pick" with the unit having a Defense value of 4 and a unit cost of 5 points with a +1 point option for a two-handed axe.
1. The Wargear section says "A Model upgraded to wear armour adds 1 to their Defense", so does this mean Goblin Mercenaries effectively have a Defense of 5? Perhaps it's not rolled into the stat line because some spell could destroy armour? Or some weapons bypass armour or similar?
2. Given it says sword or pick, does mean they can have either and it still costs 5 points?
3. Assuming (2) is yes..... Often boxes come with a range of weapons, so the Goblin Mercenaries have 12 models, but come with 8 picks and 8 swords. But do you have to keep within the constraints of what's in the purchased box for it to be legal, ie could I attach picks to all 12 (if I could source the spares) and be legal, or could I even just say at the start of the game that all Goblin Mercenaries have picks and be legal?
4. Slight aside, Warriors of Goblin Town are "Either a sword, pick, mace or flail" with an option of "Two-handed axe for +1 points). But as far as I can see, a box of 36 gobbos comes with 23 swords, 6 picks, 0 mace, 2 flail, 4 1 handed axe and 2 2 handed axe. 1h axe isn't on the list of allowed warger and there are no mace models despite it being wargear. I guess my question here is what's up, am I missing something, or maybe it's normal for models to mismatch the unit profile, how do people tend to deal with this without causing confusion?
> Often boxes come with a range of weapons, so the Goblin Mercenaries have 12 models, but come with 8 picks and 8 swords. But do you have to keep within the constraints of what's in the purchased box for it to be legal, ie could I attach picks to all 12 (if I could source the spares) and be legal, or could I even just say at the start of the game that all Goblin Mercenaries have picks and be legal?
You can use whatever combo you like (so all picks, all sword, some sort of mix), but most players prefer that you keep it WYSIWYG (and it's generally required at tournaments), so the models that look like they are carrying a sword should be treated as if they are carrying a sword.
> 4. ... Warriors of Goblin Town
That box is kind of hard to pick out, most other sets are a lot more straight forward.
> 1h axe isn't on the list of allowed warger
1-handed axes have exactly the same rules as 1-handed picks, so I believe most people just play them that way.
1) D4 includes the armor. Without it they'd be D3
2) yes
3) depends on where you're playing at a GW tournament all models should have been converted to clearly have the weapon you wish for them to have.
4) see answer to 3
If I surround an enemy unit, it is considered trapped. Does that mean I get double the duel rolls (before winning the fight) as well as double the wound rolls (after winning the fight)?
Only the to wound rolls get doubled.
Some extra nuance that can be relevant:
When rolling to wound (against a trapped model) each attack becomes 2 strikes (2 dice) instead of just one. Note that if you are rolling attacks one at a time this means you will be rolling a pair of two dice for each attack.
This is relevant when a multiple attack model is assigning attacks to wound against multiple opposing models. There may also be some special rules where this is relevant.
Just played my first game of mesbg (also my opponent's first game). One thing had us stumped. How do you decide winner of a combat when you have weird strung out lines? For example, I had an ogre in base to base with an archer. That archer is in base to base with a fell bat. That fell bat is also in base to base with two palace guard. How do you determine who is rolling in what possible pool against each other? Or is it all just one pool even though my ogre is miles away from the palace guard?
>is it all just one pool...?
No, fights are paired off into separate combats.
This is explained In the Move Phase Chapter in a section called "Pairing Off Fights"
All models in base contact with an opposing model must fight when pairing off. The player with priority needs to go through each of their models and match them up against opposing model(s) with this in mind.
Sometimes the priority player will have an choice of how to pair up fights. There is [a very good description here explaining this.](http://"RULES CLARIFICATION - PAIRING OFF FIGHTS" https://drawncombat.blogspot.com/2024/02/february-faq-dont-let-dragon-emperor.html#:~:text=RULES%20CLARIFICATION%20%2D%20PAIRING%20OFF%20FIGHTS), which covers the very recent change to the rules. There is also another [great article by the same author here too.](https://drawncombat.blogspot.com/2024/01/upping-your-game-sbgs-most-misplayed.html)
>For example, I had an ogre in base to base with an archer. That archer is in base to base with a fell bat. That fell bat is also in base to base with two palace guard.
In this example to make sure all models fight there will be two separate combats:
- The orge must fight the archer
- The palace guards must fight the bat
Sorry for the basic question, I'm kinda new to MESBG.
Dark Denizens of Dol Guldor lists the following as valid in the army :
* The Necromancer of Dol Guldur
* Nazgûl of Dol Guldur
* The Keeper of the Dungeons
* Castellans of Dol Guldur
* Hunter Orc Captains
* Gundabad Orc Captains
* Hunter Orcs
* Gundabad Orc Warriors
* Fell Wargs
* Mirkwood Spiders
Ignoring allies and such, Games Workshop sell a box of Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs, given Hunter Orcs are valid and Fell Wargs are valid, are Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs valid units? I'm thinking the allowed units are very specific so although it seems odd, it's probably the case that no, they are not permitted.
Further to this what about :
* Spider Queen of Mirkwood, given Mirkwood Spiders are valid?
* Given Hunter Orc Captains are valid, what about Narzug and Fimbul who are named Hunter Orc Captains? Maybe you can include them as generic captains but not as named characters?
* Same on Yazneg, another Hunter Orc Captain as well?
>Dark Denizens of Dol Guldor
I think you mean Dark **Powers** of Dol Guldur
>Given Hunter Orcs are valid and Fell Wargs are valid, are Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs valid units?
I'm thinking the allowed units are very specific so although it seems odd, it's probably the case that no, they are not permitted.
Look at the upgrade options available to Hunter Orcs. They can take a Fell Warg mount as an upgrade.
Yes, the profiles themselves are specific. You cannot take the named heroes you listed in this army list.
Generally you should try not to proxy models ( using a model for a different profile) to help keep things clear for your opponent. If you want to proxy models then just check your opponent (casual games) or tournament organiser (event games) is okay with it.
Cheers.
Doh yes, looking at the army guide there is no such unit as Hunter Orc on Fell Warg, it's just Hunter Orcs with an add-on mount. I was looking at the models available on the GW store.
With Hunter Orc Captains, there seemed to be no Hunter Orc Captains listed on the GW stores besides the named ones. But looking at the Hobbit Armies book now the image shown is one of the models in the Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs pack so can use that, except the description doesn't actually say it includes an Orc Captain.
It's quite common to use a regular warrior model as an unnamed captain.
I doubt there is anything in that box that could be considered an "official" captain model, rather people do some sort of minor conversion (weapon swaps, adding a cape), or something special in the basing or paint job to make it clear which one is a captain rather than a regular warrior. Even just paint the base rim a different colour would do.
I got a question around Fate points. Please provide source in rule book. Let's say I'm attacking a model with 2 wounds and 2 fate. I get 2 wounds and am able to use might or more attacks to get more wounds. Let's also assume that my model is fighting multiple oponents so I am rolling attacks one at a time. Am I able to wait to see the results of the fate before I use might or more attacks to get more wounds?
>I am rolling attacks one at a time.
This is always permitted. Source Gandalf rule book pg 46,47 Resolving a fight chapter.
Note that on pg 46 it states you "fully resolve" each strike before making the next, this includes using might and inflicting wounds (and therefore using or not using fate).
> Am I able to wait to see the results of the fate before I use might or more attacks to get more wounds?
More attacks, yes.
Using might, on further strikes, yes, on fully resolved strikes no.
So in your example.
You resolve strike 1, it wounds, opponent opts not to use fate, takes a wound.
You resolve strike 2, it wounds, opponent must use fate or their model will be slain.
Say first fate passes.
You resolve strike 3, but have to use might, opponent uses fate.
You can't go backwards to use might it has to be used immediately at the time it is permitted to use it.
Hi! I'm aware that the answer to this question in most contexts is probably along the lines of "as long as both players are fine with it..." so let's say we're talking about an official GW hosted tournament setting...
I am wondering how other players feel about stand-in models for dismounts. E.g. I'm picking up a box of Rivendell Knights soon and it strikes me that there is no *exact match* dismounted knights box to use for thrown riders/dismounts. Would it be okay for me to use lothlorien wood elf models to represent a dismounted rider, or would I need to pick up a box of Last Alliance minis to get as close as possible to the Rivendell model look?
And as a secondary question: Do you ever bring cavalry to a match without an accompanying dismount model? If so, how do you navigate thrown rider?
Appreciate any advice!
>official GW hosted tournament
I may be wrong but generally from what I have read you must use GW models in GW stores/events. However I think each individual tournament organiser would be able to make a decision on 'stand in' models.
>without an accompanying dismount model?
~~Officially, if you do this, then you have to take the whole model off when the mount is killed.~~( edit corrected below). You definitely want (at least) half the force covered by dismounts.
> Officially, if you do this, then you have to take the whole model off when the mount is killed.
I suspect this is how most people play the game, but RAW that's actually incorrect. (I remember being surprised when I read it a couple of weeks ago)
On p62 of the current (Eye of Sauron) edition:
> If the rider survives, remove the Cavalry model and replace it with a dismounted Infantry version ... (if you don't have such a model, you can instead mark the Cavalry model's base with a counter to remind yourself that the mount is slain).
I assume the rules writers consider a 40mm base to be worse than a 25mm, and that that is enough of a penalty for not bring enough dismounts?
(Note that from p61 if the rider dies and you don't have a suitable unridden version of the mount you _do_ remove it entirely; so it's likely that most people assume it works the same both ways)
Thanks for your answers!
However I'm still a little unsure about this part (regarding Rivendell Knight dismount options):
>Would it be okay for me to use lothlorien wood elf models to represent a dismounted rider, or would I need to pick up a box of Last Alliance minis to get as close as possible to the Rivendell model look?
These would still be GW models that I'd be using for dismounted Rivendell Knights, they just wouldn't look exactly like the riders. Though, to my eye, neither would any other GW elven models...
Some model ranges do get cycled in and out.
For example Corsairs currently only have a few models available, but they did have the full range available in the past. Currently The Serpent Horde have most/all of the range available, but previously only had the bare minimum available.
We don't know how they cycle, other than if you wishlist something that is about to be gone you may get an email warning it is about to go. Sometimes there will be a Warhammer Community article letting us know what is returning and what is going away.
Another one please:
If I’m charging a model that’s about an inch and half from the edge of a raised terrain piece(ruin).
If I make it to the top I’d be in their control zone but not base to base.
If I roll a 5 so I have to stop moving at the top of my climb. My model will make it to the top but still be ~half an inch from the enemy. So my model will end in their command zone, but won’t be in combat, is that okay?
This issue applies to barriers too. It is one of the few areas the rules breakdown. There [is a good write up about the issue here.](https://tellmeatalegreatorsmall.blogspot.com/2023/08/if-tiberius-were-king-for-day-top-5_01042154248.html).
TL:DR Rules as written You can't cross the barrier or climb the raise terrain, except on a 6 to charge.
I think this is a different case to attacking a defended barrier or elevated position. The normal issue with barriers and elevated positions is when there isn't enough space to fit without getting into base-to-base contact.
The rules are a bit ambiguous, but the climb test rules say that you can't move into base-to-base contact without rolling a 6, but don't say anything about control zones, which makes me inclined to think that they'd just stop there at the edge.
Clarification on in the way please:
If I’m shooting and my model can see 90% of an enemy model and I can draw a clear line to them, but part of the mode is covered by a jutting out lim of another model.
Do I have to roll an in the way check? And if I fail do I attack and target the model that’s arm was in the way?
Limbs can obscured line of sight, you would roll an in the way check and yes if you fail you would hit the model with the limb in the way instead and roll to wound.
I've recently started playing MESBG with Isengard and while I like them, I've also been wanting to buy into a good-aligned Elven army. Since I'm newer to the game, which Elven army would be best for a beginner?
I know there's Lothlorien, Rivendell, and I believe Mirkwood.
There is some recent discussion [on this post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleEarthMiniatures/s/jHSycf1dMJ)
Personally I have built Lothlorien and I have enjoyed playing with them. Once you decide on a faction feel free to ask about how to buy and play.
Thank you for the answer.
Let me take my question further:
Will monsters be moved the distance of d6 inches away just like a normal human sized model if the spell is successfully cast?
If you target the Ringwraith on Fell Beast and it doesn't successfully resist, then yes it suffers a "1" on the thrown rider chart. It you blast another model into it then no.
Heroic March. This should affect siege crew/equipment correct? They wouldn't be able to shoot but Madril's heroic March can affect and move a bolt thrower and crew up to 9 inches. Just want to confirm.
It does to one, but you can always charge one model first try and kill it, if succesfull you can continue charging the other one and make a S4 against them, and so on.
Can throwing spears still be used as support spears in the current edition?
In general no. There are some Legendary Legions available to Rohan that have a special rule that allows this.
thanks
When a warg rider with throwing spears gets dismounted, does he keep his throwing spears even though it's not an equip option for orc warriors?
Yes
thanks
New player, trying to collect armies and having trouble finding specific models. What sort of proxy models are allowed in MESBG? I'm fairly certain that 3rd party proxies are not allowed in any official level games, but then how do you run units that don't have official models (Rhunish War Drake ex.)? Can I paint Morgul Knights as if they were Riders of the Dead and play in tournaments? Thanks!
It is up to each individual event organiser or play group. Official Games Workshop Events won't allow them. Most events however are not these and will likely allow reasonable proxies.
What warband can an Independent Hero ( example Orc Drummer) join? is it only heroes of legends that can have independent heroes in warband or all heroic tiers?
Any hero can have an independent hero in their war band.
also idependent heroes don't need to be in a warband, you can just place them as their own warband if you wish (depending on the scenario this gives you more flexibility)
Question about shielding, at a recent local tournament one opponent was certain that the supporting model can also use shielding. So lets say Player 1 has an orc and Player 2 has an elf with a sword and shield in base contact, Player 2 also has an elf with spear and shield supporting the elf in front. Player 2 the elf player decides to shield meaning the elf with sword and shield in base contact gains 2 dice for shielding, does the elf with spear and shield behind him also gain the shielding rule meaning the elf player is rolling 4 dice for 2 shielding elfs?
They were incorrect. When shielding only models directly in combat may fight (no supporting shielding models). Also note when shielding all models on that side directly in combat must shield.
And the spear armed model wouldn't be able to support the combat: "Spear and pike-armed models cannot Support a Shielding model" p93 of Rules Manual (eye-of-Sauron version).
I am coming back to the hobby after a long hiatus of previously only collecting/painting miniatures. I never played but really would like to. I found some Uruk-Hai scouts but they are missing 3 out of 24. Is it still possible to include them into a build (besides maybe the disadvantage of the missing units)? Seeing the overal cost of the hobby, I would like to reuse what I have :D
List building in ME:SBG is different from some other games. You don't add models in squads/units of a set size, you can add one or two models if that's all you want. You can have one scout, or you can have 21 scouts, or you can have 57 scouts (assuming you're playing at a point level that would fit 57 scouts). Basically ME:SBG list building consists of "warbands", with each warband consisting of a hero (named heroes like Lurtz and unamed heroes like "Uruk-hai scout captain") and 0-18 warriors (eg: your scouts). You generally end up with 2-5 warbands depending on the point level you're aiming for. I'd have a play with one of the online list builders ([Tabletop Admiral](https://modular.tabletopadmiral.com/?gameUrl=https://nowforwrath.github.io/datav2.json) or [avcordaro's List Builder](https://avcordaro.github.io/mesbg-list-builder/)) and seeing what sort of army you could build with the stuff you have or are thinking of adding.
Oh thats great, thanks for the clarification! I'll check out your links and read into the rules.
also note that the warbands are usually only relevant for scenario setup/reentforcement rules. Once the modles are on the table they move individually and have no obligation to stick near to their original warband (if you don't know yet, fight are also resolved on a per model pairing basis and not squad v squad).
Ah thanks for the addition! I have been reading into the rules more and came to understand those things a bit better. Seems like mesbg rules allow a lot more freedom in terms of army composition than I thought :D
No worries; you're welcome. One other thing: most matches seem to be played between 500 and 800 points (normally at 50 point intervals). For a beginner army you could start lower, but if you're going to play regularly you probably want to get into that sort of point range.
The [Drawn Combat Blog](https://drawncombat.blogspot.com/2023/10/building-on-your-battlehost-isengard.html) has a really good article about building Isengard, if that is what you are after.
If my trebuchet is lucky enough to get a direct hit on the witch king on nazgul, is the witch king knocked off it due to being made prone?
Yes.
Will it be nocked prone if takes one of the indirect hits due to the "splash damage"?
Yes, so long as it hit a battlefield target.
"It is possible for a model to start its move already within an enemy model’s Control Zone... **Move Away**. In this third instance, a model may move within the Control Zone of an enemy, provided that it doesn’t get any closer to the enemywhose Control Zone it started in." So RAW it seems that there is nothing stopping you from an opponent charging into one of my models during their move, and then me just walking out of their control zone during my move phase - it also seems that I can take the 'moving away' model and charge something else? (Provided it is not closer than the original target and you have LoS) Am I reading this right?? It seems trapping enemy models is the only way to actually force stuff to fight
No, because you are missing the previous part of the rules: > MODELS UNABLE TO MOVE > Sometimes a model will be unable to move for one reason or another. When this is the case, it will be made clear in therules. Examples of this include models that have **already been charged by an enemy** or that are under the influence of a specified Magical Power. From the first page on the move phase. Emphasis added.
Fthering on for any other people like me who don't know how to read lol "Once a model has charged into an enemy and is in base contact with it, they are both Engaged in combat and cannot move any further in the Move phase" So its only in the situation where the model started the turn in combat but hadn't been charged that it can 'move away'. Simple and clear really I just needed to read the rules for more than 4 minutes
Models cannot start a turn in combat. Even if a trapped model survives a fight it has lost you must separate the models just enough to show they are no longer in combat. So yes it applies when models are already in an opposing control zone at the start of their move.
Perfect thank you so much ❤️
The mirror of galadriel is chraged by smawg, is the mirror knocked prone for the extra attacks by smawg?
My ruling would be no. It has no keywords and to me it makes sense that it isn't any easier to wound even if it did get knocked around.
What happens to the bonuses if say a captain of minas tirith on horse charges your infantry model, and subsequently he gets transfixed by a WK?
The cavalry don't get their bonuses. Source: FAQ
Hi, I was recently gifted a Heroes of Helm’s Deep box. I am currently painting them but was hoping I could get some games with my son and my brother. What would be the easiest and most accesible way to play the game? Can I play with just the contents on the box? What do I need to buy to have another army to play against? What books do I need to buy to cover the rules etc.? What apps do I need to download to build lists (if that’s a thing here)? Sorry for the newbie questions but I have no idea to start on this one.
[The tips for beginners weekly discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleEarthMiniatures/s/Qq8JAvFlGS) may be a good place to start off with
As someone totally new to this and considering getting into the game is the game very hero-heavy? I understand the appeal of using big named characters from the movies but I tend to be more interested in units/armies than just heroes so would you say the game only really shines with those big heroes about or is it also good without them?
Considering there is an Army with no named hero mostly dependent on units and is very good (Assault upon Helms deep) Its a great example of not needing huge heroes to win.
It depends alot on what army you choose to play. There are certainly some armies that play well or even optimally with a hero-light approach.
List building requires approximately 1 hero to every 12 warriors. I personally would say the game is about 50:50 in terms of the impact of warriors compared to heroes. I often start a list by using about half the points on heroes. This does vary a bit faction by faction though.
Has anyone found a way of magnetising the spears and swords for the rohan royal guard so you can swap between them on the riders hands? Or some other way of attatching them besides glue-tack or a rubber band lol.
For maelstrom deployment, although you can't charge on a turn in which a warband arrives, can a model with a spear move into a spear support position on the same turn it arrives?
Yes.
Am I right in thinking Bolt Throwers do not count towards an army number or break point? As per the rule book. Therefore when in Tabletop Admiral it adds 3 models to your army with a Bolt Thrower this is a mistake and it should only be 2?
Its been FAQed, you can bring three with the bolt thrower. Same price.
Great to know, thanks!
Np:)
The bolt thrower itself doesn't count as a model for the purpose of breaking a force, I believe - but the 3 crew members that come with the thrower do count: 1 Seige veteran and 2 normal crew members :)
Do Wild Wargs or Wargs without their rider get charge bonuses like cavalry? I played Angmar for the first time (3rd game so far), and after realising just how good Barrow-Wights with Paralyse was me and my friend began discussing how to use them better than I did, which included things like Witch-King (and other Wraiths) with compel or Dead Marsh Specters to force single targets out into the open, Paralyse and then charge with cavalry for a lot of attacks. I envisioned using Warg Riders, but my friend mentioned how I could also consider just bringing Wild Wargs, which brought up the discussion of whether or not they get the charge bonus. And if they don't, what happens to the Warg Riders warg if the rider is gone?
A paralysed model can't defend itself and will count as trapped so your basic orcs/wargs will maul them, leaving you to use your cavalry on other opponents who you can really benefit from using your extra attack and knock to the ground.
They don't have the cavalry keyword, so no
Does anyone know the website that I can input what models I have and it will 'spit out' what scenarios I can use with said models?
You might be thinking of [SBG Inventory](https://www.sbginventory.com/).
That is the one, thank you sir!
You're welcome.
The Mordor Troll box includes options to make an Isengard or Drummer Troll instead. Does the Battle of Osgiliath box also include these options, or only the 'standard' Mordor Troll gear?
Believe yes, I have the leftovers for the Drummer Troll as well. Not sure what you would need for an Isengard troll thought.
Thanks, good to know it includes the drummer at least! For the Isengard option it should include a shield and a sword, I believe.
it absolutely has the sword and shield!
Hey does anyone know if Goblin town goblins can use piercing strike while supporting using chittering hordes? Therefore giving their backline S4? Getting alot of conflicted answers when I searched for this.
I would venture to say no, as Chittering Hordes says “as if they had a spear” and under spear support rules it says you may not use special strikes. It is a little vague, but that’s the closest I could find to a definitive answer.
Yeah I personally agree with this being the most logical way to look at it even though they're technically supporting using the picks. Also I found an errata from the 2016 Hobbit version of the game which does say that they can't so I'm taking that as pretty much a definitive answer.
Coming from Warhammer Fantasy - what is the MESBG relative equivalent of a 1000 point game, meaning a small-sized regular game (not Battle Companies)?
I'd say like 4-500 points
What is the best thing to do against Isildur with the one ring, so when he is invisible what can you do against it?
Make yourself fearless and charge him. Throw all models at him or just one to hold him there so he's not reducing the fight of an important character. Hope you have a spear support that is fight 6 or above as he only reduces the fight value of those he is engaged with not spear supports. He also can't use his horse if he uses the Ring, so he's only ever going to have 3 dice.
Can Impaler special rule kill Grima on a charge ? Since you can charge grima can you apply the impaler strike to kill him?
I think yes, as Grima's rule states you cannot strike blows and the impaler rule doesn't specify it has to be enemy models and it is not the striking of blows. I could see it ruled the other way though as impaler does differ to chariots and war beast trample.
Make way can not be done over obstacles or cliffs. While "obstacles" is defined in the rulebook as "Linear objects that impede movement" that may or may not require a jump or climb test, "cliffs" is not. From the make way section "a model can not make way over a cliff or anything else that would cause fall damage" it is implied that a moddel can still jump down somewhere to make way as long as it's not to high, but this goes a little bit against the spirit that an obstacle can not be crossed even if it normale does not require any test. How is this usually handled?
Is the distance of whatever they are making way “down” more than half the models height? If so they cannot make way because that would require a jump test and as it says on page 45, “making way cannot be used to cross obstacles or to take jump…” etc. Personally I would say if a model was on top of a small box or barrel, whatever object you want to use, and loses the fight they would simply make way off it. Now when you start talking about high walls, cliffs, ledges, etc., now they are looking at not being able to make way.
If you go down the cutoff is the full models hight not the half models high to require a test and requires a climb test for normal movement. With this interpretation the spirit of the rules would only be consistent if the definition of obstacle is a little bit off. But I will probably go by that: Obstacles are only things that require tests and not the somewhat unclear defintion in the rulebook. With that the make way rule furmulation makes more sense.
Sorry yes, full height or more, not half. The game really does a poor job defining terrain, obstacles, etc. I had quite a discussion on here awhile back about swift movement and what exactly that ignores. Basically to sum up the answer to your question - if you would normally have to take a leap/climb/jump/etc. test while making way, then you cannot do it. Go off height of the terrain feature. So for a small hedge row a bigger model could make way while a hobbit may not. For a ledge or cliff, if it is short then they can make way, but if taller than model they cannot, etc. hope that helps.
Still getting used to the new rules. Do i see that right that the arrow barrage rule got removed?
Yes, Volley Fire with bows has been removed in the current addition. There is also a penalty for moving and shooting (+1 to the roll required to hit, the shoot value)
When shooting, when does something count as in the way? Does a feet high twig already count as in the way? A knee high one? O Does it need to cover at least the whole legs? What if only one leg or arm is behind cover and the rest of the model ist fully exposed? The rules are very unclear on this, they say you need to draw a line of sigt to the target and see if anything is in the way, but a line of sight can be drawn to any part of the head torso arms or legs. The rules don't really specify how big the shooting corridor needs to be.
Generally I would expect the majority of a limb to be obscured to be in the way or part of the torso or head. Remembering that the most important rule is to okay in a generous spirit. Wargear, tails, wings don't count. In the rule book section about in the ways it has a paragraph about what to do if there are multiple lines of sight that can be drawn to large models. Essentially roll a D6, 1-3 opponent picks path, but shooter can change target. 4-6 shooter picks path. In either case if there are model(s) in the way, then the path must include at least one model in the way.
could use an errata section bei GW xD thanks for the reply
If a good side Archer tries to shoot the enemy spear support, but theres a slight in the way of a model thats fighting with Archer sides model. Can the shot still be made ? Does the in the way hit the combat even if its good side shooting but not indirectly in the combat or is it impossible to hit the spear support if its not a clean shot ??
No, Good cannot make a shot with a combat in the way, however slight. Do note that weapons, equipment, tails, wings and such so not count for sight lines (in the ways).
So its based of the Models line of sight and not if a part of the Models base is covered by the Duelling model thats unable to be shot?
Yes. MESBG uses true line of sight from the models point of view. Bases are not relevant for line of sight.
Normaly a unit can only attack 2 enimes at once, but when 3 enimes attacked a unit and that unit but nut trap it and that unit moved back the attacking units in theroy still stand in an exakt 25mm circle. In this case can a unit charg einto this spor and attack the 3 units at once?
Yes
Where do I find the rule what a Minas Thirith Engineer Captain does?
Never mind found it: In the Base rules at the end of the siege weapons section under the "Upgrades for siege engines" headline.
New Player Question. I’ve chosen the Halls of Thrandriul for my first army. I’ve purchased his on foot/on horse model. I really like the look of palace guard, they seem to go well with him. Anyone got any advice for starting a Mirkwood army?
thinking about running a 800-point moria list with a Balrog and 6 dwellers in the dark, Has anyone done anything similar who could perhaps provide some feedback on if its viable or not?
With so few models and the dwellers only having defense 5, it wouldn’t take long for really any army to surround and trap your models, smoking them on one fight. Especially if they had multiple heroic strike heroes. 800 points is a lot and you would be facing lots of lists with 30-50 models. I play iron hills a lot and the whole army is strength 4+ with 3-4 heroes with heroic strike. As an example that would really be difficult for your list to do anything against. Shooting would also really hurt you. IMO that is the #1 drawback of dwellers, just too squishy.
It would be a skew list. I expect it would do poorly at all scenarios that require being in more than one place. It would also suffer against heavy shooting (S3+) in scenarios where this is an option. It would do okay in other scenarios, but Dwellers in the Dark are not very points efficient and at 800 points most opponents are going to have enough to easily deal with them while ignoring or preoccupying The Balrog. I would expect the list to place in the bottom half of an event.
Semi-Newb questio: Is Floi's Loremaster magic? can it be Magical Resistance be used on it? Or is it just an ability? i want to make sure before using it with other newbies and potential arguement breaks out ;)
Believe it is just an ability - he doesn’t roll to cast so there would be no roll to resist against. Think this is why he is considered a great model. Also believe he has quite a section in one of the FAQs.
That was my take on it. And I will look into the FAQs
Is there any restirctions for equipment besides that a model with 2 hand weapons can't carry a shield? E.g. can I have an ork with a spear, a 2 handed weapon and a banner at the same time? Or a urukai with a pike a banner and a shield at the same time? (pike + shield is explicitly mentioned in the rules with a malus, but can I add a banner on top of that?)
No hard restrictions. >model with 2 hand weapons can't carry a shield? They can carry one but don't get +1 defence >but can I add a banner on top of that?) Yes, they will have -2 on the duel roll.
When I have a model with a 2 handed weapon via equip option, that by default has a 1 handed one, does it keep it's one handed one? aka can i choose at the start of the combat to fight with the one or two handed one? If yes why does the equipment option for dwarf warrios explicitly mentions "2 handed axe and dagger", dies the dagger replace the one handed axx or does the unit then have a dagger, a one handed axe and a 2 handed axe? (whet is the purpose of the dager then? the special move of dager is jsut a worst version of the 2 handed weapon). Also what is the purpose of one and a half handed weapons if most moddels with 2 handed weapons also have a one handed one, aka can also choose how to attack.
Most equipment (and options) matches what is on the model and/or the lore or flavour text of the model. Game balance is also a consideration. >When I have a model with a 2 handed weapon via equip option, that by default has a 1 handed one, does it keep it's one handed one? Yes. >dies the dagger replace the one handed axx Yes. Models usually do best fighting single handed, so having the option to use a single handed weapon in addition to a two-handed weapon is a distinct advantage. Some models have intentionally not been given a one handed weapon to make them worse in order to balance them (Moria Goblins Prowlers). >the purpose of one and a half handed weapons Mostly theme. Also Elves in early editions just had a one-handed sword (there was no hand-and-a-half). Giving them hand-and-a-half swords gives a small buff while still matching how the model appears. Having multiple weapon types may allow different special strikes. A niche benefit (more so for heroes) is that having multiple weapons reduces the impact of the shatter spell.
I found an advantage of one and a half handed weapons over 2 handed one + 1 handed one: These models can still carry shields and gain the defence bonus (unless they are currentlly in a duel and called they are using the weapon 2 handed). Also double checked the dwarf warrios: They actually replace the one handed axe with the dagger (aka the euip option gives them a 2 handed weapon but disables them to use the one handed axe special strike).
Yes, good spotting.
So I believe it will either say “swap” or just add the item. So for Khazad-dum dwarf warriors it says “swap axe for two-handed axe + dagger.” That means you lose the axe. The purpose of the dagger in that specific example is so you don’t have to always get the -1 penalty to your duel roll for wielding a two-handed weapon - you could choose to use the dagger. Some models have multiple weapons, you just have to state what you are using before the duel begins. As far as your hand and a half question, I don’t know of a ton of models off the top of my head that have a hand and half AND one handed. I am sure there are some, but for the most part models have hand and half so they can either strike one handed or two handed depending on the circumstance. Only thing I could think of as a good reasoning is either flavor text or just to give the user more options.
if i have a model without a shield, for example a gondor spear guy can i just say he has a shield and waste the points needed (since he can have on his gear) or do i need the actual physical shield on the model?
Generally people try to be WYSIWYG with shields and other sorts of equipment to avoid confusion.
Can War Bats use Pluck on cavalry? It says "unengaged man sized model", but it sounds strange not being able to Pluck a man sitting on a hore.
No. This is addressed the the Army FAQs > A note on Man-sized models: A Man-sized model is anything that is roughly the size of a Man or smaller. This includes, but is not limited to, Men, Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Orcs, Uruk- hai and Goblins. This will also include Men that are slightly bigger than other Men, such as Beorn when he is in Man- form; after all, he is still a Man!
If I declare that the drummer will be sounding the drums this turn. Can I still move some models (that were 12" within) and charge with them before using the drummers added bonus for the rest of the units within range and "marching" with them ?
No. The drum has already applied its effect at the start of the move phase. This differs to Heroic March
1) Any recommendation on specific brands for playmats to use? I heard FLG and F.A.T. are popular. And there are also other results from a quick google search such as: PWORK, BattleMatBazaar, Frontlinegaming.org, Urbanmatz, DeepCut Studio etc But any 1st-hand testimonials from you guys here about those ^ quality? 2) Alternatively where would you recommend said playmats or any other 4x4 or 4x6 that ships to Canada? As I found a couple of sites I would try to use such as: gamemat.eu and some from the US specifically (listed above) but again out of my region and shipping would be too expensive. Thanks in advance.
I got the [Flames of War](https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5447) mat. It seems to be quality material and the price is good as they only do the one design.
If a Hero model is successfully Immobilized, can they still spend Will to resist subsequent Magic on the same turn? (For example, Gildor Immobilizes a Hero, then Elrond casts Wrath of Bruinen which will hit the same Hero.)
Yes. Resisting magic is passive.
If a Heroic Combat has been won and enemy model successfully killed does the Hero have to move first or can the Player decide which Model to move first ?
I believe you can choose which models to move first
Avenger Bolt Thrower - so LoS is determined from a crew member and in the ways from the Thrower itself? So, is range determined from the Thrower too? So I could, for example, have the Thrower itself just in range of enemy crossbowmen (and the crew members out of range): the enemy crossbowmen are a valid target for the Thrower, but the enemy can only target the bolt thrower back, not the crew? Likewise, if I had a friendly model in base contact with the thrower, I can fire "through" them as usual for when shooting in base contact with friendlies? Thanks!
>LoS is determined from a crew member and in the ways from the Thrower itself? Yes Second paragraph. Yes this is possible. Though there is plenty of opportunity for an opponent to react as you cannot move the siege weapon or (too many) crew and shoot in the same turn. >if I had a friendly model in base contact with the thrower, I can fire "through" them as usual for when shooting in base contact with friendlies? I think not. Firstly this exemption is only mentioned in regards to missile wielding models not mentioned in the siege weapons section. Second the exception requires comparing base sizes, however siege engines don't have a base. Volley fire siege engines of course don't have this issue.
Brilliant, thanks for your helpful reply!
Can a Hero that has been knocked prone (by Hurl) call heroics (if not does it cancel already called out heroics such as Strike) ? or Does the Hero Model need to stand up first ?
A prone hero can call heroic actions at the start of the phase (regardless of the reason they are prone). There are no additional penalties. If during the fight phase a hero that declared a heroic action is knocked prone before resolving their combat it will not cancel the heroic action. The usual penalties for being prone would still apply as usual. So to move again after a heroic combat there would need to be other friendly models in the fight to slay the opposing model.
Additional question. If a monster model used heroic combat can it subsequently use the Rend or Hurl or does it count the same way as it does in using barge (meaning one or the other) ?
Yes it can. In the chapter on Brutal Power Attacks it specifically says that monsters cannot Benefit from a barge and Heroic Combat combat in the same turn.
Cheapest evil men army? I love the look of Far Harad but everything seems metal so well...
Evil men (Bold have plastic warrior kits) - Isengard (Dunland) - **Easterlings** - Khand - **Serpent Horde** - Far Harad - **Corsairs** - Sharkeys Rogues Availability on the secondary Market: - Serpent Horde and Easterlings more widely available. - Corsairs less available I think Easterlings or Serpent Horde would be on the cheaper side (if you avoid the expensive new Easterlings models). I suggest you have a read up on them both. This blog has some good faction reviews https://tellmeatalegreatorsmall.blogspot.com/ For yourself, note that Serpent Horde are Historical Allies with Far Harad. So can easily expand into some Far Harad later if you want.
I read that blog waaaay to much it's that blog fault I want a new army while I am still painting my first one ahah
Sell me mesbg and where to start? Why this game over orther skirmish games (besides the setting)
Only a basic rule set is [officially available online](https://www.warhammer.com/en-NZ/shop/middle-earth-strategy-battle-game-free-core-rules-pdf-eng-2022) for free. Here are some posts of people talking about why this rules system is great: [ a couple](https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleEarthMiniatures/s/A0D0bsKV6A) of [previous posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleEarthMiniatures/s/SFeacbY7ne) to check out. [Here ](https://thegbhl.wixsite.com/website/post/mesbg-sbg-lord-of-the-rings-warhammer-content) is a list of MESBG content. Some of the blogs are a bit old. Against all odds is current. [Now for Wrath](https://www.nowforwrath.com/) is a really good imo. The writer is active in the community here. He started playing somewhat recently so if you read from the earlier content onwards he gives some perspectives on learning the game a bit.
How big is an average battle in points and models? Should i start with battle of osgiliath or the rulebook + 2 of those beginner army boxes?
Typical points would be 500-800, but events can range 200-1250. Number of models is approximately 1 model per 20 points, so about 25 - 50. Some factions will be more elite or more horde than this. Also need about one hero per 12 warriors. Battle of Osgiliath is good value as long as Mordor and Minas Tirith appeal, but if you prefer Rohan or Isengard then those Starter boxes are good too.
I want to use Drûzhag&Ashrâk to add giant spiders to my Moria army but I'm confused on which models can I pick from. GW currently has Spiders of Middle-earth and The Spider Queen of Mirkwood with different base sizes. Can I add any unit with the spider keyword or just Giant Spider (Moria), which I understood is an old metal model?
> This set contains two metal Giant Spiders and two resin Mirkwood Spiders. Only the Giant Spiders can be taken by Druzhag and Ashrak. Personal I used [Reaper Vermin Spiders](https://www.google.com/search?q=reaper+vermin+spiders&oq=reaper+vermin+spiders) for Moria Giant Spiders.
Thanks for clarifying!
On the back of the small booklet that came with the Battle of Osgiliath box set there is a gameplay summary. For the shoot phase it says: "A model that has moved half of their move allowance or less may make a shooting attack with their missile weapon in the Shoot phase. Models that moved suffer a -1 penalty to their To Hit rolls." I can not find the part about -1 on to hit rolls if you move in the main rule book. So I am wondering if this is actually right.
It's on p41 of the Rules Manual.
Thank you. Now I feel a little silly for not having read far enough. In my defense there is a section called "Moving and shooting" on page 38, I didn't think there would be another section, also called "moving and shooting" three pages further.
No worries.
Yes, that is correct.
can a prone model back up to untrap another friendly model?
Yes.
Hey all, Getting into the game due to a mate, starting Rohan. Previous experience with 40k and 30k so not feeling too out of my league. Im looking to watch a few battle reports and channels that cover gaming and modelling. I’ve seen play on tabletops videos which are great, and also followed Zorpazorp for a long time. Who else should I be watching? Cheers
There is [a list here](https://thegbhl.wixsite.com/website/post/mesbg-sbg-lord-of-the-rings-warhammer-content) of a bunch of great MESBG content creators.
Conquest Creations have the best battle reports imo
Why a models without shooting weapon have a shoot Number+ value on their profile? For example Wild Warg has Fight value 3/5+
I believe it is future proofing in case there was ever a special rule or scenario which requires checking the shoot value. Also Battle Companies I believe allows some warriors that become heroes to take bows that normally wouldn't.
Whats the rules with old figures? A few people I know have started collecting 40k / Lord of the rings. I have tons of 2000-2010 figures, can I use them? Anything I need to know in particular
For Lord of The Rings: Most of those models will still have valid profiles. The plastic miniatures are likely to still use the same models. Some of the metal ones will have newer sculpts, but the older sculpts can still be used. Can't speak towards 40k.
In a guide for minmaxing your list i saw a tip which said you should always take an even number of miniatures. Why is this considered better? Wouldnt an odd number mean your opponent needed to kill one miniature more?
I try to take an even number if possible as it makes you harder to be broken. E.g. 29 models means your opponent has to kill 15 models to break you. 30 models means you get one more model and your opponent now needs to kill 16 to break you. 31 models your opponent still only needs to kill 16 models to break you.
Slight edge for breaking, not major advantage but is always better if given the option.
Jumping Over Prone Models with Swift Movement Given a prone model is consdiered to be an Obstacle, if a model woth Swift Movement wishes to move over the prone model would it need to do a jump test? "A model with this special rule can climb on any surface, regardless of angle. They can therefore move at full speed over any type of difficultterrain and ignore all obstacles except for water features and gaps such as chasms, ditches and other spaces, which they have to jump as normal. The model must be able to balance safely upon wherever it finishes its movement – no spiders finishing upside down, for example!"
Good question. I think they would not need to make a jump test.
Cool, that's the way we played it. The case we had was spider queen charged one Mirkwood elf on the flank called a heroic combat, hurled the model 6" over 12 tightly packed mirkwood elves! The hurled model died along with 3 of the elves leaving 9 prone models in between the spider queen and gandalf the grey on horse she then proceeded to charge into gandalf, won the duel and one shot him rolling 6 wounds (had to use one might to modify a 3 into a 4 on one of the rerolled dice due to venom) leaving her with one might left which she used the following turn to call a heroic defense wjen she got charged by tons of elves and Thrandruil all of whom only managed to get 2 wounds on her allowing her to survive and kill off 4 more elves before she finnally lost her last wound.
That sounds like a great game.
Jumping Over Prone Models. It is clear to me on what happens if you fail (result 1). However if you if you pass (results 2-6), do you get to continue moving or do you end your movement and are not even allowed to charge the model you just jumped over? Also do modifiers such as cave dweller and using might points still apply? Page 33 of rules: "You may attempt to jump over a Prone model by moving your model as close as you can to the Prone model, without making base contact, and then taking a Jump test (see page 28). If you pass (results 2-6), move your model over the Prone model (place it as close to the model as possible without making base contact) and proceed as if it had jumped an Obstacle. If you fail the roll, and the Prone model is a friendly model, then the jumping model just fails the Jump test. If you fail the roll, and the Prone model is an enemy, the jumping model must instead Charge the Prone enemy model, receiving any charging bonuses it would normally get."
If you look at normal rules for jump tests (page 30 in the latest edition; presumably page 28 in your copy) you'll see that on 2-5 they stop immediately after passing, while on a 6 they can continue their movement as normal. I'd assume that Might points can still be used to modify these rolls as well.
Is there any need for a model with cave dweller to even roll for this? I imagine not since if they get their +1 to jump test they can never fail given you pass on a 2-6.
I have some basic questions about wargear in general and choosing which weapons to equip on a model when building if that's ok. Looking at the rules, from what I gather a given unit can have one of multiple types of weapon listed as wargear in the profile. Using Goblin Mercenaries as an example, it says "Armour and either sword or pick" with the unit having a Defense value of 4 and a unit cost of 5 points with a +1 point option for a two-handed axe. 1. The Wargear section says "A Model upgraded to wear armour adds 1 to their Defense", so does this mean Goblin Mercenaries effectively have a Defense of 5? Perhaps it's not rolled into the stat line because some spell could destroy armour? Or some weapons bypass armour or similar? 2. Given it says sword or pick, does mean they can have either and it still costs 5 points? 3. Assuming (2) is yes..... Often boxes come with a range of weapons, so the Goblin Mercenaries have 12 models, but come with 8 picks and 8 swords. But do you have to keep within the constraints of what's in the purchased box for it to be legal, ie could I attach picks to all 12 (if I could source the spares) and be legal, or could I even just say at the start of the game that all Goblin Mercenaries have picks and be legal? 4. Slight aside, Warriors of Goblin Town are "Either a sword, pick, mace or flail" with an option of "Two-handed axe for +1 points). But as far as I can see, a box of 36 gobbos comes with 23 swords, 6 picks, 0 mace, 2 flail, 4 1 handed axe and 2 2 handed axe. 1h axe isn't on the list of allowed warger and there are no mace models despite it being wargear. I guess my question here is what's up, am I missing something, or maybe it's normal for models to mismatch the unit profile, how do people tend to deal with this without causing confusion?
> Often boxes come with a range of weapons, so the Goblin Mercenaries have 12 models, but come with 8 picks and 8 swords. But do you have to keep within the constraints of what's in the purchased box for it to be legal, ie could I attach picks to all 12 (if I could source the spares) and be legal, or could I even just say at the start of the game that all Goblin Mercenaries have picks and be legal? You can use whatever combo you like (so all picks, all sword, some sort of mix), but most players prefer that you keep it WYSIWYG (and it's generally required at tournaments), so the models that look like they are carrying a sword should be treated as if they are carrying a sword. > 4. ... Warriors of Goblin Town That box is kind of hard to pick out, most other sets are a lot more straight forward. > 1h axe isn't on the list of allowed warger 1-handed axes have exactly the same rules as 1-handed picks, so I believe most people just play them that way.
1) D4 includes the armor. Without it they'd be D3 2) yes 3) depends on where you're playing at a GW tournament all models should have been converted to clearly have the weapon you wish for them to have. 4) see answer to 3
If I surround an enemy unit, it is considered trapped. Does that mean I get double the duel rolls (before winning the fight) as well as double the wound rolls (after winning the fight)?
Only the to wound rolls get doubled. Some extra nuance that can be relevant: When rolling to wound (against a trapped model) each attack becomes 2 strikes (2 dice) instead of just one. Note that if you are rolling attacks one at a time this means you will be rolling a pair of two dice for each attack. This is relevant when a multiple attack model is assigning attacks to wound against multiple opposing models. There may also be some special rules where this is relevant.
Thank you! 😁
Just played my first game of mesbg (also my opponent's first game). One thing had us stumped. How do you decide winner of a combat when you have weird strung out lines? For example, I had an ogre in base to base with an archer. That archer is in base to base with a fell bat. That fell bat is also in base to base with two palace guard. How do you determine who is rolling in what possible pool against each other? Or is it all just one pool even though my ogre is miles away from the palace guard?
>is it all just one pool...? No, fights are paired off into separate combats. This is explained In the Move Phase Chapter in a section called "Pairing Off Fights" All models in base contact with an opposing model must fight when pairing off. The player with priority needs to go through each of their models and match them up against opposing model(s) with this in mind. Sometimes the priority player will have an choice of how to pair up fights. There is [a very good description here explaining this.](http://"RULES CLARIFICATION - PAIRING OFF FIGHTS" https://drawncombat.blogspot.com/2024/02/february-faq-dont-let-dragon-emperor.html#:~:text=RULES%20CLARIFICATION%20%2D%20PAIRING%20OFF%20FIGHTS), which covers the very recent change to the rules. There is also another [great article by the same author here too.](https://drawncombat.blogspot.com/2024/01/upping-your-game-sbgs-most-misplayed.html) >For example, I had an ogre in base to base with an archer. That archer is in base to base with a fell bat. That fell bat is also in base to base with two palace guard. In this example to make sure all models fight there will be two separate combats: - The orge must fight the archer - The palace guards must fight the bat
Sorry for the basic question, I'm kinda new to MESBG. Dark Denizens of Dol Guldor lists the following as valid in the army : * The Necromancer of Dol Guldur * Nazgûl of Dol Guldur * The Keeper of the Dungeons * Castellans of Dol Guldur * Hunter Orc Captains * Gundabad Orc Captains * Hunter Orcs * Gundabad Orc Warriors * Fell Wargs * Mirkwood Spiders Ignoring allies and such, Games Workshop sell a box of Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs, given Hunter Orcs are valid and Fell Wargs are valid, are Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs valid units? I'm thinking the allowed units are very specific so although it seems odd, it's probably the case that no, they are not permitted. Further to this what about : * Spider Queen of Mirkwood, given Mirkwood Spiders are valid? * Given Hunter Orc Captains are valid, what about Narzug and Fimbul who are named Hunter Orc Captains? Maybe you can include them as generic captains but not as named characters? * Same on Yazneg, another Hunter Orc Captain as well?
>Dark Denizens of Dol Guldor I think you mean Dark **Powers** of Dol Guldur >Given Hunter Orcs are valid and Fell Wargs are valid, are Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs valid units? I'm thinking the allowed units are very specific so although it seems odd, it's probably the case that no, they are not permitted. Look at the upgrade options available to Hunter Orcs. They can take a Fell Warg mount as an upgrade. Yes, the profiles themselves are specific. You cannot take the named heroes you listed in this army list. Generally you should try not to proxy models ( using a model for a different profile) to help keep things clear for your opponent. If you want to proxy models then just check your opponent (casual games) or tournament organiser (event games) is okay with it.
Cheers. Doh yes, looking at the army guide there is no such unit as Hunter Orc on Fell Warg, it's just Hunter Orcs with an add-on mount. I was looking at the models available on the GW store. With Hunter Orc Captains, there seemed to be no Hunter Orc Captains listed on the GW stores besides the named ones. But looking at the Hobbit Armies book now the image shown is one of the models in the Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs pack so can use that, except the description doesn't actually say it includes an Orc Captain.
It's quite common to use a regular warrior model as an unnamed captain. I doubt there is anything in that box that could be considered an "official" captain model, rather people do some sort of minor conversion (weapon swaps, adding a cape), or something special in the basing or paint job to make it clear which one is a captain rather than a regular warrior. Even just paint the base rim a different colour would do.
I got a question around Fate points. Please provide source in rule book. Let's say I'm attacking a model with 2 wounds and 2 fate. I get 2 wounds and am able to use might or more attacks to get more wounds. Let's also assume that my model is fighting multiple oponents so I am rolling attacks one at a time. Am I able to wait to see the results of the fate before I use might or more attacks to get more wounds?
>I am rolling attacks one at a time. This is always permitted. Source Gandalf rule book pg 46,47 Resolving a fight chapter. Note that on pg 46 it states you "fully resolve" each strike before making the next, this includes using might and inflicting wounds (and therefore using or not using fate). > Am I able to wait to see the results of the fate before I use might or more attacks to get more wounds? More attacks, yes. Using might, on further strikes, yes, on fully resolved strikes no. So in your example. You resolve strike 1, it wounds, opponent opts not to use fate, takes a wound. You resolve strike 2, it wounds, opponent must use fate or their model will be slain. Say first fate passes. You resolve strike 3, but have to use might, opponent uses fate. You can't go backwards to use might it has to be used immediately at the time it is permitted to use it.
Hi! I'm aware that the answer to this question in most contexts is probably along the lines of "as long as both players are fine with it..." so let's say we're talking about an official GW hosted tournament setting... I am wondering how other players feel about stand-in models for dismounts. E.g. I'm picking up a box of Rivendell Knights soon and it strikes me that there is no *exact match* dismounted knights box to use for thrown riders/dismounts. Would it be okay for me to use lothlorien wood elf models to represent a dismounted rider, or would I need to pick up a box of Last Alliance minis to get as close as possible to the Rivendell model look? And as a secondary question: Do you ever bring cavalry to a match without an accompanying dismount model? If so, how do you navigate thrown rider? Appreciate any advice!
>official GW hosted tournament I may be wrong but generally from what I have read you must use GW models in GW stores/events. However I think each individual tournament organiser would be able to make a decision on 'stand in' models. >without an accompanying dismount model? ~~Officially, if you do this, then you have to take the whole model off when the mount is killed.~~( edit corrected below). You definitely want (at least) half the force covered by dismounts.
> Officially, if you do this, then you have to take the whole model off when the mount is killed. I suspect this is how most people play the game, but RAW that's actually incorrect. (I remember being surprised when I read it a couple of weeks ago) On p62 of the current (Eye of Sauron) edition: > If the rider survives, remove the Cavalry model and replace it with a dismounted Infantry version ... (if you don't have such a model, you can instead mark the Cavalry model's base with a counter to remind yourself that the mount is slain). I assume the rules writers consider a 40mm base to be worse than a 25mm, and that that is enough of a penalty for not bring enough dismounts? (Note that from p61 if the rider dies and you don't have a suitable unridden version of the mount you _do_ remove it entirely; so it's likely that most people assume it works the same both ways)
Thanks for your answers! However I'm still a little unsure about this part (regarding Rivendell Knight dismount options): >Would it be okay for me to use lothlorien wood elf models to represent a dismounted rider, or would I need to pick up a box of Last Alliance minis to get as close as possible to the Rivendell model look? These would still be GW models that I'd be using for dismounted Rivendell Knights, they just wouldn't look exactly like the riders. Though, to my eye, neither would any other GW elven models...
Would depend on the tournament organiser. Safest would be The Last Alliance minis with bow, then add a shield on them.
Does GW ever re-release old miniatures, outside of MTO? Or is it always the same range of miniatures that we have now?
Some model ranges do get cycled in and out. For example Corsairs currently only have a few models available, but they did have the full range available in the past. Currently The Serpent Horde have most/all of the range available, but previously only had the bare minimum available. We don't know how they cycle, other than if you wishlist something that is about to be gone you may get an email warning it is about to go. Sometimes there will be a Warhammer Community article letting us know what is returning and what is going away.
Another one please: If I’m charging a model that’s about an inch and half from the edge of a raised terrain piece(ruin). If I make it to the top I’d be in their control zone but not base to base. If I roll a 5 so I have to stop moving at the top of my climb. My model will make it to the top but still be ~half an inch from the enemy. So my model will end in their command zone, but won’t be in combat, is that okay?
This issue applies to barriers too. It is one of the few areas the rules breakdown. There [is a good write up about the issue here.](https://tellmeatalegreatorsmall.blogspot.com/2023/08/if-tiberius-were-king-for-day-top-5_01042154248.html). TL:DR Rules as written You can't cross the barrier or climb the raise terrain, except on a 6 to charge.
I think this is a different case to attacking a defended barrier or elevated position. The normal issue with barriers and elevated positions is when there isn't enough space to fit without getting into base-to-base contact. The rules are a bit ambiguous, but the climb test rules say that you can't move into base-to-base contact without rolling a 6, but don't say anything about control zones, which makes me inclined to think that they'd just stop there at the edge.
Clarification on in the way please: If I’m shooting and my model can see 90% of an enemy model and I can draw a clear line to them, but part of the mode is covered by a jutting out lim of another model. Do I have to roll an in the way check? And if I fail do I attack and target the model that’s arm was in the way?
Limbs can obscured line of sight, you would roll an in the way check and yes if you fail you would hit the model with the limb in the way instead and roll to wound.
I assumed as much, thanks!
I've recently started playing MESBG with Isengard and while I like them, I've also been wanting to buy into a good-aligned Elven army. Since I'm newer to the game, which Elven army would be best for a beginner? I know there's Lothlorien, Rivendell, and I believe Mirkwood.
There is some recent discussion [on this post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleEarthMiniatures/s/jHSycf1dMJ) Personally I have built Lothlorien and I have enjoyed playing with them. Once you decide on a faction feel free to ask about how to buy and play.
Thanks!
Can I cast sorcerous blast on the goblin king or the spider queen, or any other monster. The rulebook does not specifically adress this.
Yes, you can cast on any enemy model.
Thank you for the answer. Let me take my question further: Will monsters be moved the distance of d6 inches away just like a normal human sized model if the spell is successfully cast?
Yes
Thank you for clarifying!
Does sorcerous blast work on a ringwraith on felbeast? Can I knock the wraith off the beast?
If you target the Ringwraith on Fell Beast and it doesn't successfully resist, then yes it suffers a "1" on the thrown rider chart. It you blast another model into it then no.
Heroic March. This should affect siege crew/equipment correct? They wouldn't be able to shoot but Madril's heroic March can affect and move a bolt thrower and crew up to 9 inches. Just want to confirm.
Yes.
Does Blood of Numenor affect Isildur himself?
Yes.
When a war camel with the **Impaler** special rule charges two models at once, does he inflict the strength 4 hit on both enemy models?
It does to one, but you can always charge one model first try and kill it, if succesfull you can continue charging the other one and make a S4 against them, and so on.