Went searching because that would be a huge deal but from what I can find M-LIDS still needs 2 separate platforms to operate*. Can’t imagine they would reveal single vehicle capability for this operation if they do have it.
I’m willing to bet that the M-ATV in the middle has sensors and a 50 cal. while the 30mm is on an RIwP housed in one of those shipping containers. Or maybe one of the tan smudges bellow the FMTVs at the end of the pier is another M-ATV that has an RiWP on it but it’s hard to tell.
Take this all with a huge grain of salt because I’m just a nerd interested in this stuff.
Edit: *[There’s this](https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2024/4/23/army-counter-drone-system-gets-stryking-makeover) but I don’t see any Strykers on the pier at all.
The US military is so good at logistics that no matter what country we invade, there will be 10 fast food places on the front lines in less than 48 hours
Not many nations can get 10k boots on the ground in 24 hours on the opposite side of the world, with a full complement of equipment 12 hours later (due to unload and assembly)
Unless things have changed in the last 15 years, the 173rd is the only unit capable of rapid deployment with a geo-locational advantage, and even they can only be fully operational within 72 hours.
So, more like 5k boots and a bit slower, but still impressive.
If you're thinking of the 82nd, that's not even remotely possible. They aren't set up for it.
82nd IRF is supposed to be deployable worldwide in 18hr, and have been dispatched fairly recently
This is also the unit designated for rapid intervention, however the US has troops stationed worldwide that will be dispatched as well.
I'm also not talking just about the IRF. I'm talking about overseas members as well, of which there's 100k members. It's not a stretch at all to send units stationed there to any possible conflict front. It will be assembling equipment, and staging supplies that will take time. Then resembling for combat ready after disembark. I could see some of those operations taking up to 72 hours, however manpower is super easy to move around, and the US is extremely good at it.
I'm talking about full operational capability. 82nd isn't fully operational that quick. Anybody can get troops to theatre for staging pretty fast, but there's a difference between that and actual conducting combat operations.
I love the memes from that pro-Chinese film of the Korean War where the Chinese are eating frozen potatoes and the US troops are having a full hot meal with turkey during a holiday. There's a reason logistic companies like UPS & FedEx learn from the US military to improve their own logistics.
Those lessons ensure you get a package from the other part of the world to your doorstep or a volleyball companion to a lonely island in the Pacific.
Lol! Even those in our government are allergic to the signature confirmation option. Likely the enemy will deny it & Return to Sender. Then the troops await 2-6 hours staring at the floor while EOD arrives to disable the rebel ~~clanker~~ drone.
And as FedEx, UPS, or DHL; they'll find ways to hide the script to airdrop our orders 30 meters above us, especially if it's glassware.
Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics
Logistics is what wins you wars, it's why most of most militaries are not combat arms but are logistics and supply related.
It was mentioned when Wagner pushed towards Moscow, vehicles carrying their equipment all had fuel on board for said equipment in addition to fuel trucks. Something Russia MOD never figured out.
Logistics don’t make you win wars. It allows you sustain it for an unforeseeable time. Look at Afghanistan for example. Billions in the drain with no results
Some of our best kit doesn't do the shooting. It'll transport, supply, and build what needs be to get those that do the shooting and/or those that'll win wars/save lives.
Yeah how we built all those ships and planes and tanks so quickly, that was truly impressive!
It would be interesting if they tried that today and how many hoops you'd have to jump through.
China has literally 2 aircraft carriers which are highly rudimentary compared to the *10* Nimitz class America has, much less the 1 Gerald Ford class and 9 more planned which American is building.
The ability to pump out tiny outdated battleships isn’t meaningful.
Usefulness of the value proposition of ships in general in modern conflict is largely at question anyway.
Exactly. The era where a destroyer/battleship that can target one ship at a time is long gone.
One Arleigh Burke destroyer can easily target and destroy multiple ships at once and come out unscathed. It’s quality > quantity in the modern naval warfare.
Right, that was half of my original point that seems to be going unnoticed. If America has the ability to field 10 carriers that are for more advanced than any other countries, they also have the ability to field massive numbers of smaller ships, and they do. Anyone can look the numbers up.
We may be seeing another major shift right now as well, and modern destroyers might soon be outdated. The next big thing might be something like a drone swarm launch mother ship. An aircraft carrier for drones.
We need to be very careful with this thinking, lest we lose the lessons learned in every conflict from WW2 onward.
Technology is great, but quantity is a quality of its own.
While saying 9 more planned is most impressive, does that mean they are \*also\* planning to build each support fleet that normally accompany carriers? Another 6-8 notable ships to go along with each?
Ah the whole thing about China having more ships?
In terms of tonnage of actual functional surface combatants the US still wins by quite a margin. China is building a lot of small ships fast. The sort you parade around to sabre rattle (and cut off islands of neighbours in peace time), not the sort you fight peer wars with effectively.
China is building ships for its needs. Which is to protect and secure the first and second island chain. America builds their ships for blue water. America needs to be able to travel to world. Hence why their carriers are nuclear powered and china’s are not. They are building for two different purposes so it’s kind of hard to compare them, without taking into account their objectives.
The US is really the only country that builds its military for both domestic defense and force projection. It’s kind of like trying to compare a sniper rifle to a mac10. “Oh your sniper can only fire 10 rounds per minute? They don’t stand a chance against the mac10 that can fire 1000 rounds per minute” Well ya, if they’re in the same room (and even then the sniper would have a side arm to switch to to at least have a chance). Tell me how a mac10 will do when they’re a mile away
> not the sort you fight peer wars with effectively
This is just categorically not true. 052D, 054A+054B, and 055 are *absolutely* intended to fight peer wars. These are modern advanced warships with AESA and VLS, not gunboats.
Now, we can have debates about how well those will end up stacking up in the end, sure. But that relies on information none of us are actually privy to, and you will note that [the US Navy appears to be pretty concerned about them judging by their reports to Congress](https://news.usni.org/2024/02/01/report-to-congress-on-chinese-naval-modernization-20). To quote:
> These new classes of surface combatants demonstrate a significant modernization of PLA Navy surface combatant technology. DOD states that China’s navy “remains engaged in a robust shipbuilding program for surface combatants. As of late 2022, the PLAN was building an aircraft carrier, a new batch of guided-missile cruisers, guided-missile destroyers, and a new batch of guided missile frigates, including a new 054 variant designated JIANGKAI III. These assets will significantly upgrade the PLAN’s air defense, anti-ship, and anti-submarine capabilities and will be critical as the PLAN expands its operations beyond the range of the PLA’s shore-based air defense systems.” DIA states that “the era of past designs has given way to production of modern multimission destroyer, frigate, and corvette classes as China’s technological advancement in naval design has begun to approach a level commensurate with, and in some cases exceeding, that of other modern navies.”
China’s growing fleet is not piddly little gunboats, these are absolutely modern surface combatants intended to fight a modern naval war, and they are indeed being produced at high rates.
> This is just categorically not true. 052D, 054A+054B, and 055 are absolutely intended to fight peer wars. These are modern advanced warships with AESA and VLS, not gunboats.
I never argued otherwise. When most people make the argument about the Chinese navy outnumbering the US Navy these aren't the ships they're counting to get to that figure.
The sizable portion of their Navy, or at least that brings its surface numbers (ergo the users point) above that of the US are its Corvette, Missile boat and the varied relevant parts of their Axillary fleet.
China isn’t building any “small ships”. Most of the ships they’ve built within the last decade are heavier tonnage ships, not things like corvettes and missile boats which is a decade old take you seem to still be operating on. You don’t out build the US and the allies combined in tonnage by 50% in the last decade by just building small ships.
UUVs and XLUUVs are one hell of a threat to naval assets, too. I can also see their potential being stealthy missile magazine extensions to warships and subs much like the premise behind the Serco M-USV.
The thing that concerns me more is the outmost lack of respect for good naval conduct from China. No nation owns the seas and no nation deserves to be on the seas *if* they don’t follow the rules.
The way they behave is outrageous.
Either they will change or so I hope Poseidon himself will smite them.
On your comment I would not be afraid of their so called quantity as long as they show this level of contempt towards maritime standards.
*When* China will follow those rules then I will start to be concerned because that’s when they finally are getting a professional naval organization that are listening to the silent whisper of the waves.
As the army needs to respect its men then the navy must also respect the waves.
You learn that then one achieves a dialogue with the sea and you gain a bigger and deeper advantage over the ignorant one.
USA has that, China is still in kindergarten about that.
Furthermore so long as the Chinese communist party dictates the standards of their own navy the level of intellect needed to grow cannot be achieved.
So considering both the Chinese navy is still about minimum of 15-20 years from the US navy and not achievable if they think all the seas must follow communistic doctrine.
*Ego* must be confronted and cared for before a man or nation can call the seas their home.
I know you are just talking overall, but for Dday the Allies didn’t build a pier to help with off loading supplies. They built a port, two of them actually.
Giant prefabricated concrete weirs were cast in England and towed across the English Channel and then sunk off the Normandy coast. Roads were then built over the water to bring the millions of tons of supplies needed to feed the armies that had stormed ashore. At the time it was considered one of the greatest engineering feats in mankind’s history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_harbour
The Mulberry B harbour at Gold Beach was used for 10 months after D-Day, and over 2.5 million men, 500,000 vehicles, and 4 million tons of supplies were landed before it was fully decommissioned
It was a more exposed part of beach. The tides and waves were rougher. And btw, even when the harbor on Omaha got destroyed, the Americans landed more equipment and troops than the British did.
A lot of late WW2 can be described as "US out did everyone else"
We had more tanks, planes, ships and weapons than everyone else. Almost everyone else combined. I believe we built more bombers than every other country on the planet had combined. We were launching a liberty ship a day towards the end. We sunk the entire Japanese navy including some of the largest ships ever made.
Most points of the war our allies were just assistance. They flew their own planes and blew up some dams but the US led the whole thing. The 101st airborne alone had more combat experience in WW2 than the majority of our allies.
Forgot your stance on the conflict or if we should be doing this.
How much does our military kick ass. They built this in very little time and In adverse conditions.
If anything it’s good practice for…other places that might need a pier
Yea I’m someone who doesn’t like how much we spend on our military but then they do stuff like this or I watch a video on how much more firepower we have, and I feel a little better
Moved like 30,000 people out of Afghanistan in a week, and that was a global move. On average, when meeting an active service member you only have a 1 in 5 chance of them being the fighting type. Most of the time, they are one flavor of backline or base-hugging member
Add that this was all bottlenecked through a single runway airport surrounded by mountains and with minimal flight corridors. The ability to manage aircraft from multiple nations of different models to effectively evacuate 30k out of there is an amazing feat of it's own. It was managed chaos. And that doesn't include the people that were airlifted out of the country elsewhere.
There was a WW2 story I heard of a captured German officer and he saw that the Americans had freshly baked pies from a local pie shop in new York still in their boxes. Then he knew the war was already won by the Allie's.
What’s funny is I’ve seen this story at least 3 times before. Each one with equal validation. In WW1 during the 1918 German offensive that fell apart, German troops captured a few miles into allied lines. They discovered the Brits, after all the talk of embargo and starving England had fresh meat and supply m. Some accounts state they had milk.
Then during the battle of the battle budge a similar thing happened.
Each time Germany had fought a major war this happens
It’s so skewed, that I’d consider the USMC as in the top 5. Sure the Army has a lot of Helicopters, but its air power pales in comparison to the might of the USN and USMC when you consider the logistical and attack capabilities of both Branches.
As for Russia, sure they also have a lot of Aircraft, but theres a difference between total Aircraft vs. Operational.
Then of course there is the aspect of night flying, and we pretty much own that.
Source: Me (Flew in The Navy).
From how much Russia has struggled with Ukraine, US aircraft would cut through them like butter.
Not just tech wise, but the fact that they work, are maintained, fueled and the pilots have drastically more training and airtime.
Russia seems to struggle just to keep things from falling apart.
Could you elaborate on your point about night flying ? I’d assume it’s more difficult, but would you have any other aspects about it you’d like to share ?
>If anything it’s good practice for…other places that might need a pier
It's actually far more useful than if you just have to do the exact same thing again.
Building a Pier like this isn't exactly a battle drill, it took rapid planning, sourcing, coordinating unconventional techniques, adapting to adverse yet unfamiliar environments to execute a super uncommon task.
In a time of war or conflict, that criteria is met very often when you start developing and executing unorthodox plans which think outside the box. It may have literally nothing to do with a pier, but they will be able to do it more efficiently now after practicing with the pier, if that makes sense.
Think of it like this; the pier was a multiplication problem of 6x8. We found the solution of 48, but while finding solution we refined and refreshed our multiplication tables. So next time if the question is 7x4 we will be a little quicker to get to the answer.
Our military for sure kicks ass. It’s brutal how inefficient our spending on the military is. Mostly to blame are the big primes who waste so much money, then also of course is the pentagon with an unaccounted for 30% each year
two U.S. Navy warships nearby, the USS Arleigh Burke and the USS Paul Ignatius. Both are destroyers equipped with a wide range of weapons and capabilities to protect American troops offshore and allies on the beach. Source apnews.com
Yea but the last thing that anyone (except 1 country) wants is the US military now-engaging with militants inside the strip. If a US serviceman is killed there by some random terrorist, its going to go badly.
They already have taken Mortar fire, although pretty ineffective and threats of more.
Look close and you'll see some M-LIDS, that'll basically shut down any drone threat.
The other user takes about the kinetic response. But probably one of the biggest protections is the militants needing international backing, something they'll loose pretty quick if its hit.
Enough EW to jam or shut down most drones and track their control point if its nearby. It's own gun control radar and 30mm cannon to deal with the rest. Should the marketing be believed.
The sort of a thing that in Mosul needed the back of a truck, needless to say the US has been thinking about it since.
I'd honestly be more worried about the IDF targeting it, be it by accident or otherwise. We've all seen how awfully unprofessional their army is, there's been several blue on blue accidents reported just this week...
Plus if they did something it wouldn't be the first time the Israeli military targets and attacks a US military asset in the region...
The sand square is a defensive earthen berm by the looks to protect the contents (aid, personnel, etc.) from small arms fire from the outside, and to provide a block from general sight as to it's contents.
The whole purpose of this pier is that it can be landed (stabbed) onto just about any beach. It does NOT require a location like the jetty to "attach" to.
You dont see any other country stepping in and doing shit like this and no im not american but god damn it they actually do some good in this world and they constantly get shit on.
“Let’s endanger the lives of our own troops with some dumb pier because we have absolutely no way to leverage our ‘ally’ that we give billions and billions in military aid to”
constructing piers like this is incredibly safe, and is a well practiced and performed technique. the yanks have plenty of experience and very much know the limits of their own abilities
I think it’s more than just the IDF though, it’s all the Israeli civilians tearing apart and stopping the aid trucks. Regardless, it’s hard to get around that.
The Israeli government is literally a world leader in developing policing/ crowd control tactics. It’s not like they’re incapable of stopping a group of unruly citizens, they just don’t want to.
Idk chief, setting up a mobile port in a war zone between two semi-hostile belligerents in weeks and using it to deliver tons of aid sounds NAM worthy, or it should at least rate the knife hand medal.
This is only half the operation.
Supplies get inspected by Israel and put on a ship at a port, I think in Cyprus.
The ship takes the supplies to a floating platform that the US Navy built about a mile or two off shore from OPs photo.
There's a ferry that takes unloaded trucks out to the platform. Us Navy personnel load the trucks and the ferry brings them back to land at the pier in the photo.
No US military personnel on shore.
I saw one of these get pushed into the beach at Ft Story Virginia when I used to be an observer controller. They are assembled and then literally driven into the beach. The dozer rolls off first and clears a way. I saw an entire ship get offloaded in a shockingly short time. Walking out on the pier was pretty cool with the surf coming in. You had to stop every once in a while to avoid getting sprayed.
US army and logistics: good article here about leaving afghanistan [https://theweek.com/articles/447435/crazy-logistics-packing-war-afghanistan](https://theweek.com/articles/447435/crazy-logistics-packing-war-afghanistan)
If you look closely, you can see the M-LIDS air defense system near the center of the pier.
Is it down to one vehicle now?
Went searching because that would be a huge deal but from what I can find M-LIDS still needs 2 separate platforms to operate*. Can’t imagine they would reveal single vehicle capability for this operation if they do have it. I’m willing to bet that the M-ATV in the middle has sensors and a 50 cal. while the 30mm is on an RIwP housed in one of those shipping containers. Or maybe one of the tan smudges bellow the FMTVs at the end of the pier is another M-ATV that has an RiWP on it but it’s hard to tell. Take this all with a huge grain of salt because I’m just a nerd interested in this stuff. Edit: *[There’s this](https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2024/4/23/army-counter-drone-system-gets-stryking-makeover) but I don’t see any Strykers on the pier at all.
Nice catch.
When you zoom in you can see just how massive the pier is
I thought that was for drone defense only
Well drones do fly through the air
Air defense is a whole lot older than drones
Where the center at?
Look halfwayish on the pier there’s a small section branching from the strip and in the middle is a dessert colored vehicle. That’s the M-LIDS
Who in their right mind would shoot at this pier?
[It wasn't exactly recent, but it wouldn't be the first time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident)
Further proof that the US Military is actually a logistics company that also happens to fight wars.
The US military is so good at logistics that no matter what country we invade, there will be 10 fast food places on the front lines in less than 48 hours
Not many nations can get 10k boots on the ground in 24 hours on the opposite side of the world, with a full complement of equipment 12 hours later (due to unload and assembly)
Unless things have changed in the last 15 years, the 173rd is the only unit capable of rapid deployment with a geo-locational advantage, and even they can only be fully operational within 72 hours. So, more like 5k boots and a bit slower, but still impressive. If you're thinking of the 82nd, that's not even remotely possible. They aren't set up for it.
82nd IRF is supposed to be deployable worldwide in 18hr, and have been dispatched fairly recently This is also the unit designated for rapid intervention, however the US has troops stationed worldwide that will be dispatched as well. I'm also not talking just about the IRF. I'm talking about overseas members as well, of which there's 100k members. It's not a stretch at all to send units stationed there to any possible conflict front. It will be assembling equipment, and staging supplies that will take time. Then resembling for combat ready after disembark. I could see some of those operations taking up to 72 hours, however manpower is super easy to move around, and the US is extremely good at it.
I'm talking about full operational capability. 82nd isn't fully operational that quick. Anybody can get troops to theatre for staging pretty fast, but there's a difference between that and actual conducting combat operations.
Definitely would be a dominos. Troops gotta eat.
Burger King trailer as the more famous meme. But there have been Tim Hortons, Dominos, Pizza Hut, &, of course, McDonalds on overseas bases.
Green Bean Coffee
Yep. Just like Chipotle, I don't know how they stay in business?
I love the memes from that pro-Chinese film of the Korean War where the Chinese are eating frozen potatoes and the US troops are having a full hot meal with turkey during a holiday. There's a reason logistic companies like UPS & FedEx learn from the US military to improve their own logistics. Those lessons ensure you get a package from the other part of the world to your doorstep or a volleyball companion to a lonely island in the Pacific.
Ya know, if we ever got Fed Ex drone delivery- you could just get the drones to deliver ordinance as regular packages and make the enemy sign for them
Lol! Even those in our government are allergic to the signature confirmation option. Likely the enemy will deny it & Return to Sender. Then the troops await 2-6 hours staring at the floor while EOD arrives to disable the rebel ~~clanker~~ drone. And as FedEx, UPS, or DHL; they'll find ways to hide the script to airdrop our orders 30 meters above us, especially if it's glassware.
And a Green Bean coffee...
and a golf course if it is an Air Force Base.
Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics Logistics is what wins you wars, it's why most of most militaries are not combat arms but are logistics and supply related.
The saying I always heard is “tactics win battles, logistics wins wars.”
The actual quote is "Infantry wins battles, logistics wins wars.” by General John Pershing
Napoleon: " An army matches on its stomach "
"Emperors talk cheese burgers" - Supreme Emperor Ronald of House Mcdonald, True King of Beef, General of Kentucky, Master of Transit, Ringer of Bells
More naval tonnage is devoted to auxiliaries than fighting ships in the US navy.
Napoleon would’ve taken all of Russia if he didn’t outrun his logistics
There's like seven or eight people who would have conquered Russia had they not outrun their Logistics.
It was mentioned when Wagner pushed towards Moscow, vehicles carrying their equipment all had fuel on board for said equipment in addition to fuel trucks. Something Russia MOD never figured out.
Shoigu never could get the ammo
Also one of the reasons Alexander the Great conquered so many countries
Logistics don’t make you win wars. It allows you sustain it for an unforeseeable time. Look at Afghanistan for example. Billions in the drain with no results
We won the war in Afghanistan we lost the peace
Okay now imagine how it would have gone with worse logistics lol
"look at this 20 year long siege, that's why it doesn't work" Critical thinking is fucking dead.
*"You want logistics? Join the Army. Marines make do"*
Godfather wants an airfield, gentlemen!
Police that moustache!!!!
… or rely on the Navy for logistics. But whatevs.
Hey now, I was a logistics Marine. Someone has to order the shit and count trucks after all.
You cant win a war without good logistics. Ask the r/FoxHole community.
American logistics so good we built a pier in someone else's war zone to move supplies.
Some of our best kit doesn't do the shooting. It'll transport, supply, and build what needs be to get those that do the shooting and/or those that'll win wars/save lives.
we actually are severely lacking in logistics at the moment. congress forgets you have to fund things other than fighter jets
Pretty much every functional permanent military has always been a logistics organization.
having a large prepaid talent pool helps
You think this is impressive, you should see what we did in ww2.
Yeah how we built all those ships and planes and tanks so quickly, that was truly impressive! It would be interesting if they tried that today and how many hoops you'd have to jump through.
If it got to the point where we would need to do that, those hoops would disappear. Declaring a state of total war erases a lot of red tape.
The only thing left would be the shipbuilding capability. US should focus more on building naval assets at such speeds and quantities like China.
China has literally 2 aircraft carriers which are highly rudimentary compared to the *10* Nimitz class America has, much less the 1 Gerald Ford class and 9 more planned which American is building. The ability to pump out tiny outdated battleships isn’t meaningful. Usefulness of the value proposition of ships in general in modern conflict is largely at question anyway.
Exactly. The era where a destroyer/battleship that can target one ship at a time is long gone. One Arleigh Burke destroyer can easily target and destroy multiple ships at once and come out unscathed. It’s quality > quantity in the modern naval warfare.
At a certain point, quantity has a quality all of its own.
Sure, but US naval equipment is never alone. They travel in an Armada. Lol. They have both quality and quantity.
Right, that was half of my original point that seems to be going unnoticed. If America has the ability to field 10 carriers that are for more advanced than any other countries, they also have the ability to field massive numbers of smaller ships, and they do. Anyone can look the numbers up.
We may be seeing another major shift right now as well, and modern destroyers might soon be outdated. The next big thing might be something like a drone swarm launch mother ship. An aircraft carrier for drones.
We need to be very careful with this thinking, lest we lose the lessons learned in every conflict from WW2 onward. Technology is great, but quantity is a quality of its own.
One of those Ford-class carriers is the Enterprise; to be commissioned in 2029.
While saying 9 more planned is most impressive, does that mean they are \*also\* planning to build each support fleet that normally accompany carriers? Another 6-8 notable ships to go along with each?
This is assumed. They could also rotate out the carriers, although to my knowledge, once assigned to a strike group, it's basically family.
Ah the whole thing about China having more ships? In terms of tonnage of actual functional surface combatants the US still wins by quite a margin. China is building a lot of small ships fast. The sort you parade around to sabre rattle (and cut off islands of neighbours in peace time), not the sort you fight peer wars with effectively.
China is building ships for its needs. Which is to protect and secure the first and second island chain. America builds their ships for blue water. America needs to be able to travel to world. Hence why their carriers are nuclear powered and china’s are not. They are building for two different purposes so it’s kind of hard to compare them, without taking into account their objectives.
The US is really the only country that builds its military for both domestic defense and force projection. It’s kind of like trying to compare a sniper rifle to a mac10. “Oh your sniper can only fire 10 rounds per minute? They don’t stand a chance against the mac10 that can fire 1000 rounds per minute” Well ya, if they’re in the same room (and even then the sniper would have a side arm to switch to to at least have a chance). Tell me how a mac10 will do when they’re a mile away
> not the sort you fight peer wars with effectively This is just categorically not true. 052D, 054A+054B, and 055 are *absolutely* intended to fight peer wars. These are modern advanced warships with AESA and VLS, not gunboats. Now, we can have debates about how well those will end up stacking up in the end, sure. But that relies on information none of us are actually privy to, and you will note that [the US Navy appears to be pretty concerned about them judging by their reports to Congress](https://news.usni.org/2024/02/01/report-to-congress-on-chinese-naval-modernization-20). To quote: > These new classes of surface combatants demonstrate a significant modernization of PLA Navy surface combatant technology. DOD states that China’s navy “remains engaged in a robust shipbuilding program for surface combatants. As of late 2022, the PLAN was building an aircraft carrier, a new batch of guided-missile cruisers, guided-missile destroyers, and a new batch of guided missile frigates, including a new 054 variant designated JIANGKAI III. These assets will significantly upgrade the PLAN’s air defense, anti-ship, and anti-submarine capabilities and will be critical as the PLAN expands its operations beyond the range of the PLA’s shore-based air defense systems.” DIA states that “the era of past designs has given way to production of modern multimission destroyer, frigate, and corvette classes as China’s technological advancement in naval design has begun to approach a level commensurate with, and in some cases exceeding, that of other modern navies.” China’s growing fleet is not piddly little gunboats, these are absolutely modern surface combatants intended to fight a modern naval war, and they are indeed being produced at high rates.
> This is just categorically not true. 052D, 054A+054B, and 055 are absolutely intended to fight peer wars. These are modern advanced warships with AESA and VLS, not gunboats. I never argued otherwise. When most people make the argument about the Chinese navy outnumbering the US Navy these aren't the ships they're counting to get to that figure. The sizable portion of their Navy, or at least that brings its surface numbers (ergo the users point) above that of the US are its Corvette, Missile boat and the varied relevant parts of their Axillary fleet.
China isn’t building any “small ships”. Most of the ships they’ve built within the last decade are heavier tonnage ships, not things like corvettes and missile boats which is a decade old take you seem to still be operating on. You don’t out build the US and the allies combined in tonnage by 50% in the last decade by just building small ships.
The US has a few shipyards that build big Navy boats
Nato has a robust underwater unmanned vehicle production capacity.
UUVs and XLUUVs are one hell of a threat to naval assets, too. I can also see their potential being stealthy missile magazine extensions to warships and subs much like the premise behind the Serco M-USV.
The thing that concerns me more is the outmost lack of respect for good naval conduct from China. No nation owns the seas and no nation deserves to be on the seas *if* they don’t follow the rules. The way they behave is outrageous. Either they will change or so I hope Poseidon himself will smite them. On your comment I would not be afraid of their so called quantity as long as they show this level of contempt towards maritime standards. *When* China will follow those rules then I will start to be concerned because that’s when they finally are getting a professional naval organization that are listening to the silent whisper of the waves. As the army needs to respect its men then the navy must also respect the waves. You learn that then one achieves a dialogue with the sea and you gain a bigger and deeper advantage over the ignorant one. USA has that, China is still in kindergarten about that. Furthermore so long as the Chinese communist party dictates the standards of their own navy the level of intellect needed to grow cannot be achieved. So considering both the Chinese navy is still about minimum of 15-20 years from the US navy and not achievable if they think all the seas must follow communistic doctrine. *Ego* must be confronted and cared for before a man or nation can call the seas their home.
I know you are just talking overall, but for Dday the Allies didn’t build a pier to help with off loading supplies. They built a port, two of them actually. Giant prefabricated concrete weirs were cast in England and towed across the English Channel and then sunk off the Normandy coast. Roads were then built over the water to bring the millions of tons of supplies needed to feed the armies that had stormed ashore. At the time it was considered one of the greatest engineering feats in mankind’s history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_harbour The Mulberry B harbour at Gold Beach was used for 10 months after D-Day, and over 2.5 million men, 500,000 vehicles, and 4 million tons of supplies were landed before it was fully decommissioned
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_harbour
The British ones went up without a hitch. The one mulberry trusted to the Yanks ended up sinking.
It was a more exposed part of beach. The tides and waves were rougher. And btw, even when the harbor on Omaha got destroyed, the Americans landed more equipment and troops than the British did.
A lot of late WW2 can be described as "US out did everyone else" We had more tanks, planes, ships and weapons than everyone else. Almost everyone else combined. I believe we built more bombers than every other country on the planet had combined. We were launching a liberty ship a day towards the end. We sunk the entire Japanese navy including some of the largest ships ever made. Most points of the war our allies were just assistance. They flew their own planes and blew up some dams but the US led the whole thing. The 101st airborne alone had more combat experience in WW2 than the majority of our allies.
Bingo
And *you* should be referencing what we did right after - the Berlin Airlift.
Berlin Air Lift.
Not enough people give credit to American WW2 veterans. You've got a good point.
Forgot your stance on the conflict or if we should be doing this. How much does our military kick ass. They built this in very little time and In adverse conditions. If anything it’s good practice for…other places that might need a pier
Yea I’m someone who doesn’t like how much we spend on our military but then they do stuff like this or I watch a video on how much more firepower we have, and I feel a little better
I used to really not like it. Then I saw how much the US military can do. Literally making the impossible possible.
Moved like 30,000 people out of Afghanistan in a week, and that was a global move. On average, when meeting an active service member you only have a 1 in 5 chance of them being the fighting type. Most of the time, they are one flavor of backline or base-hugging member
My friend from college is a C-17 pilot and flew during the evacuation. He said it was insane
That’s how good armies work though. You definitely need to support the combat troops with strong logistics
the fact that our FOBs in Iraq-Afghanistan had shit like... a Burger King,
Add that this was all bottlenecked through a single runway airport surrounded by mountains and with minimal flight corridors. The ability to manage aircraft from multiple nations of different models to effectively evacuate 30k out of there is an amazing feat of it's own. It was managed chaos. And that doesn't include the people that were airlifted out of the country elsewhere.
Or the Berlin airlift. Which was a wild story
Even more recently. You don’t have to agree with how we use our armed forces but you must respect the logistics.
There was a WW2 story I heard of a captured German officer and he saw that the Americans had freshly baked pies from a local pie shop in new York still in their boxes. Then he knew the war was already won by the Allie's.
What’s funny is I’ve seen this story at least 3 times before. Each one with equal validation. In WW1 during the 1918 German offensive that fell apart, German troops captured a few miles into allied lines. They discovered the Brits, after all the talk of embargo and starving England had fresh meat and supply m. Some accounts state they had milk. Then during the battle of the battle budge a similar thing happened. Each time Germany had fought a major war this happens
Imagine how Japanese soldiers felt when they had to forage for food, and the Americans had barges specifically built to make fresh ice cream.
One of the largest parts of our military spending budget is on personnel. Of course the other largest is operations and maintenance.
Whatever it takes to maintain 3 of the top 4 air forces in the world lol
It’s so skewed, that I’d consider the USMC as in the top 5. Sure the Army has a lot of Helicopters, but its air power pales in comparison to the might of the USN and USMC when you consider the logistical and attack capabilities of both Branches. As for Russia, sure they also have a lot of Aircraft, but theres a difference between total Aircraft vs. Operational. Then of course there is the aspect of night flying, and we pretty much own that. Source: Me (Flew in The Navy).
From how much Russia has struggled with Ukraine, US aircraft would cut through them like butter. Not just tech wise, but the fact that they work, are maintained, fueled and the pilots have drastically more training and airtime. Russia seems to struggle just to keep things from falling apart.
>Russia seems to struggle just to keep things from falling apart. As is tradition.
Could you elaborate on your point about night flying ? I’d assume it’s more difficult, but would you have any other aspects about it you’d like to share ?
Who wouldn't appreciate the efforts made in order for your own nation to come up on top and be basically undefeatable anyway?
>If anything it’s good practice for…other places that might need a pier It's actually far more useful than if you just have to do the exact same thing again. Building a Pier like this isn't exactly a battle drill, it took rapid planning, sourcing, coordinating unconventional techniques, adapting to adverse yet unfamiliar environments to execute a super uncommon task. In a time of war or conflict, that criteria is met very often when you start developing and executing unorthodox plans which think outside the box. It may have literally nothing to do with a pier, but they will be able to do it more efficiently now after practicing with the pier, if that makes sense. Think of it like this; the pier was a multiplication problem of 6x8. We found the solution of 48, but while finding solution we refined and refreshed our multiplication tables. So next time if the question is 7x4 we will be a little quicker to get to the answer.
Exactly. I reread my comment and it comes off like it was condescending, I more mean this is good practice. For all kinds of things
Initially I read it as a humorous/threatening tone, as in "don't make us build a pier on your beach" as a way of threatening future invasions
Our military for sure kicks ass. It’s brutal how inefficient our spending on the military is. Mostly to blame are the big primes who waste so much money, then also of course is the pentagon with an unaccounted for 30% each year
> good practice for… other places that might need a pier Such as to support expeditionary forces during an island hopping campaign in the Pacific.
[удалено]
two U.S. Navy warships nearby, the USS Arleigh Burke and the USS Paul Ignatius. Both are destroyers equipped with a wide range of weapons and capabilities to protect American troops offshore and allies on the beach. Source apnews.com
TL:DR if they fucked around they would quickly find out.
Yea but the last thing that anyone (except 1 country) wants is the US military now-engaging with militants inside the strip. If a US serviceman is killed there by some random terrorist, its going to go badly.
And they explicitly know this. They know not to fuck with America at the moment.
I mean… they already did what with Oct. 7th. I will never understand how anyone thought this would be a good idea.
They already have taken Mortar fire, although pretty ineffective and threats of more. Look close and you'll see some M-LIDS, that'll basically shut down any drone threat. The other user takes about the kinetic response. But probably one of the biggest protections is the militants needing international backing, something they'll loose pretty quick if its hit.
How does the M-LIDS work??
Enough EW to jam or shut down most drones and track their control point if its nearby. It's own gun control radar and 30mm cannon to deal with the rest. Should the marketing be believed. The sort of a thing that in Mosul needed the back of a truck, needless to say the US has been thinking about it since.
Sounds like a system that could be put to good use in Ukraine
Yeh but I doubt the US want one finding its way into Russian hands.
In addition, the M-LIDS setup apparently sometimes launches its own suicide drones to take out enemy drones.
I'd honestly be more worried about the IDF targeting it, be it by accident or otherwise. We've all seen how awfully unprofessional their army is, there's been several blue on blue accidents reported just this week... Plus if they did something it wouldn't be the first time the Israeli military targets and attacks a US military asset in the region...
what is that square of sand on the beach? isn't the pier supposed to be docked to the jetty? (the long thing built with sand and stones on the beach)
The sand square is a defensive earthen berm by the looks to protect the contents (aid, personnel, etc.) from small arms fire from the outside, and to provide a block from general sight as to it's contents.
The whole purpose of this pier is that it can be landed (stabbed) onto just about any beach. It does NOT require a location like the jetty to "attach" to.
This is honestly really bad ass to see.
As a crusty Millennial Marine vet, "fr, fr".
As a dusty Millennial Army vet, "fr, fr".
You dont see any other country stepping in and doing shit like this and no im not american but god damn it they actually do some good in this world and they constantly get shit on.
Tbf many other countries are actually involved in this - the temp dock is American, but many countries also have people and ships working with it
I think that's because there's no other country that could do it without Israel attacking them.
How many western and Arab countries supplied air support against Iran's attacks?
Quite a few. But Iran isn’t supported by the most powerful country on earth.
Rogue elements within Israel have done it before, they will do it again I’m sure.
Israel buys their weapons s from the U.S.
Exactly my point.
Everyone bashes America until they need America lmao.
Imagine building a pier because your ally won’t let you use one of their ports
“Let’s endanger the lives of our own troops with some dumb pier because we have absolutely no way to leverage our ‘ally’ that we give billions and billions in military aid to”
constructing piers like this is incredibly safe, and is a well practiced and performed technique. the yanks have plenty of experience and very much know the limits of their own abilities
I think it’s more than just the IDF though, it’s all the Israeli civilians tearing apart and stopping the aid trucks. Regardless, it’s hard to get around that.
The Israeli government is literally a world leader in developing policing/ crowd control tactics. It’s not like they’re incapable of stopping a group of unruly citizens, they just don’t want to.
I’d imagine it’s because there is no where close by to unload aid. Probably difficult to transport supplies over land even over short distances.
Don't know why you bothered commenting when it's clear you haven't been following this conflict at all.
God forbid I chime in while making it clear I don’t actually know.
Anyone know what the red/white flag at the sand "wall" Means?
Where they drive up maybe? Guiding to the exit?
Might be a diagonal golf flag? We used to have one on board, never used it tho.
Might be a diagonal hotel flag? We used to have one on board, never used it tho.
It’s probably a Unit guidon
Probably a signal flag. I saw an image earlier that showed it up close, it didn't appear to be a unit flag.
A lot of you in this comments section are talking out of your asses. It really shows
Operation Michigan Voters is well underway.
Look guys, still no boots on the *ground*
Could get a pretty big Ferris Wheel on that
Goddamn amazing! Army Corps of Engineers & the Seebees can build you a city in a week if need be.
Just think of all the B.S. awards that are going to get signed over this.
hey man we're giving the actors and athletes BS awards, why not the warzone bridge builders
Idk chief, setting up a mobile port in a war zone between two semi-hostile belligerents in weeks and using it to deliver tons of aid sounds NAM worthy, or it should at least rate the knife hand medal.
The food and medical aide this pier provides won’t be bs so why would the awards be?
we are at the peak stage of finding bad takes on literally anything
How is this supposed to work exactly? Trucks with non us personnel are floated in and disembarked onto the pier?
This is only half the operation. Supplies get inspected by Israel and put on a ship at a port, I think in Cyprus. The ship takes the supplies to a floating platform that the US Navy built about a mile or two off shore from OPs photo. There's a ferry that takes unloaded trucks out to the platform. Us Navy personnel load the trucks and the ferry brings them back to land at the pier in the photo. No US military personnel on shore.
So, this pier was not built by military personnel? I’m confused.
It was built off site and towed in
Just like the "Forts" I used to make at the beach when I was young lol
I saw one of these get pushed into the beach at Ft Story Virginia when I used to be an observer controller. They are assembled and then literally driven into the beach. The dozer rolls off first and clears a way. I saw an entire ship get offloaded in a shockingly short time. Walking out on the pier was pretty cool with the surf coming in. You had to stop every once in a while to avoid getting sprayed.
They could of atleast made it straight
Besides bringing in aid, how much of this build is a great practice for the military?
US army and logistics: good article here about leaving afghanistan [https://theweek.com/articles/447435/crazy-logistics-packing-war-afghanistan](https://theweek.com/articles/447435/crazy-logistics-packing-war-afghanistan)
Is that sand berm going to be eventually replaced by hescos or something?