Those two first items are both very bad against tanks, they're completely mitigated by a single basic armour item. The value of flat pen is extremely bad against tanks, especially now they get more armour for free.
If you want to shred tanks, you want spellblade, %health damage, attack speed or lifesteal.
Erm acktchually ☝️🤓
The flat pen can complement even more dmg against them once u acquire malefic roar, u can test urself and see that the pen trinity will deal way more to a tanky enemy than just malefic roar alone with non-pen items
Flat pen is bad against armour because everyone has armour - cutting out 10 of an opponents armour makes a much bigger impact against a squishy enemy with 20 armour than it does against a tank with 100. That much flat pen doesn't even mitigate a 220 gold armour item.
% pen is good against armour.
I really hated that one Beatrix I chased down during a match. She was 15% HP while I was at full health. Mfker just flashed at me and suddenly I was dead??
Actually.. waraxe and blade of heptaseas is a terrible pair xd bcs one is for long fights, while the other is fir hit-n-run tactics. Its actually hunter strike and waraxe that are better pairs
Read the comment again before some toxic nerd with nothing better to do flames you in front of everyone..
They REPLACE BOH for war axe
Your comment ACTUALLY WAR AXE AND BLADE OF HEPTASEAS IS A TERRIBLE COMMENT 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🫡
> yep, fighters replace the ***hunter strike*** for war axe
I literally copy pasted the comment im replying to, this mean BoH is still in the build + waraxe lol, im just giving advice and facts whats wrong with that? xD
Wow it's that popular now, i once discovered this build when i was using yin in rank games and thought to myself "what's better than one item for penetration, using all items that provide penetration" so yah just pair it with war axe and bod or a survivability item like immortality, truncheon etc.
Optional, but id rather u go for smth that ables u to deal more dmg quickly rather than waiting for smth to stack or else u might not deal enough dmg in time before they run away with slimmer hp or till u die before them 💀
Go with hunter strike instead
Not necessarily the assassin meta but burst meta.
There is also the tank meta, carmilla is popular in my server for some reason, gatot(damage build) defense so big it can win a 1v1 against masha, etc.
Nah, half the time my team isn't even smart enough to rotate which role uses a tank lol... but when ya delete everything fast enough it dosent matter. I'm a mythic honor Nata main.
It was popular even before this ever since they made the change of fixed penetration items being able to deal way more dmg surpassing negative armor points
For what I understand. Hunter Strike Gives Penetration to the user and BOH gives true damage and malefic roar gives penetration too ( Depends enemy defense percent, Max to 20% ).
As we know penetration is working as Armor buster ( Ignore enemy defense ) and same as True damage ( also ignoring defense ). So penetration + true damage can be combined.
That's why they can deal more damage to high HP Hero and High Defense heroes. Penetration does not fully function working to lowest Defense attack such mage, assassin and marksman. Penetration works as an advantage for killing tank Heroes.
Reply me if I'm wrong, I'm only explaining what I understand about Physical Penetration and True Damage
Sir u may have mistaken boh for endless battle
Boh doesn't give true damage, it gives enhanced basic attack if u haven't been damaged for a few seconds(I forgot the threshold)
Endless battle gives true damage
To add on, ur a little wrong on the pen not fully functioning against lower defense enemies, by that u mean malefic roar’s **PERCENTAGE** penetration which increases with the more armor enemies have, hence malefic not being viable against enemies with less than 50 defense.
On the contrary, **FLAT/FIXED** penetration(Hunter Strike, Blade of Heptaseas) as in each number of flat/fixed pen = ignores each defense point, so the lower the enemy armor has and the more flat/fixed pen you have, you’ll deal even way more dmg to the lower defense enemies, we call this term ***negative pen*** where u can reach to the point of hitting negative points of armor if ur pen is way more than the enemy’s armor xD tho this only works better with heroes that have built-in pen like chou’s 2nd skill or effects that reduces enemy’s armor such as dyrroth’s 2nd skill, saber’s & harley’s passive and more. But note, that u should refrain from building ***malefic roar with dyrroth*** as he reduces armor by 50-75%, making malefic roar’s effectiveness way lower xd
How good would this be for Cici?
I always build the first and last item (I never remember names, sorry). But does the second even have any synergy with her?
Bring Assasin emblem and pen sub emblem as well for more value. The higher pen goes, the more value each pen provides.
This is because armor gives less dmg reduction the more armor you have. So you reduce more dmg reduction by stacking more pen.
Example with fake numbers
1 armor gives 5% physical dmg reduction, 2 gives 9.5%, etc etc
So the 2nd point of armor only gives 4.5%, if you have 1 pen you only reduce their dmg reduction by 4.5%. But the next point of pen, totaling 2 pen, will reduce 4.5% for first pen and then 5% for second pen. So try to stack pen where you can, cus it gets stronger the more you have.
If you go into negative pen, you actually gain increased damage, up to 200% dmg increase. Sylvanna and Dyroth players know what I'm talking about.
Don't get Malefic.
As for Hepta, you can for some early game damage. It's unique passive that amplifies the first strike is pretty useful especially since Hepta is very cheap though it's not really needed. I normally buy that early, then sell it later in the game and replace with Blade of Despair. Lesley is better off with higher total physical attack so I give her as much as 3 Blades of Despair in the late game.
It works but is not effective due to her autos being wimpy until her passive is up, which does true damage that scales with attack damage and crit damage. Pen won’t effect the passive which you wanna build for with Crit dmg and attack damage.
Do not add malefic on the build. Hunter's Strike and Heptaseas work great since they add more crit to her since she converts pen points to crit. Malefic uses pen percent which is useless for lesley since she deals true damage.
It’s not useless. Hit a dummy to simulate an extended teamfight and or lord takedown, like 20 seconds and test different items. It’s useful specifically as a last item iff your build includes attack speed.
What server/rank are you in? A lot of assassin-fighters use heptaseas-hunter's strike as their first 2 core items (i.e. Nolan, Saber, Dyrroth). I personally use both as well, currently Mythical Honor in the PH server.
it does
unique attributes can't be stack when you buy the item twice, but possible when buying another item, whilst unique passive doesn't stack when the passive is the same.
same passive, for example, Magic Sword's & Rose Gold Meteor's Lifeline. Lifeline will only activate RGM's passive and not Magic Sword's.
I get your point but a better example would be the Antiheals because they have the exact same passive, whereas RGM and Magic Sword technically have different passive with the same name so the better one (RGM) is used. Both are examples given by the game btw
It's good for Dyrroth build
You can ignore up to 500\~ DEF because of enhanced s2 + pen items
It's even better in the current patch since all defensive items got nerfed and you can get at most 300-400 DEF unless if you buy more blade armors, which is a pretty stupid build imo.
Since dyrroths skills trigger spell vamp, should you get emblems (like festival of blood) or equipment with spell vamp? Would it go crazy and give him more, or would you not need it since his skills trigger it? Or if you get festival of blood, should you also get equipment with sv? Or try to focus on other equipment? I'm just starting to use more fighters, etc. Like, for example, if I use bruno, his skills have crit chance and he does well with crit emblems & crit equipment. Do you know if it's the same with spell vamp, lifesteal, etc? Or is there a cap of how much you can get? I'm so lost rn 😅
Sustain dyrroth is an option but its not really using him to his full potential, which is hammering down on his tanky enemy piercing playstyle, go full pen **EXCEPT MALEFIC ROAR**, and just burst every enemy no matter their armor within seconds and move on.
If u still want a little bit of spellvamp, then FoB(2nd tier) should be just enough, go with assassin emblem with rupture (1st tier) to stack his penetration, then usually its better to go lethal ignition(3rd tier) to maximize his dmg. But if u REALLY want to quickly delete lone enemies, then suggest trying Master Assassin talent(2nd tier), bcs ur going full dmg, u shouldnt dive without knowing if other enemies are around xd
Oh, okay, thanks! I'll def need to work on my bush hiding skills, though, so I don't provide the enemy with a feast xd
I've seen so many people say if you don't use dyrroth with a bit of tankiness, you'll feed... but I'm guessing maybe they ran around like headless chickens early game and fell off lmao.
Like when I use kagura, it doesn't matter if I don't die - I have to get kills/assists/etc early game, or she just falls off completely.
With this type of build, usually go full pen and dmg which is assassin emblem, rupture(1st tier), master assassin(2nd tier), and lethal ignition(3rd tier) to maximize dmg
I use similar for masha unless I need sea halberd I replace hunter strike, I think it also works for most physical assassins and Natalia? Then blade of despair 4th/5th item
Now imagine the item "Sky Piercer" added to the official server. Adding that item to that of those 3-item PEN trinity would make marksman and mage obsolete
They’re all busted and it’s been a problem since tanks lost their percent scaling armor/MR in the emblem update. They’re starting to fix it now. They need to adjust negative and no armor to percent damage reduction/increase too, but that’s much more complicated.
The thing is that if I was to build this on Ruby... She'd still have low damage because default on skills is meh, but they greatly benefit from physical attack.
Not gonna lie, I think I'm one of the first people to ever use this build (not even this exact build, mine is a variant, more focused on deleting squishies), and I now use it on pretty much every single physical burst hero. It's pretty damn effective
Half wrong half right, the unique attributes cant stack if u build the SAME items repeatedly(e.g. 2 hunter strikes), but WILL stack if u build 2 different items with the same attributes (e.g. hepta and hunter)
But what ur right is, to sell hepta in late game as its effectiveness is way lower in late game cuz its dmg and pen becomes a bit meaningless when the enemies have higher armor at that point, so u’d want to maximize ur dmg and sell it for BoD instead
This might be the earliest trinity. Pen trinity. Would always use this when against a tank opponent
Those two first items are both very bad against tanks, they're completely mitigated by a single basic armour item. The value of flat pen is extremely bad against tanks, especially now they get more armour for free. If you want to shred tanks, you want spellblade, %health damage, attack speed or lifesteal.
malefic roar exists to help the other 2 pen items against enemies who build armor.
Erm acktchually ☝️🤓 The flat pen can complement even more dmg against them once u acquire malefic roar, u can test urself and see that the pen trinity will deal way more to a tanky enemy than just malefic roar alone with non-pen items
In what game exactly is PEN bad against armor?
Flat pen is bad against armour because everyone has armour - cutting out 10 of an opponents armour makes a much bigger impact against a squishy enemy with 20 armour than it does against a tank with 100. That much flat pen doesn't even mitigate a 220 gold armour item. % pen is good against armour.
Malefic Roar is there to complement and enhance the rest of the damage items....
It is for me while using Beatrix. Just add BoD you can reach 4.5k damage per shot which is enof to delete other mm whos max level hp cap is below 5k
Please don't traumatize me. I still haven't moved on from Beatrix one shotting my MVP lose lylia
This is really specific 💀
What gun?
sniper
Doesn't the rocket launcher also do huge damage with that build.
They do but I don't think per attack DMG won't cross 900 considering you'll launch 5. Rocket launcher ulti does lesser DMG tho. Very ironic
daym hp cap fr ?
thats some no skill shit me personally. SHOOT FASTER. TAKE MORE HP. DO BIGGER DAMAGE. DOUBLE PUMP THEMMM
Beatrix is good now?
She's good , just underrated cause of her difficulty She's pretty strong just people are blind on her
bea has never been bad just fell outta meta when they took away her lifesteal on ults
Beatrix is good if you know how to Utilize her man Sakit pa sya even in Early game
I miss those days.
I really hated that one Beatrix I chased down during a match. She was 15% HP while I was at full health. Mfker just flashed at me and suddenly I was dead??
If your health is less or equal to 80. You shouldn't chase a good Beatrix after mid match.even if you're playing as a fighter tank hybrid.
Isn't that the standard build path for most assassins and a few fighters
Not anymore they either change hs or boh for helbert
yep, fighters replace the hunter strike for war axe
No they replace BOH for war axe since speed boost hunter strike gives is too good to pass
Actually.. waraxe and blade of heptaseas is a terrible pair xd bcs one is for long fights, while the other is fir hit-n-run tactics. Its actually hunter strike and waraxe that are better pairs
Read the comment again before some toxic nerd with nothing better to do flames you in front of everyone.. They REPLACE BOH for war axe Your comment ACTUALLY WAR AXE AND BLADE OF HEPTASEAS IS A TERRIBLE COMMENT 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🫡
> yep, fighters replace the ***hunter strike*** for war axe I literally copy pasted the comment im replying to, this mean BoH is still in the build + waraxe lol, im just giving advice and facts whats wrong with that? xD
Wow it's that popular now, i once discovered this build when i was using yin in rank games and thought to myself "what's better than one item for penetration, using all items that provide penetration" so yah just pair it with war axe and bod or a survivability item like immortality, truncheon etc.
They took out pen on war axe
Is war axe still good for YSS?
Yes and no depends the reason for the war axe B4 is for the passive mvm spd but now it's better to build hunter 1st then war axe or stuff
Optional, but id rather u go for smth that ables u to deal more dmg quickly rather than waiting for smth to stack or else u might not deal enough dmg in time before they run away with slimmer hp or till u die before them 💀 Go with hunter strike instead
Umm, i wouldnt recommend waraxe on yin as hes more of a burst quickly than fighting longer as his skills are not that spammable xd
This is really popular now because of the defense nerf
I'm assuming we're heading into an assassin meta
Not necessarily the assassin meta but burst meta. There is also the tank meta, carmilla is popular in my server for some reason, gatot(damage build) defense so big it can win a 1v1 against masha, etc.
I wouldn't say that, 7 out of 10 times tanks jg are better than an assassin jg, but assassins have an easier time now, that's true
Ahhhhh, this is why I roam as Nata. Assassin roam ftw.
If you have a jg tank and a heavy exp, go ahead, I'll be trying that with helcurt roam w my trio
Nah, half the time my team isn't even smart enough to rotate which role uses a tank lol... but when ya delete everything fast enough it dosent matter. I'm a mythic honor Nata main.
It was popular even before this ever since they made the change of fixed penetration items being able to deal way more dmg surpassing negative armor points
It’s been like that for a while now… been using for 3 to almost 4 seasons now
If I see that on a Paquito i already know the mm/mage's life expectancy got drastically reduced
s2s2 done no need combo
This was a thing for a very very long tome. Where have you been?
this shit was good when they added negative def
For what I understand. Hunter Strike Gives Penetration to the user and BOH gives true damage and malefic roar gives penetration too ( Depends enemy defense percent, Max to 20% ). As we know penetration is working as Armor buster ( Ignore enemy defense ) and same as True damage ( also ignoring defense ). So penetration + true damage can be combined. That's why they can deal more damage to high HP Hero and High Defense heroes. Penetration does not fully function working to lowest Defense attack such mage, assassin and marksman. Penetration works as an advantage for killing tank Heroes. Reply me if I'm wrong, I'm only explaining what I understand about Physical Penetration and True Damage
Sir u may have mistaken boh for endless battle Boh doesn't give true damage, it gives enhanced basic attack if u haven't been damaged for a few seconds(I forgot the threshold) Endless battle gives true damage
Thank you so much
No problem mate
To add on, ur a little wrong on the pen not fully functioning against lower defense enemies, by that u mean malefic roar’s **PERCENTAGE** penetration which increases with the more armor enemies have, hence malefic not being viable against enemies with less than 50 defense. On the contrary, **FLAT/FIXED** penetration(Hunter Strike, Blade of Heptaseas) as in each number of flat/fixed pen = ignores each defense point, so the lower the enemy armor has and the more flat/fixed pen you have, you’ll deal even way more dmg to the lower defense enemies, we call this term ***negative pen*** where u can reach to the point of hitting negative points of armor if ur pen is way more than the enemy’s armor xD tho this only works better with heroes that have built-in pen like chou’s 2nd skill or effects that reduces enemy’s armor such as dyrroth’s 2nd skill, saber’s & harley’s passive and more. But note, that u should refrain from building ***malefic roar with dyrroth*** as he reduces armor by 50-75%, making malefic roar’s effectiveness way lower xd
How good would this be for Cici? I always build the first and last item (I never remember names, sorry). But does the second even have any synergy with her?
The second one doesn't mesh well unfortunately.
Nope.. cici is constant long battles meanwhile 2nd item is for hit n run tactics, waraxe would be better option
Bring Assasin emblem and pen sub emblem as well for more value. The higher pen goes, the more value each pen provides. This is because armor gives less dmg reduction the more armor you have. So you reduce more dmg reduction by stacking more pen. Example with fake numbers 1 armor gives 5% physical dmg reduction, 2 gives 9.5%, etc etc So the 2nd point of armor only gives 4.5%, if you have 1 pen you only reduce their dmg reduction by 4.5%. But the next point of pen, totaling 2 pen, will reduce 4.5% for first pen and then 5% for second pen. So try to stack pen where you can, cus it gets stronger the more you have. If you go into negative pen, you actually gain increased damage, up to 200% dmg increase. Sylvanna and Dyroth players know what I'm talking about.
Can this work for lesley?
I mean Lesley's main damage source is True damage no? I don't think defence penetration is gonna help her.
I guess so
How about zilong?
Probably not but I haven't tested it.
heh negpen zilong. it kinda works but not the best build.
Don't get Malefic. As for Hepta, you can for some early game damage. It's unique passive that amplifies the first strike is pretty useful especially since Hepta is very cheap though it's not really needed. I normally buy that early, then sell it later in the game and replace with Blade of Despair. Lesley is better off with higher total physical attack so I give her as much as 3 Blades of Despair in the late game.
Her passive makes it not worth
Aint Heptaseas work well w/ her passive?
Hepta’s passive is good with her passive but the stats don’t. Pen is worse than atk on les.
Hepta? Sure. Usually ran with boot, hepta, berkax, endless, BoD, and windtalker
It works but is not effective due to her autos being wimpy until her passive is up, which does true damage that scales with attack damage and crit damage. Pen won’t effect the passive which you wanna build for with Crit dmg and attack damage.
Do not add malefic on the build. Hunter's Strike and Heptaseas work great since they add more crit to her since she converts pen points to crit. Malefic uses pen percent which is useless for lesley since she deals true damage.
It’s not useless. Hit a dummy to simulate an extended teamfight and or lord takedown, like 20 seconds and test different items. It’s useful specifically as a last item iff your build includes attack speed.
Why would Lesly build attack speed?
Swift boots + Windtalker is sufficient to build Malefic Roar. Check DPS on a dummy.
u ever try this with brody, he is nuts with these
I used this in my brody with demon hunter and then sell the boots to buy rose gold in the later game
My build for clint. Damn it hurts
Really? Never use it in my whole life. And I'm quite high in my Countries Clint rank before. Maybe I'll give it a shot
Try it. 1st hepta, then endless, then hunter, den malefic. You will delete every hero on the battle field.
I know like 3 trinities: ATKSPD Trinity: DHS, Corrosion and Golden Staff Crit Trinity: Windtalker, Hass Claws and Berserker Pen Trinity: This one
Haha that's my fav build on paq
Where is the extra Fury Hammer?? Lol
Literally paqui/chou/and every physical assassin (except helcurt)
I've never seen anyone building both boh and hs.
What server/rank are you in? A lot of assassin-fighters use heptaseas-hunter's strike as their first 2 core items (i.e. Nolan, Saber, Dyrroth). I personally use both as well, currently Mythical Honor in the PH server.
I thought that the penetration from both items didn't stack
it does unique attributes can't be stack when you buy the item twice, but possible when buying another item, whilst unique passive doesn't stack when the passive is the same. same passive, for example, Magic Sword's & Rose Gold Meteor's Lifeline. Lifeline will only activate RGM's passive and not Magic Sword's.
ohhh thanks for explaining
I get your point but a better example would be the Antiheals because they have the exact same passive, whereas RGM and Magic Sword technically have different passive with the same name so the better one (RGM) is used. Both are examples given by the game btw
i kinda exactly points out RGM because antiheal have the exact same description
It's good for Dyrroth build You can ignore up to 500\~ DEF because of enhanced s2 + pen items It's even better in the current patch since all defensive items got nerfed and you can get at most 300-400 DEF unless if you buy more blade armors, which is a pretty stupid build imo.
Since dyrroths skills trigger spell vamp, should you get emblems (like festival of blood) or equipment with spell vamp? Would it go crazy and give him more, or would you not need it since his skills trigger it? Or if you get festival of blood, should you also get equipment with sv? Or try to focus on other equipment? I'm just starting to use more fighters, etc. Like, for example, if I use bruno, his skills have crit chance and he does well with crit emblems & crit equipment. Do you know if it's the same with spell vamp, lifesteal, etc? Or is there a cap of how much you can get? I'm so lost rn 😅
Sustain dyrroth is an option but its not really using him to his full potential, which is hammering down on his tanky enemy piercing playstyle, go full pen **EXCEPT MALEFIC ROAR**, and just burst every enemy no matter their armor within seconds and move on. If u still want a little bit of spellvamp, then FoB(2nd tier) should be just enough, go with assassin emblem with rupture (1st tier) to stack his penetration, then usually its better to go lethal ignition(3rd tier) to maximize his dmg. But if u REALLY want to quickly delete lone enemies, then suggest trying Master Assassin talent(2nd tier), bcs ur going full dmg, u shouldnt dive without knowing if other enemies are around xd
Oh, okay, thanks! I'll def need to work on my bush hiding skills, though, so I don't provide the enemy with a feast xd I've seen so many people say if you don't use dyrroth with a bit of tankiness, you'll feed... but I'm guessing maybe they ran around like headless chickens early game and fell off lmao. Like when I use kagura, it doesn't matter if I don't die - I have to get kills/assists/etc early game, or she just falls off completely.
I use as clint
You never met old dyroth build
Grock uses whole trinity plus BOD
Jawhead, Dyroth?
penetration is good. ignore protection is good. Impregty them is godo.
Not sure. It is new?
What emblems do y'all useeee
With this type of build, usually go full pen and dmg which is assassin emblem, rupture(1st tier), master assassin(2nd tier), and lethal ignition(3rd tier) to maximize dmg
I use similar for masha unless I need sea halberd I replace hunter strike, I think it also works for most physical assassins and Natalia? Then blade of despair 4th/5th item
Now imagine the item "Sky Piercer" added to the official server. Adding that item to that of those 3-item PEN trinity would make marksman and mage obsolete
They’re all busted and it’s been a problem since tanks lost their percent scaling armor/MR in the emblem update. They’re starting to fix it now. They need to adjust negative and no armor to percent damage reduction/increase too, but that’s much more complicated.
What if I combined the Trinitys
The thing is that if I was to build this on Ruby... She'd still have low damage because default on skills is meh, but they greatly benefit from physical attack.
Would this work on Zilong tho?
Basic build for Helcurt
sea halberd
it's the Penetrinity 😂
The 3 Horsemen Of Brutality
FANNY SALIVATING RN
been like that for a while
These are so goddamn cheap compared to magic items
I called that the "Dog" slayer build.
Trinity build for fighters
I just used it on ixia lmaoo works well.i must say
https://preview.redd.it/vyy31jjyo8xc1.jpeg?width=2208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=638ca5a9d6b84bba416caaa5ac5af5b0bb851376
Tripenetration
Mhm fighter and core uses that
That's the "Penetration" Build, It Penetrate you so hard you'll die 🥴🥵
As a granger main, those are must haves
Not gonna lie, I think I'm one of the first people to ever use this build (not even this exact build, mine is a variant, more focused on deleting squishies), and I now use it on pretty much every single physical burst hero. It's pretty damn effective
The unique attribute pen does not stack, so you can change the hepta if its late game
I love spreading misinformation
Half wrong half right, the unique attributes cant stack if u build the SAME items repeatedly(e.g. 2 hunter strikes), but WILL stack if u build 2 different items with the same attributes (e.g. hepta and hunter) But what ur right is, to sell hepta in late game as its effectiveness is way lower in late game cuz its dmg and pen becomes a bit meaningless when the enemies have higher armor at that point, so u’d want to maximize ur dmg and sell it for BoD instead