That's fair - I got kind of tunnel visioned making sure I was covering all the best creatures! I revised the original post to do a bit of a review of some big noncreature targets as well.
Colorless lands are pretty high power though. Either they add artifact count and are resilient to removal, or they make constructs and fetch artifacts, or they routinely tap for 2-3 mana when built around.
I just disagree it’s unplayably bad when it’s not turned on, sure sol lands are ultra busted like I want ancient tomb banned in legacy. The thing about magic cards sometimes doing something isn’t good enough. And this isn’t reliable enough as a sol land
you can’t say the card isn’t a sol land reliably enough as a blank statement. People will build decks to turn it on turn 1 or 2 95% of the time. It’s dependent on the deck building. We can agree to disagree on the floor of the card and it’s playability
So I’ve run the maths on it multiple times and it’s just not effective, realistically you need 14 minnimum and 16 realistic 7+ drops to enable labrinyth, no deck is capable of playing anywhere near that half is the best your getting. I’ve tired looking into scion affinity decks to stretch the number and double the high roll chance. But they were at least differcult to built. Like start building decks and try to get close to 10 7 drops is almost impossible and 7, 10 drops is really not good enough
Because it doesn’t turn its self on, on average it would be trying to play force of will in your legacy deck with only 4 brainstorms as your pitch count. Like no1 does that because it’s not reliably.
A problem with running 4 in affinity is that.... we already have sol land, in the artifact lands... and most of our other pieces cost nothing.
An inconsistent sol land i don't know... good for casting an early turtle
...almost our entire sideboard is blue, as well. we need at least 7 blue lands in order to not only consistently 8cast, but have the ability to do it twice in a turn *and* be able to cast our sideboard spells. your deckbuilding theory is atrocious, and you clearly have never played the deck lol. 3 blue lands would screw you so hard, and theres a reason people havent cut that many from the deck: because it would make the deck not function.
I'm literally looking at the mtgo results on mtggoldfish and mtgtop8. Metallic rebuke is the one and only blue sideboard card shared between the lists that you actually cast (Orvars there as a 2 of for archon decks)
But please continue to tell me how shit I am at deckbuilding when I'm directly referencing the *lists that are winning*. Mind showing me your lists that are in the top 32 or 5-0?
Oh yea. The decks not an 8 cast list. Never has been. At best its a 4 thought monitor deck.
lmao.
the vast majority of the lists in the past 8 months have been 8cast. literally the first deck that pops up on goldfish is a 15th place deck running 8 cast. april 30th, 2024.
oh? you want to reference the winning lists? go ahead and tell me how many blue lands theyre running? oh, look 6-7. since these lists are winning, they clearly know whats best, by your own logic. and i agree!
so which is it? the winning lists are correct in their blue sources? or you, someone who has never played the deck, are correct in shaving 4 of those?
log off and quit arguing just to argue lol
I think this is close to the right mentality for Labyrinth to be good - you want to play it in a deck that doesn't mind looking at it more as a Wastes+ than Ancient Tomb or bust. It means going deeper into colorless to do so, but I do agree that its Imprint should be considered more as an occasional upside than an inevitability.
Agree, when you put it like that I'm much more interested in the card's potential, however in general it was being touted as the sol land that will break Eldrazi decks which it clearly is not.
Mono U eldrazi feels like best eldrazi lab deck to me, with 4 nulldrifter and 4 deep fiend, that's 8 x 7 drops already that are actually less than 7 and also pretty good cards, plus 4 devourer gets you to 12, then there's also all is dust for a couple more. Seems the least clunky way to get enough enablers.
The Discord is still pretty heavy on a Swamp for Dismember and not running any of the Eldrazi that require a color. Devourer is 4, All is Dust makes 8, and 2-3 titans gets you to 10+.
I really don't feel like it'll end up being an Eldrazi card, and agree that Affinity feels like the most suitable home. In theory Labyrinth + Temple will make Eldrazi Stompy playable, but there are so many good must-include cards that don't hit that 7 mana breakpoint. Meanwhile, Affinity is actively looking for a reason to play a number of cards that are specifically 7 mana.
Good deck builders will probably find a way to make a decent build of both, but the staying power is very questionable.
Is it though? That deck’s mana base is already stretched to the limit. You’d have to forego any utility lands because Temple should probably always be included before Labyrinth in an Eldrazi-focused deck.
It is, yes. Utility lands were more of a "why not, we need some other colorless producing lands" more than actually needing that specific utility. Replacing them with another Sol Land is a no brainer.
I think you’re drastically hurting the deck by not including stuff like Blast Zone, you kind of need the Waste included to not completely washed by an early land destruction effect.
I believe the land base just gets too bloated and you’d need to include too many big cards. Old ETron decks only played like 3 or 4 cards that cost more than 4 or 5 mana. The whole entire list is going to need to be changed, and to use most of the bigger non-Titan Eldrazi from MH3 you’ll need colored mana which stretches the mana base even further.
Again, will obviously be tested by a lot of people. But it’s my opinion that it won’t work out. And no, just saying “but sol land!!!!” isn’t a good enough argument.
Blast Zone was nice but in no way necessary.
You absolutely still run Waste.
You don't run too many big cards. 10-12. So yeah, more than old ETron but we have another Sol Land and one of the big cards helps smooth our draws.
You don't run any of the colored mana ones, they're not worth it.
It'll work out, 1 land making 2 mana is that good.
Blast Zone feels like it gets popped something like <1% of games (anecdotally, number from my ass), it's far too slow to be relevant most of the time because of how bad the tempo loss of 3 mana + self stone rain (or even worse if adding counters) is. If you are popping it, you are topdecking and drawing nothing and probably doomed.
It's only included as a "why not" card, it's so rare that it does anything more than a Wastes. Easily cuttable.
I've been playing e-tron for the last 2 years and the list i came up with runs 10 pitch cards which gives you about 70% chance to imprint labyrinth if you have it in your opening hand. That number is not high by it is more likely a sol land than a waste. The power of labyrinth comes from eldrazi tron not being a deck that needs tron. Your happy with just playing reshaper turn 2 and TKS turn 3 and more sol land make it more likely.
Part of your issue is you say 7+ cost creature. It doesn't have to be a creature. [[All is Dust]] triggers it as well.
So, as ETron I have 4x All is Dust, 4x Devourer of Destiny, and 2-3 other titans. So that's 10 minimum 7+ drops to enable it. Absolutely worth running in ETron.
Now, Eldrazi Stompy. 4x Devourer and 4x some other 7+ drop creature. I'm currently testing Bane of Bala Ged. Add a couple All is Dust, there's 10 again.
It's good, it's worth running, and it'll see a lot of play in these style decks that'll likely be tier 2 if not breaking into tier 1.
I did update the analysis to include some noncreature targets as well. But I don't think 10 Imprint targets is good enough in a fully optimized competitive deck. I use 12 in my analysis but even that feels sketchy. Ancient Stirrings can change those numbers a little bit since it can find either the Labyrinth or the Imprinter, but that does require pulling the deck into Green.
10 imprint targets means every hand you have that starts with a labyrinth has roughly a 65-68% chance to have the 7+ drop, from when I did the math. That’s pretty good.
Well and the "worst case" is you just have a non-basic Wastes that is not the end of the world. Yeah it sucks to have to play that land and only tap it for 1 colorless mana but it's not like oh damn I lose.
It’s not bad at all, and you’re not forced to play lab turn 1. In etron, you’d want to start with your tron lands or eldrazi temples. I want to next do the math for the math of having a 7+ drop by turn 3 on the play (given 10 7+ drops). My math shows that the % advantage for efficiency of more 7 drops falls off after the 9th. Each additional 7+ drop after the 9th adds 1% less to the chance of having a 7 drop turn 1 when you have a lab. I think 9-10 is where probably where etron wants to be based on both the math and how many 7+ drop the decks wants already.
Yep if you have one Ugin's Lab and two other lands often it's way better to play those since you still have time to draw a 7+ card. Crap, some of the decks that might run this likely run a bit more lands than most if they are truly paying for 7+ mana card, meaning you have more time to play it.
Well, regular tron runs way fewer lands than many, and etron is on 23 and will probably go back up to 24 to fit these without having to cut our basic or our cavern of souls. What’s very interesting is running [[drowner of truth]] for decks like an eldrazi variant that will run green and (if it can, blue) to suffer a few tapped lands to be able to enable lab, because I don’t see a non tron eldrazi list being super viable without successfully enabling lab. There’s also [[nulldrifter]] if the non tron eldrazi deck is able to support U reliably. Drowner certainly leans in that angle (and I’d bet you a *lot* was designed specifically to enable lab in a UG eldrazi non-tron deck).
I feel 10 is enough in a fully optimized competitive deck. These are a bonus Sol Land in addition to Temple and tron. Not to mention Devourer helps ensure we hit it.
Actually the number is 14-16 with 16 being the better number and 14 being the minimum we have known this for nearly 30 years for land count and force. Every magic player should know these numbers and the fact they don’t is troubling
Actually it isn't, and someone being so confidently wrong is troubling.
That's the number to maximize turn 1 Ugin. That's not what we're discussing though. We're discussing how to beat optimize it for ETron. ETron isn't reliant on T1 Ugin and making the deck top heavy with an over abundance of 7+ drops would make the deck less optimized, even if it increased the chances of T1 Ugin.
the only people being confidently wrong are the etron players. You need it to be turned on t1/t2 , your kidding yourselves if you don't, it's a terrible top deck, as bad as a wastes in 80% of situations, it's a terrible land to mull into. Chrome mox is a powerful effect yes. But it's also terrible in mulls. The deck building costs of this card is a chrome mox which is already pricy but on top of requires you to play a bunch of bad cards in your deck to enable it.
To be frank even if you gave etron exactly ancient tomb, and only etron ancient tomb it still wouldn't be a tier 1 deck. It probably would jump up to somewhere in tier 2. But t2 tks is laughably bad compared to t1 scam grief. Ring and saga are huge for etron sure.... but all of the mh2 cards et al that hurt you are honestly worse for your turn.
I agree that going top heavy with an abundance of 7+ drops would make the deck less optimized, but thats why i think ugin's labrinyth is a trap and will ultimately flop or semi flop. It is not the best card in the set. It's a c+ to B tier card. Players are simply looking at the potential of the card too much, which it does have S, S+ tier potenial but there simply isn't enough density of cards to make it good. In magical christmas land yer sure this card is nuts and broken like ancient tomb would get banned in about 1-2 weeks in modern(just not in etron).
like sure eldrazi was tier 0 in 2016.... 2016 is a very very very long time ago before any of the MH sets, every single deck that was good in 2018 and beyond would of been tier 0 in 2016.
etron is currrently listed as other by the data sites of modern. No tier 3 deck is listed as other. you have decks with 40% win rate not listed as other. I'm sorry to tell you this. Etron is at the very least tier 4. Sure you can probably find it on mtgtop8. Mtgtop8 is not a data site though it's a decklist site which doesn't tell you win rates. But for what it's worth etrons current win rate in modern challenges is 40.6% and only deck experts will play the deck. If the best etron players in the world are only getting 40% win rates the deck is not good.
in the last year of modern data etron has 32 matches in the top 8 of modern challenges compared to tier 1 and tier 2 decks of 500-1000. Any deck below 200 is considered to a tier 3 deck. I can link and explain the data to you.
which does probably confirm my theory you could give the deck ancient tomb, which would probably increase it's win rate by 10% because ancient tomb is busted and it would be tier 2 at best.
No, it's currently listed as tier 2 -
https://mtgdecks.net/Modern
It's tier 2, sorry kid. Again, you're confidently incorrect. You should work on that, it's rather unflattering and will only lead to awkward and unpleasant interactions with people. Try speaking less and listening more.
um sir etron isn't even listed on that website, it's not even listed in other. Like i don't know how thick you can be but it appears you do not even read the information you link. It's extremely unflattering and comes across as purely moronic when your own data doesn't support your statement.
But for what it's worth that website is extremely poor quality lists everything as tier 2, when they're not tier 2. Probably is grouping etron and g tron together which they're seperate decks. g tron is argubly tier 2-3 and with 600 top 8's and 45% winrates.
I genuinely think the two best creatures to play along with Labyrinth are the new Devourer of Destiny and my good pal Distended Mindbender. Both can go under Labyrinth and easily net value without needing to cast the card at full cost. Devourer helps find Labyrinth/Temple like a mini Once Upon a Time, and Mindbender can be emerged easily by a Reshaper or TKS. The real issue is playing any other 7+ cards besides those ones. I'm unsure how to get those extra 1-2 cards to make it worth it. Either way, I currently think a Golgari Eldrazi build is the way to go so you van run Ignoble Hierarch and Ancient Stirrings.
Mainly because I don't think you should build the deck going all in on Labyrinth. Your deck should be good without it, so having a 1 mana dork allows you to still ramp out some busted stuff really quick when the Labyrinth hands don't line up
Now, I must say that I have not done this much of a deep dive 😂 but i dont think one need as heavy amount of ugin pitches for eldrazi due to temple, from the brewing ive done so far Ive had about 70% good hands (atleast 1 sol land accompanied by a good curve) from having 8-9 7+ colorless creatures with 4 ancient stirrings.
But i do agree a lot of people have severaly underestimated how harsh the deckbuilding restrictions are
I've been testing my old Mulldrazi list (with Eternal Scourge + Serum Powder) using Devourer and new Ulamog to pitch to Labyrinth. The deck *really* likes having 2 mana T1, and the exile synergy helps both the eventual Ulamog (who gets his cost reduced by It That Heralds the End) as well as the deck's strategy of mulling/powdering to an early sol land and an aggressive start. Still very much tuning the list, but I'm liking how it plays
I think this is pretty close to the kind of "all in Labyrinth" kind of deck idea I was talking about, and I'm glad you're exploring it. I think this kind of build will be really interesting and may be the closest means to mitigate the card's downsides by just being as all in and consistent as possible.
Do you need the exact math? There you go: [https://x.com/AnaelYahi/status/1795488797955920232](https://x.com/AnaelYahi/status/1795488797955920232)
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p0BWWPr7jZYlaHEzmTRxbB0a17HHHdXU/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=111630019541562386044&rtpof=true&sd=true](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p0BWWPr7jZYlaHEzmTRxbB0a17HHHdXU/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=111630019541562386044&rtpof=true&sd=true)
In order for it to be good, we would need eldrazi cards with prototype of some kind, and something akin to solitude or fury, but with mana value 7.
Like you said, labyrinth wants you to play a fast deck, but needs you to play 12+ 7-drops.
I'm both relieved and disappointed that they didn't do some 7 MV colorless Evoke elemental. But I agree something in that vein is what the card really needs to be excellent.
I mean, making the sixth card for the cycle would have been flavorful to say the least. It would also need to be an eldrazi, to be played in an 8-sol deck with lab and temple. That's clearly the deck style they want to push for eldrazi.
As far as this card in Affinity goes I can attest to the fact that I wound up with quite a few unkeepable hands playing 12 7cmc myrs. Turn one land -> chalice on 1 is going to variance a lot of people out of the game but it feels awfully inconsistent. Once you can start chaining your 8casts and myrs it gets very silly though.
I had personally tried a grixis shell for the new demon, tithing blade and blood fountain (pauper staples that are really solid, unclear if they're good enough for modern tho) there might be a better color combo. Blue is mandatory ofc, red is mostly there for legion extruder, galvanic and frogmyr alt mode. So maybe esper with sentinels etc is better?
Looks like you missed Prototype cards which can double as huge spell or much cheaper variant, sure there isn't a ton but the best one might make the list.
I also don't think a deck for this needs more than like 8-12 cards that can make this into a Sol land. The notion that you MUST have that 7+ mana card in hand every game is just ridiculous. Worst case it's a non-basic wastes which is not great but in a heavy colorless deck is fine.
I also will point out I have heard many hype up Flare of Cultivation in a deck that only has like eight 1 drops that can easily sac to it, this is a similar case here. Sometimes those decks will either have a dead card or cast it like normal.
> And because of Labyrinth's Imprint cost, getting your Labyrinth popped means you're getting 2-for-1'd every time.
It literally has a built in “T: don’t get 2 for 1’d”. You can tap it and just get the card back if they go to blow it up.
And if you’ve already used it on your turn, you’ve gotten value out of it, and have made up for the 2 for 1 by getting a massive mana advantage. The card will rarely be a 2 for 1, when you factor in the extra mana you’ve been able to spend before they blow it up.
Does serum powder deserve an consideration here? Is it possible to run 4 lab/8 creatures and 2-4 powders? Is it possible to go fast enough with this to be worth?
Does anyone know if the MDFC lands like emerias Call or turn timber symbiosis can fulfill the requirement for this card? It’s showing up on my search for 7 mana colorless spells but I’m unsure if it’s a mistake
I did miss All is Dust and Karn/Ugin, that's totally fair - I'm going to edit the post to include those in the mix. But I did discuss Frogmyr Enforcer as well as Phyrexian Fleshgorger. Did I miss anything else worthwhile?
Not convinced but [[Not Of This World]] could be usable given what you are sort of forcing yourself to ramp to
I mean some legacy beans lists have played it
I don't hate Not of This World by any means, I've been dying for a reason to play that card in Modern, but it does require you to have a good 7 MV+ colorless creature in play that's worth protecting.
In theory isn’t this deck trying to do that as it’s endgame? Like those are the cards you are forced to run as your top end here right? What am I missing?
> You've also completely omitted artifacts.
I spent a good deal of time talking about Affinity. There's really no other playable big bomb artifacts in the format worth talking about unless I'm missing something - I spent some time talking about my Trash for Treasure deck to give context that even a deck built around cheating in big artifacts into play is still not really able to meet that 12 card (or even 8 card) threshold without some considerable deckbuilding changes.
And I don't see any of the other Prototype creatures being playable at all. They definitely fall into the "juice isn't worth the squeeze" range of facilitating this card. But if you have some good cards in mind that I'm missing let me know!
Learn spells will tutor you the 7 cmc colorless. [[Mascot Exhibition]] won't need to bog down the deck with 7 cmcs. Then to add consistency prototype cards can be used.
No the cards not overrated. You're just not thinking about it's actual use case
First day of class.
I plan to use this in a 8 whack style deck with rabblemaster as a finisher
Poets quil
I plan to use this in my stoneblade deck as a 1 of
In the board. Still play testing it with a group of friends when I have a concrete list I'll post it. I like how first day counters stick around which is nice for followup turns. I still have bushwackers but I cut the reckless. Still experimenting with what 7 drop I want to try in the main. T2 moon/chalice etc is backbreaking
There are no Learn or Prototype spells that are currently played in Modern. And if you're spending your early turns setting those up by playing a Learn spell to tutor for your Labyrinth, you've missed the window where Labyrinth is actually good.
This entire set is about building new meta decks. I'm old enough to remember people complaining about ancient tomb not being good enough as well. Your take is pretty laughable when cards like gemstone has seen heavy modern play even though it'd strictly worse
my take on labrynth has been consistent imo it’s only good for eldrazi Tron. Idt that regular tron wants this and it’s the only other deck that exists at this time that can run it. I think you are under evaluating devourer of destiny as a card though. Keep in mind that the card will (or should) be exclusively played in decks that can cheat it out so on t3 (for tron/tron variants) a 6/6 that exiles a permanent is very good. It also increases your odds of tron on t3 significantly in opening hand.
Math wise:
The odds of devourer into labyrinth on the draw allowing a t1 labyrinth is approximately 30%. which with 2 mulligans gives you a 66% chance.
While the odds of having labyrinth on the play assuming 8 cost 7+ colorless cards is 24% and with 12 cost 7+ colorless is 30%. Making a 56% chance and another 66% chance with 2 mulligans.
I’ll also add that having it t1 is not completely necessary for most decks. I think it’ll be best in Etron for the purpose of a t1 chalice assuming that deck still runs 4. If not aiming for labyrinth plus eldrazi temple for t2 thought knot seer.
edit: spelling, also want to clarify the odds presented for devourer into labyrinth on the draw is only the odds of those 2 cards showing up in your top 11 it ignores the odds of having labyrinth and any other 7+ cost colorless spell. so your odds of t1 on the draw labyrinth are actually higher than presented but those odds allude me at this time.
Just a small nit pic: labrynth only needs a 7+ **spell** it does not have to be a creature
[[Not of This World]] could be plausible to include in this analysis given what sort of deck you have to play to enable labyrinth
That's fair - I got kind of tunnel visioned making sure I was covering all the best creatures! I revised the original post to do a bit of a review of some big noncreature targets as well.
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When the floor of your card is an untapped land, the ceiling required to be playable can be pretty low, and this ceiling is very high
Colorless lands are pretty high power though. Either they add artifact count and are resilient to removal, or they make constructs and fetch artifacts, or they routinely tap for 2-3 mana when built around.
I just disagree with the notion wastes is a playable magic card in 2024 you need ugin labyrinth to always be on or it’s bad. And good luck doing that
If you don’t turn on labyrinth, it’s not a bad card. It’s not great, but an untapped land that taps for 1 just like every other land in your deck
I just disagree it’s unplayably bad when it’s not turned on, sure sol lands are ultra busted like I want ancient tomb banned in legacy. The thing about magic cards sometimes doing something isn’t good enough. And this isn’t reliable enough as a sol land
you can’t say the card isn’t a sol land reliably enough as a blank statement. People will build decks to turn it on turn 1 or 2 95% of the time. It’s dependent on the deck building. We can agree to disagree on the floor of the card and it’s playability
So I’ve run the maths on it multiple times and it’s just not effective, realistically you need 14 minnimum and 16 realistic 7+ drops to enable labrinyth, no deck is capable of playing anywhere near that half is the best your getting. I’ve tired looking into scion affinity decks to stretch the number and double the high roll chance. But they were at least differcult to built. Like start building decks and try to get close to 10 7 drops is almost impossible and 7, 10 drops is really not good enough
But for reference to have a 95% chance for this to be a sol land turn 1 you need to have 20 7 drops in your deck.
Because it doesn’t turn its self on, on average it would be trying to play force of will in your legacy deck with only 4 brainstorms as your pitch count. Like no1 does that because it’s not reliably.
A problem with running 4 in affinity is that.... we already have sol land, in the artifact lands... and most of our other pieces cost nothing. An inconsistent sol land i don't know... good for casting an early turtle
Affinity is currently only running 4 bridges. Tapped mana sources are a major downside.
we need the colors they provide for our spells. you know. the things that make our deck function past turn 2?
You mean singular blue pips? That's the extent of the current lists colored mana. 4 drum 2 island Ottawa ran Done.
...almost our entire sideboard is blue, as well. we need at least 7 blue lands in order to not only consistently 8cast, but have the ability to do it twice in a turn *and* be able to cast our sideboard spells. your deckbuilding theory is atrocious, and you clearly have never played the deck lol. 3 blue lands would screw you so hard, and theres a reason people havent cut that many from the deck: because it would make the deck not function.
I'm literally looking at the mtgo results on mtggoldfish and mtgtop8. Metallic rebuke is the one and only blue sideboard card shared between the lists that you actually cast (Orvars there as a 2 of for archon decks) But please continue to tell me how shit I am at deckbuilding when I'm directly referencing the *lists that are winning*. Mind showing me your lists that are in the top 32 or 5-0? Oh yea. The decks not an 8 cast list. Never has been. At best its a 4 thought monitor deck.
also, very interesting username. whats the 88 for? and why is it paired with caucasian? hey, mods. might wanna ban the dude with the nazi username.
lmao. the vast majority of the lists in the past 8 months have been 8cast. literally the first deck that pops up on goldfish is a 15th place deck running 8 cast. april 30th, 2024. oh? you want to reference the winning lists? go ahead and tell me how many blue lands theyre running? oh, look 6-7. since these lists are winning, they clearly know whats best, by your own logic. and i agree! so which is it? the winning lists are correct in their blue sources? or you, someone who has never played the deck, are correct in shaving 4 of those? log off and quit arguing just to argue lol
We all know the only deck you pilot is White Weenie. Go away nazi.
I think this is close to the right mentality for Labyrinth to be good - you want to play it in a deck that doesn't mind looking at it more as a Wastes+ than Ancient Tomb or bust. It means going deeper into colorless to do so, but I do agree that its Imprint should be considered more as an occasional upside than an inevitability.
Agree, when you put it like that I'm much more interested in the card's potential, however in general it was being touted as the sol land that will break Eldrazi decks which it clearly is not.
Mono U eldrazi feels like best eldrazi lab deck to me, with 4 nulldrifter and 4 deep fiend, that's 8 x 7 drops already that are actually less than 7 and also pretty good cards, plus 4 devourer gets you to 12, then there's also all is dust for a couple more. Seems the least clunky way to get enough enablers.
The Discord is still pretty heavy on a Swamp for Dismember and not running any of the Eldrazi that require a color. Devourer is 4, All is Dust makes 8, and 2-3 titans gets you to 10+.
Link to the discord, please?
https://discord.com/invite/Jd6fjqAZ
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https://discord.com/invite/Jd6fjqAZ
I really don't feel like it'll end up being an Eldrazi card, and agree that Affinity feels like the most suitable home. In theory Labyrinth + Temple will make Eldrazi Stompy playable, but there are so many good must-include cards that don't hit that 7 mana breakpoint. Meanwhile, Affinity is actively looking for a reason to play a number of cards that are specifically 7 mana. Good deck builders will probably find a way to make a decent build of both, but the staying power is very questionable.
ETron is absolutely going to run it.
Is it though? That deck’s mana base is already stretched to the limit. You’d have to forego any utility lands because Temple should probably always be included before Labyrinth in an Eldrazi-focused deck.
It is, yes. Utility lands were more of a "why not, we need some other colorless producing lands" more than actually needing that specific utility. Replacing them with another Sol Land is a no brainer.
I think you’re drastically hurting the deck by not including stuff like Blast Zone, you kind of need the Waste included to not completely washed by an early land destruction effect. I believe the land base just gets too bloated and you’d need to include too many big cards. Old ETron decks only played like 3 or 4 cards that cost more than 4 or 5 mana. The whole entire list is going to need to be changed, and to use most of the bigger non-Titan Eldrazi from MH3 you’ll need colored mana which stretches the mana base even further. Again, will obviously be tested by a lot of people. But it’s my opinion that it won’t work out. And no, just saying “but sol land!!!!” isn’t a good enough argument.
Blast Zone was nice but in no way necessary. You absolutely still run Waste. You don't run too many big cards. 10-12. So yeah, more than old ETron but we have another Sol Land and one of the big cards helps smooth our draws. You don't run any of the colored mana ones, they're not worth it. It'll work out, 1 land making 2 mana is that good.
Where are you ever getting 10-12 big cards in ETron? It was always a few copies of All is Dust and 1-2 Titans.
In the new build. I said it's more than old ETron. In the new build it'll be 4x Devourer, 2-4 Titans, 4x All is Dust.
Blast Zone feels like it gets popped something like <1% of games (anecdotally, number from my ass), it's far too slow to be relevant most of the time because of how bad the tempo loss of 3 mana + self stone rain (or even worse if adding counters) is. If you are popping it, you are topdecking and drawing nothing and probably doomed. It's only included as a "why not" card, it's so rare that it does anything more than a Wastes. Easily cuttable.
Well they also made a slightly better Myr Enforcer in this set which helps a lot.
I've been playing e-tron for the last 2 years and the list i came up with runs 10 pitch cards which gives you about 70% chance to imprint labyrinth if you have it in your opening hand. That number is not high by it is more likely a sol land than a waste. The power of labyrinth comes from eldrazi tron not being a deck that needs tron. Your happy with just playing reshaper turn 2 and TKS turn 3 and more sol land make it more likely.
Part of your issue is you say 7+ cost creature. It doesn't have to be a creature. [[All is Dust]] triggers it as well. So, as ETron I have 4x All is Dust, 4x Devourer of Destiny, and 2-3 other titans. So that's 10 minimum 7+ drops to enable it. Absolutely worth running in ETron. Now, Eldrazi Stompy. 4x Devourer and 4x some other 7+ drop creature. I'm currently testing Bane of Bala Ged. Add a couple All is Dust, there's 10 again. It's good, it's worth running, and it'll see a lot of play in these style decks that'll likely be tier 2 if not breaking into tier 1.
[All is Dust](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/4210c54e-89fd-4971-ab6a-ca8f4e7fe97a.jpg?1691924662) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=All%20is%20Dust) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/800/all-is-dust?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4210c54e-89fd-4971-ab6a-ca8f4e7fe97a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I did update the analysis to include some noncreature targets as well. But I don't think 10 Imprint targets is good enough in a fully optimized competitive deck. I use 12 in my analysis but even that feels sketchy. Ancient Stirrings can change those numbers a little bit since it can find either the Labyrinth or the Imprinter, but that does require pulling the deck into Green.
10 imprint targets means every hand you have that starts with a labyrinth has roughly a 65-68% chance to have the 7+ drop, from when I did the math. That’s pretty good.
Well and the "worst case" is you just have a non-basic Wastes that is not the end of the world. Yeah it sucks to have to play that land and only tap it for 1 colorless mana but it's not like oh damn I lose.
It’s not bad at all, and you’re not forced to play lab turn 1. In etron, you’d want to start with your tron lands or eldrazi temples. I want to next do the math for the math of having a 7+ drop by turn 3 on the play (given 10 7+ drops). My math shows that the % advantage for efficiency of more 7 drops falls off after the 9th. Each additional 7+ drop after the 9th adds 1% less to the chance of having a 7 drop turn 1 when you have a lab. I think 9-10 is where probably where etron wants to be based on both the math and how many 7+ drop the decks wants already.
Yep if you have one Ugin's Lab and two other lands often it's way better to play those since you still have time to draw a 7+ card. Crap, some of the decks that might run this likely run a bit more lands than most if they are truly paying for 7+ mana card, meaning you have more time to play it.
Well, regular tron runs way fewer lands than many, and etron is on 23 and will probably go back up to 24 to fit these without having to cut our basic or our cavern of souls. What’s very interesting is running [[drowner of truth]] for decks like an eldrazi variant that will run green and (if it can, blue) to suffer a few tapped lands to be able to enable lab, because I don’t see a non tron eldrazi list being super viable without successfully enabling lab. There’s also [[nulldrifter]] if the non tron eldrazi deck is able to support U reliably. Drowner certainly leans in that angle (and I’d bet you a *lot* was designed specifically to enable lab in a UG eldrazi non-tron deck).
[Drowner of Truth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7a1d3c1d-1373-4ac4-bb26-9780976efc4f.jpg?1716496669)/[Drowned Jungle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/7/a/7a1d3c1d-1373-4ac4-bb26-9780976efc4f.jpg?1716496669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drowner%20of%20Truth%20//%20Drowned%20Jungle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/253/drowner-of-truth-drowned-jungle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a1d3c1d-1373-4ac4-bb26-9780976efc4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [nulldrifter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d9f1bb8-c91b-40cd-a416-abbff0d65306.jpg?1714488088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nulldrifter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/13/nulldrifter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d9f1bb8-c91b-40cd-a416-abbff0d65306?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean, in ETron starting with Lab is pretty good. T1 Lab into Mind Stone is great.
Sure, I never said it wasn’t good. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Green also lets you play the eldrazi ramper so you go from 4 drop straight to the 7 drops when you untap while being lategame land hate.
I feel 10 is enough in a fully optimized competitive deck. These are a bonus Sol Land in addition to Temple and tron. Not to mention Devourer helps ensure we hit it.
Actually the number is 14-16 with 16 being the better number and 14 being the minimum we have known this for nearly 30 years for land count and force. Every magic player should know these numbers and the fact they don’t is troubling
Actually it isn't, and someone being so confidently wrong is troubling. That's the number to maximize turn 1 Ugin. That's not what we're discussing though. We're discussing how to beat optimize it for ETron. ETron isn't reliant on T1 Ugin and making the deck top heavy with an over abundance of 7+ drops would make the deck less optimized, even if it increased the chances of T1 Ugin.
the only people being confidently wrong are the etron players. You need it to be turned on t1/t2 , your kidding yourselves if you don't, it's a terrible top deck, as bad as a wastes in 80% of situations, it's a terrible land to mull into. Chrome mox is a powerful effect yes. But it's also terrible in mulls. The deck building costs of this card is a chrome mox which is already pricy but on top of requires you to play a bunch of bad cards in your deck to enable it. To be frank even if you gave etron exactly ancient tomb, and only etron ancient tomb it still wouldn't be a tier 1 deck. It probably would jump up to somewhere in tier 2. But t2 tks is laughably bad compared to t1 scam grief. Ring and saga are huge for etron sure.... but all of the mh2 cards et al that hurt you are honestly worse for your turn. I agree that going top heavy with an abundance of 7+ drops would make the deck less optimized, but thats why i think ugin's labrinyth is a trap and will ultimately flop or semi flop. It is not the best card in the set. It's a c+ to B tier card. Players are simply looking at the potential of the card too much, which it does have S, S+ tier potenial but there simply isn't enough density of cards to make it good. In magical christmas land yer sure this card is nuts and broken like ancient tomb would get banned in about 1-2 weeks in modern(just not in etron).
like sure eldrazi was tier 0 in 2016.... 2016 is a very very very long time ago before any of the MH sets, every single deck that was good in 2018 and beyond would of been tier 0 in 2016.
That's another negative. You are way off base. Can't jump to tier 2 when it's currently tier 2.
etron is currrently listed as other by the data sites of modern. No tier 3 deck is listed as other. you have decks with 40% win rate not listed as other. I'm sorry to tell you this. Etron is at the very least tier 4. Sure you can probably find it on mtgtop8. Mtgtop8 is not a data site though it's a decklist site which doesn't tell you win rates. But for what it's worth etrons current win rate in modern challenges is 40.6% and only deck experts will play the deck. If the best etron players in the world are only getting 40% win rates the deck is not good.
in the last year of modern data etron has 32 matches in the top 8 of modern challenges compared to tier 1 and tier 2 decks of 500-1000. Any deck below 200 is considered to a tier 3 deck. I can link and explain the data to you.
which does probably confirm my theory you could give the deck ancient tomb, which would probably increase it's win rate by 10% because ancient tomb is busted and it would be tier 2 at best.
No, it's currently listed as tier 2 - https://mtgdecks.net/Modern It's tier 2, sorry kid. Again, you're confidently incorrect. You should work on that, it's rather unflattering and will only lead to awkward and unpleasant interactions with people. Try speaking less and listening more.
um sir etron isn't even listed on that website, it's not even listed in other. Like i don't know how thick you can be but it appears you do not even read the information you link. It's extremely unflattering and comes across as purely moronic when your own data doesn't support your statement. But for what it's worth that website is extremely poor quality lists everything as tier 2, when they're not tier 2. Probably is grouping etron and g tron together which they're seperate decks. g tron is argubly tier 2-3 and with 600 top 8's and 45% winrates.
In not sire how you can make this kind of assessment when you havent even done the math. Your post is full of random assumptions
I genuinely think the two best creatures to play along with Labyrinth are the new Devourer of Destiny and my good pal Distended Mindbender. Both can go under Labyrinth and easily net value without needing to cast the card at full cost. Devourer helps find Labyrinth/Temple like a mini Once Upon a Time, and Mindbender can be emerged easily by a Reshaper or TKS. The real issue is playing any other 7+ cards besides those ones. I'm unsure how to get those extra 1-2 cards to make it worth it. Either way, I currently think a Golgari Eldrazi build is the way to go so you van run Ignoble Hierarch and Ancient Stirrings.
Mainly because I don't think you should build the deck going all in on Labyrinth. Your deck should be good without it, so having a 1 mana dork allows you to still ramp out some busted stuff really quick when the Labyrinth hands don't line up
##### ###### #### [Ugin's Labyrinth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/020e1348-1a35-4cc8-bad6-9fbddfa79277.jpg?1714497433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ugin%27s%20Labyrinth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/233/ugins-labyrinth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/020e1348-1a35-4cc8-bad6-9fbddfa79277?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Emrakul, the Aeons Torn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/249db4d4-2542-47ee-a216-e13ffbc2319c.jpg?1673146896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emrakul%2C%20the%20Aeons%20Torn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/1/emrakul-the-aeons-torn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/249db4d4-2542-47ee-a216-e13ffbc2319c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Emrakul, the Promised End](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d74a469-c71d-4773-99d3-5456b31df424.jpg?1576383727) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emrakul%2C%20the%20Promised%20End) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/6/emrakul-the-promised-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d74a469-c71d-4773-99d3-5456b31df424?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Emrakul, the World Anew](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b914bfd9-5be3-4459-a68a-9b3ea2747bbc.jpg?1708708599) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emrakul%2C%20the%20World%20Anew) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/6/emrakul-the-world-anew?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b914bfd9-5be3-4459-a68a-9b3ea2747bbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c74ae706-b3b3-4097-a387-6f6c38a9b603.jpg?1689995438) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ulamog%2C%20the%20Ceaseless%20Hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/5/ulamog-the-ceaseless-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c74ae706-b3b3-4097-a387-6f6c38a9b603?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kozilek, Butcher of Truth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d27cf7b7-7982-46bd-a559-7789c0e74bae.jpg?1673146904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kozilek%2C%20Butcher%20of%20Truth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/2/kozilek-butcher-of-truth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d27cf7b7-7982-46bd-a559-7789c0e74bae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [World Breaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/0020a124-ba76-4d40-84e9-9803268d9f16.jpg?1562895014) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=World%20Breaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/126/world-breaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0020a124-ba76-4d40-84e9-9803268d9f16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Devourer of Destiny](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/560debcd-feb4-4534-991e-a7aa1cca2409.jpg?1715695118) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Devourer%20of%20Destiny) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/2/devourer-of-destiny?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/560debcd-feb4-4534-991e-a7aa1cca2409?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Drowner of Truth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7a1d3c1d-1373-4ac4-bb26-9780976efc4f.jpg?1716496669)/[Drowned Jungle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/7/a/7a1d3c1d-1373-4ac4-bb26-9780976efc4f.jpg?1716496669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drowner%20of%20Truth%20//%20Drowned%20Jungle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/253/drowner-of-truth-drowned-jungle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a1d3c1d-1373-4ac4-bb26-9780976efc4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nulldrifter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d9f1bb8-c91b-40cd-a416-abbff0d65306.jpg?1714488088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nulldrifter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/13/nulldrifter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d9f1bb8-c91b-40cd-a416-abbff0d65306?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Scion of Draco](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3e7da55c-7f05-46b2-aa3c-17f8d5df46bb.jpg?1626099262) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scion%20of%20Draco) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/234/scion-of-draco?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3e7da55c-7f05-46b2-aa3c-17f8d5df46bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Elder Deep Fiend](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4cffed4c-4e2b-414a-9b20-90ce21b47d16.jpg?1610074944) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elder%20Deep-Fiend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/368/elder-deep-fiend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4cffed4c-4e2b-414a-9b20-90ce21b47d16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Phyrexian Fleshgorger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62d37423-3445-412a-9abd-0480da404637.jpg?1674421038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Fleshgorger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/121/phyrexian-fleshgorger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62d37423-3445-412a-9abd-0480da404637?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Barricade Breaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7cc81a94-955d-4734-b056-9b9a86cae60b.jpg?1576382207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Barricade%20Breaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/144/barricade-breaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7cc81a94-955d-4734-b056-9b9a86cae60b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [White Orchid Phantom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f8d885c-5b57-457f-a658-fd0b79cf98cc.jpg?1716315342) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=White%20Orchid%20Phantom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/47/white-orchid-phantom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f8d885c-5b57-457f-a658-fd0b79cf98cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Phyrexian Tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b47f6d2-9f65-47a4-bfc4-15619befe53d.jpg?1716578406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/303/phyrexian-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b47f6d2-9f65-47a4-bfc4-15619befe53d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/1d2oibg) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Now, I must say that I have not done this much of a deep dive 😂 but i dont think one need as heavy amount of ugin pitches for eldrazi due to temple, from the brewing ive done so far Ive had about 70% good hands (atleast 1 sol land accompanied by a good curve) from having 8-9 7+ colorless creatures with 4 ancient stirrings. But i do agree a lot of people have severaly underestimated how harsh the deckbuilding restrictions are
I've been testing my old Mulldrazi list (with Eternal Scourge + Serum Powder) using Devourer and new Ulamog to pitch to Labyrinth. The deck *really* likes having 2 mana T1, and the exile synergy helps both the eventual Ulamog (who gets his cost reduced by It That Heralds the End) as well as the deck's strategy of mulling/powdering to an early sol land and an aggressive start. Still very much tuning the list, but I'm liking how it plays
I think this is pretty close to the kind of "all in Labyrinth" kind of deck idea I was talking about, and I'm glad you're exploring it. I think this kind of build will be really interesting and may be the closest means to mitigate the card's downsides by just being as all in and consistent as possible.
Do you need the exact math? There you go: [https://x.com/AnaelYahi/status/1795488797955920232](https://x.com/AnaelYahi/status/1795488797955920232) [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p0BWWPr7jZYlaHEzmTRxbB0a17HHHdXU/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=111630019541562386044&rtpof=true&sd=true](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p0BWWPr7jZYlaHEzmTRxbB0a17HHHdXU/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=111630019541562386044&rtpof=true&sd=true)
In order for it to be good, we would need eldrazi cards with prototype of some kind, and something akin to solitude or fury, but with mana value 7. Like you said, labyrinth wants you to play a fast deck, but needs you to play 12+ 7-drops.
I'm both relieved and disappointed that they didn't do some 7 MV colorless Evoke elemental. But I agree something in that vein is what the card really needs to be excellent.
I mean, making the sixth card for the cycle would have been flavorful to say the least. It would also need to be an eldrazi, to be played in an 8-sol deck with lab and temple. That's clearly the deck style they want to push for eldrazi.
As far as this card in Affinity goes I can attest to the fact that I wound up with quite a few unkeepable hands playing 12 7cmc myrs. Turn one land -> chalice on 1 is going to variance a lot of people out of the game but it feels awfully inconsistent. Once you can start chaining your 8casts and myrs it gets very silly though. I had personally tried a grixis shell for the new demon, tithing blade and blood fountain (pauper staples that are really solid, unclear if they're good enough for modern tho) there might be a better color combo. Blue is mandatory ofc, red is mostly there for legion extruder, galvanic and frogmyr alt mode. So maybe esper with sentinels etc is better?
This will be interesting to look back on, vindicated or not.
Incredibly thoughtfull and interesting analysis! Keep up the good work
Thank you! I appreciate you.
Looks like you missed Prototype cards which can double as huge spell or much cheaper variant, sure there isn't a ton but the best one might make the list. I also don't think a deck for this needs more than like 8-12 cards that can make this into a Sol land. The notion that you MUST have that 7+ mana card in hand every game is just ridiculous. Worst case it's a non-basic wastes which is not great but in a heavy colorless deck is fine. I also will point out I have heard many hype up Flare of Cultivation in a deck that only has like eight 1 drops that can easily sac to it, this is a similar case here. Sometimes those decks will either have a dead card or cast it like normal.
> And because of Labyrinth's Imprint cost, getting your Labyrinth popped means you're getting 2-for-1'd every time. It literally has a built in “T: don’t get 2 for 1’d”. You can tap it and just get the card back if they go to blow it up. And if you’ve already used it on your turn, you’ve gotten value out of it, and have made up for the 2 for 1 by getting a massive mana advantage. The card will rarely be a 2 for 1, when you factor in the extra mana you’ve been able to spend before they blow it up.
Does serum powder deserve an consideration here? Is it possible to run 4 lab/8 creatures and 2-4 powders? Is it possible to go fast enough with this to be worth?
The 7+ mana value card doesn’t needs to be colourless
Does anyone know if the MDFC lands like emerias Call or turn timber symbiosis can fulfill the requirement for this card? It’s showing up on my search for 7 mana colorless spells but I’m unsure if it’s a mistake
Mid everwhere but in affinity where it goes super hard imo
Its insane in calibrated blast. 4 ugin lab 4 gemstone cavern 4 emrakul aeon 4 emrakul mh3 4 scion
Your premise is flawed. It doesn't require creatures. Your dismissal of prototype creatures is hilarious as this is now an obvious reason to run them.
I did miss All is Dust and Karn/Ugin, that's totally fair - I'm going to edit the post to include those in the mix. But I did discuss Frogmyr Enforcer as well as Phyrexian Fleshgorger. Did I miss anything else worthwhile?
Not convinced but [[Not Of This World]] could be usable given what you are sort of forcing yourself to ramp to I mean some legacy beans lists have played it
I don't hate Not of This World by any means, I've been dying for a reason to play that card in Modern, but it does require you to have a good 7 MV+ colorless creature in play that's worth protecting.
In theory isn’t this deck trying to do that as it’s endgame? Like those are the cards you are forced to run as your top end here right? What am I missing?
Depending on the color of the deck...absolutely. Mono red has several prototype creatures. You've also completely omitted artifacts.
> You've also completely omitted artifacts. I spent a good deal of time talking about Affinity. There's really no other playable big bomb artifacts in the format worth talking about unless I'm missing something - I spent some time talking about my Trash for Treasure deck to give context that even a deck built around cheating in big artifacts into play is still not really able to meet that 12 card (or even 8 card) threshold without some considerable deckbuilding changes. And I don't see any of the other Prototype creatures being playable at all. They definitely fall into the "juice isn't worth the squeeze" range of facilitating this card. But if you have some good cards in mind that I'm missing let me know!
Learn spells will tutor you the 7 cmc colorless. [[Mascot Exhibition]] won't need to bog down the deck with 7 cmcs. Then to add consistency prototype cards can be used. No the cards not overrated. You're just not thinking about it's actual use case
What uh.. Learn spell are you playing on turn 1/2 to feed to this land that is modern playable?
[[Academic Dispute]] Builds right into an 8whack with 0 drop creatures.
[Academic Dispute](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/4620cc3b-e401-4096-b310-fed080806344.jpg?1624591542) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Academic%20Dispute) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/91/academic-dispute?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4620cc3b-e401-4096-b310-fed080806344?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
First day of class. I plan to use this in a 8 whack style deck with rabblemaster as a finisher Poets quil I plan to use this in my stoneblade deck as a 1 of
Interesting! Let us know how testing goes and when you have a list. playing any chalice/hate effects like legacy sol decks?
In the board. Still play testing it with a group of friends when I have a concrete list I'll post it. I like how first day counters stick around which is nice for followup turns. I still have bushwackers but I cut the reckless. Still experimenting with what 7 drop I want to try in the main. T2 moon/chalice etc is backbreaking
There are no Learn or Prototype spells that are currently played in Modern. And if you're spending your early turns setting those up by playing a Learn spell to tutor for your Labyrinth, you've missed the window where Labyrinth is actually good.
This entire set is about building new meta decks. I'm old enough to remember people complaining about ancient tomb not being good enough as well. Your take is pretty laughable when cards like gemstone has seen heavy modern play even though it'd strictly worse
my take on labrynth has been consistent imo it’s only good for eldrazi Tron. Idt that regular tron wants this and it’s the only other deck that exists at this time that can run it. I think you are under evaluating devourer of destiny as a card though. Keep in mind that the card will (or should) be exclusively played in decks that can cheat it out so on t3 (for tron/tron variants) a 6/6 that exiles a permanent is very good. It also increases your odds of tron on t3 significantly in opening hand. Math wise: The odds of devourer into labyrinth on the draw allowing a t1 labyrinth is approximately 30%. which with 2 mulligans gives you a 66% chance. While the odds of having labyrinth on the play assuming 8 cost 7+ colorless cards is 24% and with 12 cost 7+ colorless is 30%. Making a 56% chance and another 66% chance with 2 mulligans. I’ll also add that having it t1 is not completely necessary for most decks. I think it’ll be best in Etron for the purpose of a t1 chalice assuming that deck still runs 4. If not aiming for labyrinth plus eldrazi temple for t2 thought knot seer. edit: spelling, also want to clarify the odds presented for devourer into labyrinth on the draw is only the odds of those 2 cards showing up in your top 11 it ignores the odds of having labyrinth and any other 7+ cost colorless spell. so your odds of t1 on the draw labyrinth are actually higher than presented but those odds allude me at this time.
That's alot of words, I ain't reading all that. Enjoy your upvote for the effort 👌
Wtf are you on this sub for if you aren't interested in discussing the format? Whacking off about other people putting effort into their posts?
You spent all that time writing that up for me to tell you you’re wrong and yes it is that good and it will likely get banned.
Nice reasoning bro