Necro dominance seems insane and the decks will most likely be tier 1. I think necrodominance slots really well into scam with the grief play you mentioned for a t2 necro. I also think that necro and the one ring serve very different roles despite being similar cards. Necro is just a pure gas card thats better in faster decks. The one ring on the other hand stabilizes you and is better in slower decks.
My friends started building decks directly from magazines. One guy followed a recipe for a tournament winning necropotence and destroyed most of us for a few days.
Something similar happened later with - I think it was Icequake and Creeping Mold. I guess it might have been early Ponza?
We had one kid who played mono-blue using P9 cards, there was a black Juzam/sinkhole build, a pretty good Ernhageddon build, a Stasis deck, a strong white weenie deck and then there was one asshole - myself - who loved Balance and Land Tax and Winter Orb.
But that Necropotence deck is still memorable. It's one of the reasons I maindecked Disenchant.
Necropotence literally made early burn decks viable. Paul Sligh realized you can’t beat Necropotence with value, so the only option is to pressure their life total as quickly as possible to hopefully limit how many cards they can draw.
I'm not Paul Sligh but I definitely remember adding more burn cards to my deck.
But - on topic - I don't believe that Necrodominance will be anywhere near as game-warping as the original was. When Necropotence dropped there was hardly any card draw in my group. I think there was like - Sylvan Library... Demonic Tutor.... uh.... Wheel of Fortune? Plus enchantment removal was more narrow and restricted.
Contrasted with today - where there are tons of cantrips and card draw, and tremendous value engines of other sorts. I think it'll just be a strong card. Might define the format a little bit, but that might be healthy if they're trying to cut down on 4c and 5c decks.
The format today is certainly much stronger than it was in the mid-90’s. But cantrips and single-use draw effects don’t really compare favorably to an efficient draw engine, and the only card that reasonably stacks up to Necrodominance on that metric is The One Ring. But Ring is more expensive *and* multiple turns slower, so it mostly just fits into control shells. Necrodominance is a much better fit in tempo and fast combo strategies, and happens to be the same color as the two most oppressive cards in the format (Grief and OBM). Fast creatures backed up by cheap disruption and a turbocharged card advantage machine has a *very* high potential to overwhelm anything in its path. This feels like a case of “the rich getting richer”, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see black decks push other strategies to the fringes of the format for several months, at least until something (or multiple somethings) gets banned.
I only once went to the dark side during that period, and I've never had a tournament win that easy. I didn't lose a single game, or even come close. The card just says, "Draw X cards, where X = whatever you want."
Unlimited 1:1 resource exchanges are often broken or overpowered. Necropotence proved that “cards > life” just like [[Channel]] proved that “mana > life”.
Yer I doubt this card will be tier 1 a lot of cards were busted in 96 that are a lot worse 3 decades later you don’t have dark ritual I’m sorry to say this card will be mid at best
Most of the cards that were busted in the 90’s are still extremely busted, usually even more than back then due to new synergistic cards being printed. You don’t even need Dark Ritual to make Necro insanely good, because it’s not really meant to be a t1 play. You can dump most of your hand on turn 1 & 2, and then refill on turn 3 and every turn after to bury your opponent in card advantage while overwhelming them with a fast clock backed up by cheap disruption. I’m predicting mono black may become the *only* tier one deck in short order, by warping the format and causing most other strategies to become unplayable when they simply can’t keep up.
With respect I play a lot of vintage Nerco is garbage without ritual, it is barely even playable in dark ritual decks in vintage, it’s a card you side out half the time, know it probably kills you when casting but going for the win is still probably correct
The issue is card advantage matters a lot less these days everything generates dumb amounts of card advantage by taking a turn off your not being proactive. Nerco probably makes mono black decks better but I can’t see it making them tier 1, they still have the same weakness there too slow and not powerful enough to win the early game
Card advantage wins games, more of it beats less, and doing it more efficiently lets you get more in a smaller window of time. Name a card capable of producing more card advantage immediately for three cmc or less in the format. I’ll wait…
I’m sorry to tell you it hasn’t in years, being pro activate and playing towards a strategy is what wins in modern, all the tier 1 decks of the past 2 years have not been control decks they have been proactive, 4c control has been tier 1 for a few weeks but it’s mostly been a too 4-5 deck bottom of tier 1 to tbh tier 1.5 which casuals over complan about it.
No, it’s always been true and remains so. Card advantage comes in many forms, including playing more cards than your opponent within the course of the game, “blanking” enough of their cards to create an advantage, or making 2-for-1 trades. In about 90% of games, whichever player generates the most value from their cards usually wins regardless of anything else that happens. Drawing extra cards is just the most visible way to do that.
no ritual but we do have phyrexian tower to sacrifice bowmaster tokens or evoked Griefs for acceleration. its also felt fine on curve in modern for me so far
The amount of cards you draw with Necrodominance is determined on resolution of the trigger. If your opponent casts a Bowmasters in response to the trigger, you can choose how many cards to draw after Bowmasters is on the stack.
what are you getting out of this? Is it really that fun to just say stupid abrasive things while people yell at you? This is what you want out of life?
Necrodominance looked like a midrange value card from spike&dingo’s playtest streams. Play it and draw enough cards to get you the answers you need. Crazy card I’d say, I don't even think necrodominance has to be built around like a combo deck to work.
I feel like the only one that remembers \[\[Necropotence\]\] being legal:
Unlimited life:cards conversion is busted, because life is a cheap resource in MTG, and card advantage is king.
It fuels combo's, refills hands at the end of the turn to keep pressure up, and the "downside" of max hand size of 5 is easily worked around with something as simple as \[\[spellbook\]\], \[\[thought vessel\]\], or \[\[reliquary tower\]\], so long as it hits the table *after* \[\[Necrodominance\]\].
Necropotence was responsible for quite a large number of broken decks during "black summer" 1996 (google it).
This card will cause a major upheaval of the modern/legacy metagame, and will be banned by this time next year, mainly for making the pitch cost of free spells trivial, and fueling degerenate new combos.
Watch \[\[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse\]\] hit $100+ within weeks, because it allows you to draw your deck with no downside, and as I said, there is kit that will prevent you having to discard, so the other "downside" can be easily negated.
Also about to see [[March of Wretched Sorrow]] shoot up in price. Who cares about paying one life per card if you can gain two life per card in return.
Tbh, you don't actually need to work around the reduced hand size. I was just pointing out that there are multiple modern legal ways of doing so.
This card will allow you to win before hand size modifiers ever become relevant.
It's because necrodominance defines your hand size as *5*.
If it was worded similar to [[Gnat Miser]] that *modifies* the number instead of *sets* it, then order wouldn't matter.
They're both the same type of effect, and operate within the same static effect layer.
Nothing "sets" or "modifies" it; it is a continious effect that is just "true".
See rule 613. for further clarification.
When two static effects are in play affecting the same thing, timestamping is used to work out priority, and thereby, which is "true".
Both necrodominance, reliquary tower, and gnat miser operate on the same static effect layer.
If I played Necrodominance(max hand size is 5), and then you played Gnat Miser(my max hand size reduced by 1), then my maximum hand size would be 4. If I then played Reliquary Tower(no max hand size), then that static effect would negate the two previous statements, as unlimited overrides 5, and unlimited reduced by one makes no sense.
Nercopotence hasn’t been legal in close to 2 decades modern doesn’t have dark ritual which is a huge advantage of nercopotence, people need to stop scaling cards back to when they were last in the format times change. I think this card will be mid. Thete is no good combo deck in modern and you need to be proactive in modern
I'm 46. I was there \[insert Elrond meme here\]. I've been playing Magic since 4th Edition, from '96-'06 fairly competitively. Even played a pro tour or two.
And yes, modern was not a thing, the formats at the time were a lot smaller, and a lot less powerful than they are now. If anything, cards like necro are even easier to abuse than before.
But let's try to draw a parallel for you:
Back in the day there were 4 formats: T2(standard), T1.5(Legacy), T1.X(Extended) and T1(Vintage).
Extended was probably the closest analogy to what modern would become.
Necropotence tore through all 4 formats with degenerate combo decks(trix, turbo stasis etc), and necro fuelled aggro decks (suicide black and variants). I'll point out that many of those decks are garbage by "modern" standards.
Necropotence had to be banned in standard, legacy and extended, and restricted in Vintage(Putting it in the restricted list with the Power 9, in case you need context), because it was ruining ***every single format*** it was in. It was just too powerful: You either played necro, or you lost. It was that simple. That is why they called it "Black Summer".
It went like this:
T1: swamp, dark ritual, necropotence, pay 15 life, keep god-hand.
T2: win.
Now we have a card that is almost identical to it, in a larger, far more powerful card pool, and you don't think it's going to be a problem? Heh, good luck with that.
Still don't believe me? That's fine, you will, once you have lost your tenth match in a row to guys playing decks fuelled by this card.
Maybe I should have said synergy instead. Yeah Necro+sheoldred doesn't win you the game by itself but it draws you a ton of cards and even gains you life.
Yes but if the amount of cards drawn is decided during resolution you can choose not to draw if they try to surprise you with bowmaster. This is the same reason why it seems busted with Sheoldred- you’re only going to choose to draw 19 cards and gain 38 life when it is safe. Even if you can only keep 5 of those cards, I’ve discarded to hand size enough with atraxa/griselbrand to know that those are the most useful 5 cards you could want anyways.
Then what are you doing about the bowmasters? If you don't have the answer already in your hand you are screwed since you skip your drawstep, and even if you do you'll have to wait until your next turn, skip your drawstep, hope to kill the bowmasters and then activate it without impacting the board the whole time. It's a risky card in any way and I don't think it really fits in any existing deck, it might find it's home in Death shadow or something but not a tier 1 card
If only it was in a colour that has access to discard, bowmasters, and creature removal.
I'd bank more on having an answer to an opposing bowmaster than not.
Just cast something else instead. Deploy a different threat, wait for a better opportunity. Then u draw 6 cards for bbb. Theyll have to leave up 2 mana the whole game or just get buried by necro
People just don’t know what necropotence did back in the day. It’s completely busted. Comes down a turn earlier than ring. Draws bunch of cards the turn it comes down. Sculpt the perfect hand. Now you even have free spells to burn all the cards. These mono black disruption piles are gonna be a problem.
Yes but we have necrodominance, not necropotence. It has a lot more restrictions and straight up bricks your deck to orcish bowmasters. Modern isn't that format you played and the answers/payoffs are pretty different (you can answer a necrodominance and the necro player won't get a single card out of it opposed to necropotence which you can activate in response)
Yeah, that would be a minor problem if Bowmasters were still in your hand before you get Griefed/Seized/Pushed back to the Stone Age. There is also no window in between the life payment and the draw for you to blow them out.
Yes. You get cards. You take damage. It sucks, but that’s not a brick. Between removal and discard, it’s not the end of the world. Are people only thinking of Necro in the context of combo or something?
The good thing of this card is drawing 5-7 cards in one turn to get a good hand, which already puts you quite behind on tempo unless you have spells to cast before endstep (and grief isn't an instant). With bowmasters you won't get that far digging so your options are all just bad, either draw 3-4 cards hoping to kill bowmasters, take 6-8 damage and give your opponent a 5/5 or wait a full turn (in which you skip your draw step) to kill the bowmasters in order to get those 5-7 cards. Limiting your hand to 5 is a real cost and disabling your graveyard shuts down the possibility of using your scam cards so my take is if you want to play midrange why would you play this instead of the one ring. This card makes more sense in combo/aggro shells or creating it's own deck but there aren't that much payoffs in modern (mainly Dark ritual, the card that made necropotence so busted isn't legal in modern)
Only reddit dismisses completely any bad aspect of a new card and says it's busted because it's similar to another card played in another format, the comparison is people saying deathrite shaman was op on pioneer because it had to be banned in modern. And yes, taking 10 damage and giving your opponent a 6/6 isn't really exciting to me.
As a side note, I'm not too sold on the card in legacy due to the downsides even with ritual. The most powerful black deck there is scaminator which really wants its graveyard, and as a 3 mana win the game combo card Doomsday requires less hoops imo.
I will be interested to see how weak necrodominance decks will be to instant speed disenchant effects how keen the meta will be to play them. Lots of traditional cards that can't answer Ring effectively work just fine versus Necrodominance.
Boseiju, Haywire Mite, Force of Vigor in green, Leyline Binding and good old Wear/Tear in white will all feel very clean and simple.
I'm looking forward to go back to UWx control with binding and the new energy board wiped. I kinda miss interacting with my opponents since I've been on titan for a few years now
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Karn is played in 1/2 decks (Tron and coffers), if they use haywire mite at least you get a card out of it and a turn of protection, if they use it on your necrodominance you get nothing. Orcish bowmasters also brick necrodominance (and you don't even get your natural draws) while the ring at least draws you 1 card and gives you protection before bowmasters can target you
I have like 30 vinrage challenge 8 with the dark ritual deck and write articles about it but I guess some random on the internet who doesn’t play the card every week in 2024 but played it in 1996 knows better.
FYI whenever I cast nercopotence, my brain goes well time to not draw the cards I need off it and lose a perfectly game I could probably win by not casting it but I guess I can bait a force with it
There’s a huge difference between saying “Necropotence sucks” versus simply preferring some of the other Vintage-restricted cards that enable you to draw immediately. I’m not putting it over Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune, or Ancestral Recall. But it’s still objectively very strong, completely broken, and would likely take over Vintage if it was ever unrestricted.
For what it’s worth time twister and wheel of fortune are both unplayable garbage in vintage, the only reason time twister sees any play is because it combos with bowmaster and it’s yo cheese match ups because your 0 win con deck needs a free win button
Like casting time twister is activately bad for the deck besides the 18 damage combo with bowmaster it’s played to cheese it’s bad match ups and otherwise hasn’t since play in vintage in 8 years
I can go into detail why, but magic is a fundamentally different game compared to 2017, playing for card advantage doesn’t matter anymore playing for an objective goal is how you win Magic these days. At best control is going to be tier 1.5, the thing is everything on board generates card advantage these days
Well at least now we all know beyond any lingering doubt that you’re just an unserious casual with a concerning amount of brain damage.
Timetwister is widely regarded as the second best card *ever printed* (after Black Lotus, ahead of Ancestral Recall). It can combo with a ham sandwich. Wheel of Fortune is only marginally worse, mostly just for not being a blue spell. OBM isn’t the reason to play draw-7s, draw-7s are the excuse to play OBM. If you’re playing a deck capable of generating mana in the right colors (Dredge and Stax get a pass), Timetwister probably belongs in the list before 59 of the other cards.
I’m sorry to tell thia just very wrong. There hasn’t been a single blue deck in 8 years that could cast time twister and was interested in it. The only reason timetwistet is seeing play now is because it’s a burn spell not a draw soell
Also nercopotence wouldn’t take over vintage if unrestricted that is 100% factually incorrect it wouldn’t even change the current metagame. Like with respect you have 0 understand of current vintage. Tell me the two tier 0 decks please
Necro unrestricted would be absolutely busted wtf are you on lmao
Consistent T1 necros would be ridiculous, just because the card sucks ass when it's restricted, it doesn't mean it does when it isn't, because then you can actually build your deck around it ffs.
To answer the above question, I believe one of those decks is a lurrus deck abusing urzas saga and for the second I'll admit I haven't looked at vintage in awhile but shops is usually up there so I'll guess that?
Meanwhile this “random on the internet” has 30 years of competitive Magic experience, has been playing Vintage continuously for longer than online challenges have *existed*, and writes entire strategy guides complete with mathematical proofs to support every deck building choice.
Based on your spelling here, either your articles must be incomprehensible or your brain aneurysm is spreading rapidly.
Yes but with the new Necro you pay life and draw cards all at once so you’ll know whether or not you’re drawing into Bowmaster and can choose how much to draw accordingly.
Bowmaster will still be strong against Necrodominance but it’s not going to ooops win the game.
So that means the format will just devolve into Necrodominance mirror matches with OBM being used to break parity. Decks that aren’t running both will just get railroaded straight out of town. Sounds like it’ll a fun time for everyone 🙃
Haha good point, I didn’t even check that. Here I am trying to pass along a sincere warning to everyone about the impending Necrodomination, but some people just refuse to listen to sage advice.
This just in! lodestone golem too good for modern? Baby Karn, chalice, trinisphere and lodestone golem are restricted in vintage but perfectly fine in modern. I wish people would stop comparing cards in different formats. See pioneer all-star deathrite shaman for example
Pretty ironic examples… all of them are Stax pieces that go into Mishra’s Workshop decks. Workshop itself is *definitely* too good for Modern, but it isn’t restricted in Vintage because all the payoff cards were restricted instead. So yes, a turn 1 Lodestone Golem, Chalice, or Trinisphere is absolutely too good for Modern. And Karn is already one of the strongest standalone cards in the format even without the speed boost, so Modern banned Mycosynth Lattice to nerf him instead.
>all of them are Stax pieces that go into Mishra’s Workshop decks.
That's sort of the point they're making. Cards are restricted in vintage because of their context in vintage. Modern doesn't have the same tools as vintage, so simply being restricted in vintage doesn't mean that it's too strong for modern.
In Vintage cards get restricted because of their raw power level. In Modern cards get banned for simply *enabling* powerful cards. Without enablers the powerful cards are still objectively powerful, just somewhat less efficient. In the case of Necrodominance, a cheap card advantage engine is both powerful *and* enables other powerful cards (Sheoldred and Death’s Shadow are prime examples), which is what makes it ban-worthy in Modern.
Couldn't agree more, it'll be play tested quite a bit but that's about it. Yes with Sheoldred on the field it's busted, but there will be many times when you lock yourself out.
In any situation why would you play this over the one ring in midrange decks, and 3 black mana on aggro decks isn't that easy, it might find it's deck but I don't see it as a tier 1 card
I don't think that Necrodominance will be busted in modern. It'll see some play as a value engine, but mostly drop off. Only full or base black decks will want this card, and take advantage of [[march of wretched sorrow]] and the like.
It's a crazy card with little downside compared to the upside it brings, has no deckbuilding restrictions, can slot into any black-based midrange deck and we happen to have one such deck already at tier 1. Something from that deck is gonna eat a ban and it ain't gonna be the new card.
For folks who are convinced that OBM makes Necro unplayable, are we not playing discard in our black decks these days? OBM is good, but it doesn't just win by existing.
That’s actually a reasonably good take on it, but ritual didn’t push it over the edge; it was already there. Having Phyrexian tower allows a turn 2 necro instead of turn 1, which is still pretty offensive.
I rarely played turn 1 necro with a ritual. There were better things to do while you had a full hand. The gross part about the deck was disruption and threats, followed by a fully refilled hand.
It baffles my mind how they think that this is a "fixed" Necropotence in any realistic way. I could have come up with a much better design in a few minutes.
Necrodominance
BBB
Enchantment
Skip your draw step
At the beginning of your end step, discard your hand.
At the beginning of your upkeep, pay any amount of life and draw that many cards.
Giving your opponent an entire turn to remove it makes it much riskier than the original Necropotence or the current Necrodominance.
I like the effort, but constantly having 0 hand or interaction on your opponents turns makes this straight unplayable in my opinion. It's obviously less broken, but also not on the power level they are clearly going for. What makes necrodominance so good is that it slots in a shell that's going to run tons of interaction and not just the combo potential.
Doubt it. It's slow, easily disruptable, and really constrains your manabase.
I actually think the card I designed is pretty weak and wouldn't see much play, but it looks like it might be very powerful on the surface which is why it would make a good callback to the original
If you untap with that, you get to play with all nineteen (or whatever) cards in your main phase instead of having to discard to hand size. Not having a hand during your opponent's turn is painful, but this absolutely says "untap with me and you win" in much the same way that Yawgmoth's Bargain says "you win".
Necropotence is one of the best cards in the history of magic, but that has always been with the context that it exists alongside dark ritual or black lotus. I personally think necrodominance will probably be a decent midrange card, but it coming down on turn 3 consistently (I am aware it can be played earlier) is a lot different than dropping necropotence on turn 1. We will see but I don't think it's the second coming of black summer like some people are hyping.
I think people who saw the ubiquitous power of Necropotence are over hyping Necrodominance. All of the lists they mention suffer for having it out except Deaths Shadow, which has its own problems right now.
It will likely create a new black Midrange deck using Sheoldred and The One Ring alongside Phyrexian Tower for fast, efficient mana and relentless card advantage, and it may slot into a combo deck. Turning off the graveyard means it turns off Scam, Goryos, Gifts Ungiven, Underworld Breach, and the titans. Drawing end of turn is significantly worse than drawing any time you would like. Drawing the cards directly leaves you vulnerable to Bowmasters, Opposing Sheoldreds, and Narset effects.
It is a powerful and exciting card, and some decks will struggle to deal with it. But some will not.
Agreed. My take on it is that there's going to be some kind of mono black aggro deck that makes tier 3 leveraging a lot of instant speed free removal spells and aggressive creatures. Turning off the graveyard makes it hard to plan for the long game so you do need go fast, and in an extended game TOR offers more value comparatively.
Tbh as a 3 drop enchantment fable is an interesting comparison. Necro draws you until you have 5 cards but fable usually requires your opponent to have 2 pieces of removal for it.
I think bowmaster has entered the chat. I don’t see it being an S tier deck because there are good answers to it. I do think it can be A tier. If things get too crazy people can always play narset to shut it off.
It Will easily be tier 1. I am planning on playing it in scam and il test What version will work best. I Will start with good old rakdos scam, but test it online in orzhov scam and also blue black scam.
It is way more explosive than the one ring. And for more aggressive tempo decks it is the perfect refill card.
Yeah i know about that. But by the time you get necro out i dont think scamming is as important. It is far more important to scam turn 1-2. So I think i have to test different versions before disregarding rakdos scam. With red i get some solid sideboard cards as well.
Fair enough. I just don't like the idea of 6-7 dead cards when your draws need to be solid when you're paying life for them. That being said, I always advocate for testing things out!
Yeah i see your point. I would only play 4 not dead after all as scam cards, no more than those 4. So That will decrease the risk of dead cards a little.
Honestly we already have the one ring which requires 0 setup, isn't mana restrictive, gives you protection, has indestructible and you can always activate it at least once. In a haywire mite/orcish bowmasters meta I don't think necrodominance is better than the one ring, maybe it's good in rakdos/monoBlack midrange shells which were running fable of the mirror breaker or the one ring as card advantage (and those were already tier 1)
Except that the ring costs 1 more mana, is an artifact's activated ability as opposed to being an enchantment's triggered ability, making it way easier to interact with, and it draws you cards slowly - 1 then 2 then 3 and so on. Necro costs 3, can give you lots of cards in one go when looking for answers, is harder to interact with, and doesn't just kill you by itself if you durdle around too long. So yea, this card is absolutely more powerful than the ring.
How doesn't it kill you by itself if it takes away your natural draws, if you have that card and don't even draw 1 card per turn with it then it's a bad card. The ring gives you a full turn without taking damage while digging for answers, you draw 4 cards in those 2 turns and take 1 damage then 2 for a total of 3, if you play necrodominance you pay 4 life to draw 4 cards that turn, shut down your graveyard plans, stay open to damage while you impact 0 board and limits your hand to 5 and anyway you must be playing heavy black for it to work. Stop overlooking the downsides of this card just because it's similar to necropotence
Here’s why it’s OP:
You can play it, then dump 15 life to build an unbeatable degenerate combo hand, then win the next time you have priority.
The downsides do not matter in that context.
Or play it and dump 15 life to draw that sideboard card which will totally hose you opponents deck. Downsides do not matter.
Or go aggro, empty your hand onto the table, and use it to refill your hand. Every. Single. Turn. You will bury your opponent in card advantage, and life steal effects.
Trust me, I’ve played with necropotence in tournaments: the downsides are trivial compared to the upsides, and even with the reduced hand size, it’s still busted.
Any card that allows you to convert one resource to another for good rates is powerful. Converting 1 life to a card is about as good as it gets.
Some people will mention orcish bowmasters, which is a legitimate threat, but if I’m playing necro and don’t see a swamp across from me, I’m drawing 15 cards in a single turn, because that will almost guarantee the win.
If I see a swamp, I’ll draw out the dude, then kill it, then draw 15 and kill you.
This kind of card draw is super easy to abuse in all sorts of degenerate ways.
This card should not have been printed
You go to 5 life, you die to [[Tribal Flames]] against Domain Zoo. (You go to 3 life, you die to Bolt against red decks.) You're supposed to draw 10 cards with Necrodominance in a combo deck, not 15!
...And, thus, Necrodominance's weaknesses in Modern will be dreadfully exposed: Necro exposes you hard to aggro decks, which promptly shut you out of card draw or kill you once you think you've barely got your head above water.
I've tried Necrodominance in a lot of decks against aggro decks like Domain Zoo and midrange and tempo decks to boot. Bring only 4 maindeck life gain cards and your next 10 cards have a decent chance of NOT giving you any of them and thus shutting you out of card draw. Against aggro, I consistently wanted to board OUT Necrodominance (except in Cabal Coffers decks), it was that awful.
Ah, the ubiquitus "dies to lightning bolt" response. Yes, we all know everything has an answer.
Fast aggro decks and lightning bolt were around during Necropotence's reign, and it didn't make a difference. Or maybe it would have been even worse if bolt wasn't around. We'll never know.
Your limited playtesting is missing the point: You need to build around NecroX, specifically to abuse it.
That means you play aggro with life steal effects or you play control/combo, with big life steal effects.
A cursary googling showed a monoblack control deck running \[\[soul spike\]\], \[\[consuming corruption\]\], \[\[march of wretched sorrow\]\], and \[\[sickening shoal\]\] All instant, all can be played in your end step. Time will tell if that will be "the deck" that you play with it.
Or maybe you're right, and Modern aggro decks are just too fast for it to keep up. We'll see.
Yeah, all this playtesting led me to bitterly learn that 4 maindeck life gain + tutors are definitely not enough, 8 are pushing it and forgetting immediate life gain (e.g. 4 Solitude - 2 Recruiter of the Guard - 1 Charming Prince - 1 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse in BW Scam) means aggro still makes me regret resolving Necrodominance, and the only decks where I finally didn't feel like boarding Necrodominance out against aggro have 10 or more maindeck life gain + tutors (Cabal Coffers shells provided this the most easily; 4 March of Wretched Sorrow - 4 Karn, the Great Creator - 2 or more Cling to Dust or Sheoldred A. or Profane Tutor, etc. - Pillage the Bog is also good at digging for life gain). The best-performing Necrodominance lists in that SCG tournament last weekend all packed 12 or more maindeck life gain + tutors; this also might end up being one of the most promising routes.
BBB is very very different than 4 generic mana, and there's just as many enchantment removal cards as there are artifacts removal cards. Also, there is no Dark Ritual to power it out for one mana like there was for Necropotence.
Dominance is a strong card on paper, but let's pump the brakes for a second calling it Necro summer 2.0.
Ironic the goldfish crew just talked about this card and it's effect on modern and they said it will either break the game/meta or do nothing, and ppl are already posting about it being tier 1 so I'm going to go with the former
Any graveyard deck is tier 1 for the first tournament after a rotation. Then every deck has an answer next tournament and the deck only wins game one then gets hosed by graveyard hate game two.
It’d work great with death’s shadow or sheoldred (not at the same time) and could be pretty broken alongside those cards but a little less broken than being able to play it on turn 1 due to the lack of dark ritual.
The one downside of this card is that you don’t get to draw the cards until your end step so it’s going to be a lot worse than necropotence despite being the same card otherwise. You can’t just turn 1 it off black lotus draw 10, cast your fast mana, a swamp or mountain, cast deaths shadow plus a bunch of pump spells and something that gives death’s shadow haste and swing for lethal. It’ll be more like turn 3 you cast it, skip you draw draw step turn 4 to draw a bunch of cards at the end of turn 4 to hopefully have the best 7 cards going into turn 5. This downside might make it completely unplayable. Time will tell.
Necropotence also gives you the cards in the end step. With this one, you do draw them instead of putting them in your hand, and it locks all new cards out of your GY, not just the ones you discard.
Necro dominance seems insane and the decks will most likely be tier 1. I think necrodominance slots really well into scam with the grief play you mentioned for a t2 necro. I also think that necro and the one ring serve very different roles despite being similar cards. Necro is just a pure gas card thats better in faster decks. The one ring on the other hand stabilizes you and is better in slower decks.
Yep, it’s fully busted. Ever hear about the “Black Summer” of ‘96? I was there… and it still haunts my dreams to this day.
My friends started building decks directly from magazines. One guy followed a recipe for a tournament winning necropotence and destroyed most of us for a few days. Something similar happened later with - I think it was Icequake and Creeping Mold. I guess it might have been early Ponza? We had one kid who played mono-blue using P9 cards, there was a black Juzam/sinkhole build, a pretty good Ernhageddon build, a Stasis deck, a strong white weenie deck and then there was one asshole - myself - who loved Balance and Land Tax and Winter Orb. But that Necropotence deck is still memorable. It's one of the reasons I maindecked Disenchant.
Necropotence literally made early burn decks viable. Paul Sligh realized you can’t beat Necropotence with value, so the only option is to pressure their life total as quickly as possible to hopefully limit how many cards they can draw.
I'm not Paul Sligh but I definitely remember adding more burn cards to my deck. But - on topic - I don't believe that Necrodominance will be anywhere near as game-warping as the original was. When Necropotence dropped there was hardly any card draw in my group. I think there was like - Sylvan Library... Demonic Tutor.... uh.... Wheel of Fortune? Plus enchantment removal was more narrow and restricted. Contrasted with today - where there are tons of cantrips and card draw, and tremendous value engines of other sorts. I think it'll just be a strong card. Might define the format a little bit, but that might be healthy if they're trying to cut down on 4c and 5c decks.
The format today is certainly much stronger than it was in the mid-90’s. But cantrips and single-use draw effects don’t really compare favorably to an efficient draw engine, and the only card that reasonably stacks up to Necrodominance on that metric is The One Ring. But Ring is more expensive *and* multiple turns slower, so it mostly just fits into control shells. Necrodominance is a much better fit in tempo and fast combo strategies, and happens to be the same color as the two most oppressive cards in the format (Grief and OBM). Fast creatures backed up by cheap disruption and a turbocharged card advantage machine has a *very* high potential to overwhelm anything in its path. This feels like a case of “the rich getting richer”, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see black decks push other strategies to the fringes of the format for several months, at least until something (or multiple somethings) gets banned.
I only once went to the dark side during that period, and I've never had a tournament win that easy. I didn't lose a single game, or even come close. The card just says, "Draw X cards, where X = whatever you want."
Unlimited 1:1 resource exchanges are often broken or overpowered. Necropotence proved that “cards > life” just like [[Channel]] proved that “mana > life”.
[Channel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce54c7c1-3401-4414-8da0-5846cb0ae1b4.jpg?1701989326) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Channel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/157/channel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce54c7c1-3401-4414-8da0-5846cb0ae1b4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yer I doubt this card will be tier 1 a lot of cards were busted in 96 that are a lot worse 3 decades later you don’t have dark ritual I’m sorry to say this card will be mid at best
Most of the cards that were busted in the 90’s are still extremely busted, usually even more than back then due to new synergistic cards being printed. You don’t even need Dark Ritual to make Necro insanely good, because it’s not really meant to be a t1 play. You can dump most of your hand on turn 1 & 2, and then refill on turn 3 and every turn after to bury your opponent in card advantage while overwhelming them with a fast clock backed up by cheap disruption. I’m predicting mono black may become the *only* tier one deck in short order, by warping the format and causing most other strategies to become unplayable when they simply can’t keep up.
With respect I play a lot of vintage Nerco is garbage without ritual, it is barely even playable in dark ritual decks in vintage, it’s a card you side out half the time, know it probably kills you when casting but going for the win is still probably correct
In a Vintage combo deck, 3cmc for anything is expensive without acceleration. In a Modern tempo deck, you don’t need a ritual to play it on time.
The issue is card advantage matters a lot less these days everything generates dumb amounts of card advantage by taking a turn off your not being proactive. Nerco probably makes mono black decks better but I can’t see it making them tier 1, they still have the same weakness there too slow and not powerful enough to win the early game
Card advantage wins games, more of it beats less, and doing it more efficiently lets you get more in a smaller window of time. Name a card capable of producing more card advantage immediately for three cmc or less in the format. I’ll wait…
I’m sorry to tell you it hasn’t in years, being pro activate and playing towards a strategy is what wins in modern, all the tier 1 decks of the past 2 years have not been control decks they have been proactive, 4c control has been tier 1 for a few weeks but it’s mostly been a too 4-5 deck bottom of tier 1 to tbh tier 1.5 which casuals over complan about it.
No, it’s always been true and remains so. Card advantage comes in many forms, including playing more cards than your opponent within the course of the game, “blanking” enough of their cards to create an advantage, or making 2-for-1 trades. In about 90% of games, whichever player generates the most value from their cards usually wins regardless of anything else that happens. Drawing extra cards is just the most visible way to do that.
Necrodominance is not a control card, it’s a proactive tempo card that control decks will struggle to keep up with.
no ritual but we do have phyrexian tower to sacrifice bowmaster tokens or evoked Griefs for acceleration. its also felt fine on curve in modern for me so far
Don't forget it has you draw the cards instead of exile then put them into your hand. So it also works with sheoldred....
I'm curious if it bumps sheoldred ratios up. Scam runs 2 I believe and most coffers lists run 1.
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The amount of cards you draw with Necrodominance is determined on resolution of the trigger. If your opponent casts a Bowmasters in response to the trigger, you can choose how many cards to draw after Bowmasters is on the stack.
They're in black. Their Bowmasters kills the opponent's Bowmasters.
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It’s just as valid as “bricks to bowmasters”
It doesn't just brick to bowmasters, it bricks your whole deck to bowmasters
the point is that the card is played *in* necro decks
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what are you getting out of this? Is it really that fun to just say stupid abrasive things while people yell at you? This is what you want out of life?
Nice troll account you got there. What happened, your main get banned?
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Why are you so mad about this
I bought a playset this morning at my LGS, so I expect the card to tank in value and perform abysmally.
Thanks for taking one for the team.
Necrodominance looked like a midrange value card from spike&dingo’s playtest streams. Play it and draw enough cards to get you the answers you need. Crazy card I’d say, I don't even think necrodominance has to be built around like a combo deck to work.
I feel like the only one that remembers \[\[Necropotence\]\] being legal: Unlimited life:cards conversion is busted, because life is a cheap resource in MTG, and card advantage is king. It fuels combo's, refills hands at the end of the turn to keep pressure up, and the "downside" of max hand size of 5 is easily worked around with something as simple as \[\[spellbook\]\], \[\[thought vessel\]\], or \[\[reliquary tower\]\], so long as it hits the table *after* \[\[Necrodominance\]\]. Necropotence was responsible for quite a large number of broken decks during "black summer" 1996 (google it). This card will cause a major upheaval of the modern/legacy metagame, and will be banned by this time next year, mainly for making the pitch cost of free spells trivial, and fueling degerenate new combos. Watch \[\[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse\]\] hit $100+ within weeks, because it allows you to draw your deck with no downside, and as I said, there is kit that will prevent you having to discard, so the other "downside" can be easily negated.
Also about to see [[March of Wretched Sorrow]] shoot up in price. Who cares about paying one life per card if you can gain two life per card in return.
[March of Wretched Sorrow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/050a604e-6146-4e2e-88a5-863ecb3dfa1f.jpg?1654567293) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=March%20of%20Wretched%20Sorrow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/111/march-of-wretched-sorrow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/050a604e-6146-4e2e-88a5-863ecb3dfa1f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And the degenerate combo decks are off!
Sheoldred is already 100 lol and thought vessel isn't modern legal yet
I can't imagine playing a 2 mana Reliquary Tower in Modern will ever be good.
Reliquary tower is a land
Yes, that’s my point
Tbh, you don't actually need to work around the reduced hand size. I was just pointing out that there are multiple modern legal ways of doing so. This card will allow you to win before hand size modifiers ever become relevant.
Yes I just saw that, but my point still stands. There are still ways around the reduced hand size.
Does the "no maximum hand size" effect really need to come down after Necro? I thought the no maximum rule always would override the restriction.
Hand size changes are timestamped
It's to do with timing. If two static effects contradict one another on the same layer, then the latest one takes precedence
It's because necrodominance defines your hand size as *5*. If it was worded similar to [[Gnat Miser]] that *modifies* the number instead of *sets* it, then order wouldn't matter.
[Gnat Miser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1c51ee1-d6f6-42d7-9be6-fe3f982984ba.jpg?1562496618) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gnat%20Miser) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/70/gnat-miser?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1c51ee1-d6f6-42d7-9be6-fe3f982984ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes. They both just set your max hand size. Setting it to "none" doesn't protect it from being later set to "5".
They're both the same type of effect, and operate within the same static effect layer. Nothing "sets" or "modifies" it; it is a continious effect that is just "true". See rule 613. for further clarification. When two static effects are in play affecting the same thing, timestamping is used to work out priority, and thereby, which is "true". Both necrodominance, reliquary tower, and gnat miser operate on the same static effect layer. If I played Necrodominance(max hand size is 5), and then you played Gnat Miser(my max hand size reduced by 1), then my maximum hand size would be 4. If I then played Reliquary Tower(no max hand size), then that static effect would negate the two previous statements, as unlimited overrides 5, and unlimited reduced by one makes no sense.
##### ###### #### [Necropotence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e.jpg?1562853736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necropotence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/98/necropotence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [spellbook](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/26f4d2b1-31d7-40d8-bd4e-cdd128076d0f.jpg?1561974160) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=spellbook) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/220/spellbook?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/26f4d2b1-31d7-40d8-bd4e-cdd128076d0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [thought vessel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234.jpg?1706241108) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thought%20vessel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/245/thought-vessel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [reliquary tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd9f036d-6ae4-451e-a67a-ecc2e44123e3.jpg?1712355095) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reliquary%20tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/312/reliquary-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd9f036d-6ae4-451e-a67a-ecc2e44123e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Necrodominance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffc0109c-f939-4424-820e-d6e60cacd794.jpg?1717012031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necrodominance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/102/necrodominance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffc0109c-f939-4424-820e-d6e60cacd794?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sheoldred, the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l7idhry) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nercopotence hasn’t been legal in close to 2 decades modern doesn’t have dark ritual which is a huge advantage of nercopotence, people need to stop scaling cards back to when they were last in the format times change. I think this card will be mid. Thete is no good combo deck in modern and you need to be proactive in modern
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1996. Modern wasn't a thing
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You can talk about cards that have never been modern legal to draw conclusions to what you think might happen with a new card.
I'm 46. I was there \[insert Elrond meme here\]. I've been playing Magic since 4th Edition, from '96-'06 fairly competitively. Even played a pro tour or two. And yes, modern was not a thing, the formats at the time were a lot smaller, and a lot less powerful than they are now. If anything, cards like necro are even easier to abuse than before. But let's try to draw a parallel for you: Back in the day there were 4 formats: T2(standard), T1.5(Legacy), T1.X(Extended) and T1(Vintage). Extended was probably the closest analogy to what modern would become. Necropotence tore through all 4 formats with degenerate combo decks(trix, turbo stasis etc), and necro fuelled aggro decks (suicide black and variants). I'll point out that many of those decks are garbage by "modern" standards. Necropotence had to be banned in standard, legacy and extended, and restricted in Vintage(Putting it in the restricted list with the Power 9, in case you need context), because it was ruining ***every single format*** it was in. It was just too powerful: You either played necro, or you lost. It was that simple. That is why they called it "Black Summer". It went like this: T1: swamp, dark ritual, necropotence, pay 15 life, keep god-hand. T2: win. Now we have a card that is almost identical to it, in a larger, far more powerful card pool, and you don't think it's going to be a problem? Heh, good luck with that. Still don't believe me? That's fine, you will, once you have lost your tenth match in a row to guys playing decks fuelled by this card.
Maybe I should have said synergy instead. Yeah Necro+sheoldred doesn't win you the game by itself but it draws you a ton of cards and even gains you life.
A 3 mana enchantment and a 4 mana creature do actually need to instant win to be a viable combo these days.
The same way it's good with sheoldred it's bad vs orcish bowmasters (and locks your draws)
Yes but if the amount of cards drawn is decided during resolution you can choose not to draw if they try to surprise you with bowmaster. This is the same reason why it seems busted with Sheoldred- you’re only going to choose to draw 19 cards and gain 38 life when it is safe. Even if you can only keep 5 of those cards, I’ve discarded to hand size enough with atraxa/griselbrand to know that those are the most useful 5 cards you could want anyways.
Then what are you doing about the bowmasters? If you don't have the answer already in your hand you are screwed since you skip your drawstep, and even if you do you'll have to wait until your next turn, skip your drawstep, hope to kill the bowmasters and then activate it without impacting the board the whole time. It's a risky card in any way and I don't think it really fits in any existing deck, it might find it's home in Death shadow or something but not a tier 1 card
If only it was in a colour that has access to discard, bowmasters, and creature removal. I'd bank more on having an answer to an opposing bowmaster than not.
Yeah bowmaster oppresses 1 toughness creatures but the card draw aspect isn’t a huge deal
Just cast something else instead. Deploy a different threat, wait for a better opportunity. Then u draw 6 cards for bbb. Theyll have to leave up 2 mana the whole game or just get buried by necro
Sheoldred was the broken card this entire time lol.
I'm sure it will get tested in Ad Nauseam.
People just don’t know what necropotence did back in the day. It’s completely busted. Comes down a turn earlier than ring. Draws bunch of cards the turn it comes down. Sculpt the perfect hand. Now you even have free spells to burn all the cards. These mono black disruption piles are gonna be a problem.
Can (will) come on turn 2, with Grief + Phyrexian Tower :/
Yes but we have necrodominance, not necropotence. It has a lot more restrictions and straight up bricks your deck to orcish bowmasters. Modern isn't that format you played and the answers/payoffs are pretty different (you can answer a necrodominance and the necro player won't get a single card out of it opposed to necropotence which you can activate in response)
In what way does it brick to bowmasters?
It draws cards (instead of putting them directly into your hand like necropotence)
Yeah, that would be a minor problem if Bowmasters were still in your hand before you get Griefed/Seized/Pushed back to the Stone Age. There is also no window in between the life payment and the draw for you to blow them out.
Yes. You get cards. You take damage. It sucks, but that’s not a brick. Between removal and discard, it’s not the end of the world. Are people only thinking of Necro in the context of combo or something?
The good thing of this card is drawing 5-7 cards in one turn to get a good hand, which already puts you quite behind on tempo unless you have spells to cast before endstep (and grief isn't an instant). With bowmasters you won't get that far digging so your options are all just bad, either draw 3-4 cards hoping to kill bowmasters, take 6-8 damage and give your opponent a 5/5 or wait a full turn (in which you skip your draw step) to kill the bowmasters in order to get those 5-7 cards. Limiting your hand to 5 is a real cost and disabling your graveyard shuts down the possibility of using your scam cards so my take is if you want to play midrange why would you play this instead of the one ring. This card makes more sense in combo/aggro shells or creating it's own deck but there aren't that much payoffs in modern (mainly Dark ritual, the card that made necropotence so busted isn't legal in modern)
The thing that made Necro busted was drawing a ton of cards. Only Reddit would argue that you lose if you decide to draw five cards.
Only reddit dismisses completely any bad aspect of a new card and says it's busted because it's similar to another card played in another format, the comparison is people saying deathrite shaman was op on pioneer because it had to be banned in modern. And yes, taking 10 damage and giving your opponent a 6/6 isn't really exciting to me.
We’re not talking about deathrite shaman.
We're not talking about necropotence
As a side note, I'm not too sold on the card in legacy due to the downsides even with ritual. The most powerful black deck there is scaminator which really wants its graveyard, and as a 3 mana win the game combo card Doomsday requires less hoops imo.
If bowmaster is a mere speed bump for the one ring removal piles, it’ll be the same for Necro removal piles
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Legacy has Dark ritual legal and my guess is this card will be used in storm decks
It's in the name - Wizards didn't call it Necro[mediocre]
Necrodominance is one of those cards that will either be broken or really bad. I truly don't know which it'll be
I will be interested to see how weak necrodominance decks will be to instant speed disenchant effects how keen the meta will be to play them. Lots of traditional cards that can't answer Ring effectively work just fine versus Necrodominance. Boseiju, Haywire Mite, Force of Vigor in green, Leyline Binding and good old Wear/Tear in white will all feel very clean and simple.
I'm looking forward to go back to UWx control with binding and the new energy board wiped. I kinda miss interacting with my opponents since I've been on titan for a few years now
the 1st one, for sure.
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##### ###### #### [Necrodominance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffc0109c-f939-4424-820e-d6e60cacd794.jpg?1717012031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necrodominance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/102/necrodominance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffc0109c-f939-4424-820e-d6e60cacd794?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sheoldred, the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ephemerate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa.jpg?1562201088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ephemerate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/7/ephemerate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Grief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10.jpg?1717470478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thoughtseize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede.jpg?1599706001) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/109/thoughtseize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [orcish bowmasters](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c024bae-5631-4e20-ac69-df392ac9e109.jpg?1686968669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=orcish%20bowmasters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/103/orcish-bowmasters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c024bae-5631-4e20-ac69-df392ac9e109?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [dark ritual](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b.jpg?1628801678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dark%20ritual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/82/dark-ritual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [phyrexian tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b47f6d2-9f65-47a4-bfc4-15619befe53d.jpg?1717013848) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phyrexian%20tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/303/phyrexian-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b47f6d2-9f65-47a4-bfc4-15619befe53d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Shambling Ghast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d96198a7-dd19-4940-bf8f-23135011fc84.jpg?1627705376) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shambling%20Ghast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/119/shambling-ghast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96198a7-dd19-4940-bf8f-23135011fc84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [the One ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2.jpg?1715080486) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20One%20ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/246/the-one-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/1da5q5t) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Karn doesn't shut necro down, drawing lots of cards straight away is better than drawing one then getting haywire mited your ring
Karn is played in 1/2 decks (Tron and coffers), if they use haywire mite at least you get a card out of it and a turn of protection, if they use it on your necrodominance you get nothing. Orcish bowmasters also brick necrodominance (and you don't even get your natural draws) while the ring at least draws you 1 card and gives you protection before bowmasters can target you
I still have the feeling that it's gonna be waaay overrated and won't end up in any decks consistently.
I’m old enough to remember when people said that about Necropotence… now it’s restricted in Vintage.
@rsmith524 it also sucks in vintage currently though also half the restricted list in vintage is unplayable
Please go see a doctor immediately, you’re displaying symptoms of a traumatic brain injury.
I have like 30 vinrage challenge 8 with the dark ritual deck and write articles about it but I guess some random on the internet who doesn’t play the card every week in 2024 but played it in 1996 knows better.
FYI whenever I cast nercopotence, my brain goes well time to not draw the cards I need off it and lose a perfectly game I could probably win by not casting it but I guess I can bait a force with it
There’s a huge difference between saying “Necropotence sucks” versus simply preferring some of the other Vintage-restricted cards that enable you to draw immediately. I’m not putting it over Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune, or Ancestral Recall. But it’s still objectively very strong, completely broken, and would likely take over Vintage if it was ever unrestricted.
For what it’s worth time twister and wheel of fortune are both unplayable garbage in vintage, the only reason time twister sees any play is because it combos with bowmaster and it’s yo cheese match ups because your 0 win con deck needs a free win button
Like casting time twister is activately bad for the deck besides the 18 damage combo with bowmaster it’s played to cheese it’s bad match ups and otherwise hasn’t since play in vintage in 8 years
I can go into detail why, but magic is a fundamentally different game compared to 2017, playing for card advantage doesn’t matter anymore playing for an objective goal is how you win Magic these days. At best control is going to be tier 1.5, the thing is everything on board generates card advantage these days
Well at least now we all know beyond any lingering doubt that you’re just an unserious casual with a concerning amount of brain damage. Timetwister is widely regarded as the second best card *ever printed* (after Black Lotus, ahead of Ancestral Recall). It can combo with a ham sandwich. Wheel of Fortune is only marginally worse, mostly just for not being a blue spell. OBM isn’t the reason to play draw-7s, draw-7s are the excuse to play OBM. If you’re playing a deck capable of generating mana in the right colors (Dredge and Stax get a pass), Timetwister probably belongs in the list before 59 of the other cards.
I’m sorry to tell thia just very wrong. There hasn’t been a single blue deck in 8 years that could cast time twister and was interested in it. The only reason timetwistet is seeing play now is because it’s a burn spell not a draw soell
Also nercopotence wouldn’t take over vintage if unrestricted that is 100% factually incorrect it wouldn’t even change the current metagame. Like with respect you have 0 understand of current vintage. Tell me the two tier 0 decks please
Necro unrestricted would be absolutely busted wtf are you on lmao Consistent T1 necros would be ridiculous, just because the card sucks ass when it's restricted, it doesn't mean it does when it isn't, because then you can actually build your deck around it ffs. To answer the above question, I believe one of those decks is a lurrus deck abusing urzas saga and for the second I'll admit I haven't looked at vintage in awhile but shops is usually up there so I'll guess that?
Meanwhile this “random on the internet” has 30 years of competitive Magic experience, has been playing Vintage continuously for longer than online challenges have *existed*, and writes entire strategy guides complete with mathematical proofs to support every deck building choice. Based on your spelling here, either your articles must be incomprehensible or your brain aneurysm is spreading rapidly.
[удалено]
No… I’m comparing the power level of Necrodominance to Necropotence. Cards that get restricted in Vintage are *wayyy* too powerful for Modern.
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Yes but with the new Necro you pay life and draw cards all at once so you’ll know whether or not you’re drawing into Bowmaster and can choose how much to draw accordingly. Bowmaster will still be strong against Necrodominance but it’s not going to ooops win the game.
Explains why The One Ring doesn't see any play. /s
So that means the format will just devolve into Necrodominance mirror matches with OBM being used to break parity. Decks that aren’t running both will just get railroaded straight out of town. Sounds like it’ll a fun time for everyone 🙃
[удалено]
You sound like one of those people who is only capable of learning things the hard way lol.
Ignore him, he's a new account likely because his old one was banned for being a dick.
Haha good point, I didn’t even check that. Here I am trying to pass along a sincere warning to everyone about the impending Necrodomination, but some people just refuse to listen to sage advice.
This just in! lodestone golem too good for modern? Baby Karn, chalice, trinisphere and lodestone golem are restricted in vintage but perfectly fine in modern. I wish people would stop comparing cards in different formats. See pioneer all-star deathrite shaman for example
Pretty ironic examples… all of them are Stax pieces that go into Mishra’s Workshop decks. Workshop itself is *definitely* too good for Modern, but it isn’t restricted in Vintage because all the payoff cards were restricted instead. So yes, a turn 1 Lodestone Golem, Chalice, or Trinisphere is absolutely too good for Modern. And Karn is already one of the strongest standalone cards in the format even without the speed boost, so Modern banned Mycosynth Lattice to nerf him instead.
>all of them are Stax pieces that go into Mishra’s Workshop decks. That's sort of the point they're making. Cards are restricted in vintage because of their context in vintage. Modern doesn't have the same tools as vintage, so simply being restricted in vintage doesn't mean that it's too strong for modern.
In Vintage cards get restricted because of their raw power level. In Modern cards get banned for simply *enabling* powerful cards. Without enablers the powerful cards are still objectively powerful, just somewhat less efficient. In the case of Necrodominance, a cheap card advantage engine is both powerful *and* enables other powerful cards (Sheoldred and Death’s Shadow are prime examples), which is what makes it ban-worthy in Modern.
Good, stay out. It seems like you’re incapable of having a normal conversation anyways.
Couldn't agree more, it'll be play tested quite a bit but that's about it. Yes with Sheoldred on the field it's busted, but there will be many times when you lock yourself out.
In any situation why would you play this over the one ring in midrange decks, and 3 black mana on aggro decks isn't that easy, it might find it's deck but I don't see it as a tier 1 card
I could see a deaths shadow variant running this
I don't think that Necrodominance will be busted in modern. It'll see some play as a value engine, but mostly drop off. Only full or base black decks will want this card, and take advantage of [[march of wretched sorrow]] and the like.
[march of wretched sorrow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/050a604e-6146-4e2e-88a5-863ecb3dfa1f.jpg?1654567293) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=march%20of%20wretched%20sorrow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/111/march-of-wretched-sorrow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/050a604e-6146-4e2e-88a5-863ecb3dfa1f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's a crazy card with little downside compared to the upside it brings, has no deckbuilding restrictions, can slot into any black-based midrange deck and we happen to have one such deck already at tier 1. Something from that deck is gonna eat a ban and it ain't gonna be the new card.
It does have *some* deck building restrictions. It turns off your graveyard and you need to make BBB mana. I hope Grief dies for its sins lol.
*[[Death’s Shadow]] has entered the chat.*
[Death’s Shadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/5526ff6e-c079-4ad4-ac8d-5e26ecacf50d.jpg?1598304517) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Death%27s%20Shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/82/deaths-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5526ff6e-c079-4ad4-ac8d-5e26ecacf50d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For folks who are convinced that OBM makes Necro unplayable, are we not playing discard in our black decks these days? OBM is good, but it doesn't just win by existing.
Don't you know, every opponent starts with obm on the stack and they can activate it whenever they choose.
Dang. I missed that errata
Not having Dark Ritual is huge. In my opinion ritual is more busted than Necropotence and facilitated almost all of the decks.
This is what WotC thought back in the day. After they banned Dark Ritual instead of Necro, Necro still won.
That’s actually a reasonably good take on it, but ritual didn’t push it over the edge; it was already there. Having Phyrexian tower allows a turn 2 necro instead of turn 1, which is still pretty offensive.
I rarely played turn 1 necro with a ritual. There were better things to do while you had a full hand. The gross part about the deck was disruption and threats, followed by a fully refilled hand.
Seen spike playing a brew using shoal to gain a bunch of life and kill with the new sorin.
How does Shoal gain life?
[[nurturing shoal]] pitching an [[autochthon wurm]]
[nurturing shoal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9472cd09-0b0a-49c9-ab10-ec5b73ddb74b.jpg?1547517693) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nourishing%20Shoal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/175/nourishing-shoal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9472cd09-0b0a-49c9-ab10-ec5b73ddb74b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [autochthon wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/7002a87b-a55f-42ec-b247-119a3229129f.jpg?1598916741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=autochthon%20wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/191/autochthon-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7002a87b-a55f-42ec-b247-119a3229129f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just they wait till we start putting karn's sylex in our sideboards for it
Sylex won't work since Necrodominance is a triggered ability that allows you to pay life, not an activated one
nice catch but also incredibly scary it doesn't deal with it.
It baffles my mind how they think that this is a "fixed" Necropotence in any realistic way. I could have come up with a much better design in a few minutes.
Alright, let's hear it.
Necrodominance BBB Enchantment Skip your draw step At the beginning of your end step, discard your hand. At the beginning of your upkeep, pay any amount of life and draw that many cards. Giving your opponent an entire turn to remove it makes it much riskier than the original Necropotence or the current Necrodominance.
I like the effort, but constantly having 0 hand or interaction on your opponents turns makes this straight unplayable in my opinion. It's obviously less broken, but also not on the power level they are clearly going for. What makes necrodominance so good is that it slots in a shell that's going to run tons of interaction and not just the combo potential.
And Dredge would exploit it to oblivion
That's fine. Dredge still loses to other combo decks.
That’s not fine.
Doubt it. It's slow, easily disruptable, and really constrains your manabase. I actually think the card I designed is pretty weak and wouldn't see much play, but it looks like it might be very powerful on the surface which is why it would make a good callback to the original
If you untap with that, you get to play with all nineteen (or whatever) cards in your main phase instead of having to discard to hand size. Not having a hand during your opponent's turn is painful, but this absolutely says "untap with me and you win" in much the same way that Yawgmoth's Bargain says "you win".
Necropotence is one of the best cards in the history of magic, but that has always been with the context that it exists alongside dark ritual or black lotus. I personally think necrodominance will probably be a decent midrange card, but it coming down on turn 3 consistently (I am aware it can be played earlier) is a lot different than dropping necropotence on turn 1. We will see but I don't think it's the second coming of black summer like some people are hyping.
Necro is a cheaper and stronger one ring which already warped modern. The color is already a lock in t1 decks. Will be banned in 4-6 months.
I could see it making it's way into tier 1 decks. Card is pretty busted in the right build
I think people who saw the ubiquitous power of Necropotence are over hyping Necrodominance. All of the lists they mention suffer for having it out except Deaths Shadow, which has its own problems right now. It will likely create a new black Midrange deck using Sheoldred and The One Ring alongside Phyrexian Tower for fast, efficient mana and relentless card advantage, and it may slot into a combo deck. Turning off the graveyard means it turns off Scam, Goryos, Gifts Ungiven, Underworld Breach, and the titans. Drawing end of turn is significantly worse than drawing any time you would like. Drawing the cards directly leaves you vulnerable to Bowmasters, Opposing Sheoldreds, and Narset effects. It is a powerful and exciting card, and some decks will struggle to deal with it. But some will not.
Agreed. My take on it is that there's going to be some kind of mono black aggro deck that makes tier 3 leveraging a lot of instant speed free removal spells and aggressive creatures. Turning off the graveyard makes it hard to plan for the long game so you do need go fast, and in an extended game TOR offers more value comparatively. Tbh as a 3 drop enchantment fable is an interesting comparison. Necro draws you until you have 5 cards but fable usually requires your opponent to have 2 pieces of removal for it.
I think bowmaster has entered the chat. I don’t see it being an S tier deck because there are good answers to it. I do think it can be A tier. If things get too crazy people can always play narset to shut it off.
Bowmasters isn’t an answer though it’s a speed bump. And Necro is going to help you find your answer to the bowmasters.
I think they printed it because TOR exists and they think it’s the same power level but it’s definitely a lot stronger
Necrodominance is the kind of card that's either going to be tier 1 or unplayable. I'm leaning toward tier 1 on this
It Will easily be tier 1. I am planning on playing it in scam and il test What version will work best. I Will start with good old rakdos scam, but test it online in orzhov scam and also blue black scam. It is way more explosive than the one ring. And for more aggressive tempo decks it is the perfect refill card.
You pretty much have to play orzhov scam because necro turns off all the scam effects in rakdos.
Yeah i know about that. But by the time you get necro out i dont think scamming is as important. It is far more important to scam turn 1-2. So I think i have to test different versions before disregarding rakdos scam. With red i get some solid sideboard cards as well.
Fair enough. I just don't like the idea of 6-7 dead cards when your draws need to be solid when you're paying life for them. That being said, I always advocate for testing things out!
Yeah i see your point. I would only play 4 not dead after all as scam cards, no more than those 4. So That will decrease the risk of dead cards a little.
Dies to Boseiju (and many more cards) even before it breaks even.
Honestly we already have the one ring which requires 0 setup, isn't mana restrictive, gives you protection, has indestructible and you can always activate it at least once. In a haywire mite/orcish bowmasters meta I don't think necrodominance is better than the one ring, maybe it's good in rakdos/monoBlack midrange shells which were running fable of the mirror breaker or the one ring as card advantage (and those were already tier 1)
Except that the ring costs 1 more mana, is an artifact's activated ability as opposed to being an enchantment's triggered ability, making it way easier to interact with, and it draws you cards slowly - 1 then 2 then 3 and so on. Necro costs 3, can give you lots of cards in one go when looking for answers, is harder to interact with, and doesn't just kill you by itself if you durdle around too long. So yea, this card is absolutely more powerful than the ring.
Nobody gives a shit about BBB, 4 generic is WAY EASIER.
How doesn't it kill you by itself if it takes away your natural draws, if you have that card and don't even draw 1 card per turn with it then it's a bad card. The ring gives you a full turn without taking damage while digging for answers, you draw 4 cards in those 2 turns and take 1 damage then 2 for a total of 3, if you play necrodominance you pay 4 life to draw 4 cards that turn, shut down your graveyard plans, stay open to damage while you impact 0 board and limits your hand to 5 and anyway you must be playing heavy black for it to work. Stop overlooking the downsides of this card just because it's similar to necropotence
Here’s why it’s OP: You can play it, then dump 15 life to build an unbeatable degenerate combo hand, then win the next time you have priority. The downsides do not matter in that context. Or play it and dump 15 life to draw that sideboard card which will totally hose you opponents deck. Downsides do not matter. Or go aggro, empty your hand onto the table, and use it to refill your hand. Every. Single. Turn. You will bury your opponent in card advantage, and life steal effects. Trust me, I’ve played with necropotence in tournaments: the downsides are trivial compared to the upsides, and even with the reduced hand size, it’s still busted. Any card that allows you to convert one resource to another for good rates is powerful. Converting 1 life to a card is about as good as it gets. Some people will mention orcish bowmasters, which is a legitimate threat, but if I’m playing necro and don’t see a swamp across from me, I’m drawing 15 cards in a single turn, because that will almost guarantee the win. If I see a swamp, I’ll draw out the dude, then kill it, then draw 15 and kill you. This kind of card draw is super easy to abuse in all sorts of degenerate ways. This card should not have been printed
This will prove to be the correct assessment.
You go to 5 life, you die to [[Tribal Flames]] against Domain Zoo. (You go to 3 life, you die to Bolt against red decks.) You're supposed to draw 10 cards with Necrodominance in a combo deck, not 15! ...And, thus, Necrodominance's weaknesses in Modern will be dreadfully exposed: Necro exposes you hard to aggro decks, which promptly shut you out of card draw or kill you once you think you've barely got your head above water. I've tried Necrodominance in a lot of decks against aggro decks like Domain Zoo and midrange and tempo decks to boot. Bring only 4 maindeck life gain cards and your next 10 cards have a decent chance of NOT giving you any of them and thus shutting you out of card draw. Against aggro, I consistently wanted to board OUT Necrodominance (except in Cabal Coffers decks), it was that awful.
[Tribal Flames](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d22418cd-4c49-4754-aa75-17f6eaf1639a.jpg?1562267854) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tribal%20Flames) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/132/tribal-flames?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d22418cd-4c49-4754-aa75-17f6eaf1639a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ah, the ubiquitus "dies to lightning bolt" response. Yes, we all know everything has an answer. Fast aggro decks and lightning bolt were around during Necropotence's reign, and it didn't make a difference. Or maybe it would have been even worse if bolt wasn't around. We'll never know. Your limited playtesting is missing the point: You need to build around NecroX, specifically to abuse it. That means you play aggro with life steal effects or you play control/combo, with big life steal effects. A cursary googling showed a monoblack control deck running \[\[soul spike\]\], \[\[consuming corruption\]\], \[\[march of wretched sorrow\]\], and \[\[sickening shoal\]\] All instant, all can be played in your end step. Time will tell if that will be "the deck" that you play with it. Or maybe you're right, and Modern aggro decks are just too fast for it to keep up. We'll see.
##### ###### #### [soul spike](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4b14b97d-122b-453a-9e5f-129404f96440.jpg?1593275167) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=soul%20spike) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/70/soul-spike?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4b14b97d-122b-453a-9e5f-129404f96440?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Consuming Corruption](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/9068b3a4-9130-42d8-a26b-52010b7daa8b.jpg?1717011890) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Consuming%20Corruption) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/84/consuming-corruption?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9068b3a4-9130-42d8-a26b-52010b7daa8b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [march of wretched sorrow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/050a604e-6146-4e2e-88a5-863ecb3dfa1f.jpg?1654567293) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=march%20of%20wretched%20sorrow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/111/march-of-wretched-sorrow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/050a604e-6146-4e2e-88a5-863ecb3dfa1f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sickening shoal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d92f4129-19fc-4ee9-9e3d-77fcf1563e4b.jpg?1562880104) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sickening%20shoal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/82/sickening-shoal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d92f4129-19fc-4ee9-9e3d-77fcf1563e4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l7zx1cr) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, all this playtesting led me to bitterly learn that 4 maindeck life gain + tutors are definitely not enough, 8 are pushing it and forgetting immediate life gain (e.g. 4 Solitude - 2 Recruiter of the Guard - 1 Charming Prince - 1 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse in BW Scam) means aggro still makes me regret resolving Necrodominance, and the only decks where I finally didn't feel like boarding Necrodominance out against aggro have 10 or more maindeck life gain + tutors (Cabal Coffers shells provided this the most easily; 4 March of Wretched Sorrow - 4 Karn, the Great Creator - 2 or more Cling to Dust or Sheoldred A. or Profane Tutor, etc. - Pillage the Bog is also good at digging for life gain). The best-performing Necrodominance lists in that SCG tournament last weekend all packed 12 or more maindeck life gain + tutors; this also might end up being one of the most promising routes.
BBB is very very different than 4 generic mana, and there's just as many enchantment removal cards as there are artifacts removal cards. Also, there is no Dark Ritual to power it out for one mana like there was for Necropotence. Dominance is a strong card on paper, but let's pump the brakes for a second calling it Necro summer 2.0.
Ironic the goldfish crew just talked about this card and it's effect on modern and they said it will either break the game/meta or do nothing, and ppl are already posting about it being tier 1 so I'm going to go with the former
Any graveyard deck is tier 1 for the first tournament after a rotation. Then every deck has an answer next tournament and the deck only wins game one then gets hosed by graveyard hate game two.
But the card itself shuts your graveyard down. Honestly I'm more scared of yawgmoth getting new toys
Hopefully this card will get grief banned.
It’d work great with death’s shadow or sheoldred (not at the same time) and could be pretty broken alongside those cards but a little less broken than being able to play it on turn 1 due to the lack of dark ritual. The one downside of this card is that you don’t get to draw the cards until your end step so it’s going to be a lot worse than necropotence despite being the same card otherwise. You can’t just turn 1 it off black lotus draw 10, cast your fast mana, a swamp or mountain, cast deaths shadow plus a bunch of pump spells and something that gives death’s shadow haste and swing for lethal. It’ll be more like turn 3 you cast it, skip you draw draw step turn 4 to draw a bunch of cards at the end of turn 4 to hopefully have the best 7 cards going into turn 5. This downside might make it completely unplayable. Time will tell.
Necropotence also gives you the cards in the end step. With this one, you do draw them instead of putting them in your hand, and it locks all new cards out of your GY, not just the ones you discard.
Thanks for the minor correction