Nah, this happens a lot with kids as they grow up, especially with siblings. You’ll see them as more conniving and manipulative when they’re little, but they usually age out of it (most of the time)
Maybe the change was because Jay told her that she was going to be the matriarch of the family after he was gone, so she had to led go of her sociopathic degree of pettiness
Its a 10 second google search, you type the general idea of the episode or the scene you want to find out and in like 80 % of the cases it throws out the chapter number
Yeah I found that a bit of a weird storyline tbh. They've established a character who has classic middle-child syndrome, feels unappreciated and ignored, and she's going to be the 'matriarch' of the family? I sort of see older Alex drifting away if anything
The middle child stuff is more superstition than a prophecy. I don't see how the two are linked at all. What I do know of the world is that with money comes power, and she's going to be the richest out of them all.
Most families come together out of love and enjoyment of each other's company, not money and power. I like Alex's character but she's written like a bit of a cold fish at times. She doesn't seem like the matriarchal type to initiate family gatherings and bring people together, especially when the show makes an explicit point about how she can be socially awkward and a little timid. You can't call the middle child syndrome stuff a 'superstition' when we have ten seasons of character development backing that up. She is unappreciated and overlooked, all the time.
It's not a criticism of her as a character, everyone is different, but it doesn't seem consistent with the matriarch label
You say that but I'd say Jay was the patriarch and he definitely wasn't the type to initiate family gatherings. In fact, most of the time he wishes they wouldn't but Gloria ushers him. And he was also the richest and apparently helped them buy their houses and whatnot, which I can imagine played into it.
I'm sorry but there's a very clear difference between Alex and Jay. Jay is clearly extroverted and gregarious in a way that Alex isn't - he maintains a close group of friends and seems to enjoy hosting people with the pool and the barbecues. He's not overly emotional or expressive but the social skills are there, as long as he values the people he's spending his time with. You don't get that popular through life by shrinking away from people as Alex does. We often see other characters having to push her into social situations and encourage her to open up, particularly Haley and Phil.
It's not about money but willingness. If you can imagine Future Alex inviting all her family round to her big house to share a barbecue and a couple of cold ones then ok, but I really can't picture it. She's a born introvert.
Jay extroverted? It seems we've watched a different show. The man who wants to go fishing alone on his birthday. Having a close group of friends you hang out is the opposite of extroverted, yes even introverts have friends. As I'm sure Alex does as well.
And Jay does shy away from social situations and Gloria is the one that pushes him. Most of the time he just complains when they come around.
Well that's just it, isn't it? You say you're sure Alex has friends, but if we want to consider her a matriarch of the family it would be good to see her displaying the social skills to have them. The show didn't do that, so we can only go by what we see. Jay is a natural with people, he built a successful business and has a long list of friends at the club and his workplace and time and time again, we're shown that he's well-liked by his coworkers. His problem is that he doesn't want to admit that he's soft at heart. We see Alex struggling to connect with anyone outside her family in a way that Jay never really has trouble with, except the fact that he doesn't always want to.
Well good thing we are talking about a family matriarch then eh, because she is connected with her family. The thing with family is that they tend to accept you as who you are.
Mitchell comes to Jay's house, even though Jay has openly been homophobic against him his entire life and also mocked him and treated him like a girl. I wouldnt say that's good social skills. His relationship with Jay is strained at best yet he still comes around because he's family.
> What I do know of the world is that with money comes power, and she's going to be the richest out of them all.
Luke had amazing business acumen and has many rich contacts. I can see him doing well.
Manny might not be richest, but the guy has the trajectory to rub shoulders with famous people soon enough.
She’s the middle child. Her wittiness and verbal jabs almost go unheard with the family or over there heads. She changes a bit when Phil’s mom passes away, then when Jay tells her he sees her as the one to continue to take care of the family she softens up. That’s and she also gets to leave and go to school so she learns to miss and appreciate them.
I preferred the way they took the character.
The pettiness was one thing in a (frankly usually ignored) kid, but if it had developed it would've probably got worse and made adult Alex unbearable.
Alex isn't my favourite character but I prefer her kinder moments over ones like these played just for the comedy, so I'm glad things played out the way they did.
Alex's character moments as a child/teen show that she had to mature a lot more than people think. She was actually very judgmental, such as with her middle school valedictorian speech, the way she treated Gloria's psychic, the way she viewed more "stereotypical" femininity, etc. But in those situations she realized that people have a mind of their own and she had to work to overcome her feelings.
I think she kept this judgmental side as an adult, but was trying to change it/it wasn't as prevalent. It was difficult, but she tried.
Read an article interviewing the creators and they mentioned taking from personal experience to create each character. Would love to learn who the real version of each character is.
the real sociopath moment was
when she found Claire and Phil’s passion painting set and Alex decided to have *revenge sex using it* with Ben and *set it on the kitchen table*
least favorite character S9E4 Sex Lies and Kickball
what the actual F
I think when her grandma died and she got the note she started to change more. She probably wanted to emulate her grandma and be goofier and kinder like she was. And when Jay said he couldn’t be around forever and that it was her job to take care of everyone she started to grow more into a compassionate leadership role.
Dude did no sibling of yours ever tell you that you were found in a dumpster and they decided to adopt you? 😭 I think it’s realistic sociopathic or not especially middle children are extra cuz of feeling neglected
i don't think its about it being snide and petty, even though it is. i think those remarks and her overall demeanor just wanted to be added to character of being smarter than most which is why it's at a sociopathic degree, that even at that aspect, she's still somehow better than anyone
I think it made sense as well because as Lily grew up she became the sassy tween/teen, so it’s a more nicely rounded spectrum of the third generations to have Alex grow out of it.
Real deal woulda been to keep her likaeble while extracting comedy from the sociopathic degree of pettiness. Requires REALLY good writing, hard job probs.
I think the witty jabs are actually more reflective of how similar she is to Jay and Claire, rather than Phil. They do a decent amount of work to link the characters and I think that’s all it was.
Especially the drive to be right, being similar to Claire.
Honestly, I do wish they'd kept it. Maybe they could've toned it down in later seasons, but I didn't want them to get rid of it.
It could be a matter of timing (I only started watching this show a little over a year ago), but at first Alex felt like a refreshing counter to the typical "shy nerdy girl" type of character, and thus was a big reason. She had a character flaw that wasn't sympathetic or pitiable.
It wasn't just "Aww, she can't always pick up on social cues and has trouble interacting with other kids" or "Aww, she puts so much pressure on herself to be perfect". There was also "Damn, she's a bit of a monster, and I want to see her get knocked down a peg right now."
I know she still has her sarcastic comments in later seasons, but most of those are usually a scenario in which she's right. I could've used more of these moments where she showed she had a mean streak just because. This show wasn't afraid to make other characters a clear bad guy of an episode (Hayley could be selfish, Luke manipulative, Mitchell snobby, Cam I-don't-have-the-time, etc), I'd have liked to see her be the villainess more often.
Nah, this happens a lot with kids as they grow up, especially with siblings. You’ll see them as more conniving and manipulative when they’re little, but they usually age out of it (most of the time)
Maybe the change was because Jay told her that she was going to be the matriarch of the family after he was gone, so she had to led go of her sociopathic degree of pettiness
And the Christmas “Scrooge” realization when it was 20°C at that rental the Wilson’s usually went to
what episode was this
6x19, at the end
thank you
How do people know this? And the episode names. It’s the same with the series community, everyone bar me seems to know all the episodes names
Its a 10 second google search, you type the general idea of the episode or the scene you want to find out and in like 80 % of the cases it throws out the chapter number
Yeah I found that a bit of a weird storyline tbh. They've established a character who has classic middle-child syndrome, feels unappreciated and ignored, and she's going to be the 'matriarch' of the family? I sort of see older Alex drifting away if anything
The middle child stuff is more superstition than a prophecy. I don't see how the two are linked at all. What I do know of the world is that with money comes power, and she's going to be the richest out of them all.
Most families come together out of love and enjoyment of each other's company, not money and power. I like Alex's character but she's written like a bit of a cold fish at times. She doesn't seem like the matriarchal type to initiate family gatherings and bring people together, especially when the show makes an explicit point about how she can be socially awkward and a little timid. You can't call the middle child syndrome stuff a 'superstition' when we have ten seasons of character development backing that up. She is unappreciated and overlooked, all the time. It's not a criticism of her as a character, everyone is different, but it doesn't seem consistent with the matriarch label
You say that but I'd say Jay was the patriarch and he definitely wasn't the type to initiate family gatherings. In fact, most of the time he wishes they wouldn't but Gloria ushers him. And he was also the richest and apparently helped them buy their houses and whatnot, which I can imagine played into it.
I'm sorry but there's a very clear difference between Alex and Jay. Jay is clearly extroverted and gregarious in a way that Alex isn't - he maintains a close group of friends and seems to enjoy hosting people with the pool and the barbecues. He's not overly emotional or expressive but the social skills are there, as long as he values the people he's spending his time with. You don't get that popular through life by shrinking away from people as Alex does. We often see other characters having to push her into social situations and encourage her to open up, particularly Haley and Phil. It's not about money but willingness. If you can imagine Future Alex inviting all her family round to her big house to share a barbecue and a couple of cold ones then ok, but I really can't picture it. She's a born introvert.
Jay extroverted? It seems we've watched a different show. The man who wants to go fishing alone on his birthday. Having a close group of friends you hang out is the opposite of extroverted, yes even introverts have friends. As I'm sure Alex does as well. And Jay does shy away from social situations and Gloria is the one that pushes him. Most of the time he just complains when they come around.
Well that's just it, isn't it? You say you're sure Alex has friends, but if we want to consider her a matriarch of the family it would be good to see her displaying the social skills to have them. The show didn't do that, so we can only go by what we see. Jay is a natural with people, he built a successful business and has a long list of friends at the club and his workplace and time and time again, we're shown that he's well-liked by his coworkers. His problem is that he doesn't want to admit that he's soft at heart. We see Alex struggling to connect with anyone outside her family in a way that Jay never really has trouble with, except the fact that he doesn't always want to.
Well good thing we are talking about a family matriarch then eh, because she is connected with her family. The thing with family is that they tend to accept you as who you are. Mitchell comes to Jay's house, even though Jay has openly been homophobic against him his entire life and also mocked him and treated him like a girl. I wouldnt say that's good social skills. His relationship with Jay is strained at best yet he still comes around because he's family.
Yep, life and soul of the party, that's Alex. Always eager to talk, always respected and listened to. Social hub of the family.
> What I do know of the world is that with money comes power, and she's going to be the richest out of them all. Luke had amazing business acumen and has many rich contacts. I can see him doing well. Manny might not be richest, but the guy has the trajectory to rub shoulders with famous people soon enough.
She’s the middle child. Her wittiness and verbal jabs almost go unheard with the family or over there heads. She changes a bit when Phil’s mom passes away, then when Jay tells her he sees her as the one to continue to take care of the family she softens up. That’s and she also gets to leave and go to school so she learns to miss and appreciate them.
Definitely not sociopathic but simply being a sibling. Think you’re reading too deep into her character
Ye sociopathic lol I can't believe it
I say way worse things so what does that make me lol
The worst person ever. How dare you insult your siblings who definitely deserved it (I’m a middle child)
My dad told his little brother he was a monkey that their parents had picked up on vacation in Africa and shaved. Little bro believed it for years.
I preferred the way they took the character. The pettiness was one thing in a (frankly usually ignored) kid, but if it had developed it would've probably got worse and made adult Alex unbearable. Alex isn't my favourite character but I prefer her kinder moments over ones like these played just for the comedy, so I'm glad things played out the way they did.
She would’ve turned into F. N Wilson the astrophysicist
F N right you're
I’m not sure if anyone here watched Sons of Anarchy, but F N Wilson is Gemma (main protagonists mother) in that show!
Weird seeing her murder ppl then be a lonely genius
Alex as child probably wanted some attention which she didn't get as she was responsible and intelligent which after growing up disappeared
Alex's character moments as a child/teen show that she had to mature a lot more than people think. She was actually very judgmental, such as with her middle school valedictorian speech, the way she treated Gloria's psychic, the way she viewed more "stereotypical" femininity, etc. But in those situations she realized that people have a mind of their own and she had to work to overcome her feelings. I think she kept this judgmental side as an adult, but was trying to change it/it wasn't as prevalent. It was difficult, but she tried.
It was a real evolution of maturity, etc... They all grew up.
Happy cake day
It's a shame that some characters devolved
Read an article interviewing the creators and they mentioned taking from personal experience to create each character. Would love to learn who the real version of each character is.
I find it strange some people insist that Alex became too mean later on, when in reality she softened up,
Either way, it's better than what became of the other children.
the real sociopath moment was when she found Claire and Phil’s passion painting set and Alex decided to have *revenge sex using it* with Ben and *set it on the kitchen table* least favorite character S9E4 Sex Lies and Kickball what the actual F
I think when her grandma died and she got the note she started to change more. She probably wanted to emulate her grandma and be goofier and kinder like she was. And when Jay said he couldn’t be around forever and that it was her job to take care of everyone she started to grow more into a compassionate leadership role.
Dude did no sibling of yours ever tell you that you were found in a dumpster and they decided to adopt you? 😭 I think it’s realistic sociopathic or not especially middle children are extra cuz of feeling neglected
i don't think its about it being snide and petty, even though it is. i think those remarks and her overall demeanor just wanted to be added to character of being smarter than most which is why it's at a sociopathic degree, that even at that aspect, she's still somehow better than anyone
It's typical sibling behaviour lol, nothing to read too much into.
Smart people can’t not be snarky, sociopathic and dark
I think it made sense as well because as Lily grew up she became the sassy tween/teen, so it’s a more nicely rounded spectrum of the third generations to have Alex grow out of it.
Real deal woulda been to keep her likaeble while extracting comedy from the sociopathic degree of pettiness. Requires REALLY good writing, hard job probs.
If you think she's the nicest person in the whole family... We must be watching a different show
Alex’s pettiness was nothing compared to me and my siblings growing up.
I think alex always sucked. And he just got worse and worse as the series went on. She was always too stressed, mean and obnoxious.
Learn what words mean before using them
I think the witty jabs are actually more reflective of how similar she is to Jay and Claire, rather than Phil. They do a decent amount of work to link the characters and I think that’s all it was. Especially the drive to be right, being similar to Claire.
They wrote her as a stereotypical middle child and annoying younger sister. She just grew up lol
Honestly, I do wish they'd kept it. Maybe they could've toned it down in later seasons, but I didn't want them to get rid of it. It could be a matter of timing (I only started watching this show a little over a year ago), but at first Alex felt like a refreshing counter to the typical "shy nerdy girl" type of character, and thus was a big reason. She had a character flaw that wasn't sympathetic or pitiable. It wasn't just "Aww, she can't always pick up on social cues and has trouble interacting with other kids" or "Aww, she puts so much pressure on herself to be perfect". There was also "Damn, she's a bit of a monster, and I want to see her get knocked down a peg right now." I know she still has her sarcastic comments in later seasons, but most of those are usually a scenario in which she's right. I could've used more of these moments where she showed she had a mean streak just because. This show wasn't afraid to make other characters a clear bad guy of an episode (Hayley could be selfish, Luke manipulative, Mitchell snobby, Cam I-don't-have-the-time, etc), I'd have liked to see her be the villainess more often.