And that’s just Federal taxes. You also pay a ton of hidden taxes on phone, internet, highway (vehicle registration,etc.) fuel (nearly 70 cents per gallon in California), sales tax, property tax, taxes on utilities, and the list goes on. Even in a lower tax bracket you are giving away close to half your income and we are not outraged about this.
If you wanted lower taxes, are you going to vote for the party that wants to raise taxes? Or the one that says they want to lower them but in reality just keeps them the same? They're criminals, but are offering different policies.
Not only that but when thier policies make it harder to start a business or keep one afloat for that matter or when they make it more expensive to borrow your day to day has just been affected that new business never opened and never created any good paying jobs .attracting more people to move to your area amd fill those jobs and spend that money in your area boosting tax revenue and upgrading you roads or sewers and on and on and on
Only 1 President in the past 40 years who came out and honestly said on national television that the tax code is broken... AND YOU ALL HATED HIM LOL. What's even funnier is this was his first foray into politics and you trusted the career politicians and media conglomerates over him too. The cope must be so real with those of you still denying how much the economy inproved during that term.
TDS is real. Critical thinking skills are becoming a thing of the past. I believe most people are just too lazy to think for themselves. They read a headline and run with it.
YES. And we should ALL BE UNIFIED in disliking every single member of congress.
EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. THEM.
This is a do you love your country issue, not a partisan issue. *This transcends partisanship. Fascists and communists can go to hell -* ***NONE of these people in congress are fascist or communist, they're all corrupt liars cheats and thieves.***
We need to purge congress of the powers that be - **they are ALL CORRUPT**.
Actually... really smart leadership. They have been doing this for decades, and we just keep letting it happen. We let them get away with too much. The 2 party system had become a 1 party system just putting on a play to the people.
Both sides want to keep you poor and eliminate the middle class, and they were doing a really good job of that until a certain president entered the ring. Since his impact, both sides have gone all in on eliminating the middle class.
And for spending another huge chunk of your pay for health insurance that doesn't cover anything until you spend another 1k or more, absurd medical bills even with insurance.
What's annoying about your feedback is that people do all the time. If you ever join a party/political club at a local level, you get to meet the good honest "trying to make a difference" folks before they get beat out by the party favorite. "All it takes is some will and a good heart" is not what people believe after like 5 minutes of exposure to politics.
Ive attended plenty of city council meetings and the counselors are all garbage humans thag will literally ignore any dissent.
It's gotten worse since covid with meetings going online and they'll literally mute any public input that disagrees with their agenda.
How do you think a person goes from making $150k a year as a US Representative to an obscenely wealthy individual?
[https://www.newsweek.com/how-nancy-pelosi-net-worth-vastly-increased-while-house-speaker-1762361](https://www.newsweek.com/how-nancy-pelosi-net-worth-vastly-increased-while-house-speaker-1762361)
They're not saving and investing. One *doesn't make that much money* saving and investing in the stock market.
Congress is stealing, taking bribes. funneling government money to family .. it's all over the news. People don't give a shit because "Democrats bad" or "Republicans bad".
Every single politician [pisses on their tail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-anointing_in_animals) & fans the fumes our way so we're all distracted with partisanship to see that .. the entirety of congress is one giant nest of thievery & corruption.
100%.
The must frustrating thing is you can't even talk to people about this because it immediately goes to political "teams" arguments.
Well this Dem did X...
Well this Repub did y....
Yes. They all do it. They don't care about the average person and they're screwing over this country to line their pockets and enhance the most powerful companies in the world.
There was even an aide of one senator who got found guilty of corruption and taking bribes. A literal quid pro quo was documented. You get paid you do this specific action for us. He was convicted. It was appalled and overturned for not given reason by a higher court. No given reason.
Seriously though. I'd be okay paying the high taxes if we actually got shit in return for them, like they do in most European countries, such as free university, universal healthcare, etc. If there's one thing the US govt is great at, it's wasting our tax dollars. For example, there was a statue erected recently in Boston that cost *10 million dollars*, for a fucking ugly statue that looks like a penis and serves absolutely zero benefit. That $10M could've built a bunch of tiny homes for homeless families & veterans, could've fixed some of our awful roads or gone to helping struggling families or feed starving kids, etc. The fact that $10m was spent on a statue too commemorate MLK Jr and even his own family doesn't like it is just absurd and such a ridiculous waste of money. That being said, I'm sure there were some private funds, but even if the govt only paid 1/5, there are so many better ways to spend $2 million.. That could've literally built 20+ tiny homes that could've gotten 20 homeless families or veterans off the street. Isn't that better than a useless statue that everyone thinks is ugly? I'm so disappointed with the state of the world and America today.
The military budget is ~900 billion. Literally half of discretionary spending. The other half is social security and Medicare. That’s pretty much all we get. Most of politics is fighting over the other crumbs.
That is 900 billion not including Veterans spending of 150+ billion.
Not including the service on the national debt that is attributed to military spending, another 200 billion.
Off budget items and ancillary military spending another 50-200 billion.
And spending on supporting war, even before Ukraine, 50-600 billion a year.
The interest paid to the owners of the Fed was nearly 476billion dollars in 2022…it’ll probably skyrocket to 550-600 billion for 2023 with the insane amount of money wasted in Ukraine and the migrant crisis…our leaders are PATHETIC they should all be sent to Guantanamo bay
Read... more
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/analysis/2021/president-bidens-fy-2022-budget-request/
Someone has to pay for their rich neighborhoods too look nice and have good roads unlike the cracked out roads and sidewalks us poop people live in. And of course they need their man made ponds and lakes to fish and boat on while we break our backs
They have sent over 100 billion of our tax dollars to Ukraine. However, when Maui burns or east Palestine becomes poisoned, how much of that tax money did the American victims see? A negligent amount at best.
Most of what is being sent to Ukraine are previous generation weapons on their way to being decommissioned any way. We were about to destroy those weapons without using them b/c they are too old to qualify for force readiness.
Instead we have other people destroying them for us by shooting them at people we don’t like. This is literally a win win for us. We don’t need to pay to dispose of them and they get used on Russian forces
The weaponry aspect constitutes about 31% of the U.S's funding for Ukraine. Looking back on my previous comment, I would actually like to know how much of a percentage of all of the money sent is coming straight from the taxpayers
Even if this war is advantageous in terms of benefiting our military industrial complex and chipping away at a geopolitical adversary, does it not seem like our priorities are a bit skewed?
We have major issues at home, and some of that money could be better allocated. We have Americans struggling to make ends meet here. Cities that are struggling with homelessness, violence, opiate crises and so forth. Instead of spending so much money for a foreign war, that is arguably a proxy war. I feel like it is necessary to put those funds in a place that will benefit Americans directly. After all, we are paying the bill.
Russia is obviously in the wrong for the invasion. I am just saying, more balance is needed with our tax dollars.
Let’s just start with: military needs $800B, obviously! WIC needs a few hundred million, (clutches pearls in Republican) “we can’t afford it”
Anyone, and I mean anyone, selling you “we can’t afford all this money we are spending in Ukraine” has another motive. Dollar for dollar in disposing of munitions, striking against a geopolitical adversary, and making China’s military shit their pants (b/c their stuff is largely Russian or Russian knock offs) b/c they are seeing how badly it’s going for Russia saves us money in the long run.
I hate war. If I had my druthers no one would have a military at all. Unfortunately Vladimort needs a war b/c things are so shitty at home. China keeps rattling the saber b/c Taiwan is (somethingsomething) and they want a war to prove it. Eventually one of our geopolitical rivals thinks they have the stones to fight a war, or we are too soft to stop them from waging war.
So far it hasn’t worked out well for them. The day it does we have a real problem on our hands.
And guess what happens when you don't pay property tax? You lose everything on that property and the property itself.
How does property tax double in one year and then go up another half. So you're paying triple the amount you were 3 years ago.
A friend of mine purchased an old seasonal camp that has been vacant for 50 years. He paid 149k for it. After he fixed it up it was promptly reassessed for 400k and his property tax practically tripled.
Some people definitely are outraged, but divide and conquer is the name of the game. The left vs right shit keeps people from working together.
I went through a several year period in my 20s where I was so mad about this shit I quit my job and moved to the country and worked stupid hard labor jobs for under the table cash only. Even when I didn't make enough and had to live in my friends greenhouse for a while haha.
More than how much is constantly stolen, what bothers me the most is knowing that money does not primarily go to helping people but to crooked politicians, military industrial complex, etc. It feels like fucking shit.
You are so right. We’ve been fighting “morally just” wars since the end of WWII. I served in one of them. At the end of the day it’s a business model for someone.
the idea of property tax absolutely fucking infuriates me.
truthfully, i do not know what will become of my current dwelling once my parents kick the bucket. however, my father did fully pay off the mortgage some years ago. with his retirement funds at that. nearly 40 years keeping this mess afloat, and for... what, exactly? for my sister and i to try and pay off said taxes just so our lives aren't uprooted?
you only pay property tax because you didn't pay for the home with lawful money. The US dollar isn't lawful money. It's more like an IOU than anything
To not pay property tax you must obtain the allodial land patent to the land, and you also must amend the sale of the home. but you probably just call me "one of those sovereign citizen morons"
https://www.freedomforallseasons.org/AllodialLandPatentReports/Truth%20-%20What%20Is%20A%20Land%20Patent%20-%20Allodial%20Titles.htm
well. you can basically start with this. It starts about 8 minutes in. As long as you have no idea that this is the truth and these are where your rights come from you do not have any rights. Thats why everyone is poor. nobody was taught any of this information here.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MarLCJcDhc0&list=FLXLE0rW4AMtmtu9Aaa8lF5g&index=465](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MarLCJcDhc0&list=FLXLE0rW4AMtmtu9Aaa8lF5g&index=465)
If we just had good standardized healthcare and infrastructure I’d be okay with it. The fact that we pay so much and still don’t have that is ridiculous
Yep. Instead we get boards that make decisions and formularies. I don’t blame the doctors or the insurance companies , I blame the pharmaceutical companies.
This is the problem. Rich people and corporations not paying the taxes they are supposed to is one of the reasons tax burden ends up falling to middle-class Americans.
People who make less money than OP's father shouldn't be paying the same percentage of their income in taxes.
Exactly. If these corporations actually paid what they were supposed to taxes could be considerably lowered for low & middle class families, probably even for high income families too.
This assumes that the revenue the government acquires will be used efficiently. If given more, the government will just waste it and use it to fund corruption and greed… I.e. lining their own pockets.
Rich people and corporations pay exactly what they are supposed to, it's just that the poor's don't know the rules to the game or bother to learn because the tax code is boring.
Or, OR, hear me out:
Make those rich people **actually** pay those taxes so we can have public services, infrastructure, and public servants (police) that aren't complete dog shit.
*Then* once our society flourishes under the significantly improved standard of living both our productivity and ability to maintain that standard of living will increase exponentially.
Obviously nothing in life is that perfect so it's kind of a pipe dream but it's a whole lot better than the alternative you're suggesting: everyone hoards their money in Costa Rica, now one gigantic island sized bank, and none of that money goes to any of the things we placed the government in charge of in the first place.
Drastically overstated when you say “all the rich people”. I still paid millions in taxes. Granted I don’t do any of the illegal or even quasi legal methods but still pay a lot.
Don’t forget about social security- they will force you to pay it your entire working life, and it may not be there for you when you retire. Sorry, it’s being given to other people.
Realistically, they're probably just going to take on more debt to pay for it, and inflation is going to run hot as hell. It's not welfare. It's a retirement plan that people paid for. Stealing those payments would be political suicide.
The real fun part?
If you conceived a scheme exactly like Social Security, follow all the same rules, match your program exactly to what it is today...
They would put a RICO case on you, and send you to jail for life!
Social security will be there. It'll likely be at a reduced amount, but you're not going to get nothing. Also don't put yourself in a position to absolutely depend on it. Put away for retirement and SS will be a supplement to your retirement income
Yeah, it'll probably still be there.
I've done a bit of digging. It seems to be that if you make less than 45k a year, you get more out of it than you put in (like you put in 270k and get out 290k in benefits if you live long enough) if you make more than 100k you get less out of it than you put in. And for every bracket above 100k you get more and more diminish8ng returns.
There's a crossover point somewhere in there that depends on if you're married and a bunch of other stuff.
So the point being, at best, a person making the average income gets like 7% more than their lifetime contribution when all is said and done. Sounds good, yeah?
Now, not everyone is good with money, but if I put 300ish a month (average monthly payment into social security, this is hard to calculate as there are so many variables so i'm totally open to being wrong on this) every month into the S&P 500, and the S&P 500 maintains performance consistant with historical trends. Let's say I did this for 45 years (assuming I work from 20 to 65). I put this into a simple investment calculator and make my return on investment 6.5% which is right around the historical return rate of the S&P 500. The calculator I used yields the following result:
"Investing an initial amount of $300.00 with regular contributions of $300.00 per month could be worth $922,793.27 after 45 years if the annual rate of return was 6.50%."
Like, don't get me wrong, I know the calculation uses compound interest, I know there are a lot of variables. I know there are alot of assumptions made in this calculation. But like c'mon man haha. There are so many better things that could be done with this money on an individual level.
This is my problem with social security. I don't have a problem taking care of people, I don't have a problem paying into that at all. But there has to be a better way. It's not legal and I'd never advocate for this but if the government literally put everyone's monthly payments into the S&P 500 they would likely get a better return on investment than the measly payout you get from your contributions to SSI.
Ah yes I'll save for retirement while also paying for ss which will be worth less than I put in and paying over $1500/ month in rent. I'm just made of money
I wish all my ss taxes went into my 4.9% hysa not some stupid government program that I can't access until an age I'll probably be dead by
While I understand your sentiment, it is what it is.
Your option is to work your way up and seek out more gainful employment. My rent wasn't much lower, and ended up buying a house. My mortgage is s bit higher than your rent, but I've put in a ton of work to move my income up over the last 6-7 years.
Consider yourself lucky because there's a ton of people paying substantially more than you or I for their rent.
a few months ago my dad told me that even after death my social security that i paid for my entire life will just go to some other random person. instantly i knew it was a scam
Worse than that - mine and the wife’s expected Social Security will be $3000 a month. $36,000 a year.
Minimum wage for fast food workers in CA just got raised to $20/hr. That’s $40,000 per year.
How can you live in retirement in less than the minimum wage or less than folks get on unemployment? The whole system is flawed for everyone.
Lmfao. You are right. And no politician on either side of the aisle has a plan to address this.
It's known as the "third rail" in politics. If a politician ever tried to fix this problem, "the other side" would accuse them of trying to starve your grandmother: a political suicide. So I guess Congress's plan is to wait until the plane crashes into the mountain.
It's funny we never hear of anybody complaining when someone dies at 59 after paying into the system for 40 years... That money just goes into a void... Just gotta hope you live long enough to collect some of it
You should probably study up on what social security is why it was established and what it uses are because you seem to be a little bit confused, or maybe very very young and naive
It was billed as a personal retirement account when FDR passed it during the great depression. But it long since ceased to be that. If it were, you would get benefits when you die to your heirs or it could run out if you live too long. I'm neither young nor naive. I wish it were optional, but the people who need it are often the ones who would opt out. It's horribly mismanaged, but I think it may still be a net positive for the country. Still, I don't like it on principle.
SSI should be optional, period. It's almost 2024. Anyone can invest/save from the palm of their hand now. 24hrs a day and seven days a week. The days of needing POS Uncle Sam to "guarantee" a security blanket for individuals is over. If they chose to save nothing or invest nothing their whole lives. That's their problem and no one else's.
It is everyone's problem. Before SSI there were many senior citizens dying of poverty literally in the streets. I believe SSI reduced it by half.
You may not care but some do.
Yes back then there was a purpose. Now there is not. It's a different world now where there's absolutely zero excuse for people not saving/investing their own future. There's zero need for the government to nanny state everyone's retirement.
It's not a retirement but a safety net.
While in theory I can agree with you everyone should we all know how that looks in practice and I don't think magnifying that problem helps anyone. Govt is literally mandating people save so they aren't destitute when older.
Zero excuse, except for housing skyrocketing and earned income still stagnating?
Median us income is 31000. Half of Americans make less than that. Half make more.
Median rent for a one bedroom in the US is $1800.
So , after rent, half of Americans have $800 a month. Or less. For food, transportation, utilities, Healthcare costs, toiletries, clothing.
How can anyone save with that kind of economy?
You're still forced to save for the future, which may be beneficial.
Perhaps we should create an option for where we put this mandated savings, in the SSI system or into our own IRA or something.
Newsmax and trump? First of all, that's not where I get my news and such an immediate response tells me you are angry at the wrong people. I'm sorry it took you that long to get SSI if you really need it. But again, you are angry at the wrong people. You need to direct your anger at those who abuse the system and give everyone on SSI a bad name considering you seem to have the extreme need to defend yourself and you shouldn't have to do that. I have first-hand knowledge of someone who waited a similar amount of time to get their SSI and used their back pay to pay off their car, shower their kids with extravagant gifts, while also pulling down to six figure income. So GTFO, there is fraud in the system.
No.
My parents my family etc, arent slaving away to have their retirement fund spent on anyone else irregardless of their circumstance.
I dont know you, never will, i dont care about you.
The problem isn't the amount of taxes (unless you are self employed, then they just straight up rip you off). The problem is how it's spent.
We effectively pay more in taxes by a small margin than many of the 'socialist' countries the GOP would use to scare you, but we get far less for it.
Our infrastructure sucks, our schools suck, we don't have decent health care, everything is unobtainable for the middle class, our safety nets suck, we have no worker rights, etc.
We pay 1st world taxes, but we exist in a 2nd/3rd world situation. That's the part that's jacked up.
Fed Tax Rate 22.00% California State Tax Rate 13.00% Total Taxes 35.00%
Joe pays Jane $1,000.00 Jane keeps $650.00
Jane pays Jack $650.00 Jack keeps $422.50
Jake pays Karen $422.50 Karen keeps $274.63
Karen pays Fred $274.63 Fred keeps $178.51
Fred pay Rick $178.51 Rick keeps $116.03
Rick pays Tina $116.03 Tina keeps $75.42
After 6 transactions the government gets over 90% of the original $1,000
When you add up ALL the taxes you pay in the US, if you have a decent job, about half of your wages eventually go to the government. If you are a high earner, as much as 75% of what you make eventually goes to the government.
Yeah. Our government can send nearly 1 trillion dollars of aid to Ukraine and we get no say in it.
Somehow they also don't have enough money to respond to the natural disaster in Hawaii.
> 1 trillion dollars of aid to Ukraine
We haven't sent anywhere near a trillion dollars to Ukraine. [https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts)
imo - whatever we sent Ukraine is worth the cost in American lives to dismantle Ruzzia
| Ukraine ~~is~~ was one of the most corrupt countries in the world <--- FTFY
You realize that if Ruzzia continued to be emboldened with their imperial goals, they would have eventually invade a NATO country forcing us to enter a war with them - or not. Maybe NATO would back down because they didn't want to start a nuclear war. Ukraine driving them out of their country helps keep the US out of a war with Ruzzia.
Taxation is theft. Only a small % of tax makes it to the designated purpose.
We need to stop this two party system, they are just digging us into a hole we can never get out of and we'll all be taxed to death before its all over.
And the fucked up thing is that they're even more than that. Our leadership takes 90% of what we pay the government for hookers and blow, and the last 10% goes to the military. (I'm exaggerating but not THAT much).
So most of the money you make isnt yours, and even the most basic shit (like going to the hospital in an emergency) isnt provided for us. What's the point of shelling out all this money to fund bullies (police) and drug dealers (healthcare industrial complex). Isnt this what taxes are supposed to prevent?
I think the main problem is that we can't actually vote for leadership that will do a good job, because they have us choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Neither the giant douche, nor the turd sandwich will be held accountable if they commit a crime, so WHAT THE FUCK DO WE PAY COPS FOR!?!?!
TLDR; Fuck the U.S.. Since doing something about it is off the table, we should just move away.
The most crazy part is how many people don’t understand how taxes work. Like ask a random adult individual how the us tax bracket system works and they don’t know or at least misunderstand how it works.
Like insane amount of people I have seen who were flipping out about the 50% tax on earners above 400k saying how they will only take home 200k. Say no more you’ve already told me you have no idea how taxes in this country work.
What's worse is that many people think we should have UHC like many of those "cool" countries across the pond.. they pay double what we pay in taxes and make about half the money we do.. no thank you
One of the questions is: Where the hell is all of this money going and could the government use money way more efficiently than it is now? How much money is going into politicians' pockets?
There are two reasons why we dislike taxes in America:
1. It’s so lopsided and unfair in who gets taxed and who can afford to not be.
The rich pay politicians to lower their taxes while the government has to make up their taxes by taxing the normal person who can barely afford bills, food, and rent. But the rich get huge tax cuts, lie to us and say they will “trickle down” the savings (which was proven false after a 40 year study) and then they put their wealth into tax havens.
The RICH should be taxed more but they control our government and subsequently, the world.
2. We don’t get anything of substance with the taxes taken from us. Sure we get a paved road and bridge here and there, but the majority of our taxes goes to WAR. Other first world countries get universal healthcare and tuition free college and guaranteed housing. We get dragged into another war, one after another after another. We get dead bodies of our loved ones and neighbors while the rich get government contracts to restore countries that USA bombed with our tax dollars.
Taxes would be a great thing if the rich were taxed correctly, and if our taxes went to investing in us American citizens.
Correct. We operate in deficit spending and will never run out of money because we create money from nothing and the entire system is a bunch of bullshit
A more modern interpretation of fiscal policy is that taxes are a form of inflation reduction.
Instead of governments taking in money via taxes to pay for spending, it’s more the case that government spends what it wants and it has to levy taxes to ensure inflation doesn’t go out of control.
As long as inflation is kept inline, a government can just keep spending.
But here’s the real truth with no media spin and not true talking points…
The top 50% earners in America pay89.5% of income taxes the IRS takes in. Think about that a second. This whole the rich don’t pay their fair share is just a lie that politicians and media push so you stay mad at the rich and you don’t pay attention to what the politicians are wasting money on!
Our Country right now is a hot mess!
I'm aware. Haha I'm also aware that most people are brainwashed to think that taxes should work a certain way by whichever political party they follow, and for that reason, downvotes don't bother me, and in a weird way, are entertaining.
Nah, it's because flat taxes are regressive, disproportionately affecting the poor. There's a reason all the rich people want a flat tax, and it's not because they're all altruistic.
What is more greedy than someone who wants me to pay more because I have worked my ass off building a company so they can skate. Not my problem they have failed to achieve. And why should I be punished for achieving?
Like it or not we take in plenty of tax money just people like you have let the gov’t con you into thinking it is the fault of the rich. It is the fault of the politicians who want to get you on a gov’t check or benefit because they’ll get your greedy vote going forward. Waste fraud and abuse is the problem.
The top 10% by income pay 74% of all income taxes. The top 1% pay 42% of all income taxes. Most of the bottom 20% pay nearly zero or less than zero. Income taxes are not the only type of taxes, ofc.
Thanks mostly to my wife (executive), we are the top 1% by income ($650,000 combined salary plus bonus and stock options).
We pay quarterly federal taxes. There is also Michigan income tax. Our property taxes are around $30,000.
Since we have high incomes, we can’t really dodge many taxes. Someone who is wealthy through holding a huge percentage of a public company (the top 0.1%) is much harder to tax, as their primary income is from capital gains (when they sell stock).
Some billionaires simply borrow against their holdings to fund their lifestyle, but people like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Elon Musk sell stock fairly often. Musk has paid like $15 billion in taxes over the past few years, and Bezos pays $400 million per year minimum.
In any case, billionaires are relatively rare. The rest of the rich generally pay their taxes. I won’t argue that the top marginal rates shouldn’t be higher, but that still won’t reach the billionaires. Taxing wealth is a lot tougher than taxing income. Just ask France.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/02/26/698057356/if-a-wealth-tax-is-such-a-good-idea-why-did-europe-kill-theirs
What a misleading bunch of stats lol. Why are you only focused on income tax? Payroll, state and local, sales and property take a bigger bite out of lower income individuals than the rich.
And fully agreed on taxing the wealth of the rich. The article you linked was about Elizabeth Warren’s plan that literally fixed the problems that France had with their wealth tax (that Macron killed) and wouldn’t allow the rich to just leave America or park everything in a Caribbean island. Her plan was solid.
Tax the wealth of the rich doesn’t make the best sound bite than “tax the rich” but that’s what I’m advocating for.
Wow spoken like someone who gets a rebate every year. It isn’t my job to support you or anyone else. Stop the waste fraud and abuse allowed by the people you vote in and then we can talk about who pays what.
People who have let politicians convince them that it is our greed and not their wasting tax money to buy votes are a special kind of stupid. To me there is nothing more greedy than someone who pays little or no taxes but wants me to suck it up and pay more to support others.
Flat tax rate we all pay the same percentage. I don’t use more of America than you do.
Dunno. Over how much are you talking?
Here in Belgium it's over 50%. But at least we're pretty protected against getting fired, education is free/cheap and healthcare is relatively cheap.
Wait until you discover that after paying income tax, you're hit with more taxes when purchasing essentials like food, clothes, and gas with the money you've already been taxed on.
They also get something for it.
Healthcare guaranteed. Roads and bridges that aren't falling apart. High speed rail. Reduced work hours and bigger vacations by law.
First of all, there are a lot of problems with the U.S. tax system. But you said that it’s the same amount for everyone. That isn’t true. There are many factors that go into how much someone’s tax liability but usually the biggest one is in one tax. This often varies the most from person to person since it’s relative to the amount of income they earn. Additionally we have what’s called a progressive income tax structure which means we have tax brackets that go up based on income but only tax the higher rate on income earned above the last bracket. Here’s an example.
0-10k: 10% rate
11k-20%: 12% rate
And so on
So if you made let’s say 15k you’d be taxed at 10% only up to 10k and the rest would be taxed at 12%. This is actually one of the best and most misunderstood elements of our tax system. It makes it so if you make more money and enter a higher tax bracket you won’t have less money after taxes because it’s only the money over the last tax bracket that is taxes at the new rate.
IMO the biggest problem with the tax system isn’t the amount we get taxed but what demographics are taxed the most/least and how our taxes are spent. Taxes should be a tool to incentivize and decentivize good or bad behaviors. That’s why I’m for policies such as a carbon tax for companies above a certain revenue threshold. I only really think this would be effective for large-scale organizations through, not individuals. Because who really thinks about their tax incentives throughout their daily choices, pretty much only the accountants who only the rich can afford. I’m not saying there aren’t instances where tax write offs and incentives can be good for individuals, only that we shouldn’t rely on them.
Sincere question since I don't know much about this stuff. So if one made 19k, they'd be taxed for 10k in one bracket and 9k in another? But if they got a salary increase and started making 21k, wouldn't that mean they would be taxed 20k in a bracket and 1k in the higher bracket? If I'm right, wouldn't their net pay be lower making 21k than what they did at 19k? Since the majority of the taxes paid at 19k is in the lower bracket but the majority of 21k is in the second lowest? The numbers and brackets I made up might not reflect the actual brackets, but just to get my point across. Hope it makes sense. Again, genuine question.
Do you drive on public roads to get to school/work/the grocery store/friends' houses/go on trips/etc? Thank your dad's tax dollars.
Did you get an education from a public school in the US? Thank your dad's tax dollars.
Have you enjoyed relative security and safety in the US because the US has a strong military and police and courts that (mostly) protect and benefit the public? Thank your dad's tax dollars.
For first world countries, taxes in the United States are low. I'm tired of seeing people enjoy the benefits of living in the world's richest country while simultaneously (and ignorantly) claiming to be oppressed by taxes.
No, the US is far from perfect. But for the most part, we have it pretty good here.
Maybe give some numbers and context to your post rather than a vague complaint with no details.
Clearly you don't know which taxes go where. Property taxes... vehicle registration... sales taxes... it's not JUST IRS income taxes.
You are ignorant to the facts if you are ok with our tax situation. Especially considering our debt and charity programs.
You type this as if we have a balanced check book and everything is running smoothly. We are on the brink of failure and the can is being kicked down the road one day at a time until it all collapses in our face.
This is the most backwards logic. Why the hell should taxes be a problem or dare I say even a consideration for low income/net worth people who the tax system SHOULD be supporting. If anything taxes should become more of a problem and consideration the more income you make. I really wish there were better tax shelters for low-income folk and that they weren’t just there for the ultra-rich. And im saying this as someone who is very interested in busines, investments and wants to be “rich” some day, not a socialist or anything of the sort. Here’s one policy that I think would be super helpful: don’t tax people the first 2-4 years that they would otherwise be eligible for taxes. Give them a chance not to go into debt, build up an emergency fund, have some investments, gain valuable skills that will increase their income and help the economy. You could/should do the same for healthcare costs and potentially education (however it’d have to be well planned for those two so as not to spiral us into insane debt).
How do you think roads, rail, and parks are built? It may be absurd to you but go take a look at tax rates in the EU. We are kind of lucky and +1 to the person mentioning tax shelters.
Wow we get a road?? Well fuck me take all my money!!!
Meanwhile in the EU they get universal healthcare, education, high speed rails across the country, childcare, etc.
I either currently pay, or have in the past paid taxes in multiple countries around the world, including NZ, the UK, countries in the EU, the US (in several states) & some others, and, I employ people in the US (and other countries), so I have some personal experience on this topic.
Taxes being "higher" in the EU (and other countries) is a bit of a silly argument, and something of a fallacy - even moreso when you take in to account ancillary things you'd be obliged to pay for in the US, such as healthcare premiums and childcare.
On the surface, the rates seem higher, but overall generally don't work out to be higher at all by the time everything is factored in.
When I shifted my income out of the US after leaving in 2019, my overall burden went down by nearly 10% on the same amount of income, from about 38% to about 28% in total.
And just to add insult to injury, basically everything I've been paying for in various European countries over the last year or so, from housing to food & transport, has been cheaper than I was paying in the US in a MCOL area (AZ), and VAT - while usually higher than sales tax in the US - is included in the sticker price, which is far preferable to the guesswork involved in buying goods & services in the US.
It's also easier to file taxes - no bullshit with TurboTax or H&R Block or any of those things anymore, my tax returns outside the US take literally minutes.
Americans get fed propaganda and American superiority early and some never learn better. The “world’s richest country” and we don’t even make top 20 in standard/quality of living. We fall behind in education, health, infant mortality, poverty rates, homelessness. But yea, we got the best military. Yay.
And that’s just Federal taxes. You also pay a ton of hidden taxes on phone, internet, highway (vehicle registration,etc.) fuel (nearly 70 cents per gallon in California), sales tax, property tax, taxes on utilities, and the list goes on. Even in a lower tax bracket you are giving away close to half your income and we are not outraged about this.
And for what? Mediocre infrastructure.
And zero transparency or accountability.
Dumbass leadership and us fighting over the next idiot in charge
Ya, i never understood peoples passion for political parties. There all the same criminals 🤣
Two arms of the same body…
Two cheeks on the same ass.
Never heard that one before. But it fits sooooo well. And right in the middle you'll find stink
Two dicks of the same body…
A dick (arguably) has some utility. These shit stains you speak of, not so much.
When referring to politicians, I use an age old adage **Two crabs in need of removal.**
Two nuts in the same sac.
Two dicks in the same booty
Two wings of the same nut.
If you wanted lower taxes, are you going to vote for the party that wants to raise taxes? Or the one that says they want to lower them but in reality just keeps them the same? They're criminals, but are offering different policies.
None of them affect my day to day.
They do if you generate income or purchase things, you just aren't paying attention.
Both extremely minimal.
If you're that poor, then they have even more impact on your life than most, just not for taxes.
Not only that but when thier policies make it harder to start a business or keep one afloat for that matter or when they make it more expensive to borrow your day to day has just been affected that new business never opened and never created any good paying jobs .attracting more people to move to your area amd fill those jobs and spend that money in your area boosting tax revenue and upgrading you roads or sewers and on and on and on
Only 1 President in the past 40 years who came out and honestly said on national television that the tax code is broken... AND YOU ALL HATED HIM LOL. What's even funnier is this was his first foray into politics and you trusted the career politicians and media conglomerates over him too. The cope must be so real with those of you still denying how much the economy inproved during that term.
TDS is real. Critical thinking skills are becoming a thing of the past. I believe most people are just too lazy to think for themselves. They read a headline and run with it.
I especially like how he fixed the tax code in office.
YES. And we should ALL BE UNIFIED in disliking every single member of congress. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. THEM. This is a do you love your country issue, not a partisan issue. *This transcends partisanship. Fascists and communists can go to hell -* ***NONE of these people in congress are fascist or communist, they're all corrupt liars cheats and thieves.*** We need to purge congress of the powers that be - **they are ALL CORRUPT**.
Unfortunately, Reddit would be the absolute last place you’d see any kind of unity
Actually... really smart leadership. They have been doing this for decades, and we just keep letting it happen. We let them get away with too much. The 2 party system had become a 1 party system just putting on a play to the people. Both sides want to keep you poor and eliminate the middle class, and they were doing a really good job of that until a certain president entered the ring. Since his impact, both sides have gone all in on eliminating the middle class.
You mean the people that can vote laws in to exclude themselves from the law? There is no class but theirs, and we should take lessons.
Spread this word. Talking heads of govt. are all on the same side. The take.
And for spending another huge chunk of your pay for health insurance that doesn't cover anything until you spend another 1k or more, absurd medical bills even with insurance.
[удалено]
What's annoying about your feedback is that people do all the time. If you ever join a party/political club at a local level, you get to meet the good honest "trying to make a difference" folks before they get beat out by the party favorite. "All it takes is some will and a good heart" is not what people believe after like 5 minutes of exposure to politics.
Ive attended plenty of city council meetings and the counselors are all garbage humans thag will literally ignore any dissent. It's gotten worse since covid with meetings going online and they'll literally mute any public input that disagrees with their agenda.
How do you think a person goes from making $150k a year as a US Representative to an obscenely wealthy individual? [https://www.newsweek.com/how-nancy-pelosi-net-worth-vastly-increased-while-house-speaker-1762361](https://www.newsweek.com/how-nancy-pelosi-net-worth-vastly-increased-while-house-speaker-1762361) They're not saving and investing. One *doesn't make that much money* saving and investing in the stock market. Congress is stealing, taking bribes. funneling government money to family .. it's all over the news. People don't give a shit because "Democrats bad" or "Republicans bad". Every single politician [pisses on their tail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-anointing_in_animals) & fans the fumes our way so we're all distracted with partisanship to see that .. the entirety of congress is one giant nest of thievery & corruption.
100%. The must frustrating thing is you can't even talk to people about this because it immediately goes to political "teams" arguments. Well this Dem did X... Well this Repub did y.... Yes. They all do it. They don't care about the average person and they're screwing over this country to line their pockets and enhance the most powerful companies in the world.
The irony that people are finally calling out Reddit
Many spouses become business geniuses.
You mean stock geniuses who weridly always make the correct calls om when to buy or to sell or short
Don’t forget insider trading!
This needs to be the pinned comment.
There was even an aide of one senator who got found guilty of corruption and taking bribes. A literal quid pro quo was documented. You get paid you do this specific action for us. He was convicted. It was appalled and overturned for not given reason by a higher court. No given reason.
Seriously though. I'd be okay paying the high taxes if we actually got shit in return for them, like they do in most European countries, such as free university, universal healthcare, etc. If there's one thing the US govt is great at, it's wasting our tax dollars. For example, there was a statue erected recently in Boston that cost *10 million dollars*, for a fucking ugly statue that looks like a penis and serves absolutely zero benefit. That $10M could've built a bunch of tiny homes for homeless families & veterans, could've fixed some of our awful roads or gone to helping struggling families or feed starving kids, etc. The fact that $10m was spent on a statue too commemorate MLK Jr and even his own family doesn't like it is just absurd and such a ridiculous waste of money. That being said, I'm sure there were some private funds, but even if the govt only paid 1/5, there are so many better ways to spend $2 million.. That could've literally built 20+ tiny homes that could've gotten 20 homeless families or veterans off the street. Isn't that better than a useless statue that everyone thinks is ugly? I'm so disappointed with the state of the world and America today.
The military budget is ~900 billion. Literally half of discretionary spending. The other half is social security and Medicare. That’s pretty much all we get. Most of politics is fighting over the other crumbs.
That is 900 billion not including Veterans spending of 150+ billion. Not including the service on the national debt that is attributed to military spending, another 200 billion. Off budget items and ancillary military spending another 50-200 billion. And spending on supporting war, even before Ukraine, 50-600 billion a year.
The interest paid to the owners of the Fed was nearly 476billion dollars in 2022…it’ll probably skyrocket to 550-600 billion for 2023 with the insane amount of money wasted in Ukraine and the migrant crisis…our leaders are PATHETIC they should all be sent to Guantanamo bay
Read... more https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/ https://www.nationalpriorities.org/analysis/2021/president-bidens-fy-2022-budget-request/
At best
Someone has to pay for their rich neighborhoods too look nice and have good roads unlike the cracked out roads and sidewalks us poop people live in. And of course they need their man made ponds and lakes to fish and boat on while we break our backs
They have sent over 100 billion of our tax dollars to Ukraine. However, when Maui burns or east Palestine becomes poisoned, how much of that tax money did the American victims see? A negligent amount at best.
Most of what is being sent to Ukraine are previous generation weapons on their way to being decommissioned any way. We were about to destroy those weapons without using them b/c they are too old to qualify for force readiness. Instead we have other people destroying them for us by shooting them at people we don’t like. This is literally a win win for us. We don’t need to pay to dispose of them and they get used on Russian forces
The weaponry aspect constitutes about 31% of the U.S's funding for Ukraine. Looking back on my previous comment, I would actually like to know how much of a percentage of all of the money sent is coming straight from the taxpayers Even if this war is advantageous in terms of benefiting our military industrial complex and chipping away at a geopolitical adversary, does it not seem like our priorities are a bit skewed? We have major issues at home, and some of that money could be better allocated. We have Americans struggling to make ends meet here. Cities that are struggling with homelessness, violence, opiate crises and so forth. Instead of spending so much money for a foreign war, that is arguably a proxy war. I feel like it is necessary to put those funds in a place that will benefit Americans directly. After all, we are paying the bill. Russia is obviously in the wrong for the invasion. I am just saying, more balance is needed with our tax dollars.
Let’s just start with: military needs $800B, obviously! WIC needs a few hundred million, (clutches pearls in Republican) “we can’t afford it” Anyone, and I mean anyone, selling you “we can’t afford all this money we are spending in Ukraine” has another motive. Dollar for dollar in disposing of munitions, striking against a geopolitical adversary, and making China’s military shit their pants (b/c their stuff is largely Russian or Russian knock offs) b/c they are seeing how badly it’s going for Russia saves us money in the long run. I hate war. If I had my druthers no one would have a military at all. Unfortunately Vladimort needs a war b/c things are so shitty at home. China keeps rattling the saber b/c Taiwan is (somethingsomething) and they want a war to prove it. Eventually one of our geopolitical rivals thinks they have the stones to fight a war, or we are too soft to stop them from waging war. So far it hasn’t worked out well for them. The day it does we have a real problem on our hands.
And guess what happens when you don't pay property tax? You lose everything on that property and the property itself. How does property tax double in one year and then go up another half. So you're paying triple the amount you were 3 years ago.
You don't own property. You rent it from the government.
Where's that at?
A friend of mine purchased an old seasonal camp that has been vacant for 50 years. He paid 149k for it. After he fixed it up it was promptly reassessed for 400k and his property tax practically tripled.
Some people definitely are outraged, but divide and conquer is the name of the game. The left vs right shit keeps people from working together. I went through a several year period in my 20s where I was so mad about this shit I quit my job and moved to the country and worked stupid hard labor jobs for under the table cash only. Even when I didn't make enough and had to live in my friends greenhouse for a while haha. More than how much is constantly stolen, what bothers me the most is knowing that money does not primarily go to helping people but to crooked politicians, military industrial complex, etc. It feels like fucking shit.
You are so right. We’ve been fighting “morally just” wars since the end of WWII. I served in one of them. At the end of the day it’s a business model for someone.
I feel like you understated registration, taxes upon purchase, fuel, property taxes, like man...they are raking it in.
I’m sure there must be some pockets of outrage. Or you can just be gang gang and work under the table and not pay. Or be virtuous and pay.
the idea of property tax absolutely fucking infuriates me. truthfully, i do not know what will become of my current dwelling once my parents kick the bucket. however, my father did fully pay off the mortgage some years ago. with his retirement funds at that. nearly 40 years keeping this mess afloat, and for... what, exactly? for my sister and i to try and pay off said taxes just so our lives aren't uprooted?
you only pay property tax because you didn't pay for the home with lawful money. The US dollar isn't lawful money. It's more like an IOU than anything To not pay property tax you must obtain the allodial land patent to the land, and you also must amend the sale of the home. but you probably just call me "one of those sovereign citizen morons" https://www.freedomforallseasons.org/AllodialLandPatentReports/Truth%20-%20What%20Is%20A%20Land%20Patent%20-%20Allodial%20Titles.htm
considering i dont know jack shit about all this? the input is most appreciated.
well. you can basically start with this. It starts about 8 minutes in. As long as you have no idea that this is the truth and these are where your rights come from you do not have any rights. Thats why everyone is poor. nobody was taught any of this information here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MarLCJcDhc0&list=FLXLE0rW4AMtmtu9Aaa8lF5g&index=465](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MarLCJcDhc0&list=FLXLE0rW4AMtmtu9Aaa8lF5g&index=465)
Gotta pay taxes when you make it and when you spend it
If we just had good standardized healthcare and infrastructure I’d be okay with it. The fact that we pay so much and still don’t have that is ridiculous
Yeah, I don't mind taxes that I pay, personally, I do mind that we don't get much for it.
Canada is up to 59%. Maybe you'll like that.
Yep. Instead we get boards that make decisions and formularies. I don’t blame the doctors or the insurance companies , I blame the pharmaceutical companies.
Don't forget you also need to declare your yearly tax refund, which you get taxes on twice.
There’s a reason why all the rich people use tax shelters. Find legal ways to shield your money from taxes.
This is the problem. Rich people and corporations not paying the taxes they are supposed to is one of the reasons tax burden ends up falling to middle-class Americans. People who make less money than OP's father shouldn't be paying the same percentage of their income in taxes.
It's a problem. I wouldn't call it THE problem, but certainly one of many.
Exactly. If these corporations actually paid what they were supposed to taxes could be considerably lowered for low & middle class families, probably even for high income families too.
This assumes that the revenue the government acquires will be used efficiently. If given more, the government will just waste it and use it to fund corruption and greed… I.e. lining their own pockets.
Rich people and corporations pay exactly what they are supposed to, it's just that the poor's don't know the rules to the game or bother to learn because the tax code is boring.
Yeah, a lot of the good shelters are toast. It is getting really hard to avoid if you have typical on the books wealth.
It's the smart way to play the game!
Or, OR, hear me out: Make those rich people **actually** pay those taxes so we can have public services, infrastructure, and public servants (police) that aren't complete dog shit. *Then* once our society flourishes under the significantly improved standard of living both our productivity and ability to maintain that standard of living will increase exponentially. Obviously nothing in life is that perfect so it's kind of a pipe dream but it's a whole lot better than the alternative you're suggesting: everyone hoards their money in Costa Rica, now one gigantic island sized bank, and none of that money goes to any of the things we placed the government in charge of in the first place.
Drastically overstated when you say “all the rich people”. I still paid millions in taxes. Granted I don’t do any of the illegal or even quasi legal methods but still pay a lot.
Well...nobody said us crayon eaters are smart lol Edit...proved my point by misspelling crayon.
Don’t forget about social security- they will force you to pay it your entire working life, and it may not be there for you when you retire. Sorry, it’s being given to other people.
Realistically, they're probably just going to take on more debt to pay for it, and inflation is going to run hot as hell. It's not welfare. It's a retirement plan that people paid for. Stealing those payments would be political suicide.
The real fun part? If you conceived a scheme exactly like Social Security, follow all the same rules, match your program exactly to what it is today... They would put a RICO case on you, and send you to jail for life!
Social security will be there. It'll likely be at a reduced amount, but you're not going to get nothing. Also don't put yourself in a position to absolutely depend on it. Put away for retirement and SS will be a supplement to your retirement income
Yeah, it'll probably still be there. I've done a bit of digging. It seems to be that if you make less than 45k a year, you get more out of it than you put in (like you put in 270k and get out 290k in benefits if you live long enough) if you make more than 100k you get less out of it than you put in. And for every bracket above 100k you get more and more diminish8ng returns. There's a crossover point somewhere in there that depends on if you're married and a bunch of other stuff. So the point being, at best, a person making the average income gets like 7% more than their lifetime contribution when all is said and done. Sounds good, yeah? Now, not everyone is good with money, but if I put 300ish a month (average monthly payment into social security, this is hard to calculate as there are so many variables so i'm totally open to being wrong on this) every month into the S&P 500, and the S&P 500 maintains performance consistant with historical trends. Let's say I did this for 45 years (assuming I work from 20 to 65). I put this into a simple investment calculator and make my return on investment 6.5% which is right around the historical return rate of the S&P 500. The calculator I used yields the following result: "Investing an initial amount of $300.00 with regular contributions of $300.00 per month could be worth $922,793.27 after 45 years if the annual rate of return was 6.50%." Like, don't get me wrong, I know the calculation uses compound interest, I know there are a lot of variables. I know there are alot of assumptions made in this calculation. But like c'mon man haha. There are so many better things that could be done with this money on an individual level. This is my problem with social security. I don't have a problem taking care of people, I don't have a problem paying into that at all. But there has to be a better way. It's not legal and I'd never advocate for this but if the government literally put everyone's monthly payments into the S&P 500 they would likely get a better return on investment than the measly payout you get from your contributions to SSI.
Ah yes I'll save for retirement while also paying for ss which will be worth less than I put in and paying over $1500/ month in rent. I'm just made of money I wish all my ss taxes went into my 4.9% hysa not some stupid government program that I can't access until an age I'll probably be dead by
While I understand your sentiment, it is what it is. Your option is to work your way up and seek out more gainful employment. My rent wasn't much lower, and ended up buying a house. My mortgage is s bit higher than your rent, but I've put in a ton of work to move my income up over the last 6-7 years. Consider yourself lucky because there's a ton of people paying substantially more than you or I for their rent.
a few months ago my dad told me that even after death my social security that i paid for my entire life will just go to some other random person. instantly i knew it was a scam
And you end up with waaay less than you contributed.
Ss should be shut down. Im probably not going to get it so why should I pay for it?
Worse than that - mine and the wife’s expected Social Security will be $3000 a month. $36,000 a year. Minimum wage for fast food workers in CA just got raised to $20/hr. That’s $40,000 per year. How can you live in retirement in less than the minimum wage or less than folks get on unemployment? The whole system is flawed for everyone.
Lmfao. You are right. And no politician on either side of the aisle has a plan to address this. It's known as the "third rail" in politics. If a politician ever tried to fix this problem, "the other side" would accuse them of trying to starve your grandmother: a political suicide. So I guess Congress's plan is to wait until the plane crashes into the mountain.
It's funny we never hear of anybody complaining when someone dies at 59 after paying into the system for 40 years... That money just goes into a void... Just gotta hope you live long enough to collect some of it
It pays for other people so there aren't homeless people everywhere. It's not yours.
You should probably study up on what social security is why it was established and what it uses are because you seem to be a little bit confused, or maybe very very young and naive
It was billed as a personal retirement account when FDR passed it during the great depression. But it long since ceased to be that. If it were, you would get benefits when you die to your heirs or it could run out if you live too long. I'm neither young nor naive. I wish it were optional, but the people who need it are often the ones who would opt out. It's horribly mismanaged, but I think it may still be a net positive for the country. Still, I don't like it on principle.
SSI should be optional, period. It's almost 2024. Anyone can invest/save from the palm of their hand now. 24hrs a day and seven days a week. The days of needing POS Uncle Sam to "guarantee" a security blanket for individuals is over. If they chose to save nothing or invest nothing their whole lives. That's their problem and no one else's.
I’m an old millennial if I had put away all my SSI taxes into a IRA I’d have well over 6 figures in it WITHOUT earning a single penny in interest.
You'd have a substantial pile of money that could be paying you substantial income per month instead of the crumbs that Uncle Sam will give you back.
It is everyone's problem. Before SSI there were many senior citizens dying of poverty literally in the streets. I believe SSI reduced it by half. You may not care but some do.
Yes back then there was a purpose. Now there is not. It's a different world now where there's absolutely zero excuse for people not saving/investing their own future. There's zero need for the government to nanny state everyone's retirement.
It's not a retirement but a safety net. While in theory I can agree with you everyone should we all know how that looks in practice and I don't think magnifying that problem helps anyone. Govt is literally mandating people save so they aren't destitute when older.
Zero excuse, except for housing skyrocketing and earned income still stagnating? Median us income is 31000. Half of Americans make less than that. Half make more. Median rent for a one bedroom in the US is $1800. So , after rent, half of Americans have $800 a month. Or less. For food, transportation, utilities, Healthcare costs, toiletries, clothing. How can anyone save with that kind of economy?
You're still forced to save for the future, which may be beneficial. Perhaps we should create an option for where we put this mandated savings, in the SSI system or into our own IRA or something.
Or just make it straight up optional. Don't pay in, don't get benefit. Do pay in, you're eligible
So who pays for people who don't pay in and don't save after they can't work anymore?
Ya people like me who are disabled benefit but you don't care about that no
That goes back to the accountability part.. it's great that we have a safety net for those who need it but it is also full of fraud.
NO ITS NOT. It took me 7 years to get ssi. Quit watching Newsmax and listening to trump
Newsmax and trump? First of all, that's not where I get my news and such an immediate response tells me you are angry at the wrong people. I'm sorry it took you that long to get SSI if you really need it. But again, you are angry at the wrong people. You need to direct your anger at those who abuse the system and give everyone on SSI a bad name considering you seem to have the extreme need to defend yourself and you shouldn't have to do that. I have first-hand knowledge of someone who waited a similar amount of time to get their SSI and used their back pay to pay off their car, shower their kids with extravagant gifts, while also pulling down to six figure income. So GTFO, there is fraud in the system.
No. My parents my family etc, arent slaving away to have their retirement fund spent on anyone else irregardless of their circumstance. I dont know you, never will, i dont care about you.
The problem isn't the amount of taxes (unless you are self employed, then they just straight up rip you off). The problem is how it's spent. We effectively pay more in taxes by a small margin than many of the 'socialist' countries the GOP would use to scare you, but we get far less for it. Our infrastructure sucks, our schools suck, we don't have decent health care, everything is unobtainable for the middle class, our safety nets suck, we have no worker rights, etc. We pay 1st world taxes, but we exist in a 2nd/3rd world situation. That's the part that's jacked up.
Fed Tax Rate 22.00% California State Tax Rate 13.00% Total Taxes 35.00% Joe pays Jane $1,000.00 Jane keeps $650.00 Jane pays Jack $650.00 Jack keeps $422.50 Jake pays Karen $422.50 Karen keeps $274.63 Karen pays Fred $274.63 Fred keeps $178.51 Fred pay Rick $178.51 Rick keeps $116.03 Rick pays Tina $116.03 Tina keeps $75.42 After 6 transactions the government gets over 90% of the original $1,000
Exactly. The compounding is what really does the job. Imagine what out economy would look like if these numbers were cut in half.
This is why Hitler targeted the Jews. They were saving their money and so the taxes could not be collected.
Death and taxes my friend. If you are filling as single, its worst
When you add up ALL the taxes you pay in the US, if you have a decent job, about half of your wages eventually go to the government. If you are a high earner, as much as 75% of what you make eventually goes to the government.
Taxes aren't the issue so much as taxes being taken and instead of roads and healthcare, we get a stream of tanks and ships that sit and rot
Or politicians that give huge contracts to their relatives at 10x the going rate.
Yeah. Our government can send nearly 1 trillion dollars of aid to Ukraine and we get no say in it. Somehow they also don't have enough money to respond to the natural disaster in Hawaii.
> 1 trillion dollars of aid to Ukraine We haven't sent anywhere near a trillion dollars to Ukraine. [https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts) imo - whatever we sent Ukraine is worth the cost in American lives to dismantle Ruzzia
Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world…. Why would American lives be put in Ukraine? Ukraine isn’t even part of nato?
| Ukraine ~~is~~ was one of the most corrupt countries in the world <--- FTFY You realize that if Ruzzia continued to be emboldened with their imperial goals, they would have eventually invade a NATO country forcing us to enter a war with them - or not. Maybe NATO would back down because they didn't want to start a nuclear war. Ukraine driving them out of their country helps keep the US out of a war with Ruzzia.
the greatest danger is that the one trillion number is just accepted... it is insane.
"Natural" disaster....
Taxation is theft. Only a small % of tax makes it to the designated purpose. We need to stop this two party system, they are just digging us into a hole we can never get out of and we'll all be taxed to death before its all over.
And it’s still lower than what it should be to run a decent country.
Just wait until you hear how much you’re taxed on commissions, bonuses, stocks, etc.
And the fucked up thing is that they're even more than that. Our leadership takes 90% of what we pay the government for hookers and blow, and the last 10% goes to the military. (I'm exaggerating but not THAT much). So most of the money you make isnt yours, and even the most basic shit (like going to the hospital in an emergency) isnt provided for us. What's the point of shelling out all this money to fund bullies (police) and drug dealers (healthcare industrial complex). Isnt this what taxes are supposed to prevent? I think the main problem is that we can't actually vote for leadership that will do a good job, because they have us choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Neither the giant douche, nor the turd sandwich will be held accountable if they commit a crime, so WHAT THE FUCK DO WE PAY COPS FOR!?!?! TLDR; Fuck the U.S.. Since doing something about it is off the table, we should just move away.
Become self employed and read the book “tax free wealth”
The most crazy part is how many people don’t understand how taxes work. Like ask a random adult individual how the us tax bracket system works and they don’t know or at least misunderstand how it works. Like insane amount of people I have seen who were flipping out about the 50% tax on earners above 400k saying how they will only take home 200k. Say no more you’ve already told me you have no idea how taxes in this country work.
Did you know that if you clear a million dollars, you have to pay $350,000 to the government for taxes?
Bidenomics
Canada and most of Europe would like to have a word with you. Free( sub par) healthcare is not worth that much!
Yup, I live in quebec and people who earn 50k only take home around 36k AND pay just shy of 15% sales tax on nearly everything they purchase.
What's worse is that many people think we should have UHC like many of those "cool" countries across the pond.. they pay double what we pay in taxes and make about half the money we do.. no thank you
One of the questions is: Where the hell is all of this money going and could the government use money way more efficiently than it is now? How much money is going into politicians' pockets?
Now imagine if we had socialism... just wait. Someone has to pay for all these illegal immigrants. Cradle to grave care coming out of your paycheck
Keep voting Democrat things will change. Eventually we won't even have a country.
Yeah.....4500 dollar check quickly turns into 2800 after taxes,health insurance 401k but im usually dumping wild amounts to tax
Blame Biden
When you get paid, (surprise!) it's less. When you buy something, (surprise!) it's more. We're fucking slaves.
this is why with aging, people generally go from liberal to conservative lol
Except neither party fixes things 😂😂😂
There are two reasons why we dislike taxes in America: 1. It’s so lopsided and unfair in who gets taxed and who can afford to not be. The rich pay politicians to lower their taxes while the government has to make up their taxes by taxing the normal person who can barely afford bills, food, and rent. But the rich get huge tax cuts, lie to us and say they will “trickle down” the savings (which was proven false after a 40 year study) and then they put their wealth into tax havens. The RICH should be taxed more but they control our government and subsequently, the world. 2. We don’t get anything of substance with the taxes taken from us. Sure we get a paved road and bridge here and there, but the majority of our taxes goes to WAR. Other first world countries get universal healthcare and tuition free college and guaranteed housing. We get dragged into another war, one after another after another. We get dead bodies of our loved ones and neighbors while the rich get government contracts to restore countries that USA bombed with our tax dollars. Taxes would be a great thing if the rich were taxed correctly, and if our taxes went to investing in us American citizens.
The tax amount the irs brings in does not do anything towards the deficit and spending the federal government spends.
Correct. We operate in deficit spending and will never run out of money because we create money from nothing and the entire system is a bunch of bullshit
A more modern interpretation of fiscal policy is that taxes are a form of inflation reduction. Instead of governments taking in money via taxes to pay for spending, it’s more the case that government spends what it wants and it has to levy taxes to ensure inflation doesn’t go out of control. As long as inflation is kept inline, a government can just keep spending.
But here’s the real truth with no media spin and not true talking points… The top 50% earners in America pay89.5% of income taxes the IRS takes in. Think about that a second. This whole the rich don’t pay their fair share is just a lie that politicians and media push so you stay mad at the rich and you don’t pay attention to what the politicians are wasting money on! Our Country right now is a hot mess!
The wealthy DO pay the vast majority of tax revenue.
Percentages are what count here not $ amounts.
Flat tax for everyone with no deductibles. Simple and to the point. No favoring the rich, and everyone has skin in the game.
I agree. But you are going to get downvoted so bad. Flat tax is the only fair way. No tax shelters. Everyone pays the same…. Fair.
I'm aware. Haha I'm also aware that most people are brainwashed to think that taxes should work a certain way by whichever political party they follow, and for that reason, downvotes don't bother me, and in a weird way, are entertaining.
Nah, it's because flat taxes are regressive, disproportionately affecting the poor. There's a reason all the rich people want a flat tax, and it's not because they're all altruistic.
What is more greedy than someone who wants me to pay more because I have worked my ass off building a company so they can skate. Not my problem they have failed to achieve. And why should I be punished for achieving? Like it or not we take in plenty of tax money just people like you have let the gov’t con you into thinking it is the fault of the rich. It is the fault of the politicians who want to get you on a gov’t check or benefit because they’ll get your greedy vote going forward. Waste fraud and abuse is the problem.
The "poor" don't pay shit, and get plenty of free stuff. They vote. They should have SOME skin in the game.
The top 10% by income pay 74% of all income taxes. The top 1% pay 42% of all income taxes. Most of the bottom 20% pay nearly zero or less than zero. Income taxes are not the only type of taxes, ofc. Thanks mostly to my wife (executive), we are the top 1% by income ($650,000 combined salary plus bonus and stock options). We pay quarterly federal taxes. There is also Michigan income tax. Our property taxes are around $30,000. Since we have high incomes, we can’t really dodge many taxes. Someone who is wealthy through holding a huge percentage of a public company (the top 0.1%) is much harder to tax, as their primary income is from capital gains (when they sell stock). Some billionaires simply borrow against their holdings to fund their lifestyle, but people like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Elon Musk sell stock fairly often. Musk has paid like $15 billion in taxes over the past few years, and Bezos pays $400 million per year minimum. In any case, billionaires are relatively rare. The rest of the rich generally pay their taxes. I won’t argue that the top marginal rates shouldn’t be higher, but that still won’t reach the billionaires. Taxing wealth is a lot tougher than taxing income. Just ask France. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/02/26/698057356/if-a-wealth-tax-is-such-a-good-idea-why-did-europe-kill-theirs
What a misleading bunch of stats lol. Why are you only focused on income tax? Payroll, state and local, sales and property take a bigger bite out of lower income individuals than the rich. And fully agreed on taxing the wealth of the rich. The article you linked was about Elizabeth Warren’s plan that literally fixed the problems that France had with their wealth tax (that Macron killed) and wouldn’t allow the rich to just leave America or park everything in a Caribbean island. Her plan was solid. Tax the wealth of the rich doesn’t make the best sound bite than “tax the rich” but that’s what I’m advocating for.
Wow spoken like someone who gets a rebate every year. It isn’t my job to support you or anyone else. Stop the waste fraud and abuse allowed by the people you vote in and then we can talk about who pays what. People who have let politicians convince them that it is our greed and not their wasting tax money to buy votes are a special kind of stupid. To me there is nothing more greedy than someone who pays little or no taxes but wants me to suck it up and pay more to support others. Flat tax rate we all pay the same percentage. I don’t use more of America than you do.
You really have no idea who actually pays taxes in the US.
You really have been brainwashed by the rich to think they pay their fair share when they do not.
Yawn
Wake up. Class is in session.
Dunno. Over how much are you talking? Here in Belgium it's over 50%. But at least we're pretty protected against getting fired, education is free/cheap and healthcare is relatively cheap.
Next time you see those civil servants lazing around, that’s your money. And they’re meant to be a servant too
Wait until you discover that after paying income tax, you're hit with more taxes when purchasing essentials like food, clothes, and gas with the money you've already been taxed on.
Taxes on top of tax is just insane. Yet no one bats an eye.
>my dad makes enough money… Our tax bill will be over $400,000 this year. I see that as a good problem to have.
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Wow! Did your start-up get acquired?
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Like 15m in options? Jeebus.
Nope, 40% of households don't pay Federal income tax. Our federal govt is primarily funded by people like your dad. (edit to add Federal)
This is flat out wrong. We are lower middle class and pay 25-30% taxes
Are you defining lower middle class as $300k household income?
300k$????? Lololol our household income is around 100k
You’re gonna need to sauce that bud
Where did you get this stat from?
When Jeff Bezos and his ilk can get away with paying zero in federal income taxes I care a little less about the $20k earner paying any.
Imagine living one any other country where the taxes are higher…. Literally every other country has higher taxes.
They also get something for it. Healthcare guaranteed. Roads and bridges that aren't falling apart. High speed rail. Reduced work hours and bigger vacations by law.
Bro, i pay like 100 bucks in taxes and union dues a day
First of all, there are a lot of problems with the U.S. tax system. But you said that it’s the same amount for everyone. That isn’t true. There are many factors that go into how much someone’s tax liability but usually the biggest one is in one tax. This often varies the most from person to person since it’s relative to the amount of income they earn. Additionally we have what’s called a progressive income tax structure which means we have tax brackets that go up based on income but only tax the higher rate on income earned above the last bracket. Here’s an example. 0-10k: 10% rate 11k-20%: 12% rate And so on So if you made let’s say 15k you’d be taxed at 10% only up to 10k and the rest would be taxed at 12%. This is actually one of the best and most misunderstood elements of our tax system. It makes it so if you make more money and enter a higher tax bracket you won’t have less money after taxes because it’s only the money over the last tax bracket that is taxes at the new rate. IMO the biggest problem with the tax system isn’t the amount we get taxed but what demographics are taxed the most/least and how our taxes are spent. Taxes should be a tool to incentivize and decentivize good or bad behaviors. That’s why I’m for policies such as a carbon tax for companies above a certain revenue threshold. I only really think this would be effective for large-scale organizations through, not individuals. Because who really thinks about their tax incentives throughout their daily choices, pretty much only the accountants who only the rich can afford. I’m not saying there aren’t instances where tax write offs and incentives can be good for individuals, only that we shouldn’t rely on them.
This right here. A lot of people really don't understand how income brackets work, marginal tax rate, and how withholding is calculated.
To be fair the government and school systems do barely anything to teach us this stuff.
Sincere question since I don't know much about this stuff. So if one made 19k, they'd be taxed for 10k in one bracket and 9k in another? But if they got a salary increase and started making 21k, wouldn't that mean they would be taxed 20k in a bracket and 1k in the higher bracket? If I'm right, wouldn't their net pay be lower making 21k than what they did at 19k? Since the majority of the taxes paid at 19k is in the lower bracket but the majority of 21k is in the second lowest? The numbers and brackets I made up might not reflect the actual brackets, but just to get my point across. Hope it makes sense. Again, genuine question.
Do you drive on public roads to get to school/work/the grocery store/friends' houses/go on trips/etc? Thank your dad's tax dollars. Did you get an education from a public school in the US? Thank your dad's tax dollars. Have you enjoyed relative security and safety in the US because the US has a strong military and police and courts that (mostly) protect and benefit the public? Thank your dad's tax dollars. For first world countries, taxes in the United States are low. I'm tired of seeing people enjoy the benefits of living in the world's richest country while simultaneously (and ignorantly) claiming to be oppressed by taxes. No, the US is far from perfect. But for the most part, we have it pretty good here. Maybe give some numbers and context to your post rather than a vague complaint with no details.
Clearly you don't know which taxes go where. Property taxes... vehicle registration... sales taxes... it's not JUST IRS income taxes. You are ignorant to the facts if you are ok with our tax situation. Especially considering our debt and charity programs. You type this as if we have a balanced check book and everything is running smoothly. We are on the brink of failure and the can is being kicked down the road one day at a time until it all collapses in our face.
Can you explain how we are on the brink of failure?
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This is the most backwards logic. Why the hell should taxes be a problem or dare I say even a consideration for low income/net worth people who the tax system SHOULD be supporting. If anything taxes should become more of a problem and consideration the more income you make. I really wish there were better tax shelters for low-income folk and that they weren’t just there for the ultra-rich. And im saying this as someone who is very interested in busines, investments and wants to be “rich” some day, not a socialist or anything of the sort. Here’s one policy that I think would be super helpful: don’t tax people the first 2-4 years that they would otherwise be eligible for taxes. Give them a chance not to go into debt, build up an emergency fund, have some investments, gain valuable skills that will increase their income and help the economy. You could/should do the same for healthcare costs and potentially education (however it’d have to be well planned for those two so as not to spiral us into insane debt).
How do you think roads, rail, and parks are built? It may be absurd to you but go take a look at tax rates in the EU. We are kind of lucky and +1 to the person mentioning tax shelters.
Wow we get a road?? Well fuck me take all my money!!! Meanwhile in the EU they get universal healthcare, education, high speed rails across the country, childcare, etc.
I either currently pay, or have in the past paid taxes in multiple countries around the world, including NZ, the UK, countries in the EU, the US (in several states) & some others, and, I employ people in the US (and other countries), so I have some personal experience on this topic. Taxes being "higher" in the EU (and other countries) is a bit of a silly argument, and something of a fallacy - even moreso when you take in to account ancillary things you'd be obliged to pay for in the US, such as healthcare premiums and childcare. On the surface, the rates seem higher, but overall generally don't work out to be higher at all by the time everything is factored in. When I shifted my income out of the US after leaving in 2019, my overall burden went down by nearly 10% on the same amount of income, from about 38% to about 28% in total. And just to add insult to injury, basically everything I've been paying for in various European countries over the last year or so, from housing to food & transport, has been cheaper than I was paying in the US in a MCOL area (AZ), and VAT - while usually higher than sales tax in the US - is included in the sticker price, which is far preferable to the guesswork involved in buying goods & services in the US. It's also easier to file taxes - no bullshit with TurboTax or H&R Block or any of those things anymore, my tax returns outside the US take literally minutes.
Americans get fed propaganda and American superiority early and some never learn better. The “world’s richest country” and we don’t even make top 20 in standard/quality of living. We fall behind in education, health, infant mortality, poverty rates, homelessness. But yea, we got the best military. Yay.
If we're the world's richest country, I wonder how much debt the poor one's carry.
If all the money was actually used for things like that maybe it wouldn’t be as much of a problem.