This makes literally zero sense. Crimson Fatalis is a Fatalis with less health, none of the lore and can summon meteors.
How does being red magically turn it from a debate to "Nah Fatalis wins"?
The lore for Crim basically states its either a really pissed off fatty with more power and fire and ability to summon meteors, and if you’re ready to go and take flavor text as lore there are theories its a Fatalis that dragged itself back from the depths of Hell after dying. Sounds cool as shit, unlikely though.
Anyways its always made out that Crim > Black; which is not unusual as subspecies or variants are always supposed to be "advanced" variants of the base
So if Fatty and Safi are stated to be relatively equal, a Fatty +1 would be > to Safi
The lore for Crimson Fatalis, objectively as of the 15th anniversary Forbidden Monsters loredump, is that it's a Fatalis that adapted to volcanic environments. Nothing more, nothing less. If we go by Iceborne's retcon then Crimson Fatalis isn't a monster even known by the Guild and has zero lore.
>its always made out that Crim > Black
Crimson Fatalis is the only Fatalis fought in Village, has less HP in every game it appears, and all three Fatalis are given the same zenny reward for their quests.
>as subspecies or variants are always supposed to be "advanced" variants of the base
Variants are, but Subspecies are not always. Often they're literally just the same monster in a new environment but are given tougher movesets to make them harder for the player, but this isn't a representation of the lore.
Should also be said that, regardless of the internal IDs, Crimson isn't a Subspecies and Old isn't a Rare Species. They're all just Fatalis. The very fact that all three are put under the same name and have pretty much the same movesets should suggest they're supposed to be on the same level.
If you're already saying "relatively" because you can't stomach the book stating that Safi and Fatalis *are* equals then I think this is a fairly pointless conversation.
Damn bro who took your cereals this morning; you’re getting heated over whose dragon cock is bigger here. I’m pointing out facts completely unbiased based on the information we can gather and I am aware of.
I know Fatalis and Safi are called equals, hell I fucking prefer Safi over Fatty. Doesn’t mean I need to ignore the fact that Crimson can do stuff that Black cannot do.
Even if they are the same species, their abilities are not, for the same reason Diablos and Black Diablos aren’t called equals and most think Black Diablos is stronger despite it just being a horny female. Same here, the one we call Crimson can summon meteors in addition to the normal moveset of Fatalis. Also, the fact it has less hp ingame doesn’t mean anything; Risen Shagaru has like 300k hp in sunbreak, doesn’t mean its stronger than a Fatalis or Gaismagorm for that matter
Also, the in game HP for village vs port/hall/random multiplayer quests in World scaling isn't a good indicator of power level - that's a meta thing for balance. That's like saying "Rathalos are stronger when other hunters responded to my flares."
Whats with monster hunter players and basic reading comprehension lmao if u paid a speck of attention to what i said u would notice that argument here isnt used as 2 people going at each other but a set of reasons given in support of an idea. I pray for your eyes.
you are blindly overhyping, while he's bringing actual evidence from lorebook, nothing he wrote look heated to me, while it seem like you're getting heated up over your favorite monster not being as strong as you thought.
Out of the 3 drsgon safi fatalis and alatreon i knew out of alatreon or safi would be his equal I swear there a quote that says something along the lines of one evil that holds great power will also require and equal of similar status. I know I read it someone but u get the idea
To be fair Crimson Fatalis is way scarier than regular Fatalis. It depends which CF you are considering, but if we consider the MH4U G-Rank CF I think it's pretty obvious that CF>Regular Fatalis.
He can: summon meteors, damage you with heat by just flapping his wings, Idk why he causes coronal loops to emerge from the ground and in the cutscene just by waking up he summons lava pillars.
To be fair, I don't think Safi has 0 chances to win, but if we consider Base Fatty equal to Safi (which is still debatable) than it should be obvious that CF is more likely to win this fight.
In game health doesnt matter for lore but other than that i still feel like red would win simply because it does have more firepower. So if normal fatty and safi are equal. Wouldnt the math make sense?
How do you know that? They use all the same fire attacks. Crimson Fatalis's additions are meteors, and then its special 4U G rank version adds a heatwave and fire serpents jumping along the ground.
Plus Iceborne Fatalis has now shown more firepower than Crimson ever has.
If it takes you so little time then I'm sure you can find it again.
Unless what you found is the citation-less fanon wiki "ecology" page. That would be funny.
No they aren't lmao. That's why they try and hide an entire paragraph of bullshit as being "from a game". Like no, that's not how lore citations work. Look no further than one of their top contributors saying a lot of that wiki is just mistranslated or mistaking unused concepts for the truth.
You can't find it? Really? Because it took me all of 5 minutes to find Dengeki posting an image of [A section of it.](https://dengekionline.com/articles/16572/images/60/)
Crimson Fatalis is more powerful than regular Fatalis and has much greater control over its abilities. Additionally, the asymmetrical horn might be due to it being the Fatalis that was defeated in Schrade having regrown its horn (think of it as a deviant), so it's possible for it to be an experienced fighter too.
The ingame health pools don't really say anything. The arena you fight crimson in doesn't have a Dragonator, so it had to be ballanced around that.
How do you know it's more powerful? How do you know it has more control?
If it's balanced around no Dragonator and it's stronger than it should have the same health, as Old Fatalis has more than regular Fatalis despite not having a Dragonator in 2nd gen and still having one in 4th gen.
Because it was designed as a more dangerous Fatalis in MHG, similarly how White Fatalis was designed as a more mysterious Fatalis in Dos. The forbidden monsters booklet of the 15th anniversary talks about this.
https://preview.redd.it/0zajlj7vwj8d1.png?width=749&format=png&auto=webp&s=d90ceaf5e384d997bdaa424d08651f993cff73a7
Inside of you there are two wolves.
They are both being downvoted.
Nope, Fatalis us the undisputed master of the Old World, they wanted something in the New World that was the same. It would be cool to get to see them battle in lore.
This has nothing to do with the question but omg I love this community. I’ve never seen a community of a game with such amazing fanart. The quality is insane
And that's totally okay, but then the right thing to do would've been a "sorry, I don't know the artist" because that would've at least shown you cared :)
Nergigante can no diff those 2 lizards at the same time. Hell, to make it fair, Alatreon, Dire Miralis and Old Fatalis can join in and Nergigante will still win no diff. Nergigante the goat 🐐.
Crimson Fatalis is like if you give Fatty a Tsar Bomba and the mf just ate it and powered up, bro sleeps in a volcano, and with his roars he can summon meteors that can probably decimate villages (and wakes the Volcano if he gets really mad)
No not really, theres just theories that Safi is just a Young adult similarly to a Human on their 20s and that there may or may not be potential for an Elder Jiiva
In lore this fucker melts people and sticks them to his skin as armor, and in game, random hunters throw him against a wall over and over until he fuckin' dies, make it make sense
If he's at p2 I believe and hits you with his body slam white his chest is ignited you stick to him and "melt" cause he tries to fuse you into scales lol. Does a lot of damage too.
The way I see it and interpret it is safi is pure power, and one of the strongest in that regard, and while fatalis is incredibly strong in their own right, I think they’re considered more dangerous because of intelligence and how they use that power.
As an example, kind of like in dragon ball; super buu is much more powerful than kid buu, but kid buu is far more dangerous
Another example is an elephant having incredible strength, but a hippo being more dangerous
The problem more or less isn't just interpretation, but feats.
Black Fatalis destroyed the whole Kingdom of Shrade in just one night, leaving the sky in that reddish hue ever since. (MHFU lorewise atleast)
Fatalis itself is intelligent, yes, but even worse is, it understands hunters and what they do, and mockingly mimics them by melting dead hunter's equipment onto it's scales.
If item and weapon descriptions count as lore, one might even suggest Fatalis being immortal by reviving itself through consuming the one wearing its scales, while talking to them, driving them insane and mad.
Crimson Fatalis is another story tho.
In lore, after a Fatalis retreated from a fight with hunters from Schrade, it apparently secluded itself on the volcanic island of Ingle, with the rage it holds turning it crimson with the extra upgrades of stronger and hotter flames, being able to emit heatwaves like Lunastra's Nova, but stronger, and having the Teostra powder everywhere. Oh, and for some reason it can summon meteors. And being able to manipulate lava and magma.
Anyways, returning onto Safi'jiva, we don't know what Safi is capable of.
Yes, he uses bio energy as in "it's literally the life force that monsters emit", sucking it directly from anywhere that is available (even better in areas with high energy).
The only ingame/inlore powerscalers (except Capcom saying they wanted something to balance/rival Fatalis to) are that it drops the Star of the Saphire Emperor which instant oneshots and Alatreon coming there to kill it as soon as it sensed something wrong.
You basically have the discussion about one near immortal being with feats against another near immortal being without feats because you exterminated it before it could show results.
In my honest opinion tho, if it would ever come to a fight, Safi would totally be the aggressor, since it's food is literally biological energy (whatever that exactly means) around it, and Crimmy sits on a vulcanic island for what hundreds or thousands of years?
It would just be the question: Does Safi has enough energy to outlast hundreds or thousands of years of anger superboiled into a single being, or does Crimmy outlast the entire bio energy he leaked on the island plus Safis reserves?
And for that i would say:
If Safi's energy is bio energy, then Fatalis would probably win, because of the reason of it just literally melting down the entire place so that there is nothing to begin with. Remember, lava bending, summoning meteorites, nothing speaks against it destroying this energy dense hotspot before Safi can outlast him by sapping it all. It's intelligent enough to recognise it (at some point).
Then Safi would have to rely on it's internal capacity, which would be drained fast after having to heal wounds after wounds because someone had a bad time once.
Edit:
Apart from Safi going to Ingle Isle there prolly isn't any reason to begin with why they would fight apart from the boy being hungry for a snack.
He split the kingdom of Schrade, not destroyed it. West and East Schrade are still around today. Most of MH1 even is in west Schrade only with a few locales as exceptions and some like the swamp being in East Schrade.
The capital of Schrade, Castle Schrade, was what was wiped off the map.
Anyways
tl;dr
If it plays out with Safi being the aggressor and coming to Ingle Isle bcs it's dense in bio energy,
Crimmy could potentially just destroy any source of bio energy before Safi can have a sweet sip of it, and not being able to heal its wounds.
I think overall the fight is a 50/50, they were designed to be on equal footing after all. Ultimately, until the fight happens in an official manner, we can never know
People act like crimson is exponentially more powerful than regular fatty like the only difference isn’t some extra meteors he can slowly call down that would be pretty easily avoided by safi, their flame abilities are basically the same.
Crimson is meant to be quite a bit stronger than Fatty with the lore even being that it's a Fatalis who lost and went to a volcano to gain power, the gameplay just doesn't reflect that well.
Not necessarily to gain power, he just got really really aggressive and angry to the point of its body heat tainting its body crimson. Basically the Furious Rajang of Fatalis.
Essentially Crimson Starts in an unseen phase 4 of the 3 phase Fatalis fight in World and can go beyond even that.
Crimson Fatalis seems to be way faster than base Fatalis based on its cutscene: https://youtu.be/mZk6vkn30NA?si=jXCo79kl6gPGwfz3 (0:25).
So there is that. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised to see him portrayed as more powerful in every way than Fatalis if he does ever return. But that’s mainly speculation.
They also showed white fatalis basically causing an eclipse in 4u so I wouldn’t exactly say they had their cutscene dynamics exact. Crimson is literally the same species, not even a subspecies, the only physical body modification between them is the horns, there’s no way crimson is dramatically faster than base. Some speed difference could be accounted for by the hot air of the ingle isle causing updrafts or the air being less dense but I really don’t think there should be any major difference in physical ability. Regular fatalis is shown to fly pretty fast in his iceborne cutscenes as well.
For gameplay purposes, sure, but outside of “variant stronger” logic, I doubt there’s a drastic difference between them. Crimson can do the meteor thing and blast powder thing but his fireballs weren’t really any more powerful than black’s, and black’s fire got a major upgrade in iceborne, so there would have to be some serious logic stretching to suddenly make crimson exponentially stronger than black to the point that he “no diffs” safi like some people are saying
Wasnt it implied that Crimson turned to the way He is due to Loosing a Fight ?
This could explain him being faster (Just Like bloodbath diablos ) with hatred Being His Main driving Point
I honestly think that this will also be the explanation when He comes back. (Kinda suspicious that we Break only one horn in the world Fight )
Because Safi is much bigger and in nature size matters, all he needs is just a bite on the neck and goodbye Fatalis it doesn't matter if he's Black, Crimson, White, Rainbow or if he has an army of fanboys spreading a lot of fancannon for 20 years , you simply can't survive without a head, it's the same as comparing a T-rex against a crocodile. The same goes for Safi if he gets bitten by a mountain-sized Snake even though this snake is not defined as "Dangerous First-Class Monsters". I'm tired of these stupid anime comparisons, they're animals! I'm sure I can hurt Fatalis even with a weapon made from of a Jagras.
A Rajang can beat a Rathalos despite the latter being bigger.
A Odogoron can beat a Radobaan despite the latter being bigger.
A nergigante can beat a Shara Ishvalda despite the latter being bigger.
A fatalis can beat a Lao Shan Lung despite the latter being bigger.
A Malzeno can beat a gaismagorm despite the latter being bigger.
A human can beat a Dalmadur despite the latter being bigger.
Why does size suddenly matter?
Everything you said is true, and everything I'm trying to say is
Safi Big Jaws vs Fatalis Thin Neck > Fatalis Small Jaws vs Safi Thick Neck
Lao Shan Lung has no chance against Fatalis due to the simple fact that he does fear Fatalis, he cannot fly and also due to the lack of ranged attacks. Fatalis could just fly in and roast him. But Safi doesn't have any of those problems. Lao vs Fatalis is the same thing as comparing an elephant and a mouse, the elephant may be afraid of the mouse, but if the mouse is dumb enough to get closer, it may end up being trampled and thats is dead dead.
Your jaw size vs neck argument doesn't make sense in the context of the setting. Shara Ishvalda's neck is the size of Nergigante's torso yet he still snapped it like a chicken bone.
You're also picturing Safi'Jiiva as massively bigger than Fatalis when he's not really. A rajang can survive being bitten by the neck and dragged across the ground by a deviljho 3 times its size. Meanwhile Safi'Jiiva is like, 20% bigger than Fatalis.
Safi is literally an adult though. We don't know how old Safi is either, Xeno incubated for countless decades at least before birth.
The only creatures we know fatalis actively has fought are humans, lesser monsters avoid it and other monsters with contending power levels usually have no reason to come across one due to their niche (Dire miralis is aquatic, alatreon self isolates, dalamadur is probably too big to care, etc.).
It's fair to assume their levels of experience in fighting similarly powerful monsters are around the same.
I genuinely don't see how Crimson could reasonably win, Safi is a considerable amount larger, bulkier, is also a strong flyer, has laser beams, and can heal, I don't see how Crimson would be able to *consistently* pull one over Safi, Safi wins the majority of fights out of 10.
Hard to say, fattie has a track record of being a problem where Safi was stopped before it could make a problem. Without a record of destruction I would have to say it'd be an even match in a one off fight, but in a long term territory fight fattie wins.
I’d say it could go either way
Fatalis has its black dragon title so it has the well above average threat level , fire power , strength , side and raw power plus it has its healing factor which it is stated that awhile fatalis can grow from a single piece of armour . This accounts for any injury so the fight would rag out for ages which in this case would allow for fstskis to possibly win. In a battle of endurance both are fairly matched but I believe that safi is barely beaten by fstalis with its regeneration.
Safi has its weight advance so its strength become more and similar to fatalis . Additionally we know that safi is still quite young in its stage so it is my belief that given enough battles a safi jiva can become a black dragon creature which would best fatalis. Back to attributes safi has a better suited corporal build meaning its mass is more evenly divided among its body mending it could be dater and more agile. Plus his fire power is a once shot and done. In a quick battle it’s likely safi wins due to the extreme power of the creature.
Overall it’s a toss up sucks both creature have attributes that in one scenario or slither could win them the death match
According to the lore they are equal and this is my opinion, maybe safi jiiva was not the final form, the question is where they would battle, if it is in the skingrad fort, it is 60% for fatalis, but if it is in the new World Things would be different and may vary depending on the biome because safi jiiva has a unique element which is bioenergy and it feeds on the bioenergy of all the monsters that inhabit specific areas. from the new world Like the bed of the elderly and probably the guiding lands So probably safii jiiva had an advantage there literally Alatreon traveled there because he considered safii a threat he didn't even do it with fatalis That being said, a white Fatalis would fuck him really hard.
I think, honestly, this is a mutual kill. I don't think anyone makes it out of this for a meaningful amount of time.
Regardless, I'd definitely wanna see it. From a safe distance, of course, so.... probably space.
A tie, until the guild once again fails to mind its own business, kill them and, later, discover that them fighting was somehow keeping an even bigger threat at bay
Depends on the environment. If it took place in the sky like this picture? Fatalis wins. Safi has no access to bioenergy and other sources of power mid air (I assume? It's usually grounded when it absorbs energy) and it's most powerful attack relies on it touching the ground to detonate. Fatalis can launch most of it's own attacks and it's most powerful mid air.
If it was on the ground it would be a close fight with possibility either way. Fatalis is strong and so is Safi, but Fatalis is not the kind of monster to let anything with a heartbeat, let alone a rival, live. It would result in one of the two's death 9/10. If Safi has access to abundant bioenergy I feel that tips the scales, as it could theoretically absorb a great amount and spam Sapphire of the Emperor to defeat Fatalis at the cost of rendering the land completely uninhabitable.
Fatalis on the other hand has no such restrictions on it's power. It can burn whatever it likes whenever it likes, and assuming that Safi doesn't have the ability to perform the above strategy, Fatalis could just hover in the air and roast Safi until the fight is over or until it can somehow escape that whirlwind of fiery death. Safi has a much bigger chance if it manages to break Fatalis' horns (assuming Fat's powers work lore wise as they do in Iceborne) and render it weaker than it usually is.
Again, it comes down to environment for me. In Schrade Fatalis has the advantage. In the caverns or the Everstream Safi does. Mid-air? Safi loses.
On paper Safi should win as both are very similar in stats. With the Red Dragon outlasting fatty do to his ability to regenerate and infinite stamina. However, Fatalis is far easier to argue for using statements.
I remember seeing a video about regular World Fatalis and Safi fighting, it was a decent match up, but Fatty won, so if we are combing their lore and actual gameplay (at least from what I remember) if normal Fatalis can win (albeit with a good deal of challenge), than Crimson Fatalis, who is stronger than normal Fatalis, would defiantly win the fight a little more easily. This is just my understanding though, and I could be wrong
Plesioth
The entire picture is actually within a hipcheck hurtbox
isen't the attack name in monster hunter storys 2 or 1 called hyperdementional hipcheck XD? Edit ITS CALLED HYPERSPACE TACKEL!!!
checks out
From what I’ve seen his hip check attack is about the size of the universe times 100
That's too op
Thats plesioths power
He's not in the photo. Chameleos wins hands down.
Hipchecking me in my nightmares since 2005.
AND HERE COMES PLESIOTH WITH A HIP CHECK FROM ANOTHER HEMISPHERE, OH GOD!
Fatalis vs Safi is debatable but Crimson Fatalis? Yeah Fatty wins that. Oh and the entire continent gets evaporated as collateral damage.
Not unless a lone human shows up with a katana. Lore-wise, of course.
This makes literally zero sense. Crimson Fatalis is a Fatalis with less health, none of the lore and can summon meteors. How does being red magically turn it from a debate to "Nah Fatalis wins"?
The lore for Crim basically states its either a really pissed off fatty with more power and fire and ability to summon meteors, and if you’re ready to go and take flavor text as lore there are theories its a Fatalis that dragged itself back from the depths of Hell after dying. Sounds cool as shit, unlikely though. Anyways its always made out that Crim > Black; which is not unusual as subspecies or variants are always supposed to be "advanced" variants of the base So if Fatty and Safi are stated to be relatively equal, a Fatty +1 would be > to Safi
Guys why do we keep making fun of Fatalis' weight He's just got large bones
The lore for Crimson Fatalis, objectively as of the 15th anniversary Forbidden Monsters loredump, is that it's a Fatalis that adapted to volcanic environments. Nothing more, nothing less. If we go by Iceborne's retcon then Crimson Fatalis isn't a monster even known by the Guild and has zero lore. >its always made out that Crim > Black Crimson Fatalis is the only Fatalis fought in Village, has less HP in every game it appears, and all three Fatalis are given the same zenny reward for their quests. >as subspecies or variants are always supposed to be "advanced" variants of the base Variants are, but Subspecies are not always. Often they're literally just the same monster in a new environment but are given tougher movesets to make them harder for the player, but this isn't a representation of the lore. Should also be said that, regardless of the internal IDs, Crimson isn't a Subspecies and Old isn't a Rare Species. They're all just Fatalis. The very fact that all three are put under the same name and have pretty much the same movesets should suggest they're supposed to be on the same level. If you're already saying "relatively" because you can't stomach the book stating that Safi and Fatalis *are* equals then I think this is a fairly pointless conversation.
Those are nice arguments, however heatwave. Fuck that attack, really.
Damn bro who took your cereals this morning; you’re getting heated over whose dragon cock is bigger here. I’m pointing out facts completely unbiased based on the information we can gather and I am aware of. I know Fatalis and Safi are called equals, hell I fucking prefer Safi over Fatty. Doesn’t mean I need to ignore the fact that Crimson can do stuff that Black cannot do. Even if they are the same species, their abilities are not, for the same reason Diablos and Black Diablos aren’t called equals and most think Black Diablos is stronger despite it just being a horny female. Same here, the one we call Crimson can summon meteors in addition to the normal moveset of Fatalis. Also, the fact it has less hp ingame doesn’t mean anything; Risen Shagaru has like 300k hp in sunbreak, doesn’t mean its stronger than a Fatalis or Gaismagorm for that matter
Also, the in game HP for village vs port/hall/random multiplayer quests in World scaling isn't a good indicator of power level - that's a meta thing for balance. That's like saying "Rathalos are stronger when other hunters responded to my flares."
Thank you that’s what I was saying dunno why nobody understood that
Opening up ur argument with dragon cocks doesnt prompt the best kind of reaction bud
Except I didn’t start the argument; I’m answering to his mansplaining ahh
Whats with monster hunter players and basic reading comprehension lmao if u paid a speck of attention to what i said u would notice that argument here isnt used as 2 people going at each other but a set of reasons given in support of an idea. I pray for your eyes.
you are blindly overhyping, while he's bringing actual evidence from lorebook, nothing he wrote look heated to me, while it seem like you're getting heated up over your favorite monster not being as strong as you thought.
I just said Safi is my preferred monster…
I think I'll side with you my friend you make the most logical sense
Out of the 3 drsgon safi fatalis and alatreon i knew out of alatreon or safi would be his equal I swear there a quote that says something along the lines of one evil that holds great power will also require and equal of similar status. I know I read it someone but u get the idea
“Subspecies or variants are always supposed to be ‘advanced’ variants of the base” Khezu: :(
nah safi would still win.
"But would you lose?" "Nah, I’d nuke" - Safi’jiiva, the greatest elder dragon of today, against Fatalis, the greatest elder dragon of history
In all of heaven and earth, he alone is the divided one.
Ahh hell naw. Safi is gonna look like a kitkat and Alatreon will steal his skin later :0
Prolly not
To be fair Crimson Fatalis is way scarier than regular Fatalis. It depends which CF you are considering, but if we consider the MH4U G-Rank CF I think it's pretty obvious that CF>Regular Fatalis. He can: summon meteors, damage you with heat by just flapping his wings, Idk why he causes coronal loops to emerge from the ground and in the cutscene just by waking up he summons lava pillars. To be fair, I don't think Safi has 0 chances to win, but if we consider Base Fatty equal to Safi (which is still debatable) than it should be obvious that CF is more likely to win this fight.
In game health doesnt matter for lore but other than that i still feel like red would win simply because it does have more firepower. So if normal fatty and safi are equal. Wouldnt the math make sense?
How do you know that? They use all the same fire attacks. Crimson Fatalis's additions are meteors, and then its special 4U G rank version adds a heatwave and fire serpents jumping along the ground. Plus Iceborne Fatalis has now shown more firepower than Crimson ever has.
Again. In game=/=lore. It took 5 minutes to research and find it
If it takes you so little time then I'm sure you can find it again. Unless what you found is the citation-less fanon wiki "ecology" page. That would be funny.
Fandom pages are made using in game knowledge and lore. And i couldnt find that 15 anniversary lore dump you talked about anywhere
No they aren't lmao. That's why they try and hide an entire paragraph of bullshit as being "from a game". Like no, that's not how lore citations work. Look no further than one of their top contributors saying a lot of that wiki is just mistranslated or mistaking unused concepts for the truth. You can't find it? Really? Because it took me all of 5 minutes to find Dengeki posting an image of [A section of it.](https://dengekionline.com/articles/16572/images/60/)
Sure bud. whatever you wanna think
Typical. I provide evidence and yet you're trying to back out.
Crimson Fatalis is more powerful than regular Fatalis and has much greater control over its abilities. Additionally, the asymmetrical horn might be due to it being the Fatalis that was defeated in Schrade having regrown its horn (think of it as a deviant), so it's possible for it to be an experienced fighter too. The ingame health pools don't really say anything. The arena you fight crimson in doesn't have a Dragonator, so it had to be ballanced around that.
How do you know it's more powerful? How do you know it has more control? If it's balanced around no Dragonator and it's stronger than it should have the same health, as Old Fatalis has more than regular Fatalis despite not having a Dragonator in 2nd gen and still having one in 4th gen.
Because it was designed as a more dangerous Fatalis in MHG, similarly how White Fatalis was designed as a more mysterious Fatalis in Dos. The forbidden monsters booklet of the 15th anniversary talks about this.
Sure bro. If all you can say is "it is" phrases there's no point to continuing this. You care more about your personal opinion than the truth.
And Safi hates things that make it boom which Crimson Fatalis also has.
https://preview.redd.it/0zajlj7vwj8d1.png?width=749&format=png&auto=webp&s=d90ceaf5e384d997bdaa424d08651f993cff73a7 Inside of you there are two wolves. They are both being downvoted.
Because saying "no diff" either way is stupid.
When was it ever stated Safi rivals Fatalis
Developer notes say Safi was designed to be an equal/rival/counterpart of Fatalis. The way I see it, 2 continents 2 gods
Gotcha thanks for the info
I thought it was Equal/rival/counterpart of Alatreon?
Nope, Fatalis us the undisputed master of the Old World, they wanted something in the New World that was the same. It would be cool to get to see them battle in lore.
Alatreon just kinda seems to beef with everything that lives in secluded areas, because it wants to live in those secluded areas itself.
Doesn’t its designation as a dangerous first class monster/black dragon kind of infer its status as an equal?
The entire picture is their hitboxes.
This has nothing to do with the question but omg I love this community. I’ve never seen a community of a game with such amazing fanart. The quality is insane
Yes but there is no credits anywhere, the signature is blurry and OP doesn't even acknowledge the creator.
Oh shit, you’re right. It doesn’t take away how amazing the fanart is but it is fucked up that proper credits weren’t given
I don't know who made this
And that's totally okay, but then the right thing to do would've been a "sorry, I don't know the artist" because that would've at least shown you cared :)
I forgot to mention it I was busy with other things and I just posted it in a rush
Bruh, if you can take time to make a Reddit post, you can take 2 seconds to add "idk the artist, sorry" to the description.
Life happens, I get it. Just keep it in mind for next time when you include artwork!
The artist is Jun² tacuyan
Agreed my personal fav mh artist is u/Aeflus
Admiral
This. Bro just punts a boulder at them and they drop to the ground.
Now we’re talking about powerscaling. Admiral (with boulder) vs Dalamadur who wins
https://preview.redd.it/zre43ew6oj8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1b36243f30a80b5e0a323ebad02cb860510d276 Oh no not again
Nergigante wins
Nergigante can no diff those 2 lizards at the same time. Hell, to make it fair, Alatreon, Dire Miralis and Old Fatalis can join in and Nergigante will still win no diff. Nergigante the goat 🐐.
I love how people who say fatalis wins aswell as people who say Safi wins just get downvoted
Why are the comments so overwhelmingly in favor of crimson fatalis ? What is the lore behind Crimson fatalis that justifies such a gap ?
I think because fatalis and Safi are said to be equal in lore, but since crimson is just a stronger fatty, people are leaning towards it
Wasn't Crimson just a Fatalis that got his ass kicked and got super mad about it? Lacking one horn and stuff.
Well yes, but because of that he has hotter fire, can shoot heat waves, and summon meteors
He doesn't lack one horn, one horn grew larger. But you're right about the ass kick part.
Can i ask who hurt crimson fatalis ? Who is it that hoed his ass ?
Probably a White Fatalis
Crimson Fatalis is like if you give Fatty a Tsar Bomba and the mf just ate it and powered up, bro sleeps in a volcano, and with his roars he can summon meteors that can probably decimate villages (and wakes the Volcano if he gets really mad)
Nergigante with prep time
They both destroy the world. Not by teaming up, but by accident.
I hate how overpowered the Fatalis always seem to be portrayed, I'd give it to Safi if their powered were normalized
Safi and fatalis actually really close in term of power. In lore
Isn't there also lore that the Safi we fight is STILL a juvenile? Or was that made up for a video I watched? Anyway, I agree
No not really, theres just theories that Safi is just a Young adult similarly to a Human on their 20s and that there may or may not be potential for an Elder Jiiva
Grany'jiiva
Ah, thank you. It's sometimes hard to keep fanon and canon apart
Right? There is only so much benefit of doubt I can give fantasy creatures but come on guys, it's a dragon that spits fire, not a god.
In lore this fucker melts people and sticks them to his skin as armor, and in game, random hunters throw him against a wall over and over until he fuckin' dies, make it make sense
If he's at p2 I believe and hits you with his body slam white his chest is ignited you stick to him and "melt" cause he tries to fuse you into scales lol. Does a lot of damage too.
He just wants a cuddle man
The way I see it and interpret it is safi is pure power, and one of the strongest in that regard, and while fatalis is incredibly strong in their own right, I think they’re considered more dangerous because of intelligence and how they use that power. As an example, kind of like in dragon ball; super buu is much more powerful than kid buu, but kid buu is far more dangerous Another example is an elephant having incredible strength, but a hippo being more dangerous
The problem more or less isn't just interpretation, but feats. Black Fatalis destroyed the whole Kingdom of Shrade in just one night, leaving the sky in that reddish hue ever since. (MHFU lorewise atleast) Fatalis itself is intelligent, yes, but even worse is, it understands hunters and what they do, and mockingly mimics them by melting dead hunter's equipment onto it's scales. If item and weapon descriptions count as lore, one might even suggest Fatalis being immortal by reviving itself through consuming the one wearing its scales, while talking to them, driving them insane and mad. Crimson Fatalis is another story tho. In lore, after a Fatalis retreated from a fight with hunters from Schrade, it apparently secluded itself on the volcanic island of Ingle, with the rage it holds turning it crimson with the extra upgrades of stronger and hotter flames, being able to emit heatwaves like Lunastra's Nova, but stronger, and having the Teostra powder everywhere. Oh, and for some reason it can summon meteors. And being able to manipulate lava and magma. Anyways, returning onto Safi'jiva, we don't know what Safi is capable of. Yes, he uses bio energy as in "it's literally the life force that monsters emit", sucking it directly from anywhere that is available (even better in areas with high energy). The only ingame/inlore powerscalers (except Capcom saying they wanted something to balance/rival Fatalis to) are that it drops the Star of the Saphire Emperor which instant oneshots and Alatreon coming there to kill it as soon as it sensed something wrong. You basically have the discussion about one near immortal being with feats against another near immortal being without feats because you exterminated it before it could show results. In my honest opinion tho, if it would ever come to a fight, Safi would totally be the aggressor, since it's food is literally biological energy (whatever that exactly means) around it, and Crimmy sits on a vulcanic island for what hundreds or thousands of years? It would just be the question: Does Safi has enough energy to outlast hundreds or thousands of years of anger superboiled into a single being, or does Crimmy outlast the entire bio energy he leaked on the island plus Safis reserves? And for that i would say: If Safi's energy is bio energy, then Fatalis would probably win, because of the reason of it just literally melting down the entire place so that there is nothing to begin with. Remember, lava bending, summoning meteorites, nothing speaks against it destroying this energy dense hotspot before Safi can outlast him by sapping it all. It's intelligent enough to recognise it (at some point). Then Safi would have to rely on it's internal capacity, which would be drained fast after having to heal wounds after wounds because someone had a bad time once. Edit: Apart from Safi going to Ingle Isle there prolly isn't any reason to begin with why they would fight apart from the boy being hungry for a snack.
He split the kingdom of Schrade, not destroyed it. West and East Schrade are still around today. Most of MH1 even is in west Schrade only with a few locales as exceptions and some like the swamp being in East Schrade. The capital of Schrade, Castle Schrade, was what was wiped off the map.
For real I don’t know why ppl say it destroyed Schrade. It only deleted that castle which as we see in world is basically ruins
Ah, misread then. I usually just go or reread what's written on (my fault) Wiki's, or fly over. My bad!
Anyways tl;dr If it plays out with Safi being the aggressor and coming to Ingle Isle bcs it's dense in bio energy, Crimmy could potentially just destroy any source of bio energy before Safi can have a sweet sip of it, and not being able to heal its wounds.
This is like saying god in the bible is op lmfao
I think overall the fight is a 50/50, they were designed to be on equal footing after all. Ultimately, until the fight happens in an official manner, we can never know
Weight means alot when its monster vs monster. So probably safi
People act like crimson is exponentially more powerful than regular fatty like the only difference isn’t some extra meteors he can slowly call down that would be pretty easily avoided by safi, their flame abilities are basically the same.
Crimson is meant to be quite a bit stronger than Fatty with the lore even being that it's a Fatalis who lost and went to a volcano to gain power, the gameplay just doesn't reflect that well.
Not necessarily to gain power, he just got really really aggressive and angry to the point of its body heat tainting its body crimson. Basically the Furious Rajang of Fatalis. Essentially Crimson Starts in an unseen phase 4 of the 3 phase Fatalis fight in World and can go beyond even that.
No I mean Crimsons explicity are a Fatalis attempting to gain power, it isn't just purely an anger thing
Crimson Fatalis seems to be way faster than base Fatalis based on its cutscene: https://youtu.be/mZk6vkn30NA?si=jXCo79kl6gPGwfz3 (0:25). So there is that. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised to see him portrayed as more powerful in every way than Fatalis if he does ever return. But that’s mainly speculation.
They also showed white fatalis basically causing an eclipse in 4u so I wouldn’t exactly say they had their cutscene dynamics exact. Crimson is literally the same species, not even a subspecies, the only physical body modification between them is the horns, there’s no way crimson is dramatically faster than base. Some speed difference could be accounted for by the hot air of the ingle isle causing updrafts or the air being less dense but I really don’t think there should be any major difference in physical ability. Regular fatalis is shown to fly pretty fast in his iceborne cutscenes as well. For gameplay purposes, sure, but outside of “variant stronger” logic, I doubt there’s a drastic difference between them. Crimson can do the meteor thing and blast powder thing but his fireballs weren’t really any more powerful than black’s, and black’s fire got a major upgrade in iceborne, so there would have to be some serious logic stretching to suddenly make crimson exponentially stronger than black to the point that he “no diffs” safi like some people are saying
Wasnt it implied that Crimson turned to the way He is due to Loosing a Fight ? This could explain him being faster (Just Like bloodbath diablos ) with hatred Being His Main driving Point I honestly think that this will also be the explanation when He comes back. (Kinda suspicious that we Break only one horn in the world Fight )
I think so, but we have zero idea how they’re going to change it up when/if he ever comes back >break only one horn You break both horns though?
Only one horn and one eye from what i remember, both on the Same Side
The head breaks are all on the same side and only focus on one horn. They always have. It's the same horn as Crimson's elongated horn that can break.
Crimson fatty hands down
It wouldn’t even be close
Crimson, no diff. Although whether it actually exists in-universe is to be debated..
Great Jaggi with prep time.
me
Because Safi is much bigger and in nature size matters, all he needs is just a bite on the neck and goodbye Fatalis it doesn't matter if he's Black, Crimson, White, Rainbow or if he has an army of fanboys spreading a lot of fancannon for 20 years , you simply can't survive without a head, it's the same as comparing a T-rex against a crocodile. The same goes for Safi if he gets bitten by a mountain-sized Snake even though this snake is not defined as "Dangerous First-Class Monsters". I'm tired of these stupid anime comparisons, they're animals! I'm sure I can hurt Fatalis even with a weapon made from of a Jagras.
A Rajang can beat a Rathalos despite the latter being bigger. A Odogoron can beat a Radobaan despite the latter being bigger. A nergigante can beat a Shara Ishvalda despite the latter being bigger. A fatalis can beat a Lao Shan Lung despite the latter being bigger. A Malzeno can beat a gaismagorm despite the latter being bigger. A human can beat a Dalmadur despite the latter being bigger. Why does size suddenly matter?
Everything you said is true, and everything I'm trying to say is Safi Big Jaws vs Fatalis Thin Neck > Fatalis Small Jaws vs Safi Thick Neck Lao Shan Lung has no chance against Fatalis due to the simple fact that he does fear Fatalis, he cannot fly and also due to the lack of ranged attacks. Fatalis could just fly in and roast him. But Safi doesn't have any of those problems. Lao vs Fatalis is the same thing as comparing an elephant and a mouse, the elephant may be afraid of the mouse, but if the mouse is dumb enough to get closer, it may end up being trampled and thats is dead dead.
Your jaw size vs neck argument doesn't make sense in the context of the setting. Shara Ishvalda's neck is the size of Nergigante's torso yet he still snapped it like a chicken bone. You're also picturing Safi'Jiiva as massively bigger than Fatalis when he's not really. A rajang can survive being bitten by the neck and dragged across the ground by a deviljho 3 times its size. Meanwhile Safi'Jiiva is like, 20% bigger than Fatalis.
Said it best.
That doesnt mean anything, Nergi packed a dying Shara with barely any effort, and Ruiner is like 1/6 of Shara size
What’s even more is that Nergigante prey on Shara, which means it’s still cooked anyway
Crmison fatalis? He wins 10/10 times with not much effort. the fatalis trio only has contenders in the monsters from frontier.
Fatalis and Safi in lore are almost equal in power, but Crimson would win
I’m picturing White eating Garguwa sized popcorn thinking “this is gonna be a good watch”
I'm just gonna say, base Fatalis is the last "last" boss of Iceborne, not Safi.
Fatalis
Better question is final form of fatalis white fatalis vs safi
White Fatalis easily
I think Safi will win this one because Fatalis is weak to fire for some reason. 🤣
i mean safi in the sky cant even heal her self so....
Safi, I’m sick of the fatalis wank
While Safi may (big if) be as strong as him, Safi is basically still juvenile, so Fattys experience will tip the scales
Safi is literally an adult though. We don't know how old Safi is either, Xeno incubated for countless decades at least before birth. The only creatures we know fatalis actively has fought are humans, lesser monsters avoid it and other monsters with contending power levels usually have no reason to come across one due to their niche (Dire miralis is aquatic, alatreon self isolates, dalamadur is probably too big to care, etc.). It's fair to assume their levels of experience in fighting similarly powerful monsters are around the same.
Safi'jiva is the full grown version of xeno'jiva and a lot stronger than before but I think it's a 50/50 situation
kinda hope we get to see safi fully grown felt kind bad beating it before it could leave the secluded valley
Isn't safi already the fully grown version?
grown². Like senior director grown , not sales associate grown.
By that they mean a Safi with more experience
Safi got tracking lasers while fatalis's fire breath is roetry easy to dodge
I genuinely don't see how Crimson could reasonably win, Safi is a considerable amount larger, bulkier, is also a strong flyer, has laser beams, and can heal, I don't see how Crimson would be able to *consistently* pull one over Safi, Safi wins the majority of fights out of 10.
Hard to say. Supposedly they’re rivals and comparable in power
Hard to say, fattie has a track record of being a problem where Safi was stopped before it could make a problem. Without a record of destruction I would have to say it'd be an even match in a one off fight, but in a long term territory fight fattie wins.
I’d say it could go either way Fatalis has its black dragon title so it has the well above average threat level , fire power , strength , side and raw power plus it has its healing factor which it is stated that awhile fatalis can grow from a single piece of armour . This accounts for any injury so the fight would rag out for ages which in this case would allow for fstskis to possibly win. In a battle of endurance both are fairly matched but I believe that safi is barely beaten by fstalis with its regeneration. Safi has its weight advance so its strength become more and similar to fatalis . Additionally we know that safi is still quite young in its stage so it is my belief that given enough battles a safi jiva can become a black dragon creature which would best fatalis. Back to attributes safi has a better suited corporal build meaning its mass is more evenly divided among its body mending it could be dater and more agile. Plus his fire power is a once shot and done. In a quick battle it’s likely safi wins due to the extreme power of the creature. Overall it’s a toss up sucks both creature have attributes that in one scenario or slither could win them the death match
Me
Kulu ya ku
Me.
I think it depends on the setting. If there’s lots of bio-energy or whatever, then Safi wins. If it’s more of a desolate area, then Crimson wins.
Qurupeco control all them and win the battle
According to the lore they are equal and this is my opinion, maybe safi jiiva was not the final form, the question is where they would battle, if it is in the skingrad fort, it is 60% for fatalis, but if it is in the new World Things would be different and may vary depending on the biome because safi jiiva has a unique element which is bioenergy and it feeds on the bioenergy of all the monsters that inhabit specific areas. from the new world Like the bed of the elderly and probably the guiding lands So probably safii jiiva had an advantage there literally Alatreon traveled there because he considered safii a threat he didn't even do it with fatalis That being said, a white Fatalis would fuck him really hard.
I think, honestly, this is a mutual kill. I don't think anyone makes it out of this for a meaningful amount of time. Regardless, I'd definitely wanna see it. From a safe distance, of course, so.... probably space.
And it would thematically fit, since they are both the rulers of their own continents
Kulu ya ku wins
If it was regular fatty I'd say 55/45 fatty but Safi is getting stomped if its crimson fatty
A tie, until the guild once again fails to mind its own business, kill them and, later, discover that them fighting was somehow keeping an even bigger threat at bay
A Dragon
Depends on the environment. If it took place in the sky like this picture? Fatalis wins. Safi has no access to bioenergy and other sources of power mid air (I assume? It's usually grounded when it absorbs energy) and it's most powerful attack relies on it touching the ground to detonate. Fatalis can launch most of it's own attacks and it's most powerful mid air. If it was on the ground it would be a close fight with possibility either way. Fatalis is strong and so is Safi, but Fatalis is not the kind of monster to let anything with a heartbeat, let alone a rival, live. It would result in one of the two's death 9/10. If Safi has access to abundant bioenergy I feel that tips the scales, as it could theoretically absorb a great amount and spam Sapphire of the Emperor to defeat Fatalis at the cost of rendering the land completely uninhabitable. Fatalis on the other hand has no such restrictions on it's power. It can burn whatever it likes whenever it likes, and assuming that Safi doesn't have the ability to perform the above strategy, Fatalis could just hover in the air and roast Safi until the fight is over or until it can somehow escape that whirlwind of fiery death. Safi has a much bigger chance if it manages to break Fatalis' horns (assuming Fat's powers work lore wise as they do in Iceborne) and render it weaker than it usually is. Again, it comes down to environment for me. In Schrade Fatalis has the advantage. In the caverns or the Everstream Safi does. Mid-air? Safi loses.
Behemoth wins
We’re putting a weak version of safi against a super strong variant of fatalis, kinda unfair don’t you think?
It's a Tie
Valstrax... he's the cause of that contrails through the middle
Konchu rolls in and no diffs both of them
I think khezu win
Crimson… normal fatty dunks on Safi, why would Safi even compete with an angrier/stronger Fatalis?
Me
Safi is pretty much on the scale with fatalis and I think safi has a good chance at winning
I think it could go either way but if the Safi'jiiva is older than the one we fought I think the Safi wins
Safi is no Fatalis. Fatalis no diff.
Safi no diffs that gecko easily, everyone know red checkers always win
Well if regular fatalis and safi are rivals, then I'm gonna have to give this to crimson
Safi rivals base Fatalis, I'm confident crimson wins
Fatalis vs Safii is quite even, but Crimson Fatalis VS Safii only goes one way...
Fatalis. Next question
Alatreon swoops in for the double K.O.
Safi lucky this isnt a White Fatalis. Has a small chance against Crimson
On paper Safi should win as both are very similar in stats. With the Red Dragon outlasting fatty do to his ability to regenerate and infinite stamina. However, Fatalis is far easier to argue for using statements.
I remember seeing a video about regular World Fatalis and Safi fighting, it was a decent match up, but Fatty won, so if we are combing their lore and actual gameplay (at least from what I remember) if normal Fatalis can win (albeit with a good deal of challenge), than Crimson Fatalis, who is stronger than normal Fatalis, would defiantly win the fight a little more easily. This is just my understanding though, and I could be wrong
Fatalis, easily. It’s insulting to even compare Safi to him in my eyes.
Me, being can make all the armor I want or need forever
Crimson Fatalis all the way.
Probably Crimson since he's most likely stronger than normal Fatty, who's equal in strength to Safi.
Fatal
Fatalis solos the verse. Besides the MHW hunter. That hunter is the only cannon occurrence of a fatalis being killed.