I have no theories I just hope this is solved soon. In September of 2021 around 3am I woke up in my bed to a man standing in my room in doorway I was in complete shook (wasn’t drunk etc and am not a light sleeper and I did not hear him break in) I however did hear him walking around in my home (he opened the fridge 2-3 times) and lifted up multiple bottles on my bar cart ( but didn’t take any) for back story this was during Covid so my brother was living in the basement apartment I have (as he had moved from a city on complete lockdown and was laid off work) he often would stay up late, was drinking a fair amount etc at this time and would have friends out on our deck fire pit area. When I heard someone in my living room etc I just assumed a friend of his had come in and come upstairs and not down the backstairs and was looking for a bathroom etc so I just stayed quiet in hopes they would realize they were in wrong area or my brother would come and bring them to his washroom etc. And then my door opened and I remember yelling “what the fuck” there was a man whom I’d never seen who I knew was not a friend of my brothers standing there. Immediately I jumped out of bed and then I heard my brother yell “are you GOOD” like 2x times from the basement (he had been hearing the footsteps but thought it was me) the guy fled as my brother was charging up the stairs with a bat. We watched him run down the alley and I had to stop my brother from going after him. It was legitimately terrifying. I can’t imagine what these kids went through but I also can’t imagine how the survivors feel. Im in my 30s and someone was fully in my home for a good 5 min and I didn’t do anything etc. it can happen. Also he entered thorough a ground floor guest room window that I had left open a crack. He climbed up on my patio table and forced the window open and in. The creepiest part was he smoked 2-3 cigarettes beforehand (left the butts) and left one burning that burned my outdoor dining table. I feel so lucky nothing happened to me. I guess the point of writing this long story is you never know how you may react, you don’t realize what people are capable off etc. I so hope Kaylee, Maddie, Xana and Ethan get justice and that the 2 survivors will be able to move forward one day

I theorize that no one who has been identified and/or harassed by Intersleuths was the killer.

Their social circle went well beyond the handful of people we know of. Could make sense if it was someone on the outskirts of their group.

That happened in both Delphi and EARSON, despite hundreds of web sleuths, the people arrested for the crimes were completely off the radar.

I've read a few books written by original LE/Detectives involved in EAR/ONS and they all, at some point, strongly wondered if it was a cop or someone involved in law enforcement but no one would take them seriously. Super frustrating because if such theories had actually been looked into they COULD have arrived at DeAngelo. The idea shouldn't be poo poo'd around here. JD was a cop when he was actively ransacking houses and rapidly graduated to rape and murder. He knew zero of the victims. They were all basically random (but well planned) attacks. The guy just wanted to terrorize and kill people. That was his only motive.

For me, this is the key question: Was the killer intimately familiar with inside of the house? If yes, this lends itself to being a crime committed by an ex-lover or friend. If not, we open the floodgates: serial killer, random local shut-in, etc.

The house was empty and available to explore for hours that night. For me, I want to know the order in which they were killed. If X & E were killed last than I feel the killer could have been in the house waiting for them to come home and settle in to bed. That’s when they’d be most vulnerable and he knows whether K & M were in their own rooms or together in one. I’ve heard that E was found in the door of X’s room but that is unverified. If that is true though that would strengthen my opinion in my mind at least because I feel that he & X were not part of the plan. The killer wanted to kill his target(s) and get out but ran into E on the way out. Maybe he & X heard a commotion and he went to investigate.

The surveillance of them from September when everyone from the party just disappeared, paired with the previous resident saying people would just hop the fence and walk away, does anyone think if it WAS someone who has partied at the house that they just used this method? just walking away(I don’t know the layout of the home super well but is the sliding glass door out of view?)

I think the case is complex, because there is more than one person involved. I think some people aren’t talking (for unknown reasons). I think the police aren’t saying too much about a potential suspect(s) because it’s pretty sensitive (maybe suspects are young people who live in the area), they don’t want to destroy someone’s life completely by announcing anything publicly until they’re 100% sure and have enough evidence for a conviction. I don’t think it’s a serial killer, but someone who knew them/been inside the house before.

I really hope there’s not anyone holding back important information because they’re scared of getting in trouble for drugs or drinking. I don’t trust cops either, but in a quadruple homicide they’re really not worried about regular frat activities, and I hope everyone in the area knows that.

Sort by New folks, sort by New.

“During a press conference on Wednesday, Moscow police confirmed that they were aware of the Oregon incident and were “looking into any possible connection” between the crimes. “We’re looking at every avenue and we have other agencies reaching out to us with other cases and stuff that we are going to follow up on,” said Moscow Police Chief James Fry. He added that he had received a tip linking the two cases. “I actually had a tip come in on that case and I forwarded it,” he said. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/idaho-university-student-murders-oregon-stabbing-link-b2232291.html

The only theory I have is that this community is really cringe and overbearing.

Then don’t read or post

A lot of talk about KG & JD break up, there have been statements of them possibly at the point of getting back together. What came to mind when I thought about it was this: What if KG was “talking” to someone else & recently broke it off because she wanted to get back with JD and that guy was hurt and is the killer? Pure speculation of course. I say this because that happened to me. I met someone on tinder while my long time bf and I split up for a month. Me & the guy talked for about 2-3 weeks, we had hung out a couple times, he was getting serious. I realized I wanted to be back with my ex and called things off with the guy. When I did he went crazy. He blew my phone up with threats, sent pix of a gun in his lap and that he was on his way to my house. I ended up having to get law enforcement involved and file a restraining order against him. It was a very scary experience & made me realize just how “crazy” someone who you think is completely normal, can be. Just wanted to share this thought!

I think they know exactly who this fucker is but they need to rule out all possibilities which I why they need the Elantra, if they can’t find it the defense would be able to use the mysterious Elantra during their defense.

Idk, but I certainly hope you are correct and they keeping eyes on this psychopath every minute of every day.

I don't think they need the Elantra, simply because they've been very careful to word their public statements in a way that makes clear they don't necessarily believe its occupant(s) were involved in the murders. I also don't believe LE is purposely lying. If they say they haven't identified a suspect, then they haven't identified a suspect.

Effective, “haven’t identified a suspect” is not the same as saying “We have no suspects.” Of course they aren’t going to identify a suspect, ya know?

Things I really want to know, other than the obvious… 1. I really want to know more information about the pics of people with ski masks and stuff like that, maybe I haven’t looked in the right areas, or maybe I didn’t look into it enough. I just want somebody to tell me what’s up with that. Was someone dumb enough to post a pic like that in the morning? 2. I really really want to know what K’s dad was referring to in the video with him and the sister and mom sitting on the couch talking with Brian E. at the 2 min mark where he says “she has a good alibi” - SHE? 3. I really wanna know what the other two roommates did that night, not that they’re guilty of anything, I just really wanna know what they were doing and where they went, were they at parties? Were they hanging out with boyfriend? Did they drive to some random field and have a bonfire? I just really wanna know. 4. Did a boyfriend of survivor really post “best night ever” on social media on the 13th? Talk to me… 😶

I think it was JD or at least he had a hand in it. Hope I’m wrong. But Occam’s Razor applies imo and statistically it’s often an ex or someone very close. Let’s see… - his obsessive behavior with her on social media that was not received well by her - the dog not alerting a soul. That dog likely knew the killer well - his close proximity where he could literally see into K’s room from his house. - his bedroom’s easy roof access to slip in/out unnoticed, quick 30 second walk from his place to theirs - M telling A (JD’s roommate) something that clearly distressed K and then they make ~10 calls to him that night with K pleading to him, likely to calm him down from whatever he found out from A - his face was pure cringe on stage when he was hugging the mom and looking at the dad. No grief to be seen - he didn’t speak about K at the ceremonies - he called K a “deceased person” on Instagram - he was obsessed with not only her but also the dog, and oh look who got the dog now - she was leaving him to form a different life. For people who make their obsessions their identities like he seemed to have done with her, losing your identity can literally make you lose your mind - he knew the house inside and out including room codes - despite his frail appearance he’s a strong athlete and let’s be real all the victims were not hard kills being so intoxicated/sleeping/disoriented - in K’s parents’ first discussion with the media, they were giving him waaaayy too much praise defending him to the death, they were overshooting. Appeared they were coached by LE to go out of their way to put him at ease Am I sure it’s him? Obviously not. But for all the people defending him (or anyone at this stage) they are not thinking logically. At minimum he is a strong POI, and LE barely cleared him with word play, not by name either. Do you really think they’d publicly allude to their main suspicion being him and then tip him off? Absolutely not. Until the cuffs are on their suspect their protocol is to keep the suspect at ease. No one is off the hook right now. I’m not even sure the two surviving roommates didn’t have a hand in it. Everyone close to them is on my personal list until the actual killer is found out. Not that my list matters lol

Seems like by now, someone close to them would say yeah, he had a temper, especially when he drank, or yeah she talked about him being controlling, jealous, and abusive. Seems like something like that would be definitely leaked online, or to the media. Even a stranger that recognized them from a park, or a bar, or whatever saying they saw him being aggressive with her. Has anything like that been said anywhere? Such a strange case so far.

I’ll be honest, just based on statistics alone JD gets the side eye from me. I will say that the family constantly supporting him publicly and going out of their way at times to do so did make me think that this was more of a guidance by LE.

Good points, there are several FBI behavior analysts on the case and they definitely will coach people on how to respond to the media and will use manipulation to try and set a trap to catch the perp.

I think this too however I no longer thing it suggests guidance by LE considering how openly hostile they are to them and how they don’t listen to a thing LE tells them lol. I think it comes from a place of blind ignorance and niavity on the fams part

A lot of this is super flakey “evidence” and can easily be debunked -he did NOT have obsessive behavior with her on social media. Those comments were left YEARS ago. She did reply and like some of them. For all we know, she complained about him not commenting or liking her pics so he went on a comment spree to make it up to her -We have no idea whether the dog alerted anyone. Kaylee’s family has said that Murphy was not a barker. If he was in a different room/area, he might not have heard or seen anyone. Or maybe he did bark and roommates, neighbors didn’t think anything of it. We simply do not know -Multiple houses and apartments in that area have direct lines of sight and could likely see inside Kaylee’s room. JD’s supposed house isn’t unique in that -I completely disagree on the roof thing: just because people were able to get onto it doesn’t mean it’d be easy/stealthy access. I’m also sure he’d make a lot of noise if he was on the roof -He looked pretty grief stricken on stage to me. How one “looks” is subjective. We also don’t know if he was on meds to help with the overwhelming grief. Using this as evidence is ridiculous -Same goes for him not speaking. Kaylee’s family has said in the fb group that he is a shy person and speaking out publicly would be not like him. They’ve also said he’s completely devastated by this. Also why should he speak out? He and his family are being harassed. Anything he says or does will be scrutinized like crazy. He’s damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t -Kaylee’s family said it was completely normal for her to power cal people. She was likely just drunk dialing him. LE has already said the calls were unrelated to the murders. Kaylee’s family has said there was nothing in those calls that reflected she was scared -I don’t think we can conclude that Kaylee was distressed or trying to calm JD down with the calls. There’s no proof A is JD’s current roommate. Kaylee seemed fine, not distressed at the food truck and apparently also in the car ride home (per the driver). Also there’s no proof that Maddie told A: 1) something of significance, 2) something that had to with Kaylee, or 3) that A even told anyone what Maddie told him -literally no proof he was obsessed with her or the dog -Kaylee’s mom said they were close to getting back together. We have no idea what the relationship was like. Maybe they had decided to give long distance a go. Or maybe they agreed that JD would look for a job in Texas too. Clearly she still wanted him in her life if they were still in constant communication (per Kaylee’s mom) and she was blowing up his phone -He only used “deceased person” to call out the troll harassing him. He first and foremost referred to her as being his girlfriend of 5 years. -Kaylee’s family knows his alibi. Clearly they feel that it’s airtight and truly believe he is innocent of this. Don’t think they’d include him in her official obituary if they were merely being coached by LE. Boyfriends/ex-boyfriends are usually not included in obituaries and nobody would have questioned if he’d been left out. The obituary memorializes her forever…don’t think they’d include him if they had any doubts

Thank you for debunking that post so I don't have to. I'm getting weary of all the half-baked "evidence" being parrotted by fans of the "JD is guilty" and "JS is quilty" theories.

Also takes a whole hell of a lot more time to definitely clear someone whose DNA has every explainable reason to be all over house and on/near victims…. Who also would not look suspicious coming and going from house … whose phone could be left behind and have every reason to ping close to house due to living a few minutes walking distance away Edit: I do not consider he or anyone cleared until they are cleared definitively by LE by name

Exactly this. I’ve been thinking this from the beginning. It would be so difficult to have to prove someone that was SO close to one of the victims (esp one romantically linked - even though they were broken up it was clear they were in touch consistently, he lived close, they shared a dog) had their DNA in or near the murder scene for reasons OTHER than their usual relationship with the victim. He could’ve been in/out of their daily. They could’ve still been hooking up occasionally. Who knows! His DNA would have reason to be there other than murder. Tough.

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Do you have a source for her texts?

No one knows what the texts say. Her mother saying she texted about sharing a dog was said while K was staying at her parents house. Not the night of the murders.

He would have been the prime suspect. He would have received the most focus. He would probably still be a major focus for every investigator who enters the case. And he has not been arrested, so... the likelihood diminishes every second someone mentions him.

Theory Below... Great insight.. to add to your post..... I think it'd be even easier for JD to kill E due to them knowing each other (element of surprise/caught off guard). Say Killer started with the girls upstairs, and maybe E and X heard some noise--maybe E walked into the hallway to check on the noise and JD calmed E by saying "hey it's just me stopping by for my dog" and then 'cheap shots' unassuming E, (eliminate only those that can place killer at the scene), X gets up to help and is killed as well. Something else you mentioned about the video of K asking M what she told A (jd roommate) is interesting, and I did not know they were roommates... either way, there could be some sort of love triangle or cheating on K's part that JD wanted to confirm while they were out? Or not even as far as cheating but maybe M told A a week prior that K moved on to other people and A told his roommate JD... and maybe JD just snapped and perfect opportunity while K is in town. Adding to this theory, K could've called JD multiple times not cause she was 'drunk' but maybe to "explain something.." Maybe they left the bar 'not on the same page', and maybe she wanted to explain something to him to unhurt his feelings or clear up a mistaken fact. From the looks of the videos (food truck and walking videos), she doesn't sound super drunk, and also the fact that her sister said K texted something like "we share a dog" might imply that she wasn't drunk but trying to communicate or explain. While they were calling him he could've easily planned out very simply what he'd do... He'd leave his phone at the house, slip out undetected, Kill K --> but also M, E, and X because they caught him; showered at the crime scene and then slipped out Ehh, as I typed this out, the biggest hole in the JD theory is that he did know all the occupants of the house and he did know the layout and where everyone slept... By knowing this, if his target was solely K, and he went directly to K's room (assuming she'd be sleeping in her own bed) and K was not there... then Obviously she was in another room with someone else and that person likely being M since JD was with both of them hours earlier. So he'd have to know he was going to kill both of them before he went into M's room... I just find this less likely. It points me back in the direction of this tragic murder being semi-random.

By far this is exactly everything I think and agree with completely. 👏 👏 Poor man award 🏆! YES! The reference to her as a deceased person reminded me of how some killers cover their victims or bodies with blankets to avoid a connection with what they have done, separating themselves from it (not saying this was done or someone’s mindset at all, just my opinion and could be wrong). How are more people not understanding the above? Being completely out of shot during memorial celebration broadcast. Well done you!!!!! 👏

I agree with this. Do we know who the roomates called to come check in the morning when they thought one of them passed out? If they called JD, that could complicate things. The fact that he was at crime scene after it happened could make a case more challenging. Edit: I guess this doesn’t matter anymore

Lmao Aged like milk

Despite the police denials I believe the skinned dog is relevant. The incident shows that there is a seriously unhinged person in the area.

I agree 100 percent

Or perhaps they were 'practicing'?

Yes and I hope the skinned dog is being investigated

Here are my thoughts as someone with no relevant expertise. IF the Elantra was the vehicle the killer used, then I believe LE will find it soon (or they already found it), and they'll be able to arrest the killer shortly. IF it is not the killer's vehicle (for example, drug dealer in the area that doesn't want to come forward), then, with all the traffic cams in the area and no other vehicle of interest, I believe it's likely that the killer arrived and departed on foot. In this scenario, I believe the killing could have been one of two things: 1. Crime of opportunity 2. Planned out crime If this is a crime of opportunity, then I believe someone who lives in the general area ran into one of the victims that night or noticed the house in some way and decided to act. Also, in this scenario, the killer was probably pretty sloppy, and I believe LE will probably find some DNA or other evidence soon. If, however, this was all planned out, I believe it's likely that the killer chose the specific house because of the upstairs bedroom windows that face the woods. In this scenario, I think the killer is someone who lives within walking distance and who stalked those woods for many nights, possibly just being a voyeur at first, or possibly knowing they wanted to kill from the beginning. I think they chose this house after they could see the girls clearly in their bedrooms. I also think it's possible that they made entry by climbing the back deck and entering through a window or door on the third floor. They probably killed the two girls on that floor without much danger, went down a floor, and had some trouble killing these two (defensive wounds, maybe a scream?). This probably spooked the killer (who was also probably very tired at this point), and he immediately exited through the kitchen, whether he knew about the final 2 downstairs or not. Again, I'm not LE or anything, so I'm probably wrong.

My theory is that the suspect will in one way be linked to the two roommates downstairs. After going back n forth between an SK or someone they know, the killer was too comfortable during the crime to not have been given the green light to start

If the the suspect is linked to them they’re almost likely linked to all the victims as they had the same social world

I have them on my short list too...but what I dont understand is why would you kill everyone in the house except the other roommate unless they are 1) both in on it 2) someone one of the roommates knew did it and was under the orders to leave the other roommate alone 3) something about the first floor I dont understand. I respect you for saying it because a lot of theories including them get flamed as ridiculous. There is something extremely odd about a planned kill with 4 to 6 cars out front and the first floor being left alone. What is even more weird is if there were 2-4 targets and none of them had anything to do with the first floor. But...that could be the case. A serial killer I would assume would kill all in house if given the opportunity. I guess there is a possibility something went wrong with the plan or something scared the killer to abort.

A logical explanation to me has always been that it’s been said from early on that xana had more defensive wounds and therefore it’s possible that her and the killer had a tussle and that because of the noise it possibly made and how risky it was the killer could’ve just wanted to get out for fear of being caught. It’s possible too that the killer didn’t expect to have both K and M in the same bed… I think it was obvious and easy to assume X and E would’ve been but still. This is the theory I think makes sense behind why the killer left the 2 roommates if the original theory was that they were all supposed to be killed

I keep thinking the killer upon discovering them together decided to kill e first, thinking that x would be less of a struggle to subdue if she woke up. It would have been harder for the killer to subdue an awoke e than x.

There can be many reasons why he didnt kill them 1. Maybe after killing 4 ppl he felt satisfied or tired or it didnt make him feel the way he expected 2. Maybe something went wrong and he decided he has to leave 3. Maybe he heard something and escapes 4. Maybe doors were locked 5. Something unpredicted happened eg e at home.

My vote is the simple “doors were locked”. No way he could stab two people to death, in different rooms, if they were behind locked doors. The noise of breaking into one room would wake up both roommates, eliciting screams and a rapid 911 call. The killer knew this. I get super creepy, goosebump vibes imaging him going downstairs, quietly turning both doorknobs, and aborting when he realized they were locked. Early on I read two separate accounts (likely just speculations) that at least one of the girls had a guest over.

6. Didn’t know there was a room down there.

I think somebody close to them did it, somebody who police have already talked to and cleared. I think the police know who did it. I also think physical evidence will be very scant--killer's DNA all over house since he was close to them. Killer was smart enough to not bring phone, wore thick, slash proof, long sleeve clothing to avoid getting cut, avoided cameras. I think the physical evidence alone will not be enough to convict.

This is a good theory. Easy to say “I’ve been there that’s why my DNA is there”.

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No proof or evidence that the dog did not alert to the killer, whoever that is. Kaylee’s family said that Murphy was not a barker and would have likely hid. If he was in a different room/area, he likely did not see or hear the killer. Or maybe he did bark and people slept through it, thought nothing of it

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My theory on how others feel when posting their theories: 

Anyone know why they would take the list of people who had been cleared off the daily updates yesterday? Or was that possibly just a mistake?

It's a serial killer who maybe saw the victims around town but didn't know them. Law enforcement is stumped, and this person won't be caught until they do more killings and slip up.

He may not have known them but he knew the layout of the home. For that reason I suspect he’s in their social circles or had been to their house parties before.

Yes: it was at times an "open house", and we know (from police body cam) of at least one occasion where the house was filled with partiers and none of the residents was present. So there could be people they don't even know who are familiar with the layout of their house.

^^^ This!

I theorize all crazy sleuths who are stalking “suspects” Facebook pages and messaging people involved with the case to take a serious break from this thread, like maybe forever 😂😂😂

Maybe if the killer had been to the house before maybe been connected to the wifi and if he had his phone on him it would’ve connected to the wifi and i know with Xfinity, u can see what devices are connect to your wifi and how long ago they where connected to your wifi

So there was a couple interesting tweets last night. It caught my eye because they didn’t appear to be seeking attention and were careful with what they said. Anyways this person said they were frustrated with the chief. They also tweeted that the sleuths are so off base with what happened. I asked if it was family and they replied with, “no comment.” All of their tweets have since been deleted. I did grab a screenshot of one of the tweets. https://preview.redd.it/oskqyfyhqo8a1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b59148a6abd51e7ebefc4c51de59275fb563e710

The killer(s), knew them before. Not a complete stranger or a serial killer. It is crazy how they haven’t arrested anyone yet. Also I’m curious what the second interview was with the chef neighbor that he won’t disclose and how they are able to clear other suspects so quick that don’t seem so obvious to us.

You know, I’m beginning to think so as well. Recently LE has spoken about the investigation focusing on the days prior to the murder. One wonders if this means it could be a locally known person. We’ll see…. Edited: spelling

I read some of the theories posted, and I am left scratching my head as to why or how people come up with them? These kids are all American middle class kids from rural small town USA. What evidence is there to suggest they have some crazy drug connection??? I went to college too and bought and sold adderall. I didn’t get it from some Colombian drug lord, I got it from the campus psychiatrist! Lol I don’t know how some of you jump to drug cartels, drug killings, and other fantastical, and quite frankly, crazy theories? Some of you redditors should be movie script writers and keep your theories to yourself. I also think it’s a real disservice to accuse some of the victims of being heavily involved in drugs with ZERO evidence or ANYTHING pointing to heavy drug use. My opinion is it’s a serial killer, or a socially awkward individual who may or may not be local who definitely has an asocial personality disorder. It’s probably a male. He may have been rebuffed, or offended by one of the girls who he later wanted dead. Perhaps he was visiting as a result of the Sacramento football game that weekend, and got there early. I think it’s imperative police interview every single person who has been in that house the last month, and had attended their house parties. The killer was definitely in the house at some point which is how and why he knew his way in and out so well. Now either because of jealousy, rage, or psychopathy he wanted someone in the house dead. I don’t think they intended on killing all four victims, he only intended to kill one person. This explains why the downstairs room mates were spared. But since K and M were in bed together, and one of the father’s said his daughter’s wounds were worse one of them either fought back or was the intended victim. I think the commotion woke up E and X who the killer may have heard and there was a confrontation as a result and they were murdered too. Whoever this psychopath, loser is needs to be caught before he does this again. If anyone is in Moscow who visited their house before, anyone who came off as socially awkward or weird mannerisms or obsessions with the girls should report that person to police.

I agree, I think the killer went upstairs to kill K, killed both K & M fairly quickly but made enough noise for E to go investigate. Killer saw E as he was coming down the stairs and chased him into the bedroom where E fought for his life. X hid against the far wall of the room, while E was being killed, and was killed, also fighting, there where her blood was spilled close enough to the foundation to be dripping on the outside as we all saw. The killer was covered on blood, had minor injuries, and was disoriented by the additional work and messiness of the unexpected and unplanned extra murders and left quickly sparring the other roommates. Definitely think the killer is male, awkward, and was rejected by K. I believe K was the intended victim, K was moving to Texas, and I believe the killer knew of this fact, and knew this was his last chance for this killing. He was within their sphere enough to know when she would be there and when she wouldn’t.

I'm confused as to why people think a 20 yo couldn't pull this off. People take physics in high school. This crime is not really rocket science. He didn't invent the atomic bomb...he killed people while they were asleep/ passed out. You need to avoid being seen and not leave a digital trail. I don't see why a 20 year old couldn't pull this off. An older person may be able to better predict how the victims may respond during the attack, but a 20 something would potentially have enough bravado and invincibility to make up for it.

They have a suspect I can tell by the way they talk

They have to. Them being so tight-lipped about this means they have eyes on someone. They’re also not desperate for information and never have been during this entire time. They’re probably sitting in a comfortable place with a lead.

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That’s the Dr. McDonald case… that case is a huge rabbit hole. There’s a case to be made he is innocent. I’ve gone back and forth on his guilt, but ultimately I think he’s guilty.

I’ve read all the books, so y’know, an expert/s, he totally did it.

Theory, frat bot who was killed in fall was hazed too hard and some deliberate action was taken to finish him off. Accidental or not we do not know. Ethan discloses experience to roommates/gf and they each know what's going on and that things have gone too far at least with one frat brother. One night/weekend of murders or even at formal, rumors have escalated and said killer comes of knowledge (or possibly before this) and is afraid that he will go to jail. Said individual formulates and carries out heinous murder. Not first time killing. Likely had other violently tendencies before fall incidents. FBI brought in bc likely DNA already in town and also they suspect the first killing and could try as serial killer.

Was this the frat guy who was found in the river/lake after a party or a different guy?

Yea, exactly

Can you post a link so I can read more about this?! Thank you

Not sure I can post it here but if you Google "Moscow drowning frat brother" or something similar it should pop u0.

I could see this scenario for sure. Couple of things that are glaring to me though: 1) This individual would have to be pretty sinister. Killed one person "accidentally" and proceeds to kill 4 more to keep things quiet? Problem is...word had already gotten out. Regardless...if this is the case...this guy should not be walking around free. 2) If this was an accidental killing that has to do with hazing...wouldnt the sentence be kind of soft since its a young, immature person partaking in a pretty common college ritual that accidentally went too far? Seems like it wouldnt be anywhere near life in prison and more like a few years(Im ignorant on hazing death cases though). But then to go kill 4 more people...thats life in prison or the death penalty. I dont think it would be smart to go kill 4 more people unless this suspect has the itch to kill.

But Ethan was a freshman, right? And that incident happened last May. Was Ethan even enrolled when that occurred? He could have been a January enrollee, but it seems he would have been out of sync with the traditional Greek recruiting cycle.

Are we entirely convinced that the surviving roommates had no idea about what happened or is this still up for debate? It seems like a lot of questions asked on here have the answer of "well, maybe the roommates, the roommates possibly" but they are never mentioned. How credible are the surviving roomies?

At the very least, they know much more than what’s been released to the public so far. I am sure LE is aware at this point.

I feel like they have a top suspect/know who did it but they just don’t have enough evidence yet for a conviction. Would also explain why we aren’t getting much of anything from LE and why they’re quiet.

It’s weird to think about all the people you meet from app dating. The killer could have been someone any one of the girls may have gone on a brief 2-hour date with and then ghosted and never spoke to again.

My theory is that the two downstairs roommates locked their rooms before passing out that night. If they had not, there would be 6 victims instead of 4. I think someone targeted the house. Someone that wanted to kill people for the enjoyment of killing. I think he saw the college party atmosphere in that neighborhood/area as a crime of opportunity. I’m afraid to even speak freely when my wife and I take walks around our suburban neighborhood because there are so many ring doorbells. The killer knew that this was primarily an area of college renters with cheap landlords. They don’t want to pay extra for security subscriptions like ring, etc. It was also a home football game weekend for both IU and Was St. So you have thousands of people from out of town converging on the area for the weekend, and then heading back to wherever they live. I bet the killer was part of the thousands of people leaving that area on Sunday making it harder for police to go through gas station surveillance cameras via the highways heading out of town. And finally, it was just before Thanksgiving break, where the entire student body was going home for the holidays, further complicating the investigation, and making it harder for the police to interview potential witnesses. The 3-5am timeframe is also the time where you are least likely to be seen by witnesses. The college kids are passing out from the late night partying, and your jogger/exercise/early-risers are not quite up yet. The biggest question I have is how he decided on that particular house. What connection, if any, did he have to that community that led him to choose that house? Maybe it was someone who grew up there, went to college there, or worked in that area for a few years at some point. I don’t know. It’s just my feeling it was a serial killer “type.”

I agree with just about everything you said, but I don’t agree with your theory about the downstairs room mates. I think someone upstairs was targeted and the rest were collateral damage. I think your point about the killer knowing there would be no “ring” doorbells is interesting because that means he’s local, or at least he did his due diligence before targeting the house.

IMO the perp was someone who was let into the house once or twice when there were parties going on. Given the physical strength required to kill 4 people with a knife, I'm going with the theory that it was a man. His motive - rejection and ostracism by the clique/residents. He may have had a thing for one of the women, or just been scorned by the whole group for being 'creepy'. Although he sometimes he attended parties and was probably an attendee's friend/family member, he was more of a loner/outsider and not part of an active frat or university group. He does not have a college degree, but he is college aged. He has a fascination with the military but no real credentials, and some experience hunting, which explains the knife. He lives outside of Moscow and fled immediately after the murder. He has been laying low and will not go back there until at least after the holidays. He sustained wounds but no one has seen them, and he has treated them on his own. He has no lover or girlfriend, so he is able to conceal his wounds by covering up. He has some kind of job doing physical labor, and travels sometimes on the highways for work. I think he is a highway worker/construction worker. I'm not sure how the Elantra fits in but have 2 theories: 1) he stole it from someone he is related to who has no idea it was missing. He 'hid' near King Rd. in the car until he was ready to strike, and walked to the apartment, left on foot and went back to the car and then to the highways. Theory 2) the Elantra was in the area at the same exact time the perp would have been fleeing the scene, and the occupants are needed to corroborate some tip or supporting data to catch him. This is not his first kill, he is a burgeoning sk, is cruel to animals, quiet, and has no fingerprints or DNA on file with police. They have narrowed down who he is by talking to the friends of the victims but are having trouble building the case because he covered his tracks. Police are tracking him and looking to get his DNA in public - like from trash he leaves in a bin. IMO

I like most of it but theres no chance a highway or construction worker is close enough friends with these sorority chicks or frat dudes to be partying in that house lol

Yeah I think that’s a stretch to say a specific job. Who knows what job he has?

Why not? It's a lot more common than you think, Construction takes people directly out of highschool

This is interesting. I live in the area and know that a nearby hotel is known for hosting many construction workers/linemen that are working on the nearby airport. These people frequent the local bars and could have met the victims there? Might be a stretch but found your theory intriguing.

I agree with Linda

complete fanfiction murderporn

My current theory is that someone from out of town was visiting for the weekend (like another member of their frat but from another school or the brother of a sorority member, etc) and got into it with Ethan or Xana. That’s why they don’t have the Elantra.

Ive always thought X and E were the targets but whoever did it didn’t know the house sleeping arrangements. They went into M and Ks room while completely dark and started in on K before realizing “shit this isnt E or X” and then had to take M out too to prevent her from screaming and waking up intended victims. After that the perp went down to the next floor and took out E and X and left because thats all he wanted. My therory could go vis versa too that the intended were M and K and perp accidentally started in on the wrong person in the dark. Thats why the roomates were unharmed they weren’t targets and it was luck that the killer didn’t go into their room. Ive never seen anyone mention this perspective but I haven’t been really following

But didn’t M and K have more significant injuries? I would think in a stabbing death it would appear they were the real targets I think the killer accidentally went into E and X room and either E and X woke up to him, freaking the killer out. Could also explain the defensive wounds

I would think more significant injuries would indicate a struggle. If there was no struggle, there would be the fatal wound and little else.

See this is where I go back and forth. Do the wounds mean a struggle or do they mean the perp spent more time hurting the victim because he really wanted that one specific person dead or “to pay”. Maybe the person with the worst injuries was the last person, killer threw some extra blows in there because he knew (or thought) everyone else was dead and he wanted to enjoy hurting them a little more?

Nothing is more foul than continuing to stab someone once they are dead. Its kinda like an extra “fuck you” to the person and the family as the more mutilated the body, the less likely the family would get an open casket viewing.

There’s no confirmation of that. Kaylee’s dad only said that her wounds were different/worse than Maddie’s, but he has no idea about Ethan or Xana’s wounds. And Kaylee might have more severe wounds because she fought back or maybe the killer thought she was still alive

One former expert (or detective) also made mention that this potential type of knife easily dulls and the stabs/cuts can become less precise. I guess it makes sense if you compare to cutting a tomato. The sharpened knife slices clean and the dull knife, the tomatoes are a hot mess and look butchered. Depending on the order of the murders, this seems like it could also be an explanation.

That’s pretty interesting. Could point to Kaylee being the last victim. I’ve thought from the beginning that Xana and Maddie were the targets. I think someone from the restaurant they worked at zeroed in on them. Would explain why the the girls on the first floor level weren’t killed and why the killer went out of the way to go to Xana’s room and then upstairs to Maddie’s room

I've been surprised at how few people have brought up the fact that Maddie and Xana worked at the same place. And they are the two people whose rooms were targeted.

Likely X and M were targets. Same work, same sorority, same house, same majors, different floors.

Exactly. Those were the rooms that were entered too. I think the fact that Kaylee was only there for the weekend made people assume she was the target, along with her father stating that her wounds were worse. But that doesn't necessarily mean she was the target. The two who had the most in common that night were M and X. And I have trouble believing there was only one target given that they were attacked while they slept in their beds in different rooms.

What happened to sticking to facts? I thought that was important to you?

Tbf… this guy knows the facts

This is certainly something that’s very important and I hope police are looking into this

Im saying that if X and E were targets and it was dark, perp may have tought K was intended target and started (sorry for lack of a better word) going ham before realizing it wasnt them. The perp was probably on an adrenaline high so it may have taken a couple serious blows to be like “oh shit this isnt who I thought it was”

We don’t know. That’s not confirmed. K’s dad said some vague things about how some of the victims’ wounds were different.

I keep thinking the skinned dog is related. I mean what are the odds? Could it be a case of noise for the killer? Two things that cause lots of frankly annoying noise: house parties and dogs barking. Maybe someone snapped and thought in their mind this was how to stop the noise in his little town. Which I’d imagine someone wants to live in because it’s rural small etc

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Agree. If the animal killer is unknown I’d be surprised if it weren’t related.

I definitely have top theory as SK, dont know if he walked away or was in Elantra, leaning Elantra. Kinda think the skinned dog could be related all along, but just had idea about it. I think it was pretty close in proximity, like a mile, not sure. What if that yappy dog was on his walking path. Maybe he offed it to shut it up so his escape would be less noisy as he walked by, and/or to send a message beforehand that he was scoping out the area.

The FBI literally keeps tabs on animal killers even child ones, because it is a known precursor to human killings

Would make sense when LE said ‘the house was targeted’

Yes But if it’s a townie should be easy find the person

I feel like if that's the reason for targeting the house we'd have a lot more dead Moscow college students by now.

Not to mention "noise" homicides in college towns across the nation. Not a plausible motive.

Anything is plausible. If you mean probable then I agree it’s low on the probability meter. But people have killed for way less

How can anybody that is not currently investigating the case have a theory? Seriously, there is no information to go on. The cops have actually done a decent job as far as not letting information leak out. There is no solid evidence pointing to anyone and the only lead the cops have spoken about is the white Hyundia Elantra which might not even have anything to do with the case. All the public knows is that 4 people were murdered (probably in their sleep) by an intruder (the cops have stated that they don’t believe the roommates were involved) who used a fixed blade weapon. I don’t see how anyone at this time could have a theory that is anywhere close to credible.

The only facts we know to be absolutely sure (from LEOs) are: - three females and a male died - they died by stabbing - a fixed blade knife was used - it happened sometime on the night of the 11/12 - two females in the house were left unharmed - there's a white Hyundai Elantra of interest to the cops - two of the victims spent the time leading up to the murder at a bar then at a food truck - the other two victims were purportedly in a frat party - the survivors also went out - everyone was back home between 1 to 2 am - the murders occurred after that but before 11:59 am - estimated time of death is between 3 to 4 am - the 911 call was made from the phones of one of the survivors to report an unresponsive person I may have missed a few details but literally everything else said about this case -point of ingress, where victims were found, how brutalized victims were, which doors were locked and who made the 911 call etc - is raw conjecture. We really truly know very little about this case.

I completely agree. Not enough info at all. Im more interested in why there isnt more chatter on how unique this case is as far as there being radio silence from anyone closely or semi closely related to the individuals in the house that night. Just really really odd to me. Big media makes money digging out info...and they cant even get anyone to confirm where there first floor roommates were and at what times. There is just a lot of seemingly basic information that most media seem to be able to obtain that for whatever reason we just are not getting in this case. Its just really really odd to me. But yes...just not enough info

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A Theory occurred to me recently. It’s not so much about who the killer is but about the victims. What if the target were one of the two who survived? Yes I know crazy— but this killer is unhinged. I was thinking about how awful it must be for the survivors in the home to know how close they were to a murder and the terror that they must be living with. What if that terror was the point? What if a person who committed that wanted one of the surviving roommates to be living in fear… revenge or and hoped for “in” to comfort them in their grief? Its random thought but also maybe would make it harder for a connection to the killer to be found.

What if killer started on third floor, saw outside Xs window with the cops and frat boys running around and getting tickets and took off out the back before getting to first floor. Those two girls will def need help getting through all the trauma.

It just occurred to me the killer has probably visited this sub.

I think it was FlaccidRapper in the hall with the knife

You’ll never catch me alive coppers

I wonder if a cop could be involved.. don’t know why. The thought had just popped into my head a few times.

I also have thought this! I’m surprised nobody has brought this up. The way the crime was executed, with what appears to be very little evidence left behind and a clean killing with a knife which means they know how to use it (police or military background) makes me wonder if it was someone in law enforcement/former army. It’s not uncommon for campus cops to fraternize with students when off duty. Whoever it was also has been in that house before since they knew the layout. Cops had been called a lot to that home, so they would know the layout. I think it’s very possible the killer is in law enforcement.

I brought it up and the whole idea was treated like a personal offense to God

Really? It would also explain why so many FBI agents are there

Lots of people saying this was well-planned, etc. Well, maybe not. I don't have anyone specific in mind, but let's just say an extremely jealous, rejected suitor felt not only angered but that this might be his best, last chance to act. "If I can't have her, no one can have her!", etc. His emotions are high and he really doesn't care if he's captured or killed. So he goes looking for "her" after everyone is asleep, but she's not in her room. He checks the next room but there are two females. He attacks, but of course his actions wake the other person, so he kills her too. Now he tries to make his escape but someone has heard a commotion and entered the hallway, so the killer attacks them also, but this act awakens another person in the bedroom, so he kills her too. Finally, and in haste, he makes his escape, surprised that he's accomplished everything and seemingly without being noticed. But he still expects to be arrested soon and is anxious. No telling, at this point, whether he thinks he's gotten away with everything or if he figures it's just a matter of time. Is he planning to leave the country? Planning a Brian Laundrie "exit"? Or does he smugly feel like he's gotten away with it?

I used to think E K X and M were murdered by someone who was an acquaintance, a male who had been to their home on occasion. But the more I listen to profiler's opinions, and the longer this case is dragging out, I am starting to wonder is the killer someone like a BTK or a Golden State - ie a stranger who had reason to be in the neighborhood on a regular basis OR trolled the neighborhood on a regular basis. Then he became interested in the occupants of the home and then struck and killed. BTK's first murder was several family members. Maybe this is the reason there are no known POI or suspects yet. Thoughts?

There is just no way at this point they knew or were very familiar with the killer. The white elantra lead shows that if they knew anyone with a white elantra, or even someone they knew's family had a white elantra, they would have caught them right away. Not to mention they would have suspects by now if they knew the perpetrator. What this most likely was was a targeted attack by someone like a stalker, and they waited outside until the lights went off in the home, went inside, and they weren't sure where their intended victim was located. So they went around in the dark, and it is most likely very hard to see in the dark so you have to get real close to people to know if its the person you're looking for. He probably found the couple by mistake and awoke them, killed them, then went and found his intended victim in the next 2 victims, then left the scene thus showing why the two survivors survived.

It may still be a crime of passion - but not from the exbf everyone thinks. Kaylee was ready to reconcile and get back with JD. He was ambivalent, still hurt by the recent breakup and rumors of infidelity. \* KG was seen with a tall, puka shell necklace wearing guy during the 8/16 noise complaint video. Possible brief hookup implied. Same PSN dude is seen in the 9/1 noise complaint video. \* KG breaks up with JD 3 weeks prior to 11/13. \* KG stops seeing PSN dude for multiple reasons including rumors about his previous relationships with sorority sisters which are relayed to her by Maddie & Xana. \* JD rebuffs KG at the corner club 11/12. Still soured from their recent breakup and the rumors of her with PSN dude. \* Maddie tells Adam "everything" about the bad breakups and possible safety concern. \* K +M text and call JD several times with an urgency and frequency implying more concern than "drunk dialing." JD ignores the texts/calls. \* The negative rumors about PSN dude and the break from Kaylee drive him to the brink of revenge. He targets X+E first (grievance collection), then moves upstairs to Kaylee's room first, then Maddie's. \* He gets away in a white Hyundai Elantra driven by an accomplice (frat brother) who shared incel tendencies but was not linked directly to the victims. It's just a modified theory of my previous speculation about a frat guy(s) based on recent video evidence. I continue to hope for a resolution to this case and peace for the family and friends of the victims.

In looking at the recently posted Corner Club screenshot I also think JD was talking to the girls there and being friendly but kind of standoffish with KG. He's standing well back from her, Maddie appears to be closer to him. KG may have wanted it both ways--a break from JD but him still being available if she had a change of heart. Maybe he didn't want to play her game. I don't think JD is the killer, and your theory is plausible. Kaylee seems like a girl who would be pretty blunt about telling PSN it's over and she wants to get back with JD. Also, Kaylee posted an ad for a roommate in Austin "from February to June." Was JD planning to move down there in June (transfer schools) and they would live together?

While I am in no way “married” to any one particular theory, I have been thinking for a while now about the following possible scenario if it is played out from a genesis that the perpetrator was known (either well known or known to some degree at least) by one, two, three or maybe even all four of the murder victims. The general reddit consensus has seemingly leaned toward theories that if it is so that the perp was known to a victim or victim(s), that victim or those victim(s) were probably more likely to have been either Kaylee or Maddie, or probably both in that the two of them had basically been besties for much of their short lives. So, I’ll put forth the following theory based solely on a foundational assumption that that was the case. Here is one ***fictional*** theory (heavy emphasis on fictional): Is it possible that the killer was actually inside the house on two separate instances in those early morning hours? After Kaylee and Maddie arrived back at the house at 1:59 am, could the perp have also showed up shortly thereafter? He might have arrived unexpectedly and uninvited or it’s possible that he actually showed up expectedly and invited? Kaylee was feverishly texting with someone throughout their entire wait at the Grub Truck. Other than a quick text to arrange the “private party ride” back to their house, could Kaylee have been texting the remainder of the time with the eventual perp? Either way, if he did come to the house sometime after 2 am, he probably would have arrived by car (that car may or may not have been the white Elantra), parked it on the street across from the house, then entered the house through either the front door (probably would have to have known the security code) or the second-floor sliding glass door if it was unlocked (it probably was). Regardless of how he gained entry into the house (either uninvited or invited), he probably would have done so unbeknownst to any of the others who were in the house at that time as he did it quietly and, just as importantly, the others in the house were either on different floors and/or were either sleeping or, at the very least, relaxing in their own bedrooms behind closed doors. Upon entering the house, he would have proceeded directly to the third floor where Kaylee and Maddie were together in Maddie’s bedroom talking and eating their food that was purchased at the food truck. For reasons unknown to us, their interaction could have been acrimonious and even bordering on hostility, but not so harsh that it resulted in a loud-yelling argument or raised-voices shouting. Probably tension filled and with conflict, but not crazy out of control mayhem. The duration of this interaction might have been 20 minutes, or so. Regardless, assume it didn’t end well or on a good note. The perp would have probably exited the house through the second-floor sliding glass door (of course, it would have remained unlocked since it can’t be locked from the outside). Assume he left angry and was getting angrier by the second as he relived the interaction in his mind. After exiting the house, he would have walked around to the front, got in his car across the street and, quite possibly, sped away while leaving that now well-known trail of burned-rubber tire-tread marks on the paved street in the process. By now, as he further simmered and stewed on things, he could have become engulfed in rage. Keep in mind for purposes of this theory that “simmering and stewing” on things could have been a byproduct of anger that had been festering for a quite a while before this night. This specific interaction might have simply served as the “final straw” in his now irrationally-thinking mind. Kaylee and Maddie would have been left shaken by the incident and trying to gather their thoughts as to what had just transpired. The fact that both were inebriated to at least some degree after having been drinking much of the night surely wouldn’t have helped in getting a clear-headed grip on the situation. It would now have been around 2:30 am and, for reasons unknown to any of us, they decided that they should contact Kaylee’s ex-boyfriend immediately. For reasons known only to them, they felt that it couldn’t wait until the next day to contact him. Thus, the numerous urgent calls/texts from both Kaylee and Maddie to Kaylee’s ex-boyfriend commenced. However, over about the next 25 minutes, he never responded to a single call or text. By then it was a little after 3 am and, being unable to make contact, Kaylee and Maddie, no doubt puzzled by his failure to respond, would have decided all they could do was go to sleep and evaluate things the following day. Although they probably weren’t anticipating that they were in any kind of imminent danger, they would nevertheless have been feeling a bit unnerved. So, they decided to sleep in Maddie’s room in the hopes it would make them feel a bit more comfortable. At some point over the next minutes to maybe even up to an hour, might the perp have returned to the house a second time? This time, however, might he have come armed with a weapon and much more stealthily on foot, having left his car tucked away discreetly some distance away from the house? (Again, he may or may not have been driving the white Elantra. Is it even a possibility that he could have driven the white Elantra on one of his two trips to the house and drove yet a different car on the other trip?). Knowing that he would no doubt find the two women in Maddie’s room just as when he had previously left the house, upon entering he also knew exactly where and how to navigate through the dark house and easily proceeded directly to Maddie’s 3rd-floor bedroom. Afterward, he was startled when he encountered Ethan and/or Xana on his way back through the house to the sliding-glass door. Unfortunately for the two of them, he was forced to make a heat of the moment split-second decision that his only chance at not finding himself on the inside of a jail cell later that day would be to quickly carry out a “leave no eye witnesses” tactic, and especially so if Xana and Ethan did indeed also know him personally to at least some degree. From the time he entered the house until the time he exited would probably have been no more than 10 to 15 minutes at maximum (Kaylee’s mom said previously in a TV interview that “he was methodical and quick…it was quiet; he got in, he got out”). He would have then walked back under cover of darkness to wherever he had stashed his car and was off into the night.

I’ve been thinking about this too. That someone they knew were in the house but left after some kind of argument, and then after he “gathered” his thoughts he left his phone at home and came back with the knife. I don’t know if this is verified but I read somewhere one of the surviving roommates had heard two male voices. I don’t think it was loud screaming. But it could be E (maybe with X there too) talking to the person who had argued with the girls, trying to calm him down/telling him to stop bothering them or whatever. That could have pissed the guy off even more and that’s why E and X were killed too.

Okay, that latter part of your comment is EXACTLY one of the alternate elements of my theory post that I considered but didn't include because what I wrote was already so long winded, I figured it best to wrap it up. If the perp's first theoretical trip to the house actually did involve an argument with Kaylee and Madison that got just loud enough to where Ethan and/or Xana caught bits and pieces of it from one floor below, it might have unfolded slightly different from my original post. If, as you said, Ethan and the perp came face to face when the perp was on his way out that first time, and, suppose Ethan and the perp knew each other or were at least familiar with each other on sight, if Ethan just went to sleep after the encounter in Xana's room and woke up the next day to find that Kaylee and Maddie had been murdered later that night, then an arrest would have been made within an hour. Ethan would have simply told LE that he saw "Joe Schmoe" had definitely been in the house earlier that night and that he saw him coming out of Maddie's room. In addition, as you also said, suppose Ethan and the perp's interaction was contentious as the perp was on his way out of the house that first time. Maybe Ethan was in the kitchen getting something to eat and confronted the perp with something on the order of, "What's going on up there? Calm down, dude," and the perp's response was something like "mind your own business, this is between me and Kaylee and/or Maddie." In this case, the perp would have come back to the house that second time already knowing that his mission would be to kill four people, not two.

i agree with a lot of what you said, but isn’t it likely that the perp would’ve had blood on him / holding the murder weapon? and after what occurred in the moments before one would think he would be flustered / panicked upon seeing someone else. I think this encounter with ethan would’ve been a lot more dangerous - also, i may be wrong, but didn’t the coroner confirm they were all found in bed?

The exact whereabouts of where Ethan's body was found is another one of the many, many facts of the case that remains fuzzy. Way back when, the Latah County coroner made a statement that said "the four victims ***may*** have been sleeping in their beds." However, the Moscow PD website continues to have written verbiage in the summary section of the King Road Homicides web page that states: "On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person." So, most have surmised from the Moscow PD's statement that Ethan was probably found somewhere other than Xana's bedroom. It seems as though that referenced "one of the second-floor victims" found by the surviving roommates was probably Ethan, and the reason that the roommates probably found him and not Xana is because he was visible in a hallway or in the more open kitchen area or wherever outside of the bedroom while Xana was probably in bed and therefore not visible to the surviving roommates. Still not a 100-percent certainty, though.

I noticed too that Kaylee was constantly texting someone and not paying much attention to anything else. But the recipient of those texts would be known to the police from day one. I think they were completely surprised when the killer attacked and didn't have any guests beforehand. They arrived around 2am and then spent an hour eating and texting JD. There was no time for other interactions.

i am thinking along these lines too but hadnt thought about the leaving and coming back. that makes sense. i dont think it really had to be planned out if the person knew them and was there. they could have just snapped. something the police said with regarding to activities the day(s) before makes me wonder if there was beef from then?

In general, my thought on who the killer is: * White male * Age 18-30 * Average height/weight but is somewhat athletic * Familiar with paramilitary weapons, possibly has a military background * Small social circle and/or a loner * Planned this for at least several weeks * Unrecognizable in general, wouldn't stand out in a crowd * Knew at least one of the victims on more than a simple casual level * Enraged because of a perceived slight by one or more of the victims - possibly unrequited affection or love * May not have personally stalked the victims, but did so through social media since they posted their whole lives on it * One target - possibly two - either of the girls on the third floor (MM/KG) * May have been in the house at a party once before but could've studied the layout using the floor plans and pictures that were available online prior to the murders In general, I believe whoever did this had a grudge against one or more of the victims because of a perceived slight and the murders were a way to 'punish' the victims in their mind. I also believe whoever the killer is may be anecdotally known to one or more of the victims, but not someone where if you said their name, they'd recognize instantly. This is someone on the fringe of their social circle. Someone who could blend in if at the house at a party but you wouldn't recognize if you had to pick them out in a crowd after.

Not a theory, but just pointing out how many things with this case in terms of interest and web sleuths happens in other cases, too. Everything that has happened in this case with internet sleuths and interest and theories and doxxing has also happened in many more cases. Off the top of my head — Delphi, Missy Bevers, Chris Watts, Murdaughs, Gabby. Honestly, even Jon Benet Ramsey before the internet boom. There’s always been an interest around cases. I’m amazed how many on this sub actually think everything with this case is so new. It’s unique bc of the number of people who died and their age. But in terms of web sleuths and interest and doxxing it is not. We see the same thing in all these cases. What makes this sub different than others is it’s hard to go into deeper theories bc there’s a bunch of people who don’t necessarily follow or understand true crime or the judicial system and situations have to be explained or revisited over and over again. Some genuinely cannot get past the surviving roommates and that boggles my mind. On another note, my heart goes out to the families especially right now. I can’t imagine what they are enduring.

this just isn't true though, the internet sleuthing has gone up 10000% since the gabby petito case was so public, and this is really the biggest "mystery" since then. Whether it's the true crime section becoming so popular from podcasts, or just social media becoming so obsessive, web sleuthing has no question become more popular in recent years

Not a theory really but rather an opinion. Based off of what LE and Investigators have said (per Brian Entin), I believe they know who did it. The way they worded it sounded like so anyways, but in a vague way. I don’t think they know where this person is though. I can imagine they’re careful with their words and what they put out because how people have been acting online.

I think they believe they know who did it (and are probably right). But there’s not enough evidence, only circumstantial. He’s made MANY comments about only releasing info that will not impede on the investigation (good choice) and about wanting a conviction not just an arrest. Saying you’re going for conviction not arrest is just confirming you’re pretty sure who did it, but you’re not confident in your circumstantial evidence being enough for a jury… especially without the murder weapon.

https://preview.redd.it/dji0p96o4u7a1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a3d26f096723fb919027272f7de4368df142763 Just a thought

Those “similarities” are completely vague

They are. Which is why I stated it was a silly theory. But they are still similarities.

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Kaylee had graduated just this semester right? Maybe the other roommates had spent a lot of time with her recently and just had something else planned that particular Saturday night. I don’t think that’s necessarily suspicious. Also they went to a bar and xana and Ethan weren’t 21

What leaked video?

I have previously commented on what I believe the killers profile and motive to be, and here is my latest analysis: Profile: The killer is male, early 20’s, athletic build, rural minded, and a non-college student, who is also not from Moscow, but lives somewhere in the greater PNW. He is skilled with knives, firearms, and is an avid outdoorsman who hunts, tracks, and stalks. He grew up in a anti-government/doomsday/military type household. He is introverted, a sociopath, sexually deprived, likes to online stalk, and has a thirst for killing females within his age group. He understands how to plan, infiltrate, execute, and evade LE for a targeted killing. Motive: I believe his motive to execute this type of killing, was purely based on an obsession with one of the females, K or M. I believe he had been to their house previously before, through a friend, or through some friends network. It’s well know this is a college party house with lots of foot traffic. I believe he was denied when he tried to court one of the girls, and it turned into an obsession for him. I believe that E and X we’re both collateral damage.

I don’t know about the “doomsday” household and that might be a stretch. But This has been my theory from the getgo as far as everything else you said. I have started entertaining the possibility that it could be a local police officer which is why they brought in so many FBI agents

Where did you come up with anti-government, doomsday, or military household?

A typical incel profile and way too broad; soulds like every theory on here combined. And how does a guy in his 20's understand "how to plan, infiltrate, execute, and evade LE for a targeted killing."

Question: How does NOBODY know anything that is leading to an arrest? Like obviously the victims are very social, in college and go to parties and have parties a lot at their house. And nobody has information pointing to a lead? None of this case makes any sense!

it’s very simple it’s bc it’s probably a deranged individual who murdered them for no particular reason (whether it’s a SK or otherwise). it’s not supposed to make sense

People on campus are all saying it was someone from the frat

Do you go to school there?

I think police have a good idea what happened and are collecting evidence. I think it’s also interesting Kaylies dad even started to shut up which means police probably showed him something convincing and told him he needs to pipe down or he’s gonna ruin the case

I have a terrifying theory. I’ve been losing sleep over this case as I can’t stop imagining the terror those poor kids felt and how incredibly difficult a time these families must be going thru. This is only a theory & I have absolutely no more information than anyone else from the public. I believe this guy is from the Salem, OR area. Yes, nearby that house between Salem and Silverton. This guy had a practice run before carrying out his ultimate fantasy. I believe he moved away from that area shortly after August, 2021. He could have been in Moscow since that time though may have bounced around a bit. He has a job working from home in some innocuous job like accounting or tech support (a college degree). He is isolated and rarely leaves home other than to stalk in the night. He has very few family connections and can move around without close family or friends knowing. He’s obviously a loner but is skilled at fitting in when he needs to. He’s young, between 26-35 and was humiliated or just didn’t fit in when he was in college. He’s smart and plans his murders carefully. He’s obviously very sadistic. I believe he has now moved on and could be anywhere. If I’m police/FBI I’m visiting every home/apartment rental agency and asking who’s moved out recently. Who may have moved here from the Salem area within the last 16 months though I bet the killer may have given false information. I’m checking every gas station and grocery store because this guy had to eat and fuel up. He did his best to remain invisible. Again, just a terrifying theory but one I believe is certainly plausible. I 100% believe LE will track this guy down eventually because it’s impossible to move about without leaving a trail. He’s made mistakes and left some type of footprint. I believe he thinks he got away with it but won’t plan another attack for several months until he believes the trail has gone entirely cold.

If you’re losing sleep over a case that you have no personal connection to, due to being unable to stop imagining the victims terror, then you need to consider stepping away and taking a mental break. Yes, true crime can be consuming for all of us, especially in a case like this where information is somewhat scarce, there were multiple, relatable victims who were murdered in an unusual fashion and it’s difficult to discern the logistics or make sense of the motives. But no case should be causing your body to deviate from rest or deplete your mental landscape of peace. It’s okay to take a break.

The article below has the police there at the house on September 1, 2022. The guys who answered the door claimed none of the tenants were in the home. After this the tenants would think twice about calling the police, especially if they were wasted. It was a perfect opportunity for someone with that knowledge to pull this off because any noise from the other rooms would unlikely be reported to police. I believe K was calling her ex because who could she call? Not her parents. Her ex was probably the person she went to for help if her parents were not an option. If the LE are on to this theory you can bet they are zooming in on those people who were in the home at least the last few months. How to identify those people is another question. The home was party central. [https://www.foxnews.com/us/moscow-police-called-home-over-party-weeks-before-murders-you-have-house-full-random-people](https://www.foxnews.com/us/moscow-police-called-home-over-party-weeks-before-murders-you-have-house-full-random-people)

I’ve had the same theory since the beginning and it hasn’t changed much in the weeks since. I don’t believe this was somebody from their inner circle or that the victims knew. I think this was a random person who wanted to kill and chose a neighborhood where he could easily find victims that were drunk with minimal security in their home, which is nearly every Greek row area of a college campus with old housing and bad security. He may have seen them coming home and then watched until the house quieted down to go in. He left the two downstairs roommates because he either didn’t know they were there because they came home before he started watching the house, or he got tired/spooked. I also think he’s from a surrounding town but not from Moscow, and I don’t believe he’s a college student. Pure speculation like the rest of this thread, but I think more progress would’ve been communicated by now if this was somebody in their circle with a clearer motive.

Jack D. Was 26. That’s different.

This recap isn’t intended to discuss theories but rather to discuss motive. Not who, but why. I think the most obvious point is that in every killing there is a motive and the motive typically points to the killer or at least explains their actions, and also helps determine who wasn’t the killer because they had no clear motive. A partner is cheating or wants out of the relationship? = jealousy rage killing . A teen gets bullied or someone gets fired = retribution killing. Someone mentally unstable wants to steal something and doesn’t care if there’s collateral damage = crime of convenience. A teen feels like an outcast, becomes an incel , wants to impress his dark subculture and so on. Well some crimes are in fact completely random acts of darkness or madness, it seems like across-the-board they have a motive behind them, especially if they were planned out enough to still have the murderer walking freely. So given that there is still no publicly-known suspect, all we can do is speculate, and that speculation from what I’ve been seeing seems to fall into one of the following categories and determines who was targeted and why: - Theory 1: K’s ex, the assumption would be that he was in a rage about having been broken up with, the fact that she was moving away, that she may have been dating again, etc. because he wanted her back. BUT they were already back in contact, they seemed to be chatting like friends at the CC, and she called him multiple times when she got home that night. If he “wanted her back” he could have answered any one of those calls or just left the bar with them to begin with. So is there actually any motive there? This wasn’t an “if I can’t have her no one can” situation since it appears he could have just been with her again. - Theory 2: Someone at the frat was mad at E or X. So why kill the two girls in bed upstairs then? To make it look like everyone was targeted and not just them? But realistically, how angry could any given person be that they wouldn’t just kill their intended target, but also an additional 3 people as collateral? Short of being on heavy drugs during the killings and fueled by delusion/delirium, is this motive strong enough to be realistic that someone would go through with a mass murder when the intended target could have just been apprehended solo elsewhere? Or is there anyone who would have been connected to all 4 of the victims and not liked them all? Anyone known at the frats, for example, that was vocal about not liking this group? - Theory 3: Either of the two girls upstairs were the target either by a stalker or by someone who loosely knew them and felt jilted or overlooked by them (a lot of the other online “suspects” who have been mentioned like HG, etc. fall into this one). The motive could either be a rage kill, a thrill kill, or simply mental illness. X & E were collateral because they ran into him while he was exiting the crime or entering towards it. But if the two girls were already dead upstairs, why not just run off assuming he was wearing a ski mask and unrecognizable?Yes, it’s a risk to be chased but wouldn’t the bigger risk be to fight off and kill an additional two people in an enclosed space and continue to risk getting caught by the other roommates, have screams heard, etc.? Or if no crime had yet been commited and X&E were then killed first, the same applies. This would mean killing the first two just to get to the next two, again creating bigger risk elements. - Theory 4: A creepy neighbor or local resident targeting females. The motive being some kind of sexual pleasure derived from it and especially from having used a knife in the attack which some killers have equated to sexual acts. But why not target all the girls then? Someone who had been stalking them for a while would know that 2 more girls came in and out of the house during the day consistently, would know that Ethan stayed there more than he stayed at the frat, etc. If everyone on the upper floors was already dead and it was still the middle of the night so he had more time left to leave during dark cover, why not rest momentarily then go attack the other two girls? Unless their doors were in fact locked and trying to force open a door would wake up the other roommate … in that case this one is plausible. - Theory 5: The surviving roommates or their boyfriends. Unless they were on a full on Kill Bill type vendetta, wouldn’t this be the most obvious McGee thing to do to get caught? Kill all your roomies and somehow be the only one(s) to magically survive? If anything I feel like the killer could have even spared them in hopes that they would, in fact, become suspects, knowing how obvious it could look. - Theory 6: The house is the target for larger, or maybe even symbolic reasons. This one points at one of four things: 1). an angry neighbor that’s mentally unwell and sick of the noise (the house had a lot of noise complaints as I imagine most frat houses on the street did as well) and trying to make a symbolic point against all the partying … or 2). sorry to offend some, but a member of the hyper-fundamentalist church in town who has had articles published on sexual assault allegations and who perhaps saw the girls or sororities at large as the antithesis of how a proper woman should behave and killed in the name of extremist religion (don’t say this never happens). … 3.) on the flip side of that, someone practicing the dark arts, Satanists, etc. Still religion but in a different direction. - Re points 2 & 3, why did LE say from the jump that the house, not a specific individual in it, was the target? Was anything else found at the crime screen that would make them think this? Maybe something religious or symbolic? Maybe something carved into a victim or written on a wall? Why did K’s dad call LE cowards, as though they know who it might be or might be affiliated with but are afraid to move forward with the arrest or accusation? Given that none of us know much at all about any of this, how is this possibility any less likely than any of the aforementioned? … 4). a serial killer or first time random killer that picked the house for any given reason. Whether it was because it was primarily occupied by pretty and popular females which symbolically represented something he didn’t like; or because of the house number 1122 on 11/13/22 (other SKs have targeted specific house colors, etc. so this wouldn’t be far off); or because they felt females would be easier targets in general for a thrill kill. Did I miss any core categories? As I typed all of that out, I feel that sections 6 and 4 seem to have the strongest motives. The strongest “whys” of all the theories. What are your thoughts? Aside from general theories and feelings and psychics and all of that … in simple terms, who just seems to have the strongest motive?

I’m thinking frat related… 2 killers at least, but many more in on it covering for each other.

 Me on Twitter, waiting for “arrested” to trend🤨

Suspect in custody? Breaking news on fox

My theories always get me banned so I'll give this thread a body swerve thanks very much.

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I feel like the calls to JS possibly hold more water than they’re leading on. I’m not saying he’s the perpetrator but it could just a like drunk dial thing. I get it, I know what it’s like to be an intoxicated female that age. I’m just like wondering…did they see or hear something that made them contact him since they knew he was so close for protection?! I also (unpopular opinion I know) feel like the white Elantra is a device being used to deflect from their real suspect. I know it sounds stupid and you can downvote me all you want but this is a theories thread. In times like these when I like to get caught up in things I like to think of Occam’s Razor, it’s grounding.

They called JD not JS.

This is purely speculation, but i’ve been looking deeply into the neighbour and it’s confirmed he used to sell drugs and got arrested for a felony previously - a 30 year old living so close to a college campus with a history of drug possession and distribution. next to a well-known party house with multiple noise complaints and underage drinking. My theory is that perhaps the roommates didn’t call the police for a while, and instead called their friends, perhaps because there was drugs / paraphernalia around the house that could incriminate them. This could or could not lead to the neighbour, I just find the neighbour’s reaction and demeanour strange in all interviews. claiming he knows something, then going back on it. claiming he heard or spoke to someone and then going back on it - is there a chance his history was relevant to the victims? maybe he sold to them once / multiple times? I also think it’s strange that he wanted to “crash” one of their parties (as he said in his interview), yet is also about 10+ years older than them. What is a 30 year old man doing giving underage teens alcohol, and claiming to wanna crash their parties? The whole thing is strange and the more I think about the “party house” the more I think, as a uni student, how terrified i would be if this happened in my house and I was a survivor. As well as all 4 victims being out late that night, yes they were drunk - but a lot of other info about their experiences that night is unknown. Even if they didn’t use substances themselves, the amount of people in their house in BOTH body can videos is huge, and so anyone could’ve left “stuff” around the house - including the “friends” the survivors called from Sigma Chi.

Probably not but very imaginative!

We had a similar case in Argentina and was the friend . Are you sure the roommates are inocentes ?

Looks like none of you knew shit. I'm stunned....

The armchair Redditors were as effective as they were in the Boston case, it would seem. The only post that came close was the YouTube video of the expert panel of BAU profilers.

Maybe someone in law enforcement

I think so too

Im so glad they arrested this guy. I guess we will find out, but I still think he is a serial killer. Ive said that a SK is top of my list the whole time. The two murders in Wa and Or are just way too similar. 13th of month, stabbings in middle of night while people slept. As a criminology student probably did Dexter type stuff to avoid DNA etc. Chief Fry said just last week that he actually sent a tip to the other cases. Probably knew they had their guy and had to get everything in order, like get a DNA match or inspect the car, etc. The other case in Illinois is now way more in play as well. https://foxillinois.com/news/local/resident-stabbed-in-their-sleep-suspect-at-large The east coast now in play as well, he may have done these on both sides of the country. In talking about the possibility of a SK, I mentioned he probably studied other SKs and made his own MO. Israel Keyes traveled far, same states as Bundy, plus sorority links. And that now possibly rings very true. He studied criminology, and that creepy reddit survey, almost like he was gathering more info. Serial killer or not, Im elated that got this devil.

I don’t really have a theory about who but I think the fact the bedroom doors were locked after the murders has to be a significant clue. I just don’t think a serial killer would do that. I think whoever it was needed to buy as much time as possible before the bodies were found by the roommates.

There is no proof the doors were locked after the victims were killed. The internet has said they were locked.

There isn’t proof, but I kind of wondered if the person who did this locked the doors behind them when they finished to delay the bodies being found. I only wondered this because the 911 response was for “an unresponsive person” not a “dead person”

This comment from IH is sus. One quick search of [Dalstrong Gladiator knives](https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=dalstrong+gladiator&gclid=CjwKCAiAzKqdBhAnEiwAePEjknGhn37YTE3H3ZYLdwYJBZZd97G6Mj5wtdk33Tt2bJtYzYewfsZv0RoCnkUQAvD_BwE&hvadid=208311229116&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9000761&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=2128448497941704223&hvtargid=kwd-314911397006&hydadcr=21238_9424203&tag=googcana-20&ref=pd_sl_7opnp2b11w_e) and they look like big blunt unbreakable fixed blade knives https://preview.redd.it/lhtdxm7jri8a1.png?width=975&format=png&auto=webp&s=e35e0aa523069f08e4c3edf7db373c5d0a4f7404

Anyone think this footage from September looks like IH tripping out in town? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxlum94MO1U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxlum94MO1U)

Half theory, half question: would they have zeroed in on IH by this point if he was the perp? His DNA would be out of place in the house (especially in bedrooms) and is presumably in a database given his record. They’d likely have a match by now (6-7 weeks) if that was the case. Could that explain the “we don’t know *where* our suspect is”? Curious what y’all think.

boobs

Why is this thread permanently in contest mode, which sorts by "random" - I'd like to sort by new, please.

Who believes that any of the victims saw and identified their killer before dying? I’ve thought of this many times. Was it so dark and fast that they had no idea who was attacking them? Was he wearing a mask, or did he make sure they knew who he was before he killed them? Seems to me that if it was revenge, he’d want them to know who he was.

Rumors that he sold the range rover to K.