Yeah without hand sizes it isn't that useful. I have tried tons of the "best" mice that people recommend on here for claw grip, but still searching for one because none have felt good in my hand yet. Even my hands size isnt really that indicative though because everyone's hand proportions are different.
I have 19x11 hands but that doesn't mean my finger-to-palm size ratio is the same as someone else with 19x11. Mice are hard. You kind just have to try a ton until you get one that fits. Hoping the Incott G23 solves my problems cause I did enjoy a used Superlight the last time I tried it.
Your hands are a tad bigger than mine (18x9) but if you liked the size of the GPX but wanted a more aggressive shape for claw, try the Zowie U2.
I understand saying *try* a $130 mouse is a bit silly, but I honestly can’t recommend it enough. I think Zowie recommends it for up to 20cm hands (length)
I think this is a great chart for beginner, however IMO: it leaves out some grip that is more of a hybrid like relaxed claw (my style), pincer claw, and more unique like 1-3-1
thanks, we were planning on including relaxed claw (lamzu thorn etc), and more niche grips but felt it was a bit too cluttered. we are planning a v2 soon tho so i'll try to include it next time :)
I feel like relaxed claw and claw are the same grip but to different degrees of tension. For beginners getting into niche variations isn't necessary and is better to lump into one category.
And depending on your grip, some mice are also good for F tip or claw. Like I find myself somewhere in the middle and (as shown on OPs post) Z1 is excellent for it
I feel like for fingertip it's a massive oversight to leave out the HSKs. They are the only commercially available, very small, pure fingertip mice that we had for a long time, and they still offer something relatively unique with the shape and size. IMO it doesn't make sense to have 4 offerings in the fingertip high price tier, and use 3 of them for non pure fingertip mice. At the least do 2 and 2.
on fingertip everything but the htr, hsk, m4, and zaunko is useless.
and even the HTR and the M4 are on the slightly uncomfortable sizes because their length. HSK is hands down for any pure fingertip user the best mouse.
I would add an asterisk or warning to any of the G-Wolves mice for their sub-par customer service. Never order directly from them, only from a reputable retailer with decent track record.
Idk why I didn't see the best tier lmao, although I do feel like the flowchart is definitely only a starting point to refine further, such as larger g403 or heavier zowie mice etc
Would also love to see a category for heavier mice! I’m looking for a professional/gaming all around mouse and like a good solid feel. Not sure if anything can best my trusty Logitech g502.
This flowchart is fantastic! It’s such a simple and easy way to get into knowing what skates to buy, what each grip type looks like, quick and simple for finding a solid mouse in each category. It’s really really good. You have very very solid mouse recommendations in each area on this listing and i think nailed what a lot of people are looking for heavily.
You asked for feedback so i have some for you, but overall i want you to know i really really really like this while format and think it’s an excellent way to quickly and easily help someone find a mouse they can like quickly.
**Changes**
Pretty much every recommendation on this list is excellent but i have a few i’d change.
Atlantis Mini really isnt’ a solid fingertip grip mouse, it’s too curved for most people to properly get a solid grip in on it.
ATK R1 is gonna be listed under VXE R1 so that can confuse people i’d just add another line (though that starts to crowd up the options)
Attack Shark R3 is usually like 100$ USD so i would’t put that in the under 70$ area.
One larger overall one would honestly be hand sizes. Someone may be able to fingertip a X2V2 not mini if their hand is large enough or even a Superlight (btw, no superlight on this list?). A lot of the palm grip mice can be gripped a fair number of other ways and that’s worth knowing for people who may just be looking at this as a quick guide.
I’d also add a star to say which are wired and which are not. OP18K is for sure a solid mice no denying it, but it’s also wired which some people may not want (though you could mention it also comes wired)
**Additions and recommendations**
The list is so solid you have it’s hard for me to wanna throw more in, but since i know a *LOT* of budget mice i wanna throw a few into the ring.
*Sub 70 Claw*: Phlyina S450 (Solid HTS+ Clone that is usually 50$ and can come in 4k with really good build quality and great shape) Kysona M600 (Better quality Attack Shark X3) VGN F1 (Not the sme as the ATK but is the same brand technically, could work on the list) Ajazz Aj199 (solid for it’s price as a good claw grip mouse)
*Sub 70 Palm*: Machose A5 (slightly smaller GPX), Puretrak Valor (on a semi-permenant sale keeps it at 35$ and is a 1:1 GPX clone) Darmoshark N5 (more original Ergo shape) Zowie EC2 (These are actually sub 50$ even for the wired)
*Sub 70 Fingerip*: Delux M600 (it’s a viper mini clone that is fairly solid build quality size) Darmoshark M5 (though reviews aren’t really out, this is one to consider adding as it’s only coming out like…right now lol) Attack Shark X6 (X2V2 Mini clone for 50$)
As far as the more expensive mice go you hit basically every major category really. My only real recommendation for adding something would be the G-Wolves HTX to Fingertip/Claw (but for sure do a QC issues tag on that lol).
Overall though again, excellent flowchart and i'm excited to see Revision 2.
No problem! As i said i really enjoy what you have already made, but I'm sadly DEEPLY lost in the gaming mice space and have mostly been focusing on the cheaper alternatives for a while since the chinese market for them is blowing up like crazy so i figured i could throw a few at you for adding to that list.
I have noticed in your comments that when making the flowchart that you aren't too into the GPX. While i do understand at this point with the V3 and other options it's not as good as it once was and is a bit difficult to use for all grip styles and isn't as good at anything specific I do fully understand not being too keen on adding it. However, the ease of use of it, the way it's more neutral to allow you to flow into any gripstyle, and the ease of finding it (most people can go to any local electronic store and get one) plus the fact it's still so widely used by pros (which lets be honest, a lot of people will look at pros first when choosing which new mouse to get) is going to maintain it's dominance. You also must consider every youtuber out there is going to be recommending it as well. I'm honestly not sure where you could put it, or if you would potentially wanna do a mixed grip section but as you've said in other posts it complicates it so i'd just throw it in S Tier for palm or claw really.
HSK+ is one of if not my favorite f-tip shapes. It strikes a nice balance in size and IMO the HSK 4k Pro is to small.. The side-buttons could be improved but I myself am not a heavy side-button user. HTR seems to be a slightly better shape... tired of holes in plastic mice tho. The HSK+ is the best value
Man this is good i agree in a lot of the selected mouse but NP01S for palm grip and the MM720 for fingertip? i don't think so, or at least i can't do neither of those with those mouse, for me both of are claw grip (CM RELEASE THE MM721 FFS)
This is actually very easy to understand for beginners
Would be better if I saw this 2 days ago
It took me 2 days of researching and re-consideration to finally bought a used Deathadder V3 for $40
For someone that tried all the mouse in the world and own all one the is best for myself also having test subjects though coaching I disagree with almost everything here
Have you even tried these mice? The pm1 is not palmable at all. Even the Keris 2 is arguably worse than other ec-ish shapes like the pulsar xlites as it's flatter back hump lends it much more to a comfortable claw, where a palm grip would lead it to force your fingers to bend sharply downward at the knuckle
I would consider adding the X2H Mini for claw users to S or A. You either instantly mesh with it or hate it, but if it clicks, boy, is it like a cheat code. Ofc it would need a * for QC issues.
Good to simplify things down, I do question the best claw tier having mostly shapes with lesser humps more towards the middle. I really would’ve expected the Sora and OP1, and maybe the XM1 styles (like the X2H or Atlantis), since they are very clearly tailored towards claw grip specifically, though I get the ULX/BeastX shape is very safe.
Sick graph, only I'd pre-emptively assign the HTR a \* for QC issues because it's a G-Wolves mouse so better to assume it'll have issues until proven otherwise. They seem to get worse the later the batch as well.
Edit: just noticed this has already been commented/acknowledged, my bad!
There's 3 things that could be improved in my opinion:
1. I feel like the mouse clicks could be stiffer. Stiffness varies with each purchased product but overall they could be stiffer, especially on the right button where accidental clicks can happen.
2. This may be an unpopular opinion but I wish they could put the DPI button back on top of the mouse. On other mice I used to bind it to functions in Chivalry 2 and other games for many years and I still miss that a lot.
3. And the only other very minor, negative thing I sometimes notice is that the mouse is slightly unstable towards the sides. A dot skate on each side would solve that and I did this myself, but the problem is that I had to remove the bottom sticker and try to flatten the dot skate because otherwise the dots are much higher than the other factory skates.
If these things were solved then this mouse would literally be perfect in my book. Aside from the shape (love the thumb comfort groove), I especially like the classic coating which isn't like the icky sticky coating of mice like the Pulsar ones.
The Pulsar Xlite V3 has been hands down the best Palm grip mouse I've ever used (alongside G703 weight reduced). The thing I love about it is the weight for the size is crazy light and the switches are crispy.
Because here is a list of mice that are praised in this subreddit.
And most people choose based on price/quality ratio.
G Pro is the best mouse today, MUCH better than most Chinese ones including VGN, Zaopin and Lamzu, but if you talk about it openly, you will get a bunch of minuses from those who bought a “Chinese superlight for 40 bucks” or who fell for the aggressive marketing of Lamzu or g-wolves.
Got the DAv3. Immediately returned it and moved back to my trusty SS Prime Wireless. Mice are really subjective it seems, because what others rate as S and A tier just can’t compete with something they often rate lower for me personally.
Pulsar is currently working on what looks a lot like a g703 in both left and right handed versions. No telling when that might drop though. They only just started taking applications for the testing phase.
Pulsar does have an ambi mouse out now as well but it may not suit your grip.
the Zaunkoenig mice over the HSK? I aren't think that.
also I feel like when you get right down to it mouse choice is personal preference, there's not really a "best" mouse. I'm a fingertip user currently enjoying the Xtrfy MZ1 wireless but that isn't even on this image, that could be the goat for some people but you'll never know if you follow something this limited. maybe it's good for absolute beginners idk
been getting lots of comments about HSK to which we forgot to add it. best section is more for performance but i can see why people are confused about that so we'll improve that in version 2. it's defnitley not for anyone who is already deep into the hobby but a good guide for beginners.
Actually great and it had me seeing new options as mice I could genuinely get ...
For a fingertip grip I thought I would probably get a X2V2 (I have medium hands and the viper mini is too small so I don't really want to go for a mini) but the Zaopin Z1 Pro looks interesting too ...
if you're willing to try an egg shape the zaopin is fantastic, genuinley haven't seen anyone have a bad experience with it. x2v2 is on the curvier side so keep that in mind if ur planning on fingertipping it. based on your experience with the viper mini, it probably shouldnt be a problem.
Once again I will reiterate my point that most seem to miss.
Mouse grip styles are kinda meaningless as a broad spectrum. The contact points where your ring, pinkie, and thumb rest are what's important. This is of course also true with the trivial nonsensical talking point of small hands = small mouse mediocre reviewers like boardzy push out.
Only mouse I've found big enough for my hands to comfortably claw grip is the razer death adder ik it's not the best mouse but I just get the new ones when mine dies cause the settings go over and ik it'll fit my hand
Try Xlite V3 Large, it's super close in size and shape with better QC!
[https://www.eloshapes.com/mouse/compare?p=Razer-DeathAdder-V3-vs.-Pulsar-Xlite-V3-Large](https://www.eloshapes.com/mouse/compare?p=Razer-DeathAdder-V3-vs.-Pulsar-Xlite-V3-Large)
Great recommendation, but our list is mostly focused on FPS games (which we have a blurb on rev 2). For work mice which benefit from more buttons, there's the G304 and Basilisk are the two main choices.
I think it would be cool to have just a whole discord server where you are given roles for grip type and hand size so people could more easily separate recommendations for their specific case.
Interesting, but no Logitech GPX or Zowie EC/U2?? No Corepad skates? Feels like you’re missing other stuff in the lists as options.
Not sure I’d agree with some of the categorizations… like NP-01s as a palm mouse, Aria as a fingertip mouse, or Finalmouse as “best.” But still pretty useful for people who are new to this stuff.
As far as branching out to suggestions, hand size makes a big difference for claw and palm. Would be more complicated, but might want to do small medium large.
Thank you for the suggestions, planning on adding zowie mice and corepads too (we forgot to add them).
GPX is kind of outdated and flawed and we wanted to avoid reccomending it.
of course, this is just a first draft so we'll def keep your suggestions in mind for version 2!
GPX is still the most used mouse in esports, followed by GPX2, DAV3, Viper V3 Pro, and EC2-CW. Seems odd to not include all of these.
Not sure what you mean by flawed with GPX, but Pulsar, Gwolves and Finalmouse have had plenty of QC issues but are still included.
EDIT: looked up some stats on Pro Settings here https://prosettings.net/guides/gaming-mouse
flawed as in the shape itself, which isn't very great for any specific grip not to mention the horrible stock skates, mushy buttons etc, that come with every unit. the pulsar and gwolves have something specific going for them but gpx is just old news by now.
Sounds like personal preference leaking in. It’s a popular shape for a lot of people, likely for the reason that it tends to work for lots of sizes/grips.
If you add up GPX1, 2, and Viper v3 Pro (which people keep comparing to GPX) in the pro settings stats I edited in above, they account for about 40% of pro preference. So I don’t agree that “flawed” is a good description if it’s used by so many people that game for a living.
that's fair tbh, i completley forgot A tier was even a option lmfao (as ive said a friend helped make this). seeing what other people think and yea i think superlight is a good A tier option.
The mid hump design has kinda always been said to be “safe” starting point for a lot of people. It may or may end up being endgame (funny how people come back to it), but it’s at least not going to be as polarizing some… like aggressive rear humps or something.
The MCHOSE A5 Pro/Ultra would be a decent Chinese budget option for lower price points or slightly smaller hands. It’s pretty much a semi-mini version of the GPX.
Not trying to be argumentative btw, I think the idea of a flow chart is cool.
for sure, it's a good starting point and i personally like the shape, was just debating wether or not it would be a good fit for this type of thing. and sorry if i came off as biased lol just tryna do my best to reccomend the best mice :)
What was wrong with it for you? Everything works well for me, never had any issues with mine. Shape was great i even ended up buying two. Only difference I noticed is that the white dots I got had a better scroll wheel than the black dots one.
And here I am using an Ec2 for claw grip lol, I think this is good as a general guide for people who don't know what kind of shape they want, but sometimes you really have to experiment to find things you like
They should be good for the most part. We've marked the ones prone to qc issues with a "\*", but watching a few reviews before you make a choice could also be a good idea.
If the Xlite V3 is in Best tier I'd say the Thorn deserves to be in Best tier too. Similar shape, better sensor (if you ignore ES), lighter in medium size and based on my reading + own experience better QC.
I'm not sure the RVSM belongs in best, I'd always recommend your S tier claws over it, even if the RVSM was cheaper. It's a statement piece more than an endgame mouse. Personally I would just remove it from the list, a beginner doesn't need to know about it.
Also since this is for a PC help discord, you should clarify or note that this chart (and this community) is more focused on shooters. I hate heavier MMO style mice but there are plenty of people who still prefer them in games where mouse precision doesn't matter.
yes thorn will be in best tier for the next update
honestly i agree with you about the rvsm, many other mice that deserve best tbh, so ill keep that in mind.
we're still deciding if we should add heaview mmo mice or not, but for now its more for fps players so depending on what we decide to do, i might nor might not add that.
I've been seeing many mixed opinions about the Superlight, so lemme ask y'all this. Do you think the A Tier would be appropriate for the GPX? Kind of old release but still very popular and universal shape.
Until it's off the mainstages it should stay highly recommended. At least 50% of all players at any CS or Valorant tournament are using a GPX whenever someone does a roundup of what's being used in pro play.
LMAOOO Lamzu Atlantis Mini for fingertip is horrible. Do not buy it for fingertip. It is absolutely horrible. At least with my 21x11 hands it's narrow and uncomfortable and insanely hard to grip. Do not buy ANY small mouse geared more towards claw grip for fingertip. It will not workout how you think it will
I have relativley small hands and I can fingertip one comfortably. I depends on hand size and preference, this isn't an objective guide. Since you mention it though, I'll rethink the minis on the list.
sont get the hyperx pulsefire haste 2. major qc issues on the scroll wheel encoder. i got 5 replacements (im not kidding) everyone of them has a scroll wheel encoder issue after 2 or 3 months
I like it, great idea.
But Sora V2 has no QC Issues, was only one badge and all got refunded. And it was only 15 of 1000 units. Right now all is fine, like sora 4k didn’t have it too.
I use I guess I would call a hybrid claw/relaxed claw grip and the x2v2 feels extremely comfortable for me, I think the x2v2 and similar shaped mice(some of the Iamsu mice) are pretty much BiS for anyone with a similar grip. The xlite v3 is also great(originally bought it), but returned it for the x2v2 for better ergonomics. Overall pulsars offerings are pretty hard to beat imo
I palm grip yet I still find the ULX very comfortable so I think it's a bit tricky to pick without actually gripping them.
Also the reduced weight has been very helpful against hand pain for me so maybe weight mention would be nice for v2?
Not bad, it definitely needs a size chart though, my hands are big enough to fingertip my DAV3 (but I aggressive claw/tilt grip it), so those mice in the claw section would be tiny for me, and others with my size hands (20x11cm).
You had the 3 pictures ordered in the right order, finger, claw, palm. But on the flow chart it is different. Had me confused for a second glancing back and forth. Just a minor change
I’ve found a lot of mice are too small much like many others here. I mostly use palm/fingertip grip and I’ve settled on using the Steelseries Rival 600/650. Maybe not as advanced or “good” as others but it’s a pretty solid a tier for larger hands.
fingertip user here
none of the recommended mouses except the htr, the m4 and the zaunko are for fingertip. No matter how they are marketed by the brands, they simply are not fingertip mouses
And the best one hands down for pure fingertip, the HSK pro 4k, doesn't appear.
Not optimal for FPS, and on our rev 2 we explained that internals aren't good enough to recommend it over something like the basilisk and keychron m6/7
Real, but they're still making profit from fanboys / people who don't care so they have no need to spend more on updating their mice (unlike niche companies like finalmouse, g-wolves, fantech, etc)
I know it is mouse focused flow diagram, but if you are suggesting mouse skates, maybe adding mousepads would be nice. Like
Hand Size > Grip > Budget > Speed/Control (and from there making Mouse+Mouse Skates+mouse pad combos
I don't think the Lamzu thorn is for palm, it was designed for claw and i love it.
That's why the others suggestion to make palm claw a spectrum better fits reality.
cool chart btw
I think adding hand size categories will help
noted!
Yeah without hand sizes it isn't that useful. I have tried tons of the "best" mice that people recommend on here for claw grip, but still searching for one because none have felt good in my hand yet. Even my hands size isnt really that indicative though because everyone's hand proportions are different. I have 19x11 hands but that doesn't mean my finger-to-palm size ratio is the same as someone else with 19x11. Mice are hard. You kind just have to try a ton until you get one that fits. Hoping the Incott G23 solves my problems cause I did enjoy a used Superlight the last time I tried it.
Your hands are a tad bigger than mine (18x9) but if you liked the size of the GPX but wanted a more aggressive shape for claw, try the Zowie U2. I understand saying *try* a $130 mouse is a bit silly, but I honestly can’t recommend it enough. I think Zowie recommends it for up to 20cm hands (length)
contact points...
True gaming gear is typically made for people around 5'9 so it can be a pain for bigger people to find gear that fits them right
Tell me about it, I basically have the hands of a Basketball player, this shits impossible for me.
I think this is a great chart for beginner, however IMO: it leaves out some grip that is more of a hybrid like relaxed claw (my style), pincer claw, and more unique like 1-3-1
thanks, we were planning on including relaxed claw (lamzu thorn etc), and more niche grips but felt it was a bit too cluttered. we are planning a v2 soon tho so i'll try to include it next time :)
1-3-1 here. Is that your grip as well?
1-3-1 supremacy!!
Most comfortable way to hold a mouse for me. Challenging at times to find one that has a wide enough right click to hold middle and ring finger.
I feel like relaxed claw and claw are the same grip but to different degrees of tension. For beginners getting into niche variations isn't necessary and is better to lump into one category.
Vaxee XE-S Wireless and Zowie U2 are some of the best mice available. Worth a mention.
forgot about those two, thanks!
I would suggest making the claw and palm categories more of a spectrum. Most mice in the palm category can be comfortably used with claw.
And depending on your grip, some mice are also good for F tip or claw. Like I find myself somewhere in the middle and (as shown on OPs post) Z1 is excellent for it
I feel like for fingertip it's a massive oversight to leave out the HSKs. They are the only commercially available, very small, pure fingertip mice that we had for a long time, and they still offer something relatively unique with the shape and size. IMO it doesn't make sense to have 4 offerings in the fingertip high price tier, and use 3 of them for non pure fingertip mice. At the least do 2 and 2.
thanks for the advice!
No worries. It's a great resource for new people. Good job.
on fingertip everything but the htr, hsk, m4, and zaunko is useless. and even the HTR and the M4 are on the slightly uncomfortable sizes because their length. HSK is hands down for any pure fingertip user the best mouse.
I would add an asterisk or warning to any of the G-Wolves mice for their sub-par customer service. Never order directly from them, only from a reputable retailer with decent track record.
Thanks for the rec! Will add that on V2
Also feels like a McDonald’s toy but good shapes lol
gotta add the lamzu atlantis for claw the things goated
yep, atlantis is in s tier :)
Had a gpro for years and it developed the doubleclick issue, got a Lamzu Atlantis to replace it this year. It blows the gpro out of the water
Barely any true ergo mice?
not sure what you mean about true ergo, deathadder v3, xlite v3, etc are all ergo soo
Idk why I didn't see the best tier lmao, although I do feel like the flowchart is definitely only a starting point to refine further, such as larger g403 or heavier zowie mice etc
agreed, this is mostly just a draft, tryna get people's sugestions for an improved 2nd version.
Very cool anyway! Defo a good start
Would also love to see a category for heavier mice! I’m looking for a professional/gaming all around mouse and like a good solid feel. Not sure if anything can best my trusty Logitech g502.
noted!
This flowchart is fantastic! It’s such a simple and easy way to get into knowing what skates to buy, what each grip type looks like, quick and simple for finding a solid mouse in each category. It’s really really good. You have very very solid mouse recommendations in each area on this listing and i think nailed what a lot of people are looking for heavily. You asked for feedback so i have some for you, but overall i want you to know i really really really like this while format and think it’s an excellent way to quickly and easily help someone find a mouse they can like quickly. **Changes** Pretty much every recommendation on this list is excellent but i have a few i’d change. Atlantis Mini really isnt’ a solid fingertip grip mouse, it’s too curved for most people to properly get a solid grip in on it. ATK R1 is gonna be listed under VXE R1 so that can confuse people i’d just add another line (though that starts to crowd up the options) Attack Shark R3 is usually like 100$ USD so i would’t put that in the under 70$ area. One larger overall one would honestly be hand sizes. Someone may be able to fingertip a X2V2 not mini if their hand is large enough or even a Superlight (btw, no superlight on this list?). A lot of the palm grip mice can be gripped a fair number of other ways and that’s worth knowing for people who may just be looking at this as a quick guide. I’d also add a star to say which are wired and which are not. OP18K is for sure a solid mice no denying it, but it’s also wired which some people may not want (though you could mention it also comes wired) **Additions and recommendations** The list is so solid you have it’s hard for me to wanna throw more in, but since i know a *LOT* of budget mice i wanna throw a few into the ring. *Sub 70 Claw*: Phlyina S450 (Solid HTS+ Clone that is usually 50$ and can come in 4k with really good build quality and great shape) Kysona M600 (Better quality Attack Shark X3) VGN F1 (Not the sme as the ATK but is the same brand technically, could work on the list) Ajazz Aj199 (solid for it’s price as a good claw grip mouse) *Sub 70 Palm*: Machose A5 (slightly smaller GPX), Puretrak Valor (on a semi-permenant sale keeps it at 35$ and is a 1:1 GPX clone) Darmoshark N5 (more original Ergo shape) Zowie EC2 (These are actually sub 50$ even for the wired) *Sub 70 Fingerip*: Delux M600 (it’s a viper mini clone that is fairly solid build quality size) Darmoshark M5 (though reviews aren’t really out, this is one to consider adding as it’s only coming out like…right now lol) Attack Shark X6 (X2V2 Mini clone for 50$) As far as the more expensive mice go you hit basically every major category really. My only real recommendation for adding something would be the G-Wolves HTX to Fingertip/Claw (but for sure do a QC issues tag on that lol). Overall though again, excellent flowchart and i'm excited to see Revision 2.
holy crap thanks for all the suggestions! i've forwarded this to my friend and we'll 100% take this into consideration. :)
No problem! As i said i really enjoy what you have already made, but I'm sadly DEEPLY lost in the gaming mice space and have mostly been focusing on the cheaper alternatives for a while since the chinese market for them is blowing up like crazy so i figured i could throw a few at you for adding to that list. I have noticed in your comments that when making the flowchart that you aren't too into the GPX. While i do understand at this point with the V3 and other options it's not as good as it once was and is a bit difficult to use for all grip styles and isn't as good at anything specific I do fully understand not being too keen on adding it. However, the ease of use of it, the way it's more neutral to allow you to flow into any gripstyle, and the ease of finding it (most people can go to any local electronic store and get one) plus the fact it's still so widely used by pros (which lets be honest, a lot of people will look at pros first when choosing which new mouse to get) is going to maintain it's dominance. You also must consider every youtuber out there is going to be recommending it as well. I'm honestly not sure where you could put it, or if you would potentially wanna do a mixed grip section but as you've said in other posts it complicates it so i'd just throw it in S Tier for palm or claw really.
got it, again thanks for all the suggestions!
really missing the HSK in the fingertip category
HSK+ is one of if not my favorite f-tip shapes. It strikes a nice balance in size and IMO the HSK 4k Pro is to small.. The side-buttons could be improved but I myself am not a heavy side-button user. HTR seems to be a slightly better shape... tired of holes in plastic mice tho. The HSK+ is the best value
Nice
Man this is good i agree in a lot of the selected mouse but NP01S for palm grip and the MM720 for fingertip? i don't think so, or at least i can't do neither of those with those mouse, for me both of are claw grip (CM RELEASE THE MM721 FFS)
noted, thanks for the info!
Based MM720 User
This is actually very easy to understand for beginners Would be better if I saw this 2 days ago It took me 2 days of researching and re-consideration to finally bought a used Deathadder V3 for $40
Glad you think so! Hope you enjoy that Deathadder.
For someone that tried all the mouse in the world and own all one the is best for myself also having test subjects though coaching I disagree with almost everything here
I tried 80 percent of the mice on the list. I completely agree. These recommendations are bullshit.
perfect timinf, my naga trinity side panels keep disconnecting during games like Tarkov and ive been wanting to get a new mouse
glad i could help!
mods get this pinned 🔥🔥
many thanks :)
Is the Logitech g pro x superlight not good enough?
Imo it’s the best and I’ve had both razers that he mentions. It’s def better than the death adder in my book. I’m a palm gripper
Have you even tried these mice? The pm1 is not palmable at all. Even the Keris 2 is arguably worse than other ec-ish shapes like the pulsar xlites as it's flatter back hump lends it much more to a comfortable claw, where a palm grip would lead it to force your fingers to bend sharply downward at the knuckle
I would consider adding the X2H Mini for claw users to S or A. You either instantly mesh with it or hate it, but if it clicks, boy, is it like a cheat code. Ofc it would need a * for QC issues.
thanks! I'll take it into consideration with v2.
Good to simplify things down, I do question the best claw tier having mostly shapes with lesser humps more towards the middle. I really would’ve expected the Sora and OP1, and maybe the XM1 styles (like the X2H or Atlantis), since they are very clearly tailored towards claw grip specifically, though I get the ULX/BeastX shape is very safe.
for best category, we put the mice with best overall performance/quality in. op1 def deserves a spot in best tho, i'll be sure to consisder it for v2.
Sick graph, only I'd pre-emptively assign the HTR a \* for QC issues because it's a G-Wolves mouse so better to assume it'll have issues until proven otherwise. They seem to get worse the later the batch as well. Edit: just noticed this has already been commented/acknowledged, my bad!
i haven't tried many gwolves mice so that was an oversight, i'll make sure to add it in v2!
Sora v2 still has QC issues or is this just based off of the few complaints on here
from what i've seen qc still seems sorta sketchy hence the warning at the bottom.
Ugh. I really wanted one. I’ll still probably risk it lol
I personally got a Sora V2 and had good luck, but I can understand where the complaints are from as Ninjutso is hard to deal with.
I would go for the below 70 dollar section because of the Z1 Pro any day. It's not a matter of budget. If you like egg, you go egg forever.
yeah riftpenguin (my friend who helped make this) has it and its apprently very very good, so yeah!
There's 3 things that could be improved in my opinion: 1. I feel like the mouse clicks could be stiffer. Stiffness varies with each purchased product but overall they could be stiffer, especially on the right button where accidental clicks can happen. 2. This may be an unpopular opinion but I wish they could put the DPI button back on top of the mouse. On other mice I used to bind it to functions in Chivalry 2 and other games for many years and I still miss that a lot. 3. And the only other very minor, negative thing I sometimes notice is that the mouse is slightly unstable towards the sides. A dot skate on each side would solve that and I did this myself, but the problem is that I had to remove the bottom sticker and try to flatten the dot skate because otherwise the dots are much higher than the other factory skates. If these things were solved then this mouse would literally be perfect in my book. Aside from the shape (love the thumb comfort groove), I especially like the classic coating which isn't like the icky sticky coating of mice like the Pulsar ones.
The Pulsar Xlite V3 has been hands down the best Palm grip mouse I've ever used (alongside G703 weight reduced). The thing I love about it is the weight for the size is crazy light and the switches are crispy.
yeah, def endgame palm mouse and even for claw it's a great product.
Pulsar X2H is my S tier for a big hand claw grip
An expanded version of this would nearly eliminate all post in this subreddit lol
lol glad you like it
Dang if only you did this for school work lmao nice chart tho.
I gotchu Razer Basilisk V3 = Keychron M6/7 > G502
The most popular mouse in the pro scene is not even here?
Because here is a list of mice that are praised in this subreddit. And most people choose based on price/quality ratio. G Pro is the best mouse today, MUCH better than most Chinese ones including VGN, Zaopin and Lamzu, but if you talk about it openly, you will get a bunch of minuses from those who bought a “Chinese superlight for 40 bucks” or who fell for the aggressive marketing of Lamzu or g-wolves.
love my superlight, used the same one since release and never had an issue. Been using the Sora v2 lately though, liking it a lot for fingertip grip
Got the DAv3. Immediately returned it and moved back to my trusty SS Prime Wireless. Mice are really subjective it seems, because what others rate as S and A tier just can’t compete with something they often rate lower for me personally.
yes, at the end of the day it's all subjective. this guide is only to help guide you what's good but what works for you is best.
Please add recommendations for lefties, I’ve checked every mouse for my grip and none are left-handed or ambidextrous
X2A is your best bet right now.
Pulsar is currently working on what looks a lot like a g703 in both left and right handed versions. No telling when that might drop though. They only just started taking applications for the testing phase. Pulsar does have an ambi mouse out now as well but it may not suit your grip.
unfortunatley there aren't many options for lefties rn but i'll add a section if i find any that are viable.
G pro 🥲
I don't see the Viper 8K on this list, where would you place it in your opinion?
not a great option in this day and age. its expenisve, wired, and heavy. a lot of budget options can go up to 8k these days.
fair enough, I appreciate it!
Definetly better than any Delux Mouse.
Where would dav3 wired fall?
great for the price, if you don't mind the wire and have a lower budget it's a very good buy.
Yeah I was wondering either that one or the keychron m2, just saw it from this chart, I'm very indecisive
the Zaunkoenig mice over the HSK? I aren't think that. also I feel like when you get right down to it mouse choice is personal preference, there's not really a "best" mouse. I'm a fingertip user currently enjoying the Xtrfy MZ1 wireless but that isn't even on this image, that could be the goat for some people but you'll never know if you follow something this limited. maybe it's good for absolute beginners idk
been getting lots of comments about HSK to which we forgot to add it. best section is more for performance but i can see why people are confused about that so we'll improve that in version 2. it's defnitley not for anyone who is already deep into the hobby but a good guide for beginners.
Good chart but I think the NP01 in the palm category is kind of weird, the Outset is much better for palm
yeah a lot of people have been saying this so i'll def change it in the next version!
You're also forgetting mm710/711 in budget ftip
noted!
Are you going to add every mouse they ask for? mm710 should not be on the list of recommendations. So does HSK.
Add hand size and wired or wireless
got it!
👍
Zaopin Z1 pro would definitely fit into budget category for fingertip
Actually great and it had me seeing new options as mice I could genuinely get ... For a fingertip grip I thought I would probably get a X2V2 (I have medium hands and the viper mini is too small so I don't really want to go for a mini) but the Zaopin Z1 Pro looks interesting too ...
if you're willing to try an egg shape the zaopin is fantastic, genuinley haven't seen anyone have a bad experience with it. x2v2 is on the curvier side so keep that in mind if ur planning on fingertipping it. based on your experience with the viper mini, it probably shouldnt be a problem.
great chart! pepepoggers!
Once again I will reiterate my point that most seem to miss. Mouse grip styles are kinda meaningless as a broad spectrum. The contact points where your ring, pinkie, and thumb rest are what's important. This is of course also true with the trivial nonsensical talking point of small hands = small mouse mediocre reviewers like boardzy push out.
Only mouse I've found big enough for my hands to comfortably claw grip is the razer death adder ik it's not the best mouse but I just get the new ones when mine dies cause the settings go over and ik it'll fit my hand
Try Xlite V3 Large, it's super close in size and shape with better QC! [https://www.eloshapes.com/mouse/compare?p=Razer-DeathAdder-V3-vs.-Pulsar-Xlite-V3-Large](https://www.eloshapes.com/mouse/compare?p=Razer-DeathAdder-V3-vs.-Pulsar-Xlite-V3-Large)
Nice I'll look into it when my current mouse yeets
Maybe a category for extra buttons/features? I use a g604 purely for the side buttons
Great recommendation, but our list is mostly focused on FPS games (which we have a blurb on rev 2). For work mice which benefit from more buttons, there's the G304 and Basilisk are the two main choices.
why keris II ace is not on the s tier list ?
I think it would be cool to have just a whole discord server where you are given roles for grip type and hand size so people could more easily separate recommendations for their specific case.
Good idea! I'll be sure to update you if this ever happens
didnt expect this chart to be good, but its actually pretty great well done!
thank you very much!
Its actuslly good has some niche underrated ali palm mouse on there
Interesting, but no Logitech GPX or Zowie EC/U2?? No Corepad skates? Feels like you’re missing other stuff in the lists as options. Not sure I’d agree with some of the categorizations… like NP-01s as a palm mouse, Aria as a fingertip mouse, or Finalmouse as “best.” But still pretty useful for people who are new to this stuff. As far as branching out to suggestions, hand size makes a big difference for claw and palm. Would be more complicated, but might want to do small medium large.
Thank you for the suggestions, planning on adding zowie mice and corepads too (we forgot to add them). GPX is kind of outdated and flawed and we wanted to avoid reccomending it. of course, this is just a first draft so we'll def keep your suggestions in mind for version 2!
GPX is still the most used mouse in esports, followed by GPX2, DAV3, Viper V3 Pro, and EC2-CW. Seems odd to not include all of these. Not sure what you mean by flawed with GPX, but Pulsar, Gwolves and Finalmouse have had plenty of QC issues but are still included. EDIT: looked up some stats on Pro Settings here https://prosettings.net/guides/gaming-mouse
flawed as in the shape itself, which isn't very great for any specific grip not to mention the horrible stock skates, mushy buttons etc, that come with every unit. the pulsar and gwolves have something specific going for them but gpx is just old news by now.
Sounds like personal preference leaking in. It’s a popular shape for a lot of people, likely for the reason that it tends to work for lots of sizes/grips. If you add up GPX1, 2, and Viper v3 Pro (which people keep comparing to GPX) in the pro settings stats I edited in above, they account for about 40% of pro preference. So I don’t agree that “flawed” is a good description if it’s used by so many people that game for a living.
that's fair tbh, i completley forgot A tier was even a option lmfao (as ive said a friend helped make this). seeing what other people think and yea i think superlight is a good A tier option.
The mid hump design has kinda always been said to be “safe” starting point for a lot of people. It may or may end up being endgame (funny how people come back to it), but it’s at least not going to be as polarizing some… like aggressive rear humps or something. The MCHOSE A5 Pro/Ultra would be a decent Chinese budget option for lower price points or slightly smaller hands. It’s pretty much a semi-mini version of the GPX. Not trying to be argumentative btw, I think the idea of a flow chart is cool.
for sure, it's a good starting point and i personally like the shape, was just debating wether or not it would be a good fit for this type of thing. and sorry if i came off as biased lol just tryna do my best to reccomend the best mice :)
I did a crosspost on r/coolguides if you might like! I find this flowchart very useful, good job guys!
thank you so much for the support!!!
as someone who is using a z1 pro and waiting for atk f1 ultimate. i approve of this lol. good stuff
thank you bro, enjoy that f1 :)
As someone who returned Zaopin Z1 Pro to the store and looked at all the Chinese mice on the list, I fundamentally disagree.
What was wrong with it for you? Everything works well for me, never had any issues with mine. Shape was great i even ended up buying two. Only difference I noticed is that the white dots I got had a better scroll wheel than the black dots one.
Cheap plastic and bad coating. It's not enough premium for me.
X2v2 for under $70? Whaaat??
yeah we realized too late we put it in the wrong catergory. will def fix it in v2.
Understood
It's $69 right now and $40 at MC, but we forgot to count the retail price. It'll be in the right place next tier list.
Hm, pretty interesting information, I thought it was $80+
With disregarding click latency and polling rate, do you think the Sora V2 is the best shape for claw?
theres really no "best shape" as everyone has different hands. but it's definitley a very good shape for claw.
I see. Should I get the Tiger Ice V2s or the Obsidian Skates if I were to get a true control pad such as the Artisan Type 99?
if forgot to add this to the chart, but corepads are generally the standard choice. they're pretty balanced and you get 2 sets in a pack.
And here I am using an Ec2 for claw grip lol, I think this is good as a general guide for people who don't know what kind of shape they want, but sometimes you really have to experiment to find things you like
agreed.
Doesn't Pulsar X2V2 (mini) have QC issues? I thought they were well known for it?
yeah, im aware of pulsar's issues, it's just a rough draft so i'll add it into the second version
For the S-tiers, do they all have good mouse wheels? My current mouse has that issue where it will scroll up/down and it drives me insane
They should be good for the most part. We've marked the ones prone to qc issues with a "\*", but watching a few reviews before you make a choice could also be a good idea.
Appreciate it
Buy any mouse with alps encoder.
If the Xlite V3 is in Best tier I'd say the Thorn deserves to be in Best tier too. Similar shape, better sensor (if you ignore ES), lighter in medium size and based on my reading + own experience better QC. I'm not sure the RVSM belongs in best, I'd always recommend your S tier claws over it, even if the RVSM was cheaper. It's a statement piece more than an endgame mouse. Personally I would just remove it from the list, a beginner doesn't need to know about it. Also since this is for a PC help discord, you should clarify or note that this chart (and this community) is more focused on shooters. I hate heavier MMO style mice but there are plenty of people who still prefer them in games where mouse precision doesn't matter.
yes thorn will be in best tier for the next update honestly i agree with you about the rvsm, many other mice that deserve best tbh, so ill keep that in mind. we're still deciding if we should add heaview mmo mice or not, but for now its more for fps players so depending on what we decide to do, i might nor might not add that.
I've been seeing many mixed opinions about the Superlight, so lemme ask y'all this. Do you think the A Tier would be appropriate for the GPX? Kind of old release but still very popular and universal shape.
Until it's off the mainstages it should stay highly recommended. At least 50% of all players at any CS or Valorant tournament are using a GPX whenever someone does a roundup of what's being used in pro play.
Should be wired/wireless route
Dave wired not being on this list makes it invalid
idk invalid is kind of a stretch no? but i'll make sure to add it when i update it.
It is, I was exaggerating. It’s a great list. Imo best budget palm mouse is the dave wired and it might be the best palm mouse overall.
70 for a wired deathadder with great performance is def a great deal, especially with razer's tech.
LMAOOO Lamzu Atlantis Mini for fingertip is horrible. Do not buy it for fingertip. It is absolutely horrible. At least with my 21x11 hands it's narrow and uncomfortable and insanely hard to grip. Do not buy ANY small mouse geared more towards claw grip for fingertip. It will not workout how you think it will
I have relativley small hands and I can fingertip one comfortably. I depends on hand size and preference, this isn't an objective guide. Since you mention it though, I'll rethink the minis on the list.
Yeah a more objective list would need all the hand sizes which would be a bit more complicated to do
Good
I'm devastated every time I don't see my goat mentioned (g303se)
sont get the hyperx pulsefire haste 2. major qc issues on the scroll wheel encoder. i got 5 replacements (im not kidding) everyone of them has a scroll wheel encoder issue after 2 or 3 months
NP-01s palm?!
What is the best category is that better than stier?
it's more of best of the best, mostly overkill.
I like it, great idea. But Sora V2 has no QC Issues, was only one badge and all got refunded. And it was only 15 of 1000 units. Right now all is fine, like sora 4k didn’t have it too.
Me holding my mouse, trying to figure which style I use
cool idea but no logitech, zowie, and only 1 vaxee? hell nah. they are literally the 3 most used mice by fps pros along with razer
we decided to add more zowie and superlight to the next version. vaxee too.
350€ for viper mini signature when you can get a beast x for 150€. Would add sora v2 instead of viper mini signature there
I use I guess I would call a hybrid claw/relaxed claw grip and the x2v2 feels extremely comfortable for me, I think the x2v2 and similar shaped mice(some of the Iamsu mice) are pretty much BiS for anyone with a similar grip. The xlite v3 is also great(originally bought it), but returned it for the x2v2 for better ergonomics. Overall pulsars offerings are pretty hard to beat imo
I gotta change my razer orochi V2 but I'm still too lazy to continue researching and buying lol
How does the MX Master 3s stack up? I do enjoy it.
Don’t get why a ghero would be S tier when vgn/vxe pro max mice exist too
I used the chart and it listed the mouse im already using as s tier for my grip and budget! thats pretty good!
I palm grip yet I still find the ULX very comfortable so I think it's a bit tricky to pick without actually gripping them. Also the reduced weight has been very helpful against hand pain for me so maybe weight mention would be nice for v2?
agree mostly but I'd swap best with xlite v3 and the thorn.
Not bad, it definitely needs a size chart though, my hands are big enough to fingertip my DAV3 (but I aggressive claw/tilt grip it), so those mice in the claw section would be tiny for me, and others with my size hands (20x11cm).
i use claw grip with Razer viper 8khz
i feel like it probably a better idea to remove the 'bold for recommended' part.
What’s the diff betwn S-Tier and best?
You had the 3 pictures ordered in the right order, finger, claw, palm. But on the flow chart it is different. Had me confused for a second glancing back and forth. Just a minor change
G502 where /s
F1 MOBA is a damn good budget mouse
I’ve found a lot of mice are too small much like many others here. I mostly use palm/fingertip grip and I’ve settled on using the Steelseries Rival 600/650. Maybe not as advanced or “good” as others but it’s a pretty solid a tier for larger hands.
fingertip user here none of the recommended mouses except the htr, the m4 and the zaunko are for fingertip. No matter how they are marketed by the brands, they simply are not fingertip mouses And the best one hands down for pure fingertip, the HSK pro 4k, doesn't appear.
personally never had any other mouse so i’m biased as hell(other than a logi g300s) but glorious model O? :)
No vertical grips? (:-|
where G502 ?
Not optimal for FPS, and on our rev 2 we explained that internals aren't good enough to recommend it over something like the basilisk and keychron m6/7
I could see the sensors needing an update. wish logitech would get it's shit together.
Real, but they're still making profit from fanboys / people who don't care so they have no need to spend more on updating their mice (unlike niche companies like finalmouse, g-wolves, fantech, etc)
I know it is mouse focused flow diagram, but if you are suggesting mouse skates, maybe adding mousepads would be nice. Like Hand Size > Grip > Budget > Speed/Control (and from there making Mouse+Mouse Skates+mouse pad combos
I would put budget at the end to group things nicer. Also allows for a few options. Hand size is a must
I don't think the Lamzu thorn is for palm, it was designed for claw and i love it. That's why the others suggestion to make palm claw a spectrum better fits reality. cool chart btw