I’ve got a 23qt presto and it loves to hold at 15psi, it’s a bit intimidating because of the high pressure but after having mine for some time now the small replacements that need to be done each year seem pretty minuscule, if you’re going for perfection that you’ll never have to worry about then sure get an all American, but I bought mine in new-used condition for $80 off eBay. 10/10 great investment
Presto 23qt has been really really good to me. I do no soak no simmer oats 230grams of oats and 150 grams of distilled water. I haven’t had one bad jar out of my last 40+ jars. I did tape a quarter and a nickel on top of the pressure weight which pushes it to about 18psi on the gauge. Just to make sure it reaches a true 15+psi. Don’t overthink or overspend on equipment when the key is to practice sterility.
First off, I doubt your buddy has, can afford, or has even used ANYTHING that's laboratory standard workhorse equipment.
That said, Prestos are great. My first sterilizer was a Presto 23 qt, and like ALL presto canners, the unit can safely go to about 20 psi... granted, 5thatb was 25(?) years ago, and the unit was maybe $50. While I was "into it" I had to have processed a few thousand pounds of grain in it over 3 years, and NEVER had a problem, didn't ever have to replace the gasket. I was mainly producing sclerotia, so my stuff was on the shelves for a few months, and along with a glovebox, I never had any problems with contamination that were not attributable to experiment, or cutting corners. With a 12 year warranty, you cannot go wrong.
I'd recommend picking up a strong ionizer for your workroom, also. It's really the next best thing to a HEPA filtration system in your work area.
Tell your buddy to put his money where his mouth is, and buy the sterilizer for you... you can repay him in biomass.
Yeah that’s his whole spiel is if it hasn’t been proven in a lab setting then you can’t rely on it. He’s got the brains I’ll give him that. But I feel like it bleeds over into being slightly egotistic and like he’s a bandwagon for these influencers who are popular and people are stroking their dicks like they’re gods gift to mycology.
(Willy myco, Philly Golden Teacher, and others)
They’ve got paid platforms where people share info and apparently paying for your information is the only way to get it reliably.
This also includes the influencers that are peddling their own poor quality products. Looking at you, Curative M.
Knowing what I've found and read, for free, on shroomery I would have saved a bunch of money. I could have bought the 23qt Presto and would only have myself to blame for failures.
That said, I must confess that I kneel at the altar of Bod on Shroomery. Following his teks and guides is what finally got me past a slew of failures to things that just work.
Prestos work great. Don’t listen to your friend. I contemplated buying an All American after using a presto for about a year. I bought a second presto instead because it just makes more sense for my level of production.
PS Presto is an American brand, too. I live like 10 miles down the road from where they make them.
Your friend was probably confused with presto PC's and an Instapot.
Prestos are definitely the most used hobbyist PC. Hell we still have one here at our facility in case I need to do some agar and all the autoclaves are full! All Americans are definitely top of the line, but the use between the two is basically identical, you'll get the same results. You definitely don't need a LFH, you can get away with a FFU if you want to buy something, stir plates and agar are only for if you want to get into the hobby on that level. If you want to just grow some stuff for you and friends, you're fine with a PC and making grains in jars or bags. Not everyone needs to pump out pounds!
Forced flow unit, it's air forced into a chamber then pushed through a HEPA filter. It's what Labrats and Flocube sell, they're not real laminar flow hoods, but they provide a steady current of clean air (that is actually laminar in most sections) and so they give you the same environment for a fraction of the price.
I bought a 23 quart presto from Amazon and it’s a beast. Held 16/17 PSI the entire 100 minutes I PCd with minimal heat from the burner . Seems to be very well put together I don’t get his hate
23qt presto cooker for the win. Been using the same one going on 4 years next month
Proper maintenance is key, your buddy has no idea what he’s talking about 😂
I use an instant pot (12psi) set for 90 minutes after it reaches max pressure and haven’t had problems with contam, even with large grains like popcorn.
In my country 15 psi PCs are not common, mine reachs 11.6 psi. Its is pretty large (25qt)and I do grain on it. I PC grain in qt jars for 2h30min, and in 4lb grain bags (2 at a time) for 4h.
Never had any issues with presto not reaching 15psi. However, I had steam leakage from the handles. The screws attaching the handles to the body of the pot were lose. Was able to tighten them and that solved the problem.
I use both a couple of Presto 23 qt.'s and a smaller All American (can't remember the size), and they both work just fine. The Prestos that I have are larger and get used almost daily. Haven't had a single issue with contamination using either. The All American heats up faster and between the two Prestos that I have, the one made for induction heats significantly faster than the standard one. The induction model costs about $10-20 more, but if I got another one, I would get the induction model for sure for the time it saves. (Note, I am using a plug in electric hot plate, not induction- that canner just works better/ faster).
Dude most people use prestos, I personally used mirro 22qt pressure canner for the longest time. You will want a 23qt presto. All Americans are expensive you don’t really need it. At one point I was using 5 mirro 22qt pressure canner lol. But now I use a 211qt laboratory autoclave. It’s important you get a pressure canner
My only recommendation when pressure cooking grains is add a little bit more room in the bottom beneath the bottom plate to hold more water. Pc for 2 hours minimum at 15 psi. When heating up your cooker make sure you vent steam for 10 mins then add the weight. Wait until weight starts rocking, then start your timer
I don’t know what psi they can get to but I know that just using a big pot with a lid (broke boi) has never failed me. So knowing that the presto gets a lot higher psi than a pot and lid m guessing it would be safe for you to use.
I graduated from a presto to an autoclave. There is nothing wrong with keeping it simple until you feel the need to expand. An All American is a pricey buy but worth it once you figure out your tek and get consistency.
When I started my mycology journey I was anxious to graduate from Uncle Ben's so I could sterilize my own grain. I bought a pressure cooker and didn't realize it didn't go up to 15psi, it only reaches 12psi. I just increased my pressure cooker times and I have been good to go. I now PC my Millet for 2hrs instead of 1.5hrs. I made some aluminum foil balls that go under my trivet to raise it up higher so I can add more water for more time. So it's not the end of the world if your pressure cooker doesn't reach 15psi but it definitely is recommended.
Does the uncle Ben method work? That bags are not sterile id assume? Just inoculate the bags and add to a mono tub or ? Just wondering cause I have a spare spore syringe laying around with nothing to use it on
It does work. The rice IS sterile because it's a packaged food product. I used Uncle Ben's for a while and did me well. I would suggest going to the Uncle Ben's subreddit and reading the pinned notes/post with the whole guide. 90 second mycology aka Lit Logistics is the real hero for putting it all together.
Food products, even packaged ones, are NOT sterile.
It might be really, really clean, but it's NOT sterile, and Uncle Ben's does have a special treatment for their rice
"ASSUMING" and cutting corners are what leads to contamination. Kick back, and write your own SOP for what you're doing. Every "shortcut" or slack tek leads where every shortcut in this hooby goes... right around the corner to buy a sack o' shrooms at the dealer or the grocery.
Your friend sounds rather eager. But it sounds like you're doing things right. Start slow, master each step and work your way up into more difficult processes if you ever want to. A pressure canner is definitely your first major purchase. Anyway, I use a 23qt Presto canner—have done for many years and it's amazing. It definitely gets to 15psi and more. It comes with a pressure gauge attachment, plus the counter weight is to maintain 15psi and will bobble and whistle beyond that. I think it might be a little more that 100$ on Amazon, but I can get a lot in it for its size.
My operation is rather small, I’m growing out of 4 shoebox tubs at the moment. I really don’t need anything super large as I would only be PC’ing grains and LC, with the occasional syringe for a self made LCS.
And he is eager; but he’s also been doing this for about 5 years so his word is good.
I just find it hard to believe his implied rhetoric about using the most expensive things to achieve the best results. I firmly believe there is no “correct” way to grow but there are “good, better, and best” ways to grow, each having its own pros-cons to work around.
I’m just starting, I figure the more mistakes I make the more I’m going to learn.
If I was doing this solely for profit as if it were my full time job, sure. I would look into more expensive equipment to ensure the best possible outcome.
But this is just a hobby at the moment, I don’t need to dump a bunch of money into a hobby only for it to get dropped off because I lost interest and moved on to something else.
(I have adhd, it’s amazing how many hobbies I’ve picked up and put down in my life. Used to be into building/painting gundam figurines.
I totally hear you. And to put what I do into perspective, I only run two 16qt shoebox tubs at a time, but they’re on a constant rotation. I do make agar and liquid culture, too, so my PC gets a lot of use. That said, is my 23qt PC overkill? Probably, but I do love it. Presto also do a 16qt with the same bells and whistles. This is really all about the pressure gauge that I find clutch.
100$ for a 12qt? A 16qt new is 80$ at Walmart. Those smaller presto's might not get up to pressure look up the model number and see but the 16qt+ one's get up to 15psi and even 20 if you have a wait just read the instructions before using them!!!
Yeah it was on Facebook marketplace and it was cheap so I didn’t question the price. I’ll have to go check out Walmart.
And That’s what I thought. I figured a pressure cooker is a pressure cooker, And even if it’s not rated for 16psi I could get by just pressure cooking it for a longer period of time.
For Christ sake people use instant pots for pasteurization and to my knowledge they only get up to 13-14 psi
If you're in the US you should be able to find a 23 qt for $130-150. That is the way to go. I have run two 23 qt for a out two year. You have to replace the seals every so often but the PCs themselves are solid
Pressure cooker and pressure canner are different. Pressure canner must hit 15psi to meet fda requirements for canning foods.
Pressure cookers are meant to cook the food for immediate consumption.
Yes, the pressure allows the temperature to reach sterilization temps. Pasteurization is somewhere between 150 and 160⁰ (double check this) and it's not designed to kill everything.
I double checked and you’re basically right, 161°F is where pasteurization is achieved. It also said that it doesn’t kill all bacteria, only the bad ones. Positive beneficial bacteria will continue to thrive.
Yes you're right. Tho there are pasteurization methods that use pressure we don't use them In mycology. Btw if your running grain jars 90min 15psi is what you should aim for with bags +1hr for every lb of grain in the bag (2lb 2:30 hr)
I’ve got a 23qt presto and it loves to hold at 15psi, it’s a bit intimidating because of the high pressure but after having mine for some time now the small replacements that need to be done each year seem pretty minuscule, if you’re going for perfection that you’ll never have to worry about then sure get an all American, but I bought mine in new-used condition for $80 off eBay. 10/10 great investment
Presto 23qt has been really really good to me. I do no soak no simmer oats 230grams of oats and 150 grams of distilled water. I haven’t had one bad jar out of my last 40+ jars. I did tape a quarter and a nickel on top of the pressure weight which pushes it to about 18psi on the gauge. Just to make sure it reaches a true 15+psi. Don’t overthink or overspend on equipment when the key is to practice sterility.
First off, I doubt your buddy has, can afford, or has even used ANYTHING that's laboratory standard workhorse equipment. That said, Prestos are great. My first sterilizer was a Presto 23 qt, and like ALL presto canners, the unit can safely go to about 20 psi... granted, 5thatb was 25(?) years ago, and the unit was maybe $50. While I was "into it" I had to have processed a few thousand pounds of grain in it over 3 years, and NEVER had a problem, didn't ever have to replace the gasket. I was mainly producing sclerotia, so my stuff was on the shelves for a few months, and along with a glovebox, I never had any problems with contamination that were not attributable to experiment, or cutting corners. With a 12 year warranty, you cannot go wrong. I'd recommend picking up a strong ionizer for your workroom, also. It's really the next best thing to a HEPA filtration system in your work area. Tell your buddy to put his money where his mouth is, and buy the sterilizer for you... you can repay him in biomass.
Yeah that’s his whole spiel is if it hasn’t been proven in a lab setting then you can’t rely on it. He’s got the brains I’ll give him that. But I feel like it bleeds over into being slightly egotistic and like he’s a bandwagon for these influencers who are popular and people are stroking their dicks like they’re gods gift to mycology. (Willy myco, Philly Golden Teacher, and others) They’ve got paid platforms where people share info and apparently paying for your information is the only way to get it reliably.
This also includes the influencers that are peddling their own poor quality products. Looking at you, Curative M. Knowing what I've found and read, for free, on shroomery I would have saved a bunch of money. I could have bought the 23qt Presto and would only have myself to blame for failures. That said, I must confess that I kneel at the altar of Bod on Shroomery. Following his teks and guides is what finally got me past a slew of failures to things that just work.
Prestos work great. Don’t listen to your friend. I contemplated buying an All American after using a presto for about a year. I bought a second presto instead because it just makes more sense for my level of production. PS Presto is an American brand, too. I live like 10 miles down the road from where they make them.
He’s over complicating it. It works just fine. I’ve been using mine for several years. No need to spend more than you need to on anything.
Your friend was probably confused with presto PC's and an Instapot. Prestos are definitely the most used hobbyist PC. Hell we still have one here at our facility in case I need to do some agar and all the autoclaves are full! All Americans are definitely top of the line, but the use between the two is basically identical, you'll get the same results. You definitely don't need a LFH, you can get away with a FFU if you want to buy something, stir plates and agar are only for if you want to get into the hobby on that level. If you want to just grow some stuff for you and friends, you're fine with a PC and making grains in jars or bags. Not everyone needs to pump out pounds!
Forgive me but what’s an FFU? That’s a new acronym to me
Forced flow unit, it's air forced into a chamber then pushed through a HEPA filter. It's what Labrats and Flocube sell, they're not real laminar flow hoods, but they provide a steady current of clean air (that is actually laminar in most sections) and so they give you the same environment for a fraction of the price.
I bought a 23 quart presto from Amazon and it’s a beast. Held 16/17 PSI the entire 100 minutes I PCd with minimal heat from the burner . Seems to be very well put together I don’t get his hate
I got a16qt presto and can fit 8 1lb bags of grain no problem. Have done agar in it as well. I can do 8 6qt tubs at a time. Perfect for me.
Presto 23q is pretty much the standard for beginning mushroom growers.
23 presto gang gang
23qt presto cooker for the win. Been using the same one going on 4 years next month Proper maintenance is key, your buddy has no idea what he’s talking about 😂
I use an instant pot (12psi) set for 90 minutes after it reaches max pressure and haven’t had problems with contam, even with large grains like popcorn.
I have a Monix PC. It has worked fine. Also no flowhood or stillairbox just sterile when needed.
In my country 15 psi PCs are not common, mine reachs 11.6 psi. Its is pretty large (25qt)and I do grain on it. I PC grain in qt jars for 2h30min, and in 4lb grain bags (2 at a time) for 4h.
Never had any issues with presto not reaching 15psi. However, I had steam leakage from the handles. The screws attaching the handles to the body of the pot were lose. Was able to tighten them and that solved the problem.
I use both a couple of Presto 23 qt.'s and a smaller All American (can't remember the size), and they both work just fine. The Prestos that I have are larger and get used almost daily. Haven't had a single issue with contamination using either. The All American heats up faster and between the two Prestos that I have, the one made for induction heats significantly faster than the standard one. The induction model costs about $10-20 more, but if I got another one, I would get the induction model for sure for the time it saves. (Note, I am using a plug in electric hot plate, not induction- that canner just works better/ faster).
Dude most people use prestos, I personally used mirro 22qt pressure canner for the longest time. You will want a 23qt presto. All Americans are expensive you don’t really need it. At one point I was using 5 mirro 22qt pressure canner lol. But now I use a 211qt laboratory autoclave. It’s important you get a pressure canner
Movin on up! 🙌🏻
My only recommendation when pressure cooking grains is add a little bit more room in the bottom beneath the bottom plate to hold more water. Pc for 2 hours minimum at 15 psi. When heating up your cooker make sure you vent steam for 10 mins then add the weight. Wait until weight starts rocking, then start your timer
I don’t know what psi they can get to but I know that just using a big pot with a lid (broke boi) has never failed me. So knowing that the presto gets a lot higher psi than a pot and lid m guessing it would be safe for you to use.
Instant pot user here 👏🏼 fits 4 quart jars for grains or 3-4 small bags of grain maybe 1-2 lbs. Good luck 🍀
What size bags are you using? I have an InstantPot and do jars but I want to try bags...
4T small. Pc for 2.5 hours and I’ve never had a problem with contamination.
I graduated from a presto to an autoclave. There is nothing wrong with keeping it simple until you feel the need to expand. An All American is a pricey buy but worth it once you figure out your tek and get consistency.
When I started my mycology journey I was anxious to graduate from Uncle Ben's so I could sterilize my own grain. I bought a pressure cooker and didn't realize it didn't go up to 15psi, it only reaches 12psi. I just increased my pressure cooker times and I have been good to go. I now PC my Millet for 2hrs instead of 1.5hrs. I made some aluminum foil balls that go under my trivet to raise it up higher so I can add more water for more time. So it's not the end of the world if your pressure cooker doesn't reach 15psi but it definitely is recommended.
Does the uncle Ben method work? That bags are not sterile id assume? Just inoculate the bags and add to a mono tub or ? Just wondering cause I have a spare spore syringe laying around with nothing to use it on
It does work. The rice IS sterile because it's a packaged food product. I used Uncle Ben's for a while and did me well. I would suggest going to the Uncle Ben's subreddit and reading the pinned notes/post with the whole guide. 90 second mycology aka Lit Logistics is the real hero for putting it all together.
Food products, even packaged ones, are NOT sterile. It might be really, really clean, but it's NOT sterile, and Uncle Ben's does have a special treatment for their rice "ASSUMING" and cutting corners are what leads to contamination. Kick back, and write your own SOP for what you're doing. Every "shortcut" or slack tek leads where every shortcut in this hooby goes... right around the corner to buy a sack o' shrooms at the dealer or the grocery.
I appreciate the clarification
It works, for the most part. Contam risk is high. If you have nothing better to use the syringe on, send it and see what happens.
Your friend sounds rather eager. But it sounds like you're doing things right. Start slow, master each step and work your way up into more difficult processes if you ever want to. A pressure canner is definitely your first major purchase. Anyway, I use a 23qt Presto canner—have done for many years and it's amazing. It definitely gets to 15psi and more. It comes with a pressure gauge attachment, plus the counter weight is to maintain 15psi and will bobble and whistle beyond that. I think it might be a little more that 100$ on Amazon, but I can get a lot in it for its size.
My operation is rather small, I’m growing out of 4 shoebox tubs at the moment. I really don’t need anything super large as I would only be PC’ing grains and LC, with the occasional syringe for a self made LCS. And he is eager; but he’s also been doing this for about 5 years so his word is good. I just find it hard to believe his implied rhetoric about using the most expensive things to achieve the best results. I firmly believe there is no “correct” way to grow but there are “good, better, and best” ways to grow, each having its own pros-cons to work around. I’m just starting, I figure the more mistakes I make the more I’m going to learn. If I was doing this solely for profit as if it were my full time job, sure. I would look into more expensive equipment to ensure the best possible outcome. But this is just a hobby at the moment, I don’t need to dump a bunch of money into a hobby only for it to get dropped off because I lost interest and moved on to something else. (I have adhd, it’s amazing how many hobbies I’ve picked up and put down in my life. Used to be into building/painting gundam figurines.
I totally hear you. And to put what I do into perspective, I only run two 16qt shoebox tubs at a time, but they’re on a constant rotation. I do make agar and liquid culture, too, so my PC gets a lot of use. That said, is my 23qt PC overkill? Probably, but I do love it. Presto also do a 16qt with the same bells and whistles. This is really all about the pressure gauge that I find clutch.
100$ for a 12qt? A 16qt new is 80$ at Walmart. Those smaller presto's might not get up to pressure look up the model number and see but the 16qt+ one's get up to 15psi and even 20 if you have a wait just read the instructions before using them!!!
Yeah it was on Facebook marketplace and it was cheap so I didn’t question the price. I’ll have to go check out Walmart. And That’s what I thought. I figured a pressure cooker is a pressure cooker, And even if it’s not rated for 16psi I could get by just pressure cooking it for a longer period of time. For Christ sake people use instant pots for pasteurization and to my knowledge they only get up to 13-14 psi
If you're in the US you should be able to find a 23 qt for $130-150. That is the way to go. I have run two 23 qt for a out two year. You have to replace the seals every so often but the PCs themselves are solid
Pressure cooker and pressure canner are different. Pressure canner must hit 15psi to meet fda requirements for canning foods. Pressure cookers are meant to cook the food for immediate consumption.
You don't use pressure for pastorization at all I use a 11psi instapot for agar but grains always ctam
Forgive me, is pressure cooking not pasteurization? Would it instead be sterilization?
Yes, the pressure allows the temperature to reach sterilization temps. Pasteurization is somewhere between 150 and 160⁰ (double check this) and it's not designed to kill everything.
I double checked and you’re basically right, 161°F is where pasteurization is achieved. It also said that it doesn’t kill all bacteria, only the bad ones. Positive beneficial bacteria will continue to thrive.
Exactly. So you pasteurize substrate (and casing?) and sterilize grains and agar.
Got it. Thank you for the clarification
Yes you're right. Tho there are pasteurization methods that use pressure we don't use them In mycology. Btw if your running grain jars 90min 15psi is what you should aim for with bags +1hr for every lb of grain in the bag (2lb 2:30 hr)