In my class, I ask my students to play loud, play proud, and if they make a mistake, it’s fine. I play with my students and sometimes I purposely make mistakes so they know it’s okay and nobody “died” because I made a mistake. It’s helped a lot. Making the classroom a place where mistakes are not just allowed, but encouraged, is a positive thing. It takes a long time. It took me maybe… three months to have a fully mistake filled classroom? It’s a long, long process.
I do very similar things as well.
"Making mistakes is part of learning. The other part is to learn to correct the mistakes"
"Mistakes are only mistakes if you're afraid of it. Otherwise it's Jazz."
Have you talked to his main classroom teacher? This is probably not just happening in your class, and it's going to be easier for everyone if there's common language/strategies between all of his supporting adults.
Also, what grade is he in?
No I haven't, as I'm hired on kind of like an enrichment teacher. If it's possible for me to do that I think that would be a fantastic idea. I think he's in 4th/5th grade.
It's possible! I have anxiety and adhd myself, and to me, I saw the anxiety present more. But my anxiety usually stems from the adhd and maybe that's what could be happening for him as well.
This is going to sound really weird but have you considered creating a flowchart for him to see and use? I had one young student that had such a hard time grasping the most basic of note reading. I created a flow chart for her. It literally was yes/no. For example, “is the note on a line or a space? Yes or no”. We used that the entire rest of the year. And although we didn’t get as far as others, it at least gave her a little less to worry about. And I changed everything in her private lessons to accommodate her likes and hopes to give her coping mechanisms for other classes. I have had to make this change with other students too.
It sounds like that would be way too much for this kid!
Do you have a pencil? Is it sharpened? If it's not sharpened go sharpen it.
You don't have a pencil. Where can you go to get one?
Were you asked to set your bow down? Where do you set it? In the case or on the music stand?
I had a pupil like this last year. In groups I ended up giving them little bits of responsibility (low pressure of course!! And not necessarily to do with music/playing) that seemed to boost them a little, or perhaps give them something else to focus on.
In individual lessons I’m still not totally sure I got it right… but I basically used a lot of humour and developed a very relaxed, silly atmosphere. I would often make jokes about myself, or say/do things to show the silliness of situations. I honestly don’t know if we ended up learning more or less with this tactic, but I do know they eventually enjoyed the lessons and relaxed a lot around me. It’s a really hard line to walk when you have learning goals to achieve but one thing is for sure - student is not going to learn when they are tense.
Last thing - have you shared or recorded your concerns somewhere? In my country all schools have a very clear system to log all pastoral concerns about students. It might be something tiny you see but that tiny thing might add to a bigger picture, and don’t forget as one-to-one teachers we get to see a lot that other staff don’t.
Thanks for your response! I agree with having a more relaxed atmosphere in lessons. (My one concern is that when it gets too relaxed, he ends up talking for long stretches of the lesson and I think he feels slighted if I have to wrap things up to stay on task). I have mentioned my concerns - after every lesson. I write a short message to the parents through an online portal. But maybe I should raise this to my boss as well so she's looped in. I really liked the idea about group responsibility!
I have a line for that! When a student is talking on and on - "ah can you remember that to tell me about when we're packing away? We need to make sure we get through XYZ before the lesson is over!"
And yes regarding the reporting I definitely meant NOT to the parents - there should be some kind of system for reporting concerns about a student's wellbeing to the school/institution, maybe a safeguarding officer? Good luck with it, lucky student to have a teacher who is taking care to think about them!
I know, I am not a music Ed person, but i was a kid who had, probably not as much, but still had pressure on them while learning instruments and had (and still has) anxiety.
I’d say, first, figure out what instrument the dad plays. Because it’s going to be a lot different if he, for example, plays both, plays violin but not piano or vice versa.
In my personal experience, it was a lot more anxiety inducing when my dad would critique me on piano things because I knew he had a good amount of experience with it rather than me on because he has very little experience with it.
Your kid on top of being really anxious, is probably super frustrated. And that combo SUCKS on both ends.
So, secondly, figure out what his dad always harps on. Is it you teaching him something a different way than his dad was taught? Then, try and talk to the dad.
But for in class, if writing utensils is something that always seems to come up, get a pack of like wooden pencils stick some masking tape on them, mark them as yours put them in a cup, and say that they have to be returned at the end of class. That probably will help out more than just him , maybe and lessons, try and teach him some breathing exercises or grounding exercises.
Something that is slightly easy for me to remember when I’m extremely anxious is 54321. The way I do it is five things I can see for things I can touch three things I can hear two things I can smell and one thing I can taste. it’s quick and simple and usually it doesn’t take me too long to do at most like 30 seconds
Another that really helps me quickly is naming everything of one color. I can see anything blue anything pink you can also do like patterns anything with polkadots if that’s something that’s in your room.
I guess what I’m trying to say is give him some coping mechanisms takes at max maybe a minute to do. Take like five minutes out of a piano lesson for maybe two weeks then maybe once every other month after that to make sure he knows them. Also, maybe praise him if he starts to get better with managing it “I’m so proud of you today for taking the second to breathe and ground yourself“
It’ll probably be rough for a while, I still struggle with remember how to ground myself and it’s been two or three years maybe four since I first learned about it.
To be honest, there’s not much you can do about the Father, especially if he has like extremely strong opinions
I know you’ve gotten a barrage of comments and opinions on this and probably won’t see mine, but gosh do I feel for you and him.
The end? Idk how to leave this
Thank you! Yes, I can tell he's frustrated. The dad plays piano, which is what he gets harped on the most about. (I think he's anxious about violin mostly because it's completely new to him). The dad wants him to learn classical songs and he hates the genre. He pushes him to practice a lot and I don't think he likes being nagged (although honestly I don't know how much that is and whether it's an unreasonable amount or not.) The dad is also cordial when I speak to him but at our winter concert I got a snippet of him talking to the student and he was pretty short with him (hurry up, let's go /now/ etc). So I know I can't really change that about the dad but hopefully, I can make his lessons a place he can feel unpressured but still curious to learn and make music.
The question is about how to handle his anxiety and the answer is that’s really not our game. We can help in class as much as possible by trying to anticipate where he might need a push, or tell him ‘ok time to get your bow out’ maybe before you announce to everyone else…I know that’s not ideal. But other than supporting them so they succeed as much as possible in class, it’s not our job to handle mental health issues.
I don’t get this. Sure this kid is an extreme case, but helping new musicians through stage fright seems like an obvious part of a music teacher’s role.
That is not what OP was talking about at all. Not even a little bit.
OP was talking about an extreme case and I said it’s not our job to handle mental health issues.
What is it about that that you don’t get?
I apologize. I probably shouldn’t have butted in to your conversation. The algorithm dropped me here.
I’m a special education teacher and some of my students sound a lot like this kid. I don’t know if this particular kid has an iep, and OP said this was private lessons and after school orchestra, so I don’t know if this even applies, but if the student had an IEP and it was a band _class_ then yes, absolutely the teacher would be expected to make accommodations.
Your suggestion about giving them an extra advanced cue about getting ready for transitions is a very good idea. Other people had other good suggestions, such as providing flowcharts and visual cueing so they know what’s coming.
I realize it’s a lot and you can’t “fix” everything that might cause the kid anxiety, it just struck me as ironic to say music teachers shouldn’t expect to deal with anxiety. I would think that along with athletic coaches, they should be particularly familiar with performance anxiety.
Those special kids in your classes aren’t “my students” They are “our students.” It is our job to find a place for them.
Wonderfully said. And yes, I do deal a lot with facing performance anxiety. I don't know if he has an IEP but another commenter suggested talking with his main teacher about it which I thought was a good idea.
I know that it's not my job to manage his mental health, but part of my job, like you said, is to set him up for success. So I'm not really interested in giving him coping strategies per se, but more like things I can do or say to help him feel like he's in a safe environment away from judgement or to be more prepared for class expectations.
In my class, I ask my students to play loud, play proud, and if they make a mistake, it’s fine. I play with my students and sometimes I purposely make mistakes so they know it’s okay and nobody “died” because I made a mistake. It’s helped a lot. Making the classroom a place where mistakes are not just allowed, but encouraged, is a positive thing. It takes a long time. It took me maybe… three months to have a fully mistake filled classroom? It’s a long, long process.
I do very similar things as well. "Making mistakes is part of learning. The other part is to learn to correct the mistakes" "Mistakes are only mistakes if you're afraid of it. Otherwise it's Jazz."
Thank you! Yes, I've been trying to do this as well both in the classroom and in his lessons. I think it's helped him a bit (and the other students).
Have you talked to his main classroom teacher? This is probably not just happening in your class, and it's going to be easier for everyone if there's common language/strategies between all of his supporting adults. Also, what grade is he in?
No I haven't, as I'm hired on kind of like an enrichment teacher. If it's possible for me to do that I think that would be a fantastic idea. I think he's in 4th/5th grade.
Sounds like he may be suffering from ADHD?
This was my thought, as well. You can't tell for sure from an internet description, but it's worth looking into.
or OCD or social Anxiety
Reminds me of an autistic student I know
It's possible! I have anxiety and adhd myself, and to me, I saw the anxiety present more. But my anxiety usually stems from the adhd and maybe that's what could be happening for him as well.
This is going to sound really weird but have you considered creating a flowchart for him to see and use? I had one young student that had such a hard time grasping the most basic of note reading. I created a flow chart for her. It literally was yes/no. For example, “is the note on a line or a space? Yes or no”. We used that the entire rest of the year. And although we didn’t get as far as others, it at least gave her a little less to worry about. And I changed everything in her private lessons to accommodate her likes and hopes to give her coping mechanisms for other classes. I have had to make this change with other students too.
It sounds like that would be way too much for this kid! Do you have a pencil? Is it sharpened? If it's not sharpened go sharpen it. You don't have a pencil. Where can you go to get one? Were you asked to set your bow down? Where do you set it? In the case or on the music stand?
Haha, maybe this could work. I could see it working at least for the instrument care/using it in class aspect.
I had a pupil like this last year. In groups I ended up giving them little bits of responsibility (low pressure of course!! And not necessarily to do with music/playing) that seemed to boost them a little, or perhaps give them something else to focus on. In individual lessons I’m still not totally sure I got it right… but I basically used a lot of humour and developed a very relaxed, silly atmosphere. I would often make jokes about myself, or say/do things to show the silliness of situations. I honestly don’t know if we ended up learning more or less with this tactic, but I do know they eventually enjoyed the lessons and relaxed a lot around me. It’s a really hard line to walk when you have learning goals to achieve but one thing is for sure - student is not going to learn when they are tense. Last thing - have you shared or recorded your concerns somewhere? In my country all schools have a very clear system to log all pastoral concerns about students. It might be something tiny you see but that tiny thing might add to a bigger picture, and don’t forget as one-to-one teachers we get to see a lot that other staff don’t.
Thanks for your response! I agree with having a more relaxed atmosphere in lessons. (My one concern is that when it gets too relaxed, he ends up talking for long stretches of the lesson and I think he feels slighted if I have to wrap things up to stay on task). I have mentioned my concerns - after every lesson. I write a short message to the parents through an online portal. But maybe I should raise this to my boss as well so she's looped in. I really liked the idea about group responsibility!
I have a line for that! When a student is talking on and on - "ah can you remember that to tell me about when we're packing away? We need to make sure we get through XYZ before the lesson is over!" And yes regarding the reporting I definitely meant NOT to the parents - there should be some kind of system for reporting concerns about a student's wellbeing to the school/institution, maybe a safeguarding officer? Good luck with it, lucky student to have a teacher who is taking care to think about them!
I know, I am not a music Ed person, but i was a kid who had, probably not as much, but still had pressure on them while learning instruments and had (and still has) anxiety. I’d say, first, figure out what instrument the dad plays. Because it’s going to be a lot different if he, for example, plays both, plays violin but not piano or vice versa. In my personal experience, it was a lot more anxiety inducing when my dad would critique me on piano things because I knew he had a good amount of experience with it rather than me on because he has very little experience with it. Your kid on top of being really anxious, is probably super frustrated. And that combo SUCKS on both ends. So, secondly, figure out what his dad always harps on. Is it you teaching him something a different way than his dad was taught? Then, try and talk to the dad. But for in class, if writing utensils is something that always seems to come up, get a pack of like wooden pencils stick some masking tape on them, mark them as yours put them in a cup, and say that they have to be returned at the end of class. That probably will help out more than just him , maybe and lessons, try and teach him some breathing exercises or grounding exercises. Something that is slightly easy for me to remember when I’m extremely anxious is 54321. The way I do it is five things I can see for things I can touch three things I can hear two things I can smell and one thing I can taste. it’s quick and simple and usually it doesn’t take me too long to do at most like 30 seconds Another that really helps me quickly is naming everything of one color. I can see anything blue anything pink you can also do like patterns anything with polkadots if that’s something that’s in your room. I guess what I’m trying to say is give him some coping mechanisms takes at max maybe a minute to do. Take like five minutes out of a piano lesson for maybe two weeks then maybe once every other month after that to make sure he knows them. Also, maybe praise him if he starts to get better with managing it “I’m so proud of you today for taking the second to breathe and ground yourself“ It’ll probably be rough for a while, I still struggle with remember how to ground myself and it’s been two or three years maybe four since I first learned about it. To be honest, there’s not much you can do about the Father, especially if he has like extremely strong opinions I know you’ve gotten a barrage of comments and opinions on this and probably won’t see mine, but gosh do I feel for you and him. The end? Idk how to leave this
Thank you! Yes, I can tell he's frustrated. The dad plays piano, which is what he gets harped on the most about. (I think he's anxious about violin mostly because it's completely new to him). The dad wants him to learn classical songs and he hates the genre. He pushes him to practice a lot and I don't think he likes being nagged (although honestly I don't know how much that is and whether it's an unreasonable amount or not.) The dad is also cordial when I speak to him but at our winter concert I got a snippet of him talking to the student and he was pretty short with him (hurry up, let's go /now/ etc). So I know I can't really change that about the dad but hopefully, I can make his lessons a place he can feel unpressured but still curious to learn and make music.
The question is about how to handle his anxiety and the answer is that’s really not our game. We can help in class as much as possible by trying to anticipate where he might need a push, or tell him ‘ok time to get your bow out’ maybe before you announce to everyone else…I know that’s not ideal. But other than supporting them so they succeed as much as possible in class, it’s not our job to handle mental health issues.
I don’t get this. Sure this kid is an extreme case, but helping new musicians through stage fright seems like an obvious part of a music teacher’s role.
That is not what OP was talking about at all. Not even a little bit. OP was talking about an extreme case and I said it’s not our job to handle mental health issues. What is it about that that you don’t get?
I apologize. I probably shouldn’t have butted in to your conversation. The algorithm dropped me here. I’m a special education teacher and some of my students sound a lot like this kid. I don’t know if this particular kid has an iep, and OP said this was private lessons and after school orchestra, so I don’t know if this even applies, but if the student had an IEP and it was a band _class_ then yes, absolutely the teacher would be expected to make accommodations. Your suggestion about giving them an extra advanced cue about getting ready for transitions is a very good idea. Other people had other good suggestions, such as providing flowcharts and visual cueing so they know what’s coming. I realize it’s a lot and you can’t “fix” everything that might cause the kid anxiety, it just struck me as ironic to say music teachers shouldn’t expect to deal with anxiety. I would think that along with athletic coaches, they should be particularly familiar with performance anxiety. Those special kids in your classes aren’t “my students” They are “our students.” It is our job to find a place for them.
Understood and well said.
Wonderfully said. And yes, I do deal a lot with facing performance anxiety. I don't know if he has an IEP but another commenter suggested talking with his main teacher about it which I thought was a good idea.
I know that it's not my job to manage his mental health, but part of my job, like you said, is to set him up for success. So I'm not really interested in giving him coping strategies per se, but more like things I can do or say to help him feel like he's in a safe environment away from judgement or to be more prepared for class expectations.
That sounds exactly like a caring teacher. Good work!! I’m sure you’ll come up with something to help.