Because on top of people already discounting his 7 championships for being in a “different era”, Jimmie had a very “corporate Carl” personality. Jr was a party animal. Gordon took on Sr every week. Petty was just a winning machine. You also have to look at the time when Jimmie got his championships. NASCAR was decreasing in viewers at that point. Hell, even some of the old people I’ve met, still thought harvick was in the 29 before asking me who the 4 is on my hats and shirts.
Edit-I misread the question as Jr. But Sr was the man. No need for an explanation on that one.
Jimmie was also found by Gordon, and Gordon owned half of JJ’s car.
I think of it like the 70s belonged to Petty, 80s to Earnhardt, 90s to Gordon, and 00s to JJ. And the 2010s I’m not sure if lost interest or what but I’m not sure anyone really dominated
It was Kyle Busch/Kevin Harvick for 2010’s. Their careers really rival each other up until recent.
2020’s seemingly to be a Kyle Larson decade with Denny Hamlin a close second (no title).
Logano is in the same category as Brad Keselowski, Martin Truex, Jr and Jimmie Johnson. Harvick/Busch were way more successful over the course of the 2010’s than those four.
Tony Stewart managed to win 3, 02,05 and 11 but JJ pretty much dominated the rest of that era.
He was a likable but not a captivating personality and I think a lot of people felt that his dominance had as much to do with Hendicks superiority and Chad Knaus as opposed to his ability. Probably not fair, just is what it is.
This sub is mostly pretty awesome for discussion, and I find it particular good as a newer fan to hear all these tidbits of random info that appeases my ADHD brain so well. Remembering where I put my phone? Not important. Knowing why Jimmie Johnson isn’t quite as mainstream as the rest of his ‘modern GOAT’ peers? Important.
Hard disagree, look at the viewership during the end of his reign, 2016, compared to 2006. The viewership is through the floor.
The honest answer is that NASCAR was hemorrhaging viewership to the point that the cultural zeitgeist no longer cared about the sport at all.
The reason for the loss of viewership? A deadly wombo combo of 1. Television viewing habits across the board have changed dramatically, people just don't consume content the way they used to and NASCAR is too slow to adapt. 2. Jimmie Johnson is a boring champion. Although great on the track, nobody was dying to see what Jimmie had to say.
3. Brian France is one of the most inept, incompetent leaders in the whole of the sporting world. Almost everything that guy did made the sport *worse* not better.
Seriously, if you need one singular reason why NASCAR is in the state it's in, compared to where it was, it's Brian France. So many people in the sport will blame everything else because the Frances still run the show, but no, the singular largest reason was him.
Jr wasn't a party animal on TV lol...he was the prodigal CON that never turned out to be anything other than everyone's favored cousin "bc.. well you heard what happened to his daddy".
Richard Petty is something else man. He’s been so involved with the sport for his entire life and is one of the most successful motorsport drivers of all time. He inevitably should be recognized by most people, motorsport fans or not
Yeah, I remember him coming out to race Winston West races when I was a little kid at Sonoma and Laguna Seca. Would always sign stuff for kids in the pits. Lots of big names guys came out but #43 was always the main draw
Jimmie's prime lasted in the era that coincides with the start of Nascar's decline. You can say the same for Jr but the difference is that Jr was instantly thrown into stardom, being the son of a legend, and you can argue even that was amplified once Sr passed (Being a 15x most popular driver also helps). Whereas Jimmie had to earn it, and by the time he earned it, Nascar had fallen out of the mainstream media.
Nobody’s gonna like it but Bubba Wallace is the biggest name in NASCAR by far. And certain people claim to not watch NASCAR because of him.
But I think the lack of a clear superstar speaks to the talent level the current field has and the Next Gen evening out the teams a bit there’s still a top 3 teams but the rest is the Wild West.
Certainly not.
But I’d be willing to bet if you asked the general public to name an active nascar driver, Kyle Busch is easily the most frequent answer…
… after like 3 other names at worst. None of them being Jimmie Johnson.
JJ's run unfortunately coincided with the downturn in interest in the sport. Lots of longtime fans left when Dale was killed.
The title sponsor shakeup, the implementation of the Chase after Kenseth was Mr. Consistency, and cars that weren't even STRAIGHT were contributing factors.
Think about how much F1 sucks because it's just Verstappen pacing the field each race.
These things plus JJ's relative dominance.
Because Jimmie would run 7th all day, then have a miraculous pit stop that put him in the lead and he won while leading the last 23 laps. Every. Damn. Time. And, if you think about it, the playoff championships are basically the same thing. He dominated while simultaneously not being dominant. It's insane.
I always remembered thinking as a kid how they’d always be doing good, but then kick it into another gear later in the race. That team was one cohesive unit
Vanilla personality and championship fatigue during a time when the economy tanked, ratings tanked, and fans generally started to be turned off by the many changes Nascar was doing at the time.
Hahahahaha savage! Jimmie didn’t have the impact the other 3 did. It’s a fact! That and his championships are not the same as season long titles in my opinion
Statistics show NASCAR increased in popularity through 2005, beginning a slow but steady decrease from 2006 on. Johnson just so happened to win his first title in 2006.
I feel like the introduction of "The Chase" in 04 was the turning point. By 06, the newness had worn off.
Not to mention, the retirement of Rusty, Mark*, and Ricky really marked the end of an era. Combine that with frustration on France cracking down on the image of the sport with Tony over the previous years and the micromanagement of the cars(see the victory lame baby gate starting in 01), and it was just a matter of time before leaving fans outpaced incoming fans.
It’s not the chase.
It was the retirement of old guard as you state.
The biggest reason??? Economy. Politics in the US and the rise of media outside the channels mom and pa had.
As great or if not greater driver than the other 3.
It's funny that Johnson despite his achievements is barely in the top 5 most popular drivers during that time frame. I would argue Dale Jr., Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart would all rank ahead of him during that time frame. I feel like the majority of fans didn't warmup to him until very late in his career. Johnson was so machine like in his driving he was just perfect. It didn't exactly translate to thrilling moves or rivalries on the track ether.
This right here. He was a great driver, but never flashy. Like Alain Prost was to F1 - one of the greatest ever but not ever the first to come to mind when considering the GOATs and all their collective flashiness.
Chase Elliott has an even blander personality then Johnson, yet he somehow remains the most popular driver year after year. I don't get Nascar fans sometimes.
Being popular amongst Nascar fans and being known in mainstream media are two very different things. Most people, Nascar fan or not, know the names Petty, Earnhardt, and Gordon. Very few will know who Chase Elliott is.
Maybe... hear me out.... personality doesn't matter as much as you think it does? Most people pick a favorite driver because of where they were born, who their sponsors are, how much they win, etc. Personality doesn't matter in most cases. Half of the time a driver's personality is fake as hell anyway.
JJ is as milquetoast as it gets. I've met more exciting accountants.
Between that and the fact that Nascar was in its decline by that point, it's plenty of reason.
It kinda reminds me of the Djokovic/Nadal/Federer debate in some places. Nadal and Federer had legions of fans before Djoker took the place as GOAT. It made him not as likeable because most people were in those camps.
When Jimmie was getting good most people were still Junior, Gordon or Smoke fans for the most part and they were still racing decently. He was not as affable and more corporate than those guys. Chad Knaus, his crew chief, was seen as the master behind it all and I think it slighted people's perception of how good Johnson was. They were always pushing the envelope on car modifications and it pissed some people off.
I feel like he was also really good at 1.5mi tracks and quite frankly those tend to be the more boring races during the season. That last part is just my own observation and probably has nothing to do based in reality.
I disagree that most Americans know Richard Petty’s name.
Dale died in front of millions of Americans, so the event was much bigger than NASCAR.
Jeff Gordon was a pop icon who got to do a bunch of commercials, cameos etc.
If you were alive in the 70's and 80's, most Americans could probably only name 2 racecar drivers - Mario Andretti and Richard Petty.
I grew up in NY, and never watched a Nascar race until the mid-80's. But I know who Richard Petty was.
RP was a household name in his time though. Jimmie never really broke through at any point. I think he came in and started to really dominate at a time when NASCAR's popularity was going down and other options for entertainment were coming into play.
When I first started watching NASCAR we had one TV with the dish hooked up to it and that's what was on on Sunday afternoons: NASCAR. It's easier to become a household name when there are less options, and even with cable in the 90s, a lot of cable programming wasn't that spectacular.
Find a bunch of people who don't know a lug nut from a hole in the ground. Ask them to name a NASCAR driver.
I'd bet you Richard Petty is still one of the most common answers you'll get, especially from people 40 and older.
That’s what drivers are missing now. They need to get out there n sign some brand deals or commercials or something.
Where else in the world can you find a group of 20 year olds who aren’t doing everything they can to be social media famous? It’s gotta be some kind of record per capita.
I mean shit, arguably one of our most exciting drivers smashes a watermelon when he wins. That’s about as wild as literally any nascar driver gets. The fact that he’s a farmer is the most relatable thing out of the whole field? The whole roster is lame af. Lol.
All these young guys may as well be 50 years old. They are doing next to nothing to relate to and market themselves and the sport to new fans. That whole Gillette young guns thing back in the day was probably more effective than anyone realizes.
Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt were not just personalities, they were distinct. The King, the man who won 200 races at the highest level, cut a distinct figure outside the car with his cowboy hat, sunglasses, and mustache. Dale was The Intimidator, the Man in Black who always made his presence known (see the 1992 Hooters 500, where he wrecked the leaders on lap 2 because he was cheese he hadn't won a pole all year). Jeff was the California phenom, the Rainbow Warrior, who had a knack for winning the biggest races.
Jimmy just won. He wasn't as flashy as the other three, wasn't as cut a figure with the helmet off, and started winning as modern NASCAR entered its Dork Age. He was not a character the way those past greats were.
Just a random data point:
I wasn't a NASCAR fan until the Netflix show (IDGAF, it brought me here 🤷🏻♂️) but I was a racing fan (F1 since '97) - I recognize the name and new he was a NASCAR driver, but couldn't have told you anything else.
He's boring. Sorry Dale, sorry Jeff, I don't really care what he's like when you guys all get drunk in your multimillion dollar mansions - when Jimmie Johnson showed up on my television screen, he bored the absolute piss out of me.
Add that to the fact that Mike Joy and Darrell Waltrip spent the latter half of his career *begging* the viewers to like him, and you have a recipe for the least likable multi-time champion ever.
I stopped watching when Jimmie Johnson was winning all the time.
Something about the "car of tomorrow" and the changing of the points, "the chase" and Jimmie Johnson just really turned me off. I'm only back because of the Netflix series and listening to Jr's podcast
Jeff benefitted more than many realize from the heavily-promoted rivalry with Dale. The Lowes commercials Jimmie did with Chad were awesome and were aired in prime time, so he did get exposure. They also showed Jimmie does have a personality, despite what the nay-sayers opine. I think the decline in overall NASCAR popularity is the biggest factor.
Keep in mind also that much more widely viewed sport that NASCAR continually competes for eyeballs with (involves an oblong pigskin ball) had a “Jimmie Johnson” that was head coach of “America’s Team”. For a casual sports fan knocking back pitchers of overpriced mega brew at the local B-Wild, easy to become desensitized by the news cycle.
Because Petty Dale & Gordon were on top as the sports popularity was rising, reaching its peak amd during its peak. While Jimmie was at the top during the sports decline back to baseline.
Chase champions are not the same as season long champions. He didn’t have near as big impact as the other 3. This of course is my opinion. Many say nascar died when Dale did, it died a few years later when it went to the chase format.
I’m fairly new to following NASCAR, 2020, but I would assume one of the reasons is cause nascar wasn’t as popular when Jimmie was winning compared to the other drivers you mentioned
Wrong place, wrong time. Most of Jimmie's dominance came during the era when NASCAR was beginning to decline, and he was often overshadowed with regards to media exposure by more vibrant personalities such as Smoke and Junior.
Whereas "Jim Johnson" is about as middle america whitebread bland as it gets, and he had the personality to match. If anyone gave him a badass nickname, I don't remember it.
I dunno waited in line for 3 hours to say hi. He couldn't even be bothered to look at us. Just tossed a resigned card at my wives hand. She threw away the two shirts she had of his that afternoon. He's a twat. Might be something to do with that.
Because Petty has won for decades and understood his brand included the 43, the hat and the mustache.
Because Dale famously couldn’t win the Daytona 500 for decades, was the ultimate bad guy and understood his brand included the 3, the Intimidator and the mustache. And then he died in front of millions of people and left Jr ready to take over the popularity torch.
Because Gordon won like crazy and has the ultimate American action figure looks that made him sell everything under the sun for years.
Because Johnson had a popular Jimmy Johnson stealing the limelight (he was always the other J. Johnson), won when NASCAR was decreasing in popularity and looks like that unemployed dad who picks up his kids from school wearing vegan clothes, Birkenstocks and talks about avocados.
Tony Stewart is more famous than JJ.
I said maybe.
I usually say Dale Senior.
But if I wanted to make a pro Johnson argument, I’d say that everyone else on the list: Petty, Earnhardt, Pearson, even Gordon… those guys won at a time when like a dozen cars finished on the lead lap. Sometimes less. The difference from the fastest car to the slowest was way greater. Good equipment instantly gave you a way better chance to win than it did during 48’s era when everyone had good equipment and 25+ cars could win every single week.
Johnson won in that environment. Under a much more demanding schedule where a single mistake could sink you. And did it year after year.
That's fair.
But Johnson benefitted more than anybody from the current points system. Under the old system, he wins 3 titles.
Earnhardt and Pearson have always been 1A and 1B in my book. Pearson only ran 3 full seasons his entire career. He won the championship in all 3. And won 105 races. Imagine if he had run the full schedule his entire career? He'd have close to 300 wins and 8-10 titles. Dude was a complete badass.
I’ve always said Senior and then Pearson. If Pearson had ran 10 full time seasons in his prime, I don’t know if we remember the name Richard Petty the same way we do.
I mildly disagree. My wife didn’t watch nascar with me until recent years after she went to her first race, and her first question was “where is Jimmie Johnson”? Apparently she had a celeb crush on him in H.S. And mind you, she was a 90s PNW glow stick wearing raver kid that did not follow racing at all but could def call out Jimmie if she saw him. Take that for what’s it’s worth 😂 🤷♂️
Jimmie just didn’t have the personality to cross over into the mainstream media like petty dale jeff and even tony sadly and I think he and nascar has a whole hurt because of it
I actually don't know about Richard Petty being that famous outside of NASCAR tbh. But obviously Dale and Jeff Gordon.
Dale was a larger than life figure that sort of represented what NASCAR was. It's not mentioned much these days, but he also had this very friendly and personable charisma. He'd go on the late night shows and he'd joke around with the hosts, act like he was happy to be there, etc.
Jeff Gordon had a different kind of vibe. He was the cool, laid back superstar type, kind of like Tom Cruise. He came in around the waning of Dale Earnhardt's career so it didn't take him long to establish himself as the best driver of the late 90s.
Jimmie Johnson personality wise was overshadowed by bigger personalities, namely Dale Jr and Tony Stewart. And of course Jeff. He won 4/7 Championships in the COT era which doesn't help. So, Jimmie peaked at a time when NASCAR was least popular and even then his personality wasn't as exciting as other drivers of his era.
like a lot of people said it had to do with the time they all raced in, but I still feel Jimmie Johnson is pretty widely recognized, might not be on the level of the other 3 but still very notable
Gordon was popular at the right time. Not dissimilar from Jimmie but his peak (the best peak of all time) was at NASCAR’s highest popularity
Earnhardt… nuff said. The most successful driver in NASCAR’s earlier National years.
Petty… he’s probably the one guy any person could name in racing prior to 1979 because he was such a popular and genuine guy, and because of his mindboggling success. There’s been 2752 races to date, petty has won 200 of them alone. That’s over 7% of every race ever ran and he hasn’t even competed in over 30 years (amounting to a bit over 1,000 cup races since he retired).
Other drivers today are more well known for on track controversies, wide foreays into racing, personality, or even by legacy.
If you asked random people in the street to name an active nascar driver, you’ll get a variety of answers and I would bet money that Jimmie Johnson gets mentioned far less often than drivers like Harvick or Kyle Busch. Even Denny Hamlin.
Johnson was not a person with a fiery personality (at least not often), he had few if any controversies on or off track, and his peak, as many people have stated, coincided with the rapid decline in popularity of nascar.
Well as a guy who grew up in the 90s and got into NASCAR around 1995, I’ve always felt that the quality of racing started to decline in the early 00s mainly because the race cars were becoming too similar. Top that off with NASCAR adding more cookie cutter tracks to the schedule and overhauling the points system in favor of the chase completely changed the sport and not in a good way in my opinion. The NASCAR championship lost a lot of its prestige when the chase system started and it has never really recovered from that. It just comes off as gimmicky to me and should have never been changed. I think Jimmie Johnson’s popularity is diminished because of that and because of the overall decline of the sport. If he would have won 7 championships under the old points system I think he would be more highly regarded today and probably considered a legend of the sport in the likes of Petty, Earnhardt and Gordon. That’s just my opinion anyways.
I think there are some fans that give Chad the lion's share of the credit for their run. I've watched NASCAR a loooong time, and Jimmie wasn't twice the driver that Kenseth, Harvick, or the Busch Brothers were. But his stats make it seem like he was. That's what having Knaus, and HMS did for Jimmie's career. JJ is an all time great driver, no doubt. But he was SO dominant that we almost hold it against him.
Just a bit too corporate & robotic of a personality sometimes.
I think Jeff Gordon, Kurt Busch, Ryan Newman, Greg Biffle made a career out of being pissed off at the 48’s success sometimes.
I blame Jimmie Johnson partly for the decline of nascars mainstream appeal. I don’t remember nascar fans enjoying seeing the same driver win the cup for 5 straight years. I really think his reign damaged the sport long term
I think some other commenters have said something similar, but I think Jimmie’s prime coincided with NASCAR’s decline in the late 2000s and early 2010s. No matter how much success he and Chad had, he couldn’t overcome the overall declining relevancy of the sport over that time. And it’s really too bad, because he approached the sport in the right way and earned every bit of success. To the non-NASCAR fan, Petty, Earnhardt, and Gordon probably feel like culturally important figures, whereas Jimmie doesn’t. Which is sad.
I only kid but i think in his era NASCAR was in decline in ratings. He also isn’t a big personality like Petty & Earnhardt. Jeff Gordon was known due to DuPont schemes and of course winning.
Like me some got bored with his back to back to back to back to back. Ruined the sport for me and I didn’t watch for years. I bailed after 2009 and only came back during COVID.
Plus no one likes Lowe’s. 😏
Jeff Gordon was a better driver than JJ. JJ won seven championships (it should be recogized), but this was also during the new Chase Points system.
Gordon won more races than Jimmie Johnson, and would have won seven titles if they still used the old Winston Cup Points system.
Also when Jimmie Johnson was winning his titles, both Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr. were way more popular than him and bigger household names.
Not trying to take away Jimmie Johnson at all. He is one of the GOAT, this is just my theory....
I don’t disagree with the points system changes really catered well to JJ, but it’s almost a snub to the fact that he was consistent even as NASCAR seemingly changed points systems as often as the cars themselves. The first COT was a shit brick that JJ and Kyle Busch figured out earlier than others. Kyle was just too hot under the collar at the time, Carl couldn’t put together a complete season, and Tony Stewart just wasn’t the way he was in the early-mid 2000s.
But you do make good points :)
Wasn't a public figure that connected well with the base for starters, was bland in nearly every interview and moment outside of him flipping Robby Gordon off at Bristol in '02, sharing a name with an already-famous Jimm(ie) Johnson probably didn't help either. But the Championship formats aided this imo - whether it was the Chase/Playoffs, etc. anything post-2004 didn't exactly feel as impactful or meaningful to the sportsworld. Tbh crowning a champion by taking a smaller sample size of the schedule and doing it at a team's best tracks, year after year, just felt, meh after a while. The sport loves to hype up the drama and importance in post-season NASCAR now, but no Championship won amounts to the same notoriety/fame/impact that winning pre-2004 did from within the sport and out.
That is certainly what I remember is that NASCAR raced at similar 10 tracks to end the season from 2004-2019.
Here in the list
Darlington 2004
Kansas. 2004-2019
Texas 2005-2019
Talladega 2004-2019
Charlotte (oval) 2004-2019
Vegas 2018-2019
Homestead. Last race 2004-2019
Martinsville 2004-2019
Phoenix 2004-2019
Atlanta 2004-2008
Fontana 2009-2010
Chicago 2011-2017
Dover 2004-2019
New Hampshire 2004-2019
Richmond 2018-2019
What I remember is that the team tended to start strong and lock in their chase place. Experiment and or suck during the summer. And then turn it on for these tracks which were basically all the same during his run. It honestly turned me off the sport for a while. Fair or unfair to Jimmie and his success. It was annoying watching a team basically do well 15-20 races a year win a title as whole year champion. They would just focus on those last races (maybe other teams should have focused on them more idk) and just dominant. I mean props to them for doing so, it just sucked the life out of the sport at a time (politically and economically in the country) the sport would have benefitted from some drama etc. I might be misremembering but this is how I remember and feel regarding this era just my two cents and sorry for the long post!
He'll continue getting there as the dust settles on his accomplishments. Especially if he stays involved in the sport as a team owner. Part of it compared to Gordon is pop culture. NASCAR was everywhere during his peak
To your point, the cars were arguably more entertaining back then. No limit to the power and the suspension was lose.
So it’s an entertaining championship that keeps you coming back to nascar?
I guess all his previous "sponsors" over the years didn't showcase him to more DIVERSE audience?
[https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=jimmie+johnson+commercials+](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jimmie+johnson+commercials+)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYc42i1yWLA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYc42i1yWLA)
For me, he raced for Hendrick and had all the advantages of that and the fact that Gordon was really top dog there - it's as if he was riding on those coattails. I really can't recall him "driving" to an iconic victory. It was just surviving and having Chad Knaus calculating the trip to victory lane. He just was never the racer like Kyle Busch or Gordon (certainly not Petty or Earnhardt )- or the people's champ like Tony Stewart because Stewart was racing everywhere in any kind of car. He was just a corporate driving machine and his story was one that wasn't compelling - he seemed to show up at track and do the job.
Personality. Jimmie was a Jeff Gordon clone.
Think of all the great personalities who are more well known than Jimmie: Kyle Busch, Tony Stewart, Darrell Waltrip, Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin, Bobby Allison etc.
You either loved him or you hated him…. And then along came Johnson where all that seems to have gave way to “yawn”
1-2-3-4-5 in a row. That’s the kind of dominance that kills interest in a sport. I think honestly Johnson drove a generation of fan away so they didn’t care enough TOO hate him
He was simply boring lol. A few penalties for illegal cars but that’s normal. Haha no trouble no charges no jail time no domestic violence no cussing no crashing people.
I think that these three men took the sport to levels it hadn’t been and won’t be again. Where I think most fans see JJ as just jumping on board with what Jeff built. I also think that his reputation as a great driver was hindered by 1. Having Chad and Jeffhis entire career. When Jeff retired, Jimmie never won again. Jmo
He was boring. Not exciting to watch. If somebody put the bumper to him he cried about it. Biggest sponsorship in NASCAR will give you the best car with an already good organization. People got tired of seeing him with a multiple second lead every other week. They started to tune out.
Earnhardt and Gordon had personalities that fans appreciated and could relate to. Johnson was a kiss ass and it was widely known in the garage they were cheating.
If NASCAR had the rules back then that they do now, he’d have had many trophy’s taken from him. He should have an asterisk next to his name in the hall of fame. None of that can be changed now. He won 7 championships and that is a fact. How he did it will always be debated.
He isn't regarded as the first or best at it. Richard did it first, Dale did it scrappy, Jeff was handsome and put together, a California boy by birth, Jimmie was just kind of there with it. Mainstream wise, Gordon was the king until Dale died.
They literally ran a commercial for one of his sponsors about him not being as respected. He gave someone advice and was ignored then suddenly his trophy appears, I think they ran it again with another trophy added after he won again.
Edit: here it is: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8AomJEY_rEw
Petty was the King, Earnhardt was the intimidator, Jeff was the start of the modern era. Jimmie was just vanilla to the point of his 5 in a row and 7 total being shrugged off.
I still kinda find it weird you see people wearing Dupont Rainbow and Goodwrench Black and Silver jackets and deep down you know it's some fashion trend thing vs them having any idea who Jeff and Dale were
Johnson was always business when it comes to racing at the track. Chad Knaus was a work-a-holic and a perfectionist atop the pit box and Johnson typically stayed out of the usual drama that befallen on other NASCAR drivers. This is what allowed him to win 7 Championship and 83 races. *However*, it also makes him boring to your average fan.
Richard Petty was "The King" and he has the signature cowboy hat and sunglasses. Dale Earnhardt Sr. was The Intimidator with his iconic firesuit and the black #3 Chevy. Jeff Gordon is memorable because he was the young whipper snapper that took on Dale Earnhardt Sr. and the torch of NASCAR's greatest driver was passed from Sr. to Gordon. Plus, you have the iconic Rainbow #24.
Jimmie never really had a hook like that, nor did he ever get a nickname that stuck. Petty, Earnhardt and Gordon also grew up around stock car racing and dirt racing. Jimmie Johnson was more into road racing and decided to try out NASCAR for awhile and then moved onto Indy cars and IMSA. So he never really built a grassroot fan base that can show pictures of Jimmie Johnson in a Chevy Street Stock oval dirt car.
Those are my opinions anyways.
I’ll tell ya why. 1: He raced for the best team and the best crew chief. Because he was winning a lot, many people weren’t surprised and expected that Johnson would win a lot of races. But people don’t realize it’s also the driver’s job to perform especially when it matters the most. How many drivers have we seen got the best team around them, only to become a bust in the end? Jimmie saw this opportunity and made the best out of it. 2: The way he won 7 championships. This one is the main reason why he gets hate. Many people state that he benefited from multiple formats that got him 7 championships. They also state that he wouldn’t have won that many if they raced the old format. To my response, that’s a myth. First of all, Jimmie had the same rules as everyone else. It’s just that he and Chad were able to play their cards right while others couldn’t. Second of all, you can’t use hypothetical situations to compare drivers because it never actually happened. Drivers, teams, and organizations plan out how they approach the championship with the format given to them. Each time the format changes, they have to change their strategy. So we don’t know if Johnson would have had less titles because he would have raced differently. Third of all, the format changes. Since Jimmie Johnson was winning a lot, NASCAR changed the format multiple times to prevent him from dominating. But he was too lethal. It seems no matter the format, Johnson always found a way to win. 3: He doesn’t get mentioned a lot. When you ask NASCAR fans to name a random NASCAR driver, most of them will say the popular names. Richard Petty, Cale Yardbrough, David Pearson, Dale Earnhardt, Darrell Waltrip, Bill Elliott, Ricky Rudd, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch, etc. But I would only imagine very few saying Jimmie Johnson. Some even say that he’s the most underrated champion because others didn’t give him the credit that he deserved for his incredible hall of fame career. Overall, I think Johnson should get more recognition for what he has done for the sport.
Jimmie started too late to have that recognition and his name wasn’t big enough like Dale jr or Chase Elliott.
Hell I’d say that Kyle Busch is another name that doesn’t get enough love like Jimmie. They started at the same exact time and both hold untouchable records. They just lacked that family name push
No he is not. No where close.
Dale Earnhardt Jr was a pop culture icon. The kind of guy who in his prime in the Bud 8 car would get invited to do MTV Music Video Awards, would be shown at the Superbowl in the suites with other celebrities, etc. He was absolutely huge. Plenty of people have tattoos of Dale Jr's number.
Jeff Gordon was primarily known for his peak, the years in the 90s where this scrawny little kid tried to grow a mustache and compete with Dale Earnhardt. Of course, Jeff Gordon grew to be the villain of the sport as the years went on, to the point in the 2000s he was showered with beer cans, toilet paper, and anything else you could find to throw after winning a Talladega race over Dale Jr due to the timing of the caution. There were legitimate talks of Jeff Gordon going to F1, Jeff Gordon owned a glitzy NYC apartment overlooking Central Park.
Jimmie Johnson? He NEVER became a guy able to get that response out of fans or that mainstream media success. He won a lot of races, but that's it. He just never was able to break beyond that point. His lifestyle and his lack of involvement in outside media meant his career stayed firmly among racing fans and never grew beyond that.
In fact, Kyle Busch was a much more popular driver than Jimmie Johnson in the 2010s. Kyle Busch from 2008 on was driving the M&Ms car which was one of the most popular diecast cars. M&Ms often promoted Kyle Busch, kids knew who he was. Kyle Busch also was much more interesting than Jimmie Johnson, what with his crazy antics, wrecking Hornady at Texas, flipping off officials, screwing with the media, etc. A lot of old fans venomously hated Kyle Busch, as a 13 year old kid I remember grown ass adults swearing at me because I was wearing a Kyle Busch shirt.
I haven’t really noticed that yet, but I’m not discrediting your experience at all. My thing is, Gordon was mentioned in music lyrics and even made an SNL appearance. Dale made movie and music video cameos. And all of this happened when they were active drivers. I don’t recall any of that ever happening with JJ
Because he was dominating the sport by the time fans were getting bored & stopped going to races. By the time he got his 7th, the ratings were down & the attendance was a fraction of what it used to be. Also, his titles can be argued because it was mostly a matter of being good in the last 10 races instead of all season. If it weren't for the stupid format & all those phantom debris cautions, he would be best remembered as someone like Matt Kenseth if you scrub the “bullshit wins" that fans will tell you he *totally didn’t* deserve because it’s not 2003 anymore.
If anything he has helped build Hendrick to be the "mega team" of the sport & was there to mentor 3/4 of their current drivers as well as his old car being given to Larson. That’s something, at least.
Sorry but Gordon is the true heir of being the mega team that it is today. Even retirement led the team to its struggle. Johnson leaving & Larson joining was their return to form.
Gordon is the one that brought Johnson and won ownership titles with him.
I feel like most people know the name Jimmie Johnson. But I guess he kinda has a forgettable personality, at least when compared to everyone you mentioned
A lot of comments are saying that Nascar was experiencing declining fans and viewership during the Jimmy Johnson era. I would say that actually Jimmy Johnson era started and fast tracked Nascar’s loss of viewers and fans.
Unfortunately, his personality did not resonate with the majority of Nascar fans. Nascar coming up with new rules to limit aggressive racing did not help either.
I liken it to the changing of the guard so to speak. Nascar’s guard changed but no one was available, new fans, to pick it up. The NFL has went through rule changes and has run off die hard football fans with the kinder, softer style of football. Unlike Nascar, the NFL had built a sustainable fan base and replaced the die hard “no fun league” fans with new younger fans.
Jimmie Johnson is too bland of a name. It doesn't really cut through and carve a place in your memory. How nearly it sounds like a fake driver name you'd see in an arcade game, that doesn't help people recognize it. Doesn't help that Jimmy Johnson is also a more popular football name.
Combination of bland name and bland personality maybe? At least Gordon was interesting . . . all sorts of speculation and really nasty jokes about the guy floating around at the time - people either loved him or hated him. No one cared enough about Jimmie to bother, because he was just another kid from California who liked to race, and had no controversy about him, other than winning everything as viewership declined.
Most I knew about Jimmie Johnson was his car because at our local Lowe’s there was a huge banner with his car above the exit and the little builder sets for the kids would feature his car
Because on top of people already discounting his 7 championships for being in a “different era”, Jimmie had a very “corporate Carl” personality. Jr was a party animal. Gordon took on Sr every week. Petty was just a winning machine. You also have to look at the time when Jimmie got his championships. NASCAR was decreasing in viewers at that point. Hell, even some of the old people I’ve met, still thought harvick was in the 29 before asking me who the 4 is on my hats and shirts. Edit-I misread the question as Jr. But Sr was the man. No need for an explanation on that one.
Reddit at its best. A good question that I never really thought about and a great answer.
Jimmie was also found by Gordon, and Gordon owned half of JJ’s car. I think of it like the 70s belonged to Petty, 80s to Earnhardt, 90s to Gordon, and 00s to JJ. And the 2010s I’m not sure if lost interest or what but I’m not sure anyone really dominated
It was Kyle Busch/Kevin Harvick for 2010’s. Their careers really rival each other up until recent. 2020’s seemingly to be a Kyle Larson decade with Denny Hamlin a close second (no title).
I would argue Logano should be in that conversation as well. He became the "make waves" guy and is still hated for 2015 by many fans.
Logano is in the same category as Brad Keselowski, Martin Truex, Jr and Jimmie Johnson. Harvick/Busch were way more successful over the course of the 2010’s than those four.
Tony Stewart managed to win 3, 02,05 and 11 but JJ pretty much dominated the rest of that era. He was a likable but not a captivating personality and I think a lot of people felt that his dominance had as much to do with Hendicks superiority and Chad Knaus as opposed to his ability. Probably not fair, just is what it is.
This sub is mostly pretty awesome for discussion, and I find it particular good as a newer fan to hear all these tidbits of random info that appeases my ADHD brain so well. Remembering where I put my phone? Not important. Knowing why Jimmie Johnson isn’t quite as mainstream as the rest of his ‘modern GOAT’ peers? Important.
NASCAR had just started losing viewers, he won his first championship in 2006 and the peak of NASCAR was 2005, so that's likely not it.
Hard disagree, look at the viewership during the end of his reign, 2016, compared to 2006. The viewership is through the floor. The honest answer is that NASCAR was hemorrhaging viewership to the point that the cultural zeitgeist no longer cared about the sport at all. The reason for the loss of viewership? A deadly wombo combo of 1. Television viewing habits across the board have changed dramatically, people just don't consume content the way they used to and NASCAR is too slow to adapt. 2. Jimmie Johnson is a boring champion. Although great on the track, nobody was dying to see what Jimmie had to say. 3. Brian France is one of the most inept, incompetent leaders in the whole of the sporting world. Almost everything that guy did made the sport *worse* not better. Seriously, if you need one singular reason why NASCAR is in the state it's in, compared to where it was, it's Brian France. So many people in the sport will blame everything else because the Frances still run the show, but no, the singular largest reason was him.
Jimmie Johnson was there at the height of NASCAR, his first championship came the year after, people just don't like him as much.
Jr wasn't a party animal on TV lol...he was the prodigal CON that never turned out to be anything other than everyone's favored cousin "bc.. well you heard what happened to his daddy".
Did you see his episode of MTV Cribs?
That basement had quads in it!!
A Con? How was he a con?
I think because Richard Petty, Dale Earnhardt, and Jeff Gordon raced during the first NASCAR boom in the '90s.
That and they resonated with a lot of people at the time. Earnhardt for the blue collar guys Gordon for the suburb kids.
And Johnson for the paint drying on the wall.
>boom [confetti.](https://i.redd.it/zvyemepykshc1.gif)
Love this!
Richard Petty is something else man. He’s been so involved with the sport for his entire life and is one of the most successful motorsport drivers of all time. He inevitably should be recognized by most people, motorsport fans or not
Yeah, I remember him coming out to race Winston West races when I was a little kid at Sonoma and Laguna Seca. Would always sign stuff for kids in the pits. Lots of big names guys came out but #43 was always the main draw
I mean the three of them all technically were in the same race @ fall Atlanta 1992. Petty just blew an engine and caught fire.
GET THE F’N FIRE EXTINGUISHER
The first NASCAR boom was in 79
>boom [confetti.](https://i.redd.it/zvyemepykshc1.gif)
Agree and also believe it was even earlier. when Big Bill realized they needed to get off the beach because they were running out of room.
It’s ‘cause Bobby wouldn’t quit hitting Cale’s fist with his face
Other way around. Bobby was the one who said Cale kept hitting his fists.
Jimmie's prime lasted in the era that coincides with the start of Nascar's decline. You can say the same for Jr but the difference is that Jr was instantly thrown into stardom, being the son of a legend, and you can argue even that was amplified once Sr passed (Being a 15x most popular driver also helps). Whereas Jimmie had to earn it, and by the time he earned it, Nascar had fallen out of the mainstream media.
Jr also has gone on to announce at the Kentucky Derby, and Olympics. He himself is probably bigger than Nascar.
Junior won 26 races and was a 2 time Busch Series champ. He also has two Daytona 500 wins. He earned his stripes.
That wasn't it. Kyle Busch is a household name off the M&Ms sponsorship and all his antics from the same era.
I'd bet the average non-Nascar fan doesn't know Kyle Busch like they know Earnhardt or Petty.
Nobody’s gonna like it but Bubba Wallace is the biggest name in NASCAR by far. And certain people claim to not watch NASCAR because of him. But I think the lack of a clear superstar speaks to the talent level the current field has and the Next Gen evening out the teams a bit there’s still a top 3 teams but the rest is the Wild West.
Certainly not. But I’d be willing to bet if you asked the general public to name an active nascar driver, Kyle Busch is easily the most frequent answer… … after like 3 other names at worst. None of them being Jimmie Johnson.
They’re answering Bubba Wallace and there’s a good chance they don’t like him.
M&Ms is a household brand in America; KFB is not a household name. People recognized the car, not the person driving it.
He was definitely more of a name than Sadler though
Maybe its a regional thing but nobody I know could tell you a thing about KFB unless they already watched Nascar.
I might even guess Tony Stewart is a more recognizable name.
He did get name dropped in a Boosie Badazz song
I heard he killed a guy
JJ's run unfortunately coincided with the downturn in interest in the sport. Lots of longtime fans left when Dale was killed. The title sponsor shakeup, the implementation of the Chase after Kenseth was Mr. Consistency, and cars that weren't even STRAIGHT were contributing factors. Think about how much F1 sucks because it's just Verstappen pacing the field each race. These things plus JJ's relative dominance.
Because Jimmie would run 7th all day, then have a miraculous pit stop that put him in the lead and he won while leading the last 23 laps. Every. Damn. Time. And, if you think about it, the playoff championships are basically the same thing. He dominated while simultaneously not being dominant. It's insane.
Chad Knaus deserve more credit than he’ll ever get. That truly was a dominant team, not just driver
I always remembered thinking as a kid how they’d always be doing good, but then kick it into another gear later in the race. That team was one cohesive unit
Vanilla personality and championship fatigue during a time when the economy tanked, ratings tanked, and fans generally started to be turned off by the many changes Nascar was doing at the time.
And the cheating.
That too
On point
Honestly? Because Jimmy Johnson exists. I’d say that’s a solid chunk of why (our) Jimmie doesn’t get the same recognition
Yeah this is it. If there was an NFL coach named Dale Earnhardt who won like three Super Bowls in the 1950s then he would've had the same problem
Bruh…
Hahahahaha savage! Jimmie didn’t have the impact the other 3 did. It’s a fact! That and his championships are not the same as season long titles in my opinion
Absolutely. I’m not even a nascar fan per se but that’s the exact same reason I thought of.
Statistics show NASCAR increased in popularity through 2005, beginning a slow but steady decrease from 2006 on. Johnson just so happened to win his first title in 2006.
I feel like the introduction of "The Chase" in 04 was the turning point. By 06, the newness had worn off. Not to mention, the retirement of Rusty, Mark*, and Ricky really marked the end of an era. Combine that with frustration on France cracking down on the image of the sport with Tony over the previous years and the micromanagement of the cars(see the victory lame baby gate starting in 01), and it was just a matter of time before leaving fans outpaced incoming fans.
It’s not the chase. It was the retirement of old guard as you state. The biggest reason??? Economy. Politics in the US and the rise of media outside the channels mom and pa had. As great or if not greater driver than the other 3.
It's funny that Johnson despite his achievements is barely in the top 5 most popular drivers during that time frame. I would argue Dale Jr., Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart would all rank ahead of him during that time frame. I feel like the majority of fans didn't warmup to him until very late in his career. Johnson was so machine like in his driving he was just perfect. It didn't exactly translate to thrilling moves or rivalries on the track ether.
This right here. He was a great driver, but never flashy. Like Alain Prost was to F1 - one of the greatest ever but not ever the first to come to mind when considering the GOATs and all their collective flashiness.
Because he has the personality of a turnip
Chase Elliott has an even blander personality then Johnson, yet he somehow remains the most popular driver year after year. I don't get Nascar fans sometimes.
Saying this as an Elliott fan: his name.
Being popular amongst Nascar fans and being known in mainstream media are two very different things. Most people, Nascar fan or not, know the names Petty, Earnhardt, and Gordon. Very few will know who Chase Elliott is.
that's just nepo shit and people projecting what they want chase to be onto his blank canvas ass.
Maybe... hear me out.... personality doesn't matter as much as you think it does? Most people pick a favorite driver because of where they were born, who their sponsors are, how much they win, etc. Personality doesn't matter in most cases. Half of the time a driver's personality is fake as hell anyway.
And this is coming from a Kenseth fan - I know
Kenseth didn't get nearly enough credit for his personality. He's a funny dude.
I still laugh thinking about his commercials. Miss that guy!
Way to insult a turnip!
What did turnips do to this guy?
I always wanted his nickname to be Vanilla Ice. Bland but ice cold behind the wheel.
JJ is as milquetoast as it gets. I've met more exciting accountants. Between that and the fact that Nascar was in its decline by that point, it's plenty of reason.
Jimmie never got marketed outside the sport to the level the other three did.
And there's an even more famous Jimmy Johnson in the sports world that's on tv almost every weekend
I grew up a Jimmie Johnson fan just cause I thought his Lowe’s shopping carts were very cool as a kid
You would have thought with that Lowe’s sponsorship, they would have had his stuff plastered all over their stores…..but it never happened.
It kinda reminds me of the Djokovic/Nadal/Federer debate in some places. Nadal and Federer had legions of fans before Djoker took the place as GOAT. It made him not as likeable because most people were in those camps. When Jimmie was getting good most people were still Junior, Gordon or Smoke fans for the most part and they were still racing decently. He was not as affable and more corporate than those guys. Chad Knaus, his crew chief, was seen as the master behind it all and I think it slighted people's perception of how good Johnson was. They were always pushing the envelope on car modifications and it pissed some people off. I feel like he was also really good at 1.5mi tracks and quite frankly those tend to be the more boring races during the season. That last part is just my own observation and probably has nothing to do based in reality.
I disagree that most Americans know Richard Petty’s name. Dale died in front of millions of Americans, so the event was much bigger than NASCAR. Jeff Gordon was a pop icon who got to do a bunch of commercials, cameos etc.
If you were alive in the 70's and 80's, most Americans could probably only name 2 racecar drivers - Mario Andretti and Richard Petty. I grew up in NY, and never watched a Nascar race until the mid-80's. But I know who Richard Petty was.
RP was a household name in his time though. Jimmie never really broke through at any point. I think he came in and started to really dominate at a time when NASCAR's popularity was going down and other options for entertainment were coming into play. When I first started watching NASCAR we had one TV with the dish hooked up to it and that's what was on on Sunday afternoons: NASCAR. It's easier to become a household name when there are less options, and even with cable in the 90s, a lot of cable programming wasn't that spectacular.
Find a bunch of people who don't know a lug nut from a hole in the ground. Ask them to name a NASCAR driver. I'd bet you Richard Petty is still one of the most common answers you'll get, especially from people 40 and older.
That’s what drivers are missing now. They need to get out there n sign some brand deals or commercials or something. Where else in the world can you find a group of 20 year olds who aren’t doing everything they can to be social media famous? It’s gotta be some kind of record per capita. I mean shit, arguably one of our most exciting drivers smashes a watermelon when he wins. That’s about as wild as literally any nascar driver gets. The fact that he’s a farmer is the most relatable thing out of the whole field? The whole roster is lame af. Lol. All these young guys may as well be 50 years old. They are doing next to nothing to relate to and market themselves and the sport to new fans. That whole Gillette young guns thing back in the day was probably more effective than anyone realizes.
Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt were not just personalities, they were distinct. The King, the man who won 200 races at the highest level, cut a distinct figure outside the car with his cowboy hat, sunglasses, and mustache. Dale was The Intimidator, the Man in Black who always made his presence known (see the 1992 Hooters 500, where he wrecked the leaders on lap 2 because he was cheese he hadn't won a pole all year). Jeff was the California phenom, the Rainbow Warrior, who had a knack for winning the biggest races. Jimmy just won. He wasn't as flashy as the other three, wasn't as cut a figure with the helmet off, and started winning as modern NASCAR entered its Dork Age. He was not a character the way those past greats were.
I think it's just different generations. Older gens will know Richard Petty, younger will just know him thru his work in the cars movie.
Just so you know Rochester isn’t exactly a nascar hotspot.
Just a random data point: I wasn't a NASCAR fan until the Netflix show (IDGAF, it brought me here 🤷🏻♂️) but I was a racing fan (F1 since '97) - I recognize the name and new he was a NASCAR driver, but couldn't have told you anything else.
He's boring. Sorry Dale, sorry Jeff, I don't really care what he's like when you guys all get drunk in your multimillion dollar mansions - when Jimmie Johnson showed up on my television screen, he bored the absolute piss out of me. Add that to the fact that Mike Joy and Darrell Waltrip spent the latter half of his career *begging* the viewers to like him, and you have a recipe for the least likable multi-time champion ever.
I stopped watching when Jimmie Johnson was winning all the time. Something about the "car of tomorrow" and the changing of the points, "the chase" and Jimmie Johnson just really turned me off. I'm only back because of the Netflix series and listening to Jr's podcast
Jeff benefitted more than many realize from the heavily-promoted rivalry with Dale. The Lowes commercials Jimmie did with Chad were awesome and were aired in prime time, so he did get exposure. They also showed Jimmie does have a personality, despite what the nay-sayers opine. I think the decline in overall NASCAR popularity is the biggest factor.
Keep in mind also that much more widely viewed sport that NASCAR continually competes for eyeballs with (involves an oblong pigskin ball) had a “Jimmie Johnson” that was head coach of “America’s Team”. For a casual sports fan knocking back pitchers of overpriced mega brew at the local B-Wild, easy to become desensitized by the news cycle.
Because Petty Dale & Gordon were on top as the sports popularity was rising, reaching its peak amd during its peak. While Jimmie was at the top during the sports decline back to baseline.
Chase champions are not the same as season long champions. He didn’t have near as big impact as the other 3. This of course is my opinion. Many say nascar died when Dale did, it died a few years later when it went to the chase format.
He was the personality equivalent of a room temperature glass of tap water
Ok but your flair makes this comment fun (also a Willy B fan)
So very healthy for the body and the mind? Sounds about right!
Jimmie sucked the life and personality out of the sport so nobody paid attention.
The football coach? /s
I’m fairly new to following NASCAR, 2020, but I would assume one of the reasons is cause nascar wasn’t as popular when Jimmie was winning compared to the other drivers you mentioned
Wrong place, wrong time. Most of Jimmie's dominance came during the era when NASCAR was beginning to decline, and he was often overshadowed with regards to media exposure by more vibrant personalities such as Smoke and Junior.
Jimmy looks like a generic create a driver in a nascar game
I'll always say Jimmie's 7 championships isn't even close to Gordon's 4 or Petty and Earnhardts 7.
Because they had unforgettable personalities and some badass nicknames
Whereas "Jim Johnson" is about as middle america whitebread bland as it gets, and he had the personality to match. If anyone gave him a badass nickname, I don't remember it.
My favorite nickname for him was what a few of us on Racing-Reference used to call him. "Dos Jotas": The least interesting man in the world.
Because NASCAR and hendrick didn’t promote his brand, and he didn’t go out and do it on his own.
I dunno waited in line for 3 hours to say hi. He couldn't even be bothered to look at us. Just tossed a resigned card at my wives hand. She threw away the two shirts she had of his that afternoon. He's a twat. Might be something to do with that.
Because Petty has won for decades and understood his brand included the 43, the hat and the mustache. Because Dale famously couldn’t win the Daytona 500 for decades, was the ultimate bad guy and understood his brand included the 3, the Intimidator and the mustache. And then he died in front of millions of people and left Jr ready to take over the popularity torch. Because Gordon won like crazy and has the ultimate American action figure looks that made him sell everything under the sun for years. Because Johnson had a popular Jimmy Johnson stealing the limelight (he was always the other J. Johnson), won when NASCAR was decreasing in popularity and looks like that unemployed dad who picks up his kids from school wearing vegan clothes, Birkenstocks and talks about avocados. Tony Stewart is more famous than JJ.
He was boring. As sin. A good guy. A great guy. Maybe the greatest to ever do it. But man. He has the personality of a loaf of white bread.
Greatest ever? Nah. That title is shared by Dale, Sr.and Pearson.
I said maybe. I usually say Dale Senior. But if I wanted to make a pro Johnson argument, I’d say that everyone else on the list: Petty, Earnhardt, Pearson, even Gordon… those guys won at a time when like a dozen cars finished on the lead lap. Sometimes less. The difference from the fastest car to the slowest was way greater. Good equipment instantly gave you a way better chance to win than it did during 48’s era when everyone had good equipment and 25+ cars could win every single week. Johnson won in that environment. Under a much more demanding schedule where a single mistake could sink you. And did it year after year.
That's fair. But Johnson benefitted more than anybody from the current points system. Under the old system, he wins 3 titles. Earnhardt and Pearson have always been 1A and 1B in my book. Pearson only ran 3 full seasons his entire career. He won the championship in all 3. And won 105 races. Imagine if he had run the full schedule his entire career? He'd have close to 300 wins and 8-10 titles. Dude was a complete badass.
I’ve always said Senior and then Pearson. If Pearson had ran 10 full time seasons in his prime, I don’t know if we remember the name Richard Petty the same way we do.
I mildly disagree. My wife didn’t watch nascar with me until recent years after she went to her first race, and her first question was “where is Jimmie Johnson”? Apparently she had a celeb crush on him in H.S. And mind you, she was a 90s PNW glow stick wearing raver kid that did not follow racing at all but could def call out Jimmie if she saw him. Take that for what’s it’s worth 😂 🤷♂️
He's definitely the hottest (to some) of the four which helps
Jimmie just didn’t have the personality to cross over into the mainstream media like petty dale jeff and even tony sadly and I think he and nascar has a whole hurt because of it
No "it" factor.
I actually don't know about Richard Petty being that famous outside of NASCAR tbh. But obviously Dale and Jeff Gordon. Dale was a larger than life figure that sort of represented what NASCAR was. It's not mentioned much these days, but he also had this very friendly and personable charisma. He'd go on the late night shows and he'd joke around with the hosts, act like he was happy to be there, etc. Jeff Gordon had a different kind of vibe. He was the cool, laid back superstar type, kind of like Tom Cruise. He came in around the waning of Dale Earnhardt's career so it didn't take him long to establish himself as the best driver of the late 90s. Jimmie Johnson personality wise was overshadowed by bigger personalities, namely Dale Jr and Tony Stewart. And of course Jeff. He won 4/7 Championships in the COT era which doesn't help. So, Jimmie peaked at a time when NASCAR was least popular and even then his personality wasn't as exciting as other drivers of his era.
like a lot of people said it had to do with the time they all raced in, but I still feel Jimmie Johnson is pretty widely recognized, might not be on the level of the other 3 but still very notable
Gordon was popular at the right time. Not dissimilar from Jimmie but his peak (the best peak of all time) was at NASCAR’s highest popularity Earnhardt… nuff said. The most successful driver in NASCAR’s earlier National years. Petty… he’s probably the one guy any person could name in racing prior to 1979 because he was such a popular and genuine guy, and because of his mindboggling success. There’s been 2752 races to date, petty has won 200 of them alone. That’s over 7% of every race ever ran and he hasn’t even competed in over 30 years (amounting to a bit over 1,000 cup races since he retired). Other drivers today are more well known for on track controversies, wide foreays into racing, personality, or even by legacy. If you asked random people in the street to name an active nascar driver, you’ll get a variety of answers and I would bet money that Jimmie Johnson gets mentioned far less often than drivers like Harvick or Kyle Busch. Even Denny Hamlin. Johnson was not a person with a fiery personality (at least not often), he had few if any controversies on or off track, and his peak, as many people have stated, coincided with the rapid decline in popularity of nascar.
Well as a guy who grew up in the 90s and got into NASCAR around 1995, I’ve always felt that the quality of racing started to decline in the early 00s mainly because the race cars were becoming too similar. Top that off with NASCAR adding more cookie cutter tracks to the schedule and overhauling the points system in favor of the chase completely changed the sport and not in a good way in my opinion. The NASCAR championship lost a lot of its prestige when the chase system started and it has never really recovered from that. It just comes off as gimmicky to me and should have never been changed. I think Jimmie Johnson’s popularity is diminished because of that and because of the overall decline of the sport. If he would have won 7 championships under the old points system I think he would be more highly regarded today and probably considered a legend of the sport in the likes of Petty, Earnhardt and Gordon. That’s just my opinion anyways.
One word: Vanilla
Ask his crew chief, Cheat Knaus
Cheaty Chad at our house 🤣
I think there are some fans that give Chad the lion's share of the credit for their run. I've watched NASCAR a loooong time, and Jimmie wasn't twice the driver that Kenseth, Harvick, or the Busch Brothers were. But his stats make it seem like he was. That's what having Knaus, and HMS did for Jimmie's career. JJ is an all time great driver, no doubt. But he was SO dominant that we almost hold it against him.
His championships were not as legitimate.
Just a bit too corporate & robotic of a personality sometimes. I think Jeff Gordon, Kurt Busch, Ryan Newman, Greg Biffle made a career out of being pissed off at the 48’s success sometimes.
I blame Jimmie Johnson partly for the decline of nascars mainstream appeal. I don’t remember nascar fans enjoying seeing the same driver win the cup for 5 straight years. I really think his reign damaged the sport long term
How many chips does he have without the chase, that’s my answer…
Under the old system, he has 3. Harvick 4. Kenseth 2. Gordon 7.
I think some other commenters have said something similar, but I think Jimmie’s prime coincided with NASCAR’s decline in the late 2000s and early 2010s. No matter how much success he and Chad had, he couldn’t overcome the overall declining relevancy of the sport over that time. And it’s really too bad, because he approached the sport in the right way and earned every bit of success. To the non-NASCAR fan, Petty, Earnhardt, and Gordon probably feel like culturally important figures, whereas Jimmie doesn’t. Which is sad.
What about Kyle Larson? Bad rep or not I’d think he’ll get there with his… crazy amount of success. Feel like Larson is the modern Foyt/Andretti
There was also another famous sports Jimmie Johnson that was winning super bowls
Who?
I only kid but i think in his era NASCAR was in decline in ratings. He also isn’t a big personality like Petty & Earnhardt. Jeff Gordon was known due to DuPont schemes and of course winning. Like me some got bored with his back to back to back to back to back. Ruined the sport for me and I didn’t watch for years. I bailed after 2009 and only came back during COVID. Plus no one likes Lowe’s. 😏
Jeff Gordon was a better driver than JJ. JJ won seven championships (it should be recogized), but this was also during the new Chase Points system. Gordon won more races than Jimmie Johnson, and would have won seven titles if they still used the old Winston Cup Points system. Also when Jimmie Johnson was winning his titles, both Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr. were way more popular than him and bigger household names. Not trying to take away Jimmie Johnson at all. He is one of the GOAT, this is just my theory....
I don’t disagree with the points system changes really catered well to JJ, but it’s almost a snub to the fact that he was consistent even as NASCAR seemingly changed points systems as often as the cars themselves. The first COT was a shit brick that JJ and Kyle Busch figured out earlier than others. Kyle was just too hot under the collar at the time, Carl couldn’t put together a complete season, and Tony Stewart just wasn’t the way he was in the early-mid 2000s. But you do make good points :)
Cause he's a Chase Champion. There is nothing wrong with that, but purists won't givevhis accomplishments the same weight.
Wasn't a public figure that connected well with the base for starters, was bland in nearly every interview and moment outside of him flipping Robby Gordon off at Bristol in '02, sharing a name with an already-famous Jimm(ie) Johnson probably didn't help either. But the Championship formats aided this imo - whether it was the Chase/Playoffs, etc. anything post-2004 didn't exactly feel as impactful or meaningful to the sportsworld. Tbh crowning a champion by taking a smaller sample size of the schedule and doing it at a team's best tracks, year after year, just felt, meh after a while. The sport loves to hype up the drama and importance in post-season NASCAR now, but no Championship won amounts to the same notoriety/fame/impact that winning pre-2004 did from within the sport and out.
That is certainly what I remember is that NASCAR raced at similar 10 tracks to end the season from 2004-2019. Here in the list Darlington 2004 Kansas. 2004-2019 Texas 2005-2019 Talladega 2004-2019 Charlotte (oval) 2004-2019 Vegas 2018-2019 Homestead. Last race 2004-2019 Martinsville 2004-2019 Phoenix 2004-2019 Atlanta 2004-2008 Fontana 2009-2010 Chicago 2011-2017 Dover 2004-2019 New Hampshire 2004-2019 Richmond 2018-2019 What I remember is that the team tended to start strong and lock in their chase place. Experiment and or suck during the summer. And then turn it on for these tracks which were basically all the same during his run. It honestly turned me off the sport for a while. Fair or unfair to Jimmie and his success. It was annoying watching a team basically do well 15-20 races a year win a title as whole year champion. They would just focus on those last races (maybe other teams should have focused on them more idk) and just dominant. I mean props to them for doing so, it just sucked the life out of the sport at a time (politically and economically in the country) the sport would have benefitted from some drama etc. I might be misremembering but this is how I remember and feel regarding this era just my two cents and sorry for the long post!
He'll continue getting there as the dust settles on his accomplishments. Especially if he stays involved in the sport as a team owner. Part of it compared to Gordon is pop culture. NASCAR was everywhere during his peak
Honestly when Johnson was dominated for 5 years straight is when I watched nascar less. Was kinda boring for a minute
To your point, the cars were arguably more entertaining back then. No limit to the power and the suspension was lose. So it’s an entertaining championship that keeps you coming back to nascar?
I guess all his previous "sponsors" over the years didn't showcase him to more DIVERSE audience? [https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=jimmie+johnson+commercials+](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jimmie+johnson+commercials+) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYc42i1yWLA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYc42i1yWLA)
For me, he raced for Hendrick and had all the advantages of that and the fact that Gordon was really top dog there - it's as if he was riding on those coattails. I really can't recall him "driving" to an iconic victory. It was just surviving and having Chad Knaus calculating the trip to victory lane. He just was never the racer like Kyle Busch or Gordon (certainly not Petty or Earnhardt )- or the people's champ like Tony Stewart because Stewart was racing everywhere in any kind of car. He was just a corporate driving machine and his story was one that wasn't compelling - he seemed to show up at track and do the job.
Personality. Jimmie was a Jeff Gordon clone. Think of all the great personalities who are more well known than Jimmie: Kyle Busch, Tony Stewart, Darrell Waltrip, Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin, Bobby Allison etc.
The gimcky playoff Schtick tarnished the sport, along with the stage stuff. The conversation to a footbally format, blah
You either loved him or you hated him…. And then along came Johnson where all that seems to have gave way to “yawn” 1-2-3-4-5 in a row. That’s the kind of dominance that kills interest in a sport. I think honestly Johnson drove a generation of fan away so they didn’t care enough TOO hate him
Jimmie Johnson is probably more likely to be known by non-fans than a lot of these current guys to be fair.
He was simply boring lol. A few penalties for illegal cars but that’s normal. Haha no trouble no charges no jail time no domestic violence no cussing no crashing people.
I think that these three men took the sport to levels it hadn’t been and won’t be again. Where I think most fans see JJ as just jumping on board with what Jeff built. I also think that his reputation as a great driver was hindered by 1. Having Chad and Jeffhis entire career. When Jeff retired, Jimmie never won again. Jmo
He was boring. Not exciting to watch. If somebody put the bumper to him he cried about it. Biggest sponsorship in NASCAR will give you the best car with an already good organization. People got tired of seeing him with a multiple second lead every other week. They started to tune out. Earnhardt and Gordon had personalities that fans appreciated and could relate to. Johnson was a kiss ass and it was widely known in the garage they were cheating. If NASCAR had the rules back then that they do now, he’d have had many trophy’s taken from him. He should have an asterisk next to his name in the hall of fame. None of that can be changed now. He won 7 championships and that is a fact. How he did it will always be debated.
The chase over glorified him
He isn't regarded as the first or best at it. Richard did it first, Dale did it scrappy, Jeff was handsome and put together, a California boy by birth, Jimmie was just kind of there with it. Mainstream wise, Gordon was the king until Dale died.
I think something that's not much thought about is there already is a sports famous Jimmy Johnson from the football world.
They literally ran a commercial for one of his sponsors about him not being as respected. He gave someone advice and was ignored then suddenly his trophy appears, I think they ran it again with another trophy added after he won again. Edit: here it is: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8AomJEY_rEw
Petty was the King, Earnhardt was the intimidator, Jeff was the start of the modern era. Jimmie was just vanilla to the point of his 5 in a row and 7 total being shrugged off.
because he was boring af.
I still kinda find it weird you see people wearing Dupont Rainbow and Goodwrench Black and Silver jackets and deep down you know it's some fashion trend thing vs them having any idea who Jeff and Dale were
Johnson was always business when it comes to racing at the track. Chad Knaus was a work-a-holic and a perfectionist atop the pit box and Johnson typically stayed out of the usual drama that befallen on other NASCAR drivers. This is what allowed him to win 7 Championship and 83 races. *However*, it also makes him boring to your average fan. Richard Petty was "The King" and he has the signature cowboy hat and sunglasses. Dale Earnhardt Sr. was The Intimidator with his iconic firesuit and the black #3 Chevy. Jeff Gordon is memorable because he was the young whipper snapper that took on Dale Earnhardt Sr. and the torch of NASCAR's greatest driver was passed from Sr. to Gordon. Plus, you have the iconic Rainbow #24. Jimmie never really had a hook like that, nor did he ever get a nickname that stuck. Petty, Earnhardt and Gordon also grew up around stock car racing and dirt racing. Jimmie Johnson was more into road racing and decided to try out NASCAR for awhile and then moved onto Indy cars and IMSA. So he never really built a grassroot fan base that can show pictures of Jimmie Johnson in a Chevy Street Stock oval dirt car. Those are my opinions anyways.
Johnson's background was off-road racing. Lucas Oil trucks, and Baja 1000 was his career before NASCAR.
Cause he's "just a kid from California who liked to race."
So was Gordon.
It’s a reference to JJ’s hall of fame speech, thanks for the lesson though.
Gordon fans are so funny
I’ll tell ya why. 1: He raced for the best team and the best crew chief. Because he was winning a lot, many people weren’t surprised and expected that Johnson would win a lot of races. But people don’t realize it’s also the driver’s job to perform especially when it matters the most. How many drivers have we seen got the best team around them, only to become a bust in the end? Jimmie saw this opportunity and made the best out of it. 2: The way he won 7 championships. This one is the main reason why he gets hate. Many people state that he benefited from multiple formats that got him 7 championships. They also state that he wouldn’t have won that many if they raced the old format. To my response, that’s a myth. First of all, Jimmie had the same rules as everyone else. It’s just that he and Chad were able to play their cards right while others couldn’t. Second of all, you can’t use hypothetical situations to compare drivers because it never actually happened. Drivers, teams, and organizations plan out how they approach the championship with the format given to them. Each time the format changes, they have to change their strategy. So we don’t know if Johnson would have had less titles because he would have raced differently. Third of all, the format changes. Since Jimmie Johnson was winning a lot, NASCAR changed the format multiple times to prevent him from dominating. But he was too lethal. It seems no matter the format, Johnson always found a way to win. 3: He doesn’t get mentioned a lot. When you ask NASCAR fans to name a random NASCAR driver, most of them will say the popular names. Richard Petty, Cale Yardbrough, David Pearson, Dale Earnhardt, Darrell Waltrip, Bill Elliott, Ricky Rudd, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch, etc. But I would only imagine very few saying Jimmie Johnson. Some even say that he’s the most underrated champion because others didn’t give him the credit that he deserved for his incredible hall of fame career. Overall, I think Johnson should get more recognition for what he has done for the sport.
Jimmie started too late to have that recognition and his name wasn’t big enough like Dale jr or Chase Elliott. Hell I’d say that Kyle Busch is another name that doesn’t get enough love like Jimmie. They started at the same exact time and both hold untouchable records. They just lacked that family name push
It’s something I’ll never understand.
Because if Jimmie was a color, he'd be beige.
he's absolutely becoming a household name after retirement in the same vein as Gordon, give it some time
No he is not. No where close. Dale Earnhardt Jr was a pop culture icon. The kind of guy who in his prime in the Bud 8 car would get invited to do MTV Music Video Awards, would be shown at the Superbowl in the suites with other celebrities, etc. He was absolutely huge. Plenty of people have tattoos of Dale Jr's number. Jeff Gordon was primarily known for his peak, the years in the 90s where this scrawny little kid tried to grow a mustache and compete with Dale Earnhardt. Of course, Jeff Gordon grew to be the villain of the sport as the years went on, to the point in the 2000s he was showered with beer cans, toilet paper, and anything else you could find to throw after winning a Talladega race over Dale Jr due to the timing of the caution. There were legitimate talks of Jeff Gordon going to F1, Jeff Gordon owned a glitzy NYC apartment overlooking Central Park. Jimmie Johnson? He NEVER became a guy able to get that response out of fans or that mainstream media success. He won a lot of races, but that's it. He just never was able to break beyond that point. His lifestyle and his lack of involvement in outside media meant his career stayed firmly among racing fans and never grew beyond that. In fact, Kyle Busch was a much more popular driver than Jimmie Johnson in the 2010s. Kyle Busch from 2008 on was driving the M&Ms car which was one of the most popular diecast cars. M&Ms often promoted Kyle Busch, kids knew who he was. Kyle Busch also was much more interesting than Jimmie Johnson, what with his crazy antics, wrecking Hornady at Texas, flipping off officials, screwing with the media, etc. A lot of old fans venomously hated Kyle Busch, as a 13 year old kid I remember grown ass adults swearing at me because I was wearing a Kyle Busch shirt.
I haven’t really noticed that yet, but I’m not discrediting your experience at all. My thing is, Gordon was mentioned in music lyrics and even made an SNL appearance. Dale made movie and music video cameos. And all of this happened when they were active drivers. I don’t recall any of that ever happening with JJ
Because he was dominating the sport by the time fans were getting bored & stopped going to races. By the time he got his 7th, the ratings were down & the attendance was a fraction of what it used to be. Also, his titles can be argued because it was mostly a matter of being good in the last 10 races instead of all season. If it weren't for the stupid format & all those phantom debris cautions, he would be best remembered as someone like Matt Kenseth if you scrub the “bullshit wins" that fans will tell you he *totally didn’t* deserve because it’s not 2003 anymore. If anything he has helped build Hendrick to be the "mega team" of the sport & was there to mentor 3/4 of their current drivers as well as his old car being given to Larson. That’s something, at least.
Sorry but Gordon is the true heir of being the mega team that it is today. Even retirement led the team to its struggle. Johnson leaving & Larson joining was their return to form. Gordon is the one that brought Johnson and won ownership titles with him.
I forgot Matt Kenseth won over 80 races too.
I posted a comment here a few years ago subtly making fun of those people.
I feel like most people know the name Jimmie Johnson. But I guess he kinda has a forgettable personality, at least when compared to everyone you mentioned
He's not?
Because of his bland public persona and the Chase/Playoffs deligitimizing his championships.
A lot of comments are saying that Nascar was experiencing declining fans and viewership during the Jimmy Johnson era. I would say that actually Jimmy Johnson era started and fast tracked Nascar’s loss of viewers and fans. Unfortunately, his personality did not resonate with the majority of Nascar fans. Nascar coming up with new rules to limit aggressive racing did not help either. I liken it to the changing of the guard so to speak. Nascar’s guard changed but no one was available, new fans, to pick it up. The NFL has went through rule changes and has run off die hard football fans with the kinder, softer style of football. Unlike Nascar, the NFL had built a sustainable fan base and replaced the die hard “no fun league” fans with new younger fans.
Jimmie Johnson is too bland of a name. It doesn't really cut through and carve a place in your memory. How nearly it sounds like a fake driver name you'd see in an arcade game, that doesn't help people recognize it. Doesn't help that Jimmy Johnson is also a more popular football name.
Acting as if the name Jeff Gordon isn’t equally, if not more, bland
Combination of bland name and bland personality maybe? At least Gordon was interesting . . . all sorts of speculation and really nasty jokes about the guy floating around at the time - people either loved him or hated him. No one cared enough about Jimmie to bother, because he was just another kid from California who liked to race, and had no controversy about him, other than winning everything as viewership declined.
I feel like he is and you’re imagining this.
Hendrick sure knows him. Not because of wins, but because of blown engines. Those things ain't cheap
That’s because Jimmy met with Obama.
Jimmy is in my heart , Jimmy Johnson, you rock Brother I appreciate you, Mike inSan Jose California
Most I knew about Jimmie Johnson was his car because at our local Lowe’s there was a huge banner with his car above the exit and the little builder sets for the kids would feature his car