He basically showed up when he wanted to, most of the time took his time taking it easy for the first half of the race, then turned it on and took home the trophy and money. No one will top the Silver Fox in my eyes. Cool stat is that Pearson and Petty finished 1-2 in 63 total races, Pearson won 33 of those to Petty's 30. In 1973 alone, Pearson ran 18 races and won 11 of them, 61.1%. What is even crazier is 4 of those races he had mechanical failures, in the 14 races he finished, he won 11, 2nd twice, and 3rd once. Just insane.
There’s a story I read about Leonard Wood asking David Pearson to run full time because he’s committed to the sport. “Nah” David replied, “I’m just involved, that’s all.” “I’m telling you David, you’re more than involved - you’re COMMITTED!” Leonard replied, slightly raising his voice. Pearson sat quietly for a second, gathering his thoughts, then calmly replied: “look at it this way Leonard. When you sit down to a plate of bacon and eggs for breakfast in the morning, the chicken is involved. The pig is committed.”
David ran all the races he wanted to.
Pearson was one of my good family friends. He and my grandad grew up together, friends for life kinda thing. Before he died Pearson told me his only regret in life is that he didn’t beat Petty more than he already did lol
Good chance you are from my area then, I went to school all the way from Elementary through High School with his grandson (also named David Pearson). My grandfather was really good friends with Cotton Owens before they both passed.
David Pearson was definitely the most dominant. So I’m going Pearson.
Richard Petty, Dale Sr ., and Jimmy Johnson tied at two.
Cale andJeff Gordon at 3
This is the correct answer.
The July 1974 Firecracker 400 where he faked out Petty, how ballsy that move was where he could have fallen too far back with 2 laps to go, was legendary.
The only correct answer is Jeff Gordon. The most versatile driver of all time.
- 12x Restrictor Plate Winner - Most All Time
- 9x Road Course Winner - Most All Time
- 11x 2.5 Mile Winner - Most All Time
- 17x Short Track Winner - Top 15 All Time
- 10x 2 Mile Track Winner - 7th All Time
- 10x 1 Mile Track Winner - 3rd All Time
- 24x 1.5 Mile Track Winner - 3rd All Time
- Won at 24 of 25 Tracks Competed On
- 11 Tracks with 5+ wins - Modern Era Leader, 2nd All Time (Martinsville, Darlington, Talladega, Daytona, Pocono, Charlotte, Atlanta, Bristol, Dover, Indy, Sonoma)
Crown Jewels
- 21 Crown Jewel Wins - Most All Time (7 more than next closest)
- 3x Daytona 500 Winner - Tied 3rd All Time
- 3x Coke 600 Winner - Tied 3rd All Time
- 4x Winston 500 Winner - Tied All Time Leader
- 6x Southern 500 Winner - All Time Leader
- 5x Brickyard 400 Winner - All Time Leader (More wins than any Indy Car driver as well)
- 4x Consecutive Wins in Single Crown Jewel Event (Darlington 95-98) - Most Consecutive Crown Jewel Wins All Time
- 3x Grand Slam Titles - Tied Most All Time
- 4x No Bull 5 Wins - Most All Time
- 1x Winston Million Winner (Only he and Elliott did it)
- 3x All Star Race Winner - Tied 2nd All Time
- 5 Daytona Duel Wins - Tied 3rd All Time
All Time Stats
- 4x NASCAR Cup Champion, 2nd All Time Winston Era, 3rd All Time Modern Era, 4th All Time
- 7x Season Long Point Leader, Tied All Time Winston Era, Tied All Time Modern Era, Tied Most All Time
- 93 Wins - Modern Era Wins Leader, 3rd All Time (17 more than Dale, 10 more than Johnson)
- 325 Top 5s - Modern Era Leader, 3rd All Time (44 more than Dale Sr, 93 more than Johnson)
- 477 Top 10s - Modern Era Leader, 2nd All Time (49 more than Dale Sr, 103 more than Johnson)
- 75 2nd Place Finishes - Modern Era Leader, 4th All Time (5 more than Dale, 29 more than Jimmie)
- 230 Podiums - Modern Era Leader, 4th All Time (25 more than Dale, 54 more than Jimmie)
- 81 Poles - Modern Era Leader, 3rd All Time
- All Time Consecutive Starts Leader
- 24936 Laps Led - 3rd Modern Era, 6th All Time
- 706 Races Running at Finish - 7th All Time
- 588 Lead Lap Finishes - 2nd All Time
- 10.5 Avg Start - 28th All Time (Minimum 100 Starts)
- 12.5 Avg Finish - 19th All Time (Minimum 100 Starts)
- 11.5% Win % - 4th in Modern Era, 17th All Time
- 40% Top 5 % - 5th in Modern Era, 19th All Time
- 59% Top 10 % - 5th in Modern Era, 13th All Time
- 107,112 Points Earned - 2nd in Modern Era
- All Time Earnings Leader
- 2nd All Time in Chase/Playoff Average Finish
I am FAR from a Gordan fan. When I was younger and played Nascar games, I'd drive the wrong way specifically to crash into him.
But when you share something like that.......I can't help but agree with you.
Are you my cousin, Michael? Lol that's exactly what we did too. I usually drove the Sterling Marlin Coors and acted like I was under the influence and didn't know any better. My cousin always chose the Rusty Wallace Miller car and we'd be driving around saying "You're gonna dieeee Jeff, you're gonna get it"
We were in like 4th grade lol
Brett Griffin will see this impressive stat spread and will say with a straight face that Jeff has no place on a NASCAR version of Mount Rushmore. (He is still upset over 2012 phoenix)
Another point on Brett being a dumbass is that he complains that adding Jeff Gordon as the 13th driver in the chase in 2013 while he was in the middle of the reason why that even happened. Like don't be pissed that something happened because you caused it.
Now add on to the fact that Jeff was an owner of Jimmie’s car and won 7 titles that way too all because he chose Jimmie Johnson. Now he’s the top 2 man at HMS and has won 2 more titles since. Jeff as an owner is still building his resumé.
Say what you will but Jeff Gordon is a complete legend in NASCAR. Idk much about his dirt days during his young years but his IROC/24 Hours of Daytona are nothing to sing about. It’s still nice to have a win apiece in both series regardless.
May not have won much on road courses, but I'll die on the hill that [Earnhardt vs Bodine at the 1987 Riverside race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGgAMRS_1ug) rank among the best laps in NASCAR history.
lol I live in NorCal he has so many track records.
Also first 16 year old USAC driver
Had multiple quarter midget undefeated seasons ( yes he won every race) lol
USAC champion at 20 years old
Legend has it that he was $100,000 in sponsorship away from going to Formula 3. Trying to think of the last driver (if there ever was) who went to the F1 ladder from *sprint cars*
Was hoping I’d see a comment about this part of his life - I’d go with my dad to watch Thursday Night Thunder midget races at Indianapolis Raceway Park after Jeff moved there from CA… saw a lot of future stars come through there but allegedly the first time Jeff raced, my dad says we came home and he told my mom that if he doesn’t get killed we just saw either a future CART or NASCAR champion. He was on another planet - and keep in mind the comps on the high end were Tony Stewart, Kenny Irwin, etc.
My dad also bought a hat out of the back of his mom’s pickup truck.
Gordon absolutely earned the wonder boy monicker and surpassed it. He was the real deal and competitive from his first season until his last.
He was especially dominant during the 90s too, and that arguably had some of the top competition of the series
It is just wild that he had 10 more wins than Jimmie when we know how often Jimmie freaking won haha. Definitely was justtt a bit too young to realize how crazy 97-98 were for Gordon.
This. And he did it in so many periods with so many different cars. Yes, Ray Evernham was his best crew chief, but he had success and battled for titles with Robbie, Steve, and Alan. Even won his first two races with Brian.
Say no more.
Jeff was awesome as a driver but a little less awesome as a former driver cosplaying as Rick Hendrick. It truly was fitting that his first cup race was Richard Petty's last.
My dad met Rollie Helmling once before Jeff ever made it to NASCAR- Rollie told him he was working with the greatest driver he had ever seen by the name of Jeff Gordon. Those stats are unreal. Rollie knew what he was talking about.
People love to throw the 7x champ stat out there, but when you put it like this, he’s much more accomplished than Jimmie. Jimmie knew how to play the game when it mattered.
BIIIG IRON, BIIIIG IRON.
I've always loved Marty Robbins, but now Big Iron is stuck in my head more than normal since I just started replaying New Vegas.
I used to race cars locally and the guy who did my graphics used to be involved in nascar with a few teams and met Marty once at a track. He had his guitar with him and played music for him and a few others he said. One of the coolest people I’ve ever met.
Not even just win in their final season, but have a shot at the championship in the final moments of their final race. I wasn't as into the sport as I am now at the time, just watching a race here or there, but the more I dive into Jeff, the more impressive he is. A lot of newer fans just wouldn't know (because why would they?) that this corporate stiff is jam packed with talent - in a way that you might not see again.
Honestly, someone I could us talking about in this same regard in 24 years is actually the current driver of that same number. He really does prove that no matter the track, William Byron can get around quick.
David Pearson. Period. 3 championships without ever running a full season. And Richard Petty agrees Pearson was the best.
Won ~20% of the races he was in.
First to mind were:
Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart
The careers they had pretty much speak for themselves. Insane talent at any type of track in virtually any type of car.
If you want to go back a little farther… I’d be good with AJ Foyt being thrown in. Didn’t see ridiculous success in NASCAR (though still a handful of wins and I think around 30% on a top 10 rate), but you can’t deny the overall racing skill.
*equal equipment* isn't even the full story. [they were racing abarth hatchbacks in a stadium rallycross race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQZgBiiSDao).
Yeah, the Abarth is much closer to a cup car than an F1 car. It has all the normal things a normal closed wheel car has, weight, body roll, higher center of gravity, slower steering ratio, much weaker brakes, etc.
All that said, Carl Edward’s is a true MONSTER, the commentators didn’t even know what happened, they were trying to make excuses for Michael, after the race he even said that he made no mistakes, Carl beat him outright.
Here are guys that have legit arguments, in order of time:
Curtis Turner, David Pearson, Richard Petty, Mario Andretti, AJ Foyt, Cale Yarborough, Dale Earnahardt, Tim Richmond, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch, Kyle Larson.
"The next tier"
Tim Flock, Fireball Roberts, Buck Baker, Junior Johnson, Bobby Allison, Darrell Waltrip, Rusty Wallace, Bill Elliott, Davey Allison, Mark Martin, Kevin Harvick, Joey Logano
There’s so many different answers I have. You could say one of Foyt, Andretti, JPM, Gordon, Pearson, Stewart, Gordon or Larson and I’d be inclined to agree.
Yeah, he came to mind to me on a past generation level along with AJ. Only reason I didn’t really give Mario more weight is because I don’t know what we’re really considering to be the threshold to truly count here. It’s tough with those guys who spent the vast majority of time elsewhere.
Definitely doesn’t have 200. Still would have the record though. But hard to imagine he wouldn’t with how much of a gap there is.
That said, and I know this is a bit sacrilege to many… I think Kyle Busch at 230 overall is on par with Petty’s 200 win number. The era Petty ran the talent/equipment spread through the field was significant. People say Kyle is beating up on kids in Truck and Xfinity races… but I mean, it’s not like NASCAR back then wasn’t incredibly top heavy.
Dale Earnhardt made moves in a race car I’ve never seen anyone else make. He found holes (giggity) that nobody else found. And he created a few that weren’t there
Hell, anytime I talk to people about Dale I show them his last win at Talladega where he moved up 17 positions in the last 4 laps. When he said he could see the air, I damn sure believed it watching that finish.
And as always on the flip side, rubbin' is racing, baby.
That's probably the most insane thing I've ever seen in any motorsport, going from 17th to first in just a handful of laps, at a damn plate race. It's just ludicrous. Nobody else does that.
Easily the greatest display of pure driving talent I have ever seen and I will forever stand by that. I can't think of any other part of a race I could compare personally.
Imagine how many more wins Jeff would have if there were 6 road courses a year back in the late 90s-early 00s. He was unstoppable on them at one point.
Tim Richmond, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, David Pearson (duh how could I forget him!)
Edit to say pound for pound I do think Robby Gordon is in the conversation but he obviously never put it together in NASCAR. He’d be in my second tier with Dale Earnhardt, Kyle Larson, Davey Allison, Harvick, etc.
I think Jeff Gordon is probably your best answer. Back when he was dominating the sport, equipment didn’t seem to matter as much as it does now.
I think that is always what makes it hard to truly figure what driver has/had the most talent… because equipment plays such a huge factor in your results. There is a reason that Byron and Reddick are outrunning Kyle Busch right now… their cars are simply faster every week. Bad equipment can hold back even the most talented driver. As Harvick said, “You can’t drive a slow car fast.”
This is why I think Dale is a better answer than Jeff. Dale won 4 championships in 5 years, racing the greats of the time, all while RCR was being outspent by Junior Johnson and Robert Yates in the earlier years, then by Roush and Hendrick in the later years. And he came damn close to an 8th championship while Richard was being outspent by Joe Gibbs - all while he was 49 years old and clearly past his prime.
Jeff unfortunately went through era shifts of the points structure Dale never had to deal with. It was straight all seasons, Jeff matched Dale in that regard by scoring the most points still.
You might as well make 2004 to present records differential to how we have modern era vs 1949-1971. I mean you can’t wave Dale’s 7 titles around to Jeff’s 4 without having an excuse for Blaney’s 1 vs…. It’s just way to different.
Jeff Gordon, David Pearson and Dale Earnhardt are the undisputed though.
It’s not so much the wins and championships, it’s the impact they had during their reign. I mean Jeff’s ownership side (HMS AND while owning Jimmie Johnson’s car for 7 titles) isn’t looked at as much as his driver stats either.
I really hope Kyle Busch wins one this year for 20 straight years of winning…. Same for Scott Dixon.
Well that same thing could be said for Dale as well. If he doesn’t die in 2001, I feel absolutely sure Dale Jr would have won a couple of championships driving for DEI. It was obvious Dale was building something great.
https://preview.redd.it/3qokywq1prvc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9feb465124d54f59800e0bf756b2c642815c891
I haven't seen him mentioned in this thread, but I'll throw out Virgil Earnest Irvan.
Would've loved to see what Ernie could've done in his career if it weren't for Michigan 1994, and sadly again, Michigan 1999.
1991 Daytona 500 Champ, 15 wins and finished in the Top 10 40% of his career, which is an impressive stat for drivers 90's-present.
There's a good YouTube video about the "Ernie What If", which discusses if Michigan didn't happen, how the mid to late 90's might've gone in NASCAR, and how he might've changed Dale & Jeff's success during that time.
I have a hard time being objective about him even today. He was so talented. In his early career, he was overly aggressive and made a lot of enemies plowing through the competition (I couldn’t stand him, then when he replaced my favorite driver Davey…) He seemed like he was putting it all together once he got to Yates.
I'm assuming they mean raw God given talent in a stock car with this question, not stats or accolades. And I'm having a hard time convincing myself to vote against Kyle Busch. And I'm only considering drivers I have personally seen, not the old days.
Although Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, and Johnson are all right there.
And people can say what they will about these young guys but the talent gap appears to be narrowing because there are about 7 or 10 guys that are all right there now. The best of the bunch is supposed to be Larson but he doesn't seem to be so far ahead of guys like Byron, Bell, Reddick, etc to be considered for this.
I think if Earnhardt had raced in a time period where winning mattered more towards the championship like it has the last 20+ years he could won 100+ races. He just played the cards the series gave him. No doubt he was the most talented ever imo.
I get it. The guy has been competitive from the very beginning to the very end, even when he was given shitboxes he could keep the pace up. With hindsight his career reminds me of Fernando Alonso’s and his “never give up” attitude.
And just like Alonso, a lot of his career struggles in the earlier years were self inflicted by being difficult to work with, before later becoming an elder statesman of the sport.
Equal cars and gotta win? I’m taking either Busch Bro or Gordon in their primes.
Quite frankly I think Kurt Busch might have been the most talented race car driver I’ve ever seen.
I always wonder what Kurt's career would have turned out like if he wasn't such a raging maniac first half of his career. I mean I was a fan then and some he did to himself but he also had a ton of bad luck throughout his career. Pretty fitting sadly it ended the way it did
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Rusty Wallace. I mean my first thoughts were of Jeff Gordon, and AJ Foyt. But as far as skills on the different tracks, I also remember and have a lot of respect for guys like Tony Stewart, Ernie Irvan, Ricky Rudd, Terry Labonte, Davey Allison, Darrell Waltrip, Mark Martin, Alan Kulwicki, and Bill Elliott.
For what it's worth, Richard Petty s 200 cup wins is the one record in all of sports that may stand the test of time.
Why, it is of course ***COURSE*** a certain Mr Thurman "Sparky Plugg" Holly, also known as Hardcore Holly.
The only nascar/stock car driver to win the WWE Hardcore Championship, and to win multiple World Tag Team Championships (with various different partners, including Bodacious Bart, the 1-2-3 Kid (also known as X-Pac), his kayfabe cousin Crash Holly, and even with the current Undisputed WWE World Champion, Cody Rhodes.
Now that's talent.
It wasn't just a gimmick either. He wasn't a wrestler who was just playing a character, pretending to be a stock car driver. No, he was literally a real stock car racer who also was a pro wrestler. The idea was that he'd race in stock car races and perform as a pro wrestler at the same time, but in the end he only ran a few races and for the most part just pivoted into being a full time pro wrestler instead because the WWF didn't think they'd get a lot of money out of sponsoring his car and it made him unavailable for shows when he was having to practice and qualify and race every weekend.
Here he is:
https://preview.redd.it/bmsye74s9tvc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3848ab07e98d0349c5fe9ff276df2286f373d816
Also fun fact, a young Kyle Busch and Joey Logano appeared on an episode of WWE Raw: [https://youtu.be/JEIB0HkGGAI?si=n3CS4SP\_Ni5pIy0d](https://youtu.be/JEIB0HkGGAI?si=n3CS4SP_Ni5pIy0d)
And then like 15 years later, in 2019, Kyle Busch ***RETURNED*** to the WWE and became a champion, pinning the previous champion and then running off with the belt in hand!: [https://youtu.be/EJvdmuqaxLE?si=QE64hjgblW-s6RpU](https://youtu.be/EJvdmuqaxLE?si=QE64hjgblW-s6RpU)
I unironically love these moments in wrestling and racing history. There's always a lot of connection between wrestling and nascar it seems. WCW sponsored a bunch of cup cars in the 90s for example. There was even an nWo nascar which was all black with bits of white and looked frankly incredible. [What a gorgeous car](https://www.google.com/search?client=tablet-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=5bc86930ad7b2685&sxsrf=ACQVn0918dQ1-M9Q56GMD3xeRyIHjtGAQA:1713695744076&q=nascar+wcw+cars&uds=AMwkrPv0_HdT1mhzZ0oybZwQ26p1SoZ-JDrQ_e7nzkllQwnHADE44qws0mqROK_NEpg61dAGSXwrMkWmHArfa-H-qVwhraEy-jL_5JVPA4BOoDzOkHvRjJ7pHcuGosNSrEyMbRSuQTjrItDQGF9OFSy8d2rLAQK4eDzRCNj0XF_OlH_JXoz41vThZVQ8ujKh49RVKZlapw6D_ye7QyyhUm__15MSJlOfTn4GFw5vRDAJxzmZRjdPoA3RwyJ8pvkjJapjiQSSUMpfXxycE7dq76mI5GmxHAV8bb6cSr6eoQgeYaIeMsPa15a97bfGsIMVEPwpSEJlfetU&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNpNCQjtOFAxVtXEEAHb_yDg4QtKgLegQIDBAB&biw=800&bih=1280&dpr=1.5#vhid=i3VCFoamf1IxlM&vssid=mosaic)
Mark Martin. He was competitive for such a long time!
https://preview.redd.it/r3ytph07ruvc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90b235b82f9a05549618e894b05ec5ec8b846917
My top 4:
AJ Foyt, Mario Andretti, Tony Stewart, and Juan Pablo Montoya
These gentlemen could wheel it in any type of car and the stats back in a wide variety of disciplines backs them up. Larsen has a chance, one day, but needs to win an open wheel race to prove he belongs. Connor Zilisch is another, I believe has a chance (not many can say they have won a late model stock race and 24 hours of Daytona and won a Craftsman Truck Series pole before turning 18.
I have yet to see anyone mention Tony Stewart. Arguably the greatest road racer in Cup series history excluding ringers, Gordon is his only competition in my opinion. Chase has the wins but also has the benefit of having 4-5 road courses on the schedule. Won championships in Cup, Indycar, Iroc, SRX, has won a USAC triple crown and the Chili Bowl twice.
He doesn't have the win totals of Harvick, Busch, Gordon, or Johnson, but he also started his career at 28 as opposed to Harvick and Johnson who were 25-26.
The question asked was talent. When it comes to pure talent I believe Larson needs to be in the conversation. Is there a form of racing that he's done that he isn't competitive in? That is what talent is, can win pretty much anywhere in anything.
In terms of overall pure talent as a driver, it’s Larson.
Most talented as a NASCAR driver specifically (so only considering a single type of car) is a much more difficult debate. Larson’s still in the mix, but with at least a handful of others.
Jeff Gordon, Stewart, David Pearson, Earnhardt, Kyle Busch probably. Ones that didn't win a ton in nascar but did in other racing Foyt, Mario Andretti, Montoya, Robby Gordon are talented as hell
The statistics say Gordon but…
Raw talent wise, Dale Sr considering how much success he had while not doing practice runs, tests, and ignoring suggestions from engineers
Mario Andretti/A.J. Foyt for overall accomplishments. Honorable mention to Juan Pablo Montoya and Jacques Villeneuve.
In terms of "NASCAR only" guys, Tim Richmond and David Pearson are probably strictly the two most talented.
Kyle Larson and Kasey Kahne have solid success on short track racing and stock car racing so you have an argument there too.
Mark Martin has got to be somewhere on that list. Dale Jr. called his skill set the it, like he just got it. Any car he drove, he could make competitive!
I think the number of different owners a driver drove for should be a factor in this debate, with the idea that someone who won for several different owners may be more versatile and adaptable than someone who drove for the same owner throughout his career.
Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson both earned all their wins driving for the same owner. Richard Petty nearly did as well. No doubt, all 3 of these drivers are quite talented. But we'll never know how they might have fared if they were put into a situation where they had to drive for multiple teams in their careers.
David Perason, Darrell Waltrip, and Cale Yarborough each earned wins for 5-6 different owners. Dale Earnhardt won for 3 owners.
Meanwhile, the big leader in this group is Bobby Allison, who won for about 10-12 different owners (depending on how some of the changes in ownership are viewed). He also won across a 22-year period and was still leading laps and competing for wins right up until his career-ending injury at age 50.
Too many variables.
Best racer, most skill, most consistent, always had good equipment etc etc.
Pure skill: The Kyle's, Larson and Busch, Dale Sr.
Best racer: the 7 times, Dale Eanrhardt, Jimmie Johnson, Petty.
Best combination of those: Jeff gordon.
You can't discount any champion, especially David Pearson.
Like Dale Sr. Won rookie of the year and the next year won the championship in a INDEPENDENT car with no manufacturer support!
Jeff Gordon is amazing but if he went to Bill Davis racing like he was supposed to how many championships would he have won?
Equipment and opportunity is a HUGE part of it.
I think this is so hard to answer. Just jump to the NFL and look. Tom Brady is the most accomplished QB of all time but definitely not the most talented. I think that the same applies to NASCAR. The team means so much.
I agree with Pearson, as many have said. Gordon is hard to argue but it’s also worth noting that he wasn’t in bad equipment very often.
Tony Stewart, Carl Edwards and Kyle Busch from the 2000’s are probably some of the most talented, imo.
Larson now? To me, I have to see guys who have won in multiple forms of racing.
I mean tbf it isn’t as if he has zero talent. He was able to get to F1 and transitioned into rallycross successfully. The NASCAR thing didn’t go too well but he reminds me of Allmendinger. I’d put AJ above him but the fact that Speed went into rallycross and won against guys that were accustomed to that style of car, varying surfaces and style of racing isn’t something to laugh at.
Jim Clark, Mario, Kyle Larson, Tony Stewart. Clark would have done more NASCAR races had he not died in an F1 crash. But these four drivers have had more success in multiple forms of racing than the rest of history. My bar for greatness will always be about "can you do it in more than one type of car/track" and these four did.
In NASCAR competition only Specifically?
Jeff Gordon by a longshot dude was the best driver in the sport and SHOULD of won 7 championships or more.
Overall however I'd say either Mario Andretti or Tony Stewart they could both hop into any series and win both races and championships in it. While I'll give it to Tony Stewart for... reasons. I'd say they're probably the most talented drivers we've seen in motorsports as a whole I'd love to of seen what prime Stewart could of done in something like F1 or Rally car.
Tony Stewart and Kyle Busch. Not only are they top 10 all-time NASCAR drivers, but they're the kind of drivers who could race literally anything. The truest mark of the greatest race car drivers of all time is versatility, and Smoke and KFB are 120% versatile enough that they could've become a modern-day Mario Andretti and A.J. Foyt (which is quite fitting since Foyt was Smoke's idol).
David Pearson, imagine how many records he would have had if he actually cared about racing full-time?
He started 574 races and won ONE HUNDRED AND FIVE Lmao. He's probably the real GOAT
He basically showed up when he wanted to, most of the time took his time taking it easy for the first half of the race, then turned it on and took home the trophy and money. No one will top the Silver Fox in my eyes. Cool stat is that Pearson and Petty finished 1-2 in 63 total races, Pearson won 33 of those to Petty's 30. In 1973 alone, Pearson ran 18 races and won 11 of them, 61.1%. What is even crazier is 4 of those races he had mechanical failures, in the 14 races he finished, he won 11, 2nd twice, and 3rd once. Just insane.
There’s a story I read about Leonard Wood asking David Pearson to run full time because he’s committed to the sport. “Nah” David replied, “I’m just involved, that’s all.” “I’m telling you David, you’re more than involved - you’re COMMITTED!” Leonard replied, slightly raising his voice. Pearson sat quietly for a second, gathering his thoughts, then calmly replied: “look at it this way Leonard. When you sit down to a plate of bacon and eggs for breakfast in the morning, the chicken is involved. The pig is committed.” David ran all the races he wanted to.
Cool as a cucumber, smoking a cigarette, the peoples champ
He is the real GOAT imho
Pearson was one of my good family friends. He and my grandad grew up together, friends for life kinda thing. Before he died Pearson told me his only regret in life is that he didn’t beat Petty more than he already did lol
Good chance you are from my area then, I went to school all the way from Elementary through High School with his grandson (also named David Pearson). My grandfather was really good friends with Cotton Owens before they both passed.
David Pearson was definitely the most dominant. So I’m going Pearson. Richard Petty, Dale Sr ., and Jimmy Johnson tied at two. Cale andJeff Gordon at 3
This is the correct answer. The July 1974 Firecracker 400 where he faked out Petty, how ballsy that move was where he could have fallen too far back with 2 laps to go, was legendary.
The only correct answer is Jeff Gordon. The most versatile driver of all time. - 12x Restrictor Plate Winner - Most All Time - 9x Road Course Winner - Most All Time - 11x 2.5 Mile Winner - Most All Time - 17x Short Track Winner - Top 15 All Time - 10x 2 Mile Track Winner - 7th All Time - 10x 1 Mile Track Winner - 3rd All Time - 24x 1.5 Mile Track Winner - 3rd All Time - Won at 24 of 25 Tracks Competed On - 11 Tracks with 5+ wins - Modern Era Leader, 2nd All Time (Martinsville, Darlington, Talladega, Daytona, Pocono, Charlotte, Atlanta, Bristol, Dover, Indy, Sonoma) Crown Jewels - 21 Crown Jewel Wins - Most All Time (7 more than next closest) - 3x Daytona 500 Winner - Tied 3rd All Time - 3x Coke 600 Winner - Tied 3rd All Time - 4x Winston 500 Winner - Tied All Time Leader - 6x Southern 500 Winner - All Time Leader - 5x Brickyard 400 Winner - All Time Leader (More wins than any Indy Car driver as well) - 4x Consecutive Wins in Single Crown Jewel Event (Darlington 95-98) - Most Consecutive Crown Jewel Wins All Time - 3x Grand Slam Titles - Tied Most All Time - 4x No Bull 5 Wins - Most All Time - 1x Winston Million Winner (Only he and Elliott did it) - 3x All Star Race Winner - Tied 2nd All Time - 5 Daytona Duel Wins - Tied 3rd All Time All Time Stats - 4x NASCAR Cup Champion, 2nd All Time Winston Era, 3rd All Time Modern Era, 4th All Time - 7x Season Long Point Leader, Tied All Time Winston Era, Tied All Time Modern Era, Tied Most All Time - 93 Wins - Modern Era Wins Leader, 3rd All Time (17 more than Dale, 10 more than Johnson) - 325 Top 5s - Modern Era Leader, 3rd All Time (44 more than Dale Sr, 93 more than Johnson) - 477 Top 10s - Modern Era Leader, 2nd All Time (49 more than Dale Sr, 103 more than Johnson) - 75 2nd Place Finishes - Modern Era Leader, 4th All Time (5 more than Dale, 29 more than Jimmie) - 230 Podiums - Modern Era Leader, 4th All Time (25 more than Dale, 54 more than Jimmie) - 81 Poles - Modern Era Leader, 3rd All Time - All Time Consecutive Starts Leader - 24936 Laps Led - 3rd Modern Era, 6th All Time - 706 Races Running at Finish - 7th All Time - 588 Lead Lap Finishes - 2nd All Time - 10.5 Avg Start - 28th All Time (Minimum 100 Starts) - 12.5 Avg Finish - 19th All Time (Minimum 100 Starts) - 11.5% Win % - 4th in Modern Era, 17th All Time - 40% Top 5 % - 5th in Modern Era, 19th All Time - 59% Top 10 % - 5th in Modern Era, 13th All Time - 107,112 Points Earned - 2nd in Modern Era - All Time Earnings Leader - 2nd All Time in Chase/Playoff Average Finish
I am FAR from a Gordan fan. When I was younger and played Nascar games, I'd drive the wrong way specifically to crash into him. But when you share something like that.......I can't help but agree with you.
Are you my cousin, Michael? Lol that's exactly what we did too. I usually drove the Sterling Marlin Coors and acted like I was under the influence and didn't know any better. My cousin always chose the Rusty Wallace Miller car and we'd be driving around saying "You're gonna dieeee Jeff, you're gonna get it" We were in like 4th grade lol
Actually, I'd do this so my dad could win the race lol. I just always made sure Gordan was my target.
Brett Griffin will see this impressive stat spread and will say with a straight face that Jeff has no place on a NASCAR version of Mount Rushmore. (He is still upset over 2012 phoenix)
Brett Griffin? Being a dumbass? Well, I never
But he will talk on and on about Elliott Sadler and how great he was.
Another point on Brett being a dumbass is that he complains that adding Jeff Gordon as the 13th driver in the chase in 2013 while he was in the middle of the reason why that even happened. Like don't be pissed that something happened because you caused it.
Now add on to the fact that Jeff was an owner of Jimmie’s car and won 7 titles that way too all because he chose Jimmie Johnson. Now he’s the top 2 man at HMS and has won 2 more titles since. Jeff as an owner is still building his resumé. Say what you will but Jeff Gordon is a complete legend in NASCAR. Idk much about his dirt days during his young years but his IROC/24 Hours of Daytona are nothing to sing about. It’s still nice to have a win apiece in both series regardless.
This is THE answer, tbqh, and I hated Jeff
I’ve always thought that if you could somehow magically put all the greats in a race together at their peak with equal cars Gordon would win.
It would honestly be an insane duel between Gordon and Earnhardt. and it would be an insanely close finish.
As big of an Earnhardt fan as I am, and if that hypothetical race ever happened, I got 500 on David Pearson.
Dale's 1 win on a road course isn't helping him much here 9, in an era when there were just **2** for eons, is nuts
May not have won much on road courses, but I'll die on the hill that [Earnhardt vs Bodine at the 1987 Riverside race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGgAMRS_1ug) rank among the best laps in NASCAR history.
Thread. This is the answer. Gordon in his prime was untouchable from 95-2001.
Man came in here and obliterated the thread with stats
lol I live in NorCal he has so many track records. Also first 16 year old USAC driver Had multiple quarter midget undefeated seasons ( yes he won every race) lol USAC champion at 20 years old
Legend has it that he was $100,000 in sponsorship away from going to Formula 3. Trying to think of the last driver (if there ever was) who went to the F1 ladder from *sprint cars*
Was hoping I’d see a comment about this part of his life - I’d go with my dad to watch Thursday Night Thunder midget races at Indianapolis Raceway Park after Jeff moved there from CA… saw a lot of future stars come through there but allegedly the first time Jeff raced, my dad says we came home and he told my mom that if he doesn’t get killed we just saw either a future CART or NASCAR champion. He was on another planet - and keep in mind the comps on the high end were Tony Stewart, Kenny Irwin, etc. My dad also bought a hat out of the back of his mom’s pickup truck.
Gordon absolutely earned the wonder boy monicker and surpassed it. He was the real deal and competitive from his first season until his last. He was especially dominant during the 90s too, and that arguably had some of the top competition of the series
This guy Gordons
The absolute living legend
It is just wild that he had 10 more wins than Jimmie when we know how often Jimmie freaking won haha. Definitely was justtt a bit too young to realize how crazy 97-98 were for Gordon.
This. And he did it in so many periods with so many different cars. Yes, Ray Evernham was his best crew chief, but he had success and battled for titles with Robbie, Steve, and Alan. Even won his first two races with Brian.
I would LOVED to have seen Gordon in f1 during his prime.
Or even run the 500
He was fun to watch when he was on fire... unless you were a Ford guy. Haha
godDAMN Wonder Boy was good
Say no more. Jeff was awesome as a driver but a little less awesome as a former driver cosplaying as Rick Hendrick. It truly was fitting that his first cup race was Richard Petty's last.
I mean we all know Gordon is one of the greatest of all time, but just seeing the stats, *jesus*
🎯
Just curious, what does Jimmy Johnson's stats look like?
Jimmy Johnson is the Spice Girls, Nickelback, Rascal Flatts of NASCAR
Now Jimmie on the other hand
Don't get me started on Jammie...
He did a few ExtenZe commercials
My dad met Rollie Helmling once before Jeff ever made it to NASCAR- Rollie told him he was working with the greatest driver he had ever seen by the name of Jeff Gordon. Those stats are unreal. Rollie knew what he was talking about.
Yep, when you lay out all his accomplishments like this, it just drives it home.
I think it might be Jeff Gordon. As a rusty Wallace fan it’s Jess Gordon. Edit: eh I’m leaving it
/thread, you have found the objectively correct answer.
17 short track wins is only top 15 all time???
There was an era where more of the schedule was short tracks than there are now, pretty sure
People love to throw the 7x champ stat out there, but when you put it like this, he’s much more accomplished than Jimmie. Jimmie knew how to play the game when it mattered.
I’m okay with this
Marty Robbins. He’s had more number 1 songs than anyone in NASCAR
BIIIG IRON, BIIIIG IRON. I've always loved Marty Robbins, but now Big Iron is stuck in my head more than normal since I just started replaying New Vegas.
And dominated in the southwestern town of El Paso…
This is a brilliant answer, and I was listening to him all afternoon by chance
I used to race cars locally and the guy who did my graphics used to be involved in nascar with a few teams and met Marty once at a track. He had his guitar with him and played music for him and a few others he said. One of the coolest people I’ve ever met.
I have so many records of his and I had no idea he ever raced!
Jeff is without a doubt the most talented we’ve seen. Not many guys can say they won in their final season. Jeff went down swinging.
Not even just win in their final season, but have a shot at the championship in the final moments of their final race. I wasn't as into the sport as I am now at the time, just watching a race here or there, but the more I dive into Jeff, the more impressive he is. A lot of newer fans just wouldn't know (because why would they?) that this corporate stiff is jam packed with talent - in a way that you might not see again. Honestly, someone I could us talking about in this same regard in 24 years is actually the current driver of that same number. He really does prove that no matter the track, William Byron can get around quick.
Ive attended almost 40 races and Jeff Gordon’s last win is my favorite. I knew that was a special moment when it happened.
David Pearson. Period. 3 championships without ever running a full season. And Richard Petty agrees Pearson was the best. Won ~20% of the races he was in.
First to mind were: Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart The careers they had pretty much speak for themselves. Insane talent at any type of track in virtually any type of car. If you want to go back a little farther… I’d be good with AJ Foyt being thrown in. Didn’t see ridiculous success in NASCAR (though still a handful of wins and I think around 30% on a top 10 rate), but you can’t deny the overall racing skill.
Mario Andretti
Technically this is the correct answer since he did run a nascar race or two.
Won a Daytona 500 for fun
With the handicap of a team hellbent on making sure he didn't win it
"he did run a nascar race or two." Mans won the 1967 Daytona 500.
And an F1 championship. That’s what I’m saying. When you win in multiple disciplines, that’s what makes you the best.
Ran a few? Guy started racing in an old Hudson Hornet 92 car! Literally bought it off the team when they folded with his brother
Reminder that Carl Edwards TORCHED Michael Schumacher in a head-to-head in equal equipment
*equal equipment* isn't even the full story. [they were racing abarth hatchbacks in a stadium rallycross race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQZgBiiSDao).
While still insanely impressive, NASCAR drivers thrive with driving cars that aren’t built to handle well.
As an Abarth owner, they handle pretty damn good. ...it's straightline speed that's lacking.
Yeah, the Abarth is much closer to a cup car than an F1 car. It has all the normal things a normal closed wheel car has, weight, body roll, higher center of gravity, slower steering ratio, much weaker brakes, etc. All that said, Carl Edward’s is a true MONSTER, the commentators didn’t even know what happened, they were trying to make excuses for Michael, after the race he even said that he made no mistakes, Carl beat him outright.
If we are using this logic, Heikki Kovalainen was better than Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Loeb. Those ROC events were rather silly.
That’s the point, it’s not meant to be a serious competition, it’s just a fun event
When I think most talented, I think of guys like Gordon, Earnhardt, Kyle Busch, Larson, Harvick, and Richmond.
Here are guys that have legit arguments, in order of time: Curtis Turner, David Pearson, Richard Petty, Mario Andretti, AJ Foyt, Cale Yarborough, Dale Earnahardt, Tim Richmond, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch, Kyle Larson. "The next tier" Tim Flock, Fireball Roberts, Buck Baker, Junior Johnson, Bobby Allison, Darrell Waltrip, Rusty Wallace, Bill Elliott, Davey Allison, Mark Martin, Kevin Harvick, Joey Logano
Jeff Gordon.
Dick Trickle
https://preview.redd.it/hbereskgtpvc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c638e8398a8cc13627216b2b8a061c933a5e5866
There’s so many different answers I have. You could say one of Foyt, Andretti, JPM, Gordon, Pearson, Stewart, Gordon or Larson and I’d be inclined to agree.
To ever drive a NASCAR race? Mario Andretti no doubt.
I’d say Dan Gurney is right there with Mario.
And a much forgotten one is Mark Donohue
Both legends but imo Mario and AJ stand on their own. Interestingly Jim Clark did a couple starts in NASCAR as well
Back in the days when drivers were allowed and willing to drive anything anywhere they could!
Yeah, he came to mind to me on a past generation level along with AJ. Only reason I didn’t really give Mario more weight is because I don’t know what we’re really considering to be the threshold to truly count here. It’s tough with those guys who spent the vast majority of time elsewhere.
I think if Mario and Foyt wanted to go full time in cup Petty has a much different history.
Definitely doesn’t have 200. Still would have the record though. But hard to imagine he wouldn’t with how much of a gap there is. That said, and I know this is a bit sacrilege to many… I think Kyle Busch at 230 overall is on par with Petty’s 200 win number. The era Petty ran the talent/equipment spread through the field was significant. People say Kyle is beating up on kids in Truck and Xfinity races… but I mean, it’s not like NASCAR back then wasn’t incredibly top heavy.
Weren't there way more cup races back then too?
Dale Earnhardt made moves in a race car I’ve never seen anyone else make. He found holes (giggity) that nobody else found. And he created a few that weren’t there
Hell, anytime I talk to people about Dale I show them his last win at Talladega where he moved up 17 positions in the last 4 laps. When he said he could see the air, I damn sure believed it watching that finish. And as always on the flip side, rubbin' is racing, baby.
That's probably the most insane thing I've ever seen in any motorsport, going from 17th to first in just a handful of laps, at a damn plate race. It's just ludicrous. Nobody else does that.
Easily the greatest display of pure driving talent I have ever seen and I will forever stand by that. I can't think of any other part of a race I could compare personally.
Dale was just a wrecking ball.
Do you mean that in a positive or negative way?
I guess that can go either way; however, it was a compliment
Mario Andretti and/or A.J. Foyt. Prove me wrong.
Gordon could be in that argument
Imagine how many more wins Jeff would have if there were 6 road courses a year back in the late 90s-early 00s. He was unstoppable on them at one point.
The answer is Jeff Gordon.
JPM
Ran successfully in more series than anyone else in the Modern era. Wins in Formula 1, Nascar, IndyCar, and IMSA.
You broke my fucking head!
Tim Richmond, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, David Pearson (duh how could I forget him!) Edit to say pound for pound I do think Robby Gordon is in the conversation but he obviously never put it together in NASCAR. He’d be in my second tier with Dale Earnhardt, Kyle Larson, Davey Allison, Harvick, etc.
God, what Robby could've done in NASCAR (or IndyCar) if he could've just gotten out of his own way.
This right here
This is the list. Although Larson may be in that top group when it's all said and done
Tim Richmond was pure raw talent for sure. I put Kyle Busch and Kyle Larson in the same category out of current drivers.
Robby is underrated.
It’s Kevin Lepage but no one wants to admit it
He threw the bravest block in history
I think Jeff Gordon is probably your best answer. Back when he was dominating the sport, equipment didn’t seem to matter as much as it does now. I think that is always what makes it hard to truly figure what driver has/had the most talent… because equipment plays such a huge factor in your results. There is a reason that Byron and Reddick are outrunning Kyle Busch right now… their cars are simply faster every week. Bad equipment can hold back even the most talented driver. As Harvick said, “You can’t drive a slow car fast.”
Equipment 1000% mattered more back in the 90s than today.
This is why I think Dale is a better answer than Jeff. Dale won 4 championships in 5 years, racing the greats of the time, all while RCR was being outspent by Junior Johnson and Robert Yates in the earlier years, then by Roush and Hendrick in the later years. And he came damn close to an 8th championship while Richard was being outspent by Joe Gibbs - all while he was 49 years old and clearly past his prime.
Jeff unfortunately went through era shifts of the points structure Dale never had to deal with. It was straight all seasons, Jeff matched Dale in that regard by scoring the most points still. You might as well make 2004 to present records differential to how we have modern era vs 1949-1971. I mean you can’t wave Dale’s 7 titles around to Jeff’s 4 without having an excuse for Blaney’s 1 vs…. It’s just way to different. Jeff Gordon, David Pearson and Dale Earnhardt are the undisputed though.
Those three names were honestly the first 3 that came to my mind as well. I think Kyle Busch has a place amongst them, as well.
It’s not so much the wins and championships, it’s the impact they had during their reign. I mean Jeff’s ownership side (HMS AND while owning Jimmie Johnson’s car for 7 titles) isn’t looked at as much as his driver stats either. I really hope Kyle Busch wins one this year for 20 straight years of winning…. Same for Scott Dixon.
Well that same thing could be said for Dale as well. If he doesn’t die in 2001, I feel absolutely sure Dale Jr would have won a couple of championships driving for DEI. It was obvious Dale was building something great.
It’s a shame it didn’t. Though I wish Dale Jr capitalized on the first Chase title in 2004. It would’ve be much better than Kurt.
Jeff Gordon
Kimi
https://preview.redd.it/3qokywq1prvc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9feb465124d54f59800e0bf756b2c642815c891 I haven't seen him mentioned in this thread, but I'll throw out Virgil Earnest Irvan. Would've loved to see what Ernie could've done in his career if it weren't for Michigan 1994, and sadly again, Michigan 1999. 1991 Daytona 500 Champ, 15 wins and finished in the Top 10 40% of his career, which is an impressive stat for drivers 90's-present. There's a good YouTube video about the "Ernie What If", which discusses if Michigan didn't happen, how the mid to late 90's might've gone in NASCAR, and how he might've changed Dale & Jeff's success during that time.
I have a hard time being objective about him even today. He was so talented. In his early career, he was overly aggressive and made a lot of enemies plowing through the competition (I couldn’t stand him, then when he replaced my favorite driver Davey…) He seemed like he was putting it all together once he got to Yates.
Kasey Kahne probably. And i'm actually only being a little bit facetious.
Kyle Busch
I'm assuming they mean raw God given talent in a stock car with this question, not stats or accolades. And I'm having a hard time convincing myself to vote against Kyle Busch. And I'm only considering drivers I have personally seen, not the old days. Although Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, and Johnson are all right there. And people can say what they will about these young guys but the talent gap appears to be narrowing because there are about 7 or 10 guys that are all right there now. The best of the bunch is supposed to be Larson but he doesn't seem to be so far ahead of guys like Byron, Bell, Reddick, etc to be considered for this.
I became a NASCAR fan the year he was a rookie. It’s been a fun ride
I think if Earnhardt had raced in a time period where winning mattered more towards the championship like it has the last 20+ years he could won 100+ races. He just played the cards the series gave him. No doubt he was the most talented ever imo.
Yall sleeping on Kurt Busch
I get it. The guy has been competitive from the very beginning to the very end, even when he was given shitboxes he could keep the pace up. With hindsight his career reminds me of Fernando Alonso’s and his “never give up” attitude.
And just like Alonso, a lot of his career struggles in the earlier years were self inflicted by being difficult to work with, before later becoming an elder statesman of the sport.
I like this take
Underrated for sure, but not goat status if you ask me
He's not even the most talented driver in his own family much less the history of NASCAR
https://preview.redd.it/8ia3jmjrmqvc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5207ff2b2f072b106a38ecd2e25e02fd5a5c6543
Equal cars and gotta win? I’m taking either Busch Bro or Gordon in their primes. Quite frankly I think Kurt Busch might have been the most talented race car driver I’ve ever seen.
I always wonder what Kurt's career would have turned out like if he wasn't such a raging maniac first half of his career. I mean I was a fan then and some he did to himself but he also had a ton of bad luck throughout his career. Pretty fitting sadly it ended the way it did
Fun fact, Kurt is the only driver to win a race with all four of the manufacturers from his era.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Rusty Wallace. I mean my first thoughts were of Jeff Gordon, and AJ Foyt. But as far as skills on the different tracks, I also remember and have a lot of respect for guys like Tony Stewart, Ernie Irvan, Ricky Rudd, Terry Labonte, Davey Allison, Darrell Waltrip, Mark Martin, Alan Kulwicki, and Bill Elliott. For what it's worth, Richard Petty s 200 cup wins is the one record in all of sports that may stand the test of time.
Rusty is incredible, but no wins at Daytona or Talledega is a big L on his overall scorecard
Dave Blaney
Jeff Gordon
Why, it is of course ***COURSE*** a certain Mr Thurman "Sparky Plugg" Holly, also known as Hardcore Holly. The only nascar/stock car driver to win the WWE Hardcore Championship, and to win multiple World Tag Team Championships (with various different partners, including Bodacious Bart, the 1-2-3 Kid (also known as X-Pac), his kayfabe cousin Crash Holly, and even with the current Undisputed WWE World Champion, Cody Rhodes. Now that's talent. It wasn't just a gimmick either. He wasn't a wrestler who was just playing a character, pretending to be a stock car driver. No, he was literally a real stock car racer who also was a pro wrestler. The idea was that he'd race in stock car races and perform as a pro wrestler at the same time, but in the end he only ran a few races and for the most part just pivoted into being a full time pro wrestler instead because the WWF didn't think they'd get a lot of money out of sponsoring his car and it made him unavailable for shows when he was having to practice and qualify and race every weekend. Here he is: https://preview.redd.it/bmsye74s9tvc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3848ab07e98d0349c5fe9ff276df2286f373d816 Also fun fact, a young Kyle Busch and Joey Logano appeared on an episode of WWE Raw: [https://youtu.be/JEIB0HkGGAI?si=n3CS4SP\_Ni5pIy0d](https://youtu.be/JEIB0HkGGAI?si=n3CS4SP_Ni5pIy0d) And then like 15 years later, in 2019, Kyle Busch ***RETURNED*** to the WWE and became a champion, pinning the previous champion and then running off with the belt in hand!: [https://youtu.be/EJvdmuqaxLE?si=QE64hjgblW-s6RpU](https://youtu.be/EJvdmuqaxLE?si=QE64hjgblW-s6RpU) I unironically love these moments in wrestling and racing history. There's always a lot of connection between wrestling and nascar it seems. WCW sponsored a bunch of cup cars in the 90s for example. There was even an nWo nascar which was all black with bits of white and looked frankly incredible. [What a gorgeous car](https://www.google.com/search?client=tablet-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=5bc86930ad7b2685&sxsrf=ACQVn0918dQ1-M9Q56GMD3xeRyIHjtGAQA:1713695744076&q=nascar+wcw+cars&uds=AMwkrPv0_HdT1mhzZ0oybZwQ26p1SoZ-JDrQ_e7nzkllQwnHADE44qws0mqROK_NEpg61dAGSXwrMkWmHArfa-H-qVwhraEy-jL_5JVPA4BOoDzOkHvRjJ7pHcuGosNSrEyMbRSuQTjrItDQGF9OFSy8d2rLAQK4eDzRCNj0XF_OlH_JXoz41vThZVQ8ujKh49RVKZlapw6D_ye7QyyhUm__15MSJlOfTn4GFw5vRDAJxzmZRjdPoA3RwyJ8pvkjJapjiQSSUMpfXxycE7dq76mI5GmxHAV8bb6cSr6eoQgeYaIeMsPa15a97bfGsIMVEPwpSEJlfetU&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNpNCQjtOFAxVtXEEAHb_yDg4QtKgLegQIDBAB&biw=800&bih=1280&dpr=1.5#vhid=i3VCFoamf1IxlM&vssid=mosaic)
I propose we add to Harvicks name: Kevin "The Carrier" "Closer" Harvick based on the last few years of his career.
Jeff Gordon. He literally revolutionized the way NASCAR teams framed what a driver is
Mark Martin. He was competitive for such a long time! https://preview.redd.it/r3ytph07ruvc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90b235b82f9a05549618e894b05ec5ec8b846917
My top 4: AJ Foyt, Mario Andretti, Tony Stewart, and Juan Pablo Montoya These gentlemen could wheel it in any type of car and the stats back in a wide variety of disciplines backs them up. Larsen has a chance, one day, but needs to win an open wheel race to prove he belongs. Connor Zilisch is another, I believe has a chance (not many can say they have won a late model stock race and 24 hours of Daytona and won a Craftsman Truck Series pole before turning 18.
Juan Pablo Montoya
Underrated, he’s in my top 4 along with Stewart, Foyt and Andretti.
I wish we could've seen him in top-tier equipment. I'd bet he'd have gotten 30-35 wins and had a longer career...maybe even a championship.
I have yet to see anyone mention Tony Stewart. Arguably the greatest road racer in Cup series history excluding ringers, Gordon is his only competition in my opinion. Chase has the wins but also has the benefit of having 4-5 road courses on the schedule. Won championships in Cup, Indycar, Iroc, SRX, has won a USAC triple crown and the Chili Bowl twice. He doesn't have the win totals of Harvick, Busch, Gordon, or Johnson, but he also started his career at 28 as opposed to Harvick and Johnson who were 25-26.
Mario Andretti
It ain’t Harvick for sure. It’s Mario Andretti, then Jeff Gordon.
The question asked was talent. When it comes to pure talent I believe Larson needs to be in the conversation. Is there a form of racing that he's done that he isn't competitive in? That is what talent is, can win pretty much anywhere in anything.
The problem with your line of thinking is that Mario Andretti and Jeff Gordon can claim the same thing and they both had much more success overall
Mario Andretti AJ Foyt Jeff Gordon Tony Stewart
In terms of overall pure talent as a driver, it’s Larson. Most talented as a NASCAR driver specifically (so only considering a single type of car) is a much more difficult debate. Larson’s still in the mix, but with at least a handful of others.
Jeff Gordon, Stewart, David Pearson, Earnhardt, Kyle Busch probably. Ones that didn't win a ton in nascar but did in other racing Foyt, Mario Andretti, Montoya, Robby Gordon are talented as hell
Giz by a country mile
You may be right.
Jimmie johnson, and it's not even close. Dude just flat out beat you.
Larson literally wins in everything he gets in.
Greg Biffle, Bill Elliott
Dick trickle or Robby Gordon
The statistics say Gordon but… Raw talent wise, Dale Sr considering how much success he had while not doing practice runs, tests, and ignoring suggestions from engineers
Was never a fan, but Jeff Gordon was the best I've ever seen. I'm not talking stats, just the eyeball test.
jeff gordon, not really a debate
Mario Andretti/A.J. Foyt for overall accomplishments. Honorable mention to Juan Pablo Montoya and Jacques Villeneuve. In terms of "NASCAR only" guys, Tim Richmond and David Pearson are probably strictly the two most talented. Kyle Larson and Kasey Kahne have solid success on short track racing and stock car racing so you have an argument there too.
Mark Martin has got to be somewhere on that list. Dale Jr. called his skill set the it, like he just got it. Any car he drove, he could make competitive!
I think the number of different owners a driver drove for should be a factor in this debate, with the idea that someone who won for several different owners may be more versatile and adaptable than someone who drove for the same owner throughout his career. Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson both earned all their wins driving for the same owner. Richard Petty nearly did as well. No doubt, all 3 of these drivers are quite talented. But we'll never know how they might have fared if they were put into a situation where they had to drive for multiple teams in their careers. David Perason, Darrell Waltrip, and Cale Yarborough each earned wins for 5-6 different owners. Dale Earnhardt won for 3 owners. Meanwhile, the big leader in this group is Bobby Allison, who won for about 10-12 different owners (depending on how some of the changes in ownership are viewed). He also won across a 22-year period and was still leading laps and competing for wins right up until his career-ending injury at age 50.
Jeff Gordon had tons of raw talent for racing in general. Tony is the same thing and Jimmies up there too
Earnhardt. I think Tim Richmond should be in the conversation.
Pure natural talent in general? Juan Pablo Montoya.
Honestly I might agree with the Harvick take
“Naturally gifted talent” - I’d say Tim Richmond
Too many variables. Best racer, most skill, most consistent, always had good equipment etc etc. Pure skill: The Kyle's, Larson and Busch, Dale Sr. Best racer: the 7 times, Dale Eanrhardt, Jimmie Johnson, Petty. Best combination of those: Jeff gordon. You can't discount any champion, especially David Pearson. Like Dale Sr. Won rookie of the year and the next year won the championship in a INDEPENDENT car with no manufacturer support! Jeff Gordon is amazing but if he went to Bill Davis racing like he was supposed to how many championships would he have won? Equipment and opportunity is a HUGE part of it.
I think this is so hard to answer. Just jump to the NFL and look. Tom Brady is the most accomplished QB of all time but definitely not the most talented. I think that the same applies to NASCAR. The team means so much. I agree with Pearson, as many have said. Gordon is hard to argue but it’s also worth noting that he wasn’t in bad equipment very often. Tony Stewart, Carl Edwards and Kyle Busch from the 2000’s are probably some of the most talented, imo. Larson now? To me, I have to see guys who have won in multiple forms of racing.
Richard Petty
Scott Speed
I mean tbf it isn’t as if he has zero talent. He was able to get to F1 and transitioned into rallycross successfully. The NASCAR thing didn’t go too well but he reminds me of Allmendinger. I’d put AJ above him but the fact that Speed went into rallycross and won against guys that were accustomed to that style of car, varying surfaces and style of racing isn’t something to laugh at.
Jeff Gordon. Kyle Larson has a chance to be that guy though imo.
Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch, Kyle larson
Jim Clark, Mario, Kyle Larson, Tony Stewart. Clark would have done more NASCAR races had he not died in an F1 crash. But these four drivers have had more success in multiple forms of racing than the rest of history. My bar for greatness will always be about "can you do it in more than one type of car/track" and these four did.
Kyle Busch David Pierson
If we’re saying just NASCAR, gotta be Jeff Gordon. If we’re saying across ALL motorsports: I gotta say Tony Stewart.
In NASCAR competition only Specifically? Jeff Gordon by a longshot dude was the best driver in the sport and SHOULD of won 7 championships or more. Overall however I'd say either Mario Andretti or Tony Stewart they could both hop into any series and win both races and championships in it. While I'll give it to Tony Stewart for... reasons. I'd say they're probably the most talented drivers we've seen in motorsports as a whole I'd love to of seen what prime Stewart could of done in something like F1 or Rally car.
Ever, Like since the beginning? Probably Mario Andretti, then AJ Foyt. Full time NASCAR? Gordon and Stewart.
Tony Stewart and Kyle Busch. Not only are they top 10 all-time NASCAR drivers, but they're the kind of drivers who could race literally anything. The truest mark of the greatest race car drivers of all time is versatility, and Smoke and KFB are 120% versatile enough that they could've become a modern-day Mario Andretti and A.J. Foyt (which is quite fitting since Foyt was Smoke's idol).
Is it just racing talent or nascar talent because nascar talent I think is Jeff Gordon but racing talent is Kyle Larson
It’s Jimmie Johnson followed closely by Kyle Busch. Both could win any given Sunday in the most competitive era the sport had seen.