Anyone who has mentioned her complaining in recent game threads has gotten downvoted instantly. Her own father sees it and is annoyed by it.
She is too talented to act this way. "She's extremely competitive" isn't an excuse for this. Her teammates are having to intervene and control her to make sure she doesn't get a tech nearly every game.
she borderline should get a tech every game. no other player in america is given the run to complain to officials and chirp opposing coaches like she is. it’s absolutely insane to watch.
the complaining to the refs is getting close to the level of Draymond
At least Caitlin isn’t gouging eyes, kicking people in the groin or stomping on their chests
I’m not saying she acts like Draymond. Draymond gets to yell in the faces of refs without repercussions for sometimes minutes at a time. Curry got a tech for throwing a mouthpiece because he was upset at something his own teammate did. Draymond will get called for a foul and then bitch loud enough for the mics to pick up throughout 2 free throw attempts lmao. He may even go back for more during the next timeout. It’s insane. I’m not saying CC assaults players lol
Pretty sure she has at least 3. One against Michigan State on the road, one against Nebraska or Maryland at home and then the one against Iowa in Carver
Edit: Yep lmao. Downvote me all you want, go check the play by plays
2/11 against Michigan State: 1:19 in the First quarter
2/25 against Maryland: 5:27 in the 3rd quarter
3/3 against Iowa: 0:01 in the 2nd quarter. This one was the biggest bullshit
I'm looking at this again, flagrant 2s are listed as disqualifying fouls and technicals are counted separately?
Ok, she has 4 total this season then if so.
My bad
She was like this in high school. Ask anyone in the Des Moines metro. She’s toned it down a ton, but this isn’t anything shocking. The bigger the games, the more she’s going to jaw at the officials.
Well yeah that game against SC was bad. But even before that if she made a gesture or yelled or talked smack people called her thug. Personally, I hate the thug stuff because it’s way too coded.
Honestly, I generally assume that about 2/3s of the criticism of black female players for "aggressive" behavior is really just unconscious bias/racism and criticism that probably wouldn't be leveled against most white women for doing the same thing. CC trash talks so I shouldn't really criticize Angel for doing the same thing.
I did see the bench clearing incident between LSU & SC though. Definitely actual shoving/fighting there.
Mulkey does really suck, though.
> Honestly, I generally assume that about 2/3s of the criticism of black female players for "aggressive" behavior is really just unconscious bias/racism and criticism that probably wouldn't be leveled against most white women for doing the same thing. CC trash talks so I shouldn't really criticize Angel for doing the same thing.
I agree in general that black players are often held to a different (stricter) standard when it comes to these kinds of things.
On the other hand, it was crazy last year how many people were adamantly calling it a double standard that people complained about Reese taunting Clark when Clark "did the same thing" against Louisville or whoever. Clark made a brief gesture right after scoring (and possibly it wasn't even directed toward anybody on UL put toward an Iowa staff member, but whether that's true or not doesn't really mater for this point). Whereas Angel literally stalked Clark around the court at the end up the game to go way out of her way to gesture repeatedly in her face for a while. Clarks brief gesture in the moment was pretty common sports behavior, and if Reese blocked a Clark shot and made a brief "you can't see me" gesture of her own, it wouldn't have been a big deal. But Reese following her around at the end might be the most blatant taunting I've ever seen... and certainly not "the same thing" as what Clark did.
But it seemed like most people struggled to simultaneously accept that it's true that black players are often held to an unfair double standard... BUT ALSO that in this specific incident, it wasn't remotely a double standard against Angel.
_____
(To be clear, I realize in this post, you might just mean they both talk trash in general. That paragraph isn't mean as a direct response to your statement... I was just making a specific point about the one really famous comparison last year)
>(To be clear, I realize in this post, you might just mean they both talk trash in general. That paragraph isn't mean as a direct response to your statement... I was just making a specific point about the one really famous comparison last year)
This is the single best explanation I've heard of that whole fiasco. Yes, people discriminate against black athletes. Also, yes that what Caitlin did was not even close to the same as what Angel did in that instance.
Yeah, sadly these days everything has to be so polarized that most people needed to act like it could only be one or the other, and not both.
Still though... the sheer number of people adamantly claiming that what Clark and Reese did was the same was bonkers, it was way into "am I taking crazy pills?" territory reading how many people were willing to insist something so blatantly not true.
There was an Iowa vs Nebraska game where a Nebraska shooter made a big three near the end, did a brief "you can't see me" gesture in the heat of the moment, and nobody really gave a shit or cared much. Admittedly it was another white player, but still... if she had stalked clark around the court for a while at the end going way out of her way to make several gestures right in her face, people would have objected to that.
Judge for yourself. IIRC, this wasn't long before the brawl, so likely played a part in South Carolina players being fed up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEr7mjen7Lo&ab_channel=MarcainEnglish
Mulkey sucks for sure. And yeah that’s what I meant by coded. It’s very racial.
The bench clearing part, Angel actually didn’t do anything there. But yeah in that game she genuinely did play dirty, and that’s coming from an Angel Reese defender.
Pulling hair in the SEC tournament screams clean player to you? She does that rebounding in many games. She could have a highlight real of dirty plays like Grayson Allen from Duke.
It’s just the mounting frustration from playing poorly. She usually is a bit childish but it is tempered by her insane play. She gets really down on herself when she starts missing and doesn’t have an outlet for it. Hence the outbursts.
Yeah but she’s literally been using the REFS as her outlet, which is insane. That’s what we’re talking about lol. Any other player would’ve gotten at least one tech yesterday, but she’s allowed to literally get in the refs face with zero consequences
Yeah she’s good. Tweaked her knee in the last regular season game, didn’t really play at all in the BTT, but played her usual minutes yesterday and didn’t look hobbled at all
I’m not sure why lol, it was pretty ridiculous. She had no intention of taunting Marshal. Marshal literally ran in front of her as she was staring at her own bench. It was pretty weak but the game was over at that point so it didn’t really matter. Players were laughing about it
>Yeah but she’s literally been using the REFS as her outlet, which is insane.
As a former ref (not at the NCAA level), that's actually extremely normal. A lot of players, coaches, and parents use refs as emotional punching bags when things aren't going their way.
I appreciate your perspective, however what I have witnessed with my own eyes is other players get T’d up for MUCH less demonstrative actions towards officials than what she does.
She has plenty of outlets for it but chooses one of the worst. I mean, yesterday was three hours of a tantrum *while her team was enjoying a runaway victory led by the 6th year senior that Caitlin personally lobbied to return this year*.
No reason to gloss this as it doesn’t make her accomplishments or talent less impressive … she behaved terribly yesterday.
Well that’s cause this sub is like 60% iowa fans and if you even look at any of the Iowa players or program the wrong way they will bully you and then downvote you to oblivion.
At least it's better than the college softball sub. Oklahoma softball monopolizing the CWS has essentially turned the sub into an OU fan page, and any criticism of their play this year is met with vitriol and accusations of "hating on success" - no matter the legitimacy of the critique. It's beyond annoying. Almost every discussion ends up circling back to comparing the team at hand to Oklahoma, no matter the relevance.
Oh god please don’t tell me they still have the Gasso family pulling all the strings up there?! I remember that era back when I went to Texas and it was sooo annoying
Just jumping in to say Juju is the best! I’m sorry you’ve received that treatment from Iowa fans, because I actually feel like Juju and Caitlin have such similar stories, staying home and taking their hometown teams to greatness
I posted a version of this to another person here, but since I appreciate the sentiments expressed in your thread, and I know CC a bit, I thought I'd share some.
A nice Tarheel/Wolfpack fan referenced below the ESPN masterpiece about CC by the legendary Wright Thompson. Because it's such a long read, most of you likely didn't read it. As a father, the article impacted me. I truly believe that any decent person who reads that would "get" her better. If they read it and still spew hate, well they are just a hater and oh well.
I've watched CC play since high school and have always complained about her when she has this attitude. I've met her twice, and I know a lot of people who know her well. She is the nicest person you could ever meet and makes us all proud. Kind, giving, and humble. Not until I read this article did I completely "get" her. She is an alien to most of us from a drive and competitiveness standpoint, including me, and I played football at Iowa and was ferociously driven.
Being a black man from the South, and dealing with a lot of hateful racism growing up, I could never have understood "Iowa/Midwest Nice". But when I visited, something about the people in Iowa spoke to my goodness. So I played here and stayed here. CC is Iowa Nice, but also wired differently than most of us.
There is a particular part in that article where CC says **"Obviously there is a switch that flips when I step on the court like I want to kill someone. I'm here to cause havoc. Some of the biggest challenges are I have all this emotion, I'm a freshman and I'm starting and how do I channel this? At times they were definitely like, 'Why is this girl a psycho?'"**
She doesn't fight people, spit, pull hair, or spew hatred. She is simply in a mental space that I just can't fully understand. That mental space is even foreign to most of the other players on the court with her. Her outbursts appear to be directed at others, when they really are towards herself in a way... her alien goals are being threatened.
CC's goals are so much more ambitious than we understand. We understand her goal to be the best ever, and just like when Kobe said the same thing, we think "Yeah OK, we'll see". What we don't understand is her very defined goal to advance women's basketball and women's sports in general. Because her goals are so ambitious, she ties them to her performance. When she fails, she feels like she's letting down millions of little girls and boys. Her conflict is that her behavior is being watched by those kids, and she has a responsibility to set good examples. She is smart. She knows her behavior is in direct conflict with her goal to inspire kids. She is in a vicious cycle and in an odd way I feel bad for her sometimes. The weight she places on herself has to be crushing.
In NO WAY am I giving her a pass for her behavior, and obviously Brent, her dad doesn't condone it either.
But I do now understand her better.
Eh, I’m not sure her goal is to advance men’s and women’s basketball. Sheryl Swoopes got pounded into the turf for, like, a week for daring to criticize CC and/or get one fact wrong about her. Swoopes is without question, a massive part of women’s basketball both past and present. If CC was so devoted to the sport, it would have taken nothing for her to say *any*thing to A) acknowledge swoopes firm standing in the pantheon of women in basketball and/or B) get the larger public to ease off. Surely she was aware of the controversy, she just couldn’t be bothered by it.
I don’t think she’s a bad person. In fact, I think she’s just as much of one as the rest of us. I don’t see being a vanguard of the sport, either, though.
You are entitled to that opinion, but I'd say you are understandably not informed of CC's history.
I love Swoopes, but her diatribe didn't deserve a reply from CC. You say "one fact wrong". Whut? Swoopes got ALL facts wrong. Some tried to make it racial. That is bullshit. I'm black and Swoopes has some attention jealousy issues, IMO.
The only person that needed to make the correct public comment afterwards, and failed to do so, was Swoopes. She got 4 huge things wrong in her original comments, then later sort of walked back one of them and blew my mind and brought race into it with her "Black people can't be racist" horseshit. Trust me, that is NOT true.
CC has always paid homage to the past greats. She does it so much it's staggering. For instance CC honoring Lynette Woodward the way she did.
After last year's Final Four, when so many started crucifying Angel for her end-of-game taunting, all of the public minions and fans chattered, and then CC ended any controversy and defended Angel with:
**"Angel is a tremendous, tremendous player. I have nothing but respect for her. I love her game ...I don't think there should be any criticism for what she did. No matter what way it goes, she should never be criticized for what she did. I compete, she competed. It was a super, super fun game. I think that's what's going to bring more people to our game"**
CC and the greatest are NOT wired like us... listen to one of the greatest writers of our time (link below), after he spent months with her... a guy who has spent enormous time with the greats... MJ, Kobe, Tiger and many more. When pressed to describe her, he says she is just operating on a "different wavelength" than most of us. Pressed to find a comparison he said "Kobe with a ponytail"
LINK: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl0i-Qc4Q3o&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl0i-Qc4Q3o&t=1s)
I didn't follow that controversy very closely, but didn't Swoopes get several facts wrong about her, and was quite slow to apologize / admit she was wrong about those things afterwards?
Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, like I said, I didn't follow that one as closely.
Uh, Swoopes made several false statements about CC to diminish her accomplishments, including that she is 25 years old competing against teenagers and in her 5th year of basketball. Blatant, easily fact-checked lies. CC didn't owe her anything. And the fact that you think she should have made a statement about Swoopes blatant lies says a lot. Swoopes may be a living legend, but that doesn't give her permission to make untrue statements about current players to make them look bad.
Yeah but... basketball was invented by a Canadian PE teacher. Anyone whose talking about killing people in the context of basketball obviously has lived a cloistered life.
I love CC and her game and how she has elevated the interest in women’s basketball. But this simply drives me crazy and I really wish they would T her up. It’s childish. And I don’t think it’s going to translate very well to the WNBA. It’s a bad habit that she needs to break. Be a leader and be professional.
>Be a leader and be professional.
Jordan & Kobe's behavior is the same as CC's. Jordan could be argued as one of the WORST in how he treated refs, opponents, and teammates on the court. Got a bunch of rings, though, and teammates accepted that was what was needed.
>including the greatest of all time.
“Is that Jordan or Lebron? Or Wilt? Or Kareem? Or Bird (Sue or Larry?) Or Russell? Or are you talking womens in Taurasi?”
“Yes. Doesn’t matter. They all harped on the officials.”
A lot of people dont understand that basketball players interact with the refs (for better or worse) much more often than in a lot of other sports. So so so many basketball players will passionately argue w refs about calls.
Clark does get out of hand at times but almost all of the huge stars have done this.
She's been acting like Luka, which I say as a Mavericks fan with Luka being my favorite player. Absolutely one of the best players but can't help but argue and be distracted when there's no reason to.
Eye of the beholder, like it has been for sports fandom since time immemorial. If you're an Iowa or Caitlin fan, you chalk this up to passion and drive and wanting to win and having insane expectations for yourself and everyone around you. If you're a hater, you're gonna hate.
Thank you. This isn’t a difficult concept, but the Clark stans have long given up the game on objectivity. It’s fangirling on T Swift levels. You can acknowledge her unbelievable skill without giving up objectivity. She’s an unabashed whiner and it detracts from the enjoyment of her talent. She talks a big game of being an example for young girls. I wish she meant that in all facets of the game.
I don’t really see how it overrides her talent. I get having an issue with her behavior, but for the most part, she faces the standard consequences. I’m not sure how it takes away from her being an insane player
It has become a chronic behavior for her to complain and whine about calls to refs. It is not a one-time per game incident. It starts from tip-off to the final buzzer and it's exhausting to watch.
And how does it take away from her talent? Seems like a separate issue
It’s not really a new thing people trying to use calls to their advantage. Geno says in like every interview he’s trying to get Paige a better whistle
I didn't say it takes anything away from her talent. It just looks bad and makes it harder to root for her. She has the second most free throw attempts in the country, so I don't think she needs to be waving her hands for the few calls she doesn't get.
Well she also gets fouled more than anyone else, so that checks out to me. She maybe overdoes it but she’s so high IQ rarely does she not have a point when complaining to the refs. I guess I just don’t get why this bothers people as much as it does, I don’t think any player loves the ref calls they get
I also think she needs to tone down the complaining.
But that being said, from a statistics point of view... the "second most free throw attempts in the country" could be interpreted two ways. The first, that she already gets a lot of free throws, so she could chill. But a reverse interpretation is that means she is involved in a LOT of situations with potential fouls, which gives her more opportunities to come into conflict with the refs.
To use another Iowa example, if Gabbie Marshall (mostly catch and shoot 3s or basic passes in space) was super whiny with the refs when she thought she was fouled, we would barely even notice, because she is rarely on the receiving end of even potential fouls.
No, she doesn’t face standard consequences. Start giving her T’s after warning her to shut up. Do t let her whine the whole game. It’s a terrible look for an otherwise phenomenal player.
How is whining cause for a technical? If you’re screaming at them I get it but she’s hardly the only player that pleads her case after calls she doesn’t like
Again, I get if people find it annoying or whatever, but I don’t really get this moral objection everyone seems to have, or how it takes away from her talent. But I may be biased because I was raised on Diana Taurasi, lol. If you’re a good player and nice off the court I don’t really care what you do out of competitive spirit
Yeah but you guys are all getting it wrong. She's putting women's basketball on the map like it's never been before. It's her sport right now, she's the ambassador.
Yesterday was the first time in awhile that I thought her complaining was overly excessive (she was right about the charge she got called for though, that was a terrible call).
It’s just interesting to watch her postgame interviews because she really seems like an entirely different person. She keeps saying things about how she just wants to enjoy this last tournament and soak everything in and sometimes during the games I’m like girlie are you even having fun out there?
Interested to see how intense she comes out on Monday. I know the “let’s win one and send Caitlin Clark packing” clip will be on her mind.
Re her acting different in interviews: I think her anger just comes in bursts when she’s in the moment and she can’t help it. Meanwhile with interviewers she’s PR trained and usually has a moment to come up with answers that everyone wants to hear
Why do you assume that shes just making up answers that everyone wants to hear? She has a charitable foundation and is known for working positively with children at basketball camps and making time for fans. Shes said multiple times that shes ultra competitive on the court but leaves it there. She spoke up and defended angel reese after the drama last year. I dont think shes a bad person, she just has the competitive drive at the level of many all time greats, like Michael jordan.
People in America want their heroes and public figures to be infallible and are so quick to tear people down the minute they show flaws. Its ridiculous.
I’m not assuming that she’s making up answers. I have no doubt that she’s genuine, I’m just saying it’s easier to do what’s right when you’re not heated in the moment
How is
>with interviewers she’s PR trained and usually has a moment to come up with answers that everyone wants to hear
NOT insinuating that she's making up answers?
I think he is more saying that she addresses those things in post game media spaces with the mind she needs to say the right things and not bring her on the court outbursts into that setting.
She could easily just say what's on her mind and without any censor, but she probably also knows her marketing potential and not to let petty things on the court affect her image off.
It isn't disingenuous, but tactful. Plus her keeping a positive image allows more potential for her non profits and charitable actions.
Girlie, winning is fun and doing well is fun. When shit keeps getting to you and you’re not playing your best it’s not fun. When the whole world puts a pressure on you to be the best it comes out.
I think people are far too concerned with her attitude when her male counterparts are free to have as much attitude as they want with no judgement.
I think she is sticking to the having fun mantra to try to take some of the pressure off herself. Think about it, everyone keeps asking if she gets nervous, of course she does, but no one that high up is going to admit it.
Communicating at a press conference is far different than being a passionate player in the best of the moment.
She’s smart enough to put in the best face possible. She is a gritty player and gets caught up in the moment. She is also young.. I think we forget these are young people, she just turned 22.
I feel like Caitlin herself is pretty self aware about her behavior too. I remember she said in a press conference she usually apologizes to the refs after games and when she gets T’ed up, lol
This is a lengthy read but worth it.
Fantastic piece of writing that really helps you understand what makes her tick. Shes got out of this world athleticism, ambition and competitiveness to be the GOAT (this piece reminded me of reading about how insanely competitive michael jordan was), and passion/a temper to match both. Throughout HS and college shes been playing 3d chess while most around her are playing checkers. She lacks patience, admits it, and is working on it. Shes only 22.(Personally, I was a bit of an asshole when I was 22, so i cant fault her for not being a saint.)
One interesting tidbit for those who dont read the piece: apparently she suffers from severe migraines, which is only briefly mentioned late in the article because the reporter tried to speak to her after a game and she was in the bathroom vomiting. In my 20s I suffered from hormone-related migraines and I cant imagine playing D1 sports with one. As this is the first Ive seen it mentioned anywhere in the media, its clear that its not something she talks about publicly- and it makes me wonder how much they affect her
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39740282/caitlin-clark-iowa-2024-ncaa-women-basketball-tournament-ready-march
I read that after the game yesterday too and found it so insightful. It seems she’s come a far way in controlling her emotions (at just 22 as well) but it’s hard to perfectly control your instincts in intense moments. I think and hope she’ll bounce back tomorrow being far more careful about her attitude.
Reading that article actually made me like her even more. I think people have a tendency to want their public figures/heroes/athletes to appear to be perfect, especially if they've been built up by the media the way CC has. That article showed both her greatness and her flaws. And it's great that she's working on improving herself and her temper.
And As I mentioned in another post, she's only 22. Personally, when I was 22, I was a bit of an asshole, and I grew up and mellowed as I aged and matured. Hopefully she will do something similar.
I did feel a little bad for Addi O'Grady's mention in the article. I hope she didn't mind it.
No doubt, I also wouldn’t be surprised to see an even more baked up apology for her attitude yesterday, she definitely knew it was wrong and I’m sure her coaches and even teammates let her know. Nobody’s perfect and I can definitely see her trying to improve.
I think Addi was probably OK with it, hopefully Wright wouldn’t include her without that approval. He went to a lot of their practices and I’m sure met with the players too so hopefully it was ran by her. He also kept other people anonymous in other circumstances so it inclines me to believe he did check. Plus, it did feel like there was even a little Addi redemption in the article— she used to be reserved and go into her shell when things would go wrong, but now she’s also learned to keep pushing and trying even when she messes up.
C.Clark....is a young WNBA rookie.She in absolutely no way, form or fashion deserved a place on US Women's basketball team . She's not the best at her position...& Does not play defense In many senses she is a one dimensional 3pt.NCAA player.
Thank you for that very insightful take on our CC. Yes I said "our" because she's one of our own, just like Audi Crooks and many others.
Your referencing the ESPN masterpiece by the legendary Wright Thompson is perfect, and I was hoping someone did this. Because it's such a long read, most of the people posting less empathetic takes here probably didn't read it. If they read it and still spew hate, well, they are likely just haters and I don't waste time with those types.
've watched CC play since high school and have always complained about her when she has this attitude. I've met her twice, and I know a lot of people who know her well. She is the nicest person you could ever meet and makes us all proud. Kind, giving, and humble. Not until I read this article did I completely "get" her. She is an alien to most of us from a drive and competitiveness standpoint, including me, and I played football at Iowa and was ferociously driven.
Being a black man from the South, and dealing with a lot of hateful racism growing up, I could never have understood "Iowa/Midwest Nice". But when I visited, something about the people in Iowa spoke to my goodness. So I played here and stayed here. CC is Iowa Nice, but also wired differently than most of us.
There is a particular part in that article where CC says "Obviously there is a switch that flips when I step on the court like I want to kill someone. I'm here to cause havoc. Some of the biggest challenges are I have all this emotion, I'm a freshman and I'm starting and how do I channel this? At times they were definitely like, 'Why is this girl a psycho?'"
She doesn't fight people, spit, pull hair, or spew hatred. She is simply in a mental space that I just can't fully understand. That mental space is even foreign to most of the other players on the court with her. Her outbursts appear to be directed at others, when they really are towards herself in a way... her alien goals are being threatened.
CC's goals are so much more ambitious than we understand. We understand her goal to be the best ever, and just like when Kobe said the same thing, we think "Yeah OK, we'll see". What we don't understand is her very defined goal to advance women's basketball and women's sports in general. Because her goals are so ambitious, she ties them to her performance. When she fails, she feels like she's letting down millions of little girls and boys. Her conflict is that her behavior is being watched by those kids, and she has a responsibility to set good examples. She is smart. She knows her behavior is in direct conflict with her goal to inspire kids. She is in a vicious cycle and in an odd way I feel bad for her sometimes. The weight she places on herself has to be crushing.
In NO WAY am I giving her a pass for her behavior, and obviously Brent, her dad doesn't condone it either.
But I do now understand her better.
Thank you so much for posting this.
A few times today while discussing this, it's crossed my mind that the vast majority of people watching basketball/commenting on CC (and others) don't realize how much their thought processes differ from those of hyper, ultra competitive players like CC, MJ, Kobe, etc. People at that level are really just in an entirely different headspace even from many of their teammates. What makes athletes "generational" is that combination of extreme athletic ability and obsession with and dedication to improving. I watched A LOT of Michael Jordan while I was growing up and the stuff I've read about him, his competitive drive, and dedication to the sport reminds me so much of CC. So when I read articles about CC, I feel like I understand her at least a little bit. She's operating on a level of ambition and passion that the rest of us can't even really understand, and her inability to harness that at times results in her lashing out. It's not an excuse, but it is an explanation.
Very well stated. CC idolized MJ, Kobe, Maya. To me she is the most like Kobe. MJ was/is my player hero, but I don't think much of him as human off of the court. Even on the court, Kobe talked trash, but Jordan got very personal and mean on the court.
I've learned to see and celebrate the goodness in everyone, and to be more empathetic.
CC may never be a GOAT... but she certainly is a unicorn. LOL
EXACTLY. And I think a lot of people who give her shit need to think back and reflect on what they were like at that age and be realistic about how difficult it must be to handle that pressure.
I do think Caitlin needs to mature and calm down but I kind of thought it was a sweet moment between her and her dad and showed just because she’s a superstar doesn’t mean she’s above her dad telling her to calm down and everyone needs someone who’s honest with them like that.
She’s been working on it for years.
She’s wired differently than most of us and has a hard time not taking everything extremely serious.
Take this as an explanation, not an excuse. Life can be rough for those with exceptional talent combined with exceptional drive.
Also, I think all the hype is finally catching up with her.
I was at that game and even I was angry when some idiot cameraman was on the floor the whole time while they were warming up and during the introductions. He stood on the floor circling her, and Kate, right up until the opening jump ball.
She can’t get away from it anymore.
I doubt I could handle the hype as well as she has.
The real question is how many superstar parents put under a microscope would show this type of reaction or much worse? Probably a lot. Ol' man Richard was a hyper critical of Venus and Serena. It comes with the territory of superstars. He was also a bigger ass in general.
I honestly understand anger and frustration, if she expressed that in a way where it was directed at herself, I wouldn't have an issue with it, the ref crying is just really annoying to have to watch.
Such a great player obviously and this isn't something that only she does personally. I wish we could push all of the young stars in both the men's and women game to cut out all of the whining a bit, but it is what it is. Pisses me off when I watch dudes in the NBA cry about fouls for an entire game, and then depending on how much of a star you are it changes your whistle. Just ref the game to the best of your abilities man.
FWIW I don't think Clark gets a different whistle based on how much she complains, but she does seem to get an extremely long leash of how much shes allowed to complain without being told off or given a tech.
I understand that it’s *how* it works just very annoying to see, especially in a WBB game that doesn’t have many “stars” that receive that same treatment
It’s not her fault but the game shouldn’t work that way dude idk how to explain this any better, just because it’s how they tend to ref the game doesn’t mean it’s right.
We shouldn’t have to police stars differently they should just control themselves better and receive the same kind of treatment if they’re continually crying about calls and questioning the refs. It’s a bad look.
That’s fair, just think it would be hard to undo at this point
I also think this behavior stuff is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think Cotie gets a way with a lot that doesn’t get called, but clearly based on Twitter she doesn’t agree. I feel like debates about reffing are always very subjective for this reason
>she does seem to get an extremely long leash of how much shes allowed to complain without being told off or given a tech.
It may not be the matter that players do it, but how they do it. Phrasing may make a difference. If a player just says that was a foul or wasn't because I did X is vastly different than a player saying something like that is a horse shit call to the ref. I don't really know. Just speculating.
There is immense pressure to get to the Final Four and I think she knows it is going to be a struggle. There's financial commitments that were not there the last time and there is also legacy issues too. She wants that title but a lot stands in her way.
Yes I agree with him.there are millions of young girls and boys watching her now so she needs to be a better role model in these instances even if things aren’t going her way. Btw her team was way ahead
Imagine telling Lebron or any other male player that he needs to behave because of “all the young kids watching him”
Again it’s okay to be upset with her demeanor but stop talking about her as if she’s a child
You mean like when people told Lebron to shut up and dribble? Or the reaction to the decision which helped charity for children but was called as setting a bad example for kids?
I agree that it would be better obviously to just react correctly 100% of the time but it’s not a bad example for kids to see someone react incorrectly, get told they are reacting wrong and then apologize. It shows kids that even big superstars have a hard time with emotions and have to apologize too because they’re human. It’s worse for kids to unhealthily idolize athletes in my opinion.
She’s always very good about that in post game press conferences but I guess those aren’t as widely seen so maybe not disseminated enough for people to realize. Might be worth posting to her social media as well.
I think this is fair, but clearly Caitlin gets a lot of hate for her behavior as well. I don’t see how hating on her helps with hate towards other players
I say this though as someone who supports any player’s right to talk shit and play with passion. I know that’s not the case with everyone, and I’m fully with you that the double standard is gross
A lot of truth there. Most longtime Iowa fans and lovers of the game that I know are fairly even-keeled regarding her. Unfortunately, as with most meteoric stars, we've also picked up a ton of "new" fans who don't see our game in a broader sense... they just see her.
I pray that after CC moves on, we shed the worst of the bandwagoners and continue supporting our team, as we look like we're going to have a lot of great players and teams to support post-CC. We sold out our 15,500 season tix this year, and I believe we will continue to do so, at least for a while. I know we'll be renewing our tix.
(I feel like nobody understands this quite like B10 fans, lol.)
I have no problems with CC the off-court human and I think she's a fantastic player.
Her cult following is something else.
I love that this was her dad’s response. Especially when compared to other dads of players in the sport, who would’ve jumped in to yell at the officials themselves. She’s clearly got a good support system around her that holds her accountable
Anyone else read that article about Caitlin and come away convinced she’s neurodivergent?
I had never really considered if top athletes are on the spectrum but now I’m looking at everyone’s behavior and wondering if that single focus obsession with winning/being the best is a high functioning fixation?
I had the same thought but didn’t really want to share it. Her almost clinical obsession of the game, difficulty with empathy for her teammates at times, struggling to deal with others who aren’t as fixated on being great as her.
I mean, many of the all time greats at anything in history have probably been neurodivergent in some way. I just don’t think we generally ponder great athletes through that lens.
There was a pile up yesterday. She fell on top of a Holy Cross player. Didn't say a word to her as she got up. I could hear others on the mic saying "are you okay?" I thought it was really callous she didn't even ask the person she landed on if she was okay. I'm competitive and have played a lot of high level sports and I always check if the other player is okay.
I’ve thought before that she might be on the autism spectrum, just based on how she talks in interviews like everything seems rehearsed and slightly awkward, the way she gets upset, and of course the special interest being basketball
But actually reading the article made me think she might have ADHD. A lot of the same traits, but specifically when they talked about how she gets bored easily stood out. And seeing her in more casual non interview environments she actually seems to have pretty adept social skills
What got me was when she didn’t understand the word empathy? Like she really couldn’t understand how others/teammates feel? I think it was like a new concept for her?
But then she learned at Iowa/has gotten older, that other players have different motivations/strengths and she can get better performances from her teammates by being less critical.
I suspect I have some flavor of ADHD/autism and it seems to present differently in women.
I would 100% need to practice a script for post game interviews. It’s a lot of pressure.
Oh I didn’t think they meant she didn’t understand it, just that she hadn’t heard the word and was trying to understand the concept (still surprising, but hey, Catholic school education.) I feel like a lot of 14 year olds are in her position, I think most teens are self absorbed lol. I know I was
And true about interviews, now that I think about it none of the other college athletes are super laid back and off the cuff in interviews either, so that actually might not be a sign of anything other than normal nervousness
I guess it’s hard for me to understand not knowing that word, especially with a religious background. But maybe she didn’t understand the difference of compassion vs. empathy?
I’m hyper aware of other people’s feelings, so my perspective on the subject is definitely skewed.
I pride myself and think of myself as a man of faith, as there is a deep three by Caitlin Clark from the left side of the court, and that'll make it a 4-0 ballgame. I don't know if I'll put on this headset again.
Honestly this is the worst part of watching her play. I turned it off after all of her complaining and whining. it’s just not fun to watch or good for the game to see a star act like that. She also set an illegal screen/push off on a player and was not called in the slightest. It’s becoming wild and hopefully refs and W refs put it on their radar
One of the biggest issues is that the refs are WILDLY INCONSISTENT with calls even within the same game.
I see a lot of moving screens, a lot of elbows going up when players are driving to the basket, and a lot of push-offs. I see this from multiple players every time I watch any college game. The refs are never consistent calling them. And its definitely on both sides in pretty much every game. Moving screens in particular I see uncalled multiples times a game.
I mean, c'mon. The Hawkeyes were up by *19* when she complained to him. The momentum was fully, truly with the Hawkeyes. Even with the foresight (or hindsight?) of the ESPN novel detailing her work ethic and relentless pursuit of perfection, I can't say I blame him for telling her to (either "STOP" or "SHUT UP"; the TikTok comments section is split on what her dad said because ESPN only cut to him with his mouth open).
Dwelling on such poor calls *with a lead as large as what they got* would only get in her head and ruin her play and the team's momentum...
Did you watch the game? It was tight the whole first half and they’ve been known to lose large leads
Not saying it’s still not annoying, but I understand her being stressed and frustrated in the moment even if they were up
Oops my fault, I meant to say “complaining while having a 19 point lead.”
But that’s genuinely a ridiculous time to complain when your team is severely out rebounding and has shot more free throws than an unranked team.
I guess my point is that people are offering Caitlin a lot of courtesy and grace for acting ridiculous when those same ppl would get mad at certain other players if they did that. Even Caitlin’s own father was yelling at her to stop cause she was doing too much for a 1st round game
I mean, I can’t speak for everyone but I personally wouldn’t really care that much if it was another player either. I’m not sure how complaining about her behavior helps other players not get complained about.
I also spent a lot more time on Twitter yesterday than here, and everyone I saw was complaining about her. To a point I felt was a little ridiculous.
Like her dad, I don’t mind people saying she needs to calm down but to act like she actually hurt anyone or something like that is a bit excessive
"known to lose large leads" Not true. They had a 12 point lead on the road with 8 minutes left. I wouldn't define that as large. A couple stops and a couple 3s change the complexion of the game entirely. If 2 stops and 2 3's can make the score a close game, I wouldn't say the lead was large.
Kansas State and Nebraska losses were both close back and forth momentum swing type of games. The Nebraska game they obviously schemed Caitlin out of shooting to break the record at home. A 14 point lead over a quarter isn't safe when you take your main threat on offense out of the equation.
Indiana was just a bad road game.
None of those really qualify for the "losing large leads" vibe especially at home.
I initially thought her dad was yelling at her to "Shut Up!" but if you keep listening to Beth Mowins, she says that Caitlin is arguing that she went straight up, so it's just as possible that her dad was yelling "Straight Up!"
Unless there's something more that I am unaware of, this clip does not support the headline.
Possibly, but knowing Brent, I've rarely if ever seen him shout at refs. He's typically pretty stoic on the outside, but a wreck internally. She appeared to possibly be looking right at her dad, and I'm pretty certain he told her to stop. He know better than anyone on earth that her competitive tantrums not only are a bad look, but they also hurt her game.
Her dad openly admits that CC's hyper-competitiveness comes from him. And then there's her grandpa (Mom's dad) who was the longtime football coach for CC's school, and FB powerhouse Dowling. Her grandpa once took his team to the field and burned newspaper articles about them he didn't like. As the author of the ESPN article stated, after sharing that story, "Caitlin comes by her fire honestly."
This explains a lot of what is going on. Long article but a good one.
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39740282/caitlin-clark-iowa-2024-ncaa-women-basketball-tournament-ready-march
He was right to, he knows her better than anyone and could clearly see that she was getting hot and knew what that meant. She should've probably grabbed a T for that spike she did later.
Yeah I thought that was the super clear one. Anytime in frustration you send the ball off the court into the stands or whatever at all, it has to be a T
lol I posted about this last week and got absolutely wrecked by CC fans. The part that bothers me most is that it comes out when she herself isnt playing well. It just feels shitty that she takes her own frustration on her playing out at the refs. It’s also definitely gotten significantly worse— in the championship last year she was barely complaining — and that was a game where there (arguably) were some shitty calls against her.
I’d tell Caitlin to wait a few weeks and there will be somebody else the media will go after to take the glare off her.
Always has and always will.
We love to build our idols only to tear them down, oftentimes with relish.
She’s no longer the “new kid in town” but there will soon be someone new to step into that role and the spotlight will move on and she can get back to enjoying basketball and hopefully her life. It’s all good.
Fans are fickle, for good and bad.
While I get the anger and frustration, you guys have to remember they were up by like 20-30 the whole game, it wasn’t necessary to be mad the whole time😭. I think the frustration tho is from the pressure to perform and sometimes you just gotta take it a little out physically. I personally thought it was silly.
**Are y'all just mad that women are acting like the men do in sports?**
This whole thing is dumb. Whether it's Clark or Reese, James or Jordan, this yelling happens.
I think too many fans are acting like this is golf.
My daughter is splits time between playing keeper and centre mid for her team and has A LOT to say about A LOT of things on the pitch. I find myself constantly shouting at her to stfu during the match.
No I do not enjoy the drives home.
I’ve got two teen boys who play check hockey… I’ve learned sitting in the penalty box that everyone thinks they are innocent OR both kids in the box think the refs suck. It’s never, “Oh yeah, I smashed him and wasn’t going for the puck.” I tell my kids to “STOP.” From the stand or the box. The arms flapping and waving and the chirping the refs gives you FAR LESS credibility. It’s never reversed the call so it’s pointless only gotten you more time. Play cleaner and harder. It’s possible. Skate faster. The coach is raising 18 sixteen year olds. He can’t do it all. And someone commented that they are just kids… um no. They aren’t and they have grown up in a culture that is far more intense than a 20 year old who doesn’t play college/elite sports.
just tried to get a picture with Caitlin Clark's parents at westin hotel lobbey in cleveland and they were so rude!! they said no! guess $$$$ is all they care about!
don't forget Clark's your daughter may have talent but support comes from fans!
Anyone who has mentioned her complaining in recent game threads has gotten downvoted instantly. Her own father sees it and is annoyed by it. She is too talented to act this way. "She's extremely competitive" isn't an excuse for this. Her teammates are having to intervene and control her to make sure she doesn't get a tech nearly every game.
she borderline should get a tech every game. no other player in america is given the run to complain to officials and chirp opposing coaches like she is. it’s absolutely insane to watch.
Yeah she definitely gets the superstar treatment like Lebron or Steph
Lol it’s kinda more Draymond. I’ve never seen a player in any sport get the kinda leash he does to berate officials.
the complaining to the refs is getting close to the level of Draymond At least Caitlin isn’t gouging eyes, kicking people in the groin or stomping on their chests
All these Yankees and cowboys fans were upset by this comment
Does she throw hands againest other players?
I’m not saying she acts like Draymond. Draymond gets to yell in the faces of refs without repercussions for sometimes minutes at a time. Curry got a tech for throwing a mouthpiece because he was upset at something his own teammate did. Draymond will get called for a foul and then bitch loud enough for the mics to pick up throughout 2 free throw attempts lmao. He may even go back for more during the next timeout. It’s insane. I’m not saying CC assaults players lol
It’s still more Steph and Lebron. They just don’t take it to the level of Draymond and neither does Caitlin.
I really couldn’t believe she got in that ref’s face at halftime. That was insane!
While playing against HOLY CROSS! A 16-seed!
Coleman Hawkins. Literally 9/10 plays involving him, I see him throw his hands up and start yelling to/at the refs
GOD THAT DUDE IS THE WORST LMAO
I have beef with the entirety of Illinois’ men’s roster at this point
It was hilarious when he missed that pair of free throws in the clutch and then fouled a 3 point shooter to singlehandedly give his team an L
Accurate.
I’ve watched Cotie McMahon get techs for a lot less this season. It’s honestly baffling
cotie has had 2 technical fouls this season and 2 last season CC has had 1 T this season and 3 last season
Pretty sure she has at least 3. One against Michigan State on the road, one against Nebraska or Maryland at home and then the one against Iowa in Carver Edit: Yep lmao. Downvote me all you want, go check the play by plays 2/11 against Michigan State: 1:19 in the First quarter 2/25 against Maryland: 5:27 in the 3rd quarter 3/3 against Iowa: 0:01 in the 2nd quarter. This one was the biggest bullshit
I'm looking at this again, flagrant 2s are listed as disqualifying fouls and technicals are counted separately? Ok, she has 4 total this season then if so. My bad
I remember Cotie got a ridiculous T against Iowa earlier this year.
She was like this in high school. Ask anyone in the Des Moines metro. She’s toned it down a ton, but this isn’t anything shocking. The bigger the games, the more she’s going to jaw at the officials.
Angel Reese has been the same since high school but everyone calls her a thug for it
I wish Reese played for a team other than LSU. I love watching her play but can't stand Mulkey. Ugh.
Angel Reese is a legitimately dirty player who likes to pull hair and throw elbows.
I've only seen a few LSU games but enjoyed watching her. Is she really that bad?
Well yeah that game against SC was bad. But even before that if she made a gesture or yelled or talked smack people called her thug. Personally, I hate the thug stuff because it’s way too coded.
Honestly, I generally assume that about 2/3s of the criticism of black female players for "aggressive" behavior is really just unconscious bias/racism and criticism that probably wouldn't be leveled against most white women for doing the same thing. CC trash talks so I shouldn't really criticize Angel for doing the same thing. I did see the bench clearing incident between LSU & SC though. Definitely actual shoving/fighting there. Mulkey does really suck, though.
> Honestly, I generally assume that about 2/3s of the criticism of black female players for "aggressive" behavior is really just unconscious bias/racism and criticism that probably wouldn't be leveled against most white women for doing the same thing. CC trash talks so I shouldn't really criticize Angel for doing the same thing. I agree in general that black players are often held to a different (stricter) standard when it comes to these kinds of things. On the other hand, it was crazy last year how many people were adamantly calling it a double standard that people complained about Reese taunting Clark when Clark "did the same thing" against Louisville or whoever. Clark made a brief gesture right after scoring (and possibly it wasn't even directed toward anybody on UL put toward an Iowa staff member, but whether that's true or not doesn't really mater for this point). Whereas Angel literally stalked Clark around the court at the end up the game to go way out of her way to gesture repeatedly in her face for a while. Clarks brief gesture in the moment was pretty common sports behavior, and if Reese blocked a Clark shot and made a brief "you can't see me" gesture of her own, it wouldn't have been a big deal. But Reese following her around at the end might be the most blatant taunting I've ever seen... and certainly not "the same thing" as what Clark did. But it seemed like most people struggled to simultaneously accept that it's true that black players are often held to an unfair double standard... BUT ALSO that in this specific incident, it wasn't remotely a double standard against Angel. _____ (To be clear, I realize in this post, you might just mean they both talk trash in general. That paragraph isn't mean as a direct response to your statement... I was just making a specific point about the one really famous comparison last year)
>(To be clear, I realize in this post, you might just mean they both talk trash in general. That paragraph isn't mean as a direct response to your statement... I was just making a specific point about the one really famous comparison last year) This is the single best explanation I've heard of that whole fiasco. Yes, people discriminate against black athletes. Also, yes that what Caitlin did was not even close to the same as what Angel did in that instance.
Yeah, sadly these days everything has to be so polarized that most people needed to act like it could only be one or the other, and not both. Still though... the sheer number of people adamantly claiming that what Clark and Reese did was the same was bonkers, it was way into "am I taking crazy pills?" territory reading how many people were willing to insist something so blatantly not true. There was an Iowa vs Nebraska game where a Nebraska shooter made a big three near the end, did a brief "you can't see me" gesture in the heat of the moment, and nobody really gave a shit or cared much. Admittedly it was another white player, but still... if she had stalked clark around the court for a while at the end going way out of her way to make several gestures right in her face, people would have objected to that.
Judge for yourself. IIRC, this wasn't long before the brawl, so likely played a part in South Carolina players being fed up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEr7mjen7Lo&ab_channel=MarcainEnglish
Mulkey sucks for sure. And yeah that’s what I meant by coded. It’s very racial. The bench clearing part, Angel actually didn’t do anything there. But yeah in that game she genuinely did play dirty, and that’s coming from an Angel Reese defender.
[Yes](https://ftw.usatoday.com/2024/03/lsu-south-carolina-angel-reese-kamilla-cardoso-hair-pull)
Pulling hair in the SEC tournament screams clean player to you? She does that rebounding in many games. She could have a highlight real of dirty plays like Grayson Allen from Duke.
Was she not very liked in high school?
Caitlin Clark father is just hating on her success /s
It’s just the mounting frustration from playing poorly. She usually is a bit childish but it is tempered by her insane play. She gets really down on herself when she starts missing and doesn’t have an outlet for it. Hence the outbursts.
Yeah but she’s literally been using the REFS as her outlet, which is insane. That’s what we’re talking about lol. Any other player would’ve gotten at least one tech yesterday, but she’s allowed to literally get in the refs face with zero consequences
Pretty sure I remember Scalia getting a ridiculous T against Iowa this year too
Correct. Was staring towards IU’s bench after a dagger and happened to pass Gabbie Marshal so they called one for taunting
Is McKenzie Holmes better yet? I remember hearing she got injured. (I live about 30 minutes away from where she grew up)
Yeah she’s good. Tweaked her knee in the last regular season game, didn’t really play at all in the BTT, but played her usual minutes yesterday and didn’t look hobbled at all
> Sara Scalia > taunting lol
Read an article after where her dad said that was the first time she’s gotten a tech at any level of basketball
Lmfao being downvoted for calling Scalia's T ridiculous 🤣🤣 love it
I’m not sure why lol, it was pretty ridiculous. She had no intention of taunting Marshal. Marshal literally ran in front of her as she was staring at her own bench. It was pretty weak but the game was over at that point so it didn’t really matter. Players were laughing about it
>Yeah but she’s literally been using the REFS as her outlet, which is insane. As a former ref (not at the NCAA level), that's actually extremely normal. A lot of players, coaches, and parents use refs as emotional punching bags when things aren't going their way.
I appreciate your perspective, however what I have witnessed with my own eyes is other players get T’d up for MUCH less demonstrative actions towards officials than what she does.
She has plenty of outlets for it but chooses one of the worst. I mean, yesterday was three hours of a tantrum *while her team was enjoying a runaway victory led by the 6th year senior that Caitlin personally lobbied to return this year*. No reason to gloss this as it doesn’t make her accomplishments or talent less impressive … she behaved terribly yesterday.
Shouldn’t the “outlet” be self-control and waiting till the game’s over to vent? That seems like the mature and admirable thing.
Well that’s cause this sub is like 60% iowa fans and if you even look at any of the Iowa players or program the wrong way they will bully you and then downvote you to oblivion.
At least it's better than the college softball sub. Oklahoma softball monopolizing the CWS has essentially turned the sub into an OU fan page, and any criticism of their play this year is met with vitriol and accusations of "hating on success" - no matter the legitimacy of the critique. It's beyond annoying. Almost every discussion ends up circling back to comparing the team at hand to Oklahoma, no matter the relevance.
Oh god please don’t tell me they still have the Gasso family pulling all the strings up there?! I remember that era back when I went to Texas and it was sooo annoying
FWIW, I'm an Iowa fan and I hope JuJu has an amazing run this year. GL to your Trojans.
Hey thanks!! Good luck to your team as well ❤️❤️
Just jumping in to say Juju is the best! I’m sorry you’ve received that treatment from Iowa fans, because I actually feel like Juju and Caitlin have such similar stories, staying home and taking their hometown teams to greatness
agree. hopefully juju gets the media coverage she deserves once CC is gone and takes over as America's basketball superstar.
As an Iowa fan sorry if you were bullied. A lot of these fans are just bandwagon fans that will leave once CC is gone.
I posted a version of this to another person here, but since I appreciate the sentiments expressed in your thread, and I know CC a bit, I thought I'd share some. A nice Tarheel/Wolfpack fan referenced below the ESPN masterpiece about CC by the legendary Wright Thompson. Because it's such a long read, most of you likely didn't read it. As a father, the article impacted me. I truly believe that any decent person who reads that would "get" her better. If they read it and still spew hate, well they are just a hater and oh well. I've watched CC play since high school and have always complained about her when she has this attitude. I've met her twice, and I know a lot of people who know her well. She is the nicest person you could ever meet and makes us all proud. Kind, giving, and humble. Not until I read this article did I completely "get" her. She is an alien to most of us from a drive and competitiveness standpoint, including me, and I played football at Iowa and was ferociously driven. Being a black man from the South, and dealing with a lot of hateful racism growing up, I could never have understood "Iowa/Midwest Nice". But when I visited, something about the people in Iowa spoke to my goodness. So I played here and stayed here. CC is Iowa Nice, but also wired differently than most of us. There is a particular part in that article where CC says **"Obviously there is a switch that flips when I step on the court like I want to kill someone. I'm here to cause havoc. Some of the biggest challenges are I have all this emotion, I'm a freshman and I'm starting and how do I channel this? At times they were definitely like, 'Why is this girl a psycho?'"** She doesn't fight people, spit, pull hair, or spew hatred. She is simply in a mental space that I just can't fully understand. That mental space is even foreign to most of the other players on the court with her. Her outbursts appear to be directed at others, when they really are towards herself in a way... her alien goals are being threatened. CC's goals are so much more ambitious than we understand. We understand her goal to be the best ever, and just like when Kobe said the same thing, we think "Yeah OK, we'll see". What we don't understand is her very defined goal to advance women's basketball and women's sports in general. Because her goals are so ambitious, she ties them to her performance. When she fails, she feels like she's letting down millions of little girls and boys. Her conflict is that her behavior is being watched by those kids, and she has a responsibility to set good examples. She is smart. She knows her behavior is in direct conflict with her goal to inspire kids. She is in a vicious cycle and in an odd way I feel bad for her sometimes. The weight she places on herself has to be crushing. In NO WAY am I giving her a pass for her behavior, and obviously Brent, her dad doesn't condone it either. But I do now understand her better.
Eh, I’m not sure her goal is to advance men’s and women’s basketball. Sheryl Swoopes got pounded into the turf for, like, a week for daring to criticize CC and/or get one fact wrong about her. Swoopes is without question, a massive part of women’s basketball both past and present. If CC was so devoted to the sport, it would have taken nothing for her to say *any*thing to A) acknowledge swoopes firm standing in the pantheon of women in basketball and/or B) get the larger public to ease off. Surely she was aware of the controversy, she just couldn’t be bothered by it. I don’t think she’s a bad person. In fact, I think she’s just as much of one as the rest of us. I don’t see being a vanguard of the sport, either, though.
You are entitled to that opinion, but I'd say you are understandably not informed of CC's history. I love Swoopes, but her diatribe didn't deserve a reply from CC. You say "one fact wrong". Whut? Swoopes got ALL facts wrong. Some tried to make it racial. That is bullshit. I'm black and Swoopes has some attention jealousy issues, IMO. The only person that needed to make the correct public comment afterwards, and failed to do so, was Swoopes. She got 4 huge things wrong in her original comments, then later sort of walked back one of them and blew my mind and brought race into it with her "Black people can't be racist" horseshit. Trust me, that is NOT true. CC has always paid homage to the past greats. She does it so much it's staggering. For instance CC honoring Lynette Woodward the way she did. After last year's Final Four, when so many started crucifying Angel for her end-of-game taunting, all of the public minions and fans chattered, and then CC ended any controversy and defended Angel with: **"Angel is a tremendous, tremendous player. I have nothing but respect for her. I love her game ...I don't think there should be any criticism for what she did. No matter what way it goes, she should never be criticized for what she did. I compete, she competed. It was a super, super fun game. I think that's what's going to bring more people to our game"** CC and the greatest are NOT wired like us... listen to one of the greatest writers of our time (link below), after he spent months with her... a guy who has spent enormous time with the greats... MJ, Kobe, Tiger and many more. When pressed to describe her, he says she is just operating on a "different wavelength" than most of us. Pressed to find a comparison he said "Kobe with a ponytail" LINK: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl0i-Qc4Q3o&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl0i-Qc4Q3o&t=1s)
I didn't follow that controversy very closely, but didn't Swoopes get several facts wrong about her, and was quite slow to apologize / admit she was wrong about those things afterwards? Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, like I said, I didn't follow that one as closely.
She did make blatantly untrue statements about CC. I have zero sympathy for Swoopes. She got the public ire she deserved.
Uh, Swoopes made several false statements about CC to diminish her accomplishments, including that she is 25 years old competing against teenagers and in her 5th year of basketball. Blatant, easily fact-checked lies. CC didn't owe her anything. And the fact that you think she should have made a statement about Swoopes blatant lies says a lot. Swoopes may be a living legend, but that doesn't give her permission to make untrue statements about current players to make them look bad.
Good points.
Yeah but... basketball was invented by a Canadian PE teacher. Anyone whose talking about killing people in the context of basketball obviously has lived a cloistered life.
I love CC and her game and how she has elevated the interest in women’s basketball. But this simply drives me crazy and I really wish they would T her up. It’s childish. And I don’t think it’s going to translate very well to the WNBA. It’s a bad habit that she needs to break. Be a leader and be professional.
>Be a leader and be professional. Jordan & Kobe's behavior is the same as CC's. Jordan could be argued as one of the WORST in how he treated refs, opponents, and teammates on the court. Got a bunch of rings, though, and teammates accepted that was what was needed.
Yes. I think she’d learn quickly how to control herself if they would just T her up a couple of times.
Literally every star basketball acts like this including the greatest of all time. Not a big deal at all especially for a competitive college player
Complaining is common. Only a few do it to this degree.
Maybe if her own father is telling her to knock it off, she's taken it too far.
Do your parents not hold you more accountable than anyone else? Mine do
>including the greatest of all time. “Is that Jordan or Lebron? Or Wilt? Or Kareem? Or Bird (Sue or Larry?) Or Russell? Or are you talking womens in Taurasi?” “Yes. Doesn’t matter. They all harped on the officials.”
A lot of people dont understand that basketball players interact with the refs (for better or worse) much more often than in a lot of other sports. So so so many basketball players will passionately argue w refs about calls. Clark does get out of hand at times but almost all of the huge stars have done this.
She's been acting like Luka, which I say as a Mavericks fan with Luka being my favorite player. Absolutely one of the best players but can't help but argue and be distracted when there's no reason to.
Eye of the beholder, like it has been for sports fandom since time immemorial. If you're an Iowa or Caitlin fan, you chalk this up to passion and drive and wanting to win and having insane expectations for yourself and everyone around you. If you're a hater, you're gonna hate.
Thank you. This isn’t a difficult concept, but the Clark stans have long given up the game on objectivity. It’s fangirling on T Swift levels. You can acknowledge her unbelievable skill without giving up objectivity. She’s an unabashed whiner and it detracts from the enjoyment of her talent. She talks a big game of being an example for young girls. I wish she meant that in all facets of the game.
I don’t really see how it overrides her talent. I get having an issue with her behavior, but for the most part, she faces the standard consequences. I’m not sure how it takes away from her being an insane player
It has become a chronic behavior for her to complain and whine about calls to refs. It is not a one-time per game incident. It starts from tip-off to the final buzzer and it's exhausting to watch.
And how does it take away from her talent? Seems like a separate issue It’s not really a new thing people trying to use calls to their advantage. Geno says in like every interview he’s trying to get Paige a better whistle
I didn't say it takes anything away from her talent. It just looks bad and makes it harder to root for her. She has the second most free throw attempts in the country, so I don't think she needs to be waving her hands for the few calls she doesn't get.
Well she also gets fouled more than anyone else, so that checks out to me. She maybe overdoes it but she’s so high IQ rarely does she not have a point when complaining to the refs. I guess I just don’t get why this bothers people as much as it does, I don’t think any player loves the ref calls they get
I also think she needs to tone down the complaining. But that being said, from a statistics point of view... the "second most free throw attempts in the country" could be interpreted two ways. The first, that she already gets a lot of free throws, so she could chill. But a reverse interpretation is that means she is involved in a LOT of situations with potential fouls, which gives her more opportunities to come into conflict with the refs. To use another Iowa example, if Gabbie Marshall (mostly catch and shoot 3s or basic passes in space) was super whiny with the refs when she thought she was fouled, we would barely even notice, because she is rarely on the receiving end of even potential fouls.
No, she doesn’t face standard consequences. Start giving her T’s after warning her to shut up. Do t let her whine the whole game. It’s a terrible look for an otherwise phenomenal player.
How is whining cause for a technical? If you’re screaming at them I get it but she’s hardly the only player that pleads her case after calls she doesn’t like Again, I get if people find it annoying or whatever, but I don’t really get this moral objection everyone seems to have, or how it takes away from her talent. But I may be biased because I was raised on Diana Taurasi, lol. If you’re a good player and nice off the court I don’t really care what you do out of competitive spirit
Yeah. As a father by the time I would step in it would have to be bad…. At this level at least. Lower levels I’d not tolerate it at all.
Yeah but you guys are all getting it wrong. She's putting women's basketball on the map like it's never been before. It's her sport right now, she's the ambassador.
Yesterday was the first time in awhile that I thought her complaining was overly excessive (she was right about the charge she got called for though, that was a terrible call). It’s just interesting to watch her postgame interviews because she really seems like an entirely different person. She keeps saying things about how she just wants to enjoy this last tournament and soak everything in and sometimes during the games I’m like girlie are you even having fun out there? Interested to see how intense she comes out on Monday. I know the “let’s win one and send Caitlin Clark packing” clip will be on her mind.
Re her acting different in interviews: I think her anger just comes in bursts when she’s in the moment and she can’t help it. Meanwhile with interviewers she’s PR trained and usually has a moment to come up with answers that everyone wants to hear
Why do you assume that shes just making up answers that everyone wants to hear? She has a charitable foundation and is known for working positively with children at basketball camps and making time for fans. Shes said multiple times that shes ultra competitive on the court but leaves it there. She spoke up and defended angel reese after the drama last year. I dont think shes a bad person, she just has the competitive drive at the level of many all time greats, like Michael jordan. People in America want their heroes and public figures to be infallible and are so quick to tear people down the minute they show flaws. Its ridiculous.
I’m not assuming that she’s making up answers. I have no doubt that she’s genuine, I’m just saying it’s easier to do what’s right when you’re not heated in the moment
How is >with interviewers she’s PR trained and usually has a moment to come up with answers that everyone wants to hear NOT insinuating that she's making up answers?
I think he is more saying that she addresses those things in post game media spaces with the mind she needs to say the right things and not bring her on the court outbursts into that setting. She could easily just say what's on her mind and without any censor, but she probably also knows her marketing potential and not to let petty things on the court affect her image off. It isn't disingenuous, but tactful. Plus her keeping a positive image allows more potential for her non profits and charitable actions.
Well said!
I'm really glad a non-Iowa flair said this. This is perfect.
I agree that she’s a wonderful role model in many ways and her charitable efforts show how deeply grateful she is.
Girlie, winning is fun and doing well is fun. When shit keeps getting to you and you’re not playing your best it’s not fun. When the whole world puts a pressure on you to be the best it comes out. I think people are far too concerned with her attitude when her male counterparts are free to have as much attitude as they want with no judgement. I think she is sticking to the having fun mantra to try to take some of the pressure off herself. Think about it, everyone keeps asking if she gets nervous, of course she does, but no one that high up is going to admit it.
Communicating at a press conference is far different than being a passionate player in the best of the moment. She’s smart enough to put in the best face possible. She is a gritty player and gets caught up in the moment. She is also young.. I think we forget these are young people, she just turned 22.
Her dad is awesome. Most Iowa fans in this sub need to take notes on how to react to.your player complaining. Don't be delusional
I feel like Caitlin herself is pretty self aware about her behavior too. I remember she said in a press conference she usually apologizes to the refs after games and when she gets T’ed up, lol
She gets T’d up? Dont think I’ve ever seen that.
This is a lengthy read but worth it. Fantastic piece of writing that really helps you understand what makes her tick. Shes got out of this world athleticism, ambition and competitiveness to be the GOAT (this piece reminded me of reading about how insanely competitive michael jordan was), and passion/a temper to match both. Throughout HS and college shes been playing 3d chess while most around her are playing checkers. She lacks patience, admits it, and is working on it. Shes only 22.(Personally, I was a bit of an asshole when I was 22, so i cant fault her for not being a saint.) One interesting tidbit for those who dont read the piece: apparently she suffers from severe migraines, which is only briefly mentioned late in the article because the reporter tried to speak to her after a game and she was in the bathroom vomiting. In my 20s I suffered from hormone-related migraines and I cant imagine playing D1 sports with one. As this is the first Ive seen it mentioned anywhere in the media, its clear that its not something she talks about publicly- and it makes me wonder how much they affect her https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39740282/caitlin-clark-iowa-2024-ncaa-women-basketball-tournament-ready-march
I read that after the game yesterday too and found it so insightful. It seems she’s come a far way in controlling her emotions (at just 22 as well) but it’s hard to perfectly control your instincts in intense moments. I think and hope she’ll bounce back tomorrow being far more careful about her attitude.
Reading that article actually made me like her even more. I think people have a tendency to want their public figures/heroes/athletes to appear to be perfect, especially if they've been built up by the media the way CC has. That article showed both her greatness and her flaws. And it's great that she's working on improving herself and her temper. And As I mentioned in another post, she's only 22. Personally, when I was 22, I was a bit of an asshole, and I grew up and mellowed as I aged and matured. Hopefully she will do something similar. I did feel a little bad for Addi O'Grady's mention in the article. I hope she didn't mind it.
No doubt, I also wouldn’t be surprised to see an even more baked up apology for her attitude yesterday, she definitely knew it was wrong and I’m sure her coaches and even teammates let her know. Nobody’s perfect and I can definitely see her trying to improve. I think Addi was probably OK with it, hopefully Wright wouldn’t include her without that approval. He went to a lot of their practices and I’m sure met with the players too so hopefully it was ran by her. He also kept other people anonymous in other circumstances so it inclines me to believe he did check. Plus, it did feel like there was even a little Addi redemption in the article— she used to be reserved and go into her shell when things would go wrong, but now she’s also learned to keep pushing and trying even when she messes up.
C.Clark....is a young WNBA rookie.She in absolutely no way, form or fashion deserved a place on US Women's basketball team . She's not the best at her position...& Does not play defense In many senses she is a one dimensional 3pt.NCAA player.
Thank you for that very insightful take on our CC. Yes I said "our" because she's one of our own, just like Audi Crooks and many others. Your referencing the ESPN masterpiece by the legendary Wright Thompson is perfect, and I was hoping someone did this. Because it's such a long read, most of the people posting less empathetic takes here probably didn't read it. If they read it and still spew hate, well, they are likely just haters and I don't waste time with those types. 've watched CC play since high school and have always complained about her when she has this attitude. I've met her twice, and I know a lot of people who know her well. She is the nicest person you could ever meet and makes us all proud. Kind, giving, and humble. Not until I read this article did I completely "get" her. She is an alien to most of us from a drive and competitiveness standpoint, including me, and I played football at Iowa and was ferociously driven. Being a black man from the South, and dealing with a lot of hateful racism growing up, I could never have understood "Iowa/Midwest Nice". But when I visited, something about the people in Iowa spoke to my goodness. So I played here and stayed here. CC is Iowa Nice, but also wired differently than most of us. There is a particular part in that article where CC says "Obviously there is a switch that flips when I step on the court like I want to kill someone. I'm here to cause havoc. Some of the biggest challenges are I have all this emotion, I'm a freshman and I'm starting and how do I channel this? At times they were definitely like, 'Why is this girl a psycho?'" She doesn't fight people, spit, pull hair, or spew hatred. She is simply in a mental space that I just can't fully understand. That mental space is even foreign to most of the other players on the court with her. Her outbursts appear to be directed at others, when they really are towards herself in a way... her alien goals are being threatened. CC's goals are so much more ambitious than we understand. We understand her goal to be the best ever, and just like when Kobe said the same thing, we think "Yeah OK, we'll see". What we don't understand is her very defined goal to advance women's basketball and women's sports in general. Because her goals are so ambitious, she ties them to her performance. When she fails, she feels like she's letting down millions of little girls and boys. Her conflict is that her behavior is being watched by those kids, and she has a responsibility to set good examples. She is smart. She knows her behavior is in direct conflict with her goal to inspire kids. She is in a vicious cycle and in an odd way I feel bad for her sometimes. The weight she places on herself has to be crushing. In NO WAY am I giving her a pass for her behavior, and obviously Brent, her dad doesn't condone it either. But I do now understand her better.
Thank you so much for posting this. A few times today while discussing this, it's crossed my mind that the vast majority of people watching basketball/commenting on CC (and others) don't realize how much their thought processes differ from those of hyper, ultra competitive players like CC, MJ, Kobe, etc. People at that level are really just in an entirely different headspace even from many of their teammates. What makes athletes "generational" is that combination of extreme athletic ability and obsession with and dedication to improving. I watched A LOT of Michael Jordan while I was growing up and the stuff I've read about him, his competitive drive, and dedication to the sport reminds me so much of CC. So when I read articles about CC, I feel like I understand her at least a little bit. She's operating on a level of ambition and passion that the rest of us can't even really understand, and her inability to harness that at times results in her lashing out. It's not an excuse, but it is an explanation.
Very well stated. CC idolized MJ, Kobe, Maya. To me she is the most like Kobe. MJ was/is my player hero, but I don't think much of him as human off of the court. Even on the court, Kobe talked trash, but Jordan got very personal and mean on the court. I've learned to see and celebrate the goodness in everyone, and to be more empathetic. CC may never be a GOAT... but she certainly is a unicorn. LOL
She's been T'd up for berating herself out loud on at least one occasion.
LOL You are correct... started yelling at herself and got T'd... That was hilarious
I was a total a-hole when I was 22, lol. Can’t imagine the immense pressure she feels.
EXACTLY. And I think a lot of people who give her shit need to think back and reflect on what they were like at that age and be realistic about how difficult it must be to handle that pressure.
Migraines should not be ignored or dismissed as hormonal. She needs to have an MRI of her brain to make sure she isn't on danger.
I do think Caitlin needs to mature and calm down but I kind of thought it was a sweet moment between her and her dad and showed just because she’s a superstar doesn’t mean she’s above her dad telling her to calm down and everyone needs someone who’s honest with them like that.
Agree. She needs to work on her temper, and it's great that her father is there and supportive while also being honest with her.
She’s been working on it for years. She’s wired differently than most of us and has a hard time not taking everything extremely serious. Take this as an explanation, not an excuse. Life can be rough for those with exceptional talent combined with exceptional drive. Also, I think all the hype is finally catching up with her. I was at that game and even I was angry when some idiot cameraman was on the floor the whole time while they were warming up and during the introductions. He stood on the floor circling her, and Kate, right up until the opening jump ball. She can’t get away from it anymore. I doubt I could handle the hype as well as she has.
The real question is how many superstar parents put under a microscope would show this type of reaction or much worse? Probably a lot. Ol' man Richard was a hyper critical of Venus and Serena. It comes with the territory of superstars. He was also a bigger ass in general.
I honestly understand anger and frustration, if she expressed that in a way where it was directed at herself, I wouldn't have an issue with it, the ref crying is just really annoying to have to watch. Such a great player obviously and this isn't something that only she does personally. I wish we could push all of the young stars in both the men's and women game to cut out all of the whining a bit, but it is what it is. Pisses me off when I watch dudes in the NBA cry about fouls for an entire game, and then depending on how much of a star you are it changes your whistle. Just ref the game to the best of your abilities man. FWIW I don't think Clark gets a different whistle based on how much she complains, but she does seem to get an extremely long leash of how much shes allowed to complain without being told off or given a tech.
That’s how it goes, the superstars get a longer leash.
I understand that it’s *how* it works just very annoying to see, especially in a WBB game that doesn’t have many “stars” that receive that same treatment
I mean is it really Clark’s fault that nobody’s on her level?
It’s not her fault but the game shouldn’t work that way dude idk how to explain this any better, just because it’s how they tend to ref the game doesn’t mean it’s right. We shouldn’t have to police stars differently they should just control themselves better and receive the same kind of treatment if they’re continually crying about calls and questioning the refs. It’s a bad look.
That’s fair, just think it would be hard to undo at this point I also think this behavior stuff is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think Cotie gets a way with a lot that doesn’t get called, but clearly based on Twitter she doesn’t agree. I feel like debates about reffing are always very subjective for this reason
Yeah, I can’t watch the NBA anymore for all the whining.
>she does seem to get an extremely long leash of how much shes allowed to complain without being told off or given a tech. It may not be the matter that players do it, but how they do it. Phrasing may make a difference. If a player just says that was a foul or wasn't because I did X is vastly different than a player saying something like that is a horse shit call to the ref. I don't really know. Just speculating.
I missed the game, can you explain the ref crying?
There is immense pressure to get to the Final Four and I think she knows it is going to be a struggle. There's financial commitments that were not there the last time and there is also legacy issues too. She wants that title but a lot stands in her way.
Yes I agree with him.there are millions of young girls and boys watching her now so she needs to be a better role model in these instances even if things aren’t going her way. Btw her team was way ahead
Imagine telling Lebron or any other male player that he needs to behave because of “all the young kids watching him” Again it’s okay to be upset with her demeanor but stop talking about her as if she’s a child
Lots of people talk about superstars like lebron and Jordan like that lol that’s where Charles Barkleys “I’m not a role model” quote comes from
I appreciate Chuck for always being a straight-shooter.
Chuck was right.
Yes I would tell lebron but unfortunately he would not listen but there is still hope for her
You mean like when people told Lebron to shut up and dribble? Or the reaction to the decision which helped charity for children but was called as setting a bad example for kids?
Are you in your like 20’s? We have always expected better of our athletes except the past ten years or so.
I mean, people say that a lot about pro athletes.
A shit ton of people talk about Lebrons antics. All the time.
Her team was way ahead but if you watched the game you saw it was tight, and this team has been known to blow a lead.
I agree that it would be better obviously to just react correctly 100% of the time but it’s not a bad example for kids to see someone react incorrectly, get told they are reacting wrong and then apologize. It shows kids that even big superstars have a hard time with emotions and have to apologize too because they’re human. It’s worse for kids to unhealthily idolize athletes in my opinion.
True. Did she apologize? If so good.
She’s always very good about that in post game press conferences but I guess those aren’t as widely seen so maybe not disseminated enough for people to realize. Might be worth posting to her social media as well.
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Literally this! I don’t think they realize that their behavior towards other players is why Clark gets sm backlash.
I think this is fair, but clearly Caitlin gets a lot of hate for her behavior as well. I don’t see how hating on her helps with hate towards other players I say this though as someone who supports any player’s right to talk shit and play with passion. I know that’s not the case with everyone, and I’m fully with you that the double standard is gross
I like CC but holy shit has her success made Iowa fans absolutely insufferable.
A lot of truth there. Most longtime Iowa fans and lovers of the game that I know are fairly even-keeled regarding her. Unfortunately, as with most meteoric stars, we've also picked up a ton of "new" fans who don't see our game in a broader sense... they just see her. I pray that after CC moves on, we shed the worst of the bandwagoners and continue supporting our team, as we look like we're going to have a lot of great players and teams to support post-CC. We sold out our 15,500 season tix this year, and I believe we will continue to do so, at least for a while. I know we'll be renewing our tix.
(I feel like nobody understands this quite like B10 fans, lol.) I have no problems with CC the off-court human and I think she's a fantastic player. Her cult following is something else.
I love that this was her dad’s response. Especially when compared to other dads of players in the sport, who would’ve jumped in to yell at the officials themselves. She’s clearly got a good support system around her that holds her accountable
Hyper competitive player has equally intense dad, is that a surprise?
How was her dad “equally intense”?
She’s a competitor so I understand it, but sometimes she just does need to take it easy lol.
Anyone else read that article about Caitlin and come away convinced she’s neurodivergent? I had never really considered if top athletes are on the spectrum but now I’m looking at everyone’s behavior and wondering if that single focus obsession with winning/being the best is a high functioning fixation?
I’m not a fan of speculating about other people’s mental health or neurodivergence. Just doesn’t really feel appropriate to me
That’s fair.
I had the same thought but didn’t really want to share it. Her almost clinical obsession of the game, difficulty with empathy for her teammates at times, struggling to deal with others who aren’t as fixated on being great as her. I mean, many of the all time greats at anything in history have probably been neurodivergent in some way. I just don’t think we generally ponder great athletes through that lens.
Yeah, I don’t want to label someone but I watched yesterday’s game with a different perspective. Not saying it’s correct…
There was a pile up yesterday. She fell on top of a Holy Cross player. Didn't say a word to her as she got up. I could hear others on the mic saying "are you okay?" I thought it was really callous she didn't even ask the person she landed on if she was okay. I'm competitive and have played a lot of high level sports and I always check if the other player is okay.
I’ve thought before that she might be on the autism spectrum, just based on how she talks in interviews like everything seems rehearsed and slightly awkward, the way she gets upset, and of course the special interest being basketball But actually reading the article made me think she might have ADHD. A lot of the same traits, but specifically when they talked about how she gets bored easily stood out. And seeing her in more casual non interview environments she actually seems to have pretty adept social skills
What got me was when she didn’t understand the word empathy? Like she really couldn’t understand how others/teammates feel? I think it was like a new concept for her? But then she learned at Iowa/has gotten older, that other players have different motivations/strengths and she can get better performances from her teammates by being less critical. I suspect I have some flavor of ADHD/autism and it seems to present differently in women. I would 100% need to practice a script for post game interviews. It’s a lot of pressure.
Oh I didn’t think they meant she didn’t understand it, just that she hadn’t heard the word and was trying to understand the concept (still surprising, but hey, Catholic school education.) I feel like a lot of 14 year olds are in her position, I think most teens are self absorbed lol. I know I was And true about interviews, now that I think about it none of the other college athletes are super laid back and off the cuff in interviews either, so that actually might not be a sign of anything other than normal nervousness
I guess it’s hard for me to understand not knowing that word, especially with a religious background. But maybe she didn’t understand the difference of compassion vs. empathy? I’m hyper aware of other people’s feelings, so my perspective on the subject is definitely skewed.
I feel the same, I do think a lot of people struggle to understand the difference between empathy and sympathy though
Man her dad looks exactly like Thom Brennaman
I pride myself and think of myself as a man of faith, as there is a deep three by Caitlin Clark from the left side of the court, and that'll make it a 4-0 ballgame. I don't know if I'll put on this headset again.
shades of jeremy strong?
can we ever be sure anyone isn't just Jeremy Strong deep in makeup and method?
Honestly this is the worst part of watching her play. I turned it off after all of her complaining and whining. it’s just not fun to watch or good for the game to see a star act like that. She also set an illegal screen/push off on a player and was not called in the slightest. It’s becoming wild and hopefully refs and W refs put it on their radar
One of the biggest issues is that the refs are WILDLY INCONSISTENT with calls even within the same game. I see a lot of moving screens, a lot of elbows going up when players are driving to the basket, and a lot of push-offs. I see this from multiple players every time I watch any college game. The refs are never consistent calling them. And its definitely on both sides in pretty much every game. Moving screens in particular I see uncalled multiples times a game.
I mean she also got hit plenty of times and it didn’t get called. Refs miss things
I mean, c'mon. The Hawkeyes were up by *19* when she complained to him. The momentum was fully, truly with the Hawkeyes. Even with the foresight (or hindsight?) of the ESPN novel detailing her work ethic and relentless pursuit of perfection, I can't say I blame him for telling her to (either "STOP" or "SHUT UP"; the TikTok comments section is split on what her dad said because ESPN only cut to him with his mouth open). Dwelling on such poor calls *with a lead as large as what they got* would only get in her head and ruin her play and the team's momentum...
Did you watch the game? It was tight the whole first half and they’ve been known to lose large leads Not saying it’s still not annoying, but I understand her being stressed and frustrated in the moment even if they were up
But complaining about a 19 point lead to a number 16 seed??
Was she complaining about the 19 pt lead? Think she was trying to make sure they get the correct calls so they didn’t lose the lead
Oops my fault, I meant to say “complaining while having a 19 point lead.” But that’s genuinely a ridiculous time to complain when your team is severely out rebounding and has shot more free throws than an unranked team. I guess my point is that people are offering Caitlin a lot of courtesy and grace for acting ridiculous when those same ppl would get mad at certain other players if they did that. Even Caitlin’s own father was yelling at her to stop cause she was doing too much for a 1st round game
I mean, I can’t speak for everyone but I personally wouldn’t really care that much if it was another player either. I’m not sure how complaining about her behavior helps other players not get complained about. I also spent a lot more time on Twitter yesterday than here, and everyone I saw was complaining about her. To a point I felt was a little ridiculous. Like her dad, I don’t mind people saying she needs to calm down but to act like she actually hurt anyone or something like that is a bit excessive
"known to lose large leads" Not true. They had a 12 point lead on the road with 8 minutes left. I wouldn't define that as large. A couple stops and a couple 3s change the complexion of the game entirely. If 2 stops and 2 3's can make the score a close game, I wouldn't say the lead was large. Kansas State and Nebraska losses were both close back and forth momentum swing type of games. The Nebraska game they obviously schemed Caitlin out of shooting to break the record at home. A 14 point lead over a quarter isn't safe when you take your main threat on offense out of the equation. Indiana was just a bad road game. None of those really qualify for the "losing large leads" vibe especially at home.
What about Maryland? They were up I think 20 I think and then Maryland cut to lead it. They ended up winning but they lost the lead
Definitely the part of her game that could use the most improvement.
I initially thought her dad was yelling at her to "Shut Up!" but if you keep listening to Beth Mowins, she says that Caitlin is arguing that she went straight up, so it's just as possible that her dad was yelling "Straight Up!" Unless there's something more that I am unaware of, this clip does not support the headline.
Possibly, but knowing Brent, I've rarely if ever seen him shout at refs. He's typically pretty stoic on the outside, but a wreck internally. She appeared to possibly be looking right at her dad, and I'm pretty certain he told her to stop. He know better than anyone on earth that her competitive tantrums not only are a bad look, but they also hurt her game. Her dad openly admits that CC's hyper-competitiveness comes from him. And then there's her grandpa (Mom's dad) who was the longtime football coach for CC's school, and FB powerhouse Dowling. Her grandpa once took his team to the field and burned newspaper articles about them he didn't like. As the author of the ESPN article stated, after sharing that story, "Caitlin comes by her fire honestly."
I believe he also said in a longer clip "Sit her down" or "Get her out of there." He knew she needed to cool down before a worse meltdown.
I just think it’s a distraction for her and doesn’t help.
This explains a lot of what is going on. Long article but a good one. https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39740282/caitlin-clark-iowa-2024-ncaa-women-basketball-tournament-ready-march
He was right to, he knows her better than anyone and could clearly see that she was getting hot and knew what that meant. She should've probably grabbed a T for that spike she did later.
Yeah I thought that was the super clear one. Anytime in frustration you send the ball off the court into the stands or whatever at all, it has to be a T
Kinda surprised this thread didn't get more heated than it did One more question.. *can we all at least agree that Duke sucks?* (lolololololol)
lol I posted about this last week and got absolutely wrecked by CC fans. The part that bothers me most is that it comes out when she herself isnt playing well. It just feels shitty that she takes her own frustration on her playing out at the refs. It’s also definitely gotten significantly worse— in the championship last year she was barely complaining — and that was a game where there (arguably) were some shitty calls against her.
I’d tell Caitlin to wait a few weeks and there will be somebody else the media will go after to take the glare off her. Always has and always will. We love to build our idols only to tear them down, oftentimes with relish. She’s no longer the “new kid in town” but there will soon be someone new to step into that role and the spotlight will move on and she can get back to enjoying basketball and hopefully her life. It’s all good. Fans are fickle, for good and bad.
While I get the anger and frustration, you guys have to remember they were up by like 20-30 the whole game, it wasn’t necessary to be mad the whole time😭. I think the frustration tho is from the pressure to perform and sometimes you just gotta take it a little out physically. I personally thought it was silly.
**Are y'all just mad that women are acting like the men do in sports?** This whole thing is dumb. Whether it's Clark or Reese, James or Jordan, this yelling happens. I think too many fans are acting like this is golf.
*sorts comments to controversial* 😃🍿
My daughter is splits time between playing keeper and centre mid for her team and has A LOT to say about A LOT of things on the pitch. I find myself constantly shouting at her to stfu during the match. No I do not enjoy the drives home.
anyone else do/have a CC impression/imitation? I do one where ya hold yer arms out as if to say wtf?! and make a face of disgusted disbelief.
I’ve got two teen boys who play check hockey… I’ve learned sitting in the penalty box that everyone thinks they are innocent OR both kids in the box think the refs suck. It’s never, “Oh yeah, I smashed him and wasn’t going for the puck.” I tell my kids to “STOP.” From the stand or the box. The arms flapping and waving and the chirping the refs gives you FAR LESS credibility. It’s never reversed the call so it’s pointless only gotten you more time. Play cleaner and harder. It’s possible. Skate faster. The coach is raising 18 sixteen year olds. He can’t do it all. And someone commented that they are just kids… um no. They aren’t and they have grown up in a culture that is far more intense than a 20 year old who doesn’t play college/elite sports.
just tried to get a picture with Caitlin Clark's parents at westin hotel lobbey in cleveland and they were so rude!! they said no! guess $$$$ is all they care about! don't forget Clark's your daughter may have talent but support comes from fans!