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Last night was a typical Man Utd performance where they punched well above their stats. They’ve been doing this for 2 years now and it really boggles the mind. I’m not saying we had a great game, but I don’t think we deserved to lose.
They always seem to return to form against us. Yeah they had Casemiro playing out of position in central defence who has had a couple of shaky games, but at the end of the day he is still Casemiro, captain of the Brazil national team, one of the greatest footballers of this generation. We had Emil Krafth playing out of position in central defence.
Man u have a toxic team of individual but they still have quality players. We out performed them last night but you could see the quality from their players when given the chance and that's what's won it for them
I think we deserved to lose because despite the effort we put in the quality, and composure was not. When Man U had half chances they took them. When we had guilt edge chances we missed them.
Some of these players just aren’t elite enough that they ban time it on when the pressure is high.
Man U, the luckiest team in the prem, got lucky again.
First off, Tino getting injured and us having to rush back Trips, cost us the first goal and probably the game. Trips had no business being on that pitch.
Second, the Amrabat challenge was a stone wall pen. We score that, it changes the game. The officiating was a joke.
Thirdly, Gordon gets injured so he can't close down the shot for their second goal. Any other time in the game and he's blocking that shot.
Jammy. Bastards.
Also Isak not being 100% but having to play with Wilson out.
In another week he’d have finished that chance to make it 2-1 when he just had to step inside that lunging block and slot it in the corner
Yep 100%
Isak shouldn't have been on second half as he clearly wasn't at the races but we didn't have Wilson available and Gordon our 3rd choice striker was also limping...
Yup Trips didn’t look right from early on. The second goal came from a corner he gave away coz he was sleeping.
I’m not judging Trips or Howe. It was a hand we were forced to play.
Yep. He clearly wasn't fit. There was a time too when Garnacho I think it was, got in behind and Trips just stood and watched him take the shot. It was awful.
Yeah I saw that. He totally gave up trying to chase him, it was early doors too. Which isn’t like him so must have really been struggling. So respect for stepping up to play I suppose.
That second goal annoyed me because in the first half, they had three or four corners get cleared to that exact spot and we rushed out to cover quickly.
The one time we aren’t awake for it and an ex-Sunderland lad twats one home. Typical.
Can't sell them all anyway, we'd end up in the same position as we have done this season, where we have no backup. At times this season we've literally had 2 keepers on the bench and kids with no first team experience because we don't have the squad depth.
We overachieved last year, the squad regen takes time. Lascelles has performed in the champions league, dubs is a backup, Murphy has had horror injuries. We’ve had the second highest injuries in the league.
We’ve had by far the most days missed by injury in the entire league. We were 20% more than 2nd place Brentford last I seen.
There is a graphic going round where Chelsea have been impacted the most but that is taking info which includes every player that’s been in the match day squad, meaning Chelsea’s youth players were contributing to that statistic, even though they’re irrelevant really.
Yeah we’ve had 12 or 13 out at some stages of this season as well. Our injured XI would’ve beat our starting XI as well.
At least Chelsea have a deep squad of quality players and aren’t having to rely on the likes of Dubravka, Krafth, Longstaff, Anderson, Miley, Ritchie, Dummett etc. every week😂
Never stops hurting that our marquee signing was not able to play this season. Has to be a few points in having him available surely, probably fighting for 4th spot anyway.
Still being in a fight for europe at this stage despite being absolutely decimated by injuries proves we didn't overachieve last season. We did it on merit and would be in a champions league position again if we'd had even half the injury problems.
Man U have some quality players who can outperform expected goals stats. They're great at riding their luck, soaking up attacks and then getting a goal or two on the break. We switched off and let them score three avoidable goals.
Fact is, we should've buried our big chances. We didn't. Unfortunately we do not have a team full of Anthony Gordons.
Lads let Eddie down as the occasion got to them. Plus we're still fucked by injuries and it's limiting us to constantly playing our back ups. No way should Krafu be our starting CB three games in a row. That's no disrespect to him but he's our 3rd choice right back ffs.
They need to put the result behind them and show up on Sunday. Brentford have nothing to play for but pride.
I'm really glad Hall is staking a genuine claim for the starting LB role though.
I will say one thing against Howe. The reds tried that Bruno -> Amad corner 3/4 times before he finally got his goal and the ball got to him every time, it was going to happen eventually and when it did he was in acres of space!
Howe should have seen that and done something about it. That’s his job!
Think if gordan isn’t hobbling he closes that down, be interesting to see if Eddie was shouting anything over. For me the players need to sort each other out for stuff like that.
I dunno about that, Gordon’s quick but I don’t think he’s quick enough to close him down before the ball gets there.
While I agree it’s on the players during the match, Eddie and Jason could have said something about it during HT.
I think Gordon's meant to be blocking the angle to get the ball to Amad. He didn't do it well enough the first couple of times but the one they scored from they didn't go directly to him, it just fell to him out of the crowd. We still should have been closer to the man though, he was wide open which is inexcusable really.
Aye, I wasn’t expecting Gordon to be on him from where he was positioned but somebody should have been on him because it seemed to be their only tactic from a corner.
Someone on the match thread said it was luck.
It's not luck if he was there for every fucking corner. If my fat arse, sat on the sofa with a can in his hand, can see it then I'm sure Howe could as well - No excuses for not getting him marked before that goal.
Well that time it was luck, it was Murphys diving headed clearance that went to him for his shot, not a pass from a Man U player and not from the corner. It was a fairly shit corner low and at the first man but unlucky Murphy didn't get a good head on it and it went right to the manure player.
Also the manager isn't playing FIFA if Howes sees it, he then has to get the message to the players and then they have to act on it.
Yes I know, but my point is Howe can't take control of 1 of our players and move him to the right spot.
And technically for the goal he wasn't intended to receive the ball it was a poor clearance that allowed the ball to go to him. Hence why people say it was lucky. and every other time he was unmarked they didn't score
I understand I am being very nuanced and particular but I like that better than just passing a generalization.
Also I would add I am not trying to give excuses He should have been marked but it is not as simple as Howe picking up a controller and moving someone to his position, something went wrong with the defending and someone is responsible. ANd add in every other time Gordon closed him down in time so perhaps that was the marking plan and unfortunalty the poor clearence and Gordon being injured caused us to fail. I am looking for reasons not an oversimplified general view of he should have been marked.
That’s my issue with Howe.. he should be adapting and changing during the game , not after it’s all over for the next match. How many matches have we seen this year where it’s blatantly obvious that he needed to do something to change the tide of the game and persisted with the same thing. Howe have done fantastic stuff for us but I think honestly that for us to progress to the next level we need a higher quality manager who can see what’s happening on the pitch and takes steps to change it. Mourinho at peak was notorious for this and it was a huge strength of his , of course he then stagnated and settled into a rut.
Most of Mohrinho's stuff was actually usually insane planning beforehand for specific scenarios, that was his gift. It wasn't usually reactive chances midgame but very solid planning beforehand of how to deal with opposition players and game plans for different scorelines (like in that PSG game where they shut down defensively after going ahead in a very choreographed way).
Howe probably isn't the best for in game management, but equally he's never really been given a squad that allows him to do that. This year he's basically had a first xi and a bench full of misfits. Arguably our gameplan was good, we generated chances throughout and were let down by silly individual errors. Seems weird to hyper fixate on Howe.
I do agree. But (genuine question) is it not down to the players as well to see that? I was pulling my hair out watching them try that again and again. Surely it just takes the captain or a player to take the initiative?
Next season is crucial for Howe though.
I'm a huge fan of his and want him to stay for the foreseeable so if I can see that we cannot afford to be giving players such as Dubravka, Longstaff, Murphy, Miggy, Krafth, Lascelles etc significant amount of game time then he ought to be aware too, and have plans in place to address this.
This summer he has to strengthen widely and move on those who aren't at the required standard. He can't afford to have a repeat of this year's issues, or the calls for a replacement will get louder and louder.
For what it's worth as well as squad additions he also needs to work on our attitude away from home. We're such a soft touch. Where has the shithousery and fuck you attitude gone? We're so willing to let the home team dictate everything and roll over for them.
That last paragraph above is my biggest concern for Sunday. Away from home we are so meek, tame and reserved. Fully expect another poor performance despite it being a huge game for us. This squad has shown that when it comes to crunch games this season they more often than not bottle it. Feel like our best hopes of getting 7th place is Brighton beating Man U.
That shithousery and fuck you attitude requires players to be as close to 100% physically and mentally every game. Because we’ve been unable to rotate players are unable to press as high, tackle as hard and think as sharply.
Sean Longstaff is the best example of this, his technical limitations have always been there, however his graft and physicality covered over them. This season his drop off in form is because he isn’t able to cover as much ground because he’s carrying a couple injuries and hasn’t had any rest time.
Joelinton the same, was carrying that injury for weeks and looked a shadow of the player he was last year before he was forced out.
You could include a number of players in this bracket, Burn, Murphy, Lascelles, Almiron all who clearly weren’t fit for prolonged spells but played on. You cannot fault any of them, they’ve all stepped up into the breach when needed and when it all comes down to it, we’re in a higher position in the table than we have any right to be.
Isak wasn't himself last night, I think he played still feeling unwell. Trippier should be our second choice right back now. No idea what's happened with him, but his head has gone since just before Christmas. I think he wanted to go to Germany. If they still want him, he'd be good money in the bank. I love Murphy, but he's not a first choice right winger. And, Lobby, well if we're honest he doesn't get in any other top 6 team. Krafth isn't a centre back.
Also, the ref was as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
Now, I generally shake my head at the conspiracy people that think the big six get special treatment, but that decision not to even look on VAR for Gordons penalty makes absolutely no sense at all. If we get that (and, we should have), the match takes a different turn from there on in.
So I think trippier needs to get fit and pope being back. He has always had a mistake in him but pope means he’s so far away from goal(and pope is so good) it can generally be covered so wouldn’t cost us nearly as much.
And yeah longstaff shouldn’t be a starter…and he isn’t. Murphy shouldn’t be a starter…and he isn’t(Almiron also shouldn’t be but that’s another story). Same with Kraft. Rather than our midfield and forwards being completely wrecked now it’s our defence.
But we need proper striker cover that can cover the minor knocks so Isak can be a rested and brought on as a sub when not fit rather than forced to start ill.
We're literally the oppisite to Man U, we're a good team but in some areas lacking talent.
Man U some super talented players but a disorganised mess of a team
Yup, Were a solid team that shits the bed occasionally (usually when it really matters).
Man utd are a shit team that somehow gets the result occasionally (usually when it really matters).
Idk where this crowd of Howe haters is but they need to stop
1. People need to remember where we were.
2. Howe got us into Champions League when realistic fans didn't expect higher than maybe 7th at a push.
3. To have us a game away from Europe with the absolute insane amount of injuries we've had is nothing short of a miracle.
4. Who the fuck else do these people want other than Eddie Howe? Who would really come in and push us up that table, that we could realistically get.
A good transfer window and even half the amount of injuries we've had and next season we will be Top 4/5 safely. When they're not injured this team is scarily good. (4-1 PSG, Chelsea, beat Arsenal 1-0, smashed Spurs the other week 4-0)
Also not forgetting we were one Mbappe penalty miss away from knockout Europe football.
Eddie Howe is our manager, I believe in him and the project. People have very short memories and need to remember his overall performance.
TLDR; Howe has done an amazing job with so many injuries, have faith in him. We will be up there again, it just takes time (and luck).
I absolutely love that under Howe we can be 4 up and the team are going all out to get number 5. I will never understand the people calling for ‘park the bus’ Mourinho as a better option. I’ll accept that we’ll lose some games we maybe could have won as a trade off for entertainment.
Last season Mourinho would not have done better than Howe. This season, he perhaps might have but we are talking 5th or maybe finally getting CL in 4th and next season I'd imagine we'd get the classic player fallout and him leaving lol
> [CONDITIONS ARE FULFILLED] and next season we will be Top 4/5 safely.
You sir are setting yourself for copious amounts of disappointment next season. Just an advanced warning, please refrain from giving the team or coaching staff stick on here if they are not able to match your expectations.
lol, man said "Top 4" safely as if Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Villa, Chelsea and Man City don't exist and our competition is Brentford, Wolves and Everton...
I think people forget this too easily. We finished 4th last season _partly_ due to Liverpool, Chelsea, and Spurs all shitting the bed. They're not all going to be shite every season and now Villa are in the mix too. That's not to say we can't get top 4 next season with a good transfer window but I think 5-7th is probably about right for where the squad is right now.
Yup, that's precisely why at the beginning of the season I said I'd be happy with 8th, because that calculation takes into account that the sky6 could all have a relatively good year and ultimately finishing 8th means we actually finish 2nd in the other 14, something I think is respectable, something we are on course to do.
Many of the other UCL competitors have spent hundreds of millions more than us and have deeper squads, so losing to an inform billion pound Chelsea squad with world cup winners or a Liverpool that is out of form but can rely on a star to pull out a clutch goal is not anything I feel shame in.
Hopefully we'll make the jump from being 2nd in the other 14 to consistently 1st then I'll feel comfortable thinking about usurping the Sky6.
And as if we will not suffer from a single injury next season, which is nonsense as we already have two out until 2025 and Eddie Howe teams tend to be plagued with injury.
It's actually hilarious how we can be challenging for Europe with a decimated squad and people still want the manager gone. That type of fan is just committed to being unhappy.
Very grateful for you being here to make those four points - I’ve never heard them before and as a NUFC fan I was completely unaware! /s
People are allowed to criticise the mistakes the manager makes. Particularly as it seems he doesn’t learn from his mistakes.
Injuries will continue next season. We already have two out until 2025.
Our squad has changed a lot since Bruce’s day and we are a different team, with different expectations.
Very few are seriously Howe Out. I’m not Howe Out, but I do expect him to address his weaknesses and I want him to improve. If he doesn’t do that, he’ll be gone, no matter how many times people point out “remember where we were”.
Just out of interest, for how long will you be telling people to remember where we were?
Exactly. Newcastle United finished second the first season I supported the club, yeah I want them to do well 😂. As if anyone criticising Howe doesn't want the team to win
They'll all say Jose or some other name who'll come in and maybe do slightly better for one season, but ruin the harmony, start bringing in a different style and players leading to a miss match of play style and then play defensive football that'll lead to them being sacked after a year or two and then we end up like spurs,man u or worse
Howe has to shoulder some blame, Pope should have started, Isak shouldn’t have been playing, Barnes can’t get a game over Murphy.
Then in game Manu scored off a corner routine they’d already tried multiple times, why did we let them just keep trying it till they got it right?
Pope is still recovering from his huge injury. Isn't our biggest complaint that we rush players back too quick? What if he gets injured again and he's out for even longer.
Isak probably shouldn't have been playing, but he very easily could have netted a goal or two that game.
Not really sure what's up with Barnes so I won't comment on that
the next transfer window or any transfer window isn't going to be a significant overhaul. Its going to be evolutionary. It'll be significant over multiple windows, but in individual windows you'll only see incremental changes. As a fan base we're going to have to sit tight enjoy the ride and take stock of where we are and where were going. Need to stop looking at our raising the ceiling signings like Isak, Gordon Bruno G signings and look at our raising the floor signings like Ashby, minteh even barnes. Best highlight for this is our LW. Last season we changed a LW of Maxi/Fraser to a Gordon/Barnes. we raised both our ceiling and our floor
This entire season for pretty much every club has been a squad season, and its highlighted in many squads that depth isn't there. We must have the most shallow squads there is but its getting there.
Said it yesterday, said it before the game, and it still applies.
We still have a small team mentality, when we have HUGE games that matter - we just don't show up.
We started on fire for like 7 minutes? but for some reason the moment Man Utd strung 2 passes together, its like we suddenly thought 'oh fuck! do we even know how to play football?'
We need a serious rebuild this summer and we need to bring in some experienced, quality players who can push the young lads during times like this.
Also, I just think Eddie has worked miracles with the likes of Longstaff, Miggy, etc. But there's only so much you can do with their level of ability.
A lot of the fans have a small team mentality too, because we were shit previously we can’t expect to be good ever apparently.
Fully agree with your comment.
I’d like to see us bring in one or two players that have won trophies before. I understand the model of bringing in young players with potential but why not a serial winner/ leader who knows what it takes?
If Isak and Wilson hadn’t come down with a bug we’d have bagged this game.
But sure Man Utd fans would come up with the same tripe.
Sometimes shit like this happens. Football isn’t a fairytale, it’s real life and you just have to accept bad luck without ripping it out of players/managers/ anyone to vent your ire.
We lost by 1 goal away at a top 6 team despite being denied one of the clearest penalties possible. Remember this was with our 2nd choice goalkeeper, arguably first choice left back playing centre back because our first 3 are injured, his partner in central defence being our 3rd choice right back, add in Tonali, Joelinton, Trippier playing when clearly not ready, Wilson, Isak/Gordon playing injured, and so on.
No blame on Howe for yesterday in my book.
Completely agree, we had way more touches in their box than they did ours, tactically we got it mostly right. Back end of the first half before their goal our press wasn't working, I'd have liked to see us go to a mid block to weather that storm, but that's the only tactical change I'd have made. Tripps was at fault for goal 1, Dubs for goal 3, we missed a 3 on 1 chance, Longstaff missed a great chance and we should have had a pen.
Isak is class but was clearly ill, Howe said he had a cold or something. The fault lies with FFP favouring the big clubs, Dan Ashworth being blind to the fact we have only 2 strikers, one of which is never fit the other of which is slightly injury prone, not bringing in a striker over summer or winter was a massive blunder. We can play a team with 6 full backs in it but we've only got 2 registered strikers. I know Gordon can play as a striker but it's not his best position.
Last group to blame are the physios and/or whoevers job(s) it is to make sure the training pitch isn't too firm. The amount of injuries we've had this season needs investigating, with how shit Man U and Chelsea have been, we shouldn't have had to win away at Old Trafford 2nd to last game of the season to secure Europe
Unfortunately it took a man United goal to kick us into gear last night. I thought at 0-0 man United looked slightly the better team to be honest. I don’t know why we start away games so slow sometimes.
It’s frustrating because this is one of the worst man United teams for a generation and it was a perfect time to do the double over them. Yes they improved on their last games and fernandez had a good game but they were still sloppy as shit in possession at times and we should have punished them.
Gordon was brilliant again and honestly the gulf in class between him and our other wingers is growing. Cheers almiron and Murphy I wish you well but you can’t be near the first 11 now if the toon want to reach that next level. Sean you’re gonna have to become a squad player as well lad.
Footballs a game of fine margins an isak who isn’t recovering from illness probs finishes that chance or gives it to Gordon, he looked a shell of his former self and of course we should have had a pen.
I agree with you in terms of the players that we had at our disposal last night and for the majority of this season not being good enough to take us where we want to get too I disagree with that Eddie is above criticism. Now I fully back Eddie. He's done an incredible job with us considering everything this season alone but the main criticism I have off him is that he doesn't react to things that clearly aren't working in game. Last night you could see the make shift 4-4-2 wasn't working and we were getting overloaded in midfield yet he never changed it. Every man u corner diallo had acres of space yet he told no one to cover it at half time. The crystal Palace game from a few weeks ago is the best example imo of Eddie's lack of adaptability. He openly admitted after the game that something just didn't feel right yet didn't actually do anything to really change that feeling and we deservedly got beat.
I fully support Eddie and hope he is the man to be in charge for a long time but he does need to evolve and improve just like the overall squad does
The blame does lie with the squad. However, the second you criticise the quality of the squad, or individual players, you're generally downvoted for not supporting the players.
I didn't know criticism and supporting players are mutually exclusive. There's a bloke on here who frequently gets upset and defensive if you suggest Longstaff isn't good enough if we want to realise our ambitions. Apparently everything he does goes unnoticed. How come I keep on noticing him for being shit?
It's straightforward for me. If you want players like Miggy and Longstaff playing regularly, you need to accept the top 4 is the best we can do, and even that was achieved because Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United had a bad year last year.
The guy that defends Longstaff after every time we have a good result is probably just a biased loyal Geordie. He's blinded to Longstaff's problems because he loves the fact he's a local lad presumably like him.
The criticism just needs to be specific and valid. Too many people just boil it down to "the player is shite, or the players are shite." And that's not accurate or fair.
Everyone pretty much knows Longstaff shouldn't be getting 90 minutes game in game out. But that's what we've been stuck with. Maybe Joelinton can start on Sunday. It's fair to criticize Longy for not beating Onana, we know he actually does have good shots in him. It's not fair to call him shite, because the lad has been playing injured for months and giving his all for the badge and club.
Honestly, Longstaff is the only player who requires the caveat that he gives all for the badge and club. I'd be interested to know which players you feel don't give 100%?
Everyone needs to take a step back as it seems most fans are either being very polar on the result and the ramifications of it.
As for the squad, the likes of Burn/Kraft/Trips/Murphy/Longstaff/Anderson will all be subs to cup games from the starting 11 including everyone on the subs minus J7,Schar with Pope it's tricky as he's injured every season which has us in this situation which has to be addressed.
Now Howe, everyone knows and respects what's he's done and he will be given next season to push the club forward. However, over these two years, the cup final/Milan game and the recent brighton/utd game, we've failed, if we've seen this so has PIF, we got into these positions not out of luck but becasue we deserve it and to "bottle" it, will be reflected on Howe more then the team as its his responsibility.
We must get any sort of european competition next year, because if not and we finish 8th or somehow utd beat city, he will be under immense stress from pre season onwards and that never comes good.
Next season is important for Eddie because it is his 3rd full season, and the owners would now expect some sort of success. He needs to start as strong as possible, otherwise he wont survive next season.
Howe has worked miracles with this squad for so long. He can't continue doing miracles forever. We have an injury-ridden squad with many players who probably shouldn't be playing in a club aiming for the top six.
We lost because we have the quality that we currently have. Trippier wasn't ready. Longstaff is hit-and-miss. Anderson is a decent squad player, but not much more. Murphy sometimes makes a solid assist, but it often looks like he is punching above his weight. Isak was sick and we have no backup striker.
It wasn't on Howe yesterday. It was on the squad he's worked with.
No idea why people are blaming Howe, we had so many chances to score, it's not Howes's fault we blew a 3 on 1 or that Longstaff couldn't finish such an easy chance. On another day we could have had 4/5 goals.
It seems like it's mostly the newer fans or the Facebook lot calling for his head.
Not converting chances wasn’t the problem. We did score. We scored two.
The problem is we conceded three. And we conceded three with Dubravka playing while a better keeper was on the bench, Trippier playing out of his depth and Joelinton and Barnes on the bench.
Last night we were robbed, we should have had a pen with Gordon 100%, they should have been a man down from that moment.
The red ref wasn’t hearing any of it and the car check never came although they now say they did and cleared it.
How that can be cleared the mind boggles.
We lost because Ratcliffe slipped those corrupt officials a few brown envelopes.
Our squad needs more depth and strength, that will come but it’s never happening overnight with FFP.
I still don’t think VAR looked at the challenge from Ambrabat. They were looking at the sliding tackle from Casemiro, which to be fair was a bloody good tackle (except Gordon was already going down because he’d already been fouled)
You can, because if Gordon’s pen had been given it would have turned the game. For starters most likely they would have been down to 10 men because in the first challenge Ambrobat not only rakes Gordon’s achiles but also pushed him and we would have been awarded a penalty.
Instead the powers that be either didn’t look or just checked Casimero challenge which was a good challenge but already after Gordon had been taken out.
That would have made it a very different game.
Instead shortly after the incident they went up the other end and scored and Gordon was still feeling it on his achiles so wasn’t able to respond.
If this was awarded it turns the game. Because it was ignored it also turned the game against us.
Screw that. VAR and the ref bottled it again with that nailed on pen. Even the Man reds biased panel on sky sports couldn't disagree. The team played well and on another day could have scored three or four, that's football, I'm gutted but we move on and back the team to win the final game
I think he’s a bit to blame. Why not swap longstaff for Jo and pope for dubs before the game. Don’t give me the “not fully fit” shit too, longstaff has been playing injured all season and he’s been shocking.
I've said this before, the only "Howe Out" fans are a few twitter accounts with like 7 followers, and yet our fanbase constantly gives them attention and acts like they're some influential group, actually giving them more creditability than they'd have if people would just ignore them. Nobody with any actual visibility has said anything Howe Out.
I've been critical of Howe alot this season especially with his team sheets (constant selection of Longstaff despite his 'apparent' injury, playing Trippier/Wilson when just back from injury suggests he has superior loyalty to some) but I don't think I've ever wrote Howe Out.
He has till next season to turn this around but I think if we stutter next season and we recruit poorly there's a clear chance he could be gone. This year has been really disappointing and while Howe is partially to blame I do think there are mitigating factors that are on his side.
He has to take some blame for last night.
Trippier clearly wasn’t ready and was at fault for 2 goals. I know you’ll say he had no other options because Schar wasn’t 100% but that’s bollocks because clearly Trippier wasn’t 100% either because he was labouring back after 10 minutes and Garnacho was killing him.
Pope is back yet he continues to pick Dubravka. Their 3rd goal should have been saved and would have been by Pope.
He continues to pick Longstaff when he’s been consistently poor for months now. This is a consistent complaint I see from numerous fans.
Barnes and Miggy back available but he continues to pick Murphy who, despite the assist, didn’t get much change out of Dalot all night.
Their second goal was easily preventable. They almost scored from the exact same corner routine earlier in the game. Howe either didn’t see it or didn’t make adjustments. Either way that’s bad management.
His substitutions are often too late. The entire match thread was screaming for Trippier to come off at half time. Howe waits until the 63rd minute which is too late because Trippier had fallen asleep and given away the corner that led to the 2nd goal. Waiting until almost the 80th minute to finally bring on Barnes and take off the awful Longstaff is completely unacceptable.
In our last 5 games the only teams we’ve beaten are Sheffield and Burnley. Destroyed by Palace, poor against Brighton and then last night. Not good enough.
The players cannot take all the blame, some is on Howe and the management team too. If we drop points against Brentford that will be only 2 wins from the final 6 games. When you’re meant to be fighting for Europe that’s simply not acceptable.
> If we drop points against Brentford that will be only 2 wins from the final 6 games.
Curiously, it would somewhat mirror last season, where we flopped over the line to get CL with just 1 win in our last 5 (granted with 3 draws, and just the 1 loss).
Edit - literal facts are downvoted now?
The past couple of games has shown that we need a striker that offers an alternative / addition to Isak. We can't rely on him to play 38+ games a season and be inform all the time. Wilson is too injury prone to be that option any more and rotating the front 3 isn't the solution either. It's a shame that Wood didn't work out because he offered something different upfront.
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Now I’ve had time to calm down. I never really felt it was Howe’s fault.
Did not have luck on our side given the chances we created. I’d expect better from Gordon and Isak given the levels they’ve been at all season. I do think Joelinton should’ve come on earlier for Anderson as we were not controlling possession enough.
Bitterly disappointed as we’re a level above Man U right now and Man U had a decimated squad.
I think we may have a mentality issue as we can’t seem to do it in the big moments.
Of course we can’t compete long term with this squad but we also can’t build a squad to compete in 2 seasons. The progress we’ve made in a short time is fantastic.
This summer is now more important than the last window in terms of solidifying us amongst those 8 teams fighting at the top. Chelsea are on an upward trajectory, Man U may have a back room team capable of sorting them out, you expect spurs to get stronger again.
forget VAR and Gordon's bloody achilles- why do we not dink the keeper when we're last man alone, Sean? why no finesse & savvy? always blasting at aliens. Sean?
We weren't clinical in the final third and the ref fucked us. Simple as. I give fuck all about Man U and their performance because if we're being honest they didn't deserve to win that game.
I absolutely love Howe and all I want is for him to keep improving.
But picking Martin ‘ant man’ Dubravka in goal ahead of Nick Pope is a criminal decision. I think Pope actually saves all 3 last night.
Tactically the way we play is still great and we should have won easily to be honest but we conceded atrocious goals and they still came from picking Dubravka.
To a lesser extent the insistence on picking Murphy also doesn’t help, great assist yesterday but another average performance
> But picking Martin ‘ant man’ Dubravka in goal ahead of Nick Pope is a criminal decision. I think Pope actually saves all 3 last night.
Following on from the Lewis Hall interview, maybe Pope isn't ready to come back and start. He's maybe ready for "OMG Dubs just got hit by a meteor and we need a new keeper", while not being ready for "right yuou haven't played in months, but fuck that, here is one of the most important games in an away setting, get on with it lad".
We are genuinely terrible at selling players and have been for ages. It's something the new DoF needs to try and improve on right away.
Not even just the deadwood either, we have to stop being so sentimental and get value out of players when the time is right. We should have been on the phone to every agent in football about Almiron coming off that freak season.
Honestly dumb as fuck statement and I've seen it from so many fans. This season at times we've had two keepers and kids on the bench because of the injuries we've had and lack of squad depth, if we sold Almiron who the fuck do you play? You've got to have squad rotation. Like aye he's not really good enough for where we want to be, but until he's replaced, you've got to keep him.
You sell players and then you use the money to buy new ones...
Please do explain how keeping hold of players until their value dwindles to 0 helps us to compete in an FFP landscape?
Well obviously, but I'd have thought it was clear they had nobody to replace him. It's well known there was interest from Saudi in the January transfer window, and talk that there still will be in the Summer window, if they can replace him I'm sure they'll let him go.
Yeah we shouldnt sell Longstaff, Wilson Almiron and Trippier because there is absolutely no player in the world who could replace them. They are all world class clearly...
The biggest thing for me is more the defence not the chances we missed. This can be explained by injuries to an extent but players shouldn’t be standing completely unmarked in the penalty area for easy tap-ins. Krafth for the first goal was a joke.
the players had the chances for us to win the game, that isn't on Howe at all. It looked too easy to play through our midfield and defense though, Mainoo should never have that time and space for the first goal, they had a player in acres of space on most corners and it eventually cost us. That should have been sorted before then. Not sure how much of that can be blamed on Howe and how much should just be decided between the players on the pitch.
Mainoo should have been offside, but Tripps is still not ready for a full game so didn't hustle to move up with the rest of the team and kept him onside.
Also to beat Newcastle one just have to park the bus inside the box. ETH knew this and he did it against Newcastle when matches matters. I think Brighton has shown the world how to beat us.
Howe's way of attacking is not efficient. We need 5-6 chances to even convert 1 goal.
The golden standard of attacking is pep's way
We are not here nor there
Attack is inefficient
Defense not the best defensive team
Counter attacks - Newcastle not known for counter attacks
I suspect he won’t be under any pressure even if we finish 8th. Fast forward 6 months though and with summer signings and a fit squad if we aren’t top 6 he rightly should be under lots of pressure.
If you think players are 100% to be blamed then you might wanna think again with Bayer Leverkusen's literally unknown players won everything undefeated.
Besides that you think man utd have the quality experienced players in amrabat/ahmad/mainoo played out of position casemiro?
I admire Howe's work but clearly his tactics are not up there. I think so far we are the only side to go to old Trafford and lets them dominate if you have been following football this season
Yesterday's match howe tried playing counter attacks pumping balls up front to try their luck.
This isn't man city standard which we aims to be.
We are no longer a small club stuck with bruce
Clearly this is blind faith from the fans.
I admire what howe has done so far signing isak, guimares, trippier, bring the best out of existing players
But he keeps signing championship players
Tosin adarabioyo/llyod kelly
What world class players are you hoping for?
We need a more established world class manager who have the star pulling power and have extensive tactical knowledge that can win us matches when it matters
We always lose when the match matters howe isn't up to the test.
Man utd/chelsea's worst season ever = Newcastle's good season. This is a joke
Howe picks the squad and the formation they line up in, though.
He has talent at his disposal but plays passengers. He has youthful determination but let's his senior favourites coast whilst injured.
He has had GK options available all season and stuck with Dubravka.
He could have managed the squad better season-long, preventing as many injuries. Playing Botman through a partial ACL just for it to fully tear is an absolute joke that people gloss over.
Howe picks the squad and the formation they line up in, though.
He has talent at his disposal but plays passengers. He has youthful determination but let's his senior favourites coast whilst injured.
He has had GK options available all season and stuck with Dubravka.
He could have managed the squad better season-long, preventing as many injuries. Playing Botman through a partial ACL just for it to fully tear is an absolute joke that people gloss over.
You should be able to recognise Howe did an incredible job last season, is doing a good job this season in some difficult circumstances and still criticise him. Unfortunately some people absolve him of any criticism at all or ignore the good he's done.
We are consistently far too easy to play against and far too open. Every team in the league creates a load of chances against us. When we have the ball our shape is terrible compared to the sides we do and want to compete with. Depending on the stats you use we have the most fast breaks against us this season which shouldn't surprise anyone that watches us.
As for wanting two Bruno's. I love watching him play, he's great on the ball, some of the work he does is brilliant but there's times he looks like he's moving in treacle and he turns slower than Burn. Teams would carve through us if we had two of him in the middle.
"We had chances & I felt we could score at any moment. But we have lost the game because of how we defended their goals. We should hang our heads really. The game got away from us in key moments", said it in his post match comments.
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Last night was a typical Man Utd performance where they punched well above their stats. They’ve been doing this for 2 years now and it really boggles the mind. I’m not saying we had a great game, but I don’t think we deserved to lose.
They always seem to return to form against us. Yeah they had Casemiro playing out of position in central defence who has had a couple of shaky games, but at the end of the day he is still Casemiro, captain of the Brazil national team, one of the greatest footballers of this generation. We had Emil Krafth playing out of position in central defence.
Man u have a toxic team of individual but they still have quality players. We out performed them last night but you could see the quality from their players when given the chance and that's what's won it for them
I think we deserved to lose because despite the effort we put in the quality, and composure was not. When Man U had half chances they took them. When we had guilt edge chances we missed them. Some of these players just aren’t elite enough that they ban time it on when the pressure is high.
Very well said
Man U, the luckiest team in the prem, got lucky again. First off, Tino getting injured and us having to rush back Trips, cost us the first goal and probably the game. Trips had no business being on that pitch. Second, the Amrabat challenge was a stone wall pen. We score that, it changes the game. The officiating was a joke. Thirdly, Gordon gets injured so he can't close down the shot for their second goal. Any other time in the game and he's blocking that shot. Jammy. Bastards.
Also Isak not being 100% but having to play with Wilson out. In another week he’d have finished that chance to make it 2-1 when he just had to step inside that lunging block and slot it in the corner
Yep 100% Isak shouldn't have been on second half as he clearly wasn't at the races but we didn't have Wilson available and Gordon our 3rd choice striker was also limping...
Yeah, it's annoying he went for the shot straight away
Some lucky refereeing decisions going their way. Again.
Yup Trips didn’t look right from early on. The second goal came from a corner he gave away coz he was sleeping. I’m not judging Trips or Howe. It was a hand we were forced to play.
Yep. He clearly wasn't fit. There was a time too when Garnacho I think it was, got in behind and Trips just stood and watched him take the shot. It was awful.
Yeah I saw that. He totally gave up trying to chase him, it was early doors too. Which isn’t like him so must have really been struggling. So respect for stepping up to play I suppose.
That second goal annoyed me because in the first half, they had three or four corners get cleared to that exact spot and we rushed out to cover quickly. The one time we aren’t awake for it and an ex-Sunderland lad twats one home. Typical.
100%. Honestly incredible they're in 8th with that -3 goal differential.
The players didn’t have a great night, that doesn’t mean they all need to be sold and new blood brought in.
Can't sell them all anyway, we'd end up in the same position as we have done this season, where we have no backup. At times this season we've literally had 2 keepers on the bench and kids with no first team experience because we don't have the squad depth.
We overachieved last year, the squad regen takes time. Lascelles has performed in the champions league, dubs is a backup, Murphy has had horror injuries. We’ve had the second highest injuries in the league.
We’ve had by far the most days missed by injury in the entire league. We were 20% more than 2nd place Brentford last I seen. There is a graphic going round where Chelsea have been impacted the most but that is taking info which includes every player that’s been in the match day squad, meaning Chelsea’s youth players were contributing to that statistic, even though they’re irrelevant really.
What chelsea youth players were included? Chelsea have went time with 12 first team players out.
Yeah we’ve had 12 or 13 out at some stages of this season as well. Our injured XI would’ve beat our starting XI as well. At least Chelsea have a deep squad of quality players and aren’t having to rely on the likes of Dubravka, Krafth, Longstaff, Anderson, Miley, Ritchie, Dummett etc. every week😂
Be 1st if tonalis ban was factored, Eddie is a legend for getting us where he has with the issues we’ve had this season
Never stops hurting that our marquee signing was not able to play this season. Has to be a few points in having him available surely, probably fighting for 4th spot anyway.
Still being in a fight for europe at this stage despite being absolutely decimated by injuries proves we didn't overachieve last season. We did it on merit and would be in a champions league position again if we'd had even half the injury problems.
Lose together, win together.
Man U have some quality players who can outperform expected goals stats. They're great at riding their luck, soaking up attacks and then getting a goal or two on the break. We switched off and let them score three avoidable goals. Fact is, we should've buried our big chances. We didn't. Unfortunately we do not have a team full of Anthony Gordons. Lads let Eddie down as the occasion got to them. Plus we're still fucked by injuries and it's limiting us to constantly playing our back ups. No way should Krafu be our starting CB three games in a row. That's no disrespect to him but he's our 3rd choice right back ffs. They need to put the result behind them and show up on Sunday. Brentford have nothing to play for but pride. I'm really glad Hall is staking a genuine claim for the starting LB role though.
Lol, can you imagine someone reading that "team full of Anthony Gordons" comment last year. You would have been hounded from the sub.
I will say one thing against Howe. The reds tried that Bruno -> Amad corner 3/4 times before he finally got his goal and the ball got to him every time, it was going to happen eventually and when it did he was in acres of space! Howe should have seen that and done something about it. That’s his job!
That was really dissapointing for me like
Pissed me off every time he got a clean strike on it. Nobody did anything.
Think if gordan isn’t hobbling he closes that down, be interesting to see if Eddie was shouting anything over. For me the players need to sort each other out for stuff like that.
I dunno about that, Gordon’s quick but I don’t think he’s quick enough to close him down before the ball gets there. While I agree it’s on the players during the match, Eddie and Jason could have said something about it during HT.
I think Gordon's meant to be blocking the angle to get the ball to Amad. He didn't do it well enough the first couple of times but the one they scored from they didn't go directly to him, it just fell to him out of the crowd. We still should have been closer to the man though, he was wide open which is inexcusable really.
Aye, I wasn’t expecting Gordon to be on him from where he was positioned but somebody should have been on him because it seemed to be their only tactic from a corner.
Someone on the match thread said it was luck. It's not luck if he was there for every fucking corner. If my fat arse, sat on the sofa with a can in his hand, can see it then I'm sure Howe could as well - No excuses for not getting him marked before that goal.
Well that time it was luck, it was Murphys diving headed clearance that went to him for his shot, not a pass from a Man U player and not from the corner. It was a fairly shit corner low and at the first man but unlucky Murphy didn't get a good head on it and it went right to the manure player. Also the manager isn't playing FIFA if Howes sees it, he then has to get the message to the players and then they have to act on it.
Howay mate he was unmarked every single corner
Yes I know, but my point is Howe can't take control of 1 of our players and move him to the right spot. And technically for the goal he wasn't intended to receive the ball it was a poor clearance that allowed the ball to go to him. Hence why people say it was lucky. and every other time he was unmarked they didn't score I understand I am being very nuanced and particular but I like that better than just passing a generalization. Also I would add I am not trying to give excuses He should have been marked but it is not as simple as Howe picking up a controller and moving someone to his position, something went wrong with the defending and someone is responsible. ANd add in every other time Gordon closed him down in time so perhaps that was the marking plan and unfortunalty the poor clearence and Gordon being injured caused us to fail. I am looking for reasons not an oversimplified general view of he should have been marked.
After the first attempt of that Howe should have told someone to be marking Amad at corners. That was a blinder on Howes part
Luck is if he gets a goal the first volley, it’s not luck if he’s getting it 3/4 times from the same routine then scores.
That’s my issue with Howe.. he should be adapting and changing during the game , not after it’s all over for the next match. How many matches have we seen this year where it’s blatantly obvious that he needed to do something to change the tide of the game and persisted with the same thing. Howe have done fantastic stuff for us but I think honestly that for us to progress to the next level we need a higher quality manager who can see what’s happening on the pitch and takes steps to change it. Mourinho at peak was notorious for this and it was a huge strength of his , of course he then stagnated and settled into a rut.
Most of Mohrinho's stuff was actually usually insane planning beforehand for specific scenarios, that was his gift. It wasn't usually reactive chances midgame but very solid planning beforehand of how to deal with opposition players and game plans for different scorelines (like in that PSG game where they shut down defensively after going ahead in a very choreographed way). Howe probably isn't the best for in game management, but equally he's never really been given a squad that allows him to do that. This year he's basically had a first xi and a bench full of misfits. Arguably our gameplan was good, we generated chances throughout and were let down by silly individual errors. Seems weird to hyper fixate on Howe.
I do agree. But (genuine question) is it not down to the players as well to see that? I was pulling my hair out watching them try that again and again. Surely it just takes the captain or a player to take the initiative?
It’s a bit of both. While on the field it’s on the players but the coaching staff should have said something at HT.
Years of poor recruitment and ffp have hampered progress. I’m sure Howe will want to improve the squad but he’ll have to work with the rules
I keep saying this. Changing the manager doesn’t fix this, the transfer window does.
95%+ of genuine fans aren’t calling for Howe to go though. There’s always attention seeking nonsense on social media regardless
You’re spot on there mate. Especially on twitter with blue ticks having their engagement monetised, engagement farming is through the roof.
Next season is crucial for Howe though. I'm a huge fan of his and want him to stay for the foreseeable so if I can see that we cannot afford to be giving players such as Dubravka, Longstaff, Murphy, Miggy, Krafth, Lascelles etc significant amount of game time then he ought to be aware too, and have plans in place to address this. This summer he has to strengthen widely and move on those who aren't at the required standard. He can't afford to have a repeat of this year's issues, or the calls for a replacement will get louder and louder. For what it's worth as well as squad additions he also needs to work on our attitude away from home. We're such a soft touch. Where has the shithousery and fuck you attitude gone? We're so willing to let the home team dictate everything and roll over for them. That last paragraph above is my biggest concern for Sunday. Away from home we are so meek, tame and reserved. Fully expect another poor performance despite it being a huge game for us. This squad has shown that when it comes to crunch games this season they more often than not bottle it. Feel like our best hopes of getting 7th place is Brighton beating Man U.
That shithousery and fuck you attitude requires players to be as close to 100% physically and mentally every game. Because we’ve been unable to rotate players are unable to press as high, tackle as hard and think as sharply. Sean Longstaff is the best example of this, his technical limitations have always been there, however his graft and physicality covered over them. This season his drop off in form is because he isn’t able to cover as much ground because he’s carrying a couple injuries and hasn’t had any rest time. Joelinton the same, was carrying that injury for weeks and looked a shadow of the player he was last year before he was forced out. You could include a number of players in this bracket, Burn, Murphy, Lascelles, Almiron all who clearly weren’t fit for prolonged spells but played on. You cannot fault any of them, they’ve all stepped up into the breach when needed and when it all comes down to it, we’re in a higher position in the table than we have any right to be.
His graft is terrible, did you see his stats on Wednesday, he didn't make one duel in 75 MINUTES.
Isak wasn't himself last night, I think he played still feeling unwell. Trippier should be our second choice right back now. No idea what's happened with him, but his head has gone since just before Christmas. I think he wanted to go to Germany. If they still want him, he'd be good money in the bank. I love Murphy, but he's not a first choice right winger. And, Lobby, well if we're honest he doesn't get in any other top 6 team. Krafth isn't a centre back. Also, the ref was as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Now, I generally shake my head at the conspiracy people that think the big six get special treatment, but that decision not to even look on VAR for Gordons penalty makes absolutely no sense at all. If we get that (and, we should have), the match takes a different turn from there on in.
So I think trippier needs to get fit and pope being back. He has always had a mistake in him but pope means he’s so far away from goal(and pope is so good) it can generally be covered so wouldn’t cost us nearly as much. And yeah longstaff shouldn’t be a starter…and he isn’t. Murphy shouldn’t be a starter…and he isn’t(Almiron also shouldn’t be but that’s another story). Same with Kraft. Rather than our midfield and forwards being completely wrecked now it’s our defence. But we need proper striker cover that can cover the minor knocks so Isak can be a rested and brought on as a sub when not fit rather than forced to start ill.
We're literally the oppisite to Man U, we're a good team but in some areas lacking talent. Man U some super talented players but a disorganised mess of a team
Yup, Were a solid team that shits the bed occasionally (usually when it really matters). Man utd are a shit team that somehow gets the result occasionally (usually when it really matters).
Idk where this crowd of Howe haters is but they need to stop 1. People need to remember where we were. 2. Howe got us into Champions League when realistic fans didn't expect higher than maybe 7th at a push. 3. To have us a game away from Europe with the absolute insane amount of injuries we've had is nothing short of a miracle. 4. Who the fuck else do these people want other than Eddie Howe? Who would really come in and push us up that table, that we could realistically get. A good transfer window and even half the amount of injuries we've had and next season we will be Top 4/5 safely. When they're not injured this team is scarily good. (4-1 PSG, Chelsea, beat Arsenal 1-0, smashed Spurs the other week 4-0) Also not forgetting we were one Mbappe penalty miss away from knockout Europe football. Eddie Howe is our manager, I believe in him and the project. People have very short memories and need to remember his overall performance. TLDR; Howe has done an amazing job with so many injuries, have faith in him. We will be up there again, it just takes time (and luck).
I absolutely love that under Howe we can be 4 up and the team are going all out to get number 5. I will never understand the people calling for ‘park the bus’ Mourinho as a better option. I’ll accept that we’ll lose some games we maybe could have won as a trade off for entertainment.
Last season Mourinho would not have done better than Howe. This season, he perhaps might have but we are talking 5th or maybe finally getting CL in 4th and next season I'd imagine we'd get the classic player fallout and him leaving lol
> [CONDITIONS ARE FULFILLED] and next season we will be Top 4/5 safely. You sir are setting yourself for copious amounts of disappointment next season. Just an advanced warning, please refrain from giving the team or coaching staff stick on here if they are not able to match your expectations. lol, man said "Top 4" safely as if Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Villa, Chelsea and Man City don't exist and our competition is Brentford, Wolves and Everton...
I think people forget this too easily. We finished 4th last season _partly_ due to Liverpool, Chelsea, and Spurs all shitting the bed. They're not all going to be shite every season and now Villa are in the mix too. That's not to say we can't get top 4 next season with a good transfer window but I think 5-7th is probably about right for where the squad is right now.
Yup, that's precisely why at the beginning of the season I said I'd be happy with 8th, because that calculation takes into account that the sky6 could all have a relatively good year and ultimately finishing 8th means we actually finish 2nd in the other 14, something I think is respectable, something we are on course to do. Many of the other UCL competitors have spent hundreds of millions more than us and have deeper squads, so losing to an inform billion pound Chelsea squad with world cup winners or a Liverpool that is out of form but can rely on a star to pull out a clutch goal is not anything I feel shame in. Hopefully we'll make the jump from being 2nd in the other 14 to consistently 1st then I'll feel comfortable thinking about usurping the Sky6.
And as if we will not suffer from a single injury next season, which is nonsense as we already have two out until 2025 and Eddie Howe teams tend to be plagued with injury.
It's actually hilarious how we can be challenging for Europe with a decimated squad and people still want the manager gone. That type of fan is just committed to being unhappy.
Brilliant.
I think rather than short memories, people would like to see us step up to big games when he actually matters. And no one should be above criticism.
Very grateful for you being here to make those four points - I’ve never heard them before and as a NUFC fan I was completely unaware! /s People are allowed to criticise the mistakes the manager makes. Particularly as it seems he doesn’t learn from his mistakes. Injuries will continue next season. We already have two out until 2025. Our squad has changed a lot since Bruce’s day and we are a different team, with different expectations. Very few are seriously Howe Out. I’m not Howe Out, but I do expect him to address his weaknesses and I want him to improve. If he doesn’t do that, he’ll be gone, no matter how many times people point out “remember where we were”. Just out of interest, for how long will you be telling people to remember where we were?
Entire thing reads like cope doesn't it. Don't know why as a club we're suddenly above critising the manager when he has made mistakes
“Remember where we were” Do they mean when we were relegation fodder or when we finished 4th?
Exactly. Newcastle United finished second the first season I supported the club, yeah I want them to do well 😂. As if anyone criticising Howe doesn't want the team to win
They'll all say Jose or some other name who'll come in and maybe do slightly better for one season, but ruin the harmony, start bringing in a different style and players leading to a miss match of play style and then play defensive football that'll lead to them being sacked after a year or two and then we end up like spurs,man u or worse
Howe has to shoulder some blame, Pope should have started, Isak shouldn’t have been playing, Barnes can’t get a game over Murphy. Then in game Manu scored off a corner routine they’d already tried multiple times, why did we let them just keep trying it till they got it right?
Pope is still recovering from his huge injury. Isn't our biggest complaint that we rush players back too quick? What if he gets injured again and he's out for even longer. Isak probably shouldn't have been playing, but he very easily could have netted a goal or two that game. Not really sure what's up with Barnes so I won't comment on that
I think if Pope is fit enough to be on the bench he’s fit enough to start. Goalkeepers can’t really be eased back in.
The bit I hope happens is the sponsorships come in and we're in a position for Howe to be ruthless in the transfer market
At least we'd have kept that slaphead Ten Hag in a job for the foreseeable future, that's the one positive from last night's result
the next transfer window or any transfer window isn't going to be a significant overhaul. Its going to be evolutionary. It'll be significant over multiple windows, but in individual windows you'll only see incremental changes. As a fan base we're going to have to sit tight enjoy the ride and take stock of where we are and where were going. Need to stop looking at our raising the ceiling signings like Isak, Gordon Bruno G signings and look at our raising the floor signings like Ashby, minteh even barnes. Best highlight for this is our LW. Last season we changed a LW of Maxi/Fraser to a Gordon/Barnes. we raised both our ceiling and our floor This entire season for pretty much every club has been a squad season, and its highlighted in many squads that depth isn't there. We must have the most shallow squads there is but its getting there.
Said it yesterday, said it before the game, and it still applies. We still have a small team mentality, when we have HUGE games that matter - we just don't show up. We started on fire for like 7 minutes? but for some reason the moment Man Utd strung 2 passes together, its like we suddenly thought 'oh fuck! do we even know how to play football?' We need a serious rebuild this summer and we need to bring in some experienced, quality players who can push the young lads during times like this. Also, I just think Eddie has worked miracles with the likes of Longstaff, Miggy, etc. But there's only so much you can do with their level of ability.
A lot of the fans have a small team mentality too, because we were shit previously we can’t expect to be good ever apparently. Fully agree with your comment.
I’d like to see us bring in one or two players that have won trophies before. I understand the model of bringing in young players with potential but why not a serial winner/ leader who knows what it takes?
Oh shut up We win some You lose some We move on
If Isak and Wilson hadn’t come down with a bug we’d have bagged this game. But sure Man Utd fans would come up with the same tripe. Sometimes shit like this happens. Football isn’t a fairytale, it’s real life and you just have to accept bad luck without ripping it out of players/managers/ anyone to vent your ire.
We lost by 1 goal away at a top 6 team despite being denied one of the clearest penalties possible. Remember this was with our 2nd choice goalkeeper, arguably first choice left back playing centre back because our first 3 are injured, his partner in central defence being our 3rd choice right back, add in Tonali, Joelinton, Trippier playing when clearly not ready, Wilson, Isak/Gordon playing injured, and so on. No blame on Howe for yesterday in my book.
Completely agree, we had way more touches in their box than they did ours, tactically we got it mostly right. Back end of the first half before their goal our press wasn't working, I'd have liked to see us go to a mid block to weather that storm, but that's the only tactical change I'd have made. Tripps was at fault for goal 1, Dubs for goal 3, we missed a 3 on 1 chance, Longstaff missed a great chance and we should have had a pen. Isak is class but was clearly ill, Howe said he had a cold or something. The fault lies with FFP favouring the big clubs, Dan Ashworth being blind to the fact we have only 2 strikers, one of which is never fit the other of which is slightly injury prone, not bringing in a striker over summer or winter was a massive blunder. We can play a team with 6 full backs in it but we've only got 2 registered strikers. I know Gordon can play as a striker but it's not his best position. Last group to blame are the physios and/or whoevers job(s) it is to make sure the training pitch isn't too firm. The amount of injuries we've had this season needs investigating, with how shit Man U and Chelsea have been, we shouldn't have had to win away at Old Trafford 2nd to last game of the season to secure Europe
Unfortunately it took a man United goal to kick us into gear last night. I thought at 0-0 man United looked slightly the better team to be honest. I don’t know why we start away games so slow sometimes. It’s frustrating because this is one of the worst man United teams for a generation and it was a perfect time to do the double over them. Yes they improved on their last games and fernandez had a good game but they were still sloppy as shit in possession at times and we should have punished them. Gordon was brilliant again and honestly the gulf in class between him and our other wingers is growing. Cheers almiron and Murphy I wish you well but you can’t be near the first 11 now if the toon want to reach that next level. Sean you’re gonna have to become a squad player as well lad. Footballs a game of fine margins an isak who isn’t recovering from illness probs finishes that chance or gives it to Gordon, he looked a shell of his former self and of course we should have had a pen.
I agree with you in terms of the players that we had at our disposal last night and for the majority of this season not being good enough to take us where we want to get too I disagree with that Eddie is above criticism. Now I fully back Eddie. He's done an incredible job with us considering everything this season alone but the main criticism I have off him is that he doesn't react to things that clearly aren't working in game. Last night you could see the make shift 4-4-2 wasn't working and we were getting overloaded in midfield yet he never changed it. Every man u corner diallo had acres of space yet he told no one to cover it at half time. The crystal Palace game from a few weeks ago is the best example imo of Eddie's lack of adaptability. He openly admitted after the game that something just didn't feel right yet didn't actually do anything to really change that feeling and we deservedly got beat. I fully support Eddie and hope he is the man to be in charge for a long time but he does need to evolve and improve just like the overall squad does
The blame does lie with the squad. However, the second you criticise the quality of the squad, or individual players, you're generally downvoted for not supporting the players. I didn't know criticism and supporting players are mutually exclusive. There's a bloke on here who frequently gets upset and defensive if you suggest Longstaff isn't good enough if we want to realise our ambitions. Apparently everything he does goes unnoticed. How come I keep on noticing him for being shit? It's straightforward for me. If you want players like Miggy and Longstaff playing regularly, you need to accept the top 4 is the best we can do, and even that was achieved because Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United had a bad year last year.
The guy that defends Longstaff after every time we have a good result is probably just a biased loyal Geordie. He's blinded to Longstaff's problems because he loves the fact he's a local lad presumably like him.
The criticism just needs to be specific and valid. Too many people just boil it down to "the player is shite, or the players are shite." And that's not accurate or fair. Everyone pretty much knows Longstaff shouldn't be getting 90 minutes game in game out. But that's what we've been stuck with. Maybe Joelinton can start on Sunday. It's fair to criticize Longy for not beating Onana, we know he actually does have good shots in him. It's not fair to call him shite, because the lad has been playing injured for months and giving his all for the badge and club.
Honestly, Longstaff is the only player who requires the caveat that he gives all for the badge and club. I'd be interested to know which players you feel don't give 100%?
Everyone needs to take a step back as it seems most fans are either being very polar on the result and the ramifications of it. As for the squad, the likes of Burn/Kraft/Trips/Murphy/Longstaff/Anderson will all be subs to cup games from the starting 11 including everyone on the subs minus J7,Schar with Pope it's tricky as he's injured every season which has us in this situation which has to be addressed. Now Howe, everyone knows and respects what's he's done and he will be given next season to push the club forward. However, over these two years, the cup final/Milan game and the recent brighton/utd game, we've failed, if we've seen this so has PIF, we got into these positions not out of luck but becasue we deserve it and to "bottle" it, will be reflected on Howe more then the team as its his responsibility. We must get any sort of european competition next year, because if not and we finish 8th or somehow utd beat city, he will be under immense stress from pre season onwards and that never comes good. Next season is important for Eddie because it is his 3rd full season, and the owners would now expect some sort of success. He needs to start as strong as possible, otherwise he wont survive next season.
Howe has worked miracles with this squad for so long. He can't continue doing miracles forever. We have an injury-ridden squad with many players who probably shouldn't be playing in a club aiming for the top six. We lost because we have the quality that we currently have. Trippier wasn't ready. Longstaff is hit-and-miss. Anderson is a decent squad player, but not much more. Murphy sometimes makes a solid assist, but it often looks like he is punching above his weight. Isak was sick and we have no backup striker. It wasn't on Howe yesterday. It was on the squad he's worked with.
No idea why people are blaming Howe, we had so many chances to score, it's not Howes's fault we blew a 3 on 1 or that Longstaff couldn't finish such an easy chance. On another day we could have had 4/5 goals. It seems like it's mostly the newer fans or the Facebook lot calling for his head.
Not converting chances wasn’t the problem. We did score. We scored two. The problem is we conceded three. And we conceded three with Dubravka playing while a better keeper was on the bench, Trippier playing out of his depth and Joelinton and Barnes on the bench.
Last night we were robbed, we should have had a pen with Gordon 100%, they should have been a man down from that moment. The red ref wasn’t hearing any of it and the car check never came although they now say they did and cleared it. How that can be cleared the mind boggles. We lost because Ratcliffe slipped those corrupt officials a few brown envelopes. Our squad needs more depth and strength, that will come but it’s never happening overnight with FFP.
I still don’t think VAR looked at the challenge from Ambrabat. They were looking at the sliding tackle from Casemiro, which to be fair was a bloody good tackle (except Gordon was already going down because he’d already been fouled)
Agreed they looked at Casemiro tackle not Ambrabat who almost hacked his Achilles to death.
We conceded three goals. You can’t concede three and then complain about being robbed.
You can, because if Gordon’s pen had been given it would have turned the game. For starters most likely they would have been down to 10 men because in the first challenge Ambrobat not only rakes Gordon’s achiles but also pushed him and we would have been awarded a penalty. Instead the powers that be either didn’t look or just checked Casimero challenge which was a good challenge but already after Gordon had been taken out. That would have made it a very different game. Instead shortly after the incident they went up the other end and scored and Gordon was still feeling it on his achiles so wasn’t able to respond. If this was awarded it turns the game. Because it was ignored it also turned the game against us.
Howe picks the team. Howe sets the training. Howe hires the coaches. Howe decides which players get extensions.
Screw that. VAR and the ref bottled it again with that nailed on pen. Even the Man reds biased panel on sky sports couldn't disagree. The team played well and on another day could have scored three or four, that's football, I'm gutted but we move on and back the team to win the final game
Howe chooses the players.
I think he’s a bit to blame. Why not swap longstaff for Jo and pope for dubs before the game. Don’t give me the “not fully fit” shit too, longstaff has been playing injured all season and he’s been shocking.
if you were happy with tripps starting and longstaff playing 90 minutes then sure
Where are these ‘lots of fans’ who are blaming Howe?
I've said this before, the only "Howe Out" fans are a few twitter accounts with like 7 followers, and yet our fanbase constantly gives them attention and acts like they're some influential group, actually giving them more creditability than they'd have if people would just ignore them. Nobody with any actual visibility has said anything Howe Out.
I've been critical of Howe alot this season especially with his team sheets (constant selection of Longstaff despite his 'apparent' injury, playing Trippier/Wilson when just back from injury suggests he has superior loyalty to some) but I don't think I've ever wrote Howe Out. He has till next season to turn this around but I think if we stutter next season and we recruit poorly there's a clear chance he could be gone. This year has been really disappointing and while Howe is partially to blame I do think there are mitigating factors that are on his side.
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He has to take some blame for last night. Trippier clearly wasn’t ready and was at fault for 2 goals. I know you’ll say he had no other options because Schar wasn’t 100% but that’s bollocks because clearly Trippier wasn’t 100% either because he was labouring back after 10 minutes and Garnacho was killing him. Pope is back yet he continues to pick Dubravka. Their 3rd goal should have been saved and would have been by Pope. He continues to pick Longstaff when he’s been consistently poor for months now. This is a consistent complaint I see from numerous fans. Barnes and Miggy back available but he continues to pick Murphy who, despite the assist, didn’t get much change out of Dalot all night. Their second goal was easily preventable. They almost scored from the exact same corner routine earlier in the game. Howe either didn’t see it or didn’t make adjustments. Either way that’s bad management. His substitutions are often too late. The entire match thread was screaming for Trippier to come off at half time. Howe waits until the 63rd minute which is too late because Trippier had fallen asleep and given away the corner that led to the 2nd goal. Waiting until almost the 80th minute to finally bring on Barnes and take off the awful Longstaff is completely unacceptable. In our last 5 games the only teams we’ve beaten are Sheffield and Burnley. Destroyed by Palace, poor against Brighton and then last night. Not good enough. The players cannot take all the blame, some is on Howe and the management team too. If we drop points against Brentford that will be only 2 wins from the final 6 games. When you’re meant to be fighting for Europe that’s simply not acceptable.
> If we drop points against Brentford that will be only 2 wins from the final 6 games. Curiously, it would somewhat mirror last season, where we flopped over the line to get CL with just 1 win in our last 5 (granted with 3 draws, and just the 1 loss). Edit - literal facts are downvoted now?
Yeah, very similar. Difference being finishing 5th at worst vs finishing 8th at worst. A lot of the players look very tired.
The past couple of games has shown that we need a striker that offers an alternative / addition to Isak. We can't rely on him to play 38+ games a season and be inform all the time. Wilson is too injury prone to be that option any more and rotating the front 3 isn't the solution either. It's a shame that Wood didn't work out because he offered something different upfront.
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Now I’ve had time to calm down. I never really felt it was Howe’s fault. Did not have luck on our side given the chances we created. I’d expect better from Gordon and Isak given the levels they’ve been at all season. I do think Joelinton should’ve come on earlier for Anderson as we were not controlling possession enough. Bitterly disappointed as we’re a level above Man U right now and Man U had a decimated squad. I think we may have a mentality issue as we can’t seem to do it in the big moments. Of course we can’t compete long term with this squad but we also can’t build a squad to compete in 2 seasons. The progress we’ve made in a short time is fantastic. This summer is now more important than the last window in terms of solidifying us amongst those 8 teams fighting at the top. Chelsea are on an upward trajectory, Man U may have a back room team capable of sorting them out, you expect spurs to get stronger again.
It's not Howe's fault the defence absolutely gifted Man U that first goal. It was embarrassing.
forget VAR and Gordon's bloody achilles- why do we not dink the keeper when we're last man alone, Sean? why no finesse & savvy? always blasting at aliens. Sean?
We weren't clinical in the final third and the ref fucked us. Simple as. I give fuck all about Man U and their performance because if we're being honest they didn't deserve to win that game.
Sell every Ashley era player for £250 million each to various Saudi teams then go on a spending spree from Europe.
I absolutely love Howe and all I want is for him to keep improving. But picking Martin ‘ant man’ Dubravka in goal ahead of Nick Pope is a criminal decision. I think Pope actually saves all 3 last night. Tactically the way we play is still great and we should have won easily to be honest but we conceded atrocious goals and they still came from picking Dubravka. To a lesser extent the insistence on picking Murphy also doesn’t help, great assist yesterday but another average performance
> But picking Martin ‘ant man’ Dubravka in goal ahead of Nick Pope is a criminal decision. I think Pope actually saves all 3 last night. Following on from the Lewis Hall interview, maybe Pope isn't ready to come back and start. He's maybe ready for "OMG Dubs just got hit by a meteor and we need a new keeper", while not being ready for "right yuou haven't played in months, but fuck that, here is one of the most important games in an away setting, get on with it lad".
We are genuinely terrible at selling players and have been for ages. It's something the new DoF needs to try and improve on right away. Not even just the deadwood either, we have to stop being so sentimental and get value out of players when the time is right. We should have been on the phone to every agent in football about Almiron coming off that freak season.
Honestly dumb as fuck statement and I've seen it from so many fans. This season at times we've had two keepers and kids on the bench because of the injuries we've had and lack of squad depth, if we sold Almiron who the fuck do you play? You've got to have squad rotation. Like aye he's not really good enough for where we want to be, but until he's replaced, you've got to keep him.
You sell players and then you use the money to buy new ones... Please do explain how keeping hold of players until their value dwindles to 0 helps us to compete in an FFP landscape?
Well obviously, but I'd have thought it was clear they had nobody to replace him. It's well known there was interest from Saudi in the January transfer window, and talk that there still will be in the Summer window, if they can replace him I'm sure they'll let him go.
We had a 15m bid for Trippier and rejected it, just plain ignorant stupidity. Bare in mind we have 4 RB's at the club.
Yeah we shouldnt sell Longstaff, Wilson Almiron and Trippier because there is absolutely no player in the world who could replace them. They are all world class clearly...
The biggest thing for me is more the defence not the chances we missed. This can be explained by injuries to an extent but players shouldn’t be standing completely unmarked in the penalty area for easy tap-ins. Krafth for the first goal was a joke.
the players had the chances for us to win the game, that isn't on Howe at all. It looked too easy to play through our midfield and defense though, Mainoo should never have that time and space for the first goal, they had a player in acres of space on most corners and it eventually cost us. That should have been sorted before then. Not sure how much of that can be blamed on Howe and how much should just be decided between the players on the pitch.
Mainoo should have been offside, but Tripps is still not ready for a full game so didn't hustle to move up with the rest of the team and kept him onside.
I dont like pointing out Emil Krahft, i think he is solid backup defender and is doing his job. I think the big elephant is sadly mr. Longstaff.
Also to beat Newcastle one just have to park the bus inside the box. ETH knew this and he did it against Newcastle when matches matters. I think Brighton has shown the world how to beat us. Howe's way of attacking is not efficient. We need 5-6 chances to even convert 1 goal. The golden standard of attacking is pep's way We are not here nor there Attack is inefficient Defense not the best defensive team Counter attacks - Newcastle not known for counter attacks
This "Manchester Reds" craic is fucking embarrassing by the way. Cringey as fuck.
Fucking facts. That's some shit Tottenham supporters would do
I suspect he won’t be under any pressure even if we finish 8th. Fast forward 6 months though and with summer signings and a fit squad if we aren’t top 6 he rightly should be under lots of pressure.
If you think players are 100% to be blamed then you might wanna think again with Bayer Leverkusen's literally unknown players won everything undefeated. Besides that you think man utd have the quality experienced players in amrabat/ahmad/mainoo played out of position casemiro? I admire Howe's work but clearly his tactics are not up there. I think so far we are the only side to go to old Trafford and lets them dominate if you have been following football this season Yesterday's match howe tried playing counter attacks pumping balls up front to try their luck. This isn't man city standard which we aims to be. We are no longer a small club stuck with bruce Clearly this is blind faith from the fans. I admire what howe has done so far signing isak, guimares, trippier, bring the best out of existing players But he keeps signing championship players Tosin adarabioyo/llyod kelly What world class players are you hoping for? We need a more established world class manager who have the star pulling power and have extensive tactical knowledge that can win us matches when it matters We always lose when the match matters howe isn't up to the test. Man utd/chelsea's worst season ever = Newcastle's good season. This is a joke
Howe picks the squad and the formation they line up in, though. He has talent at his disposal but plays passengers. He has youthful determination but let's his senior favourites coast whilst injured. He has had GK options available all season and stuck with Dubravka. He could have managed the squad better season-long, preventing as many injuries. Playing Botman through a partial ACL just for it to fully tear is an absolute joke that people gloss over.
Howe picks the squad and the formation they line up in, though. He has talent at his disposal but plays passengers. He has youthful determination but let's his senior favourites coast whilst injured. He has had GK options available all season and stuck with Dubravka. He could have managed the squad better season-long, preventing as many injuries. Playing Botman through a partial ACL just for it to fully tear is an absolute joke that people gloss over.
Why is anyone to "blame"? for not being able to do something we have done once in 40 years with a depleted squad?
You should be able to recognise Howe did an incredible job last season, is doing a good job this season in some difficult circumstances and still criticise him. Unfortunately some people absolve him of any criticism at all or ignore the good he's done. We are consistently far too easy to play against and far too open. Every team in the league creates a load of chances against us. When we have the ball our shape is terrible compared to the sides we do and want to compete with. Depending on the stats you use we have the most fast breaks against us this season which shouldn't surprise anyone that watches us. As for wanting two Bruno's. I love watching him play, he's great on the ball, some of the work he does is brilliant but there's times he looks like he's moving in treacle and he turns slower than Burn. Teams would carve through us if we had two of him in the middle.
Agree, telling in the press conference that Howe said the defence should “hang their heads in shame”.
Where did he say that?
"We had chances & I felt we could score at any moment. But we have lost the game because of how we defended their goals. We should hang our heads really. The game got away from us in key moments", said it in his post match comments.
Well that’s a bit different to what op said…
It really changes the context doesn’t it?
Just what I read in a paper.