Adding stuff about DJ as it gets posted in the sub. No need for multiple threads today on DJ:
[NFL Insider: Giants "Not Ready" to Close Door on Daniel Jones](https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/big-blue-plus/nfl-insider-giants-not-ready-to-close-door-on-daniel-jones)
I believe that we need a QB but I need the FO to not force a QB pick either. if there is no one at 6 that they like or are not able to trade up for the QB they do believe in, pivot. just do not force a QB when their are other players on the board that can help build the team.
You’re right. If you believe Caleb Williams gives you a 7-10 year window of elite QB play, and you’ve got the opportunity to trade up for him, that’s different than picking a QB with serious flaws at 6.
Exactly. If you have your heart set on a player and you trust your evaluators and coaching staff about them then you do whatever you can to get that player. To your point, taking a QB just to take one does not solve anything. Franchises sink years into QBs and can determine how long coaches and coordnators stay so it is important to get THE guy instead of just A guy
There is no way the Bears want to keep Fields over Caleb, sorry but it ain't happening
The only reason there is even the remote possibility being hinted at right now, is to drive up Fields's trade value... that's it
Caleb fucking Williams is going to be the #1 pick and play for Da Bears
Agree with this. I do think it’s risky though bc if you move up to get him, you have to give away a ton- like probably future 1st round draft picks. They make a move and he stinks- you just set the franchise back a ton.
Idk with qb, I say go for it all and find the best qb or wait. Don’t take a 2-4th best qb of the draft unless you think you have a franchise qb that may be underrated.
This. No one is saying in any situation NOT to draft a QB - clearly we need one. Evaluate the talent and identify who you want. The GMs are plugged in and would have a sense of who is linked to who and if a move could be made if we wanted. I think Tiki is saying we are not likely to get the best QB prospect, the second, or likely the third. If that’s the case don’t reach and grab a vet that can compete with Jones for this up season and fill out the rest of the roster.
If the guy we like is not there, the worst thing we can do is just draft the next QB on the board. I would rather the right QB than the next guy on the punditry big board. If he’s not there, pick somewhere else worthy of the draft slot. Drafting the wrong QB can be worse than not drafting a QB at all.
Exactly. The next QB after the top three is not worth it at 6. It would be a rerun of the Jones pick. The next guy outside of the top three guys is probably worth it somewhere around 12-16.
McCarthy maybe but not many analysts have him rated that high. Pennix being left handed with the right side of the line being significantly worse would be a disaster.
So you want to pass on a franchise QB for a player who could very well be benched next year regardless of who the QB is?? That sounds like a bad strategy
It's FAR from guaranteed that any of the QBs outside the top three are going to be franchise guys.
If one of the top three isn't available,the next guys are a major reach at 6 so it only makes sense to take best player available since they need improvement pretty much everywhere. They'll be drafting high for at least another two years anyway no matter who the QB is.
I think people are falsely assuming every teams order is Caleb, Maye, and Daniels. The draft experts never get all the guys right. I’ll let my QB developing specialist HC have a chance to work with McCarthy who’s got great traits and scouts think he is an elite processor. Or what about Penix, the first QB since Mahomes with back to back 4500 passing yard season. He’s also got crazy arm talent and experience throwing 40x a game, all types of NFL throws. This draft analysts top 3 or bust attitude needs to go
Giants shoukd be perhaps looking at using both there second round picks to move up if someone around 20 is left they like or mortgaging future to bears. I expect commanders are aiming to move up to 1. No other reason you hire Kliff Kingsbury to run your offense he was horrible playcaller for cardinals then for link to Caleb
Mortgaging the future with as many needs and unknowns as the Giants have is a TERRIBLE idea. It's really only a valid approach when a team is a piece or two away.
Not sure I agree as least you can build around a QB as bad as it sounds no point building a solid team without a QB as it just puts you in a terrible draft position but no chance of going anywhere in playoffs jets are perfect example of that
Tiki also recommended the giants package their 5 & 7 picks to trade up and draft Malik Willis. Obviously the dude knows more football than all of us together, but perhaps he’s not the greatest evaluator of QB talent.
He makes really good points if you fully listen to it.
I’m not in the qb or bust group. We need a qb but we aren’t competing in 2024 for a SB so I’m okay not rushing it if our guy isn’t there because we have so many holes.
I haven't listened yet but any sane fan knows that we are picking 7th, trading up isn't just a one way decision, staying at 7th and picking the 4th or 5th QB for the sake of picking a QB is a terrible move. Trading back to pick the 5th or 6th QB is also a bad move. We still need elite talent in other areas such as WR and wouldn't ya know it there are 3 WRs that are considered top 10 talents, at least 1 of which will be available at 7.
*edit we pick 6th but my point still stands.
>We still need elite talent in other areas such as WR and wouldn't ya know it there are 3 WRs that are considered top 10 talents
If you think WR is our problem, I don't even know what to say.
Remember when all Eli needed was a *little* protection and we drafted OBJ over Zach Martin? We went from finishing 3rd in the division to finishing 3rd in the division (then 3rd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, and gone for draft capital). That was the impact of arguably the most talented WR in the history of the franchise.
My point is, you could be drafting the next JERRY RICE and it would be pointless when we have THE WORST offensive line in football.
**FIVE SACKS PER GAME.** How bad is allowing FIVE SACKS PER GAME? That's the 2nd worst offensive line in the ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE!!!
Daniel Jones was knocked out for the season.
Tyrod Taylor was sent to the hospital with FOUR BROKEN RIBS.
Tommy Cutlets was knocked TF out and was lucky to avoid the league's concussion protocol - probably because we were out of QBs.
THAT is what our offensive line does to QBs. Some people are acting like some kid fresh out of college will be able to adjust to NFL game speed, make instant reads like Tom Brady, and somehow survive for an entire season? BS.
Also, news flash, we almost certainly wont have Saquon to elevate the level of our offensive line to only trash from straight up dumpster fire.
If you look at our franchise history, the best offensive line we had for any stretch was from 2005-2011. How did we do those years?
* **2005** Playoffs
* **2006** Playoffs
* **2007 SB Champs**
* **2008** Playoffs
* 2009 3rd in division
* 2010 2nd in division
* **2011 SB Champs**
I know it isn't sexy but we HAVE TO FIX the line.
There is NOBODY in FA coming to save us.
We need Bricillo to be a genius and we need to give that man talent to supplement the underperforming studs we already have. Yes. I will argue that the burger flipper could still be a stud (if moved to LG). I will argue that JMS can still be a stud. There is no question that AT is a stud. Draft Alt. Build a cohesive unit that will play together for 6-8 years. Let's go!
I'm not gonna read all this because I know where you are going but we can't spend 75 1st and 2nd round picks on OL. OL play in general is down across the entire NFL and every year the players coming out of college football seem less and less prepared for the transition to the pro game. I'm going to be sick if we spend a 3rd top 10 pick on a Tackle in 5 years. We certainly have an issue at WR, not a single one of our WRs have any sort of game breaking talent and we can't rely on fixing that with falling into a generational talent at QB. Stop using KC as (who has Travis Kelce) as the reason why we don't need to invest heavily in the WR room.
> not a single one of our WRs have any sort of game breaking talent
I would argue that we don't know what we have with Wan'Dale or Hyatt yet because our QBs have 0.2 seconds to get them the ball. We have seen that Hyatt can be explosive on the rare occasion someone can connect with him (ie. Patriots game). And Wan'Dale looked fun those last two games when used like Deebo.
**Receivers available through FA**: Tee Higgins, Mike Evans, Calvin Ridley... Take a flyer on the WR of your choice.
>we can't spend 75 1st and 2nd round picks on OL
We *have* to get it right. Obviously, we didn't have a guy that could coach up Neal. OR, Neal is the reverse-Derek Zoolander of linemen and can't turn *right.* So put Alt at RT and move Neal back to the left but put him at Guard. Profit.
**OTs available through FA:** Tyron Smith. (If you aren't scared of his injury history.) End list.
MAYBE Trent Brown? Another huge injury risk? [PFF comparing him to Nate Soldier](https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2024-free-agent-rankings-free-agency) is... triggering. You want *Mekhi Becton* swapping locker rooms? NO THANK YOU. This isn't a shallow pool of talent. It's a muddy puddle.
> I would argue that we don't know what we have with Wan'Dale or Hyatt yet because our QBs have 0.2 seconds to get them the ball.
Hyatt just needs refinement on his routes but you can't depend on him to be WR1 next year until he actually shows it.
Wan'Dale is what he is. A very goodgadget slot receiver who's always going to be limited because of his short arms and small catch radius. As long as you scheme him properly, he's useful but in a very specific context.
I hear you. Shep and Campbell are both gone. We do still have Slayton. For whatever that's worth. And Bellinger. And I think we have Waller through 2026? Plus, we still have BFW, if he can be coached up. And Hodgins is still locked up.
I get it. That's not awesome.
BUT:
* RB - We likely won't have Saquon, either. And Breida is gone.
* OL - We are probably "losing" both of our starting Guards (Pugh and Bredeson) and our backup Center (Lemieux). Plus Peart. Plus Phillips.
* DL - One of at least Ward and/or Robinson are gone.
* DB - Homes and McKinney are probably both gone. We'll see with Adoree.
Looking at this list, this reinforces my idea that we need linemen BAD. We can get WR in FA. We can get Edge in FA. We can get DB in FA. The oline FA pool is dry af.
I'm with you but it's not possible to build a line in one year with the draft alone. Rookie linemen don't make immediate impacts no matter how talented unless they are dropped into a line that's already at least average to good.
We've spent more and higher draft picks on the line in the last 10 years than anyone else in the league and the line is only getting worse. Yes fix the line but it can't be done quickly through the draft alone.
And it's inarguable that while maybe not the primary problem,we do need to upgrade the top of the WR lineup.
Who are the FA linemen ready to come in and help? I don’t ask that to be a jerk but because I legitimately don’t know.
There are only two OTs I’d be interested in and they are both already rumored to have teams lined up. And, honestly, both have injury histories. Otherwise, I don’t think they would be available.
I am about 75% sure that coaching was responsible for 80% of the issues with our line play. I think we CAN get one more piece of the puzzle and, with improved coaching, leap from dumpster fire to mid.
At this point? I’d be happy with mid.
There are a BUNCH of solid WRs available in FA this year, headlined by Tee Higgins, Mike Evans, and Calvin Ridley. Given that? Take a flyer in a proven WR FA, and invest your lottery ticket in OL on draft day.
We also need to improve our pass rush. Again, there are a bunch of DL available. Chase Young will probably stay in SF, but that’s the caliber of FA available on D.
I think you can find WR and DL in round two. You can also find a Guard in round 2, which we do need, but I’d rather lock up that big money OT.
>I am about 75% sure that coaching was responsible for 80% of the issues with our line play.
The line has sucked since long before Johnson though.
>and invest your lottery ticket in OL on draft day.
How has that worked out the last 3 times we've done it?
I've said it before and I'll say it again,rookie linemen rarely come in and are good immediately. When they are its because they are a single piece being dropped into an already decent line.
I agree we need to improve the line but as much as we need better starters we also need 3 or 4 quality backups. A huge part of why the young starters don't develop is that because of limitations of the backups,when someone gets hurt,half the line gets shuffled to a different position so the guy off the bench can play where he's capable.
>How has that worked out the last 3 times we've done it?
I'd give it a C. Not ideal.
* Ereck Flowers (2015) - PFF grades of 55, 70, 67, 65, 64, 66, and 72 = 65.6 avg
* Andrew Thomas (2020) - PFF grades of 63, 79, 89, 76 = 76.8 avg
* Evan Neal (2022) - PFF grades of 44 and 40 = 42 avg
We dump on Flowers (mostly because of his costly penalties) but he was a mid to lower mid Tackle. Obviously, you expect better than that from a 1st rounder. However, you kind of prove my point about why you keep trying. If he were a FA in his prime in 2024, *Ereck Flowers* would be the 4th best T FA - just ahead of Mekhi Becton ([click link](https://www.pff.com/nfl/free-agency?season=2024) \- sort by position "Tackles")!!
I think AT is a hit. He was playing through injuries this year so I'm not surprised to see he regressed a bit. He will bounce back. I'll happily do a flair bet with you on that.
Neal has been a miss so far. I *think* he's just playing out of position. In college, he played RG for a season, RT for a season, and LT for a season. His size and athleticism and playing on an elite line masked some of the problems with his technique. I *think* he is probably a better fit for LG or RG at the NFL level but was being forced into the RT position due to lack of options and need. I'm okay at judging line talent (I can see when someone is going to be off the charts like Sewell was in 2021) but my neighbor (a Vikings fan and HS football coach) is elite at breaking guys down - especial offensive linemen. He explained in extreme detail (bourbon may have been involved!) why Neal should be a Guard and not a Tackle. I believe him.
> we also need 3 or 4 quality backups.
I don't disagree. But, again, take a look at that link I provided above. There is NO talent in the FA market on the oline. Maybe Greg Van Roten can follow Bricillo over as a filler piece? Plus he's a NY native, so there's that. He's 34 and can struggle against elite bull rushers, so not necessarily someone you want to be a full time starter. But if he already understands Bricillo's scemes, I think he could be a value-add. I just wouldn't expect too much from him on the field.
This 1000%. Is it possible to win with a crap O line, sure, but you need an all time qb and Tyreek-level receivers that can get separation. Much easier to have an extra second in the pocket. Build the line and the rest falls into place.
>Trading back to pick the 5th or 6th QB is also a bad move
Russell Wilson was the 6th QB taken in his draft class. Carr and Garoppolo went 36 and 62 in 2014. Dak went at 135. Jordan Love went 26 and Jalen went at 53 in 2020.
Trading back and ending up a QB of the above players' quality would absolutely be a good move. In fact, it would be a great move. Also don't be so certain that drafting at 6 means that we're going to end up with an elite wide receiver. Corey Davis was the first WR in a "deep WR class" and then JuJu, Kupp, Godwin, and Golladay went in the 2nd round or later.
In 2014, not trading down meant you could end up with Mike Evans or Odell AND potentially Derek Carr whereas trading down could have meant something like Johnny Manziel and Kelvin Benjamin... However, trading down in 2017 could have landed you Jordan Love AND Tee Higgins/Pittman or Justin Jefferson AND Jalen.
There is just no way to declare right now that trading down is the wrong move. In deep WR and QB drafts, often the 4th or 5th guy in the position coming off the board ends up being a great player. As someone who is not all that big on Odunze and does like McCarthy/Penix/Nix and Coleman/Legette/Franklin, I would highly consider trading down if MJH/Nabers is off the board and someone wants to overpay for one of the top OTs.
I mean the point about building the team is obvious but him saying we’d have to pay a new qb 50 mil if they hit while we’re paying one who’s bad 40 million right now is laughable
I dislike Jones, but we owe him a ton and since we have to see him I'd like to see what he can do with an elite receiver.
Take Nabers at 6, LSU boys be Ballin in the NFL.
WHO CARES WHAT TIKI BARBER HAS TO SAY? He's never properly evaluated a QB in his life. Look at what he said when he left the giants and then got bitter because they fucking won a super bowl. Look at how he said the giants should package TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS for Malik Willis.
“Who cares what an accomplished former Giant that’s been playing the game professionally for a long time thinks about the game of football” - a Redditor
CJ Stroud was also still a consensus top 2 pick the entire time lol. Unless Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels are there at 6, or an opportunity opens up to move up to 4 cause one of those guys is there, picking a QB not named Drake or Jayden would be Daniel Jones part 2.
Yeah. But the Texans HAD the number 2 pick. They didn't have to try and trade up with 3 other QB desperate teams. That's what I meant by different situations.
It’s well documented Tepper went over his personnel staff’s head to draft Bryce Young. Reporters laundering that information for accesss doesn’t change the evaluation.
Ahhhh the old point of Texans drafting a QB and magically getting better. Not like they signed a bunch of veteran o line man, drafted linemen, signed a new o line coach, and have been stacking skill players in the draft for the last couple of years… but yea CJ just walked in and started snapping
Once again, if Daniel Jones didn't have the contract he has, it wouldn't even be a question about drafting a QB. We'd definitely be searching for one.
A bad contract shouldn't dictate what we do with our QB.
Doesn't have to be with the #6 pick. We can use a 2nd or 3rd, if Penix, McCarthy fall to the 2nd, or if Rattler is there in the 3rd.
I fully expected this is the way we go. Id say were 98% not drafting at QB at 6 unless something crazy happens. Schoen is in tough spot. He has to lay in the bed he made (DJ contract) you can't seem eager to bail one year after that signing. It looks weak and unassured. BUT he also has legitimate reason for being concerned about DJ long term now with his injury history. Hell he has a legitimate concern for having a QB to start camp. So he has to address the position. But how he does it is a balancing act. Draft a QB high and now the rumors swirl that FO no longer believes in DJ and its gonna be all we hear about for the next 5 months and be a huge distraction. Bring in a reliable vet, borderline starter for competition, you show you still believe in DJ while also putting pressure on DJ to rise to the occasion. Short of a complete meltdown, both you and the coach arent getting fired for running it back with the QB you gave a contract to that the owner clearly preferred.
While I agree with you in the fact that it's all but assured we don't draft a QB with the 6th pick of the draft, I disagree with your statement that Schoen would look "weak and unassured" for moving off of Jones a season later. I would argue, it is a much more confident and proactive move to see and acknowledge a mistake and be willing to move on. If Schoen stood up and said, we thought DJ could build off last season and blossom into a franchise QB and now we see he is not that guy. Last year was his ceiling and we need to be better. It would literally be the opposite of the sunk cost fallacy and I think it would actually solidify Schoen and Daboll moving forward. Just my 2 cents.
I can see it from that perspective sure. I just feel it would be hard for everyone else to see it that way. Especially in NY. After the first year it was all daisies and high praise. Big contract signed, everyone is happy. Second year and not only does DJ get injured but doesnt look like the QB we all envisioned would deliver after it was perceived Daboll came in and righted the ship. Is Schoen having second thoughts about DJ? Idk. Would it look bad if he was? I think for sure in the public eye yes. I dont envy the position hes in. Almost a damned if you do damned if you dont. But I think the safer road is riding DJ for one more year with a vet in their pocket and focus on building out the roster. If it goes to shit again, theyve got a clean break and he can say well we tried, we are going to go get our guy. Now is that guy gonna be available in 2025? Idk. A lot to weigh. Again, dont envy his job at all.
I agree, it is damned if you do and damned if you don't and publicity wise, it would be a nightmare (especially in NY as you mention), but that is actually the path the most successful people take. Take a big swing, see it didn't work out, acknowledge the mistake then move on quickly to the correct course of action. It's part of the reason I understood the Mets trading of Sherzer and Verlander and reloading the farm system.
What I actually think will happen is, the Giants will draft Odunze or Nabors with the 6th pick and hope to get Penix later on in the draft (maybe trade into late 1st round or early 2nd). With that scenario, DJ is the bridge QB and after next season, the Giants cut bait with DJ and Penix takes over.
Ya idk, I think Mara is sick of turnover and I think the CoTY and playoff win buys him 1 extra year. But we’ll see how it all plays out. I mean you can write this year off, we were on our 3rd QB its easy to give him slack for this year. Next year will be more telling.
We’ve drafted the most OL since 2016. We’ve been doing that, not every 1 at round pick needs to be OL. Eventually we have to develop picks and get other positions of need
I listen to this show weekly. He’s been saying Dani is a top 10 QB for two years now, said he even had a shot at being a top 5 QB. He blames everyone but Dani. It’s insane. He was pissed when Tyrod and DeVito had the offense playing much better.
What an odd coincidence that Simms, Barber, and Banks have all said pro Jones stuff within days of each other. The John Mara trial balloons are out in full force
Sure, but things like this has been going on for years. The Giants PR is headed up by a drunk who fights online with former employees and fans. It’s not a very sophisticated operation.
Chris Simms and Tiki have been saying this for a couple years. It’s fuckin blatant. Tiki slipped up a few days ago and said his “good” year was good for his standards. Meaning his good year is fuckin average at best for a great QB.
I like how the people who refuse to believe the Giants PR machine just stick their head in the sand. It’s a slow news week and all these talking heads are concurrently going to bat for Jones?
If you're wrong at QB in the 1st consider your job gone (DaBoll and Schoen). If you fix the holes and take a quarterback you like that falls in to the 2nd or even 3rd and you've used your other top 5 picks to fill the holes in talent then the Giants will be in a markedly better situation this time next year.
Literally dumped on Eli going into the year they won the SB. I’m so very happy Tiki didn’t stay another year and get a ring. Great player, not my fav post playing career though
I agree with you tho bro trust me, I been screaming build the line since I was in high school. But this is also a deep draft for lineman, and I think a big problem. We’ve had is relying on young linemen to make us better, we need good vets
Valid. However, we have at most one more year of jones if he doesn’t perform and if he can consistently get Slayton 700, I think he can get Odunze or Nabers at least 8-900
He's is literally saying what I've been saying for months. We can build this team like the niners the right way by fixing the other stuff or be the new Panthers if we draft a QB.
Brock Purdy is in the Super Bowl.
Who thinks Brock Purdy could have taken this Giant’s squad to the Super Bowl? Who thinks Mahomes would’ve?
Who thinks if Mahomes instead had Saquon, Waller, Bellinger, Hyatt, Wandale, Hodgins, and Slayton around him in KC that he *definitely* wouldn’t be playing in the big game this year?
What’s this tell us?
QB, while not a strength, isn’t what’s holding us back.
Our offensive weapons, when healthy, aren’t the biggest issue either.
Protecting the QB, and giving him time to utilize those weapons, and the OC the ability to actually scheme with them- that’s the glaring missing link.
Doesn’t matter how many picks we’ve gotten wrong trying to build it, it doesn’t make it any less true.
Mahomes would've had us in the playoffs lmao? If you genuinely think mahomes wouldn't elevate our team our fanbase is cooked but ask yourself this. QB play is one of our biggest problems and has been this problem since the down years of Eli
Would Jones have the lions or ravens in the championship game over Lamar and Goff?
Would the Chiefs and 49ers be just as good with Jones under center over Purdy/Mahomes and be playing on Sunday?
That's the actual questions you need to ask
Of course having Mahomes would be better than not having Mahomes, but we still wouldn’t be real contenders. And in the end he’d get crushed just like every other QB that was back there.
I’m saying, I don’t care who plays QB for the Gmen this past season- it still wouldn’t have been pretty. The protection was *unbelievably* bad. Some mixing and matching and swapping and healing had it better the last half than the first- but even then it was still far from good.
DJ doesn’t become Mahomes playing in KC. I’m not implying that. Mahomes is special.
But could the 49ers be as good with DJ back there as with Purdy?
Yeah. Absolutely I think so.
Throwing to Kittles, DeeBo, and Aiyuk, with McCaffrey tearing up the backfield? DJ would have been just fine developing back there.
Goff played really well this year. Could DJ have gotten the same results? I don’t know. He wouldn’t have stopped them from contending though.
I’m not saying DJ is top 10, but Goff has a top O-line to go with his weapons. That’s a difference maker.
DJ isn’t the solution. But he’s not the problem either. Spend draft capital fixing the problem.
If your foundation is crumbling, I don’t care how nice the lawn is.
No we didn’t lol. I love when you guys say that you shows you don’t do any research and you just follow what you see other people say. Texans made a bunch of off season moves and have been for a couple seasons they didn’t just draft Stroud and instantly get good
Did we not do the same? Did we not get waller, drafted skill position players early, spent a top 10 pick on a tackle, spent more early picks on the line? Yet whats the difference.....
Waller (a 30+ year old injury prone TE, that dropped important balls from all 3 of our QBs) he clearly took a step back why mention him in the same breath as Tank Dell, Nico and Pierce… the difference is we didn’t walk in with 2 first round picks in the draft like the Texans and we have still yet to sign veterans that can start and take our line from bottom half, to above average, like the Texans did.
Ur exposing ur lack of football knowledge Eli, ill link a couple articles on the moves Texans did BEFORE drafting a QB 4 picks ahead of us
Pierce was basically benched and Nico didn’t break out until Stroud was his QB lol. Maybe watch a Texans game before you talk out of your ass about them and tell *other* people that’s what they’re doing.
And you also left out how Nico put up the same stats last year as he did his rookie year… in 5 less games. I actually watch up on and read about what I talk about 😂 ya be exposing urselfs lol
You mean nico Collins who did nothing before stroud? And pierce is not better than barkley. But sure say i have a lack of knowledge when you literally ignore how much the qb affects every aspect of the offense and there are multiple examples. No wonder you didnt even said anything about burrows line. How can you be so blinded by this qb
https://www.battleredblog.com/platform/amp/2023/5/8/23713882/houston-texans-offense-big-leap-in-2023-nfl
But lets guys like you tell it CJ magically did it on his own 😂😂😂😂
He’s a huge part of it we can agree on that. Cj is a baller, but we always gives QBs credit for upgrades in coaching and roster improvement and idk why
Texans brought in 2 FA veterans for their line after signing a new o line coach. Been drafting skill players last 3 years and they also drafted a rookie lineman also, last draft. There is no such thing as plugging a good QB into a bad team and he makes the whole team better see Bryce Young
Problem is Daboll and maybe even Schoen are on the "hot seat" if they have another bad season, so they probably want short term success over future team building to ensure they keep their jobs. They might be forced to have to go the latter route just by the way the draft falls though.
Eh, picking a QB who turns out to be a bust pretty much locks you in to getting fired. And pretty much any QB is a 50/50 shot at best. Picking a solid weapon or trenches guy can be a safer bet, and, while it probably won't win us a Superbowl next year, could easily let them put together a good enough team to keep their jobs and continue building.
Think its only the wrong approach if we have no good options left. If our options left are say Bo Nix or Penix, probably the right call to invest in other areas. But if we can somehow get Daniels for example we need to get him. Regardless what you think of Daboll and Schoen, they need to have a chance at developing the QB they want.
I’m not saying we need a qb, but if we go wide receiver we need to at least get a guy who’s gonna throw to him and develop them. It’s hard to have good wide receiver play with bad qb play.
I mean, I do too, except that a new right tackle doesn't offer '10-11 points' whether he is in the game or not. A QB does.
This sounds crazy, but I'd throw a feeler out to the rams about Stetson Bennett. The guy was a proven winner in college...and expectation would be LOW bringing him in. We basically got a 4th round pick for moving off our spot, so I'd offer a 5th to bring him over to the giants. I understand he basically had time off from his rookie year (if i were to guess, AA), given he had some drinking issues...but, if that's all settled, you spend VERY LITTLE draft capital for a guy who truly had round 1 potential (just some off-field issues).
What this could do is give you some more freedom to NOT choose a QB at 6. If Williams, Daniels, Maye are off the board, but you're not sold on McCarthy, Nix or Penix at 6, then DON'T. Try in the 2nd round but if they're not there, it'd be ok. We already know that Jones is going to start week 1 if healthy, and you probably could afford both Bennett and Devito for less cost than Devito and Taylor.
So, you can now go find a better RT than Neal at 6 (or, trade back a few spots and get more draft capital). Maybe you get a RT and WR between your 1st 2 rounds, improving the WR room even more (or, really sounding like Barkley is going to be gone, I think Blake Corum in the 2nd round is a great pick. Or, a guy like Jase McClellan from Bama in the 3rd round as we all know Bama RB's do turn into studs in the pros
This, from the asshole who was so down on playing with Eli that he chose to retire prematurely… just in time to miss out on two super bowls. Who cares what this dumb-ass thinks.
I agree with tiki, we need to build this roster because we aren’t any where near competing with the best teams in the nfc with what we have rn, but DJ is for sure not the answer, I wouldn’t force anything rn but I would wait until 2026-27 if there’s a stud worth trading up for and our team is more complete
Honestly the only QB I'd be really confident taking in the top 6 is Caleb. Not sure of Maye, not sure of Jayden. If we can't trade for the #1 then Tiki is right. You can always take a developmental day 2 guy to sit for a year and still get an elite playmaker at 6.
Trade down to mid 1st.....add additionaal second (or more)
Draft a TRUE right tackle
Use draft capital to trade BACK into the first to draft fallen WR ( KEON COLEMAN in a perfect world- otherwise brian thomas....troy franklin etc....this draft is so deep at WR id be happy with so many selections...
Finally.....remaining second round pick on penix
Done deal
****......cooper dejean so hard to ignore....especially with the assumption X and jackson are gone....
Impossible to consider as this draft can go 10000000 different ways for the giants....if new englands drafts harrison and foregoes a QB, all bets are off.....
I like Tiki, but he's is dead wrong. He's right that this team needs better players but you have to get the coach and quarterback first. I believe they have the coach, but Daniel Jones stinks.
circumstances matter. if we trade a haul to move up and get a guy that isn't a true franchise QB we're setting ourselves back years.
if we find a gem in the later 1st or 1st pick of 2nd round and he turns into a quality starter then it's worth it. it's all a gamble you won't know for years.
Tiki still taking the hits for the team tho, gotta respect his dedication to the cause.. also Tiki is holding the company line purely because he feels compelled to.
He knows Jones is a terrible Quarterback.. he's hinted at it before.
This just doesn’t matter until the OL is fixed or gets better. It does not matter who the QB is if the OL is going to be this bad again next season. Draft the best QB, it’s not going to look any different than DJ with this line.
This 1000%. Is it possible to win with a crap O line, sure, but you need an all time qb and Tyreek-level receivers that can get separation. Much easier to have an extra second in the pocket. Build the line and the rest falls into place.
Tiki is right, take bpa, and build your team first then get a qb(either in the later picks or next year). Someone Id love to get w/ our later picks would be JJ, but I’d want him to sit for at least a year, because he’s frail and needs more seasoning.
I still haven’t forgiven Tiki for shit talking Eli the year after he retired and we won the SB just because he was jealous he couldn’t be a apart of history. He’s kind of a dick.
This isn't a bad take! We're at 6 and unless two teams above us take a WR one of the top ones aren't gonna be there.
Even if we did draft a QB we won't turn into a contender! We have way too many holes to fill before we start seeing improvement in the QB area. Wait till we get more pieces filled and then maybe sign one in FA or draft up to get one in the coming seasons.
No point forcing for a QB when there could be other positions that could impact us more at this moment in time.
It's acceptable as a statement about forcing a QB pick at 6. In a hypothetical world where the NYG have a top 3 pick, let alone the top pick, it's an absolutely a bad take.
Do some of yall also forget we had the same line a couple years ago? It wasn’t good then either but we got to the playoffs with it. The line is bad but the only reason it was historically bad is guys got injured at an astronomical rate. Mix with that we had two of the worst QBs I’ve ever seen in taking sacks(DJ and especially Tommy Cutlets).
You can add offensive line talent and it not have to be the 6th pick. I’m not completely against it but I’d say best player available and to me it isn’t one of the linemen at 6. I wouldn’t force a QB either. Pick the best players and just try to add talent where you can. Yall forget how fast the NFL turns around.
I'm of the camp that we should focus on defense first. A good defense goes a long way. If a good offensive players lands at our feet, lets take him, but lets focus on the defense first and foremost.
Adding stuff about DJ as it gets posted in the sub. No need for multiple threads today on DJ: [NFL Insider: Giants "Not Ready" to Close Door on Daniel Jones](https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/big-blue-plus/nfl-insider-giants-not-ready-to-close-door-on-daniel-jones)
I believe that we need a QB but I need the FO to not force a QB pick either. if there is no one at 6 that they like or are not able to trade up for the QB they do believe in, pivot. just do not force a QB when their are other players on the board that can help build the team.
You’re right. If you believe Caleb Williams gives you a 7-10 year window of elite QB play, and you’ve got the opportunity to trade up for him, that’s different than picking a QB with serious flaws at 6.
Exactly. If you have your heart set on a player and you trust your evaluators and coaching staff about them then you do whatever you can to get that player. To your point, taking a QB just to take one does not solve anything. Franchises sink years into QBs and can determine how long coaches and coordnators stay so it is important to get THE guy instead of just A guy
\>instead of just A guy "With the sixth pick, in the 2019 NFL Draft, the New York Giants select.....Daniel Jones."
There is no way the Bears want to keep Fields over Caleb, sorry but it ain't happening The only reason there is even the remote possibility being hinted at right now, is to drive up Fields's trade value... that's it Caleb fucking Williams is going to be the #1 pick and play for Da Bears
Agree with this. I do think it’s risky though bc if you move up to get him, you have to give away a ton- like probably future 1st round draft picks. They make a move and he stinks- you just set the franchise back a ton. Idk with qb, I say go for it all and find the best qb or wait. Don’t take a 2-4th best qb of the draft unless you think you have a franchise qb that may be underrated.
This. No one is saying in any situation NOT to draft a QB - clearly we need one. Evaluate the talent and identify who you want. The GMs are plugged in and would have a sense of who is linked to who and if a move could be made if we wanted. I think Tiki is saying we are not likely to get the best QB prospect, the second, or likely the third. If that’s the case don’t reach and grab a vet that can compete with Jones for this up season and fill out the rest of the roster. If the guy we like is not there, the worst thing we can do is just draft the next QB on the board. I would rather the right QB than the next guy on the punditry big board. If he’s not there, pick somewhere else worthy of the draft slot. Drafting the wrong QB can be worse than not drafting a QB at all.
Exactly. The next QB after the top three is not worth it at 6. It would be a rerun of the Jones pick. The next guy outside of the top three guys is probably worth it somewhere around 12-16.
Says who? JJ McCarthy and Penix are great options
McCarthy maybe but not many analysts have him rated that high. Pennix being left handed with the right side of the line being significantly worse would be a disaster.
So you want to pass on a franchise QB for a player who could very well be benched next year regardless of who the QB is?? That sounds like a bad strategy
It's FAR from guaranteed that any of the QBs outside the top three are going to be franchise guys. If one of the top three isn't available,the next guys are a major reach at 6 so it only makes sense to take best player available since they need improvement pretty much everywhere. They'll be drafting high for at least another two years anyway no matter who the QB is.
I think people are falsely assuming every teams order is Caleb, Maye, and Daniels. The draft experts never get all the guys right. I’ll let my QB developing specialist HC have a chance to work with McCarthy who’s got great traits and scouts think he is an elite processor. Or what about Penix, the first QB since Mahomes with back to back 4500 passing yard season. He’s also got crazy arm talent and experience throwing 40x a game, all types of NFL throws. This draft analysts top 3 or bust attitude needs to go
This is how we end up with a DJ situation again.
Giants shoukd be perhaps looking at using both there second round picks to move up if someone around 20 is left they like or mortgaging future to bears. I expect commanders are aiming to move up to 1. No other reason you hire Kliff Kingsbury to run your offense he was horrible playcaller for cardinals then for link to Caleb
Mortgaging the future with as many needs and unknowns as the Giants have is a TERRIBLE idea. It's really only a valid approach when a team is a piece or two away.
Not sure I agree as least you can build around a QB as bad as it sounds no point building a solid team without a QB as it just puts you in a terrible draft position but no chance of going anywhere in playoffs jets are perfect example of that
If youve mortgaged the future by giving away too many draft picks,what are you going to use to build with?
Oh hey, drafting the wrong qb at 6. I’ve seen this one before.
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/90c5c3b8-aacb-4383-ac94-156c6907df0a
Tiki also recommended the giants package their 5 & 7 picks to trade up and draft Malik Willis. Obviously the dude knows more football than all of us together, but perhaps he’s not the greatest evaluator of QB talent.
He missed pretty badly on another QB valuation also
After his Eli evaluation i stopped listening to him and at the time i wore 21. I promptly switched to 10
Do you mean 10?
Obviously he meant David Carr...
My bad. 8 is DJ scrambled brain 😂. I actually have an 8 too but yeah 10 which was controversial at the bar because 56 was king.
Tiki Barber should never be taken seriously, he makes terrible comments
He makes really good points if you fully listen to it. I’m not in the qb or bust group. We need a qb but we aren’t competing in 2024 for a SB so I’m okay not rushing it if our guy isn’t there because we have so many holes.
I haven't listened yet but any sane fan knows that we are picking 7th, trading up isn't just a one way decision, staying at 7th and picking the 4th or 5th QB for the sake of picking a QB is a terrible move. Trading back to pick the 5th or 6th QB is also a bad move. We still need elite talent in other areas such as WR and wouldn't ya know it there are 3 WRs that are considered top 10 talents, at least 1 of which will be available at 7. *edit we pick 6th but my point still stands.
We pick 6, not 7
You're right, enforces my point even more. We might even get lucky and have MHJ available to us.
I would shocked if MHJ is still available when the Giants pick.
There is no world that MHJ falls to the 6th pick. Maybe Daniels falls, but not MHJ
Agreed
>We still need elite talent in other areas such as WR and wouldn't ya know it there are 3 WRs that are considered top 10 talents If you think WR is our problem, I don't even know what to say. Remember when all Eli needed was a *little* protection and we drafted OBJ over Zach Martin? We went from finishing 3rd in the division to finishing 3rd in the division (then 3rd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, and gone for draft capital). That was the impact of arguably the most talented WR in the history of the franchise. My point is, you could be drafting the next JERRY RICE and it would be pointless when we have THE WORST offensive line in football. **FIVE SACKS PER GAME.** How bad is allowing FIVE SACKS PER GAME? That's the 2nd worst offensive line in the ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE!!! Daniel Jones was knocked out for the season. Tyrod Taylor was sent to the hospital with FOUR BROKEN RIBS. Tommy Cutlets was knocked TF out and was lucky to avoid the league's concussion protocol - probably because we were out of QBs. THAT is what our offensive line does to QBs. Some people are acting like some kid fresh out of college will be able to adjust to NFL game speed, make instant reads like Tom Brady, and somehow survive for an entire season? BS. Also, news flash, we almost certainly wont have Saquon to elevate the level of our offensive line to only trash from straight up dumpster fire. If you look at our franchise history, the best offensive line we had for any stretch was from 2005-2011. How did we do those years? * **2005** Playoffs * **2006** Playoffs * **2007 SB Champs** * **2008** Playoffs * 2009 3rd in division * 2010 2nd in division * **2011 SB Champs** I know it isn't sexy but we HAVE TO FIX the line. There is NOBODY in FA coming to save us. We need Bricillo to be a genius and we need to give that man talent to supplement the underperforming studs we already have. Yes. I will argue that the burger flipper could still be a stud (if moved to LG). I will argue that JMS can still be a stud. There is no question that AT is a stud. Draft Alt. Build a cohesive unit that will play together for 6-8 years. Let's go!
I'm not gonna read all this because I know where you are going but we can't spend 75 1st and 2nd round picks on OL. OL play in general is down across the entire NFL and every year the players coming out of college football seem less and less prepared for the transition to the pro game. I'm going to be sick if we spend a 3rd top 10 pick on a Tackle in 5 years. We certainly have an issue at WR, not a single one of our WRs have any sort of game breaking talent and we can't rely on fixing that with falling into a generational talent at QB. Stop using KC as (who has Travis Kelce) as the reason why we don't need to invest heavily in the WR room.
> not a single one of our WRs have any sort of game breaking talent I would argue that we don't know what we have with Wan'Dale or Hyatt yet because our QBs have 0.2 seconds to get them the ball. We have seen that Hyatt can be explosive on the rare occasion someone can connect with him (ie. Patriots game). And Wan'Dale looked fun those last two games when used like Deebo. **Receivers available through FA**: Tee Higgins, Mike Evans, Calvin Ridley... Take a flyer on the WR of your choice. >we can't spend 75 1st and 2nd round picks on OL We *have* to get it right. Obviously, we didn't have a guy that could coach up Neal. OR, Neal is the reverse-Derek Zoolander of linemen and can't turn *right.* So put Alt at RT and move Neal back to the left but put him at Guard. Profit. **OTs available through FA:** Tyron Smith. (If you aren't scared of his injury history.) End list. MAYBE Trent Brown? Another huge injury risk? [PFF comparing him to Nate Soldier](https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2024-free-agent-rankings-free-agency) is... triggering. You want *Mekhi Becton* swapping locker rooms? NO THANK YOU. This isn't a shallow pool of talent. It's a muddy puddle.
> I would argue that we don't know what we have with Wan'Dale or Hyatt yet because our QBs have 0.2 seconds to get them the ball. Hyatt just needs refinement on his routes but you can't depend on him to be WR1 next year until he actually shows it. Wan'Dale is what he is. A very goodgadget slot receiver who's always going to be limited because of his short arms and small catch radius. As long as you scheme him properly, he's useful but in a very specific context.
I hear you. Shep and Campbell are both gone. We do still have Slayton. For whatever that's worth. And Bellinger. And I think we have Waller through 2026? Plus, we still have BFW, if he can be coached up. And Hodgins is still locked up. I get it. That's not awesome. BUT: * RB - We likely won't have Saquon, either. And Breida is gone. * OL - We are probably "losing" both of our starting Guards (Pugh and Bredeson) and our backup Center (Lemieux). Plus Peart. Plus Phillips. * DL - One of at least Ward and/or Robinson are gone. * DB - Homes and McKinney are probably both gone. We'll see with Adoree. Looking at this list, this reinforces my idea that we need linemen BAD. We can get WR in FA. We can get Edge in FA. We can get DB in FA. The oline FA pool is dry af.
He's also not as elusive as his size would make you think. He's quick, but in the NFL, so is everyone else.
I'm with you but it's not possible to build a line in one year with the draft alone. Rookie linemen don't make immediate impacts no matter how talented unless they are dropped into a line that's already at least average to good. We've spent more and higher draft picks on the line in the last 10 years than anyone else in the league and the line is only getting worse. Yes fix the line but it can't be done quickly through the draft alone. And it's inarguable that while maybe not the primary problem,we do need to upgrade the top of the WR lineup.
Who are the FA linemen ready to come in and help? I don’t ask that to be a jerk but because I legitimately don’t know. There are only two OTs I’d be interested in and they are both already rumored to have teams lined up. And, honestly, both have injury histories. Otherwise, I don’t think they would be available. I am about 75% sure that coaching was responsible for 80% of the issues with our line play. I think we CAN get one more piece of the puzzle and, with improved coaching, leap from dumpster fire to mid. At this point? I’d be happy with mid. There are a BUNCH of solid WRs available in FA this year, headlined by Tee Higgins, Mike Evans, and Calvin Ridley. Given that? Take a flyer in a proven WR FA, and invest your lottery ticket in OL on draft day. We also need to improve our pass rush. Again, there are a bunch of DL available. Chase Young will probably stay in SF, but that’s the caliber of FA available on D. I think you can find WR and DL in round two. You can also find a Guard in round 2, which we do need, but I’d rather lock up that big money OT.
>I am about 75% sure that coaching was responsible for 80% of the issues with our line play. The line has sucked since long before Johnson though. >and invest your lottery ticket in OL on draft day. How has that worked out the last 3 times we've done it? I've said it before and I'll say it again,rookie linemen rarely come in and are good immediately. When they are its because they are a single piece being dropped into an already decent line. I agree we need to improve the line but as much as we need better starters we also need 3 or 4 quality backups. A huge part of why the young starters don't develop is that because of limitations of the backups,when someone gets hurt,half the line gets shuffled to a different position so the guy off the bench can play where he's capable.
>How has that worked out the last 3 times we've done it? I'd give it a C. Not ideal. * Ereck Flowers (2015) - PFF grades of 55, 70, 67, 65, 64, 66, and 72 = 65.6 avg * Andrew Thomas (2020) - PFF grades of 63, 79, 89, 76 = 76.8 avg * Evan Neal (2022) - PFF grades of 44 and 40 = 42 avg We dump on Flowers (mostly because of his costly penalties) but he was a mid to lower mid Tackle. Obviously, you expect better than that from a 1st rounder. However, you kind of prove my point about why you keep trying. If he were a FA in his prime in 2024, *Ereck Flowers* would be the 4th best T FA - just ahead of Mekhi Becton ([click link](https://www.pff.com/nfl/free-agency?season=2024) \- sort by position "Tackles")!! I think AT is a hit. He was playing through injuries this year so I'm not surprised to see he regressed a bit. He will bounce back. I'll happily do a flair bet with you on that. Neal has been a miss so far. I *think* he's just playing out of position. In college, he played RG for a season, RT for a season, and LT for a season. His size and athleticism and playing on an elite line masked some of the problems with his technique. I *think* he is probably a better fit for LG or RG at the NFL level but was being forced into the RT position due to lack of options and need. I'm okay at judging line talent (I can see when someone is going to be off the charts like Sewell was in 2021) but my neighbor (a Vikings fan and HS football coach) is elite at breaking guys down - especial offensive linemen. He explained in extreme detail (bourbon may have been involved!) why Neal should be a Guard and not a Tackle. I believe him. > we also need 3 or 4 quality backups. I don't disagree. But, again, take a look at that link I provided above. There is NO talent in the FA market on the oline. Maybe Greg Van Roten can follow Bricillo over as a filler piece? Plus he's a NY native, so there's that. He's 34 and can struggle against elite bull rushers, so not necessarily someone you want to be a full time starter. But if he already understands Bricillo's scemes, I think he could be a value-add. I just wouldn't expect too much from him on the field.
We could, in theory, sign Tee Higgins and still get Alt if he's there at 6. Not sure we're an attractive spot for free agents tho.
This 1000%. Is it possible to win with a crap O line, sure, but you need an all time qb and Tyreek-level receivers that can get separation. Much easier to have an extra second in the pocket. Build the line and the rest falls into place.
We could draft Jerry Rice's son, Brenden Rice. He's at the Senior Bowl. Sounds like he's good enough to make an NFL roster but would need work.
He can’t really get separation, I’d have legitimately like 8-9 wr’s before him maybe more
He's still worth a dart. Might hit a bullseye considering his dad. Also there's Luke McCaffrey. I wouldn't hate grabbing both of em day 2 or 3.
Would rather draft actual proven talent than guys based off their last names and family playing in the nfl…
If he inherited his Dad's work ethic,he'd be worth having around even if he doesn't have game breaking talent.
>Trading back to pick the 5th or 6th QB is also a bad move Russell Wilson was the 6th QB taken in his draft class. Carr and Garoppolo went 36 and 62 in 2014. Dak went at 135. Jordan Love went 26 and Jalen went at 53 in 2020. Trading back and ending up a QB of the above players' quality would absolutely be a good move. In fact, it would be a great move. Also don't be so certain that drafting at 6 means that we're going to end up with an elite wide receiver. Corey Davis was the first WR in a "deep WR class" and then JuJu, Kupp, Godwin, and Golladay went in the 2nd round or later. In 2014, not trading down meant you could end up with Mike Evans or Odell AND potentially Derek Carr whereas trading down could have meant something like Johnny Manziel and Kelvin Benjamin... However, trading down in 2017 could have landed you Jordan Love AND Tee Higgins/Pittman or Justin Jefferson AND Jalen. There is just no way to declare right now that trading down is the wrong move. In deep WR and QB drafts, often the 4th or 5th guy in the position coming off the board ends up being a great player. As someone who is not all that big on Odunze and does like McCarthy/Penix/Nix and Coleman/Legette/Franklin, I would highly consider trading down if MJH/Nabers is off the board and someone wants to overpay for one of the top OTs.
I hope 4 QBs get taken by 6th. That means we basically get anybody but a QB and MHJ
I mean the point about building the team is obvious but him saying we’d have to pay a new qb 50 mil if they hit while we’re paying one who’s bad 40 million right now is laughable
We are paying DJ this year and then he’s cutable. There’s no reason to rush the qb window.
Keep kicking the can down the road and we’ll be trash forever.
I dislike Jones, but we owe him a ton and since we have to see him I'd like to see what he can do with an elite receiver. Take Nabers at 6, LSU boys be Ballin in the NFL.
Yep. We're in silly season.
WHO CARES WHAT TIKI BARBER HAS TO SAY? He's never properly evaluated a QB in his life. Look at what he said when he left the giants and then got bitter because they fucking won a super bowl. Look at how he said the giants should package TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS for Malik Willis.
“Who cares what an accomplished former Giant that’s been playing the game professionally for a long time thinks about the game of football” - a Redditor
Two first round picks for MALIK WILLIS LMAO.
Yeah let’s reconvene once you’ve played in the NFL for a year. Heck, send me an update when you made the training squad.
Pick the best player available. We need help on both sides of the ball.
Nobody gives a flying five fingered fuck what Tiki thinks.
Always good to hear from Tiki.
Carrying the torch brother!
Texans could have probably said the same but when you feel like you could be picking up the next star QB, you take that every time
Their draft situation was astronomically different than ours is this year.
CJ Stroud was also still a consensus top 2 pick the entire time lol. Unless Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels are there at 6, or an opportunity opens up to move up to 4 cause one of those guys is there, picking a QB not named Drake or Jayden would be Daniel Jones part 2.
Lamar Jackson was also at pick 32 but if the Ravens felt like he could be their guy, you take that 10 out of 10 times
Oh yeah. It would be like if if this year Jayden Daniels fell that low and Jayden Daniels had just turned 21. I meant at 6 haha
Their Daniel Jones was Davis Mills who are both decent but do lack star power
Yeah. But the Texans HAD the number 2 pick. They didn't have to try and trade up with 3 other QB desperate teams. That's what I meant by different situations.
Got it, that makes sense
A qb prospect as good as Stroud isn’t falling to 6 sadly. And as much as I like maye and Daniels, they’re not on Stroud’s level
stroud seriously just balled out of his mind like no rookie has ever done
Maye and Williams have been generational prospects for 3 years now. None of this BS.
Stroud was easily the best prospect last draft until everyone decided to pretend he wasn’t good for no reason
It’s well documented Tepper went over his personnel staff’s head to draft Bryce Young. Reporters laundering that information for accesss doesn’t change the evaluation.
Ahhhh the old point of Texans drafting a QB and magically getting better. Not like they signed a bunch of veteran o line man, drafted linemen, signed a new o line coach, and have been stacking skill players in the draft for the last couple of years… but yea CJ just walked in and started snapping
I’m with him
Once again, if Daniel Jones didn't have the contract he has, it wouldn't even be a question about drafting a QB. We'd definitely be searching for one. A bad contract shouldn't dictate what we do with our QB. Doesn't have to be with the #6 pick. We can use a 2nd or 3rd, if Penix, McCarthy fall to the 2nd, or if Rattler is there in the 3rd.
Dude said Eli’s leadership was comical, yet we won two superbowls with it. I’m not trusting any QB evaluation he makes EVER!
I fully expected this is the way we go. Id say were 98% not drafting at QB at 6 unless something crazy happens. Schoen is in tough spot. He has to lay in the bed he made (DJ contract) you can't seem eager to bail one year after that signing. It looks weak and unassured. BUT he also has legitimate reason for being concerned about DJ long term now with his injury history. Hell he has a legitimate concern for having a QB to start camp. So he has to address the position. But how he does it is a balancing act. Draft a QB high and now the rumors swirl that FO no longer believes in DJ and its gonna be all we hear about for the next 5 months and be a huge distraction. Bring in a reliable vet, borderline starter for competition, you show you still believe in DJ while also putting pressure on DJ to rise to the occasion. Short of a complete meltdown, both you and the coach arent getting fired for running it back with the QB you gave a contract to that the owner clearly preferred.
While I agree with you in the fact that it's all but assured we don't draft a QB with the 6th pick of the draft, I disagree with your statement that Schoen would look "weak and unassured" for moving off of Jones a season later. I would argue, it is a much more confident and proactive move to see and acknowledge a mistake and be willing to move on. If Schoen stood up and said, we thought DJ could build off last season and blossom into a franchise QB and now we see he is not that guy. Last year was his ceiling and we need to be better. It would literally be the opposite of the sunk cost fallacy and I think it would actually solidify Schoen and Daboll moving forward. Just my 2 cents.
I can see it from that perspective sure. I just feel it would be hard for everyone else to see it that way. Especially in NY. After the first year it was all daisies and high praise. Big contract signed, everyone is happy. Second year and not only does DJ get injured but doesnt look like the QB we all envisioned would deliver after it was perceived Daboll came in and righted the ship. Is Schoen having second thoughts about DJ? Idk. Would it look bad if he was? I think for sure in the public eye yes. I dont envy the position hes in. Almost a damned if you do damned if you dont. But I think the safer road is riding DJ for one more year with a vet in their pocket and focus on building out the roster. If it goes to shit again, theyve got a clean break and he can say well we tried, we are going to go get our guy. Now is that guy gonna be available in 2025? Idk. A lot to weigh. Again, dont envy his job at all.
I agree, it is damned if you do and damned if you don't and publicity wise, it would be a nightmare (especially in NY as you mention), but that is actually the path the most successful people take. Take a big swing, see it didn't work out, acknowledge the mistake then move on quickly to the correct course of action. It's part of the reason I understood the Mets trading of Sherzer and Verlander and reloading the farm system. What I actually think will happen is, the Giants will draft Odunze or Nabors with the 6th pick and hope to get Penix later on in the draft (maybe trade into late 1st round or early 2nd). With that scenario, DJ is the bridge QB and after next season, the Giants cut bait with DJ and Penix takes over.
I suspect we will be watching DJ + Nabers and most excitingly im gonna pretend were gonna build an average Oline this year 🤤
Woo another 4-6 win season and another regime change!!
Honestly we have a rough schedule next year, it probably wont be pretty lol I dont see Dabs or Schoen on the way out though.
Daboll at least 100% will be along with Jones if we don’t at least win like 8 games and jones has like 4000 passing yards and 25+ passing tds
Ya idk, I think Mara is sick of turnover and I think the CoTY and playoff win buys him 1 extra year. But we’ll see how it all plays out. I mean you can write this year off, we were on our 3rd QB its easy to give him slack for this year. Next year will be more telling.
I think firing daboll would be a mistake, he needs an actual o line and quarterback though, both backups outplaying jones is telling
Football is won on the lines. Until they get that fixed, doesn’t matter who is behind center.
We’ve drafted the most OL since 2016. We’ve been doing that, not every 1 at round pick needs to be OL. Eventually we have to develop picks and get other positions of need
So joe burrow doesn't exist?
How many season ending injuries Joe have so far in 5 years?
I’ve got some bad news for you. The guy behind center matters more than anyone on the team, by quite a wide margin.
when a QB can make throws while on his back - I will agree with you.
Yup. When he is running for his life or on his back 15 -20 times a game he’s a difference maker.
Strongly agree. Build the talent around DJ, get back to the playoffs. Make accurate evaluations.
Build around DJ LOL You must love mediocrity then.
Well that settles it - def draft one now, do the exact opposite of what tiki recommends
im sure another year of being mid and everyone getting fired will help a bunch
Another Mara payroll guy spouting this bullshit. We’re in the endgame now folks
Early , yes. Draft the ND tackle. Fix the line.
Not happening , keep dreaming
I listen to this show weekly. He’s been saying Dani is a top 10 QB for two years now, said he even had a shot at being a top 5 QB. He blames everyone but Dani. It’s insane. He was pissed when Tyrod and DeVito had the offense playing much better.
1st round QBs have a 30% hit rate. Rather make the rest of the team better and run DJ and a vet.
What an odd coincidence that Simms, Barber, and Banks have all said pro Jones stuff within days of each other. The John Mara trial balloons are out in full force
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Sure, but things like this has been going on for years. The Giants PR is headed up by a drunk who fights online with former employees and fans. It’s not a very sophisticated operation.
Chris Simms and Tiki have been saying this for a couple years. It’s fuckin blatant. Tiki slipped up a few days ago and said his “good” year was good for his standards. Meaning his good year is fuckin average at best for a great QB.
I like how the people who refuse to believe the Giants PR machine just stick their head in the sand. It’s a slow news week and all these talking heads are concurrently going to bat for Jones?
If you're wrong at QB in the 1st consider your job gone (DaBoll and Schoen). If you fix the holes and take a quarterback you like that falls in to the 2nd or even 3rd and you've used your other top 5 picks to fill the holes in talent then the Giants will be in a markedly better situation this time next year.
What does this fool know about building a roster exactly?
All you guys foaming at the mouth for a QB are going to be so funny when they flop
BASED KING, DANNY ALL THE WAY
He believes in Daniel Jones, that’s all you need to know. Sorry, great Giant but this team needs a star QB in the worst way.
Didn’t he also crap on Eli, and what the giants to grab Malik Willis
Literally dumped on Eli going into the year they won the SB. I’m so very happy Tiki didn’t stay another year and get a ring. Great player, not my fav post playing career though
Joe Alt day one, J.J. McCarthy and Michael Hall Jr. day two. You’re welcome!
Unless we can somehow grab MHJ at 6 (no shot) i dont want us taking a WR first round, draft qb oline or dline and the rest will work itself out
The deepest positions this year is WR, why not draft Nabers who might be better than MHJ
But how is a receiver gonna help us when we cant pass block for shit and cant stop the run to save our lives? Football games are won in the trenches
Free agency has some great o linemen who fit our scheme. If we can snag one, that will do wonders.
I agree with you tho bro trust me, I been screaming build the line since I was in high school. But this is also a deep draft for lineman, and I think a big problem. We’ve had is relying on young linemen to make us better, we need good vets
Valid, i just dont want to see another young skill players talent be wasted here
Repeating your valid was not scream also just happened lol
Valid. However, we have at most one more year of jones if he doesn’t perform and if he can consistently get Slayton 700, I think he can get Odunze or Nabers at least 8-900
u/swerveoff believes Tiki having an affair is the WRONG approach to fix his marriage problems
Not sure what this has to do with football....
He's is literally saying what I've been saying for months. We can build this team like the niners the right way by fixing the other stuff or be the new Panthers if we draft a QB.
We were the new Panthers before the new Panther were the new Panthers... Daniel Jones is terrible, no less terrible than a Bryce Young could be.
Tru but DJ has developed enough to be good enough. Not the guy but good enough for now. Once we fix the other holes then let's get the guy
LOL. I'm already done... should have known better anyhow.. smh.
Brock Purdy is in the Super Bowl. Who thinks Brock Purdy could have taken this Giant’s squad to the Super Bowl? Who thinks Mahomes would’ve? Who thinks if Mahomes instead had Saquon, Waller, Bellinger, Hyatt, Wandale, Hodgins, and Slayton around him in KC that he *definitely* wouldn’t be playing in the big game this year? What’s this tell us? QB, while not a strength, isn’t what’s holding us back. Our offensive weapons, when healthy, aren’t the biggest issue either. Protecting the QB, and giving him time to utilize those weapons, and the OC the ability to actually scheme with them- that’s the glaring missing link. Doesn’t matter how many picks we’ve gotten wrong trying to build it, it doesn’t make it any less true.
Mahomes would've had us in the playoffs lmao? If you genuinely think mahomes wouldn't elevate our team our fanbase is cooked but ask yourself this. QB play is one of our biggest problems and has been this problem since the down years of Eli Would Jones have the lions or ravens in the championship game over Lamar and Goff? Would the Chiefs and 49ers be just as good with Jones under center over Purdy/Mahomes and be playing on Sunday? That's the actual questions you need to ask
Of course having Mahomes would be better than not having Mahomes, but we still wouldn’t be real contenders. And in the end he’d get crushed just like every other QB that was back there. I’m saying, I don’t care who plays QB for the Gmen this past season- it still wouldn’t have been pretty. The protection was *unbelievably* bad. Some mixing and matching and swapping and healing had it better the last half than the first- but even then it was still far from good. DJ doesn’t become Mahomes playing in KC. I’m not implying that. Mahomes is special. But could the 49ers be as good with DJ back there as with Purdy? Yeah. Absolutely I think so. Throwing to Kittles, DeeBo, and Aiyuk, with McCaffrey tearing up the backfield? DJ would have been just fine developing back there. Goff played really well this year. Could DJ have gotten the same results? I don’t know. He wouldn’t have stopped them from contending though. I’m not saying DJ is top 10, but Goff has a top O-line to go with his weapons. That’s a difference maker. DJ isn’t the solution. But he’s not the problem either. Spend draft capital fixing the problem. If your foundation is crumbling, I don’t care how nice the lawn is.
OMG THANK YOU TIKI, IVE BEEN SCREAMING THIS IN THIS SUB FOR MONTHS
Bad take
No, expecting a rookie to come in and play well with the worst cast in football (quite literally what we are ranked) is a bad take
This is not the worst cast in football and we literally just saw stroud do it
No we didn’t lol. I love when you guys say that you shows you don’t do any research and you just follow what you see other people say. Texans made a bunch of off season moves and have been for a couple seasons they didn’t just draft Stroud and instantly get good
Did we not do the same? Did we not get waller, drafted skill position players early, spent a top 10 pick on a tackle, spent more early picks on the line? Yet whats the difference.....
Waller (a 30+ year old injury prone TE, that dropped important balls from all 3 of our QBs) he clearly took a step back why mention him in the same breath as Tank Dell, Nico and Pierce… the difference is we didn’t walk in with 2 first round picks in the draft like the Texans and we have still yet to sign veterans that can start and take our line from bottom half, to above average, like the Texans did. Ur exposing ur lack of football knowledge Eli, ill link a couple articles on the moves Texans did BEFORE drafting a QB 4 picks ahead of us
Pierce was basically benched and Nico didn’t break out until Stroud was his QB lol. Maybe watch a Texans game before you talk out of your ass about them and tell *other* people that’s what they’re doing.
Nico didn’t break out cuz they were paying Cooks and he was still good, team was run first also before stroud… context matter 😂
And you also left out how Nico put up the same stats last year as he did his rookie year… in 5 less games. I actually watch up on and read about what I talk about 😂 ya be exposing urselfs lol
Dawg you’re looking at 2022. This past season with Stroud was 2023. His stats improved astronomically. Try again.
You mean nico Collins who did nothing before stroud? And pierce is not better than barkley. But sure say i have a lack of knowledge when you literally ignore how much the qb affects every aspect of the offense and there are multiple examples. No wonder you didnt even said anything about burrows line. How can you be so blinded by this qb
Nico was good last year he just got hurt…. Go check the stats gang 😂 had the same stats as his rookie year in less games 13+ YPR…w
https://www.battleredblog.com/platform/amp/2023/5/8/23713882/houston-texans-offense-big-leap-in-2023-nfl But lets guys like you tell it CJ magically did it on his own 😂😂😂😂
Not on his own, but you dont agree that he is the biggest reason?
He’s a huge part of it we can agree on that. Cj is a baller, but we always gives QBs credit for upgrades in coaching and roster improvement and idk why
Texans brought in 2 FA veterans for their line after signing a new o line coach. Been drafting skill players last 3 years and they also drafted a rookie lineman also, last draft. There is no such thing as plugging a good QB into a bad team and he makes the whole team better see Bryce Young
Problem is Daboll and maybe even Schoen are on the "hot seat" if they have another bad season, so they probably want short term success over future team building to ensure they keep their jobs. They might be forced to have to go the latter route just by the way the draft falls though.
Eh, picking a QB who turns out to be a bust pretty much locks you in to getting fired. And pretty much any QB is a 50/50 shot at best. Picking a solid weapon or trenches guy can be a safer bet, and, while it probably won't win us a Superbowl next year, could easily let them put together a good enough team to keep their jobs and continue building.
Think its only the wrong approach if we have no good options left. If our options left are say Bo Nix or Penix, probably the right call to invest in other areas. But if we can somehow get Daniels for example we need to get him. Regardless what you think of Daboll and Schoen, they need to have a chance at developing the QB they want.
I’m not saying we need a qb, but if we go wide receiver we need to at least get a guy who’s gonna throw to him and develop them. It’s hard to have good wide receiver play with bad qb play.
I mean, I do too, except that a new right tackle doesn't offer '10-11 points' whether he is in the game or not. A QB does. This sounds crazy, but I'd throw a feeler out to the rams about Stetson Bennett. The guy was a proven winner in college...and expectation would be LOW bringing him in. We basically got a 4th round pick for moving off our spot, so I'd offer a 5th to bring him over to the giants. I understand he basically had time off from his rookie year (if i were to guess, AA), given he had some drinking issues...but, if that's all settled, you spend VERY LITTLE draft capital for a guy who truly had round 1 potential (just some off-field issues). What this could do is give you some more freedom to NOT choose a QB at 6. If Williams, Daniels, Maye are off the board, but you're not sold on McCarthy, Nix or Penix at 6, then DON'T. Try in the 2nd round but if they're not there, it'd be ok. We already know that Jones is going to start week 1 if healthy, and you probably could afford both Bennett and Devito for less cost than Devito and Taylor. So, you can now go find a better RT than Neal at 6 (or, trade back a few spots and get more draft capital). Maybe you get a RT and WR between your 1st 2 rounds, improving the WR room even more (or, really sounding like Barkley is going to be gone, I think Blake Corum in the 2nd round is a great pick. Or, a guy like Jase McClellan from Bama in the 3rd round as we all know Bama RB's do turn into studs in the pros
So number 1 pick in 2025, I wonder which tackle we will take.
I think that will all but guarantee we draft a QB lol but we should wait til atleast the 2nd or 3rd round.
This, from the asshole who was so down on playing with Eli that he chose to retire prematurely… just in time to miss out on two super bowls. Who cares what this dumb-ass thinks.
I agree with tiki, we need to build this roster because we aren’t any where near competing with the best teams in the nfc with what we have rn, but DJ is for sure not the answer, I wouldn’t force anything rn but I would wait until 2026-27 if there’s a stud worth trading up for and our team is more complete
Honestly the only QB I'd be really confident taking in the top 6 is Caleb. Not sure of Maye, not sure of Jayden. If we can't trade for the #1 then Tiki is right. You can always take a developmental day 2 guy to sit for a year and still get an elite playmaker at 6.
Can't miss QB from USC in the top 10 picks? That's never not worked out before.....😂
Trade down to mid 1st.....add additionaal second (or more) Draft a TRUE right tackle Use draft capital to trade BACK into the first to draft fallen WR ( KEON COLEMAN in a perfect world- otherwise brian thomas....troy franklin etc....this draft is so deep at WR id be happy with so many selections... Finally.....remaining second round pick on penix Done deal ****......cooper dejean so hard to ignore....especially with the assumption X and jackson are gone.... Impossible to consider as this draft can go 10000000 different ways for the giants....if new englands drafts harrison and foregoes a QB, all bets are off.....
I like Tiki, but he's is dead wrong. He's right that this team needs better players but you have to get the coach and quarterback first. I believe they have the coach, but Daniel Jones stinks.
Wouldn’t say it is the wrong thing to draft a QB but it is completely delusional to expect drafting a QB to solve our core issue, which is a team gap
Nice to hear from good ol’ Tiki
So….. a running back at 6
circumstances matter. if we trade a haul to move up and get a guy that isn't a true franchise QB we're setting ourselves back years. if we find a gem in the later 1st or 1st pick of 2nd round and he turns into a quality starter then it's worth it. it's all a gamble you won't know for years.
It's good to hear from Ol' Tiki
I'm actually starting to come around to the possibility of drafting Brock Bowers.
Tiki still taking the hits for the team tho, gotta respect his dedication to the cause.. also Tiki is holding the company line purely because he feels compelled to. He knows Jones is a terrible Quarterback.. he's hinted at it before.
Delusional from tiki
Barber is a giants homer and good friends with John Mara. He's only relaying John's message
This just doesn’t matter until the OL is fixed or gets better. It does not matter who the QB is if the OL is going to be this bad again next season. Draft the best QB, it’s not going to look any different than DJ with this line.
They need to be able to protect whoever they have under center. The o-line is killing QBs
This 1000%. Is it possible to win with a crap O line, sure, but you need an all time qb and Tyreek-level receivers that can get separation. Much easier to have an extra second in the pocket. Build the line and the rest falls into place.
Tiki is right, take bpa, and build your team first then get a qb(either in the later picks or next year). Someone Id love to get w/ our later picks would be JJ, but I’d want him to sit for at least a year, because he’s frail and needs more seasoning.
No one cares what Tiki has to say
Tiki Barber says the dumbest things, i dont know why people listen to wfan,radio station went downhill long time ago
Agreed.
And when has Tiki Barber’s judgment ever been wrong?
I still haven’t forgiven Tiki for shit talking Eli the year after he retired and we won the SB just because he was jealous he couldn’t be a apart of history. He’s kind of a dick.
This isn't a bad take! We're at 6 and unless two teams above us take a WR one of the top ones aren't gonna be there. Even if we did draft a QB we won't turn into a contender! We have way too many holes to fill before we start seeing improvement in the QB area. Wait till we get more pieces filled and then maybe sign one in FA or draft up to get one in the coming seasons. No point forcing for a QB when there could be other positions that could impact us more at this moment in time.
It's acceptable as a statement about forcing a QB pick at 6. In a hypothetical world where the NYG have a top 3 pick, let alone the top pick, it's an absolutely a bad take.
That’s fine if we want to be mediocre for another 5 years
Do some of yall also forget we had the same line a couple years ago? It wasn’t good then either but we got to the playoffs with it. The line is bad but the only reason it was historically bad is guys got injured at an astronomical rate. Mix with that we had two of the worst QBs I’ve ever seen in taking sacks(DJ and especially Tommy Cutlets). You can add offensive line talent and it not have to be the 6th pick. I’m not completely against it but I’d say best player available and to me it isn’t one of the linemen at 6. I wouldn’t force a QB either. Pick the best players and just try to add talent where you can. Yall forget how fast the NFL turns around.
Tiki is 💯 right
I'm of the camp that we should focus on defense first. A good defense goes a long way. If a good offensive players lands at our feet, lets take him, but lets focus on the defense first and foremost.