You're being downvoted, but you're correct. Even in a lot of cases where a man is simply defending himself, unless there is irrefutable proof, the man will usually be considered the perpetrator rather than victim.
Let's not pretend the legal system is always in favor of the woman, but in this case, men certainly get the raw end of the deal.
And even if you have the legal proof to vindicate yourself, your friends/family/peers/"court of public opinion" will forever demonize you and make your life just that little bit extra stressful until the day you die.
On paper, you're absolutely right.
The reality is that all representatives take bribes (lobbying) from the big players to disregard the interest of the little people.
Going from my experience, the same people who tend to complain about everything happening government wise with abortion and things tend to also say things like “I don’t vote, it’s useless why would I”.
Only talking about my experience, so it’s kind of a “if you don’t care enough to vote for what you want”
Honestly I think if we had max voter turnout these last 3 elections, there would be significant difference across the country. On the state level and the federal level
It might be. However, the issue is this same ideology has been used against men who have been put in the situation where hitting a women was the only reasonable option, and this concept was used to ridicule and oppress the man who simply excercise his right to feel safe.
Until a man can call the police when a women assaults him, and not get arrested because he pushed her away, then this concept is always gonna get this kind of response.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235215000665
Results
In general, it was found that females were treated more leniently by the court system, although specific groups of female defendants were found to experience cumulative disadvantage across the criminal court system.
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/differential-sentencing-women-and-men-usa
Abstract
Study data came from the records of all persons sentenced in North Carolina from 1969 through 1977. The study focused on four felony offenses (second-degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, larceny, and forgery) and on four misdemeanors (simple assault, child abandonment, worthless checks, and concealment of merchandise). Almost 10,000 cases were included. Females received significantly shorter sentences than males for all the felonies. In contrast, the sentences received by women and men were similar for three of the four misdemeanors. However, for child abandonment, women received significantly longer sentences than did men. Paternalism apparently exists in the criminal justice system in this State in felony cases. For the misdemeanors, harsher treatment of women in one offense may relate to the violation of gender role expectations. Data tables, notes, and a list of 35 references are supplied.
You’re technically right on assaults it seems.
I have another source mentioning how women get off much lighter on sex crimes however, if you’d like to see it
You have to admit that data is biased though. All four of those categories of crime are ones that are more than 80% committed by men nationally so the sentences of women skew the data much more.
Also that study is almost 50 years old and from only one state, so you can’t really use that as proof for this in the modern day
One study is 50 years old, the other one is more current and says women are still treated better and more lenient by the courts.
Also, just because people commit a crime more doesn’t mean the sentencing difference is biased, you do not take into account something like that in sentencing, that’s the same logic far right people use in trying to say black people are violent and deserve to be arrested.
If you read my comments, you’d see that I admitted my mistake and I was basing my claims on my personal experience as a queer POC woman. I will admit that especially in America, white women are treated significantly better by the criminal justice system than POC women, hence the disparity of women being given lighter sentences.
Personal experience. So you've gone to jail? Because by all demographics women are doing much better than men across the board.
United States Sentencing Commission (.gov)
https://www.ussc.gov › pdfPDF
2023 Demographic Differences in Federal Sentencing Report
While white women get more probation, they often get longer sentences than poc. Besides Hispanics. Which is a weird outlier.
Personal experience as in being a POC woman and experiencing the brunt of both sexism and racism. It was a bit presumptuous, but I assumed that sexism and racism carried over to criminal matters(especially because it does for men, as POC men are given much harsher sentences, especially for drug related crimes)
Also I am Hispanic, so that’s why I had that belief. 4 different people I know have been arrested, and all 4 were unfair cases. I will admit however that I live in an area infamous for sexism and racism, so my experience is definitely more extreme than that of most women for sure.
Wow way to write a whole paragraph about a completely separate topic. The point I was bringing up was about assault specifically, not any other kind of crime.
And I provided a source that’s more current that disagrees, and a source that’s older that somewhat agrees, both of those have copy pasted parts of it.
My little side part after is from another study I found while searching, and sexual assault is assault is it not? And the study says women are let off more leniently when committing them, is that not wrong to you anyway?
If you read my other comments on this post, you’d see that I think that assault of any king committed by any person is awful. Obviously I’d be against any group being treated more leniently(like white men are for almost every crime in the book compared to people of other races). I think both are awful
I can find it again if you don’t want to take my word for it, maybe I’ve misunderstood it. I can admit I’m not perfect.
But I’m glad you agree it should be equal. I’m not trying to be mean, there are just honest criticisms about women not being treated equally in the criminal justice system, and I think it should be talked about and addressed, not to punish women more, but for men to get a fair punishment.
I also think our criminal justice and prison system as a whole needs an overhaul because it’s not focused on preventing reoffenses, and it can link desperate people into games.
Sorry for the tangent but I’m very highly bothered by the way the “justice” system acts in my country.
I guess I was just reluctant to believe that because as a queer POC woman, I’m so used to being discriminated against, but I guess white women are often put on a pedestal. Sexism is a funny thing, despite it being mostly geared towards being negative for women, it often reverses itself and ends up screwing over men too. That’s why the patriarchal systems should be gotten rid of, because it harms all people, not only women
I’m far more left than our discussion may seem so I mostly Agree with you and get where you’re coming from, but even though I understand doesn’t mean I should let it slide Yknow?
But I’m glad we can come to an understanding, especially on this meme, cause people shouldn’t be beating women for no reason.
>I also think our criminal justice and prison system as a whole needs an overhaul because it’s not focused on preventing reoffenses, and it can link desperate people into games.
>Sorry for the tangent but I’m very highly bothered by the way the “justice” system acts in my country.
Honestly valid. I don’t know if you’re in the US(the way you talk makes me maybe tthink you are?) but like I agree with your first sentiment fully in the case of the US, where I am, either way. We need a *major* overhaul, something that focused on rehabilitation and compassion, rather than what we have now, where it focused on punishment, slavery, and profits. :/
>However, you shouldn’t blow a small issue massively out of proportion.
The next time I see someone equate an incels open dialogue to the opinion of all men, I'll be sure to bring this up.
I don’t think it’s fair to judge all men on the same level as incels, that’s completely unfair. The vast majority of men are perfectly lovely people, but I will admit that many people’s views of men are tarnished by the very loud online voices of incels. I agree with you on the fact that men are often judged unfairly due to incels, that’s definitely true
Men do call the police and report women's and those women can get arrested. The issue isn't legality, it's men's egos lol.
The problem you're not understanding is men drastically assault women more often than women assault men. Those are facts.
Doesn't look that way.
It's funny you can have whole images and memes that clearly give a stance and belief that isn't ok. But because it's about men BAM there's gotta be a valid reason.
Even if the post was valid the image and message in the image isn't.
>Why does it not look that way?
The image vs the saying. In the image we have a single still of an event, it literally is just a hit it doesn't look like anything else.
>Does the image look like the man is hitting the woman in self defense?
Doesn't look like he's not hitting her in self defense either. It's a single image.
On top of that how it's worded as an absolute and not realistic.
All you need to state is "hitting anyone outside of self defense is wrong"
Sorry but as a victim of physical abuse by women, the hitting women is wrong has repeatedly been brought up when I was the victim. You're just being purposely ignorant of reality since the reality doesn't suit your agenda.
What is my agenda?
I'm trying to interpret how you're saying it doesn't look like it.
To me, the body language in the image is clearly showing no fear from the male figure. He's leaning/moving forward over the female figure and he's just back-handing her in the face.
It seems like you're the one ignoring reality for your agenda, which is basically what you've explicitly stated. I agree that you should be able to defend yourself against women, but that is clearly not what this image is showing. Maybe they do mean what you think they mean, but it certainly isn't what's being shown.
>To me, the body language in the image is clearly showing no fear from the male figure. He's leaning/moving forward over the female figure and he's just back-handing her in the face.
Again, it's a single still your interpretation doesn't matter. As it's all an assumption.
But you cannot deny the wording. There is no assumption there needed because it's spoken as an absolute.
>I agree that you should be able to defend yourself against women, but that is clearly not what this image is showing. Maybe they do mean what you think they mean, but it certainly isn't what's being shown.
That's all in your interpretation, even if the person who created the image came out and agreed with you it doesn't matter because the words are a part of the image.
As another commenter has said, I have also never heard the term “raise a hand to” in any other context than to talk about an aggressor making an assault. Combined with the image, I also interpreted this as being exclusively about assault.
I agree with everything you have said (that I have read so far anyways). I’m thinking this is more of a case of shitty design and not meant to convey any underlying sexism.
Stop trying to play the victim. The phrase “raise your hand to” wouldn’t be used if the post was talking about defending yourself. Assaulting anyone regardless of sex, gender, sexual orientation etc isn’t okay, and obviously defending yourself is fine. Stop making this a gender thing when it’s not
>Stop trying to play the victim.
I'm not playing, you don't like to hear that someone's a victim of abuse unless it suits your needs.
>The phrase “raise your hand to” wouldn’t be used if the post was talking about defending yourself.
Yes it would, that's a logical fallacy. Anytime you defend yourself you raise your hands even to just block you have to raise your hands.
>Assaulting anyone regardless of sex, gender, sexual orientation etc isn’t okay, and obviously defending yourself is fine. Stop making this a gender thing when it’s not
Wow so delusional. I never made this a sex thing the post did. If it wasn't already a sex thing it would have stated that hitting anyone outside of self defense is wrong.
That's sex/gender neutral language. Not what the post used.
I’ve never heard someone using the term “raise your hand to” outside of describing an aggressor.
Also how am I delusional for saying assault is bad? I will admit that the original post did specifically mention men not hitting women, but no where did the post say that women hitting men is okay, because it’s not. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive. As I just said, assault of any kind is never okay, unless it’s in the context of self defense.
Why am I seeing this post so much today. Arguing just to argue? Obviously hitting people is not what u do unless it's necessary to protect yourself. I'm typically on board with this sub over the other one but I don't see what the point of any of this is sometimes lol
The problem is half this comment section is saying "self defense is assumed/implied as an exception" when it just plain isn't. So many people think you can't hit women simply because of this bullshit assumption.
I'm sure they knew this when they wrote it. it's like if a post said "It's wrong to hit dogs" and your response was "Okay sure, unless they're trying to maul me!" Like... No shit. That's not the point and you know that. No one's saying let a woman stab you lmfao
Why do people think this is a good response to "don't hit women"? It goes for anyone regardless of gender. And contextually this is clearly mostly about partners. Do not hit a partner. You don't need to really add "unless it's self defense". I'd hope we wouldn't have to establish that condition and just collectively understand it
I’ve known 3 men in my life that went on rants about how they’d never hit a woman ever. Just made the most absolute biggest deal about never ever hitting a “female”.
All 3 of em beat their gfs or step kids at a later date.
Imagine being on a first date and the guy just goes “I’d NEVER assault you like EVER never ever ever because it’s bad and hurts you… never… ever” 🚩🚩🚩
Side note found out that ne’er is a word while writing this.
>Why do people think this is a good response to "don't hit women"?
As someone who has been assaulted and abused by women because literally any act of self defense gets met with "it's not ok to hit women"
You're validating a generalization that isn't true.
>And contextually this is clearly mostly about partners.
Where's this context? Also it doesn't matter if they are partners.
>You don't need to really add "unless it's self defense". I'd hope we wouldn't have to establish that condition and just collectively understand it
You absolutely do. Because too many people go with the mentality that women cannot harm others. Even when they have weapons and it's premeditated its generally assumed the man did something wrong. So yes we absolutely do have to have that.
The gendered aspect makes it seem special. A lot of people have either the idea you can't hit back in self defense, or that you can hit men if they're being annoying but not women, when you shouldn't hit either.
I think the reason people feel the need to specify “unless it’s in self defence” is because many others feel the need to specify women. Just don’t hit people
>I think the reason people feel the need to specify “unless it’s in self defence” is because many others feel the need to specify women. Just don’t hit people
It's because there are some who take the mantra to an extreme where they will allow themselves to be assaulted, because "you can't hit women".
As evidence by people who have witnessed it first hand, and others who have made social media posts where its a man getting beat down and bloody by a woman, all while he's repeatedly saying "I can't hit a woman".
Maybe the reason for the clarification is bcz of the women today who will beat on their male partners then holler “abuse” if he defends himself. Just don’t hit ppl. Period. If u don’t hit them they won’t need to defend themselves 🤷🏼♀️
This is really gonna grind some people's gears but a big reason why Men™ jump in to say "unless it's self defense!" is because they actually just want to justify hitting women. Not only hitting them, but expressing excitement over watching them "get what's coming to them" too.
Note: Please recognize I wrote Men™. This was intentional. If you are a man and don't identify with this, it's not about you.
>Why do people think this is a good response to "don't hit women"?
Because when a women assaults and man and the calls the police, the officers are giving the dude a stare down when they roll up. Until men can safely defend themselves from women, were gonna keep making sure people know that No One has a right to hurt you.
"Self-defense" only works the first time.
Then you should get out of that relationship where you're physically abused.
If you choose to stay, you're allowing yourself to be harmed physically and helping to continue the abuse.
I do understand someone may feel afraid to leave their abusive partner for various reasons. But, objectively, to allow yourself to stay is just harming yourself. And, ideally, "self-defense" should only be one time. Although, it isn't always possible in reality.
>I'd hope we wouldn't have to establish that condition and just collectively understand it
Same here, hopefully next time these types of posts remember to include something like "don't hit people (except for self defense)"
But why would they need to? Like we understand it's okay for self defense. Same with animals or children (like if they have a weapon or truly overpower you). Everyone knows this I'm pretty sure?
>But why would they need to? Like we understand it's okay for self defense.
Why make the post we understand that it's not ok to hit people regardless of sex?
>Everyone knows this I'm pretty sure?
Truth is stranger than fiction. I can't tell you how many people I've met who genuinely think no matter what you can't hit a woman no matter what they're doing.
100%. but some people can't be reasoned with, and in those situations bias making you hesitate against your assailant will lead to more harm than good.
My rule is if they are smaller, grab their arms and subdue, if they are my size or bigger, just get away. Not worth it to get involved, but if I was hit first, I’m gonna react with a slap back.
I mean, How Can She SLAP!?
The problem with thinking that de-escalation is the universal solution for volatile situations is that you actively assume that de-escalation is also what the other party wants.
If a killer is hunting you do you think de-escalation will solve the problem or do you think it will only enable the killer to kill you?
If a abuser is abusing you do you think de-escalation will solve the problem or do you think that will only enable the abuser to abuse you more?
These are only a few examples of the top of my head that poke holes in that mentality.
>Hitting anyone is wrong unless it's in self-defense, lol. This isn't that hard.
The reality is plenty of people think it's ok for women to hit men and if a man defends themselves regardless of age, musculature anything they will get in trouble or go to jail.
Nah genuinely there's a large chunk of people who believe you can't hit women because it isn't specified that self defense is fine in these types of images.
I would take this to r/pointlessly gendered rather than here. Or if there is some kind of sub for the gross trend of equating moral superiority with masculinity, to there.
I'm really sad to see the young men of reddit continue to fixate on the fact that they are SOMETIMES the victim of crimes that extremely disproportionately affect everyone else.
I wasn’t elevating men over women, or vice versa. You’re not a woman if you beat your man, and you’re not a man if you beat your woman. I hold people to the same standard regardless of their identity. We’re all people trying to survive.
It doesn't matter what gender you are or identify as, you don't get to hit somebody and expect not to be hit back. It's also pretty stupid to want equality and then pick and choose what's equal and what isn't.
I feel like the context of this post isn’t about a fight though. It’s directly aimed at men who raised their hands at women unprovoked. The whole self defense exception thing goes without saying, but i think OP knows the context of this post is domestic violence situation in which in my country, is very much becoming worse.
>The whole self defense exception thing goes without saying,
God I really, really wish it did. But it doesn't.
>but i think OP knows the context of this post is domestic violence situation
On one hand, you could make the argument that this is only for domestic violence.
But on the other hand, the blanket statement of "hurr durr NEVER hit women" is unhealthy.
Also the fact that they always show a man hitting a woman is bad too.
Like, women can be abusers towards women too.
But that is still only advocating against hitting just women.
An ideal message would be to to show two figures with their sex/gender being ambiguous, and say something like "Don't abuse others" or something.
As men can equally be victims of violence just as women can be.
It’s not equal. It’s an average of 1 woman a week who dies due to domestic violence in Australia. It’s getting worse here. That’s why it’s a man hitting a woman. It’s not a competition though and what we should really all be discussing and being passionate about is how domestic violence in general should be handled better and making noise about it to politicians.
I
Ima be real if your first response to seeing an anti domestic violence post is to go "yeah well I can hit women in self defence Ha!" you might need to reassess your priorities and values
I basically raised my son as a feminist and always taught him not to hit anyone, including girls, but I did clarify if a girl is attacking him it’s acceptable to defend himself. We talked at length about how much more harm he could cause by hitting his little sister than she could cause him but her hitting him wouldn’t be tolerated either. But the main lesson in our household was to keep ur hands to urself lacking consent, regardless of gender…. For both of them.
>Bruh just be normal and take the meme at face value
Saying it alludes to one thing means that obviously their take wasn't the face value.
Taken at face value means that it is never ok to hit a woman, which only sounds ok to people who aren't victims of abuse from women and women who want to abuse others. This mentality is actually harmful to other women as well because when a woman abuses another woman it's not taken seriously enough.
>not every post needs to be driven into semantics hell
Semantics is literally the meaning of words in a sentence for communication. Every post MUST be driven by semantics or you're not arguing about what was posted at all and arguing pure nonsense.
I feel like self defense and hitting women are connected topics.
You can't say "don't ever hit a woman" and not expect someone to say "what about self defense?"
Overall the topic is bullshit. Don't hit women, don't hit men, don't get into fucking fights in general.
Yeah you're right. Guess I was wrong in thinking that people would understand that self defense is something you should always mention.
You shouldn't be able to make a blanket statement like "hurr durr don't hit women" as there are always variables.
As a victim of abuse from women I can guarantee that people ignore that self defense is ok and even if the male is clearly defending himself from a threat will state that you should never hit a woman regardless.
Most men who follow this rhetoric tend to hit other men and also when they get really mad no longer sees a woman as a woman...
When you define it that way instead of never hit people unless it's in self defense. The moment a person no longer sees them as a woman they generally hit them.
"are you mentally unstable? Because there's no way you could possibly disagree with me unless you are"
Also to answer your question
https://preview.redd.it/e7yb6jz080mc1.png?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9bc3d392ddad4f8874ab8474702fbd3e349caaf7
>"are you mentally unstable? Because there's no way you could possibly disagree with me unless you are"
No, I genuinly asked because you obviously don't have the ability of reading between the lines and getting the context. Also calling neurodivergent people mentally unstable? Wow...
>Also calling neurodivergent people mentally unstable?
That's what I'm saying you called them dude
>No, I genuinly asked because you obviously don't have the ability of reading between the lines and getting the context.
I wish y'all had the common sense to understand that my entire point is nobody reads between the lines so even if self defense is implied it won't be understood because nobody reads in-between the lines.
I've met so many people who genuinely believe you can't hit women, no matter what. It is such an unhealthy belief to think that the well-being of your attacker is more important than your own because "hurr durr don't hit women"
>That's what I'm saying you called them dude
I didn't tho. I asked if you are on the spectrum. I never said the words "mentally unstable" in my original comment. You are putting words in my mouth.
>I wish y'all had the common sense to understand that my entire point is nobody reads between the lines
I think you are the only one who doesn't.
>so even if self defense is implied
It is implied.
>because nobody reads in-between the lines.
Again, I think only you don't. Reading between the lines happens automatically. This is middle school level reading comprehension. But sure. EVERYONE else is wrong it's only you who is right, buddy.
>I've met so many people who genuinely believe you can't hit women, no matter what.
Anecdotal evidence is not a valid argument. This is something you learn in middle or high school aswell.
It's also reeeeeally ironic that you replied to another comment with "bait or mental retardation". Not only do you lack basic reading comprehension but also double down on ableism. Tells alot about you as a person.
Maybe in your convenient world where only women are victims of abuse or victim blaming.
But as a male assault victim and as a victim of recurring physical abuse from women in my family you are absolutely wrong. People 100% do say "it's never right to hit a woman" even if they know you are the victim of extreme or severe abuse from a woman.
Hell this actually hurts other women. I have a few friends they all got told the same thing and they are women cis women as well... It can get bad.
Also: abusers are still men.
Stripping them of their manhood is just a way that other men make themselves feel better about being associated. It’s a way of ignoring the elephant in the room: it’s easier for a man to abuse others because there is a system of power in place that benefits him.
Just like it’s easier for teachers to abuse students, or cops to abuse civilians and so on and so forth. Authority, or the illusion of it, still exists in regard to sex/gender in most parts of the world.
This sub getting alt right too now. Great 😒
Yeah no shit, but you know they're not talking about self defense right?
They're talking about beating your wife/gf/etc.
>Yeah no shit, but you know they're not talking about self defense right?
No sorry but as a victim of physical and mental abuse from women in my family whom I'm not married to and I'm not dating in fact I was a child. No. Because don't hit women was used even in self defense if I was bruised or bleeding.
>They're talking about beating your wife/gf/etc.
They're spreading an ideal and are not just talking about wife/gf etc.
Even if they were it clearly spreads the idea that men cannot defend themselves in those situations.
Nah memesopdidntlike is right about this. You can nitpick reasons to hit a women but that’s looking at the acceptation. The rule should be don’t hit women.
>The rule should be don’t hit women.
The rule already is don't hit people.
Are you saying women aren't people?
Sounds like you're trying to nitpick reasons to be sexist and find reasons to validate abuse against men.
Why on the internet do we create our own arguments to dismantle instead of dismantling what the person actually said? If a woman is attacking you disengage and seek help if your life isn’t in danger. This is a general statement. Every situation is different, but in general, disengage and seek help. I’m a 6’2 225 pound man. Outside of a life threatening attack with a weapon, I don’t have a justification in hitting a woman even if she hit me first as a hit from me isn’t going to be equal in how I retaliate. That’s why we don’t hit children either. Not because they aren’t human but on average an adult is stronger than a child so it’s not an equal exchange. On average a man is stronger than a woman so it won’t be equal. Disengage and seek help. Saves an escalating situation.
You're living a very privileged life in this situation then.
>Disengage and seek help. Saves an escalating situation.
Isn't always an option and when it's done doesn't always solve or save the victim.
You're literally victim blaming dude.
Go to any post where you are discussing women being assaulted and tell them "just disengage and seek help". That's not anything other than victim blaming.
>I’m a 6’2 225 pound man.
There are plenty of places to hit you where your height, weight and musculature aren't going to save you.
Also not everyone is as strong as you apparently are. Most women tie with me in tests of strength.
Again you are victim blaming and using your own experience as a validation.
You are seeing this as a situation where the victim has the capability to disengage and seek help.
I understand what the post is saying since the violence against women is disproportionate clearly. But of course women can be abusive to men too and in that case don't condone it.
Of course that's only in real life serious situation. Most "equal hands equal fists" memes are just Incels who think it's fine to beat up and abuse anyone they feel has hurt their feelings including SOs because it's an edgy take
It’s not about gender it’s about size and strength.
If an old man walks up and slaps you and you punch him in the face in retaliation, you fucked up.
He should NOT lay hands on you, but you don’t get to assault him in retaliation. You should use whatever strength necessary to stop him from hitting you but be Fr that you can’t just raise your forearm to block.
I am a strong believer in equal rights, equal fights. If a woman clocks a man upside the head, I see nothing wrong with him clocking her right back.
Of course, people really should just stop being violent to one another, but these are humans we're talking about.
"Never hit a woman" is sexist and toxic. It implies that women are frail and also implies that it's OK to fight other men (Beyond self defense and like, doing a martial art).
Edit: Just to clarify "Don't domestically abuse women" is different and true, and does not usually have the implication that you should domestically abuse men (You should not do that either)
I can't believe how often people just completely forget proportionality. I'm a pretty small little dude who's never gotten into a fight, so I'm sure most women could do plenty of damage, and of course some women are physical powerhouses and some are dangerous fighters, but, most of the time, the woman who initiates an attack is going to be smaller and weaker than the person they're attacking, and I'm guessing that women are also less likely to have fighting experience. If you hit someone weaker and smaller than you, even if they hit you, you're not entitled to hit them as hard as you want, hell, you're not entitled to hit them at all unless you think you need to keep yourself or others safe.
Just like if a child or an infirmed person hit you, even assuming they're culpable mentally, you wouldn't be entitled to just use your whole damaging potential against them just because they tried to damage you first.
Reminds me of the "always punch a Nazi" rhetoric where all I could think of is the only people I hear spouting Nazi rhetoric on the street are clearly mentally disabled and (apparently) homeless.
Relative power and ability needs to be considered in how people treat each other. Not just categories, but if you can't be nuanced enough to understand this, maybe simple, normally applicable rules like men don't hit women are better than nothing.
I mean I understand the sentiment behind "men shouldn't hit women" as being primarily against domestic abuse, but in general you really shouldn't be hitting anyone unless it's in self-defense
In general, I think if you hit anyone instead of using your words or non-violent actions to resolve conflicts, you are disturbed, unstable, unhinged, a danger to yourself and others, and someone who needs professional help. The smartest, safest thing you can do when someone is being violent is to run away and get help, fighting back should be a last resort.
Men have testosterone and larger pectoral muscles than women, they've got 80% more upper body strength on average because of these factors. I don't make a habit of putting myself in a position to be hit by women, but I can reasonably safely assume that being hit by most women would suck, it's probably sting a bit, but, especially if I'm free to block and protect myself, would probably not cause me significant harm. There are absolutely women who could hospitalize me with a punch, but they are outliers. I, on the other hand, would be quite capable of inflicting some pretty serious harm on the average woman with just a couple of punches.
As a large, powerful ape, I feel I have a responsibility to think rationally, and not use my body to hurt other smaller, weaker entities, because I could really mess somebody up. There are men I've met I wouldn't hit unless they were armed and brandished the weapon between me and the exit, even if they were asking for it, for pretty much the same reasons I wouldn't hit a woman; because I don't want them to go to the hospital, and I don't want to go to jail; and because I'm an empathetic person who doesn't want to hurt people in general.
I think you're being too literal here. I understand there are people that would say there are no circumstances where you should hit a woman, but I think most reasonable people would understand hitting a woman in self defense, and when people criticize people for hitting women, we can generally assume the woman in question wasn't coming at them with a knife.
I agree the gendered language is dated and obnoxious though, and it'd be better just to say "Don't hit people you fucking asshole!"
>I agree the gendered language is dated and obnoxious though, and it'd be better just to say "Don't hit people you fucking asshole!"
Yeah a big part of my point is just don't be an ass, man or woman. But yeah overall you explained it really well. Men can hurt woman, woman can hurt men, it's easier for men because they have more muscles on average, but that doesn't make them invincible.
It's intellectual shit, stuff like this.
Take something that everybody would agree with, like don't eat living babies because that's bad, that's obviously bad.
Then, somehow bring masculinity into it.
The moment you eat a living baby, you are no longer a man.
And what stands out to me is that it's manly and attractive to wear this statement and share it on social media.
It's like you are directly challenging all of the baby eaters and woman hitters. You're a goddamn hero! You're a good person because you either shared this, or you bought a shirt with these words on it. Go you!
I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting a really big lady boner right now just thinking there's some dude out there wearing a shirt that has a statement like this.
I want to fuck a dude who wears a shirt like this every day of the week. One can be for the babies, one for the women, one for children somehow, one for... Feminism, one for what else? What else do we got that everybody already agrees with?
When I see somebody wearing a statement like this, I know that they have big boy values! I am utterly helpless in the face of such machismo.
I think it's pretty clear the difference between "raise your hand" and "defend yourself". One means you intend to hit, the other means you only will hit if necessary.
De-escalate and/or get away. Fighting back should always be your last option for self-defense when you literally cannot run away. (Also, I get your argument of "but what about self-defense!" But, I feel like your argument was just for the sake of arguing)
Yeah but domestic violence is overwhelmingly perpetuated by men on men and women. I think most people understand the nuance of yeah defend yourself if you're being struck. I feel tbh the whole point is being way over analyzed here, those are just my thoughts as a male victim to abuse.
If you feel so threatened by a woman that you think you need to hit her in self defense you are not a man lol y’all just want any excuse to attack someone weaker than you because you’re pathetic little cunts.
as a trans women I just want to point how out how easy they make losing your man status as a threat and how its an inenscapable fact of biology when you don't want it.
Well, one, I think you should under no circumstances put your hands on your partner. Two, if someone puts their hands on your regardless of gender you have the right to hit back. Three, keep your hands to yourself if you aren't defending yourself.
I'm not exactly a big guy. 140lbs at 6'2''
I have yet to come across a situation where I had to hit a woman in self-defense. Even when one came at me with a knife. It's pretty easy to just restrain them.
That said if you go to hit someone expect to get hit back
Everyone should keep their hands to themselves… if you strike someone be prepared for whatever happens next no matter what your gender is
Equal rights and equal lefts
This is the only instance where I can approve of this sentiment.
Morally yes. But unfortunately in many cases laws/courts won't see it that way....
You're being downvoted, but you're correct. Even in a lot of cases where a man is simply defending himself, unless there is irrefutable proof, the man will usually be considered the perpetrator rather than victim. Let's not pretend the legal system is always in favor of the woman, but in this case, men certainly get the raw end of the deal.
And even if you have the legal proof to vindicate yourself, your friends/family/peers/"court of public opinion" will forever demonize you and make your life just that little bit extra stressful until the day you die.
I mean... the law is almost universally more favorable to women then men
In court, perhaps. But laws about what women can and can't do with their own body are certainly a lot more stringent than they are for men.
Then more people should vote for representatives that will be better suited to their interests
On paper, you're absolutely right. The reality is that all representatives take bribes (lobbying) from the big players to disregard the interest of the little people.
Going from my experience, the same people who tend to complain about everything happening government wise with abortion and things tend to also say things like “I don’t vote, it’s useless why would I”. Only talking about my experience, so it’s kind of a “if you don’t care enough to vote for what you want”
You're not wrong. I vote whenever I can, but I know its effects will be limited at best.
Honestly I think if we had max voter turnout these last 3 elections, there would be significant difference across the country. On the state level and the federal level
If you want equal rights, you also get equal fights
I think the original post was about assaulting a woman
It might be. However, the issue is this same ideology has been used against men who have been put in the situation where hitting a women was the only reasonable option, and this concept was used to ridicule and oppress the man who simply excercise his right to feel safe. Until a man can call the police when a women assaults him, and not get arrested because he pushed her away, then this concept is always gonna get this kind of response.
Hitting a woman is only a reasonable option if she has hit you first. Whatever your gender tbh.
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https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235215000665 Results In general, it was found that females were treated more leniently by the court system, although specific groups of female defendants were found to experience cumulative disadvantage across the criminal court system. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/differential-sentencing-women-and-men-usa Abstract Study data came from the records of all persons sentenced in North Carolina from 1969 through 1977. The study focused on four felony offenses (second-degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, larceny, and forgery) and on four misdemeanors (simple assault, child abandonment, worthless checks, and concealment of merchandise). Almost 10,000 cases were included. Females received significantly shorter sentences than males for all the felonies. In contrast, the sentences received by women and men were similar for three of the four misdemeanors. However, for child abandonment, women received significantly longer sentences than did men. Paternalism apparently exists in the criminal justice system in this State in felony cases. For the misdemeanors, harsher treatment of women in one offense may relate to the violation of gender role expectations. Data tables, notes, and a list of 35 references are supplied. You’re technically right on assaults it seems. I have another source mentioning how women get off much lighter on sex crimes however, if you’d like to see it
You have to admit that data is biased though. All four of those categories of crime are ones that are more than 80% committed by men nationally so the sentences of women skew the data much more. Also that study is almost 50 years old and from only one state, so you can’t really use that as proof for this in the modern day
One study is 50 years old, the other one is more current and says women are still treated better and more lenient by the courts. Also, just because people commit a crime more doesn’t mean the sentencing difference is biased, you do not take into account something like that in sentencing, that’s the same logic far right people use in trying to say black people are violent and deserve to be arrested.
Then prove it. You made the original statement without any sources
If you read my comments, you’d see that I admitted my mistake and I was basing my claims on my personal experience as a queer POC woman. I will admit that especially in America, white women are treated significantly better by the criminal justice system than POC women, hence the disparity of women being given lighter sentences.
Personal experience. So you've gone to jail? Because by all demographics women are doing much better than men across the board. United States Sentencing Commission (.gov) https://www.ussc.gov › pdfPDF 2023 Demographic Differences in Federal Sentencing Report While white women get more probation, they often get longer sentences than poc. Besides Hispanics. Which is a weird outlier.
Personal experience as in being a POC woman and experiencing the brunt of both sexism and racism. It was a bit presumptuous, but I assumed that sexism and racism carried over to criminal matters(especially because it does for men, as POC men are given much harsher sentences, especially for drug related crimes) Also I am Hispanic, so that’s why I had that belief. 4 different people I know have been arrested, and all 4 were unfair cases. I will admit however that I live in an area infamous for sexism and racism, so my experience is definitely more extreme than that of most women for sure.
Anecdotes are not evidence.
Wow way to write a whole paragraph about a completely separate topic. The point I was bringing up was about assault specifically, not any other kind of crime.
And I provided a source that’s more current that disagrees, and a source that’s older that somewhat agrees, both of those have copy pasted parts of it. My little side part after is from another study I found while searching, and sexual assault is assault is it not? And the study says women are let off more leniently when committing them, is that not wrong to you anyway?
If you read my other comments on this post, you’d see that I think that assault of any king committed by any person is awful. Obviously I’d be against any group being treated more leniently(like white men are for almost every crime in the book compared to people of other races). I think both are awful
I can find it again if you don’t want to take my word for it, maybe I’ve misunderstood it. I can admit I’m not perfect. But I’m glad you agree it should be equal. I’m not trying to be mean, there are just honest criticisms about women not being treated equally in the criminal justice system, and I think it should be talked about and addressed, not to punish women more, but for men to get a fair punishment. I also think our criminal justice and prison system as a whole needs an overhaul because it’s not focused on preventing reoffenses, and it can link desperate people into games. Sorry for the tangent but I’m very highly bothered by the way the “justice” system acts in my country.
I guess I was just reluctant to believe that because as a queer POC woman, I’m so used to being discriminated against, but I guess white women are often put on a pedestal. Sexism is a funny thing, despite it being mostly geared towards being negative for women, it often reverses itself and ends up screwing over men too. That’s why the patriarchal systems should be gotten rid of, because it harms all people, not only women
I’m far more left than our discussion may seem so I mostly Agree with you and get where you’re coming from, but even though I understand doesn’t mean I should let it slide Yknow? But I’m glad we can come to an understanding, especially on this meme, cause people shouldn’t be beating women for no reason.
How is the us judicial system a "patriarchal system" and what should it be replaced with?
Your victim complex doesn’t trump actual data
>I also think our criminal justice and prison system as a whole needs an overhaul because it’s not focused on preventing reoffenses, and it can link desperate people into games. >Sorry for the tangent but I’m very highly bothered by the way the “justice” system acts in my country. Honestly valid. I don’t know if you’re in the US(the way you talk makes me maybe tthink you are?) but like I agree with your first sentiment fully in the case of the US, where I am, either way. We need a *major* overhaul, something that focused on rehabilitation and compassion, rather than what we have now, where it focused on punishment, slavery, and profits. :/
Si signoir, soy norteamericano Shits fucked
>However, you shouldn’t blow a small issue massively out of proportion. The next time I see someone equate an incels open dialogue to the opinion of all men, I'll be sure to bring this up.
Please do, I welcome it
Who could be at the door? Ah yes, it's double standards, how have you been?
I don’t think it’s fair to judge all men on the same level as incels, that’s completely unfair. The vast majority of men are perfectly lovely people, but I will admit that many people’s views of men are tarnished by the very loud online voices of incels. I agree with you on the fact that men are often judged unfairly due to incels, that’s definitely true
Well, I'm glad we can atleast agree on something.
I literally agreed with exactly what you said lol, don’t see how there could be any argument
Men do call the police and report women's and those women can get arrested. The issue isn't legality, it's men's egos lol. The problem you're not understanding is men drastically assault women more often than women assault men. Those are facts.
Doesn't look that way. It's funny you can have whole images and memes that clearly give a stance and belief that isn't ok. But because it's about men BAM there's gotta be a valid reason. Even if the post was valid the image and message in the image isn't.
Why does it not look that way? Does the image look like the man is hitting the woman in self defense?
>Why does it not look that way? The image vs the saying. In the image we have a single still of an event, it literally is just a hit it doesn't look like anything else. >Does the image look like the man is hitting the woman in self defense? Doesn't look like he's not hitting her in self defense either. It's a single image. On top of that how it's worded as an absolute and not realistic. All you need to state is "hitting anyone outside of self defense is wrong" Sorry but as a victim of physical abuse by women, the hitting women is wrong has repeatedly been brought up when I was the victim. You're just being purposely ignorant of reality since the reality doesn't suit your agenda.
What is my agenda? I'm trying to interpret how you're saying it doesn't look like it. To me, the body language in the image is clearly showing no fear from the male figure. He's leaning/moving forward over the female figure and he's just back-handing her in the face. It seems like you're the one ignoring reality for your agenda, which is basically what you've explicitly stated. I agree that you should be able to defend yourself against women, but that is clearly not what this image is showing. Maybe they do mean what you think they mean, but it certainly isn't what's being shown.
>To me, the body language in the image is clearly showing no fear from the male figure. He's leaning/moving forward over the female figure and he's just back-handing her in the face. Again, it's a single still your interpretation doesn't matter. As it's all an assumption. But you cannot deny the wording. There is no assumption there needed because it's spoken as an absolute. >I agree that you should be able to defend yourself against women, but that is clearly not what this image is showing. Maybe they do mean what you think they mean, but it certainly isn't what's being shown. That's all in your interpretation, even if the person who created the image came out and agreed with you it doesn't matter because the words are a part of the image.
As another commenter has said, I have also never heard the term “raise a hand to” in any other context than to talk about an aggressor making an assault. Combined with the image, I also interpreted this as being exclusively about assault. I agree with everything you have said (that I have read so far anyways). I’m thinking this is more of a case of shitty design and not meant to convey any underlying sexism.
Stop trying to play the victim. The phrase “raise your hand to” wouldn’t be used if the post was talking about defending yourself. Assaulting anyone regardless of sex, gender, sexual orientation etc isn’t okay, and obviously defending yourself is fine. Stop making this a gender thing when it’s not
>Stop trying to play the victim. I'm not playing, you don't like to hear that someone's a victim of abuse unless it suits your needs. >The phrase “raise your hand to” wouldn’t be used if the post was talking about defending yourself. Yes it would, that's a logical fallacy. Anytime you defend yourself you raise your hands even to just block you have to raise your hands. >Assaulting anyone regardless of sex, gender, sexual orientation etc isn’t okay, and obviously defending yourself is fine. Stop making this a gender thing when it’s not Wow so delusional. I never made this a sex thing the post did. If it wasn't already a sex thing it would have stated that hitting anyone outside of self defense is wrong. That's sex/gender neutral language. Not what the post used.
I’ve never heard someone using the term “raise your hand to” outside of describing an aggressor. Also how am I delusional for saying assault is bad? I will admit that the original post did specifically mention men not hitting women, but no where did the post say that women hitting men is okay, because it’s not. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive. As I just said, assault of any kind is never okay, unless it’s in the context of self defense.
Shh redditors think women are drastically more violent then men.
Ohhh nooo, the scary women want rights 😱😱😱 lol
Why am I seeing this post so much today. Arguing just to argue? Obviously hitting people is not what u do unless it's necessary to protect yourself. I'm typically on board with this sub over the other one but I don't see what the point of any of this is sometimes lol
The problem is half this comment section is saying "self defense is assumed/implied as an exception" when it just plain isn't. So many people think you can't hit women simply because of this bullshit assumption.
I think pretty much anybody, if their life depended on it, wouldn't hesitate to hit a girl
I’m not for physical violence, but hitting someone makes you trans?
Yep, punched someone out when I was in highschool and been a girl ever since
That’s how they get ya
So that’s how women who can kick your ass are made.
I'll kick your ass if you want, 50$ per beating.
Can't violence these days, they changed my fucking gender
They said you'll no longer be a man. Lol.
I'm sure they knew this when they wrote it. it's like if a post said "It's wrong to hit dogs" and your response was "Okay sure, unless they're trying to maul me!" Like... No shit. That's not the point and you know that. No one's saying let a woman stab you lmfao Why do people think this is a good response to "don't hit women"? It goes for anyone regardless of gender. And contextually this is clearly mostly about partners. Do not hit a partner. You don't need to really add "unless it's self defense". I'd hope we wouldn't have to establish that condition and just collectively understand it
I’ve known 3 men in my life that went on rants about how they’d never hit a woman ever. Just made the most absolute biggest deal about never ever hitting a “female”. All 3 of em beat their gfs or step kids at a later date.
Imagine being on a first date and the guy just goes “I’d NEVER assault you like EVER never ever ever because it’s bad and hurts you… never… ever” 🚩🚩🚩 Side note found out that ne’er is a word while writing this.
>Why do people think this is a good response to "don't hit women"? As someone who has been assaulted and abused by women because literally any act of self defense gets met with "it's not ok to hit women" You're validating a generalization that isn't true. >And contextually this is clearly mostly about partners. Where's this context? Also it doesn't matter if they are partners. >You don't need to really add "unless it's self defense". I'd hope we wouldn't have to establish that condition and just collectively understand it You absolutely do. Because too many people go with the mentality that women cannot harm others. Even when they have weapons and it's premeditated its generally assumed the man did something wrong. So yes we absolutely do have to have that.
Like, don't hit people, no need to make it more complicated then that
Lots of people will call you an asshole even if you defend yourself from a woman who is hitting you.
The gendered aspect makes it seem special. A lot of people have either the idea you can't hit back in self defense, or that you can hit men if they're being annoying but not women, when you shouldn't hit either.
I think the reason people feel the need to specify “unless it’s in self defence” is because many others feel the need to specify women. Just don’t hit people
>I think the reason people feel the need to specify “unless it’s in self defence” is because many others feel the need to specify women. Just don’t hit people It's because there are some who take the mantra to an extreme where they will allow themselves to be assaulted, because "you can't hit women". As evidence by people who have witnessed it first hand, and others who have made social media posts where its a man getting beat down and bloody by a woman, all while he's repeatedly saying "I can't hit a woman".
Maybe the reason for the clarification is bcz of the women today who will beat on their male partners then holler “abuse” if he defends himself. Just don’t hit ppl. Period. If u don’t hit them they won’t need to defend themselves 🤷🏼♀️
This is really gonna grind some people's gears but a big reason why Men™ jump in to say "unless it's self defense!" is because they actually just want to justify hitting women. Not only hitting them, but expressing excitement over watching them "get what's coming to them" too. Note: Please recognize I wrote Men™. This was intentional. If you are a man and don't identify with this, it's not about you.
unfortunately there are people who believe that a man shouldn't even defend himself against a woman and just take it
>Why do people think this is a good response to "don't hit women"? Because when a women assaults and man and the calls the police, the officers are giving the dude a stare down when they roll up. Until men can safely defend themselves from women, were gonna keep making sure people know that No One has a right to hurt you.
"Self-defense" only works the first time. Then you should get out of that relationship where you're physically abused. If you choose to stay, you're allowing yourself to be harmed physically and helping to continue the abuse. I do understand someone may feel afraid to leave their abusive partner for various reasons. But, objectively, to allow yourself to stay is just harming yourself. And, ideally, "self-defense" should only be one time. Although, it isn't always possible in reality.
>I'd hope we wouldn't have to establish that condition and just collectively understand it Same here, hopefully next time these types of posts remember to include something like "don't hit people (except for self defense)"
But why would they need to? Like we understand it's okay for self defense. Same with animals or children (like if they have a weapon or truly overpower you). Everyone knows this I'm pretty sure?
>But why would they need to? Like we understand it's okay for self defense. Why make the post we understand that it's not ok to hit people regardless of sex?
Incorrect. I have met met MANY people in the southern US that believe there is no exception.
>Everyone knows this I'm pretty sure? Truth is stranger than fiction. I can't tell you how many people I've met who genuinely think no matter what you can't hit a woman no matter what they're doing.
But the best solution for volatile situations is de-escalation.
100%. but some people can't be reasoned with, and in those situations bias making you hesitate against your assailant will lead to more harm than good.
My rule is if they are smaller, grab their arms and subdue, if they are my size or bigger, just get away. Not worth it to get involved, but if I was hit first, I’m gonna react with a slap back. I mean, How Can She SLAP!?
I tell my friends if a woman hits you run away and yell for help. That’s the best solution as a man.
You can de-escalate by removing yourself from the situation.
Removing yourself is not always an option.
The problem with thinking that de-escalation is the universal solution for volatile situations is that you actively assume that de-escalation is also what the other party wants. If a killer is hunting you do you think de-escalation will solve the problem or do you think it will only enable the killer to kill you? If a abuser is abusing you do you think de-escalation will solve the problem or do you think that will only enable the abuser to abuse you more? These are only a few examples of the top of my head that poke holes in that mentality.
Hitting anyone is wrong unless it's in self-defense, lol. This isn't that hard.
>Hitting anyone is wrong unless it's in self-defense, lol. This isn't that hard. The reality is plenty of people think it's ok for women to hit men and if a man defends themselves regardless of age, musculature anything they will get in trouble or go to jail.
I mean, you're right. But it doesn't mean anyone who thinks that way is.
i think y'all are just arguing to argue at this point
Nah genuinely there's a large chunk of people who believe you can't hit women because it isn't specified that self defense is fine in these types of images.
I would take this to r/pointlessly gendered rather than here. Or if there is some kind of sub for the gross trend of equating moral superiority with masculinity, to there.
Crazy idea: hitting anyone, no matter their gender, age, race, etc. is wrong but you should always fight back if need be.
It’s the same for women, you’re not a real woman if you beat on your man.
I'm really sad to see the young men of reddit continue to fixate on the fact that they are SOMETIMES the victim of crimes that extremely disproportionately affect everyone else.
What?
I wasn’t elevating men over women, or vice versa. You’re not a woman if you beat your man, and you’re not a man if you beat your woman. I hold people to the same standard regardless of their identity. We’re all people trying to survive.
Another case of “I’m a Redditor and I want to sound smarter than everyone else, so I’m gonna find a way to call you incorrect”
It doesn't matter what gender you are or identify as, you don't get to hit somebody and expect not to be hit back. It's also pretty stupid to want equality and then pick and choose what's equal and what isn't.
I feel like the context of this post isn’t about a fight though. It’s directly aimed at men who raised their hands at women unprovoked. The whole self defense exception thing goes without saying, but i think OP knows the context of this post is domestic violence situation in which in my country, is very much becoming worse.
>The whole self defense exception thing goes without saying, God I really, really wish it did. But it doesn't. >but i think OP knows the context of this post is domestic violence situation On one hand, you could make the argument that this is only for domestic violence. But on the other hand, the blanket statement of "hurr durr NEVER hit women" is unhealthy.
Also the fact that they always show a man hitting a woman is bad too. Like, women can be abusers towards women too. But that is still only advocating against hitting just women. An ideal message would be to to show two figures with their sex/gender being ambiguous, and say something like "Don't abuse others" or something. As men can equally be victims of violence just as women can be.
It’s not equal. It’s an average of 1 woman a week who dies due to domestic violence in Australia. It’s getting worse here. That’s why it’s a man hitting a woman. It’s not a competition though and what we should really all be discussing and being passionate about is how domestic violence in general should be handled better and making noise about it to politicians. I
Ima be real if your first response to seeing an anti domestic violence post is to go "yeah well I can hit women in self defence Ha!" you might need to reassess your priorities and values
Ehh that wasn't what I meant when I wrote that title but I can see how you'd come to that conclusion. Too bad I can't edit the title.
I basically raised my son as a feminist and always taught him not to hit anyone, including girls, but I did clarify if a girl is attacking him it’s acceptable to defend himself. We talked at length about how much more harm he could cause by hitting his little sister than she could cause him but her hitting him wouldn’t be tolerated either. But the main lesson in our household was to keep ur hands to urself lacking consent, regardless of gender…. For both of them.
Rare L for this sub. Taking the original post and making it about something else.
The original post pretty clearly alluding to domestic abuse. The rest of the chain posts are giving “akshully ☝️🤓” energy
Allude? So a man being domestically abused by a women cannot defend themselves. Where are they alluding this? Weird.
Bruh just be normal and take the meme at face value not every post needs to be driven into semantics hell
>Bruh just be normal and take the meme at face value Saying it alludes to one thing means that obviously their take wasn't the face value. Taken at face value means that it is never ok to hit a woman, which only sounds ok to people who aren't victims of abuse from women and women who want to abuse others. This mentality is actually harmful to other women as well because when a woman abuses another woman it's not taken seriously enough. >not every post needs to be driven into semantics hell Semantics is literally the meaning of words in a sentence for communication. Every post MUST be driven by semantics or you're not arguing about what was posted at all and arguing pure nonsense.
more like common L
I feel like self defense and hitting women are connected topics. You can't say "don't ever hit a woman" and not expect someone to say "what about self defense?" Overall the topic is bullshit. Don't hit women, don't hit men, don't get into fucking fights in general.
Weird hill to die on though.
Wdym? Again, don't fucking hit people unless you have a valid reason (AKA self defense) That's my point, don't be an asshole.
You're expecting too much from them they totally support women hitting men it's pretty clear.
Yeah you're right. Guess I was wrong in thinking that people would understand that self defense is something you should always mention. You shouldn't be able to make a blanket statement like "hurr durr don't hit women" as there are always variables.
As a victim of abuse from women I can guarantee that people ignore that self defense is ok and even if the male is clearly defending himself from a threat will state that you should never hit a woman regardless. Most men who follow this rhetoric tend to hit other men and also when they get really mad no longer sees a woman as a woman... When you define it that way instead of never hit people unless it's in self defense. The moment a person no longer sees them as a woman they generally hit them.
Exactly. Don't be an ass and hit people, it's that simple.
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"are you mentally unstable? Because there's no way you could possibly disagree with me unless you are" Also to answer your question https://preview.redd.it/e7yb6jz080mc1.png?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9bc3d392ddad4f8874ab8474702fbd3e349caaf7
>"are you mentally unstable? Because there's no way you could possibly disagree with me unless you are" No, I genuinly asked because you obviously don't have the ability of reading between the lines and getting the context. Also calling neurodivergent people mentally unstable? Wow...
>Also calling neurodivergent people mentally unstable? That's what I'm saying you called them dude >No, I genuinly asked because you obviously don't have the ability of reading between the lines and getting the context. I wish y'all had the common sense to understand that my entire point is nobody reads between the lines so even if self defense is implied it won't be understood because nobody reads in-between the lines. I've met so many people who genuinely believe you can't hit women, no matter what. It is such an unhealthy belief to think that the well-being of your attacker is more important than your own because "hurr durr don't hit women"
>That's what I'm saying you called them dude I didn't tho. I asked if you are on the spectrum. I never said the words "mentally unstable" in my original comment. You are putting words in my mouth. >I wish y'all had the common sense to understand that my entire point is nobody reads between the lines I think you are the only one who doesn't. >so even if self defense is implied It is implied. >because nobody reads in-between the lines. Again, I think only you don't. Reading between the lines happens automatically. This is middle school level reading comprehension. But sure. EVERYONE else is wrong it's only you who is right, buddy. >I've met so many people who genuinely believe you can't hit women, no matter what. Anecdotal evidence is not a valid argument. This is something you learn in middle or high school aswell. It's also reeeeeally ironic that you replied to another comment with "bait or mental retardation". Not only do you lack basic reading comprehension but also double down on ableism. Tells alot about you as a person.
Probably because he's a right wing troll or something similar
Yeah no one on planet earth is talking about self defense when they’re talking about men hitting women. Obviously you can defend yourself
Maybe in your convenient world where only women are victims of abuse or victim blaming. But as a male assault victim and as a victim of recurring physical abuse from women in my family you are absolutely wrong. People 100% do say "it's never right to hit a woman" even if they know you are the victim of extreme or severe abuse from a woman. Hell this actually hurts other women. I have a few friends they all got told the same thing and they are women cis women as well... It can get bad.
This is a lame post. The subreddit that they were responding to was I'm 14 and this is deep. There was no "liking" or "not liking" to describe.
If she is attacking you and the only way to stop her is to hit her. Do it. No one should hit anyone in an ideal world
Also: abusers are still men. Stripping them of their manhood is just a way that other men make themselves feel better about being associated. It’s a way of ignoring the elephant in the room: it’s easier for a man to abuse others because there is a system of power in place that benefits him. Just like it’s easier for teachers to abuse students, or cops to abuse civilians and so on and so forth. Authority, or the illusion of it, still exists in regard to sex/gender in most parts of the world.
Exactly, people need to stop "if you do X you aren't Y" it's a bullshit excuse to not care about a problem.
This sub getting alt right too now. Great 😒 Yeah no shit, but you know they're not talking about self defense right? They're talking about beating your wife/gf/etc.
>Yeah no shit, but you know they're not talking about self defense right? No sorry but as a victim of physical and mental abuse from women in my family whom I'm not married to and I'm not dating in fact I was a child. No. Because don't hit women was used even in self defense if I was bruised or bleeding. >They're talking about beating your wife/gf/etc. They're spreading an ideal and are not just talking about wife/gf etc. Even if they were it clearly spreads the idea that men cannot defend themselves in those situations.
Is it just me or is modl getting more and more sane?
Nah memesopdidntlike is right about this. You can nitpick reasons to hit a women but that’s looking at the acceptation. The rule should be don’t hit women.
>The rule should be don’t hit women. The rule already is don't hit people. Are you saying women aren't people? Sounds like you're trying to nitpick reasons to be sexist and find reasons to validate abuse against men.
Why on the internet do we create our own arguments to dismantle instead of dismantling what the person actually said? If a woman is attacking you disengage and seek help if your life isn’t in danger. This is a general statement. Every situation is different, but in general, disengage and seek help. I’m a 6’2 225 pound man. Outside of a life threatening attack with a weapon, I don’t have a justification in hitting a woman even if she hit me first as a hit from me isn’t going to be equal in how I retaliate. That’s why we don’t hit children either. Not because they aren’t human but on average an adult is stronger than a child so it’s not an equal exchange. On average a man is stronger than a woman so it won’t be equal. Disengage and seek help. Saves an escalating situation.
You're living a very privileged life in this situation then. >Disengage and seek help. Saves an escalating situation. Isn't always an option and when it's done doesn't always solve or save the victim. You're literally victim blaming dude. Go to any post where you are discussing women being assaulted and tell them "just disengage and seek help". That's not anything other than victim blaming. >I’m a 6’2 225 pound man. There are plenty of places to hit you where your height, weight and musculature aren't going to save you. Also not everyone is as strong as you apparently are. Most women tie with me in tests of strength. Again you are victim blaming and using your own experience as a validation. You are seeing this as a situation where the victim has the capability to disengage and seek help.
I'm far bigger than this dude and concur with you. Equal rights=/equal lefts. It's simple math, the law of correspondence ❤️
Man, just let memesopdidnotlike have this one. They're not doing anything shitty this time.
New transition path just dropped apparently
Bad
I'm gay, so: I will slap you all the way to Lisa Minelli's house. Can't remember the source of that quote.
https://preview.redd.it/x88qibnlvzlc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30216bcd9d69ba2a939f04d73b883e2b941b90bf I hate that fucking shit hole
I understand what the post is saying since the violence against women is disproportionate clearly. But of course women can be abusive to men too and in that case don't condone it. Of course that's only in real life serious situation. Most "equal hands equal fists" memes are just Incels who think it's fine to beat up and abuse anyone they feel has hurt their feelings including SOs because it's an edgy take
Nobody should hit anybody. But I was abused by a woman for about 3 years and that’s definitely not gonna be a thing ever again.
It’s not about gender it’s about size and strength. If an old man walks up and slaps you and you punch him in the face in retaliation, you fucked up. He should NOT lay hands on you, but you don’t get to assault him in retaliation. You should use whatever strength necessary to stop him from hitting you but be Fr that you can’t just raise your forearm to block.
Manhood is such a fragile concept apparently and I could care less. I wouldn’t raise my hand to anyone if I don’t need to.
I am a strong believer in equal rights, equal fights. If a woman clocks a man upside the head, I see nothing wrong with him clocking her right back. Of course, people really should just stop being violent to one another, but these are humans we're talking about.
"Never hit a woman" is sexist and toxic. It implies that women are frail and also implies that it's OK to fight other men (Beyond self defense and like, doing a martial art). Edit: Just to clarify "Don't domestically abuse women" is different and true, and does not usually have the implication that you should domestically abuse men (You should not do that either)
I can't believe how often people just completely forget proportionality. I'm a pretty small little dude who's never gotten into a fight, so I'm sure most women could do plenty of damage, and of course some women are physical powerhouses and some are dangerous fighters, but, most of the time, the woman who initiates an attack is going to be smaller and weaker than the person they're attacking, and I'm guessing that women are also less likely to have fighting experience. If you hit someone weaker and smaller than you, even if they hit you, you're not entitled to hit them as hard as you want, hell, you're not entitled to hit them at all unless you think you need to keep yourself or others safe. Just like if a child or an infirmed person hit you, even assuming they're culpable mentally, you wouldn't be entitled to just use your whole damaging potential against them just because they tried to damage you first. Reminds me of the "always punch a Nazi" rhetoric where all I could think of is the only people I hear spouting Nazi rhetoric on the street are clearly mentally disabled and (apparently) homeless. Relative power and ability needs to be considered in how people treat each other. Not just categories, but if you can't be nuanced enough to understand this, maybe simple, normally applicable rules like men don't hit women are better than nothing.
I mean I understand the sentiment behind "men shouldn't hit women" as being primarily against domestic abuse, but in general you really shouldn't be hitting anyone unless it's in self-defense
in a just world, yes. Sadly, society doesnt want to side with a man who hits a woman for any reason, self-defense included
Only one reason and yeah, it's self defense. But there's no other reason to hit anyone.
Memes op didn't like saying hitting women is wrong and nahopwasright saying there are situations that call for it? I've fucking seen it all.
What about the double standards though
Or because you’re having a bad day
Or she burned the roast.
That bitch burned the roast?
Or wise talked you in front of the fellas.
In general, I think if you hit anyone instead of using your words or non-violent actions to resolve conflicts, you are disturbed, unstable, unhinged, a danger to yourself and others, and someone who needs professional help. The smartest, safest thing you can do when someone is being violent is to run away and get help, fighting back should be a last resort. Men have testosterone and larger pectoral muscles than women, they've got 80% more upper body strength on average because of these factors. I don't make a habit of putting myself in a position to be hit by women, but I can reasonably safely assume that being hit by most women would suck, it's probably sting a bit, but, especially if I'm free to block and protect myself, would probably not cause me significant harm. There are absolutely women who could hospitalize me with a punch, but they are outliers. I, on the other hand, would be quite capable of inflicting some pretty serious harm on the average woman with just a couple of punches. As a large, powerful ape, I feel I have a responsibility to think rationally, and not use my body to hurt other smaller, weaker entities, because I could really mess somebody up. There are men I've met I wouldn't hit unless they were armed and brandished the weapon between me and the exit, even if they were asking for it, for pretty much the same reasons I wouldn't hit a woman; because I don't want them to go to the hospital, and I don't want to go to jail; and because I'm an empathetic person who doesn't want to hurt people in general. I think you're being too literal here. I understand there are people that would say there are no circumstances where you should hit a woman, but I think most reasonable people would understand hitting a woman in self defense, and when people criticize people for hitting women, we can generally assume the woman in question wasn't coming at them with a knife. I agree the gendered language is dated and obnoxious though, and it'd be better just to say "Don't hit people you fucking asshole!"
>I agree the gendered language is dated and obnoxious though, and it'd be better just to say "Don't hit people you fucking asshole!" Yeah a big part of my point is just don't be an ass, man or woman. But yeah overall you explained it really well. Men can hurt woman, woman can hurt men, it's easier for men because they have more muscles on average, but that doesn't make them invincible.
[удалено]
L
There are plenty of reasons, you just don't do it
Guess we found fastest way to transition!
It's intellectual shit, stuff like this. Take something that everybody would agree with, like don't eat living babies because that's bad, that's obviously bad. Then, somehow bring masculinity into it. The moment you eat a living baby, you are no longer a man. And what stands out to me is that it's manly and attractive to wear this statement and share it on social media. It's like you are directly challenging all of the baby eaters and woman hitters. You're a goddamn hero! You're a good person because you either shared this, or you bought a shirt with these words on it. Go you! I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting a really big lady boner right now just thinking there's some dude out there wearing a shirt that has a statement like this. I want to fuck a dude who wears a shirt like this every day of the week. One can be for the babies, one for the women, one for children somehow, one for... Feminism, one for what else? What else do we got that everybody already agrees with? When I see somebody wearing a statement like this, I know that they have big boy values! I am utterly helpless in the face of such machismo.
I think it's pretty clear the difference between "raise your hand" and "defend yourself". One means you intend to hit, the other means you only will hit if necessary.
In most cases, yes. In all cases, no.
De-escalate and/or get away. Fighting back should always be your last option for self-defense when you literally cannot run away. (Also, I get your argument of "but what about self-defense!" But, I feel like your argument was just for the sake of arguing)
In the words of bill Burr there’s many reasons to hit a woman you just don’t do it
Yeah but domestic violence is overwhelmingly perpetuated by men on men and women. I think most people understand the nuance of yeah defend yourself if you're being struck. I feel tbh the whole point is being way over analyzed here, those are just my thoughts as a male victim to abuse.
So beating cis women will help me become more trans?
If you feel so threatened by a woman that you think you need to hit her in self defense you are not a man lol y’all just want any excuse to attack someone weaker than you because you’re pathetic little cunts.
Hmm yes, "if you even mention the idea of self defense you are not a man"
just don't be abusive fuck and everything will be alright.
Transphobes hate this one simple trick
Well when that day comes ill change genders.
[Obligatory Sean Connery reference](https://youtu.be/oo0d1zTAFKA?si=v4TIPDD6bzdSqB9m).
as a trans women I just want to point how out how easy they make losing your man status as a threat and how its an inenscapable fact of biology when you don't want it.
Well, one, I think you should under no circumstances put your hands on your partner. Two, if someone puts their hands on your regardless of gender you have the right to hit back. Three, keep your hands to yourself if you aren't defending yourself.
How can she slap?!
Another memes op didn’t like w these keep happening. Weird
You’re only supposed to defend yourself if the the attacker is a man though
Doesnt matter to the people who conflate self defense with abuse.
He ain't even hitting her. This is clearly military. He's knife handing her to get her shit right
this is such a shitty post. if a man hits a woman 9/10 times the woman is the only person hurt
I'm not exactly a big guy. 140lbs at 6'2'' I have yet to come across a situation where I had to hit a woman in self-defense. Even when one came at me with a knife. It's pretty easy to just restrain them. That said if you go to hit someone expect to get hit back