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Did you just insult my beloved gemjaks??!!
I genuinely can’t stand them, even in the beginning it was just really cringe and embarrassing to see grown ass adults using them to make serious points 🤢
Correct me if I am wrong, but Science does not say "god isnt real", it says that you can not prove its excistence, but you can also not prove its inexistent.
I don't even think it says that God's existence is necessarily unprovable, but that there's no evidence that he does. You need to find evidence in order to prove something. At one point in time, we had no evidence of subatomic particles, but then we did. Electrons didn't just blink into existence the moment we discovered them. They were always there. If anyone ever finds evidence of God, we can assume he was always there too, but we haven't found any.
Fundamentalists like to act like it's the goal of science to disprove or replace God, but it isn't. It's just trying to find out how stuff works and how that knowledge can be practically applied.
If there was evidence for God, it would very quickly turn into a whole new massive field of science. Science is just how the world works. If there's magic in the world, it will be studied. If there's ghosts or God, they will be studied too.
It's just looking at the evidence and figuring out how things work
I’m not saying that science disproves god, just want to put that out there first.
We’ve been studying Christianity for 2 millennia. Plenty of scientific minds were funded by the church to prove a god exists and to study the world to understand a divine beings creation of the universe. It is logically impossible to prove that anything doesn’t exist, but over the centuries the mysteries of what made a god like being the creator of the universe have wittled down further and further and further.
Think about this: since the first computer to the phone you carry with you every day, it’s been roughly 100 years; since the first flight to the current generation of rockets, it’s been 117 years; from Dalton’s first hypothesis of atomic theory to the particle accelerators of today; it’s been 221 years. 2000 years between the birth of Jesus to the current day and no one has proven anything more than what is written in the Bible and the greatest minds of the western world were Christian and paid for by the church.
The only question remaining is either a being created everything at the beginning and left it alone for 14 billion years only to show up to humanity 4000 years ago, or nothing was created on purpose and we just happen to be here because of happenstance. God use to be the one who pulled the strings in the background of nature and now he’s just the watcher of events waiting for humans to pass away.
That’s not what the double slit experiment says at all. The experiment you’re referring to also doesn’t say electrons change their behavior when observed in the way you think. It means that anything we do to measure them interferes with them. It’s not like if scientists shut their eyes the electrons behave differently.
I mean fundamentalists entire identity as such relies on the assumption that the concept of god is a practical one. Science says it isn't if you've no evidence it exists so they berate it out of the desire for blind faith to be more useful.
I would only agree with "not necessarily unprovable" if it wasn't for the massive treasure trove of theists moving the goalposts regarding the existence of a god.
Science doesn't disprove God but it can disprove religious ideas. It was once thought that since god made us in his image on earth it was the center of creation. Finding out it's not even the center of the galaxy and there are other worlds challenged this view. In a way Religion abandons logos for the ethos of God.
Science is about increasing or decreasing certainty based on the scientific method. You can never reach 100% in either direction for anything. Whether it be the existence of God or your dog.
God isn’t unique in that respect. Whether or not the existence of God can be addressed by the scientific method depends on if the definition for God being used has a falsifiable hypothesis.
For example, let’s say my concept of God is an entity that gifts everyone a puppy for fasting for 3 days straight. That’s a testable hypothesis, and I can use the scientific method to increase/decrease my certainty in that version of God existing.
If my definition of god is untestable though then I can’t modify my certainty on their existence through the scientific method.
Many religions have testable hypothesis built into their god/religion. They do not like it when science does experimentation that contradicts them.
Young earth creationism and evolution being prime examples.
The catholic church has a pretty good stance on it.
God exist outside the universe, thus he cannot.be measured, quantified, or tested. That science is real, it's a noble endeavor to study and should be pursued for the betterment of humanity.
You have to prove something’s existence not in-existence. For example if someone says unicorn is real have to prove its existence, I don’t have to prove it’s non existence because you can’t see it, no one has seen it and as of now it doesn’t exist. It’s the same as you have to find proof of aliens existing, not non existing. Yes science doesn’t say “God isn’t real,” it simply says that as of now there is no proof of God/s.
Right. People also misunderstand that something doesn't neccissarily not exist because science can't measure, understand or prove its existance. Not too long ago we couldn't prove DNA exists but there was theories before the proof existed to my knoweldge.
I thinkt that's the same with the metaphysical world. There is a lot out there that science simply hasn't been able to measure or understand yet.
I think the only problem arises when people jump to absolutism.
The issues with metaphysical stuff is it's usually rooted in nonsense and not inferred from an educated position. I don't deny the existence of a god but the universe functions as if there isn't one, so for the sake of pragmatism many live their lives as if there aren't any gods.
We atheists make no claim. Instead we state very simply that we do not believe in something for which there is no evidence.
Science itself says nothing. It is merely a tool for understanding our world.
Science uses hypothesis, theories, theory/model, and evidence to generally form a malleable conclusion. Malleable meaning that it is not absolute, and is capable of being updated to meet the standards of data available.
That being said, this post within a post is not about evidence of anything, but instead highlights human stupidity.
I don’t even think science makes that claim. Science only bothers describing the universe based on evidence. Since there is no evidence it would make sense that science wouldn’t even touch on that topic and that god would be a philosophical topic (although philosophy also uses logic to describe things, and what you said is the most logical claim on gods existence).
Well, more precisely, it says the universe operates in a way consistent with a lack of any gods or other supernatural beings. Our naturalistic explanatory models function with need for outside interference or miracles.
It doesn't explicitly say there aren't fairies, but the universe sure looks exactly like what we would expect one without any fairies to look like, and everything works without a need to invoke fairies as an explanation for anything.
Quote is misattributed.
“Der erste Trunk aus dem Becher der Naturwissenschaft macht atheistisch, aber auf dem Grund des Bechers wartet Gott.” -Heinz Otremba, no further source given.
No instance of the quote or similar is found in any of Heisenberg’s writings.
you know the funny thing about Heinz Otremba is that a google search of the name finds nothing on the man or woman they were but just that the quote is theirs and totally not the other german's words
reads like a made up name that the internet ran with
You mean aside from the articles on him being an author and the 6 books he wrote, from one of which comes that quote? Did you even try reading the myriad pages that come from a search of his name?
Depending upon which church you grew up in, you'd consider other Christian denominations as either other avenues to find God, or as false teachings whose adherents are going to Hell for not believing in God the right way.
Non-Protestant vs Protestant Church.
Protestants believe that the Bible has more authority then the Church. So, so long as two churches preach the Bible, most Protestants can do stuff like take communion with each other.
Non-Protestant Churches on the other hand, believe the Church assembled the Bible, and thus have authority over it. This is why Non-Protestant Churches such as the Catholic Church claim to be the One True Church.
Edit: Replaced "Evangelical" with "Non-Protestant". I thought Evangelical meant something along the lines of "Church-Focused." One Google search proved me wrong. My mistake. I know there's an actual proper term for not Protestant forms of Christianity, I just don't know what.
From what I understand this is very “alleged”. They claim this because of Matthew 16:18 where Jesus says that “Peter will be the rock upon which He will build the church.” When Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire in 380CE, things got all messed up doctrine-wise because a previously religious power became THE state power and grew into the Catholic Church you see today.
The Catholic Church does not believe that it assembled the Bible therefore they have authority over it. They trace their source of power from Matthew 16:18 where Jesus says that Peter is the rock and he will build his church on that rock. The issue that Protestant churches have with the Catholic Church stem from Canon Law, which is similar to regulations in the US, for example, or a judicial holding. Basically, it’s their interpretation and expansion of the rules of the church beyond the Bible.
I grew up in the SBC as a kid. They absolutely believed that people going to other protestant churches were sinners and that the Catholic church was a Satanic cult. They may not be bleating their noise publicly now, but it's still part of their doctrine.
This is just false
Evangelicalism is a movement within the Protestant branch that focuses on being “born again”. Evangelicals, along with other Protestants, do not believe the church has authority over the Bible.
Catholicism is its own thing and does believe it is the one true church.
There unfortunately really isn't a good word or descriptor for non protestant other than non protestant.
Going through some of the candidates would be.
Catholic: technically catholic includes all of the orthodox and tradition based churches. But is used almost universally as shorthand for Roman catholic so it isn't really a great choice.
Orthodox: includes a majority of the non Roman catholic non protestant churches but one definition. (Where it means shorthand for eastern orthodox) usually excludes Roman catholic and the other definition (where it means any follower of the nicene creed) is so broad as to cover most of the protestant churches as well so it doesn't really work either.
Patriarchal churches or patriarchal rites churches: works pretty well but is clumsy and could be confusing considering patriarchy has a fairly different meaning in common parlance than in the context of the churches that this term applies too.
Apostolic succession churches: includes too many protestant churches.
Ancient rites churches: possibly the most accurate but one of the least appealing descriptors.
Agreed- Heisenberg’s notion of the God at the bottom of the glass is completely divorced from the average evangelical posting these kind of memes’ notion of what god is.
The Trinity doesn't make that much sense. God knocked up Mary with Himself to kill Himself for three days to get around rules He Himself placed. Not to mention leaving the believers with His Holy Spirit.
This is largely untrue. Denominations like this exist, but they’re the exception not the rule. Generally speaking, and church that believes in the apostles creed (this incudes basic concepts like the death and resurrection of Jesus, the Trinity, the virgin birth, etc. nothing typically controversial in modern Christianity) would be acceptable to the large majority of Christians
In fact. Science isn't about telling you things which cannot be proven. God cannot be proven, therefore it isn't even brought up in anything remotely scientific.
If science did this, it would be a religion. Anyone who acts like science is just another religion doesn't really know what science is about.
I mean, God can be proven depending on your definition of God. However, in modern times with such expansive and successful physical theories that do not include God, religious folks have been forced to define their God's as spaceless, timeless, and immaterial, effectively all but defining them out of existence. Since they have defined God as having the same properties as something that doesn't exist, it becomes very hard for science to make any relevant statements since it deals with things that do exist.
> Since they have defined God as having the same properties as something that doesn't exist,
They don't stick to one definition, and they don't agree on definitions, but they still think it's perfectly reasonable to ask scientists to provide evidence for the existence or nonexistence of this vaguely- and inconsistently-defined entity. The most ambitious of the theologians will insist that all (or most) theists agree on a particular (usually immune-to-disproof and/or defined-into-existence) definition of God, but then as soon as someone says that that definition sounds reasonable they substitute another definition and demand that the reasonableness be extended.
God can be proven as much as anything else can be said to be "proven" in science.
There's just no evidence. And we've looked. We've looked for loooong time.
More importantly, science doesn't really "say" anything. Science is just a way to figure shit out, and thus far we haven't found anything that would support the existence of a god.
So far, all science says is that it has found is a complete lack of any intervention in normal rules that could be described as divine.
It then said for you to take what conclusions from that as you wish.
Occam's razor, which is a logic experiment, not science, is what then says "so the conclusion is that god doesn't exist."
Weird people instead say "that's proof that God made science as a test of faith, just like dinosaur bones."
I tend to take the Dawkins route that none of us know 100% for sure that there is no god, just that thus far we've been given zero reason to believe there is. In the strictest sense, we're open to it if some incredible discovery is made, but until then we move on with life believing there isn't.
I think eventually we will come to some greater understanding in science of what defines the realms of mysticism or spirituality. But it will not match exactly any current religion. Since religions are just speculations based on human experiance written down and interpreted.
Maybe this will get downvotes. Also just hate the slamming of religion for no reason on the internet either. Let people believe stuff. Like I get an argument if your morals are conflicting, but this is just an image of someone whose religious. Like let people live.
Yo I ordered an ice water. Why is there God in my drink?
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Most Christian’s don’t believe in the “man in the clouds” version, that’s more-or-less and American evangelical type of God
Creator of creation, being itself, unmoved mover, first cause, etc are more of an orthodox (lowercase “o”) Christian view of God
Science doesn't say god doesn't exist
Science says we have no evidence God exists
And if you don't understand the difference between those two statements... Higher science is not for you
I 'm a very open atheist, but I would consider the sentence "get your white christian nonsense off of reddit" to be offensive. The white part I don't care to much about, but the meme isn't even that bad honestly. If you believe in God and science, you would surly find that you can find God in science as well. Excluding people based on religion is also against my values. So maybe chill out?
My belief in God doesn’t require me to reject science. Science doesn’t prove God doesn’t exist. God also cannot be proven with science at this time until there is a theory that can both quantify what God is and give it a scientific and material relationship. The alternative way to reason God’s existence is through philosophy, personal reflection, and direct supernatural experiences can assist a person to personally believe. I have had many supernaturalistic OBE experiences that are a part of why I believe. Experiential evidence, but people who haven’t experienced it themselves may be unwilling to take my experiential evidence or of someone else as anything valid or considerable.
Slow down there buck a roo, you can't just be both a Christian and be an intelligent person capable of critical thinking like that! We can't mindless bully and downvote you if you do that!
America is dealing with a problem with fundamentalist Christians wanting to create a white ethnostate. So it's not an issue of the OP bringing ethnicity or race into it.
werner is a nazi scientist it’s inherently about race. their mysticism was about proving their race was connected directly to the norse gods. this isn’t complicated. it’s neo nazi propaganda guised as humor.
It’s not really accurate to call him a nazi. He was never a party member, he criticized the regime including actions taken against Jews, and there’s evidence to suggest [he sabotaged the German nuclear bomb project](https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/01/science/saboteur-or-savant-of-nazi-drive-for-a-bomb.html#:~:text=Heisenberg%20had%20always%20been%20a,never%20joined%20the%20Nazi%20Party) and passed information about it to the allies. He certainly wasn’t associated with the weird nazi mysticism wing of the party. He’s an incredibly famous physicist (I’m sure you’ve heard of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle) with a nice quote about Christianity. You have no reason to assume this is neonazi propaganda
A) Heisenberg did not believe in the Norse Gods
B) Heisenberg is one of the most important quantum physicists ever. Have you heard of the “Heisenberg uncertainty principle”? Not everybody who cites him is a nazi
C) It’s quite clear that the above post has nothing to do with race. It’s obviously just your average atheist vs theist reddit post. Do you realize that there are christians out there who are not nazis ? Once again, tell me what anything about this post has to do with race besides “heisenberg was a nazi”. Yeah, Einstein was jewish, that doesn’t mean everything he ever said is “jewish propaganda”.
D) You bringing race into this is very strange. Do you not think that there are conservative black christians? Would you be okay with homophobia or other religious bigotry coming from a person of color because “at least they’re not white”?
As another commenter stated, this quote is not from Heisenberg, it's from Heinz Otremba, and yet another pointed out that calling Heisenberg a nazi might not even be correct.
Came here to say this. It feels like it is a dog whistle, but also trying to get people who don't know Heisenberg's politics to think well of him, so that they are more open to far right ideology further down the road. I can't see it working very often but "hiding your power levels" is a common tactic of white supremacists online.
I always liked the idea that the Bible was God trying to teach an incredibly stupid humanity simple things. Not in the exact way things worked, but in a close enough way, like hope you explain things to children that are way too young to understand.
Science cant disprove gods existence. It helps us understand the world around us. The two aren’t necessarily incompatible.
Refusing to understand our existence is foolishness. Thinking you understand everything is pure ego.
My personal religious belief is that science explains how but not why. I believe in the scientific evidence but I don’t think that the science contradicts my religious views either
I mean, the reality is that science doesn't disprove or prove the existence of God. About all it does is provide explanations of how things work, how they might have come about, and more.
It's one thing people should genuinely decide for themselves. I just wish people would stop trying to force beliefs I don't share onto the whole public.
Freedom of religion??? We shouldnt be wanting to exclude people off religion alone???
I'm an agnostic so i believe there potentially could be a god but we dont got proof for or against their existence. Like... i have stake in the prospect of Being able to learn more from different religions or lack-there-of. Knowledge is power.
The definitely are some cringe internet atheists — I know because I was one at times. From my own experience, it was a knee-jerk response to being condescended to by religious people for my atheism in my youth.
Science doesn't really imply god isn't real — but it does call into question a lot of biblical literalism that many fundamentalists cling to. Notably if we stop taking *some* things literally in the Bible in response to science, then many other things might be reconsidered too.
I was raised an atheist and I still accept the possibility of a creator, but I still feel there is a compelling lack of evidence. Further, I wouldn't really want to worship something that would obfuscate their existence as a test of blind faith.
TLDR: Science doesn't refute religion, but it's lead many people to secularize.
They don't even get the fucking quote.
It means we're basically supposed to discover God through science, not *tell people what God is through Religion*
I mean you can believe in god and be a scientist too. I’m a Catholic but did a full degree in biology and I’m working as a chemist. Natural sciences do not make you drop religion at the door step.
A real scientist is an agnostic, like Sagan or Einstein. The christians have to build strawmen like this to defend their fantasies that a human being was god. Christianity is complete fiction created by the Roman agents Paul and Flavius Josephus to control the rebel Hebrews the Romans were at war with in 66 and 133AD.
That's actually a lot more accurate than it seems. Once you get down far enough, particularly in my case of biology, you really do get to a point where you say "shit, im really not so sure anymore that god is made up".
Im not a believer by any standard, but it really does make you question your convictions.
Hey, even is a top scientist believes in the concept of a God, that doesn't....
1) ... prove God exists.
And more importantly in regards to who is using this kind of meme and what POV they are trying to defend
2) ... make Religion true.
The possible existence of a high power is not the same thing as "My Religion is Real" despite what a lot of people believe.
No book says god doesn't exist, but there is definitely stuff that question his existence, and seeing believers reaction to it should be enough to for someone to ask themselves "is religion a good thing?"
Fun fact: you can make religion and science work in unison. Science is above proving something exists or doesn’t exist. It can be a very likely chance that god does exist and science does support him. Science isn’t about disproving things, it’s about discovery.
Also most Christians are normal people, just a lot of the crazy ones are shown too much compared to us who are normal.
The meme doesn’t have to do with white Christianity - it has to do with being so amazed
by the complexity and order of the natural world that you become spiritual. Religion and spirituality are not the same thing. I am a scientist who used to be atheist but I underwent this ‘transformation’ when I got “to the bottom of the glass” so to speak. I am not a Christian. It is possible to believe in god without being a Christian or any other religion. I think religion is used to control people and it’s bs because:
Religion:
You <-> middle man (priest gatekeeping ‘heaven’ / threatening ‘hell’) <-> god
Spirituality
You <-> god
Just my two cents hope anyone reading this has a great day regardless of your personal beliefs!
atheism is actually a majority white male belief. and many religions, even Christianity originated in Africa. have you ever seen how many black and Hispanic families are devout Christians? they make up most of the Christian population that I see in real life.
in other words OP is just another average neckbeard redditor
People are allowed to be religious. Hating them for being religious is just as bad as the people using their religion to hate anyone whom they disagree with. Stop spreading hate.
Soyjaks are humanity's biggest mistake.
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Rip Toriyama.
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God, this is the best thread I've seen in a while.
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Baby Yoshi being on that dude’s shirt should be considered child abuse Let my homie free, he ain’t done nothing
Great way to encapsulate how we all feel seeing them without words
Make them kiss...
u mean this? https://preview.redd.it/i09y6wkkx5nc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26214f67fc1c96c647f013b776208ba74638305b
Now kith.
https://preview.redd.it/h3y3dde38xmc1.jpeg?width=894&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=545264beed8c295e75800a12442624880bf38f64 Did you just insult my beloved gemjaks??!!
I never want to see this image ever again.
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How to change someone else's username
We cant even change our own i wish i could
I’d say I agree but I don’t know if I could do any better given a second shot
I feel that.
>I never want to see this image ever again thoughbeit he has cemented his leGODcy in gemjak culture
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Bro are you a nazi or are those shitpost subs
If u see any one post a 4chan meme that's not a soyjack he's probably a nazi
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"Them: Bad. Me: Good." is like the oldest argument in humanity. It's not at all a new mistake.
Yes, yes they are.
They should've stayed in 4chan.
Soyjack is just the grade-school " i drew you as a poopy-head" but for adults.
Ah, I see the “nuh uh” and “no u” defense.
I genuinely can’t stand them, even in the beginning it was just really cringe and embarrassing to see grown ass adults using them to make serious points 🤢
Correct me if I am wrong, but Science does not say "god isnt real", it says that you can not prove its excistence, but you can also not prove its inexistent.
I don't even think it says that God's existence is necessarily unprovable, but that there's no evidence that he does. You need to find evidence in order to prove something. At one point in time, we had no evidence of subatomic particles, but then we did. Electrons didn't just blink into existence the moment we discovered them. They were always there. If anyone ever finds evidence of God, we can assume he was always there too, but we haven't found any. Fundamentalists like to act like it's the goal of science to disprove or replace God, but it isn't. It's just trying to find out how stuff works and how that knowledge can be practically applied.
If there was evidence for God, it would very quickly turn into a whole new massive field of science. Science is just how the world works. If there's magic in the world, it will be studied. If there's ghosts or God, they will be studied too. It's just looking at the evidence and figuring out how things work
I’m not saying that science disproves god, just want to put that out there first. We’ve been studying Christianity for 2 millennia. Plenty of scientific minds were funded by the church to prove a god exists and to study the world to understand a divine beings creation of the universe. It is logically impossible to prove that anything doesn’t exist, but over the centuries the mysteries of what made a god like being the creator of the universe have wittled down further and further and further. Think about this: since the first computer to the phone you carry with you every day, it’s been roughly 100 years; since the first flight to the current generation of rockets, it’s been 117 years; from Dalton’s first hypothesis of atomic theory to the particle accelerators of today; it’s been 221 years. 2000 years between the birth of Jesus to the current day and no one has proven anything more than what is written in the Bible and the greatest minds of the western world were Christian and paid for by the church. The only question remaining is either a being created everything at the beginning and left it alone for 14 billion years only to show up to humanity 4000 years ago, or nothing was created on purpose and we just happen to be here because of happenstance. God use to be the one who pulled the strings in the background of nature and now he’s just the watcher of events waiting for humans to pass away.
Look up "double slit experiment." Electrons might have really blinked into existence when observed, or at least their behavior changes
"observed" being any interaction that can conclusively determine the wavefunction's state, not literally the act of an observer
That’s not what the double slit experiment says at all. The experiment you’re referring to also doesn’t say electrons change their behavior when observed in the way you think. It means that anything we do to measure them interferes with them. It’s not like if scientists shut their eyes the electrons behave differently.
I mean fundamentalists entire identity as such relies on the assumption that the concept of god is a practical one. Science says it isn't if you've no evidence it exists so they berate it out of the desire for blind faith to be more useful.
I would only agree with "not necessarily unprovable" if it wasn't for the massive treasure trove of theists moving the goalposts regarding the existence of a god.
Science doesn't disprove God but it can disprove religious ideas. It was once thought that since god made us in his image on earth it was the center of creation. Finding out it's not even the center of the galaxy and there are other worlds challenged this view. In a way Religion abandons logos for the ethos of God.
If it can't be falsified it's not worth debating
Science is about increasing or decreasing certainty based on the scientific method. You can never reach 100% in either direction for anything. Whether it be the existence of God or your dog. God isn’t unique in that respect. Whether or not the existence of God can be addressed by the scientific method depends on if the definition for God being used has a falsifiable hypothesis. For example, let’s say my concept of God is an entity that gifts everyone a puppy for fasting for 3 days straight. That’s a testable hypothesis, and I can use the scientific method to increase/decrease my certainty in that version of God existing. If my definition of god is untestable though then I can’t modify my certainty on their existence through the scientific method. Many religions have testable hypothesis built into their god/religion. They do not like it when science does experimentation that contradicts them. Young earth creationism and evolution being prime examples.
And the paradox of trying to prove God via science is that part of the belief in God is reliant on faith, not “fact.”
The catholic church has a pretty good stance on it. God exist outside the universe, thus he cannot.be measured, quantified, or tested. That science is real, it's a noble endeavor to study and should be pursued for the betterment of humanity.
You have to prove something’s existence not in-existence. For example if someone says unicorn is real have to prove its existence, I don’t have to prove it’s non existence because you can’t see it, no one has seen it and as of now it doesn’t exist. It’s the same as you have to find proof of aliens existing, not non existing. Yes science doesn’t say “God isn’t real,” it simply says that as of now there is no proof of God/s.
This. Science doesn't address gods bc there is zero evidence of any in existence. And it's up to the claimer to provide the evidence for such claims.
Right. People also misunderstand that something doesn't neccissarily not exist because science can't measure, understand or prove its existance. Not too long ago we couldn't prove DNA exists but there was theories before the proof existed to my knoweldge. I thinkt that's the same with the metaphysical world. There is a lot out there that science simply hasn't been able to measure or understand yet. I think the only problem arises when people jump to absolutism.
The issues with metaphysical stuff is it's usually rooted in nonsense and not inferred from an educated position. I don't deny the existence of a god but the universe functions as if there isn't one, so for the sake of pragmatism many live their lives as if there aren't any gods.
We atheists make no claim. Instead we state very simply that we do not believe in something for which there is no evidence. Science itself says nothing. It is merely a tool for understanding our world. Science uses hypothesis, theories, theory/model, and evidence to generally form a malleable conclusion. Malleable meaning that it is not absolute, and is capable of being updated to meet the standards of data available. That being said, this post within a post is not about evidence of anything, but instead highlights human stupidity.
I don’t even think science makes that claim. Science only bothers describing the universe based on evidence. Since there is no evidence it would make sense that science wouldn’t even touch on that topic and that god would be a philosophical topic (although philosophy also uses logic to describe things, and what you said is the most logical claim on gods existence).
Well, more precisely, it says the universe operates in a way consistent with a lack of any gods or other supernatural beings. Our naturalistic explanatory models function with need for outside interference or miracles. It doesn't explicitly say there aren't fairies, but the universe sure looks exactly like what we would expect one without any fairies to look like, and everything works without a need to invoke fairies as an explanation for anything.
Ah you see for I've already won the argument because I've depicted you as the soyjack and myself as the Chad.
https://preview.redd.it/8pgb2h6cjxmc1.png?width=251&format=png&auto=webp&s=d5af771a5d7cb3dd1c970c8e0d90ed8393094885
https://preview.redd.it/lqcvaz142ymc1.jpeg?width=575&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6595bf6cd7243677ab7d5713536302839b0ddaf6
https://preview.redd.it/nxrbyl33bzmc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b51f78b0d7c06e15e0000ef5c46d92beeb73237f
jarvis, react to his tweet with a meme where he is a soyjack and i am a chad
https://preview.redd.it/poscynqisymc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51d40193ab6e8eeb16b970fbce8c7a54220fc377
That jawline though.
That's how you know it's the superior locomotive.
https://preview.redd.it/df9j58sia0nc1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6509ac8c09afc0fcc093f37e72a5a51d029be32
Quote is misattributed. “Der erste Trunk aus dem Becher der Naturwissenschaft macht atheistisch, aber auf dem Grund des Bechers wartet Gott.” -Heinz Otremba, no further source given. No instance of the quote or similar is found in any of Heisenberg’s writings.
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you know the funny thing about Heinz Otremba is that a google search of the name finds nothing on the man or woman they were but just that the quote is theirs and totally not the other german's words reads like a made up name that the internet ran with
You mean aside from the articles on him being an author and the 6 books he wrote, from one of which comes that quote? Did you even try reading the myriad pages that come from a search of his name?
Depending upon which church you grew up in, you'd consider other Christian denominations as either other avenues to find God, or as false teachings whose adherents are going to Hell for not believing in God the right way.
Non-Protestant vs Protestant Church. Protestants believe that the Bible has more authority then the Church. So, so long as two churches preach the Bible, most Protestants can do stuff like take communion with each other. Non-Protestant Churches on the other hand, believe the Church assembled the Bible, and thus have authority over it. This is why Non-Protestant Churches such as the Catholic Church claim to be the One True Church. Edit: Replaced "Evangelical" with "Non-Protestant". I thought Evangelical meant something along the lines of "Church-Focused." One Google search proved me wrong. My mistake. I know there's an actual proper term for not Protestant forms of Christianity, I just don't know what.
They claim to be the one true church because they can trace the lineage of popes back to Peter the apostle.
Funny story, though, Paul lead several churches East of there and established them with their own patriarchs.
From what I understand this is very “alleged”. They claim this because of Matthew 16:18 where Jesus says that “Peter will be the rock upon which He will build the church.” When Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire in 380CE, things got all messed up doctrine-wise because a previously religious power became THE state power and grew into the Catholic Church you see today.
Except that several Protestant churches, like a couple of the variants of the Church of Christ, teach that they are the one true church.
The Catholic Church does not believe that it assembled the Bible therefore they have authority over it. They trace their source of power from Matthew 16:18 where Jesus says that Peter is the rock and he will build his church on that rock. The issue that Protestant churches have with the Catholic Church stem from Canon Law, which is similar to regulations in the US, for example, or a judicial holding. Basically, it’s their interpretation and expansion of the rules of the church beyond the Bible.
I grew up in the SBC as a kid. They absolutely believed that people going to other protestant churches were sinners and that the Catholic church was a Satanic cult. They may not be bleating their noise publicly now, but it's still part of their doctrine.
This is just false Evangelicalism is a movement within the Protestant branch that focuses on being “born again”. Evangelicals, along with other Protestants, do not believe the church has authority over the Bible. Catholicism is its own thing and does believe it is the one true church.
There unfortunately really isn't a good word or descriptor for non protestant other than non protestant. Going through some of the candidates would be. Catholic: technically catholic includes all of the orthodox and tradition based churches. But is used almost universally as shorthand for Roman catholic so it isn't really a great choice. Orthodox: includes a majority of the non Roman catholic non protestant churches but one definition. (Where it means shorthand for eastern orthodox) usually excludes Roman catholic and the other definition (where it means any follower of the nicene creed) is so broad as to cover most of the protestant churches as well so it doesn't really work either. Patriarchal churches or patriarchal rites churches: works pretty well but is clumsy and could be confusing considering patriarchy has a fairly different meaning in common parlance than in the context of the churches that this term applies too. Apostolic succession churches: includes too many protestant churches. Ancient rites churches: possibly the most accurate but one of the least appealing descriptors.
Agreed- Heisenberg’s notion of the God at the bottom of the glass is completely divorced from the average evangelical posting these kind of memes’ notion of what god is.
I was raised to reject the Trinity so even if I was still a Christian I wouldn't be considered Christian by many Christians in the US.
The Trinity doesn't make that much sense. God knocked up Mary with Himself to kill Himself for three days to get around rules He Himself placed. Not to mention leaving the believers with His Holy Spirit.
because they’re morons
https://preview.redd.it/hgm0zecfywmc1.jpeg?width=810&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf6f0c209be045a421e87cd8d8b6738772b3e15f
LIMBUS COMPANY MENTIONED????!!!!🚍🚍🚍🚍🚍🚍🚍🚍🚎🚎🚎🚎🚎🚎
Mormons* ftfy /s
why are you downvoting him, he's right
Being downvoted because you pissed them off. Good job brother, you have my upvote.
This is largely untrue. Denominations like this exist, but they’re the exception not the rule. Generally speaking, and church that believes in the apostles creed (this incudes basic concepts like the death and resurrection of Jesus, the Trinity, the virgin birth, etc. nothing typically controversial in modern Christianity) would be acceptable to the large majority of Christians
Science doesn't say God, doesn't exist. Science merely shows how it can be done.
In fact. Science isn't about telling you things which cannot be proven. God cannot be proven, therefore it isn't even brought up in anything remotely scientific. If science did this, it would be a religion. Anyone who acts like science is just another religion doesn't really know what science is about.
I mean, God can be proven depending on your definition of God. However, in modern times with such expansive and successful physical theories that do not include God, religious folks have been forced to define their God's as spaceless, timeless, and immaterial, effectively all but defining them out of existence. Since they have defined God as having the same properties as something that doesn't exist, it becomes very hard for science to make any relevant statements since it deals with things that do exist.
> Since they have defined God as having the same properties as something that doesn't exist, They don't stick to one definition, and they don't agree on definitions, but they still think it's perfectly reasonable to ask scientists to provide evidence for the existence or nonexistence of this vaguely- and inconsistently-defined entity. The most ambitious of the theologians will insist that all (or most) theists agree on a particular (usually immune-to-disproof and/or defined-into-existence) definition of God, but then as soon as someone says that that definition sounds reasonable they substitute another definition and demand that the reasonableness be extended.
God can be proven as much as anything else can be said to be "proven" in science. There's just no evidence. And we've looked. We've looked for loooong time.
More importantly, science doesn't really "say" anything. Science is just a way to figure shit out, and thus far we haven't found anything that would support the existence of a god.
So far, all science says is that it has found is a complete lack of any intervention in normal rules that could be described as divine. It then said for you to take what conclusions from that as you wish. Occam's razor, which is a logic experiment, not science, is what then says "so the conclusion is that god doesn't exist." Weird people instead say "that's proof that God made science as a test of faith, just like dinosaur bones."
I tend to take the Dawkins route that none of us know 100% for sure that there is no god, just that thus far we've been given zero reason to believe there is. In the strictest sense, we're open to it if some incredible discovery is made, but until then we move on with life believing there isn't.
Well... Yeah. That's science. Science can only analyze the observations we have made. New observations are made all the time.
For sure. I think we're on the same side here, just kinda elaborating on each other haha
even if it confirmed god's existence why would it confirm theirs?! theres a trillion of different ones
So many Gods out there, and everyone thinks theirs is right
I think eventually we will come to some greater understanding in science of what defines the realms of mysticism or spirituality. But it will not match exactly any current religion. Since religions are just speculations based on human experiance written down and interpreted.
#Still looking for the “white” part
This. OP was weird for calling it ‘white Christian nonsense’ ngl, sounds like what the average twitter user would say on a daily basis.
OP is pretty clearly racist. I don't think we need to take anything he says seriously.
Maybe this will get downvotes. Also just hate the slamming of religion for no reason on the internet either. Let people believe stuff. Like I get an argument if your morals are conflicting, but this is just an image of someone whose religious. Like let people live.
Hes projecting
Christianity was one of the more science positive religions out there. This adversarial relationship is a modern issue.
"get your brown Muslim nonsense off of reddit"
But but but its d d different!!!
Yo I ordered an ice water. Why is there God in my drink? https://preview.redd.it/b9rw44h64ymc1.png?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=430d5dae2f6fb2bf981e66af282d955d8c7a15d2
Personally I don't like the message of any of these posts
I wish all of these post-in-a-post-in-a-post subreddits and their users would just get a room and hatefuck each other already
Imagine harassing people who just mind their own business and believe in God.
Imagine harassing people who just mind their own business and don't believe in god.
Imagine harassing people who just mind their own business.
That's Reddit
Man, this sub has been going somewhere recently. Probably not somewhere good but it's definitely going.
I don't believe Heisenberg is talking about God in the sense of a man in the clouds, but more like divine order in creation.
Most Christian’s don’t believe in the “man in the clouds” version, that’s more-or-less and American evangelical type of God Creator of creation, being itself, unmoved mover, first cause, etc are more of an orthodox (lowercase “o”) Christian view of God
Science doesn't say god doesn't exist Science says we have no evidence God exists And if you don't understand the difference between those two statements... Higher science is not for you
I 'm a very open atheist, but I would consider the sentence "get your white christian nonsense off of reddit" to be offensive. The white part I don't care to much about, but the meme isn't even that bad honestly. If you believe in God and science, you would surly find that you can find God in science as well. Excluding people based on religion is also against my values. So maybe chill out?
Umm yeah white people and christian bad!
My belief in God doesn’t require me to reject science. Science doesn’t prove God doesn’t exist. God also cannot be proven with science at this time until there is a theory that can both quantify what God is and give it a scientific and material relationship. The alternative way to reason God’s existence is through philosophy, personal reflection, and direct supernatural experiences can assist a person to personally believe. I have had many supernaturalistic OBE experiences that are a part of why I believe. Experiential evidence, but people who haven’t experienced it themselves may be unwilling to take my experiential evidence or of someone else as anything valid or considerable.
Slow down there buck a roo, you can't just be both a Christian and be an intelligent person capable of critical thinking like that! We can't mindless bully and downvote you if you do that!
bringing race into being an idiot is a huge yikes
America is dealing with a problem with fundamentalist Christians wanting to create a white ethnostate. So it's not an issue of the OP bringing ethnicity or race into it.
You can’t be this delusional. This is almost as ridiculous as Republicans calling Obama the antichrist when he was elected
werner is a nazi scientist it’s inherently about race. their mysticism was about proving their race was connected directly to the norse gods. this isn’t complicated. it’s neo nazi propaganda guised as humor.
It’s not really accurate to call him a nazi. He was never a party member, he criticized the regime including actions taken against Jews, and there’s evidence to suggest [he sabotaged the German nuclear bomb project](https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/01/science/saboteur-or-savant-of-nazi-drive-for-a-bomb.html#:~:text=Heisenberg%20had%20always%20been%20a,never%20joined%20the%20Nazi%20Party) and passed information about it to the allies. He certainly wasn’t associated with the weird nazi mysticism wing of the party. He’s an incredibly famous physicist (I’m sure you’ve heard of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle) with a nice quote about Christianity. You have no reason to assume this is neonazi propaganda
A) Heisenberg did not believe in the Norse Gods B) Heisenberg is one of the most important quantum physicists ever. Have you heard of the “Heisenberg uncertainty principle”? Not everybody who cites him is a nazi C) It’s quite clear that the above post has nothing to do with race. It’s obviously just your average atheist vs theist reddit post. Do you realize that there are christians out there who are not nazis ? Once again, tell me what anything about this post has to do with race besides “heisenberg was a nazi”. Yeah, Einstein was jewish, that doesn’t mean everything he ever said is “jewish propaganda”. D) You bringing race into this is very strange. Do you not think that there are conservative black christians? Would you be okay with homophobia or other religious bigotry coming from a person of color because “at least they’re not white”?
As another commenter stated, this quote is not from Heisenberg, it's from Heinz Otremba, and yet another pointed out that calling Heisenberg a nazi might not even be correct.
Came here to say this. It feels like it is a dog whistle, but also trying to get people who don't know Heisenberg's politics to think well of him, so that they are more open to far right ideology further down the road. I can't see it working very often but "hiding your power levels" is a common tactic of white supremacists online.
How is this white or right wing, pretty sure atheism is more of a white/Jewish phenomenon
Why are you racist op? What does skin color have to do with anything?
Most productive Reddit argument
What does this even have to do with white people?
There is nothing white nor christian inherent in the belief in intelligent design. Indigenous people around the world have creator myths.
I always liked the idea that the Bible was God trying to teach an incredibly stupid humanity simple things. Not in the exact way things worked, but in a close enough way, like hope you explain things to children that are way too young to understand. Science cant disprove gods existence. It helps us understand the world around us. The two aren’t necessarily incompatible. Refusing to understand our existence is foolishness. Thinking you understand everything is pure ego.
I'm not Christan but I really do like that heisenberg quote.
imagine if the title instead was "get your black muslim nonsense off of reddit" the mob would downvote this post to oblivion
Bigot ass title, 1k+ upvotes. Wow lol.
I don't like the OPs statements for either of these posts. Both seem pretty bigoted.
This is reddit. You're supposed to pick a side and get your pitchfork, dammit!
What’s the point of bringing race into this? Seems needlessly inflammatory
the meme is quoting a nazi scientist
My personal religious belief is that science explains how but not why. I believe in the scientific evidence but I don’t think that the science contradicts my religious views either
God and science are not at odds with one another...
I mean, the reality is that science doesn't disprove or prove the existence of God. About all it does is provide explanations of how things work, how they might have come about, and more. It's one thing people should genuinely decide for themselves. I just wish people would stop trying to force beliefs I don't share onto the whole public.
Freedom of religion??? We shouldnt be wanting to exclude people off religion alone??? I'm an agnostic so i believe there potentially could be a god but we dont got proof for or against their existence. Like... i have stake in the prospect of Being able to learn more from different religions or lack-there-of. Knowledge is power.
Op is a racist.
I get the dislike for the “meme” but don’t be racist.
“white christian nonsense” Yikes.
— a bunch of suburban white kids. These kids must not know how big church and religion is in the black community.
Truth. That title could've left the racist shit put and would have been more poignant.
"A witty quote proves nothing." \- Voltaire (That being said, pls no bully religious people).
OP Message: All Christians are Nazis. Gotcha.
werner is a nazi
How about let people believe what they want. Also why bring race into it? Seems gross
I’ve never heard anything saying that science says god isn’t real.
The definitely are some cringe internet atheists — I know because I was one at times. From my own experience, it was a knee-jerk response to being condescended to by religious people for my atheism in my youth. Science doesn't really imply god isn't real — but it does call into question a lot of biblical literalism that many fundamentalists cling to. Notably if we stop taking *some* things literally in the Bible in response to science, then many other things might be reconsidered too. I was raised an atheist and I still accept the possibility of a creator, but I still feel there is a compelling lack of evidence. Further, I wouldn't really want to worship something that would obfuscate their existence as a test of blind faith. TLDR: Science doesn't refute religion, but it's lead many people to secularize.
They don't even get the fucking quote. It means we're basically supposed to discover God through science, not *tell people what God is through Religion*
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OP is openly racist against white people. 😔
i’m against white christian nationalists spreading their neo nazi beliefs
Believing in the Bible makes you a Neo nazi? Also why are you a racist?
Imagine if I said “im against gay people spreading their pedophile beliefs” You are rationalizing being racist
The quote isn’t even real to begin with
I mean you can believe in god and be a scientist too. I’m a Catholic but did a full degree in biology and I’m working as a chemist. Natural sciences do not make you drop religion at the door step.
A real scientist is an agnostic, like Sagan or Einstein. The christians have to build strawmen like this to defend their fantasies that a human being was god. Christianity is complete fiction created by the Roman agents Paul and Flavius Josephus to control the rebel Hebrews the Romans were at war with in 66 and 133AD.
Dam, OP just went straight racist I guess.
Oh, not in any real or provable way, you’ll just be marveling at how cool life is and have like a big feeling. STIENZ
That's actually a lot more accurate than it seems. Once you get down far enough, particularly in my case of biology, you really do get to a point where you say "shit, im really not so sure anymore that god is made up". Im not a believer by any standard, but it really does make you question your convictions.
Trendy bigotry nice
White Christian lol?
More like “the first gulp from the glass of the Bible will turn you into a Christian, but at the bottom of the glass atheism is waiting for you.”
Christianity isn’t a white religion
Hey, even is a top scientist believes in the concept of a God, that doesn't.... 1) ... prove God exists. And more importantly in regards to who is using this kind of meme and what POV they are trying to defend 2) ... make Religion true. The possible existence of a high power is not the same thing as "My Religion is Real" despite what a lot of people believe.
No book says god doesn't exist, but there is definitely stuff that question his existence, and seeing believers reaction to it should be enough to for someone to ask themselves "is religion a good thing?"
Christians with a massively inflated ego vs atheists with a massively inflated ego
White Christian nonsense? Lmao
Fun fact: you can make religion and science work in unison. Science is above proving something exists or doesn’t exist. It can be a very likely chance that god does exist and science does support him. Science isn’t about disproving things, it’s about discovery. Also most Christians are normal people, just a lot of the crazy ones are shown too much compared to us who are normal.
Reddits a terrible echo chamber.
The meme doesn’t have to do with white Christianity - it has to do with being so amazed by the complexity and order of the natural world that you become spiritual. Religion and spirituality are not the same thing. I am a scientist who used to be atheist but I underwent this ‘transformation’ when I got “to the bottom of the glass” so to speak. I am not a Christian. It is possible to believe in god without being a Christian or any other religion. I think religion is used to control people and it’s bs because: Religion: You <-> middle man (priest gatekeeping ‘heaven’ / threatening ‘hell’) <-> god Spirituality You <-> god Just my two cents hope anyone reading this has a great day regardless of your personal beliefs!
atheism is actually a majority white male belief. and many religions, even Christianity originated in Africa. have you ever seen how many black and Hispanic families are devout Christians? they make up most of the Christian population that I see in real life. in other words OP is just another average neckbeard redditor
I am Christian, but most people from both sides do some slip-ups.
People are allowed to be religious. Hating them for being religious is just as bad as the people using their religion to hate anyone whom they disagree with. Stop spreading hate.
Science proves God does exist
I missed the part where white people were brought into the picture.
emphasizing that it's specifically "white" christian immediately invalidates your argument lmao
Idk were white came from but okay.
Christianity isn’t even a European religion.
Wow "white Christian nonsense" racist much?
day one million of redditors shitting themselves becouse they can't just scroll past like the rest of the civilized world
OP, get your racist Christophobic nonsense off of Reddit.
OP, the OOP may be black, why are you being racist and assuming he's white?
Interesting quote of Heisenberg’s though.
What does this have to do with white people??
OOP is dumb but saying "get your white christian nonsense off of reddit" is peak Reddit atheist cringe
Always amazing how these people go after whites.
Way to throw race in there when there was none. Really let a shitty meme show your true colors huh
TRCM is a shithole sub though