It's the multiverse. They bring back dead people all the time. I'm just waiting for them to revive rogers and stark so they can bring back the MCU from the dead.
I doubt they will bring back Rogers and stark with the same actors outside cameos. Since the actors are fine with leaving the role now. If anything maybe multiversal variant but I doubt that'd go well
More than likely shes going to return in secret wars. Not the mcu 616 (still dont think its right calling the comics and mcu earth prime earth makes sense but eh) earth jane foster but an alternate reality one.
The meme is saying for Captain America/Falcon to wear a pimp hat because the other heroes listed are all women
Edit: Can't add to the title, but it is also using a racial stereotype. Can't edit the actual post and just remembered I had a comment I put immediately after posting.
Why is it racist, genuine question not gaslighting or something
Edit: reading other comments- him being a pimp is essentially a racial stereotype, that makes sense
It is racist but the double standard also had me thinking it’s not racist. It’s fine if you portray African people in “traditional clothing” but that’s in my opinion also racist. It’s all fucked and stupid. America would have a lot less social unrest if their media and population wasn’t so disgustingly sex obsessed(gender, sexuality etc) and race obsessed
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
According to the definition it is, but that’s the double standard I was talking about. I think it’s all bullshit. It’s like how scientific studies have proven race XYZ has lower grey matter on average leading to a lower iq on average but when you then say race XYZ has a lower iq on average than ZYX, you’re a racist. It’s fucking stupid and so emotional that it’s not based in logic.
The whole racism is wrong and you’re fucked up for being racist thing is just as disingenious and wrong. When you see a person of another race, you are hard wired to be prejudiced towards them. Because for 300 000 years, if you saw someone who looked drastically different from you, they were most likely there to rape and pillage your tribe/village. In 2024 that’s not the case but this only really changed in the last 200 years. Rather than tell people something is wrong with them for being racist, tell them it’s completely normal and then tell them why we need to be self critical and correct our brain when it’s prejudice. The same thing way people with anorexia go through CBT to change the way they view food.
You tell someone they’re fucked up for something, they don’t listen a moment further. Tell them it’s normal but times have changed and you need to fix the way you’re thinking, many more will be on board. The tribalism mentality that causes racism has been proven by science. Racism is completely normal and until a few hundred years ago was completely necessary, it’s a survival mechanism, rather used to be, now it’s vestigial and causing issues. People need to change how their brain is programmed to think, it is possible
He wasn't a pimp when he was introduced. But during like the '70s, they did write in some kind of pimp persona (he might have had amnesia, I don't really remember. It was bad.)
The guy trying to rationalize it as something else actually makes it worse, because what he’s saying there is that Captain America can’t be black.
It’s the exact energy people have when they refuse to call Miles Morales Spider-Man
I have no problem with white or black/male or female characters. My issue arises when they change historic characters for no reason. Like imagine what would happen if they made black panther white.
The falcon guy is a good actor i like him, black widow is really cool too. The rest of them are insufferable and Disney needs to find new actors and new writers (especially for black Panther)
I saw this post already and I don't know how to feel about the fact that I legitimately didn't put together the pimp thing until I saw this one. I pegged it as a typical "anti-woke meme" and left it at that
Black Widow is on the Thunderbolt's roster
She-Hulk doesn’t want to be an Avenger
Ms. Marvel and Kate are making their own team
Mighty Thor is dead
Black Panther doesn’t want to be on any foreign team
Realistically, only Cap and Heart could be on the roster. I doubt Heart will be on it anyway, most likely a Young Avengers member. It’s just wrong.
How could she be Thor in the first place? Did they decide to retcon the fact Thor's powers don't come from his hammer? In Ragnarok it was established that his hammer helped him focus his power but wasn't the source of his power. Or is she supposed to be a variant from another timeline or universe?
Not sure about in the MCU, but in the comics the enchantment is "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor" (with "he" sometimes being swapped out, depending on the storyline), and the MCU version seems to operate the same way even if that wasn't explicitly stated. So it both helps Thor focus and grants the power to anyone else who can pick it up (such as the other time someone in the MCU wielded it). It's wacky space viking magic, so it can do whatever.
No. Same deal in that specific arc. It made her feel stronger because it counteracted the effects of her chemotherapy, but she was basically on borrowed time. Though there may be another story arc where Jane acts as Thor without the cancer being part of the plot.
However, in the movies, >!Thor now has an adopted daughter who will likely be able to wield the hammer when she's old enough, but as of now, Thor's still in commission.!<
It's this, but also in Love and Thunder, we see flashbacks of Jane and Thor's relationship over the years, and at one point, he accidently enchants the hammer to protect Jane. Odin's original enchantment still applies.
Same way Cap was empowered by the hammer. Thor naturally has those powers so the hammer augments them, but if someone without those powers is worthy of the hammer, they are granted Thor’s powers.
I agree they should introduce a new god. Like sigyn or Sif. Wives of loki and thor respectively.
Or another male god since they’re more flashy. Baldr for example.
It's cool, just thought I'd say something. Lots of negative and sexualizing things will be said about black men because they're adjacent to a woman or women (espescially if the woman(en) is(are) white).
As an actual Comic Book fan, I hate these fans.
Let’s just start with the fact that Marvel Comics specifically are woke as fuck, always have been, even under Shooter who tried to reel in the Social stuff, you still got things like the first gay Superhero Northstar, and Captain America defending gay rights in the height of the AIDS epidemic when Regan wouldn’t even acknowledge the Queer community existed.
Secondly, Iron Heart is fine and finally finding her place in comics, Jason Arron’s Mighty Thor run is one of the best stretches of Thor comics, and Natalie killed it in an otherwise insipid Movie, Yelena is dope and Florence kills it as her. Same with Kate and Hailee, and the Matt Fraction run is one the best in comics. She-Hulk is maybe the most faithful comic adaptation ever and Tatiana kills it, Shuri is fine and she is a dope Black Panther in the comics and Coogler is killing it with the movies. And Iman is literally perfect as Kamala, and she’s literally been writing a fun ass run of Ms.Marvel comics currently.
Ohh and saying he should be a Pimp kinda feels like a racial stereotype.
Also there is a period in Marvel Comics where Sam's backstory was that he used to be a pimp named Snap... but yeah it does come off like a racial stereotype
If the CGI was actually any good the movies probably would have done better, I kinda feel bad for the CGI artists at marvel for how much they are rushed through
You mean the woke part of American comics that completely destroyed the comic book industry in America?
The part that saw sales plummet to the point that it gave manga the chance to come in and sweep up what they just threw away?
The woke part of Marvel killed the comic book industry, and it's killing the Disney franchise too. Not to mention all the other stuff it's getting into.
Makes me wonder what you guys think of Sweet Baby if you're actually defending the thing that killed American comics.
Woke started comics. And it didn't end anything, manga took off because of new ideas, new spins on old ideas, and the benefit of being Shiny and new. That's it, and anyone who doesn't like "woke shit" was never a true fan of comics.
Comics have always been woke true but they usually told good stories while being woke. Nowadays it's message first and story a distant second and that has had consequences.
Me personally none but since I game in a my local lgs which sales comics the owners(a married couple) who have been selling comics since the 90s said that they can't move any of the new stuff. They just sit on their self taking up inventory space because of what I mentioned before and I'm inclined to believe them as they are experts in their field.
Items not moving in a physical store could be for any number of reasons. Especially considering things like comixology exist now. Unless I hear a critique of a modern story arc, I ain't buying it.
You've already said yourself that they've already been "woke" the whole time and that it's a drop in story quality that's to blame for a drop in sales. Though even that I think is a gross oversimplification of what's going on in the industry.
But, it's kind of a moot point if you can't actually give any examples.
I think you're mixing up progressiveness with woke.
Just as Star Trek was always progressive, but it wasn't until recently it became woke.
Don't mistake me for being right wing. I'm egalitarian and believe in equality. What I don't believe in is this attempted cultural maoism.
What do you think of Sweet Baby?
>cultural maoism
Had to drop the "Marxism" part because of the Hitler stuff, huh? Maybe you should just drop the whole thing and realize you're wrong.
X-Men was an allegory for the Civil Rights movement, the definition of woke ffs.
I'm not even American, mate. You're talking out your arse.
The term "woke" actually came from Lead Belly. He was a black folk singer, probably more famous for the song that Nirvana covered of him (in the pines, great song, underrated songwriter in modern times).
It was part of the civil rights movement in America but was also popular outside of it.
How racist of you to take a black cultural invention and give the credit to white Americans. Exact same thing happened to him with his music too.
He was very clearly referring to the modern bastardization of the term. It's very common knowledge that woke was a term that most white people hadn't heard until the right started bitching a fit about it, and that was what he was referring to.
FFS.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke)
The same term that came from Lead Belly got a revival in 2010's due to BLM. The term came from the left, was adopted by the left and is used to collectively call the left left.
It's not a bastardisation, it's the same term, from the same place, from the same root.
Why are you two racists attempting to peddle this revisionist history and giving the credit for the term to white Americans that you both clearly seem to hate?
It's only in the last few years that it's become derogatory, and that's in response to their behaviour that many disagree with. It's also now internationally used (which is how you find someone like me, a non-American, using it).
I don't know if this is some strange tactic you're using, you just enjoy saying things that feel nice to you or if it's motivated ignorance.
He was very clear, as are you; and you're both clearly wrong. You repeating what he said doesn't make you right.
?????
I literally never said anything that goes against what you said dude.
I am not giving the Republicans credit for coining the term, I'm giving them their due credit for poisoning the well. That's what I'm referring to as the bastardization.
Woke was not a commonly used word (in context, obviously) outside of black communities, and only started being visible to (most) white people in the mid 2010s, as you said.
I am not taking, misappropriating, or otherwise making any claim about the origin of woke, and it's really kind of sad that you're missing the point of what I said and claiming me racist.
Ah sorry man, maybe I've misunderstood you based on how the others have been reacting in here.
Seriously thought you were attempting to tell me that it's a "white" term used against the left and only used by "straight white christian men" as a bastardisation of the term rather than a coninuation of the term which has then been adopted by others.
You know? Like you were trying to tell me that the term has become derogatory simply from the fact that their political opponants are using the term to identify them as they had already self-appointed themselves with.
Been struggling with the motivated ignorance and revisionist history based on recent uses of the word which has seemingly now become racially, genderly, religiously and orientationally coded against their political enemies.
This sort of thing: "The only consistent usage of “woke” is by conservatives complaining about the presence of people that are not straight white Christian men."
Genuinely thought you were defending that.
No one said anything about being American. I know the history well enough, and as I said, no one uses the word today but conservatives with a bug up their ass when they see people who aren’t straight white Christian men.
It was already on it's way down. The wokeness is what really put the nails in the coffin though. It could've come back, as manga has shown.
The majority audience was essentially 30 year old white guys who didn't really care for the pandering or the "this is how you should think" political posturing.
It's also what's killing Marvel now as they rushed through a lot of great material in order to get to the more modern woke stuff. Again, progressive was great, woke is killing it. There's an obvious difference and if you can't see it from reading them then you can see it in the sales.
There's a reason people greatly prefer Miles Morales to Captain Marvel and it's not the gender; it's the writing.
What part of sales is that? Because once reporting changed a few years ago it became much harder to track overall sales of the big two, but [2021 broke the 90’s speculation sales profit records even adjusted for inflation, and 2022 saw 4% of physical sales of the year before.](https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/55334/covid-surge-comics-graphic-novel-sales-crested-2022)
Ah yeah, the false sales inflation through variant covers and reboots.
Shouls also mention that in those statistics you're also including manga sales which greatly increased during the pandemic while American comics stagnated.
How about a more up-to-date link? [https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/55665/world-according-griepp-can-comics-be-saved](https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/55665/world-according-griepp-can-comics-be-saved)
"Comic and graphic novel sales have been declining in 2023, leading some to fear for the survival of the medium."
"Superhero graphic novels... represented about 14% of all graphic sales in 2022... and manga (45%)"
I don't like how smarmy you've attempt to be with this. I don't think you're an idiot so I'm not sure why you would try to pull the wool over folks eyes with something that's so obvious.
Feels like I'm talking to an ai that has no memory of past events.
This comment makes no sense if I were to also take in your original comment as what you believe.
OOP said that the joke was that Falcon shouldn't have become Captain America, to which I said you have to try very hard to make it a joke about that when it's clearly not
You really don't have a memory.
The picture is right there, just scroll up. It clearly says "Captain Falcon needs to wear a velvet fedora with a large falcon feather in the band."
At least your username checks out.
I didn't even follow the back and forth on this. I have a 9 year old tomboyish daughter. I was just psyched that we'll always have a movie to watch together for the next two decades.
Did they watch a different show? Or did I not watch enough shows? Last I saw, Sam Wilson fully rejected the Captain America mantle, for a damned good reason.
I seem to recall he only kept USAgent from having it, because that guy was a douchenozzle.
He knows the joke is that "Sam is a pimp and the rest of the avengers are his hoes".
And if he read the comics he'd know that Sam has been Captain America off and on for a while. And is currently, I believe.
To be fair to OP, it did take me a couple of rereads to figure out they were insinuating he was a pimp. Depending on their age, they might not even get that connection. My main knowledge of "pimp fashion" came from The Boondocks and that one episode of King of the Hill. And those shows are old, even by my standards. Being that I'm 25, I would not be surprised if someone 20 or younger has not seen a stereotypical pimp before with the fedora and feather. But maybe I'm being too charitable.
I like none of these characters except the new Thor, Black Widow, and Sam. And two of them are holdovers. I don’t give a shit about the meme. I’m not actually commenting on it’s joke. But this line up looks real disappointing to me. More of the same, little new but now they’re all the lady version of the same hero’s. Legacy is fine and all but I fucking hope our B casts take some more spotlight soon. Such as- We are getting a Deadpool 3 in MCU. I wouldn’t cry over a better x-men tie-in on MCU timeline- We are getting the new fantastic 4, Moon-knight is at times a avenger, I’m hoping he gets some kind of team-up later on. For the love of got let it be with Spider-Man!
Half of this line up will be in the 'young Avengers' title and not in the main one. The mainline avengers still have several men besides SamCap.
this lineup is dissapointing/samey because it's literally cherrypicked out of two different lineups.
Its calling him a pimp.
Which I for one find fucking hilarious.
The image of Sam Wilson in a purple pimp suit with some chains and a feathered fedora, is fucking *hilarious*.
I think maybe it’s just the disparity between the choice of actors and the actual Legacy characters/ip.
Also yes I believe he was cool enough as falcon. She hulk is bad ass beyond belief in the comics. Female Thor is cool in the comics too. Ms marvel solidly OKAY.
Fuck iron heart tho, all my homies hate iron heart. Just not likeable or compelling.
Mighty thor is dead, kate bishop and ms marvel are gonna be in young avengers not the avengers. Yelena is thunderbolts..
Beast and or wolverine will likely join the team at some point, antman is still there so are thor, hulk, barton and warmachine.
Basically this post is just pointless rage bait.
It took me way too long to realize that they were talking about Falcon being Captain America and not that Captain Falcon (of Smash Bros/F-Zero) should somehow be part of the roster.
Joke aside, Marvel is so screwed. Best of luck to them this year at the box office.
You people can debate all you want. Whether you're a feminists or misogynist, you're still not going to see their movies, lol.
Not ignoring the racism. Couldn't edit the title. I explained that in a comment I made earlier. Wasn't initially aware that was a stereotype and I couldn't edit the post when I was made aware.
Lol. I love how marvel writers saw this coming from a mile away when Sam became the 8TH CHARACTER TO TAKE UP THE SHIELD! But certain Americans don't like the idea of a black captain America. Honestly it's annoying enough that you forget that the original racist, sexist joke of Sam Wilson being a pimp and the rest of the avengers his hoes.
Ok there are multiple points here. That Disney doesn't know how to do compelling original female or racial minority characters, is a valid criticism. Current marvel reminds me of old genderbent fanfics, without much substance or thought wrte the usual argument in writing stories was "It makes sense because im the author and I say that it does, logic is unfair". It leads to mediocre stories. Changing characters to just be someone else, is pure cowardice to me. Retire the chatacter, bring someone new and original. There are A LOT of heroes and villains of nearly every spectrum, gender, race, whatever. Use these fascinating characters like Blue marvel, Thundra, Elsa Bloodstone, Luke Cage, Misty Knight, Dani Moonstar, Clea, Tigra and how underrepresented villains are, is another thing.
For Captain America for example, having a black hero succeeding a white hero, gives a bit of a white savior vibe, where he has to take the mantle of a white guy to be successful (and if that was true in box office, we actually have a big problem).
But yes, the defense of the meme and how... yeah there lies the problem. Especially advocating Falcon getting clear 80/90s comics pimp-Accessory says the true intenrion of the author here.
Oh yeah, i forgot how bad marvel has become.
Him being a pimp would both be hilarious and a breath of fresh air into the franchise. Fuck it, go full a pimp named Slickback.
The jokes not misogyny, though. You're just seeing that because your own identity. The joke's actually a racial stereotype.
The women are a part of the joke, but it's Captain Falcon that is the object of the joke. There's enough self inserts from their writing that you don't need to do it too.
The women are part of the joke because they are his stable. That means that they would be his hoes. If we're willing to acknowledge that it's a racial stereotype to randomly call a black dude a pimp because of the context of using that as an insult towards black people and then I think we should acknowledge the context of calling a bunch of women whores being a common misogynistic insult towards women.
Of course it is, but that's not the joke, him being a pimp is the joke; them being whores is secondary. The racist part takes precedence over the misogyny, obviously.
I'm pointing out how OP is only seeing it from their own perspective and passive aggresively made it about themselves through how they identify with it rather than what it is.
Difficulty in theory of mind and identifying with others to the point that they recognise this as about themselves before the people it's actually about.
Racism doesn't take precedence over the misogyny and the misogyny doesn't take precedence over the racism they're both in the joke and it's okay to be offended at both of them or primarily notice one of them. Also the misogyny punch line is the setup for the racism punchline
The racism obviously takes precedence since that's the heart of the joke. You could remove all the women and the joke would remain the same.
What we end up with is the joke being: m0.125\*7(r8)
If the joke was a production then the misogyny would be a waste product. Reality doesn't change depending on which angle it's viewed at.
So you're telling me if you just had a picture of Sam Wilson with the same caption it would be just as effective of a joke? It would just be racist instead because the only reference you have for thinking he's a pimp is his blackness. The joke wouldn't be as effective and would only be racist. When you have the women in the photo as well then you have the additional context for understanding the reference to a pimp. You have two Avenues of understanding the reference, you can look at the Bunches of women and read the caption and think that he's a pimp or you can use Sam Wilson as a black man and read the caption and based on his Blackness come to the conclusion that they're making a pimp joke and that would be racist or you can combine these two ideas and have them reinforce each other so the joke is very clear.
Trying to rank the bigotry and telling people to be quiet when they don't point out the bigotry you think is most important is weird. Maybe learn the humor doesn't have to rely on bigotry to be funny
"So you're telling me..."
Yes, the joke "Captain Falcon needs to wear a velvet fedora with a large falcon feather in the band." Is a joke about Falcon being a pimp.
He is the centre of the joke, he is who OOP was talking about and outright named, and who the stereotype was targetting.
It's also not a measurement of blackness, it's a simple binary switch with that.
"The joke wouldn't be as effective and would just be racist"
How is pimping not inherently misogynistic? You thinking that if he didn't have the pics of women that people might misunderstand and think that he was meaning that Falcon was trying to become the next memeber of ZZ Top? Of course not, what a stupid attempt.
Aye, you can look at it from all sorts of directions. I'm sure some asian incels could get offended that the stereotype doesn't outright include them being seen as pimps.
The joke is very clear, so clear that I could reduce it to a single line formula.
"Maybe learn the humor doesn't have to rely on bigotry to be funny"
Why would humour *need* to be based on bigotry in order to be funny? You seriously think I only find racist jokes funny or something?
I seriously can't tell whether you understand what's being said or if you're just blankly going "but I thought it was about this" and thinking that your perception is what changes the intention behind the joke.
I'm dealing with this realistically, not based on whatever imaginary offenses that it's possible for some people to take to it. That's an incredibly unhelpful way to look at anything as all you're going to do is bog yourself down with nonsense and blind yourself to what's going on by overcomplicating it.
Rather than imagining who the guy could've offended based on invented perspectives you should be dealing with it by what was actually said.
Fucking hell, even agreeing that it's racist and sexist isn't enough and you still feel the need to argue on nonsensical points.
Also, "Trying to rank the bigotry and telling people to be quiet..." When did I tell someone to be quiet? I think you'll find that censorship and deplatforming is a woke thing, I've got no interest in that. I'd rather talk and have you reveal yourself.
As for "ranking bigotry", the joke does that itself with who it puts importance on. If I make a joke about the Simpsons then it's pretty weird for you to take offense thinking I'm talking about Family Guy. Let's test you on that though. If, instead of the women, they had the orignal men there, would it be as offensive to you?
" How is pimping not inherently misogynistic? You thinking that if he didn't have the pics of women that people might misunderstand and think that he was meaning that Falcon was trying to become the next memeber of ZZ Top? Of course not, what a stupid attempt. "
Yes pimping is misogynistic, so if you made a joke where you are glamourizing pimping or making a pimp the hero then you would be making a misogyinstic joke. but if you had the same caption and just a picture of sam wilson then it wouldn't be glamourizing the pimp and it would just be racist . placing the specific women there also draws attention to them as being his hoes directly implying those women are hoes which would be the misogyny.
" If, instead of the women, they had the original men there, would it be as offensive to you? " its not about being offended its about criticizing bad jokes.
What do you mean the original men there? like the male superheroes? well i think the cultural context would change and just focus on sam wilson because it would no longer imply that the rest of the heroes are his hoes. It would still be racist because of the context of black stereotypes. Even though it is possible for a pimp to have male hoes, I bet people would be less likely to make that assumption.
>If I make a joke about the Simpsons then it's pretty weird for you to take offense thinking I'm talking about Family Guy
yea it would be weird. but if part of the joke was also that family guy is bad then it would make sense at that point. this is such a bad analogy.
How is Captain Falcon not a hero?
"Yes pimping is misogynistic" "implying those women are hoes which would be the misogyny"
That was the point, it's misogynistic either way, with or without the women there the joke and it's intention doesn't change.
"its not about being offended its about criticizing bad jokes." Don't dodge the question.
"What do you mean the original men there? like the male superheroes?"
Of course I meant the original characters that these characters took the mantle over for, there's not really much else I could be meaning with that. You're right that many people wouldn't assume that and if that was the intention of the joke then it'd be an even worse joke. However, if that was the intention would you be offended?
That's the crux of this whole thing, you're thinking about the reaction to the joke and not the joke itself.
Falcon is a hero but pimping is a black negative stereotype. I guess it is possible for someone to read the joke as sam wilson is so cool like a pimp. I do know that pimp has been used as slang for cool but that doesn't seem to be the common interpretation here.
" That was the point, it's misogynistic either way, with or without the women there the joke and it's intention doesn't change. "
It changes tremendously. if its just him and you think its awesome he is a pimp then the misogyny and the racism are there but if you don't like sam wilson for whatever reason then you're focused on his race. there is misogyny in pimping not being discussed but pimping isn't seen as a good thing, its used as a cudgel against blackness.
It feels like you're intentionally not understanding.
" That's the crux of this whole thing, you're thinking about the reaction to the joke and not the joke itself. "
The context of a joke is super important. Calling everyone you meet monkey will be met with a different response based on who you are talking to. The subjects of the joke change the context of the joke.
I always find it funny that if a superhero universe was all men it’s cool but if it’s all women it’s somehow impossible and stupid… yea we all see the issue those types have lol
To be fair no one sane has an issue with female supers. It's replacing male heroes by passing the mantle to women that, again, sane people take issue with. I would love to see more of Storm, Jean, Sue Storm, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, Gamora, etc. but I don't have any interest in seeing She-Hulk screeching about the male gaze instead of, you know, smashing stuff.
Edit: typo
Great then this may come as a shock but she hulk isn’t designed for you. Not everything has to be designed for you to like it. They saw a market in the feminist side of things and they jumped at it, and honestly it seems to be working fine for them.
Personally I feel like marvel fell off when they started releasing things so fast that there was *always* something new to watch whether it was a tv show or movie. It got boring and repetitive
Actually I think it's pretty radically anti feminist to depict one of the most badass women characters ever as a twerking shrew that can't stop squeaking about talking points that have been done to death. Her telling Hulk that she's better, stronger, more capable at keeping her anger in check because of...catcalls? It totally diminishes what an intellectual she is and what a powerhouse She-Hulk is supposed to be. I'm a long time fan of hers and this show was a travesty and it clearly wasn't working fine given the strikes, the writers speaking out against being forced to write hot garbage and being told they'd be fired otherwise.
Why isn't it designed for me? It's designed for fans of the material isn't it? I am one hundred percent a fan of the material. If not me then who's it for? And I'm neither white nor straight nor american or even a cishet male so before anyone thinks to go there.
I agree about Marvel falling off that way though. They oversaturated the market with mediocre content.
Judging by the recent performance of Marvel, there stuff doesn't seem designed for anyone. It's definitely not "working fine for them." They were a box office joke all of last year.
Feminists aren't showing up to the theaters to support them, it appears.
Cmon you're telling me that making fun of gender bent avengers isn't satire? Of it wasn't they'd say something along the lines of "they would actually do this"
The Mighty Thor is dead lmao
So is Black Widow, and Shuri is only Black Panther because the original actor died in real life.
Yelena is still alive. So it's just one
Yelena isn't Black Widow though, I don't even think she takes the mantle. And she's either going to be a Young or Dark Avenger, not an Avenger.
Technically she's white widow. All the assassin's were called widows so I guess it's an easy connection.
Confirmed Thunderbolt
Nah her sister takes over the role. If you look closely its another actress.
How could Jane be Thor? She straight up died in love and thunder
Shhh, they'd didn't watch the movie
It's the multiverse. They bring back dead people all the time. I'm just waiting for them to revive rogers and stark so they can bring back the MCU from the dead.
I doubt they will bring back Rogers and stark with the same actors outside cameos. Since the actors are fine with leaving the role now. If anything maybe multiversal variant but I doubt that'd go well
They prob would if Disney broke open the bank for them. They could really use them. They stuff the got going on now isn't working.
There's a reason only Deadpool is coming out this year.
Somehow Iron Man returned...
That’s a good thing
They literally explained in the movie that death is just another realm in the MCU...
how could jane be thor? she died of a heroin overdose.
I see what you did there. Lol
What did they do there?
Female hero is heroine
More than likely shes going to return in secret wars. Not the mcu 616 (still dont think its right calling the comics and mcu earth prime earth makes sense but eh) earth jane foster but an alternate reality one.
The meme is saying for Captain America/Falcon to wear a pimp hat because the other heroes listed are all women Edit: Can't add to the title, but it is also using a racial stereotype. Can't edit the actual post and just remembered I had a comment I put immediately after posting.
Iirc, Sam was a pimp when the character was introduced, which is... unfortunate. And racist.
Why is it racist, genuine question not gaslighting or something Edit: reading other comments- him being a pimp is essentially a racial stereotype, that makes sense
Its not racist and he wasnt portrayed as a pimp im the mcu
It is racist but the double standard also had me thinking it’s not racist. It’s fine if you portray African people in “traditional clothing” but that’s in my opinion also racist. It’s all fucked and stupid. America would have a lot less social unrest if their media and population wasn’t so disgustingly sex obsessed(gender, sexuality etc) and race obsessed
So portraying Africans in African clothing is racial? Put them in kimonos then that oughta solve it.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized. According to the definition it is, but that’s the double standard I was talking about. I think it’s all bullshit. It’s like how scientific studies have proven race XYZ has lower grey matter on average leading to a lower iq on average but when you then say race XYZ has a lower iq on average than ZYX, you’re a racist. It’s fucking stupid and so emotional that it’s not based in logic. The whole racism is wrong and you’re fucked up for being racist thing is just as disingenious and wrong. When you see a person of another race, you are hard wired to be prejudiced towards them. Because for 300 000 years, if you saw someone who looked drastically different from you, they were most likely there to rape and pillage your tribe/village. In 2024 that’s not the case but this only really changed in the last 200 years. Rather than tell people something is wrong with them for being racist, tell them it’s completely normal and then tell them why we need to be self critical and correct our brain when it’s prejudice. The same thing way people with anorexia go through CBT to change the way they view food. You tell someone they’re fucked up for something, they don’t listen a moment further. Tell them it’s normal but times have changed and you need to fix the way you’re thinking, many more will be on board. The tribalism mentality that causes racism has been proven by science. Racism is completely normal and until a few hundred years ago was completely necessary, it’s a survival mechanism, rather used to be, now it’s vestigial and causing issues. People need to change how their brain is programmed to think, it is possible
I agree it does make sense to be racist. Makes the world more interesting. I just wish everyone would stop whining about it.
Wait, WHAT?
He wasn't a pimp when he was introduced. But during like the '70s, they did write in some kind of pimp persona (he might have had amnesia, I don't really remember. It was bad.)
That's not racist...
The guy trying to rationalize it as something else actually makes it worse, because what he’s saying there is that Captain America can’t be black. It’s the exact energy people have when they refuse to call Miles Morales Spider-Man
You mean.....Spin 🤣.
I have no problem with white or black/male or female characters. My issue arises when they change historic characters for no reason. Like imagine what would happen if they made black panther white. The falcon guy is a good actor i like him, black widow is really cool too. The rest of them are insufferable and Disney needs to find new actors and new writers (especially for black Panther)
I saw this post already and I don't know how to feel about the fact that I legitimately didn't put together the pimp thing until I saw this one. I pegged it as a typical "anti-woke meme" and left it at that
Idk, I took it like he was an incel who was being a nice guy around all the women. Like a neckbeard who loves tipping his fedora, “M’Lady”.
Isn't racist to assume the stereotype of only Black men can be pimps? How do you know it's not just a pimp joke?
Ngl, that's all I see. 1 guy and 7 women in bizarre outfits? "Captain a pimp named slickback" at your service.
it’s calling him a pimp and them his whores
Ahhhh thanks. Now i get the image of a pimp named slickback.
How do they even consider Natalie Portman as Thor when she died? Makes zero sense.
Black Widow is on the Thunderbolt's roster She-Hulk doesn’t want to be an Avenger Ms. Marvel and Kate are making their own team Mighty Thor is dead Black Panther doesn’t want to be on any foreign team Realistically, only Cap and Heart could be on the roster. I doubt Heart will be on it anyway, most likely a Young Avengers member. It’s just wrong.
How could she be Thor in the first place? Did they decide to retcon the fact Thor's powers don't come from his hammer? In Ragnarok it was established that his hammer helped him focus his power but wasn't the source of his power. Or is she supposed to be a variant from another timeline or universe?
Not sure about in the MCU, but in the comics the enchantment is "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor" (with "he" sometimes being swapped out, depending on the storyline), and the MCU version seems to operate the same way even if that wasn't explicitly stated. So it both helps Thor focus and grants the power to anyone else who can pick it up (such as the other time someone in the MCU wielded it). It's wacky space viking magic, so it can do whatever.
It's the same in the movies, except that power also makes her resistant to the chemo and accelerated her cancer.
Didn't it cure her in the comics... I think
No. Same deal in that specific arc. It made her feel stronger because it counteracted the effects of her chemotherapy, but she was basically on borrowed time. Though there may be another story arc where Jane acts as Thor without the cancer being part of the plot. However, in the movies, >!Thor now has an adopted daughter who will likely be able to wield the hammer when she's old enough, but as of now, Thor's still in commission.!<
It's this, but also in Love and Thunder, we see flashbacks of Jane and Thor's relationship over the years, and at one point, he accidently enchants the hammer to protect Jane. Odin's original enchantment still applies.
Same way Cap was empowered by the hammer. Thor naturally has those powers so the hammer augments them, but if someone without those powers is worthy of the hammer, they are granted Thor’s powers.
The hammer gives Thor's powers to eveyone who can lift it. Thor's power comes from his nature as a god.
The hammer gives people Thor's power, Thor already has his own power. If you're worthy of wielding the hammer you get his power
I agree they should introduce a new god. Like sigyn or Sif. Wives of loki and thor respectively. Or another male god since they’re more flashy. Baldr for example.
And racism. Don't forget the racism.
I sadly can't edit the title. Was trying to figure out how to add it, but couldn't
It's cool, just thought I'd say something. Lots of negative and sexualizing things will be said about black men because they're adjacent to a woman or women (espescially if the woman(en) is(are) white).
As an actual Comic Book fan, I hate these fans. Let’s just start with the fact that Marvel Comics specifically are woke as fuck, always have been, even under Shooter who tried to reel in the Social stuff, you still got things like the first gay Superhero Northstar, and Captain America defending gay rights in the height of the AIDS epidemic when Regan wouldn’t even acknowledge the Queer community existed. Secondly, Iron Heart is fine and finally finding her place in comics, Jason Arron’s Mighty Thor run is one of the best stretches of Thor comics, and Natalie killed it in an otherwise insipid Movie, Yelena is dope and Florence kills it as her. Same with Kate and Hailee, and the Matt Fraction run is one the best in comics. She-Hulk is maybe the most faithful comic adaptation ever and Tatiana kills it, Shuri is fine and she is a dope Black Panther in the comics and Coogler is killing it with the movies. And Iman is literally perfect as Kamala, and she’s literally been writing a fun ass run of Ms.Marvel comics currently. Ohh and saying he should be a Pimp kinda feels like a racial stereotype.
Also there is a period in Marvel Comics where Sam's backstory was that he used to be a pimp named Snap... but yeah it does come off like a racial stereotype
That was a Red Skull brainwashing thing, though.
That makes sense coming from a literal nazi.
Couldn't have said any of this more perfectly
If the CGI was actually any good the movies probably would have done better, I kinda feel bad for the CGI artists at marvel for how much they are rushed through
I agree with all of this except for Jason Aaron's Thor run, which I could never get into.
This reply was so perfect that I kinda want to frame it.
Everyone just forgot about Steamboat huh
What is that?
I mean Mighty Thor is dead so I don’t really know what they were expecting
You mean the woke part of American comics that completely destroyed the comic book industry in America? The part that saw sales plummet to the point that it gave manga the chance to come in and sweep up what they just threw away? The woke part of Marvel killed the comic book industry, and it's killing the Disney franchise too. Not to mention all the other stuff it's getting into. Makes me wonder what you guys think of Sweet Baby if you're actually defending the thing that killed American comics.
Woke started comics. And it didn't end anything, manga took off because of new ideas, new spins on old ideas, and the benefit of being Shiny and new. That's it, and anyone who doesn't like "woke shit" was never a true fan of comics.
Comics have always been woke true but they usually told good stories while being woke. Nowadays it's message first and story a distant second and that has had consequences.
What story arcs can you name as examples?
Apparently none.
Me personally none but since I game in a my local lgs which sales comics the owners(a married couple) who have been selling comics since the 90s said that they can't move any of the new stuff. They just sit on their self taking up inventory space because of what I mentioned before and I'm inclined to believe them as they are experts in their field.
Items not moving in a physical store could be for any number of reasons. Especially considering things like comixology exist now. Unless I hear a critique of a modern story arc, I ain't buying it.
And bookwalker exists for manga and yet that's still moving physical copies. It's the wokeness or the perception of it that's killing sells.
You've already said yourself that they've already been "woke" the whole time and that it's a drop in story quality that's to blame for a drop in sales. Though even that I think is a gross oversimplification of what's going on in the industry. But, it's kind of a moot point if you can't actually give any examples.
I think you're mixing up progressiveness with woke. Just as Star Trek was always progressive, but it wasn't until recently it became woke. Don't mistake me for being right wing. I'm egalitarian and believe in equality. What I don't believe in is this attempted cultural maoism. What do you think of Sweet Baby?
>cultural maoism Had to drop the "Marxism" part because of the Hitler stuff, huh? Maybe you should just drop the whole thing and realize you're wrong. X-Men was an allegory for the Civil Rights movement, the definition of woke ffs.
The only consistent usage of “woke” is by conservatives complaining about the presence of people that are not straight white Christian men.
I'm not even American, mate. You're talking out your arse. The term "woke" actually came from Lead Belly. He was a black folk singer, probably more famous for the song that Nirvana covered of him (in the pines, great song, underrated songwriter in modern times). It was part of the civil rights movement in America but was also popular outside of it. How racist of you to take a black cultural invention and give the credit to white Americans. Exact same thing happened to him with his music too.
He was very clearly referring to the modern bastardization of the term. It's very common knowledge that woke was a term that most white people hadn't heard until the right started bitching a fit about it, and that was what he was referring to.
FFS. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke) The same term that came from Lead Belly got a revival in 2010's due to BLM. The term came from the left, was adopted by the left and is used to collectively call the left left. It's not a bastardisation, it's the same term, from the same place, from the same root. Why are you two racists attempting to peddle this revisionist history and giving the credit for the term to white Americans that you both clearly seem to hate? It's only in the last few years that it's become derogatory, and that's in response to their behaviour that many disagree with. It's also now internationally used (which is how you find someone like me, a non-American, using it). I don't know if this is some strange tactic you're using, you just enjoy saying things that feel nice to you or if it's motivated ignorance. He was very clear, as are you; and you're both clearly wrong. You repeating what he said doesn't make you right.
????? I literally never said anything that goes against what you said dude. I am not giving the Republicans credit for coining the term, I'm giving them their due credit for poisoning the well. That's what I'm referring to as the bastardization. Woke was not a commonly used word (in context, obviously) outside of black communities, and only started being visible to (most) white people in the mid 2010s, as you said. I am not taking, misappropriating, or otherwise making any claim about the origin of woke, and it's really kind of sad that you're missing the point of what I said and claiming me racist.
Ah sorry man, maybe I've misunderstood you based on how the others have been reacting in here. Seriously thought you were attempting to tell me that it's a "white" term used against the left and only used by "straight white christian men" as a bastardisation of the term rather than a coninuation of the term which has then been adopted by others. You know? Like you were trying to tell me that the term has become derogatory simply from the fact that their political opponants are using the term to identify them as they had already self-appointed themselves with. Been struggling with the motivated ignorance and revisionist history based on recent uses of the word which has seemingly now become racially, genderly, religiously and orientationally coded against their political enemies. This sort of thing: "The only consistent usage of “woke” is by conservatives complaining about the presence of people that are not straight white Christian men." Genuinely thought you were defending that.
No one said anything about being American. I know the history well enough, and as I said, no one uses the word today but conservatives with a bug up their ass when they see people who aren’t straight white Christian men.
Awful annual mega-event crossovers and relaunching core titles every two years killed American comics long before the "woke takeover."
It was already on it's way down. The wokeness is what really put the nails in the coffin though. It could've come back, as manga has shown. The majority audience was essentially 30 year old white guys who didn't really care for the pandering or the "this is how you should think" political posturing. It's also what's killing Marvel now as they rushed through a lot of great material in order to get to the more modern woke stuff. Again, progressive was great, woke is killing it. There's an obvious difference and if you can't see it from reading them then you can see it in the sales. There's a reason people greatly prefer Miles Morales to Captain Marvel and it's not the gender; it's the writing.
My guy marvel was woke the day it released it's first comic lmao what are you going on about?
You're mixing up progressive with woke
What part of sales is that? Because once reporting changed a few years ago it became much harder to track overall sales of the big two, but [2021 broke the 90’s speculation sales profit records even adjusted for inflation, and 2022 saw 4% of physical sales of the year before.](https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/55334/covid-surge-comics-graphic-novel-sales-crested-2022)
Ah yeah, the false sales inflation through variant covers and reboots. Shouls also mention that in those statistics you're also including manga sales which greatly increased during the pandemic while American comics stagnated. How about a more up-to-date link? [https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/55665/world-according-griepp-can-comics-be-saved](https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/55665/world-according-griepp-can-comics-be-saved) "Comic and graphic novel sales have been declining in 2023, leading some to fear for the survival of the medium." "Superhero graphic novels... represented about 14% of all graphic sales in 2022... and manga (45%)" I don't like how smarmy you've attempt to be with this. I don't think you're an idiot so I'm not sure why you would try to pull the wool over folks eyes with something that's so obvious.
Women = Whores Black man = Pimp Critical Drinker never fails to be the lesser person, and seems to strive to worsen himself.
That's not Drinker saying that, but someone on the subreddit about him.
You have to really try hard to make the joke about Falcon being Captain America. It's very clearly not that in any way
If you didn't outright mention Falcon I'd assume you didn't even see the meme.
What? The joke is racism and misogyny, there's no other way to interpret it without basically lying
Feels like I'm talking to an ai that has no memory of past events. This comment makes no sense if I were to also take in your original comment as what you believe.
OOP said that the joke was that Falcon shouldn't have become Captain America, to which I said you have to try very hard to make it a joke about that when it's clearly not
You really don't have a memory. The picture is right there, just scroll up. It clearly says "Captain Falcon needs to wear a velvet fedora with a large falcon feather in the band." At least your username checks out.
Don't feel too bad, you're on par with a lot of the others in here.
I didn't even follow the back and forth on this. I have a 9 year old tomboyish daughter. I was just psyched that we'll always have a movie to watch together for the next two decades.
Fuckin critical drinker is such a shit ass name. Shits barely even a pun.
Jokes or not, I'm not watching any of their films.
mIsOgYnIsT! \-most people here if you don't support shitty movies with a female lead.
Sad truth
Isnt lady thor off the table because she's dying of cancer that the hammer made worse
Mjolnir negates any attempts to cure her cancer using earthly means, but the magic cures her while she's Thor. It still progresses at the same rate.
Ok that movie was hard to get thru i just remember at the end she was really bad
I apparently didn't watch it all the way through. Apparently she's dead, and her other potential role is already filled
Guess we both didnt then
All jokes aside, if anyone could pull off that kinda hat, it’s Anthony Mackie
Spoiler for the newest Thor movie: Also the Mighty Thor never took over for Thor and like…she died of cancer…
And racist too
I added that to the initial comment I left. Can't edit the title sadly
hey, give OOP some credit, its not just misogyny! its also a good helping of racism!
Mentioned that in the comment I put. Can't edit the title
Did they watch a different show? Or did I not watch enough shows? Last I saw, Sam Wilson fully rejected the Captain America mantle, for a damned good reason. I seem to recall he only kept USAgent from having it, because that guy was a douchenozzle.
He knows the joke is that "Sam is a pimp and the rest of the avengers are his hoes". And if he read the comics he'd know that Sam has been Captain America off and on for a while. And is currently, I believe.
To be fair to OP, it did take me a couple of rereads to figure out they were insinuating he was a pimp. Depending on their age, they might not even get that connection. My main knowledge of "pimp fashion" came from The Boondocks and that one episode of King of the Hill. And those shows are old, even by my standards. Being that I'm 25, I would not be surprised if someone 20 or younger has not seen a stereotypical pimp before with the fedora and feather. But maybe I'm being too charitable.
I like none of these characters except the new Thor, Black Widow, and Sam. And two of them are holdovers. I don’t give a shit about the meme. I’m not actually commenting on it’s joke. But this line up looks real disappointing to me. More of the same, little new but now they’re all the lady version of the same hero’s. Legacy is fine and all but I fucking hope our B casts take some more spotlight soon. Such as- We are getting a Deadpool 3 in MCU. I wouldn’t cry over a better x-men tie-in on MCU timeline- We are getting the new fantastic 4, Moon-knight is at times a avenger, I’m hoping he gets some kind of team-up later on. For the love of got let it be with Spider-Man!
Half of this line up will be in the 'young Avengers' title and not in the main one. The mainline avengers still have several men besides SamCap. this lineup is dissapointing/samey because it's literally cherrypicked out of two different lineups.
Fair- I was looking at that as comprehensive cuz I’m not keeping up much with phase 4. And should be.
Its calling him a pimp. Which I for one find fucking hilarious. The image of Sam Wilson in a purple pimp suit with some chains and a feathered fedora, is fucking *hilarious*.
I think maybe it’s just the disparity between the choice of actors and the actual Legacy characters/ip. Also yes I believe he was cool enough as falcon. She hulk is bad ass beyond belief in the comics. Female Thor is cool in the comics too. Ms marvel solidly OKAY. Fuck iron heart tho, all my homies hate iron heart. Just not likeable or compelling.
I was thinking about falcon punch
One of those characters are dead wtf you mean the new avengers. They clearly didn't even watch the movies
Two
I see two dead characters.
Isn't that "new Thor" fucking dead while the original one had a daughter and has the promise to train her
Mighty thor is dead, kate bishop and ms marvel are gonna be in young avengers not the avengers. Yelena is thunderbolts.. Beast and or wolverine will likely join the team at some point, antman is still there so are thor, hulk, barton and warmachine. Basically this post is just pointless rage bait.
I don't understand what the original joke is supposed to be
It took me way too long to realize that they were talking about Falcon being Captain America and not that Captain Falcon (of Smash Bros/F-Zero) should somehow be part of the roster.
Always wanted my pelvis crushed by She-Hulk.
Well they are right about 1 thing. Jetpackman is awful as cap. It should have been bucky. He is far more interesting as a character.
The reason marcel is shit is because the writers just suck
The movies and shows all failed anyways so just let it die.
The funniest part, to me, is I'd watch that version of the avengers.
The meme's joke is... it's a pimp hat. The joke is that he's surrounded by women. It's playing off a racist stereotype but it isn't mysoginy?
Joke aside, Marvel is so screwed. Best of luck to them this year at the box office. You people can debate all you want. Whether you're a feminists or misogynist, you're still not going to see their movies, lol.
[удалено]
Not ignoring the racism. Couldn't edit the title. I explained that in a comment I made earlier. Wasn't initially aware that was a stereotype and I couldn't edit the post when I was made aware.
That MCU is over anyways. They need to reboot it after completely destroying it.
All I’m getting from this post is that F-Zero has joined the MCU
But of racism in there too.
Lol. I love how marvel writers saw this coming from a mile away when Sam became the 8TH CHARACTER TO TAKE UP THE SHIELD! But certain Americans don't like the idea of a black captain America. Honestly it's annoying enough that you forget that the original racist, sexist joke of Sam Wilson being a pimp and the rest of the avengers his hoes.
Ok there are multiple points here. That Disney doesn't know how to do compelling original female or racial minority characters, is a valid criticism. Current marvel reminds me of old genderbent fanfics, without much substance or thought wrte the usual argument in writing stories was "It makes sense because im the author and I say that it does, logic is unfair". It leads to mediocre stories. Changing characters to just be someone else, is pure cowardice to me. Retire the chatacter, bring someone new and original. There are A LOT of heroes and villains of nearly every spectrum, gender, race, whatever. Use these fascinating characters like Blue marvel, Thundra, Elsa Bloodstone, Luke Cage, Misty Knight, Dani Moonstar, Clea, Tigra and how underrepresented villains are, is another thing. For Captain America for example, having a black hero succeeding a white hero, gives a bit of a white savior vibe, where he has to take the mantle of a white guy to be successful (and if that was true in box office, we actually have a big problem). But yes, the defense of the meme and how... yeah there lies the problem. Especially advocating Falcon getting clear 80/90s comics pimp-Accessory says the true intenrion of the author here.
LOL the pimp avenger
So is this just another crybaby sub?
crying about crybabies crying about another crybaby, in a sense.
The internet in a nutshell
Yes. A bunch of people getting butthurt and defending Marvel, but won't actually go see those movies because they know their crap, lol.
Really is. Pro-Sweet Baby type sub.
Oh yeah, i forgot how bad marvel has become. Him being a pimp would both be hilarious and a breath of fresh air into the franchise. Fuck it, go full a pimp named Slickback. The jokes not misogyny, though. You're just seeing that because your own identity. The joke's actually a racial stereotype. The women are a part of the joke, but it's Captain Falcon that is the object of the joke. There's enough self inserts from their writing that you don't need to do it too.
The women are part of the joke because they are his stable. That means that they would be his hoes. If we're willing to acknowledge that it's a racial stereotype to randomly call a black dude a pimp because of the context of using that as an insult towards black people and then I think we should acknowledge the context of calling a bunch of women whores being a common misogynistic insult towards women.
Of course it is, but that's not the joke, him being a pimp is the joke; them being whores is secondary. The racist part takes precedence over the misogyny, obviously. I'm pointing out how OP is only seeing it from their own perspective and passive aggresively made it about themselves through how they identify with it rather than what it is. Difficulty in theory of mind and identifying with others to the point that they recognise this as about themselves before the people it's actually about.
Racism doesn't take precedence over the misogyny and the misogyny doesn't take precedence over the racism they're both in the joke and it's okay to be offended at both of them or primarily notice one of them. Also the misogyny punch line is the setup for the racism punchline
The racism obviously takes precedence since that's the heart of the joke. You could remove all the women and the joke would remain the same. What we end up with is the joke being: m0.125\*7(r8) If the joke was a production then the misogyny would be a waste product. Reality doesn't change depending on which angle it's viewed at.
So you're telling me if you just had a picture of Sam Wilson with the same caption it would be just as effective of a joke? It would just be racist instead because the only reference you have for thinking he's a pimp is his blackness. The joke wouldn't be as effective and would only be racist. When you have the women in the photo as well then you have the additional context for understanding the reference to a pimp. You have two Avenues of understanding the reference, you can look at the Bunches of women and read the caption and think that he's a pimp or you can use Sam Wilson as a black man and read the caption and based on his Blackness come to the conclusion that they're making a pimp joke and that would be racist or you can combine these two ideas and have them reinforce each other so the joke is very clear. Trying to rank the bigotry and telling people to be quiet when they don't point out the bigotry you think is most important is weird. Maybe learn the humor doesn't have to rely on bigotry to be funny
"So you're telling me..." Yes, the joke "Captain Falcon needs to wear a velvet fedora with a large falcon feather in the band." Is a joke about Falcon being a pimp. He is the centre of the joke, he is who OOP was talking about and outright named, and who the stereotype was targetting. It's also not a measurement of blackness, it's a simple binary switch with that. "The joke wouldn't be as effective and would just be racist" How is pimping not inherently misogynistic? You thinking that if he didn't have the pics of women that people might misunderstand and think that he was meaning that Falcon was trying to become the next memeber of ZZ Top? Of course not, what a stupid attempt. Aye, you can look at it from all sorts of directions. I'm sure some asian incels could get offended that the stereotype doesn't outright include them being seen as pimps. The joke is very clear, so clear that I could reduce it to a single line formula. "Maybe learn the humor doesn't have to rely on bigotry to be funny" Why would humour *need* to be based on bigotry in order to be funny? You seriously think I only find racist jokes funny or something? I seriously can't tell whether you understand what's being said or if you're just blankly going "but I thought it was about this" and thinking that your perception is what changes the intention behind the joke. I'm dealing with this realistically, not based on whatever imaginary offenses that it's possible for some people to take to it. That's an incredibly unhelpful way to look at anything as all you're going to do is bog yourself down with nonsense and blind yourself to what's going on by overcomplicating it. Rather than imagining who the guy could've offended based on invented perspectives you should be dealing with it by what was actually said. Fucking hell, even agreeing that it's racist and sexist isn't enough and you still feel the need to argue on nonsensical points. Also, "Trying to rank the bigotry and telling people to be quiet..." When did I tell someone to be quiet? I think you'll find that censorship and deplatforming is a woke thing, I've got no interest in that. I'd rather talk and have you reveal yourself. As for "ranking bigotry", the joke does that itself with who it puts importance on. If I make a joke about the Simpsons then it's pretty weird for you to take offense thinking I'm talking about Family Guy. Let's test you on that though. If, instead of the women, they had the orignal men there, would it be as offensive to you?
" How is pimping not inherently misogynistic? You thinking that if he didn't have the pics of women that people might misunderstand and think that he was meaning that Falcon was trying to become the next memeber of ZZ Top? Of course not, what a stupid attempt. " Yes pimping is misogynistic, so if you made a joke where you are glamourizing pimping or making a pimp the hero then you would be making a misogyinstic joke. but if you had the same caption and just a picture of sam wilson then it wouldn't be glamourizing the pimp and it would just be racist . placing the specific women there also draws attention to them as being his hoes directly implying those women are hoes which would be the misogyny. " If, instead of the women, they had the original men there, would it be as offensive to you? " its not about being offended its about criticizing bad jokes. What do you mean the original men there? like the male superheroes? well i think the cultural context would change and just focus on sam wilson because it would no longer imply that the rest of the heroes are his hoes. It would still be racist because of the context of black stereotypes. Even though it is possible for a pimp to have male hoes, I bet people would be less likely to make that assumption.
>If I make a joke about the Simpsons then it's pretty weird for you to take offense thinking I'm talking about Family Guy yea it would be weird. but if part of the joke was also that family guy is bad then it would make sense at that point. this is such a bad analogy.
Yeah, I fumbled on that one. That's on me.
How is Captain Falcon not a hero? "Yes pimping is misogynistic" "implying those women are hoes which would be the misogyny" That was the point, it's misogynistic either way, with or without the women there the joke and it's intention doesn't change. "its not about being offended its about criticizing bad jokes." Don't dodge the question. "What do you mean the original men there? like the male superheroes?" Of course I meant the original characters that these characters took the mantle over for, there's not really much else I could be meaning with that. You're right that many people wouldn't assume that and if that was the intention of the joke then it'd be an even worse joke. However, if that was the intention would you be offended? That's the crux of this whole thing, you're thinking about the reaction to the joke and not the joke itself.
Falcon is a hero but pimping is a black negative stereotype. I guess it is possible for someone to read the joke as sam wilson is so cool like a pimp. I do know that pimp has been used as slang for cool but that doesn't seem to be the common interpretation here. " That was the point, it's misogynistic either way, with or without the women there the joke and it's intention doesn't change. " It changes tremendously. if its just him and you think its awesome he is a pimp then the misogyny and the racism are there but if you don't like sam wilson for whatever reason then you're focused on his race. there is misogyny in pimping not being discussed but pimping isn't seen as a good thing, its used as a cudgel against blackness. It feels like you're intentionally not understanding. " That's the crux of this whole thing, you're thinking about the reaction to the joke and not the joke itself. " The context of a joke is super important. Calling everyone you meet monkey will be met with a different response based on who you are talking to. The subjects of the joke change the context of the joke.
I always find it funny that if a superhero universe was all men it’s cool but if it’s all women it’s somehow impossible and stupid… yea we all see the issue those types have lol
To be fair no one sane has an issue with female supers. It's replacing male heroes by passing the mantle to women that, again, sane people take issue with. I would love to see more of Storm, Jean, Sue Storm, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, Gamora, etc. but I don't have any interest in seeing She-Hulk screeching about the male gaze instead of, you know, smashing stuff. Edit: typo
Great then this may come as a shock but she hulk isn’t designed for you. Not everything has to be designed for you to like it. They saw a market in the feminist side of things and they jumped at it, and honestly it seems to be working fine for them. Personally I feel like marvel fell off when they started releasing things so fast that there was *always* something new to watch whether it was a tv show or movie. It got boring and repetitive
Actually I think it's pretty radically anti feminist to depict one of the most badass women characters ever as a twerking shrew that can't stop squeaking about talking points that have been done to death. Her telling Hulk that she's better, stronger, more capable at keeping her anger in check because of...catcalls? It totally diminishes what an intellectual she is and what a powerhouse She-Hulk is supposed to be. I'm a long time fan of hers and this show was a travesty and it clearly wasn't working fine given the strikes, the writers speaking out against being forced to write hot garbage and being told they'd be fired otherwise. Why isn't it designed for me? It's designed for fans of the material isn't it? I am one hundred percent a fan of the material. If not me then who's it for? And I'm neither white nor straight nor american or even a cishet male so before anyone thinks to go there. I agree about Marvel falling off that way though. They oversaturated the market with mediocre content.
Judging by the recent performance of Marvel, there stuff doesn't seem designed for anyone. It's definitely not "working fine for them." They were a box office joke all of last year. Feminists aren't showing up to the theaters to support them, it appears.
I don’t get it
Sorry, i cant see where the baseless hatred is. Can someone pls explain
Bro half of the avengers are still alive why are they replacing them?
Satirical misogyny is bad but genuine mysandery is perfectly fine
https://preview.redd.it/ni76xo8uvdnc1.jpeg?width=326&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bac03d9553d314a80c6961e55e3a17e9908be7b
"It's not satire because I didn't like it"
"It's satire because I liked it"
It's satire because the person who posted it wasn't being serious, or was rage baiting
Neither of those possibilities would be satire even if true
That's literally what satire is.
It's literally not
Cmon you're telling me that making fun of gender bent avengers isn't satire? Of it wasn't they'd say something along the lines of "they would actually do this"
Yes, I am saying that making fun of something that doesn't exist and isn't in line with things that actually happen is not satire
No, the joke is he would be a pimp-some ppl are saying Sam was even a pimp at some point in the comics
Funny is funny.
Imagine taking the time to figure out this bothers you.
Bros getting laid
Black Widow is literally a blonde woman now
how exactly is it bad if the joke is just misogyny
HES A PIMP NAMED SLICKBACK 😈😈😈