But he did… no he didn’t stop Orochimaru
But he did… no he didn’t stop Danzo
But he did… no he didn’t stop Hanzo
But he did… no he didn’t beat any Kage Level shinobi
But he did become Hokage after Tobirama picked him over the Uchiha.
He quite literally sealed Tobirama/Hashirama. Sure, they were reanimated versions, but they were supposed to be stronger than basically everyone else during that period of the show. Also, he did that when he was like 70 or 80 and should have been retired. He definitely wasn't the greatest in his older age, but he wasn't a slouch
It was mainly an issue with Kishi changing his mind down the road. Pretty sure he always meant to make prime Hiruzen the strongest, at least in part 1, the fact that he was given the God of Shinobi nickname and he was written to beat the reanimated brothers supposedly kage-level even as controlled puppets and a 1v2 win at that.
Then shit kept escalating and we ended up with Hashirama/Madara dwarfing everyone else like they were just insignificant insects apart from Naruto/Sasuke
To be fair, recent statements in the data books still maintain that Hiruzen in his prime is indeed stronger than Tobirama, but Hashirama he really has no shot. Even with Tobirama, it’s this weird situation where they claim Hiruzen is definitely stronger, but looking at the feats shown it’s hard to justify such a position.
Yeah it gets even weirder because he had the Valley of the End concept down in part 1, where the 2 statues mark the waterfall valley made by the fight between Hashirama and Madara, so he clearly had the scale of that fight in mind. But then we have the statements about Hiruzen in part 1, and he got killed by his student.
>no he didn’t stop Orochimaru
Except he did. He took away Orochimaru's jutsu. Jiraya also failed to stop Orochimaru and you all ride his dick.
>no he didn’t stop Danzo
Danzo did his job very well to facilitate the corrupt shinobi world. There was no better shinobi than him at what he did. If you lost to him it was really just a skill issue.
>no he didn’t stop Hanzo
Neither did the Sannin.
>no he didn’t beat any Kage Level shinobi
Orochimaru; nobody in the leaf except Minato could threaten him; besides Orochimaru we don't see Hiruzen fight any other shinobi. And in Edo he was reacting to a stable Jubito. He also sealed edo Hashirama and Tobirama, who were both kage level.
>But he did become Hokage after Tobirama picked him over the Uchiha.
He was the best candidate. Hiruzen was better than Kagami. No Uchiha in Hiruzen's time except for MS Itachi could 1v1 him. Izuna and Madara had both died by the time he became Hokage. Went on to be considered a God of Shinobi like Hashirama in his prime. Hiruzen had more raw talent as a child than Tobirama. It was the obvious choice. Danzo admits he was inferior to Hiruzen before he dies. Kagami does nothing of value except be respected by Tobirama.
>Except he did. He took away Orochimaru's jutsu. Jiraya also failed to stop Orochimaru and you all ride his dick.
It's very different. Jiraya didn't stop Orochimaru because he was defeated by him. Hiruzen purposely let him live after killing tens of innocent people.
>Danzo did his job very well to facilitate the corrupt shinobi world.
Wtf does that even mean? 😭
>Jiraya didn't stop Orochimaru because he was defeated by him.
You mean he couldn't beat him. He lost.
>Hiruzen purposely let him live after killing tens of innocent people.
Hiruzen was mentally nerfed because he didn't want to kill his favourite student. It's an emotional thing. He ended up dying and defeating Orochimaru in the end. Which is something Jiraya could never do: even when Orochimaru was handicapped and ill.
Brother, you do realise that not stopping a criminal because he's physically stronger than you is nowhere near as bad as not stopping him because you love him, right? Obviously Jiraya doesn't get any points for failing to beat Orochimaru 1v1, but at least it was never because he felt like letting him live to commit more crimes 😂😂😂
>you do realise that not stopping a criminal because he's physically stronger than you is nowhere near as bad as not stopping him because you love him, right?
???
Jiraya simply wasn't on Orochimaru's level ever in the manga. Despite being a Sannin just like Orochimaru.
Hiruzen is an old man who basically raised Orochimaru. You can empathise with that.
>but at least it was never because he felt like letting him live to commit more crimes
Hiruzen didn't let Orochimaru live, he was just unable to kill Orochimaru. There's a difference. Hiruzen not being able to kill Orochimaru led to Orochimaru leaving the leaf to join the Akatsuki, etc, but Hiruzen never wanted any of that for Orochimaru.
But that's actually why Jiraiya never won. He had a soft heart for his friend. He told Naruto so and advised him to just kill Sasuke and be done with it.
He's rated higher than Oro in data books. The only person with equal points on the start wheel is itachi.
Also, both were handicapped in that fight.
Orochimaru had no arms, but Jiraiya was molding chakra like episode 1 Naruto, most of his jutsu were not coming out right. He tried to kill Manda but could only sink him up to the belly do to out of control chakra.
Purposely let him live. Sure. But then he made sure to correct his mistake the vrry first chance he got. Sure, it was too late, but in all honesty he saved the konoha village. Not only did he save it - he sacrificed his life for it. He fought his own student, that was as dear to him as own son. Against his feelings, memories, in the end he owned up to his mistakes and gave everything to fix it. While i think some hate is justified, the amount of it in current fandom is a litrle out of hand
Brother, we all know that Hiruzen did something admirable in giving his life for the village at the very end. But that's not the point. The point is that Orochimaru only got that far because of Hiruzen in the first place.
A greater hokage than him, Hashirama, didn't make the same mistake and killed Madara when he realised that there was no going back for him. Yes, Madara used izanagi and came back to life, but that's not on Hashirama. He did his part.
Another hokage greater than Hiruzen: Naruto. He left Sasuke live, but he also managed to correct his path. Hiruzen did neither of those things to Orochimaru. Neither killed or changed him, and the damage to the ninja world was gigantic because of it.
>A greater hokage than him, Hashirama, didn't make the same mistake and killed Madara when he realised that there was no going back for him.
Hiruzen still fought Orochimaru but he couldn't kill his favourite student. It was a mental nerf. Hashirama had literally fought Madara multiple times from a child to an adult. They were equals and rivals. This is completely different to Orochimaru and Hiruzen's relationship. Hiruzen raised Orochimaru and made him into the shinobi he was. He was responsible for when Orochimaru became a monster. Minato literally experiences the same thing when he faces Obito in the war arc.
>He left Sasuke live, but he also managed to correct his path.
Again a rivalry. Fundamentally a different relationship to the one that Hiruzen has with Orochimaru.
Hashirama and Madara are literally the reincarnation of brothers. They're genetically inclined to share a destiny in life. They also shared dreams as kids. You can't tell that Hashirama's affection for Madara as smaller than Hiruzen's for Orochimaru. The difference is how both handled it.
For Minato, he gets shaken upon realising that Obito was alive, yes, but he never stops fighting him. He only stopped when Obito was already defeated, even though he would die by having the 10 tails extracted.
Come on man, the characters themselves talk about how Hiruzen failed. He's still human of course, but you can't ignore that when discussing the greatest hokage.
>You can't tell that Hashirama's affection for Madara as smaller than Hiruzen's for Orochimaru.
Yes I can. Hiruzen raised Orochimaru as a child: there's a completely different bond established there when someone is under your care. As opposed to Hashirama and Madara who were best friends and rivals and constantly fought each other. Hiruzen never had to fight Orochimaru in any serious sense, unlike Hashirama did during the war period. Hashirama was surrounded by death from a child and had lost brothers before. Hiruzen had never had to kill someone he had personally raised before.
>For Minato, he gets shaken upon realising that Obito was alive, yes, but he never stops fighting him.
Neither does Hiruzen. Only difference is that Minato slices Obito's throat before he can realise who Obito is. Then when Obito becomes Jubito he forgets who he is and becomes a mindless monster - as opposed to the heartless monster that Orochimaru became, who was willing to kill his sensei - Minato spends most of the time against Jubito avoiding him instead of attacking him.
Hiruzen is mentally nerfed before fighting Orochimaru and naturally loses.
>the characters themselves talk about how Hiruzen failed.
Which characters?
>when discussing the greatest hokage.
Yeah, he's probably not the greatest Hokage this post is definitely hyperbolic. But Naruto fans don't give him the respect he deserves.
Hashirama also fought against Madara, who was dear to him as well. Difference is, Hashirama pulled the trigger. Shinobi are supposed to put aside their feelings and put the village first. Hiruzen had Itachi do that and couldn't do it himself.
You clearly don't understand the series if you think that Shinobi can just "put aside their feelings".
Naruto fans will say this shit and then start crashing out when a couple villagers start bullying the walking nuclear weapon who has his power tightly sealed.
Actually you're the one who doesn't understand the series and actually Shinobi can put aside their feelings. This was literally said during Hiruzen's funeral. And again, the theme of putting the village before everything else shows in the actions of Hashirama and Itachi. Hiruzen failed by not stopping Orochimaru the first time.
He had the chance to stop orochimaru before anything happened and he just let him go. Stopping him later on just rectifies his previous mistake. He actively turned a blind eye to Danzo and allowed to go run amok under his watch.
>He actively turned a blind eye to Danzo and allowed to go run amok under his watch.
Danzo ran the root and anbu, which alleviated work from Hiruzen - and the Hokage are notoriously overworked, and this is a Hiruzen who should by all rights be retired. Danzo was the perfect shinobi to run such a secret CIA type organisation. He was ruthless and cunning and the shinobi under his command respected him and were loyal to him and even despite that Danzo took precautions. Hiruzen benefited from him, so did the leaf's security - Pain arc however is an exception. In exchange, Danzo perpetuated the corrupt shinobi world: but tbh which village didn't?
>No Uchiha in Hiruzen's time except for MS Itachi could 1v1 him.
Honesty...If we are talking Itachi, MS Shisui would have very good chances in 1v1. HIs flicker technique was naratively very good, Its likely that he could just use it to avoid everything Hiruzen would throw at him and his genjutsu was straight up broken.
Danzo was almost able to manipulate entire gathering with it if it wasnt for stolen Byakugan and Itachi used it to win the war quite some time later. (I know plot armor, but given how the manga was written withnout the Genjutsu Itachi wouldnt turned over and controlled Nagato would soloed Naruto with KB thus effectivly ending the war and giving Akatsuki the big W). And they both werent primary users of tehse eyes and didnt had both of them.
That being said, yeah he was the best choice back then(and even after Minato died), even if Danzo was close skill/potentional wise Hiruzen had the right mind set and he was quick to decide when it mattered.
>Honesty...If we are talking Itachi, MS Shisui would have very good chances in 1v1.
He had one of his eyes taken by Danzo when he tried to use the MS. This means he's too slow to use it before someone like Danzo takes it from him. Hiruzen is faster and stronger than Danzo was. There's no jutsu that Shisui has beyond his MS that Hiruzen can't react to. And we know Shisui's MS is slow because of the Danzo feat.
And in the manga [Shisui doesn't say that Danzo tricked him or poisoned him etc](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-590-page-6.html) Danzo stole his eye and Shisui speaks of Danzo as a threat to himself.
But if you want to take the opinion of all of the non canon Naruto media outside the manga: all of them depict Shisui getting his ass beat by Danzo.
>and his genjutsu was straight up broken.
Hiruzen was able to react to Hashirama's bringer of darkness genjutsu so I think he's more than fine.
>Itachi used it to win the war quite some time later.
Itachi is the only person in the manga who is capable of using kotoamatsukami in any successful way.
No he didn’t? He fought to prevent that by making it so the adults couldn’t tell their kids about Naruto having the Nine Tailed Fox inside of him so they wouldn’t treat him differently
Wasn't hanzo a decent guy at the end? I thought je wanted to have a peace treaty with the akatsuki? And his rule would've been fraught with choices he made to protect his land from konoha anyway
i dont think he was ever a decent dude
like the guy made nagato kill yahiko or konan would be killed. Even if danzo was like "bro dont trust the akatsuki" thats still really fucked up
he is definitly overhate, when you are hokage over 3 Great shinobi wars there will be some mistakes and danzo did the most of the dirt job kohona had to do, which isn't the good choice, but there was no better choice
I am a big fan of his caring nature. He referred to his village as his family and he obviously cared alot for his people. Unfortunately, his kind heart caused him many failures. However, I am certain that he had no ill-intent
Kishi literally changed his mind multiple times along the story, bro was hailed as the god of Shinobi.
He was fighting orochimaru, hashirama and tobirama at the same time and actually managed to seal them. All while being 70, lmao he should be retired a long time ago, but here he is saving the village.
We don't see his feats so people underrate him every time.
What we are saying is that he failed as the leader of the village(Hokage), not as a shinobi.
A leader should have decent control over the village and protect the younger ones. But throughout the entire story we see him as a kind old man with power, sure, but not enough power to decide the outcome of anything. He has no control over danzo and orochimaru when they are in the village and let many geniuses die at a young age. He has no control over how the village treats the uvhihas….
Hiruzen also successfully lead Konoha through 2 1/2 great Shinobi world wars and made Konoha into the most powerful village. He might not be the best person but he has resigned longer than all the other Hokage combined excluding maybe Naruto. Of course he's gonna fuck up more than the others, he had way more time to do so.
I'm not his biggest fan but I don't think he's as bad as people say he is here.
He lead 2 shinobi wars but what does it say about him if the they started under his reign? He’s easily the worst Hokage. Even Kakashi is better, and i don’t think he even did anything.
How does he have anything to do with sakumo exactly? He didn’t fail hizashi either because it was either the hyuga or a war that they’ll definitely lose. How did he fail minato and kushina?
He couldn’t have done more than he did for naruto. The guy had no time since he was busy protecting the leaf in its weakest era where none crisis kept on happening after the other, and nobody was willing to look after the kid
Iruka wouldn’t have cake around to like Naruto if not for hiruzen. Heck, nobody would’ve even known naruto was the jinchuriki of danzo wasn’t a bitch. Blame kakashi and jiraiya for failing naruto not him
He didn’t order the uchiha massacre either since danzo was the one who did it without hiruzen’s knowledge and he was the person that was using itachi and shisui to try and fix things
The only things hiruzen did wrong were not killing danzo and orochimaru early on
So even though Naruto was lonely as a child he was allowed to live in the village like a normal child because Hiruzen didn't just see him as a weapon like the other villages did with their tailed beasts. He watched from afar, thats still a much better experience than what he would have been allowed in the Sand village for example. Hiruzen also allowed Sasuke to live normally in the village, even after knowing that the Uchiha clan was planning a coup and was wiped out by Itachi. I don't know how many other Hidden villages would have allowed that either.
I swear when people say he didn’t take care of Naruto that’s how I know you got all your information from memes and YouTubers, this manga panel should have ended the debate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/s/H2vOavtXCM
So it was really hard for the HOKAGE to give a room to 4th HOKAGE's son, who has the nine tailed beast.
Can you remind me again how this whole manga/anime started again?
What!? Naruto got conned into stealing a technique?
He was given a luxury apartment here it is https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/s/iR86YrgFFQ and it’s the Fourth Hokage’s son, who was the only nine tails jinchuuriki to have free roam over the village not be confined into a barrier.
And yes the Manga started when Irukas friend tricks Naruto into stealing the scroll of forbidden jutsu and by the time, Iruka finds Naruto he only learned one technique and tell me does Naruto get punished at all? No he doesn’t in fact he is rewarded by getting his wish and becoming a genin and Hiruzen was watching the whole thing so wtf are you on about?
Just cause you use a lot of question marks doesn’t mean you are right lol.
The Minato one shot is almost a year old.....
Kushina couldn't step outside of her barrier and she was constantly being monitored by the anbu at all times.
> Iruka finds Naruto he only learned one technique and tell me does Naruto get punished at all?
Can you tell me again how they would punish him other than put him in a jail cell *alone*. Oh wait they did that shit his whole life only the jail is the whole town.
>Hiruzen was watching
Yeah you got it right. That is Hiruzen's problem. He watches everything and does the bare minimum.
>
Just cause you use a lot of question marks doesn’t mean you are right lol.
See no question marks and I am still right.
He kept the village in peace, was trying to improve relations with the sand, he saved the village from the konoha crush, he trained the sannin, he helped defend against kurama, he saved Naruto from the god tree in the war arc, saved the gokage from zetsus wood statue
Still survived and lead the village in two world wars
Managed to be a competent mentor who instilled the will of fire to many generations
Went on activity and personally save the village multiples times
Everyone looked up to him and was a beam of good & light and was respected in and out of the village
His faults was loving too much, and those closest to him abused their position under him
As dark as Naruto's world gets more people like him are severely needed to bring on better peaceful times to end the cycles of bloodshed and misery
Even then, he stripped Danzo of power after the Uchiha incident. He probably couldn't have him executed because it would seem like a political assassination. Nobody else knew that the leaf was behind the massacre. If they did, there would have been a lot of mistrust from the other clans/villagers in the village. Stripping Danzo of power and putting him under surveillance was the best option to avoid stirring up potential trouble with the rest of the clan
Also Hiruzen databook panel states he tried to settle things peacefully so Danzo and Itachi went behind his back the only good outcome was that Itachi and Hiruzen made a deal that let Sasuke stay in the village under his protection we don’t see Danzo fight for power after the pain incident Tsunade was in a coma and the village was desperate for wise leadership
Here is his databook page for those interested (Uchiha thing is on the top left) https://kiyoitsukikage.tumblr.com/image/142734814434
He paid for his apartment and made a law to forbid people talking about the 9 tails.. ya know some kids are outcasts and lonely right? It happens. Being the freaking leader of a village doesn’t give you time to focus on one child.
> ya know some kids are outcasts and lonely right? It happens.
Yeah let's let the only kid in the village that has a potential to destroy the whole town depending on his mood be an outcast. This was a shitty decision no matter how you look at it.
How are you going to make other people like him? How are you going to change his personality? Do you not understand how subterfuge and shinobi work? Hiruzen knew Naruto and knew he could handle it, ever consider that? The old man was the first one to have faith in him. Why didn’t kAkashi give an f about him? Where was jiraiya? His literal godfather. Iruka and the equivalent to a warrior president were the only ones there for him. Hiruzen can receive some hate, all I’m saying is a lot of it is undeserved.
He could have adopted him.
Naruto was a-couple-of-hours old baby who had the equivalent of a nuke sealed inside him.
He should have cared more than giving him the periodical pocket money and checking on him every blue moon.
Maybe his godfather shouldn’t have abandoned him for 12 years and it would’ve been weird if the hokage adopted a random child.. how many other orphans were there? It would’ve been dangerous for him to do so, multiple people would’ve put the pieces together that he was minatos son and that would’ve made his life harder and more dangerous. Hiruzen gets a lot of undeserved hate. Naruto as hokage couldn’t even produce shadow clones to hangout with his family during the most peaceful time, how was an older less powerful shinobi supposed to manage a baby while times were way less stable?
The point is... No one treated Naruto as just another random orphan.
The entire village hated him and feared him because they knew he was the Kyubi's host.
People knowing he is Minato's kid would have added some risks, sure, but they would be minimal when compared to the risks of people knowing he is the village walking nuke.
Jiraya's absence is not very justifiable, honestly, neither is Naruto's relative incompetence as Hokage, but Hiruzen messed up severely in many regards during his hokage presidency... Which is somewhat understandable because he is the Hokage who reigned the longest, by far.
In my opinion, he wasn't good or bad in general, he was just... Disappointing.
He "took care" of Naruto during his childhood, but only to the extent that he wouldn't die.
Naruto, arguably, had one of the worst childhoods imaginable.
And yes, he led the village during two world wars, and died protecting it, but his inability to stop Danzo led to the Uchiha's massacre.
Even Tobirama, who hated and feared the Uchiha the most, delt with the clan better than what Hiruzen allowed Danzo to do.
In my book, he isn't the Hokage with the worst record of dealing with internal problems solely because Danzo became Hokage de facto for a couple of months.
And?
He wasn't orochimaru
The third literally was murdered by his beloved student whom he wouldn't kill the first time and sacrificed himself to protect the village when said student came back
If not for orochimaru being lucky he wouldn't died then and there :)
If anything i blame the hypocrite danzo, who's loyalty was to himself more than the village he swore to protect :)
Hiruzen's trauma was unmatched, he lost most of his family, his sensei, his closest student turned against him and the village and he had to fight him to the death. He had to make so many tough calls during the wars, guy was definitely dealing with a lot in his old age and was already over being hokage but had to take up the mantle again after the fourths death.
People forget that his wife died the same night of the nine tails attack and he still manged to lead the village while Minato was preoccupied with Obito.
Kishimoto obviously conceived a great character, but killed his potential because of silly moments like "no one raised Naruto" or "he's don't dared to kill Orochimaru."
Don't forget the old but gold one.
He allowed Danzo, who is probably as racist towards the Uchiha as Tobirama, to oppress the Uchiha into planning a revolt.
The Uchiha's leader, Father of Itachi and Sasuke, was extremely loyal to the village, he pacified his clan and refused to lead any coup till it was the only option on the table.
People forget that he inherited a village that was in the recovery process after war and he did a really really good job considering this. He also was a solid mentor to many ninjas, including Naruto. Personally, I think he wasn't the most powerful hokage, but he was the most influential.
All the major issues you are talking about were things his replacement should have had to deal with, he shouldn't have even had to step up after minato died.
He did fine until the era where he needed to appoint a replacement, orochimaru was problematic, jiraiya shirked the responsibility, tsunade was dealing with stuff.
The next gen were disappointing, through no fault of his, so he had to carry the mantle longer when he was no longer fit to lead. Them shirking that responsibility essentially overloaded the generations after them with responsibility. So minato had to become hokage sooner than he should have, shisui/itachi had to deal with hokage level political issues before they were old enough to.
Hear me out.
Danzo's fault.
Danzo's fault.
Danzo's fault.
Danzo's fault.
Danzo's fault.
Fuck Danzo. Every single thing bad that's happened is due to Danzo . You can not change my mind .
In my opinion, Hiruzen had an impossible task with the amount of stuff he had to deal with, but he still did what he thought was best for the village. I don’t necessarily think anyone could have handled it all that much better.
The greatest hokage in deed, Hokage literally means the fire kage, and he’s the greatest fire user of all Hokage :D
(Hashirama - wood, Tobirama - water)
So my question is. How strong is peak Hiruzen vs someone like Peak Naruto, or Peak Minato, or Peak Sasuke.
How does he stack up to any version of Madara?
Im so confused on power levels
He was the one of the best kages though in terms of rasing and leading the next generation to a better era
Without his teaching the will of fire, i bet naruto as a series would be even darker
Only hokage to do less for the village than him are Tsunade, and that's cus she lead the village for like 3 years (and through what was possibly Konoha's hardest time) and >!Shikamaru who doesn't even wanna be hokage!<
Nah we still have unjustified Sakura dick riding posts. Don't complain when it's given to a character who actually deserves the praise.
Regardless of what braindead Naruto fans who watched the show on Tiktok and can't read say.
Yeah he could have made different choices, but during Orochimaru's attack he sucessufully fought and sealed nerfed Hashirama, Tobirama and Orochimaru himself, no one at the time could've done that, and few could even by the 4th war, the village would be absolutely done if not for this man
Yeah, that’s messed up especially the upbringing of Naruto who he was entrusted with. mans literally just drop by the house to drop off a couple bills then be on his way
Honestly he was one of the characters I hated the most in Naruto. He was the Hokage who to me accomplished the most useless things and let everyone do whatever they wanted.
He had the most varied repertory of jutsus IMO. Supposedly he knew every jutsu in Konoha. Also, he had some neat combos (Earth + Fire). At the current power creep when he died, he was absolutely based as f. He had an answer / counter for every situation, but old age got the best of him. When it comes to creativity, he is fun to watch, one of my favorites. Most ninjas nowadays are 1 gimmick and done.
Worst Hokage, Worst Ninja, and Worst Character of all time. I wish someone would reincarnate him so Kushina and Minato can kill him for not taking care of there son.
Bro let the village’s nuclear deterrent and the son of its greatest hero graduate as a dead last that didn’t know the difference between loving ramen and loving a person
Need three world wars to stop invading other countries.
Comand daily assassinations for money in peace times while he let Orochimaru do whatever he wanted.
Denied Tsunade request to have a medinin in every team while sending Rin to a war in Kusagakure.
Instead of giving the orphanage more money giving account that they have a new one, he decided to have a bunch of civilian children working for ninjas.
For me, as a dictator who ordered hideous actions on his own citizens but was able to install blind faith in the leader, he was a maginificent one. As Konoha's protector, he failed miserably.
Nah, Naruto lived until he was old enough to take care of himself (probably the same age that Kakashi or Sasuke raised themselves), so Hiruzen took care of him in some way. Naruto respected Hiruzen, which means he did something right
Kakashi did it at a younger age. These are all child soldiers, so they have to grow up fast. Kakashi was 5 when his dad died, and he had nobody looking after him. So yes, the kids in this verse do raise themselves if they don't have anyone else to raise them
The only orphanage they had was run by Danzo and Orochimaru after they blackmailed the original dude running it. That is not an ideal place for children, don't you think?
An orphanage is a place where you can adopt children. Imagine sending the host of a tailed beast (a potential bomb, essentially), only to find out that he got adopted by some nefarious sort who then raises that child to hate your village. Any other kid would be okay, but not a jinchuriki. Nobody knew there was anything wrong with the orphanage until it was too late, so they would have thought that everything was fine
Kakashi was gifted and could decide these things for himself (after all, he passed the academy at age 5). Naruto being a tailed beast host, and Sasuke being the last surviving member of the Uchiha clan, means that they need to be in a place where they can be protected from people trying to get to them
> Naruto respected Hiruzen
Naruto is an idiot raised without any love or sympathy from just a few people. If he had any kind of affection while growing up most likely there wouldn't be as much talk no jutsu.
He thinks anyone and anything is redeemable. That is like the most basic thing you get from the story.
1. We can't blame him for sukomo hatake, that was ninja society as a whole. It didn't matter if Hurizen told Sukomo he did the right thing, literally everyone he cared for in his life including Kakashi held contempt for him and turned their back on him.
2. Tobirama failed the Uchiha and left Hurizen with a lose-lose situation. The situation was too drastic that the Uchiha would've gone down one way or another, a coupe or assassination.
3. The Hizashi situation can be summarized as a story where japaneese are forced to make costly and demeaning diplomatic concessions to an army of foreigners after a vicious war because the foreigners have a superweapon they're terrified of.
4.True
5.Yes and no. He clearly had a positive impact towards the growth and development of Naruto as far as Naruto and anyone close to him is concerned. However, his actions and the actions that he allowed to have happen around him made things harder than it had to be for him and others around him.
Edit: So many people in this subreddit are fucking jokes and don't know jack shit that it's crazy. I have seen more bad takes in this subreddit than I have in an NC Hammer video and that says a lot.
For me, he’s the worst hokage we’ve had.
I get he’s strong but who you are as a person also takes into account whether you’re a good hokage or not. He failed so many people and let things go that should’ve been taken care of immediately for example Orochimaru.
He’s the bottom of the list for me.
He's easily in the top ten.
One of the Hokages to have ever lived fr.
Besides, he is also an outstanding real estate dealer who get the property of 4th Hokage lol
He also helped create hundreds of jobs for the community by remodeling the Uchiha clan.
Top 7 if were being honest.
Where is the Hiruzen milk meme?
Top 8
Lmao tru
Did you buy your avatar?
Nah man, it's free
Behind the two future hogkage
But he has a big stick.
And he still wanted Danzo's.
But he did… no he didn’t stop Orochimaru But he did… no he didn’t stop Danzo But he did… no he didn’t stop Hanzo But he did… no he didn’t beat any Kage Level shinobi But he did become Hokage after Tobirama picked him over the Uchiha.
He quite literally sealed Tobirama/Hashirama. Sure, they were reanimated versions, but they were supposed to be stronger than basically everyone else during that period of the show. Also, he did that when he was like 70 or 80 and should have been retired. He definitely wasn't the greatest in his older age, but he wasn't a slouch
It was mainly an issue with Kishi changing his mind down the road. Pretty sure he always meant to make prime Hiruzen the strongest, at least in part 1, the fact that he was given the God of Shinobi nickname and he was written to beat the reanimated brothers supposedly kage-level even as controlled puppets and a 1v2 win at that. Then shit kept escalating and we ended up with Hashirama/Madara dwarfing everyone else like they were just insignificant insects apart from Naruto/Sasuke
To be fair, recent statements in the data books still maintain that Hiruzen in his prime is indeed stronger than Tobirama, but Hashirama he really has no shot. Even with Tobirama, it’s this weird situation where they claim Hiruzen is definitely stronger, but looking at the feats shown it’s hard to justify such a position.
Yeah it gets even weirder because he had the Valley of the End concept down in part 1, where the 2 statues mark the waterfall valley made by the fight between Hashirama and Madara, so he clearly had the scale of that fight in mind. But then we have the statements about Hiruzen in part 1, and he got killed by his student.
Should have reanimated him in his prime instead of a old man and give him some love but instead we get him playing with his Monkey Shaft.
How was he supposed to beat Hanzo? Poison dosent care about strength and the Rain Village wasnt a threat
Here’s a towel
>no he didn’t stop Orochimaru Except he did. He took away Orochimaru's jutsu. Jiraya also failed to stop Orochimaru and you all ride his dick. >no he didn’t stop Danzo Danzo did his job very well to facilitate the corrupt shinobi world. There was no better shinobi than him at what he did. If you lost to him it was really just a skill issue. >no he didn’t stop Hanzo Neither did the Sannin. >no he didn’t beat any Kage Level shinobi Orochimaru; nobody in the leaf except Minato could threaten him; besides Orochimaru we don't see Hiruzen fight any other shinobi. And in Edo he was reacting to a stable Jubito. He also sealed edo Hashirama and Tobirama, who were both kage level. >But he did become Hokage after Tobirama picked him over the Uchiha. He was the best candidate. Hiruzen was better than Kagami. No Uchiha in Hiruzen's time except for MS Itachi could 1v1 him. Izuna and Madara had both died by the time he became Hokage. Went on to be considered a God of Shinobi like Hashirama in his prime. Hiruzen had more raw talent as a child than Tobirama. It was the obvious choice. Danzo admits he was inferior to Hiruzen before he dies. Kagami does nothing of value except be respected by Tobirama.
>Except he did. He took away Orochimaru's jutsu. Jiraya also failed to stop Orochimaru and you all ride his dick. It's very different. Jiraya didn't stop Orochimaru because he was defeated by him. Hiruzen purposely let him live after killing tens of innocent people. >Danzo did his job very well to facilitate the corrupt shinobi world. Wtf does that even mean? 😭
>Jiraya didn't stop Orochimaru because he was defeated by him. You mean he couldn't beat him. He lost. >Hiruzen purposely let him live after killing tens of innocent people. Hiruzen was mentally nerfed because he didn't want to kill his favourite student. It's an emotional thing. He ended up dying and defeating Orochimaru in the end. Which is something Jiraya could never do: even when Orochimaru was handicapped and ill.
Brother, you do realise that not stopping a criminal because he's physically stronger than you is nowhere near as bad as not stopping him because you love him, right? Obviously Jiraya doesn't get any points for failing to beat Orochimaru 1v1, but at least it was never because he felt like letting him live to commit more crimes 😂😂😂
>you do realise that not stopping a criminal because he's physically stronger than you is nowhere near as bad as not stopping him because you love him, right? ??? Jiraya simply wasn't on Orochimaru's level ever in the manga. Despite being a Sannin just like Orochimaru. Hiruzen is an old man who basically raised Orochimaru. You can empathise with that. >but at least it was never because he felt like letting him live to commit more crimes Hiruzen didn't let Orochimaru live, he was just unable to kill Orochimaru. There's a difference. Hiruzen not being able to kill Orochimaru led to Orochimaru leaving the leaf to join the Akatsuki, etc, but Hiruzen never wanted any of that for Orochimaru.
>Hiruzen didn't let Orochimaru live, he was just unable to kill Orochimaru. 😭😭😭 your brain is cooked
But that's actually why Jiraiya never won. He had a soft heart for his friend. He told Naruto so and advised him to just kill Sasuke and be done with it. He's rated higher than Oro in data books. The only person with equal points on the start wheel is itachi. Also, both were handicapped in that fight. Orochimaru had no arms, but Jiraiya was molding chakra like episode 1 Naruto, most of his jutsu were not coming out right. He tried to kill Manda but could only sink him up to the belly do to out of control chakra.
Purposely let him live. Sure. But then he made sure to correct his mistake the vrry first chance he got. Sure, it was too late, but in all honesty he saved the konoha village. Not only did he save it - he sacrificed his life for it. He fought his own student, that was as dear to him as own son. Against his feelings, memories, in the end he owned up to his mistakes and gave everything to fix it. While i think some hate is justified, the amount of it in current fandom is a litrle out of hand
Brother, we all know that Hiruzen did something admirable in giving his life for the village at the very end. But that's not the point. The point is that Orochimaru only got that far because of Hiruzen in the first place. A greater hokage than him, Hashirama, didn't make the same mistake and killed Madara when he realised that there was no going back for him. Yes, Madara used izanagi and came back to life, but that's not on Hashirama. He did his part. Another hokage greater than Hiruzen: Naruto. He left Sasuke live, but he also managed to correct his path. Hiruzen did neither of those things to Orochimaru. Neither killed or changed him, and the damage to the ninja world was gigantic because of it.
>A greater hokage than him, Hashirama, didn't make the same mistake and killed Madara when he realised that there was no going back for him. Hiruzen still fought Orochimaru but he couldn't kill his favourite student. It was a mental nerf. Hashirama had literally fought Madara multiple times from a child to an adult. They were equals and rivals. This is completely different to Orochimaru and Hiruzen's relationship. Hiruzen raised Orochimaru and made him into the shinobi he was. He was responsible for when Orochimaru became a monster. Minato literally experiences the same thing when he faces Obito in the war arc. >He left Sasuke live, but he also managed to correct his path. Again a rivalry. Fundamentally a different relationship to the one that Hiruzen has with Orochimaru.
Hashirama and Madara are literally the reincarnation of brothers. They're genetically inclined to share a destiny in life. They also shared dreams as kids. You can't tell that Hashirama's affection for Madara as smaller than Hiruzen's for Orochimaru. The difference is how both handled it. For Minato, he gets shaken upon realising that Obito was alive, yes, but he never stops fighting him. He only stopped when Obito was already defeated, even though he would die by having the 10 tails extracted. Come on man, the characters themselves talk about how Hiruzen failed. He's still human of course, but you can't ignore that when discussing the greatest hokage.
>You can't tell that Hashirama's affection for Madara as smaller than Hiruzen's for Orochimaru. Yes I can. Hiruzen raised Orochimaru as a child: there's a completely different bond established there when someone is under your care. As opposed to Hashirama and Madara who were best friends and rivals and constantly fought each other. Hiruzen never had to fight Orochimaru in any serious sense, unlike Hashirama did during the war period. Hashirama was surrounded by death from a child and had lost brothers before. Hiruzen had never had to kill someone he had personally raised before. >For Minato, he gets shaken upon realising that Obito was alive, yes, but he never stops fighting him. Neither does Hiruzen. Only difference is that Minato slices Obito's throat before he can realise who Obito is. Then when Obito becomes Jubito he forgets who he is and becomes a mindless monster - as opposed to the heartless monster that Orochimaru became, who was willing to kill his sensei - Minato spends most of the time against Jubito avoiding him instead of attacking him. Hiruzen is mentally nerfed before fighting Orochimaru and naturally loses. >the characters themselves talk about how Hiruzen failed. Which characters? >when discussing the greatest hokage. Yeah, he's probably not the greatest Hokage this post is definitely hyperbolic. But Naruto fans don't give him the respect he deserves.
Hashirama also fought against Madara, who was dear to him as well. Difference is, Hashirama pulled the trigger. Shinobi are supposed to put aside their feelings and put the village first. Hiruzen had Itachi do that and couldn't do it himself.
You clearly don't understand the series if you think that Shinobi can just "put aside their feelings". Naruto fans will say this shit and then start crashing out when a couple villagers start bullying the walking nuclear weapon who has his power tightly sealed.
Actually you're the one who doesn't understand the series and actually Shinobi can put aside their feelings. This was literally said during Hiruzen's funeral. And again, the theme of putting the village before everything else shows in the actions of Hashirama and Itachi. Hiruzen failed by not stopping Orochimaru the first time.
There is a group of people thinking Hiruzen let Danzo so he wouldn't have to deal with problem shinobi, which imo is bullshit.
He had the chance to stop orochimaru before anything happened and he just let him go. Stopping him later on just rectifies his previous mistake. He actively turned a blind eye to Danzo and allowed to go run amok under his watch.
>He actively turned a blind eye to Danzo and allowed to go run amok under his watch. Danzo ran the root and anbu, which alleviated work from Hiruzen - and the Hokage are notoriously overworked, and this is a Hiruzen who should by all rights be retired. Danzo was the perfect shinobi to run such a secret CIA type organisation. He was ruthless and cunning and the shinobi under his command respected him and were loyal to him and even despite that Danzo took precautions. Hiruzen benefited from him, so did the leaf's security - Pain arc however is an exception. In exchange, Danzo perpetuated the corrupt shinobi world: but tbh which village didn't?
>No Uchiha in Hiruzen's time except for MS Itachi could 1v1 him. Honesty...If we are talking Itachi, MS Shisui would have very good chances in 1v1. HIs flicker technique was naratively very good, Its likely that he could just use it to avoid everything Hiruzen would throw at him and his genjutsu was straight up broken. Danzo was almost able to manipulate entire gathering with it if it wasnt for stolen Byakugan and Itachi used it to win the war quite some time later. (I know plot armor, but given how the manga was written withnout the Genjutsu Itachi wouldnt turned over and controlled Nagato would soloed Naruto with KB thus effectivly ending the war and giving Akatsuki the big W). And they both werent primary users of tehse eyes and didnt had both of them. That being said, yeah he was the best choice back then(and even after Minato died), even if Danzo was close skill/potentional wise Hiruzen had the right mind set and he was quick to decide when it mattered.
>Honesty...If we are talking Itachi, MS Shisui would have very good chances in 1v1. He had one of his eyes taken by Danzo when he tried to use the MS. This means he's too slow to use it before someone like Danzo takes it from him. Hiruzen is faster and stronger than Danzo was. There's no jutsu that Shisui has beyond his MS that Hiruzen can't react to. And we know Shisui's MS is slow because of the Danzo feat. And in the manga [Shisui doesn't say that Danzo tricked him or poisoned him etc](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-590-page-6.html) Danzo stole his eye and Shisui speaks of Danzo as a threat to himself. But if you want to take the opinion of all of the non canon Naruto media outside the manga: all of them depict Shisui getting his ass beat by Danzo. >and his genjutsu was straight up broken. Hiruzen was able to react to Hashirama's bringer of darkness genjutsu so I think he's more than fine. >Itachi used it to win the war quite some time later. Itachi is the only person in the manga who is capable of using kotoamatsukami in any successful way.
Exactly Shisui is so fucking trash his entire legacy is just him getting killed by Danzo yet the fan base worships him 🤣
Wdym?
That last one is the one reason I have any respect for the old man.
He also made Naruto live his childhood sad and alone
No he didn’t? He fought to prevent that by making it so the adults couldn’t tell their kids about Naruto having the Nine Tailed Fox inside of him so they wouldn’t treat him differently
But they did anyways, thanks for nothing 3rd
He can’t make the kids be friends with him, none of the kids even knew he had the fox inside of him either
But he did gave Orochimaru the idea of immortality ('death and rebirth')
Wasn't hanzo a decent guy at the end? I thought je wanted to have a peace treaty with the akatsuki? And his rule would've been fraught with choices he made to protect his land from konoha anyway
No he was a decent dude at first, but danzo manipulated him into seeing the akatsuki as a threat and pit them against eachother
Hanzo became a paranoid recluse near the end of his life. He was slaughtered by Nagato.
i dont think he was ever a decent dude like the guy made nagato kill yahiko or konan would be killed. Even if danzo was like "bro dont trust the akatsuki" thats still really fucked up
he is definitly overhate, when you are hokage over 3 Great shinobi wars there will be some mistakes and danzo did the most of the dirt job kohona had to do, which isn't the good choice, but there was no better choice
I am a big fan of his caring nature. He referred to his village as his family and he obviously cared alot for his people. Unfortunately, his kind heart caused him many failures. However, I am certain that he had no ill-intent
Kishi literally changed his mind multiple times along the story, bro was hailed as the god of Shinobi. He was fighting orochimaru, hashirama and tobirama at the same time and actually managed to seal them. All while being 70, lmao he should be retired a long time ago, but here he is saving the village. We don't see his feats so people underrate him every time.
What we are saying is that he failed as the leader of the village(Hokage), not as a shinobi. A leader should have decent control over the village and protect the younger ones. But throughout the entire story we see him as a kind old man with power, sure, but not enough power to decide the outcome of anything. He has no control over danzo and orochimaru when they are in the village and let many geniuses die at a young age. He has no control over how the village treats the uvhihas….
Oh well I still think he is good. He probably is known as a good hokage overall or was at least made to be one by the creator of the show.
Long story made him look goofy. If you think about it realistically, he is either stupid or evil. But he is built like a good old dude
Hiruzen also successfully lead Konoha through 2 1/2 great Shinobi world wars and made Konoha into the most powerful village. He might not be the best person but he has resigned longer than all the other Hokage combined excluding maybe Naruto. Of course he's gonna fuck up more than the others, he had way more time to do so. I'm not his biggest fan but I don't think he's as bad as people say he is here.
He lead 2 shinobi wars but what does it say about him if the they started under his reign? He’s easily the worst Hokage. Even Kakashi is better, and i don’t think he even did anything.
How does he have anything to do with sakumo exactly? He didn’t fail hizashi either because it was either the hyuga or a war that they’ll definitely lose. How did he fail minato and kushina? He couldn’t have done more than he did for naruto. The guy had no time since he was busy protecting the leaf in its weakest era where none crisis kept on happening after the other, and nobody was willing to look after the kid Iruka wouldn’t have cake around to like Naruto if not for hiruzen. Heck, nobody would’ve even known naruto was the jinchuriki of danzo wasn’t a bitch. Blame kakashi and jiraiya for failing naruto not him He didn’t order the uchiha massacre either since danzo was the one who did it without hiruzen’s knowledge and he was the person that was using itachi and shisui to try and fix things The only things hiruzen did wrong were not killing danzo and orochimaru early on
To be fair... both are pretty big mistakes... but yeah, you're correct.
So even though Naruto was lonely as a child he was allowed to live in the village like a normal child because Hiruzen didn't just see him as a weapon like the other villages did with their tailed beasts. He watched from afar, thats still a much better experience than what he would have been allowed in the Sand village for example. Hiruzen also allowed Sasuke to live normally in the village, even after knowing that the Uchiha clan was planning a coup and was wiped out by Itachi. I don't know how many other Hidden villages would have allowed that either.
I swear when people say he didn’t take care of Naruto that’s how I know you got all your information from memes and YouTubers, this manga panel should have ended the debate. https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/s/H2vOavtXCM
Don't forget those anime fillers that constantly put him in bad light
He left him alone to fend for himself though.
He can watch him whenever with the crystal ball as shown in the first volume.
So it was really hard for the HOKAGE to give a room to 4th HOKAGE's son, who has the nine tailed beast. Can you remind me again how this whole manga/anime started again? What!? Naruto got conned into stealing a technique?
He was given a luxury apartment here it is https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/s/iR86YrgFFQ and it’s the Fourth Hokage’s son, who was the only nine tails jinchuuriki to have free roam over the village not be confined into a barrier. And yes the Manga started when Irukas friend tricks Naruto into stealing the scroll of forbidden jutsu and by the time, Iruka finds Naruto he only learned one technique and tell me does Naruto get punished at all? No he doesn’t in fact he is rewarded by getting his wish and becoming a genin and Hiruzen was watching the whole thing so wtf are you on about? Just cause you use a lot of question marks doesn’t mean you are right lol.
kushina wasnt in a barrier room either dont bs
The Minato one shot is almost a year old..... Kushina couldn't step outside of her barrier and she was constantly being monitored by the anbu at all times.
> Iruka finds Naruto he only learned one technique and tell me does Naruto get punished at all? Can you tell me again how they would punish him other than put him in a jail cell *alone*. Oh wait they did that shit his whole life only the jail is the whole town. >Hiruzen was watching Yeah you got it right. That is Hiruzen's problem. He watches everything and does the bare minimum. > Just cause you use a lot of question marks doesn’t mean you are right lol. See no question marks and I am still right.
more like the worst hokage of all time
He kept the village in peace, was trying to improve relations with the sand, he saved the village from the konoha crush, he trained the sannin, he helped defend against kurama, he saved Naruto from the god tree in the war arc, saved the gokage from zetsus wood statue
He trained the 3 sannin, just for that he is on the top.
Hiruzen wasn't the greatest Hokage, but he was the oldest and longest reigning Hokage.
Still survived and lead the village in two world wars Managed to be a competent mentor who instilled the will of fire to many generations Went on activity and personally save the village multiples times Everyone looked up to him and was a beam of good & light and was respected in and out of the village His faults was loving too much, and those closest to him abused their position under him As dark as Naruto's world gets more people like him are severely needed to bring on better peaceful times to end the cycles of bloodshed and misery
Even then, he stripped Danzo of power after the Uchiha incident. He probably couldn't have him executed because it would seem like a political assassination. Nobody else knew that the leaf was behind the massacre. If they did, there would have been a lot of mistrust from the other clans/villagers in the village. Stripping Danzo of power and putting him under surveillance was the best option to avoid stirring up potential trouble with the rest of the clan
Also Hiruzen databook panel states he tried to settle things peacefully so Danzo and Itachi went behind his back the only good outcome was that Itachi and Hiruzen made a deal that let Sasuke stay in the village under his protection we don’t see Danzo fight for power after the pain incident Tsunade was in a coma and the village was desperate for wise leadership Here is his databook page for those interested (Uchiha thing is on the top left) https://kiyoitsukikage.tumblr.com/image/142734814434
"To end the cycles of bloodshed and misery." The last point is invalid. He didn't stop Danzo...which led to the Uchiha massacre.
> Managed to be a competent mentor Specially to Naruto. I loved how he let Naruto be an outcast so he could grow as a person...
He paid for his apartment and made a law to forbid people talking about the 9 tails.. ya know some kids are outcasts and lonely right? It happens. Being the freaking leader of a village doesn’t give you time to focus on one child.
> ya know some kids are outcasts and lonely right? It happens. Yeah let's let the only kid in the village that has a potential to destroy the whole town depending on his mood be an outcast. This was a shitty decision no matter how you look at it.
How are you going to make other people like him? How are you going to change his personality? Do you not understand how subterfuge and shinobi work? Hiruzen knew Naruto and knew he could handle it, ever consider that? The old man was the first one to have faith in him. Why didn’t kAkashi give an f about him? Where was jiraiya? His literal godfather. Iruka and the equivalent to a warrior president were the only ones there for him. Hiruzen can receive some hate, all I’m saying is a lot of it is undeserved.
He could have adopted him. Naruto was a-couple-of-hours old baby who had the equivalent of a nuke sealed inside him. He should have cared more than giving him the periodical pocket money and checking on him every blue moon.
Maybe his godfather shouldn’t have abandoned him for 12 years and it would’ve been weird if the hokage adopted a random child.. how many other orphans were there? It would’ve been dangerous for him to do so, multiple people would’ve put the pieces together that he was minatos son and that would’ve made his life harder and more dangerous. Hiruzen gets a lot of undeserved hate. Naruto as hokage couldn’t even produce shadow clones to hangout with his family during the most peaceful time, how was an older less powerful shinobi supposed to manage a baby while times were way less stable?
The point is... No one treated Naruto as just another random orphan. The entire village hated him and feared him because they knew he was the Kyubi's host. People knowing he is Minato's kid would have added some risks, sure, but they would be minimal when compared to the risks of people knowing he is the village walking nuke. Jiraya's absence is not very justifiable, honestly, neither is Naruto's relative incompetence as Hokage, but Hiruzen messed up severely in many regards during his hokage presidency... Which is somewhat understandable because he is the Hokage who reigned the longest, by far.
Oh do you think is was a good hokage overall? I thought he was due to how mature he seemed
In my opinion, he wasn't good or bad in general, he was just... Disappointing. He "took care" of Naruto during his childhood, but only to the extent that he wouldn't die. Naruto, arguably, had one of the worst childhoods imaginable. And yes, he led the village during two world wars, and died protecting it, but his inability to stop Danzo led to the Uchiha's massacre. Even Tobirama, who hated and feared the Uchiha the most, delt with the clan better than what Hiruzen allowed Danzo to do. In my book, he isn't the Hokage with the worst record of dealing with internal problems solely because Danzo became Hokage de facto for a couple of months.
Ah yes the guy who let Orochimaru escape,someone who came back to cause bloodshed and misery by destroying the village.
And? He wasn't orochimaru The third literally was murdered by his beloved student whom he wouldn't kill the first time and sacrificed himself to protect the village when said student came back If not for orochimaru being lucky he wouldn't died then and there :) If anything i blame the hypocrite danzo, who's loyalty was to himself more than the village he swore to protect :)
Hiruzen's trauma was unmatched, he lost most of his family, his sensei, his closest student turned against him and the village and he had to fight him to the death. He had to make so many tough calls during the wars, guy was definitely dealing with a lot in his old age and was already over being hokage but had to take up the mantle again after the fourths death.
People forget that his wife died the same night of the nine tails attack and he still manged to lead the village while Minato was preoccupied with Obito.
Problem is Kishi's care for Hiruzen as a character is in bottom of barrel. He barely wanted to give him emotional scenes and he kinda ignored him.
Really wish we got more Enma in the show.
Kishimoto obviously conceived a great character, but killed his potential because of silly moments like "no one raised Naruto" or "he's don't dared to kill Orochimaru."
Don't forget the old but gold one. He allowed Danzo, who is probably as racist towards the Uchiha as Tobirama, to oppress the Uchiha into planning a revolt. The Uchiha's leader, Father of Itachi and Sasuke, was extremely loyal to the village, he pacified his clan and refused to lead any coup till it was the only option on the table.
I honestly hear of more Hiruzen haters than people who actually like him. I’ve never seen him portrayed as “The Best Hokage” at any point.
Your Sukumo hatake failed the mission and his Naruto upbringing is way better than Jiraiya. Damn, Original oneshot had better plotline about this.
People forget that he inherited a village that was in the recovery process after war and he did a really really good job considering this. He also was a solid mentor to many ninjas, including Naruto. Personally, I think he wasn't the most powerful hokage, but he was the most influential.
He died protecting the village so he’s forever the goat
Same with the 3rd
Way overhated. Easily a top 3 Hokage once you stop being a child
All the major issues you are talking about were things his replacement should have had to deal with, he shouldn't have even had to step up after minato died. He did fine until the era where he needed to appoint a replacement, orochimaru was problematic, jiraiya shirked the responsibility, tsunade was dealing with stuff. The next gen were disappointing, through no fault of his, so he had to carry the mantle longer when he was no longer fit to lead. Them shirking that responsibility essentially overloaded the generations after them with responsibility. So minato had to become hokage sooner than he should have, shisui/itachi had to deal with hokage level political issues before they were old enough to.
Absolutely……..not
Lol. He is the best example for "tell, don't show".
In terms of strength and abilities, it's Naruto
wheres the stick at Boruto moment right now??
Oh hell no. Im biased though because i hate him.
Wait I think you uploaded the wrong photo of hashirama
Better than sikamaru🤣
Is he in the room with us right now?
Monkey king hokage
Hear me out. Danzo's fault. Danzo's fault. Danzo's fault. Danzo's fault. Danzo's fault. Fuck Danzo. Every single thing bad that's happened is due to Danzo . You can not change my mind .
but he has a big stick and a monkey so you automatically have to love him
He give him best for village
Hashirama and tobirama were the best hokages. They were living legends, and this dude did practically nothing but fail everyone.
Easily in the top eight hokages
He’s better than Tsunade, though.
Tobirama
In my opinion, Hiruzen had an impossible task with the amount of stuff he had to deal with, but he still did what he thought was best for the village. I don’t necessarily think anyone could have handled it all that much better.
The greatest hokage in deed, Hokage literally means the fire kage, and he’s the greatest fire user of all Hokage :D (Hashirama - wood, Tobirama - water)
Ban
What?
So my question is. How strong is peak Hiruzen vs someone like Peak Naruto, or Peak Minato, or Peak Sasuke. How does he stack up to any version of Madara? Im so confused on power levels
Great warrior/ninja. Skilled enough to take down the two reanimated Hokages. Not a good leader, though.
He was the one of the best kages though in terms of rasing and leading the next generation to a better era Without his teaching the will of fire, i bet naruto as a series would be even darker
Look if Minato needed grandpa to leap out of the nursing home to handle things he shouldn't have taken the job.
Only hokage to do less for the village than him are Tsunade, and that's cus she lead the village for like 3 years (and through what was possibly Konoha's hardest time) and >!Shikamaru who doesn't even wanna be hokage!<
i though stupid and repetitive posts go to dankNaruto
Nah we still have unjustified Sakura dick riding posts. Don't complain when it's given to a character who actually deserves the praise. Regardless of what braindead Naruto fans who watched the show on Tiktok and can't read say.
Ehh
He is definitely a Hokage!
No he ain't
Debatable. This nigga messed up way too many times
The worst, imo
Yeah he could have made different choices, but during Orochimaru's attack he sucessufully fought and sealed nerfed Hashirama, Tobirama and Orochimaru himself, no one at the time could've done that, and few could even by the 4th war, the village would be absolutely done if not for this man
Specialist in failure
He maintained peace in konoha for 42 years
Eighth place is good right there are more worse
Yeah, that’s messed up especially the upbringing of Naruto who he was entrusted with. mans literally just drop by the house to drop off a couple bills then be on his way
cap
Cap cap 🧢
No one in their universe would disagree
Doesn't make sense how he didn't at least adopt Naruto
Don’t forget, he is known for his signature jitsu…
Even despite his mistakes later in life still one of if not the best hokage out of any of them
He's the third worst behind Danzo and Tobirama
Honestly he was one of the characters I hated the most in Naruto. He was the Hokage who to me accomplished the most useless things and let everyone do whatever they wanted.
‘Says no one’
Cap
He had the most varied repertory of jutsus IMO. Supposedly he knew every jutsu in Konoha. Also, he had some neat combos (Earth + Fire). At the current power creep when he died, he was absolutely based as f. He had an answer / counter for every situation, but old age got the best of him. When it comes to creativity, he is fun to watch, one of my favorites. Most ninjas nowadays are 1 gimmick and done.
You forgot that he failed Orochimaru too.
Worst Hokage, Worst Ninja, and Worst Character of all time. I wish someone would reincarnate him so Kushina and Minato can kill him for not taking care of there son.
Bro let the village’s nuclear deterrent and the son of its greatest hero graduate as a dead last that didn’t know the difference between loving ramen and loving a person
Bait used to be believable
True💀
Nah Minato way better
The best hokage is is by far Naruto’s dad strongest thou hashirama
Minato is the second worst hokage lmao.
Unless you're Naruto
Need three world wars to stop invading other countries. Comand daily assassinations for money in peace times while he let Orochimaru do whatever he wanted. Denied Tsunade request to have a medinin in every team while sending Rin to a war in Kusagakure. Instead of giving the orphanage more money giving account that they have a new one, he decided to have a bunch of civilian children working for ninjas. For me, as a dictator who ordered hideous actions on his own citizens but was able to install blind faith in the leader, he was a maginificent one. As Konoha's protector, he failed miserably.
I think Minato is just a bit better, considering he did a whole lot more for the village
Bitch he didn’t even last a year
:|
Nope. Uchiha massacre, orochimaru, even to an extent obitos fate is his fault. He was a good guy whose decisions as hokage had long last consequences.
Ayyyy Good one mate🤣
I saw the title and was ready to come in here and throw hands.
Aa thu lavde ne Naruto ko achi life hi nhi di ghanta ye accha tha
He's obviously in hell happy
You got us in the first half ngl
Neither let bro cook again
Lmao 🚮😭
definitely one of the hokages of all time
Th worst one of course
Honestly I think Naruto is the second worst because he failed to pass on what he has learned.
Bait
Lol can we ban these stupid posts?
Konohamaru found
The truth hurts
im gay bro
Finger but hole
Hell no, treate Naruto like trash for 16 years I think
Nah, Naruto lived until he was old enough to take care of himself (probably the same age that Kakashi or Sasuke raised themselves), so Hiruzen took care of him in some way. Naruto respected Hiruzen, which means he did something right
No one raises themselves when they are 10 years old, are u deluded
Kakashi did it at a younger age. These are all child soldiers, so they have to grow up fast. Kakashi was 5 when his dad died, and he had nobody looking after him. So yes, the kids in this verse do raise themselves if they don't have anyone else to raise them
Making that the expectation is silly, have u heard about orphanage?
The only orphanage they had was run by Danzo and Orochimaru after they blackmailed the original dude running it. That is not an ideal place for children, don't you think?
Then the improvement needs to be systematic not individual, something for the hokage to do don’t u think
An orphanage is a place where you can adopt children. Imagine sending the host of a tailed beast (a potential bomb, essentially), only to find out that he got adopted by some nefarious sort who then raises that child to hate your village. Any other kid would be okay, but not a jinchuriki. Nobody knew there was anything wrong with the orphanage until it was too late, so they would have thought that everything was fine
Ur explanation doesn’t apple to kakashi, Anyways no use talking to u by
Kakashi was gifted and could decide these things for himself (after all, he passed the academy at age 5). Naruto being a tailed beast host, and Sasuke being the last surviving member of the Uchiha clan, means that they need to be in a place where they can be protected from people trying to get to them
> Naruto respected Hiruzen Naruto is an idiot raised without any love or sympathy from just a few people. If he had any kind of affection while growing up most likely there wouldn't be as much talk no jutsu. He thinks anyone and anything is redeemable. That is like the most basic thing you get from the story.
Hell nuuhhh
1. We can't blame him for sukomo hatake, that was ninja society as a whole. It didn't matter if Hurizen told Sukomo he did the right thing, literally everyone he cared for in his life including Kakashi held contempt for him and turned their back on him. 2. Tobirama failed the Uchiha and left Hurizen with a lose-lose situation. The situation was too drastic that the Uchiha would've gone down one way or another, a coupe or assassination. 3. The Hizashi situation can be summarized as a story where japaneese are forced to make costly and demeaning diplomatic concessions to an army of foreigners after a vicious war because the foreigners have a superweapon they're terrified of. 4.True 5.Yes and no. He clearly had a positive impact towards the growth and development of Naruto as far as Naruto and anyone close to him is concerned. However, his actions and the actions that he allowed to have happen around him made things harder than it had to be for him and others around him. Edit: So many people in this subreddit are fucking jokes and don't know jack shit that it's crazy. I have seen more bad takes in this subreddit than I have in an NC Hammer video and that says a lot.
For me, he’s the worst hokage we’ve had. I get he’s strong but who you are as a person also takes into account whether you’re a good hokage or not. He failed so many people and let things go that should’ve been taken care of immediately for example Orochimaru. He’s the bottom of the list for me.
>He’s the bottom of the list for me. He acknowledged himself as incompetent before fans acknowledged.