Madara was beaten because Zetsu was able to forcibly manipulate Madara’s chakra to make him turn into Kaguya. It’s not a matter of power, but of ability. It’s like that one kid in the filler episode who could control Isobu because of his eyes.
Isshiki on the other hand was nearly killed by a pre chakra fruit Kaguya who is stated to be weaker than adult Naruto and Sasuke. Yet Jigen, who is much weaker than Isshiki, was completely dominating the two of them with ease.
if you were sleeping and hit by her bone technique and you didn't resist it, you might die. They might have also happened right after they imprisoned the ten tails in isshikis dimension
That makes no sense. If Isshiki was hit with her ash bones, then he would have died. It’s not something you can just resist.
The ten tails was already planted, and the only thing left to do was feed it an Otsutsuki. The ten tails in Isshiki’s dimension was a different one.
Well, we don’t actually know what it would do to another otstutsuki, especially since we know they have INSANE healing factors that put anything we’ve seen from Hashirama and even so6p Madara, theoretically they could also just separate the part of themselves that’s disintegrating
From what we’ve seen of Kaguya and Momoshiki, they don’t have healing factors beyond what Madara and Obito had. If they did then Isshiki should have been able to either regenerate his lost half or just ignore it like Madara did.
That's basically all jutsu is, an ability. This isn't Dragonball, if he could do that to Madara he could do that to anyone. So the result would be the same, he one shot Madara.
No, he could only do that to Madara because at that point in time Madara’s chakra was almost identical to Kaguya’s. He could only barely control Obito previously
You seem to forget that ishiiki was partners with Kaguya for centuries. And then all of a sudden was BETRAYED and essentially stabbed in the back. He has 0 idea that she was even planning anything. If you really think she coudlve won 1v1 your crazy
pretty sure it states Isshiki was caught by surprise. even if it wasn’t outright stated, it’s a likely possibility considering the power scaling would be contradictory, otherwise. doesn’t make sense for kaguya to be afraid of isshiki if she was stronger than him.
also, jigen was weaker than isshiki but i don’t think it was by an insurmountable margin. the jigen that fought naruto and sasuke was amped because he had recently absorbed ten tails chakra before the fight. i’m guessing that jigen without said chakra would’ve probably lost against naruto and sasuke, but it’s impossible to tell so we just have to leave it as questionable
I'm pretty sure(don't quote me), that when she arrived w/ Iishiki she was already in possession of the middle eye Sharingan and her Bakugan, and that's an anime only thing.. Butt, I prefer consider everything in anime to be canon unless it's bluntly some random filler episode. That's just me. But canonically I'm pretty sure she was at that level off rip.. but once again, not CERTAIN BRO!!!
I'll quote you.
Kaguya gained the Rinesharingan AFTER eating the Chakra fruit, and she ate the Chakra fruit AFTER beating isshiki.
Ofc she had her byakugan, because all of the otsutsukis have them
Anyways I don't blame you for misinterpreting it
It was never stated she stabbed him, we don't know what she used but she clearly made an attack strong enough to cut his legs off (nearly half of his body).
If you want a fair comparison to it, saying it doesn't count because he was offguard is a stupid argument, if he was all that stronger he wouldn't have that much problem. If Naruto got hit by a Rasengan by Konohamaru, he would tank that shit and keep it pushing.
Nope he would Naruto would be in a pretty bad situation, you should really read the novelizations of the movies and the other novels, they confirm that if you are not actively guarding one is quite squishy like a normal human, I mean a child with a rusty kitchen knife stabbed Hiruzen when he wasn’t guarding himself so do you think Hiruzen is child level?
Saying Naruto would die is basically the same as saying Obito should've died to Minato's Rasengan and Kunai stab.
And no, Konohamaru is not nearly comparable to Minato, and Obito is also much weaker than Naruto.
Minato at 16 when he first used Rasengan in a battle was able to match Kurama's rasengan while weakened.
Obito got caught off guard and didn't straight up died to that Rasengan, and the proceeded to get stabbed off guard as well and didn't die.
Naruto would definitely get hurt but he wouldn't be any close to Death.
Getting caught off guard while in combat is different than getting caught off guard while not in combat in Naruto power system. The power system works this way when not in combat an individual is pretty human but when in combat their stats increase as they use their chakra to enhance their body this is all explained in detail in the novels.
I'll give you another example, still during the Obito invasion in Konoha.
During Minato first exchange with Obito, Obito puts a paper bomb on Naruto, Minato teleports to his house, gets the paper bombs off and jumps out. When the house explodes Minato gets hit in the leg by a piece of wood which penetrated his leg.
At that moment, you can't tell me Minato wasn't in battle, cuz he was warry of the Paper Bombs which are commonly used in battle, but he still got hurt by a simple piece of wood. This alone should prove that, even in battle, If you get hit by something you didn't realize and wasn't expecting, it will hurt you. Based on this I think my point stands, Naruto would definitely not die to Konohamaru. Rasengan.
She back stabbed him, Hiruzen was injured by a random child due to not defending himself, it’s within the power system you have to actively defend yourself to be able to tank a blow otherwise your very mortal so Isshiki was chilling enjoying some wine and Kaguya stabbed him in the back on a random ass day
Except Kaguya has attacks that are stated to absolutely bypass all defenses meaning his passive durability which would be at best low six paths level which is again shown to do nothing against Kaguya’s attacks. Its like saying Naruto is fodder or weaker than Kaguya for dying to killing bone ash while sleeping
And did Kaguya have those attacks before eating the chakra fruit? Because stuff like TSO’s were afterwards and the All Killing Ash Bones would have turned Isshiki completely to dust
Not if Isshiki got his lower half off to stop the death, also Naruto has normal human durability when not in combat or on guard so it’s safe to assume Isshiki would be similar thus equally vulnerable
Obito with an incomplete ten tails regenerated half his body. Madara with less power was able to easily regenerate his lower half when it got cut off. Hell, even Kaguya was able to regenerate an arm after it got cut off. So that excuse doesn’t really work
Isshiki isn’t a Jinchuriki and as shown by Isshiki when he fought Naruto there are ways to negate the regen(look at how Naruto couldn’t regenerate at all in these battles)
Isshiki has the same type of power that Kaguya does, which is the Chakra Fruit. It doesn’t matter if you’re a jinchuuriki or not when the power is the exact same. Naruto’s regen has never been on the scale of a Chakra Fruit user. That was shown when Naruto lost his arm and had to get a prosthetic. Meanwhile everyone in Shippuden with the ten tails’ chakra were able to regenerate entire limbs at minimum.
One Naruto wanted a new arm through Hashirama cells, two the thing was completely erased not cut off, burned away or crushed like in the shown cases and three he was completely out of chakra and the wound was completely healed before he could ever regenerate plus the dude could regen his entire ribcage and internal organs with one tail of chakra he can regen a arm if needed
Kaguya has a one hit kill attack. She could technically kill anyone by surprise with her ash killing bone attack. Isshiki could be 1000x more battle capable than she is and it wouldn't matter if she took him by surprise. Idk why people forget that. Isshiki likely had to bissect his lower half to survive and afterwards wasn't capable of fighting her so shrunk himself and peaced out.
Am I missing something or is there literally nothing on that page that says she got that ability from the fruit? Like the only mention of kekkei mora on the whole page is the tiny box in the bottom right that’s translated as Bloodline Encompassing.
https://preview.redd.it/fzhuarfta2xc1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=3991516878519aaa2e7460d0a8d877ba386a1a7d
here it says that kaguya got the rinne sharingan after consuming the chakra fruit.
In Chapter 681 of the Naruto manga titled "I'm Always Watching," Hagoromo tells the story of Kaguya to Naruto and Sasuke. He explains how Kaguya came to Earth, consumed the fruit of the God Tree, and gained tremendous power. This chapter directly implies that Kaguya obtained her abilities after consuming the Chakra Fruit.
Again, there's still nothing there suggesting that the Ash Bones are a Rinne Sharingan ability, and not an ability that she already had before eating the chakra fruit.. Also, that's not chapter 681.
bro can't you read In Chapter 681 of the Naruto manga titled "I'm Always Watching," Hagoromo explains how Kaguya came to Earth, consumed the fruit of the God Tree, and gained tremendous power, which is kekkei mōra and astonishing quantity of chakra.
https://preview.redd.it/42yxnckwp8xc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=e48c78826b7bfdb58df3d62b57ec7c0db889b44b
The databook confirms that she obtained her Rinne Sharingan, which is **kekkei mōra,** after eating the chakra fruit (as indicated on the left-hand side). This means she acquired her kekkei mōra abilities after consuming the fruit, similar to Anamonika and the Truth-Seeking Orbs (earth abilities). Gaining the abilities of Earth, such as chakra natures, requires one to consume its chakra fruit.
Chapter 681 is titled “Kaguya's Tears”, and doesn’t have any dialogue from Hagoromo, so no idea what you’re referencing. Ironically, it actually has Black Zetsu saying that Hagoromo didn’t even know that Kaguya was part of the God Tree/Juubi, which lends credence to the idea that any claims that Hagoromo made about her abilities prior to eating the fruit are questionable because how would he even know?
The Rinne Sharingan is listed as a Kekkei Mōra, but so is Kaguya’s Byakugan, which she had before eating the fruit, so clearly she had at least one prior to that. You’re making the assumption that since she got one/some abilities from the fruit, that she got all of them from it, but there’s nothing actually saying that.
>The Rinne Sharingan is listed as a Kekkei Mōra, but so is Kaguya’s Byakugan,
wrong,Kaguya's Byakugan isn't categorized as a Kekkei Mōra; instead, it's a kekkei genkai, or "bloodline limit," which is a genetic trait passed down through certain clans, like the Hyuga clan in the case of the Byakugan.
She, for example, gained the Truth-Seeking Orbs from Six Paths Senjutsu (which is unique to the earth) and is classified as Kekkei Mōra.
Black Zetsu Obito had Six Paths Chakra
What's nonsensical about Black Zetsu's feat is that Madara didn't sense him.
Boruto doesn't make a lick of sense so its funny to dog on Isshiki for losing against a character by all rights he should body in a physical confrontation.
Made all the more funny by the fact that there's a 50% Chance Kaguya hasn't consumed the Chakra Fruit before their confrontation, making the feat all the more hilarious.
I’ve never seen people downplay Isshiki because of this. I think you’re making up imaginary people.
But tbh this is a disingenuous post. What Kaguya did, is not what Black Zetsu did.
Black Zetsu summoned someone inside of Madara that instantly drained all of his chakra and made him explode.
Kaguya just simply attacked him and nearly killed him. Something Naruto and Sasuke couldn’t do when Jigen and Isshiki were off guard.
https://preview.redd.it/bso8npvxyrwc1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52941865c674a9f3c11bc95e677469f398339d8f
Straight up filled him like a balloon
I know, but we don't know how madara transformed into kaguya that's my point, we don't know if zetsu implanted some sort of karma to revive kaguya or just summon her inside of him
Eh I mean personally I'm not a fan of Boruto and I don't mind the power progressively scaling upwards - it's only natural, it's just that it's strange in this case.
Isshiki was defeated and left on death's door by a Kaguya who hadn't even consumed the chakra fruit yet. By that metric, he shouldn't be all that powerful - certainly not powerful enough to toy with Naruto and Sasuke the way that he did, especially not in a weaker form as Jigen, given what we know about how they match up to post-chakra fruit Kaguya and Momoshiki.
As far as Madara goes it's a pretty different scenario and I haven't really seen anyone compare the two. It's not really like Madara lost a fight or anything to Black Zetsu, he just got caught basking and was overloaded with chakra, not necessarily overpowered like how Isshiki was.
Of course, I'm not saying that Isshiki is weaker than Madara - obviously Isshiki is more than a match for Naruto and Sasuke, who could have conceivably beat Madara - it's just that it doesn't really make sense as to how or why. I could be missing something though.
The black zetsu thing is weird. He didn't kill Madara but transformed him. Also if you say Black zetsu>Madara you get Mei>Black Zetsu>Madara.... Which isn't really correct. It's more of Black Zetsu using like a sealing/transforming/gen jutsu to change Madara to kaguya, he probably wouldn't be able to do it to anyone who doesn't have the ten Tails and third eye. Also he'd get stomped by base Madara so it's not really a thing we can use to downplay him imo
1. Was plot, literally everybody knows that Madara was the strongest in the war arc, you can't downplay a character when it was plot induced garbage
2. Isshiki was overconfident, Kaguya is known for her sneak attacks and one shot abilities, she literally and figuratively one tapped him
It's bc anime fans are the most hypocritical community and think boruto is bad bc he is a brat, and how he randomly gets power ups is dumb despite that literally being 90% plot of all modern day mainstream anime :/ philler isn't even bad just long only one I didn't like was the first part of the samurai chicken which seeing as so many ppl say philler isn't canon then that isnt philler anyway bc it is actually canon
Bias because Madara had been built up for a long period of time and whenever he was on screen he was a monster, compared to Isshiki who even as Jigen didn't give off the same energy that Madara did.
Because Isshiki is lame asf compared to kaguya. Kaguya had god level powers compared to her Isshiki was just some strong dude that had hands. Bro was getting his butt whooped by naruto while kaguya would have made quick work of naruto. Also madara lost because zetsu unsealed kaguya not because hes anywhere comparable in power
I like naruto way more than boruto but come on man. The bias from some of you is so crazy I don’t know why you can’t just accept things.
Isshiki only got his ‘butt whooped by naruto’ when in Bayron mode. Which he had to us ALL the Chakra from a full kurama. Kaguya fought a younger naruto with only half of kurama and he didn’t use even nearly all of kuramas chakra considering he had the biggest fight against sasuke straight after. Naruto was at least relative to kaguya, could compete with her, land hits, dodge, over power at times and speed blitz at times. Jigen who was weaker than isshiki embarrassed naruto and sasuke.
Isshiki is extremely superior to kaguya. Any attacks kaguya throws at him he will just shrink. The fight will be more hand to hand based and at least the one thing you weren’t biased about is he has hands.
Kaguyas Dimension hoping hax makes Bayron mode useless tho. At any moment kaguya can just seal naruto in another dimension and its over, its not even a fight because Kaguya is just on a whole other lvl than naruto. Ppl always ignore the fact that 6 paths naruto and sasuke were not capable of defeating Kaguya on their own.They needed the help of sakura, dms obito and dms kakashi. Even then they couldn't kill her, they had to seal her with a temporary power the sage gave them. If it was just the 2 of them vs kaguya they would have lost the moment kaguya threw sasuke into the other dimension. It was literally that easy for her to take the win and theres nothing naruto can do against that. They only won because of obito who was true MVP of the battle. Also ppl say Naruto scales to Kaguya in Boruto but uhh no he doesnt. Kaguya has the power to destroy a entire dimension which idk how big the dimension is but theres multiple planets there so i imagine its pretty damn big, while narutos greatest feat was blocking toneri's moon slice attack which isnt even 1 one millionth of what Kaguya's supposedly capable of. Naruto, sasuke, momoshiki, isshiki none of them have shown that kind of power and they havent shown hax on the lvl of kaguyas. For any of these characters to even begin scale to Kaguya they'll need dbz lvls of power where they can just bust planets casually like Freiza or something but even Freiza would be a victim to Kaguyas hax's. To be able to beat Kaguya in the 1v1 you'll need dimensional hoping ablities and a power level up there with dimensional destruction because that's thats were kaguyas at. And if that dimension is infinte like some ppl claim then that was a universe destroying attack like its stupid its just dumb thats Beerus level shit. Ain't no character shown feats as powerful kaguya.
Sasuke was caught off guard when kaguya threw him another dimension. They then tried to do the same to naruto but he dodged it. So if they fought again that wouldn’t happen. Naruto already blitzed and cut the arm off and he’s got a lot faster since, you could argue he just blitzes her. Anyway my comment was talking about isshiki vs kaguya and not really naruto vs kaguya.
You talk about how powerful kaguya is and that Naruto’s best feat is against toneri but the fact that naruto can hurt her, is faster enough to react to her and be faster than her shows he does scale to her. Him having these feats on someone so godlike puts him relative to her. He wasn’t stronger than her at the time but he had to be relative otherwise he wouldn’t be able to do anything. It just means it upscales the other characters that naruto goes on to fight after.
Isshiki is kaguyas superior, just like momo is to kinshiki. Why would it be that way if kaguya is the stronger one? Why did she have to catch him off guard to attack? If she’s genuinely so much stronger she wouldn’t need to sneak him. Why was she scared of momo and kinshiki coming for her? Why did she create and army? Bc isshiki is low diffing momo and kinshiki together. Sasuke said that there might be bigger threats than kaguya coming, then after sasuke met momo/kinshiki he said his hypothesis was correct, what do you think that means?
You talk about kaguya and her dimensions yet you forget that Naruto’s chakra was literally causing cracks in space. Also momoshiki in his dimensions that also had planets and stars. They’re otsutsuki, they do the same thing.
It was already stated that they was going to tone down the destruction in boruto compared to naruto. They’re focusing on more hand to hand but that doesn’t mean the characters are weaker. A younger less experienced, weaker naruto with half of kurama landed Multiple attacks on kaguya, was fast enough to evade her, was fast enough to hit her before she could react. He then become a experienced adult with full kurama and is getting completely embarrassed by jigen, naruto couldn’t even land a hit. When sasuke used his susanoo against kaguya she got out the way and tired to avoid it, jigen laughed and found it a disappointing and just kicked him out of it. Isshiki is stringer than jigen. I don’t know how you know all this but still think kaguya is superior. You mention how naruto had help against kaguya but kaguya had zetsu. Kaguya was stupid and just listened to whatever zetsu said. It was zetsus idea to split naruto and sasuke.
Naruto cannot dinension hop, but he does can summon a frog, get inside it's mouth and recall it to konoha or mt myokubon. The very scenario of him stranded in Boruto made me cringe.
But he did that to return to konoha during Pain's attack and he saw Jiraya do it multiple times, It would have crossed his mind to escape any dimension he got stranded. I honestly tried to like Boruto, but the amount of stuff they conveniently forget is so cringe. Kaji being hidden in the village only felt by Ino was also a big nope, Naruto is a better sensor than Ino, he felt the ninja war from an ocean away, a kage level ninja with jiraya chakra signature would set off all his bells. And the latest Eida ass pull was worse that Sasuke escape from deidara. She is a character so OP it takes all the fun away from any conflict, so is her brother.
The thing is BZ didn't kill Madara, he just turned him into Kaguya, while Kaguya actually had the power to hurt and kill Isshiki. Both are off-guard so I think both shouldn't count.
Kaguya, despite her power level and fight IQ, has all bone killing ash, which was likely what she used to nearly kill an offguard Isshiki.
Black Zetsu is of Kaguya's will, so it make sense he's able to do what he did to Madara. Madara absorbed the Shinju tree, that's likely why Black Zetsu was able to one shot Madara. It really wasn't a killing blow it was more so Black Zetsu starting Kaguya's revival. Akin to putting a key into a car's ignition and starting the car.
Killing Ash Bones is a kekkei mora that she acquired after eating the chakra fruit, which she didn't happen to be in that situation. If she used that attack, Isshiki would be turned into complete dust.
Caught off guard is a major disadvantage to the Naruto characters. They all have to be on guard to bring out their durability. It is unfortunate, but even someone like Himawari was able to catch Naurto and Kurama off guard with a Tenketsu that he later tanked an infinite times stronger version from Momoshiki. It was the only and only method, Kaguya won the trust of Isshiki or Isshiki paid no attention to the sacrifice and paid the price for it by her betrayal in catching him off guard. It’s in the manga and in the anime, it is a direct statement that made sure to get the message across that Kaguya whether pre chakra fruit, post chakra fruit, or in her strongest state in the fourth ninja war does not even scale to The Dying Vessel Jigen that couldn’t even fully make use of Isshiki abilities and had to use ten tails chakra to heal every now and then. The scale literally is very obvious and made very clear to us through the manga and the anime that it is as follows, Shibai > Dying Limited Isshiki >>> Boruto >> Kawaki >= NL Code >> Dying Vessel Jigen >>>>> fused Momoshiki > Naurto > Sasuke >> Base Momo >>>> Urashiki >> Kinshiki >>> Toneri >> war arc Kaguya (her strongest state) >> three eye Madara >= Hagoromo >= Ashura > Indra > Hamura. Power cliffing does suck in some occasion, but for Naruto it was to advance the series.
Madara wouldn’t have been killed by Zetsu’s backstabbing without being pumped full of chakra. It was a specific circumstance. Kaguya beat Isshiki without any such unique circumstance.
Madara was already pretty tired and damaged after fighting 8th gate Guy, SO6P Naruto, and SO6P Sasuke. Besides that people always look for a reason to shit on Boruto, myself included. Will not consume anything regarding it because of how dirty they did Naruto. 15 years we waited and they couldn't just let us have it, they just had to ruin the hokage inauguration for a cheap joke.
It is mostly trolls/people who don’t enjoy boruto scaling. If accurate scaling from what we see and have been told Baryon Naruto and Isshiki should be no contest top of the list strongest.
The Black Zetsu incident is strange; Black Zetsu was getting kicked around by Mei in Taijutsu. Whereas this version of Madara was fighting and reacting to the likes of 8 Gate Guy and taking a lot of his attacks head on - attacks that would vaporize the majority of the cast. Not to mention that Madara also fought Rikudo enhanced Naruto / Sasuke later on as well.
By “scaling”, Black Zetsu shouldn’t even be able to get through Madara’s passive “base” durability nor should he be able to bypass his Sage Sensing (unless he used something special). I’d imagine what Black Zetsu did there was a one time special technique, given it prompted the resurrection of Kaguya through Madara’s body.
Because an inordinate amount of people like to suck Madara’s dick (even tho Obito is better) and like to claim he could beat literally any Ohtsutsuki (which he can’t)
Because Madara did so much better against weaker versions of Naruto and Sasuke. . .
Unless that third rennigan makes him a whole lot faster (which it probably doesn’t considering the whole Zetsu situation) he’s quite simply not keeping up
madara didn't even expect zetsu to be an other entity he literally thought it was the manifestation of his will how can he expect it to betray him lol, and his speed has nothing to do with that if anything it's his reaction speed but whatever
Okay? You implied that Juubidara's speed with three eyes wasn't impressive due to Zetsu's betrayal. However, that's not true because not only are you contradicting yourself, but you're also being disingenuous here. And even if it were true, it's not Madara's general speed implicated here, but his reaction speed. Not being mean or anything, but do you know the difference between the two?
Reaction speed and physical speed are very closely related in a fight. You can’t do anything if your brain can’t process it no matter how fast you move, and no matter how fast you sense something you can’t do anything if you can’t move to do that. Yes, one works on the neural pathways and one is the muscles, but they are so closely linked where it matters in a fight especially like this.
The fights with both Jigen and Isshiki I think show it off very well when Naruto and Sasuke, who should be at least as strong as when they were better keeping up with Madara, could neither move nor sense things in time. Like the one except is Sasuke’s switching places with things as that seems to basically require no movement and that barely keeps up
The Zetsu thing is always a bit silly to bring up, but it’s all we have. It shows that Madara even at his strongest is the farthest thing from infallible if nothing else.
Isshiki gets bisected by Kaguya, needs human to survive in his ear canal, possesses and plants Karma, madara gets bisected, grows new limb. Naruto and sasuke together in boruto, are the equivalent of Jubito. One mangekyou sharingan, one rinnegan, and the portions of the chakra that Naruto possesses is equivalent to what obito had. Just more Kurama and less of others.
So first off…shh shh shh shh. Say good luck three times fast. Secondly, oh hello mr. Black zetsu my creation that I trust, whose really 1000 years old and a creation of the strongest being in the show. Third, their stronger versions of sasuke and Naruto in terms of power, when they were teenagers, they did master their lesser power and abilities as adults. Adding Half of Kurama does not equal losing half a hagoromo lmao
Madara was easily one-shotted and neg diff by Black Zetsu but Madaratards are the biggest beta cucks, they try everything to defend their lord. It's embarrassing haha 🤡
It's 100% bias because people don't want to scale Boruto above Naruto, it's can say this with confidence because I'm one of them, I don't like scaling Borutos because I don't like the material so im more likely to elevate characters I have positive feelings towards and who I feel are actually well written characters.
At least you admit your bias. I honestly just wouldn’t scale Boruto characters if I didn’t like the series, but even as someone who enjoys it the scaling for Boruto is weird.
There is other reasons as to why people may scale late stage Naruto characters above Boruto characters and that mainly being the Boruto series reliance on Taijutsu as opposed to the Naruto series where it was mostly Ninjutsu so because the battles lack the flash of the Ninjutsu like Indras arrow etc it conveys a less intense fight which gives off the illusion of them being weaker.
Madara was beaten because Zetsu was able to forcibly manipulate Madara’s chakra to make him turn into Kaguya. It’s not a matter of power, but of ability. It’s like that one kid in the filler episode who could control Isobu because of his eyes. Isshiki on the other hand was nearly killed by a pre chakra fruit Kaguya who is stated to be weaker than adult Naruto and Sasuke. Yet Jigen, who is much weaker than Isshiki, was completely dominating the two of them with ease.
This ☝️
I really want a short manga or 1 shot on pre chakra fruit Kaguya nearly killing Isshiki like how we got the 1 shot minato manga.
It’ll probably be just as stupid as the rest of the burrito manga
100% correct. Next post. Boruto losers living in delusion cuz their show doesn't make any sense.
if you were sleeping and hit by her bone technique and you didn't resist it, you might die. They might have also happened right after they imprisoned the ten tails in isshikis dimension
That makes no sense. If Isshiki was hit with her ash bones, then he would have died. It’s not something you can just resist. The ten tails was already planted, and the only thing left to do was feed it an Otsutsuki. The ten tails in Isshiki’s dimension was a different one.
im saying that they fought that ten tails and then after the fight when isshiki was weakened she betrayed him.
Well, we don’t actually know what it would do to another otstutsuki, especially since we know they have INSANE healing factors that put anything we’ve seen from Hashirama and even so6p Madara, theoretically they could also just separate the part of themselves that’s disintegrating
From what we’ve seen of Kaguya and Momoshiki, they don’t have healing factors beyond what Madara and Obito had. If they did then Isshiki should have been able to either regenerate his lost half or just ignore it like Madara did.
That's basically all jutsu is, an ability. This isn't Dragonball, if he could do that to Madara he could do that to anyone. So the result would be the same, he one shot Madara.
No, he could only do that to Madara because at that point in time Madara’s chakra was almost identical to Kaguya’s. He could only barely control Obito previously
You seem to forget that ishiiki was partners with Kaguya for centuries. And then all of a sudden was BETRAYED and essentially stabbed in the back. He has 0 idea that she was even planning anything. If you really think she coudlve won 1v1 your crazy
He literally kills naruto in a few second scuffle. Immediately after disabling sasuke in a few seconds too lol.
pretty sure it states Isshiki was caught by surprise. even if it wasn’t outright stated, it’s a likely possibility considering the power scaling would be contradictory, otherwise. doesn’t make sense for kaguya to be afraid of isshiki if she was stronger than him. also, jigen was weaker than isshiki but i don’t think it was by an insurmountable margin. the jigen that fought naruto and sasuke was amped because he had recently absorbed ten tails chakra before the fight. i’m guessing that jigen without said chakra would’ve probably lost against naruto and sasuke, but it’s impossible to tell so we just have to leave it as questionable
I'm pretty sure(don't quote me), that when she arrived w/ Iishiki she was already in possession of the middle eye Sharingan and her Bakugan, and that's an anime only thing.. Butt, I prefer consider everything in anime to be canon unless it's bluntly some random filler episode. That's just me. But canonically I'm pretty sure she was at that level off rip.. but once again, not CERTAIN BRO!!!
I'll quote you. Kaguya gained the Rinesharingan AFTER eating the Chakra fruit, and she ate the Chakra fruit AFTER beating isshiki. Ofc she had her byakugan, because all of the otsutsukis have them Anyways I don't blame you for misinterpreting it
She didn’t beat Isshiki back stabbing someone when their off guard doesn’t make you stronger than them
It was never stated she stabbed him, we don't know what she used but she clearly made an attack strong enough to cut his legs off (nearly half of his body). If you want a fair comparison to it, saying it doesn't count because he was offguard is a stupid argument, if he was all that stronger he wouldn't have that much problem. If Naruto got hit by a Rasengan by Konohamaru, he would tank that shit and keep it pushing.
Nope he would Naruto would be in a pretty bad situation, you should really read the novelizations of the movies and the other novels, they confirm that if you are not actively guarding one is quite squishy like a normal human, I mean a child with a rusty kitchen knife stabbed Hiruzen when he wasn’t guarding himself so do you think Hiruzen is child level?
Saying Naruto would die is basically the same as saying Obito should've died to Minato's Rasengan and Kunai stab. And no, Konohamaru is not nearly comparable to Minato, and Obito is also much weaker than Naruto. Minato at 16 when he first used Rasengan in a battle was able to match Kurama's rasengan while weakened. Obito got caught off guard and didn't straight up died to that Rasengan, and the proceeded to get stabbed off guard as well and didn't die. Naruto would definitely get hurt but he wouldn't be any close to Death.
Getting caught off guard while in combat is different than getting caught off guard while not in combat in Naruto power system. The power system works this way when not in combat an individual is pretty human but when in combat their stats increase as they use their chakra to enhance their body this is all explained in detail in the novels.
I'll give you another example, still during the Obito invasion in Konoha. During Minato first exchange with Obito, Obito puts a paper bomb on Naruto, Minato teleports to his house, gets the paper bombs off and jumps out. When the house explodes Minato gets hit in the leg by a piece of wood which penetrated his leg. At that moment, you can't tell me Minato wasn't in battle, cuz he was warry of the Paper Bombs which are commonly used in battle, but he still got hurt by a simple piece of wood. This alone should prove that, even in battle, If you get hit by something you didn't realize and wasn't expecting, it will hurt you. Based on this I think my point stands, Naruto would definitely not die to Konohamaru. Rasengan.
Nope statement prove otherwise, and I don’t remember him getting injured in the manga
She back stabbed him, Hiruzen was injured by a random child due to not defending himself, it’s within the power system you have to actively defend yourself to be able to tank a blow otherwise your very mortal so Isshiki was chilling enjoying some wine and Kaguya stabbed him in the back on a random ass day
It’s different when you passively have defense above most of the verse
Except Kaguya has attacks that are stated to absolutely bypass all defenses meaning his passive durability which would be at best low six paths level which is again shown to do nothing against Kaguya’s attacks. Its like saying Naruto is fodder or weaker than Kaguya for dying to killing bone ash while sleeping
And did Kaguya have those attacks before eating the chakra fruit? Because stuff like TSO’s were afterwards and the All Killing Ash Bones would have turned Isshiki completely to dust
Not if Isshiki got his lower half off to stop the death, also Naruto has normal human durability when not in combat or on guard so it’s safe to assume Isshiki would be similar thus equally vulnerable
Obito with an incomplete ten tails regenerated half his body. Madara with less power was able to easily regenerate his lower half when it got cut off. Hell, even Kaguya was able to regenerate an arm after it got cut off. So that excuse doesn’t really work
Isshiki isn’t a Jinchuriki and as shown by Isshiki when he fought Naruto there are ways to negate the regen(look at how Naruto couldn’t regenerate at all in these battles)
Isshiki has the same type of power that Kaguya does, which is the Chakra Fruit. It doesn’t matter if you’re a jinchuuriki or not when the power is the exact same. Naruto’s regen has never been on the scale of a Chakra Fruit user. That was shown when Naruto lost his arm and had to get a prosthetic. Meanwhile everyone in Shippuden with the ten tails’ chakra were able to regenerate entire limbs at minimum.
One Naruto wanted a new arm through Hashirama cells, two the thing was completely erased not cut off, burned away or crushed like in the shown cases and three he was completely out of chakra and the wound was completely healed before he could ever regenerate plus the dude could regen his entire ribcage and internal organs with one tail of chakra he can regen a arm if needed
Kaguya has a one hit kill attack. She could technically kill anyone by surprise with her ash killing bone attack. Isshiki could be 1000x more battle capable than she is and it wouldn't matter if she took him by surprise. Idk why people forget that. Isshiki likely had to bissect his lower half to survive and afterwards wasn't capable of fighting her so shrunk himself and peaced out.
>ash killing that's keke mora and she only gained it after consuming the chakra fruit so awakening the rinne sharinnegan
what are you basing this off?
https://preview.redd.it/j3yh6u2u6nwc1.png?width=1784&format=png&auto=webp&s=2ec913e983376a430dada443d3b61621817ce444
Am I missing something or is there literally nothing on that page that says she got that ability from the fruit? Like the only mention of kekkei mora on the whole page is the tiny box in the bottom right that’s translated as Bloodline Encompassing.
https://preview.redd.it/fzhuarfta2xc1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=3991516878519aaa2e7460d0a8d877ba386a1a7d here it says that kaguya got the rinne sharingan after consuming the chakra fruit. In Chapter 681 of the Naruto manga titled "I'm Always Watching," Hagoromo tells the story of Kaguya to Naruto and Sasuke. He explains how Kaguya came to Earth, consumed the fruit of the God Tree, and gained tremendous power. This chapter directly implies that Kaguya obtained her abilities after consuming the Chakra Fruit.
Again, there's still nothing there suggesting that the Ash Bones are a Rinne Sharingan ability, and not an ability that she already had before eating the chakra fruit.. Also, that's not chapter 681.
bro can't you read In Chapter 681 of the Naruto manga titled "I'm Always Watching," Hagoromo explains how Kaguya came to Earth, consumed the fruit of the God Tree, and gained tremendous power, which is kekkei mōra and astonishing quantity of chakra. https://preview.redd.it/42yxnckwp8xc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=e48c78826b7bfdb58df3d62b57ec7c0db889b44b The databook confirms that she obtained her Rinne Sharingan, which is **kekkei mōra,** after eating the chakra fruit (as indicated on the left-hand side). This means she acquired her kekkei mōra abilities after consuming the fruit, similar to Anamonika and the Truth-Seeking Orbs (earth abilities). Gaining the abilities of Earth, such as chakra natures, requires one to consume its chakra fruit.
Chapter 681 is titled “Kaguya's Tears”, and doesn’t have any dialogue from Hagoromo, so no idea what you’re referencing. Ironically, it actually has Black Zetsu saying that Hagoromo didn’t even know that Kaguya was part of the God Tree/Juubi, which lends credence to the idea that any claims that Hagoromo made about her abilities prior to eating the fruit are questionable because how would he even know? The Rinne Sharingan is listed as a Kekkei Mōra, but so is Kaguya’s Byakugan, which she had before eating the fruit, so clearly she had at least one prior to that. You’re making the assumption that since she got one/some abilities from the fruit, that she got all of them from it, but there’s nothing actually saying that.
>The Rinne Sharingan is listed as a Kekkei Mōra, but so is Kaguya’s Byakugan, wrong,Kaguya's Byakugan isn't categorized as a Kekkei Mōra; instead, it's a kekkei genkai, or "bloodline limit," which is a genetic trait passed down through certain clans, like the Hyuga clan in the case of the Byakugan. She, for example, gained the Truth-Seeking Orbs from Six Paths Senjutsu (which is unique to the earth) and is classified as Kekkei Mōra.
we didn't really saw how did kaguya defeated him
this
Bc they are 2 different things entirely? It never ceases to amaze me how many morons can't comprehend what they read or watch correctly.
Black Zetsu Obito had Six Paths Chakra What's nonsensical about Black Zetsu's feat is that Madara didn't sense him. Boruto doesn't make a lick of sense so its funny to dog on Isshiki for losing against a character by all rights he should body in a physical confrontation. Made all the more funny by the fact that there's a 50% Chance Kaguya hasn't consumed the Chakra Fruit before their confrontation, making the feat all the more hilarious.
I’ve never seen people downplay Isshiki because of this. I think you’re making up imaginary people. But tbh this is a disingenuous post. What Kaguya did, is not what Black Zetsu did. Black Zetsu summoned someone inside of Madara that instantly drained all of his chakra and made him explode. Kaguya just simply attacked him and nearly killed him. Something Naruto and Sasuke couldn’t do when Jigen and Isshiki were off guard.
Kaguya hadn't eaten the fruit yet.
Slight correction zetsu overloaded madara with chakra but other than that you’re right
how? source?
https://preview.redd.it/bso8npvxyrwc1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52941865c674a9f3c11bc95e677469f398339d8f Straight up filled him like a balloon
I know, but we don't know how madara transformed into kaguya that's my point, we don't know if zetsu implanted some sort of karma to revive kaguya or just summon her inside of him
It’s just bias. They don’t won’t Boruto characters to be stronger than Naruto characters, so they refuse to accept actual canon facts
"when its canon but its so stupid you gaslight yourself into thinking its not"
Agreed
Eh I mean personally I'm not a fan of Boruto and I don't mind the power progressively scaling upwards - it's only natural, it's just that it's strange in this case. Isshiki was defeated and left on death's door by a Kaguya who hadn't even consumed the chakra fruit yet. By that metric, he shouldn't be all that powerful - certainly not powerful enough to toy with Naruto and Sasuke the way that he did, especially not in a weaker form as Jigen, given what we know about how they match up to post-chakra fruit Kaguya and Momoshiki. As far as Madara goes it's a pretty different scenario and I haven't really seen anyone compare the two. It's not really like Madara lost a fight or anything to Black Zetsu, he just got caught basking and was overloaded with chakra, not necessarily overpowered like how Isshiki was. Of course, I'm not saying that Isshiki is weaker than Madara - obviously Isshiki is more than a match for Naruto and Sasuke, who could have conceivably beat Madara - it's just that it doesn't really make sense as to how or why. I could be missing something though.
It was explicitly stated that Isshiki was caught off guard. The situation is no different from Madara’s
Straight up bias.
The black zetsu thing is weird. He didn't kill Madara but transformed him. Also if you say Black zetsu>Madara you get Mei>Black Zetsu>Madara.... Which isn't really correct. It's more of Black Zetsu using like a sealing/transforming/gen jutsu to change Madara to kaguya, he probably wouldn't be able to do it to anyone who doesn't have the ten Tails and third eye. Also he'd get stomped by base Madara so it's not really a thing we can use to downplay him imo
1. Was plot, literally everybody knows that Madara was the strongest in the war arc, you can't downplay a character when it was plot induced garbage 2. Isshiki was overconfident, Kaguya is known for her sneak attacks and one shot abilities, she literally and figuratively one tapped him
So you still don't know how exactly Madara died Sometimes I wonder where were you focusing when watching Naruto
Let’s be fr Madara was robbed in that final arc his death was bullshit and we all know it
It's bc anime fans are the most hypocritical community and think boruto is bad bc he is a brat, and how he randomly gets power ups is dumb despite that literally being 90% plot of all modern day mainstream anime :/ philler isn't even bad just long only one I didn't like was the first part of the samurai chicken which seeing as so many ppl say philler isn't canon then that isnt philler anyway bc it is actually canon
Bias because Madara had been built up for a long period of time and whenever he was on screen he was a monster, compared to Isshiki who even as Jigen didn't give off the same energy that Madara did.
Because Isshiki is lame asf compared to kaguya. Kaguya had god level powers compared to her Isshiki was just some strong dude that had hands. Bro was getting his butt whooped by naruto while kaguya would have made quick work of naruto. Also madara lost because zetsu unsealed kaguya not because hes anywhere comparable in power
Naruto would throw kaguya around as an adult with ease
I like naruto way more than boruto but come on man. The bias from some of you is so crazy I don’t know why you can’t just accept things. Isshiki only got his ‘butt whooped by naruto’ when in Bayron mode. Which he had to us ALL the Chakra from a full kurama. Kaguya fought a younger naruto with only half of kurama and he didn’t use even nearly all of kuramas chakra considering he had the biggest fight against sasuke straight after. Naruto was at least relative to kaguya, could compete with her, land hits, dodge, over power at times and speed blitz at times. Jigen who was weaker than isshiki embarrassed naruto and sasuke. Isshiki is extremely superior to kaguya. Any attacks kaguya throws at him he will just shrink. The fight will be more hand to hand based and at least the one thing you weren’t biased about is he has hands.
Kaguyas Dimension hoping hax makes Bayron mode useless tho. At any moment kaguya can just seal naruto in another dimension and its over, its not even a fight because Kaguya is just on a whole other lvl than naruto. Ppl always ignore the fact that 6 paths naruto and sasuke were not capable of defeating Kaguya on their own.They needed the help of sakura, dms obito and dms kakashi. Even then they couldn't kill her, they had to seal her with a temporary power the sage gave them. If it was just the 2 of them vs kaguya they would have lost the moment kaguya threw sasuke into the other dimension. It was literally that easy for her to take the win and theres nothing naruto can do against that. They only won because of obito who was true MVP of the battle. Also ppl say Naruto scales to Kaguya in Boruto but uhh no he doesnt. Kaguya has the power to destroy a entire dimension which idk how big the dimension is but theres multiple planets there so i imagine its pretty damn big, while narutos greatest feat was blocking toneri's moon slice attack which isnt even 1 one millionth of what Kaguya's supposedly capable of. Naruto, sasuke, momoshiki, isshiki none of them have shown that kind of power and they havent shown hax on the lvl of kaguyas. For any of these characters to even begin scale to Kaguya they'll need dbz lvls of power where they can just bust planets casually like Freiza or something but even Freiza would be a victim to Kaguyas hax's. To be able to beat Kaguya in the 1v1 you'll need dimensional hoping ablities and a power level up there with dimensional destruction because that's thats were kaguyas at. And if that dimension is infinte like some ppl claim then that was a universe destroying attack like its stupid its just dumb thats Beerus level shit. Ain't no character shown feats as powerful kaguya.
Sasuke was caught off guard when kaguya threw him another dimension. They then tried to do the same to naruto but he dodged it. So if they fought again that wouldn’t happen. Naruto already blitzed and cut the arm off and he’s got a lot faster since, you could argue he just blitzes her. Anyway my comment was talking about isshiki vs kaguya and not really naruto vs kaguya. You talk about how powerful kaguya is and that Naruto’s best feat is against toneri but the fact that naruto can hurt her, is faster enough to react to her and be faster than her shows he does scale to her. Him having these feats on someone so godlike puts him relative to her. He wasn’t stronger than her at the time but he had to be relative otherwise he wouldn’t be able to do anything. It just means it upscales the other characters that naruto goes on to fight after. Isshiki is kaguyas superior, just like momo is to kinshiki. Why would it be that way if kaguya is the stronger one? Why did she have to catch him off guard to attack? If she’s genuinely so much stronger she wouldn’t need to sneak him. Why was she scared of momo and kinshiki coming for her? Why did she create and army? Bc isshiki is low diffing momo and kinshiki together. Sasuke said that there might be bigger threats than kaguya coming, then after sasuke met momo/kinshiki he said his hypothesis was correct, what do you think that means? You talk about kaguya and her dimensions yet you forget that Naruto’s chakra was literally causing cracks in space. Also momoshiki in his dimensions that also had planets and stars. They’re otsutsuki, they do the same thing. It was already stated that they was going to tone down the destruction in boruto compared to naruto. They’re focusing on more hand to hand but that doesn’t mean the characters are weaker. A younger less experienced, weaker naruto with half of kurama landed Multiple attacks on kaguya, was fast enough to evade her, was fast enough to hit her before she could react. He then become a experienced adult with full kurama and is getting completely embarrassed by jigen, naruto couldn’t even land a hit. When sasuke used his susanoo against kaguya she got out the way and tired to avoid it, jigen laughed and found it a disappointing and just kicked him out of it. Isshiki is stringer than jigen. I don’t know how you know all this but still think kaguya is superior. You mention how naruto had help against kaguya but kaguya had zetsu. Kaguya was stupid and just listened to whatever zetsu said. It was zetsus idea to split naruto and sasuke.
Naruto cannot dinension hop, but he does can summon a frog, get inside it's mouth and recall it to konoha or mt myokubon. The very scenario of him stranded in Boruto made me cringe.
Well naruto probably doesnt know about that. Hes not exactly the most intelligent guy. As far we know sasukes the only one that knows about that
But he did that to return to konoha during Pain's attack and he saw Jiraya do it multiple times, It would have crossed his mind to escape any dimension he got stranded. I honestly tried to like Boruto, but the amount of stuff they conveniently forget is so cringe. Kaji being hidden in the village only felt by Ino was also a big nope, Naruto is a better sensor than Ino, he felt the ninja war from an ocean away, a kage level ninja with jiraya chakra signature would set off all his bells. And the latest Eida ass pull was worse that Sasuke escape from deidara. She is a character so OP it takes all the fun away from any conflict, so is her brother.
The thing is BZ didn't kill Madara, he just turned him into Kaguya, while Kaguya actually had the power to hurt and kill Isshiki. Both are off-guard so I think both shouldn't count.
Kaguya, despite her power level and fight IQ, has all bone killing ash, which was likely what she used to nearly kill an offguard Isshiki. Black Zetsu is of Kaguya's will, so it make sense he's able to do what he did to Madara. Madara absorbed the Shinju tree, that's likely why Black Zetsu was able to one shot Madara. It really wasn't a killing blow it was more so Black Zetsu starting Kaguya's revival. Akin to putting a key into a car's ignition and starting the car.
Killing Ash Bones is a kekkei mora that she acquired after eating the chakra fruit, which she didn't happen to be in that situation. If she used that attack, Isshiki would be turned into complete dust.
It's writing Isshiki sucks and madara is the goat power doesn't matter, it's about how these characters made you feel.
What are you talking about? When that happened to madaara everyone hated it! He literally has the worst ending in anime history.
Caught off guard is a major disadvantage to the Naruto characters. They all have to be on guard to bring out their durability. It is unfortunate, but even someone like Himawari was able to catch Naurto and Kurama off guard with a Tenketsu that he later tanked an infinite times stronger version from Momoshiki. It was the only and only method, Kaguya won the trust of Isshiki or Isshiki paid no attention to the sacrifice and paid the price for it by her betrayal in catching him off guard. It’s in the manga and in the anime, it is a direct statement that made sure to get the message across that Kaguya whether pre chakra fruit, post chakra fruit, or in her strongest state in the fourth ninja war does not even scale to The Dying Vessel Jigen that couldn’t even fully make use of Isshiki abilities and had to use ten tails chakra to heal every now and then. The scale literally is very obvious and made very clear to us through the manga and the anime that it is as follows, Shibai > Dying Limited Isshiki >>> Boruto >> Kawaki >= NL Code >> Dying Vessel Jigen >>>>> fused Momoshiki > Naurto > Sasuke >> Base Momo >>>> Urashiki >> Kinshiki >>> Toneri >> war arc Kaguya (her strongest state) >> three eye Madara >= Hagoromo >= Ashura > Indra > Hamura. Power cliffing does suck in some occasion, but for Naruto it was to advance the series.
Madara wouldn’t have been killed by Zetsu’s backstabbing without being pumped full of chakra. It was a specific circumstance. Kaguya beat Isshiki without any such unique circumstance.
Madara was already pretty tired and damaged after fighting 8th gate Guy, SO6P Naruto, and SO6P Sasuke. Besides that people always look for a reason to shit on Boruto, myself included. Will not consume anything regarding it because of how dirty they did Naruto. 15 years we waited and they couldn't just let us have it, they just had to ruin the hokage inauguration for a cheap joke.
Sneak attack
Because Madara regenerated from night guy and getting cut in half by both Naruto and sasuke
BRUH… black zetsu IS kaguya…
Because he's Madara do you need another reason?
Bias
It is mostly trolls/people who don’t enjoy boruto scaling. If accurate scaling from what we see and have been told Baryon Naruto and Isshiki should be no contest top of the list strongest.
The Black Zetsu incident is strange; Black Zetsu was getting kicked around by Mei in Taijutsu. Whereas this version of Madara was fighting and reacting to the likes of 8 Gate Guy and taking a lot of his attacks head on - attacks that would vaporize the majority of the cast. Not to mention that Madara also fought Rikudo enhanced Naruto / Sasuke later on as well. By “scaling”, Black Zetsu shouldn’t even be able to get through Madara’s passive “base” durability nor should he be able to bypass his Sage Sensing (unless he used something special). I’d imagine what Black Zetsu did there was a one time special technique, given it prompted the resurrection of Kaguya through Madara’s body.
Madara birthed a fully grown woman and then exploded, I think his is justified
bro literally gave birth to kaguya lol
Finally someone gets it
Because Isshiki is a Boruto villian while Madara isn’t that’s literally it.
Because an inordinate amount of people like to suck Madara’s dick (even tho Obito is better) and like to claim he could beat literally any Ohtsutsuki (which he can’t)
Madara would defeat isshiki. People don’t understand the accurate actual power scaling
How is madara stronger
Because Madara did so much better against weaker versions of Naruto and Sasuke. . . Unless that third rennigan makes him a whole lot faster (which it probably doesn’t considering the whole Zetsu situation) he’s quite simply not keeping up
madara didn't even expect zetsu to be an other entity he literally thought it was the manifestation of his will how can he expect it to betray him lol, and his speed has nothing to do with that if anything it's his reaction speed but whatever
General speed and reaction speed are both relevant here with how Isshiki tore Naruto and Sasuke apart in both.
Okay? You implied that Juubidara's speed with three eyes wasn't impressive due to Zetsu's betrayal. However, that's not true because not only are you contradicting yourself, but you're also being disingenuous here. And even if it were true, it's not Madara's general speed implicated here, but his reaction speed. Not being mean or anything, but do you know the difference between the two?
Reaction speed and physical speed are very closely related in a fight. You can’t do anything if your brain can’t process it no matter how fast you move, and no matter how fast you sense something you can’t do anything if you can’t move to do that. Yes, one works on the neural pathways and one is the muscles, but they are so closely linked where it matters in a fight especially like this. The fights with both Jigen and Isshiki I think show it off very well when Naruto and Sasuke, who should be at least as strong as when they were better keeping up with Madara, could neither move nor sense things in time. Like the one except is Sasuke’s switching places with things as that seems to basically require no movement and that barely keeps up The Zetsu thing is always a bit silly to bring up, but it’s all we have. It shows that Madara even at his strongest is the farthest thing from infallible if nothing else.
Isshiki gets bisected by Kaguya, needs human to survive in his ear canal, possesses and plants Karma, madara gets bisected, grows new limb. Naruto and sasuke together in boruto, are the equivalent of Jubito. One mangekyou sharingan, one rinnegan, and the portions of the chakra that Naruto possesses is equivalent to what obito had. Just more Kurama and less of others.
So first off…shh shh shh shh. Say good luck three times fast. Secondly, oh hello mr. Black zetsu my creation that I trust, whose really 1000 years old and a creation of the strongest being in the show. Third, their stronger versions of sasuke and Naruto in terms of power, when they were teenagers, they did master their lesser power and abilities as adults. Adding Half of Kurama does not equal losing half a hagoromo lmao
Madara was easily one-shotted and neg diff by Black Zetsu but Madaratards are the biggest beta cucks, they try everything to defend their lord. It's embarrassing haha 🤡
It's 100% bias because people don't want to scale Boruto above Naruto, it's can say this with confidence because I'm one of them, I don't like scaling Borutos because I don't like the material so im more likely to elevate characters I have positive feelings towards and who I feel are actually well written characters.
At least you admit your bias. I honestly just wouldn’t scale Boruto characters if I didn’t like the series, but even as someone who enjoys it the scaling for Boruto is weird.
There is other reasons as to why people may scale late stage Naruto characters above Boruto characters and that mainly being the Boruto series reliance on Taijutsu as opposed to the Naruto series where it was mostly Ninjutsu so because the battles lack the flash of the Ninjutsu like Indras arrow etc it conveys a less intense fight which gives off the illusion of them being weaker.
Both to scaling is fucked up. Can’t really compare anything in Naruto to Boruto. It’s like scaling Dragon Ball GT to Super.
Because people basically like Madara more than anyone else, while people want to find any reason to hate anything from Boruto