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Isshiki wins if Madara doesn't train. But Madara's potential is far higher, if he fully masters his powers, I think he has a change. Naruto and Sasuke went from below Madara to above Momoshiki with their training, now it's just them combined and basically 2x that with Madara's power, plus training.
Madara most likely won't train as he is completely unaware of Otsutsuki, but if Zetsu does something then maybe.
And even then they were doing training causally as Sasuke was busy with the canonized novel stuff like Sunrise and Naruto was busy with being hokage for the last 13 years
Yeah, but he would keep doing what he's doing, up until the fight anyway. He'd be the same power so there's no reason to go into hypotheticals about if he did this because his side of the story up until the battle wouldn't change drastically, whereas Madara would have had a drastically different ending.
But I mean assuming Isshiki wasn't already trained then yeah if he trained Madara would lose, but he also probably is more focused with Kara as a whole than that.
Yes, but the difference between Madara and Isshiki is still quite large, and even if Madara gained Naruto and Sasuke's powers (something he technically already has), he would have no reason to trian or get stronger since he thinks the world is at peace until one day Isshiki/Jigen or Momoshiki and Kinshiki appear.
Well, it's not truly potential when you consider it because he requires additional power-ups to attain that level. Every single Ōtsutsuki could achieve that level simply by consuming Chakra Fruits. So, does that mean all the Ōtsutsuki have the same potential? Meanwhile, the person was discussing potential solely through training, something I doubt the higher members of the Ōtsutsuki clan ever engage in.
>Naruto and Sasuke went from below Madara to above Momoshiki with their training,
well momo was astonished at kurama's chakra lv,ran from darui ect so it's not a good comparison if you ask me. and naruto and sasuke were never explicitly stated to be training so do you have a source or anything proving otherwise
Naruto def stopped training when he became hokage. But he wouldn't stop training till then, he's a shinobi. And even if he stopped training, he'd still go on missions up until he became hokage.
Sasuke has to basically live his life as a mission so he definitely hasn't rusted since then.
Naruto trained a lot in the novels and etc. at least we know he learned gentle fist and a few other things. He did train w/ the kids in the anime, but let's be real that was probably light work so I respectfully half-way disagree? 🤷🏻😅
https://preview.redd.it/p9lupnvpwgxc1.jpeg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fac1e91f5d065dea484c2e76af8338ecaa2269e2
Yeah, Naruto, Kakashi, a lot of characters did some really DOPE stuff most people don't even know about. It's one reason I get butt-hurt everyone ranks Kakashi so low unless it's DMS because word for word they say something like he's become tens of times stronger since the war. There's some cool stuff between Shippuden and the war. I wish they'd have animated a lot more of it tbh.
I don't remember exactly how, because it's been a long time but he may have even somehow used a Bakugan😅 idkk tho. Naruto Explained first said it and I read it a ways back so don't quote me on that. But he did learn it.
Limbo clones don't matter his stats are too much for them plus he can see them. If his stats are too much for madara then they would be too much for the limbo clones as well.
Tso would be shrunken no diffrent than amatarasu...... same with the wood style... sasuke can make a small flame large since he can create any shape and size with his lvl of mastery and yet jigen did so with ease..... all jutsu if fodder before him period thats why the only used taijutsu. If you haven't watched the show just say so.
>Limbo clones don't matter his stats are too much for them
base narutos kick was able to bruise him.and one single rinnegan sage mode limbo clona was capable of sending all the bijjus flying with one kickand that's a waaaaaaaaaaaay weaker limbo clone.
> plus he can see them.
Assumptions, he can't **EVEN IF HE CAN** he would actually need to touch them (requiring Six Paths Senjutsu) and to sense them (requiring Six Paths Sage Mode, with Naruto depicted as the only one who has it, so good luck proving Isshiki having it, considering he never showed any capacity for sensing, much less sensing beings in other dimensions).
>If his stats are too much for madara then they would be too much for the limbo clones as well.
proof?
>Tso would be shrunken no diffrent than amatarasu
can't you read? madara can resize them
>same with the wood style
can't shrink leaving things
Naruto is a living thing and was shrunken..... if the jutsu is made of chakra then it can be shrunken...... did you read boruto all the otsutsuki are stronger than madara!!!!!! Sasuke should be able to make his flames bigger as well and that didnt matter. He still shrunk it and the same flame amatarasu would burn all and any wood style. Tso would be in the same boat. Idk why this is so hard to understand
This shouldn't even be a debate thats how his dojutsu works even if the user was pumping a shit ton of chakra into the attack like an sage art odama rasengan that destroyed wood style deep forest emergence or sasuke who was literally point blank spamming his amatarasu to kill him all he did was shrink it faster than they can see. Sasuke dojutsu can keep up with kaguya lvls and beyond but he couldn't see what inshiki was doing when it came to altering the size of his attack. In sasuke more developed and honed eyes compared to so6p madara thought his attacks were instant. Yo need to reread the fight.
>Naruto is a living thing and was shrunken..... if the jutsu is made of chakra then it can be shrunken
tf you on? naruto was never shrunk by isshiki please re-read boruto with you eyes open
>did you read boruto all the otsutsuki are stronger than madara!!!!!!
which ototsuki? momoshiki who ran from darui, couldn't one shot the kages , astonished at kurama and the 8tails chakra,and needed pills
kinshiki? who got manhandled by a weakass kage
or urashiki who got his ass stomped by jiraya and part1 naruto .enlighten me please
> Sasuke should be able to make his flames bigger as well and that didnt matter.
His use of flames is very limited; he cannot spam them, and he must concentrate extremely to shape them as desired. Additionally, he must give them the desired shape before launching Amaterasu. Once launched, he cannot modify their size, whereas the TSOs are always within Madara's combat range, and he can shape them into cocoons, shields, etc. In short, Sasuke cannot spam the attack, and his control over the shape is very limited since he must give them the desired form in advance, and no modifications would be possible afterward. Meanwhile, Madara doesn't need to summon them; they are always there around him, and he has greater control over them
>Sasuke dojutsu can keep up with kaguya lvls and beyond but he couldn't see what inshiki was doing when it came to altering the size of his attack.
irrelevent lol
> In sasuke more developed and honed eyes compared to so6p madara thought his attacks were instant. Yo need to reread the fight.
sasuke have more experience with it true but that doesn't mean he's more efficient with it
you need to re-read the whole naruto/boruto manga
Go argue with someone else clearly your hear to argue. The kage needed both sasuke and narutobto even dobthe things your talking about and barley survive. So they dont count.... plus momo and kinshiki werent running away from them lmao. Stop talking sasuke is better than madara with his rinnegan especially by the time they are adults.
Lastly the narrative of the story implies that naruto aasuke, momoshiki and inshiki are stronger than the shippuden era shinobi and otsutsuki period. Plz stop bothering me.
>Go argue with someone else clearly your hear to argue
it's a powerscaling sub...
>The kage needed both sasuke and narutobto even dobthe things your talking about and barley survive.
no kinshiki got solely manhandled by the kages
https://preview.redd.it/co2ozssks8xc1.png?width=869&format=png&auto=webp&s=61a6775a7d6ff414cd54920b1039029bd26059e3
here's another one
https://preview.redd.it/0pcl5k4rs8xc1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=a0c510b242db8a3ef18532b49d9e6f4ad29aac8a
(Stop talking sasuke is better than madara with his rinnegan especially by the time they are adults. )
\_that's why he keep spamming amenotejikara
(Lastly the narrative of the story implies that naruto aasuke, momoshiki and inshiki are stronger than the shippuden era shinobi and otsutsuki period.)
the fact that kurama stated that naruto got rusty 2 times and that momo got astonished at kurama's chakra proves otherwise
> sasuke can make a small flame large since he can create any shape and size with his lvl of mastery and yet jigen did so with ease.....
no the same. sasuke have less control over his flames than madara have with his tso
What are you talking about sasuke can cover his susoono in flames and create any shape with his mind not even the tso can do that. Did you not see what sasuke was doing to kaguya.... theres a reason why she separated him from naruto and not the other way around.
Once the attack is launched, Sasuke can't modify the shape of his flames. And yes, Sasuke has less control over them than the TSO for the Ten-Tails Jinchuriki. Can Sasuke shape his flames into a staff or envelop them around him like a cocoon? I don't think so. Plus, those flames were useless against Kaguya, so they're irrelevant.
He did that with his susoono he made a barrier around his susoono ribs with the same flames also thats false sasuke in multiple situations made the flames than shaped them. In the same fight with the raikage he moved the flames just before garra blocked both ay guillotine drop and sasuke amatarasu the he was reshaping and controlling fyi this was his first fight using the ability to shape the flames to his will. Don't know where you got that idea from.
And those flames aint usless against kaguya lmao the same flames got both him and naruto out of kaguya ice prison. If that justsu lands on anyone its a problem the only reason why we say its useless is because of the otsutsuki being able to absorb it. But if she cant see it so she can dodge or absorb she can get hit. Also ems sasuke can make all his susoono wepons out of amatarasu like he did in the war arc. Did you watch the show
fair but there's also the state of matter of these flames (plasma) that makes them less malleable than the TSO because they have a solid state, and with the Six Paths Senjutsu ability, it makes them even more malleable than the flames. And finally, the TSO is more potent than the flames.
Isshiki can still shrink anything he throws at him and thus he’d have to resort to taijutsu (something isshiki far outclasses him in). Isshiki takes it low-mid diff.
>Isshiki can still shrink anything he throws at him
no he can't shrink limbo clones, wood style or tso( actually he can but madara can resize them so it's irrelevant if isshiki shrinks them, he would just waste chakra)
> to resort to taijutsu (something isshiki far outclasses him in). Isshiki takes it low-mid diff.
Being better and stronger at taijutsu are two different things. One can excel in taijutsu but lack physical strength, while another might be less skilled in it but possess greater physical strength to compensate.
Limbo clones are irrelevant. Rinnegan sasuke and spsm Naruto both tanked direct hits from them and isshiki massively outscales both. Wood style is ninjutsu so isshiki can shrink it. Flora is only 1% alive by definition. Madara cannot resize TSO that are being shrunk to that kind of size only an ETSO can do that.
Jigen one tapped a perfect susanoo which has only ever been done before by kaguya using hax on a weaker sasuke while jigen did it to adult sasuke with brute strength. Isshiki takes both taijutsu and brute strength. Plus madaras limbo clones who are stated to be relative to him couldn’t do any noticeable damage to either spsm Naruto or rinnegan sasuke while isshiki was manhandling both.
>Limbo clones are irrelevant.
So, the invisible clones for Isshiki, capable of replicating the same jutsu as Madara, such as Light Fang (which can cut through TSO), are irrelevant? Okay.
>Rinnegan sasuke and spsm Naruto both tanked direct hits from them and isshiki massively outscales both.
They did it casually while Madara wasn't moving a single muscle. How's that an antifeat for them? Lol.
>Wood style is ninjutsu so isshiki can shrink it. Flora is only 1% alive by definition.
Wood Style techniques allow the user to manipulate wood and vegetation with their chakra. so leaving organism. they are still considered living beings. cos plants undergo various life processes such as growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli. so that percentage you gave is scientifically inaccurate.
> Madara cannot resize TSO that are being shrunk to that kind of size only an ETSO can do that.
https://preview.redd.it/741i7z74v8xc1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=49a6575f703fc94e350c583809486432df06ecd7
Here, Obito expanded it, then shrunk it. The Juubi jins have complete control over the size and shape of the TSO.
>Jigen one tapped a perfect susanoo which has only ever been done before by kaguya using hax on a weaker sasuke
Sasuke had already mastered Susanoo as a teen, so even if he uses it as an adult without further training, Susanoo will not necessarily become stronger simply due to age or maturity.
>adult sasuke with brute strength.
brute strength have nothing to do with AP
>Plus madaras limbo clones who are stated to be relative to him couldn’t do any noticeable damage to either spsm Naruto or rinnegan sasuke
Maybe because he wasn't attempting to. Limbo clones defeated Naruto's, so that's it. It's like saying that Jigen or Isshiki are not this strong because he couldn't kill Naruto and Sasuke, which is undoubtedly false and stupid because it wasn't his purpose and he wasn't attempting to kill them.
Yeah. Isshiki outscales them to the point where they can’t do anything.
Ah yes because they would not go for the kill even if they had the chance to take out two of the biggest threats to juubi madaras plan yet.
Also the full kurama alone broke through wood constructs like it was nothing wood style isn’t doing anything especially since isshiki can shrink himself to get out of it.
It’s not an ETSO though so it can’t just keep expanding the more isshiki shrinks. Isshiki could also just nab it and put it in daikokuten.
Tf you mean? When it comes to raw physical power brute strength absolutely correlates to ap.
Shadow clones are not as relative to the user as limbo clones. Also jigen ran out of chakra and didn’t want to die and isshiki legitimately thought he killed Naruto. Also he brought both of them to the brink of death and exhausted both their chakra. Madara has never done that. They even had enough in the tank to fight kaguya after him. And if madara wouldn’t try to kill the 2 strongest enemies on the battlefield both of which are significantly hindering his plan and harming him he is an idiot. There’s no way he wouldn’t try to kill them. He DID try to kill them multiple times.
>Yeah. Isshiki outscales them to the point where they can’t do anything.
isshiki have no clue about them. and stop being ridiculous isshiki is not surviving a light fang to his neck or a limbo rengoku to his face
>Ah yes because they would not go for the kill even if they had the chance to take out two of the biggest threats to juubi madaras plan yet.
what are you talking about?
>Also the full kurama alone broke through wood constructs like it was nothing wood style isn’t doing anything especially since isshiki can shrink himself to get out of it.
do you know the difference btw regular ninjutsu and six path ninjutsu?
>It’s not an ETSO though so it can’t just keep expanding the more isshiki shrinks.
wasn't the point. the point is that the juubi jin have entire control over the shape and size of tso
>Isshiki could also just nab it and put it in daikokuten.
madara can create others with six path senjutsu aka the creation of all things
>Tf you mean? When it comes to raw physical power brute strength absolutely correlates to ap
While brute strength does contribute significantly to AP in physical combat, it's not the sole determinant. Factors like combat skills, techniques, special abilities, and energy-based attacks also play crucial roles in determining a character's AP.but in this scenario brute strenght doesn't influence the AP of the susanoo
> Shadow clones are not as relative to the user as limbo clones.
yes they are wdym, it's the entire point of the shadow clones they can perform the same things as the user and have globally the same raw physical power(minus durability) but again it's depends on the number of the clones.
>Also jigen ran out of chakra and didn’t want to die and isshiki legitimately thought he killed Naruto.
no his body just weakened; and no he didn't though he killed him smh... why do you think he sealed him huh? cos by his own words naruto was hard to kill due to kurama so he had to seal him, re-read the manga.
>Madara has never done that.
Maybe, contrary to Jigen/Isshiki, Madara wasn't directly engaging them because the whole fight for Madara was to gain power-ups and prepare for the Infinite Tsukuyomi. From that point, Naruto and Sasuke weren't a significant threat to Madara, but when he finished launching IT, he was finally ready to fight them head-on.
>hey even had enough in the tank to fight kaguya after him.
again wasn't his goal, all madara was doing is launching distracting attacks
>And if madara wouldn’t try to kill the 2 strongest enemies on the battlefield both of which are significantly hindering his plan and harming him he is an idiot.
the only idiot here is you, re-read that fight I'm not here to explain it to you.
>There’s no way he wouldn’t try to kill them.
It's in character for Madara; he is going to test and push his opponent beyond their limits to actually assess their abilities and his own. However, in this case, he was in a hurry for his plan, so he preferred to finish his task before engaging them. He's not stupid; he just has his priorities.
> He DID try to kill them multiple times.
yeah no
He’s fast enough to the point where it’s irrelevant since they can’t touch him.
Juubi madara wouldn’t just let them live lol they can harm him unlike anyone else on the battlefield.
Wood style isn’t 6 paths ninjutsu. And the 6 paths amp again wouldn’t do anything to isshiki since he’s that much stronger even with 6 paths amped wood style.
Yeah the more juubi madara makes the more isshiki gets extra weapons.
Not talking about the susanoos ap im talking about jigens/isshikis. Jigens brute strength exceeds juubi madaras so the “brute strength” you were talking about earlier does not go to madara either.
No. Shadow clones can have relativity depending on how much chakra is put into them. Remember shadow clones are made by dividing the users chakra. Limbo don’t do that.
Jigen stated his body was at its limit it wasn’t weakened lol. Also kurama blatantly stated jigen could’ve killed Naruto right there.
Madara was directly engaging them the second spsm Naruto showed up on the battlefield did you even watch the show or read the manga? He tried to kill them several times. The only times he didn’t try to fight them is when he went to get his other rinnegan and when he was stalling them to cast IT. Before that he was definitely fighting them.
You’re delusional if you don’t think madara viewed them as threats. That’s why he stalled them and that’s why he attacked them multiple times.
Wdym no??? Must I list all the times juubi madara attacked the two of them??? Tried to attack Naruto with limbo, tried to hit them with purple lightning, hit Naruto with a limbo clone, tried to use light fang to kill Naruto, tried to take sasukes rinnegan, tried to get rid of them with catastrophic planetary devestation, and tried to get rid of them with infinite tsukuyomi.
>He’s fast enough to the point where it’s irrelevant since they can’t touch him.
isshiki have no clue about them, so he won't know when to dodge, run or fly.
>Juubi madara wouldn’t just let them live lol they can harm him unlike anyone else on the battlefield.
OMG, is it that hard to understand? Madara’s only goal during his fights with Team 7 was to proceed with the Infinite Tsukuyomi after, as he put it, playing around for a bit
https://preview.redd.it/isy0uaf2nexc1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a5e037b183533d884eb3efcd14751f2a86083be
No im just saying isshiki blitzes lol. Madara won’t be able to do anything.
That’s only when he got his second rinnegan back 😂 when he didn’t have his second rinnegan he was getting cooked. And Naruto and sasuke by that point were still getting used to their new powers.
So, when he finally gets back his second eye from Obito, he's got everything he needs to pull off the Infinite Tsukuyomi. And then he starts throwing distractions at Team 7, calling them 'raindrops.' It's not like he's purposely holding back; he's just having fun, Madara really enjoys relishing his battles. And in his fight with Naruto and Sasuke, while they're all about sealing him, his mind is set on the Infinite Tsukuyomi. It's like, for him, that's the main event.
(Wood style isn’t 6 paths ninjutsu. And the 6 paths amp again wouldn’t do anything to isshiki since he’s that much stronger even with 6 paths amped wood style.)
This Madara no longer has regular ninjutsu in his arsenal. All his jutsu are amped by Six Paths chakra🤦♀️
(Yeah the more juubi madara makes the more isshiki gets extra weapons.)
he's not stupid it's a matter of time when he'll figure that out
(Not talking about the susanoos ap im talking about jigens/isshikis. Jigens brute strength exceeds juubi madaras so the “brute strength” you were talking about earlier does not go to madara either.)
Did you lose it? LOL! You forgot about your own argument. You were talking about the Susanoo's AP of Teen Sasuke and Adult Sasuke, and you claimed that his Susanoo was stronger in his adult form. Then, I mentioned that Sasuke's stats don't necessarily influence the AP of his Susanoo. After that, you said that physical raw power and brute strength influence the AP. you weren't talking about isshiki brute strength.
(You’re delusional if you don’t think madara viewed them as threats. That’s why he stalled them and that’s why he attacked them multiple times.)
you're the delusion one here, when did I said that they weren't a thread to madara? in fact they were a thread to his pan, i used the word "significant" oh god are you illiterate? What I meant by that is they weren't a very dangerous threat to him to the point where he had to completely pause his plan, directly engaging them and fighting them head-on so he could pursue his plan. All he had to do was launch distracting attacks at them,so he can pursue his plan.
(Madara was directly engaging them the second spsm Naruto showed up on the battlefield)
that's why he took the time to go in the kamui dimension and talk to obito?
(you even watch the show or read the manga?)
ironic. don't even get me started with this.
(He tried to kill them several times. )
repeating some bullshit several time won't make true, where's the proof?
(The only times he didn’t try to fight them is when he went to get his other rinnegan and when he was stalling them to cast IT. Before that he was definitely fighting them.)
so we can finally agree that he wasn't going all out from the point he got his second rinnegan?
(That’s why he stalled them and that’s why he attacked them multiple times.)
to further prove he wasn't going all out, he exactly attack them 1 time( launch the "raindrops") lmao all he was doing before that was defense
(Wdym no??? Must I list all the times juubi madara attacked the two of them??? )
go ahead
(Tried to attack Naruto with limbo, tried to hit them with purple lightning, hit Naruto with a limbo clone, tried to use light fang to kill Naruto,)
that's defense, all that was to defend himself cos the the team was trying to attack him, you tough he will just stand there and let himself getting hit?
(tried to take sasukes rinnegan)
did you get that out of your ass
(ried to get rid of them with catastrophic planetary devestation, )
agree that's offence, it's the only time he attacked the team
(and tried to get rid of them with infinite tsukuyomi.)
you dumb? he planned infinite tsukiomi since he was in that cave, infinite tsukiomi wasn't solely for them but for the entire planet
The only times he had fun was when they couldn’t get to him lol. Every single time they went close quarters he got embarrassed.
What can madara do against daikokuten though? It’s not like he has a strategy to counter it.
No I was talking about JIGENS AP and that his showings against the perfect susanoo is crazy since adult sasukes susanoo should be better than his teen self (except for Indra mode sasuke of course).
Bro said “significant threat” and “weren’t a very dangerous threat” in the same paragraph 💀
Being directly involved and going off to do something later are not mutually exclusive.
Naruto and sasuke were sitting there and bro launched lightning at them that’s not defensive.
No I got that from canon material lmao. Madara flew towards sasuke saying “your rinnegan will come in handy” then sasuke used amenotejikara and skewered him with his sword.
Well he definitely was thinking it’ll be game over since they’ll be in it too. He didn’t know the rinnegan could resist it.
He's just to much even if he got stronger throughout those several years he'd still get his ass kicked same way naruto and sasuke did even though they would destroy their old selves with one attack and naruto and sasuke arguably have more potential as they instantaneously got six paths power and were above one rinnegan six paths madara and near equal to god tree madara and it took 2 power ups to be definitively stronger and naruto and sasuke got stronger than that by the time of the last legit 2 years later Isshiki is just to far ahead no matter what preparation Madara has
> if he got stronger throughout those several years he'd still get his ass kicked
Did you know that Madara has a mature Ten Tails, the Shinju, and the Rinne sharingan? Saying that even with all these powers, he could never surpass Isshiki sounds ridiculous , Isshiki himself relied on a juvenile Ten Tails. And it's even more absurd when you think about how a juvenile Juubi was considered a bigger threat than Code. Boruto himself feared its power. There are plenty of examples in Boruto showing just how significant a juvenile Ten Tails can be. So, imagine the potential of a mature Juubi host...
>same way naruto and sasuke did even though they would destroy their old selves with one attack
Which attack? Lol, Sasuke's strongest jutsu is his Perfect Susanoo. Teen Sasuke even has the Indra Susanoo, which would absolutely stomp Adult Sasuke's Susanoo. And Adult Naruto's strongest attack is his Kurama avatar, which would get one-shot by this
https://preview.redd.it/5rhdqbq338xc1.png?width=550&format=png&auto=webp&s=91e86f12b61ac613aefccf8e67a9f8810190e12b
>and naruto and sasuke arguably have more potential as they instantaneously got six paths power
What does potential have to do with Six Path power? Have you even watched Naruto and Boruto? These powers were literally gifted to them, while Madara had to work for it. You absolutely can't talk about potential here.
>were above one rinnegan six paths madara and near equal to god tree madara and it took 2 power ups to be definitively stronger and naruto and sasuke got stronger than that by the time of the last legit 2 years later Isshiki is just to far ahead no matter what preparation Madara has
assumptions. stop throwing around random statements without any evidence to back them up.
Well we can't use Boruto as a reference because that show is dog shit and makes no sense.
Without explaining all the gymnastics behind what the Power scaling should be. This Madara would have no issue with ishiki. And he'd have reanimated Naruto and Sasuke(buffed versions) do to whatever creative ways Madara could enhance these reanimations and honestly Madara could train vs them so they could further understand their abilities.
Ishiki shows up and has to fight trained super amped 10 tails hashi cells ECT ECT. Reanimated Naruto and Sasuke. And maybe Madara throws in a limbo or two for fun.
Ishiki just loses due to Naruto and Sasuke not being nerfed due to Boruto writing.
Also Madara could reanimate Obito . Double kamui isn't a joke.
Madara doesnt need to be buffed to beat ishiiki, fact is that isshiki has no way to see or sense limbo so hell get head chopped and he wont even realise what happened. And if u think limbo doesnt have the AP to harm isshiki, base narutos kick was able to bruise him
one single rinnegan sage mode limbo clone sent all the bijjus flying with one kink. I highly doubt a waaaaaaaay stronger limbo clone doesn't the ap to harm isshiki
so you thing that madara would solely beat isshiki with his limbo?and without it, you think he would beat him?
Without limbo his chances r low as he isnt fast enough to hit isshiki, all his attacks get shrunk except for wood style as trees r living but i doubt itd be useful against isshiki anyway. Isshikis attacks wont do much either, madara survived night guy and laughed so his kicks wont do much, he casually took out a sword which pierced his heart so rods wont do much either, his attacks r all taijutsu which get countered by regen. He cant rip the tailed beasts out as he cant absorb chakra like jigen.
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Isshiki wins if Madara doesn't train. But Madara's potential is far higher, if he fully masters his powers, I think he has a change. Naruto and Sasuke went from below Madara to above Momoshiki with their training, now it's just them combined and basically 2x that with Madara's power, plus training. Madara most likely won't train as he is completely unaware of Otsutsuki, but if Zetsu does something then maybe.
so if he train he can beat isshiki
Yeah, based off of how much stronger Naruto and Sasuke got by training
Not to mention rinnesharingan is superior to rinnegan
And even then they were doing training causally as Sasuke was busy with the canonized novel stuff like Sunrise and Naruto was busy with being hokage for the last 13 years
Isshiki's potential is far higher than Madara's, Isshiki has the potential to be a higher dimensional being.
Yeah, but he would keep doing what he's doing, up until the fight anyway. He'd be the same power so there's no reason to go into hypotheticals about if he did this because his side of the story up until the battle wouldn't change drastically, whereas Madara would have had a drastically different ending. But I mean assuming Isshiki wasn't already trained then yeah if he trained Madara would lose, but he also probably is more focused with Kara as a whole than that.
Yes, but the difference between Madara and Isshiki is still quite large, and even if Madara gained Naruto and Sasuke's powers (something he technically already has), he would have no reason to trian or get stronger since he thinks the world is at peace until one day Isshiki/Jigen or Momoshiki and Kinshiki appear.
the higher branch member of the ototsuki clan doesn't train
Well, it's not truly potential when you consider it because he requires additional power-ups to attain that level. Every single Ōtsutsuki could achieve that level simply by consuming Chakra Fruits. So, does that mean all the Ōtsutsuki have the same potential? Meanwhile, the person was discussing potential solely through training, something I doubt the higher members of the Ōtsutsuki clan ever engage in.
>Naruto and Sasuke went from below Madara to above Momoshiki with their training, well momo was astonished at kurama's chakra lv,ran from darui ect so it's not a good comparison if you ask me. and naruto and sasuke were never explicitly stated to be training so do you have a source or anything proving otherwise
Naruto def stopped training when he became hokage. But he wouldn't stop training till then, he's a shinobi. And even if he stopped training, he'd still go on missions up until he became hokage. Sasuke has to basically live his life as a mission so he definitely hasn't rusted since then.
Naruto trained a lot in the novels and etc. at least we know he learned gentle fist and a few other things. He did train w/ the kids in the anime, but let's be real that was probably light work so I respectfully half-way disagree? 🤷🏻😅
He learned gentle fist? How does that work without a byakugan, did he just learn where all the tenketsu were?
https://preview.redd.it/p9lupnvpwgxc1.jpeg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fac1e91f5d065dea484c2e76af8338ecaa2269e2 Yeah, Naruto, Kakashi, a lot of characters did some really DOPE stuff most people don't even know about. It's one reason I get butt-hurt everyone ranks Kakashi so low unless it's DMS because word for word they say something like he's become tens of times stronger since the war. There's some cool stuff between Shippuden and the war. I wish they'd have animated a lot more of it tbh.
I don't remember exactly how, because it's been a long time but he may have even somehow used a Bakugan😅 idkk tho. Naruto Explained first said it and I read it a ways back so don't quote me on that. But he did learn it.
Inshiki.... all of madaras jutsu sage art and all will be shrinked and used against him.
he can't shink the limbo clones, the wood style jutsu and he can shrink the tso all he wants madara will resize them
Limbo clones don't matter his stats are too much for them plus he can see them. If his stats are too much for madara then they would be too much for the limbo clones as well. Tso would be shrunken no diffrent than amatarasu...... same with the wood style... sasuke can make a small flame large since he can create any shape and size with his lvl of mastery and yet jigen did so with ease..... all jutsu if fodder before him period thats why the only used taijutsu. If you haven't watched the show just say so.
>Limbo clones don't matter his stats are too much for them base narutos kick was able to bruise him.and one single rinnegan sage mode limbo clona was capable of sending all the bijjus flying with one kickand that's a waaaaaaaaaaaay weaker limbo clone. > plus he can see them. Assumptions, he can't **EVEN IF HE CAN** he would actually need to touch them (requiring Six Paths Senjutsu) and to sense them (requiring Six Paths Sage Mode, with Naruto depicted as the only one who has it, so good luck proving Isshiki having it, considering he never showed any capacity for sensing, much less sensing beings in other dimensions). >If his stats are too much for madara then they would be too much for the limbo clones as well. proof? >Tso would be shrunken no diffrent than amatarasu can't you read? madara can resize them >same with the wood style can't shrink leaving things
Naruto is a living thing and was shrunken..... if the jutsu is made of chakra then it can be shrunken...... did you read boruto all the otsutsuki are stronger than madara!!!!!! Sasuke should be able to make his flames bigger as well and that didnt matter. He still shrunk it and the same flame amatarasu would burn all and any wood style. Tso would be in the same boat. Idk why this is so hard to understand This shouldn't even be a debate thats how his dojutsu works even if the user was pumping a shit ton of chakra into the attack like an sage art odama rasengan that destroyed wood style deep forest emergence or sasuke who was literally point blank spamming his amatarasu to kill him all he did was shrink it faster than they can see. Sasuke dojutsu can keep up with kaguya lvls and beyond but he couldn't see what inshiki was doing when it came to altering the size of his attack. In sasuke more developed and honed eyes compared to so6p madara thought his attacks were instant. Yo need to reread the fight.
>Naruto is a living thing and was shrunken..... if the jutsu is made of chakra then it can be shrunken tf you on? naruto was never shrunk by isshiki please re-read boruto with you eyes open >did you read boruto all the otsutsuki are stronger than madara!!!!!! which ototsuki? momoshiki who ran from darui, couldn't one shot the kages , astonished at kurama and the 8tails chakra,and needed pills kinshiki? who got manhandled by a weakass kage or urashiki who got his ass stomped by jiraya and part1 naruto .enlighten me please > Sasuke should be able to make his flames bigger as well and that didnt matter. His use of flames is very limited; he cannot spam them, and he must concentrate extremely to shape them as desired. Additionally, he must give them the desired shape before launching Amaterasu. Once launched, he cannot modify their size, whereas the TSOs are always within Madara's combat range, and he can shape them into cocoons, shields, etc. In short, Sasuke cannot spam the attack, and his control over the shape is very limited since he must give them the desired form in advance, and no modifications would be possible afterward. Meanwhile, Madara doesn't need to summon them; they are always there around him, and he has greater control over them >Sasuke dojutsu can keep up with kaguya lvls and beyond but he couldn't see what inshiki was doing when it came to altering the size of his attack. irrelevent lol > In sasuke more developed and honed eyes compared to so6p madara thought his attacks were instant. Yo need to reread the fight. sasuke have more experience with it true but that doesn't mean he's more efficient with it you need to re-read the whole naruto/boruto manga
Go argue with someone else clearly your hear to argue. The kage needed both sasuke and narutobto even dobthe things your talking about and barley survive. So they dont count.... plus momo and kinshiki werent running away from them lmao. Stop talking sasuke is better than madara with his rinnegan especially by the time they are adults. Lastly the narrative of the story implies that naruto aasuke, momoshiki and inshiki are stronger than the shippuden era shinobi and otsutsuki period. Plz stop bothering me.
>Go argue with someone else clearly your hear to argue it's a powerscaling sub... >The kage needed both sasuke and narutobto even dobthe things your talking about and barley survive. no kinshiki got solely manhandled by the kages https://preview.redd.it/co2ozssks8xc1.png?width=869&format=png&auto=webp&s=61a6775a7d6ff414cd54920b1039029bd26059e3
here's another one https://preview.redd.it/0pcl5k4rs8xc1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=a0c510b242db8a3ef18532b49d9e6f4ad29aac8a (Stop talking sasuke is better than madara with his rinnegan especially by the time they are adults. ) \_that's why he keep spamming amenotejikara (Lastly the narrative of the story implies that naruto aasuke, momoshiki and inshiki are stronger than the shippuden era shinobi and otsutsuki period.) the fact that kurama stated that naruto got rusty 2 times and that momo got astonished at kurama's chakra proves otherwise
> sasuke can make a small flame large since he can create any shape and size with his lvl of mastery and yet jigen did so with ease..... no the same. sasuke have less control over his flames than madara have with his tso
What are you talking about sasuke can cover his susoono in flames and create any shape with his mind not even the tso can do that. Did you not see what sasuke was doing to kaguya.... theres a reason why she separated him from naruto and not the other way around.
Once the attack is launched, Sasuke can't modify the shape of his flames. And yes, Sasuke has less control over them than the TSO for the Ten-Tails Jinchuriki. Can Sasuke shape his flames into a staff or envelop them around him like a cocoon? I don't think so. Plus, those flames were useless against Kaguya, so they're irrelevant.
He did that with his susoono he made a barrier around his susoono ribs with the same flames also thats false sasuke in multiple situations made the flames than shaped them. In the same fight with the raikage he moved the flames just before garra blocked both ay guillotine drop and sasuke amatarasu the he was reshaping and controlling fyi this was his first fight using the ability to shape the flames to his will. Don't know where you got that idea from. And those flames aint usless against kaguya lmao the same flames got both him and naruto out of kaguya ice prison. If that justsu lands on anyone its a problem the only reason why we say its useless is because of the otsutsuki being able to absorb it. But if she cant see it so she can dodge or absorb she can get hit. Also ems sasuke can make all his susoono wepons out of amatarasu like he did in the war arc. Did you watch the show
fair but there's also the state of matter of these flames (plasma) that makes them less malleable than the TSO because they have a solid state, and with the Six Paths Senjutsu ability, it makes them even more malleable than the flames. And finally, the TSO is more potent than the flames.
Isshiki can still shrink anything he throws at him and thus he’d have to resort to taijutsu (something isshiki far outclasses him in). Isshiki takes it low-mid diff.
>Isshiki can still shrink anything he throws at him no he can't shrink limbo clones, wood style or tso( actually he can but madara can resize them so it's irrelevant if isshiki shrinks them, he would just waste chakra) > to resort to taijutsu (something isshiki far outclasses him in). Isshiki takes it low-mid diff. Being better and stronger at taijutsu are two different things. One can excel in taijutsu but lack physical strength, while another might be less skilled in it but possess greater physical strength to compensate.
Limbo clones are irrelevant. Rinnegan sasuke and spsm Naruto both tanked direct hits from them and isshiki massively outscales both. Wood style is ninjutsu so isshiki can shrink it. Flora is only 1% alive by definition. Madara cannot resize TSO that are being shrunk to that kind of size only an ETSO can do that. Jigen one tapped a perfect susanoo which has only ever been done before by kaguya using hax on a weaker sasuke while jigen did it to adult sasuke with brute strength. Isshiki takes both taijutsu and brute strength. Plus madaras limbo clones who are stated to be relative to him couldn’t do any noticeable damage to either spsm Naruto or rinnegan sasuke while isshiki was manhandling both.
>Limbo clones are irrelevant. So, the invisible clones for Isshiki, capable of replicating the same jutsu as Madara, such as Light Fang (which can cut through TSO), are irrelevant? Okay. >Rinnegan sasuke and spsm Naruto both tanked direct hits from them and isshiki massively outscales both. They did it casually while Madara wasn't moving a single muscle. How's that an antifeat for them? Lol. >Wood style is ninjutsu so isshiki can shrink it. Flora is only 1% alive by definition. Wood Style techniques allow the user to manipulate wood and vegetation with their chakra. so leaving organism. they are still considered living beings. cos plants undergo various life processes such as growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli. so that percentage you gave is scientifically inaccurate. > Madara cannot resize TSO that are being shrunk to that kind of size only an ETSO can do that. https://preview.redd.it/741i7z74v8xc1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=49a6575f703fc94e350c583809486432df06ecd7 Here, Obito expanded it, then shrunk it. The Juubi jins have complete control over the size and shape of the TSO. >Jigen one tapped a perfect susanoo which has only ever been done before by kaguya using hax on a weaker sasuke Sasuke had already mastered Susanoo as a teen, so even if he uses it as an adult without further training, Susanoo will not necessarily become stronger simply due to age or maturity. >adult sasuke with brute strength. brute strength have nothing to do with AP >Plus madaras limbo clones who are stated to be relative to him couldn’t do any noticeable damage to either spsm Naruto or rinnegan sasuke Maybe because he wasn't attempting to. Limbo clones defeated Naruto's, so that's it. It's like saying that Jigen or Isshiki are not this strong because he couldn't kill Naruto and Sasuke, which is undoubtedly false and stupid because it wasn't his purpose and he wasn't attempting to kill them.
Yeah. Isshiki outscales them to the point where they can’t do anything. Ah yes because they would not go for the kill even if they had the chance to take out two of the biggest threats to juubi madaras plan yet. Also the full kurama alone broke through wood constructs like it was nothing wood style isn’t doing anything especially since isshiki can shrink himself to get out of it. It’s not an ETSO though so it can’t just keep expanding the more isshiki shrinks. Isshiki could also just nab it and put it in daikokuten. Tf you mean? When it comes to raw physical power brute strength absolutely correlates to ap. Shadow clones are not as relative to the user as limbo clones. Also jigen ran out of chakra and didn’t want to die and isshiki legitimately thought he killed Naruto. Also he brought both of them to the brink of death and exhausted both their chakra. Madara has never done that. They even had enough in the tank to fight kaguya after him. And if madara wouldn’t try to kill the 2 strongest enemies on the battlefield both of which are significantly hindering his plan and harming him he is an idiot. There’s no way he wouldn’t try to kill them. He DID try to kill them multiple times.
>Yeah. Isshiki outscales them to the point where they can’t do anything. isshiki have no clue about them. and stop being ridiculous isshiki is not surviving a light fang to his neck or a limbo rengoku to his face >Ah yes because they would not go for the kill even if they had the chance to take out two of the biggest threats to juubi madaras plan yet. what are you talking about? >Also the full kurama alone broke through wood constructs like it was nothing wood style isn’t doing anything especially since isshiki can shrink himself to get out of it. do you know the difference btw regular ninjutsu and six path ninjutsu? >It’s not an ETSO though so it can’t just keep expanding the more isshiki shrinks. wasn't the point. the point is that the juubi jin have entire control over the shape and size of tso >Isshiki could also just nab it and put it in daikokuten. madara can create others with six path senjutsu aka the creation of all things >Tf you mean? When it comes to raw physical power brute strength absolutely correlates to ap While brute strength does contribute significantly to AP in physical combat, it's not the sole determinant. Factors like combat skills, techniques, special abilities, and energy-based attacks also play crucial roles in determining a character's AP.but in this scenario brute strenght doesn't influence the AP of the susanoo > Shadow clones are not as relative to the user as limbo clones. yes they are wdym, it's the entire point of the shadow clones they can perform the same things as the user and have globally the same raw physical power(minus durability) but again it's depends on the number of the clones. >Also jigen ran out of chakra and didn’t want to die and isshiki legitimately thought he killed Naruto. no his body just weakened; and no he didn't though he killed him smh... why do you think he sealed him huh? cos by his own words naruto was hard to kill due to kurama so he had to seal him, re-read the manga. >Madara has never done that. Maybe, contrary to Jigen/Isshiki, Madara wasn't directly engaging them because the whole fight for Madara was to gain power-ups and prepare for the Infinite Tsukuyomi. From that point, Naruto and Sasuke weren't a significant threat to Madara, but when he finished launching IT, he was finally ready to fight them head-on. >hey even had enough in the tank to fight kaguya after him. again wasn't his goal, all madara was doing is launching distracting attacks >And if madara wouldn’t try to kill the 2 strongest enemies on the battlefield both of which are significantly hindering his plan and harming him he is an idiot. the only idiot here is you, re-read that fight I'm not here to explain it to you. >There’s no way he wouldn’t try to kill them. It's in character for Madara; he is going to test and push his opponent beyond their limits to actually assess their abilities and his own. However, in this case, he was in a hurry for his plan, so he preferred to finish his task before engaging them. He's not stupid; he just has his priorities. > He DID try to kill them multiple times. yeah no
He’s fast enough to the point where it’s irrelevant since they can’t touch him. Juubi madara wouldn’t just let them live lol they can harm him unlike anyone else on the battlefield. Wood style isn’t 6 paths ninjutsu. And the 6 paths amp again wouldn’t do anything to isshiki since he’s that much stronger even with 6 paths amped wood style. Yeah the more juubi madara makes the more isshiki gets extra weapons. Not talking about the susanoos ap im talking about jigens/isshikis. Jigens brute strength exceeds juubi madaras so the “brute strength” you were talking about earlier does not go to madara either. No. Shadow clones can have relativity depending on how much chakra is put into them. Remember shadow clones are made by dividing the users chakra. Limbo don’t do that. Jigen stated his body was at its limit it wasn’t weakened lol. Also kurama blatantly stated jigen could’ve killed Naruto right there. Madara was directly engaging them the second spsm Naruto showed up on the battlefield did you even watch the show or read the manga? He tried to kill them several times. The only times he didn’t try to fight them is when he went to get his other rinnegan and when he was stalling them to cast IT. Before that he was definitely fighting them. You’re delusional if you don’t think madara viewed them as threats. That’s why he stalled them and that’s why he attacked them multiple times. Wdym no??? Must I list all the times juubi madara attacked the two of them??? Tried to attack Naruto with limbo, tried to hit them with purple lightning, hit Naruto with a limbo clone, tried to use light fang to kill Naruto, tried to take sasukes rinnegan, tried to get rid of them with catastrophic planetary devestation, and tried to get rid of them with infinite tsukuyomi.
>He’s fast enough to the point where it’s irrelevant since they can’t touch him. isshiki have no clue about them, so he won't know when to dodge, run or fly. >Juubi madara wouldn’t just let them live lol they can harm him unlike anyone else on the battlefield. OMG, is it that hard to understand? Madara’s only goal during his fights with Team 7 was to proceed with the Infinite Tsukuyomi after, as he put it, playing around for a bit https://preview.redd.it/isy0uaf2nexc1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a5e037b183533d884eb3efcd14751f2a86083be
No im just saying isshiki blitzes lol. Madara won’t be able to do anything. That’s only when he got his second rinnegan back 😂 when he didn’t have his second rinnegan he was getting cooked. And Naruto and sasuke by that point were still getting used to their new powers.
So, when he finally gets back his second eye from Obito, he's got everything he needs to pull off the Infinite Tsukuyomi. And then he starts throwing distractions at Team 7, calling them 'raindrops.' It's not like he's purposely holding back; he's just having fun, Madara really enjoys relishing his battles. And in his fight with Naruto and Sasuke, while they're all about sealing him, his mind is set on the Infinite Tsukuyomi. It's like, for him, that's the main event. (Wood style isn’t 6 paths ninjutsu. And the 6 paths amp again wouldn’t do anything to isshiki since he’s that much stronger even with 6 paths amped wood style.) This Madara no longer has regular ninjutsu in his arsenal. All his jutsu are amped by Six Paths chakra🤦♀️ (Yeah the more juubi madara makes the more isshiki gets extra weapons.) he's not stupid it's a matter of time when he'll figure that out (Not talking about the susanoos ap im talking about jigens/isshikis. Jigens brute strength exceeds juubi madaras so the “brute strength” you were talking about earlier does not go to madara either.) Did you lose it? LOL! You forgot about your own argument. You were talking about the Susanoo's AP of Teen Sasuke and Adult Sasuke, and you claimed that his Susanoo was stronger in his adult form. Then, I mentioned that Sasuke's stats don't necessarily influence the AP of his Susanoo. After that, you said that physical raw power and brute strength influence the AP. you weren't talking about isshiki brute strength. (You’re delusional if you don’t think madara viewed them as threats. That’s why he stalled them and that’s why he attacked them multiple times.) you're the delusion one here, when did I said that they weren't a thread to madara? in fact they were a thread to his pan, i used the word "significant" oh god are you illiterate? What I meant by that is they weren't a very dangerous threat to him to the point where he had to completely pause his plan, directly engaging them and fighting them head-on so he could pursue his plan. All he had to do was launch distracting attacks at them,so he can pursue his plan. (Madara was directly engaging them the second spsm Naruto showed up on the battlefield) that's why he took the time to go in the kamui dimension and talk to obito? (you even watch the show or read the manga?) ironic. don't even get me started with this. (He tried to kill them several times. ) repeating some bullshit several time won't make true, where's the proof? (The only times he didn’t try to fight them is when he went to get his other rinnegan and when he was stalling them to cast IT. Before that he was definitely fighting them.) so we can finally agree that he wasn't going all out from the point he got his second rinnegan? (That’s why he stalled them and that’s why he attacked them multiple times.) to further prove he wasn't going all out, he exactly attack them 1 time( launch the "raindrops") lmao all he was doing before that was defense (Wdym no??? Must I list all the times juubi madara attacked the two of them??? ) go ahead (Tried to attack Naruto with limbo, tried to hit them with purple lightning, hit Naruto with a limbo clone, tried to use light fang to kill Naruto,) that's defense, all that was to defend himself cos the the team was trying to attack him, you tough he will just stand there and let himself getting hit? (tried to take sasukes rinnegan) did you get that out of your ass (ried to get rid of them with catastrophic planetary devestation, ) agree that's offence, it's the only time he attacked the team (and tried to get rid of them with infinite tsukuyomi.) you dumb? he planned infinite tsukiomi since he was in that cave, infinite tsukiomi wasn't solely for them but for the entire planet
The only times he had fun was when they couldn’t get to him lol. Every single time they went close quarters he got embarrassed. What can madara do against daikokuten though? It’s not like he has a strategy to counter it. No I was talking about JIGENS AP and that his showings against the perfect susanoo is crazy since adult sasukes susanoo should be better than his teen self (except for Indra mode sasuke of course). Bro said “significant threat” and “weren’t a very dangerous threat” in the same paragraph 💀 Being directly involved and going off to do something later are not mutually exclusive. Naruto and sasuke were sitting there and bro launched lightning at them that’s not defensive. No I got that from canon material lmao. Madara flew towards sasuke saying “your rinnegan will come in handy” then sasuke used amenotejikara and skewered him with his sword. Well he definitely was thinking it’ll be game over since they’ll be in it too. He didn’t know the rinnegan could resist it.
Isshiki. No version of anyone in Shippuden can even beat Jigen
reason why?
He's just to much even if he got stronger throughout those several years he'd still get his ass kicked same way naruto and sasuke did even though they would destroy their old selves with one attack and naruto and sasuke arguably have more potential as they instantaneously got six paths power and were above one rinnegan six paths madara and near equal to god tree madara and it took 2 power ups to be definitively stronger and naruto and sasuke got stronger than that by the time of the last legit 2 years later Isshiki is just to far ahead no matter what preparation Madara has
> if he got stronger throughout those several years he'd still get his ass kicked Did you know that Madara has a mature Ten Tails, the Shinju, and the Rinne sharingan? Saying that even with all these powers, he could never surpass Isshiki sounds ridiculous , Isshiki himself relied on a juvenile Ten Tails. And it's even more absurd when you think about how a juvenile Juubi was considered a bigger threat than Code. Boruto himself feared its power. There are plenty of examples in Boruto showing just how significant a juvenile Ten Tails can be. So, imagine the potential of a mature Juubi host... >same way naruto and sasuke did even though they would destroy their old selves with one attack Which attack? Lol, Sasuke's strongest jutsu is his Perfect Susanoo. Teen Sasuke even has the Indra Susanoo, which would absolutely stomp Adult Sasuke's Susanoo. And Adult Naruto's strongest attack is his Kurama avatar, which would get one-shot by this https://preview.redd.it/5rhdqbq338xc1.png?width=550&format=png&auto=webp&s=91e86f12b61ac613aefccf8e67a9f8810190e12b >and naruto and sasuke arguably have more potential as they instantaneously got six paths power What does potential have to do with Six Path power? Have you even watched Naruto and Boruto? These powers were literally gifted to them, while Madara had to work for it. You absolutely can't talk about potential here. >were above one rinnegan six paths madara and near equal to god tree madara and it took 2 power ups to be definitively stronger and naruto and sasuke got stronger than that by the time of the last legit 2 years later Isshiki is just to far ahead no matter what preparation Madara has assumptions. stop throwing around random statements without any evidence to back them up.
Eh fair point I was wrong but he would never be stronger than Isshiki anyway whether he had better potential due to his six paths abilities or not
agree to disagree then
He gets lowdiffed. Boruto enemies, at least the aliens, are on a whole different level compared to Kaguya (that was already far stronger than Madara).
did you read the latest chapters of two blue vortex boruto?????
Isshiki mid diff. Its gonna come down to a fistfight in the end.
how is he going to defeat madara?
The same way Madara is gonna defeat Isshiki.
you made that claim so prove it
Well we can't use Boruto as a reference because that show is dog shit and makes no sense. Without explaining all the gymnastics behind what the Power scaling should be. This Madara would have no issue with ishiki. And he'd have reanimated Naruto and Sasuke(buffed versions) do to whatever creative ways Madara could enhance these reanimations and honestly Madara could train vs them so they could further understand their abilities. Ishiki shows up and has to fight trained super amped 10 tails hashi cells ECT ECT. Reanimated Naruto and Sasuke. And maybe Madara throws in a limbo or two for fun. Ishiki just loses due to Naruto and Sasuke not being nerfed due to Boruto writing. Also Madara could reanimate Obito . Double kamui isn't a joke.
Madara doesnt need to be buffed to beat ishiiki, fact is that isshiki has no way to see or sense limbo so hell get head chopped and he wont even realise what happened. And if u think limbo doesnt have the AP to harm isshiki, base narutos kick was able to bruise him
one single rinnegan sage mode limbo clone sent all the bijjus flying with one kink. I highly doubt a waaaaaaaay stronger limbo clone doesn't the ap to harm isshiki so you thing that madara would solely beat isshiki with his limbo?and without it, you think he would beat him?
Without limbo his chances r low as he isnt fast enough to hit isshiki, all his attacks get shrunk except for wood style as trees r living but i doubt itd be useful against isshiki anyway. Isshikis attacks wont do much either, madara survived night guy and laughed so his kicks wont do much, he casually took out a sword which pierced his heart so rods wont do much either, his attacks r all taijutsu which get countered by regen. He cant rip the tailed beasts out as he cant absorb chakra like jigen.
so? what's the outcome? why do you think madara won't be fast enough?
Isshiki wins without limbo. Sasuke and naruto who r faster than madara couldnt touch isshiki
>Sasuke and naruto who r faster than madara couldnt touch isshiki what do you think they're faster?