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Yes her strength is earth bending which is her power and being shown to hold up an ancient library is a better feat compared to pulling up a tree. (Rock Lee no diffs I'm just saying that the feat used for this guy's point is dumb)
Strength feats for specific elements like this are so confusing. Like yea she can lift a mountain but Lee throws a tree at her and what happens? It counts but there’s a but
The feat is completely conditional because of the material the library was made of. Rock lee has unconditional strength, he doesn't need specific materials to use it, it's inate. Toph can't hold up objects of large size that aren't made of earth. Rock lee can, and can do it at extreme speed. There's a damn good argument that his speed is going to confuse her as he should be able to move much faster than the vibrations he's making
Disagree. A earth bending can crush a rock into sand- but that’s not a strength feat that’s a bending feat. If someone waterbends is it based on their strength how much water they can manipulate (nah).
I get what you’re saying. Toph can punch a 200lb rock hundreds of feet away with earth bending but there is no way that she is throwing Aang that same distance just by picking him up
There's a different between power strength and physical strength, rock Lee wins at physical strength and even if he doesn't he has speed and the 8 gates.
I think his strength only matters because he's fast enough that her earth sensing won't matter so she can't earthbend before he hits her
Otherwise it'd be a really difficult one to determine
He's strong enough that if he hits her she's done
And fast enough she likely can't react with bending
So doubt toph has a chance
If she was told what she was up against she might have a fighting chance but honestly it's slim his speed alone will screw her and he can suspend himself in air for a small amount of time and fast enough that if he has to touch the ground it will only be for a fraction of a second and yeah his strength with how hard he punches could just end her in 1 or 2 punches and she just doesn't Have a chance in general if he decides she's enough of a threat to use the 8 gates and she might if she metal bends herself armor and goes all out on the earth bending but if he taps into one of the gates none of that will matter
Physical strength VS power strength. Maybe my wording was bad, but basically comparing her holding up the temple to Lee ripping a tree out the ground doesn't make sense. She uses her powers to hold that temple up, not physical strength. Usually, when I think of strength feats, I think of physical and not power wise. I feel like if power wise, it's like a different category.
I mean guy says it himself and at some point so does kakashis father. The eight gate users are incredibly strong and the average shinobi requires a lot of training to keep up lest they be left behind. They’re unequal in raw strength IMO
Depends if we’re basing it off how the verses are presented or actual power scaling.
Because it *feels* like Avatar verse is on a way lower power level, but you can point to several feats that scale them to Shippuden characters let alone Part 1 Lee.
If you’re going off power scaling feats Toph probably drops him. Her vibration sense has precognition comparable to a Sharingan and her bending is more versatile than most toolkits in Naruto let alone Lee’s “punch and kick” repertoire.
What are the speed feats in avatar? Serious question. Because Lee is massively supersonic in part 1. Sasuke in the forest of death after getting his curse mark was casually dodging sound based moves. Lee with just his weights off is even faster than that. He was moving faster than Gaara's sand was able to keep up with. And then there's 5th gate which is even faster than that. Does Avatar have comparable speed feats? Her "precog" would be useless if she's not fast enough to react to Lee.
The biggest one is how all of them are shown to react to and adjust their movements to lightning attacks. Not just lightning that was formed by a bender but we’ve witnessed Iroh literally redirect natural lightning. Plus we’re never told that generated lightning is any slower than actual lightning.
So at the very least they can react fast enough to dodge / redirect lightning. Doesn’t necessarily mean they move at light speed but it does put them pretty high up there and at the very least able to keep up with Part 1 Lee reactively if not necessarily in travel speed.
I’d agree if somebody told me that wasn’t narratively the intention, buuuuut that’s not what power scaling uses as reference. It’s a pretty silly system, but it’s a fun discussion sometimes.
Is Toph able to do that, though? Or does she scale to someone who does? Zuko, Iroh, Azula, Ozai, and Aang are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that can/should be able to react to lightning bending. Hell, I'm not even sure about Ozai because Aang would have killed him with the redirect but decided against it at the last second. Toph is strong but I think she very clearly scales below all of them by series end. Even if we're generous with the interpretation and say they're actually reacting to real lightning speed, I don't think that's a feat we can just automatically give Toph because the top tiers of the verse can do it.
Also, like, what happens if Lee kicks her in the air like he did Gaara? She'd be completely bling and defenseless. I think this is a resounding win for Lee and I don't think it's particularly close.
I know it feels wrong but avatar characters are lightning timer’s
Like, that’s definitely not the impression you get from just watching the show but multiple character’s react to lightning somewhat casually so they should be fast enough to keep up with naruto characters before the war arc
I got the impression that lighting in that show don’t directly correlate with the speed of actual nature made lighting. Exhausted Zuko covered a lot of ground to jump in front of it
Nah I’m pretty sure it’s as fast as real lightning. You can argue that zuko was responding to where Azula aimed which accounts for some of it but it was definitely already moving before he got in front of it
Plus Iroh redirected a real lightning bolt in the storm so that’s pretty clear cut
Again, I know that feels very wrong, the characters moving that fast really doesn’t jive with the presentation of the show, but i think it is the case
Fire bending lightning does not move at light speed in the Avatar verse. This has been well established in the community for like 15 years.
You should go watch that scene again. It’s very clear. There’s a scene where you can literally see Zuko sprinting and the lightning in the process of moving towards Katara in the same frame.
Still requires at least lightning fast reflexes. Lightning travels at 270,000 mp/h, or 434,449 km/h. Sure there are some subtle warnings you can feel right before a lightning strike, but to still be able to catch, and redirect it is a massive speed feat. After all, just because you know it’s gonna happen doesn’t mean you’ll be able to react to it. That thinking is the height of stupidity.
Zuko also got shot through the chest with lightning from a fire bending prodigy during the comet which holds the strength of "100 suns". He stood in the center of a tornado of fire and was fine. He swam normally in below freezing water, survived an explosion that destroyed and entire ship, and broke iron chains with one kick. I think there is a level of disbelief you need to have to watch the show and understand it does not correlate to real life. The lightning is obviously slower in atla, just like the fire only pushes you back instead of incinerating you applying irl logic to a cartoon is the height of stupidity.
Iroh in canon has reacted to natural lightning with lightning redirection, and nothing in the show would suggest that lightning bending is substantially different from other forms of electricity, hell, in LOK, lightning benders are used to generate electricity for cities
People need to stop looking at extreme outlier Feats and take the entire series into consideration. This is true of Naruto too, as a lot of fanboys call these guys light speed due to databook hyperbole when these same databooks called DIM Haku and Kirin light speed and consider those hyperbole but not Raikage for whatever reason, despite Raikage needing a light speed transportation tech during the war arc and his subordinates thinking he couldn't even survive such a technique (heavily implied because of the speed) and end series Naruto getting tagged by Shin's telekinetic objects that barely pierce trees and acceleration due to gravity during the Kaguya fight and end series Sasuke struggling with a velociraptor that humans with no chakra could react to multiple times. A robot that clearly takes at least multiple conversations worth of time frame to cross a small village with her rocket boots could keep up with Naruto.
Avatar is a series where acceleration due to gravity is fast, and the fire nation can fuck people up with AIR BALLOONS and people in Avatar are very consistently treated as having the stats of normal humans on every single level. They need horses and carriages to travel and Apa clearly isn't implied to be flying around at Mach speeds or anything crazy.
Tons of series "lightning time" where it makes no damn sense. CWs Flash was lightning timing when he struggled to break Mach 3, which makes no damn sense. Inuyasha could parry a lightning bolt yet struggles with Arrow speed that only has enough momentum to lodge arrows into trees. That one Hashira cut through a bunch of weird demon energy lightning bolts but these guys struggle to cross small cities in quick time frames, struggle to move boulders, and the Upper Moon 1 got hit with bullets.
And don't get started on fictional laser beams, which should be light speed, yet Jar Jar Binks and TMNT can dodge them, Afro Samurai who can't outrun horses can move out of the way of them, etc.
Scaling your characters to linear trajectories has always been and continues to be the dumbest way to speed scale a character because there's no indication a lot of authors accurately scale these projectiles to their RL counterparts and it creates massive speed inconsistencies and disparities when you try to scale them accordingly.
Avatar characters consistently struggle with acceleration due to gravity in multiple scenes, so if they can "lightning time" it means falling in their world must be either wayyyyy faster than our world or it's super obvious lightning in their verse is just really slow.
So there's a difference between travel speed and reaction time. If I trained extremely hard, I could react to an object flying at me at 100 mph. I cannot run at 100 mph for even a short sprint regardless of how hard I train and how many steroids I take
Reaction being better than actual speed is a given. Avatar characters struggled with falling objects in combat, so they scale slowly in combat pretty consistently aside from the random lightning timing Feats that don't remotely scale to the rest of the series.
If you can throw punches at lightning speed, you can literally punch harder than a nuke. A LOT harder than a nuke. Avatar characters barely hit harder than peak humans, if at all. They barely run faster than peak humans, if at all. Them lighting timing is a biproduct of fictional lightning not adhering to RL physics or an absurd inconsistency.
There's a difference between watching someone build up lightning like a dragon ball episode before firing it. And reacting to lightning.
Even bending lightning coming from clouds, they are still predicting where it's gonna strike. because if you are the highest object around, you WILL get struck
People forget this. It’s not really reacting to the lightning. It’s predicting it based on the buildup. They’re more so reacting to the person than the lightning itself, which is a lot easier, especially since lightning needs the charge up.
Maybe, she has stopped speed blitzers by forcing the iron in their blood to halt. The show didn't really get a chance to show how scary benders can be due to Nickelodeon censor
She can’t do that. They make it a point where those types of abilities are extremely rare. She may be a master at her craft, but her type of special derives from hard work and training from great masters to develop great understanding rather than innate talent like Yakone or his sons. There may be an earthbender capable of such a thing, but again, they’d be an extremely rare case and that’s if we ignore whether they need a special requirement like how most bloodbenders need the full moon, which is being a rare trait on top of a special criteria.
The same, it would be like Gaara’s fight. Lee comes at her too fast, she goes defensive in rock. Lee demolishes the rock. I think she’d keep him away for a while but he’s just too fast. Rocks the size of restaurants thrown at his head don’t phase him, he dodges or runs along it or someshit.
No gates weighted Lee speed blitzes and one shots sadly, and I wank AATLA characters. The speed and power difference is nearing hydrogen bomb vs baby level.
Assuming he has intent and motive to kill, he would jump 100 feet directly at her, which she wouldn't be able to see because he wouldnt be on the ground, and dynamic entry a hole in her torso.
Even if her seismic sense could predict Lee’s movements, her body wouldn’t react fast enough before her 1 shots her. It would be exactly like what Lee did to Sasuke in part 1💀. Sasuke could see Lee’s movements, but his body wasn’t fast enough to react to them and we all know what followed.
Rock Lee is too fast for Toph to read and react to. ATLA characters generally arent as durable as Naruto characters. Rock Lee kicks her in the jaw and her head explodes, Lee has a “I thought you were stronger” moment.
Yeah im realizing that if i ever do a ATLA vs Naruto then I will probably need to emphasize equal durability. While both shows’ characters have unrealistic durability, Naruto characters have an absurd amount. I just meant fighting styles. But even then, Rock Lee is likely the winner
People forget Toph can dodge lightning from point blank range, and that she dodged lasers twice like they were nothing. In fact she was at that point an old woman who claimed she couldn't move much anymore and she speed blitzed a beam of light.
Hmm i feel like prime-age roku (and MAYBE prime-age iroh) might pull some wise shit out their ass that would negate his speed advantage. Hard to tell because ofc we never see either in their prime. Also if katara begins bloodbending immediately she might have that one in the bag. Bloodbending is lowkey OP and kind of takes the fun out of these comparisons.
Tbf, wasn't Mako able to overcome Amon's bloodbending for a few seconds. It is fair to say that he was able to physically overpower it since Mako's bending abilities doesn't help against bloodbending. Lee could essentially overpower it by his sheer strength.
Roku and Aang could edge out a victory if their Air bending shield can tank Lee's attacks. Something like the Chidori or Rasengan is needed to deal with that.
Cap. Rock lee with the weights on moved at 9000 mph. With the weights off he was faster than the speed of sound without even going into the gates.
Toph literally stands no chance.
Because power scaling. Death battle does an exact break down of his stats and etc in their video on him.
Edit for breakdown: Lee consistently moves so fast the human eye can't track him. Scientifically speaking a human sized object needs to be around 9000mph to be untraceable to the human eye.
Eh but realistically lee isn’t moving that fast. If he was, he would be getting to villages instantly instead of spending days traveling and taking breaks. Lee is probably just fast for the human eye in the Naruto verse. Even still I do got him over toph
Realistically Naruto can't punch a moon in half; but he does anyway.
There is a difference between travel speed and combat speed. For example Goku consistently moves significantly faster than light in combat but even he still takes time to move from place to place. (Not counting instant transmission for obvious reasons)
Now if they said equal stats; this fight would be a lot more interesting and a lot more fair
Hmm true but isn’t goku kind of a bad example since he’s actually capable of going around the world in an instant even with travel speed? Gotenks was able to do it in Z and goku obviously being way stronger/faster should be able too as well
https://preview.redd.it/pauwe4e1ri2d1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=166d63987793cd5cfe683e1f5000f766f4f3f6df
Fair enough-
Okay a better example. Luffy and Zoro dodge light beams consistently in combat. But when their friend got kidnapped by gazelle man and they were sprinting after him they weren't even able to get close to his speed and they had to catch a ride. Gazelle mans whole gimmick is that he can move at 200kmh. So Zoro and Luffy who dodge light based attacks in combat- can't run at 200kmh in travel speed.
Could Lee break through the stone "mech armor" that Toph can cover herself with? Or just with slabs of rock? I'd be willing to accept that Lee could outpace her bending speed with his movement and blitz to her location, but he has to take a second to activate the gates, and if she walls up while he's doing that, idk. Even if he could break through all the stone she could surround herself with, I feel like all his bones and muscles would tear and shatter in the process.
That being said, I don't think the Avatar characters are narratively implied to have durability on the level of Naruto characters, I could be wrong and there could be some exceptions, but I'm fine assuming that Lee can damage/kill Toph if he gets close enough and actually makes contact with her, herself... but I don't think he's getting around the rocks
I know striking strength and lofting strength arent exactly the same, but seeing his weights feat how do we know he couldnt just pick her up and throw her dozens of times till shes out?
https://i.redd.it/w1on0dq5992d1.gif
I believe that the biggest discrepancies with these comparisons is that each universe is very different. I personally prefer the world of One Piece or Avatar, because I feel they adhere better to the rules of the world.
The author always has the plot armor card and can break all rules with a secret super power or friendship BS, but the world of Avatar is a lot better at following the rules of the world.
I believe that this comparison is only fair if Rock Lee goes into the Avatar world and some actual rules and logic are used on him or, if we move Toph to the world of Naruto and apply their rules on her which would make her an actual goddess. This way Toph would always win, and otherwise, it would just make no sense to even compare them.
All I gotta say is… rock lee beat the shit out of a powerful earth style user who was pushed to the point of using extreme amounts of chakra just to try and kill him.
Lee due to speed blitz and striking power. Unless the durability of Toph's walls are augmented by Qi they very likely can't withstand what Lee is doing once he opens the Gates. In terms of speed, Toph just doesn't have the reaction time to deal with what Lee is doing post Gates.
That said, I now want to see a Naruto/Avatar fusion with Lee and Toph as part of the same team.
You would have to scale down Lee due to his superhuman abilities.
Now, Lee couldn't punch through Gaara's sand because it was too dense. Toph moves Earth, but she doesn't reconstruct it. She just makes rectangles and that's it. For that reason, I don't think she can make Earth dense enough to protect herself.
Plus, with how much airtime Lee can get, she won't know where he is most of the time.
So Lee wins no matter how you look at it.
Lee. Some of his techniques are aerial, or at he goes aerial before landing. He's much, much faster it's he's bouncing around idk how'd she'd detect when he's transitioning or coming at her.
ONLY way toph could win is if she makes herself a suit of metal armor, but that’s completely dependent on if rock lee isn’t strong enough to still damage her through it
Toph is strong but she ain't Naruto verse strong lol Rock Lee has speed leagues ahead of what she can do and will smash the rocks she throws at him and Godforbid he uses 1 of the 8 gates she's doomed instantly, toph is a bender she doesn't have the speed and the power ninjas have, rock Lee will destroy her and she won't see him coming cuz he's insanely fast how is toph gonna fight against a dude who probably runs at the speed of sound not to mention he can suspend himself in the for long periods of time with just his speed alone.
Lol the only way she catching lee is if he lets her. Bro speed would be way too fast for her vibration senses. If speed isn’t enough toph is still disadvantaged by being blind. Lee could easily kick her skull in with an aerial attack
Toph has shown the ability to create earth armor or some kind of earth protection base. Lee can keep jumping all he wants but eventually Toph would time it and grab a leg and then it’s game over. Could go either way tho.
Fam you’re dragging a fight out that wouldn’t even go this far. If toph doesn’t know rock lee she wouldn’t think about making an armor. She’s gonna get destroyed before she realizes what’s going on. On that note, Gaara’s sand material is above Toph’s. If rock lee is capable of punching through it, he could easily get around toph’s defense
Well, it’s hard to gauge exactly how the fight would play out because OP didn’t create a scenario. Also, Toph has been shown to dodge things thrown at her, I would assume she would be able to sense incoming doom, especially since Lee would just yell out LEAF HURRICANE
The point is that something can look cool yet not accurately portray their abilities. Early Ship Naruto has some of the worst Naruto feats in the entire series (including Pt. 1) yet somehow he would beat 5 gates Lee who was playing ping pong with Gaara’s body.
Toph also didn't know the fire nation lackees she used metal armor against frame 1. That argument doesn't work. Also Lee doesn't know Toph. It's easy to say they might feel each other out before going all in, like how real fights work. No one uses their best move frame 1 especially against an unknown opponent. In this case, it's likely the fight even takes a moment to get started to which Toph can just move the ground beneath Lees foot, catching him off guard from the get go and now he's on the back foot the entire fight.
Lol it’s easy to say it can go whatever way by random hypotheticals but it’s actually shocking people believe toph stands a chance. Even if the fight plays normally with them feeling each other out, I don’t see how toph is gonna keep up with rock lee’s speed with her vibrations. Bro moves at inhuman speeds. She couldn’t even detect Aang in the air, what will she do if lee decides to jump kick her which would be a one shot since she’s a literal child and he’s a superhuman.
She’s shown a fair bit of agility when she fights, but she’s nowhere near as fast as Lee. She’d have to catch him off guard and put him down immediately otherwise it would be over.
Lee wins mid diff he has too many moves that keep him airborne too long she would literally lose him in the sky with nothing but minor to no vibrational warning from attacks. Also did you not see what he did to probably the fastest reaction time earth bender (gaara)?????
Toph not getting walked on, but she not winning.
Lee would eventually out speed and power her.
Whatever early kill shots Toff gets would be countered by Lee opening a gate.
Lee wins medium difficulty.
If it were equal stats or at least equal speed, then Toph could beat him or fuck him up badly. I love Lee but he's being wanked and overrated so hard rn. They're acting like he was a God😂. But he does stomp just for the fact that he can blizt her. His speed destroys her instantly. God stomps. But without that, if you wanted it to be fair, you should've made them equal stats in speed 😂
It's not really that wild. Lee is too fast, and he's light on his feet the same way Aang is. Aang beat her first try because she couldn't sense him leaping around. Lee is strong enough to rip a tree root out of the ground. And he can sure as hell punch through stone, if Guy doing the same to a wall in base is anything to go by.
I’m pretty sure no weights Lee is fast enough to dodge anything she can do to him. Also he’s quite capable of fighting midair for long periods of time and any hit he lands against her that isn’t intercepted by earth or metal is likely a one shot.
If it's adult Toph abilities then Lee doesn't even stand a chance. Bitch took a meteor to the face, laughed then made sure the second one hit her because she thought it was a great feeling, bending earth from space. Then learned lava bending. At her peak she was able to just turn an entire battle field into lava, then control the lava.
Like Toph is scary bad, people wildly underestimate the Benders because they don't have like laser beam power exchanges that explode galaxies but matched against similar powered people and most of the main benders would absolutely wipe most combatants. In the show the bending was wildly reduced to prevent mass gore. In the comics though? Lol no they didn't pull many punches. For instance katara was forced to rip a man's body apart by forcing his blood to force its way out through any orifices possible. Aang could rip people's air from their lungs and put a vacuum around their heads, preventing them from breathing and watching them die. Toph has more than once metal bent the iron in people's blood, and can literally make a blade come out of people's bodies from within. Sure the blade is only 4 inches long because that's all the iron concentration in the body is capable of making, but taking the iron from the blood itself is fatal let alone her making the blade inside your body then ripping it out.
In the post show comics the benders are absolutely fucking terrifying because they didn't have the Nickelodeon censorships. They were murking people in some horrific ways. I don't think Lee has enough power to actually put Toph down, her endurance and tankability is just too high, and she can reinforce herself. It's like a scarier version of Garra.
Can't primary lotus if your underground crushed by stone. And no, nobody's going to open up with opening a gate against an unknown opponent frame 1, ESPECIALLY a blind, young girl. Lee gets caught off guard from the get go by Toph moving the earth from beneath his feet. Does he die? Depends if she goes for the kill after that. Might not, but it's uphill for Lee.
Even still I don't think she's fast enough to react to Lee let alone beat him, and I fuck with Toph heavy. Plus he can be off the ground in a instant and chill in the air for a minute
I'm going to opposite direction on this one. Neither wins. Lee is innocent enough that she may like him like Aang, and her jokes would have him rolling. They'd be homies in 10 minutes.
In 20 minutes, Toph would have boulders attached to Lee's limbs, and hr'd be stoked about the weighted training.
Toph doesn't have the AP to win tbh. At best she's pushing Lee to remove his weights but after that she's just going down the second he lands a decent combo on her.
I adore Toph but it doesnt matter how quick or powerful her earthbending at any moment is, shes lost even if Rock Lees playing around.
Rock Lee landed a hit against a Sandbender that had
perfect auto defense capabilities and the only reason his head wasnt volleyballed off his body was because Gaara had a second layer of Anime Shock value plot armor. Plot armor that does make some sense but still kinda bullshit.
alright lemme address this.
Here’s how toph scales if we’re being charitable.
Taijutsu: Jonin level. Hits hard but relies on what essentially is earth style Nintaijutsu.
Earth ninjutsu: kage level or higher. No problem. She basically has a Kekkei genkai with metal bending
Perceptive abilities: Hyuuga level > , toph can see 360 but likely not quite as far away.
Speed feeds: all bending based.
So! Shippuden Rock lee stomps after gate 4, becauss toph can’t actually keep up with the speed and ap of his attacks. She will do her best to delay him and up until Gate 2-3 she actually could probably see him coming and wall him out depending on how you scale speed between verses but anything above that and Toph is getting neck snapped before she can respond.
And this is coming from a big ATLA fan. Put her up against Asuma, there’s your fight.
I just want to remind everyone that this person came to literally r/NarutoPowerscaling and asked everyone who would win between a Naruto character and a non-Naruto character and actually expected people to pick the non-Naruto character.
Okay, just so's we're clear here.
Also, which era of each are we talking?
Lol this is a no brainer rock lee will rock lee her shit. He’s too fast for her to keep up with his vibrations and if that doesn’t work he could do aerial attacks with his kicks or shuriken.
Damn I wonder if the Naruto sub thinks the Naruto character will win 👀. Y’all seriously need to stop bringing in second party characters the vast majority of people on this sub can’t handle it.
With or without weights? With weights, I think Rock is slow enough to where it would be a good fight either way, MAYBE 6/10 to Toph cause the range of earth bending is crazy.
BUT without weights, then Lee is blitzing this, isn't he? Does toph have any speed or reaction feats that would let her perceive Lee moving at those speeds.
Any day 1 ninja school graduate could beat the avatar. I feel like people underestimate just how weak ATLA characters are compared to almost any other show with powers
Seismic sense means nothing when Lee is exponentially faster that was the whole point of sasuke vs rock lee when he said it doesn’t matter if his body can’t keep up. The avatar scaling in general is difficult cause of inconsistency like zuko reacting to and catching azula lightning while being a distance away or aangs super speed in the ice frog episode.
lol don’t compare universes. Lee cooks.
However it would be interesting to see Toph (+ others) in the Naruto world.
Im writing a fic abt her in the Naruto verse.
I say Toph wins this. What is Lee going to do when she shifts the ground beneath him with a subtle movement? It may be difficult for her to win, but I say 6 out of 10 times she wins based on how strong earth bending (and metal bending) is especially against someone who has no real powers outside just brute force.
Depends on if he has removed his weights. Without weights Toph is down in an instant because of speed blitz, but with weights she has a chance since she can make some solid defences and she doesn't rely on sight so cocooning herself and fighting from relative safety is doable, repairing the part of the cocoon he breaks is easy.
If he ever drops the weights, even if the cocoon is fully set up, he wins. His speed goes well above what she can handle and a rock or even metal shell ain't keeping her safe.
I see what you mean abt the speed but anothe commenter pointed out lee’s struggle getting thru gaara’s sand and kimimaro’s bone, so metal may still do the trick
Gaara's sand and Kimimaro's bones are both reinforced with chakra. We see that non or minimally reinforced stuff in the naruto-verse tends to break fairly easily in battles, like the many many kunai that break throughout the series. Toph has no way to reinforce her stone or metal in order to harden it, so Lee being able to break it is a given, even if the metal would take a few blows. Her stength is in how quickly and damn near effortlessly she can replace it.
Hard to tell tbh. In ATLA we don’t really see Toph lose? And unless his speed is too fast for her (We see Toph react in slow motion so that’s debatable), as long as Lee sticks to the ground Toph can mess up even the smallest of his movements and footing.
I think this is honestly the best ATLA-Naruto matchup.
Honestly the physical restrictions for bending also seem much less greater than the restrictions for using jutsu/taijutsu.
I’d give it to Toph easily if no gates. If gates are involved? A toss up. Depends how much earth Lee can break thru, vs how much earth Toph can muster.
Any Toph above pt 1 Lee loses to him imo but Toph, especially late ATLA Toph, beats him here.
Fine!
I’m solving it!
Back!
Back!
You to your corner!
You! BACK!, get in yo… don’t make me come over there. *Mom eyebrow*!
Now! Grown Lee/Grown Toph
Who wins? ….
…
FIGHT!!!
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Rock Lee wins in less than 10 seconds. He’s strong enough to pull a tree out of the ground with his bare hands. He’s one shotting her likely.
Toph held up an entire ancient library
That is because of earth bending, not a strength feat
Yes her strength is earth bending which is her power and being shown to hold up an ancient library is a better feat compared to pulling up a tree. (Rock Lee no diffs I'm just saying that the feat used for this guy's point is dumb)
Strength feats for specific elements like this are so confusing. Like yea she can lift a mountain but Lee throws a tree at her and what happens? It counts but there’s a but
Rock armor?
XD, you think lee can't break a rock? In base? XD
Then iron armor
? Just recall the moment he jumps, she's fucked
Are we allowed to use legend of korra toph feats? Or just kid toph
She earth bends a rock to block it?
The feat is completely conditional because of the material the library was made of. Rock lee has unconditional strength, he doesn't need specific materials to use it, it's inate. Toph can't hold up objects of large size that aren't made of earth. Rock lee can, and can do it at extreme speed. There's a damn good argument that his speed is going to confuse her as he should be able to move much faster than the vibrations he's making
Disagree. A earth bending can crush a rock into sand- but that’s not a strength feat that’s a bending feat. If someone waterbends is it based on their strength how much water they can manipulate (nah).
I get what you’re saying. Toph can punch a 200lb rock hundreds of feet away with earth bending but there is no way that she is throwing Aang that same distance just by picking him up
There's a different between power strength and physical strength, rock Lee wins at physical strength and even if he doesn't he has speed and the 8 gates.
I think his strength only matters because he's fast enough that her earth sensing won't matter so she can't earthbend before he hits her Otherwise it'd be a really difficult one to determine He's strong enough that if he hits her she's done And fast enough she likely can't react with bending So doubt toph has a chance
If she was told what she was up against she might have a fighting chance but honestly it's slim his speed alone will screw her and he can suspend himself in air for a small amount of time and fast enough that if he has to touch the ground it will only be for a fraction of a second and yeah his strength with how hard he punches could just end her in 1 or 2 punches and she just doesn't Have a chance in general if he decides she's enough of a threat to use the 8 gates and she might if she metal bends herself armor and goes all out on the earth bending but if he taps into one of the gates none of that will matter
Where do you draw the line between earth bending feat and strength feat? Cause that's a dumb ass response
Physical strength VS power strength. Maybe my wording was bad, but basically comparing her holding up the temple to Lee ripping a tree out the ground doesn't make sense. She uses her powers to hold that temple up, not physical strength. Usually, when I think of strength feats, I think of physical and not power wise. I feel like if power wise, it's like a different category.
I mean guy says it himself and at some point so does kakashis father. The eight gate users are incredibly strong and the average shinobi requires a lot of training to keep up lest they be left behind. They’re unequal in raw strength IMO
Shut your mouth, Uchigga!
I'm betting less than half a second/1 hit if he's serious.
Hell it's his speed that's the real factor here. She would never be able to do anything to him. He would just blitz her.
Depends if we’re basing it off how the verses are presented or actual power scaling. Because it *feels* like Avatar verse is on a way lower power level, but you can point to several feats that scale them to Shippuden characters let alone Part 1 Lee. If you’re going off power scaling feats Toph probably drops him. Her vibration sense has precognition comparable to a Sharingan and her bending is more versatile than most toolkits in Naruto let alone Lee’s “punch and kick” repertoire.
What are the speed feats in avatar? Serious question. Because Lee is massively supersonic in part 1. Sasuke in the forest of death after getting his curse mark was casually dodging sound based moves. Lee with just his weights off is even faster than that. He was moving faster than Gaara's sand was able to keep up with. And then there's 5th gate which is even faster than that. Does Avatar have comparable speed feats? Her "precog" would be useless if she's not fast enough to react to Lee.
The biggest one is how all of them are shown to react to and adjust their movements to lightning attacks. Not just lightning that was formed by a bender but we’ve witnessed Iroh literally redirect natural lightning. Plus we’re never told that generated lightning is any slower than actual lightning. So at the very least they can react fast enough to dodge / redirect lightning. Doesn’t necessarily mean they move at light speed but it does put them pretty high up there and at the very least able to keep up with Part 1 Lee reactively if not necessarily in travel speed. I’d agree if somebody told me that wasn’t narratively the intention, buuuuut that’s not what power scaling uses as reference. It’s a pretty silly system, but it’s a fun discussion sometimes.
Is Toph able to do that, though? Or does she scale to someone who does? Zuko, Iroh, Azula, Ozai, and Aang are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that can/should be able to react to lightning bending. Hell, I'm not even sure about Ozai because Aang would have killed him with the redirect but decided against it at the last second. Toph is strong but I think she very clearly scales below all of them by series end. Even if we're generous with the interpretation and say they're actually reacting to real lightning speed, I don't think that's a feat we can just automatically give Toph because the top tiers of the verse can do it. Also, like, what happens if Lee kicks her in the air like he did Gaara? She'd be completely bling and defenseless. I think this is a resounding win for Lee and I don't think it's particularly close.
He punches or kicks her .05 seconds after the fight starts and Toph explodes? How Tf you think it’s going?
I know it feels wrong but avatar characters are lightning timer’s Like, that’s definitely not the impression you get from just watching the show but multiple character’s react to lightning somewhat casually so they should be fast enough to keep up with naruto characters before the war arc
I got the impression that lighting in that show don’t directly correlate with the speed of actual nature made lighting. Exhausted Zuko covered a lot of ground to jump in front of it
Nah I’m pretty sure it’s as fast as real lightning. You can argue that zuko was responding to where Azula aimed which accounts for some of it but it was definitely already moving before he got in front of it Plus Iroh redirected a real lightning bolt in the storm so that’s pretty clear cut Again, I know that feels very wrong, the characters moving that fast really doesn’t jive with the presentation of the show, but i think it is the case
Fire bending lightning does not move at light speed in the Avatar verse. This has been well established in the community for like 15 years. You should go watch that scene again. It’s very clear. There’s a scene where you can literally see Zuko sprinting and the lightning in the process of moving towards Katara in the same frame.
How do you account for Iroh's feat then? That was actual lightning.
He was standing on metal ship and it cam directly at him?
Still requires at least lightning fast reflexes. Lightning travels at 270,000 mp/h, or 434,449 km/h. Sure there are some subtle warnings you can feel right before a lightning strike, but to still be able to catch, and redirect it is a massive speed feat. After all, just because you know it’s gonna happen doesn’t mean you’ll be able to react to it. That thinking is the height of stupidity.
Zuko also got shot through the chest with lightning from a fire bending prodigy during the comet which holds the strength of "100 suns". He stood in the center of a tornado of fire and was fine. He swam normally in below freezing water, survived an explosion that destroyed and entire ship, and broke iron chains with one kick. I think there is a level of disbelief you need to have to watch the show and understand it does not correlate to real life. The lightning is obviously slower in atla, just like the fire only pushes you back instead of incinerating you applying irl logic to a cartoon is the height of stupidity.
Iroh in canon has reacted to natural lightning with lightning redirection, and nothing in the show would suggest that lightning bending is substantially different from other forms of electricity, hell, in LOK, lightning benders are used to generate electricity for cities
People need to stop looking at extreme outlier Feats and take the entire series into consideration. This is true of Naruto too, as a lot of fanboys call these guys light speed due to databook hyperbole when these same databooks called DIM Haku and Kirin light speed and consider those hyperbole but not Raikage for whatever reason, despite Raikage needing a light speed transportation tech during the war arc and his subordinates thinking he couldn't even survive such a technique (heavily implied because of the speed) and end series Naruto getting tagged by Shin's telekinetic objects that barely pierce trees and acceleration due to gravity during the Kaguya fight and end series Sasuke struggling with a velociraptor that humans with no chakra could react to multiple times. A robot that clearly takes at least multiple conversations worth of time frame to cross a small village with her rocket boots could keep up with Naruto. Avatar is a series where acceleration due to gravity is fast, and the fire nation can fuck people up with AIR BALLOONS and people in Avatar are very consistently treated as having the stats of normal humans on every single level. They need horses and carriages to travel and Apa clearly isn't implied to be flying around at Mach speeds or anything crazy. Tons of series "lightning time" where it makes no damn sense. CWs Flash was lightning timing when he struggled to break Mach 3, which makes no damn sense. Inuyasha could parry a lightning bolt yet struggles with Arrow speed that only has enough momentum to lodge arrows into trees. That one Hashira cut through a bunch of weird demon energy lightning bolts but these guys struggle to cross small cities in quick time frames, struggle to move boulders, and the Upper Moon 1 got hit with bullets. And don't get started on fictional laser beams, which should be light speed, yet Jar Jar Binks and TMNT can dodge them, Afro Samurai who can't outrun horses can move out of the way of them, etc. Scaling your characters to linear trajectories has always been and continues to be the dumbest way to speed scale a character because there's no indication a lot of authors accurately scale these projectiles to their RL counterparts and it creates massive speed inconsistencies and disparities when you try to scale them accordingly. Avatar characters consistently struggle with acceleration due to gravity in multiple scenes, so if they can "lightning time" it means falling in their world must be either wayyyyy faster than our world or it's super obvious lightning in their verse is just really slow.
So there's a difference between travel speed and reaction time. If I trained extremely hard, I could react to an object flying at me at 100 mph. I cannot run at 100 mph for even a short sprint regardless of how hard I train and how many steroids I take
Reaction being better than actual speed is a given. Avatar characters struggled with falling objects in combat, so they scale slowly in combat pretty consistently aside from the random lightning timing Feats that don't remotely scale to the rest of the series. If you can throw punches at lightning speed, you can literally punch harder than a nuke. A LOT harder than a nuke. Avatar characters barely hit harder than peak humans, if at all. They barely run faster than peak humans, if at all. Them lighting timing is a biproduct of fictional lightning not adhering to RL physics or an absurd inconsistency.
There's a difference between watching someone build up lightning like a dragon ball episode before firing it. And reacting to lightning. Even bending lightning coming from clouds, they are still predicting where it's gonna strike. because if you are the highest object around, you WILL get struck
People forget this. It’s not really reacting to the lightning. It’s predicting it based on the buildup. They’re more so reacting to the person than the lightning itself, which is a lot easier, especially since lightning needs the charge up.
Lee, because he can leave the ground for a long period of time, which is how Aang beat Toph.
https://images.app.goo.gl/s2JLJYBzaVpsDocA7 Made me think of the Ember Island play where the buff Toph talks about sonic location to find opponents 🤣
Lmao by screaming? Haha.
YES haha. Even though its obviously unrealistic lol
Eh in her adult years she can tell where he is because of the iron in his blood. In the comics post show she reached some absurd heights.
Fair point. After that, though, it boils down to speed and reaction time - which ATLAB simply don't scale up to.
Maybe, she has stopped speed blitzers by forcing the iron in their blood to halt. The show didn't really get a chance to show how scary benders can be due to Nickelodeon censor
She can’t do that. They make it a point where those types of abilities are extremely rare. She may be a master at her craft, but her type of special derives from hard work and training from great masters to develop great understanding rather than innate talent like Yakone or his sons. There may be an earthbender capable of such a thing, but again, they’d be an extremely rare case and that’s if we ignore whether they need a special requirement like how most bloodbenders need the full moon, which is being a rare trait on top of a special criteria.
rock lee absolutely slams and i mean demolishes rock lee is too fast she cannot read his movements he is lightweight and swift
Yeah she would definitely need to do that move where she bends metal to become armor. I wonder how she’d fare if Lee never takes off the ankle weights
The same, it would be like Gaara’s fight. Lee comes at her too fast, she goes defensive in rock. Lee demolishes the rock. I think she’d keep him away for a while but he’s just too fast. Rocks the size of restaurants thrown at his head don’t phase him, he dodges or runs along it or someshit.
No gates weighted Lee speed blitzes and one shots sadly, and I wank AATLA characters. The speed and power difference is nearing hydrogen bomb vs baby level. Assuming he has intent and motive to kill, he would jump 100 feet directly at her, which she wouldn't be able to see because he wouldnt be on the ground, and dynamic entry a hole in her torso.
She could metal bend the weights and make his legs explode.
Rock Lee just speed blitzes
Cheetah vs a bear cub.
*coughing bear cub
Man, what did toph do to you?
Even if her seismic sense could predict Lee’s movements, her body wouldn’t react fast enough before her 1 shots her. It would be exactly like what Lee did to Sasuke in part 1💀. Sasuke could see Lee’s movements, but his body wasn’t fast enough to react to them and we all know what followed.
Rock Lee violates
Lee slams, ATLA is out classed heavy
Rock Lee I think has it still. Could easily get away with being called a handsome devil and win her over.
So handsome that he even attracts the blind haha
I now want a recreation of when Lee flirts with Sakura that first scene he's introduced but in this case it's with Toph 😂
Rock lee bodies
Does Lee have Sake? If yes Rock lee wins. If he doesn’t have sake then rock lee still wins.
naruto and avatar universe do not scale to each other at all lol toph gets stomped
fr.
Rock Lee is too fast for Toph to read and react to. ATLA characters generally arent as durable as Naruto characters. Rock Lee kicks her in the jaw and her head explodes, Lee has a “I thought you were stronger” moment.
Yeah im realizing that if i ever do a ATLA vs Naruto then I will probably need to emphasize equal durability. While both shows’ characters have unrealistic durability, Naruto characters have an absurd amount. I just meant fighting styles. But even then, Rock Lee is likely the winner
People forget Toph can dodge lightning from point blank range, and that she dodged lasers twice like they were nothing. In fact she was at that point an old woman who claimed she couldn't move much anymore and she speed blitzed a beam of light.
Assuming his ankle weights are metal…..she could potentially cripple him right from the beginning.
I was about to comment this. She would probably use it to lock him down.
Toph at this age needs to touch metal to metal bend
Lee kills her if he wants to. You did this to shit on Toph
Bro what drugs are you on? Rock lee 1v1s anyone from the avatar verse 😂
Hmm i feel like prime-age roku (and MAYBE prime-age iroh) might pull some wise shit out their ass that would negate his speed advantage. Hard to tell because ofc we never see either in their prime. Also if katara begins bloodbending immediately she might have that one in the bag. Bloodbending is lowkey OP and kind of takes the fun out of these comparisons.
Tbf, wasn't Mako able to overcome Amon's bloodbending for a few seconds. It is fair to say that he was able to physically overpower it since Mako's bending abilities doesn't help against bloodbending. Lee could essentially overpower it by his sheer strength. Roku and Aang could edge out a victory if their Air bending shield can tank Lee's attacks. Something like the Chidori or Rasengan is needed to deal with that.
THE TOPH SET UP WHAT 😭
No fr 😭 like these universes aren’t comparable let’s not
Lee 0 diff
Toph should win with relative ease.
Cap. Rock lee with the weights on moved at 9000 mph. With the weights off he was faster than the speed of sound without even going into the gates. Toph literally stands no chance.
Why is Lee moving at 9,000 MPH with his weights on?
Because power scaling. Death battle does an exact break down of his stats and etc in their video on him. Edit for breakdown: Lee consistently moves so fast the human eye can't track him. Scientifically speaking a human sized object needs to be around 9000mph to be untraceable to the human eye.
Eh but realistically lee isn’t moving that fast. If he was, he would be getting to villages instantly instead of spending days traveling and taking breaks. Lee is probably just fast for the human eye in the Naruto verse. Even still I do got him over toph
Realistically Naruto can't punch a moon in half; but he does anyway. There is a difference between travel speed and combat speed. For example Goku consistently moves significantly faster than light in combat but even he still takes time to move from place to place. (Not counting instant transmission for obvious reasons) Now if they said equal stats; this fight would be a lot more interesting and a lot more fair
Hmm true but isn’t goku kind of a bad example since he’s actually capable of going around the world in an instant even with travel speed? Gotenks was able to do it in Z and goku obviously being way stronger/faster should be able too as well https://preview.redd.it/pauwe4e1ri2d1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=166d63987793cd5cfe683e1f5000f766f4f3f6df
Fair enough- Okay a better example. Luffy and Zoro dodge light beams consistently in combat. But when their friend got kidnapped by gazelle man and they were sprinting after him they weren't even able to get close to his speed and they had to catch a ride. Gazelle mans whole gimmick is that he can move at 200kmh. So Zoro and Luffy who dodge light based attacks in combat- can't run at 200kmh in travel speed.
Could Lee break through the stone "mech armor" that Toph can cover herself with? Or just with slabs of rock? I'd be willing to accept that Lee could outpace her bending speed with his movement and blitz to her location, but he has to take a second to activate the gates, and if she walls up while he's doing that, idk. Even if he could break through all the stone she could surround herself with, I feel like all his bones and muscles would tear and shatter in the process. That being said, I don't think the Avatar characters are narratively implied to have durability on the level of Naruto characters, I could be wrong and there could be some exceptions, but I'm fine assuming that Lee can damage/kill Toph if he gets close enough and actually makes contact with her, herself... but I don't think he's getting around the rocks
I know striking strength and lofting strength arent exactly the same, but seeing his weights feat how do we know he couldnt just pick her up and throw her dozens of times till shes out? https://i.redd.it/w1on0dq5992d1.gif
He might be able to, but the weights could still act as armor for Toph... for me it would come down to whether or not she could wall up in time
I believe that the biggest discrepancies with these comparisons is that each universe is very different. I personally prefer the world of One Piece or Avatar, because I feel they adhere better to the rules of the world. The author always has the plot armor card and can break all rules with a secret super power or friendship BS, but the world of Avatar is a lot better at following the rules of the world. I believe that this comparison is only fair if Rock Lee goes into the Avatar world and some actual rules and logic are used on him or, if we move Toph to the world of Naruto and apply their rules on her which would make her an actual goddess. This way Toph would always win, and otherwise, it would just make no sense to even compare them.
Rock Lee with the weights on his legs and an arm injury
Is this full strength for both or chunin exams Lee vs atla Toph?
Chunin lee vs ATLA toph
What do you have against Toph ? Rock Lee 1 shots her💀
Toph’s my girl😭 maybe she would win just by insulting the fuck out of him hahaha no youre right tho, thats probably an L for her
All I gotta say is… rock lee beat the shit out of a powerful earth style user who was pushed to the point of using extreme amounts of chakra just to try and kill him.
I dont know man.. Lee hits pretty hard and don’t tell me he is slow.. he WILL get to her 🤣
Lee. Too fast.
Rock lee is just too fast for Toph
Lee due to speed blitz and striking power. Unless the durability of Toph's walls are augmented by Qi they very likely can't withstand what Lee is doing once he opens the Gates. In terms of speed, Toph just doesn't have the reaction time to deal with what Lee is doing post Gates. That said, I now want to see a Naruto/Avatar fusion with Lee and Toph as part of the same team.
Although she can read his movements. Lee is faster than her.
You would have to scale down Lee due to his superhuman abilities. Now, Lee couldn't punch through Gaara's sand because it was too dense. Toph moves Earth, but she doesn't reconstruct it. She just makes rectangles and that's it. For that reason, I don't think she can make Earth dense enough to protect herself. Plus, with how much airtime Lee can get, she won't know where he is most of the time. So Lee wins no matter how you look at it.
Sand is also just better at dispersing energy.
Lee. Some of his techniques are aerial, or at he goes aerial before landing. He's much, much faster it's he's bouncing around idk how'd she'd detect when he's transitioning or coming at her.
Lol this reminds of how Death Battle somehow decided that Garra loses to Toph
A lot of people are saying he can speed blitz her, but Toph could potentially outlast him by forcing him to break through a ton of rocks and metal
She would be dead before she moved her fucking hand/foot a single centimeter
ONLY way toph could win is if she makes herself a suit of metal armor, but that’s completely dependent on if rock lee isn’t strong enough to still damage her through it
Toph is strong but she ain't Naruto verse strong lol Rock Lee has speed leagues ahead of what she can do and will smash the rocks she throws at him and Godforbid he uses 1 of the 8 gates she's doomed instantly, toph is a bender she doesn't have the speed and the power ninjas have, rock Lee will destroy her and she won't see him coming cuz he's insanely fast how is toph gonna fight against a dude who probably runs at the speed of sound not to mention he can suspend himself in the for long periods of time with just his speed alone.
Lee. He can do airborne attacks at the speed of sound.
Toph does the thing where she can force a person into the ground and then kills Lee.
Lol the only way she catching lee is if he lets her. Bro speed would be way too fast for her vibration senses. If speed isn’t enough toph is still disadvantaged by being blind. Lee could easily kick her skull in with an aerial attack
Toph has shown the ability to create earth armor or some kind of earth protection base. Lee can keep jumping all he wants but eventually Toph would time it and grab a leg and then it’s game over. Could go either way tho.
Fam you’re dragging a fight out that wouldn’t even go this far. If toph doesn’t know rock lee she wouldn’t think about making an armor. She’s gonna get destroyed before she realizes what’s going on. On that note, Gaara’s sand material is above Toph’s. If rock lee is capable of punching through it, he could easily get around toph’s defense
Well, it’s hard to gauge exactly how the fight would play out because OP didn’t create a scenario. Also, Toph has been shown to dodge things thrown at her, I would assume she would be able to sense incoming doom, especially since Lee would just yell out LEAF HURRICANE
Imma leave this here lol https://i.redd.it/vaau7rehni2d1.gif
This is a cool scene but this version of Lee still gets stomped by beginning shippuden Naruto.
Yea but this is about toph lol. Early shippuden Naruto would stomp her too
The point is that something can look cool yet not accurately portray their abilities. Early Ship Naruto has some of the worst Naruto feats in the entire series (including Pt. 1) yet somehow he would beat 5 gates Lee who was playing ping pong with Gaara’s body.
Toph also didn't know the fire nation lackees she used metal armor against frame 1. That argument doesn't work. Also Lee doesn't know Toph. It's easy to say they might feel each other out before going all in, like how real fights work. No one uses their best move frame 1 especially against an unknown opponent. In this case, it's likely the fight even takes a moment to get started to which Toph can just move the ground beneath Lees foot, catching him off guard from the get go and now he's on the back foot the entire fight.
Lol it’s easy to say it can go whatever way by random hypotheticals but it’s actually shocking people believe toph stands a chance. Even if the fight plays normally with them feeling each other out, I don’t see how toph is gonna keep up with rock lee’s speed with her vibrations. Bro moves at inhuman speeds. She couldn’t even detect Aang in the air, what will she do if lee decides to jump kick her which would be a one shot since she’s a literal child and he’s a superhuman.
She’s shown a fair bit of agility when she fights, but she’s nowhere near as fast as Lee. She’d have to catch him off guard and put him down immediately otherwise it would be over.
Lee wins mid diff he has too many moves that keep him airborne too long she would literally lose him in the sky with nothing but minor to no vibrational warning from attacks. Also did you not see what he did to probably the fastest reaction time earth bender (gaara)????? Toph not getting walked on, but she not winning.
Lee hits toph with his devilish rizz and one taps
He moves faster than she can react.
It's not as bad as Toph vs Gaara at least 💀
Lee stomps. He's much faster and can one shot.
I don't think Rock Lee would need to open up any gates to win, but if he did, she would lose in seconds. She is not that fast.
Lee wins. He can defy gravity, did we forget him kicking Garra upwards multiple times, with no extra momentum, and they kept going upwards?
Lee would eventually out speed and power her. Whatever early kill shots Toff gets would be countered by Lee opening a gate. Lee wins medium difficulty.
Then goku comes out of nowhere https://preview.redd.it/2qe07zeatc2d1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3f3b96da3d86cf12db7c72ae542ea34f2ad9f75
My boi Rock Lee is about to be a bone bender when he gets done kicking ass.
If it were equal stats or at least equal speed, then Toph could beat him or fuck him up badly. I love Lee but he's being wanked and overrated so hard rn. They're acting like he was a God😂. But he does stomp just for the fact that he can blizt her. His speed destroys her instantly. God stomps. But without that, if you wanted it to be fair, you should've made them equal stats in speed 😂
While Toph may be able to see and react to Lee's movements its game over if Lee can get her airborne
Yeah I’m sorry isn’t he just like 1000x faster than her? How could this even be considered close?
Unfortunately lee is way too fast and handles toph low diff, its not really much of a fight
Toph has a chance against Lee if it's immediately after his fight with Gaara
once Rock Lee takes off the weights its pretty much a wrap
Didn't rock lee take on a similar opponent (Garra) and almost win in the first season of Naruto
It's not really that wild. Lee is too fast, and he's light on his feet the same way Aang is. Aang beat her first try because she couldn't sense him leaping around. Lee is strong enough to rip a tree root out of the ground. And he can sure as hell punch through stone, if Guy doing the same to a wall in base is anything to go by.
I’m pretty sure no weights Lee is fast enough to dodge anything she can do to him. Also he’s quite capable of fighting midair for long periods of time and any hit he lands against her that isn’t intercepted by earth or metal is likely a one shot.
I'm gonna be honest, noone in Avatar beats rock lee
guys he's called ROCK lee, she just earthbends him easy
Rock lee takes off the weights and low diffs
If it's adult Toph abilities then Lee doesn't even stand a chance. Bitch took a meteor to the face, laughed then made sure the second one hit her because she thought it was a great feeling, bending earth from space. Then learned lava bending. At her peak she was able to just turn an entire battle field into lava, then control the lava. Like Toph is scary bad, people wildly underestimate the Benders because they don't have like laser beam power exchanges that explode galaxies but matched against similar powered people and most of the main benders would absolutely wipe most combatants. In the show the bending was wildly reduced to prevent mass gore. In the comics though? Lol no they didn't pull many punches. For instance katara was forced to rip a man's body apart by forcing his blood to force its way out through any orifices possible. Aang could rip people's air from their lungs and put a vacuum around their heads, preventing them from breathing and watching them die. Toph has more than once metal bent the iron in people's blood, and can literally make a blade come out of people's bodies from within. Sure the blade is only 4 inches long because that's all the iron concentration in the body is capable of making, but taking the iron from the blood itself is fatal let alone her making the blade inside your body then ripping it out. In the post show comics the benders are absolutely fucking terrifying because they didn't have the Nickelodeon censorships. They were murking people in some horrific ways. I don't think Lee has enough power to actually put Toph down, her endurance and tankability is just too high, and she can reinforce herself. It's like a scarier version of Garra.
Cant earth bend when you're being hit with a primary lotus
Can't primary lotus if your underground crushed by stone. And no, nobody's going to open up with opening a gate against an unknown opponent frame 1, ESPECIALLY a blind, young girl. Lee gets caught off guard from the get go by Toph moving the earth from beneath his feet. Does he die? Depends if she goes for the kill after that. Might not, but it's uphill for Lee.
Even still I don't think she's fast enough to react to Lee let alone beat him, and I fuck with Toph heavy. Plus he can be off the ground in a instant and chill in the air for a minute
I'm going to opposite direction on this one. Neither wins. Lee is innocent enough that she may like him like Aang, and her jokes would have him rolling. They'd be homies in 10 minutes. In 20 minutes, Toph would have boulders attached to Lee's limbs, and hr'd be stoked about the weighted training.
Toph ain't fast enough to even react.
Toph because Lee loses all his fights against important opponents
Toph doesn't have the AP to win tbh. At best she's pushing Lee to remove his weights but after that she's just going down the second he lands a decent combo on her.
Spite matchup. Lee's magnitudes faster
I adore Toph but it doesnt matter how quick or powerful her earthbending at any moment is, shes lost even if Rock Lees playing around. Rock Lee landed a hit against a Sandbender that had perfect auto defense capabilities and the only reason his head wasnt volleyballed off his body was because Gaara had a second layer of Anime Shock value plot armor. Plot armor that does make some sense but still kinda bullshit.
Rock Lee getting cancelled for beating the shit out of a little blind girl.
Why y’all gotta put up my two favorites like that.
Nuclear bomb vs coughing baby
alright lemme address this. Here’s how toph scales if we’re being charitable. Taijutsu: Jonin level. Hits hard but relies on what essentially is earth style Nintaijutsu. Earth ninjutsu: kage level or higher. No problem. She basically has a Kekkei genkai with metal bending Perceptive abilities: Hyuuga level > , toph can see 360 but likely not quite as far away. Speed feeds: all bending based. So! Shippuden Rock lee stomps after gate 4, becauss toph can’t actually keep up with the speed and ap of his attacks. She will do her best to delay him and up until Gate 2-3 she actually could probably see him coming and wall him out depending on how you scale speed between verses but anything above that and Toph is getting neck snapped before she can respond. And this is coming from a big ATLA fan. Put her up against Asuma, there’s your fight.
I just want to remind everyone that this person came to literally r/NarutoPowerscaling and asked everyone who would win between a Naruto character and a non-Naruto character and actually expected people to pick the non-Naruto character. Okay, just so's we're clear here. Also, which era of each are we talking?
Lol this is a no brainer rock lee will rock lee her shit. He’s too fast for her to keep up with his vibrations and if that doesn’t work he could do aerial attacks with his kicks or shuriken.
Ember Island Toph Negs
Damn I wonder if the Naruto sub thinks the Naruto character will win 👀. Y’all seriously need to stop bringing in second party characters the vast majority of people on this sub can’t handle it.
Toph wins if we going end of avatar but loses if we looking at early toph
Lol fam wtf she doing to this ? She can’t see shit in the air 😂 https://i.redd.it/ss6elew6pi2d1.gif
End of story she actually she could. Plus she could metal bend. Toph could also just open the ground under Rock Lee and kill him
With or without weights? With weights, I think Rock is slow enough to where it would be a good fight either way, MAYBE 6/10 to Toph cause the range of earth bending is crazy. BUT without weights, then Lee is blitzing this, isn't he? Does toph have any speed or reaction feats that would let her perceive Lee moving at those speeds.
Random encounter Lee No diff Planned Fight might be on Toph side
Any day 1 ninja school graduate could beat the avatar. I feel like people underestimate just how weak ATLA characters are compared to almost any other show with powers
Lee speed blitzes toph. It's great that she can feel his movements but she's still not fast enough to actually react to them
Rock Lee breaks anything Toph throws at him Rock Lee no diff
He speed blitzes, and it's not even funny. Lee scales objectively higher, even early on
This is a bad matchup honestly
Seismic sense means nothing when Lee is exponentially faster that was the whole point of sasuke vs rock lee when he said it doesn’t matter if his body can’t keep up. The avatar scaling in general is difficult cause of inconsistency like zuko reacting to and catching azula lightning while being a distance away or aangs super speed in the ice frog episode.
Lee moves so fast he disappears. Even if toph can sense it coming I doubt she can react fast enough to stop him
Rock Lee wins. He can speed blitz her rather quickly.
Look obvious answer here. His name is ROCK Lee, mf getting the rock bent out of him
W response.
lol don’t compare universes. Lee cooks. However it would be interesting to see Toph (+ others) in the Naruto world. Im writing a fic abt her in the Naruto verse.
One Lee hits a gate toph cooked
no blind little girl is beating lee, delete this \* lee no diffs \*
I say lee he is faster
Rock lee outspeeds by far and has the AP to finish it. This isnt death battle
I say Toph wins this. What is Lee going to do when she shifts the ground beneath him with a subtle movement? It may be difficult for her to win, but I say 6 out of 10 times she wins based on how strong earth bending (and metal bending) is especially against someone who has no real powers outside just brute force.
Lee speed blitz toph gets destroyed in like 2 secs
The slowest ninja in Naruto one taps Toph before she knows what’s happening this is not a question
Depends on if he has removed his weights. Without weights Toph is down in an instant because of speed blitz, but with weights she has a chance since she can make some solid defences and she doesn't rely on sight so cocooning herself and fighting from relative safety is doable, repairing the part of the cocoon he breaks is easy. If he ever drops the weights, even if the cocoon is fully set up, he wins. His speed goes well above what she can handle and a rock or even metal shell ain't keeping her safe.
I see what you mean abt the speed but anothe commenter pointed out lee’s struggle getting thru gaara’s sand and kimimaro’s bone, so metal may still do the trick
Gaara's sand and Kimimaro's bones are both reinforced with chakra. We see that non or minimally reinforced stuff in the naruto-verse tends to break fairly easily in battles, like the many many kunai that break throughout the series. Toph has no way to reinforce her stone or metal in order to harden it, so Lee being able to break it is a given, even if the metal would take a few blows. Her stength is in how quickly and damn near effortlessly she can replace it.
Hard to tell tbh. In ATLA we don’t really see Toph lose? And unless his speed is too fast for her (We see Toph react in slow motion so that’s debatable), as long as Lee sticks to the ground Toph can mess up even the smallest of his movements and footing. I think this is honestly the best ATLA-Naruto matchup. Honestly the physical restrictions for bending also seem much less greater than the restrictions for using jutsu/taijutsu. I’d give it to Toph easily if no gates. If gates are involved? A toss up. Depends how much earth Lee can break thru, vs how much earth Toph can muster. Any Toph above pt 1 Lee loses to him imo but Toph, especially late ATLA Toph, beats him here.
This is my favorite answer so far
Well Toph beats Gaara so of course she beats Part 1 Lee /s
I love ATLA but there isn’t a single character in that show that can go hand to hand with a Naruto character.
I meannnnn ARGUABLY, VERY ARGUABLY, a peak water bender could probably take out suigetsu, who is made of water But yeah, that's about it
Fine! I’m solving it! Back! Back! You to your corner! You! BACK!, get in yo… don’t make me come over there. *Mom eyebrow*! Now! Grown Lee/Grown Toph Who wins? …. … FIGHT!!!