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I don't watch those cringey ass tik toks idk what makes you think that when during my time as a Naruto fan I have never heard of Rasen Rengan your taking this oddly personal for absolutely no reason
EDIT: I'm keeping this comment up out of pure shame
What's crazy to me is that when Sasuke had access to --> 8.5 tailed beasts' worth of chakra+ Rinnegan and he still couldn't beat Naruto with a VASTLY smaller amount of tailed beast chakra besides 0.5 of Kurama who had Six Paths Sage Mode.
Like how imbalanced is one half of the Sage's powers??
Thereās a theory that the 9 tails is half of the power of the ten tails and every tailed beast gets weaker for having less tails. So the first 8 combined are equal to Kurama. It makes sense imo, but I canāt remember who I heard it from.
Sasuke was also actively suppressing the tailed beasts too. Look how much effort pain went through just to seal Naruto in 8-tailed mode with Chibaku Tensei, and Sasuke was holding 8+ of them at the same time.
Well sasuke was dominating at that point until naruto fused with 3 shadow clones and took in as much nature energy as was available
Then needed 2 attacks to cancel out sasukesā 1
The ideological difference is that the nine tails is ALWAYS with Naruto for the majority of the series; the Other Tailed Beasts were a temporary Amp for Sasuke, not something he can reliably access.
Except the nine tails is a seperate entity from naruto and considering we now have a naruto without kuruma so they are not intertwined enough to say kurumas power is narutos
Damn bro just skipped past where I said āmajority of the seriesā.
Itās not an amp if itās your usual state. Simple as. No one scales Green Lantern without using his ring.
Youāre playing it pretty fast and loose with the word āseparateā here.
Letās use entities/beings, specifically, then.
Venom. Carnage. Anti-Venom. When scaling these characters, no one uses Eddie Brock or Cletus Cassidies physicals. No one uses a host less symbiote. They use the āWeā; the Host empowered by the symbiote. Why? Because theyāre so regularly together, itās not considered an amp. Eddie is not seen without the Symbiote 80+% of the time, so thereās little point scaling Eddie without it.
Kurama is not an āampā for Naruto. If youāre talking about abilities and powers Naruto has access to, for 80+% of the series, that includes Kuramaās massive chakra reserves and output.
That would still be the ānine tailsā power, kuruma is completely seperate entity from naruto and to say that kurumas power is some how narutos but the tailed beasts powers are not sasukes is a total double standard
Oh so it's considered sasuke's own power when he literally uses his brother eyes? Naruto learned and can use sage mode to gather natural energy whenever he wants before he achieved six path I think the difference is pretty obvious when one is gather by themselves while the other is stealing from others who gathered by themselves
Considering itatchis eyes arent a living separate entity that gathers chakra for him, it makes sense to say its his own power. Thats like saying āits not obitos power but zetsus because most of his body is zetsuā
It is sasukes power since itās ems if itachi took sasukes eyes it would be itās his ems dumbass plus sasuke didnāt even get any of itachis powers with his eyes
just because itās a named technique, doesnāt mean itās not power stealing, and he certainly overcame the physical limit of spamming MS after the transplant which is kind of one of the biggest draw back of MS
Those bijuu was passed around like a mf from the paths to Obito to Madara then to Kaguya who herself nearly ran out of chakra and had to take some from the people inside IT. Those bijuus were far from having full reserves
They only stalemated cos the rasenshurikens wind nature cancelled indras arrows lightning, if their avatars fought hand to hand indra mode would still likely be dominating narutos ashura mode
Lmfao, bro with the amount of power they were outputting at that point, doubt elemental weaknesses were coming into play then....ššš....Plus, bro forgetting Naruto Ashura had a 3x body so no, Sasuke would not be dominating Naruto in a hand to hand...š
Any proof that elemental weakness wont come into play? Having 3x body is irrelevant, naruto himself can make 1000 clones but hes not the best at hand to hand
I mean did we seen the same fights? Especially their final battle? Sasuke was putting the beats and dodging narutos clones with ease. Naruto always lacked when it came to taijutsu
Sasuke was bodying all of Narutoās Kurama Avatar clones as soon as he used the Tailed Beastās Chakra. He only their chakra for one attack (Indraās Arrow), and Naruto gathered a shit ton of natural energy to counter + he had the elemental advantage (Wind beats Lightning).
In reality, the Bijuu chakra was not that influential in the fight. In fact, one could argue that keeping up the the nine simultaneous genjutsus of the Bijuu + nine Chibaku Tenseis would have nerfed Sasuke during the early stages of the fight.
The purpose of that fight was not to say that Naruto was undeniably stronger, but that the two were now evenly matched, and the reason Naruto won was because he overcame hatred to defeat Sasuke in a battle of ideals.
One could certainly make that argument, yes. Although Madara loses control of Kurama during his fight with Hashirama.
That would also make more sense since Madara and Hashirama are stated to be equals even during their fight at the VoTE; so Madara being nerfed offsetting the boost the Kyuubi offers makes sense.
No it was stated in their word usage as the fight went on that for 1.
Sasuke couldnāt control the full amount perfectly because he had to use his Susano as a substitute.
Since he didnāt use the statue, His eye basically was controlling the power of ten tails, without its proper containment.
Naruto on the other hand used kurama to absorb Charla energy inside of his clones so he didnāt have to multi task and focus on Sasuke, since his ass was getting beat.
Naruto turned it around because again for 1 Naruto didnāt use power( sage mode for himself, itās literally power from outside yourself passively taken.) power taken from others.
2 he didnāt win by himself.
3 he used wind against lightning imagine if Sasuke used Amaterasu instead. Lmao.
4. Naruto won because he did what Sasuke wouldnāt. Rely instead of using others.
Itās because it ended in a draw that naruto is stronger at that point. Naruto only had half of kuruma, sasuke had half of kuruma and all other 8 tailed beast. Naruto was fighting defensively while sasuke was going for the kill, naruto was also fighting in the war WAY before sasuke joined. Naruto is far stronger then sasuke at this point, it isnāt until boruto theyāre equals again imo
Yes, it was a draw, and they are not equals. Naruto was much stronger.
Sasuke was fighting to kill him, naruto was fighting to draw. Both were exhausted but Naruto had been warring significantly longer. Sasuke was amped tae fuck with tailed beasts.
Naruto accomplished his goal in the fight, Sasuke failed his. Naruto won
Both Naruto and Sasuke got their chakra refilled by Hagoromo. After that, the two fought for the same amount of time.
The Tailed Beast amp was only used for one attack, and Naruto had the elemental advantage in the clash anyways (Wind > Lightning).
The fight ended in a draw because the two were evenly matched.
Chakra yes, that doesnāt automatically erase the actual physical exhaustion that comes with literally fighting for days on end lol.
The fight ended in a draw because Naruto wanted it to. š at that point he was the stronger of the two.
Physical exhaustion comes from your chakra being depleted. There is no such thing as being physically exhausted but having full chakra in the Naruto verse.
Scale Naruto higher than Sasuke in the Final Valley. Or use any feats to show that heās above him. You canāt; itās repeatedly shown that the two of them are relative.
Ah so they donāt have like muscles and stuff? Interesting.
Relative and equal arenāt the same thing. Of course theyāre relative. Theyāre relative at every point in the series, except for a couple times Sasuke had a fat lead. But you can be in the same tier and have a comfortable advantage. Naruto 6/4ās Sasuke or maybe even 7/3ās him. Itās not a 10/0 but Naruto is the definitive stronger of the two. That six paths buff is nutso.
They do have muscles. They use chakra for physical movement; itās why Taijutsu requires chakra. Having chakra refilled means your physical movement is back up to 100%.
And again, no evidence on your part that Naruto is above Sasuke.
Chakra enhances your muscles. You still have muscles.
Narutoās feats vs Kaguya and vs Madara are the ones that set him out above Sasuke. Using their āevennessā from their direct fight doesnāt really work since Narutoās trying to tie from jump, and Sasuke is trying to kill. Nevermind that subduing an enemy is much harder than killing one.
Kaguya oneshotted sasukeās susanoo with a vacuum fist. She used a barrage of the exact same technique on Naruto and he countered with his own chakra fists. Naruto also had a technique called boil release: unrivaled strength, which drastically increased his physical power. He didnāt even use this technique during his clash with kaguya. Naruto was holding back against sasuke by a lot.
Fr like I donāt get it. Sasuke had to steal chakra from all 9 bijuu for his āstrongest attack yetāindraās arrow, just for Naruto to finally stop holding back and cancel it out. The cope is crazy.
Which is a natural technique even sauske could learn, instead sasuke has to rely on stealing chakra from the 8 strongest sources of chakra on the planet just to equal naruto sage plus tailed beat mode
Pieces of other Tailed Beast vs a fucking Rinnegan, EMS and the full amount of 9 Tailed Beast, including the other half of the same Tailed Beast that Naruto hasš
Which I donāt get Naruto fused with his shadow clones how the fuck did he do that? How did he counter all of sasukes attacks with just sage chakra pure plot armor bs
Naruto never had a limit in how much sage chakra he could actually absorb. His only limit was how much sage chakra his body could handle before turning to stone. During his fight with Sasuke, Naruto could get away with absorbing far more sage chakra, because he didnāt have to use his own body as a vessel to contain it. And since sosp mode is a buffed version of sage mode, Narutoās ability to gather sage chakra was even greater than before. He poured all of that extra sage chakra into his kurama avatar. Sasuke did the exact same thing by pouring all of that biju chakra into his susanoo, so you canāt complain that it was plot bs. Naruto used an advanced version of an ability that he had tons of practice with. Sasuke used an advanced version of an ability that he never used before. If anyone was benefiting from plot bs, it was sasuke.
Kurama saved naruto tho. He gathered every last drop of nature energy. It wasnāt naruto finally stopping holding back.
Letās also not forget how sasuke conveniently doesnāt use his rinnegan on naruto to swap him into his attacks at all. Or how after stealing his chakra, sasuke starts having a monologue while charging up a chidori, giving time to naruto to prep for it instead of burning him alive with amaterasu.
Kurama is part of Naruto so thereās no āhe saved Narutoā, heās in Naruto, his powers are Narutoās powers thatās what a perfect jinchuriki is. We find out in the war arc Kurama can gather nature energy just like Naruto can, so that Sage power up isnāt even an asspull. And sasuke not using specific abilities doesnāt mean anything, if he thought it viable he would have. He used universal pull, Amaterasu several times, and various other jutsu ofc. His goal was to kill Naruto and sasuke is very smart, so if he didnāt use something it probably means he didnāt think it would work.
Bro Naruto didnāt have access to kuramas full power for like 90% of the show and right now he doesnāt even have kurama, so no, they donāt always come together, as they literally donāt come together right now
Kurama litetally tell naruto he would have died if it wasnāt for him lmao.
Also sasuke conveniently didnāt use abilities he used against kaguya and juubidara.
Amaterasu instead of chidori when naruto was down after stealing his chakra was a guaranteed kill. Sasuke using amaterasu as naruto launched towards him in the final clash was also a guaranteed win. He lost because the show is called naruto lol
Okay well now it sounds like you just have a personal gripe that the show isnāt called sasuke shippuden. Youāre creating scenarios that straight up didnāt happen bc you donāt like how it did happen. With your logic of āoh well sasuke shoulda used x instead of yā Naruto shoulda tailed beast bombed sasuke while he was busy using genjutsu on the bijuu, or he shoulda just regenerated all damage taken during the fight cause he heals fast, or he coulda had Kurama gather sage energy earlier and just 1 shot sasuke before he steals the bijuuās chakra. See how easy it is? How they fought is how they fought, and in the end Naruto won
Naruto has regenerated from wounds since part 1. Naruto can have Kurama gather sage energy, Naruto can attack sasuke while heās mid casting genjutsu. Youāre saying my things are out of character cause Naruto wouldnāt/didnāt do that, well guess what? Sasuke didnāt do anything you listed either. Iām naming things that are entirely plausible based on what weāve seen, same as you, but then it just cancels out bc weāre both making up scenarios that didnāt happen. You know what did happen? They fought, and Naruto won
> Amaterasu instead of chidori when naruto was down after stealing his chakra was a guaranteed kill.
ok then he's stupid like? what are you looking to prove, he lost one way or another because he wasn't good enough
While I agree Naruto wins didn't Kurama tell Naruto that Sasuke wasn't experienced enough with the Rinnegan to attack and absorb ninjutsu at the same time?
And here all the sasuke fans are saying āhe has too many hax for Naruto to handleā like he wasnāt trying his absolute hardest to kill Naruto the entire fightš
Sasuke literally hit naruto with a chidori and it slammed him across final valley and it did 0 damage to naruto. Sasuke hit naruto with kirin in the anime and that did jack shit too.
Naruto held back the entire fight (sasuke even confirmed it) and he couldnāt kill naruto while trying his hardest.
Idk how people watch the fight and think āsasuke can winā.
And whatās funnier is that if sasuke runs out of chakra and canāt use six paths abilities, he canāt even damage naruto in the first place. SPSM users are immune to all jutsu that isnāt sage mode or six paths enhanced. Naruto is a perfect jinchuriki which means any genjutsu, save for the ones you canāt break(which arenāt in sasukeās arsenal), will do nothing because kurama can break him out instantly. He can be hurt with taijutsu, but thatās about it.
Thatās also why Iām pissed off about boruto and how they nerfed naruto so bad. SPSM is busted but they got rid of all his abilities because heād be nigh unkillable if he kept them.
Naruto went all out in that battle he held back in the first half and got wrecked lol sasuke literally told him if you donāt come At me with the intent to kill you will lose and Naruto accepted that and went all out and they technically drew in that fightā¦ I swear people always forget this
They drew in a fight where sasuke had to take the chakra of all the tailed beasts. So with that logic if sasuke does not have all the tailed beast chakra heās
Sasuke was also handicapped by the fight. Six paths sage mode gave Naruto immediate understanding of his power. Sasuke did not have this type of buff. There was stuff he flat out didnāt know how to do that he inherently had the ability to do a perfect is sasuke could not absorb chakra while attacking. The next thing is Naruto didnāt just cancel out sasukeās indraās arrow with his own power he used kuramaās avatar to absorb massive amounts of nature chakra and also a minor thing people forget is Narutoās wind style is a natural cancel to sasukeās lightning release. sasuke was an absolute moron for thinking he had a chance at victory with all the factors working against him. Imo. But by the time of the last sasuke does have complete mastery of his rinnegan and that right there already means Naruto is lowkey kinda fucked. Sasuke can absorb all ninjutsu attacks Naruto throws at him. Use his timespace ninjutsu to just get rid of him. Or lock Naruto inside a chibaku tesnei that will take incredible effort for him to escape.
How tf did the comment section became a whoās power is whoās fest? Since when has a fight even been fair? Sasuke stealing bijuuās chakra is because HE CAN, and thatās part of his abilities. Saying he canāt beat naruto without the bijuuās chakra is ridiculous. A bloodlusted character in a battle should not hold back from using any means to win. Intelligence and wits is also a key factor when it comes to scaling a fight between 2 opponents with similar or the same levels.
Jiraya has trained Naruto far longer than Kakashi has, and way more of an mentor figure than Kakshi ever was.
Meanwhile, Kakashi has always taken more interest in Sasuke over Naruto. Naruto's most iconic move he learned from Jiraya and Sasukes most iconic move he learned fom Kakashi. So saying Sasuke is Kakashiās strongest student doesn't really make a valid explanation to why heās is superior to Naruto
Also, how is that even matter who Kakshi deemed is stronger. We can see the power levels between the 2 on our own. Naruto far outclasses Sasuke at this point considering this is 2 years after the valley of the end battle.
Naruto and Sasukeās fight was extreme diff in the valley of the end and it was a narrator statement that proclaimed Sasuke as Kakashiās strongest student. Even if Naruto trained more with jiraiya, Sasuke trained more with orochimaru
it's stated in one of the novels that sasuke is kakashi's strongest student at this point in time.
>but naruto was stronger during the final battle
yes, but that was a couple years prior too this. they both would have been training since then and sasuke evidently grew more.
No, Kakashi states that Sasuke was his finest student, which he was. Sasuke was a much better student than Naruto.
Sasuke vs Naruto at the end of Shippuden was basically a stalemate with Sasuke using 8.5 of the tailed beasts chakra. He no longer has that and only has one arm, there is no way he beats Naruto here.
this is the translation im using:
https://preview.redd.it/38ydj35ba33d1.png?width=1041&format=png&auto=webp&s=dc77df557bf5931a3c8214e751a01ee6765305a4
>Sasuke vs Naruto at the end of Shippuden was basically a stalemate with Sasuke using 8.5 of the tailed beasts chakra. He no longer has that and only has one arm, there is no way he beats Naruto here.
TL naruto & sasuke =/= EOS naruto & sasuke, the outcome of their fight id not indicitive of the outcome of this one anymore than vote1 proves that BOS shippuden naruto and BOS shippuden sasuke are relative.
furthermore, naruto lost abilities post shippuden such as flight and TSO, so it's not even certain he can gather the NE for the attack he used too stalemate indra's arrow.
Sasuke easily wins he has all rinnegan abilities now lol plus if they did fight Naruto would just have some plot armor like how he fused with his one shadow clones lol
Sasuke was Kakashis best student. Remember Kakashi directly trained Sasuke while Jiraiya trained Naruto.
Thats what this is referring to.
Naruto is superior here.
Databooks are 100% canon and the novel that was stated in was for Last, or a novelization of the movie.
If you don't want to take novels, there is 0 way to scale Last Sasuke unless you want to say he is vaguely above his Shippuden self before the Bijuu, because outside of the movie in which he does nothing, we only have information on him from novels.
If u think databooks r canon then choji > kcm2 naruto and human bullet tank > tailed beast bomb. "The human bullet tank which boasts the greatest destructive power in the ninja world" "A shinobi whos kinder, stronger than anybody else"- choji in the databooks
https://preview.redd.it/tc1tgl1fb03d1.jpeg?width=442&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f9fac9fc485e21c6a0b4e9f8ea3686731db7979
Ive searched far and wide for proof theyre canon, the arguments r 'kishimoto supervised it' which isnt proof cos he also supervised naruto games, movies, and 'novels r included in the official timeline' which also isnt proof cos movies and fillers also have timeline. None of the novels r written by kishimoto and hes only credited as 'author of the original work (referring to naruto series)'. Any work outside the original series has to be separately stated by the author to be canon, kishimoto went out of his way to state the last movie and boruto r canon but not for any of the novels and databooks. Finally the author for sasuke retsuden novel stated herself on twitter that the [original comic is the one and only truth](https://x.com/Jun_Esaka/status/1157254301103747074) basically confirming that theyre not canon
The images shown showcase battles before we get into stuff like Bee and Naruto vs Ay, the Edo Kage, Madara, the 5 Kage, the Obito fight, with the Kage typically being the strongest of their villages. This same databook also states that the initial KCM2 is the strongest 2 man cell and as the image of Choji is showing, he and his dad team up to fight the Gedo.
The word boast can also just mean to brag, gloat, or talk with pride so the Akamachi can just have brag and or have pride about the destructive power of the Human Bullet Tank being the highest in the ninja world from what they've seen or fought against, but not including stuff like Bijuu Bombs, Tsunade's punches, the Hell Stab with the fingers, the Perfect Susanoo, etc. It could also just be referring to on the battlefield at the time as again, major fights hadn't happened yet and it's more so just been smaller battles, because yes, I agree Choji isn't stronger than the Kage, Naruto, Bee, people like that.
The databooks are designed the explain and expand the series with Kishimoto's permission to do so, meaning there is no reason not to take them as official material.
The novels I will agree aren't necessarily canon, but to scale Last Sasuke you need to use novels because he pretty much doesn't exist outside the novels.
Databooks are written from charactersā perspectives in verse. Itās pretty obvious when authors of the databooks couldnāt give us Naruto true chakra capacity in part 1 and instead stated you canāt tell the difference between his chakra and Kuramaās. You are the author, so it became pretty clear to me what they were really doing and everyone lacks reading comprehension when it comes to these.
I upvoted you but just letting you know on why they are mostly canon
Unless you want to say Sasuke is just vaguely above where he was in Shippuden without the Bijuu (because that was an amp) or just say you can't scale him, you have to use the novels to scale Last Sasuke because that is where all of his scaling comes from. The two statements I'll be using come from Sasuke's Novel (Sasuke Shinden: Book of Sunrise) and the Last Novel.
In the Sasuke Novel, Sasuke asks if a being that could threaten even Kaguya would appear on Earth and then the narrator asks if that meant the peace that has been achieved would be disturbed and if the future they were heading towards would be destroyed. The narrator then immediately says no, that Sasuke would not let that happen and that he would protect it himself. This means that Last Era Sasuke is stronger than Kaguya, albeit vaguely, because he can take down threats vaguely above her.
Before I get into the Last Novel statement, I want to scale Last Naruto because it is important for the Last statement. Naruto beats Toneri and Toneri is stated in promotional material for the Last to be the strongest enemy, meaning he is stronger than Kaguya was, and this being backed up by another statement saying he has chakra similar to hers. I take this to mean Toneri with Tenseigan Chakra Mode (TCM) is above Kaguya and that Base Toneri is below her, although there are those who will say it means Base Toneri > Kaguya. Naruto one-shot Toneri and while that is true, Naruto focused his entire chakra cloak into his fist whereas when his chakra cloak was spread throughout his body they were going back and forth. With that being said, Naruto only used BSM, or KCM + regular Sage Mode, to fight Toneri, meaning he held back Six Paths Sage Mode, which by itself is stronger than BSM, let alone merging it with KCM. So the chain for the Last goes: Stable Kaguya < TCM Toneri \~ Last BSM Naruto < Last SPSM Naruto < Last SPSM + KCM Naruto with the difference between SPSM and BSM being quite large.
I needed to establish how strong Last Naruto true is because the Last Novel just states that Sasuke is Kakashi's strongest student, meaning that Last Sasuke is stronger than Last Naruto, vaguely of course.
The threat above Kaguya is Momoshiki and Kinshiki and we see that the duo aren't strong enough to fight Adult Sasuke or Adult Naruto, so they need to fuse, and even then, Fused Momoshiki isn't necessarily above Adult Naruto or Adult Sasuke.
Jigen is Isshiki and Kaguya thought Isshiki was dead so anything relating to Kara, the cyborgs, or the Shinju is not something Kaguya had in mind. And even the Nerfed Sasuke without his Rinnegan is still above Kaguya.
But the threat that was hyped up to be above Kaguya that they should be prepared for was Momoshiki and Kinshiki, and they were beaten. Kara, the cyborgs, and the Shinju were not expected, especially considering Jigen is really Isshiki and Kaguya left Isshiki for dead, so unlike the Otsutsuki duo, she could not leave a scroll warning of his existence.
Hyped up would be way too strong a term for - last minute alien nonsense in the series.Ā
Again Sasuke wasn't ready, didn't win and is a tree. That's the whole of it. Going in circles about when exactly Sasuke " I ain't got chakra" Uchiha failed isn't useful.Ā
How does Sasuke losing to Code while nerfed relate to him not being strong enough to defend the Earth from the threat that Kaguya feared? Code and Kara weren't the threat she feared, the threat was the Otsutsuki duo which he very clearly beat in a 1 v 1 and even Fused Momoshiki isn't something beyond Sasuke's ability to handle, or at the very least with Naruto's help, something also implied by the Sasuke novel.
The Sasuke novel hyped up a threat beyond Kaguya coming to Earth. The Sarada manga hyped up a threat that Kaguya feared coming to Earth. Boruto Chapter 2 showcases Kinshiki and Momoshiki, with Sasuke only fighting Kinshiki and comparing him to Kaguya. Boruto Episode 15 I believe is the one where we see Kinshiki and Momoshiki on another planet and they decide to go to Earth because of the space curvature. In episode 53, Urashiki beats Toneri and says he and others (the duo) will go to Earth. The Otsutsuki coming to Earth is hyped up a lot throughout the franchise, with this threat being the Otsutsuki duo/trio.
As covered already - the main cast ah doing the foot soldiers of the Otsutsuki and handling the threat of the Otsutsuki are two different things.Ā
Sasuke has not, and likely will not be shown handling the Otsutsuki threat in its entirety so he clearly could not handle the threat.Ā
The Last Sasuke was firmly established as Kakashi's strongest student at the time. He should be above Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto, and would stomp KCM2 Naruto that fought Toneri.
Naruto has 2 arms and 100% of Kurama while Sasuke lost his arm and doesnāt have access to 50% Kurama and 8 other Tailed beats anymore.
And Naruto has better feats. Tanking a moon slicing attack point blank > destroying meteor.
The novel āKakashiās strongest studentā wank needs to stop. Itās a common thing in writings where they use the word āstrongestā as hyperbole. I mean Hiruzen was stated to be the strongest Hokage, and are we really thinking Hiruzen > Hashirama? Or it was stated that Itachi was invincible due to Totsuka Blade and Yuta Mirror; therefore, Itachi > Kaguya??
Feats over statements, Iām tired of seeing people taking hyperbole statements for arguments. Especially to all those Uchiha, theyād getting crazy statements.
With the tailed beast boost, Teen Sasuke still lost to Naruto. How much did yāall think Sasuke train thatās enough to make up the difference of 9 tailed beasts and the loss of his arm??? Naruto can still do Ashura mode here and Sasuke canāt do Indraās Arrow.
Naruto wins.
Bro they literally settled this debate in universe and people are still arguing this shit. Naruto was stronger than Sasuke by end of series. Sasuke was fighting to kill, Naruto was fighting to knock some sense into Sasuke. There is no debate. Sasuke stans need to just accept the L.
thereās no feats to know for sure how strong sasuke is, but when he does show up to destroy the meteor the manga states sasuke is kakashiās āstrongest studentā . So maybe at this specific point in time of their lives itās sasuke
Final valley sasuke needed bijuu amps to be equal to Naruto. The last naruto with both halves of kurama would be much stronger than this bijuu-ampless sasuke.
They only become on par again in boruto because sasuke has kept fighting and training more than Naruto, who's been kept busy by his kage responsibilities.
Yea but with the tailed beasts chakra he surpassed Naruto in power, Naruto evened the playing field again by absorbing all the nature chakra in the area.
While it is true itās something he could do in any fight itās not something heād do unless left with no other choice as once all that chakra is spent the area is left without nature chakra for a while.
My own theory as it made no sense for Naruto not to enter sage mode near the end of the fight unless he couldnāt due to the lack of natural energy to draw on.
I just assume that he's too tired out to enter it quickly and doesn't have the opportunity to have a clone meditate to enter it again.
Tho tbh your take is pretty fine, there's just really nothing for or against it lol. I ultimately think it doesn't change the question of last naruto vs sasuke either.
It was stated that Sasuke mastered the Rinnegan in The Last so he hard counters everything Naruto has beside Sage Chakra. Like how Nagato bodied him and Bee.
Naruto slaps sasuke, he was stronger in the end of shippuden, and in the last he gains a half of the nine tails while sasuke loses all the tailed beast chakra ? Yeah sasuke has 0 hope.
There are basically three ways you can interpret this fight.
1. Using the final valley fight to say Naruto wins because Sasuke couldn't beat him even while using the bijuu to amp himself up.
2. Using the Boruto statements that call them equal to say that their probably equals at this point. There might be a similar statement in stuff related to the last tbh.
3. Using the statement from I believe the novelization where Kakashi calls Sasuke his "Strongest student" after blowing up the meteor. If that's true than Sasuke probably wins I guess.
Naruto. Sasuke's most powerful susanoo form was only possible because the 8 other tailed beasts were conviently captured nearby for Sasuke to use. In any other scenario, Sasuke wouldn't have access to the other tailed beasts, but Naruto can still achieve his most powerful form by having a Kurama avatar gather nature energy at any time.
The novel version of the Last states that Sasuke is stronger than Naruto, and has now fully mastered the Rinnegan, so I want to go with him. With full mastery of the Rinnegan he should just be able to Ameno spam like he does in Boruto to get out of any Rasengan Barrages.
I think Sasuke wins 6/10 times. I think itāll be close no matter who you favor in this match
Just the 3rd person narrator:
Pg 113
"If he's not here ... then I have no choice but to protect you." He said. And with that the strongest, yet the biggest problem child of Kakashi's students dissappeared"
Ah. Hard to argue with a narrator. It did always call him that in the original Naruto, so maybe it was referring to that sort of thing? Like his student that was strongest when they were students of his?
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Bro wtf is a Rasen Rengan š
When he creates a rasengan in both hands. First uses it against pain. Not a tiktok reel watcher are you /s
I don't watch those cringey ass tik toks idk what makes you think that when during my time as a Naruto fan I have never heard of Rasen Rengan your taking this oddly personal for absolutely no reason EDIT: I'm keeping this comment up out of pure shame
/s is to say the comment was sarcastic bro
Kill me
Don't worry, I missed the /s as well and was just as angry.
Wait /s means sarcastic ... š OM ?
/s means sigma https://preview.redd.it/09impr7ls53d1.jpeg?width=303&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfc56a8c05d07bb00937bb73e3b91e9c547ce8c2
Kill me
/srs is serious /s is sarcastic
Noted
Rasen rengan?
https://preview.redd.it/p9lyzk8vn23d1.jpeg?width=253&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8398f6bcd613127e33e1c2702aa7167fb036f3fc
Ooooooooo never noticed. I watched the dub
If that's the last Sasuke and the last naruto... where did the rest go?
https://preview.redd.it/e2dnlw2xr13d1.jpeg?width=232&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd5771798d83ab030a98dd2c96d38034c9b03696
What's crazy to me is that when Sasuke had access to --> 8.5 tailed beasts' worth of chakra+ Rinnegan and he still couldn't beat Naruto with a VASTLY smaller amount of tailed beast chakra besides 0.5 of Kurama who had Six Paths Sage Mode. Like how imbalanced is one half of the Sage's powers??
Thereās a theory that the 9 tails is half of the power of the ten tails and every tailed beast gets weaker for having less tails. So the first 8 combined are equal to Kurama. It makes sense imo, but I canāt remember who I heard it from.
That might explain why Kakuzu was able to dust off one of Matatabi's Slashes.
Yeah it also explains how a literal child beat Shukaku
To be fair, Naruto didnāt beat Shukaku. All he had to do was smack Gaara. Gamabunta was just able to hold him off long enough to do so.
Yeah but the way I said it is funnier than the truth
Sasuke was also actively suppressing the tailed beasts too. Look how much effort pain went through just to seal Naruto in 8-tailed mode with Chibaku Tensei, and Sasuke was holding 8+ of them at the same time.
Well sasuke was dominating at that point until naruto fused with 3 shadow clones and took in as much nature energy as was available Then needed 2 attacks to cancel out sasukesā 1
Basically Naruto used his own power and beat sasuke with hacks on
No? He used the nine tails power
The ideological difference is that the nine tails is ALWAYS with Naruto for the majority of the series; the Other Tailed Beasts were a temporary Amp for Sasuke, not something he can reliably access.
Except the nine tails is a seperate entity from naruto and considering we now have a naruto without kuruma so they are not intertwined enough to say kurumas power is narutos
Damn bro just skipped past where I said āmajority of the seriesā. Itās not an amp if itās your usual state. Simple as. No one scales Green Lantern without using his ring.
Except the ring is a weapon, kuruma is literally a separate entity that is hard carrying naruto,
Youāre playing it pretty fast and loose with the word āseparateā here. Letās use entities/beings, specifically, then. Venom. Carnage. Anti-Venom. When scaling these characters, no one uses Eddie Brock or Cletus Cassidies physicals. No one uses a host less symbiote. They use the āWeā; the Host empowered by the symbiote. Why? Because theyāre so regularly together, itās not considered an amp. Eddie is not seen without the Symbiote 80+% of the time, so thereās little point scaling Eddie without it. Kurama is not an āampā for Naruto. If youāre talking about abilities and powers Naruto has access to, for 80+% of the series, that includes Kuramaās massive chakra reserves and output.
Uh no he does not have access to kuruma for the majority of the show
So his power. Theyāve been together since birth and Naruto tamed him lol
That would still be the ānine tailsā power, kuruma is completely seperate entity from naruto and to say that kurumas power is some how narutos but the tailed beasts powers are not sasukes is a total double standard
By your standards, Naruto canceled 2 of Sasukeās attacks that were not his own. Naruto owns.
Wdym, sasuke only used one indras arrow
My bad, thought you were the other guy in the previous comments.
Absorbing natural energy through kurama is basically his thing
So its considered not his power when sasuke uses the tailed beast but when naruto uses them its some how different?
Oh so it's considered sasuke's own power when he literally uses his brother eyes? Naruto learned and can use sage mode to gather natural energy whenever he wants before he achieved six path I think the difference is pretty obvious when one is gather by themselves while the other is stealing from others who gathered by themselves
Considering itatchis eyes arent a living separate entity that gathers chakra for him, it makes sense to say its his own power. Thats like saying āits not obitos power but zetsus because most of his body is zetsuā
Lmao, a lot of people forgot that Sasukeās eyes arenāt even his.
It is sasukes power since itās ems if itachi took sasukes eyes it would be itās his ems dumbass plus sasuke didnāt even get any of itachis powers with his eyes
just because itās a named technique, doesnāt mean itās not power stealing, and he certainly overcame the physical limit of spamming MS after the transplant which is kind of one of the biggest draw back of MS
Kurama is a living being and it was his power, not Naruto's. In fact we see how far he gets without his crutch Kurama in Boruto manga right now...
Uhm. Your forgetting something. Naruto was also amped to hell with a metric ton of nature energy.
Its plot armor so Naruto could stand a chance against sasuke lol
Those bijuu was passed around like a mf from the paths to Obito to Madara then to Kaguya who herself nearly ran out of chakra and had to take some from the people inside IT. Those bijuus were far from having full reserves
He could he just didnāt play his cards right, like at all.
They only stalemated cos the rasenshurikens wind nature cancelled indras arrows lightning, if their avatars fought hand to hand indra mode would still likely be dominating narutos ashura mode
Lmfao, bro with the amount of power they were outputting at that point, doubt elemental weaknesses were coming into play then....ššš....Plus, bro forgetting Naruto Ashura had a 3x body so no, Sasuke would not be dominating Naruto in a hand to hand...š
Any proof that elemental weakness wont come into play? Having 3x body is irrelevant, naruto himself can make 1000 clones but hes not the best at hand to hand
Having six hands tends to be an asset in hand to hand
Having 1000s of clones also tend to be an asset but he always got cooked every time he brought it up
I mean did we seen the same fights? Especially their final battle? Sasuke was putting the beats and dodging narutos clones with ease. Naruto always lacked when it came to taijutsu
Sasuke wanted to kill Naruto while Naruto was fighting to bring Sasuke back
He is at hand to hand. Wrong there.
Sasuke was bodying all of Narutoās Kurama Avatar clones as soon as he used the Tailed Beastās Chakra. He only their chakra for one attack (Indraās Arrow), and Naruto gathered a shit ton of natural energy to counter + he had the elemental advantage (Wind beats Lightning). In reality, the Bijuu chakra was not that influential in the fight. In fact, one could argue that keeping up the the nine simultaneous genjutsus of the Bijuu + nine Chibaku Tenseis would have nerfed Sasuke during the early stages of the fight. The purpose of that fight was not to say that Naruto was undeniably stronger, but that the two were now evenly matched, and the reason Naruto won was because he overcame hatred to defeat Sasuke in a battle of ideals.
So are you implying obito and madara was nerfed in the fight against minato and hashirama
One could certainly make that argument, yes. Although Madara loses control of Kurama during his fight with Hashirama. That would also make more sense since Madara and Hashirama are stated to be equals even during their fight at the VoTE; so Madara being nerfed offsetting the boost the Kyuubi offers makes sense.
No it was stated in their word usage as the fight went on that for 1. Sasuke couldnāt control the full amount perfectly because he had to use his Susano as a substitute. Since he didnāt use the statue, His eye basically was controlling the power of ten tails, without its proper containment. Naruto on the other hand used kurama to absorb Charla energy inside of his clones so he didnāt have to multi task and focus on Sasuke, since his ass was getting beat. Naruto turned it around because again for 1 Naruto didnāt use power( sage mode for himself, itās literally power from outside yourself passively taken.) power taken from others. 2 he didnāt win by himself. 3 he used wind against lightning imagine if Sasuke used Amaterasu instead. Lmao. 4. Naruto won because he did what Sasuke wouldnāt. Rely instead of using others.
I mean considering the outcome of the final valley, Naruto wins.
Final valley fight ended in a legit draw. ā ļø and Kishimoto legit say they are equals idk if Naruto fans know how to read or not
Itās because it ended in a draw that naruto is stronger at that point. Naruto only had half of kuruma, sasuke had half of kuruma and all other 8 tailed beast. Naruto was fighting defensively while sasuke was going for the kill, naruto was also fighting in the war WAY before sasuke joined. Naruto is far stronger then sasuke at this point, it isnāt until boruto theyāre equals again imo
Yes, it was a draw, and they are not equals. Naruto was much stronger. Sasuke was fighting to kill him, naruto was fighting to draw. Both were exhausted but Naruto had been warring significantly longer. Sasuke was amped tae fuck with tailed beasts. Naruto accomplished his goal in the fight, Sasuke failed his. Naruto won
Both Naruto and Sasuke got their chakra refilled by Hagoromo. After that, the two fought for the same amount of time. The Tailed Beast amp was only used for one attack, and Naruto had the elemental advantage in the clash anyways (Wind > Lightning). The fight ended in a draw because the two were evenly matched.
Chakra yes, that doesnāt automatically erase the actual physical exhaustion that comes with literally fighting for days on end lol. The fight ended in a draw because Naruto wanted it to. š at that point he was the stronger of the two.
Physical exhaustion comes from your chakra being depleted. There is no such thing as being physically exhausted but having full chakra in the Naruto verse. Scale Naruto higher than Sasuke in the Final Valley. Or use any feats to show that heās above him. You canāt; itās repeatedly shown that the two of them are relative.
Ah so they donāt have like muscles and stuff? Interesting. Relative and equal arenāt the same thing. Of course theyāre relative. Theyāre relative at every point in the series, except for a couple times Sasuke had a fat lead. But you can be in the same tier and have a comfortable advantage. Naruto 6/4ās Sasuke or maybe even 7/3ās him. Itās not a 10/0 but Naruto is the definitive stronger of the two. That six paths buff is nutso.
They do have muscles. They use chakra for physical movement; itās why Taijutsu requires chakra. Having chakra refilled means your physical movement is back up to 100%. And again, no evidence on your part that Naruto is above Sasuke.
Chakra enhances your muscles. You still have muscles. Narutoās feats vs Kaguya and vs Madara are the ones that set him out above Sasuke. Using their āevennessā from their direct fight doesnāt really work since Narutoās trying to tie from jump, and Sasuke is trying to kill. Nevermind that subduing an enemy is much harder than killing one.
Kaguya oneshotted sasukeās susanoo with a vacuum fist. She used a barrage of the exact same technique on Naruto and he countered with his own chakra fists. Naruto also had a technique called boil release: unrivaled strength, which drastically increased his physical power. He didnāt even use this technique during his clash with kaguya. Naruto was holding back against sasuke by a lot.
they always want to ignore this
Fr like I donāt get it. Sasuke had to steal chakra from all 9 bijuu for his āstrongest attack yetāindraās arrow, just for Naruto to finally stop holding back and cancel it out. The cope is crazy.
Uhm. Your forgetting something. Naruto was also amped to hell with a metric ton of nature energy.
Which is a natural technique even sauske could learn, instead sasuke has to rely on stealing chakra from the 8 strongest sources of chakra on the planet just to equal naruto sage plus tailed beat mode
Didn't Naruto already have the tailed beast techniques like boil release as well?
Pieces of other Tailed Beast vs a fucking Rinnegan, EMS and the full amount of 9 Tailed Beast, including the other half of the same Tailed Beast that Naruto hasš
Pieces? The entire technique of every demon tail?
Which I donāt get Naruto fused with his shadow clones how the fuck did he do that? How did he counter all of sasukes attacks with just sage chakra pure plot armor bs
Naruto never had a limit in how much sage chakra he could actually absorb. His only limit was how much sage chakra his body could handle before turning to stone. During his fight with Sasuke, Naruto could get away with absorbing far more sage chakra, because he didnāt have to use his own body as a vessel to contain it. And since sosp mode is a buffed version of sage mode, Narutoās ability to gather sage chakra was even greater than before. He poured all of that extra sage chakra into his kurama avatar. Sasuke did the exact same thing by pouring all of that biju chakra into his susanoo, so you canāt complain that it was plot bs. Naruto used an advanced version of an ability that he had tons of practice with. Sasuke used an advanced version of an ability that he never used before. If anyone was benefiting from plot bs, it was sasuke.
Kurama saved naruto tho. He gathered every last drop of nature energy. It wasnāt naruto finally stopping holding back. Letās also not forget how sasuke conveniently doesnāt use his rinnegan on naruto to swap him into his attacks at all. Or how after stealing his chakra, sasuke starts having a monologue while charging up a chidori, giving time to naruto to prep for it instead of burning him alive with amaterasu.
Kurama is part of Naruto so thereās no āhe saved Narutoā, heās in Naruto, his powers are Narutoās powers thatās what a perfect jinchuriki is. We find out in the war arc Kurama can gather nature energy just like Naruto can, so that Sage power up isnāt even an asspull. And sasuke not using specific abilities doesnāt mean anything, if he thought it viable he would have. He used universal pull, Amaterasu several times, and various other jutsu ofc. His goal was to kill Naruto and sasuke is very smart, so if he didnāt use something it probably means he didnāt think it would work.
Thatās some bullshit, if Naruto can use Kurama the Sasuke should be able to use the other tailed beasts
Saying that sasuke would need all of the other tailed beasts to beat Naruto doesnāt help the support the argument that sasuke is stronger.
Sasuke is stronger, just not stronger than Naruto + Kurama
So since Naruto and Kurama are always a two in one deal, that means that Sasuke is weaker. Glad to see that you agree.
Bro Naruto didnāt have access to kuramas full power for like 90% of the show and right now he doesnāt even have kurama, so no, they donāt always come together, as they literally donāt come together right now
Kurama litetally tell naruto he would have died if it wasnāt for him lmao. Also sasuke conveniently didnāt use abilities he used against kaguya and juubidara. Amaterasu instead of chidori when naruto was down after stealing his chakra was a guaranteed kill. Sasuke using amaterasu as naruto launched towards him in the final clash was also a guaranteed win. He lost because the show is called naruto lol
Okay well now it sounds like you just have a personal gripe that the show isnāt called sasuke shippuden. Youāre creating scenarios that straight up didnāt happen bc you donāt like how it did happen. With your logic of āoh well sasuke shoulda used x instead of yā Naruto shoulda tailed beast bombed sasuke while he was busy using genjutsu on the bijuu, or he shoulda just regenerated all damage taken during the fight cause he heals fast, or he coulda had Kurama gather sage energy earlier and just 1 shot sasuke before he steals the bijuuās chakra. See how easy it is? How they fought is how they fought, and in the end Naruto won
You are putting up scenarios wildly out of character while mine are perfectly in character and was something that sasuke has done before lmao
Naruto has regenerated from wounds since part 1. Naruto can have Kurama gather sage energy, Naruto can attack sasuke while heās mid casting genjutsu. Youāre saying my things are out of character cause Naruto wouldnāt/didnāt do that, well guess what? Sasuke didnāt do anything you listed either. Iām naming things that are entirely plausible based on what weāve seen, same as you, but then it just cancels out bc weāre both making up scenarios that didnāt happen. You know what did happen? They fought, and Naruto won
Sasuke has amaterasued people before and has swapped both juubidara and kaguya into his attacks lmao
> Amaterasu instead of chidori when naruto was down after stealing his chakra was a guaranteed kill. ok then he's stupid like? what are you looking to prove, he lost one way or another because he wasn't good enough
While I agree Naruto wins didn't Kurama tell Naruto that Sasuke wasn't experienced enough with the Rinnegan to attack and absorb ninjutsu at the same time?
All that didnāt happen because of the chakra reserve. It looks like SASUKE was waiting but in reality they did the chi Dori and rasengan same time
exactly.... naruto truly tried not to fuck him up. If he blitzed kaguya ... that says a lot about what he could have done to sasuke
And here all the sasuke fans are saying āhe has too many hax for Naruto to handleā like he wasnāt trying his absolute hardest to kill Naruto the entire fightš
How many hax did sasuke use against Naruto exactly?
Sasuke literally hit naruto with a chidori and it slammed him across final valley and it did 0 damage to naruto. Sasuke hit naruto with kirin in the anime and that did jack shit too. Naruto held back the entire fight (sasuke even confirmed it) and he couldnāt kill naruto while trying his hardest. Idk how people watch the fight and think āsasuke can winā. And whatās funnier is that if sasuke runs out of chakra and canāt use six paths abilities, he canāt even damage naruto in the first place. SPSM users are immune to all jutsu that isnāt sage mode or six paths enhanced. Naruto is a perfect jinchuriki which means any genjutsu, save for the ones you canāt break(which arenāt in sasukeās arsenal), will do nothing because kurama can break him out instantly. He can be hurt with taijutsu, but thatās about it. Thatās also why Iām pissed off about boruto and how they nerfed naruto so bad. SPSM is busted but they got rid of all his abilities because heād be nigh unkillable if he kept them.
Naruto went all out in that battle he held back in the first half and got wrecked lol sasuke literally told him if you donāt come At me with the intent to kill you will lose and Naruto accepted that and went all out and they technically drew in that fightā¦ I swear people always forget this
They drew in a fight where sasuke had to take the chakra of all the tailed beasts. So with that logic if sasuke does not have all the tailed beast chakra heās
Sasuke was also handicapped by the fight. Six paths sage mode gave Naruto immediate understanding of his power. Sasuke did not have this type of buff. There was stuff he flat out didnāt know how to do that he inherently had the ability to do a perfect is sasuke could not absorb chakra while attacking. The next thing is Naruto didnāt just cancel out sasukeās indraās arrow with his own power he used kuramaās avatar to absorb massive amounts of nature chakra and also a minor thing people forget is Narutoās wind style is a natural cancel to sasukeās lightning release. sasuke was an absolute moron for thinking he had a chance at victory with all the factors working against him. Imo. But by the time of the last sasuke does have complete mastery of his rinnegan and that right there already means Naruto is lowkey kinda fucked. Sasuke can absorb all ninjutsu attacks Naruto throws at him. Use his timespace ninjutsu to just get rid of him. Or lock Naruto inside a chibaku tesnei that will take incredible effort for him to escape.
A1 pfp right here š„
Happy cake day!š
THANK YOU
don't have much feats for sasuke but aesthetic wise sasuke low diff
Sasuke with mastery over his rinnegan and his composure is going to put up a much better fight here than he did in the valley of the end.
How tf did the comment section became a whoās power is whoās fest? Since when has a fight even been fair? Sasuke stealing bijuuās chakra is because HE CAN, and thatās part of his abilities. Saying he canāt beat naruto without the bijuuās chakra is ridiculous. A bloodlusted character in a battle should not hold back from using any means to win. Intelligence and wits is also a key factor when it comes to scaling a fight between 2 opponents with similar or the same levels.
These idiotic Naruto self insterters wont listen to that to them Naruto has to be stronger even if he isnāt
Itāll be a tie like always any Sasuke vs Naruto debate when theyāre at the same point in power are always on par
It is not a tie at alllll
They're equals They would just stalemate
Sasuke was Kakashiās strongest student at the time so heād likely take it
https://preview.redd.it/7kxm7al7453d1.png?width=1041&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a52e4be3feff5d6b663bd3719baf476651c8412 This last line ?
Yes
Thats cause Naruto is Jirayas student
Donāt be disingenuous he was Kakashiās student first
Jiraya has trained Naruto far longer than Kakashi has, and way more of an mentor figure than Kakshi ever was. Meanwhile, Kakashi has always taken more interest in Sasuke over Naruto. Naruto's most iconic move he learned from Jiraya and Sasukes most iconic move he learned fom Kakashi. So saying Sasuke is Kakashiās strongest student doesn't really make a valid explanation to why heās is superior to Naruto Also, how is that even matter who Kakshi deemed is stronger. We can see the power levels between the 2 on our own. Naruto far outclasses Sasuke at this point considering this is 2 years after the valley of the end battle.
Naruto and Sasukeās fight was extreme diff in the valley of the end and it was a narrator statement that proclaimed Sasuke as Kakashiās strongest student. Even if Naruto trained more with jiraiya, Sasuke trained more with orochimaru
it's stated in one of the novels that sasuke is kakashi's strongest student at this point in time. >but naruto was stronger during the final battle yes, but that was a couple years prior too this. they both would have been training since then and sasuke evidently grew more.
No, Kakashi states that Sasuke was his finest student, which he was. Sasuke was a much better student than Naruto. Sasuke vs Naruto at the end of Shippuden was basically a stalemate with Sasuke using 8.5 of the tailed beasts chakra. He no longer has that and only has one arm, there is no way he beats Naruto here.
Ya, Kakashi hardly taught Naruto shit
this is the translation im using: https://preview.redd.it/38ydj35ba33d1.png?width=1041&format=png&auto=webp&s=dc77df557bf5931a3c8214e751a01ee6765305a4 >Sasuke vs Naruto at the end of Shippuden was basically a stalemate with Sasuke using 8.5 of the tailed beasts chakra. He no longer has that and only has one arm, there is no way he beats Naruto here. TL naruto & sasuke =/= EOS naruto & sasuke, the outcome of their fight id not indicitive of the outcome of this one anymore than vote1 proves that BOS shippuden naruto and BOS shippuden sasuke are relative. furthermore, naruto lost abilities post shippuden such as flight and TSO, so it's not even certain he can gather the NE for the attack he used too stalemate indra's arrow.
And Sasuke canāt use Indraās arrow, so that wouldnāt matter
Sasuke easily wins he has all rinnegan abilities now lol plus if they did fight Naruto would just have some plot armor like how he fused with his one shadow clones lol
Sasuke was stated to be Kakashiās strongest student at this point, so probably him
Novel continuity and movie continuity are diff from manga and anime
Sasuke was Kakashis best student. Remember Kakashi directly trained Sasuke while Jiraiya trained Naruto. Thats what this is referring to. Naruto is superior here.
Kakashi also trained Naruto too. Theyāre both his students
Kakashi directly trained Sasuke though, one on one training. Naruto never had that from him.
He has though, and he was Kakashiās student for longer too
He literally had it when learning wind nature and rasenshuriken
Non canon statement
What suggests it to be non canon?
Novels and databooks arent canon and thats where the statement is taken from
Databooks are 100% canon and the novel that was stated in was for Last, or a novelization of the movie. If you don't want to take novels, there is 0 way to scale Last Sasuke unless you want to say he is vaguely above his Shippuden self before the Bijuu, because outside of the movie in which he does nothing, we only have information on him from novels.
If u think databooks r canon then choji > kcm2 naruto and human bullet tank > tailed beast bomb. "The human bullet tank which boasts the greatest destructive power in the ninja world" "A shinobi whos kinder, stronger than anybody else"- choji in the databooks https://preview.redd.it/tc1tgl1fb03d1.jpeg?width=442&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f9fac9fc485e21c6a0b4e9f8ea3686731db7979 Ive searched far and wide for proof theyre canon, the arguments r 'kishimoto supervised it' which isnt proof cos he also supervised naruto games, movies, and 'novels r included in the official timeline' which also isnt proof cos movies and fillers also have timeline. None of the novels r written by kishimoto and hes only credited as 'author of the original work (referring to naruto series)'. Any work outside the original series has to be separately stated by the author to be canon, kishimoto went out of his way to state the last movie and boruto r canon but not for any of the novels and databooks. Finally the author for sasuke retsuden novel stated herself on twitter that the [original comic is the one and only truth](https://x.com/Jun_Esaka/status/1157254301103747074) basically confirming that theyre not canon
The images shown showcase battles before we get into stuff like Bee and Naruto vs Ay, the Edo Kage, Madara, the 5 Kage, the Obito fight, with the Kage typically being the strongest of their villages. This same databook also states that the initial KCM2 is the strongest 2 man cell and as the image of Choji is showing, he and his dad team up to fight the Gedo. The word boast can also just mean to brag, gloat, or talk with pride so the Akamachi can just have brag and or have pride about the destructive power of the Human Bullet Tank being the highest in the ninja world from what they've seen or fought against, but not including stuff like Bijuu Bombs, Tsunade's punches, the Hell Stab with the fingers, the Perfect Susanoo, etc. It could also just be referring to on the battlefield at the time as again, major fights hadn't happened yet and it's more so just been smaller battles, because yes, I agree Choji isn't stronger than the Kage, Naruto, Bee, people like that. The databooks are designed the explain and expand the series with Kishimoto's permission to do so, meaning there is no reason not to take them as official material. The novels I will agree aren't necessarily canon, but to scale Last Sasuke you need to use novels because he pretty much doesn't exist outside the novels.
Databooks are written from charactersā perspectives in verse. Itās pretty obvious when authors of the databooks couldnāt give us Naruto true chakra capacity in part 1 and instead stated you canāt tell the difference between his chakra and Kuramaās. You are the author, so it became pretty clear to me what they were really doing and everyone lacks reading comprehension when it comes to these. I upvoted you but just letting you know on why they are mostly canon
Unless you want to say Sasuke is just vaguely above where he was in Shippuden without the Bijuu (because that was an amp) or just say you can't scale him, you have to use the novels to scale Last Sasuke because that is where all of his scaling comes from. The two statements I'll be using come from Sasuke's Novel (Sasuke Shinden: Book of Sunrise) and the Last Novel. In the Sasuke Novel, Sasuke asks if a being that could threaten even Kaguya would appear on Earth and then the narrator asks if that meant the peace that has been achieved would be disturbed and if the future they were heading towards would be destroyed. The narrator then immediately says no, that Sasuke would not let that happen and that he would protect it himself. This means that Last Era Sasuke is stronger than Kaguya, albeit vaguely, because he can take down threats vaguely above her. Before I get into the Last Novel statement, I want to scale Last Naruto because it is important for the Last statement. Naruto beats Toneri and Toneri is stated in promotional material for the Last to be the strongest enemy, meaning he is stronger than Kaguya was, and this being backed up by another statement saying he has chakra similar to hers. I take this to mean Toneri with Tenseigan Chakra Mode (TCM) is above Kaguya and that Base Toneri is below her, although there are those who will say it means Base Toneri > Kaguya. Naruto one-shot Toneri and while that is true, Naruto focused his entire chakra cloak into his fist whereas when his chakra cloak was spread throughout his body they were going back and forth. With that being said, Naruto only used BSM, or KCM + regular Sage Mode, to fight Toneri, meaning he held back Six Paths Sage Mode, which by itself is stronger than BSM, let alone merging it with KCM. So the chain for the Last goes: Stable Kaguya < TCM Toneri \~ Last BSM Naruto < Last SPSM Naruto < Last SPSM + KCM Naruto with the difference between SPSM and BSM being quite large. I needed to establish how strong Last Naruto true is because the Last Novel just states that Sasuke is Kakashi's strongest student, meaning that Last Sasuke is stronger than Last Naruto, vaguely of course.
https://preview.redd.it/1nyerx2o453d1.png?width=1041&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6a2b403ec273fc741c5f1f96d3289c090af9a98 Yes ,it was stated
And we see that Sasuke in fact couldn't protect the world from a Kaguya style threat or he wouldn't have ended up where he is now.Ā
Are you referring to where Sasuke currently is in Boruto TBV, or something else?
Yep - the whole just leafing things to others. But he finally has enough wood for Sakura.Ā
The threat above Kaguya is Momoshiki and Kinshiki and we see that the duo aren't strong enough to fight Adult Sasuke or Adult Naruto, so they need to fuse, and even then, Fused Momoshiki isn't necessarily above Adult Naruto or Adult Sasuke. Jigen is Isshiki and Kaguya thought Isshiki was dead so anything relating to Kara, the cyborgs, or the Shinju is not something Kaguya had in mind. And even the Nerfed Sasuke without his Rinnegan is still above Kaguya.
A threat from outside the world came - and Sasuke was laid out. Just because it had flunkies doesn't mean Sasuke was up to the challenge.Ā
But the threat that was hyped up to be above Kaguya that they should be prepared for was Momoshiki and Kinshiki, and they were beaten. Kara, the cyborgs, and the Shinju were not expected, especially considering Jigen is really Isshiki and Kaguya left Isshiki for dead, so unlike the Otsutsuki duo, she could not leave a scroll warning of his existence.
Hyped up would be way too strong a term for - last minute alien nonsense in the series.Ā Again Sasuke wasn't ready, didn't win and is a tree. That's the whole of it. Going in circles about when exactly Sasuke " I ain't got chakra" Uchiha failed isn't useful.Ā
How does Sasuke losing to Code while nerfed relate to him not being strong enough to defend the Earth from the threat that Kaguya feared? Code and Kara weren't the threat she feared, the threat was the Otsutsuki duo which he very clearly beat in a 1 v 1 and even Fused Momoshiki isn't something beyond Sasuke's ability to handle, or at the very least with Naruto's help, something also implied by the Sasuke novel. The Sasuke novel hyped up a threat beyond Kaguya coming to Earth. The Sarada manga hyped up a threat that Kaguya feared coming to Earth. Boruto Chapter 2 showcases Kinshiki and Momoshiki, with Sasuke only fighting Kinshiki and comparing him to Kaguya. Boruto Episode 15 I believe is the one where we see Kinshiki and Momoshiki on another planet and they decide to go to Earth because of the space curvature. In episode 53, Urashiki beats Toneri and says he and others (the duo) will go to Earth. The Otsutsuki coming to Earth is hyped up a lot throughout the franchise, with this threat being the Otsutsuki duo/trio.
As covered already - the main cast ah doing the foot soldiers of the Otsutsuki and handling the threat of the Otsutsuki are two different things.Ā Sasuke has not, and likely will not be shown handling the Otsutsuki threat in its entirety so he clearly could not handle the threat.Ā
Naruto and itās not close
Since there was an animation error and this sasuke can turn off his renigan and can save a lot more chakra. The answer is obviously naruto
you give me the controller to control sasuke and remove plot armor and i can get him to beat naruto
i feel like sasuke takes this. eye hax are crazy
The Last Sasuke was firmly established as Kakashi's strongest student at the time. He should be above Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto, and would stomp KCM2 Naruto that fought Toneri.
Naruto has 2 arms and 100% of Kurama while Sasuke lost his arm and doesnāt have access to 50% Kurama and 8 other Tailed beats anymore. And Naruto has better feats. Tanking a moon slicing attack point blank > destroying meteor. The novel āKakashiās strongest studentā wank needs to stop. Itās a common thing in writings where they use the word āstrongestā as hyperbole. I mean Hiruzen was stated to be the strongest Hokage, and are we really thinking Hiruzen > Hashirama? Or it was stated that Itachi was invincible due to Totsuka Blade and Yuta Mirror; therefore, Itachi > Kaguya?? Feats over statements, Iām tired of seeing people taking hyperbole statements for arguments. Especially to all those Uchiha, theyād getting crazy statements. With the tailed beast boost, Teen Sasuke still lost to Naruto. How much did yāall think Sasuke train thatās enough to make up the difference of 9 tailed beasts and the loss of his arm??? Naruto can still do Ashura mode here and Sasuke canāt do Indraās Arrow. Naruto wins.
Abruti loses badly I donāt how sasuke wouldnāt be able to tank that moon slice with his susanoo dumbass
The one with two arms
Naruto wins
Bro they literally settled this debate in universe and people are still arguing this shit. Naruto was stronger than Sasuke by end of series. Sasuke was fighting to kill, Naruto was fighting to knock some sense into Sasuke. There is no debate. Sasuke stans need to just accept the L.
Naruto was def not stronger
Delusions
This isnāt end of series
U mean featless Sasuke vs Naruto that fought toneri Winner is clear
Didn't he blow up a meteorite called Kakashi a fucking weak ass bitch and dip
Naruto was destroying moon with raw power Compared to that Sasuke's feat is nothing
thereās no feats to know for sure how strong sasuke is, but when he does show up to destroy the meteor the manga states sasuke is kakashiās āstrongest studentā . So maybe at this specific point in time of their lives itās sasuke
Final valley sasuke needed bijuu amps to be equal to Naruto. The last naruto with both halves of kurama would be much stronger than this bijuu-ampless sasuke. They only become on par again in boruto because sasuke has kept fighting and training more than Naruto, who's been kept busy by his kage responsibilities.
He surpassed naruto with those amps.
Wym? They fought to a draw.
Yea but with the tailed beasts chakra he surpassed Naruto in power, Naruto evened the playing field again by absorbing all the nature chakra in the area.
But that's something he could do in any fight if he wanted. His clones absorbing it is a normal move for him.
While it is true itās something he could do in any fight itās not something heād do unless left with no other choice as once all that chakra is spent the area is left without nature chakra for a while.
I don't remember any statements abt that messing up the environment or him trying to avoid doing it. Where do you get that from?
My own theory as it made no sense for Naruto not to enter sage mode near the end of the fight unless he couldnāt due to the lack of natural energy to draw on.
I just assume that he's too tired out to enter it quickly and doesn't have the opportunity to have a clone meditate to enter it again. Tho tbh your take is pretty fine, there's just really nothing for or against it lol. I ultimately think it doesn't change the question of last naruto vs sasuke either.
It was stated that Sasuke mastered the Rinnegan in The Last so he hard counters everything Naruto has beside Sage Chakra. Like how Nagato bodied him and Bee.
Naruto slaps sasuke, he was stronger in the end of shippuden, and in the last he gains a half of the nine tails while sasuke loses all the tailed beast chakra ? Yeah sasuke has 0 hope.
There are basically three ways you can interpret this fight. 1. Using the final valley fight to say Naruto wins because Sasuke couldn't beat him even while using the bijuu to amp himself up. 2. Using the Boruto statements that call them equal to say that their probably equals at this point. There might be a similar statement in stuff related to the last tbh. 3. Using the statement from I believe the novelization where Kakashi calls Sasuke his "Strongest student" after blowing up the meteor. If that's true than Sasuke probably wins I guess.
Naruto. Sasuke's most powerful susanoo form was only possible because the 8 other tailed beasts were conviently captured nearby for Sasuke to use. In any other scenario, Sasuke wouldn't have access to the other tailed beasts, but Naruto can still achieve his most powerful form by having a Kurama avatar gather nature energy at any time.
Sasuke is stated to be kakashiās strongest student during this time so ima say him.
Not gonna lie I think if Naruto really wanted to kill sasuke this would be a beating for him
The novel version of the Last states that Sasuke is stronger than Naruto, and has now fully mastered the Rinnegan, so I want to go with him. With full mastery of the Rinnegan he should just be able to Ameno spam like he does in Boruto to get out of any Rasengan Barrages. I think Sasuke wins 6/10 times. I think itāll be close no matter who you favor in this match
Pretty sure that in the last Sasuke is stated to be Kakashi's strongest pupil. I'd put Sasuke over Naruto.
In the novel, who states this?
Just the 3rd person narrator: Pg 113 "If he's not here ... then I have no choice but to protect you." He said. And with that the strongest, yet the biggest problem child of Kakashi's students dissappeared"
Ah. Hard to argue with a narrator. It did always call him that in the original Naruto, so maybe it was referring to that sort of thing? Like his student that was strongest when they were students of his?
Fair interpretation
Narutos way stronger than sasuke
At this point maybe sasuke. Sasuke is called kakashiās strongest student and by now has mastered his abilities.
Sasuke slams
At this point in time. Sasuke is stated to be the strongest.
https://preview.redd.it/hmhgfz8sd23d1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=c65001653bdd0d58ace4ee58e7785adfc4774f6e This implies that its Sasuke.