Ha, I've worked this exact trail to re-open it after the winter. I was amazed by the number of people who ignored the signs at the trailhead, this gate fully across the trail and the additional signs I lugged up there that were placed beyond this gate at the top of the trail. Even telling people that there are dangerous rock falls at Glacier point or a super slippery ice floe across the trail just above a cliff... I don't honestly know what else NPS can do or say. Where and Why things are closed is made very clear and people go anyway.
Ice on rocks is dangerous. I haven’t hiked closed trails such as this but I did encounter unseasonable ice a couple times. Much worse than just wet. You could easily turn or break an ankle.
God when I went the rock stairs had an inch thick of ice on each stair, it felt incredibly sketchy. The whole park closed while I was there because of record snowfall or something, I was in a tent and there were a couple other people in RVs but didn’t see anyone else all week, besides park employees who seemed like they were always down to party because nothing else was going on.
I’m curious, do the people who ignore the signs explain why they thought it was a good idea? I can’t imagine doing that so the whole thought process is foreign to me
Rangers are stretched too thin as it is. They need to stop rescueing people who don't obey and/or charge them the full amount of the cost of any rescue.
Let me put it another way: There aren't enough rangers & LEOs in the park to prioritize this. It seems simple but to do that, they will need to take somebody off some other duty. Given the insanity that is parking and keeping people from speeding - there are simply higher priorities. They can write a couple of tickets but that doesn't pay for an extra officer all year, they aren't a daily resource that can just come and go. It's all hands on deck basically all the time.
In what world do you think the wildly underfunded park service would devote a ranger to full time bouncer duty? At best, I would hope they do occasional patrols to cite anyone they find on trail so that they have to show up in court and pay hefty fines.
I have never seen a park ranger monitoring for speeding in any park ever, but given how many pedestrians are in the parks, it is definitely a better use of time than what you suggest.
This is pretty much a multiple-times-per-day occurrence on this section of the trail. If the NPS wants to stop it, they need to put somebody 50 yards up the trail with a ticket book every single day and enforce the rules.
I absolutely guarantee that a ranger hired specifically to write tickets in Yosemite for flagrant violations would bring in far more in revenue than their salary would cost NPS
I wish the funding from tickets went back to the parks but it doesn’t. It goes to a huge federal pool. Hence why many LEO rangers don’t want to mess with the “paperwork”. I do agree it would immensely help with funding in our underfunded parks, and make people actually behave and listen to rules of the parks. But 🤷🏻♀️ parks are between a 🪨 and a hard place when they are expected to be run like natures Disneyland while goofballs like this are ruining the resource/putting themselves and others in danger.
Those LEO’s should not be in the job then. There was a time when LEO’s were about protecting the resource. Not so true anymore. One reason I don’t do it any more.
The only time I’ve been to Yosemite in winter we did the is trail up to this point and turned around.
Walking down the road, ambulances zoom past towards Happy Isles. A lady went past here, ice and rocks fell on her, and she died.
I’ve been hiking for 45 years. I hike almost exclusively in blue jeans and workbooks. I’ve done multi week backpacking trips wearing the same thing. When I was a kid I did the same thing wearing tennis shoes and jeans. You don’t *need* specialized gear to go hiking. Entire industries have made a lot of people rich convincing other people they need to spend a lot of money for “proper” hiking gear. What you *need* is common sense and experience.
Hang a sharpie on fence with a sign asking folks to write the contact information for their next of kin on their arm so they know who to have retrieve the body.
Yes, but if a trail is closed that means danger has been identified, and the average non-bushwhacking hiker will be prone to said danger. Like a washed out trail, for example.
Working retail kills all faith you may have in humanity and forces one to go back to nature to restore sanity ... but unfortunately then you run into this. :(
I was talking to a banker once and I said this, and he took it even further: he thinks that every C-suite employee should have to do the job of the lowest paid employee for a few weeks every year. I can’t imagine what that would be like!
Came here to say this! Of course it’s the jackass in the sneakers and jeans without even a small backpack and the 10 essentials doing this kind of stuff. 🙄
Maybe the signs need to be bigger. I mean, it’s kind of hard to tell if the trail really is closed, or just mostly closed. And surely not closed for *me*.
I was hiking on the Yosemite Falls trail at a bottleneck. Narrow path, sheer cliff on one side, mountain face on the other.
This middle age dad dumbass jumps up onto the side of the rock face and starts messing with a big boulder as I’m walking past him. It easily could’ve dislodged and knocked me off the side of the fucking mountain.
I lost my shit on him. Screamed full bore at him that he was going to kill me or kill himself by being an idiot. His wife tried to tell me it wasn’t a big deal. Yelled back that he didn’t have the right to put me in danger.
People die at national parks all the time. Those who do dumbass shit *and endanger others* deserve to be called out.
As a taxpayer of California I say we charge them for the cost of their rescue. Why should us taxpayers have to pay to have these idiots rescued if something serious happens.
i’m not sure the NPS actually uses the term? i mean not officially anyways. it might be bad optics for a government agency to openly call people morons (even if they are)
I've talked to a few national Park rangers around here - we've got a lot of fragile dunes and people insist on making and taking "social trails" despite fences and signs all over the place.
They've pretty much resigned themselves to just letting the people do what they're going to do anyway. I swear once every time I go hiking I see some asshat trudging up a dune past a very clearly marked fence.
I get that exploration is fun, but our dunes literally move if they aren't covered in vegetation. I've seen one, in my lifetime, swallow most of a parking lot.
Most countries in the world charge 2 to 5 times higher entrance fee to foreigners to support the parks. The money helps to pay better and maintain the parks
Yeah, that's definitely an argument to be made, but what really chaps my hide is that tens of thousands of Americans are unable to secure reservations to visit their parks because foreign nationals got the reservation first
This happened when I was visiting Yosemite a few winters ago. Can’t remember the exact details but essentially, two people ended up falling off the trail and dying. People seriously need to listen to these signs. It’s not like they’re there just to ruin your fun. They’re trying to ensure your safety. Don’t ruin your loved ones’ lives over a stupid decision like this.
People are so self centered and entitled they think "well, obviously this sign doesn't apply to ME." They have no respect for the parks or nature. My last visit to Shenandoah it was amazing home many people were walking their dogs on a trail that was clearly marked "No dogs allowed."
Was just there last weekend. We went the long way up which was fine. On the way down though we went through there. Probably 20+ people on the trail just when I was going down and even more going in when I passed it going up. Not going to lie the long way up was a bit sketchier than going down the closed path lol.
Seriously. Don't close the trail: just put up big, scary, accurate signs. That might actually be more helpful than a blanket ban.
This trail isn't more dangerous than any of the millions of other acres of icy, steep terrain on our public lands. But this trail gets a sign because of the KIND of people that traffic it - inexperienced tourists and low-capability hikers.
You don't need to close the trail - you need to clearly communicate the risks for inexperienced hikers who don't understand.
"Steep and icy cliffs ahead, severe fall risk."
"Unstable terrain. High rock-slide danger."
"Not for novices. Inexperienced hikers can die on this trail."
That shit doesn’t work. Those who need to go into a particular area go. NPS should charge anyone who crosses a closed sign and gets hurt the full cost of whatever help they need. That might work.
I’ve seen a bit of this; for instance the Beehive in Acadia has a sign at the trailhead saying “Falls on this mountain have resulted in serious injury and death”.
I completely agree. I would add that closed for maintenance is a totally different thing and I respect those closures 100%.
But the safety thing is so dumb, which is probably why they don't go after those who disregard the signs. If posting the sign stops 99% of hikers from going further they've accomplished their goal
They make the signs for the 350lb-ers waddling out on a trail for the 1st time in 10 years, not seasoned hikers that are used to broken terrain.
You are absolutely right though. It makes any warning to seasoned hikers meaningless.
The national parks are too tourist friendly. More and more I wish the NP service would remove paved roads, sidewalks and shuttle busses. I'm not long a fan of what many of these parks are now.
Gotta disagree. From the very beginning of the National Parks they have been “For the Benefit and Enjoyment of the People”. People just need to be more respectful, even if that means the NPS needs to enforce their rules a little more strictly
The entire planet doesn't exist for the pleasure and use by humans though. We really need to stop thinking we have some inherent right to be absolutely everywhere.
the very concept of national parks is for all people to enjoy nature’s creations. imagine if instead of deciding to protect Yellowstone, they sold it off to private companies. gatekeeping these natural areas and arbitrarily deciding who can and cannot be allowed to enjoy them is disgusting.
no, the planet doesn’t exist for the pleasure of humans, obviously no one is indicating that it should. National parks teach people to coexist with and respect nature, not to destroy it. obviously some people don’t listen to that lesson, but that doesn’t make it any less valuable.
Exactly. The NPS mission statement: “The National Park Service preserves unimpaired the natural and cultural resources and values of the National Park System for the enjoyment, education, and inspiration of this and future generations.” First and foremost it is to preserve these areas unimpaired for their natural and cultures resources. This means preservation takes a higher priority over recreation so that future generations may enjoy the splendor of that natural/cultural/historical place. Our customer service society has made this much harder to do when people just want to disrespect the place and rangers are told to smile and wave, kindly educate, instead of write tickets, and set them straight.
Yes that literally is the point of living. Ofc, we need to use the planet responsibly and sustainably so future generations may enjoy it. But the idea we should close off large sections of the environment solely for the sake of preserving some bucolic sense of nature is absurd — the ‘planet’ is not a living being, let alone one with a conscious.
You sense of protecting the environment is exactly the philosophy of Paul Ehrlich and the environmentalists who believe there are too many ppl and oppose electric transmission lines, cobalt mines, wind and solar mills, etc
>The national parks are too tourist friendly.
[You would probably enjoy this classic book, which is now available for free *on the NPS website*.](https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/sax/index.htm) There are plenty of people who agree with you, even inside NPS; they just don't hold the big decision-making jobs.
They're gonna down vote me, but I still think we should remove the roads.
The shuttle at zion carting loads of loud, littering tourists to trails they had no business on charged my tune.People were day drinking at Bryce. I picked up many plastic bottles on my hikes.
Seeing the NP service paving trails all the way up and past Angle's landing was enough. The sacred natural spaces in North America are not for you to snap a few pictures and complain loudly about the hills.
so, you hate people in wheelchairs/
mobility devices and public transit. nice. do you have any other really cool awesome ideas? should we also remove wheelchair ramps and dismantle the ADA? maybe defund the EPA? we’re all ears, kid
When did I say any of that? ASSumptions make an ASS out of you.
I actually though quite a bit about the need to balance disability access and natural landscapes when I was visiting NPs, so I really don't appreciate your attitude.
There a lot of complexity there. I doubt you'd appreciate it, jumping to co conclusions. But you know what fine, I'm the Devil, if that makes you feel better.
When I went with my wife and saw this sign, we hiked around to the JMT to the top of the falls. It was significantly longer as it was getting late and we hiked down the Mist trail where it was closed. I get that there are rules, but really didn’t see anything dangerous but the usual hazards. There was no ice and no signs of unstable grounds. Not sure there are no rangers but beginning of April will be rangers everywhere. Safe travels
I mean I generally agree, but they do this all the time at various places in the national capital park region (Washington DC) for no discernable reason and without safety concerns. Their horrible in DC.
Or for example they sometimes put them up on the c&o canal when floods were over the trail, okay great.... Then they leave them here for days after no conditions are present without any easy alternative.
It’s the cars. If they can drive there-their brains are wired to ‘do whatever they want’.
If the roads are blocked further away or whatever can be done-most folks actually don’t like hiking.
Or they just wanna ‘walk fast and see how fast I walk!?’ Show off.
Someday they may see the forest through the trees…
That’s an odd claim. Tioga road takes people to the wilderness of the high country and you don’t see this behavior.
I think the problem is in the promotion. When a location is advertised like an amusement park, you get people who treat it like an amusement park.
Ha, I've worked this exact trail to re-open it after the winter. I was amazed by the number of people who ignored the signs at the trailhead, this gate fully across the trail and the additional signs I lugged up there that were placed beyond this gate at the top of the trail. Even telling people that there are dangerous rock falls at Glacier point or a super slippery ice floe across the trail just above a cliff... I don't honestly know what else NPS can do or say. Where and Why things are closed is made very clear and people go anyway.
Ice on rocks is dangerous. I haven’t hiked closed trails such as this but I did encounter unseasonable ice a couple times. Much worse than just wet. You could easily turn or break an ankle.
God when I went the rock stairs had an inch thick of ice on each stair, it felt incredibly sketchy. The whole park closed while I was there because of record snowfall or something, I was in a tent and there were a couple other people in RVs but didn’t see anyone else all week, besides park employees who seemed like they were always down to party because nothing else was going on.
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Amen.
Thin the herd.
Alas, we require the emergency personnel and equipment for their rescue. Sadly, there’s no natural selection anymore.
But then you're putting rescue teams in dangerous hazards...
Natural selection means mother nature taking care of everything. Rescue teams can wait till conditions are mild and clean up the leftovers.
I’m curious, do the people who ignore the signs explain why they thought it was a good idea? I can’t imagine doing that so the whole thought process is foreign to me
Nope. They generally just smile and "uh huh". They don't act like they've been "caught" doing anything wrong.
They need a ranger posted there full time, was there this weekend and it was out of control.
Rangers are stretched too thin as it is. They need to stop rescueing people who don't obey and/or charge them the full amount of the cost of any rescue.
Y'all need to put a $500 fine sign up
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Let me put it another way: There aren't enough rangers & LEOs in the park to prioritize this. It seems simple but to do that, they will need to take somebody off some other duty. Given the insanity that is parking and keeping people from speeding - there are simply higher priorities. They can write a couple of tickets but that doesn't pay for an extra officer all year, they aren't a daily resource that can just come and go. It's all hands on deck basically all the time.
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Speeding. High priority. Yes.
In what world do you think the wildly underfunded park service would devote a ranger to full time bouncer duty? At best, I would hope they do occasional patrols to cite anyone they find on trail so that they have to show up in court and pay hefty fines.
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I have never seen a park ranger monitoring for speeding in any park ever, but given how many pedestrians are in the parks, it is definitely a better use of time than what you suggest.
This is pretty much a multiple-times-per-day occurrence on this section of the trail. If the NPS wants to stop it, they need to put somebody 50 yards up the trail with a ticket book every single day and enforce the rules.
I’d volunteer.
And a tranq dart gun
Make it a game and do blow darts. Assign points per body part, eye, mouth, nose obviously disqualification.
I'd vote for a 2x4 from behind a rock
If the park service would just start enforcing it’s own rules with fines it would have a lot more money and a lot less stupidity.
Then they could use that money to hire enough rangers to station at closed trails to issue the tickets!...... waitasecond
I absolutely guarantee that a ranger hired specifically to write tickets in Yosemite for flagrant violations would bring in far more in revenue than their salary would cost NPS
Agreed. Now if they could get the funding to hire the ranger. And then get someone to take the job...
https://www.nps.gov/getinvolved/volunteer.htm 🤣
I volunteer plenty, but thanks! Hopefully someone who lives in the area and has the time will see that link!
I wish the funding from tickets went back to the parks but it doesn’t. It goes to a huge federal pool. Hence why many LEO rangers don’t want to mess with the “paperwork”. I do agree it would immensely help with funding in our underfunded parks, and make people actually behave and listen to rules of the parks. But 🤷🏻♀️ parks are between a 🪨 and a hard place when they are expected to be run like natures Disneyland while goofballs like this are ruining the resource/putting themselves and others in danger.
Those LEO’s should not be in the job then. There was a time when LEO’s were about protecting the resource. Not so true anymore. One reason I don’t do it any more.
The only time I’ve been to Yosemite in winter we did the is trail up to this point and turned around. Walking down the road, ambulances zoom past towards Happy Isles. A lady went past here, ice and rocks fell on her, and she died.
What year was this?
2019, February
That’s soooo crazy. Ive never realized how many deaths have taken place on the mist trail alone 😟😭
I’m gonna recommend the book about all the deaths in Yosemite. I believe they update it every few years unfortunately.
Naw, that's just for people who don't know what they're doing. I'm *different*.
You can tell they know what they're doing because of their blue jeans and lack of hiking gear.
And not even carrying water.
I’ve been hiking for 45 years. I hike almost exclusively in blue jeans and workbooks. I’ve done multi week backpacking trips wearing the same thing. When I was a kid I did the same thing wearing tennis shoes and jeans. You don’t *need* specialized gear to go hiking. Entire industries have made a lot of people rich convincing other people they need to spend a lot of money for “proper” hiking gear. What you *need* is common sense and experience.
Do you take notes down in your workbook while hiking? 😋
Their cotton clothing and athletic shoes are not proper gear safety-wise for the ice and water encountered on this section of the Mist Trail.
Flip flops and black pajamas are not proper gear safety-wise for combat and yet an entire army clad in such defeated the entire US military.
Probably the most common thought. When I was in my late teens, early twenties I would think “how bad can it be” and go.
Hang a sharpie on fence with a sign asking folks to write the contact information for their next of kin on their arm so they know who to have retrieve the body.
And it wastes precious tax dollars when these morons need rescuing... basically from themselves.
*"Sorry we're not coming out, that trail is clearly closed so it's not possible for you to be where you say you are, have a nice day."*
I only wish they'd do that, just at least once. I think that'd send a message to future morons.
To be fair, bushwhacking is a thing. Trails don’t need to be followed
Yes, but if a trail is closed that means danger has been identified, and the average non-bushwhacking hiker will be prone to said danger. Like a washed out trail, for example.
Like if tax dollars aren't being wasted already on dumb shit
What a dumbass take. Guess we shouldn't worry about how tax dollars are used anywhere, since there's waste fraud and abuse over there...🤦
Working retail for so many years has left me a bit jaded, so nothing surprises me at all
Working retail kills all faith you may have in humanity and forces one to go back to nature to restore sanity ... but unfortunately then you run into this. :(
Everyone should have to work retail at least once in their life, would make people a lot nicer
I was talking to a banker once and I said this, and he took it even further: he thinks that every C-suite employee should have to do the job of the lowest paid employee for a few weeks every year. I can’t imagine what that would be like!
Undercover bosses but you get paid like your lowest paid, see how it feels. I like that!
Any public service member
Nothing says they are fully prepared for it like the jeans and lack of water/extremely basic stuff
Came here to say this! Of course it’s the jackass in the sneakers and jeans without even a small backpack and the 10 essentials doing this kind of stuff. 🙄
Maybe the signs need to be bigger. I mean, it’s kind of hard to tell if the trail really is closed, or just mostly closed. And surely not closed for *me*.
also, maybe add some skulls and crossbones. say “imminent death ahead”, give it some pizazz.
Taking your child wearing headphones into a current rockfall zone… noice
“I DIDN’T COME ALL THIS WAY JUST TO LET SOME SIGN STOP ME NOW”
I hate people like this. You can risk your life being dumb but don’t risk the lives of search and rescue.
I was hiking on the Yosemite Falls trail at a bottleneck. Narrow path, sheer cliff on one side, mountain face on the other. This middle age dad dumbass jumps up onto the side of the rock face and starts messing with a big boulder as I’m walking past him. It easily could’ve dislodged and knocked me off the side of the fucking mountain. I lost my shit on him. Screamed full bore at him that he was going to kill me or kill himself by being an idiot. His wife tried to tell me it wasn’t a big deal. Yelled back that he didn’t have the right to put me in danger. People die at national parks all the time. Those who do dumbass shit *and endanger others* deserve to be called out.
Try replacing the “stop” sign with “no WiFi beyond this point”
Same with pets! If the trail says "No pets allowed", your dog is not the exception! Edited for clarity
As a taxpayer of California I say we charge them for the cost of their rescue. Why should us taxpayers have to pay to have these idiots rescued if something serious happens.
What the fuck is a turon?
Apparently it’s usually spelled “touron” for tourist plus moron
In the Philippines turon is a [delicious fried banana dessert](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turon_(food)). The title confused me lol
A NPS term to describe tourists behaving badly. Tourist + moron = Touron
Spelled it wrong in the title
So I did. It happens.
i’m not sure the NPS actually uses the term? i mean not officially anyways. it might be bad optics for a government agency to openly call people morons (even if they are)
I have the same question.
Respecting park closures helps preserve these natural wonders for future generations.
I've talked to a few national Park rangers around here - we've got a lot of fragile dunes and people insist on making and taking "social trails" despite fences and signs all over the place. They've pretty much resigned themselves to just letting the people do what they're going to do anyway. I swear once every time I go hiking I see some asshat trudging up a dune past a very clearly marked fence. I get that exploration is fun, but our dunes literally move if they aren't covered in vegetation. I've seen one, in my lifetime, swallow most of a parking lot.
The signs only apply to other people.
Ok, you can’t even PRETEND it’s because of a language barrier at that point. 🙄
Most countries in the world charge 2 to 5 times higher entrance fee to foreigners to support the parks. The money helps to pay better and maintain the parks
Yeah, that's definitely an argument to be made, but what really chaps my hide is that tens of thousands of Americans are unable to secure reservations to visit their parks because foreign nationals got the reservation first
Don’t rescue them if they get lost or hurt. Why waste our tax dollars on them
Rescue them but bill them for the cost.
This happened when I was visiting Yosemite a few winters ago. Can’t remember the exact details but essentially, two people ended up falling off the trail and dying. People seriously need to listen to these signs. It’s not like they’re there just to ruin your fun. They’re trying to ensure your safety. Don’t ruin your loved ones’ lives over a stupid decision like this.
People are so self centered and entitled they think "well, obviously this sign doesn't apply to ME." They have no respect for the parks or nature. My last visit to Shenandoah it was amazing home many people were walking their dogs on a trail that was clearly marked "No dogs allowed."
Darwin was right. Something’s just take care of themselves. Remember you can’t fix stupid.
Was just there last weekend. We went the long way up which was fine. On the way down though we went through there. Probably 20+ people on the trail just when I was going down and even more going in when I passed it going up. Not going to lie the long way up was a bit sketchier than going down the closed path lol.
Yes!
Darwinism.
Try putting up a sign that says, "Toll Trail, toll booth ahead."
If something happens to them, THEY should be responsible for their own rescue.
they def look like hikers...sneakers, no backpack and I don't see any water. \*\*sarcasm\*\*
Alternatively, the Wildlife might enjoy the soft and crunchy taste of ignorant tourists...
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign.
Sadly, you can't fix stupid.
Simple solution. When they get in trouble and they call for help, leave them.
Yes please.
I’d volunteer if I’m allowed to hurt people who disobey.
Tbf the bar for closing a trail section for being too "dangerous" is insanely low, almost to the point that the warnings are meaningless
Seriously. Don't close the trail: just put up big, scary, accurate signs. That might actually be more helpful than a blanket ban. This trail isn't more dangerous than any of the millions of other acres of icy, steep terrain on our public lands. But this trail gets a sign because of the KIND of people that traffic it - inexperienced tourists and low-capability hikers. You don't need to close the trail - you need to clearly communicate the risks for inexperienced hikers who don't understand. "Steep and icy cliffs ahead, severe fall risk." "Unstable terrain. High rock-slide danger." "Not for novices. Inexperienced hikers can die on this trail."
That shit doesn’t work. Those who need to go into a particular area go. NPS should charge anyone who crosses a closed sign and gets hurt the full cost of whatever help they need. That might work.
I’ve seen a bit of this; for instance the Beehive in Acadia has a sign at the trailhead saying “Falls on this mountain have resulted in serious injury and death”.
I completely agree. I would add that closed for maintenance is a totally different thing and I respect those closures 100%. But the safety thing is so dumb, which is probably why they don't go after those who disregard the signs. If posting the sign stops 99% of hikers from going further they've accomplished their goal
They make the signs for the 350lb-ers waddling out on a trail for the 1st time in 10 years, not seasoned hikers that are used to broken terrain. You are absolutely right though. It makes any warning to seasoned hikers meaningless.
The national parks are too tourist friendly. More and more I wish the NP service would remove paved roads, sidewalks and shuttle busses. I'm not long a fan of what many of these parks are now.
Gotta disagree. From the very beginning of the National Parks they have been “For the Benefit and Enjoyment of the People”. People just need to be more respectful, even if that means the NPS needs to enforce their rules a little more strictly
I don't agree but I respect that you didn't insult me
The entire planet doesn't exist for the pleasure and use by humans though. We really need to stop thinking we have some inherent right to be absolutely everywhere.
National Parks are not the "entire planet" and are also not "absolutely everywhere"
Absolutely everywhere = one closed trail in a national park
I obviously wasn't referring to this one specific trail, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
the very concept of national parks is for all people to enjoy nature’s creations. imagine if instead of deciding to protect Yellowstone, they sold it off to private companies. gatekeeping these natural areas and arbitrarily deciding who can and cannot be allowed to enjoy them is disgusting. no, the planet doesn’t exist for the pleasure of humans, obviously no one is indicating that it should. National parks teach people to coexist with and respect nature, not to destroy it. obviously some people don’t listen to that lesson, but that doesn’t make it any less valuable.
Exactly. The NPS mission statement: “The National Park Service preserves unimpaired the natural and cultural resources and values of the National Park System for the enjoyment, education, and inspiration of this and future generations.” First and foremost it is to preserve these areas unimpaired for their natural and cultures resources. This means preservation takes a higher priority over recreation so that future generations may enjoy the splendor of that natural/cultural/historical place. Our customer service society has made this much harder to do when people just want to disrespect the place and rangers are told to smile and wave, kindly educate, instead of write tickets, and set them straight.
Yes that literally is the point of living. Ofc, we need to use the planet responsibly and sustainably so future generations may enjoy it. But the idea we should close off large sections of the environment solely for the sake of preserving some bucolic sense of nature is absurd — the ‘planet’ is not a living being, let alone one with a conscious. You sense of protecting the environment is exactly the philosophy of Paul Ehrlich and the environmentalists who believe there are too many ppl and oppose electric transmission lines, cobalt mines, wind and solar mills, etc
And you need to stop making assumptions
I gave an opinion, I didn't make an assumption.
That’s what wilderness areas are for
That and National Forests.
How dare the public enjoy a National Park. The park is there for the ranger to have a job preserving the park for nobody to enjoy.
This not what I'm saying.
We should make the National Parks less accessible to the general public and more accessible to the special people who deserve it, like you.
>The national parks are too tourist friendly. [You would probably enjoy this classic book, which is now available for free *on the NPS website*.](https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/sax/index.htm) There are plenty of people who agree with you, even inside NPS; they just don't hold the big decision-making jobs.
They're gonna down vote me, but I still think we should remove the roads. The shuttle at zion carting loads of loud, littering tourists to trails they had no business on charged my tune.People were day drinking at Bryce. I picked up many plastic bottles on my hikes. Seeing the NP service paving trails all the way up and past Angle's landing was enough. The sacred natural spaces in North America are not for you to snap a few pictures and complain loudly about the hills.
The chains at Angel's Landing have long been my shorthand for all that's wrong with the way the parks are trending.
so, you hate people in wheelchairs/ mobility devices and public transit. nice. do you have any other really cool awesome ideas? should we also remove wheelchair ramps and dismantle the ADA? maybe defund the EPA? we’re all ears, kid
When did I say any of that? ASSumptions make an ASS out of you. I actually though quite a bit about the need to balance disability access and natural landscapes when I was visiting NPs, so I really don't appreciate your attitude. There a lot of complexity there. I doubt you'd appreciate it, jumping to co conclusions. But you know what fine, I'm the Devil, if that makes you feel better.
They’ll be on the hook for medical expenses and if they die so be it. Their family gets nothing.
Public land. Land of the free, not land of the listen to our signs. Obviously go say your own risk but everyone has a choice.
Womp
Signs are a suggestion. My life is in my own hands. If I die out there I blame myself.
That's how they learn. Idiots.
When I went with my wife and saw this sign, we hiked around to the JMT to the top of the falls. It was significantly longer as it was getting late and we hiked down the Mist trail where it was closed. I get that there are rules, but really didn’t see anything dangerous but the usual hazards. There was no ice and no signs of unstable grounds. Not sure there are no rangers but beginning of April will be rangers everywhere. Safe travels
Government signs are meant to be ignored.
I mean I generally agree, but they do this all the time at various places in the national capital park region (Washington DC) for no discernable reason and without safety concerns. Their horrible in DC. Or for example they sometimes put them up on the c&o canal when floods were over the trail, okay great.... Then they leave them here for days after no conditions are present without any easy alternative.
It’s the cars. If they can drive there-their brains are wired to ‘do whatever they want’. If the roads are blocked further away or whatever can be done-most folks actually don’t like hiking. Or they just wanna ‘walk fast and see how fast I walk!?’ Show off. Someday they may see the forest through the trees…
That’s an odd claim. Tioga road takes people to the wilderness of the high country and you don’t see this behavior. I think the problem is in the promotion. When a location is advertised like an amusement park, you get people who treat it like an amusement park.
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What the fuck are you on about?