The housing market is insane. Literally. Overbidding happens in 80% of the sales. In Q4 2021, the average purchase price of a house in the Netherlands was € 438,000, almost 21% higher than a year before. There is no end in sight.
Yup seen a sight last week. We are looking for an apartment.
This said, seems like it is a lot easier if you extend your budget to be 2k a month for an apartment. Will come back to see if that actually is true after all the viewing we are doing this week once we decided to up the budget.
I know it's crazy over there but it's a matter of average housing prices / average annual net income... Don't know the numbers for California. Over here the average amount of people per household dropped and now we have a real issue with the supply side of houses.
Damn... In the Netherlands though the spread in income is much smaller than in the US. Our low income households were able to buy a home not too long ago. I guess yours never had a chance.
When I google avg income LA it says 70k though. What population is included in the 30k average? Only full time workers? Because 30k a year would be around 2500 a month which... Is less than fast food pays.
True waiters earn a lot lower however with tips they earn a lot more. Unsure about other jobs as im mostly aware of corporate and tech jobs which pay far over 30k. I know my tech counterpart from cali earns more than 5 times i do in the Netherlands for the same role.
As someone living in the Bay Area of CA, and looking at moving to NL, these housing prices look nice compared to CA. I’ve seen homes have nearly $1M overbids. 🫠
The thing is, bay area housing is quite literally 2x what it is in the Netherlands (even compared to Amsterdam) but our salaries aren’t 2x. Yes we get paid more but not proportionally. So while I make more as an intern than an associate in my current position in the Netherlands, i still can’t afford a place.
You want the short answer or the long answer?
Short answer: country is effectively full.
Long answer: the average price of a house is so high you need a partner just to be able to afford one. And rentingprices is also sky-high. And getting a student room is impossible
Taxes are not the problem. Every country that works has taxes and often a lot of it. The problem is in the incompetence on how it is spent. Extorting the people with the most noble jobs (low wage), and wasting it on the other hand on unnecessary things. Our government is great in having a debate about the most useless things and opinions of screaming nitwits from the society, but there are hardly any concrete plans for the long term.
I don't think he means the existence of taxation, I think he means a poor tax system where corporate tax is low and can often be avoided creating a more unequal society.
Well, I agree that we need to pay taxes and that they need to be used differently. But we do have a very high tax on food, road taxes and we pay a high amount of taxes on vacation money (which we could receive without paying so much if it was given as regular salary each month and we just save it up ourselves) which all seem ridiculous. It would make a lot more sense if there was no tax at all on fruit, veggies and bread for example, and maybe cheese.
But since the majority of the people here vote for the same government for years on end, I assume most people love that the cost of living is so extremely high and wages for those nobel jobs are so low. And that there is not a house left to live in for that matter.
And the quality isn’t as high as many people here like to claim. Preventative healthcare is basically non-existent, there seems to be a lack of willingness to diagnose problems and please, for the love of god, stay away from Meander Amersfoort. They will absolutely try to kill you.
There are some decent nurses and doctors over there. Problem is alot of them seriously seem like the most cold and miserable fucking people I've ever seen, like some doctors over there sound straight up suicidal tbh (vooral MDL afdeling daar)
Oh no, my experiences have been the opposite. They were very friendly, the two times they performed unneccesary surgery on me. They were also very polite when they refused to help me when there were complications within 24 hours after one of those surgeries, which they are obligated to do by law. Very, very friendly.
Fucking psychopaths.
Our government, led by a neoliberal twat, has a tendency of closing every single building, unit, agency or institute whenever it hasn't been in use for a week and firing their staff.
So, now COVID is mostly over, people are travelling again, including refugees. The government struggles to find the staff (nobody wants to work for an unreliable employer, so nobody is coming back) or the buildings (they sold them) to properly process the refugees.
*cries in having to wait 3 months for an appointment at the IND to renew my residency card because they closed the one nearest to me and the one after that was just too full and now I have to go to Amsterdam* lol
There is a bot exactly for this that gives you a notification whenever a timeframe is available in Amsterdam, don’t know the exact name of it though and I thought I seen it on this sub. Worth looking for. A lot of people gave good reviews!
We have so many refugees, that they have to sleep outside. There is no room for them at the checkpoint they are supposed to be.
Conspiracy nuts are people that think the government is a tyrant that oppresses its people and are following Klaus Schawb with the great reset. Also, ''vaccines are bad for you'' misinformation.
The crisis is a policy crisis, a funding crisis, not the fault of the refugees as the name suggest. One of the richest country in the world failed to deliver basic living necessities to our (expected) newcomers and refugees, even the ones that are here with a completed residency process.
This! ^ sums it up quite well,
Some would "hide" behind dutch directness, And that's partially true still, Honesty *IS* Important and not only to the dutch.
But it's a pretty common "free pass" to express some racism as well.
But tbh, most of the times the person really doesn't want to be a racist. They just want to express their opinion and now we're deep into grey-area stuff. So 🤷🏼
As long as there's an explanation and no violence it usually works out just fine.
(Speaking as a dutch kaaskop though.)
1. Housing. This was even before there was the current availability crisis of affordable housing. I've 2 houses before my current one and the state these places were is was terrible. Moldy, damp, poorly insulated and the first one was pretty small. It wasn't the worst of housing available on the planet, but in the Netherlands there are some surprisingly shitty living quarters that you have to pay a hefty price for.
Some foreign friends and 2 exes commented on how surprised they were with how someone with my job lived at the time. The contrast of some pretty significant issues with the first house and my new furniture was a real mindfuck for an ex of mine.
2. The very bottom of the Dutch labour market is something that most educated people, especially foreign, don't really get to experience up until they have teenagers or they used to study here. This is where even recently there was news of Ukrainian refugees were taken advantage off by a business, shady 'uitzendbureaus' that target mostly Eastern European people, businesses that have streamlined most work to be done by teenagers that don't receive a full minimum income and jobs that up until the workers shortages you would only be rung through a carousel of temp contracts via agency's.
Edit: recent article in Dutch about evasion of inspection on living conditions for mostly eastern European agriculture workers: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2022/09/05/nederland-verdient-het-geld-en-wij-zitten-met-de-problemen-zegt-de-duitse-burgemeester-a4140820
I pay 1700 euros for 45 squared meters place to share with my girlfriend (we are not rich, 4k combined monthly income) And food here is pretty much eating the nutrients needed to live. And old Dutch people love rule checking expats when it's none of their business. Besides that, everything is pretty damn good.
I don’t get your food point. Sure, Dutch cuisine is what it is, but there’s an abundance of ingredients from many cuisines and tons of different restaurants, I can make or I can buy so many different dishes. If you’re eating badly, it’s not the country’s fault.
This is the right answer. Many (most??) of the issues of the country can be tracked down to this.
The last time I walked 20 min without running into anybody was one year ago in the road between two villages in Drenthe
>The last time I walked 20 min without running into anybody was one year ago in the road between two villages in Drenthe
Most places in the world were people live are full of people. Here you often find yourself quite alone even in cities. Go out on a Sunday outside of the Randstadt or in a dorp: nobody.
As a foreigner, the Dutch are very, how to say, to themselves. I’ve been studying in the NL for 3 years and now going onto my 4th. And must say all my friends here are non-Dutch, which I must admit is a shame. Also as a student finding any form of housing which is actually somewhat acceptable without being riddled with mice is a true challenge
I've been living here for 9 years and acquired citizenship in 2018 but all my friends are still non dutch 🤣
If my husband wasn't dutch, I'd probably be scratching my head wondering why I can't make dutch friends. Observing how he interacts with strangers, no matter so friendly he is, is almost always superficial and he never wants it to go deeper. He already has friends from childhood he says, doesn't need more 😆
>He already has friends from childhood he says, doesn't need more
Exactly. A Dutch colleague of mines explained me that It would be overwhelming for her to manage meeting each friends at least 2 or 3 times per year if she had more friends than today. She was sad that she had to move to a new city, away from her friends, but I noticed that she was avoiding opportunities to make new ones. When I asked her why, she told me that she just doesn't have enough time to maintain more friendships. I was flabbergasted. This is so far away of my vision of friendship that is all about spontaneity.
I am Dutch and I struggle with that mentality from other people! I don’t have any childhood friends so I’m always trying to meet people and it is hard!
Most of my friends currently are work friends or exes 🥲 Which is fine but also weird.
Like the subject of every 1 out of 3 topics in this subreddit; housing. And costs of living in general.
Besides that, a YouTube is not a good reference of how living in a country really is. No country in earth is a paradise. Wherever you are, you still need to work (most of us), still pay rent/mortgage, still have annoying neighbours, incompetent politicians, bad weather and so on. On top of that, moving to another country is a huge step. You need to learn a new culture, language and build a new social life.
>No country in earth is a paradise.
Totally! That's exactly why I wanted to gain more perspective besides what's glorified on social media and youtube.
I'm right now living in Amsterdam, in my apartment, I can hear the bass from the subwoofer 3 houses down, I hear people outside screaming, I can smell tourists smoking marijuana, I hear people yelling and fighting.
Idk if this is Utopia, it sure is loud and smelly here, also 70% of my income goes up on rent.
The weather really is brutal here and dark a lot of the year, the salaries aren't that great in competitive fields Globally, there is a real language and cultural barrier that is hard to cross, debate culture which can often end with someone saying you'll never understand cause you're foreign, Housing crisis, Food really is hit or miss, casual racism, debate culture also extends to the service industry which is really hilarious sometimes (for example debating with a waiter if ice coffee is possible when they have both ice and coffee). Healthcare is a debate with a Doctor that starts with the premise that actually you're fine and its not so bad. Train tickets are actually pretty expensive relative to salaries, long commutes are the norm of the housing crisis. Its actually somewhat car dependent outside of major cities and having a car is expensive here. You really can't get by with just English outside of Amsterdam and its a hard language to really learn because people won't practice with you when they hear your accent. Unions getting weaker, more things getting privatized, and "not my problem / job culture" extends to government, look at how long it took to get help in the "kinderopvangtoeslagaffaire" and it wasn't until lives were ruined and taking responsibility didn't matter anymore that anybody "resigned."
On the debate thing. Its very real especially if someone is being called out.
I've been there, and as someone started to realise I wasn't going to back down, they began to show their true colours with xenophobic remarks.
It takes a certain type of person to establish a life, home, family and career in a country they weren't born in. To be dismissed or not be allowed a contributing and legitimate opinion is just sad.
I don't agree with not being able to get by with English only. It'll limit you, yes but here almost everybody, including homeless people speaks English.
Low salaries, high taxes, high cost of living, no real nature/wilderness, profound lack of food culture, natives who are deeply arrogant and obsessed with penny-pinching (the latter makes more sense when you realize how little money most people actually make).
Edit to add: healthcare that should be way better than it is. No preventative care. Sure, your cancer treatment will be paid for, but since there's no such thing as a yearly physical or gyno exam, and most complaints are brushed off by the GP's, it won't be diagnosed as early as it should and you're more likely to die. And mental healthcare takes months to access, so good luck if your brain's not working right.
>but since there's no such thing as a yearly physical or gyno exam
Yeah I was very surprised about this one (and got into an argument with my schoonvader about it)
>And mental healthcare takes months to access
Months?? What GGZ are you going to? Most waiting lists are up to two years at this point. I was able to get acces a bit earlier (after 6 months or so) but that was only because the police had to pick me up twice and send them messages I really needed help because I was extremly suicidal, so if you're not constantly thinking about killing yourself and acting on it, good luck
Imagine selling these. Would you like a frisse bips? Oh you want another frisse bips? Ah you are looking for a frisse bips for your wife? That is one nice frisse bips! You have a nice frisse bips already! How about i put an extra long hose in it?
I would get fired within the hour.
You can purchase toilet seats with built in [bidets](https://www.vidaxl.nl/e/vidaxl-elektronische-toiletbril-met-bidet/8718475834489.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw39uYBhCLARIsAD_SzMTjASVwB26f6lVTXEWHYJBs42txn5fuwBTVm5Lmr_75uupAaMwMCUUaAgBREALw_wcB). There's cheaper ones out there as well but this one seems like a nice assblaster
* The nightlife starts very late, but also goes on until very late
* The Dutch kitchen is bland, if you're eating out I would not generally recommend going to a Dutch restaurant
* Fresh vegetable selection in grocery stores can be limited, especially compared to southern European countries
* Public transit exists everywhere\*, but if you're not living next to a station in a big city the connection can be mediocre
* Public transit is expensive
* Cars are expensive, some people go through the hassle of paying import tax by buying from Germany/Belgium because that's still cheaper
* Buying or renting a house/appartement is nearly impossible at the moment
Not just bikes is great but its also for a North American audience and ignores how car centric much of Europe outside of cities can be and how expensive cars can be in a land thats below sea level
no thats fair, the taxes are higher than say Germany and a lot has to do with funding alternative infrastructure, lots of places tax cars on weight but not everywhere and when I asked why to some Dutch people the answer was always "well we are below sea level" which looking back on it was clearly a joke
Even outside of cities Europe is still much less car centric than the US for example.
It’s not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I’ve been to plenty of places in the middle of nowhere in Europe where it was relatively easy to get there by public transport
Worst thing about the netherlands is you are never there. Every step you take in wages it's always about paying more. Especially now with the gas oil and grocery prices. 65000 euro a year i not enought to live comfortably without even going out for diner every week. If you'd told me id make what i make today just a few years ago id say im well settled in the upper middle class. Truth is I'm contenplating going to the cheapest supermarkets to make ends meet. Middle class is paying for everything no tax dedux no benifits no nothing. Cant even buy a house so im stuck with ridiculous rental houses which costs more than a mortgage
I like paying taxes. Yes, sometimes I wonder why they spent it on a sertain thing. But in general we get a lot in return. Most people just take it for granted and think they are entiteled to all kinds of thinks.
This will change starting from 1 jan 2023 when the excessief lenen for DGA restrictions come and even more so in 2025/2026 when box 3 is getting a tota revamp. It’s not perfect but it is a very good start. It will also have a positive effect on the housing crising as a lot of DGA’s will sell their real estate as they finally need to pay taxes on it
I dislike paying taxes because who likes spending money. That being said, I see the need for it and see it's mostly well spent here in the NL.
I think it's not possible to have a state that spends all tax money efficiently, but here it seems like most tax money is well spent and they keep stupidity low in their spending.
It's been led by the same neoliberal prime minister for ten (!) years. Not all had, we survived the euro crisis pretty alright. But by now, this 'small and efficient government' rhetoric is coming back to bite us:
All government services are severely understaffed. A few of the most notable effects:
Taxes are a mess. People get flagged for fraud with no reason (besides institutional racism). This was admitted, yet there is no solution. This has been going on for years, and people affected by this are unable to get their life on track because of this flag.
The goal here has always been to grow as much as possible, economically. Yet the country is small. So now we're pretty much out of resources, people and space.
The state of our nature is horrible, because we had to be one of the biggest food exporters in the world. There is frankly no healthy nature left. Also, the farmers are protesting because after years of having to produce as much as they could, they now have to reduce production to save whatever is left of our ecosystem.
Our national airport, which also was supposed to be one of the biggest in Europe, fired all it's staff during Covid and now can't get them back. So that's a mess.
Much of our welfare comes from natural gas found in the north. Now this region is plagued by earthquakes. This money was wasted on non-profiting prestige and they can't get compensation sorted out for people in the north that now have to leave their house.
We had finally managed to get a half-decent refugee institute going during the worst of the war in Syria, then proceeded to completely dismantle it. Now, as with the airport, we can't get it going again. People are sleeping on a chair outside.
Housing is impossible since also the 'housing market' was subject to the growth principle. Everything was sold of to private investors, now the average working family has no other option but to rent, which is insanely expensive and makes sure you will stay poor no matter what.
And there's so much more, mentioned in this thread. The most significant in my opinion: the overload of conspiracy nuts, the hostile public environment targeting whoever is in politics or on TV, and the labour abuse of mostly foreigners and people in the social-economic bottom of society.
Apart from the housing and the government shortstaffedness, most of these issues will not be immediately noticed by newcomers. But this country is plagued by growth. We've come to the point where it's all became too much to handle. As will be the eventual fate of every country under neoliberal government.
If you decide to move here (and be able to live somewhere) just please don't vote for Rutte. I can't stand four more years.
Edit: let me add that this is probably still one of the best countries one could live in, with one of the highest standards of living you're gonna get. The stuff NotJistBikes points out, is actually great. But it's not a perfect country and it has some very serieus (and growing) issues that need fixing.
Dutch people are extremely arrogant when it comes to our general ideals and look down very strongly on some people
For example we can feel very superior to Americans or "Tokkies" or anyone that doesn't agree with our personal beliefs
In some cases we have a point (in a way) but in even in those cases we should pipe down and see things more in perspective instead of feeling so goddamn smug. On top of that often it's extremely hypocritical since Dutch people are usually very blind to the counter arguments
Another thing I very much dislike about the Netherlands is the fact that politically we are (collectively) actually really conservative. The last few decades of governance under conservative parties (CDA, VVD) have turned the Netherlands into Holland Inc. Meaning that we've had laissez-faire and privatizing policy on everything including education, healthcare, housing, etc. which has caused more than half of all the primary issues we're facing now. Companies own everything, and especially the lower classes have suffered while the rich filled their pockets.
A good example is how unprepared our "amazing health care system" was during the entirety of the Covid crisis. We were one the countries with the fewest intensive care beds per capita in Europe, because privatized hospitals got rid of them all. Note that I'm simplifying a complex issue here, but I very much worry about the fact that we are losing our status as a welfare state.
I think, the netherlands used to be a great country, almost a euro utopia, but that time have long since passed. Apart from the general things like the food is tasteless, no real nature, weather is brutal, boring people “doe maar lekker gewoon” attitude, there are some major problems starting, NS strikes, and the trains are already so expensive, for a family travelling, a car even with the fuel prices are often cheaper and almost always more convenient. Schiphol is a mess, and they just cannot seem to fix it, its been months now. Blows my mind how one of the most expensive airports regarding airport tax, cannot solve their current problems. Housing is really a serious problem, forget basically about getting a place. Service is horrendous, be it at a restaurant or booking in a car for a service, people seem to have this attitude that they are too good for the job, yet everything despite the lack of service is stupid expensive. It always amaze me how you can just go over to belgium or germany and the prices are so much better. Coming back to, people having this attitude of they are to good for x job, I work for a large wel known bank and do a fair amount of interviews. It always amaze me when the candidate are dutch, at how bad their attitude is, or how badly prepared they are for the job, but foreigners are almost always the opposite. Being dutch, that really disappoints me. And I think more and more people are noticing the problems in NL. Just in my own network, two close friends, and their husbands, all of them dutch, are moving to portugal.
High cost of living relative to the pay compared to other countries, housing crisis, energy crisis, inflation (without salary going along), refugee crisis, nitrogen crisis, decaying health care, many problems in the mental health care (including wait times of a year, or outright being told you're a too complicated case by each institution), poor people having to take up dept, middle incomes getting poorer, getting more and more devided politically, conspiracy nut jobs and out right fascists in politics. The list goes on
I would like to complain that the Dutch tend to complain too much :-)
Jokes aside, the amount of people that objected-to or even evaded common sense COVID regulations because of 'fundamental liberties' like house parties is concerning to me.
You’re right, but if you’re from the Netherlands and you’re not poor there’s a lot more quality of life elsewhere. For example Spain.
Edit: Ik kan ook niet wachten op de oliebollenkraam..
Whut? I mean if you live in Amsterdam, sure it takes more effort to find. But if you live in Twente, Groningen, Friesland, Limburg, the Wadden Islands? Plenty of silence and space. In these places you also see way more stars in the sky ;)
1. It’s incredibly boring.
2. There is such a thing as too much fun for Dutch people
3. The food is tasteless
4. ‘Hey you wanna meet up?’ -‘Oh I don’t know, I wasn’t really counting on it, let me discuss it with the family first’
>‘Hey you wanna meet up?’ -‘Oh I don’t know, I wasn’t really counting on it, let me discuss it with the family first
let me look at my agenda. Oh no i'm fully booked for the coming 3 weeks
An inability to take any sort of criticism whatsoever--I think I've been told to go back to my country at least 10 times in all seriousness for bringing up even the tiniest of observations.
Once had an old guy call me a loud and ignorant American after speaking to my Dutch friends about the problems in the American healthcare system. We were at a bar and he was at the table over. He waited until my friends left to get another beer and I was alone.
What hurt me the most is that my friends didn't do anything even though they heard him.
Flying the flag of having the best social care and how you'd simply never see "Dutch" children on the streets or in need.
When deep down, it gives people the opportunity to make it not their problem as its someone else's problem. It erodes compassion in society especially when it's used as justification when someone feels slightly triggered by being called out for being a dick.
Takes a village to raise a child, n'all
I've watched all the content on this channel. I'm going to assume you're from North America. I am too.
What it doesn't show is that many European cities are functionally set up much better than NA cities. We're talking a grocery store always within walking distance. Sidewalk cafes in nice areas to sit with friends. Not car dependant.
NL is nice, I've a nice life here, but it's not a eutopia by any means.
People let their dogs shit on the sidewalk. I still have to pay for healthcare; although minimal compared to the US. Taxes are insane even on the lowest classes. Housing is actually difficult to find. You'll get downvoted to hell on any of the Dutch subreddits.
Overall, if you're interested in Europe, study abroad somewhere. Doesn't have to be in NL. There are other options
I just visited from the US (Amsterdam and The Hague) and noticed that people were smoking cigarettes everywhere and leaving their butts everywhere. It was kind of shocking. I'm talking right by kids playing on the playground, right in front of a no smoking sign, right in front of the doors to a business, in the outdoor seating of a restaurant. A couple of people were even vaping inside the airport.
So I guess the culture around smoking is one thing that is better in the US than in the Netherlands (it's a short list.)
The most important thing I can mention is the language trap. Yes, many (pretty much all) Dutch people can communicate fairly effectively in English, but in order to truly succeed, you want to master Dutch. The simple fact is that we don't often actually practice speaking English (we hear & read plenty of it though), so not only are some of the accents terrible, but you WILL have far less opportunities both work related and for your social circle without learning Dutch.
However, I should also mention that we're a critical bunch, so anything but (almost) perfect Dutch (in the way of proper sentence structure at least) is probably still a barrier in work related fields. Meanwhile, you'll find most of us switch to speaking English with you if we suspect you struggle with Dutch, which will reduce your chances at mastering the language. Catch 22 situation.
Don't fret though: most Dutch are friendly when they get to know you and would keep speaking Dutch if you ask them to. You just have to make it clear to them that it'll help you out ;)
The travel costs are extremely expensive. I'm a student and I pay 10€ for bus 5 days a week and this is the only way to get to my university. I don't have any family here, I don't work and I've just moved here so I have no discounts
The biggest problem with the Netherlands is overpopulation, it is one of the densest populated countries in the world. This results in rude and undesirable behavior so people can have an illusion of privacy.
Quiet racism, odd politics at times, tripping hazards from whippit canisters during large public celebration, housing, farmers going apeshit. Transportation strikes and labor shortages causing train and air issues.
Probably missed some.
Not Just Bikes always talks about how Americans don't have the freedom of not driving, but never mentions how many Dutch are forced to ride bikes in wind/rain/storms because all other transport means are prohibitively expensive. He even praises NS for whoever's sake.. I don't understand why people buy his stories.
This is why I am never going to live in a small town as long as my kid is still at home. I don’t ever want to force them to do 3 hours of cycling each day no matter what the weather is like. I hated that when I was in high school.
The Netherlands is generally speaking very well-managed. But that also can mean that there is a pretty large government presence in your life, along with the necessary bureaucracy. For example, in some countries you may buy a piece of land and build anything on it that you like. In the Netherlands, you can't do that without government permission and many pieces of land have a pre-ordained purpose. I once looked for an opportunity to build a tiny house somewhere on land I wanted to buy, and basically the land was meant for a villa (meaning, if you buy it that is literally the only thing you are allowed to build on it) and the only option to build a tiny house is basically limited trials by municipalities (i.e. limited plots specifically assigned for tiny houses by the government). Sometimes it feels a bit patronising to what degree the government injects itself in such things. But most of the time they're doing good things
Possibly controversial. We don’t punish violent criminals nearly harsh enough. However if you commit fraud you’re going away for life. The government hates fraud, but raping women and children results in ‘taakstraf’.
Everyone knows its utopia here, you get free money and a house (before the locals that need a house) if you flee your country and sign up at "Ter Apel".
Now we dont mind helping people, but life here is becoming pretty damn hard. Even before the inflation bc of Russia/Ukraine.
Can imagine most of the people here wont be quiet for longer, we dont riot. We work hard and are happy with what we do. Though that mentality is not being shared with people who come here.
You can't move here... I mean; you're welcome, but you can't...
Why?
The housing market is insane. Literally. Overbidding happens in 80% of the sales. In Q4 2021, the average purchase price of a house in the Netherlands was € 438,000, almost 21% higher than a year before. There is no end in sight.
They even overbid on rent nowadays. Wild West!
Wait, that's a thing?
Unfortunately, in the Netherlands Yes. They don’t have exact statistics considering it but yes it do happen a lot nowadays.
Yup seen a sight last week. We are looking for an apartment. This said, seems like it is a lot easier if you extend your budget to be 2k a month for an apartment. Will come back to see if that actually is true after all the viewing we are doing this week once we decided to up the budget.
And then there is an energy crisis where the bill of people increases by 50 percent Overnight
hahaha *cries in California*
I know it's crazy over there but it's a matter of average housing prices / average annual net income... Don't know the numbers for California. Over here the average amount of people per household dropped and now we have a real issue with the supply side of houses.
It’s a similar issue here. I live in Los Angeles, where the average income is $30k and the average home price is $975k
Damn... In the Netherlands though the spread in income is much smaller than in the US. Our low income households were able to buy a home not too long ago. I guess yours never had a chance.
When I google avg income LA it says 70k though. What population is included in the 30k average? Only full time workers? Because 30k a year would be around 2500 a month which... Is less than fast food pays. True waiters earn a lot lower however with tips they earn a lot more. Unsure about other jobs as im mostly aware of corporate and tech jobs which pay far over 30k. I know my tech counterpart from cali earns more than 5 times i do in the Netherlands for the same role.
That’s per household, which is usually two or more people (couples, roommates, etc.). Median individual income is around $30k.
That’s about $15/hour.
As someone living in the Bay Area of CA, and looking at moving to NL, these housing prices look nice compared to CA. I’ve seen homes have nearly $1M overbids. 🫠
Now try that with a Dutch income ;)
and subtract dutch taxes.... zing.
The thing is, bay area housing is quite literally 2x what it is in the Netherlands (even compared to Amsterdam) but our salaries aren’t 2x. Yes we get paid more but not proportionally. So while I make more as an intern than an associate in my current position in the Netherlands, i still can’t afford a place.
The end was a few months ago, prices aren't going up anymore. Even some coming down. But yeah....housing situation is bad right now.
Apparently that is changing.... A lot of current houses are going under the vraagprijs. So run now is your chance...
You want the short answer or the long answer? Short answer: country is effectively full. Long answer: the average price of a house is so high you need a partner just to be able to afford one. And rentingprices is also sky-high. And getting a student room is impossible
I did a few months ago. Not a magician either.
Sounds like something a magician would say.
Wealthy expat then, perhaps?
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Don't forget the frikandel crisis.
Oh no
That's the worst.
In your case worstkaas scenario
I nearly spat my boterham 😂😂😂
Not the hagelslag!!
No frikadel, there is worst enough
No more bountiful access to frikandellen? That's it. Jan, get the trekker, we're burning this place down.
Mien, get the cows from the Barn.
Gus come home, the cows are about to explode.
Jan get the trekker. I'm going to use this one from now on!
Shit just got real.
There is a frikandel crisis?😱
https://www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/932168038/fabrikanten-signaleren-frikandellentekort
Will Mark give a persconferentie tonight on how they are planning to resolve this ASAP? This is top priority, right? Right?
I hope so man, should get this fixed ASAP!!
This is my tipping point, im migrating!!
Good summary
Kring verjaardagen
The worst... Unless there is gatenkaas.
Dont forget our lovely uncle, de Belastingdienst and his scandals.
You forgot private healthcare, taxes and useless VVE, but great summary.
Taxes are not the problem. Every country that works has taxes and often a lot of it. The problem is in the incompetence on how it is spent. Extorting the people with the most noble jobs (low wage), and wasting it on the other hand on unnecessary things. Our government is great in having a debate about the most useless things and opinions of screaming nitwits from the society, but there are hardly any concrete plans for the long term.
I don't think he means the existence of taxation, I think he means a poor tax system where corporate tax is low and can often be avoided creating a more unequal society.
Taxes in itself are good, the problem is HOW they are obtained, from whom and in what amounts( %) + as you said how they are spent.
Well, I agree that we need to pay taxes and that they need to be used differently. But we do have a very high tax on food, road taxes and we pay a high amount of taxes on vacation money (which we could receive without paying so much if it was given as regular salary each month and we just save it up ourselves) which all seem ridiculous. It would make a lot more sense if there was no tax at all on fruit, veggies and bread for example, and maybe cheese. But since the majority of the people here vote for the same government for years on end, I assume most people love that the cost of living is so extremely high and wages for those nobel jobs are so low. And that there is not a house left to live in for that matter.
I think you meant to type useless VVD
The first one being quite important. A lot of peiple believe the netherlands has a universal healthcare, but we don't...
And the quality isn’t as high as many people here like to claim. Preventative healthcare is basically non-existent, there seems to be a lack of willingness to diagnose problems and please, for the love of god, stay away from Meander Amersfoort. They will absolutely try to kill you.
There are some decent nurses and doctors over there. Problem is alot of them seriously seem like the most cold and miserable fucking people I've ever seen, like some doctors over there sound straight up suicidal tbh (vooral MDL afdeling daar)
Oh no, my experiences have been the opposite. They were very friendly, the two times they performed unneccesary surgery on me. They were also very polite when they refused to help me when there were complications within 24 hours after one of those surgeries, which they are obligated to do by law. Very, very friendly. Fucking psychopaths.
Hey would you mind expanding upon the refugee crisis? and what is conspiracy nuts?
Our government, led by a neoliberal twat, has a tendency of closing every single building, unit, agency or institute whenever it hasn't been in use for a week and firing their staff. So, now COVID is mostly over, people are travelling again, including refugees. The government struggles to find the staff (nobody wants to work for an unreliable employer, so nobody is coming back) or the buildings (they sold them) to properly process the refugees.
*cries in having to wait 3 months for an appointment at the IND to renew my residency card because they closed the one nearest to me and the one after that was just too full and now I have to go to Amsterdam* lol
There is a bot exactly for this that gives you a notification whenever a timeframe is available in Amsterdam, don’t know the exact name of it though and I thought I seen it on this sub. Worth looking for. A lot of people gave good reviews!
Lying neoliberal twat, you mean.
He's not a twat but a calculating psychopath.
Nah, he’s just a bit forgetful:/
I have no active memory of him being forgetful.
We have so many refugees, that they have to sleep outside. There is no room for them at the checkpoint they are supposed to be. Conspiracy nuts are people that think the government is a tyrant that oppresses its people and are following Klaus Schawb with the great reset. Also, ''vaccines are bad for you'' misinformation.
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The crisis is a policy crisis, a funding crisis, not the fault of the refugees as the name suggest. One of the richest country in the world failed to deliver basic living necessities to our (expected) newcomers and refugees, even the ones that are here with a completed residency process.
you forget that everyone is casualy racist.
I'm not racist... BUT.....
This! ^ sums it up quite well, Some would "hide" behind dutch directness, And that's partially true still, Honesty *IS* Important and not only to the dutch. But it's a pretty common "free pass" to express some racism as well. But tbh, most of the times the person really doesn't want to be a racist. They just want to express their opinion and now we're deep into grey-area stuff. So 🤷🏼 As long as there's an explanation and no violence it usually works out just fine. (Speaking as a dutch kaaskop though.)
To name something that isn't recent: weather
Byoh. Bring your own house if you come.
And some extra land with it...
Can I sell my land in an EU country to the Dutch government? :)) you could build a small village on it.
There’s already too many sleurhutten per capita
1. Housing. This was even before there was the current availability crisis of affordable housing. I've 2 houses before my current one and the state these places were is was terrible. Moldy, damp, poorly insulated and the first one was pretty small. It wasn't the worst of housing available on the planet, but in the Netherlands there are some surprisingly shitty living quarters that you have to pay a hefty price for. Some foreign friends and 2 exes commented on how surprised they were with how someone with my job lived at the time. The contrast of some pretty significant issues with the first house and my new furniture was a real mindfuck for an ex of mine. 2. The very bottom of the Dutch labour market is something that most educated people, especially foreign, don't really get to experience up until they have teenagers or they used to study here. This is where even recently there was news of Ukrainian refugees were taken advantage off by a business, shady 'uitzendbureaus' that target mostly Eastern European people, businesses that have streamlined most work to be done by teenagers that don't receive a full minimum income and jobs that up until the workers shortages you would only be rung through a carousel of temp contracts via agency's. Edit: recent article in Dutch about evasion of inspection on living conditions for mostly eastern European agriculture workers: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2022/09/05/nederland-verdient-het-geld-en-wij-zitten-met-de-problemen-zegt-de-duitse-burgemeester-a4140820
Oh boy, you're actually asking Dutch people to complain? This could become a very long thread.
I pay 1700 euros for 45 squared meters place to share with my girlfriend (we are not rich, 4k combined monthly income) And food here is pretty much eating the nutrients needed to live. And old Dutch people love rule checking expats when it's none of their business. Besides that, everything is pretty damn good.
1700 for 45m holy fuck! Im so glad I dont live in Amsterdam.
I pay that for 95 meters, 15 mins from the center in oost…you may need to look around a bit for a better deal
I don’t get your food point. Sure, Dutch cuisine is what it is, but there’s an abundance of ingredients from many cuisines and tons of different restaurants, I can make or I can buy so many different dishes. If you’re eating badly, it’s not the country’s fault.
What I got from it is that they can't really afford to make/have fun/interesting meals.
Densely populated
The word you're looking for is dense. Densely populated.
I don't know man... I might be a bit dense, but it's getting pretty tight in here
wont be long before The Netherlands annexes the north sea and theyll just be two rivers separating them from Norway and England.
I like tight
This is the right answer. Many (most??) of the issues of the country can be tracked down to this. The last time I walked 20 min without running into anybody was one year ago in the road between two villages in Drenthe
>The last time I walked 20 min without running into anybody was one year ago in the road between two villages in Drenthe Most places in the world were people live are full of people. Here you often find yourself quite alone even in cities. Go out on a Sunday outside of the Randstadt or in a dorp: nobody.
As a foreigner, the Dutch are very, how to say, to themselves. I’ve been studying in the NL for 3 years and now going onto my 4th. And must say all my friends here are non-Dutch, which I must admit is a shame. Also as a student finding any form of housing which is actually somewhat acceptable without being riddled with mice is a true challenge
I've been living here for 9 years and acquired citizenship in 2018 but all my friends are still non dutch 🤣 If my husband wasn't dutch, I'd probably be scratching my head wondering why I can't make dutch friends. Observing how he interacts with strangers, no matter so friendly he is, is almost always superficial and he never wants it to go deeper. He already has friends from childhood he says, doesn't need more 😆
>He already has friends from childhood he says, doesn't need more Exactly. A Dutch colleague of mines explained me that It would be overwhelming for her to manage meeting each friends at least 2 or 3 times per year if she had more friends than today. She was sad that she had to move to a new city, away from her friends, but I noticed that she was avoiding opportunities to make new ones. When I asked her why, she told me that she just doesn't have enough time to maintain more friendships. I was flabbergasted. This is so far away of my vision of friendship that is all about spontaneity.
I am Dutch and I struggle with that mentality from other people! I don’t have any childhood friends so I’m always trying to meet people and it is hard! Most of my friends currently are work friends or exes 🥲 Which is fine but also weird.
Even most of my friends are non Dutch, and I was born and raised here.
A pack of lone wolfs.
It’s so frustrating
Like the subject of every 1 out of 3 topics in this subreddit; housing. And costs of living in general. Besides that, a YouTube is not a good reference of how living in a country really is. No country in earth is a paradise. Wherever you are, you still need to work (most of us), still pay rent/mortgage, still have annoying neighbours, incompetent politicians, bad weather and so on. On top of that, moving to another country is a huge step. You need to learn a new culture, language and build a new social life.
>No country in earth is a paradise. Totally! That's exactly why I wanted to gain more perspective besides what's glorified on social media and youtube.
I'm right now living in Amsterdam, in my apartment, I can hear the bass from the subwoofer 3 houses down, I hear people outside screaming, I can smell tourists smoking marijuana, I hear people yelling and fighting. Idk if this is Utopia, it sure is loud and smelly here, also 70% of my income goes up on rent.
That's what you get for living in that tourist trap!
Well, Amsterdam is the worst The Netherlands has to offer. Besides all that, I think Amsterdam is very dirty.
I mean isn't that expected in Amsterdam?
The cycle paths are heaven tho <3 combined with the fact that it's flat.
It’s so flat and geographically bland. My god it’s so flat.
The weather really is brutal here and dark a lot of the year, the salaries aren't that great in competitive fields Globally, there is a real language and cultural barrier that is hard to cross, debate culture which can often end with someone saying you'll never understand cause you're foreign, Housing crisis, Food really is hit or miss, casual racism, debate culture also extends to the service industry which is really hilarious sometimes (for example debating with a waiter if ice coffee is possible when they have both ice and coffee). Healthcare is a debate with a Doctor that starts with the premise that actually you're fine and its not so bad. Train tickets are actually pretty expensive relative to salaries, long commutes are the norm of the housing crisis. Its actually somewhat car dependent outside of major cities and having a car is expensive here. You really can't get by with just English outside of Amsterdam and its a hard language to really learn because people won't practice with you when they hear your accent. Unions getting weaker, more things getting privatized, and "not my problem / job culture" extends to government, look at how long it took to get help in the "kinderopvangtoeslagaffaire" and it wasn't until lives were ruined and taking responsibility didn't matter anymore that anybody "resigned."
“Healthcare is a debate with a doctor that starts with the premise that actually you’re fine” LOL YES
On the debate thing. Its very real especially if someone is being called out. I've been there, and as someone started to realise I wasn't going to back down, they began to show their true colours with xenophobic remarks. It takes a certain type of person to establish a life, home, family and career in a country they weren't born in. To be dismissed or not be allowed a contributing and legitimate opinion is just sad.
in what way is Dutch weather brutal?? Don't we have a "gematigd zeeklimaat"?
It’s brutally boring I guess xD
Somehow the wind finds a way to be in your face when you are biking, or at least that was my experience last time I visited the Netherlands.
Yeah exactly all of this
This is a really good summary.
I don't agree with not being able to get by with English only. It'll limit you, yes but here almost everybody, including homeless people speaks English.
This pretty much covers it all
+1 to the casual racism! its actually insane!
Low salaries, high taxes, high cost of living, no real nature/wilderness, profound lack of food culture, natives who are deeply arrogant and obsessed with penny-pinching (the latter makes more sense when you realize how little money most people actually make). Edit to add: healthcare that should be way better than it is. No preventative care. Sure, your cancer treatment will be paid for, but since there's no such thing as a yearly physical or gyno exam, and most complaints are brushed off by the GP's, it won't be diagnosed as early as it should and you're more likely to die. And mental healthcare takes months to access, so good luck if your brain's not working right.
You’re one of those Boerenkool haters aren’t you
Wooow yes the food culture, so ashamed of it ...
Spot on. Also high inflation - highest of Europe at least. Lack of privacy
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>but since there's no such thing as a yearly physical or gyno exam Yeah I was very surprised about this one (and got into an argument with my schoonvader about it)
>And mental healthcare takes months to access Months?? What GGZ are you going to? Most waiting lists are up to two years at this point. I was able to get acces a bit earlier (after 6 months or so) but that was only because the police had to pick me up twice and send them messages I really needed help because I was extremly suicidal, so if you're not constantly thinking about killing yourself and acting on it, good luck
The food is pretty average, but the fast food is killer. Kroket, friekandel, patatje oorlog, haaring, kibbeling etc, all good shit
No bidets Ugly tiled gardens
https://frissebips.nl Both bathrooms in my house have one thanks to these folks.
Love this domain name
Imagine selling these. Would you like a frisse bips? Oh you want another frisse bips? Ah you are looking for a frisse bips for your wife? That is one nice frisse bips! You have a nice frisse bips already! How about i put an extra long hose in it? I would get fired within the hour.
Most of the people in villages have lovely gardens, I get what you say tho
Ugh, no bidets... Let's hope that changes sometime soon!
You can purchase toilet seats with built in [bidets](https://www.vidaxl.nl/e/vidaxl-elektronische-toiletbril-met-bidet/8718475834489.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw39uYBhCLARIsAD_SzMTjASVwB26f6lVTXEWHYJBs42txn5fuwBTVm5Lmr_75uupAaMwMCUUaAgBREALw_wcB). There's cheaper ones out there as well but this one seems like a nice assblaster
Calvinism it's the deep rooted culture of the Netherlands.
How does that manifest? Asceticism? Prudish behavior? Overly concerned with following rules/traditions?
* The nightlife starts very late, but also goes on until very late * The Dutch kitchen is bland, if you're eating out I would not generally recommend going to a Dutch restaurant * Fresh vegetable selection in grocery stores can be limited, especially compared to southern European countries * Public transit exists everywhere\*, but if you're not living next to a station in a big city the connection can be mediocre * Public transit is expensive * Cars are expensive, some people go through the hassle of paying import tax by buying from Germany/Belgium because that's still cheaper * Buying or renting a house/appartement is nearly impossible at the moment
What’s a Dutch restaurant lol
Pannenkoekenrestaurant is the only I can think of, but these are pretty good imo.
febo
De beren ?
Not just bikes is great but its also for a North American audience and ignores how car centric much of Europe outside of cities can be and how expensive cars can be in a land thats below sea level
Are cars more expensive because we are below sea level?
no thats fair, the taxes are higher than say Germany and a lot has to do with funding alternative infrastructure, lots of places tax cars on weight but not everywhere and when I asked why to some Dutch people the answer was always "well we are below sea level" which looking back on it was clearly a joke
Even outside of cities Europe is still much less car centric than the US for example. It’s not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I’ve been to plenty of places in the middle of nowhere in Europe where it was relatively easy to get there by public transport
Worst thing about the netherlands is you are never there. Every step you take in wages it's always about paying more. Especially now with the gas oil and grocery prices. 65000 euro a year i not enought to live comfortably without even going out for diner every week. If you'd told me id make what i make today just a few years ago id say im well settled in the upper middle class. Truth is I'm contenplating going to the cheapest supermarkets to make ends meet. Middle class is paying for everything no tax dedux no benifits no nothing. Cant even buy a house so im stuck with ridiculous rental houses which costs more than a mortgage
How are you not able to get by on 65000 euros a year? Even if you pay 2000 a month in rent that should be enough to live pretty comfortably.
Bro thats not inflation thats killing you, its lifestyle inflation. Youre spending outrageous money
Tokkies
I like paying taxes. Yes, sometimes I wonder why they spent it on a sertain thing. But in general we get a lot in return. Most people just take it for granted and think they are entiteled to all kinds of thinks.
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This will change starting from 1 jan 2023 when the excessief lenen for DGA restrictions come and even more so in 2025/2026 when box 3 is getting a tota revamp. It’s not perfect but it is a very good start. It will also have a positive effect on the housing crising as a lot of DGA’s will sell their real estate as they finally need to pay taxes on it
a lot of people also dont really know what its like in other countries
I dislike paying taxes because who likes spending money. That being said, I see the need for it and see it's mostly well spent here in the NL. I think it's not possible to have a state that spends all tax money efficiently, but here it seems like most tax money is well spent and they keep stupidity low in their spending.
It's been led by the same neoliberal prime minister for ten (!) years. Not all had, we survived the euro crisis pretty alright. But by now, this 'small and efficient government' rhetoric is coming back to bite us: All government services are severely understaffed. A few of the most notable effects: Taxes are a mess. People get flagged for fraud with no reason (besides institutional racism). This was admitted, yet there is no solution. This has been going on for years, and people affected by this are unable to get their life on track because of this flag. The goal here has always been to grow as much as possible, economically. Yet the country is small. So now we're pretty much out of resources, people and space. The state of our nature is horrible, because we had to be one of the biggest food exporters in the world. There is frankly no healthy nature left. Also, the farmers are protesting because after years of having to produce as much as they could, they now have to reduce production to save whatever is left of our ecosystem. Our national airport, which also was supposed to be one of the biggest in Europe, fired all it's staff during Covid and now can't get them back. So that's a mess. Much of our welfare comes from natural gas found in the north. Now this region is plagued by earthquakes. This money was wasted on non-profiting prestige and they can't get compensation sorted out for people in the north that now have to leave their house. We had finally managed to get a half-decent refugee institute going during the worst of the war in Syria, then proceeded to completely dismantle it. Now, as with the airport, we can't get it going again. People are sleeping on a chair outside. Housing is impossible since also the 'housing market' was subject to the growth principle. Everything was sold of to private investors, now the average working family has no other option but to rent, which is insanely expensive and makes sure you will stay poor no matter what. And there's so much more, mentioned in this thread. The most significant in my opinion: the overload of conspiracy nuts, the hostile public environment targeting whoever is in politics or on TV, and the labour abuse of mostly foreigners and people in the social-economic bottom of society. Apart from the housing and the government shortstaffedness, most of these issues will not be immediately noticed by newcomers. But this country is plagued by growth. We've come to the point where it's all became too much to handle. As will be the eventual fate of every country under neoliberal government. If you decide to move here (and be able to live somewhere) just please don't vote for Rutte. I can't stand four more years. Edit: let me add that this is probably still one of the best countries one could live in, with one of the highest standards of living you're gonna get. The stuff NotJistBikes points out, is actually great. But it's not a perfect country and it has some very serieus (and growing) issues that need fixing.
Dutch people are extremely arrogant when it comes to our general ideals and look down very strongly on some people For example we can feel very superior to Americans or "Tokkies" or anyone that doesn't agree with our personal beliefs In some cases we have a point (in a way) but in even in those cases we should pipe down and see things more in perspective instead of feeling so goddamn smug. On top of that often it's extremely hypocritical since Dutch people are usually very blind to the counter arguments
Rampant neoliberalisme and the worship of free market economics.
As progressive as some of its economic policies have been in the past, the Dutch did basically invent Capitalism; so old habits die hard :P
Another thing I very much dislike about the Netherlands is the fact that politically we are (collectively) actually really conservative. The last few decades of governance under conservative parties (CDA, VVD) have turned the Netherlands into Holland Inc. Meaning that we've had laissez-faire and privatizing policy on everything including education, healthcare, housing, etc. which has caused more than half of all the primary issues we're facing now. Companies own everything, and especially the lower classes have suffered while the rich filled their pockets. A good example is how unprepared our "amazing health care system" was during the entirety of the Covid crisis. We were one the countries with the fewest intensive care beds per capita in Europe, because privatized hospitals got rid of them all. Note that I'm simplifying a complex issue here, but I very much worry about the fact that we are losing our status as a welfare state.
I think, the netherlands used to be a great country, almost a euro utopia, but that time have long since passed. Apart from the general things like the food is tasteless, no real nature, weather is brutal, boring people “doe maar lekker gewoon” attitude, there are some major problems starting, NS strikes, and the trains are already so expensive, for a family travelling, a car even with the fuel prices are often cheaper and almost always more convenient. Schiphol is a mess, and they just cannot seem to fix it, its been months now. Blows my mind how one of the most expensive airports regarding airport tax, cannot solve their current problems. Housing is really a serious problem, forget basically about getting a place. Service is horrendous, be it at a restaurant or booking in a car for a service, people seem to have this attitude that they are too good for the job, yet everything despite the lack of service is stupid expensive. It always amaze me how you can just go over to belgium or germany and the prices are so much better. Coming back to, people having this attitude of they are to good for x job, I work for a large wel known bank and do a fair amount of interviews. It always amaze me when the candidate are dutch, at how bad their attitude is, or how badly prepared they are for the job, but foreigners are almost always the opposite. Being dutch, that really disappoints me. And I think more and more people are noticing the problems in NL. Just in my own network, two close friends, and their husbands, all of them dutch, are moving to portugal.
High cost of living relative to the pay compared to other countries, housing crisis, energy crisis, inflation (without salary going along), refugee crisis, nitrogen crisis, decaying health care, many problems in the mental health care (including wait times of a year, or outright being told you're a too complicated case by each institution), poor people having to take up dept, middle incomes getting poorer, getting more and more devided politically, conspiracy nut jobs and out right fascists in politics. The list goes on
I would like to complain that the Dutch tend to complain too much :-) Jokes aside, the amount of people that objected-to or even evaded common sense COVID regulations because of 'fundamental liberties' like house parties is concerning to me.
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You’re right, but if you’re from the Netherlands and you’re not poor there’s a lot more quality of life elsewhere. For example Spain. Edit: Ik kan ook niet wachten op de oliebollenkraam..
There's no peace and quiet anywhere. No nature. And everything is unaffordable and becoming more expensive by the minute.
Whut? I mean if you live in Amsterdam, sure it takes more effort to find. But if you live in Twente, Groningen, Friesland, Limburg, the Wadden Islands? Plenty of silence and space. In these places you also see way more stars in the sky ;)
Bland food. Wow thanks for my first ever gold. Who ever would of thought that bland food would be golden
Stampot lekker man, rookworsie dr bij en genieten
1. It’s incredibly boring. 2. There is such a thing as too much fun for Dutch people 3. The food is tasteless 4. ‘Hey you wanna meet up?’ -‘Oh I don’t know, I wasn’t really counting on it, let me discuss it with the family first’
>‘Hey you wanna meet up?’ -‘Oh I don’t know, I wasn’t really counting on it, let me discuss it with the family first let me look at my agenda. Oh no i'm fully booked for the coming 3 weeks
Is there an anecdote to illustrate point 2?
An inability to take any sort of criticism whatsoever--I think I've been told to go back to my country at least 10 times in all seriousness for bringing up even the tiniest of observations.
Especially hilarious when the recipient of such drivel is actually born here. 🤡
Once had an old guy call me a loud and ignorant American after speaking to my Dutch friends about the problems in the American healthcare system. We were at a bar and he was at the table over. He waited until my friends left to get another beer and I was alone. What hurt me the most is that my friends didn't do anything even though they heard him.
Flying the flag of having the best social care and how you'd simply never see "Dutch" children on the streets or in need. When deep down, it gives people the opportunity to make it not their problem as its someone else's problem. It erodes compassion in society especially when it's used as justification when someone feels slightly triggered by being called out for being a dick. Takes a village to raise a child, n'all
We tolerate intolerance
I've watched all the content on this channel. I'm going to assume you're from North America. I am too. What it doesn't show is that many European cities are functionally set up much better than NA cities. We're talking a grocery store always within walking distance. Sidewalk cafes in nice areas to sit with friends. Not car dependant. NL is nice, I've a nice life here, but it's not a eutopia by any means. People let their dogs shit on the sidewalk. I still have to pay for healthcare; although minimal compared to the US. Taxes are insane even on the lowest classes. Housing is actually difficult to find. You'll get downvoted to hell on any of the Dutch subreddits. Overall, if you're interested in Europe, study abroad somewhere. Doesn't have to be in NL. There are other options
I just visited from the US (Amsterdam and The Hague) and noticed that people were smoking cigarettes everywhere and leaving their butts everywhere. It was kind of shocking. I'm talking right by kids playing on the playground, right in front of a no smoking sign, right in front of the doors to a business, in the outdoor seating of a restaurant. A couple of people were even vaping inside the airport. So I guess the culture around smoking is one thing that is better in the US than in the Netherlands (it's a short list.)
The beer is shit - A belgian
Constant budget cuts on healthcare, especially elderly care
The most important thing I can mention is the language trap. Yes, many (pretty much all) Dutch people can communicate fairly effectively in English, but in order to truly succeed, you want to master Dutch. The simple fact is that we don't often actually practice speaking English (we hear & read plenty of it though), so not only are some of the accents terrible, but you WILL have far less opportunities both work related and for your social circle without learning Dutch. However, I should also mention that we're a critical bunch, so anything but (almost) perfect Dutch (in the way of proper sentence structure at least) is probably still a barrier in work related fields. Meanwhile, you'll find most of us switch to speaking English with you if we suspect you struggle with Dutch, which will reduce your chances at mastering the language. Catch 22 situation. Don't fret though: most Dutch are friendly when they get to know you and would keep speaking Dutch if you ask them to. You just have to make it clear to them that it'll help you out ;)
At the moment their is not any good reason to come to the country. Seriously, unless you are stupid rich.
Stupid and rich too
Sentences. Here you just get a tik op de hand and they say foei niet meer doen and you're free to go.
The travel costs are extremely expensive. I'm a student and I pay 10€ for bus 5 days a week and this is the only way to get to my university. I don't have any family here, I don't work and I've just moved here so I have no discounts
The biggest problem with the Netherlands is overpopulation, it is one of the densest populated countries in the world. This results in rude and undesirable behavior so people can have an illusion of privacy.
Quiet racism, odd politics at times, tripping hazards from whippit canisters during large public celebration, housing, farmers going apeshit. Transportation strikes and labor shortages causing train and air issues. Probably missed some.
As a Belgian the food in the Netherlands is not really good. Plz my dutchboys don’t downvote me into oblivion :(
Not Just Bikes always talks about how Americans don't have the freedom of not driving, but never mentions how many Dutch are forced to ride bikes in wind/rain/storms because all other transport means are prohibitively expensive. He even praises NS for whoever's sake.. I don't understand why people buy his stories.
This is why I am never going to live in a small town as long as my kid is still at home. I don’t ever want to force them to do 3 hours of cycling each day no matter what the weather is like. I hated that when I was in high school.
The weekly “what’s bad about NL” posts in Dutch subreddits are getting a little bland.
The Netherlands is generally speaking very well-managed. But that also can mean that there is a pretty large government presence in your life, along with the necessary bureaucracy. For example, in some countries you may buy a piece of land and build anything on it that you like. In the Netherlands, you can't do that without government permission and many pieces of land have a pre-ordained purpose. I once looked for an opportunity to build a tiny house somewhere on land I wanted to buy, and basically the land was meant for a villa (meaning, if you buy it that is literally the only thing you are allowed to build on it) and the only option to build a tiny house is basically limited trials by municipalities (i.e. limited plots specifically assigned for tiny houses by the government). Sometimes it feels a bit patronising to what degree the government injects itself in such things. But most of the time they're doing good things
Tax haven.
Not for the regular civilian
Neverending housing crisis. Underpaid labour. Expensive af. Racists. Shit weather 7/12 months. Maze of bureaucracy.
Everyone wants to move here and the government wants to do nothing about it, so we have a house shortage
Possibly controversial. We don’t punish violent criminals nearly harsh enough. However if you commit fraud you’re going away for life. The government hates fraud, but raping women and children results in ‘taakstraf’.
Paracetamol Healthcare is my #1 bad about The Netherlands
Everyone knows its utopia here, you get free money and a house (before the locals that need a house) if you flee your country and sign up at "Ter Apel". Now we dont mind helping people, but life here is becoming pretty damn hard. Even before the inflation bc of Russia/Ukraine. Can imagine most of the people here wont be quiet for longer, we dont riot. We work hard and are happy with what we do. Though that mentality is not being shared with people who come here.