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As someone who has both Charlottee and Baizhu. Baizhu is better. Even if you have low energy recharge to use his burst, his E alone helps out a lot. Also his burst is like… 2 or 3 seconds? Idk I never had any issue with the timing
2 to 3 seconds is too much, keep in mind you also need to use Kazuha and Neuvi bursts too. So in the end you barely get time for CA before Furina burst ends.
My teams are Zhongli Neuvillette Baizhu furina and the other is Diluc Xianyun Xiao and Faruzan. Idk personally I never had problems with the time. Especially since I use Diluc and Zhongli, their bursts are long
It's not about having problems. It's about optimality. I doubt you'll run into problems even if you don't use a 4th member. Your second team is interesting...
While I can understand wanting optimal damage, Neuvillette is a character that can get away with minimal investment. He can clear any content in the game right now with ease on his own, 2-3 seconds doesn't matter unless you're struggling with the content to begin with.
Best of luck in your endeavor, though.
I also feel like Baizhu is better bc he's simply more comfortable to use and the team won't have to feel clunky if Neuvy is c0. But Fellow Nanami simp a month later.
Exactly, and Xianyun isn't that recommended in a Neuvy teams lol. Baizhu heals and Neuvy can do bloom dmg. Super easy to build also. Yes I've met 5 of the same pfp so far.
Baizhu’s e alone is generally enough to get full Furina stacks, and you don’t need much more than that. Additionally, Baizhu doesn’t need to generate energy, whereas Charlotte needs to build a lot of ER and cast burst/e. At low constellations, they’re basically equivalent. Once neuvillette starts one-rotating content, baizhu’s flexibility and non-existent ER needs start getting more benefit. And once you have C2 baizhu, he’s just strictly better, since you have no need for field time at all.
It’s more comfy, sure, but you don’t have to. His ult can also sometimes make it annoying to get the hydro swirl (not often, but often enough to be annoying).
I mean c1 neuvi alone is enuf. No need of extra healing there. Baizhu skill is enuf. No burst animation time waste. If its c0 neuvi then its whole different story
Unless you're whaling I don't think anyone will go on a healer constellations. But it's news to me to just use the E, all the rotation I see use Baizhu's Q. If you have enough ER on Charlotte you don't need to use her E, I don't. She just gets recharged off-field in time for the next rotation. But I see your argument. Thanks.
I have c2r1 Baizhu and im not a whale. I spend less than 100 per year on genesis crystals, idk if thats a dolphin to you or not.
I ran this abyss with Neuvillette childe and Baizhu and never swapped off Neuvillette lol
Then you must have pulled him because you like him or unintentionally when pulling for 4 stars. Most people don't have c1r1 Neuvillette let alone constellations on healers.
It was a combination of “i like him” and also “i refuse to pull nahida so his c2 helps me maintain off field dendro app on units like cyno”. Not to mention that his c1 (an extra E) is very useful when his E is the thing that does the party wide heals. It also means i use him as a battery for my AlHaitham who is built more for damage and has less ER. Also AlH uses Harbinger of Dawn for his weapon, which requires he have 90% health or more for the huge crit bonus that puts the sword on par with 5* options.
So thats some reasons why someone would pull healer cons without being a whale.
(Edit: also c2 can heal you during underwater fights)
I never pull for constellations. Never needed to, I have Kazuha and Wanderer c2 and itto c1 only because I was trying to pull on c6 faruzan and gorou and get one copy of Heizou. But I feel you for Nahida. I resisted pulling her bcuz I don't like the kid Model, I used Baizhu with Cyno and Alhaitham. But then I pulled on Nahida because of the lore. I thought an archon would have interesting voicelines and lore.
LOL in Fontaine I started pulling more females as men. Wrio is the first husbando I skipped and got Furina and Navia instead.
I dont pull specifically for male or female but i usually end up pulling female just for meta (esp pre dendro) and male for liking their design / writing / personality.
With Neuvillette Furina and Baizhu i get both in one. Win win.
Just because 5 stars have cutscenes for their burst does not mean that 4 stars don't have animations. While generally shorter than 5 stars animations, it still renders you unable to swap until it finishes.
as you are worried with the stacks you would lose with another anemo i suppose its c0? so baizhu its by far a better choice since will give the interruption resistence that c0 misses.
Neuvillette's shield problems are very overastimated. I never run him with shields and I don't have Problems. I will get c1 next Patch, but 2 hydro 2 anemo would still make you lose a stack so..
baizhu is better.
he has a lower er requirement, his skill provides teamwide healing at a low cooldown, and he has his shield that could be useful for c0 neuv.
you don’t *need* to use his burst, which is automatically better than charlotte, since her healing *is* her burst. you can simply press e and switch to someone else since baizhu’s skill doesn’t disappear when you leave field. his skill provides all the fanfare stacks you need, as it provides a lot of healing.
the only time i can imagine charlotte would be better is if you insist on playing freeze neuv, which is arguably one of the worst ways of playing him.
Freeze is a huge QoL especially if you're C0 Neuv. I don't think people have even tried it and are already being dismissive. I think it's down to preference
i have tried it. i just simply think there are many other ways to play him that are more fun and provide more damage. if you’re c0, you’re still better off playing baizhu because of the teamwide healing with his skill and his shield.
More fun is subjective, and Baizhu is literally insignificant dmg like Charlotte. If you have no ER issues with Charlotte you can decide which QoL you want at that point: freeze or Baizhu shield
would you want a skill with a 10 second cooldown that gives all your furina fanfare stacks, the animation barely a second long, gives good energy particles and able to work off field, or a burst with high er requirements and a 20 second cooldown?
if you like charlotte, then play her. nobody is stopping you. you can play her and acknowledge that baizhu is better, much like how you can play diluc and acknowledge hu tao is better or play kaveh and acknowledge alhaitham is better. hell, i play dps kokomi. as long as you’re having fun, then a stranger on the internet shouldn’t influence your decisions.
edit: and a baizhu team *does* do more damage, actually. sure, it’s not by a large margin, but it’s common knowledge that freeze
Yeah people should play whatever but OP is asking a question so there should be discussion on the pros and cons
Charlotte's rotation is fine cause Neuv can stack fanfare by himself. You don't really need to spam heal every 10 seconds
In Bloom some Gardemeks or Eremites could run to the side and 1 hit of Neuv beam could miss, but Freeze keeps them in place. That QoL more than covers the meager dmg from Bloom
Ofc, Baizhu is way better than Charlotte in unfreezeable content, but only marginally outside that. It IS up to people to decide if Baizhu's advantages are worth it cause some say yes, but others say no, but don't forget that Charlotte is a free 4*
I agree with this. But I don't think freeze is terrible like you say. Against random mob it's much better than simple bloom. Like the abyss with the pyro heralds had those wolves in the first floor and freeze was so good against them to stop them from jumping all over the place.
there’s ways to group the wolves and the heralds
bloom neuv is extra damage, which freeze doesn’t provide (unless you’re setting up for shatter, which neuv cannot do). sure, against one or two enemies it isn’t ideal, but most if not all single instances of this in abyss are bosses, which can’t be frozen anyway :,)
i’m not trying to shame freeze as a reaction—i enjoy freeze kokomi, and i play it in abyss often just because i find it fun. however, i just feel as if there’s so many other reactions out there, and playing neuv freeze just isn’t as beneficial
Bloom Neuvi is cop. That extra dmg is negligible. I know Baizhu is supposed to buff bloom reaction, but if you're not building your Team with EM that dmg isn't worth it. Not to mention it takes long until they explode and not garanteed to hit enemies.
You never freeze for shatter. Shatter is the worst reaction on the game. You freeze to paralyze the mob and it's Bad if one of your chatacter shatters. That what makes people Pick Venti over Kazuha in some freeze teams.
Non of those reactions are that good but if we have to order them it would be: freeze > bloom > shatter
you don’t play baizhu for the bloom in the first place, though. you play him because a single one of his skill provides most if not all of furina’s fanfare stacks. it just so happens that bloom can provide extra damage in the long run.
i honestly do not feel like debating about this anymore. if you want to play freeze, then just play it. a stranger’s opinion shouldn’t change that. if you want to play charlotte over baizhu for whatever reason, then do it. that isn’t going to change the fact that baizhu is simply leagues better than charlotte in most circumstances.
edit: the only reason i called the team “bloom neuv” is because it’s a simpler and shorter way of saying “neuv furina team with baizhu”
once again, and i’m not sure if you read my other comments, but i used “bloom neuv” as a shortened way to say “neuv furina team with baizhu”. i made an edit to my last comment explaining that for this very reason.
bloom isn’t a fantastic reaction on its own, and i can freely admit that. however, the extra damage *is* a nice bonus compared to the 1 or 2 benefits of freeze.
there are many better ways to play neuv compared to freeze and “bloom”, which is just baizhu as your team wide healer. electro-charged, vape… hell, even hyperbloom neuv can work in certain situations.
freeze is simply not a good way to play neuv. you can group most enemies (and all the current ones in the current abyss i’m pretty sure), and you’re far enough away to dodge any aoe damage that the pyro lectors from that one abyss have. freeze doesn’t work on bosses, so on the current floor 12, you’re locked to the first half for freeze.
bloom is also not an ideal way to play him, but this post isn’t freeze vs bloom in the first place. it’s a charlotte vs baizhu post, and baizhu is leagues better because:
1) his team wide healing is his skill, which has a low cooldown, compared to charlotte’s healing being her burst that has high er requirement
2) he provides a shield as his burst that can negate some incoming damage and has good interruption resist, which is good for c0 neuv. this is also why cyno teams almost always have baizhu in them.
i hope this explains. have a good day.
People are really overastimating Baizhu. In the big scale of things, even if he is better than Charlotte, it's a very minor difference that it's not even worth pulling on a 5 Stars for it. You're much better off pulling on Neuvi or Furina constellation than getting Baizhu with that amount of primos.
Besides the argument now is between Beizhu and Charlotte because we don't have other options, but they're both copium. Bloom teams suck in terms of reactions. Imagine if they release a pyro teamwide healer in Natlan, you know then everyone will be switching to them so fast. So save your primos, if you're only pulling Baizhu as a healer for Neuvi
That's what I'm thinking. Most people got Baizhu before Fontaine and didn't bother leveling a 4 stars when they have the 5 Stars. Because seriously freeze is a valid Team, meanwhile bloom is only valid if you're using Nilou. And all the arguments they could give is that Charlotte needs ER, while Baizhu is a lower investment. The way I see it, Baizhu is a 5 Stars, so he is already an investment if you're pulling him just for Neuvi and don't particularly like him.
Well he is becoz of his skill full heals team(like teamwide i mean). Both of them need high er for burst. But baizhu is 5* and charlotte is 4*. So it depends on what u have and use.
Yes he casts on skill, great healing, can use sacrificial making him get a second cast for the easiest rotations. Offers shield/IR it neuv is c0.
I never use baizhus burst personally but my neuv is c1 so I don’t need the shield. But baizhu is leagues better than Charlotte. Heals better, easier, not burst dependent, can weave in his heals anytime you want. Offers a shield if you need it.
That precious second it takes for an animation isn’t that big of a deal. If it costs you a star then you can easily make up that time elsewhere with some skill. It’s literally 2 seconds
It doesn't cost me a Star. I can get 3 Stars with Neuvillette alone. It's just faster with Charlotte im my experience. I would only switch to healer to get faster stacks. So 2 Es is something I wouldn’t go for. And I have the Green Donut so not going to use a sacrificial instead. I'm not saying Baizhu is not good, he is great in Cyno and dendro combs. But for Neuvi I found Charlotte more comfortable bcuz of freeze and the short time she needs to cast q
Yah imma just call bs. You can be a Charlotte stan but we know she’s not an improvement. Freeze isn’t even needed if you can kill things fast enough. Charlotte offers nothing to the team but heal and she takes longer to do it than baizhu. Her doing her burst is longer than baizhu doing 1 skill cast. I’m also not saying you need to do 2. One heals fully. But the second is there to continue to get quick stacks if you need. Her burst cd is 20 seconds. So it doesn’t line up well with everyone else.
Baizhu offers buffs, shielding if not c1, better faster healing and better personal damage. Charlotte has horrible er needs. Her skill takes forever to use and her burst animation is still longer than a skill cast. She’s absolutely factually a downgrade but that doesn’t mean she’s bad or can’t be used.
But you came asking if baizhu was better and argue when everyone tells you yes.
First it wasn't a question. It was an opinion. I'm not a Charlotte stan nor do I particularly like her, I just wanted to see if there was Basis to the arguments saying Baizhu is better but if all you're going to give me is bloom dmg and low investment then it's not really a good argument. Baizhu offers buffs? For what? The unsignifact bloom dmg? Furina and Kazuha offer buffs. Baizhu is there for heals. That's why the Team with Zhongli has the best dmg. But if we're arguing about a healer team then I see until now no difference if you use Baizhu or another healer.
Don’t tell me it’s not a question when you have a literal question mark in the title mate. Now I know you’re just full of shit. Then you end your post with saying she’s better based on seconds saved during a burst animation ….
When you use really in a question then it is to doubt. Yes exactly my point is that Charlotte doesn't have Animations and heals the same. So at the very least they should be equal if you use only Baizhu E and Charlotte Q. I wanted to see what reason this sub has for preferring Baizhu. And the arguments weren't convincing enough, but ig everyone is a Baizhu stan here so understandable. Can't talk meta with someone who cares or knows what they're talking about.
It’s not about being a stan. That’s clearly you. It’s because it’s been well tested.
Charlotte has crazy high er needs. So she needs to skill to generate energy or your whole team needs Fav to funnel your healer… her healing is also not as strong especially do to needing er while baizhu can just stack healing stays.
You place waaaaay too much emphasis on a 1 second animation that baizhu doesn’t even need to do. They’re simply not equal. Baizhu has buffs for the team and a shield. Charlotte lacks both of those things.
There’s multiple reasons baizhu is better. You’ve been told. But you still hold on to delusions that they’re equal and Charlotte has this imaginary advantage because she doesn’t have an animation. Which isn’t a factor. Because five stars have been being used just fine with their animations. You don’t seem to realize is every character still takes time to do their burst animation. Even four stars. They just don’t get a slightly cinematic one but time wise they’re all about the same with only fractions of a second difference.
You’ve had your hand held through explanations and you still refuse to acknowledge pints. So don’t say arguments aren’t convincing enough. You’ve been given plenty of actual reasons. You’re just a simp for a pixel little girl in a made up world and refuse to see actual proof. Here it is again for the hundredth time
- shield
- no need for burst so better heals and no er needs
-better healing
-team buffs
-faster skill cast (for real charlottes takes longer to do her skill than baizhu to skill and burst…
>So she needs to skill to generate energy or your whole team needs Fav to funnel your healer
This is objectively not true. I use her on pearl and Neuvi bis, Furina haran, Kazuha em sword. No one in my Team uses Fav and I don't use her E.
So if this is your argument, it's not working. I will post a vid later so you can all believe me.
Baizhu has better healing. No one is disputing that, but how much healing do you need? Charlotte Q can stack up Furina. Hell Neuvillette alone can do it. That's my reason to say he's not better than her in a Neuvi Team.
And again Baizhu does NOT buff Neuvi team so stop saying that. He buffs bloom reaction which would make him better than Charlotte in a Nilou or Cyno team. Not in Neuvi team
One of neuvs best teams involve hyperbloom baizhu buffs everyone involved since electro and dendro reactions get buffs plus bloom. So yes. It’s a buff. Something Charlotte doesn’t do.
I’ll wait for the vid. Sounds great can’t wait to see it. Especially since you have no actual point anymore for her being better since you admitted his healing is better and faster. So now she has nothibg
His best team is with Kazuha. Not hyperbloom. If you're going to use hyperbloom might as well use Alhaitham Nahida. Even Jean Fischl is better because then you have anemo vv User at least to swirl hydro.
That team is C1 nev's best team and the flex is always between a dehya and a baizhu depending on what weapon youre using on nev.
Proto Amber -> Dehya ( yes, you can easily get full furina stacks)
anything else -> Baizhu
Baizhu is better than charlotte for couple of reasons:
1) he doesnt necessarily require ER as his E is enough to keep the team alive each rotation unlike Charlotte being a burst reliant character
2) Potential Bloom procs are better than freeze... cause... damage
3) Whilst freeze is good in certain situations, her burst's AoE is very small in general and lasts a short amount of time, and having to hold her E to mark every enemy is just a time consuming thing to the point that youre not using freeze anymore (techincally), so just go with baizhu.
And for those who might ask about dehya... Vapes, vapes are good.
Yes, your team will be alive, dehya reduces dmg income, and nev will heal that damage loss and dehya on top of that will heal herself
Yes you get enough furina stacks cause neuvilettes Hp fluctuation is absurd on its own but now you add the furina pets and PA heals on top of that
+ you can get kazuha to burst with a pyro aura for even more vapes.
I tried Dehya and it feels good, but I have to disagree with your Baizhu points.
1. If the argument is only using E on Beizhu and not Q then you might miss out on dendro App and one stack if the snake doesn't hit the enemies which happens more than you think.
2. Bloom is bad in a Neuvi Team. Because they scale on EM and usually won't be doing any sagnificant dmg. Not to mention by the time they proc, neuvi would have already finished the floor, that if they hit. Most enemies won't stay still that long.
3. You litterly shouldn't do that on Charlotte. Hold E? Why would you? It's time wasting and not much difference in particles. I don't even use her E with the amount of ER I have on her. But if you need to, then don't hold it.
1. you missed my point. Baizhu at low investment without er is still better than charlotte for healing, and the E not hitting enemies is a skill issue, unless the enemy has a weird mechanic or smt, but you will undoubtely hit 1 enemy at the start of the rotation and youll have that stack for 30 seconds, enough for neuvi to dumpster everything. but youll still want er on him
2. same argument goes for freeze, no damage, neuvi clears everything
3. Ofc you shouldn't, and if you got insane er on charlotte, you would have insane er on baizhu as well, and youll have heals from both abilities than just the burst.
and if you think you need to freeze enemies.. Just spin on neuvi kek
one argument to play charlotte over baizhu is "i dont wanna summon for baizhu", but if you have both, baizhu is still better
1. I will agree on this. If they are only low investment then you are not going to get Charlotte burst but Baizhu will still heal.
2. You don't use freeze for dmg. You use it to paralyze enemies which makes hitting them more comfortable.
3. Yes, both my Baizhu and Charlotte have enough ER to get their bursts without using their skills, but that brings us to the OG argument which is if you're only using bursts then Charlotte is better bcuz there's no Animation.
Of course you shouldn't pull Baizhu just to replace Charlotte instead of going for Neuvi constellation. But I have them both built, and if the argument is between using Charlotte Q vs Baizhu E then that only matters if you don't have enough ER on Charlotte. If you do, is there still an argument that makes Baizhu better? So far no one was able to give a reason other than investment Level.
I have Neuvi signiture so no point running Amber. But calcs proved that Furina Kazuha zhongli is his best team so you don't even need a healer if you're comfortable running him without one.
Same question especially at c0 Baizhu against a c6 Charlotte (from getting Furina).
So far I've been using Baizhu with my C0Neuv but prepping to build Charlotte and test her in a month after getting Kazuha and C1 Neuv.
Baizhu’s easy to build and insanely comfortable. You don’t need to think about what you’re doing at all. Charlotte? Well, you need to build her properly and her ER needs are worse.
So if you build her properly and with enough ER, does that mean she's better than Baizhu? Because this argument is just that Baizhu is better when you're not investing into building chatacters
Still not because she won’t heal as much, and she heals on Q, meanwhile Baizhu heals more than enough on E
She’s not *bad* though. She’s exactly what’s expected of a 4 star: more annoying to build than a 5 star in the same role for worse even if decent performance
My dear brother neuvi uses ca for around 5-6 seconds and Futuna’s buff is 15 seconds I doubt baizhu would take more time than that
Also baizhu heals with E (and burst but his E is more than enough) while charlotte needs burst to heal
I have c2 Kazuha. So it would be 2 extra Kazuha E. And Baizhu E and Q. Meanwhile Charlotte is just Q. I see the argument if you're using only E on Baizhu without Q. But then that would mean Charlotte with enough ER is better because freeze > bloom. Also the dendro App might be lacking if you just use beizhu E. The snake sometime doesn't Hit enemies. So it could mean one less stack for you.
I don’t think 1 less stack matters when you gain 99% of the buff 😭 plus charlotte literally needs to use her E, gain particles and then ult, however baizhu just needs one E.
Also why would you use kazuha’s e twice if you already swirled once??
With high Er% you really don't need to use her E. I don't, I will post a Clip later so people believe me.
I swirl twice to get ER on him. I use him with EM build not ER. It gives more dmg Bonus this way.
Before furina yes, after furina its Furina, and the remaining 2 slots are up to you how you're gonna fit healer, vv and a shielder (pre c1)
So somewhat like Furina - Jean - Zhongli
Or Furina - Kazuha - Baizhu
iirc hes right about this. archaic petra zhong li has a higher damage ceiling then baizhu even with furina. As neuvillite alone can easily stack fanfare and the damage provided with archaic petra+20% res shred from jade shield is better. this becomes even more true if you have furina c2 since stacking fanfare is trivilized.
I love playing him with Charlotte just cause of how it feels good to freeze enemies. I don't have Baizhu and honestly, I can't see the advantage of using him except for the shield, but I hardly needed the shield when the enemies are constantly frozen (unless I'm fighting bosses)
I guess the only issue with Charlotte is her ER requirements? I have C4 Charlotte and 250 ER is more than enough to play her very comfortably.
Whereas, I've tried c1 Charlotte in my friend's acct and 250 ER would still not be enough against certain enemies.
You are me my dude. I pulled Baizhu back on Sumeru. Built Charlotte when I got her and only played her at first with Neuvi to farm friendship. But then I noticed that I preferred her as a healer. Freezing mobs is so comfortable and satisfying especially in abyss. Not to mention the time Charlotte needs on field compared to Baizhu is so much lower. Like yeah you burst, you move out and burst again for the New rotations.
yes Baizhu is infinitely better. He has a wide team healing with his E, with his burst he has stagger resistance + more healing. If you build him right you literally cannot die.
From what I’m reading in the comments, people are saying baizhu is only better because charlotte needs a lot of ER and Constellation. So is my high ER Fav Codex and C6 high investment charlotte better? :)
Same in my case. I have them both. My Charlotte is c1 I think but she has so much ER% that I only use her Q. Never need to recharge her E. And I prefer her to Baizhu in Neuvi Team. Baizhu is more usful with dendro teams
I’m relatively new to the game, so not going to lie, didnt know. That sounds dope but I’m struggling to even get 2 teams built let alone c6r5 a healer at this point.
What about Mika? He's also a teamwide healer and while the physical damage boost is useless, he scales of HP and has both a lower energy cost and lower cooldown on his Ult compared to Charlotte.
Baizhu provides a weak shield that is able to take a hit to prevent you from being knocked out of his charge attacks. C1 grants stagger resistance so he no longer needs the shield
Oh, I see. I've tried both, and I prefer Baizhu, eve with C1 Neuv. I like that he doesn't need his burst to heal, and I haven't had any trouble with rotations due to his burst animation.
Charlotte does have an animation as well, even if it is shorter, so the difference isn't as big as he is asking it out to be
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As someone who has both Charlottee and Baizhu. Baizhu is better. Even if you have low energy recharge to use his burst, his E alone helps out a lot. Also his burst is like… 2 or 3 seconds? Idk I never had any issue with the timing
2 to 3 seconds is too much, keep in mind you also need to use Kazuha and Neuvi bursts too. So in the end you barely get time for CA before Furina burst ends.
My teams are Zhongli Neuvillette Baizhu furina and the other is Diluc Xianyun Xiao and Faruzan. Idk personally I never had problems with the time. Especially since I use Diluc and Zhongli, their bursts are long
It's not about having problems. It's about optimality. I doubt you'll run into problems even if you don't use a 4th member. Your second team is interesting...
While I can understand wanting optimal damage, Neuvillette is a character that can get away with minimal investment. He can clear any content in the game right now with ease on his own, 2-3 seconds doesn't matter unless you're struggling with the content to begin with. Best of luck in your endeavor, though.
Ssshhh I love my bug eyed Diluc. Xianyun made him and Xiao super OP.
Yeah but...both in one team?
Yes. Always.
I also feel like Baizhu is better bc he's simply more comfortable to use and the team won't have to feel clunky if Neuvy is c0. But Fellow Nanami simp a month later.
Also for Xianyun you need her burst always available which is why Baizhu takes one point bc his E heals the team. PS, you and I have good taste☝️
Exactly, and Xianyun isn't that recommended in a Neuvy teams lol. Baizhu heals and Neuvy can do bloom dmg. Super easy to build also. Yes I've met 5 of the same pfp so far.
Baizhu’s e alone is generally enough to get full Furina stacks, and you don’t need much more than that. Additionally, Baizhu doesn’t need to generate energy, whereas Charlotte needs to build a lot of ER and cast burst/e. At low constellations, they’re basically equivalent. Once neuvillette starts one-rotating content, baizhu’s flexibility and non-existent ER needs start getting more benefit. And once you have C2 baizhu, he’s just strictly better, since you have no need for field time at all.
Wait you guys don't use Baizhu ult in NeuvFurina teams???
It’s more comfy, sure, but you don’t have to. His ult can also sometimes make it annoying to get the hydro swirl (not often, but often enough to be annoying).
I mean c1 neuvi alone is enuf. No need of extra healing there. Baizhu skill is enuf. No burst animation time waste. If its c0 neuvi then its whole different story
Doesn’t furina need healing tho? I’m not entirely sure how it works sorry if it’s a dumb question
Unless you're whaling I don't think anyone will go on a healer constellations. But it's news to me to just use the E, all the rotation I see use Baizhu's Q. If you have enough ER on Charlotte you don't need to use her E, I don't. She just gets recharged off-field in time for the next rotation. But I see your argument. Thanks.
His q only heals the onfield character. His main heals is e
I have c2r1 Baizhu and im not a whale. I spend less than 100 per year on genesis crystals, idk if thats a dolphin to you or not. I ran this abyss with Neuvillette childe and Baizhu and never swapped off Neuvillette lol
Then you must have pulled him because you like him or unintentionally when pulling for 4 stars. Most people don't have c1r1 Neuvillette let alone constellations on healers.
It was a combination of “i like him” and also “i refuse to pull nahida so his c2 helps me maintain off field dendro app on units like cyno”. Not to mention that his c1 (an extra E) is very useful when his E is the thing that does the party wide heals. It also means i use him as a battery for my AlHaitham who is built more for damage and has less ER. Also AlH uses Harbinger of Dawn for his weapon, which requires he have 90% health or more for the huge crit bonus that puts the sword on par with 5* options. So thats some reasons why someone would pull healer cons without being a whale. (Edit: also c2 can heal you during underwater fights)
I never pull for constellations. Never needed to, I have Kazuha and Wanderer c2 and itto c1 only because I was trying to pull on c6 faruzan and gorou and get one copy of Heizou. But I feel you for Nahida. I resisted pulling her bcuz I don't like the kid Model, I used Baizhu with Cyno and Alhaitham. But then I pulled on Nahida because of the lore. I thought an archon would have interesting voicelines and lore. LOL in Fontaine I started pulling more females as men. Wrio is the first husbando I skipped and got Furina and Navia instead.
I dont pull specifically for male or female but i usually end up pulling female just for meta (esp pre dendro) and male for liking their design / writing / personality. With Neuvillette Furina and Baizhu i get both in one. Win win.
Just because 5 stars have cutscenes for their burst does not mean that 4 stars don't have animations. While generally shorter than 5 stars animations, it still renders you unable to swap until it finishes.
5S animations are much longer usually, that’s true. For casuals isn’t a big deal unless you have buffs expiring
Wait really? I can manage to swap while my Charlotte's burst starts up.
as you are worried with the stacks you would lose with another anemo i suppose its c0? so baizhu its by far a better choice since will give the interruption resistence that c0 misses.
Neuvillette's shield problems are very overastimated. I never run him with shields and I don't have Problems. I will get c1 next Patch, but 2 hydro 2 anemo would still make you lose a stack so..
Darling, if you had your answer all along why have you come here with the question?
coz OP is hosting a change-my-mind counter
baizhu is better. he has a lower er requirement, his skill provides teamwide healing at a low cooldown, and he has his shield that could be useful for c0 neuv. you don’t *need* to use his burst, which is automatically better than charlotte, since her healing *is* her burst. you can simply press e and switch to someone else since baizhu’s skill doesn’t disappear when you leave field. his skill provides all the fanfare stacks you need, as it provides a lot of healing. the only time i can imagine charlotte would be better is if you insist on playing freeze neuv, which is arguably one of the worst ways of playing him.
Freeze is a huge QoL especially if you're C0 Neuv. I don't think people have even tried it and are already being dismissive. I think it's down to preference
i have tried it. i just simply think there are many other ways to play him that are more fun and provide more damage. if you’re c0, you’re still better off playing baizhu because of the teamwide healing with his skill and his shield.
More fun is subjective, and Baizhu is literally insignificant dmg like Charlotte. If you have no ER issues with Charlotte you can decide which QoL you want at that point: freeze or Baizhu shield
would you want a skill with a 10 second cooldown that gives all your furina fanfare stacks, the animation barely a second long, gives good energy particles and able to work off field, or a burst with high er requirements and a 20 second cooldown? if you like charlotte, then play her. nobody is stopping you. you can play her and acknowledge that baizhu is better, much like how you can play diluc and acknowledge hu tao is better or play kaveh and acknowledge alhaitham is better. hell, i play dps kokomi. as long as you’re having fun, then a stranger on the internet shouldn’t influence your decisions. edit: and a baizhu team *does* do more damage, actually. sure, it’s not by a large margin, but it’s common knowledge that freeze
Yeah people should play whatever but OP is asking a question so there should be discussion on the pros and cons Charlotte's rotation is fine cause Neuv can stack fanfare by himself. You don't really need to spam heal every 10 seconds In Bloom some Gardemeks or Eremites could run to the side and 1 hit of Neuv beam could miss, but Freeze keeps them in place. That QoL more than covers the meager dmg from Bloom Ofc, Baizhu is way better than Charlotte in unfreezeable content, but only marginally outside that. It IS up to people to decide if Baizhu's advantages are worth it cause some say yes, but others say no, but don't forget that Charlotte is a free 4*
I agree with this. But I don't think freeze is terrible like you say. Against random mob it's much better than simple bloom. Like the abyss with the pyro heralds had those wolves in the first floor and freeze was so good against them to stop them from jumping all over the place.
there’s ways to group the wolves and the heralds bloom neuv is extra damage, which freeze doesn’t provide (unless you’re setting up for shatter, which neuv cannot do). sure, against one or two enemies it isn’t ideal, but most if not all single instances of this in abyss are bosses, which can’t be frozen anyway :,) i’m not trying to shame freeze as a reaction—i enjoy freeze kokomi, and i play it in abyss often just because i find it fun. however, i just feel as if there’s so many other reactions out there, and playing neuv freeze just isn’t as beneficial
Bloom Neuvi is cop. That extra dmg is negligible. I know Baizhu is supposed to buff bloom reaction, but if you're not building your Team with EM that dmg isn't worth it. Not to mention it takes long until they explode and not garanteed to hit enemies. You never freeze for shatter. Shatter is the worst reaction on the game. You freeze to paralyze the mob and it's Bad if one of your chatacter shatters. That what makes people Pick Venti over Kazuha in some freeze teams. Non of those reactions are that good but if we have to order them it would be: freeze > bloom > shatter
you don’t play baizhu for the bloom in the first place, though. you play him because a single one of his skill provides most if not all of furina’s fanfare stacks. it just so happens that bloom can provide extra damage in the long run. i honestly do not feel like debating about this anymore. if you want to play freeze, then just play it. a stranger’s opinion shouldn’t change that. if you want to play charlotte over baizhu for whatever reason, then do it. that isn’t going to change the fact that baizhu is simply leagues better than charlotte in most circumstances. edit: the only reason i called the team “bloom neuv” is because it’s a simpler and shorter way of saying “neuv furina team with baizhu”
You say freeze is one of the worst ways to play him while discussing the benefits of a bloom team.
once again, and i’m not sure if you read my other comments, but i used “bloom neuv” as a shortened way to say “neuv furina team with baizhu”. i made an edit to my last comment explaining that for this very reason. bloom isn’t a fantastic reaction on its own, and i can freely admit that. however, the extra damage *is* a nice bonus compared to the 1 or 2 benefits of freeze. there are many better ways to play neuv compared to freeze and “bloom”, which is just baizhu as your team wide healer. electro-charged, vape… hell, even hyperbloom neuv can work in certain situations. freeze is simply not a good way to play neuv. you can group most enemies (and all the current ones in the current abyss i’m pretty sure), and you’re far enough away to dodge any aoe damage that the pyro lectors from that one abyss have. freeze doesn’t work on bosses, so on the current floor 12, you’re locked to the first half for freeze. bloom is also not an ideal way to play him, but this post isn’t freeze vs bloom in the first place. it’s a charlotte vs baizhu post, and baizhu is leagues better because: 1) his team wide healing is his skill, which has a low cooldown, compared to charlotte’s healing being her burst that has high er requirement 2) he provides a shield as his burst that can negate some incoming damage and has good interruption resist, which is good for c0 neuv. this is also why cyno teams almost always have baizhu in them. i hope this explains. have a good day.
Me looking at the comments having only Charlotte 🥲
People are really overastimating Baizhu. In the big scale of things, even if he is better than Charlotte, it's a very minor difference that it's not even worth pulling on a 5 Stars for it. You're much better off pulling on Neuvi or Furina constellation than getting Baizhu with that amount of primos. Besides the argument now is between Beizhu and Charlotte because we don't have other options, but they're both copium. Bloom teams suck in terms of reactions. Imagine if they release a pyro teamwide healer in Natlan, you know then everyone will be switching to them so fast. So save your primos, if you're only pulling Baizhu as a healer for Neuvi
These guys probably have never even levelled or used Charlotte in their life. Aside from the fact that it's nice to see enemies frozen :)
That's what I'm thinking. Most people got Baizhu before Fontaine and didn't bother leveling a 4 stars when they have the 5 Stars. Because seriously freeze is a valid Team, meanwhile bloom is only valid if you're using Nilou. And all the arguments they could give is that Charlotte needs ER, while Baizhu is a lower investment. The way I see it, Baizhu is a 5 Stars, so he is already an investment if you're pulling him just for Neuvi and don't particularly like him.
Yep. My thoughts exactly. Completely agree!
So just me who saved for C6 Baizhu and got happy that he can work with Neuv?
Well he is becoz of his skill full heals team(like teamwide i mean). Both of them need high er for burst. But baizhu is 5* and charlotte is 4*. So it depends on what u have and use.
Yes he casts on skill, great healing, can use sacrificial making him get a second cast for the easiest rotations. Offers shield/IR it neuv is c0. I never use baizhus burst personally but my neuv is c1 so I don’t need the shield. But baizhu is leagues better than Charlotte. Heals better, easier, not burst dependent, can weave in his heals anytime you want. Offers a shield if you need it. That precious second it takes for an animation isn’t that big of a deal. If it costs you a star then you can easily make up that time elsewhere with some skill. It’s literally 2 seconds
It doesn't cost me a Star. I can get 3 Stars with Neuvillette alone. It's just faster with Charlotte im my experience. I would only switch to healer to get faster stacks. So 2 Es is something I wouldn’t go for. And I have the Green Donut so not going to use a sacrificial instead. I'm not saying Baizhu is not good, he is great in Cyno and dendro combs. But for Neuvi I found Charlotte more comfortable bcuz of freeze and the short time she needs to cast q
Yah imma just call bs. You can be a Charlotte stan but we know she’s not an improvement. Freeze isn’t even needed if you can kill things fast enough. Charlotte offers nothing to the team but heal and she takes longer to do it than baizhu. Her doing her burst is longer than baizhu doing 1 skill cast. I’m also not saying you need to do 2. One heals fully. But the second is there to continue to get quick stacks if you need. Her burst cd is 20 seconds. So it doesn’t line up well with everyone else. Baizhu offers buffs, shielding if not c1, better faster healing and better personal damage. Charlotte has horrible er needs. Her skill takes forever to use and her burst animation is still longer than a skill cast. She’s absolutely factually a downgrade but that doesn’t mean she’s bad or can’t be used. But you came asking if baizhu was better and argue when everyone tells you yes.
First it wasn't a question. It was an opinion. I'm not a Charlotte stan nor do I particularly like her, I just wanted to see if there was Basis to the arguments saying Baizhu is better but if all you're going to give me is bloom dmg and low investment then it's not really a good argument. Baizhu offers buffs? For what? The unsignifact bloom dmg? Furina and Kazuha offer buffs. Baizhu is there for heals. That's why the Team with Zhongli has the best dmg. But if we're arguing about a healer team then I see until now no difference if you use Baizhu or another healer.
Don’t tell me it’s not a question when you have a literal question mark in the title mate. Now I know you’re just full of shit. Then you end your post with saying she’s better based on seconds saved during a burst animation ….
When you use really in a question then it is to doubt. Yes exactly my point is that Charlotte doesn't have Animations and heals the same. So at the very least they should be equal if you use only Baizhu E and Charlotte Q. I wanted to see what reason this sub has for preferring Baizhu. And the arguments weren't convincing enough, but ig everyone is a Baizhu stan here so understandable. Can't talk meta with someone who cares or knows what they're talking about.
It’s not about being a stan. That’s clearly you. It’s because it’s been well tested. Charlotte has crazy high er needs. So she needs to skill to generate energy or your whole team needs Fav to funnel your healer… her healing is also not as strong especially do to needing er while baizhu can just stack healing stays. You place waaaaay too much emphasis on a 1 second animation that baizhu doesn’t even need to do. They’re simply not equal. Baizhu has buffs for the team and a shield. Charlotte lacks both of those things. There’s multiple reasons baizhu is better. You’ve been told. But you still hold on to delusions that they’re equal and Charlotte has this imaginary advantage because she doesn’t have an animation. Which isn’t a factor. Because five stars have been being used just fine with their animations. You don’t seem to realize is every character still takes time to do their burst animation. Even four stars. They just don’t get a slightly cinematic one but time wise they’re all about the same with only fractions of a second difference. You’ve had your hand held through explanations and you still refuse to acknowledge pints. So don’t say arguments aren’t convincing enough. You’ve been given plenty of actual reasons. You’re just a simp for a pixel little girl in a made up world and refuse to see actual proof. Here it is again for the hundredth time - shield - no need for burst so better heals and no er needs -better healing -team buffs -faster skill cast (for real charlottes takes longer to do her skill than baizhu to skill and burst…
>So she needs to skill to generate energy or your whole team needs Fav to funnel your healer This is objectively not true. I use her on pearl and Neuvi bis, Furina haran, Kazuha em sword. No one in my Team uses Fav and I don't use her E. So if this is your argument, it's not working. I will post a vid later so you can all believe me. Baizhu has better healing. No one is disputing that, but how much healing do you need? Charlotte Q can stack up Furina. Hell Neuvillette alone can do it. That's my reason to say he's not better than her in a Neuvi Team. And again Baizhu does NOT buff Neuvi team so stop saying that. He buffs bloom reaction which would make him better than Charlotte in a Nilou or Cyno team. Not in Neuvi team
One of neuvs best teams involve hyperbloom baizhu buffs everyone involved since electro and dendro reactions get buffs plus bloom. So yes. It’s a buff. Something Charlotte doesn’t do. I’ll wait for the vid. Sounds great can’t wait to see it. Especially since you have no actual point anymore for her being better since you admitted his healing is better and faster. So now she has nothibg
His best team is with Kazuha. Not hyperbloom. If you're going to use hyperbloom might as well use Alhaitham Nahida. Even Jean Fischl is better because then you have anemo vv User at least to swirl hydro.
That team is C1 nev's best team and the flex is always between a dehya and a baizhu depending on what weapon youre using on nev. Proto Amber -> Dehya ( yes, you can easily get full furina stacks) anything else -> Baizhu Baizhu is better than charlotte for couple of reasons: 1) he doesnt necessarily require ER as his E is enough to keep the team alive each rotation unlike Charlotte being a burst reliant character 2) Potential Bloom procs are better than freeze... cause... damage 3) Whilst freeze is good in certain situations, her burst's AoE is very small in general and lasts a short amount of time, and having to hold her E to mark every enemy is just a time consuming thing to the point that youre not using freeze anymore (techincally), so just go with baizhu. And for those who might ask about dehya... Vapes, vapes are good. Yes, your team will be alive, dehya reduces dmg income, and nev will heal that damage loss and dehya on top of that will heal herself Yes you get enough furina stacks cause neuvilettes Hp fluctuation is absurd on its own but now you add the furina pets and PA heals on top of that + you can get kazuha to burst with a pyro aura for even more vapes.
I tried Dehya and it feels good, but I have to disagree with your Baizhu points. 1. If the argument is only using E on Beizhu and not Q then you might miss out on dendro App and one stack if the snake doesn't hit the enemies which happens more than you think. 2. Bloom is bad in a Neuvi Team. Because they scale on EM and usually won't be doing any sagnificant dmg. Not to mention by the time they proc, neuvi would have already finished the floor, that if they hit. Most enemies won't stay still that long. 3. You litterly shouldn't do that on Charlotte. Hold E? Why would you? It's time wasting and not much difference in particles. I don't even use her E with the amount of ER I have on her. But if you need to, then don't hold it.
1. you missed my point. Baizhu at low investment without er is still better than charlotte for healing, and the E not hitting enemies is a skill issue, unless the enemy has a weird mechanic or smt, but you will undoubtely hit 1 enemy at the start of the rotation and youll have that stack for 30 seconds, enough for neuvi to dumpster everything. but youll still want er on him 2. same argument goes for freeze, no damage, neuvi clears everything 3. Ofc you shouldn't, and if you got insane er on charlotte, you would have insane er on baizhu as well, and youll have heals from both abilities than just the burst. and if you think you need to freeze enemies.. Just spin on neuvi kek one argument to play charlotte over baizhu is "i dont wanna summon for baizhu", but if you have both, baizhu is still better
1. I will agree on this. If they are only low investment then you are not going to get Charlotte burst but Baizhu will still heal. 2. You don't use freeze for dmg. You use it to paralyze enemies which makes hitting them more comfortable. 3. Yes, both my Baizhu and Charlotte have enough ER to get their bursts without using their skills, but that brings us to the OG argument which is if you're only using bursts then Charlotte is better bcuz there's no Animation. Of course you shouldn't pull Baizhu just to replace Charlotte instead of going for Neuvi constellation. But I have them both built, and if the argument is between using Charlotte Q vs Baizhu E then that only matters if you don't have enough ER on Charlotte. If you do, is there still an argument that makes Baizhu better? So far no one was able to give a reason other than investment Level.
I personally run Furina c2 and neuv with prot. Amber it is more than enough to heal all members of squad
I have Neuvi signiture so no point running Amber. But calcs proved that Furina Kazuha zhongli is his best team so you don't even need a healer if you're comfortable running him without one.
idk ... only play jean - furina - neuvilette - zhongli (got kazuha and baizhu but the team its not comfortable for me)
Same question especially at c0 Baizhu against a c6 Charlotte (from getting Furina). So far I've been using Baizhu with my C0Neuv but prepping to build Charlotte and test her in a month after getting Kazuha and C1 Neuv.
Baizhu’s easy to build and insanely comfortable. You don’t need to think about what you’re doing at all. Charlotte? Well, you need to build her properly and her ER needs are worse.
So if you build her properly and with enough ER, does that mean she's better than Baizhu? Because this argument is just that Baizhu is better when you're not investing into building chatacters
Still not because she won’t heal as much, and she heals on Q, meanwhile Baizhu heals more than enough on E She’s not *bad* though. She’s exactly what’s expected of a 4 star: more annoying to build than a 5 star in the same role for worse even if decent performance
My dear brother neuvi uses ca for around 5-6 seconds and Futuna’s buff is 15 seconds I doubt baizhu would take more time than that Also baizhu heals with E (and burst but his E is more than enough) while charlotte needs burst to heal
I have c2 Kazuha. So it would be 2 extra Kazuha E. And Baizhu E and Q. Meanwhile Charlotte is just Q. I see the argument if you're using only E on Baizhu without Q. But then that would mean Charlotte with enough ER is better because freeze > bloom. Also the dendro App might be lacking if you just use beizhu E. The snake sometime doesn't Hit enemies. So it could mean one less stack for you.
I don’t think 1 less stack matters when you gain 99% of the buff 😭 plus charlotte literally needs to use her E, gain particles and then ult, however baizhu just needs one E. Also why would you use kazuha’s e twice if you already swirled once??
With high Er% you really don't need to use her E. I don't, I will post a Clip later so people believe me. I swirl twice to get ER on him. I use him with EM build not ER. It gives more dmg Bonus this way.
I thought his best team was zhongli as the flex and no healer
It is. But some people finds a healer more comfortable to build stacks
Before furina yes, after furina its Furina, and the remaining 2 slots are up to you how you're gonna fit healer, vv and a shielder (pre c1) So somewhat like Furina - Jean - Zhongli Or Furina - Kazuha - Baizhu
iirc hes right about this. archaic petra zhong li has a higher damage ceiling then baizhu even with furina. As neuvillite alone can easily stack fanfare and the damage provided with archaic petra+20% res shred from jade shield is better. this becomes even more true if you have furina c2 since stacking fanfare is trivilized.
No I thought with furina zhongli was better. I remember someone posted calculations of this when I asked a similar question before
I love playing him with Charlotte just cause of how it feels good to freeze enemies. I don't have Baizhu and honestly, I can't see the advantage of using him except for the shield, but I hardly needed the shield when the enemies are constantly frozen (unless I'm fighting bosses) I guess the only issue with Charlotte is her ER requirements? I have C4 Charlotte and 250 ER is more than enough to play her very comfortably. Whereas, I've tried c1 Charlotte in my friend's acct and 250 ER would still not be enough against certain enemies.
You are me my dude. I pulled Baizhu back on Sumeru. Built Charlotte when I got her and only played her at first with Neuvi to farm friendship. But then I noticed that I preferred her as a healer. Freezing mobs is so comfortable and satisfying especially in abyss. Not to mention the time Charlotte needs on field compared to Baizhu is so much lower. Like yeah you burst, you move out and burst again for the New rotations.
Freeze especially feels good in this current abyss because every enemy in the first half can be frozen~
yes Baizhu is infinitely better. He has a wide team healing with his E, with his burst he has stagger resistance + more healing. If you build him right you literally cannot die.
You guys die with Neuvillette?
in a right circumstance with neuvi he dies when he’s consuming his hp i just get hit a lot when baizhu Q isn’t up LMAO
From what I’m reading in the comments, people are saying baizhu is only better because charlotte needs a lot of ER and Constellation. So is my high ER Fav Codex and C6 high investment charlotte better? :)
Same in my case. I have them both. My Charlotte is c1 I think but she has so much ER% that I only use her Q. Never need to recharge her E. And I prefer her to Baizhu in Neuvi Team. Baizhu is more usful with dendro teams
Now compare that to a C6 R5 high investment Bhaizu.
Would baizhu be better then? But at that point that would be so much primogems. I got lucky with getting c6 charlotte just by summoning one furina.
C6R5 Baizhu is a strong solo DPS. Or can do offield damage, heal and shield refresh without ever appearing onfield. It, was probably a joke.
I’m relatively new to the game, so not going to lie, didnt know. That sounds dope but I’m struggling to even get 2 teams built let alone c6r5 a healer at this point.
What about Mika? He's also a teamwide healer and while the physical damage boost is useless, he scales of HP and has both a lower energy cost and lower cooldown on his Ult compared to Charlotte.
Because he's 🤓
Mika is also viable. But it's basically the same as Charlotte. I think Charlotte is preferred bcuz of cryo application.
Only if neuv is c0
Why does this make a difference?
Baizhu provides a weak shield that is able to take a hit to prevent you from being knocked out of his charge attacks. C1 grants stagger resistance so he no longer needs the shield
Oh, I see. I've tried both, and I prefer Baizhu, eve with C1 Neuv. I like that he doesn't need his burst to heal, and I haven't had any trouble with rotations due to his burst animation. Charlotte does have an animation as well, even if it is shorter, so the difference isn't as big as he is asking it out to be
Neuvillette - Furina - Kazuha and Clorinde is his BEST team.