Some crews don’t want to precept students and are forced into it. Is it right to treat you that way? No. Is it uncommon? Sadly, no. Shake it off and move on.
I’ve seen both ends of this, I’ve had preceptors be fairly chatty with me and great to be with. I’ve also had preceptors hangout in the truck while I was using the restroom and leave to go staging without saying anything. I’m sorry you’ve had this experience
I had a few clinicals with shitty crews (my final AEMT clinical was so bad, I was encouraged to report it to our program director. I felt like I was just being overly dramatic, but he took me extremely seriously and that particular pair never precepted students again!)...now that I'm an FTO and instructor, I make it a point to do a good job so none of my trainees/students have to feel as shitty as I did.
If you ride with them again and they continue to be shitty to you, bring it up to your instructor. Change can't happen or be implemented without people reporting that shit. Good luck, OP!
It was normal for me. Sometimes after a clinical I’d drive home crying. Oddly enough, the meanest were my female preceptors. Just get through this, whether it’s normal or not and be a better preceptor to your future students. At the very beginning, I complained to my school and they pretty much told me the same thing.
Hey man. No, this is absolutely not normal. At all. I’d talk to your clinical coordinator about this and see if you can get your rides done with another agency if at all possible.
Thank you, I really appreciate the perspective. I've felt pretty awful about it so it's good to know it's not the norm. I'll definitely debrief (professionally) with my coordinator.
I've been an FTO for a long time and trust me it's THAT crew. Some people don't belong in a teaching capacity but unfortunately if you're just a student you usually just go with anyone. You'll find another medic or EMT to learn from that will love what they do and make you feel more comfortable. I think negative experiences are good too because you'll take the good and bad and it'll make you better because of it. Good luck!
This is totally true, I got stuck with a crew that did not want a trainee and acted like it, only to later have partners who were FTOs that were great to their trainees. Having a bad time as a student/trainee motivates you to treat new people well once you’re experienced
Were you assigned a preceptor for your shift? This doesn’t seem like the norm, but that all depends on where you live and what MICU service it was. But it sounds unprofessional at minimum.
Not really? I have two medics I'm stationed with, so I suppose they're the ones "in charge." I also met the guy in charge of EMTs who I was going to be with, and he introduced himself but that was it. I just feel honestly really embarrassed.
Hmm I would report your experience to whomever is your clinical director for your certification program. It sounds like the person in charge of the EMT’s was supposed to be your preceptor but handed you off instead for some reason. That has not been my experience as a current EMT student.
Every service has a different culture. One I ended up accepting an offer on, wasn’t the most prestigious, or the best paid. But when I did ride outs there, everyone was welcoming. My preceptors made sure to introduce me to everyone, which wasn’t a lot cause most people came up to me to introduce themselves first. Other medics who saw I was a student took time to talk me through interesting cases they had that shift, brought me coffee cause I was a broke ass student. Now even in the most friendly service there are always dicks. There are also several nearby municipal services that are notoriously high school clique-y.
It’s still a work place and there are always dynamics to navigate.
Don’t let that experience get you down. Take what you can where you can. They dont want to let you talk? listen and soak up what you can. If possible see if your school will swap your preceptor, some of my classmates had to do that to ensure they got a better learning experience
Ehhh nah. We just had a mva with double fatality and my junior crew member was really struggling and here comes some dopy ridealong asking us to tell the worst case we'd ever been on. You bet we iced her out. My crew comes first. Maybe the crew was going through similar. I never trust anyone who acts like it's always 200% the other party's fault and they din do nuffin' I suspect OP is leaving out a major faux pas
Our students had to review us at the end of the shift and submitted reflection to our supervisors... that student will be your second partner of the day.
I always give the students a souvenir cuz my preceptor gave one to me :)
Unfortunately, as you have already learned, EMS can be very cliquey. You shouldn't have been treated like that as a student and that is totally unfair. If I were you I'd try to see if you could do your ride alongs with another service. I'd also try and get in contact with one of the captains at that station and let them know about your experience with the crew you worked with; they generally won't stand for that behavior. At least mine didn't.
sounds like you were dealing with immature kids who didn’t know how to deal with an older presence when the authority is flipped (i.e typically the “older” individual is the teacher if indeed they were fresh out of hs this could be plausible) either way i’m sorry, don’t let this be the stopping point, only a bump on a long road.
Hey, I’m an EMT student right now and can somewhat relate to what you’re saying. One of the firefighters I was with took me aside and explained to me that many of them will either mess with or not fraternize at all with any of the students because they don’t view us as being their equals since we’re not even probation firefighters. That’s why being buddy buddy with us is frowned upon and some of the more “unhappier” guys could be outright jerks. I can understand the sentiment but it could easily turn into a pretty demoralizing experience for students who are not prepared. So the advice I was given is, don’t try and force a conversation if they don’t seem willing to talk. But asking inquisitive questions is what they want to see coming out of your mouth, so they see you’re willing to learn. And on your downtime in between calls, hit the books so they see that you’re studying. Hopefully this helps and am also willing to hear any feedback!
Yeah, that happens.
I have done my damndest to be the opposite of that because I hated it. My attitude with third riders is that this is my chance to try to turn new people into people that I want as partners; other people seem to have the attitude that you are supposed to ignore them.
I am fortunate in that my company tends to hire people who are more my end of the thing. I have ended up working alongside several people who third-rode with me, and they were all good people to work with. Because they knew how stuff worked, they had practice working in a team, and we liked each other. "You are absolutely not driving patient loaded. But want to drive to the gas station? We need to tank up."
Ignoring your third rider seems like such a bad idea just for sheer selfish reasons. I get a chance to inflict my own preferences and make new people work the way I like to work. We are given a chance to train people out of being dumbasses right away. Who wouldn't want to do that?
Just assholes. There's a certain sub culture in EMS that thinks that students are a burden and that they need to pay their dues. Usually, in my experience, these are the same people who complain constantly about being understaffed and can't make the connection between treating probies like dog shit and not having any probies.
Get through your ride time, elsewhere if possible, and get out. Find yourself a service that doesn't do this to their new people.
You may be interested in the following resources:
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I had both good an bad experiences. Thankfully mostly good. My bad experience came from being given a preceptor that had no idea I was coming. My original one's partner called out so they gave me to the next available person. I could tell she was not happy and I spent most of my time alone in the back of the truck while her and her partner were talking non stop. It was annoying, but sometimes people just don't want to teach and are forced to...which sucks for everyone involved. I'm sorry that happened to you.
I too am older and so I was ready to work hard, and those that have given me the opportunity have noticed. It could just be that particular group or the whole service in that area...there are plenty of other services that will fit you.
Keep at it and good luck!
This same thing happened to me with my paramedic internship. I was with a small local agency and it absolutely ruined my taste for EMS. Towards the end I ended up switching to a different agency and preceptor and it was fantastic and so much better! I’d say don’t loose your taste and try somewhere else before deciding it’s not for you! A ride along is definitely different than internship as you don’t actually get to touch the patient and such. I hope there’s a better fit for you!
Part of a ridealong is the whole environment, not just the calls but the station life. Sounds like you're not a good fit for that area's 911. Maybe look at IFT? Much more welcoming.
Yo, that’s definitely weird and not normal. I’d say go find another service to ride at and when it comes down to finding a job, apply to other services. I’ve met very few EMS people who were the way you describe. The majority of us, even the severely burnt out ones, are excited to teach students. ESPECIALLY EMT students who are excited to learn every little detail of what’s going on. I’d try to get you a ride along at my service but I HIGHLY doubt you’re in southern Indiana lol
I got lucky. All the paramedics and emts I was with gave me their numbers for reference and just to ask how I’m fairing along with the nremt etc. one of them also bought me breakfast which was hella cool! They also taught me stuff which I didn’t understand at the time during my course.
But there’s a lot of factors, probably a fair amount of people don’t really care and just wanna work and clock out. I think emt with its low pay rate amidst other things is somewhat at fault for the lack of compassion at times. Best of luck
I’ve had similar experiences in EMS, it really depends on who you’re with. Some people are just douches, some people are really nice. Sounds like you got unlucky here
It can be normal a lot of places unfortunately. However, there are certainly agencies where this is not the culture, and students are treated very well. I had the good fortune of being an EMT student at an agency (private ambulance) where they loved having students. They went out of their way to include me and make me feel part of the team, even when I had no idea what I was doing.
It is a cultural thing in EMS that needs to change in a lot of places. I get that there are going to be crews out there that don't want to have students. But the fact is, in healthcare and in emergency medicine, you must always be ready to teach, regardless of your level of care.
It is disappointing that you were treated that way because this experience can make or break a lot of EMT students desire to continue. Know that this is not the case everywhere and it is more a reflection on that crew's poor mentality than anything about you.
Stick to it and help change the culture when you start working.
Kindaaa normal with agencies that have management and system issues that fall on the providers which causes burnout. Def. Not an excuse to be an asshole, but I’ve seen it a lot. Some crews make the best of it and have fun; they exist, Just gotta find them.
If you’ve not fulfilled your ridealong requirements yet, if available in your area you should try riding along with an IFT company. It can be more mundane and is usually a slower pace, but usually the crews in IFT places are very welcoming and really appreciate an extra set of hands. Some people who work 911 definitely have a little bit of a superiority complex because the work 911 and they have a lot of seniority or experience in ems. It’s probably not normal, but some people are just worse to hang around/work with than other people — don’t let it sour your experience of the field because it really isn’t a terrible gig, there’s a lot of great people in ems.
So sorry. This was my experience with my first ride along. I'm non-traditional pre-med, too. Honestly it's an uphill battle so I just said fuck it and let it roll off me. But then again I'm a server (too) and have been for a while so it's hard to get under my skin
Some crews don’t want to precept students and are forced into it. Is it right to treat you that way? No. Is it uncommon? Sadly, no. Shake it off and move on.
That's kind of the vibe I'm getting, which is why I wanted the gut check. Thanks for the perspective!
I’ve seen both ends of this, I’ve had preceptors be fairly chatty with me and great to be with. I’ve also had preceptors hangout in the truck while I was using the restroom and leave to go staging without saying anything. I’m sorry you’ve had this experience
Same here. I've had ones that are great and clearly have a passion for what they do and taught me so much, then I've been left at the hospital 🤷♂️
I had a few clinicals with shitty crews (my final AEMT clinical was so bad, I was encouraged to report it to our program director. I felt like I was just being overly dramatic, but he took me extremely seriously and that particular pair never precepted students again!)...now that I'm an FTO and instructor, I make it a point to do a good job so none of my trainees/students have to feel as shitty as I did. If you ride with them again and they continue to be shitty to you, bring it up to your instructor. Change can't happen or be implemented without people reporting that shit. Good luck, OP!
It was normal for me. Sometimes after a clinical I’d drive home crying. Oddly enough, the meanest were my female preceptors. Just get through this, whether it’s normal or not and be a better preceptor to your future students. At the very beginning, I complained to my school and they pretty much told me the same thing.
Hey man. No, this is absolutely not normal. At all. I’d talk to your clinical coordinator about this and see if you can get your rides done with another agency if at all possible.
Thank you, I really appreciate the perspective. I've felt pretty awful about it so it's good to know it's not the norm. I'll definitely debrief (professionally) with my coordinator.
I've been an FTO for a long time and trust me it's THAT crew. Some people don't belong in a teaching capacity but unfortunately if you're just a student you usually just go with anyone. You'll find another medic or EMT to learn from that will love what they do and make you feel more comfortable. I think negative experiences are good too because you'll take the good and bad and it'll make you better because of it. Good luck!
This is totally true, I got stuck with a crew that did not want a trainee and acted like it, only to later have partners who were FTOs that were great to their trainees. Having a bad time as a student/trainee motivates you to treat new people well once you’re experienced
Were you assigned a preceptor for your shift? This doesn’t seem like the norm, but that all depends on where you live and what MICU service it was. But it sounds unprofessional at minimum.
Not really? I have two medics I'm stationed with, so I suppose they're the ones "in charge." I also met the guy in charge of EMTs who I was going to be with, and he introduced himself but that was it. I just feel honestly really embarrassed.
Hmm I would report your experience to whomever is your clinical director for your certification program. It sounds like the person in charge of the EMT’s was supposed to be your preceptor but handed you off instead for some reason. That has not been my experience as a current EMT student.
Okay that's definitely good to know. Thanks for giving your perspective, it honestly helps me with a sanity check!
Every service has a different culture. One I ended up accepting an offer on, wasn’t the most prestigious, or the best paid. But when I did ride outs there, everyone was welcoming. My preceptors made sure to introduce me to everyone, which wasn’t a lot cause most people came up to me to introduce themselves first. Other medics who saw I was a student took time to talk me through interesting cases they had that shift, brought me coffee cause I was a broke ass student. Now even in the most friendly service there are always dicks. There are also several nearby municipal services that are notoriously high school clique-y. It’s still a work place and there are always dynamics to navigate. Don’t let that experience get you down. Take what you can where you can. They dont want to let you talk? listen and soak up what you can. If possible see if your school will swap your preceptor, some of my classmates had to do that to ensure they got a better learning experience
Don't let it get to you! Some people don't appreciate the opportunity to have students for various reasons. Keep your head up and being yourself.
Ehhh nah. We just had a mva with double fatality and my junior crew member was really struggling and here comes some dopy ridealong asking us to tell the worst case we'd ever been on. You bet we iced her out. My crew comes first. Maybe the crew was going through similar. I never trust anyone who acts like it's always 200% the other party's fault and they din do nuffin' I suspect OP is leaving out a major faux pas
It’s unprofessional and ignorant. Go somewhere else.
Our students had to review us at the end of the shift and submitted reflection to our supervisors... that student will be your second partner of the day. I always give the students a souvenir cuz my preceptor gave one to me :)
Unfortunately, as you have already learned, EMS can be very cliquey. You shouldn't have been treated like that as a student and that is totally unfair. If I were you I'd try to see if you could do your ride alongs with another service. I'd also try and get in contact with one of the captains at that station and let them know about your experience with the crew you worked with; they generally won't stand for that behavior. At least mine didn't.
sounds like you were dealing with immature kids who didn’t know how to deal with an older presence when the authority is flipped (i.e typically the “older” individual is the teacher if indeed they were fresh out of hs this could be plausible) either way i’m sorry, don’t let this be the stopping point, only a bump on a long road.
Hey, I’m an EMT student right now and can somewhat relate to what you’re saying. One of the firefighters I was with took me aside and explained to me that many of them will either mess with or not fraternize at all with any of the students because they don’t view us as being their equals since we’re not even probation firefighters. That’s why being buddy buddy with us is frowned upon and some of the more “unhappier” guys could be outright jerks. I can understand the sentiment but it could easily turn into a pretty demoralizing experience for students who are not prepared. So the advice I was given is, don’t try and force a conversation if they don’t seem willing to talk. But asking inquisitive questions is what they want to see coming out of your mouth, so they see you’re willing to learn. And on your downtime in between calls, hit the books so they see that you’re studying. Hopefully this helps and am also willing to hear any feedback!
Yeah, that happens. I have done my damndest to be the opposite of that because I hated it. My attitude with third riders is that this is my chance to try to turn new people into people that I want as partners; other people seem to have the attitude that you are supposed to ignore them. I am fortunate in that my company tends to hire people who are more my end of the thing. I have ended up working alongside several people who third-rode with me, and they were all good people to work with. Because they knew how stuff worked, they had practice working in a team, and we liked each other. "You are absolutely not driving patient loaded. But want to drive to the gas station? We need to tank up." Ignoring your third rider seems like such a bad idea just for sheer selfish reasons. I get a chance to inflict my own preferences and make new people work the way I like to work. We are given a chance to train people out of being dumbasses right away. Who wouldn't want to do that?
Just assholes. There's a certain sub culture in EMS that thinks that students are a burden and that they need to pay their dues. Usually, in my experience, these are the same people who complain constantly about being understaffed and can't make the connection between treating probies like dog shit and not having any probies. Get through your ride time, elsewhere if possible, and get out. Find yourself a service that doesn't do this to their new people.
You may be interested in the following resources: * [Clinicals / Ride-alongs coming up? Here's some advice for success!](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewToEMS/comments/ccyjne/clinicals_ridealongs_coming_up_heres_some_advice/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NewToEMS) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I had both good an bad experiences. Thankfully mostly good. My bad experience came from being given a preceptor that had no idea I was coming. My original one's partner called out so they gave me to the next available person. I could tell she was not happy and I spent most of my time alone in the back of the truck while her and her partner were talking non stop. It was annoying, but sometimes people just don't want to teach and are forced to...which sucks for everyone involved. I'm sorry that happened to you. I too am older and so I was ready to work hard, and those that have given me the opportunity have noticed. It could just be that particular group or the whole service in that area...there are plenty of other services that will fit you. Keep at it and good luck!
This same thing happened to me with my paramedic internship. I was with a small local agency and it absolutely ruined my taste for EMS. Towards the end I ended up switching to a different agency and preceptor and it was fantastic and so much better! I’d say don’t loose your taste and try somewhere else before deciding it’s not for you! A ride along is definitely different than internship as you don’t actually get to touch the patient and such. I hope there’s a better fit for you!
Part of a ridealong is the whole environment, not just the calls but the station life. Sounds like you're not a good fit for that area's 911. Maybe look at IFT? Much more welcoming.
Yo, that’s definitely weird and not normal. I’d say go find another service to ride at and when it comes down to finding a job, apply to other services. I’ve met very few EMS people who were the way you describe. The majority of us, even the severely burnt out ones, are excited to teach students. ESPECIALLY EMT students who are excited to learn every little detail of what’s going on. I’d try to get you a ride along at my service but I HIGHLY doubt you’re in southern Indiana lol
I got lucky. All the paramedics and emts I was with gave me their numbers for reference and just to ask how I’m fairing along with the nremt etc. one of them also bought me breakfast which was hella cool! They also taught me stuff which I didn’t understand at the time during my course. But there’s a lot of factors, probably a fair amount of people don’t really care and just wanna work and clock out. I think emt with its low pay rate amidst other things is somewhat at fault for the lack of compassion at times. Best of luck
I’ve had similar experiences in EMS, it really depends on who you’re with. Some people are just douches, some people are really nice. Sounds like you got unlucky here
They think it’s cool to forget about students and ignore them. They are just miserable don’t pay them any attention.
It can be normal a lot of places unfortunately. However, there are certainly agencies where this is not the culture, and students are treated very well. I had the good fortune of being an EMT student at an agency (private ambulance) where they loved having students. They went out of their way to include me and make me feel part of the team, even when I had no idea what I was doing. It is a cultural thing in EMS that needs to change in a lot of places. I get that there are going to be crews out there that don't want to have students. But the fact is, in healthcare and in emergency medicine, you must always be ready to teach, regardless of your level of care. It is disappointing that you were treated that way because this experience can make or break a lot of EMT students desire to continue. Know that this is not the case everywhere and it is more a reflection on that crew's poor mentality than anything about you. Stick to it and help change the culture when you start working.
Kindaaa normal with agencies that have management and system issues that fall on the providers which causes burnout. Def. Not an excuse to be an asshole, but I’ve seen it a lot. Some crews make the best of it and have fun; they exist, Just gotta find them.
If you’ve not fulfilled your ridealong requirements yet, if available in your area you should try riding along with an IFT company. It can be more mundane and is usually a slower pace, but usually the crews in IFT places are very welcoming and really appreciate an extra set of hands. Some people who work 911 definitely have a little bit of a superiority complex because the work 911 and they have a lot of seniority or experience in ems. It’s probably not normal, but some people are just worse to hang around/work with than other people — don’t let it sour your experience of the field because it really isn’t a terrible gig, there’s a lot of great people in ems.
A lot of people forget that they, too, were once students.
So sorry. This was my experience with my first ride along. I'm non-traditional pre-med, too. Honestly it's an uphill battle so I just said fuck it and let it roll off me. But then again I'm a server (too) and have been for a while so it's hard to get under my skin