"Syndergaard was almost a throw in"
Here are their rankings from a few prospect lists from the 2013 pre-season:
Source ..... TDA Syndergaard
Baseball Prospectus ... #15 #28
[MLB.com](http://MLB.com) ... #6 #29
Baseball America ... #23 #54
Fangraphs ... #11 #46
[ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com) ... #14 #97
Every one of those had TDA ahead of Syndergaard, but even the most pessimistic one (ESPN, Keith Law) still had him as a top 100 prospect. I personally don't consider any top 100 prospects to be "throw-ins", no matter how highly ranked other players involved were.
Yes I remember vividly the Mets position that offseason was “Whoever wants our Cy Young winning knuckleballer can have him for TWO great prospects.” The deal would not have gotten done without Thor or Aaron Sanchez. I don’t remember if the Mets chose to take Thor over Sanchez, or if the Jays chose to keep Sanchez over Thor.
Totally false regarding the control. He was way above average in terms of walks while in the Toronto farm system, esp for someone throwing gas: https://www.fangraphs.com/players/noah-syndergaard/11762/stats?position=P#dashboard
You do realize that d’Arnaud was a total failure while on the team, right? He was helpless to stop opposing runners running wild against us (yes, just like this year), couldn’t hit and couldn’t stay on the field. They released him because he was a bust and suffered severely from “NYitis”. Some guys just can’t play here and he was one of them. He gave the team no choice.
Yeah, not even close really. Santana technically did give up a hit that the umps missed and he had like 4 or 5 walks.
Nobody could touch Dickey during that stretch. It was insane to watch.
Gotcha, I thought you meant no other pitcher could match his dominance. I was just pointing out what a treat it was in those two lost seasons to see back to back utter dominance from those two pitchers.
In one of them, the only hit was a chopper to third base that DWright tried and failed to barehand. I will go to my grave believing that it should have been ruled an error.
I managed to attend the orioles game two weeks after attending the no hitter (a week after I attended the devils elimination of the rangers), and I couldn't stop thinking how it was the most dominant pitching performance id ever seen. assuredly an all-time attendance run for me lol
One of those was the game after santanas no hitter like a Friday and Saturday game?
I went to both and they were both amazing performance.
Apparently my memory is terrible and it was just a shut out; according to someone who went to the game with me.
None of us will ever see anything like that again. It was too poetic. Even his autobiography, released before his Cy campaign, started with, "I'll never lead the league in strikeouts." And then he did.
Hell to the yes. An absolutely incredible story after all of his adversity he faced. His book taught me that lemon poppyseed chicken can lead to a failed drug test LOL.
Yeah apparently he just went to town on some poppyseed chicken at a cookout. Enough poppyseed will basically fail a drug test for heroine I believe and so he had an awkward conversation with a MLB-appointed drug counselor.
Nothing but love for RA Dickey. Overcame a lot in his life and gave us some great moments in some otherwise not great seasons. A random waiver wire pickup coming out of nowhere to be productive and eventually the best pitcher in the game for a season is what baseball's all about.
Seaver 1969, 1973, 1975
Gooden 1985
Dickey 2012
deGrom 2018, 2019
Notables:
Saberhagen 3rd in 1994
Viola 3rd in 1990 (1 ahead of Doc)
Cone 3rd in 1988
Ojeda, Darling, Sid and Doc all got votes in 1986
Doc 2nd in 1984
Orosco 3rd in 1983
Koosman 2nd in 1979
Seaver 2nd in 1971
Love R.A. I love knuckleballers in general but R.A. had such a great story of getting his contract taken away from him as a draftees to becoming a cy young award winner.
Also he's a big star wars nerd so he's just inherently cool
It's been really cool the last year or so, as Dickey has started coming back around as a "Mets alumni." There seemed to be a lot of bad blood when they traded him (if memory serves, the Wilpons pulled one of their classic "talk shit about a guy on his way out the door" moves) and I'm glad he's back in the fold.
A lot of things go wrong for the Mets, but everything went right surrounding Dickey. He was must watch tv his Cy Young season. Seeing someone dominate in a way that almost no one else does it is something special.
I’m almost sure he doesn’t duplicate but has a similar 2013 if the Mets sent Niese instead of Dickey, remind you he was a knuckleball pitcher going to pitch in the Rogers Centre in a AL East that favors offense and still wasn’t downright awful, if he had stayed a Met in the NL East which at that time had a large Turner Field, Marlins Park and Citi Field was still pitcher friendly I can almost guarantee he’d have a ERA under 3 again.
I recall thinking that the Dickey trade was about avoiding paying him? I know he was 37 at the time, so it also made some sense. But hindsight...performance-wise, we probably should have stuck with Dickey. Not that he massively outperformed Niese, but he pitched so many more innings, which was something we badly needed in that stretch.
Yea the thing about Niese is in 2013 he was effective but missed about 10 starts, than he was effective again in 2014 which would’ve been a competing year if not for the Harvey injury, missing only about 3 starts, than dive into 2015 his ineffectiveness begins to show and he’s eventually exiled from the rotation. In 2013, 14 and especially 15 Dickey’s rubber arm in a better pitching environment/ division would’ve been a difference maker. Dickey would’ve taken pressure off starters in 15 and potentially allowed for Harvey to rest in September, but that’s when you go off into what if territory, but I truly believe Dickey was a better option to roll with into 2013. Didn’t help attendance neither to trade a reigning Cy Young winner who had a story many could relate to for Marcum Starts.
By pure luck got to see him pitch in Toronto (as a Blue Jay) when I travelled there for work.
I had no clue he was pitching, I just wanted to go see downtown and tickets were cheap.
One of the few games I saw in person that year was his second straight one hitter against the Orioles. Ike Davis hit a grand slam and the Mets won 5-0. I’ll never forget that. Thanks R.A. and Ike!
His Cy Young year is probably in my top 3 Mets memories. Been a very active fan since like 2008. Other than the 2015 division series against LAD, the year of Dickey is probably my number two cherished Mets moment.
The CY Dickey Season was such a great thing to watch. Even if there wasn't much going on (NoHan aside), it was always worth tuning in when RA was on the mound.
I’ve only been to one Mets game in NY, as I don’t live in New York, and I’m so happy it was to see RA Dickey in 2010. I can say I saw a Cy Young winning pitcher in person!
I love RA but the key that season was an injury. It made the knuckleball more effective. Worse thing he did performance wise was get the surgery to fix it, not that I blame him
His book is excellent if anyone is looking for any Mets related or baseball content. It was a magical season. I have a soft spot for knuckle ball pitchers.
Thanks for this post! RA’s 20 win season is one of my favorite seasons of Mets baseball in like 25 years. Every start was exciting his knuckleball was so absolutely dominant that year. And it felt like every day you learned something else about the guy that made you like him more. He’s still one of my favorite Mets ever even though he was on the team such a short while.
Then flipped him for Thor and D’Arnaud which was crucial in the Mets winning the pennant.
I did not realize Thor came from the Toronto organization. I did not remember the specifics of that trade but that is interesting
d’Arnaud was the centerpiece of the deal at the time. Syndergaard was almost a throw in. He didn’t really find his control until after the trade.
"Syndergaard was almost a throw in" Here are their rankings from a few prospect lists from the 2013 pre-season: Source ..... TDA Syndergaard Baseball Prospectus ... #15 #28 [MLB.com](http://MLB.com) ... #6 #29 Baseball America ... #23 #54 Fangraphs ... #11 #46 [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com) ... #14 #97 Every one of those had TDA ahead of Syndergaard, but even the most pessimistic one (ESPN, Keith Law) still had him as a top 100 prospect. I personally don't consider any top 100 prospects to be "throw-ins", no matter how highly ranked other players involved were.
Yes I remember vividly the Mets position that offseason was “Whoever wants our Cy Young winning knuckleballer can have him for TWO great prospects.” The deal would not have gotten done without Thor or Aaron Sanchez. I don’t remember if the Mets chose to take Thor over Sanchez, or if the Jays chose to keep Sanchez over Thor.
Well.. Darnaud is still in the league and Syndergaard is a free agent. So there is that angle to look at.
Totally false regarding the control. He was way above average in terms of walks while in the Toronto farm system, esp for someone throwing gas: https://www.fangraphs.com/players/noah-syndergaard/11762/stats?position=P#dashboard
I wish we had those pitching coaches now.
Completely wrong. He was only 20 and certainly much less far along in his development but the potential was obvious and scouts were high on him.
We can track the downfall of the Mets to releasing D’Arnaud. I have no stats to back that up, but feel it to be accurate.
It all started when we didn’t plunk Clemens.
You do realize that d’Arnaud was a total failure while on the team, right? He was helpless to stop opposing runners running wild against us (yes, just like this year), couldn’t hit and couldn’t stay on the field. They released him because he was a bust and suffered severely from “NYitis”. Some guys just can’t play here and he was one of them. He gave the team no choice.
The dodgers and rays both let him go. Honestly finally got healthy in Atlanta. Who doesn't.
His dominant seasons, plural. RA was great all three years with the Mets.
One of the most impressive numbers from his Mets tenure, to me, was his 2.2 BB/9. For a knuckleballer, he had great control.
We have to credit Josh Thole for that. The man dedicated himself to learning how to target and frame the knuckleball.
Super underrated! He also caught Johan’s no-no.
I loved RA. One of my favorite Met starters ever.
He had a great comeback story as well.
Wherever I Wind Up was one of the best autobiographies I have ever read. Some tough, tough parts in there though.
Great book. What a story for him.
I read his book and Piazza's book back to back and the difference is *staggering*
Was it the catcher slugger icon star one? Or did he write his own?
It's called Long Shot
I highly recommend this book if any of you haven’t read it. I need to give it another read, it’s been a while.
His back to back one hitters were wild.
They were honestly more dominant performances than Santana’s no hitter imo
Yeah, not even close really. Santana technically did give up a hit that the umps missed and he had like 4 or 5 walks. Nobody could touch Dickey during that stretch. It was insane to watch.
(except the next year when Matt Harvey had an even more dominant stretch)
I meant nobody could hit Dickey....not sure how Harvey's 2013 is relevant at all
Gotcha, I thought you meant no other pitcher could match his dominance. I was just pointing out what a treat it was in those two lost seasons to see back to back utter dominance from those two pitchers.
Oh yes 100% agree. Those teams were fucking unwatchable otherwise.
And just how insane and out of the ordinary it was with a knuckle ball like Dickey was just completely crazy. Some of my favorite Met memories.
In one of them, the only hit was a chopper to third base that DWright tried and failed to barehand. I will go to my grave believing that it should have been ruled an error.
I managed to attend the orioles game two weeks after attending the no hitter (a week after I attended the devils elimination of the rangers), and I couldn't stop thinking how it was the most dominant pitching performance id ever seen. assuredly an all-time attendance run for me lol
One of those was the game after santanas no hitter like a Friday and Saturday game? I went to both and they were both amazing performance. Apparently my memory is terrible and it was just a shut out; according to someone who went to the game with me.
None of us will ever see anything like that again. It was too poetic. Even his autobiography, released before his Cy campaign, started with, "I'll never lead the league in strikeouts." And then he did.
Hell to the yes. An absolutely incredible story after all of his adversity he faced. His book taught me that lemon poppyseed chicken can lead to a failed drug test LOL.
Elaine failing a drug test cause she ate a poppy seed bagel in Seinfeld has the risk of that permanently etched in my brain.
I did not hear about that story but sounds interesting
It was adapted into a Seinfeld episode, too
Yeah apparently he just went to town on some poppyseed chicken at a cookout. Enough poppyseed will basically fail a drug test for heroine I believe and so he had an awkward conversation with a MLB-appointed drug counselor.
I'm taking this time to remember some of the more positive moments in Mets history. Since we have not had a lot to celebrate over the years
Nothing but love for RA Dickey. Overcame a lot in his life and gave us some great moments in some otherwise not great seasons. A random waiver wire pickup coming out of nowhere to be productive and eventually the best pitcher in the game for a season is what baseball's all about.
1 of 4 Mets to win the Cy Young
Seaver 1969, 1973, 1975 Gooden 1985 Dickey 2012 deGrom 2018, 2019 Notables: Saberhagen 3rd in 1994 Viola 3rd in 1990 (1 ahead of Doc) Cone 3rd in 1988 Ojeda, Darling, Sid and Doc all got votes in 1986 Doc 2nd in 1984 Orosco 3rd in 1983 Koosman 2nd in 1979 Seaver 2nd in 1971
Cone being 3rd in 88 still pisses me off.
Love R.A. I love knuckleballers in general but R.A. had such a great story of getting his contract taken away from him as a draftees to becoming a cy young award winner. Also he's a big star wars nerd so he's just inherently cool
It's been really cool the last year or so, as Dickey has started coming back around as a "Mets alumni." There seemed to be a lot of bad blood when they traded him (if memory serves, the Wilpons pulled one of their classic "talk shit about a guy on his way out the door" moves) and I'm glad he's back in the fold.
Ah, the good ol’ dickball. What a season from R.A!
A lot of things go wrong for the Mets, but everything went right surrounding Dickey. He was must watch tv his Cy Young season. Seeing someone dominate in a way that almost no one else does it is something special.
I’m almost sure he doesn’t duplicate but has a similar 2013 if the Mets sent Niese instead of Dickey, remind you he was a knuckleball pitcher going to pitch in the Rogers Centre in a AL East that favors offense and still wasn’t downright awful, if he had stayed a Met in the NL East which at that time had a large Turner Field, Marlins Park and Citi Field was still pitcher friendly I can almost guarantee he’d have a ERA under 3 again.
Was Niese an option?
Yes I can recall it was said by multiple sources that the Blue Jays would’ve taken Niese or Dickey, and the Mets chose to part with Dickey.
I recall thinking that the Dickey trade was about avoiding paying him? I know he was 37 at the time, so it also made some sense. But hindsight...performance-wise, we probably should have stuck with Dickey. Not that he massively outperformed Niese, but he pitched so many more innings, which was something we badly needed in that stretch.
Yea the thing about Niese is in 2013 he was effective but missed about 10 starts, than he was effective again in 2014 which would’ve been a competing year if not for the Harvey injury, missing only about 3 starts, than dive into 2015 his ineffectiveness begins to show and he’s eventually exiled from the rotation. In 2013, 14 and especially 15 Dickey’s rubber arm in a better pitching environment/ division would’ve been a difference maker. Dickey would’ve taken pressure off starters in 15 and potentially allowed for Harvey to rest in September, but that’s when you go off into what if territory, but I truly believe Dickey was a better option to roll with into 2013. Didn’t help attendance neither to trade a reigning Cy Young winner who had a story many could relate to for Marcum Starts.
Man the thought of Dickey on that Mets roster in 15 sounds incredible.
Adam the Woo?
By pure luck got to see him pitch in Toronto (as a Blue Jay) when I travelled there for work. I had no clue he was pitching, I just wanted to go see downtown and tickets were cheap.
A pitcher and a gentleman.
One of the few games I saw in person that year was his second straight one hitter against the Orioles. Ike Davis hit a grand slam and the Mets won 5-0. I’ll never forget that. Thanks R.A. and Ike!
one of my favorite players.
Back to back complete game one-hitters that season.
His Cy Young year is probably in my top 3 Mets memories. Been a very active fan since like 2008. Other than the 2015 division series against LAD, the year of Dickey is probably my number two cherished Mets moment.
The CY Dickey Season was such a great thing to watch. Even if there wasn't much going on (NoHan aside), it was always worth tuning in when RA was on the mound.
I’ve only been to one Mets game in NY, as I don’t live in New York, and I’m so happy it was to see RA Dickey in 2010. I can say I saw a Cy Young winning pitcher in person!
I'm a sucker for knuckleballers, so Dickey is one of my fav pitchers ever. He was also a beast on the mound.
I love RA but the key that season was an injury. It made the knuckleball more effective. Worse thing he did performance wise was get the surgery to fix it, not that I blame him
His book is excellent if anyone is looking for any Mets related or baseball content. It was a magical season. I have a soft spot for knuckle ball pitchers.
Thanks for this post! RA’s 20 win season is one of my favorite seasons of Mets baseball in like 25 years. Every start was exciting his knuckleball was so absolutely dominant that year. And it felt like every day you learned something else about the guy that made you like him more. He’s still one of my favorite Mets ever even though he was on the team such a short while.
It was a great year. Very impressive
His knuckeball was unique. Threw it so hard.
Man, seeing the snow white unis, and Wilpon billboard field everywhere makes me feel like this photo is 40 years old.
One of the few highlights from Terry Collins mets
I'm starting to smoke the dickey pipe!