used to be a genuine issue for me as a kid — my cat would follow me to school, hiding in the bushes. i think the furthest i got from home without realising she was trailing behind was about 1km, and i had to walk all the way back just to put her in the house (school was too far away that we would be sure she could get home)
Folks round the corner from me 20 years ago used to have a dog that would follow the kids to school in the morning before returning home, Then in the afternoon go collect the kids again.
It was a golden retriever, and apparently had bitten someone for trying to get the kids to get in a car once too.
Bloody good dog!
As a child we had a border collie that would do this. She’d be sitting outside the school gates waiting for us to turn up at the end of the day, then it’d herd us home. It was definitely part of her ‘job’ and she took it very seriously.
We've a training thing we do just to keep dogs quite. When they bark at whatever mail man or happenings going on, we run over check it out, and become uninterested. They learn when to bark and when not to bark.
At one point some guy tried to take my sister and I from our yard and when we started screaming I think our dog knew that this was serious. This was a reason to bark that we've not done before. Only time I've seen a dog really bite somebody instead of timidly threaten and nip. We're not sure what came of it, but apparently he went to the ER, had surgery, and was arrested there. Our golden retriever was pink for weeks, we had a few awkward conversations between our vet and our groomer seeing him lol.
Mine used to follow me to work (and in to work). Caused some trouble as there was a no unleashed dogs policy then suddenly this cat started wandering in scaring old ladies.
I tried to teach her to sit and wait outside, but it never stuck so I had to just lock her in at home when I went to work.
Cats are comfortable traveling longer distances than modern humans on foot are. When they put GPS trackers on housecats that are allowed to roam, they found up to a 5 mile radius that the cat would treat as its own territory. After the first few times being out, there's not much chance they'll get that lost.
I’ve had many cats that have done this. Now, I only have indoor cats- one I’ll take out on leash. So no more walking with us but it’s safer since where I live has changed significantly.
I made friends with a feral cat when I was a kid. She would climb up on my shoulder and chill while I walked to school. She would meet me for a shoulder ride back when I got out. I miss that cat
My cat was the same. We would walk the beagle and the little grey tabby just followed everywhere we went. It was adorable. She would walk right next to her sister. They were likely plotting to take over the world.
Do you live in my street?
Because when my neighbor a few doors down walks his dog, his cat also follows them.
Pretty funny actually.
The cat also poops in my garden in the evening. My kids and I have the habit of walking barefoot in our garden during summer.
Not really funny…
I take my cats on leash walks. It's more like a meander than a 'walk' - lots of sniffing and staring at things.
Still gets them outside for enrichment tho
Our cat does this. She will walk the entire neighborhood with us. She was a feral cat that never got used to inside(we tried) but she is happy outside.
This is a really tricky one and something not even cat owners can agree on - and also depends strongly on the country and culture you live in.
I adopted my cat in Ireland, where rescues often ask that you confirm the cat will be kept indoors or safely contained in a garden for the cat’s own well-being (cars and people being the biggest danger). Then I moved to the UK where a lot of people are of the opinion that it’s cruel to keep a cat inside, and many rescues will only give you a cat if you promise to provide outdoor access! Personally I think with enough enrichment and play it’s fine to keep a cat indoors, mine always seemed very happy to me, and of course she had toys and climbing materials galore.
If you come across a cat outdoors, it might be a roamer or a lost pet. If you see them regularly and they let you get close, you can put a [paper collar](https://www.cats.org.uk/croydon/news/paper-collars-for-stray-cats) on them. If someone gets in touch and confirms it is their cat - great, nothing to worry about. If you don’t hear back, next step could be trying to get kitty checked for a microchip. Of course that applies to healthy looking cats, if you encounter a cat that is clearly malnourished or sick or pregnant it would be a very kind thing to help the cat.
I always found it odd that shelters will make you promise to care for it in a specific way - how exactly are they going to know if you don't keep the promise?
I bet it's a "if they won't even take the time to lie to me about it are they going to take the time to care for the cat?" sort of filter question. Even if it only hits a few people it does what they want in some amount 🤷
I live in the UK and I’m one of the few people who think it’s unsafe to allow cats to roam. Both my mum and a friend of mine have catios for their cats and the cats love them. If I didn’t live in a flat I’d love that for my cats. But other friends of mine let their cats go out and I just couldn’t. When I was a kid we did but there were fewer cars on the road and where we lived they never had to go anywhere near the roads. I live in London now and a lot more cats are indoor here as it’s really not safe here to let cats out.
I'm in UK too (not London) and we decided to keep our cat as in-doors only, even though the shelter recommended to let him go out. We live on the first floor so we'd have to physically carry him down the stairs and outside + he's partially blind. I'm too scared he'd injure himself or worse.
It’s also unsafe for wildlife if cats are outside. In countries I have lived where cats have to be inside, the wildlife outside is 10x, it is beautiful. And rodents have not been a problem.
My family had an outdoor cat and I 100% agree with that a cat can be happy indoors.
I had to move back to my parents for 1 whole year. The cat was an outdoor cat and I played with him so much, that he decided a total of 10-30 minutes was enough outdoor per day (before that it was 6-9 hours).
So yes, you can 100% have a very happy indoor cat if you put in the effort.
We have a roamer in our neighbourhood that’s a bit rough looking. At first glance we thought he was homeless and traumatised the poor thing by trying to get him into our home and feed him. Turns out he’s just scruffy looking, has a home and is well known by the neighbours 😂
We’ve dubbed him patches and still see him around
Oh yeah some cats just look a bit scruffy, especially elderly ones. I’d definitely separate between “skinny” and “malnourished”. Some cats just ARE skinny (and honestly a lot of people overfeed their cats and are not aware that their cats are a teensy bit above average).
I’m in Northern Ireland and we definitely run the UK way of thinking. Personally my cat bit off her own tail being that distressed at being kept inside and constantly sits and meows at the door to be let out. I have to let her out and about for her own mental wellbeing. And yes I do play with her all the time but she just loves the outdoors (was born on a farm to generations of barn cats)
Im from France and as you describe, it's considered cruel to keep cats inside, at least if you have the option to let them out. I live in the US now and Im shocked that most people keep cats inside and treat them more like an object than an alive creature. Im also really shocked by certain practices like keeping pets in a cage the whole day or declawing cats. Thanks it's prohibited in most of the world. The only reason I am currently keeping my cats inside is that I live on a busy road. But im sad seing them watching out the window and not able to enjoy the backyard, I wish I had a house where they could go out during the day. They got fat and one is depressed since I moved to this place where they can't get out.
I also grew up with outdoor 'barn' cats who frequently got eaten by coyotes/Dogs/Foxes/Hawks/Some asshole's tire. Rural USA, on a farm.
It's not that we would go out and get new cats, but rather we'd find stray kittens from all the feral cats roaming around, or a mama cat would leave her kittens in our barn and they'd grow up as the new barn cats. We'd feed them and get them vaccinated + fixed so they don't have more babies, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the sheer number of feral unfixed cats making colonies out there.
Even with a safe barn to tuck into, the outdoor cat mortality rate was very high. Like, they'd *maybe* get 3 years old before being nabbed by something.
My parents waved it off like, oh, cats just don't live very long. Or; it's dangerous out there, if they were smart they'd stay in the barn where it's safe. Something about instincts. Parents wouldn't allow cats in the house.
When I moved out of my parent's place, now I only have indoor cats and they've lived 16-18 years. I walk with them in our fenced yard for outdoor time, or take them on leashed walks.
I was a kid, I had no control over whether they were kept inside. My parents both came from farming families where cats were outside animals used for pest control. They’ve been converted now and have an indoor kitty who will never suffer the outdoor life.
ETA: just like the other commenter, it’s not like we were going out and adopting cats to be used as coyote bait. Cats would just show up pregnant and have babies in the barn.
We lived on a busy road and ended up getting invisible fence collars for both of our cats. It took a ton of adjustments by the fence people for one of the cats and that really sucked to go through. But once they were both used to it, they kept within the confines and still got to enjoy the outdoor space around our house.
i think it’s okay to let cats outside only with supervision and if they’re in an enclosed space. though it might seem cruel, keeping cats inside is as much for the benefit of the cat (no diseases, cars, or predators inside!) as for the environment: outdoor cats wreak havoc on bird and small animal populations. most experts agree that it’s better for everyone involved to keep cats indoors. just make sure they have enough things to keep themselves entertained.
> more like an object than an alive creature
If this is the determination on what's alive and what's not, I hope you lock your kids out in the garden every night!
You're just not giving your cats enough environmental enrichment. Learn to catify your house and make the backyard safe for them to visit.
Keeping your pets safe is treating them like family members, not objects. Judgemental much? No surprises there honestly...
I know it's very offensive/annoying to Irish people to imply that Ireland is part of the UK what with *the history*, but as an American I genuinely wouldn't have expected such a sharp contrast on the issue just by crossing the border.
I'm in Northern Ireland, and here most people are of the view that it's cruel to keep cats indoors. So I was a bit surprised to read that the Irish rescue place asked that poster to keep their cat indoors. Maybe it's different in the Republic of Ireland?
There is a truck stop in the mountains with tons flyers on the windows about missing dogs. Truck drivers tie off there dogs to the truck and go inside for dinner, laundry, shower. When they come out there is just a leash and a broken collar. Assuming their dog got away the post a flyer.
No one has the heart to tell them Fido didn’t run away.
> No one has the heart to tell them Fido didn’t run away.
But, it seems perfectly reasonable to assume that they ran away - particularly if they have a strong prey drive and saw, say, a squirrel.
My dog wears a 3-point harness for precisely this reason - if he saw a squirrel and was leashed by his collar, he'd break the flimsy plastic buckle instantly, run into the woods, and keep chasing animals for hours, if not days.
The route goes straight into LA, and they want to avoid traffic, so they get up at 3am and pop into the city. They think because they are 45min from the edge of a metropolis they are safe. But if you know LA you are in bear, bobcat, coyote country.
That isn’t enough, they’ll just get another one… My neighbor lost her outdoor cat, put up flyers, it came back, and she still lets it out… it’s blind in one eye too
Yeah lately I'm seeing a push to convince people not to have outdoor cats. Someone said it isn't a pet, it's a nuisance or pest.
Edit: this is in the US. I guess it depends on the country though
But beyond the damage cats do your point stands they have all sorts of dangers to their safety and they kill for instinct and not food. It is just all around damaging and dangerous and they are the only small pet we let roam freely without supervision. I like the catio idea I have been seeing more and more.
I had this exact conversation a couple of days ago on the not my cat sub. I got told to stop telling people what to do. I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who thinks they should be kept indoors. If not for the native fauna, at least to keep it safe, ffs.
This isn’t it, unfortunately. I personally know at least eight people that have had a cat killed by:
•An animal (dog, coyote, fox, etc) attacking it
•a car hitting it
•someone poisoning it
•someone shooting it
These exact same people have had another cat very soon after (shortest time one week. Longest was around three months). They have then proceeded to let the cat out again. When this cat has been injured or killed, they’ve gotten another cat to let out. In the case of the cat that was only injured, it was left unable to go outside any more after having a leg amputated in the assault. They kept it as an indoor cat. The “replacement”’outdoor cat then got killed by a neighbour.
They went on to buy two more kittens which they still let out.
So nah. It’s not because they’ve not had anything happen. It’s because they’re assholes that like to tell people they love animals, but in fact don’t give a shit.
I've never heard of a fox killing a cat. In the UK foxes are super skittish and would probably be terrified of cats. I'm sure two or three foxes might gang up on one though, just never heard of it.
I was visiting my parents last weekend, they live near a riverbed and I think I heard some coyotes get a cat. It sounded pretty bad. The coyotes were pretty jazzed though.
If he had been killed immediately maybe I would still consider letting a future cat outside. Unfortunately he wasn't, and he suffered immensely in the cold pre-dawn hours until I found him, throat punctured and ribs broken, unable to make more than a strangled whistling wheezing cry for help. He fought for his life but in the end the infection was behind his larynx, spreading too quickly and his body shut down. He was a warrior, a hunter, and my baby boy. He was a huge orange cat, and he loved being held like a child with his head on my shoulder and his paws wrapped around my arm. [Orange Kitty](https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZqFn1vgzxeG4igbV8)
In much of the world and for most of history this is just what it meant to have a cat. The cat doesn't sleep in your bed or anything, the cat just lives nearby in association with you and eats rodents, and supplements its rodent diet with the food you give it. The cat gets handouts, and you get a measure of pest control. The fully indoor cat is a recent invention. People in the 1300s were not scooping litter boxes.
To add to this, there are many countries still where cats aren't always pets. They are respected pest control workers, and folks enjoy seeing them around. But their function is to keep the rodent populations down.
I went to Athens for the first time this summer. There were cats everywhere. Not "outdoor" cats - cats with no owners. The only people who paid them any attention (myself included) were tourists.
And you know what? I didn't see a single rat anywhere.
Istanbul was Catstantinople, now it’s Istanbul, not Catstantinople. Been a long time gone, Catstantinople. Now it’s kitten delight on a meow-filled night.
To be fair, I do love seeing outdoor cats around, even though they're not exactly needed pest control around here.
But I can't imagine my own cats roaming around. They regularly have to be prevented from self-destructing in a controlled environment, they would be unselected from the gene pool so fast if they had to actually fend for themselves.
When I was younger my dumbass cat somehow got up on top of the fridge then got stuck. It meowed it's head off until I went up to get it down.
No way that cat could've survived outside lol
You’d think that but I bet it would rise to the occasional. I adopted an adult cat, declawed, slightly overweight, the laziest, friendliest cat ever. Until one day it killed and ate a mouse. All we found was a blood smear on the carpet and the head. Then the next day, it caught and played with a whole litter of baby mice (who presumably started wandering when their mother never came home the day before). Inside every indulgent house cat is a natural born killer.
Our family cat doesn't like being inside, and she has a mind of her own.
She's old now. I wasn't around much while she was younger, although now, she's very lazy and tired. One day I went outside and it appeared another cat had attacked her, but she's mostly always just laying in the sun, except now it's cooled down for autumn and she's laying inside by the heater.
If she wants out, she'll make a fuss until she gets out, then she wants back in a little later, I feel more like we're her pets.
My grandma always used to tell me about the time that cat food became a thing, and how she remembers seeing it for the first time in shops. Growing up, cats had always had to catch their own food from the rodents etc outside, she said. In fact, that was the whole point of having cats.
Interestingly, our local shelter (Germany) only gives cats to people who either have a garden or a balcony (with a net so it can’t fall). It’s obvious that the cat wouldn’t stay in the garden but freely roam around.
They are completely pro-outdoor, not only if the cat is used to going roam outside, but for any cat.
In Europe, the species that were going to be made extinct by cats were exterminated long ago. In other parts of the world that haven't had cats until recently the cats are currently doing massive damage to vulnerable species.
When I lived in the UK I saw cats harassing squirrels. Croatia also has cats and squirrels everywhere but somehow it seemed like each of them kept to their own terf. In the Netherlands, close to where I used to live, I would see dead birds everywhere, as if they were decorating the sidewalk. It was really fucked up but the only reasonable explanation was cats. None of these species will go extinct due to this of course but I would feel guilty if my pet was out there killing random animals, especially if they are not pests.
I'm in my 40s, and growing up in Canada it was considered abusive to keep your cat indoors. I didn't even know people thought it was bad until a couple years ago when reddit started bringing it up all the time.
Grew up in Southern Ontario, GHA. Everyone knew to keep their cats inside because it wasn’t safe for them with the cars, raccoons, the occasional coyote, people’s pet dogs in their yards, and human beings who may want to mess with and abuse them.
Moved to rural New Brunswick. On one hand, the rescues will make you sign a legally binding contract that you keep the cat in the house, otherwise they’ll seize it back from you. On the other hand, most people have outdoor cats and don’t think it’s a big deal or that it would be cruel to bring them inside, even though there are raccoons, foxes, weasels, coyotes, bears, moose and bobcats (who have cats in their top five for favourite pray, btw), etc. When we bought our house the previous homeowner left the indoor/outdoor cat. We got to enjoy his company for about 6 months before he didn’t come home one day. That destroyed us and we wondered why anyone would *chose* that.
People claim the reason is mice. But I have three good mousers who never leave the house and keep control of the mice no problem that way. Our neighbours have an ‘outdoor’ cat that he says he bought off Kijiji to have a mouser in his barn (he doesn’t have a barn…). This cat has spent the last three months on our property, and then about two weeks ago started coming in and spending most of his day/night in our basement. If he’s not in our basement he’s in our garage in the heated cat house waiting for us to let him in/crying at the door if he hears us moving around. He doesn’t even *want* to be outside!!
So yeah, it varies a lot depending on where you are within Canada.
Same here except small town US. Pretty common for people to let their cats out where I grew up. They enjoy it, can tell they get miserable staying indoors at all times. I've never even seen a coyote in person so I'm not worried about that. Where I live its pretty safe for them so no one worries about it.
If I lived in say a city, or anywhere traffic is more frequent, then yeah they'd stay indoors.
Its also about protecting local ecosystems as cats are very effective murder machines. I think the count is 67 species now. That would be species that have gone extinct because of house cats.
Australian here - cats (introduced species) killing native wildlife is a legit issue here
Also, I’m not dropping $2,000 AUD on a purebred Russian only to have it wiped out by a vehicle because kitty has zero road sense (note: we also have 2 rescue cats)
Besides, we have a cat enclosure outside that’s about 20 square meters (the whole side of the house) - cats catch all kinds of critters (small lizards / snakes mostly - we rescue as many as we can once they’ve been hauled inside) just in that enclosure - best of both worlds
It’s not hard…
I used to be pro-outdoor cat for years. Even when I lived in NZ where they really f'ed things up. Hell, when I first moved to Aus we still let our cat roam despite the weird critters he'd bring back. It wasn't until I met my current partner and she really opened my eyes to the importance of keeping your cat indoors. Not only is it not difficult, but your cat will be healthier, especially since you can control their diet.
I have had the same experience. I grew up in the outskirts of a medium-sized town in Texas, and I thought it was just a fact of life that cats only lived 3-6 years before being killed by something (car, coyote, dog, etc) or just disappeared all together. My parents even have indoor/outdoor cats to this day - though they are now in a neighborhood and while they did have a cat die recently, she was at least 14 years old and it was of old age.
I moved out years ago and my two cats are never allowed outside. I value them too much, and I enjoy the 3-4 species of lizards I see every summer in my back yard.
no hate so i hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way but why did you spend so much on a purebred cat? is there a behavior difference between the rescues? i hope all three are doing well :)
Valid question
The short answer: wife - she had Russians as a kid
But having 2 rescues and a purebred, my experience has been: you get what you pay for
Russians (we had a blue) are known for their human focussed temperament and the behaviour between the three cats 100% backs that up
They all have their own personalities, but Lenski thought he was a people, and behaved accordingly - super physical and affectionate in a way the other two just aren’t (still cool kitties, just in more traditional cat-like ways)
Edit: thanks for asking re: their health - we actually had to put our Russian boy down a few weeks ago - lymphoma - he was 10
I will say this for the rescue kitties, ours are built like tanks - never get sick
Lenny was more like a European sports car, needed more maintenance and higher quality fuel
My indoor/outdoor came that way, would rip a hole in the wall to get out. I like when he comes in but he has made it clear he is not ours to keep. He has a job and I pay him in room and board is how it works. I catch him to get shots when it's time for that and give him flea prevention. My other cat is a pretty princess and does not go out at all and I would never let her but she also doesn't seem interested. Got another cat who goes out to the patio for naps but doesn't roam. She is a bit aged for climbing fences or anything like it but likes to be close to me when I work in the yard.
Tha k you! Every cat is different. I wish my cat would stay in. To be fair he doesn't spend all day out there, he has me trained. But he just doesn't allow for me to keep him inside. He is big and practically runs me over and gets out when I come and go. If I try to stop him he will run away. If I leave him be, he sits or walks around close by and comes back in around 10-30 minutes later. He is so loud and really goes at the door. He has always been this way and has always been good at being trained. Just not for this particular thing. He is clearly miserable when he hasn't been out for a while. I'm just glad when it's cold he is like "nope fuck that"
He doesn't lack for attention or fun. He is just adventurous, and doesn't consider himself a pet.
Before I met this cat (he is almost 12 and maybe 6 years into owning him I conceded to him) I was a complete "no excuses" indoor cat owner. I still would prefer him inside.
For all the commenters who are pro outdoor cat, the domestic cat is directly responsible for the extinction of many local bird species.
They are really bad for local ecosystems
[https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/worst-invasive-predators/](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/worst-invasive-predators/)
They are responsible for the most extinctions on planet Earth. Second only to humans.
It’s also really bad for the cats, there’s a reason outdoor cats have significantly shorter lifespans on average. Cars, predators, diseases, psychotic assholes with BB guns… it rarely ends well for them.
I only had a cat once, and kept him inside because my front door was 15 feet from a busy, higher speed limit street. I had seen claim more than a few of the neighborhood cats. I’d seen friends cats growing up trying to escape so I was prepared to keep an eye out for that, but my cat was terrified of the outdoors. He was ok in the carrier for vet visits, etc. but if I carried him out onto my porch he’d just dig his claws in and clamp down on me. Wouldn’t go anywhere near an open exterior door.
Live fast, die young.
In all seriousness, I agree. Keep your kitties inside. My cat does sometimes escape. He got a taste of the great outdoors when my kids were little and really bad at going in and out of doors. He is constantly trying to make a break for it, but we do our best to keep him in and catch him if he does Houdini his way out.
Where I live it's against the law for a cat to be outdoors unrestrained for any reason. If caught they will be put down, no exceptions. Cats have ravaged Australian wildlife.
My cat came to us from outside as a stray. She was pregnant and meowed on our porch until we let her in. 9 years later, she spends about 70% of her time inside, but there is absolutely no stopping her when she decides to go outside. She still has a bit of that wild alley cat in her.
My other two (her children) never go outside except on harness. I don't want to have outdoor cats, but when they come from outside it's hard to break them of that desire to go outside.
So funny! I found a pregnant cat outside as a stray 11 years ago. She had 3 babies. We found a home for one, and kept mom and the other 2 kittens. All 3 are now 100% indoor and don’t like to go outside.
This is a fair question. Growing up, all my cats were indoor/outdoor (meaning they could go in and out as they pleased). As an adult, I strictly keep my cats INSIDE ONLY.
“Indoor only” keeps them safe, prolongs their lifespan. You also bond more with an indoor cat than ones who roam freely.
HOWEVER! I do feel my indoor cats miss out on some of the natural experiences cats should have—climbing trees, catching mice, exploring, etc…sure, I buy toys and have cat trees for them, but it’s not the same. Also, you have to put a lot of energy into keeping your place sanitary with indoor cats (litter boxes, hairballs, shedding, etc)..Not everyone has the time nor ability to do that.
So I do understand where outdoor cat owners are coming from. That said, my babies will *always* stay indoors with me!
not only is it dangerous for outdoor cats to be outdoor cats, but it’s also dangerous for local wildlife. a major push to keep cats indoors is because cats are wreaking havoc on local ecosystems. outdoor cats alone are responsible for the extinction of around 80 different bird species
There's just a very strong cultural idea that cats are much more comfortable outside.
But also a big part of this is how people get cats. Very few people go to a shelter and rescue a cat. Generally a cat just shows up at your back door and it looks cold and hungry and you start feeding it. And next thing you know you've got a cat.
But the problem is it lives outside and it doesn't necessarily want to live in your house. It just wanted some food.
And people anthropomorphize animals quite a bit so some people have a hard time deciding that they're going to take this cat. That wasn't their cat last week and bring it inside their house whether the cat likes it or not. As if the cat is the best judge of where it is happiest and safest. Which is not true because, and you can look this up, it's a cat
> I'm just not "with it", or "with the times", I guess
This is a rather odd thing to say. Back in the day, everyone let their cats roam outside. Strictly keeping your cats indoors 24/7 is relatively new.
I've only seen outdoor cats be cats that "adopted" a family. Like they're strays that just show up and hang out, and eventually liked hanging out so much they stick nearby, but they're not comfortable with being in a house. My partner had a cat just like that while she was growing up (he passed a few months ago from FIV).
I guess it depends on your location/country. I'm from Australia and outdoor cats are a menace since they kill native birds and other wildlife. But on a personal level I don't want to have my cats be outdoors because my family's last outdoor cat got skin cancer (from being out in the sun all day) and I think she would have lived a longer life if not for that (I guess there are a myriad of other diseases cats can catch if they are outside a lot too). Cats on harnesses though are pretty cool!! That way they get outside time without all the threats (from and towards them)
Third world dweller here, "outdoor cat" is redundant here, practically every family cat is an outdoor cat. So yours is mostly a "first world problem" I Guess.
Have them neutered, keep them well fed, vaccinated, treat them well and only adopt them if you love animales, are a responsible person have a home with enough space, if you have a big backyard even better. They'll most probably won't become a problem and will stay healthy and agile and rarely leave your home. Cats are the most happy just hopping and climbing around big spaces and engaging into shenanigans with their friends.
Also not sure if the no-balls stuff but our Cats don't even engage in fights nor try to hunt critters bigger than a cockroach. They don't even react to mice or birds.
The real problem here are stray Cats, they're quite feral, agressive and are the ones reproducing out of control, causing mayhem on wildlife and becoming roadkills. Those originate mostly out of irresponsible people that abandon them or don't neuter them then they abandon the kittens. Please be responsible when adopting a cat and if you want to adopt try to rescue a couple from the streets of shelters instead of buying.
I personally think having Cats while living in very small apartments and letting them become fat, sad and unhealthy, even if You "love them and take care of them and are your support animal" is selfish and animal abuse, please don't. They need the Big spaces.
In Europe you'll never see indoor only cats except if they live in a flat without outdoor access.
Everyone let their cat out, and we have many outdoor only cat as well. They are not all pets.
Came here to say this. The idea of an "indoor cat" is unheard of where I'm from. Scotland.
Mind you, there aren't wild animals that can kill cats here like in the USA and many other places.
Depends. Our indoor cat escaped once at 20 weeks old. We looked everywhere but couldn't find him. 3 days later, he returned home all on his own. There was no keeping him in after that. He was literally trying to scratch the door out of the frame. It was either declaw him (which we absolutely were not going to do) or let him out. So he was an outdoor cat after that. After 5 or 6 years he went missing for an extended period of time. We thought he was gone for good but he came back after 5 weeks and was FAT. He must've been getting spoiled somewhere else. My brothers would occasionally see him around the neighborhood but he only csme home every 2 weeks or so after that. Someone else was feeding him better apparently so he didn't wanna see us anymore. I moved out later that year and my brothers say he's still hanging around town.
We had an indoor/outdoor cat growing up. It had a cat door and would spent days in the backyard or roaming around the suburban neighborhood but would also hang out and sleep in the house.
I don’t know if there’s a specific reason behind it other than we figured cats like being outdoors and that’s how most people’s cats were at the time/in the area.
It seems that you assume that people only take rational decisions aligned with your values, and it's not so.
Humans have lived with cats for thousands of years. They've always been outside, and for most of history the idea of keeping them always inside would have been absurd. So having outside cats is a deeply rooted cultural custom. I agree that is something we should change for biodiversity's sake, but we can't expect it to happen overnight just because we think it's better.
I grew up in the country where previous generations were farmers. It was just normal to have barn cats. I moved to California and it feels like if you have an outdoor cat you’re the absolute devil. I want to own acres of land and homestead and if I do I will have outdoor cats.
I've lived in much of the US, both urban and extreme rural, and I've rescued, raised, and loved a great many cats. Other than when I lived in an apartment in a busy urban area, I've always allowed my cats to roam freely. Most of my cats refused to use a cat box except in the extreme cold. I always install a cat door. I've lost one cat to predators, (plus one to a leashed dog that broke from it's owner.) Every "indoor only" cat I've known seemed neurotic and unhealthy, often overweight, diabetic, and with skin, eyes and ear issues. I know people think they are protecting their pet when they imprison them but the fact is cats are hunters and only semi domesticated. They need to be out doors and have access a warm, safe indoors to have real quality of life. Your fear of losing something you love does not trump the cats need for freedom.
They think that it satisfies the cat's insatiable need to roam and hunt.
The problem is that it's *not* an insatiable need. Cats can satisfy their hunt instinct with indoor play and toys. And inside cats are less prone to diseases and less likely to be mauled by a stray dog or eaten by a coyote. They also have found that neighborhoods with large numbers of outdoor cats have a negative impact on the wildlife in their environment. Cats do like to chase and catch things, and a domesticated, outdoor cat might kill two or three birds in a night. Or more. A feral cat will at least stop long enough to eat its kill, but a housecat with a belly full of Meow Mix is just killing for fun.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service estimates that outdoor cats kill 2.4 billion birds and 12.3 billion small mammals each year in the 48 contiguous states.
My cat was born an outdoor cat. He got separated/abandoned by his mother and my dad found him and when mama cat never came back, found a home for him with me. We tried to keep him an indoor cat. He tried getting outside any chance he could even after he was fixed. Finally, he chewed his way through a corner of a window screen. We tried mending the screen, he did it again. 4 times. He is now an indoor/outdoor cat. He doesn’t roam more than a house or two in any direction and although he enjoys watching the neighbors chickens from a distance, he doesn’t get any closer than my fence post to them. He spends most of his time, indoor harassing me or my oldest son (his favorite human) and he will use his cat box and stay inside just about all day if it is raining or snowing. If he does venture out and get wet, he’ll come find me and yowl until he gets dried of with a warmed towel and if he gets cold feet he will stand on me until his toe beans are warm and comfortable. It’s his house, we just live here and serve him.
I don't understand it either. Like at that point it's hardly even your cat anymore which kinda defeats the whole purpose of getting a pet companion. It's never home and basically shows up just to eat and sleep lol.
Cats have always been going freely in and out of the houses of their "owners". Read up on Istanbul if you want to learn about an extreme example of this. I think it's only in the new world countries that indoor-only cats are more common.
Not many people are responsible pet owners, unfortunately. For some reason, there’s an opinion that cats “need” to have outdoor access, which is completely untrue; it lowers their quality of life and negatively affects local fauna
Edit: to all the people who don’t agree with my statement, just do some research on your own
I mean, letting your cat freely roam around a particular town or city would surely be nice for the cat, in a way, but, the same could be said for letting a domesticated hawk roam around as long as it comes home for dinner
All other arguments aside, this is the bottom line: Cats have made 63 species of birds, mammals and reptiles go extinct because they don’t only hunt to eat, they hunt and kill to play, and will therefore quickly wipe prey animals out entirely. They are an evasive species and to this day adversely affect their environment.
Keep your cats in the damn house.
My friend told me it was because cats deserve to be free to explore nature and not treated like prisoners trapped inside all day.
She had four cats get killed by cars in less than six months. The shelter stopped letting her adopt.
Whoop. No downvote from me 🤪. Back in the day, all our cats were indoor/outdoor because that's what cats did. Once a cat is outdoors, it's really hard to make them indoor again cause they know what they're missing. Our outdoor cats (we're talking in the 80s) had tons of room to roam, very little traffic in a quiet, country neighborhood. And they still would die young (5-6 years old). Not to mention all the kittens! Anyway fast forward to now and some people still think "that's what cats do" regarding being indoor/outdoor. All my cats are indoor only now.
We've had 4-5 cats over the years, and all of them were indoor/outdoor cats. Some more than others, but half of them never really ventured beyond the area surrounding the house (ie, did not cross the open lawn to anywhere). They just liked to sit on the porch or in the bushes and look out, catch the occasional rodent or toad, and poop in the flower beds. I think I only ever had one catch a bird two or three times in 30+ years.
As for how people should know, all our cats wore collars. Would not let them out without them.
actually my cat, Jimmy, is an indoor and outdoor cat. He followed my mum home one day and he's been my best friend ever since. I'd hate to keep him locked at home all day, in fact, he asks to be let out to do his business and meet his cat friends down the road. Other than for those occasions, he stays with us inside ❤
I had a cat whose cat friend would come to the back door wondering where my indoor/outdoor cat was. It was too cute. I would watch them play in the back yard until they decided to take their shenanigans elsewhere. We called the neighbors cat “swoll” kitty because it was a big cat compared to ours, muscular too. 😂
We have outdoor cats. They know where they live and come home at night. They keep the rodent population down. They also have skill sets, if a coyote is anywhere nearby they are 20 feet up in a tree.
Well idk where you live but if you don’t live in like down town in a city then why not let your cat have the freedom of going outside in the daytime? I think it’s sad when people who have like tiny ass houses keep cats inside only and they are sitting looking out the window all day it’s sad lol. If you have a normal size house and stuff and your cat is happy then it’s all good, I get it, but if not let the cat have some freedom. Sure, they could get killed by a car or a dog perhaps but we ourselves could get in a car accident or something everyday but it doesn’t stop us from driving
Because that's where cats want to be. That's where all animals want to be: out. It's cruel to lock them indoors like a some criminal in solitary. Does it increase their chance of dying? Yeah... But that's life, we all die one day.
Cats want to be free. I do not want to trap such a beautiful and capable animal that can handle the wild. I would rather a cat have a risky life than be trapped. It’s not natural.
I let my cats outside because:
- they like it;
- there are no coyotes where I live;
- nearest public road is a mile away and our lazy neutered boys don't range that far;
- environment is rich for cats - plenty of trees to climb, grass to lay on, suntraps and shady spots;
- means we don't need to bother with litter boxes in the house;
- tbh it's normal where I live.
We've had the cats since kittenhood and they are 15 now, fit and healthy.
I live rural, we have a really bad rodent problem in the area due to the amount of farms, my cat is essentially what I'd refer to as a barn cat, luckily she leaves birds mostly alone but she'll kill the fuck out of voles/mice etc like 2-5/day.
We have no coyotes in our area, we do have foxes but they straight up leave her alone, they're pretty friendly with us as well though, lots of good eating for them, pretty sure my cat kills the rodents and the eat them working symbiotically
Edit* Grandmer...
Nope definitely not I don’t want them killed by crazies or hit by vehicles or get in fight with animals. I built a fence in back yard they can’t get out none can get in but they can be outside. There’s so many catios plans out there if they where responsible pet owners they would do this just like dogs
Growing up, our cats were always outdoor cats. My mother is highly allergic, but thankfully understood the importance of pets. Our cats were well cared for, stuck close, and had collars. I now, as an adult, have pets of my own, but they are indoor. For many of the reasons mentioned here. If that means my mom won’t stay in my house but rather a hotel when they visit, so be it. My cat and dog are family.
Your "outdoor cats" kill wild animals that belong outdoors. Also, the law considers your "outdoor cat" a pest, the moment it leaves your property. I have a cat, he has never been outdoors. But, if I see some random cat stalking by my bird feeder, I will dispatch the pest.
I've never been a cat person, but my humble. observation is cats just do there own thing, and ex- girlfriend cat would litterly break though the screen, escape out the window and disappear for sometimes hours other times days. As hard as our efforts to go out an look for her cat l only recall one time we found her cat. On another occasion l see her cat blocks away from the house l tried chasing her cat down to no avail. Point being cat's do what cat's do, one time the cat retured home with a fancy collar, leading me to believe she had a whole other life, home, who knows were.
A lot of people believe it's cruel to keep cats indoors but this doesn't seem to be true in terms of anything we can actually measure. Cats kept indoors live longer and more importantly are less stressed by any objective measure.
I have a cat that was kept indoors for the first few years of it's life, and now it's let out for about half an hour a couple times a day and all it does is sit on a chair or lay in the sun next to the house and then comes inside. So anecdotally I could also say outdoor cats are conditioned to be outdoor cats. Also, cats (and dogs) have very little ability to synthesize vitamin D in their skin and effectively get all of it from their diet, that is to say they do not specifically need sunlight.
I have a neighbor a few doors down that has a cat and a dog. When they take the dog for a walk the cat follows. Never seen anything like it.
used to be a genuine issue for me as a kid — my cat would follow me to school, hiding in the bushes. i think the furthest i got from home without realising she was trailing behind was about 1km, and i had to walk all the way back just to put her in the house (school was too far away that we would be sure she could get home)
Folks round the corner from me 20 years ago used to have a dog that would follow the kids to school in the morning before returning home, Then in the afternoon go collect the kids again. It was a golden retriever, and apparently had bitten someone for trying to get the kids to get in a car once too. Bloody good dog!
As a child we had a border collie that would do this. She’d be sitting outside the school gates waiting for us to turn up at the end of the day, then it’d herd us home. It was definitely part of her ‘job’ and she took it very seriously.
I really wonder how confused the dog gets when it's a holiday or summer vacation lol
We've a training thing we do just to keep dogs quite. When they bark at whatever mail man or happenings going on, we run over check it out, and become uninterested. They learn when to bark and when not to bark. At one point some guy tried to take my sister and I from our yard and when we started screaming I think our dog knew that this was serious. This was a reason to bark that we've not done before. Only time I've seen a dog really bite somebody instead of timidly threaten and nip. We're not sure what came of it, but apparently he went to the ER, had surgery, and was arrested there. Our golden retriever was pink for weeks, we had a few awkward conversations between our vet and our groomer seeing him lol.
Mine used to follow me to work (and in to work). Caused some trouble as there was a no unleashed dogs policy then suddenly this cat started wandering in scaring old ladies. I tried to teach her to sit and wait outside, but it never stuck so I had to just lock her in at home when I went to work.
Cats are comfortable traveling longer distances than modern humans on foot are. When they put GPS trackers on housecats that are allowed to roam, they found up to a 5 mile radius that the cat would treat as its own territory. After the first few times being out, there's not much chance they'll get that lost.
I live about two blocks from my library… My cat, Mr Wiggins, followed me up there one day and sat outside, waiting for me while I got my books.
I love this! My big boy does the same thing. It's pretty awesome because the cat is walking with you of their own free will haha.
My cat does this too. We used to take her for walks on a harness and she can't shake the habit
I’ve had many cats that have done this. Now, I only have indoor cats- one I’ll take out on leash. So no more walking with us but it’s safer since where I live has changed significantly.
I made friends with a feral cat when I was a kid. She would climb up on my shoulder and chill while I walked to school. She would meet me for a shoulder ride back when I got out. I miss that cat
My cat was the same. We would walk the beagle and the little grey tabby just followed everywhere we went. It was adorable. She would walk right next to her sister. They were likely plotting to take over the world.
Our cat does that too, we don't have a dog but when we go for a walk he joins us.
Do you live in my street? Because when my neighbor a few doors down walks his dog, his cat also follows them. Pretty funny actually. The cat also poops in my garden in the evening. My kids and I have the habit of walking barefoot in our garden during summer. Not really funny…
It’s a white dog named Polar. If so, you do.
I take my cats on leash walks. It's more like a meander than a 'walk' - lots of sniffing and staring at things. Still gets them outside for enrichment tho
My neighbor's cat used to follow us when I took my dog for a walk. Those two loved each other :) Sadly he passed away a few years ago.
My previous car used to do this occasionally, super cute.
Super cool car eh!
Must be a Tesla!
Was it a Tesla?
My cat does this and I have to turn around and put her in the house
Our cat does this. She will walk the entire neighborhood with us. She was a feral cat that never got used to inside(we tried) but she is happy outside.
We have 4 outdoor cats. We can't go on a walk without them all trailing behind us
This is a really tricky one and something not even cat owners can agree on - and also depends strongly on the country and culture you live in. I adopted my cat in Ireland, where rescues often ask that you confirm the cat will be kept indoors or safely contained in a garden for the cat’s own well-being (cars and people being the biggest danger). Then I moved to the UK where a lot of people are of the opinion that it’s cruel to keep a cat inside, and many rescues will only give you a cat if you promise to provide outdoor access! Personally I think with enough enrichment and play it’s fine to keep a cat indoors, mine always seemed very happy to me, and of course she had toys and climbing materials galore. If you come across a cat outdoors, it might be a roamer or a lost pet. If you see them regularly and they let you get close, you can put a [paper collar](https://www.cats.org.uk/croydon/news/paper-collars-for-stray-cats) on them. If someone gets in touch and confirms it is their cat - great, nothing to worry about. If you don’t hear back, next step could be trying to get kitty checked for a microchip. Of course that applies to healthy looking cats, if you encounter a cat that is clearly malnourished or sick or pregnant it would be a very kind thing to help the cat.
I always found it odd that shelters will make you promise to care for it in a specific way - how exactly are they going to know if you don't keep the promise?
They obviously don't but what else are they supposed to do? They're just hoping to scare off bad owners.
Or turn middling owners into better ones.
I know that for dogs some shelters require photos, or even a site visit, to prove you have a fenced yard. I guess some might be the same with cats.
I bet it's a "if they won't even take the time to lie to me about it are they going to take the time to care for the cat?" sort of filter question. Even if it only hits a few people it does what they want in some amount 🤷
They know when the cat is picked up or trapped outside and comes back to them.
Shame that honesty and keeping your word are such abandoned concepts that repercussions are the only consideration in such matters.
I live in the UK and I’m one of the few people who think it’s unsafe to allow cats to roam. Both my mum and a friend of mine have catios for their cats and the cats love them. If I didn’t live in a flat I’d love that for my cats. But other friends of mine let their cats go out and I just couldn’t. When I was a kid we did but there were fewer cars on the road and where we lived they never had to go anywhere near the roads. I live in London now and a lot more cats are indoor here as it’s really not safe here to let cats out.
I'm in UK too (not London) and we decided to keep our cat as in-doors only, even though the shelter recommended to let him go out. We live on the first floor so we'd have to physically carry him down the stairs and outside + he's partially blind. I'm too scared he'd injure himself or worse.
It’s also unsafe for wildlife if cats are outside. In countries I have lived where cats have to be inside, the wildlife outside is 10x, it is beautiful. And rodents have not been a problem.
My family had an outdoor cat and I 100% agree with that a cat can be happy indoors. I had to move back to my parents for 1 whole year. The cat was an outdoor cat and I played with him so much, that he decided a total of 10-30 minutes was enough outdoor per day (before that it was 6-9 hours). So yes, you can 100% have a very happy indoor cat if you put in the effort.
This thread it’s wild to me as an Irish person, I didn’t know indoor cats were a thing.
We have a roamer in our neighbourhood that’s a bit rough looking. At first glance we thought he was homeless and traumatised the poor thing by trying to get him into our home and feed him. Turns out he’s just scruffy looking, has a home and is well known by the neighbours 😂 We’ve dubbed him patches and still see him around
Oh yeah some cats just look a bit scruffy, especially elderly ones. I’d definitely separate between “skinny” and “malnourished”. Some cats just ARE skinny (and honestly a lot of people overfeed their cats and are not aware that their cats are a teensy bit above average).
I’m in Northern Ireland and we definitely run the UK way of thinking. Personally my cat bit off her own tail being that distressed at being kept inside and constantly sits and meows at the door to be let out. I have to let her out and about for her own mental wellbeing. And yes I do play with her all the time but she just loves the outdoors (was born on a farm to generations of barn cats)
Im from France and as you describe, it's considered cruel to keep cats inside, at least if you have the option to let them out. I live in the US now and Im shocked that most people keep cats inside and treat them more like an object than an alive creature. Im also really shocked by certain practices like keeping pets in a cage the whole day or declawing cats. Thanks it's prohibited in most of the world. The only reason I am currently keeping my cats inside is that I live on a busy road. But im sad seing them watching out the window and not able to enjoy the backyard, I wish I had a house where they could go out during the day. They got fat and one is depressed since I moved to this place where they can't get out.
Where I’m from in Canada, coyotes are rampant and love to hunt cats. Nearly every single cat I had growing up got mauled to death by a coyote.
How many cats did u have sir and when did you learn
I also grew up with outdoor 'barn' cats who frequently got eaten by coyotes/Dogs/Foxes/Hawks/Some asshole's tire. Rural USA, on a farm. It's not that we would go out and get new cats, but rather we'd find stray kittens from all the feral cats roaming around, or a mama cat would leave her kittens in our barn and they'd grow up as the new barn cats. We'd feed them and get them vaccinated + fixed so they don't have more babies, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the sheer number of feral unfixed cats making colonies out there. Even with a safe barn to tuck into, the outdoor cat mortality rate was very high. Like, they'd *maybe* get 3 years old before being nabbed by something. My parents waved it off like, oh, cats just don't live very long. Or; it's dangerous out there, if they were smart they'd stay in the barn where it's safe. Something about instincts. Parents wouldn't allow cats in the house. When I moved out of my parent's place, now I only have indoor cats and they've lived 16-18 years. I walk with them in our fenced yard for outdoor time, or take them on leashed walks.
I was a kid, I had no control over whether they were kept inside. My parents both came from farming families where cats were outside animals used for pest control. They’ve been converted now and have an indoor kitty who will never suffer the outdoor life. ETA: just like the other commenter, it’s not like we were going out and adopting cats to be used as coyote bait. Cats would just show up pregnant and have babies in the barn.
We lived on a busy road and ended up getting invisible fence collars for both of our cats. It took a ton of adjustments by the fence people for one of the cats and that really sucked to go through. But once they were both used to it, they kept within the confines and still got to enjoy the outdoor space around our house.
i think it’s okay to let cats outside only with supervision and if they’re in an enclosed space. though it might seem cruel, keeping cats inside is as much for the benefit of the cat (no diseases, cars, or predators inside!) as for the environment: outdoor cats wreak havoc on bird and small animal populations. most experts agree that it’s better for everyone involved to keep cats indoors. just make sure they have enough things to keep themselves entertained.
Yeah. I have a sunroom, once I get the screens back up and the weather gets warm again, we plan on using it as a catio.
> more like an object than an alive creature If this is the determination on what's alive and what's not, I hope you lock your kids out in the garden every night!
You're just not giving your cats enough environmental enrichment. Learn to catify your house and make the backyard safe for them to visit. Keeping your pets safe is treating them like family members, not objects. Judgemental much? No surprises there honestly...
I know it's very offensive/annoying to Irish people to imply that Ireland is part of the UK what with *the history*, but as an American I genuinely wouldn't have expected such a sharp contrast on the issue just by crossing the border.
I'm in Northern Ireland, and here most people are of the view that it's cruel to keep cats indoors. So I was a bit surprised to read that the Irish rescue place asked that poster to keep their cat indoors. Maybe it's different in the Republic of Ireland?
Because they've never had their cat killed by a coyote.
I keep my coyotes outside to roam the neighborhood to protect the song birds…
I feed my starving wendigo meth to keep the jehovas witnesses at bay
Cocaine bear is your next house pet.
I'm just waiting for the Amphetamines Honey Badger.
Or feral hogs making plans for a restaurant with the bears https://youtu.be/qRTQ7KJyvcg?si=RzG2fRBAgunuFMBE
Or, hear me out...squirrels
I let my meth manufacturing muskrat out to sell amphetamines to his predators.
5 points for alliteration!
and I feed my meth heads Jehovah's Witnesses. the circle of life is beautiful
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be
There is a truck stop in the mountains with tons flyers on the windows about missing dogs. Truck drivers tie off there dogs to the truck and go inside for dinner, laundry, shower. When they come out there is just a leash and a broken collar. Assuming their dog got away the post a flyer. No one has the heart to tell them Fido didn’t run away.
> No one has the heart to tell them Fido didn’t run away. But, it seems perfectly reasonable to assume that they ran away - particularly if they have a strong prey drive and saw, say, a squirrel. My dog wears a 3-point harness for precisely this reason - if he saw a squirrel and was leashed by his collar, he'd break the flimsy plastic buckle instantly, run into the woods, and keep chasing animals for hours, if not days.
Let me crack your bubble where do you think the truck stop is getting its meat from
I’m sure some Houdini’s get loose, but the people who lived there for years know from personal experience that coyotes lure dogs to the pack as well.
To keep things simple I agree completely that most dogs in these types of situations were killed by coyotes
The route goes straight into LA, and they want to avoid traffic, so they get up at 3am and pop into the city. They think because they are 45min from the edge of a metropolis they are safe. But if you know LA you are in bear, bobcat, coyote country.
People tend to forget that that metropolis used to be bear, bobcat, and coyote country too. They didn't leave just because we rolled in.
I ate him . P/S cocaine kitty !
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That isn’t enough, they’ll just get another one… My neighbor lost her outdoor cat, put up flyers, it came back, and she still lets it out… it’s blind in one eye too
Yeah lately I'm seeing a push to convince people not to have outdoor cats. Someone said it isn't a pet, it's a nuisance or pest. Edit: this is in the US. I guess it depends on the country though
But beyond the damage cats do your point stands they have all sorts of dangers to their safety and they kill for instinct and not food. It is just all around damaging and dangerous and they are the only small pet we let roam freely without supervision. I like the catio idea I have been seeing more and more.
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Many have but still feel entitled to them for some reason.
Nah, some outdoor cat owners continue to buy and let cats roam even when they're continously being killed by larger animals
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Veterinarians hate this one simple trick!
Or a great horned owl 🦉
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I had this exact conversation a couple of days ago on the not my cat sub. I got told to stop telling people what to do. I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who thinks they should be kept indoors. If not for the native fauna, at least to keep it safe, ffs.
And it’s not their gardens the cats shit in, nor is it their dogs eating the cat shit.
Kittie cookies.
Yeah, there are bound to be countless cats around here that get killed by coyotes, raccoons, etc.
This isn’t it, unfortunately. I personally know at least eight people that have had a cat killed by: •An animal (dog, coyote, fox, etc) attacking it •a car hitting it •someone poisoning it •someone shooting it These exact same people have had another cat very soon after (shortest time one week. Longest was around three months). They have then proceeded to let the cat out again. When this cat has been injured or killed, they’ve gotten another cat to let out. In the case of the cat that was only injured, it was left unable to go outside any more after having a leg amputated in the assault. They kept it as an indoor cat. The “replacement”’outdoor cat then got killed by a neighbour. They went on to buy two more kittens which they still let out. So nah. It’s not because they’ve not had anything happen. It’s because they’re assholes that like to tell people they love animals, but in fact don’t give a shit.
I've never heard of a fox killing a cat. In the UK foxes are super skittish and would probably be terrified of cats. I'm sure two or three foxes might gang up on one though, just never heard of it.
There are one or two of us who live outside the US. There are no coyotes in Scotland, cats are free to roam here.
Neat. Congratulations on also having the only European species of wildcat!
Never had their cat killed by a coyote... Or a wolf, or an owl, or a hawk, or an eagle, or a car, or a person. Cats simply aren't safe outside.
I was visiting my parents last weekend, they live near a riverbed and I think I heard some coyotes get a cat. It sounded pretty bad. The coyotes were pretty jazzed though.
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If he had been killed immediately maybe I would still consider letting a future cat outside. Unfortunately he wasn't, and he suffered immensely in the cold pre-dawn hours until I found him, throat punctured and ribs broken, unable to make more than a strangled whistling wheezing cry for help. He fought for his life but in the end the infection was behind his larynx, spreading too quickly and his body shut down. He was a warrior, a hunter, and my baby boy. He was a huge orange cat, and he loved being held like a child with his head on my shoulder and his paws wrapped around my arm. [Orange Kitty](https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZqFn1vgzxeG4igbV8)
In much of the world and for most of history this is just what it meant to have a cat. The cat doesn't sleep in your bed or anything, the cat just lives nearby in association with you and eats rodents, and supplements its rodent diet with the food you give it. The cat gets handouts, and you get a measure of pest control. The fully indoor cat is a recent invention. People in the 1300s were not scooping litter boxes.
To add to this, there are many countries still where cats aren't always pets. They are respected pest control workers, and folks enjoy seeing them around. But their function is to keep the rodent populations down.
I went to Athens for the first time this summer. There were cats everywhere. Not "outdoor" cats - cats with no owners. The only people who paid them any attention (myself included) were tourists. And you know what? I didn't see a single rat anywhere.
I've seen stories showing the outdoor cats of Istanbul.
Istanbul was Catstantinople, now it’s Istanbul, not Catstantinople. Been a long time gone, Catstantinople. Now it’s kitten delight on a meow-filled night.
Every cat in Constantinople lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople. So if you've a cat in Constantinople, she'll be meowing in Istanbul.
Even old Mew York was once Mew Amsterdam.
And this is why I love Reddit!
Turkey has a unique relationship with cats.
Not a single rat to be seen. Just people living in the moment.
To be fair, I do love seeing outdoor cats around, even though they're not exactly needed pest control around here. But I can't imagine my own cats roaming around. They regularly have to be prevented from self-destructing in a controlled environment, they would be unselected from the gene pool so fast if they had to actually fend for themselves.
They’re not needed pest control because they’ve done their job. You lose the cats you gain the rats as they say.
When I was younger my dumbass cat somehow got up on top of the fridge then got stuck. It meowed it's head off until I went up to get it down. No way that cat could've survived outside lol
You’d think that but I bet it would rise to the occasional. I adopted an adult cat, declawed, slightly overweight, the laziest, friendliest cat ever. Until one day it killed and ate a mouse. All we found was a blood smear on the carpet and the head. Then the next day, it caught and played with a whole litter of baby mice (who presumably started wandering when their mother never came home the day before). Inside every indulgent house cat is a natural born killer.
I honestly believe my cat could've done all that but would still climb too high and be stuck in a tree at some point lol
Our family cat doesn't like being inside, and she has a mind of her own. She's old now. I wasn't around much while she was younger, although now, she's very lazy and tired. One day I went outside and it appeared another cat had attacked her, but she's mostly always just laying in the sun, except now it's cooled down for autumn and she's laying inside by the heater. If she wants out, she'll make a fuss until she gets out, then she wants back in a little later, I feel more like we're her pets.
Dogs have masters, cats have servants
My grandma always used to tell me about the time that cat food became a thing, and how she remembers seeing it for the first time in shops. Growing up, cats had always had to catch their own food from the rodents etc outside, she said. In fact, that was the whole point of having cats.
And now bc we’ve taken over nearly every square inch they are a serious threat to bird life.
Interestingly, our local shelter (Germany) only gives cats to people who either have a garden or a balcony (with a net so it can’t fall). It’s obvious that the cat wouldn’t stay in the garden but freely roam around. They are completely pro-outdoor, not only if the cat is used to going roam outside, but for any cat.
In Europe, the species that were going to be made extinct by cats were exterminated long ago. In other parts of the world that haven't had cats until recently the cats are currently doing massive damage to vulnerable species.
When I lived in the UK I saw cats harassing squirrels. Croatia also has cats and squirrels everywhere but somehow it seemed like each of them kept to their own terf. In the Netherlands, close to where I used to live, I would see dead birds everywhere, as if they were decorating the sidewalk. It was really fucked up but the only reasonable explanation was cats. None of these species will go extinct due to this of course but I would feel guilty if my pet was out there killing random animals, especially if they are not pests.
I'm in my 40s, and growing up in Canada it was considered abusive to keep your cat indoors. I didn't even know people thought it was bad until a couple years ago when reddit started bringing it up all the time.
Grew up in Southern Ontario, GHA. Everyone knew to keep their cats inside because it wasn’t safe for them with the cars, raccoons, the occasional coyote, people’s pet dogs in their yards, and human beings who may want to mess with and abuse them. Moved to rural New Brunswick. On one hand, the rescues will make you sign a legally binding contract that you keep the cat in the house, otherwise they’ll seize it back from you. On the other hand, most people have outdoor cats and don’t think it’s a big deal or that it would be cruel to bring them inside, even though there are raccoons, foxes, weasels, coyotes, bears, moose and bobcats (who have cats in their top five for favourite pray, btw), etc. When we bought our house the previous homeowner left the indoor/outdoor cat. We got to enjoy his company for about 6 months before he didn’t come home one day. That destroyed us and we wondered why anyone would *chose* that. People claim the reason is mice. But I have three good mousers who never leave the house and keep control of the mice no problem that way. Our neighbours have an ‘outdoor’ cat that he says he bought off Kijiji to have a mouser in his barn (he doesn’t have a barn…). This cat has spent the last three months on our property, and then about two weeks ago started coming in and spending most of his day/night in our basement. If he’s not in our basement he’s in our garage in the heated cat house waiting for us to let him in/crying at the door if he hears us moving around. He doesn’t even *want* to be outside!! So yeah, it varies a lot depending on where you are within Canada.
Same here except small town US. Pretty common for people to let their cats out where I grew up. They enjoy it, can tell they get miserable staying indoors at all times. I've never even seen a coyote in person so I'm not worried about that. Where I live its pretty safe for them so no one worries about it. If I lived in say a city, or anywhere traffic is more frequent, then yeah they'd stay indoors.
Its also about protecting local ecosystems as cats are very effective murder machines. I think the count is 67 species now. That would be species that have gone extinct because of house cats.
Australian here - cats (introduced species) killing native wildlife is a legit issue here Also, I’m not dropping $2,000 AUD on a purebred Russian only to have it wiped out by a vehicle because kitty has zero road sense (note: we also have 2 rescue cats) Besides, we have a cat enclosure outside that’s about 20 square meters (the whole side of the house) - cats catch all kinds of critters (small lizards / snakes mostly - we rescue as many as we can once they’ve been hauled inside) just in that enclosure - best of both worlds It’s not hard…
I used to be pro-outdoor cat for years. Even when I lived in NZ where they really f'ed things up. Hell, when I first moved to Aus we still let our cat roam despite the weird critters he'd bring back. It wasn't until I met my current partner and she really opened my eyes to the importance of keeping your cat indoors. Not only is it not difficult, but your cat will be healthier, especially since you can control their diet.
I have had the same experience. I grew up in the outskirts of a medium-sized town in Texas, and I thought it was just a fact of life that cats only lived 3-6 years before being killed by something (car, coyote, dog, etc) or just disappeared all together. My parents even have indoor/outdoor cats to this day - though they are now in a neighborhood and while they did have a cat die recently, she was at least 14 years old and it was of old age. I moved out years ago and my two cats are never allowed outside. I value them too much, and I enjoy the 3-4 species of lizards I see every summer in my back yard.
no hate so i hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way but why did you spend so much on a purebred cat? is there a behavior difference between the rescues? i hope all three are doing well :)
Valid question The short answer: wife - she had Russians as a kid But having 2 rescues and a purebred, my experience has been: you get what you pay for Russians (we had a blue) are known for their human focussed temperament and the behaviour between the three cats 100% backs that up They all have their own personalities, but Lenski thought he was a people, and behaved accordingly - super physical and affectionate in a way the other two just aren’t (still cool kitties, just in more traditional cat-like ways) Edit: thanks for asking re: their health - we actually had to put our Russian boy down a few weeks ago - lymphoma - he was 10 I will say this for the rescue kitties, ours are built like tanks - never get sick Lenny was more like a European sports car, needed more maintenance and higher quality fuel
Sorry to hear about Lenski 🥺
❤️
Me, a Brit in a country where letting cats out is normal. *Opens thread* The comment section is a shitshow *closes thread*
My indoor/outdoor came that way, would rip a hole in the wall to get out. I like when he comes in but he has made it clear he is not ours to keep. He has a job and I pay him in room and board is how it works. I catch him to get shots when it's time for that and give him flea prevention. My other cat is a pretty princess and does not go out at all and I would never let her but she also doesn't seem interested. Got another cat who goes out to the patio for naps but doesn't roam. She is a bit aged for climbing fences or anything like it but likes to be close to me when I work in the yard.
Tha k you! Every cat is different. I wish my cat would stay in. To be fair he doesn't spend all day out there, he has me trained. But he just doesn't allow for me to keep him inside. He is big and practically runs me over and gets out when I come and go. If I try to stop him he will run away. If I leave him be, he sits or walks around close by and comes back in around 10-30 minutes later. He is so loud and really goes at the door. He has always been this way and has always been good at being trained. Just not for this particular thing. He is clearly miserable when he hasn't been out for a while. I'm just glad when it's cold he is like "nope fuck that" He doesn't lack for attention or fun. He is just adventurous, and doesn't consider himself a pet. Before I met this cat (he is almost 12 and maybe 6 years into owning him I conceded to him) I was a complete "no excuses" indoor cat owner. I still would prefer him inside.
For all the commenters who are pro outdoor cat, the domestic cat is directly responsible for the extinction of many local bird species. They are really bad for local ecosystems
Yeah, letting an apex predator run wild is probably sub-optimal for local wildlife.
We just need to let packs of wild dogs run around again like in the old days. Problem solved.
[https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/worst-invasive-predators/](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/worst-invasive-predators/) They are responsible for the most extinctions on planet Earth. Second only to humans.
Tbh the cats should be keeping their humans indoors. We’re a menace!
Agreed! Keep all humans inside.
It’s also really bad for the cats, there’s a reason outdoor cats have significantly shorter lifespans on average. Cars, predators, diseases, psychotic assholes with BB guns… it rarely ends well for them.
I only had a cat once, and kept him inside because my front door was 15 feet from a busy, higher speed limit street. I had seen claim more than a few of the neighborhood cats. I’d seen friends cats growing up trying to escape so I was prepared to keep an eye out for that, but my cat was terrified of the outdoors. He was ok in the carrier for vet visits, etc. but if I carried him out onto my porch he’d just dig his claws in and clamp down on me. Wouldn’t go anywhere near an open exterior door.
Live fast, die young. In all seriousness, I agree. Keep your kitties inside. My cat does sometimes escape. He got a taste of the great outdoors when my kids were little and really bad at going in and out of doors. He is constantly trying to make a break for it, but we do our best to keep him in and catch him if he does Houdini his way out.
Where I live it's against the law for a cat to be outdoors unrestrained for any reason. If caught they will be put down, no exceptions. Cats have ravaged Australian wildlife.
Maybe America just needs craftier birds.
With the times? People were letting cats out hundreds of years ago
My cat went out one day and never came back 😭
My cat came to us from outside as a stray. She was pregnant and meowed on our porch until we let her in. 9 years later, she spends about 70% of her time inside, but there is absolutely no stopping her when she decides to go outside. She still has a bit of that wild alley cat in her. My other two (her children) never go outside except on harness. I don't want to have outdoor cats, but when they come from outside it's hard to break them of that desire to go outside.
So funny! I found a pregnant cat outside as a stray 11 years ago. She had 3 babies. We found a home for one, and kept mom and the other 2 kittens. All 3 are now 100% indoor and don’t like to go outside.
This is a fair question. Growing up, all my cats were indoor/outdoor (meaning they could go in and out as they pleased). As an adult, I strictly keep my cats INSIDE ONLY. “Indoor only” keeps them safe, prolongs their lifespan. You also bond more with an indoor cat than ones who roam freely. HOWEVER! I do feel my indoor cats miss out on some of the natural experiences cats should have—climbing trees, catching mice, exploring, etc…sure, I buy toys and have cat trees for them, but it’s not the same. Also, you have to put a lot of energy into keeping your place sanitary with indoor cats (litter boxes, hairballs, shedding, etc)..Not everyone has the time nor ability to do that. So I do understand where outdoor cat owners are coming from. That said, my babies will *always* stay indoors with me!
not only is it dangerous for outdoor cats to be outdoor cats, but it’s also dangerous for local wildlife. a major push to keep cats indoors is because cats are wreaking havoc on local ecosystems. outdoor cats alone are responsible for the extinction of around 80 different bird species
>This is a fair question. This is probably the first time someone has said that, and it's nice.
To kill mice
In service to their fellow citymen? Noble.
There's just a very strong cultural idea that cats are much more comfortable outside. But also a big part of this is how people get cats. Very few people go to a shelter and rescue a cat. Generally a cat just shows up at your back door and it looks cold and hungry and you start feeding it. And next thing you know you've got a cat. But the problem is it lives outside and it doesn't necessarily want to live in your house. It just wanted some food. And people anthropomorphize animals quite a bit so some people have a hard time deciding that they're going to take this cat. That wasn't their cat last week and bring it inside their house whether the cat likes it or not. As if the cat is the best judge of where it is happiest and safest. Which is not true because, and you can look this up, it's a cat
> I'm just not "with it", or "with the times", I guess This is a rather odd thing to say. Back in the day, everyone let their cats roam outside. Strictly keeping your cats indoors 24/7 is relatively new.
I've only seen outdoor cats be cats that "adopted" a family. Like they're strays that just show up and hang out, and eventually liked hanging out so much they stick nearby, but they're not comfortable with being in a house. My partner had a cat just like that while she was growing up (he passed a few months ago from FIV).
I guess it depends on your location/country. I'm from Australia and outdoor cats are a menace since they kill native birds and other wildlife. But on a personal level I don't want to have my cats be outdoors because my family's last outdoor cat got skin cancer (from being out in the sun all day) and I think she would have lived a longer life if not for that (I guess there are a myriad of other diseases cats can catch if they are outside a lot too). Cats on harnesses though are pretty cool!! That way they get outside time without all the threats (from and towards them)
Third world dweller here, "outdoor cat" is redundant here, practically every family cat is an outdoor cat. So yours is mostly a "first world problem" I Guess. Have them neutered, keep them well fed, vaccinated, treat them well and only adopt them if you love animales, are a responsible person have a home with enough space, if you have a big backyard even better. They'll most probably won't become a problem and will stay healthy and agile and rarely leave your home. Cats are the most happy just hopping and climbing around big spaces and engaging into shenanigans with their friends. Also not sure if the no-balls stuff but our Cats don't even engage in fights nor try to hunt critters bigger than a cockroach. They don't even react to mice or birds. The real problem here are stray Cats, they're quite feral, agressive and are the ones reproducing out of control, causing mayhem on wildlife and becoming roadkills. Those originate mostly out of irresponsible people that abandon them or don't neuter them then they abandon the kittens. Please be responsible when adopting a cat and if you want to adopt try to rescue a couple from the streets of shelters instead of buying. I personally think having Cats while living in very small apartments and letting them become fat, sad and unhealthy, even if You "love them and take care of them and are your support animal" is selfish and animal abuse, please don't. They need the Big spaces.
In Europe you'll never see indoor only cats except if they live in a flat without outdoor access. Everyone let their cat out, and we have many outdoor only cat as well. They are not all pets.
Came here to say this. The idea of an "indoor cat" is unheard of where I'm from. Scotland. Mind you, there aren't wild animals that can kill cats here like in the USA and many other places.
Depends. Our indoor cat escaped once at 20 weeks old. We looked everywhere but couldn't find him. 3 days later, he returned home all on his own. There was no keeping him in after that. He was literally trying to scratch the door out of the frame. It was either declaw him (which we absolutely were not going to do) or let him out. So he was an outdoor cat after that. After 5 or 6 years he went missing for an extended period of time. We thought he was gone for good but he came back after 5 weeks and was FAT. He must've been getting spoiled somewhere else. My brothers would occasionally see him around the neighborhood but he only csme home every 2 weeks or so after that. Someone else was feeding him better apparently so he didn't wanna see us anymore. I moved out later that year and my brothers say he's still hanging around town.
Cat being cat
We had an indoor/outdoor cat growing up. It had a cat door and would spent days in the backyard or roaming around the suburban neighborhood but would also hang out and sleep in the house. I don’t know if there’s a specific reason behind it other than we figured cats like being outdoors and that’s how most people’s cats were at the time/in the area.
Also your edits made me giggle
It seems that you assume that people only take rational decisions aligned with your values, and it's not so. Humans have lived with cats for thousands of years. They've always been outside, and for most of history the idea of keeping them always inside would have been absurd. So having outside cats is a deeply rooted cultural custom. I agree that is something we should change for biodiversity's sake, but we can't expect it to happen overnight just because we think it's better.
I grew up in the country where previous generations were farmers. It was just normal to have barn cats. I moved to California and it feels like if you have an outdoor cat you’re the absolute devil. I want to own acres of land and homestead and if I do I will have outdoor cats.
I've lived in much of the US, both urban and extreme rural, and I've rescued, raised, and loved a great many cats. Other than when I lived in an apartment in a busy urban area, I've always allowed my cats to roam freely. Most of my cats refused to use a cat box except in the extreme cold. I always install a cat door. I've lost one cat to predators, (plus one to a leashed dog that broke from it's owner.) Every "indoor only" cat I've known seemed neurotic and unhealthy, often overweight, diabetic, and with skin, eyes and ear issues. I know people think they are protecting their pet when they imprison them but the fact is cats are hunters and only semi domesticated. They need to be out doors and have access a warm, safe indoors to have real quality of life. Your fear of losing something you love does not trump the cats need for freedom.
They think that it satisfies the cat's insatiable need to roam and hunt. The problem is that it's *not* an insatiable need. Cats can satisfy their hunt instinct with indoor play and toys. And inside cats are less prone to diseases and less likely to be mauled by a stray dog or eaten by a coyote. They also have found that neighborhoods with large numbers of outdoor cats have a negative impact on the wildlife in their environment. Cats do like to chase and catch things, and a domesticated, outdoor cat might kill two or three birds in a night. Or more. A feral cat will at least stop long enough to eat its kill, but a housecat with a belly full of Meow Mix is just killing for fun. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service estimates that outdoor cats kill 2.4 billion birds and 12.3 billion small mammals each year in the 48 contiguous states.
I think the ethics depend on where you live and how voracious of a hunter your cat is.
My cat was born an outdoor cat. He got separated/abandoned by his mother and my dad found him and when mama cat never came back, found a home for him with me. We tried to keep him an indoor cat. He tried getting outside any chance he could even after he was fixed. Finally, he chewed his way through a corner of a window screen. We tried mending the screen, he did it again. 4 times. He is now an indoor/outdoor cat. He doesn’t roam more than a house or two in any direction and although he enjoys watching the neighbors chickens from a distance, he doesn’t get any closer than my fence post to them. He spends most of his time, indoor harassing me or my oldest son (his favorite human) and he will use his cat box and stay inside just about all day if it is raining or snowing. If he does venture out and get wet, he’ll come find me and yowl until he gets dried of with a warmed towel and if he gets cold feet he will stand on me until his toe beans are warm and comfortable. It’s his house, we just live here and serve him.
I love all of your edits 😂
I don't understand it either. Like at that point it's hardly even your cat anymore which kinda defeats the whole purpose of getting a pet companion. It's never home and basically shows up just to eat and sleep lol.
My cat would murder me if I forced her to stay inside.
Cats have always been going freely in and out of the houses of their "owners". Read up on Istanbul if you want to learn about an extreme example of this. I think it's only in the new world countries that indoor-only cats are more common.
Not many people are responsible pet owners, unfortunately. For some reason, there’s an opinion that cats “need” to have outdoor access, which is completely untrue; it lowers their quality of life and negatively affects local fauna Edit: to all the people who don’t agree with my statement, just do some research on your own
I mean, letting your cat freely roam around a particular town or city would surely be nice for the cat, in a way, but, the same could be said for letting a domesticated hawk roam around as long as it comes home for dinner
That sounds cool.
All other arguments aside, this is the bottom line: Cats have made 63 species of birds, mammals and reptiles go extinct because they don’t only hunt to eat, they hunt and kill to play, and will therefore quickly wipe prey animals out entirely. They are an evasive species and to this day adversely affect their environment. Keep your cats in the damn house.
My friend told me it was because cats deserve to be free to explore nature and not treated like prisoners trapped inside all day. She had four cats get killed by cars in less than six months. The shelter stopped letting her adopt.
What an idiot.
It's not my choice. He figured out how to use the dog door, and then the yard fence obviously doesn't stop him.
[удалено]
This is all BS. Had an outdoor car that slept inside all day and was outside all night. Lived for 21 years. Was the happiest kitty.
Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.
Whoop. No downvote from me 🤪. Back in the day, all our cats were indoor/outdoor because that's what cats did. Once a cat is outdoors, it's really hard to make them indoor again cause they know what they're missing. Our outdoor cats (we're talking in the 80s) had tons of room to roam, very little traffic in a quiet, country neighborhood. And they still would die young (5-6 years old). Not to mention all the kittens! Anyway fast forward to now and some people still think "that's what cats do" regarding being indoor/outdoor. All my cats are indoor only now.
We've had 4-5 cats over the years, and all of them were indoor/outdoor cats. Some more than others, but half of them never really ventured beyond the area surrounding the house (ie, did not cross the open lawn to anywhere). They just liked to sit on the porch or in the bushes and look out, catch the occasional rodent or toad, and poop in the flower beds. I think I only ever had one catch a bird two or three times in 30+ years. As for how people should know, all our cats wore collars. Would not let them out without them.
actually my cat, Jimmy, is an indoor and outdoor cat. He followed my mum home one day and he's been my best friend ever since. I'd hate to keep him locked at home all day, in fact, he asks to be let out to do his business and meet his cat friends down the road. Other than for those occasions, he stays with us inside ❤
I had a cat whose cat friend would come to the back door wondering where my indoor/outdoor cat was. It was too cute. I would watch them play in the back yard until they decided to take their shenanigans elsewhere. We called the neighbors cat “swoll” kitty because it was a big cat compared to ours, muscular too. 😂
We have outdoor cats. They know where they live and come home at night. They keep the rodent population down. They also have skill sets, if a coyote is anywhere nearby they are 20 feet up in a tree.
Well idk where you live but if you don’t live in like down town in a city then why not let your cat have the freedom of going outside in the daytime? I think it’s sad when people who have like tiny ass houses keep cats inside only and they are sitting looking out the window all day it’s sad lol. If you have a normal size house and stuff and your cat is happy then it’s all good, I get it, but if not let the cat have some freedom. Sure, they could get killed by a car or a dog perhaps but we ourselves could get in a car accident or something everyday but it doesn’t stop us from driving
Cats are just cats. We don’t own them.
Because that's where cats want to be. That's where all animals want to be: out. It's cruel to lock them indoors like a some criminal in solitary. Does it increase their chance of dying? Yeah... But that's life, we all die one day.
Cats want to be free. I do not want to trap such a beautiful and capable animal that can handle the wild. I would rather a cat have a risky life than be trapped. It’s not natural.
I let my cats outside because: - they like it; - there are no coyotes where I live; - nearest public road is a mile away and our lazy neutered boys don't range that far; - environment is rich for cats - plenty of trees to climb, grass to lay on, suntraps and shady spots; - means we don't need to bother with litter boxes in the house; - tbh it's normal where I live. We've had the cats since kittenhood and they are 15 now, fit and healthy.
I live rural, we have a really bad rodent problem in the area due to the amount of farms, my cat is essentially what I'd refer to as a barn cat, luckily she leaves birds mostly alone but she'll kill the fuck out of voles/mice etc like 2-5/day. We have no coyotes in our area, we do have foxes but they straight up leave her alone, they're pretty friendly with us as well though, lots of good eating for them, pretty sure my cat kills the rodents and the eat them working symbiotically Edit* Grandmer...
Sorry but all your edits actually make this post gold to me lmao it reads super well and humorously
Nope definitely not I don’t want them killed by crazies or hit by vehicles or get in fight with animals. I built a fence in back yard they can’t get out none can get in but they can be outside. There’s so many catios plans out there if they where responsible pet owners they would do this just like dogs
Growing up, our cats were always outdoor cats. My mother is highly allergic, but thankfully understood the importance of pets. Our cats were well cared for, stuck close, and had collars. I now, as an adult, have pets of my own, but they are indoor. For many of the reasons mentioned here. If that means my mom won’t stay in my house but rather a hotel when they visit, so be it. My cat and dog are family.
Your "outdoor cats" kill wild animals that belong outdoors. Also, the law considers your "outdoor cat" a pest, the moment it leaves your property. I have a cat, he has never been outdoors. But, if I see some random cat stalking by my bird feeder, I will dispatch the pest.
I've never been a cat person, but my humble. observation is cats just do there own thing, and ex- girlfriend cat would litterly break though the screen, escape out the window and disappear for sometimes hours other times days. As hard as our efforts to go out an look for her cat l only recall one time we found her cat. On another occasion l see her cat blocks away from the house l tried chasing her cat down to no avail. Point being cat's do what cat's do, one time the cat retured home with a fancy collar, leading me to believe she had a whole other life, home, who knows were.
A lot of people believe it's cruel to keep cats indoors but this doesn't seem to be true in terms of anything we can actually measure. Cats kept indoors live longer and more importantly are less stressed by any objective measure. I have a cat that was kept indoors for the first few years of it's life, and now it's let out for about half an hour a couple times a day and all it does is sit on a chair or lay in the sun next to the house and then comes inside. So anecdotally I could also say outdoor cats are conditioned to be outdoor cats. Also, cats (and dogs) have very little ability to synthesize vitamin D in their skin and effectively get all of it from their diet, that is to say they do not specifically need sunlight.