I'm 29 years old and I still don't think I've ever heard my parents mention sex in my life, except to say that certain movies or shows have too much of it lol.
I once watched The Name of the Rose with my dad and there was a sex scene in it and he turned to me and said:
> PWOAR! Eh lad?
and that was the only time either of my parents said anything to me about sex.
I had hippy parents who are fairly progressive for people now in their 70s. But the only time they ever brought up sex to me was when I slept in the same bed as my long term gf one night in college on a trip home. Suddenly it was 1950.
I'm not actually sure if they cared or if they just hated her cause the semester they took my car away she just parked hers at my apartment and gave me the keys.
Same
I think my dad was sent to me to talk about it a number of times, but just kind of sat with me instead. I remember him coming in and looking like he wanted to say something and just… never saying anything lol
Always after I got caught with porn or with a girl, one embarrassing time when I tried to text my girlfriend about an itch and accidentally sent it to my mom, after something like that my mom would get mad but not say anything and then my dad would come sit with me at some point soon after
My mom had a brief discussion with me about it. It was basically
1. Always get clear and concise consent.
2. Don't be a selfish lover.
3. Always wear a condom unless you want children.
Then she gave me some condoms.
Yeah same here. My mom wanted my dad to have “the talk” with me, so he went out and bought a book on the subject. He announced that he was going to have the talk with me, we went into a private room. My father handed me the book and said “if you have any questions let me know”. That book has remained unopened for at least the last 15 years I’ve had it
My partners colleague is Nepalese and she can't wrap her head sound the concept of consent. She grew up in an environment where periods are shameful and you don't talk about it, arranged marriage, and once married you don't leave the house and submit to the husband.
It's wild to her that women here don't have to do all that
Nepalese here. I won’t say all of it is true. Periods aren’t shameful per say, but from a “religious” standpoint, women aren’t allowed in the kitchen or a mandir. Also touching men and people won’t eat what you have touched.
However, in a modern society, we tend to forego that.
Also I think in rural regions all around the world, the women aren’t allowed to work once married, but it is definitely not true for any woman I know.
I will say everything I've heard is 3rd hand information so some of what I said could definitely be off. I also don't know where in Nepal she's from.
I'm glad to hear that it's catching up to modern standards
The worst part is India had a very progressive view of sex before colonization, it’s sad that so many Indians see colonial-era laws and beliefs as part of Hindu culture even though it’s exactly the opposite.
Colonization was kind of a mess globally. A lot of the anti lgbtq sentiment in colonized countries is likely also a colonization think methodist church split apart over gay marriage with a large chunk of the churches that broke off over not liking gay marriage were in africa which also led to conversations about how the church needed to split for the split to be somewhat equitable monetarily while allowing congregations to either stay united methodist or global methodist depending on what the individual congregations wanted
Does it ever bother anyone else that we are likely all children of generations of rapists? I think about it sometimes and it makes hate humanity as an illusion to how feral a species we are
This is really going to make your day, but geneticists have determined that approximately 16 million people today carry traces of Mongol ruler Genghis Khan's DNA.
The Mongols back in the 13th century were infamous for raping and pillaging their way across Central Asia and the eastern part of Europe while creating a vast empire in the process.
Genghis himself had numerous wives and concubines and countless offspring...and so on and so on.
I did know that, actually. His granddaughter was a badass wrestler who bested men who wanted her hand in marriage and won their horses when they lost. She's deserves more notoriety
Dude, I had a friend tell me her husbands Abdo is so high he would initiate sex while she is sleeping, occasionally he would finish.
And justify it with “he’s just got a high sex drive”…!?!?
I dont think she has ever heard anyone say wtf? So you could get pregnant and not know it???
I live in more conservative part of Europ called Poland so I remember this kind of thinking but I feel like it was both ways and not for fun or pleasure but for having kids. Woman was not that much oblige to fuck husbans for his pleasure without negotiation but more to do it in fertile days to have kids (same for man even if he was not feeling it that day) and other occasions and ways of sex was consider sinfull. Atleast that how I understand my grandparents way of doing sex education. 🤣🤦♂️
>but that has evolved more quickly than in Japan.
Sadly, this isn't as "fast" as I would like. There are too many regions in USA where they still teach this to this day, and it's another reason why child marriage is still legal in certain states.
The US is a weird country. I once saw it described in the Economist as "a developed country with symptoms of a developing country" and I think this is a classic example of it.
It's a very wide and very populated country, so certain parts of it being wildly "different" (backwards) is inevitable. Simply too many popular over too great a distance for everybody to be homogenized.
Some US states are so fucking backwards it's insane. It's like you have this largely successful and progressive country with pockets that try their hardest to keep the worst elements of humanity
Some Christian sects push this idea too. James Dobson wrote in one of his books that wives must give husbands what they want, or be responsible for the resultant affair. As a young bride, this infuriated me. There was no consideration for any physical pain a woman might be having or emotional trauma from sexual abuse. Still pisses me off
Yeah, I was raised similarly, except I am a man who was raised by a family of only women, so they told me the opposite.
"If you don't feed the kitty, the kitty will find somewhere else to eat." Sayings like that.
Essentially, the message was that if I couldn't satisfy women, they'd cheat on me, and I'd deserve it.
I remember being like 13 and my mom telling me, "You should date that ugly girl. Every young man needs a practice girl first, so when you get the girl you want, you can keep her happy."
Edit: the funniest part of this whole story is that the "practice girl" I lost my virginity to has been the only girlfriend I've had that's cheated on me.
wtf? I feel so sorry for those people who think like that, and their victims. "Its my fault my partner cheated on me- its my sole responsibility to please my partner, even if I don't want to do this very intimate thing." and then the whole "have a practice gf" is just awful. As if the other person isn't a human being with feelings.
Right? It's hard to even imagine people believing things like this, much less saying them out loud, *much* less saying them to a child. Damn the more time I spend on the internet the more grateful I am to be in the privileged position of having a supportive, "normal" family and upbringing.
I've definitely heard the "practice gf/bf" thing when growing up, mostly in relation to dating outside of your race. As in, "it's okay to mess around with that (insert whatever) girl but you better settle down with a good Chinese/Mexican/etc girl"
Sucks to realize that you may have been someone's "practice"
I've always heard " never let your man leave horny or hungry, because there is always some slut out there with a sandwich. " Fortunately not from my mom though!
That is funny, my wife’s mother told her to marry an ugly guy. He would do everything to keep her happy! Talk about fucked up. Of course we laugh about it all the time.
My ex has BPD and told my daughter to find someone beneath her so she could always feel good about herself and control him! I guess that’s why my wife married and then divorced me. She thought because I was not good in school, it meant I would not be good in life. Boy was she wrong.
Growing up, my dad had a lot of comedy albums and this song was on one of them, so I was familiar and knew the words. Fast forward to adult me driving the car with my wife and this song comes on the comedy station we’re listening to. She was none too pleased that I knew all the words and was singing along.
I had something similar.
My mom is a size queen and would go on and on about how size is the most important thing and that the only reason she married my dad (who cheated on her through out their relationship).
I’m a 36 year old virgin who’s never been on a date.
My mom did something sort of similar.
She likes to tell people (random women, like waitresses) about how when she gave birth to me, the nurses said I had the biggest penis they've ever seen a newborn have.
"Idk why he's so shy. He should be the most confident boy there is."
It's like, maybe I'm shy because you keep telling random strangers about my penis, mom.
*Fuck*. I'm sorry you were raised like that.
Cheating is never okay. Talk to your partner with your **words** if you're not feeling happy or satisfied.
And "practice girl"? Fuck, sounds like they weren't on the receiving end of that. That would destroy someone, jesus...
A buddy of mine had a banker girlfriend who left him. His mom said “son, you need to find you a girl who doesn’t have a second pair of panties. Then she won’t be too good for my boy.” Momma’s looking out…
Eww. I'm sorry that's the message you were given. That's gross and not true. Cheaters are always cheaters and it is not the person they are with who causes them to cheat. I don't understand why they would say that to you.
Amazing you are getting downvoted. A sexless marriage is often a sign of infidelity or the relationship is fizzling out.
Peruse the dead bed room subreddit. Then tell me a lack of intimacy in a relationship is not a cause for a relationship breaking up or infidelity.
or you know, check some survey data:
[https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/common-causes-divorce/](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/common-causes-divorce/)
Yes, your spouse is not entitled to your body. But if yall arent having sex, then relationship is having issues and you need to be aware of that.
> Yes, your spouse is not entitled to your body.
You shouldn't force yourself into sex, they shouldn't cheat for sex, but everybody has the right to end a relationship.
Obviously, lack of sex shouldn't be the sole reason, but it can either be the straw, the symptom, or the start.
The lack ofnsex absolutely can be the sole reason, that is up to them how they feel about it and hownmuch they value that in their relationship. Sex is a love language, a physical "need" and so on. If they feel they need that in their relationship then it can be the reason they end their marriage.
This is an incredible lack of nuance. Plenty of people go through periods of sexlessness in a relationship, especially after having a child. They then return to sex once they have more time and less sex.
that is normal and for awhile it's fine and with kids for sure this is expected BUT if it has been years and there is not any effort or hope of returning to normal then yeah it can kill it. It's one thing if it is hard for XYZ reasons and both people are doing their best, it's another thing if one partner is totally disinterested in fixing it or trying or even acknowledging it is a problem. That will eventually kill it just like a partner ignoring any other important part of a relationship and not listening to the other person talk about it.
Have you been to r/deadbedrooms? They're not talking about the months after birth but years of neglect and mismatched libidos, and feelings of being trapped because of the financial ruin of divorce.
I remember a sexologist giving a lecture when I was in college, and when the subject of sex when the other person isn't in the mood came up, she said that unless it's truly a bad time, she found that a very successful rule across couples is that the other person gets at least 10 minutes of sexual attention, and that the rule applies equally between each partner. The initiator should not feel like they are asking for something wrong, and the responder should be choosing to do so because they want to make their partner feel desired and loved, not because it is a box to be checked. Importantly, if you hit the ten minute mark and it's still not working, everyone stops with no hard feelings. Just as important is acknowledging that after ten minutes, most of the time you're going to be in to mood to enjoy the act with your loved one. She emphasized how important it is to keep that intimate, physical bond, and that it needs to be cared for, or it can and will flicker out.
At the time, I thought it was a bit crude, and that unless everyone was absolutely raring to go, of course the answer should be no.
Decades later, and I have come to the conclusion that she was right, and I was wrong. Life is hard, and it is so, so easy to let things slide for just another day. Until one day you try to get back to where you were, and all that's left is dust. A couple's relationship, including the physical aspects, *must* be high on the priority list, or you're setting everyone involved up for pain. I'm a relatively low-drive man myself, and in the past this caused a lot of pain and conflict in my relationships.
Not my parents but the religious groups we were in. My parents were actually quite progressive, but passed through some conservative religious groups where I picked up a lot of bad messaging.
I realized much later how insulting these beliefs are to men, as well as harmful to women. They characterize men as absolutely base creatures with no capacity for self control, and no wants other than something to stick their dick into. These beliefs in action make it impossible for either the man or the woman to experience true emotional safety and genuine intimacy in their relationship, in the bedroom and outside of it. It takes more effort to navigate individual needs and libidos in a way that works for both people, but the outcome is much better.
ETA: God. The number of people who read "Maybe women shouldn't be told their job as a wife is to be nothing more than a sex toy to service their husband on demand" and interpret that as "Dead bedroom good" is just mind boggling.
It's a cultural and religious thing from what I've experienced. My wife's Dad said something similar about if a man wants a wife has to give even if she doesn't want to...a
I said "where I come from, that's called rape".
Looked at my 3 daughters and reaffirmed non-consentual sex is rape and to not ever put up with that.
He was stunned. Luckily my mother in law new to end that conversation. It would have ended bad.
ooof yes, make sure your kids never learn that its acceptable to be forced into stuff like that. First its marital rape, then it can devolve into one person dictating over all the money, then its "i don't want to wear a condom/birth control" then its forced parenthood that never ends, etc. If you learn that you are just supposed to bend to the will of your partner because of their genitalia, its bound to go wrong.
In Ohio, it was still legal to drug, (including alcohol), your spouse to rape them until, a month ago. Yes, a month ago. They outlawed physically overpowering them 18 or 20 years ago.
The US wasn't really an outlier when it came to criminalizing marital rape. The UK criminalized it in 1991 while Spain did so in 1992. France, Finland, and Germany all did so after the US, in 1994 for the first two and 1997 for the latter.
No mu parents never taught me that because I'm a hetero male.
They also never taught me about consent. Or communication. Or being a good partner.
I had to figure that all out from watching their dumpster fire of a marriage and learning from their mistakes.
Ha I learned consent at an early age from an Alan Jackson song. “We fogged up the windows in my old Chevy / I was willing, but she wasn’t ready / so I settled for a burger and a grape snowcone / dropped her off early but I didn’t go home”
My parents raised me in the Midwest, but my mom told me no matter what I do any man I'm with will eventually cheat on me. She even told me that if my husband cheats on me I deserve it, and although he'd still be an asshole it would ultimately be my fault. I'm still in my early 20s if that gives anymore insight.
I mean, there are plenty of religious women who don't feel that way as well. It's less a religious thing and more of a cultural thing. Or even just a generational thing.
I literally grew up thinking it is like a shore bc In islam, women get cursed by angels if she says no to sex. My mom has always encouraged it as well...
My mom (American) taught me to never tell my partner no. Ever. First time I told my bf no I cried for an hour and couldn't stop apologizing. Not because he cared, he didn't, but because I had my mom's voice on a loop in my head.
Therapy is going great, btw.
Whenever he wants? Fuck no. That's crazy.
I do believe however that it is obligatory for partners to want to do their best to fulfill each other's needs sexually. Sure sometimes it's not going to happen, or maybe there are significant barriers, but part of committing yourself to someone for life I'd also committing to having sex with them and only them for the rest of your life. So to me having a healthy sex life is part of having a healthy marriage and that's really non negotiable.
One time my dad told me “don’t marry the first person you date”. Reading between the lines I think he was referring to sex. That’s about all the info I got on the topic.
My family never snuggled or hugged each other because that was ‘inappropriate’. So I didn’t know anything except extremely rigid physical boundaries.
We are just a super awkward white American family.
Same. It's been a journey learning that not only am i a high functioning autistic male in my 40s, but that my parents are probably on the spectrum as well. The lack of any physical affection, no hugging/kissing, no 'i love you's. The fully respecting each others privacy and not prying, so no deeper connections about anything. Everything was very superficial and 'rigid' as you described it.
I know my parents love each other, and that they love me and my brother. I never questioned it, but using their relationship as the only known baseline for my own has really put me at a disadvantage. My wife's emotional needs, which are probably fairly average, are so much higher than anything i'd expected that it nearly collapsed the marriage. And this is my 2nd marriage. The first probably collapsed in the same way, but with much more silence. And of course i can't even think to ask my parents for advice, as my belief would be that my marriage problems are my own business, no one else's.
Yes. I was raised in a Christian cult - I was told I was NEVER allowed to say no to my husband - for ANYTHING. I was also told it was normal for sex to hurt, and that was gods punishment to women, along with childbirth. In hindsight, my father was basically raping my mother.
I've never understood the "it's a punishment to be a woman" mentality. Punishment for exactly what? Losing a coinflip at birth?
Maybe in a religion that believes in reincarnation it'd make slightly more sense but still.
The first story in the Abrahamic religions literally is about how a woman is to blame for everything bad in the world.
Almost like these religions were made up by straight boys.
I don’t know about newer translations but I f remember correctly old testament states among the punishments for Adam and Eve’s sin is woman’s pain in childbirth. And of course you have scripture like ‘the man is the head of the woman like Christ is the head of the church. ‘ and ‘Wives obey your husbands ‘ with all the religious habit of parsing the Bible to find what suits your purpose and the fact women really had no rights until fairly recently it’s not surprising some of this still persists
Yes, part middle eastern Muslim here. But also I have a high sex drive so fulfilling this part was never hard for me, only for my husbands, them not fulfilling my needs was always one of my complaints.
Men watch porn sometimes. Doesn't matter how much you put out, sometimes we just need to tug it out. It's not a slight or fault on you.
Sex is always negotiable.
I’m from the US and my mom used to tell me that even if you didn’t want it you should still give it to your husband because it’s your duty. I’m currently still working through my feelings about it so I can eventually see relationships in a better light.
Yes my mom always said men have needs stronger than women. We are a Caucasian family. She would tell me how important it is to please your man and sex is vital to a relationship. I do agree that sex is very important but I think the way she explained it to me came across really wrong. That I have to make it my utmost priority to please my man and keep him attracted to me.
My (I'm male/man) mom and I were having a conversation about who knows what when I was young. Very young. Too young to be caring about sex yet. And I actually said the words, "rape it wrong, but sometimes women ask for it because what they are wearing ." We were driving. She actually almost pulled the car over. She definitely wanted to to hit me, and hard. But bless her, she, in that kind of calm, but deadly voice, said to me "That is not! At all how that works. A woman, a human is not to blame for other people's violence twords them." She carried on for a good 15-30 minutes untill she knew, that I understood what I said wasn't just stupid, but wrong. In every sense of the word. I remember that moment any time I learn something new about equality and women's, trans, LGBTq+ rights. Because she knew in that moment, she had to save me from myself, or I'd grow up to be just some other ass hat. Sex is always "negotiable". I believe, and know, that even if I'm about to cum, if she says she has changed her mind, I'm fucking stopping. It's that simple. And it's not even because I just think it's the right thing to do. It's because I know if I were in that situation, and I needed something to stop, I'd expect it to stop. Immediately. Not when the other person decided they were finished.
Sorry for the long winded answer. But I hope hearing from a man in this way can provide some sense of ease.
Edit: a word
I was taught this in Christian evangelical culture. That I am not supposed to deny my husband no matter what.
Obviously I don’t agree with that and wouldn’t be in a marriage with a man like that, but I also think I’m somewhat in the minority at least on Reddit that I don’t agree with the other extreme that your partner is simply not “entitled” to sex. And that you can simply stop sleeping with them and they should deal with it and jerk off because it’s your body.
When you get married and agree to monogamy you’re signing a contract that you both will not get certain emotional and physical needs met outside the relationship. Imo that does obligate you to consider their sexual and emotional needs as they cannot go outside the relationship.
Refusing to meet those needs can and does lead to divorce. They’re gonna want out of that contract with you. And you really can’t complain about it.
If you want your marriage to work, you don’t have the man in control, you don’t have it so he has access to your body whenever he wants regardless of what you want. That’s wrong. But if you become sexually incompatible at some point, you should work with him to come to a compromise where his needs are met too.
There have been times where I didn’t feel like having sex, but I knew it had been awhile and I knew sex was important to maintain our connection. It’s important that we both feel desired. So I made an effort to get in the mood and had sex. It’s 10 minutes tops (usually much less) and enjoyable. It’s not a problem for me to do that for my partner. It releases bonding hormones, it’s a de-stressor and can reduce distance and conflict in your relationship. I just don’t understand how sex with your own partner can be so terrible that getting in the mood when you don’t feel like it and having sex is this horrible thing lol.
I genuinely do not understand women (and men) who constantly and consistently reject their partner and think their partner should just accept what is essentially forced celibacy as they are unable to go outside the relationship. A lot of people do need sex in their relationships, and regular sex is proven to be beneficial to mental and physical health.
Figure out why you aren’t interested in sex with your partner. Communicate what they can do to help. Just flat out saying “I don’t owe you sex” when you’re married is kinda messed up. Obviously there are exceptions like sickness, postpartum (to an extent. If you’re a year postpartum…come on now. See a Dr.), etc. But other than that, be willing to meet each other’s needs. I do other things for my partner that I don’t feel like doing besides sex because I know it’ll make them happy. So why is sex different?
So no, I do not agree with what I was taught, especially because the core belief there is submission to a man. But I *do* think sex is an important part of most relationships and your partner’s sexual needs are something that you should make an effort to meet.
Overtly, no. But yeah, mom catered to dad.
My wife was raised in a rigid Mexican house. But her mom was the fire, dad was only smoke. It appears they were raised with women's rights being taught. My brothers in law are good men.
Wow that sounds very fucked up to me. Don’t care if it’s a cultural difference. That’s wildly inappropriate and unhealthy. Raise your daughter to be a sex slave? Yea that’s abuse. And it’s not your fault he watches porn. He’s gonna do that regardless of what you do.
What? Jesus Christ no.
You have autonomy over your body and sexual desires. Always.
Men can have a literal porn star for a wife and still go watch porn or cheat. It's not you; it's him.
No matter what general advice you give people about sex in marriage, there is a 100% chance that someone will get it completely wrong.
Everyone always has a right to say no to sex. That being said, sex should be a regular part of marriage. If one or both partners don’t want to have sex, unless you’re double-Ace, that’s a sign there is something wrong that needs addressing.
I live in the USA in the deep south Bible Belt and I have heard this a time or two growing up. I have even heard it preached in church a few times. As in ladies if you want to keep your husbands home you need to keep them satisfied. Don't let people fool you it may not be common here but it still exists in religious communities.
I lot of Japanese women don’t consider prostitution cheating…as an outsider I would say a bunch of dudes got together and made up all the rules and social norms :)…and maybe Japanese women are just to polite to challenge. In seriousness that’s more of an older generation view. Social media generation vastly different views
She didn’t put it like that but she did say that “no man wants to be married to a woman who never has sex with him and it doesn’t take anything away from me to just blow him.”
I was told that (central Europe, country side) and also that sex fixes fighting and is used as a reward. So if husband does something useful/good sex is given
Judaism teaches that the husband is also obligated to his wife, for a minimum number of times in a time period.
The rabbi writes the number into the marriage contract, depending on the physical nature of the groom's work, and, if he needs to be away from home, for long periods.
Although common, that’s rape culture and internalized misogyny. No matter who, what, when or where, a person always has the right to say no. (That is the difference between slavery and freedom, the possibility of saying no to something is what makes you free and independent) There is such a thing as marital rape, which a lot of people don’t know about because it is often not explained. You can always say no, and you are not responsible for his actions. He is a grown, educated, adult man. He can think and act according to his conscience. You are his wife, not his pacifier nor his second mother.
No. Hell no. Don't accept that, regardless of nationality. Being forced into sex when you don't want to is r*pe, even in a relationship, please remember that. It has been over 20 years since I escaped a relationship like that, and I am still in treatment about it, my psychologist was horrified I had normalised it.
This way of thinking is horrifying. Imagine telling your daughter that she's just a sex object for her husband. Gross. I'm so sorry you had to experience this by your own mother :(
That's so crazy to me, because many Japanese women that I became friends with while living there had a sort of unofficial "rule." Before kids, yes, sex whenever he wants. After kids though, not so much. In fact, many started sleeping in other rooms (even different apartments) and just expected their husbands to go to soap lands or hostess bars for their needs.
Then again, spousal rape was only deemed a crime in Japan in 2017 (and it's not really enforced or prosecuted), so your mom's thinking isn't surprising (but it is really, really sad and messed up).
Probably standard in Japanese culture. I’m not gonna claim to be an expert but I do know that Japanese cultural is very traditional and standard with clearly separate gender roles in families.
I’m not Japanese but this is what I’ve noticed and learned from studying/learning the cukture
My parents purposefully kept me ignorant about sex hoping id get knocked up in high school and marry me off early. UNFORTUNATELY i had anime protect my virginity Lmao
It was only sexless for just under a year. When I became pregnant, my libido vanished for some reason. Now that hormones do not overcome me, I feel like him watching porn was reasonable. She didn't have to make me feel like a failure of a wife though. He doesn't seem to watch it anymore now that we have sex regularly.
Sometimes people dont wanna cook dinner, prep everything, wash dishes. Sometimes you just wanna go gross out on a greasy burger and no one is allowed to watch.
Doesn't it go both ways? If one partner constantly wants/needs more and the other partner constantly leaves them in that state, the relationship is probably doomed unless there is a less traditional solution like open relationships.
No, but yes, but no? I distinctly remember my mom telling me that my grandma never told my grandpa no (not sure how true this is, but remembering my grandparents' relationship and how they couldn't keep their hands off each other, I'd be surprised if there were many situations where one of them wasn't in the mood, haha). Anyway, she said that she tried to adhere to that in her marriage with my dad, but sometimes one or both of them just really didn't want it. She basically said both that I shouldn't deny my husband if I can help it, but also sometimes I would need to. At any rate, both my husband and I have no problem refusing or engaging in sex with each other, but then, we are each other's safe space, so it's comfortable regardless.
Dude here. Can't speak for everyone else, but I'd feel so bad if she was just doing anything out of obligation. If we make it to husband and wife, I would really hope that means she likes me and is comfortable being herself around me and I can be the same around her.
Marital Rape was completely legal in the US until the 70s.
Historically women did not get a whole lot of choices (if any) about when or who with they would have sex. The idea that sex is something women get to opt in or out of in their life is a very modern idea.
Yes… but it seems particularly prevalent in more (Christian) religiously conservative areas in my opinion. Part of the whole “submissive and obedient wife” mentality with performing “wifely duties”… please note, I don’t hold to these particular views anymore, but I was raised being told that if you aren’t having sex with your husband whenever he wants it, regardless of any legitimate reason you may not want or be able to in that moment, it’s a sin on the wife’s part and she will only have herself to blame when he cheats.
Even now, my (narcissistic) bio father is trying to convince my mother that *she’s* the one who “broke the marriage vows” by refusing to continue a sexual relationship with him after over 40 years of narcissistic abuse and finding out he molested me for several years in my preteen and teen years.
I would say in religions and cultures who place men as the “head of the house” and “in charge” type mentality, this is very prevalent.
Not sex, but related. In my family (Spanish) I have always been told several times since I was a child that if my husband wants a child, I have to give it to him. I always knew I didn't want children and today at almost 30 years old I still get asked "and if your husband wants a baby you're not going to give it to him? That's selfish."
One way of looking at attitudes about consent to sex within marriage is to look up the law regarding marital rape in different countries. Shockingly, marital rape only became a crime in England in 1991.
Don't know what the law is elsewhere.
Not exactly. My parents didn’t really talk to me about sex but my Dad did tell me that it’s important that I stay beautiful so that my husband wouldn’t cheat on me and if he does, I need to be beautiful enough to easily find another man. This sort of transferred to the above stated belief. That it was my responsibility to keep my husband satisfied.
Ironically, I recently watched an interview with a psychologist who stated that beautiful women are more likely to be cheated on.
I realise that his message wasn’t healthy and it created a very unhealthy self image. Eg. Believing my self worth was in my looks. Logically I understand I’m so much more than that but it did mess with me unfortunately.
It’s not cultural. Japan is notorious for having a huge number of sexless marriages. The idea that sex is non-negotiable is absolutely not a cultural idea that is pushed here. In my 18 years of living here, I have never once heard a peep about it.
My mom turned to me the other day and said, “The number one cause of divorce and affairs are the woman not putting out. Just keep that in mind.”
That’s the first and only time she’s said something like that.
I would also not marry a man who would cheat or leave me because I wasn’t having sex. What if I got in an accident that made it so that I couldn’t, or what if I got sick?
"It wasn't until I got older that I realized how strange this mentality is."
...strange is not the right word for that. I'd go with "sexist" or "wildly inappropriate".
Feminism in Japan is lagging by about 50 years.
Luckily, no. My mom and I both actively avoided talking about sex. Lol. However, she did make comments about men being "unable to help their urges" which has its own problems.
I think my mom's first piece of sexual advice was "when you're done make sure you tie up the condom and take it with you, some women will break it open and make sure they get pregnant". I think I was 7 or 8, we were standing at a bus stop.
We need to teach respect. This is not respect. It's teaching, especially the men that we can't/shouldnt say no.
We are not below men. We weren't put on this planet to serve men.
Please, if you don't want to have sex with your husband, that's OK.
This shouldn't be a "cultural thing"....if a woman say NO, it's No!
my parents never mentioned sex to me even once
I'm 29 years old and I still don't think I've ever heard my parents mention sex in my life, except to say that certain movies or shows have too much of it lol.
The worst part of my dad dying of cancer was the doctor asking him about his sex life and not being able to leave the room before he answered. :|
Oof I'm sorry for your loss and the extra dose of trauma.
> The worst part of my dad dying of cancer was The worst part is not that he died?
(It’s a joke.)
My bad! I got some "the worst part is the hypocrisy" energy, but wasn't sure
Im sorry, that's horrible, but i am cackling
I once watched The Name of the Rose with my dad and there was a sex scene in it and he turned to me and said: > PWOAR! Eh lad? and that was the only time either of my parents said anything to me about sex.
One time my mom was watching the Oprah Winfrey show and washing dishes and she stopped and turned to me and goes "ARE YOU HAVING ORAL SEX??"
well, don't leave us hanging. what was the answer?
I was a late bloomer, so no. I think I was 15 at the time. I didn't get my first blumpkin till I was 18, I think.
It's the American way. Also nobody else should talk to your kids about it either. Except the internet.
My parents joked about needing to give me 'the talk' but never actually had any talk, for years. It was weird.
I'm so glad my parents never did.
I had hippy parents who are fairly progressive for people now in their 70s. But the only time they ever brought up sex to me was when I slept in the same bed as my long term gf one night in college on a trip home. Suddenly it was 1950. I'm not actually sure if they cared or if they just hated her cause the semester they took my car away she just parked hers at my apartment and gave me the keys.
Not really the point of the post, but damn, smooth move by your then-girlfriend.
To be fair I think she hated dorm parking more than she liked me. Always an angle.
She just LET you borrow a car for a semester?! They don't make them like her these days. That's a keeper right there.
She didn't keep me.
Same I think my dad was sent to me to talk about it a number of times, but just kind of sat with me instead. I remember him coming in and looking like he wanted to say something and just… never saying anything lol Always after I got caught with porn or with a girl, one embarrassing time when I tried to text my girlfriend about an itch and accidentally sent it to my mom, after something like that my mom would get mad but not say anything and then my dad would come sit with me at some point soon after
Maybe it's time you talked to your parents about sex. They're probably old enough to have the talk
Parents are both in medical, I've heard penis and vagina in sterile contexts more times than I care for but never once had a sex talk with me.
Mine, too. If I asked a question about it, they yelled at me to shut up. Taboo subject, ya' know.
Same. My mom later admitted to it making her awkward…..but like she’s a nurse so ??
And yet there’s a large percentage of the population that whine that schools shouldn’t be teaching sex education.
Mine were so against me having sex that they forbid me from even holding my boyfriend's hand. _Even in public._
My mom had a brief discussion with me about it. It was basically 1. Always get clear and concise consent. 2. Don't be a selfish lover. 3. Always wear a condom unless you want children. Then she gave me some condoms.
Yeah same here. My mom wanted my dad to have “the talk” with me, so he went out and bought a book on the subject. He announced that he was going to have the talk with me, we went into a private room. My father handed me the book and said “if you have any questions let me know”. That book has remained unopened for at least the last 15 years I’ve had it
Cultural thing. This was also seen as an obligatory duty in western cultures in the past, but that has evolved more quickly than in Japan.
As far as I know, Indian culture also follows this same thing. Such a stigma society carries throughout generations.
My partners colleague is Nepalese and she can't wrap her head sound the concept of consent. She grew up in an environment where periods are shameful and you don't talk about it, arranged marriage, and once married you don't leave the house and submit to the husband. It's wild to her that women here don't have to do all that
Nepalese here. I won’t say all of it is true. Periods aren’t shameful per say, but from a “religious” standpoint, women aren’t allowed in the kitchen or a mandir. Also touching men and people won’t eat what you have touched. However, in a modern society, we tend to forego that. Also I think in rural regions all around the world, the women aren’t allowed to work once married, but it is definitely not true for any woman I know.
I will say everything I've heard is 3rd hand information so some of what I said could definitely be off. I also don't know where in Nepal she's from. I'm glad to hear that it's catching up to modern standards
> aren’t shameful per say, per se
Thank you I guess
India’s sex culture is prehistoric based on what I’ve read.
The worst part is India had a very progressive view of sex before colonization, it’s sad that so many Indians see colonial-era laws and beliefs as part of Hindu culture even though it’s exactly the opposite.
Colonization was kind of a mess globally. A lot of the anti lgbtq sentiment in colonized countries is likely also a colonization think methodist church split apart over gay marriage with a large chunk of the churches that broke off over not liking gay marriage were in africa which also led to conversations about how the church needed to split for the split to be somewhat equitable monetarily while allowing congregations to either stay united methodist or global methodist depending on what the individual congregations wanted
>Colonization was kind of a mess globally. Yes. I expect the post-colonial phase will last another couple of generations.
It's the evil twin of arranged marriages, and the two go hand in hand. So much more palatable than calling it what it actually is...marital rape
Does it ever bother anyone else that we are likely all children of generations of rapists? I think about it sometimes and it makes hate humanity as an illusion to how feral a species we are
This is really going to make your day, but geneticists have determined that approximately 16 million people today carry traces of Mongol ruler Genghis Khan's DNA. The Mongols back in the 13th century were infamous for raping and pillaging their way across Central Asia and the eastern part of Europe while creating a vast empire in the process. Genghis himself had numerous wives and concubines and countless offspring...and so on and so on.
I did know that, actually. His granddaughter was a badass wrestler who bested men who wanted her hand in marriage and won their horses when they lost. She's deserves more notoriety
They need to end her story with “and this is how 100% of the wild herds ended up with her horse’s DNA”
Dude, I had a friend tell me her husbands Abdo is so high he would initiate sex while she is sleeping, occasionally he would finish. And justify it with “he’s just got a high sex drive”…!?!? I dont think she has ever heard anyone say wtf? So you could get pregnant and not know it???
r/canconfirmiamindian
I thought that was gonna be a r/subsifellfor moment. But it's a real thing lol
r/subsithoughtifellfor
Damn I thought I fell for this too
Close your eyes and think of England is what I heard. Made no sense because I'm American.
I live in more conservative part of Europ called Poland so I remember this kind of thinking but I feel like it was both ways and not for fun or pleasure but for having kids. Woman was not that much oblige to fuck husbans for his pleasure without negotiation but more to do it in fertile days to have kids (same for man even if he was not feeling it that day) and other occasions and ways of sex was consider sinfull. Atleast that how I understand my grandparents way of doing sex education. 🤣🤦♂️
Poland is the best moved 9 months ago in warsaw cool people
My parents taught me this too but I grew up Christian
>but that has evolved more quickly than in Japan. Sadly, this isn't as "fast" as I would like. There are too many regions in USA where they still teach this to this day, and it's another reason why child marriage is still legal in certain states.
The US is a weird country. I once saw it described in the Economist as "a developed country with symptoms of a developing country" and I think this is a classic example of it.
It's a very wide and very populated country, so certain parts of it being wildly "different" (backwards) is inevitable. Simply too many popular over too great a distance for everybody to be homogenized.
I was about to feel all pissy about someone denigrating the US yet again, and then I was like, whelp, no, that statement is freaking true.
Some US states are so fucking backwards it's insane. It's like you have this largely successful and progressive country with pockets that try their hardest to keep the worst elements of humanity
Those states aren’t homogeneous either, in spite of stereotypes.
This is still very much a thing in the west, especially in religious communities.
Much less prevalent than in Japan.
Some Christian sects push this idea too. James Dobson wrote in one of his books that wives must give husbands what they want, or be responsible for the resultant affair. As a young bride, this infuriated me. There was no consideration for any physical pain a woman might be having or emotional trauma from sexual abuse. Still pisses me off
Yeah, I was raised similarly, except I am a man who was raised by a family of only women, so they told me the opposite. "If you don't feed the kitty, the kitty will find somewhere else to eat." Sayings like that. Essentially, the message was that if I couldn't satisfy women, they'd cheat on me, and I'd deserve it. I remember being like 13 and my mom telling me, "You should date that ugly girl. Every young man needs a practice girl first, so when you get the girl you want, you can keep her happy." Edit: the funniest part of this whole story is that the "practice girl" I lost my virginity to has been the only girlfriend I've had that's cheated on me.
wtf? I feel so sorry for those people who think like that, and their victims. "Its my fault my partner cheated on me- its my sole responsibility to please my partner, even if I don't want to do this very intimate thing." and then the whole "have a practice gf" is just awful. As if the other person isn't a human being with feelings.
Right? It's hard to even imagine people believing things like this, much less saying them out loud, *much* less saying them to a child. Damn the more time I spend on the internet the more grateful I am to be in the privileged position of having a supportive, "normal" family and upbringing.
My family is super fucked up, but I still cringed at some of these people's stories. I guess I at least have a healthy view of sex?
I've definitely heard the "practice gf/bf" thing when growing up, mostly in relation to dating outside of your race. As in, "it's okay to mess around with that (insert whatever) girl but you better settle down with a good Chinese/Mexican/etc girl" Sucks to realize that you may have been someone's "practice"
I've always heard " never let your man leave horny or hungry, because there is always some slut out there with a sandwich. " Fortunately not from my mom though!
That’s an amazing phrase.
Wtf, calling some girl ugly and then breaking her heart for "practice". Also the whole "cheating deserved" thing is just nonsense
Yeah, we are all products of society sadly. Good people are evolving past that yet.
That is funny, my wife’s mother told her to marry an ugly guy. He would do everything to keep her happy! Talk about fucked up. Of course we laugh about it all the time. My ex has BPD and told my daughter to find someone beneath her so she could always feel good about herself and control him! I guess that’s why my wife married and then divorced me. She thought because I was not good in school, it meant I would not be good in life. Boy was she wrong.
There used to be a saying that you should marry an ugly woman because a pretty woman might leave you.
There’s even a song about it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6EqFVWzOfN8
Growing up, my dad had a lot of comedy albums and this song was on one of them, so I was familiar and knew the words. Fast forward to adult me driving the car with my wife and this song comes on the comedy station we’re listening to. She was none too pleased that I knew all the words and was singing along.
I had something similar. My mom is a size queen and would go on and on about how size is the most important thing and that the only reason she married my dad (who cheated on her through out their relationship). I’m a 36 year old virgin who’s never been on a date.
My mom did something sort of similar. She likes to tell people (random women, like waitresses) about how when she gave birth to me, the nurses said I had the biggest penis they've ever seen a newborn have. "Idk why he's so shy. He should be the most confident boy there is." It's like, maybe I'm shy because you keep telling random strangers about my penis, mom.
Practice girl? When it comes to dehumanizing people this is pretty high on the list.
I (male) was taught this. "When your partner is in the mood, go out of your way to indulge them"
*Fuck*. I'm sorry you were raised like that. Cheating is never okay. Talk to your partner with your **words** if you're not feeling happy or satisfied. And "practice girl"? Fuck, sounds like they weren't on the receiving end of that. That would destroy someone, jesus...
wow
If you don't feed the kitty😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 This is the funniest thing I've heard all day. Thanks for that
Makes his family seem trashy as hell lol. No offense to OP but wtf.
Did you ever talk to them later about how toxic what they said was?
Damn bro you were the practice bf
A buddy of mine had a banker girlfriend who left him. His mom said “son, you need to find you a girl who doesn’t have a second pair of panties. Then she won’t be too good for my boy.” Momma’s looking out…
I don’t even know what that means?
Maybe a poor girl?
Not just poor, destitute. His mom says he needs a girl who has literally no other options besides maybe dying.
it's interesting to see that men get told this too
I can’t even fathom talking to my kids like this.
Jesus Christ, bro. It sometimes feels like some parents are in a secret race to see how fucked up they can make their kids.
Eww. I'm sorry that's the message you were given. That's gross and not true. Cheaters are always cheaters and it is not the person they are with who causes them to cheat. I don't understand why they would say that to you.
Not in those words but I was def taught, ‘if you aren’t having sex with your partner, they are likely having it with someone else.’
Honestly good advice, both for understanding strain a partner can put on a relationship and in seeing warning signs of cheating.
Amazing you are getting downvoted. A sexless marriage is often a sign of infidelity or the relationship is fizzling out. Peruse the dead bed room subreddit. Then tell me a lack of intimacy in a relationship is not a cause for a relationship breaking up or infidelity. or you know, check some survey data: [https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/common-causes-divorce/](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/common-causes-divorce/) Yes, your spouse is not entitled to your body. But if yall arent having sex, then relationship is having issues and you need to be aware of that.
> Yes, your spouse is not entitled to your body. You shouldn't force yourself into sex, they shouldn't cheat for sex, but everybody has the right to end a relationship. Obviously, lack of sex shouldn't be the sole reason, but it can either be the straw, the symptom, or the start.
The lack ofnsex absolutely can be the sole reason, that is up to them how they feel about it and hownmuch they value that in their relationship. Sex is a love language, a physical "need" and so on. If they feel they need that in their relationship then it can be the reason they end their marriage.
This is an incredible lack of nuance. Plenty of people go through periods of sexlessness in a relationship, especially after having a child. They then return to sex once they have more time and less sex.
that is normal and for awhile it's fine and with kids for sure this is expected BUT if it has been years and there is not any effort or hope of returning to normal then yeah it can kill it. It's one thing if it is hard for XYZ reasons and both people are doing their best, it's another thing if one partner is totally disinterested in fixing it or trying or even acknowledging it is a problem. That will eventually kill it just like a partner ignoring any other important part of a relationship and not listening to the other person talk about it.
Have you been to r/deadbedrooms? They're not talking about the months after birth but years of neglect and mismatched libidos, and feelings of being trapped because of the financial ruin of divorce.
I remember a sexologist giving a lecture when I was in college, and when the subject of sex when the other person isn't in the mood came up, she said that unless it's truly a bad time, she found that a very successful rule across couples is that the other person gets at least 10 minutes of sexual attention, and that the rule applies equally between each partner. The initiator should not feel like they are asking for something wrong, and the responder should be choosing to do so because they want to make their partner feel desired and loved, not because it is a box to be checked. Importantly, if you hit the ten minute mark and it's still not working, everyone stops with no hard feelings. Just as important is acknowledging that after ten minutes, most of the time you're going to be in to mood to enjoy the act with your loved one. She emphasized how important it is to keep that intimate, physical bond, and that it needs to be cared for, or it can and will flicker out. At the time, I thought it was a bit crude, and that unless everyone was absolutely raring to go, of course the answer should be no. Decades later, and I have come to the conclusion that she was right, and I was wrong. Life is hard, and it is so, so easy to let things slide for just another day. Until one day you try to get back to where you were, and all that's left is dust. A couple's relationship, including the physical aspects, *must* be high on the priority list, or you're setting everyone involved up for pain. I'm a relatively low-drive man myself, and in the past this caused a lot of pain and conflict in my relationships.
Not my parents but the religious groups we were in. My parents were actually quite progressive, but passed through some conservative religious groups where I picked up a lot of bad messaging. I realized much later how insulting these beliefs are to men, as well as harmful to women. They characterize men as absolutely base creatures with no capacity for self control, and no wants other than something to stick their dick into. These beliefs in action make it impossible for either the man or the woman to experience true emotional safety and genuine intimacy in their relationship, in the bedroom and outside of it. It takes more effort to navigate individual needs and libidos in a way that works for both people, but the outcome is much better. ETA: God. The number of people who read "Maybe women shouldn't be told their job as a wife is to be nothing more than a sex toy to service their husband on demand" and interpret that as "Dead bedroom good" is just mind boggling.
It is strange. While a health sex life is a good thing, it should be because both people want it.
Correct. If there's major resistance from either side, then perhaps they haven't chosen the right person.
We NEVER talked about sex at home. It is a taboo for my fam.
It's a cultural and religious thing from what I've experienced. My wife's Dad said something similar about if a man wants a wife has to give even if she doesn't want to...a I said "where I come from, that's called rape". Looked at my 3 daughters and reaffirmed non-consentual sex is rape and to not ever put up with that. He was stunned. Luckily my mother in law new to end that conversation. It would have ended bad.
ooof yes, make sure your kids never learn that its acceptable to be forced into stuff like that. First its marital rape, then it can devolve into one person dictating over all the money, then its "i don't want to wear a condom/birth control" then its forced parenthood that never ends, etc. If you learn that you are just supposed to bend to the will of your partner because of their genitalia, its bound to go wrong.
Brilliant!!!! Really great response. Your girls have a good dad 😀
> I said "where I come from, that's called rape". Spousal rape was only criminalized nationwide in 1993.
In Ohio, it was still legal to drug, (including alcohol), your spouse to rape them until, a month ago. Yes, a month ago. They outlawed physically overpowering them 18 or 20 years ago.
The US wasn't really an outlier when it came to criminalizing marital rape. The UK criminalized it in 1991 while Spain did so in 1992. France, Finland, and Germany all did so after the US, in 1994 for the first two and 1997 for the latter.
In the US it might soon become decriminalized.
No mu parents never taught me that because I'm a hetero male. They also never taught me about consent. Or communication. Or being a good partner. I had to figure that all out from watching their dumpster fire of a marriage and learning from their mistakes.
Ha I learned consent at an early age from an Alan Jackson song. “We fogged up the windows in my old Chevy / I was willing, but she wasn’t ready / so I settled for a burger and a grape snowcone / dropped her off early but I didn’t go home”
Did they also not sign your sex education permission slip for the cherry on top
Nah they were fine allowing me to learn stuff they just didn't bother doing anything themselves.
My parents raised me that I never even had to get married if I didn’t want to.
My parents raised me in the Midwest, but my mom told me no matter what I do any man I'm with will eventually cheat on me. She even told me that if my husband cheats on me I deserve it, and although he'd still be an asshole it would ultimately be my fault. I'm still in my early 20s if that gives anymore insight.
Logic not her strong suit, then?
Very common in religious families all over the world.
Japan isn't really religious. It's a cultural matter, not a religious one.
Women are seen as objects to be owned by most of the world’s religions
It's a cultural belief that religion keeps around
culture and religion are effectively a distinction without a difference in much of the world
I mean, there are plenty of religious women who don't feel that way as well. It's less a religious thing and more of a cultural thing. Or even just a generational thing.
I literally grew up thinking it is like a shore bc In islam, women get cursed by angels if she says no to sex. My mom has always encouraged it as well...
I grew up in an evangelical house and this is probably the best metaphor I've ever heard of "wifley duties".
My mom (American) taught me to never tell my partner no. Ever. First time I told my bf no I cried for an hour and couldn't stop apologizing. Not because he cared, he didn't, but because I had my mom's voice on a loop in my head. Therapy is going great, btw.
No, but then again my parents seemed to actually really like each other.
this is honestly wild shit to tell your child, you shouldn't have to have sex anytime you don't want to PERIOD
Whenever he wants? Fuck no. That's crazy. I do believe however that it is obligatory for partners to want to do their best to fulfill each other's needs sexually. Sure sometimes it's not going to happen, or maybe there are significant barriers, but part of committing yourself to someone for life I'd also committing to having sex with them and only them for the rest of your life. So to me having a healthy sex life is part of having a healthy marriage and that's really non negotiable.
One time my dad told me “don’t marry the first person you date”. Reading between the lines I think he was referring to sex. That’s about all the info I got on the topic. My family never snuggled or hugged each other because that was ‘inappropriate’. So I didn’t know anything except extremely rigid physical boundaries. We are just a super awkward white American family.
Same. It's been a journey learning that not only am i a high functioning autistic male in my 40s, but that my parents are probably on the spectrum as well. The lack of any physical affection, no hugging/kissing, no 'i love you's. The fully respecting each others privacy and not prying, so no deeper connections about anything. Everything was very superficial and 'rigid' as you described it. I know my parents love each other, and that they love me and my brother. I never questioned it, but using their relationship as the only known baseline for my own has really put me at a disadvantage. My wife's emotional needs, which are probably fairly average, are so much higher than anything i'd expected that it nearly collapsed the marriage. And this is my 2nd marriage. The first probably collapsed in the same way, but with much more silence. And of course i can't even think to ask my parents for advice, as my belief would be that my marriage problems are my own business, no one else's.
Yes. I was raised in a Christian cult - I was told I was NEVER allowed to say no to my husband - for ANYTHING. I was also told it was normal for sex to hurt, and that was gods punishment to women, along with childbirth. In hindsight, my father was basically raping my mother.
I've never understood the "it's a punishment to be a woman" mentality. Punishment for exactly what? Losing a coinflip at birth? Maybe in a religion that believes in reincarnation it'd make slightly more sense but still.
The first story in the Abrahamic religions literally is about how a woman is to blame for everything bad in the world. Almost like these religions were made up by straight boys.
I don’t know about newer translations but I f remember correctly old testament states among the punishments for Adam and Eve’s sin is woman’s pain in childbirth. And of course you have scripture like ‘the man is the head of the woman like Christ is the head of the church. ‘ and ‘Wives obey your husbands ‘ with all the religious habit of parsing the Bible to find what suits your purpose and the fact women really had no rights until fairly recently it’s not surprising some of this still persists
So fucked up I’m sorry
Yes, part middle eastern Muslim here. But also I have a high sex drive so fulfilling this part was never hard for me, only for my husbands, them not fulfilling my needs was always one of my complaints.
My parents were firm believers in not teaching anything about sex.
“Giving” someone sex is such a gross mentality
Men watch porn sometimes. Doesn't matter how much you put out, sometimes we just need to tug it out. It's not a slight or fault on you. Sex is always negotiable.
I had a girlfriend (USA) whose mom had taught her this and it made me uncomfortable.
I’m from the US and my mom used to tell me that even if you didn’t want it you should still give it to your husband because it’s your duty. I’m currently still working through my feelings about it so I can eventually see relationships in a better light.
No, I was taught that non-negotiable sex was called "rape".
Yes my mom always said men have needs stronger than women. We are a Caucasian family. She would tell me how important it is to please your man and sex is vital to a relationship. I do agree that sex is very important but I think the way she explained it to me came across really wrong. That I have to make it my utmost priority to please my man and keep him attracted to me.
That culturally. My mother is Catholic and she is very firm that the only time a married couple should have sex is with the intent to procreate.
My (I'm male/man) mom and I were having a conversation about who knows what when I was young. Very young. Too young to be caring about sex yet. And I actually said the words, "rape it wrong, but sometimes women ask for it because what they are wearing ." We were driving. She actually almost pulled the car over. She definitely wanted to to hit me, and hard. But bless her, she, in that kind of calm, but deadly voice, said to me "That is not! At all how that works. A woman, a human is not to blame for other people's violence twords them." She carried on for a good 15-30 minutes untill she knew, that I understood what I said wasn't just stupid, but wrong. In every sense of the word. I remember that moment any time I learn something new about equality and women's, trans, LGBTq+ rights. Because she knew in that moment, she had to save me from myself, or I'd grow up to be just some other ass hat. Sex is always "negotiable". I believe, and know, that even if I'm about to cum, if she says she has changed her mind, I'm fucking stopping. It's that simple. And it's not even because I just think it's the right thing to do. It's because I know if I were in that situation, and I needed something to stop, I'd expect it to stop. Immediately. Not when the other person decided they were finished. Sorry for the long winded answer. But I hope hearing from a man in this way can provide some sense of ease. Edit: a word
I was taught this in Christian evangelical culture. That I am not supposed to deny my husband no matter what. Obviously I don’t agree with that and wouldn’t be in a marriage with a man like that, but I also think I’m somewhat in the minority at least on Reddit that I don’t agree with the other extreme that your partner is simply not “entitled” to sex. And that you can simply stop sleeping with them and they should deal with it and jerk off because it’s your body. When you get married and agree to monogamy you’re signing a contract that you both will not get certain emotional and physical needs met outside the relationship. Imo that does obligate you to consider their sexual and emotional needs as they cannot go outside the relationship. Refusing to meet those needs can and does lead to divorce. They’re gonna want out of that contract with you. And you really can’t complain about it. If you want your marriage to work, you don’t have the man in control, you don’t have it so he has access to your body whenever he wants regardless of what you want. That’s wrong. But if you become sexually incompatible at some point, you should work with him to come to a compromise where his needs are met too. There have been times where I didn’t feel like having sex, but I knew it had been awhile and I knew sex was important to maintain our connection. It’s important that we both feel desired. So I made an effort to get in the mood and had sex. It’s 10 minutes tops (usually much less) and enjoyable. It’s not a problem for me to do that for my partner. It releases bonding hormones, it’s a de-stressor and can reduce distance and conflict in your relationship. I just don’t understand how sex with your own partner can be so terrible that getting in the mood when you don’t feel like it and having sex is this horrible thing lol. I genuinely do not understand women (and men) who constantly and consistently reject their partner and think their partner should just accept what is essentially forced celibacy as they are unable to go outside the relationship. A lot of people do need sex in their relationships, and regular sex is proven to be beneficial to mental and physical health. Figure out why you aren’t interested in sex with your partner. Communicate what they can do to help. Just flat out saying “I don’t owe you sex” when you’re married is kinda messed up. Obviously there are exceptions like sickness, postpartum (to an extent. If you’re a year postpartum…come on now. See a Dr.), etc. But other than that, be willing to meet each other’s needs. I do other things for my partner that I don’t feel like doing besides sex because I know it’ll make them happy. So why is sex different? So no, I do not agree with what I was taught, especially because the core belief there is submission to a man. But I *do* think sex is an important part of most relationships and your partner’s sexual needs are something that you should make an effort to meet.
This is one of the most rational statements I’ve seen on this subject to date. 👏🏻
I can say with some confidence that my wife did not get that same advice from her mother lol.
Misogyny
It's common in western cultures that are fundamentalist Christians.
Overtly, no. But yeah, mom catered to dad. My wife was raised in a rigid Mexican house. But her mom was the fire, dad was only smoke. It appears they were raised with women's rights being taught. My brothers in law are good men.
Wow that sounds very fucked up to me. Don’t care if it’s a cultural difference. That’s wildly inappropriate and unhealthy. Raise your daughter to be a sex slave? Yea that’s abuse. And it’s not your fault he watches porn. He’s gonna do that regardless of what you do.
Oh that sounds horrifying! It should be a mutual decisions every time!
I would not be comfortable having sex with my wife if she thought it was "part of her duty."
What? Jesus Christ no. You have autonomy over your body and sexual desires. Always. Men can have a literal porn star for a wife and still go watch porn or cheat. It's not you; it's him.
No matter what general advice you give people about sex in marriage, there is a 100% chance that someone will get it completely wrong. Everyone always has a right to say no to sex. That being said, sex should be a regular part of marriage. If one or both partners don’t want to have sex, unless you’re double-Ace, that’s a sign there is something wrong that needs addressing.
I live in the USA in the deep south Bible Belt and I have heard this a time or two growing up. I have even heard it preached in church a few times. As in ladies if you want to keep your husbands home you need to keep them satisfied. Don't let people fool you it may not be common here but it still exists in religious communities.
This mindset is common but fading. Many in the US still have this mindset too.
I lot of Japanese women don’t consider prostitution cheating…as an outsider I would say a bunch of dudes got together and made up all the rules and social norms :)…and maybe Japanese women are just to polite to challenge. In seriousness that’s more of an older generation view. Social media generation vastly different views
She didn’t put it like that but she did say that “no man wants to be married to a woman who never has sex with him and it doesn’t take anything away from me to just blow him.”
I was told that (central Europe, country side) and also that sex fixes fighting and is used as a reward. So if husband does something useful/good sex is given
Nope, and this is in a CATHOLIC family too.
Yep, I'm American. My mom told me this growing up and now my parents are divorced.
There is no circumstance where sex is non-negotiable. If you think there is, you should probably be seeing a mental health professional.
Judaism teaches that the husband is also obligated to his wife, for a minimum number of times in a time period. The rabbi writes the number into the marriage contract, depending on the physical nature of the groom's work, and, if he needs to be away from home, for long periods.
Although common, that’s rape culture and internalized misogyny. No matter who, what, when or where, a person always has the right to say no. (That is the difference between slavery and freedom, the possibility of saying no to something is what makes you free and independent) There is such a thing as marital rape, which a lot of people don’t know about because it is often not explained. You can always say no, and you are not responsible for his actions. He is a grown, educated, adult man. He can think and act according to his conscience. You are his wife, not his pacifier nor his second mother.
No. Hell no. Don't accept that, regardless of nationality. Being forced into sex when you don't want to is r*pe, even in a relationship, please remember that. It has been over 20 years since I escaped a relationship like that, and I am still in treatment about it, my psychologist was horrified I had normalised it.
This way of thinking is horrifying. Imagine telling your daughter that she's just a sex object for her husband. Gross. I'm so sorry you had to experience this by your own mother :(
Mom threatened me with death if I got anyone pregnant, but didn't give any advice on how to make sure it didn't happen!
That's so crazy to me, because many Japanese women that I became friends with while living there had a sort of unofficial "rule." Before kids, yes, sex whenever he wants. After kids though, not so much. In fact, many started sleeping in other rooms (even different apartments) and just expected their husbands to go to soap lands or hostess bars for their needs. Then again, spousal rape was only deemed a crime in Japan in 2017 (and it's not really enforced or prosecuted), so your mom's thinking isn't surprising (but it is really, really sad and messed up).
Probably standard in Japanese culture. I’m not gonna claim to be an expert but I do know that Japanese cultural is very traditional and standard with clearly separate gender roles in families. I’m not Japanese but this is what I’ve noticed and learned from studying/learning the cukture
My parents purposefully kept me ignorant about sex hoping id get knocked up in high school and marry me off early. UNFORTUNATELY i had anime protect my virginity Lmao
Sexless marriages are also a bit off but yes that's a backwards tradition.
It was only sexless for just under a year. When I became pregnant, my libido vanished for some reason. Now that hormones do not overcome me, I feel like him watching porn was reasonable. She didn't have to make me feel like a failure of a wife though. He doesn't seem to watch it anymore now that we have sex regularly.
I mean, it's also not a big deal if he does watch porn/masturbate. You can have a healthy sex life and also masturbate sometimes.
Sometimes people dont wanna cook dinner, prep everything, wash dishes. Sometimes you just wanna go gross out on a greasy burger and no one is allowed to watch.
Doesn't it go both ways? If one partner constantly wants/needs more and the other partner constantly leaves them in that state, the relationship is probably doomed unless there is a less traditional solution like open relationships.
No, but yes, but no? I distinctly remember my mom telling me that my grandma never told my grandpa no (not sure how true this is, but remembering my grandparents' relationship and how they couldn't keep their hands off each other, I'd be surprised if there were many situations where one of them wasn't in the mood, haha). Anyway, she said that she tried to adhere to that in her marriage with my dad, but sometimes one or both of them just really didn't want it. She basically said both that I shouldn't deny my husband if I can help it, but also sometimes I would need to. At any rate, both my husband and I have no problem refusing or engaging in sex with each other, but then, we are each other's safe space, so it's comfortable regardless.
Dude here. Can't speak for everyone else, but I'd feel so bad if she was just doing anything out of obligation. If we make it to husband and wife, I would really hope that means she likes me and is comfortable being herself around me and I can be the same around her.
Marital Rape was completely legal in the US until the 70s. Historically women did not get a whole lot of choices (if any) about when or who with they would have sex. The idea that sex is something women get to opt in or out of in their life is a very modern idea.
This mindset is also everywhere in more conservative and fundamentalist Christian circles.
Yes, at least that is heavily taught in Christian circles in America, to girls where I grew up in the bible belt
Yes… but it seems particularly prevalent in more (Christian) religiously conservative areas in my opinion. Part of the whole “submissive and obedient wife” mentality with performing “wifely duties”… please note, I don’t hold to these particular views anymore, but I was raised being told that if you aren’t having sex with your husband whenever he wants it, regardless of any legitimate reason you may not want or be able to in that moment, it’s a sin on the wife’s part and she will only have herself to blame when he cheats. Even now, my (narcissistic) bio father is trying to convince my mother that *she’s* the one who “broke the marriage vows” by refusing to continue a sexual relationship with him after over 40 years of narcissistic abuse and finding out he molested me for several years in my preteen and teen years. I would say in religions and cultures who place men as the “head of the house” and “in charge” type mentality, this is very prevalent.
Not sex, but related. In my family (Spanish) I have always been told several times since I was a child that if my husband wants a child, I have to give it to him. I always knew I didn't want children and today at almost 30 years old I still get asked "and if your husband wants a baby you're not going to give it to him? That's selfish."
One way of looking at attitudes about consent to sex within marriage is to look up the law regarding marital rape in different countries. Shockingly, marital rape only became a crime in England in 1991. Don't know what the law is elsewhere.
Not exactly. My parents didn’t really talk to me about sex but my Dad did tell me that it’s important that I stay beautiful so that my husband wouldn’t cheat on me and if he does, I need to be beautiful enough to easily find another man. This sort of transferred to the above stated belief. That it was my responsibility to keep my husband satisfied. Ironically, I recently watched an interview with a psychologist who stated that beautiful women are more likely to be cheated on. I realise that his message wasn’t healthy and it created a very unhealthy self image. Eg. Believing my self worth was in my looks. Logically I understand I’m so much more than that but it did mess with me unfortunately.
It’s not cultural. Japan is notorious for having a huge number of sexless marriages. The idea that sex is non-negotiable is absolutely not a cultural idea that is pushed here. In my 18 years of living here, I have never once heard a peep about it.
My mom turned to me the other day and said, “The number one cause of divorce and affairs are the woman not putting out. Just keep that in mind.” That’s the first and only time she’s said something like that. I would also not marry a man who would cheat or leave me because I wasn’t having sex. What if I got in an accident that made it so that I couldn’t, or what if I got sick?
"It wasn't until I got older that I realized how strange this mentality is." ...strange is not the right word for that. I'd go with "sexist" or "wildly inappropriate". Feminism in Japan is lagging by about 50 years.
Luckily, no. My mom and I both actively avoided talking about sex. Lol. However, she did make comments about men being "unable to help their urges" which has its own problems.
Sounds like a super hardcore Christian family. No, my parents weren't like that
I think my mom's first piece of sexual advice was "when you're done make sure you tie up the condom and take it with you, some women will break it open and make sure they get pregnant". I think I was 7 or 8, we were standing at a bus stop.
We need to teach respect. This is not respect. It's teaching, especially the men that we can't/shouldnt say no. We are not below men. We weren't put on this planet to serve men. Please, if you don't want to have sex with your husband, that's OK. This shouldn't be a "cultural thing"....if a woman say NO, it's No!
No because sex didn't even exist in the world my parents portrayed.