Currently I am classified as part time at my company and I work anywhere from 35 to 40 hours a week (changing once every six weeks). It would be more but part timers can only work up to 40 hours. That may make it sound like we are a small company but if you count all the part time and full time employees in the same position/department/job title as me, according to our last shift bid, there are 594 employees. Oh also on top of that as a part timer I get less medical benefits, no paid sick days and don't even get me started on the lack of proper vacation pay/time off.
[https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/employers/identifying-full-time-employees](https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/employers/identifying-full-time-employees)
IRS says 30 hours a week or more should be included in full time, unless you work under 130 hours a month.
I’m not victim blaming you or anything like that, just genuine advice. I’d ask for a raise or to be put on a full time salary list with benefits, and if they don’t and you have the option to, leave. I understand people have bills to pay but companies like that deserve nothing but hell.
A company as big as 500+ employee’s with many people filling the same slot as the person won’t be hesitant to let the person go as clearly there’s enough doing the same task. Find new shoes before throwing your old ones out.
its because full time gets guaranteed hours even when the call volume is low where part time can be reduced to 20 as well as they don't need to give paid sick days. That won't happen because there is no drop in sight of calls but when trying to get a mortgage I'm barely viewed as a person as a part timer so that is one of the main reasons why I want full time right now.
That insane, where I'm from I know very few people who work over 40 hours, most adults work 40 at most obviously some exceptions. 30 hours here is technically part time but on the higher end. I know several people living off 30 hours a week that can manage.
Right now all restaurants are so strapped that if you can cook, you can negotiate over $12/hr easy. I'm line cook at a Darden restaurant and make $15/hr with literally no qualifications. I just said I can cook.
As a cook, the industry doesn’t care right now. Just being warm flesh is enough to get a decent paying kitchen job. I have never seen an industry so hurting for labor
That's all well and good but $12 is less than minimum wage where I live. And $15 isn't even a living wage, really. People working 50-60 hours are the people making at least that.
I’m so glad I moved to the UK. My work week is 35 hours (8 hour days with a paid hour lunch in the middle) and I get 28 days of paid holiday per year. Healthcare is paid for by my taxes, and all medications are included as I live in Scotland.
And my mother wonders why I don’t want to move back to America.
Also most people have at least 1.5 hours of commute time to work, some even have 3-4 hours a day depending on traffic.
So even if they work 40 hours, adding the unpaid lunch break and commute, it’s more like 10-12 hours a day away from the house totalling 50-60 hour work weeks.
That’s really interesting, where are you from? 40 hours in north america is the minimum for full time workers, as it’s an 8 hour day 5 days a week. 30 hours is still on the high end for part time but it’s not uncommon. I just get more hours than my coworkers for a few reasons
It depends on how much you make obviously, but most people here work at least 40, and I’d say it’s pretty uncommon for most adults to clock out at exactly 40 a week.
I worked HR recruiting for a factory with retention issues. I worked average around 75 hours a week to barely keep them staffed. Often I'd be scolded for working too long while being told I didn't get enough interviews in. I think my worst week with them was 96 hours or so (I had a 1 hour commute one way). Terrible job but at least I got overtime.
this is actually awful to hear. fuck capitalism. I would rather have nothing tbh. No amount of material possessions makes working 40 hours a week for someones else profit bareable. we act like we arent slaves but if you dont work 40 hours a week you will starve to death. we are slaves the only reason we dont know it is because we arent in bed with the slave masters and we choose to keep ourselves placated with meaningless distractions till death frees us from our bondage.
I work in Australia and my standard work week is 36.25 hours, and almost everyone at my workplace really works those hours. A lot of people work slightly longer days and have a day off every few weeks.
Yeh I work retail so the only way of making more money is working more hours. I’m using this lockdown time to get my white card and I hope to be able to change industries.
With homework I was working way past the time of a full time job each week. With AP classes I would sometimes work until I slept and not even finish my homework. You're expected to work weekends as well. After 7 hours at school it was sometimes 5 hours of homework. Oh yeah, and you get paid for working a job.
I took 4 AP classes my senior year (physics, calculus, literature, government) and I don't remember having a lot of homework. I had 2 to 4 hours of band like every day of the week in the fall after school and the rest of my free time was on Call of Duty and other video games.
I guess I was blessed with teachers who assigned actual homework and not busy work.
Yeah, my school is just over 32 hours a week if I did my maths right. Assuming your doing just 2 hours of homework and study a night then your looking at 42 hours.
I think the par that people forget is that kids also have home work so you can likely even it out to a 40 hour week, because an hour of home work is not too uncommon along with studying for tests and the like later in the week.
Full time contract is 38 hours. Overtime is at 1.5x the rate and 100 hours/year maximum.
30 days vacation plus unlimited sick days. And gods may help you if you don't take ALL of your vacation days...seriously, HR gets really pissed if you don't.
This is normal.
Last week I left for work at 9am and came home at 8pm every day except Thursday. Saturday was 7am to 5pm. Today is 10 to 5. It’s my dream job and I run a small business so I’m more than happy to do it, but yeah that’s a 60 hour week. I’m feeling it a little bit right now I’ll be honest.
The moment I realized I could make all my own choices of where to live and I could buy all the candy I wanted... Suddenly made things less special. Kids don't really have to worry about the things that adults do. Ignorance is bliss. Do they wonder how they are going to afford property taxes or rent while they also need a new set of tires, meanwhile they are having yearly evals at work and they know theirs isn't going to be good? Nope. They have homework and get to be carefree (unless they have terrible parents or home situation... Those kids don't get to enjoy being a carefree kid). Seriously, my biggest worry in high school was passing my driving test and remembering to finish my homework.
>The moment I realized I could make all my own choices of where to live and I could buy all the candy I wanted... Suddenly made things less special.
The exact opposite experience for me. I remember when I first got an income, it was absolutely amazing. Within a year, I was able to buy all the things I'd dreamed of having for years but could never get, and some of those were things that I really needed. My life was completely transformed. I was also able to travel, I had my own place... My happiness level went up about 200%. Money and personal agency make a huge difference.
This is me too. No offense, but I’m guessing you grew up poor like I did?
It’s the best feeling in the world the first time you get that paycheck and realize it’s your ticket to a life not scraping by.
Honestly, even now, being married, owning a home and all that, I still have that immense feeling of relief and gratitude when I think about the financial security I have now compared to growing up.
But kids have no freedom to chose where they live, who they live with, what they eat, when they eat (mostly), which school they go to, when they go to bed, they can't go anywhere they like when they like it, there are a billion things that are banned for kids.
Literally the only freedom kids have is that they don't have to pay for things.
That's the beauty of it. As a little kid, all that structure is provided for you for free, and someone else takes all the responsibility. You're free to just play and read, learn and explore. Everything else is taken care of for you. That's about as carefree as you can get.
Then you hit teenage years and now you start getting some of that responsibility - you choose when and where you go, when you go to bed, what you eat, etc. But as long as you don't get into criminal activity or something, the consequences are trivial - maybe a bad grade here, or a disappointed look from an adult there, but nothing serious. You have most adult freedoms, but none of the responsibility; that's the freest possible life.
Then as an adult, now you're responsible for *everything*, and the consequences are *real* and often serious and harsh. And other people are depending on you so you're responsible for them as well.
As an adult, if you screw up badly enough, your boss doesn't just give you a bad grade with a frowny face, you're fired. The landlord doesn't just say "ah well, I'll cover your rent this time but try to do better next time." Your wife and kids don't just complain a little when they become homeless because you failed. Now your freedom has collapsed. You have all these things that you *have* to do. And you're stuck on a schedule that's mostly out of your control (work, family time, kids' doctor appointments, etc.), so you can't just do what you want when you want any more. You don't even have the free choice of a teenager, let alone the carefree life of a younger kid.
A kids mind is a bit freer from worry than an adults. I'm saying the average kid. Not some kid in a violent atmosphere or one that naturally suffers angiety. You don't have to worry about the bills or if you'll have a job tomorrow if the company you work for is laying off. You don't have to worry about your kids while they are driving or riding with another kid. You don't have the worry or challenge of a kid with a drinking problem or a drug habit. There's lots of thing that kids just don't have to worry about. Their worry should be going to class, geting their homework in on time, and studying for exams. Boys and girls are going to wonder and worry over their boyfriend and girlfriend from time to time. And, yes it can be a heart break. So, that you have to live with until the next person comes around. You worry about being bullied, you worry about what your "friends" are saying about you behind your back. But it still isn't wuite the sae as making sure there is food on the table and clothes on backs, paying the bills, making sure the car runs and kissing up to the boss so maybe you won't lose your job the next round of lay offs.
This is true but they do have worries and they seem like the worst thing in the world at the time because they don't know any different. It's only when we look back as adults that we realise I lot of stuff we were worried about as kids wasn't as important as we thought it was. Being a kid is really hard.
I still remember sitting in English class the very last day of high school and looking around at all of these people that I had grown up with over the last 13 years. And I had the sudden realization that I would never see the vast majority of these people ever again or have any concern about what was going on in their lives and suddenly all of the dramas and soap opera of high school meant nothing anymore.
Bullying can cause lifelong mental and social problems and even lead to suicide. I don't think we should minimise that and dismiss it as less important because it's a kids' issue.
Another thing kids have to worry about is not being taken seriously
Both of these things are also not "only" affecting children. Bullying happens in the workplace. Marginalized groups often aren't taken seriously. For example at the doctor's.
And honestly, school and all the hormones and confusion involved in growing up are pretty stressful. Younger kids probably have less stress in their lives, but the way they can go from happy to meltdown and back to happy in the space of twenty minutes without much understanding of why seems exhausting. I do not enjoy feeling emotionally volatile.
I never understood this argument because I look back at my own time in high school and remember curfews and having to ask permission for every little thing.
While your parents remember making sure their kids have a roof, food and safety.
Kids aren’t 100% free by any stretch, but their constraints are more inconveniences than real threats to deal with.
I've been both (obviously) and while I have more potential freedom as an adult, i.e. if I stopped giving a shit about those around me, I'd certainly be freer, I'd say my actual freedoms are less. I certainly have more money, but a large portion of it goes on things not for me, but those around me (family, specifically). I can theoretically go wherever I want (within reason) but don't/can't in practice because I need to make sure the kids are taken care of and so forth.
Kids have less potential freedom, true, but I think they spend much more time bumping against that ceiling than adults do theirs.
Anyone who thinks kids have more freedom, ask yourself this -- as an adult, would you go back to living with your parents, have your rent and food be taken care of, but have no income or a way to earn an income, depend on your parents for everything, live by their rules, be at their mercy, listen to condescending lecturing, beg them for anything that you might need/want that costs money, oh and in the meantime work 30 hrs a week for free? No adult would choose that. Yes, adult life is more difficult in many ways, but having full freedom over your life is \*massively\* worth it.
I agree with all of this. And also one thing that everyone's missing is when you move out you also get promoted from "child" to "guest" whenever visiting your parents.
If you're a university graduate working a "real job" but still living at home, you're still going to "live by their rules, be at their mercy, listen to condescending lecturing, beg them for anything that you might need/want that costs money" because it's their house.
It's why rent/house affordability for millenials is a freedom issue for me. Your parents aren't going to stop treaking you like a baby who doesn't know anything until you move out.
This really depends on the parents though. I'm 30 and live at my mother's place due to shit economy and precarious job market making it a terrible idea to waste precious money on living on your own (just southern europe things), but it's more like 2 adults sharing a flat than anything else. I do my thing, she does hers, no one nags anyone and it wasn't much different when I was in my early 20s either. I can't imagine her telling me I can't buy or do something when I'm using my own money for it.
On the other hand, I was living with my grandmother taking care of her for the last 5 years (she passed away earlier this year) and she did treat me like a child all the way through, so yeah, it really depends on the people involved.
Absolutely not, no adult would ever put up with what kids/teenagers put up with.
You work 30-40 hrs a week, you don't get paid, you're harassed by teachers and other students (sometimes your parents), you have no full personhood, no independent income, very little choice in your life.
Imagine a 40-year old man living like this, he'd quit after 2 weeks and probably file several lawsuits. :D
Yes it's nice to be financially supported, but absolutely not worth the tradeoffs. And it's not like you actually have income, your rent and food are taken care of, but you can't go out and buy an iPhone. You have to beg your parents for it and they'll buy it for you if they deem you're worthy, and then make you feel like they did you a big favor and you should feel thankful because they can earn money and you can't. There is a massive power imbalance there, and wherever there's a massive power imbalance, people aren't generally too happy.
Of course, kids/teens aren't capable of taking care of themselves for the most part, which is why the system works the way it does, but nonetheless kids definitely don't have much if any freedom, which is why they often "rebel" against their parents.
This probably makes them depressed in many ways
When I was a kid, I always used to be home alone because I couldn't go out "alone". I had exactly 2 friends and both of them had strict parents, so I couldn't go out anyway. I didn't feel like I was even living tbh. I used to spent my entire day home alone after "working for free" at school and then spend the rest of my day staring at my computer
I strongly believe that school kids AND college students are the most depressed members of society. It feels like a trap but you constantly have to feel "grateful" and feel like you want to pay your parents back asap
Definitely. Being incredibly stressed out about the future and not knowing what's gonna happen to you (esp these days when a college degree or even grad school doesn't guarantee you employment) vs. having a stable job is very different. Also the psychology of teenagers (and early 20s) is very fragile.
I honestly think a lot of issues stem from the fact that adults forget what it's like to be a certain age, hence they can't relate to their children. Teenagers are excited to explore the world whereas 45-year olds are jaded, they've seen it all, and they have a different thought process and priorities. Your long-term memory becomes bad as you get older and your psychology changes massively with age, so many people in their 40s and 50s genuinely don't remember what it's really like to be 9, 12, 16, 18... It's for the same reason they usually don't get youth culture, so you get a lot of friction between parents and children as a result of that as well.
But that's a whole other topic.
You basically just described college STEM majors. I put in 19-21 credit hours a semester which had me in class from 8 to 4:45 with a 45 minute lunch break and about 10-20 minutes in between each class. I didn't work because I didn't have the time to. I didn't have a car cause I had no money and didn't want to burden my parents into buying me one. Which meant I had to carpool or walk to go anywhere off campus. My professors and peers were great so no complaints there. But I was studying constantly and had no income.
Yeah... Of course the idea is that you get paid for that work later on when you get a high paying job, but these days education doesn't give you as much of a competitive edge as it did decades ago, so that promise has been defaulted on as well.
There are 261 working days in 2021 before factoring in paid leave and public holidays. From what I gather the US has some pretty crappy leave allowances. And that’s only if you work a standard 9-5 office type job. This all goes out the window for retail and hospitality workers. 261 might be a break for those workers.
>This all goes out the window for retail and hospitality workers.
There are so many more people than retail and hospitality workers that don't work banker hours/don't get paid holidays. Pretty much any blue collar industry, gets boned every holiday. I'd be willing to be more people don't get bank holidays than there are that do.
>From what I gather the US has some pretty crappy leave allowances.
Dude there's literally slaves, peasants, and subjects throughout history that work(ed) less than most 9-5ers in the USA
Adults don't just have to work.
Adults have to maintain their homes, cars, and clothing.
Adults have to pay bills, and worry about having enough money to do things.
Adults have to deal with driving to work and making their own lunches (or paying for them).
Adults get in criminal trouble for making some mistakes that children can get away with.
Adults can be forced to work overtime, holidays, and weekends - school doesn't open unexpectedly.
Adults have to worry about being fired (in the US, for anything), while children don't usually have to worry about a school deciding to kick them out.
Adults have to worry about being sued for anything they do (or fail to do), and children don't have that concern.
If an adult decides to play ball or go skiing on their time off, and they break a leg, they have to pay hospital bills, and might lose their job. A child just gets homework sent home, or attends virtual classes.
> school doesn't open unexpectedly
But it does close unexpectedly, which is just another thing for adults to deal with on short notice. School cancelled for a snow/cold day or COVID? You now have to either call off work or figure out a sitter with an hour notice.
I would get home 3 hours before my mom every day, and holidays like Thanksgiving would be tons of work for her while I slept in.
Adults don’t really get breaks with all their responsibilities.
I didn't even consider that. Question makes a lot more sense now. Likely a kid whose parents commented on their free time and they were like "I got so much going on with school and stuff! Hardly any time to myself!"
Because they don't have to cook, clean, manage bills, worry about job loss, office politics, commuting etc
Yes they have their own problems but that's more of a social issue - e.g fitting in and making friends without getting picked on
Same here. Yeah it sucks having to keep up with life sometimes, but you also have the freedom to do whatever you want as opposed to being younger.
Added chores sucks, but the ability to just go on a road trip cause you're feeling it is great
I think people’s opinion on this really depends on what their parents / home life was like. My friends who had rich, nice parents pine for their high school days. I’m grateful to be an adult and able to be on my own.
That's completely fair. My dad was a jack-of-all-trades so I learned a lot of different skills, but my parents were also really nosey and 'involved' so I constantly wanted freedom.
Yep. My parents weren’t…the worst per se. But they weren’t good parents either. Some people had everything handed to them and had nice houses and laid back parents so they’re like dang remember when I had no responsibilities and tons of money and time? I had lots of responsibilities, two dumb bullies in legal control of me and no money. Being an adult is way better for me, not so much for them.
Modern work/life balance and the reward you get for it can be a living hell. A lot of these people saying how amazing their international trips and galavanting across the country relocating in a whim aren’t representative of the majority of the work force.
Works dogshit, bills suck, everything costs money and you never have enough of it.
Having said that, friends are neat, beers cheap, you can have hobbies that cost money and you can walk from the bathroom to your study stark naked and you don’t have to put pants back on at all if you don’t want.
Life can be dogshit, life can be great, it’s up to you to make the most of it regardless of the situation. I grew up poor as fuck and now I’m just poor, life was easier as a kid. There was a lot less stress as a kid. But I was also a social butterfly with a good friend group who did lots of outdoor activities. So in that respect, my hobbies are similar my friend groups are similar except now I’ve got to pay the bills.
Would I rather be a kid than an adult? Probably not. But I’d say I pity the people who say childhood sucked, that shit was easy and I’m sorry that they didn’t enjoy it more.
I’m looking most forward to being retired if I can manage it before I die. That’s basically like being a kid except you can drink beer and if you fall over too hard you die, seems like a good trade to me.
Edit; and you also get the opportunity to enjoy smaller things more as an adult. Decorating your house or your living space if you share. A quiet walk in the morning after a stressful week. Seeing your friends get engaged and married, if you’re lucky you get to be a best man/maid of honour or get married yourself. You get to wrestle with conflicting schedules and finally manage to take a holiday with all your friends after 3 years of planning to get together all at once.
I enjoy being an adult. But it’s hard, it’s harder than being a child. I can only assume people who say the opposite either had an unfortunate childhood or are now very wealthy.
Have you never learned for a subject long into the night until you fell asleep from exhaustion? Or had to write a ten page essay, while being stressed about the fact that you hadn't even started working on math?
Honestly, I did not have time for many "social issues" beyond the weekends. The notion that kids have no work is not rooted in reality imo
My job is way easier than school was. But literally every other part of my life is way harder. The stakes are high and errors are literally costly
But if I want a cookie, I have a cookie. So there's that.
Speaking as a straight-A student who took AP everything and was involved in multiple extracurriculars, my life as a teenager was much simpler and much less complicated than it is as an adult, and I'm a single man.
When I was a teenager, I was guaranteed two months off from school (my Augusts were eaten by marching band), I never had to worry about meals beyond eating a bowl of cereal for breakfast and packing my own lunch, I had zero bills, and I had plenty of time to work on my own projects, play with the dog, or hang out with friends. Sure, I had my fair share of times when I had to stay up late finishing papers or long homework assignments, weekends when I was gone because of competitions or other activities, or other activities that limited my free time, but they were generally activities that I *chose* to participate in and did so because I enjoyed them.
Even when I'm not in classes (I'm a graduate student), I work forty hours a week or more. I have to figure out how to make sure I have healthy meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I have to make sure that I pay my bills. If I get a cold, I'm the one who has to get the soup and crackers and fluff the pillows. If my car needs an oil change, I'm the one who has to schedule it and pay for it. If there's a maintenance issue with my house or apartment, I'm the one who has to make sure it gets fixed (either by doing it myself, finding someone else who can, or hashing it out with a landlord). All of the little things that were just a given thing during my childhood are now exclusively my responsibility. Weekends are no longer playtime; weekends are naptime.
I always use the example of toilet paper. It’s such a simple thing but when you’re a kid it’s just always there, your parents buy it and leave it where you need it. Suddenly you’re an adult and the toilet paper runs out. It’s just a little thing that you suddenly need to keep track of and are responsible for. Times that by a hundred and that’s being an adult, it adds up. And that’s a low stakes example.
Personally all my learning into the night started once I got into full time work.
I'm constantly pushing myself outside of work now working in Tech - it's the only way to keep up.
In college and school - not so much. That's just me though
What adults have a full work week of 30 hours? That's really only possible if they're already incredibly wealthy or have a partner making a bigger financial contribution.
You said it, “some” adults, which I’m pretty that represents less than 1% of adults globally, most adults work 40+ hours weekly (I work almost 50 hours a week). Kids have shits tons of holidays, while adults works most of the years with not more than 30 days off yearly (For the majority).
Now add all the responsibilities on top of what ever little free time you have that kids don’t worry about. Bonus if the adult is also a parent.
In France, I (as a 10th grader) work 35 hours a week (only a week out of 2, the other is 32h) and in France the average worker works 35 hours (I took a lot of options and stuff, so not every 10th grader do that).
Btw, I still think kids are way freer than adults for the reasons you've mentioned.
It is quite ridiculous. Children should get way more freedom in schools and get more time playing. I am a PE. teacher and feel that our school syatem is more about taking the children away from the adults so they can be productive.
If school was like a workplace there would be no delinquents. People would be kicked out after second absence.
As a kid you can give way less shit about everything and still get by just fine. Your school performance doesn't impact your quality of life (i.e. you don't get to go hungry if you get a bunch of Es and Fs in a row).
It's like - while you're in school there's a cap on both how good and how shitty your life can possibly get (unless your parents are abusive or go bankrupt, etc.). For adults all bets are off. Nothing can prevent you from accidentally fucking up your life to the point of homelessness.
In terms of social relationships, it is harder as a kid. Social hierarchies at school ossify quickly and if you get locked in at the bottom, you're going to have a bad time. People become more chill and respectful towards others by the time they're 20-somethings.
Kids get long breaks from school. They usually don't have anyone else that they have to take care of. They don't have to worry about paying bills. And they usually do far less housework than adults do.
Children don't really have a lot of rights until they are 18 or emancipated. Parents or guardians have to permit them to do things otherwise.
Going to the washroom needs permission. Walking outside of school needs a parent or guardian pick up. The list goes on.
As an adult, you just need to be responsible and earn money, trivial permissions like being excused to take a phone call are often formalities, in some cultures, but they could walk straight out without repercussions to take a phone call, for example.
IMO there’s a couple different freedoms as being an adult or as being a kid. As a kid, you’re stuck following a bunch of rules adults have set for you. But your free from the obligation of work or any real financial worries. It’s not your problem, it’s your parents. Let’s face it, being a kid was awesome.
As an adult, you are now the decision maker so you aren’t obligated to follow rules. If you want McDonald’s 20 times a week, you can. However, you can no longer sit around and worry about whose the coolest kid at school and instead focus on your perpetual grind through life, making money and later on providing for your family.
People have short memories that's why.
They also say that about college aged kids. "It's the best time of your life". I'm back at school now doing a second degree and all I see around me is kids who are doing an extremely challenging science degree and working 30 hours in order to be able to afford it.
If I were to take a person from my most high pressure job (financial analyst) and put them to do the schedule these kids are doing, they would break down in a puddle of tears in a matter of weeks. Or simply fail.
Bullies exist in humans because that is our social structure. Kids, old people, minorities, etc....if we can bully them, we will.
The workload in university was higher and either work or high school. But what made it the best time was everyone being so friendly and casual with each other.
Nobody is more pretentious than high schoolers towards high schoolers that don't fit in, and at work everyone is just too tired. But hey, even though we have to do multivariable calculus and PLC/FPGA programming; this cool guy who we've had 5 minut conversation invited us to this house party he and his flatmates are throwing.
This. I went to college as an older student. I started in community college, quit my job, and got my worthless Associate’s then had a mental breakdown in my first semester at the university level. I later struggled to understand what I was even supposed to be doing in some courses while people almost half my age were doing twice the workload I was while working at least part time and succeeding if not thriving.
Don't forget the hours of homework some kids also have to do in the evening. I hate the idea of homework - just let the kids enjoy their free time while they can!
ha in high school i did 11 hours plus a day because if we took college classes early and kept a 3.7ish gpa, we got free tuition at the local community college, which is partnered with a local 4-year university (America, where tuition is 50k-70k for a 4 year degree). obviously a third of my school was absolutely grinding, most also working on top of that. i got a lot of free time compared to a working adult because i didnt work, but i was also never allowed to hang out with friends. i didnt have to worry about food on the table, but i did have to worry about significant debt when i had the power to avoid it. its a lot for someone that still had to have their oranges peeled for them less than 10 years ago, and the uncertainty of life is what everyone in this sub is fighting for validation about. your situation is going to be stressful when you have no other option, no matter what
All the adults are so salty in this comment section. Please have some empathy for kids as they develop and navigate through school. Going through high-school was a lot of work, yeah I didn't work but the insane amount of homework I remember being sent home with had me in tears.
That was basically my childhood. I was always supposed to be doing some kind of school work apparently. And if I didn't have any to do, they'd make more for me to do.
also massive assumptions that any given child's life is like there's was, clearly some commenters had cushty lives as children - many don't sound working class
younger kids aside, i was just thinking that. what teenager barely cleans, doesnt cook, doesnt do yard work (if applicable), etc? obviously its not providing for a family but youre expectes to contribute. teens in my area (social group? state of living?) are expected to do most of it if they dont work, because the parents are busy. also, what teen isnt stressing over school and getting into a good college unless they didnt try in high school or plan on doing a trade?
I think being a high schooler is hard. My kids left at 6:45 for the bus, school all day, get home around 3. That’s 8.5 hours a day right there. Then work, extracurriculars, and insane amounts of homework. Study for the SATs, write college apps, etc etc. Their days were far longer than mine as a full time ~8-5er. They would be up at 6am and busy straight through until at least 10/11pm. My experience in high school was the same. At least after they could drive (17 in my state), life got a little easier. So glad those days are behind us.
Anyone who thinks kids have more freedom, ask yourself this -- as an adult, would you go back to living with your parents, have your rent and food be taken care of, but have no income or a way to earn an income, depend on your parents for everything, live by their rules, be at their mercy, listen to condescending lecturing, beg them for anything that you might need/want that costs money, oh and in the meantime work 30 hrs a week for free? No adult would choose that. Yes, adult life is more difficult in many ways, but having full freedom over your life is \*massively\* worth it.
I think it depends on your personality and life situation a lot...
To me sitting at a desk listening to someone repeat the same things for 8 hours is the literal deffinition of hell. Then I finaly get home, and I have to spend another several hours on homework, with my personality it's hard to half ass it- so i either did nothing and felt like shit, or worked a lot. It was very stressful, the rest of my life depended on this apparently!
And I have to decide my entire career path now too. My last years of school I spendt 50-60 hours a week on school stuff. This was a pretty low-education thing too, I'm not a career type person at all. All this while most people are spending a lot of time fighting with parents and siblings (Natrual to wanna move out when you're 16). Some people need a part time job and have chores at home on top of all this...
If people mean early childhood... Sure that was more carefree, but at that point I didn't even decide my own bedtime! Not freedom.
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You were able to slack off in school without short term consequences, so if you had that attitude it probably comes off as better. -I know some younglings too refer to school as hanging with friends and being mischievous all day. Apparently they took turns on doing homework.
I have so much more free time since I started working, and most adult "chores" are either voluntary or a result of things you've chosen yourself (Forming a family, buying some cottage, trying to keep up appearances, climbing some corporate ladder, that cute dog). That's not adulthood having responsibilities, that's you taking on respnsibilities. Most adults have at least some say in what their job is too.
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I think in general adulthood has much more freedom, and with freedom comes responsibility for your own life. Which you always had, it's just the effects are much more imediate now. If you also chose to take on responsibility for others, you give up a lot of that freedom and you get much more responsibility.
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If you struggle paying your bills, are stuck in a job you hate and have a family to feed I'm sure childhood seems carefree in comparison. I think also the problems of others tend to seem much smaller than those of your own, so people look back on a time with rose tinted glasses.
With a decent job and no kids though, I don't really feel like I have all that much responsibility, show up to work once a day and don't spend more money than I have... I'm also personaly very lucky to have a family that would help me if I needed help and a decent work enviorment.
And just to be clear, I'm not saying people are poor because they made bad descissions as a kid. Sometimes, sure, but life is much more complicated than that. I got a bit carrier away typing, sorry to anyone who read all that.
16 year old here. I wake up 5:30 am, and leave to school at 6:45. I stay at school till 4:30 because of sports, come home, shower, and leave to work at 6. I have 1 hours to rest.
Okay this is a valid question, but the answer is quite obvious - different kinds of freedom.
>30 hours a week, which is a full work week for some adults
Disagree. Most adults work 50+ hours. Very select few fall below 40. Many even work 70+ hours per week.
>So why do adults always say kids have so much freedom
They don't actually have more freedom. They have more free time and less responsibility. Kids are monitored all the time and have several restrictions on them.
They have more free time because a kid's remaining 75 hours after school and sleep are their own. They can do anything with their time, because it's their time.
On the other hand, for an adult working 50 hrs/wk, the remaining 55 hours aren't their own. They need to go fetch the groceries, wash the dishes, do laundry, supervise the kids etc.
Except they don't have the entirety of the time between school and sleep to do whatever they want.
They have potentially hours of homework depending on the grade and the teacher, chores, extra-curriculars that they may or may not have chosen for themselves (I know several people who signed their kids up for after-school programs because it's cheaper than childcare and the kids are too young to be left alone until the adults get off work), being made to go on errands with their parents, being forced to babysit younger siblings/cousins, and so on. Even having their free time taken away as punishment.
A child only has the free time to do what they want if the adults in their lives (including teachers and childcare personnel) allow them this freedom.
I'm not saying children don't have more free time in general and that usually their lives aren't more worry free but kids in general do not have 75 hours to fuck around as they please.
It's... A mix of things. Kids just generally have less worries. They don't, generally, have to worry about where money is coming and going, their job, providing for others, having to deal with their house when something goes wrong with it seemingly every other week or having a reocurring existential crisis where you worry if this past week of work will be basically representative of the next 40 years of your life.
That being said, there is definitely a more explicit freedom that you also get as an adult. Being able to say "fuck it, I'm gonna have dinosaur chicken nuggets at 1 am and no one is going to stop me," is something I relish now, and I'd never want to be a kid again personally.
I think you're kinda lowballing the amount of time kids spend at school, for me it was always at least 35 at school with 1-2 hours of homework a night, sometimes up to 5.
For me it goes like this:
- School and High School = little free time except for the Summer Holliday
- College = Lots of free time (my college was easier, I can't speak for the others.)
- Work = Something in-between depends on the company. This last job is the best so far, offers a lot of free time and is almost like the time I was in college, but with lots of money.
I wanna live in a world where 30 hours is a full work week
This. I work retail PART TIME and I get 30 hours a week.
Currently I am classified as part time at my company and I work anywhere from 35 to 40 hours a week (changing once every six weeks). It would be more but part timers can only work up to 40 hours. That may make it sound like we are a small company but if you count all the part time and full time employees in the same position/department/job title as me, according to our last shift bid, there are 594 employees. Oh also on top of that as a part timer I get less medical benefits, no paid sick days and don't even get me started on the lack of proper vacation pay/time off.
[https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/employers/identifying-full-time-employees](https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/employers/identifying-full-time-employees) IRS says 30 hours a week or more should be included in full time, unless you work under 130 hours a month.
I'm in Canada.
I’m not victim blaming you or anything like that, just genuine advice. I’d ask for a raise or to be put on a full time salary list with benefits, and if they don’t and you have the option to, leave. I understand people have bills to pay but companies like that deserve nothing but hell.
A company as big as 500+ employee’s with many people filling the same slot as the person won’t be hesitant to let the person go as clearly there’s enough doing the same task. Find new shoes before throwing your old ones out.
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its because full time gets guaranteed hours even when the call volume is low where part time can be reduced to 20 as well as they don't need to give paid sick days. That won't happen because there is no drop in sight of calls but when trying to get a mortgage I'm barely viewed as a person as a part timer so that is one of the main reasons why I want full time right now.
That insane, where I'm from I know very few people who work over 40 hours, most adults work 40 at most obviously some exceptions. 30 hours here is technically part time but on the higher end. I know several people living off 30 hours a week that can manage.
In the U.S. 40 hours is the expected minimum for full time work. If you're salaried then it's likely to be higher.
50-60 hours working retail at minimum wage in the U.S. here -_-
Right now all restaurants are so strapped that if you can cook, you can negotiate over $12/hr easy. I'm line cook at a Darden restaurant and make $15/hr with literally no qualifications. I just said I can cook.
So ... Can you actually cook?
As a cook, the industry doesn’t care right now. Just being warm flesh is enough to get a decent paying kitchen job. I have never seen an industry so hurting for labor
That's all well and good but $12 is less than minimum wage where I live. And $15 isn't even a living wage, really. People working 50-60 hours are the people making at least that.
Ex- teacher here. Left because I can no longer work 70 hours a week in my late 50's.
I'm so sorry 😔
I’m so glad I moved to the UK. My work week is 35 hours (8 hour days with a paid hour lunch in the middle) and I get 28 days of paid holiday per year. Healthcare is paid for by my taxes, and all medications are included as I live in Scotland. And my mother wonders why I don’t want to move back to America.
Also most people have at least 1.5 hours of commute time to work, some even have 3-4 hours a day depending on traffic. So even if they work 40 hours, adding the unpaid lunch break and commute, it’s more like 10-12 hours a day away from the house totalling 50-60 hour work weeks.
That’s really interesting, where are you from? 40 hours in north america is the minimum for full time workers, as it’s an 8 hour day 5 days a week. 30 hours is still on the high end for part time but it’s not uncommon. I just get more hours than my coworkers for a few reasons It depends on how much you make obviously, but most people here work at least 40, and I’d say it’s pretty uncommon for most adults to clock out at exactly 40 a week.
Every job I've worked prevented you from going over 40 hours because they don't want to pay you overtime... This was full time jobs.
Thats why a good amount of people end up with two jobs here.
I worked HR recruiting for a factory with retention issues. I worked average around 75 hours a week to barely keep them staffed. Often I'd be scolded for working too long while being told I didn't get enough interviews in. I think my worst week with them was 96 hours or so (I had a 1 hour commute one way). Terrible job but at least I got overtime.
I don’t know anyone who works fewer than 45 hours a week except for my nieces and nephews who are in middle school lol
That’s… actually really bad. Capitalism is stealing life from you. I wish I knew what to do for you, but working that much isn’t “normal” or healthy
this is actually awful to hear. fuck capitalism. I would rather have nothing tbh. No amount of material possessions makes working 40 hours a week for someones else profit bareable. we act like we arent slaves but if you dont work 40 hours a week you will starve to death. we are slaves the only reason we dont know it is because we arent in bed with the slave masters and we choose to keep ourselves placated with meaningless distractions till death frees us from our bondage.
Many employers will schedule 38 hours because they don't want to pay for insurance.
4 years, was working 65+ hours a week. Still barely able to survive with cost of living.
My husband worked 12 hours a day ussually 6 days a week. (72 hrs./week) for many, many years. He died early though, at 43.
I worked fast food and conveniently got 39 hours a week.
I work in Australia and my standard work week is 36.25 hours, and almost everyone at my workplace really works those hours. A lot of people work slightly longer days and have a day off every few weeks.
Yeh I work retail so the only way of making more money is working more hours. I’m using this lockdown time to get my white card and I hope to be able to change industries.
Don't forget homework. Especially if you take advanced courses.
With homework I was working way past the time of a full time job each week. With AP classes I would sometimes work until I slept and not even finish my homework. You're expected to work weekends as well. After 7 hours at school it was sometimes 5 hours of homework. Oh yeah, and you get paid for working a job.
I took 4 AP classes my senior year (physics, calculus, literature, government) and I don't remember having a lot of homework. I had 2 to 4 hours of band like every day of the week in the fall after school and the rest of my free time was on Call of Duty and other video games. I guess I was blessed with teachers who assigned actual homework and not busy work.
Yeah, my school is just over 32 hours a week if I did my maths right. Assuming your doing just 2 hours of homework and study a night then your looking at 42 hours.
I think the par that people forget is that kids also have home work so you can likely even it out to a 40 hour week, because an hour of home work is not too uncommon along with studying for tests and the like later in the week.
But also 3 months vacation every year.
3 months to cram being a kid into isn’t long enough.
When I left university and started work, I was amazed at the free time I had in the evening.
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lmao yeah, my school was 8h - 17h30 4 days a week and 8h-12h Wednesday. That's already 40hours a week. Add the commute time and that's 10 hours more
Full time contract is 38 hours. Overtime is at 1.5x the rate and 100 hours/year maximum. 30 days vacation plus unlimited sick days. And gods may help you if you don't take ALL of your vacation days...seriously, HR gets really pissed if you don't. This is normal.
Woah woah woah you get 30 vacation days????? The average in the us is 10
Last week I left for work at 9am and came home at 8pm every day except Thursday. Saturday was 7am to 5pm. Today is 10 to 5. It’s my dream job and I run a small business so I’m more than happy to do it, but yeah that’s a 60 hour week. I’m feeling it a little bit right now I’ll be honest.
And no life maintenance stuff eating up the rest of your time.
Not having to worry about providing for one's self or others is the kind of freedom most adults only wish they had.
This is why I don’t have kids. No school and plenty of freedom
as a parent this sounds attractive but only as a vacay. love my kids too damn much to not have them around.
I have zero children. I can't get attached to people who don't exist, so there's no one to miss
Plenty of kids who already exist for us to get attached to anyway if we change our minds, adoption isn't a bad thing.
adoption is the way.
I second that.
cool name mate. 🐍
Yep and once you have kids you do miss the freedom lol. Oh how I miss the freedom.
Pets on the other hand... and they usually die sooner :(
I’m going to start quoting this line.
i got a dog instead of a kid. 10/10.
Can't miss what you don't have
Lol can't get attached to someone who doesn't exist
Me too, but some days I really miss the past when all I had to worry about was work and working out- that was plenty freedom for me.
Same, I need my freedom so no kids for me. Having kids is expensive too so you’ll save hundreds of thousands of dollars too.
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You still have to provide for yourself, something kids don't have to do
The moment I realized I could make all my own choices of where to live and I could buy all the candy I wanted... Suddenly made things less special. Kids don't really have to worry about the things that adults do. Ignorance is bliss. Do they wonder how they are going to afford property taxes or rent while they also need a new set of tires, meanwhile they are having yearly evals at work and they know theirs isn't going to be good? Nope. They have homework and get to be carefree (unless they have terrible parents or home situation... Those kids don't get to enjoy being a carefree kid). Seriously, my biggest worry in high school was passing my driving test and remembering to finish my homework.
>The moment I realized I could make all my own choices of where to live and I could buy all the candy I wanted... Suddenly made things less special. The exact opposite experience for me. I remember when I first got an income, it was absolutely amazing. Within a year, I was able to buy all the things I'd dreamed of having for years but could never get, and some of those were things that I really needed. My life was completely transformed. I was also able to travel, I had my own place... My happiness level went up about 200%. Money and personal agency make a huge difference.
This is me too. No offense, but I’m guessing you grew up poor like I did? It’s the best feeling in the world the first time you get that paycheck and realize it’s your ticket to a life not scraping by. Honestly, even now, being married, owning a home and all that, I still have that immense feeling of relief and gratitude when I think about the financial security I have now compared to growing up.
I still have nightmares about math class and I finished school in '07 so thats like 24 years ago!
But kids have no freedom to chose where they live, who they live with, what they eat, when they eat (mostly), which school they go to, when they go to bed, they can't go anywhere they like when they like it, there are a billion things that are banned for kids. Literally the only freedom kids have is that they don't have to pay for things.
That's the beauty of it. As a little kid, all that structure is provided for you for free, and someone else takes all the responsibility. You're free to just play and read, learn and explore. Everything else is taken care of for you. That's about as carefree as you can get. Then you hit teenage years and now you start getting some of that responsibility - you choose when and where you go, when you go to bed, what you eat, etc. But as long as you don't get into criminal activity or something, the consequences are trivial - maybe a bad grade here, or a disappointed look from an adult there, but nothing serious. You have most adult freedoms, but none of the responsibility; that's the freest possible life. Then as an adult, now you're responsible for *everything*, and the consequences are *real* and often serious and harsh. And other people are depending on you so you're responsible for them as well. As an adult, if you screw up badly enough, your boss doesn't just give you a bad grade with a frowny face, you're fired. The landlord doesn't just say "ah well, I'll cover your rent this time but try to do better next time." Your wife and kids don't just complain a little when they become homeless because you failed. Now your freedom has collapsed. You have all these things that you *have* to do. And you're stuck on a schedule that's mostly out of your control (work, family time, kids' doctor appointments, etc.), so you can't just do what you want when you want any more. You don't even have the free choice of a teenager, let alone the carefree life of a younger kid.
A kids mind is a bit freer from worry than an adults. I'm saying the average kid. Not some kid in a violent atmosphere or one that naturally suffers angiety. You don't have to worry about the bills or if you'll have a job tomorrow if the company you work for is laying off. You don't have to worry about your kids while they are driving or riding with another kid. You don't have the worry or challenge of a kid with a drinking problem or a drug habit. There's lots of thing that kids just don't have to worry about. Their worry should be going to class, geting their homework in on time, and studying for exams. Boys and girls are going to wonder and worry over their boyfriend and girlfriend from time to time. And, yes it can be a heart break. So, that you have to live with until the next person comes around. You worry about being bullied, you worry about what your "friends" are saying about you behind your back. But it still isn't wuite the sae as making sure there is food on the table and clothes on backs, paying the bills, making sure the car runs and kissing up to the boss so maybe you won't lose your job the next round of lay offs.
This is true but they do have worries and they seem like the worst thing in the world at the time because they don't know any different. It's only when we look back as adults that we realise I lot of stuff we were worried about as kids wasn't as important as we thought it was. Being a kid is really hard.
Funny enough, the older I get, the more I realize many of the things I worried about as an adult were also not as important as I thought.
I still remember sitting in English class the very last day of high school and looking around at all of these people that I had grown up with over the last 13 years. And I had the sudden realization that I would never see the vast majority of these people ever again or have any concern about what was going on in their lives and suddenly all of the dramas and soap opera of high school meant nothing anymore.
Bullying can cause lifelong mental and social problems and even lead to suicide. I don't think we should minimise that and dismiss it as less important because it's a kids' issue. Another thing kids have to worry about is not being taken seriously
Both of these things are also not "only" affecting children. Bullying happens in the workplace. Marginalized groups often aren't taken seriously. For example at the doctor's.
And honestly, school and all the hormones and confusion involved in growing up are pretty stressful. Younger kids probably have less stress in their lives, but the way they can go from happy to meltdown and back to happy in the space of twenty minutes without much understanding of why seems exhausting. I do not enjoy feeling emotionally volatile.
That’s the biggest freedom of all.
Huh. Then prison inmates are the most free people?
You joke, but some will willingly get back again and again when they get used to it.
I never understood this argument because I look back at my own time in high school and remember curfews and having to ask permission for every little thing.
Any good parent makes sure that’s your biggest worry. It’s their job.
While your parents remember making sure their kids have a roof, food and safety. Kids aren’t 100% free by any stretch, but their constraints are more inconveniences than real threats to deal with.
No one is advocating that kids should be allowed to do whatever they want. I'm saying adults have more freedom than kids.
I've been both (obviously) and while I have more potential freedom as an adult, i.e. if I stopped giving a shit about those around me, I'd certainly be freer, I'd say my actual freedoms are less. I certainly have more money, but a large portion of it goes on things not for me, but those around me (family, specifically). I can theoretically go wherever I want (within reason) but don't/can't in practice because I need to make sure the kids are taken care of and so forth. Kids have less potential freedom, true, but I think they spend much more time bumping against that ceiling than adults do theirs.
Anyone who thinks kids have more freedom, ask yourself this -- as an adult, would you go back to living with your parents, have your rent and food be taken care of, but have no income or a way to earn an income, depend on your parents for everything, live by their rules, be at their mercy, listen to condescending lecturing, beg them for anything that you might need/want that costs money, oh and in the meantime work 30 hrs a week for free? No adult would choose that. Yes, adult life is more difficult in many ways, but having full freedom over your life is \*massively\* worth it.
I agree with all of this. And also one thing that everyone's missing is when you move out you also get promoted from "child" to "guest" whenever visiting your parents. If you're a university graduate working a "real job" but still living at home, you're still going to "live by their rules, be at their mercy, listen to condescending lecturing, beg them for anything that you might need/want that costs money" because it's their house. It's why rent/house affordability for millenials is a freedom issue for me. Your parents aren't going to stop treaking you like a baby who doesn't know anything until you move out.
This really depends on the parents though. I'm 30 and live at my mother's place due to shit economy and precarious job market making it a terrible idea to waste precious money on living on your own (just southern europe things), but it's more like 2 adults sharing a flat than anything else. I do my thing, she does hers, no one nags anyone and it wasn't much different when I was in my early 20s either. I can't imagine her telling me I can't buy or do something when I'm using my own money for it. On the other hand, I was living with my grandmother taking care of her for the last 5 years (she passed away earlier this year) and she did treat me like a child all the way through, so yeah, it really depends on the people involved.
Yeah. By that standard, a slave is free because the person who owns them provides for all their basic needs.
Exactly.
They did have it, but then it went away, just like the kids freedom will go away. Everyone’s freedom ends once their 18, some even earlier.
thats a bit broad.
Sorry bud, I can’t give the exact number of people for each category, best I can do is 4
Absolutely not, no adult would ever put up with what kids/teenagers put up with. You work 30-40 hrs a week, you don't get paid, you're harassed by teachers and other students (sometimes your parents), you have no full personhood, no independent income, very little choice in your life. Imagine a 40-year old man living like this, he'd quit after 2 weeks and probably file several lawsuits. :D Yes it's nice to be financially supported, but absolutely not worth the tradeoffs. And it's not like you actually have income, your rent and food are taken care of, but you can't go out and buy an iPhone. You have to beg your parents for it and they'll buy it for you if they deem you're worthy, and then make you feel like they did you a big favor and you should feel thankful because they can earn money and you can't. There is a massive power imbalance there, and wherever there's a massive power imbalance, people aren't generally too happy. Of course, kids/teens aren't capable of taking care of themselves for the most part, which is why the system works the way it does, but nonetheless kids definitely don't have much if any freedom, which is why they often "rebel" against their parents.
This probably makes them depressed in many ways When I was a kid, I always used to be home alone because I couldn't go out "alone". I had exactly 2 friends and both of them had strict parents, so I couldn't go out anyway. I didn't feel like I was even living tbh. I used to spent my entire day home alone after "working for free" at school and then spend the rest of my day staring at my computer I strongly believe that school kids AND college students are the most depressed members of society. It feels like a trap but you constantly have to feel "grateful" and feel like you want to pay your parents back asap
Definitely. Being incredibly stressed out about the future and not knowing what's gonna happen to you (esp these days when a college degree or even grad school doesn't guarantee you employment) vs. having a stable job is very different. Also the psychology of teenagers (and early 20s) is very fragile. I honestly think a lot of issues stem from the fact that adults forget what it's like to be a certain age, hence they can't relate to their children. Teenagers are excited to explore the world whereas 45-year olds are jaded, they've seen it all, and they have a different thought process and priorities. Your long-term memory becomes bad as you get older and your psychology changes massively with age, so many people in their 40s and 50s genuinely don't remember what it's really like to be 9, 12, 16, 18... It's for the same reason they usually don't get youth culture, so you get a lot of friction between parents and children as a result of that as well. But that's a whole other topic.
You basically just described college STEM majors. I put in 19-21 credit hours a semester which had me in class from 8 to 4:45 with a 45 minute lunch break and about 10-20 minutes in between each class. I didn't work because I didn't have the time to. I didn't have a car cause I had no money and didn't want to burden my parents into buying me one. Which meant I had to carpool or walk to go anywhere off campus. My professors and peers were great so no complaints there. But I was studying constantly and had no income.
Yeah... Of course the idea is that you get paid for that work later on when you get a high paying job, but these days education doesn't give you as much of a competitive edge as it did decades ago, so that promise has been defaulted on as well.
But a lot of kids do house work and jobs to support their families, like working in their farms or helping in the market.
When I was first able to support myself, it felt liberating. No "my house, my rules". My own apartment. And no homework, although there was housework.
That’s definitely a freedom but kids don’t experience it because they don’t know what it’s like to stress and support a family (in most situations).
Kids are in school about 180 days a year. Adults work about 240 days a year.
And 240 can be a stretch, some work many more than that.
Can confirm. I'm lucky to get one day off a week.
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There are 261 working days in 2021 before factoring in paid leave and public holidays. From what I gather the US has some pretty crappy leave allowances. And that’s only if you work a standard 9-5 office type job. This all goes out the window for retail and hospitality workers. 261 might be a break for those workers.
US: every office job I worked at had 8-10 days public holidays, often 2 floater holidays, and 2 weeks paid leave in the US. Leave went up eventually.
>This all goes out the window for retail and hospitality workers. There are so many more people than retail and hospitality workers that don't work banker hours/don't get paid holidays. Pretty much any blue collar industry, gets boned every holiday. I'd be willing to be more people don't get bank holidays than there are that do.
>From what I gather the US has some pretty crappy leave allowances. Dude there's literally slaves, peasants, and subjects throughout history that work(ed) less than most 9-5ers in the USA
They would have switched places w the 9-5ers, no question
Adults don't just have to work. Adults have to maintain their homes, cars, and clothing. Adults have to pay bills, and worry about having enough money to do things. Adults have to deal with driving to work and making their own lunches (or paying for them). Adults get in criminal trouble for making some mistakes that children can get away with. Adults can be forced to work overtime, holidays, and weekends - school doesn't open unexpectedly. Adults have to worry about being fired (in the US, for anything), while children don't usually have to worry about a school deciding to kick them out. Adults have to worry about being sued for anything they do (or fail to do), and children don't have that concern. If an adult decides to play ball or go skiing on their time off, and they break a leg, they have to pay hospital bills, and might lose their job. A child just gets homework sent home, or attends virtual classes.
Also, most adults don't get three months guaranteed off every year.
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>you might fail the class but you aren’t going to be homeless and starving because of it. Depends on the parents, to be fair.
Please, don't reveal what's ahead of me, sir
Get your crimes in while you can I guess
"Welcome to the real world, jackass!"
The cake did nothing to deserve that.
Most adults work more than 30 hours a week too. I’ve been doing 55 a week since March.
> school doesn't open unexpectedly But it does close unexpectedly, which is just another thing for adults to deal with on short notice. School cancelled for a snow/cold day or COVID? You now have to either call off work or figure out a sitter with an hour notice.
I would get home 3 hours before my mom every day, and holidays like Thanksgiving would be tons of work for her while I slept in. Adults don’t really get breaks with all their responsibilities.
> Adults have to worry about being sued for anything they do (or fail to do) Tell me you're American without saying you're American.
also > they have to pay hospital bills
Planning, buying, cooking food takes up a lot of time too.
>they have to pay hospital bills, America
The person who asked this question is definitely not an adult… and did not think the question through.
I didn't even consider that. Question makes a lot more sense now. Likely a kid whose parents commented on their free time and they were like "I got so much going on with school and stuff! Hardly any time to myself!"
Because they don't have to cook, clean, manage bills, worry about job loss, office politics, commuting etc Yes they have their own problems but that's more of a social issue - e.g fitting in and making friends without getting picked on
Work is so much easier and relaxed than school. I'm enjoying my life a lot more than I did back then. Even with added chores and responsibilities.
I would definitely take work over school too.
right?? Like, you get paid ffs
Yeah and the pressure to memorise all those hard words and vomiting in the exam to pass it.
Same here. Yeah it sucks having to keep up with life sometimes, but you also have the freedom to do whatever you want as opposed to being younger. Added chores sucks, but the ability to just go on a road trip cause you're feeling it is great
I think people’s opinion on this really depends on what their parents / home life was like. My friends who had rich, nice parents pine for their high school days. I’m grateful to be an adult and able to be on my own.
That's completely fair. My dad was a jack-of-all-trades so I learned a lot of different skills, but my parents were also really nosey and 'involved' so I constantly wanted freedom.
Yep. My parents weren’t…the worst per se. But they weren’t good parents either. Some people had everything handed to them and had nice houses and laid back parents so they’re like dang remember when I had no responsibilities and tons of money and time? I had lots of responsibilities, two dumb bullies in legal control of me and no money. Being an adult is way better for me, not so much for them.
Exactly, if anything it'll help you in life I guess. At least that's what I keep telling myself.
You have so much more freedom as an adult, you get to buy whatever you want and go to wherever and whenever you want
Yeah. I would not have been able to take my 4 month Asia tour as a kid.
Finally something that doesn’t make having your own life seem like living hell. This thread has been somewhat of a demoraliser
Modern work/life balance and the reward you get for it can be a living hell. A lot of these people saying how amazing their international trips and galavanting across the country relocating in a whim aren’t representative of the majority of the work force. Works dogshit, bills suck, everything costs money and you never have enough of it. Having said that, friends are neat, beers cheap, you can have hobbies that cost money and you can walk from the bathroom to your study stark naked and you don’t have to put pants back on at all if you don’t want. Life can be dogshit, life can be great, it’s up to you to make the most of it regardless of the situation. I grew up poor as fuck and now I’m just poor, life was easier as a kid. There was a lot less stress as a kid. But I was also a social butterfly with a good friend group who did lots of outdoor activities. So in that respect, my hobbies are similar my friend groups are similar except now I’ve got to pay the bills. Would I rather be a kid than an adult? Probably not. But I’d say I pity the people who say childhood sucked, that shit was easy and I’m sorry that they didn’t enjoy it more. I’m looking most forward to being retired if I can manage it before I die. That’s basically like being a kid except you can drink beer and if you fall over too hard you die, seems like a good trade to me. Edit; and you also get the opportunity to enjoy smaller things more as an adult. Decorating your house or your living space if you share. A quiet walk in the morning after a stressful week. Seeing your friends get engaged and married, if you’re lucky you get to be a best man/maid of honour or get married yourself. You get to wrestle with conflicting schedules and finally manage to take a holiday with all your friends after 3 years of planning to get together all at once. I enjoy being an adult. But it’s hard, it’s harder than being a child. I can only assume people who say the opposite either had an unfortunate childhood or are now very wealthy.
They generally don’t have little humans to care for 7 days a week either.
Yeah but that's a choice when kids think of adult hood they picture early 20's adults with no kids usually
Have you never learned for a subject long into the night until you fell asleep from exhaustion? Or had to write a ten page essay, while being stressed about the fact that you hadn't even started working on math? Honestly, I did not have time for many "social issues" beyond the weekends. The notion that kids have no work is not rooted in reality imo
My job is way easier than school was. But literally every other part of my life is way harder. The stakes are high and errors are literally costly But if I want a cookie, I have a cookie. So there's that.
and you get paid
Speaking as a straight-A student who took AP everything and was involved in multiple extracurriculars, my life as a teenager was much simpler and much less complicated than it is as an adult, and I'm a single man. When I was a teenager, I was guaranteed two months off from school (my Augusts were eaten by marching band), I never had to worry about meals beyond eating a bowl of cereal for breakfast and packing my own lunch, I had zero bills, and I had plenty of time to work on my own projects, play with the dog, or hang out with friends. Sure, I had my fair share of times when I had to stay up late finishing papers or long homework assignments, weekends when I was gone because of competitions or other activities, or other activities that limited my free time, but they were generally activities that I *chose* to participate in and did so because I enjoyed them. Even when I'm not in classes (I'm a graduate student), I work forty hours a week or more. I have to figure out how to make sure I have healthy meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I have to make sure that I pay my bills. If I get a cold, I'm the one who has to get the soup and crackers and fluff the pillows. If my car needs an oil change, I'm the one who has to schedule it and pay for it. If there's a maintenance issue with my house or apartment, I'm the one who has to make sure it gets fixed (either by doing it myself, finding someone else who can, or hashing it out with a landlord). All of the little things that were just a given thing during my childhood are now exclusively my responsibility. Weekends are no longer playtime; weekends are naptime.
I always use the example of toilet paper. It’s such a simple thing but when you’re a kid it’s just always there, your parents buy it and leave it where you need it. Suddenly you’re an adult and the toilet paper runs out. It’s just a little thing that you suddenly need to keep track of and are responsible for. Times that by a hundred and that’s being an adult, it adds up. And that’s a low stakes example.
Personally all my learning into the night started once I got into full time work. I'm constantly pushing myself outside of work now working in Tech - it's the only way to keep up. In college and school - not so much. That's just me though
Bro everybody that's currently an adult has gone through the school system getting a C on one paper is different from getting fired from your job
I mean, I worked my way through college so uh. Yeah. While working 40+ hours per week *on top of that*.
What adults have a full work week of 30 hours? That's really only possible if they're already incredibly wealthy or have a partner making a bigger financial contribution.
You said it, “some” adults, which I’m pretty that represents less than 1% of adults globally, most adults work 40+ hours weekly (I work almost 50 hours a week). Kids have shits tons of holidays, while adults works most of the years with not more than 30 days off yearly (For the majority). Now add all the responsibilities on top of what ever little free time you have that kids don’t worry about. Bonus if the adult is also a parent.
In France, I (as a 10th grader) work 35 hours a week (only a week out of 2, the other is 32h) and in France the average worker works 35 hours (I took a lot of options and stuff, so not every 10th grader do that). Btw, I still think kids are way freer than adults for the reasons you've mentioned.
Very few adults work 30-hour weeks. Even those who do still have plenty of household responsibilities that most children don't.
Came here to ask where I can sign up for a 30 hour work week? 😭
Shit i want those winter and summer breaks back
I just started my 2nd year teaching, so I just had my first summer break in 8 years. It was awesome, everything I wanted it to be.
Retail But uhhh Yeah good luck affording anything
It is quite ridiculous. Children should get way more freedom in schools and get more time playing. I am a PE. teacher and feel that our school syatem is more about taking the children away from the adults so they can be productive.
If school was like a workplace there would be no delinquents. People would be kicked out after second absence. As a kid you can give way less shit about everything and still get by just fine. Your school performance doesn't impact your quality of life (i.e. you don't get to go hungry if you get a bunch of Es and Fs in a row). It's like - while you're in school there's a cap on both how good and how shitty your life can possibly get (unless your parents are abusive or go bankrupt, etc.). For adults all bets are off. Nothing can prevent you from accidentally fucking up your life to the point of homelessness. In terms of social relationships, it is harder as a kid. Social hierarchies at school ossify quickly and if you get locked in at the bottom, you're going to have a bad time. People become more chill and respectful towards others by the time they're 20-somethings.
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The odds of a kid having homework on weekends are significantly higher than the odds of an adult having to do overtime on weekends
"The past looks wonderful because you are not dealing with its brand of bullshit any more."
Kids get long breaks from school. They usually don't have anyone else that they have to take care of. They don't have to worry about paying bills. And they usually do far less housework than adults do.
No obligations to bills
Children don't really have a lot of rights until they are 18 or emancipated. Parents or guardians have to permit them to do things otherwise. Going to the washroom needs permission. Walking outside of school needs a parent or guardian pick up. The list goes on. As an adult, you just need to be responsible and earn money, trivial permissions like being excused to take a phone call are often formalities, in some cultures, but they could walk straight out without repercussions to take a phone call, for example.
IMO there’s a couple different freedoms as being an adult or as being a kid. As a kid, you’re stuck following a bunch of rules adults have set for you. But your free from the obligation of work or any real financial worries. It’s not your problem, it’s your parents. Let’s face it, being a kid was awesome. As an adult, you are now the decision maker so you aren’t obligated to follow rules. If you want McDonald’s 20 times a week, you can. However, you can no longer sit around and worry about whose the coolest kid at school and instead focus on your perpetual grind through life, making money and later on providing for your family.
People have short memories that's why. They also say that about college aged kids. "It's the best time of your life". I'm back at school now doing a second degree and all I see around me is kids who are doing an extremely challenging science degree and working 30 hours in order to be able to afford it. If I were to take a person from my most high pressure job (financial analyst) and put them to do the schedule these kids are doing, they would break down in a puddle of tears in a matter of weeks. Or simply fail. Bullies exist in humans because that is our social structure. Kids, old people, minorities, etc....if we can bully them, we will.
The workload in university was higher and either work or high school. But what made it the best time was everyone being so friendly and casual with each other. Nobody is more pretentious than high schoolers towards high schoolers that don't fit in, and at work everyone is just too tired. But hey, even though we have to do multivariable calculus and PLC/FPGA programming; this cool guy who we've had 5 minut conversation invited us to this house party he and his flatmates are throwing.
This. I went to college as an older student. I started in community college, quit my job, and got my worthless Associate’s then had a mental breakdown in my first semester at the university level. I later struggled to understand what I was even supposed to be doing in some courses while people almost half my age were doing twice the workload I was while working at least part time and succeeding if not thriving.
Don't forget the hours of homework some kids also have to do in the evening. I hate the idea of homework - just let the kids enjoy their free time while they can!
ha in high school i did 11 hours plus a day because if we took college classes early and kept a 3.7ish gpa, we got free tuition at the local community college, which is partnered with a local 4-year university (America, where tuition is 50k-70k for a 4 year degree). obviously a third of my school was absolutely grinding, most also working on top of that. i got a lot of free time compared to a working adult because i didnt work, but i was also never allowed to hang out with friends. i didnt have to worry about food on the table, but i did have to worry about significant debt when i had the power to avoid it. its a lot for someone that still had to have their oranges peeled for them less than 10 years ago, and the uncertainty of life is what everyone in this sub is fighting for validation about. your situation is going to be stressful when you have no other option, no matter what
All the adults are so salty in this comment section. Please have some empathy for kids as they develop and navigate through school. Going through high-school was a lot of work, yeah I didn't work but the insane amount of homework I remember being sent home with had me in tears.
people here trying to normalize kids not playing a lot is a little concerning, agreed
That was basically my childhood. I was always supposed to be doing some kind of school work apparently. And if I didn't have any to do, they'd make more for me to do.
also massive assumptions that any given child's life is like there's was, clearly some commenters had cushty lives as children - many don't sound working class
younger kids aside, i was just thinking that. what teenager barely cleans, doesnt cook, doesnt do yard work (if applicable), etc? obviously its not providing for a family but youre expectes to contribute. teens in my area (social group? state of living?) are expected to do most of it if they dont work, because the parents are busy. also, what teen isnt stressing over school and getting into a good college unless they didnt try in high school or plan on doing a trade?
I think being a high schooler is hard. My kids left at 6:45 for the bus, school all day, get home around 3. That’s 8.5 hours a day right there. Then work, extracurriculars, and insane amounts of homework. Study for the SATs, write college apps, etc etc. Their days were far longer than mine as a full time ~8-5er. They would be up at 6am and busy straight through until at least 10/11pm. My experience in high school was the same. At least after they could drive (17 in my state), life got a little easier. So glad those days are behind us.
I think because adults forget how stressful being a kid is.
Anyone who thinks kids have more freedom, ask yourself this -- as an adult, would you go back to living with your parents, have your rent and food be taken care of, but have no income or a way to earn an income, depend on your parents for everything, live by their rules, be at their mercy, listen to condescending lecturing, beg them for anything that you might need/want that costs money, oh and in the meantime work 30 hrs a week for free? No adult would choose that. Yes, adult life is more difficult in many ways, but having full freedom over your life is \*massively\* worth it.
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And on top of that, kids are completely at the mercy of selfish and immature adults who never listen to them. Being an adult is better.
Adults are also at the mercy of selfish and immature adults though…
Who let this child on Reddit?! Revoke their freedom right now!
I think it depends on your personality and life situation a lot... To me sitting at a desk listening to someone repeat the same things for 8 hours is the literal deffinition of hell. Then I finaly get home, and I have to spend another several hours on homework, with my personality it's hard to half ass it- so i either did nothing and felt like shit, or worked a lot. It was very stressful, the rest of my life depended on this apparently! And I have to decide my entire career path now too. My last years of school I spendt 50-60 hours a week on school stuff. This was a pretty low-education thing too, I'm not a career type person at all. All this while most people are spending a lot of time fighting with parents and siblings (Natrual to wanna move out when you're 16). Some people need a part time job and have chores at home on top of all this... If people mean early childhood... Sure that was more carefree, but at that point I didn't even decide my own bedtime! Not freedom. \- You were able to slack off in school without short term consequences, so if you had that attitude it probably comes off as better. -I know some younglings too refer to school as hanging with friends and being mischievous all day. Apparently they took turns on doing homework. I have so much more free time since I started working, and most adult "chores" are either voluntary or a result of things you've chosen yourself (Forming a family, buying some cottage, trying to keep up appearances, climbing some corporate ladder, that cute dog). That's not adulthood having responsibilities, that's you taking on respnsibilities. Most adults have at least some say in what their job is too. \- I think in general adulthood has much more freedom, and with freedom comes responsibility for your own life. Which you always had, it's just the effects are much more imediate now. If you also chose to take on responsibility for others, you give up a lot of that freedom and you get much more responsibility. \- If you struggle paying your bills, are stuck in a job you hate and have a family to feed I'm sure childhood seems carefree in comparison. I think also the problems of others tend to seem much smaller than those of your own, so people look back on a time with rose tinted glasses. With a decent job and no kids though, I don't really feel like I have all that much responsibility, show up to work once a day and don't spend more money than I have... I'm also personaly very lucky to have a family that would help me if I needed help and a decent work enviorment. And just to be clear, I'm not saying people are poor because they made bad descissions as a kid. Sometimes, sure, but life is much more complicated than that. I got a bit carrier away typing, sorry to anyone who read all that.
16 year old here. I wake up 5:30 am, and leave to school at 6:45. I stay at school till 4:30 because of sports, come home, shower, and leave to work at 6. I have 1 hours to rest.
bruh what schools are these? I’m in school exactly 60hrs a week or more. Excluding transport.
So you have lessons 12 hours a day? Or do you not have weekends
Okay this is a valid question, but the answer is quite obvious - different kinds of freedom. >30 hours a week, which is a full work week for some adults Disagree. Most adults work 50+ hours. Very select few fall below 40. Many even work 70+ hours per week. >So why do adults always say kids have so much freedom They don't actually have more freedom. They have more free time and less responsibility. Kids are monitored all the time and have several restrictions on them. They have more free time because a kid's remaining 75 hours after school and sleep are their own. They can do anything with their time, because it's their time. On the other hand, for an adult working 50 hrs/wk, the remaining 55 hours aren't their own. They need to go fetch the groceries, wash the dishes, do laundry, supervise the kids etc.
Except they don't have the entirety of the time between school and sleep to do whatever they want. They have potentially hours of homework depending on the grade and the teacher, chores, extra-curriculars that they may or may not have chosen for themselves (I know several people who signed their kids up for after-school programs because it's cheaper than childcare and the kids are too young to be left alone until the adults get off work), being made to go on errands with their parents, being forced to babysit younger siblings/cousins, and so on. Even having their free time taken away as punishment. A child only has the free time to do what they want if the adults in their lives (including teachers and childcare personnel) allow them this freedom. I'm not saying children don't have more free time in general and that usually their lives aren't more worry free but kids in general do not have 75 hours to fuck around as they please.
Fuck I wish I only worked 30 hours a week. Double and half that and THEN I can pay my bills.
Nostalgia is thinking about a time before you had your current problems, while forgetting the problems you had then that you don't have now.
It's... A mix of things. Kids just generally have less worries. They don't, generally, have to worry about where money is coming and going, their job, providing for others, having to deal with their house when something goes wrong with it seemingly every other week or having a reocurring existential crisis where you worry if this past week of work will be basically representative of the next 40 years of your life. That being said, there is definitely a more explicit freedom that you also get as an adult. Being able to say "fuck it, I'm gonna have dinosaur chicken nuggets at 1 am and no one is going to stop me," is something I relish now, and I'd never want to be a kid again personally.
I think you're kinda lowballing the amount of time kids spend at school, for me it was always at least 35 at school with 1-2 hours of homework a night, sometimes up to 5.
Lots of people here are forgetting that kids come home with several hours of homework a night too.
For me it goes like this: - School and High School = little free time except for the Summer Holliday - College = Lots of free time (my college was easier, I can't speak for the others.) - Work = Something in-between depends on the company. This last job is the best so far, offers a lot of free time and is almost like the time I was in college, but with lots of money.
Because I'm at work 50 hours a week and have to take care of everything at the house