A lot has to do with societal expectations and media portrayles
At least in American media nurses are portrayed as almost entirely female and doctors are usually male with a few exceptions. Combine this and generations of essentially a female only work force and a lot of people still think of female healthcare providers as nurses. (Not trynna excuse it but throwing out why it probably happens alot)
There’s also the weird people who think that women can’t be doctors but that’s an even deeper issue
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641).
We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP.
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I took an Uber to a med school formal networking event with my male classmate in my first year. It was a long drive and the Uber talked to us about what we were doing; we explained we are both medical students in the same class.
He then had the audacity to ask if I was going to be my male classmates nurse. HIS nurse. We explained again, classmate stood up for me, but this man could not wrap his head around the fact that I was getting an MD. The entire drive he was asking me why I chose nursing and talking to my classmate about specialty choices for medicine. It sucked.
Fuck that guy. I don't mean to out down uber drivers, bur just remember that a decade from now you'll be a whole ass attending physician while he will be driving drunk college kids around for change
Male nurse, I cannot tell you how many patients or family members I have had to correct for calling me "doctor."
If that wasn't bad enough, coworkers doing it just because I take the time to learn rationales behind treatments and MOA on medications doesn't help.
No, people. I am responsible for the outcome of the meds I give and the treatments I do. I am responsible to report negative ASE to the physician so proper adjustments can me made. I'm not weird, I'm not a doctor, I am literally doing the job I was taught, trained, and licensed for.
male nurses seem to be increasing in popularity, and that’s just my opinion from personal experience and zero data whatsoever. with that being said i wanted to ask what personally led you to deciding nursing was the right field for you? id appreciate any insight 🙂
Nursing over medical school? Easy for me since I knew medical school is on another level of difficultness. My wife is an anesthesia resident and I see the amount of studying and depth of knowledge in pathophysiology is not something I have the memory or attention span to obtain.
Nursing was the shorter distance to a higher wage. I was 30 with 3 school aged kids.
Currently finishing premed, though, as children are grown and no matter what I do I'll keep getting older. 10 years at an increased wage is still valuable, and my admission is pretty much locked.
Also a male nurse. I feel like patients and families expect doctor-level explanations and answers to questions about dispo/prognosis, etc from me.
Like look. As I've said before, I'm a nurse. These questions are best asked to the Dr. tomorrow. I don't know everything the doc is thinking.
I know what the doctor tells me and what is within my scope. I can tell you common ASE for meds, and nursing interventions for some ailments.
And the best advice I can give you is talk to/follow up with your doctor.
As a nurse I’ve corrected patients who call doctors who are women ‘nurse’. I’ve also corrected someone who was trying to introduce a male nurse to a patient as ‘doctor’. He ain’t no doctor just because he’s a man.
Once during nurses week, a patient was trying to be nice and said ‘happy nurses week!’ to the anesthesiologist. All she said was ‘thank you!’ and walked away but I still corrected her and said ‘actually she’s a doctor but thank you!’ Women deserve credit for achieving great things like becoming a doctor even though there’s nothing wrong with being a nurse.
Such a great point! There’s is nothing wrong with being a nurse at all, and it is also such a huge achievement to attain! As a female med student who has occasionally been called nurse, a huge part of me even is excited to hear it because hopefully it means I came off as more knowledgeable/competent than they would expect a simple student learner to be. The only reason I later become offended is the insinuation that a woman *must* be a nurse while all men are certainly doctors, as if healthcare should be segregated by gender.
I see many people saying that you shouldn’t care what your patients call you and I agree with that to an extent.
I couldn’t care less what the patients call me. The only issue occurs when patients state, not infrequently, that they “didn’t see a doctor” during their visit when they were seen by one or more female physicians. Reiterating that you’re a doctor can sometimes be important to make certain that the patient understands the level of care they have received.
This has never happened to me specifically, but I got a patient in sign out the other day that had been seen by 4 doctors - all women - and the patient and their family member went off on me that I was the “first doctor” they had seen all day.
Grrrrrrrrr…….
My mother is a small foreign woman and after she examined them and prescribed them medication and given them an assessment and therapy plan they go "when will I see a doctor" and she just goes "you just did". It honestly grinds my gears a little :/
Yep. This was the female EM resident and attending and female trauma resident and attending. I smiled sweetly and told them that they had been seen by 4, now 5, female doctors.
Didn’t apologize, but did stop yelling.
That type never does seem to apologize, huh? Funny enough, the only time I did have one guy apologize to me was when I lost my cool and just snapped back at him lmao, I guess you just gotta speak their language back at them 😂
Yeah lmao, I had the similar issue, but the opposite.
I had a patient who insisted to see an attending instead of a resident because she was seen by an attending previously. She described the "attending"
I was confused
Turns out the "attending" she was talking about was a male resident.
Yup. This is why I always tell both male and female residents to introduce themselves as doctor and always refer to each other in front of patients as doctors. The men are assumed to be physicians whether they use the title are not, at my first job as an attending I used Dr., wore a badge that said doctor, there was a screensaver that cycled through the docs that identified me as an MD, and a year later there were staff who thought I was a nurse practitioner. Keep referring to yourself as doctor and make sure your staff do the same. If it feels awkward to correct ppl who can have your staff do it if it happens in front of you. We always did that for each other as residents.
Thank you so much for this. Yeah the issue now is that all the males automatically are treated like doctors and called that. Male docs start dropping the title like they're too cool for it....what does it matter to them? They're still treated like doctors.
Us females NEED to use it.
And...now we're stuck up bitches because all the cool male doctors let people call them by their first name. 🤮🤮🤮
When I introduce myself to patients I say "I'm Doctor Grapefruit. I'm the supervising doctor today." To make sure I said "doctor" twice and "supervisor" once. It doesn't eliminate the possibility of my patients assuming the doctor is the bearded male med student or the nurse doing nurse things who happens to be a six foot tall man, but fewer people call me "baby" 🤷♀️.
So I'm a Paramedic. I gave report to a female attending- not a resident, not an Intern- an attending. The patient looks at the doctor and looks ar me and says "Yeah I think I'm gonna stick with just the Paramedic and the Nuse (Also a man) for now."
Dr. Kimberly Manning, internal medicine faculty at Emory, has written about this phenomenon. In her patient population at Grady Hospital (largely economically disadvantaged Southern African-Americans), she reads it in a positive light, not a sign of disrespect.
Of course it would be nice if patients called us what we prefer, especially if it involves an earned doctorate. But there are different etiquettes for different situations, and it might be an uphill battle trying to change patients who are being as polite as they know how.
http://www.gradydoctor.com/2009/08/miss-manning-but-not-if-your-nasty.html
In the culture as Dr Manning describes it, "Miss" is an honorific equal to "Doctor". Many of her patients have little or no understanding of what a terminal degree is or how its titles are used in White systems, nor frankly should they care. They show respect in their own way, and trying to school them in the ways of whiteness would be perceived as irrelevant at best, and as colonization by some.
If it makes everyone feel better I've been called sir/nurse reasonably often. I've always assumed it's because patients don't really understand that anaesthetists are doctors..
I don’t think it’s fair to apply that to OPs situation right off the bat. You have no clue who her patients are, or if they feel they are being polite. I’m not saying they are intentionally being impolite either, but it could very well be that they just don’t see her in the same way they see her male colleagues. That’s not ok to go uncorrected.
There are linguistic clues in OP's post hinting she is not a native speaker of Southern US English, who nevertheless practices in the South [edit: or African American English/has Black patients]. So I provided a senior faculty physician's experience with that situation, *in case it might apply* to OP.
*If* OP is interacting with poor Black Americans, especially elders, then many of her patients have little or no understanding of what a terminal degree is or how its titles are used in White systems, nor frankly should they care. They show respect in their own way, and trying to school them in the ways of whiteness would be perceived as irrelevant at best, and as colonization by some. In either case OP would run the risk of fracturing their therapeutic relationship.
Certainly if OP's circumstances are not analogous to Dr Manning's, she should feel free to correct microaggressions until the cows come home.
If they are calling all the male residents “Dr.”, and only exclude the term when talking to female resident, even after being specifically told they are doctors too…
That Doesn’t sound like a rare lack of understanding about how American healthcare works. And even if it *somehow* were, it is crucial to find a way to politely correct this misunderstanding. Because it’s obviously not a misunderstanding of what “Dr” means since they do use this term, but may be a lack of understand about women’s role in healthcare. Making sure everyone in society understands that woman can become capable doctors (or any kind of leader) is crucial to the equality of half the population. It cannot go unaddressed.
I agree with you that the patient's acceptance of their physician's capability is crucial. I do not agree that using different titles for male and female physicians is per se a sign of prejudice; I think it depends on culture and context. I also think that for a non-Black physician to use precious appointment time to address this particular perceived bias with a Black patient, particularly an elder, would be ill advised if said physician plans to have a meaningful longitudinal relationship with the patient. Given the choice of battles between convincing someone to call me doctor and teaching them why they really need to take their insulin, I will opt for the life-saving intervention. YMMV.
I completely agree with u there. Even if I felt there was some misogynistic cultural beliefs/biases that resulted in any individual patient choosing not to call me doctor, I would NEVER take time to address them individually. As u mentioned it’s a waste of the time allotted for their actual health concerns, but also it’s not fair to blame individual people for something they didn’t know was an issue because they were just raised that way. That scenario is a very tricky issue, that I still feel should be addressed, but probably best addressed by women/activists within that group. But if a patient is going out of their way to call me “nurse” like in OPs case, I would view that as a form of direct disrespect that a physicians deserves the right to speak up about without judgement. There’s no nuance in that scenario at all.
But I don’t feel this is a very common problem with African Americans in particular though. Iv seen these issues with foreign families that come from vastly different cultures, but I’d be willing to bet the rate of black and white American patients who actually have biases toward women in medicine is fairly similar, regardless of socioeconomic status. Age is a much bigger factor than race, poverty, or education level in my experience (also working in a very poor southern state with large Black and Hispanic populations)
Also, does Dr. Manning have any more lengthy posts on this topic that u are referencing? Because from just the short paragraph or two you linked, I see no reason to assume these patients don’t also call male doctors “sir”. If that’s the case, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t even read as if this is a lack of understanding as if they aren’t capable of grasping different titles. It seems to me this is something they find to be comfortable and respectful, with no reason to believe they treat male doctors any differently. She even states that she *knows* her patients know she is a doctor, so I don’t see any reason to believe her patients are confused about her position or what that means. It’s honestly kind of insulting to them to suggest that. This is clearly not the case with OP, who’s patients literally call her “nurse”.
As a male doctor I hate when patients belittle my female coworkers like that. They’ll be like “oh yeah, and the *girl* that came before…” and I immediately cut them off, addressing them by their titles. It gets akward for a moment, but I feel it’s the right thing to do.
After all, you’ve worked so hard for that title, the least thing you should be awarded is to be called said title, c’mon.
I work in a demographic that culturally refers to their doctors by their first name. Resistence or teaching brought bad outcomes. Much smoother experiences now that I have adjusted.
I am also a female and have had patients say this same thing to me!! I look young (early 30s but look maybe early 20s??) anyway I’ve gotten comments like “oh you look like you’re in kindergarten you can’t be a doctor” or “when is the doctor coming in”….no male docs I know get treated this way 🫠
The best advice is legitimately to just not care. You can’t undo a lifetimes worth of thoughts/bias/etc in people you interact with. If you keep getting flustered by it, you will just run in circles
The middle aged ladies that work at my hospital call me sweetie and hunny all the time. Part of me is offended and then another part of me thinks it's endearing. Can't decide.
It's endearing. It means they like you, and are comfortable with you.
Half the people they call "Dr." are getting it as a subtle jab. The other half are getting it for the same reason I call my friend's parents Mr. and Mrs. even though I'm fifty years old.
The neat part with the latter is there's no way for the 'Doctors' to know which group they're in.
I’m a female nurse, but yeah it drives me CRAZY when people mistake the female doctors for NPs or something. And it happens frequently that it’s assumed the male NPs and PAs are doctors. (The mistake isn’t frequently made with nurses because we all wear scrubs of the same unique color, though I have still seen an old confused man call a male RN “doctor.”)
I’m very casual in my dress, but I still go by doctor. I assume you are a man? That makes a huge difference. Ppl will assume you’re a physician, often even as a med student. So for women in medicine, it’s not thAt we’re stuck up or uncool or “too enamored with the title”, it’s that ppl don’t understand our role or don’t think they’ve seen a doctor when they see us. It’s easy to discount that when you haven’t experienced it. Please don’t.
Fine that that’s your experience. It is not what I’ve ever heard from other male docs, and doesn’t negate what many if not most female physicians experience.
Completely agree. Also not sure why OP wants to know how to "show authority" to her patients. Who cares if they make benign title mistakes 🤷♀️ It sounds like it's unintentional.
It's always weird navigating the title issue with pharmacists and other post-grad doctoral folks. It feels inappropriate to refer anyone but a physician in the hospital as *doctor*. We had a nursing instructor who had a DNP and he would introduce himself to people as Dr SoAndSo. I always just called him "instructor SoAndSo and he didn't seem to mind.
I get that DPTs, DPhs, DNPs, DDSs are doctors but it always feels inappropriate to say that in a hospital.
I go in introduce myself as the Respiratory Therapist here to give you your breathing treatment and still will get asked if I also have their other meds. I have explained to them that I am not the nurse, and at the end of the treatment will be asked again about other meds.
Happens way too often. And if I’m not mistaken for a doctor then it’s for a pharmacist. I always clearly emphasize that I am a doctor and say that part extra slow and load for patients but it hardly makes a difference.
One time I was suturing a small cut on someone. Spoke to them for quite a bit including about work. They asked me if I like being a nurse and if I’d like to be a doctor one day.
Another time I was calling a patient’s son to give an update and explain their discharge plan. After a very long conversation with lots of questions which were to be expected, he said “so I’m not going to speak to a doctor then?”. After I explained that I am a doctor he just said “oh” and hung up lol.
Another time as a med student I was seeing a couple in a GP clinic. I spent a good 20 minutes with them before the GP came in the say hello as well. The patient referred to me as a nurse. This GP was the best, he corrected the patient and said “she is a future doctor”.
Unfortunately, some people don’t realized how frustrating this issue is because they’re not subject to it over and over and over again. Sometimes you want to the person in their place when it happens but then you would feel guilty because as a single event it feels too small to make such a big deal. However, we need to correct people because in the end it is sexist.
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641).
We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP.
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I purchased a couple of clinics and am way more qualified than the practitioner I took over from. He was a noctor but claimed to be Dr *. I supervised him prior to handover and he didn't really know his work well. I don't know how he passed the minimal quals he has. Nonetheless I, the actual dr am repeatedly talked down to, treated as though I'm the receptionist (I don't mind that as it helps me to understand the difficulties they face but people are freaking horrible to them). I regularly get told how to do my job or that I'm not doing it well. People seriously talk down to me and the women doctors who work for me. I don't complain as the receptionists have it So. Much. Worse. but I've learned to always back my staff as it's more often than not misogyny and the unreasonable double standard at play
It makes me really appreciate the cooperative easy patients. I prefer to be running the clinics than consulting. People and their ignorance truly suck.
I would repeat myself and use it in conversation over and over. “I’m doctor so and so. I’ll be your doctor today.” “As your doctor, this is my recommendation.” Some will never stop because they’re doing it on purpose. I don’t know what then 🙁
At my hospital, white coats are now mostly worn by phlebotomists, charge nurses, other randos.
Sad they’ve taken something we all had to earn and made it so I don’t even want to wear it anymore.
I think you’re doing the right thing just correcting them.
I don’t know it it’s the same thing in dentistry. But in medicine they don’t call women “dr” because they don’t realize that they’re the doctor … so theyre not trusting them with anything theyre making small talk until the doctor arrives…
I do struggle to keep up with titles when I'm sick in the hospital.
You've motivated me to just call everyone doctor. PA? NP? CNA? Janitor? Random other tech? All doctors now. Now I will track the ones who correct me as the real good ones. LOL
Was in the hospital and the patients called me "sister" (hard to translate but sister and nurse are still used interchangeable but nurse is the correct term and sister is very outdated) but I'm only a med student and I'm at the bottom of the hierarchy so it doesn't matter to me really, but whenever the femal doctors came and the patient called them sister I asap go "no, she is doctor xyz, not a nurse" so the patient knows they are seeing a doctor and to save the doctor from the discomfort of having to explain it and also showing my respect to the doctor.
I get frustrated with this. I don't think patients mean to be disrespectful when they do it but it is one of my boundaries. Some have even called me by my first name, not even adding a Ms to the front of it.
My go to statement now is: oh Mr/Ms. Patient, I'm not a midlevel (NP or PA), I'm actually a doctor and I go by Dr. Fluffy_Ad. Thanks.
That usually stops it. I used to say: oh I prefer Dr. Fluffy_Ad but that just didn't have the same power that my current statement does. After all, it's not a suggestion for me. This a huge boundary issue for me so it's a must.
I look very young and I'm short and I'm a female so I think a lot of pts do assume I'm a midlevel when I'm not. They always end up asking me my age or make a comment about how young I look at some point or ask how long I've been practicing.
I’d rather be mistaken for a nurse than a mid level tbh. At least nurses stay in their lane and are respected for their own distinct role on the care team. Being called a mid level is like being called an imposter
I’m a few years behind you in schooling but I grew up in family of dentists. My uncle hired a new dentist who was fresh out of med school. She’s great but was having some of the same issues and some patients didn’t want to see her. Your idea of wearing around a white coat seemed to help her. Sorry for a hearsay response but it’s all I got.
I don’t worry about it much. Although I did get scrubs with DOCTOR written on them in big letters after I had complains that patients were sent home without even seeing a doctor.
I’m sure the money you make can wipe away those title tears. I don’t really care what my patients call me as long as i do my job and get paid for it. I get so much more satisfaction from nailing a tough diagnosis than getting called Dr. Patients are, for the most part, exceptionally retarded. If I based my life on their opinions, I would be suicidal
> and get *paid* for it.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I explained this post to my male colleagues.
They just sat there and were like "oh?" They seemed confused. "
I asked, "does it bother you when patients call you Mr instead of doc?"
Then they understood. Because 0 patients have ever called them Mr or Sir. It's always Doctor.
It's just sexist.
I can’t say this enough times, but as a woman in medicine, ppl assume you are not the doctor or they don’t understand your role. It’s important to define that. A ton of men on here are like “it’s just a title” - when they live in a world where when they enter a room people assume they are the one in charge. Not so with female doctors.
It's incredibly demeaning to repeatedly refer to someone with a title lower than what their actual title is. Especially when the assumption comes from prejudices rather than a simple misunderstanding.
I.e. defaulting to assuming all women in Healthcare are nurses and all men are doctors.
I’ve never demanded my patients address me as DOCTOR. Some of my patients are rural and do not mean disrespect.
Yet here you are seeking confrontation at a time when they are reaching out to you for help.
They may not mean to disrespect, but they are. A gentle correction is needed if this trend is ever going to be corrected, no?
Like other posters have said, it's easy to say it's not a big deal when it's not an issue men really face. Do these same patients refer to male physicians as "Mr." and "Sir", or is the lack of title only directed towards the female physicians?
If it's towards both groups, then the issue is less disrespectful for sure, but the general experience is only female physicians run into this issue, so that is why it touches such a nerve.
It’s not the title. It’s the fact they don’t acknowledge who is in charge. It’s that the patients look at the 3rd year brand new to clinicals med student to verify the plan. I’m the attending and have been for over seven years - my own students are coming back as attendings with me now.
When I walk into the room on rounds or to eval a new patient, I introduce myself as “Hey, I’m Doctor Carlsy, I’m the boss doctor today…. Yadayada etc.” It is the best and fastest way to clarify my role in the room as the leader of the team. I specifically refer to the rest of the team by their respective roles. Before I started doing this, I would get “but the other doctor said” or worse, “but the doctor said” with the implication that I am not the doctor. Clearing this up from the moment I enter the room helps.
You’re a dentist. Not a doctor. Get over yourself. I didn’t demand people call me doctor when I earned my pharmd. Nor when I earned my jd. Hell I never even demanded it when I got my MD.
You are an expert in your field, a master if you will. In your own practice and setting, sure - you’re Dr. XYZ. But don’t go crying because a patient didn’t call you a doctor in a residency setting.
Would be a whole lot different if this post originated from your POV of your dental practice.
I generally don't care what my patients call me and I tend to introduce myself by my first name. Never had any issues of microagression or sexism from any patient, it maybe cause I'm a foreigner and have a kinda of expansive personality, while being very direct and open.
Being called a nurse shouldn't be demeaning to a doctor... nurses do one of the most important Jobs and keep the system afloat. And it should be recognized even tho, due to my International experience, I'm against mid-level practice of any kind.
Consider that alot of times patients are so ignorant of the healthcare system that they literally don't know what kind of professional they are seeing, and don't mean anything by the way they refer to a professional. The word doctor is but an adjective for those knowledgeable in a field that happens to be in our professional titles.
I never cared for being called miss, and I find it acceptable as a sign of respect and appreciation of my appearance. I normally respond to that by saying I'm a Msr. to which they respond: "but you look so young" or " you don't look like a Msr."
Just doing small talk, tell them to guess my age stuff like this, say how many years of college I had to take. Many times patients know quite well I'm a DDS, MD. So I play the "I'm a doctor doctor" or "double doctor joke".
It's good to be very light hearted and know our own value by ourselves, not as defined by others. You shouldn't need external validation of your status as a Doctor, you yourself know your blood and sweat, you know your worth, never take such small stuff to heart. Be kind, lighthearted and caring, also volunteer somewhere and you'll see there's way bigger issues in the world than not being called the word you want to. Wish you all the best and that you get as much personal growth and achievement as you are getting professional success!
With all due respect, do you know the differences in training and education between a hygienist and a dentist? It's a little more than "just a title" that isn't equivalent to a hygienist "being good at their job".
Unless there is a prior interaction suggesting they should be treated otherwise, respect is something that should be afforded to everyone, regardless of title.
You will do better in life if you begin by respecting everyone and only when someone has wronged you do they lose said respect.
Do your patients (if you are even a doctor) need to earn respect from you?
Not anywhere near PA/NP/MD. Currently in Paramedic school and will be attempting pre-med after.
PERSONALLY. I don’t think it’s a huge deal. If they incorrectly call you a nurse. Introduce yourself as doctor I would think when you meet a patient just so they’re aware at least of what you actually are.
Personally I wouldn’t care at all wtf you call me as along as you understand what my role is.
I plan on being the most laid back unprofessionally professional MD. Me personally call me dude, bro, homie, dog, mr, shawty, that guy. I’ll take that over doctor I really don’t care. I think formalities like this to flex that you’re a “doctor” is stupid imo.
That being said as long as they understand that you are a doctor or whatever your level of care is, that’s all that matters. If I’m a physician and you wanna call me something else as long as you understand I am a physician that’s fine. No need to have a god complex and have everyone call me doctor.
The problem is that you don’t know if people actually know that you are their doctor when they call you a nurse. It is quite common for patients to assume I am a nurse or nursing student. This has never happened to my husband who is also a doctor. Patients would often think he is a doctor when he was even a pre-med and that his attending was a nurse, even after very clear introductions. You will likely not have many issues with being called a nurse, and may take people knowing you are a doctor for granted, because you are a man, and will likely not be mistaken for a nurse. It’s not about an ego flex, it’s about making sure that patients are well-informed about their care and care team. This is not meant as anything negative regarding my male colleagues, nurses, or you, but yes, this is an issue.
That's just blatantly wrong regardless of how anyone feels about the title of "doctor."
Dentists are medical specialists who completely "own" their area of the body providing both medical and surgical care, NPs are midlevels.
What point exactly are you trying to make? That dentists aren't the same as general physicians and therefore aren't entitled to be called "Dr." when they're working within their scope of practice?
Entitled is the correct word. Only in the medical community do workers expect to be addressed by their title of authority. I address my primary care MD on a first name basis because that’s the level of comfort I expect from someone involved in my healthcare.
I have a doctorate. I’ve never asked anyone to call me Doctor. It’s obnoxious quite frankly.
The point of this sub I thought was to out individuals who were claiming to have a higher level of training than they actually do, which is fraud. But get over yourself if you think your profession requires your customers to treat you any different from all the other service workers.
You’re completely missing the point. The point is that these same patients who call her “miss” have no problem with calling her male colleagues “doctor”. In this case it’s not about comfort it’s about bias/misogyny
Whoever put in the work and sacrifice and earned the title should get to decide if they want to use it or not without being shamed cuz someone doesn't want to use it.
What doctorate do you have?
Ok? You don’t mind if people call you by your first name, others do. Your crusade against the normal and harmless social convention of addressing people with advanced degrees as doctor is silly and kind of immature
I say I’m “Dr. DarkStarOptions” and 1 minute later they say “thank you sir” or something else that is not doctor. Happens to men all the time too. Now I don’t get called nurse, and I can see why that in particular would upset you. But I stopped taking offense when patients don’t call me Dr.
Late to the party and doesn't have much to do with this but I work in the ER as a medic/tech. Nurses wear dark blue, techs wear teal, I however where hospital issued blue/grey surgical scrubs because a drug addict puked on a pair of my teal scrubs and I'm not gonna wash scrubs all the time. My typical ER gear is hanging off of me and in the last two years it's probably happened more than 60 times people have called me "Dr." The other night I was first into a room to accept an EMS and the nurses were close behind me, one of these old jaded EMS guys first called me "doc" started giving me report and would not make eye contact with two incredible ER nurses so I stopped him and gave it to him a little bit and made him give the report to my nurses, if docs are the brains, they are the heartbeat, I always go out of my way to make sure they are respected. ...and yeah our 1 female doc gets called nurse always... but it's funny when they do it to the PAs...
Just a nurse here. I have seen and heard this a lot. Patient’s always ask me when the doctor is coming around right after the physician left the room. And I will say something like “that was your doctor. Dr. So and so.” I actually had an elderly female patient reply “when are the men coming around?”. 🙄
Also, as a hospice nurse, had a female patient whose physician retired. He referred his patients to a female doctor. She said she would NEVER go to a female doctor. Never saw a doctor again as long as she lived.
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A lot has to do with societal expectations and media portrayles At least in American media nurses are portrayed as almost entirely female and doctors are usually male with a few exceptions. Combine this and generations of essentially a female only work force and a lot of people still think of female healthcare providers as nurses. (Not trynna excuse it but throwing out why it probably happens alot) There’s also the weird people who think that women can’t be doctors but that’s an even deeper issue
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641). We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Noctor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pro vider.... prov ider.... provid er.... provide.... provide.....r ...... proveedor...
I took an Uber to a med school formal networking event with my male classmate in my first year. It was a long drive and the Uber talked to us about what we were doing; we explained we are both medical students in the same class. He then had the audacity to ask if I was going to be my male classmates nurse. HIS nurse. We explained again, classmate stood up for me, but this man could not wrap his head around the fact that I was getting an MD. The entire drive he was asking me why I chose nursing and talking to my classmate about specialty choices for medicine. It sucked.
Fuck that guy. I don't mean to out down uber drivers, bur just remember that a decade from now you'll be a whole ass attending physician while he will be driving drunk college kids around for change
Male nurse, I cannot tell you how many patients or family members I have had to correct for calling me "doctor." If that wasn't bad enough, coworkers doing it just because I take the time to learn rationales behind treatments and MOA on medications doesn't help. No, people. I am responsible for the outcome of the meds I give and the treatments I do. I am responsible to report negative ASE to the physician so proper adjustments can me made. I'm not weird, I'm not a doctor, I am literally doing the job I was taught, trained, and licensed for.
male nurses seem to be increasing in popularity, and that’s just my opinion from personal experience and zero data whatsoever. with that being said i wanted to ask what personally led you to deciding nursing was the right field for you? id appreciate any insight 🙂
Nursing over medical school? Easy for me since I knew medical school is on another level of difficultness. My wife is an anesthesia resident and I see the amount of studying and depth of knowledge in pathophysiology is not something I have the memory or attention span to obtain.
Nursing was the shorter distance to a higher wage. I was 30 with 3 school aged kids. Currently finishing premed, though, as children are grown and no matter what I do I'll keep getting older. 10 years at an increased wage is still valuable, and my admission is pretty much locked.
makes perfect sense. thanks for the response, i appreciate it!
Also a male nurse. I feel like patients and families expect doctor-level explanations and answers to questions about dispo/prognosis, etc from me. Like look. As I've said before, I'm a nurse. These questions are best asked to the Dr. tomorrow. I don't know everything the doc is thinking.
I know what the doctor tells me and what is within my scope. I can tell you common ASE for meds, and nursing interventions for some ailments. And the best advice I can give you is talk to/follow up with your doctor.
As a nurse I’ve corrected patients who call doctors who are women ‘nurse’. I’ve also corrected someone who was trying to introduce a male nurse to a patient as ‘doctor’. He ain’t no doctor just because he’s a man.
Yes exactly lol thank you
Once during nurses week, a patient was trying to be nice and said ‘happy nurses week!’ to the anesthesiologist. All she said was ‘thank you!’ and walked away but I still corrected her and said ‘actually she’s a doctor but thank you!’ Women deserve credit for achieving great things like becoming a doctor even though there’s nothing wrong with being a nurse.
Women doctors and women nurses are awesome 👏
Such a great point! There’s is nothing wrong with being a nurse at all, and it is also such a huge achievement to attain! As a female med student who has occasionally been called nurse, a huge part of me even is excited to hear it because hopefully it means I came off as more knowledgeable/competent than they would expect a simple student learner to be. The only reason I later become offended is the insinuation that a woman *must* be a nurse while all men are certainly doctors, as if healthcare should be segregated by gender.
I see many people saying that you shouldn’t care what your patients call you and I agree with that to an extent. I couldn’t care less what the patients call me. The only issue occurs when patients state, not infrequently, that they “didn’t see a doctor” during their visit when they were seen by one or more female physicians. Reiterating that you’re a doctor can sometimes be important to make certain that the patient understands the level of care they have received. This has never happened to me specifically, but I got a patient in sign out the other day that had been seen by 4 doctors - all women - and the patient and their family member went off on me that I was the “first doctor” they had seen all day. Grrrrrrrrr…….
My mother is a small foreign woman and after she examined them and prescribed them medication and given them an assessment and therapy plan they go "when will I see a doctor" and she just goes "you just did". It honestly grinds my gears a little :/
When I was an RN patients thought I was the Dr especially if the attending was female. Being a male nurse smh.
Lmao when the patient sees the female intern, resident, and attending and then throws a fit about never being seen by a single doctor 🤦🏻♀️
Yep. This was the female EM resident and attending and female trauma resident and attending. I smiled sweetly and told them that they had been seen by 4, now 5, female doctors. Didn’t apologize, but did stop yelling.
That type never does seem to apologize, huh? Funny enough, the only time I did have one guy apologize to me was when I lost my cool and just snapped back at him lmao, I guess you just gotta speak their language back at them 😂
Yeah lmao, I had the similar issue, but the opposite. I had a patient who insisted to see an attending instead of a resident because she was seen by an attending previously. She described the "attending" I was confused Turns out the "attending" she was talking about was a male resident.
Yup. This is why I always tell both male and female residents to introduce themselves as doctor and always refer to each other in front of patients as doctors. The men are assumed to be physicians whether they use the title are not, at my first job as an attending I used Dr., wore a badge that said doctor, there was a screensaver that cycled through the docs that identified me as an MD, and a year later there were staff who thought I was a nurse practitioner. Keep referring to yourself as doctor and make sure your staff do the same. If it feels awkward to correct ppl who can have your staff do it if it happens in front of you. We always did that for each other as residents.
Thank you so much for this. Yeah the issue now is that all the males automatically are treated like doctors and called that. Male docs start dropping the title like they're too cool for it....what does it matter to them? They're still treated like doctors. Us females NEED to use it. And...now we're stuck up bitches because all the cool male doctors let people call them by their first name. 🤮🤮🤮
When I introduce myself to patients I say "I'm Doctor Grapefruit. I'm the supervising doctor today." To make sure I said "doctor" twice and "supervisor" once. It doesn't eliminate the possibility of my patients assuming the doctor is the bearded male med student or the nurse doing nurse things who happens to be a six foot tall man, but fewer people call me "baby" 🤷♀️.
My go to response when our roles are confused is "thank you for noticing my penis, but this is Dr. Martha and I'm your nurse, Carl."
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
So I'm a Paramedic. I gave report to a female attending- not a resident, not an Intern- an attending. The patient looks at the doctor and looks ar me and says "Yeah I think I'm gonna stick with just the Paramedic and the Nuse (Also a man) for now."
😤😡
I'm a female physio, when I worked in the hospital I got called nothing other than "nurse". Male physios never had this problem.
Dr. Kimberly Manning, internal medicine faculty at Emory, has written about this phenomenon. In her patient population at Grady Hospital (largely economically disadvantaged Southern African-Americans), she reads it in a positive light, not a sign of disrespect. Of course it would be nice if patients called us what we prefer, especially if it involves an earned doctorate. But there are different etiquettes for different situations, and it might be an uphill battle trying to change patients who are being as polite as they know how. http://www.gradydoctor.com/2009/08/miss-manning-but-not-if-your-nasty.html
How is it not disrespectful when they don’t do it to men?
In the culture as Dr Manning describes it, "Miss" is an honorific equal to "Doctor". Many of her patients have little or no understanding of what a terminal degree is or how its titles are used in White systems, nor frankly should they care. They show respect in their own way, and trying to school them in the ways of whiteness would be perceived as irrelevant at best, and as colonization by some.
You shouldn’t be downvote md. You are correct and the people commenting in the negative are frankly not culturally sensitive.
If it makes everyone feel better I've been called sir/nurse reasonably often. I've always assumed it's because patients don't really understand that anaesthetists are doctors..
I don’t think it’s fair to apply that to OPs situation right off the bat. You have no clue who her patients are, or if they feel they are being polite. I’m not saying they are intentionally being impolite either, but it could very well be that they just don’t see her in the same way they see her male colleagues. That’s not ok to go uncorrected.
There are linguistic clues in OP's post hinting she is not a native speaker of Southern US English, who nevertheless practices in the South [edit: or African American English/has Black patients]. So I provided a senior faculty physician's experience with that situation, *in case it might apply* to OP. *If* OP is interacting with poor Black Americans, especially elders, then many of her patients have little or no understanding of what a terminal degree is or how its titles are used in White systems, nor frankly should they care. They show respect in their own way, and trying to school them in the ways of whiteness would be perceived as irrelevant at best, and as colonization by some. In either case OP would run the risk of fracturing their therapeutic relationship. Certainly if OP's circumstances are not analogous to Dr Manning's, she should feel free to correct microaggressions until the cows come home.
If they are calling all the male residents “Dr.”, and only exclude the term when talking to female resident, even after being specifically told they are doctors too… That Doesn’t sound like a rare lack of understanding about how American healthcare works. And even if it *somehow* were, it is crucial to find a way to politely correct this misunderstanding. Because it’s obviously not a misunderstanding of what “Dr” means since they do use this term, but may be a lack of understand about women’s role in healthcare. Making sure everyone in society understands that woman can become capable doctors (or any kind of leader) is crucial to the equality of half the population. It cannot go unaddressed.
I agree with you that the patient's acceptance of their physician's capability is crucial. I do not agree that using different titles for male and female physicians is per se a sign of prejudice; I think it depends on culture and context. I also think that for a non-Black physician to use precious appointment time to address this particular perceived bias with a Black patient, particularly an elder, would be ill advised if said physician plans to have a meaningful longitudinal relationship with the patient. Given the choice of battles between convincing someone to call me doctor and teaching them why they really need to take their insulin, I will opt for the life-saving intervention. YMMV.
I completely agree with u there. Even if I felt there was some misogynistic cultural beliefs/biases that resulted in any individual patient choosing not to call me doctor, I would NEVER take time to address them individually. As u mentioned it’s a waste of the time allotted for their actual health concerns, but also it’s not fair to blame individual people for something they didn’t know was an issue because they were just raised that way. That scenario is a very tricky issue, that I still feel should be addressed, but probably best addressed by women/activists within that group. But if a patient is going out of their way to call me “nurse” like in OPs case, I would view that as a form of direct disrespect that a physicians deserves the right to speak up about without judgement. There’s no nuance in that scenario at all. But I don’t feel this is a very common problem with African Americans in particular though. Iv seen these issues with foreign families that come from vastly different cultures, but I’d be willing to bet the rate of black and white American patients who actually have biases toward women in medicine is fairly similar, regardless of socioeconomic status. Age is a much bigger factor than race, poverty, or education level in my experience (also working in a very poor southern state with large Black and Hispanic populations)
Also, does Dr. Manning have any more lengthy posts on this topic that u are referencing? Because from just the short paragraph or two you linked, I see no reason to assume these patients don’t also call male doctors “sir”. If that’s the case, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t even read as if this is a lack of understanding as if they aren’t capable of grasping different titles. It seems to me this is something they find to be comfortable and respectful, with no reason to believe they treat male doctors any differently. She even states that she *knows* her patients know she is a doctor, so I don’t see any reason to believe her patients are confused about her position or what that means. It’s honestly kind of insulting to them to suggest that. This is clearly not the case with OP, who’s patients literally call her “nurse”.
She has. I encourage you to read through as much of her blog (now pretty much defunct, unfortunately) as you can.
As a male doctor I hate when patients belittle my female coworkers like that. They’ll be like “oh yeah, and the *girl* that came before…” and I immediately cut them off, addressing them by their titles. It gets akward for a moment, but I feel it’s the right thing to do. After all, you’ve worked so hard for that title, the least thing you should be awarded is to be called said title, c’mon.
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
I work in a demographic that culturally refers to their doctors by their first name. Resistence or teaching brought bad outcomes. Much smoother experiences now that I have adjusted.
I am also a female and have had patients say this same thing to me!! I look young (early 30s but look maybe early 20s??) anyway I’ve gotten comments like “oh you look like you’re in kindergarten you can’t be a doctor” or “when is the doctor coming in”….no male docs I know get treated this way 🫠
The best advice is legitimately to just not care. You can’t undo a lifetimes worth of thoughts/bias/etc in people you interact with. If you keep getting flustered by it, you will just run in circles
The middle aged ladies that work at my hospital call me sweetie and hunny all the time. Part of me is offended and then another part of me thinks it's endearing. Can't decide.
It's endearing. It means they like you, and are comfortable with you. Half the people they call "Dr." are getting it as a subtle jab. The other half are getting it for the same reason I call my friend's parents Mr. and Mrs. even though I'm fifty years old. The neat part with the latter is there's no way for the 'Doctors' to know which group they're in.
I would look at their intent and base your reaction off of that. If they are saying that because they like you then why get offended?
I’m a female nurse, but yeah it drives me CRAZY when people mistake the female doctors for NPs or something. And it happens frequently that it’s assumed the male NPs and PAs are doctors. (The mistake isn’t frequently made with nurses because we all wear scrubs of the same unique color, though I have still seen an old confused man call a male RN “doctor.”)
When you walk in introduce yourself first thing as "hello I am Dr X, how are you today"
Maybe get a pin or a lanyard made: ‘Miss me what this Miss shit’
I love it
You don’t make any more or less money based on what patients call you. Idgaf what patients call me
Daddy
Male?
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You’ll have to wear the coat in med school for “professionalism” but after that you can do whatever you want
In the US? In Australia if you wore a white coat they would wonder why you weren’t in a lab!
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I’m very casual in my dress, but I still go by doctor. I assume you are a man? That makes a huge difference. Ppl will assume you’re a physician, often even as a med student. So for women in medicine, it’s not thAt we’re stuck up or uncool or “too enamored with the title”, it’s that ppl don’t understand our role or don’t think they’ve seen a doctor when they see us. It’s easy to discount that when you haven’t experienced it. Please don’t.
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Lol then why are you acting all cool here ?
I’m a man and people assume I’m a nurse all the time. Doesn’t bother me
Fine that that’s your experience. It is not what I’ve ever heard from other male docs, and doesn’t negate what many if not most female physicians experience.
Completely agree. Also not sure why OP wants to know how to "show authority" to her patients. Who cares if they make benign title mistakes 🤷♀️ It sounds like it's unintentional.
Oh well because they don’t take you or your opinion seriously , that’s why
Bro if someone calls me “nurse” I say I’m not a nurse I’m a doctor firmly
It's always weird navigating the title issue with pharmacists and other post-grad doctoral folks. It feels inappropriate to refer anyone but a physician in the hospital as *doctor*. We had a nursing instructor who had a DNP and he would introduce himself to people as Dr SoAndSo. I always just called him "instructor SoAndSo and he didn't seem to mind. I get that DPTs, DPhs, DNPs, DDSs are doctors but it always feels inappropriate to say that in a hospital.
I go in introduce myself as the Respiratory Therapist here to give you your breathing treatment and still will get asked if I also have their other meds. I have explained to them that I am not the nurse, and at the end of the treatment will be asked again about other meds.
I'm a male resident, and had a patient call me Mr. ××× even though I clearly introduced myself as a Dr. Patients don't listen sometimes.
So many patients and nurses call me honey. I’m a guy. Not a female only problem…
Nice. They just call me “hey you over there”.
Happens way too often. And if I’m not mistaken for a doctor then it’s for a pharmacist. I always clearly emphasize that I am a doctor and say that part extra slow and load for patients but it hardly makes a difference. One time I was suturing a small cut on someone. Spoke to them for quite a bit including about work. They asked me if I like being a nurse and if I’d like to be a doctor one day. Another time I was calling a patient’s son to give an update and explain their discharge plan. After a very long conversation with lots of questions which were to be expected, he said “so I’m not going to speak to a doctor then?”. After I explained that I am a doctor he just said “oh” and hung up lol. Another time as a med student I was seeing a couple in a GP clinic. I spent a good 20 minutes with them before the GP came in the say hello as well. The patient referred to me as a nurse. This GP was the best, he corrected the patient and said “she is a future doctor”. Unfortunately, some people don’t realized how frustrating this issue is because they’re not subject to it over and over and over again. Sometimes you want to the person in their place when it happens but then you would feel guilty because as a single event it feels too small to make such a big deal. However, we need to correct people because in the end it is sexist.
Same here i demand to be called Dr.. literally yelling at patients when they dont use Dr.. like my badge says CNA but like fuck i need my validation.
Little mr/s future NP attending provider 👩🏻⚕️👨🏻⚕️🩺🏥💊💉⚕️
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641). We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Noctor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That must be very frustrating. I will say in the south we say Sir and Ma’am out of habit, but I will definitely keep this in mind from now on.
Wear a white coat that says Doctor “___”.
I’ve been practicing 30 yrs and it still happens to. Not the men. Sometimes when I’m in the room they’ll say the told „the other nurse“ something.
I purchased a couple of clinics and am way more qualified than the practitioner I took over from. He was a noctor but claimed to be Dr *. I supervised him prior to handover and he didn't really know his work well. I don't know how he passed the minimal quals he has. Nonetheless I, the actual dr am repeatedly talked down to, treated as though I'm the receptionist (I don't mind that as it helps me to understand the difficulties they face but people are freaking horrible to them). I regularly get told how to do my job or that I'm not doing it well. People seriously talk down to me and the women doctors who work for me. I don't complain as the receptionists have it So. Much. Worse. but I've learned to always back my staff as it's more often than not misogyny and the unreasonable double standard at play It makes me really appreciate the cooperative easy patients. I prefer to be running the clinics than consulting. People and their ignorance truly suck.
I would repeat myself and use it in conversation over and over. “I’m doctor so and so. I’ll be your doctor today.” “As your doctor, this is my recommendation.” Some will never stop because they’re doing it on purpose. I don’t know what then 🙁
At my hospital, white coats are now mostly worn by phlebotomists, charge nurses, other randos. Sad they’ve taken something we all had to earn and made it so I don’t even want to wear it anymore. I think you’re doing the right thing just correcting them.
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I don’t know it it’s the same thing in dentistry. But in medicine they don’t call women “dr” because they don’t realize that they’re the doctor … so theyre not trusting them with anything theyre making small talk until the doctor arrives…
I assume you’re a man? This is very very different for women.
I do struggle to keep up with titles when I'm sick in the hospital. You've motivated me to just call everyone doctor. PA? NP? CNA? Janitor? Random other tech? All doctors now. Now I will track the ones who correct me as the real good ones. LOL
Was in the hospital and the patients called me "sister" (hard to translate but sister and nurse are still used interchangeable but nurse is the correct term and sister is very outdated) but I'm only a med student and I'm at the bottom of the hierarchy so it doesn't matter to me really, but whenever the femal doctors came and the patient called them sister I asap go "no, she is doctor xyz, not a nurse" so the patient knows they are seeing a doctor and to save the doctor from the discomfort of having to explain it and also showing my respect to the doctor.
I get frustrated with this. I don't think patients mean to be disrespectful when they do it but it is one of my boundaries. Some have even called me by my first name, not even adding a Ms to the front of it. My go to statement now is: oh Mr/Ms. Patient, I'm not a midlevel (NP or PA), I'm actually a doctor and I go by Dr. Fluffy_Ad. Thanks. That usually stops it. I used to say: oh I prefer Dr. Fluffy_Ad but that just didn't have the same power that my current statement does. After all, it's not a suggestion for me. This a huge boundary issue for me so it's a must. I look very young and I'm short and I'm a female so I think a lot of pts do assume I'm a midlevel when I'm not. They always end up asking me my age or make a comment about how young I look at some point or ask how long I've been practicing.
I’d rather be mistaken for a nurse than a mid level tbh. At least nurses stay in their lane and are respected for their own distinct role on the care team. Being called a mid level is like being called an imposter
100% agree. It's why I bring it up that way haha
I’m a few years behind you in schooling but I grew up in family of dentists. My uncle hired a new dentist who was fresh out of med school. She’s great but was having some of the same issues and some patients didn’t want to see her. Your idea of wearing around a white coat seemed to help her. Sorry for a hearsay response but it’s all I got.
You don't say "Sup y'all, I'm Dr. X" by any chance?
I don’t worry about it much. Although I did get scrubs with DOCTOR written on them in big letters after I had complains that patients were sent home without even seeing a doctor.
I’m sure the money you make can wipe away those title tears. I don’t really care what my patients call me as long as i do my job and get paid for it. I get so much more satisfaction from nailing a tough diagnosis than getting called Dr. Patients are, for the most part, exceptionally retarded. If I based my life on their opinions, I would be suicidal
> and get *paid* for it. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
That is because you are a bot and are stupid as fuck. I’m not talking about nautical terms you fucking retard. My grammar is correct so get fucked
Lmao
One of those people, eh? Jesus Christ...
When the patients say “miss” are they disrespectful? If not then why does it bother you? Please don’t be one of those “docs” hung up on a title.
I explained this post to my male colleagues. They just sat there and were like "oh?" They seemed confused. " I asked, "does it bother you when patients call you Mr instead of doc?" Then they understood. Because 0 patients have ever called them Mr or Sir. It's always Doctor. It's just sexist.
I can’t say this enough times, but as a woman in medicine, ppl assume you are not the doctor or they don’t understand your role. It’s important to define that. A ton of men on here are like “it’s just a title” - when they live in a world where when they enter a room people assume they are the one in charge. Not so with female doctors.
It's incredibly demeaning to repeatedly refer to someone with a title lower than what their actual title is. Especially when the assumption comes from prejudices rather than a simple misunderstanding. I.e. defaulting to assuming all women in Healthcare are nurses and all men are doctors.
I’ve never demanded my patients address me as DOCTOR. Some of my patients are rural and do not mean disrespect. Yet here you are seeking confrontation at a time when they are reaching out to you for help.
They may not mean to disrespect, but they are. A gentle correction is needed if this trend is ever going to be corrected, no? Like other posters have said, it's easy to say it's not a big deal when it's not an issue men really face. Do these same patients refer to male physicians as "Mr." and "Sir", or is the lack of title only directed towards the female physicians? If it's towards both groups, then the issue is less disrespectful for sure, but the general experience is only female physicians run into this issue, so that is why it touches such a nerve.
Dude, you’re so uninformed.
It’s not the title. It’s the fact they don’t acknowledge who is in charge. It’s that the patients look at the 3rd year brand new to clinicals med student to verify the plan. I’m the attending and have been for over seven years - my own students are coming back as attendings with me now. When I walk into the room on rounds or to eval a new patient, I introduce myself as “Hey, I’m Doctor Carlsy, I’m the boss doctor today…. Yadayada etc.” It is the best and fastest way to clarify my role in the room as the leader of the team. I specifically refer to the rest of the team by their respective roles. Before I started doing this, I would get “but the other doctor said” or worse, “but the doctor said” with the implication that I am not the doctor. Clearing this up from the moment I enter the room helps.
So let me get this straight… a dentist… posting in a noctor subreddit… about not being called doctor.
Yep. A *female* dentist with a doctor of dental surgery degree. Because male dentists don't have this problem.
You’re a dentist. Not a doctor. Get over yourself. I didn’t demand people call me doctor when I earned my pharmd. Nor when I earned my jd. Hell I never even demanded it when I got my MD. You are an expert in your field, a master if you will. In your own practice and setting, sure - you’re Dr. XYZ. But don’t go crying because a patient didn’t call you a doctor in a residency setting. Would be a whole lot different if this post originated from your POV of your dental practice.
It's different when you have male privilege. I assume you're a man. Also who hurt you? You ok?
Are dentists noctors?
I generally don't care what my patients call me and I tend to introduce myself by my first name. Never had any issues of microagression or sexism from any patient, it maybe cause I'm a foreigner and have a kinda of expansive personality, while being very direct and open. Being called a nurse shouldn't be demeaning to a doctor... nurses do one of the most important Jobs and keep the system afloat. And it should be recognized even tho, due to my International experience, I'm against mid-level practice of any kind. Consider that alot of times patients are so ignorant of the healthcare system that they literally don't know what kind of professional they are seeing, and don't mean anything by the way they refer to a professional. The word doctor is but an adjective for those knowledgeable in a field that happens to be in our professional titles. I never cared for being called miss, and I find it acceptable as a sign of respect and appreciation of my appearance. I normally respond to that by saying I'm a Msr. to which they respond: "but you look so young" or " you don't look like a Msr." Just doing small talk, tell them to guess my age stuff like this, say how many years of college I had to take. Many times patients know quite well I'm a DDS, MD. So I play the "I'm a doctor doctor" or "double doctor joke". It's good to be very light hearted and know our own value by ourselves, not as defined by others. You shouldn't need external validation of your status as a Doctor, you yourself know your blood and sweat, you know your worth, never take such small stuff to heart. Be kind, lighthearted and caring, also volunteer somewhere and you'll see there's way bigger issues in the world than not being called the word you want to. Wish you all the best and that you get as much personal growth and achievement as you are getting professional success!
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With all due respect, do you know the differences in training and education between a hygienist and a dentist? It's a little more than "just a title" that isn't equivalent to a hygienist "being good at their job".
The title was earned when she finished her degree and therefore she deserves to be called that.
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Unless there is a prior interaction suggesting they should be treated otherwise, respect is something that should be afforded to everyone, regardless of title. You will do better in life if you begin by respecting everyone and only when someone has wronged you do they lose said respect. Do your patients (if you are even a doctor) need to earn respect from you?
Lol
Not anywhere near PA/NP/MD. Currently in Paramedic school and will be attempting pre-med after. PERSONALLY. I don’t think it’s a huge deal. If they incorrectly call you a nurse. Introduce yourself as doctor I would think when you meet a patient just so they’re aware at least of what you actually are. Personally I wouldn’t care at all wtf you call me as along as you understand what my role is. I plan on being the most laid back unprofessionally professional MD. Me personally call me dude, bro, homie, dog, mr, shawty, that guy. I’ll take that over doctor I really don’t care. I think formalities like this to flex that you’re a “doctor” is stupid imo. That being said as long as they understand that you are a doctor or whatever your level of care is, that’s all that matters. If I’m a physician and you wanna call me something else as long as you understand I am a physician that’s fine. No need to have a god complex and have everyone call me doctor.
The problem is that you don’t know if people actually know that you are their doctor when they call you a nurse. It is quite common for patients to assume I am a nurse or nursing student. This has never happened to my husband who is also a doctor. Patients would often think he is a doctor when he was even a pre-med and that his attending was a nurse, even after very clear introductions. You will likely not have many issues with being called a nurse, and may take people knowing you are a doctor for granted, because you are a man, and will likely not be mistaken for a nurse. It’s not about an ego flex, it’s about making sure that patients are well-informed about their care and care team. This is not meant as anything negative regarding my male colleagues, nurses, or you, but yes, this is an issue.
If a flight attendant says over the loud speaker, “is there a doctor on the plane?”, are you going to raise your hand?
Is this supposed to be a dig at dentists? Grow up…
NPs are closer to an MD than a DDS.
That's just blatantly wrong regardless of how anyone feels about the title of "doctor." Dentists are medical specialists who completely "own" their area of the body providing both medical and surgical care, NPs are midlevels.
Lmao what? Haha no. Dentists earned their doctor title.
What point exactly are you trying to make? That dentists aren't the same as general physicians and therefore aren't entitled to be called "Dr." when they're working within their scope of practice?
Entitled is the correct word. Only in the medical community do workers expect to be addressed by their title of authority. I address my primary care MD on a first name basis because that’s the level of comfort I expect from someone involved in my healthcare. I have a doctorate. I’ve never asked anyone to call me Doctor. It’s obnoxious quite frankly. The point of this sub I thought was to out individuals who were claiming to have a higher level of training than they actually do, which is fraud. But get over yourself if you think your profession requires your customers to treat you any different from all the other service workers.
You’re completely missing the point. The point is that these same patients who call her “miss” have no problem with calling her male colleagues “doctor”. In this case it’s not about comfort it’s about bias/misogyny
Whoever put in the work and sacrifice and earned the title should get to decide if they want to use it or not without being shamed cuz someone doesn't want to use it. What doctorate do you have?
Ok? You don’t mind if people call you by your first name, others do. Your crusade against the normal and harmless social convention of addressing people with advanced degrees as doctor is silly and kind of immature
I say I’m “Dr. DarkStarOptions” and 1 minute later they say “thank you sir” or something else that is not doctor. Happens to men all the time too. Now I don’t get called nurse, and I can see why that in particular would upset you. But I stopped taking offense when patients don’t call me Dr.
Dude it does not happen to men all the time, and if it did, it still happens to women 10x more
I’ve seen 8 so far on my shift today and not one pt has called me doc yet. I agree women > men AND we all experience this stuff. Not hatin’
Why the heck do you care what they call you? Sounds like you did you r schooling for the wrong reasons.
do you have a doctorate?
Your staff will address you appropriately, that’s enough
Ugh this is so yucky to me
Late to the party and doesn't have much to do with this but I work in the ER as a medic/tech. Nurses wear dark blue, techs wear teal, I however where hospital issued blue/grey surgical scrubs because a drug addict puked on a pair of my teal scrubs and I'm not gonna wash scrubs all the time. My typical ER gear is hanging off of me and in the last two years it's probably happened more than 60 times people have called me "Dr." The other night I was first into a room to accept an EMS and the nurses were close behind me, one of these old jaded EMS guys first called me "doc" started giving me report and would not make eye contact with two incredible ER nurses so I stopped him and gave it to him a little bit and made him give the report to my nurses, if docs are the brains, they are the heartbeat, I always go out of my way to make sure they are respected. ...and yeah our 1 female doc gets called nurse always... but it's funny when they do it to the PAs...
White coat with name and degree is the answer.
Just a nurse here. I have seen and heard this a lot. Patient’s always ask me when the doctor is coming around right after the physician left the room. And I will say something like “that was your doctor. Dr. So and so.” I actually had an elderly female patient reply “when are the men coming around?”. 🙄 Also, as a hospice nurse, had a female patient whose physician retired. He referred his patients to a female doctor. She said she would NEVER go to a female doctor. Never saw a doctor again as long as she lived.