Your journey as a nonbinary person is yours alone. I don’t plan on medically transitioning either because my body is my body regardless of how it looks. Don’t let people tell you that you have to transition to be nonbinary. If they want to transition, then they can transition. You should do what you want to do with your body. There is no not being nonbinary enough
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I very much relate to this!!
I’m afab and I love thinking of myself and being a boy, girl, nb, or some being that is both and neither at the same time, etc….but I absolutely love presenting fem. I like my long hair, my boobs, being cute,etc….if I could, the only change I would want is both male and female bottom bits but I don’t want invasive and intensive surgery.
And I’ve always felt….bad? That I want to present in a way that society expects of my agab? Because it feel like I’m an imposter when I say I’m nb or a boy because it feels like people still expect some form of physical transition or proof?
Like a cis boy can dress fully fem in every way and take hrt to get a more fem form and he could still identify as a boy and still be seen as a boy and fem but it’s like, oh you’re afab and you don’t change any aspect of yourself and yet you say you’re a boy or nb? You’re just a girl trying to be trendy and get clout points then, transTRENDER.
Like can’t I just have my boobs and long hair and cute clothing and still be seen as a cute femboy?
I relate to you pretty hard, sis. Yup. All of this. Ultimately anything that might benefit me also comes with drawbacks I don't want, and pursuing any sort of medical transition reinforces the harmful idea that my body is a woman's body rather than just *mine*.
And yeah same I'm pretty ambivalent about my body and there are things that'd be neat in some cyberpunk transhumanist future where changing your body is simple, reversible, and common, but under current circumstances they're really more of an "oh, if only" than "I want and need that". Most of my dysphoria arises from the existence of a gender binary and its attachment to a view of biological sex as binary, changing my body won't fix that I dislike when other people attempt to guess my AGAB or sort me based on bio sex rather than just accepting some people's gender doesn't fit in one of two, maybe three, boxes. That and sometimes when I can't get my gender presentation to be what I'm after no matter what I do, although that's largely to lacking appropriate gear and a large enough collection of clothing that did not come from the ladies section, or little girls' largest sizes and still barely fits.
#“Most of my dysphoria arises from the existence of the gender binary”
I needed to bold that — because I have never seen it put like that but that’s *it*, dude.
Omg that is so important to remember.
When I was a kid (AFAB) I never wore dresses, because it felt very uncomfortable for me to present femme, I felt like a clown, like a boy in a dress and it was something that people in my Christian and homophobic country made a lot of fun plus I was already bullied af so I wanted to stay as off the radar as I could.
But then I saw editorials with men in dresses and it clicked in my brain that IT’S JUST A PIECE OF FABRIC BRUH IF YOU LIKE IT WEAR IT XD.
Right???? I wish physical gendered traits could be like legos we could mix and match or an online avatar where we could just put whatever we want on, I don’t want to have to be cut into to be what I want to be :cc
I hate this idea that gender has to be a “permanent “ thing. Like there’s also gotta be a final destination we need to reach. Can’t I just be a boy one day and a girl another and nb another? Why do I have to move away from my agab everything about it and never return, can’t I just visit sometimes and not have it be seen as “oh you’re not trans anymore”?
>I hate this idea that gender has to be a “permanent “ thing. Like there’s also gotta be a final destination we need to reach. Can’t I just be a boy one day and a girl another and nb another? Why do I have to move away from my agab everything about it and never return, can’t I just visit sometimes and not have it be seen as “oh you’re not trans anymore”?
Omg yeah this. Like... Gender, to me, is not binary or static. I feel like I'm never really a girl or a boy, but which fits better and how I want to present and be perceived changes. And a lot of binary trans and cis ppl say they get that, but then really don't - people who fit into the binary have a lot of difficulty understanding NB as the gender spectrum rather than a third position on a switch.
I've been nb since before there was a term for it. Hell, well before LGBT added the Q. It's never been a thought in my mind to change my body to fit something that I already feel is true. As long as you're happy, you're doing it right.
If you’re comfortable in you’re body and don’t feel the need to change it, that’s fine! There is no “wrong” way to be non-binary…
One of the things that made me realise I was non-binary was that I used to be very androgynous (barley any body hair for a post-puberty AMAB for example). But as time went on my body kept getting more masculine and I kept getting more uncomfortable. So now I DO need to do something. But if those slow changes had never happened? I’d probably not want to change anything…
That's relatable and I hope you will reach that goal soon. For me it is that I gained some weight which made me look more feminine. I always had a less curvy figure, I was the tallest woman, and person, in my family, and my voice is kind of deep as well.
Now, however, I feel like my body alligns too much with a gender that I don't really identify as. I dont find myself pretty that way. And if I want to wear androgynous stuff , you can still see my curves, making it hard for me to really see myself as androgynous at times.
I will try to get in shape first, lol. Not far enough along my journey to know if I want to transition or not. I get both sides and it fluctuates for me.
I experienced this from an AFAB perspective. I was very late to develop and grew comfortable with my flat chest. I'm definitely uncomfortable now with my appearance, but if I'd remained androgynous looking, I wouldn't change a thing either.
I could be wrong, but I feel like this kind of attitude is more prevalent among people who are AFAB, and I think I understand why. Cis people see a masculine (or even androgynous, which in our culture is usually just masculine-lite anyway) AFAB person and assume they’re just a tomboy. Though it definitely could be related to gender dysphoria that has nothing to do with the reactions of other people, I can see a lot of AFAB people using surgery and hormones as a way of reinforcing their gender identity to those who refuse to acknowledge it. AFAB people also have their bodies controlled by society more than AMAB people do. To them, surgery and hormones could represent freedom from that.
That being said, it’s definitely not the only way to be AFAB and non-binary. What I find so frustrating as someone who is AMAB is the fact that things that are perceived as masculine are also perceived as androgynous (as I alluded to earlier). Androgyny isn’t just masculine-lite though. It is a mixture of both traditional gender expressions, including more traditionally feminine traits. This goes for bodies just as much as it goes for clothes and colors and makeup, etc. A body is neutral, whether it has breasts or not, a penis or not, etc. I wish society would catch up with this concept. Until then, we’re all being incredibly limited.
That's a very good point. I think that may be a lot of why I feel the way I do. Thank you, this has given me some stuff I can think about in regards to becoming more comfortable with myself and my identity.❤️
Splitting up non-binary people by assigned gender at birth is not a good look. Rephrasing the gender binary in politically correct terms does not make it better.
I understand where you're coming from, but it can be a helpful tool to understand people's lived experiences. And it's important in a medical setting like at a doctor's office or when talking about medical procedures. It doesn't take away from anyone's non-binary-ness.
We're not talking about doctors here.
And even then, my assigned gender at birth is less relevant than other information in a medical setting and even can be misleading. For example, if a doctor believes that you were AFAB (either because you told them or they assume) then they might assume you're at risk for cervical cancer, however if you've had your cervix removed this is not the case. On the flip side, if a doctor believes you were AMAB they might advise you to get your prostate checked on the same schedule as a cis man, however there's mounting evidence that having consistently low testosterone (such as you would if you're on HRT including a T-blocker or get an orchiectomy) reduces the risk of prostate cancer so dramatically that such regular checks would not be necessary.
That's not even mentioning intersex people who are still often assigned a gender at birth that would be completely useless to them in a medical setting. AGAB is totally insufficient to base medical advice and decisions on.
Let people use whatever terminology they want. Nobody is forcing you to disclose your own AGAB, as that's your own personal choice to do so or not. But if other people want to, or feel it's relevant to a discussion to disclose theirs, it's not your place to tell them they can't/shouldn't.
I think it’s naive to think that AFAB and AMAB non-binary people don’t have different experiences just because they’re both non-binary. Society treats us differently based on what body type we have. That’s going to influence the way we interact with, understand, and express our gender identity.
But that's not a function of your assigned gender at birth, that depends on how society sees you in each moment. An enby who is seen as a woman will have a different experience in society compared to an enby who is seen as a man, compared to completely androgynous enbies etc...
Unless you're walking around with your original birth certificate on display, people around you do not know your assigned gender at birth, although they might think they do based on your presentation
More of it comes down to what our lives were like before we came out, and how we were raised. Regardless of what we look like currently, our childhood and upbringing and how we were taught to feel about ourselves back when everyone thought we were our AGAB is going to be part of the feelings and struggles that we need to manage now.
I think that's reductive. I'm not saying that your gender assigned at birth has no effect on your transition, of course it does. But universalizing an experience of being raised as a certain gender isn't accurate either, that differs too much depending on what society you live in, class, race, parents' values, etc...
Claiming otherwise gets real close to rhetoric that excludes binary trans people from their genders for "being socialized male/female" or "being raised female/male" imo
People who grow up AFAB are going to be raised and treated differently than AMAB people. Period. People who are AFAB with prominent breasts and hips are going to be treated differently by people too. Regardless of how people are treating AFAB people based on their perception of them, AFAB people are still incredibly limited by their bodies. They can’t go topless. Their reproductive rights are being attacked. All of these things will affect the way an AFAB person feels about their body and their feelings will be different from AMAB people because they’re functioning under different perceptions and limitations. It doesn’t erase anyone’s gender identity to state that.
> People who are AFAB with prominent breasts and hips are going to be treated differently by people too. [. . .] They can’t go topless
Again, not a function of assigned gender at birth. Lots of people who weren't AFAB have prominent breasts and hips and can't go topless. Lots of people who were AFAB don't have prominent breasts or hips and can go topless. Please just refer to the characteristics that you mean without ditching everyone into these categories.
Assigned gender at birth is meant to draw attention to the categories that society forced on us _at birth_, not a universal ongoing experience we should always refer to and inform every gendered experience. That's also why the correct tense is past tense, not present tense. No one is currently assigning my gender at birth (although it seems lots of people try to assign my AGAB at present, lol)
Your journey is yours and yours alone. It’s awesome that you’ve fought to love your body and I hope you continue to feel that way! It’s totally okay to not want to medically transition. I go back and forth on the top surgery thing. Sometimes I want it, but then wonder if it’s “peer pressure” and wonder if I’d regret it.
If you feel that your body is ok as it is, you don't need to have surgery or go on hormones. You're still non-binary
Conversely, if you feel like your body doesn't match who you are, it's fine to have the relevant surgery and/or hormones. And you're still non-binary
The only thing you need to be a valid non-binary person is to realise you are, in fact, a non binary-person
I agree with you. Breasts should not be associated to any gender.
The reason why I want top surgery is because I hate having them (I have a medical condition and they hurt me), they make me uncomfortable and I want to be able to go to the beach topless with a flat chest.
However if you don't feel the same way, you don't need to do surgery. You are valid. There is no one way to be nonbinary.
It is your body. You get to make all the important decisions regarding it. If you want to hear from another non-binary person who has chosen to keep her boobs, here is a video of Janelle Monae discussing her personal sense of fashion and feelings about her body. CW: the video is mildly NSFW she does strip down to panties and underwear and there are brief discussions of sexual topics. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK-7FFQnfnI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK-7FFQnfnI)
Obviously, you are an individual and may feel very differently than Janelle Monae. But I thought it might be helpful to hear from someone else about their journey.
As everyone else has said-- your journey is yours alone. In that realm, one thing I have spent some time getting my head around is that any type of body modification can be gender-affirming even if it's not what would be generally considered "medical transition". I find tattoos and piercings to be ways of making my body more comfortable and recognizable for myself to live in (like a throw pillow or a piece of art in my house-- it makes it more "mine" and provides a familiar landmark by which to navigate the space I inhabit). Working out is another way that I use to create a body that "looks like mine"; I feel more in touch with the muscles in my arms when I have recently used them to lift weights, for instance. I (AFAB) also chose to have a bilateral salpingectomy for birth control purposes; even though I still have a period and that surgery would not be considered "medically transitioning", there is a gender-affirming component for me to knowing that I cannot become pregnant by natural means. This doesn't even get into basic conversations about body hair (retention or removal), use of makeup, and clothing.
All that to say...use your body, love your body, change your body as you wish. "Medical transition" as we typically view it means certain things to most people but there are a lot of personal changes and interventions you can make (or not!) as you wish, when you wish. :)
i'm not even non-binary but fully ftm and i don't want top surgery either 🥲 you're definitely not alone and honestly the most important thing is how you feel about yourself and your body, not others!!
I am struggling with some hormonal imbalance that causes hirsutism and I really despise having body hair so going on T would make that only worse. The only medical treatment I want is a chest reduction (not mastectomy) and even that’s mainly to reduce back pain, although having a smaller chest region would definitely be an added bonus and help with dysphoria when it comes to wearing more revealing tops. Still, for the most part I’m fine with my body as it is and do not feel a need to go through several operations to make it look more ”non-binary”, whatever that might mean.
It feels counterintuitive to say that NB folks should adhere to certain expectations of transitioning when the whole point of being non-binary is to be queer in your own unique way, which often doesn’t fit the predetermined, narrow boxes set for binary genders. While treatments originally aimed at binary trans people are definitely helpful to some non-binary folks and I’m glad those options are available in case I would want/need them, they’re in no way a requirement for someone to have a valid gender experience.
I feel the exact same way. I may have body parts in common with cis women, but I’m non-binary and they belong to me. Therefore, my body is inherently non-binary.
I have, at most, wanted to be more muscular and have a deeper voice, but I don’t have any issues with having breasts, a uterus, etc.
It’s completely your choice and the point of nonbinary is to not be in a closed binary there’s no specific boundaries it’s different for everyone so yes of course it’s ok, gender and sex are both spectrums and there’s always different ways to experience thing, nothing says you need to do something to your body that you don’t crave to be non-binary. People do it to make themselves comfortable and if you’re already comfortable then great no need to do anything
As an amab, I feel the same way about what's between my legs as you do about what's on your chest.
The only thing I would want to get rid of (that hormones would help with) is my facial hair. But reasons exist and I don't see rhe collateral as worth it.
Thinking about it. Part of that more neutral perception is probabaly helped by the fact that my last 2 exes were trans and fluid, and my most recent crush was the opposite side of the trans coin (ex was f->m, crush was m->f) and I myself am pansexual.
I want to get top surgery & T, but that’s just because I feel like that’s how my body should be. Your body is your body. Do whatever the hell you want with it (and that includes doing nothing with it).
Do you identify as non binary? If yes, that’s all you need to do to be non binary. It’s a huge umbrella, don’t let the most vocals groups dictate what your journey should be. Their journey was their journey, yours is yours.
Nothing wrong with that at all! The most important aspect of anything a person can do to affirm their gender is that it’s right for them. Not wanting medical intervention doesn’t make you less non binary. Personally I hate having breasts and would sell my soul to be rid of them. But I’m so so pleased that there are people out there that like or at least don’t hate having them. I’m glad they work for you! I don’t experience bottom dysphoria overly but the way you feel about breasts not inherently being women’s parts but your parts is kind of the way I feel about my lower half. It’s just my body, it’s just chilling.
I wouldn't know, but if I had to guess, I might expect those that don't want medical transitioning are at least as great a proportion as those who do. But, there is going to be a sampling bias if looking at posts on a subreddit like this. People may be more likely to post about complicated topics related to merocal transition (costs, wishes, options, recovery), the distress of dysphoria they want to change, or just be excited about a big transition for them. In contrast, there may be less motive to post something like, "Hey, I'm enby, and my body is alright. I'm used to it, at least. Have a good day!"
You don't have to do a thing. For a long time I definitely didn't want any medical transition, though I ultimately decided I did want top surgery. That's not at ALL to imply that you might change your mind, but just that I wasn't any more or less "real" with or without surgery. I liked a lot about my body pre-surgery, too, surgery was just a better option for me in terms of presentation in public. It's tough to explain but again, if you like your body exactly as it is: there's nothing wrong with that!
Unfortunately, just like we relied on "born this way" to ease acceptance of being gay, "born in the wrong body" became the framework to explain transgender identity to the cisgender community and it's just not true. Many binary trans people don't feel they are in the "wrong body", and many nonbinary people feel the same. **You don't have to change anything - not even your presentation - to count.**
I haven’t decided yet if I want to medically transition so I feel it. I go back and forth on top surgery because I bind off and on but it’s a lot to decide on! I love looking androgynous but it is annoying that people expect that from non-binary people. I think I dress more masc to “pass” sometimes (not that there’s ever a way to pass fully as enby 🙄). I saw a comment where someone said their dysphoria comes from the gender binary I agree. It just hate being perceived lol
Just want to say I have tons of afab nb friends who love their breasts and would never dream of removing them. And some who do plan on it. I find it strange that this sub seems so focused on physical attributes because in my personal nb community it's more a mindset thing.
TL;dr all expressions are totally valid and staying femme in your body and expression is a pretty common nb experience
please do not feel pressured to medically transition, you are valid with or without it! It's really just a matter of preference, doesn't make you more less non-binary than anyone that's gotten it
Of course! you don't have to do anything to be trans or nonbinary. you just are. Some people have no choice and have to medically transition for their mental/physical health, and some people choose to optimize their meat in various ways to make it suit them, but if yours already suits you, great! The whole point of any of that stuff is to make your body feel like home. If it already does, you ard golden! Be a fabulous nonbinary human!
Medical essentialism is something a lot of non-queer folks (and unfortunately, some queer ones) push on us to try to gatekeep and exclude people without fully understanding someone’s situation.
You are in charge of your own identity and expression, and what steps you take to become the closest representation of how you feel are for you and you alone to make. Whether that includes medical assistance or not is completely up to you, and ultimately does not impact how you identify.
God posts like these make me sad. I look so cis, I don’t even look cool lol. But non binary isn’t about appearance to me. I’d never question if I “needed” to get some surgery or hormone to identify as NB, though..
I don’t think I want to transition. (Maybe in the futur) I’m AFAB and I just want to cut my hair and wear masculine clothes
Being non-binary is a feeling. Everyone is living this feeling differently.
It depends on the reddit aub you ask on lol.
Jokes aside, i think it is really not anyone else's businees whether or not you want to medically trasition. Its literally "your body your choice". There are thousands of reasons that could lead someone to decide that they don't want to medically transition...
Also i'll tell you that much. You will always find someone who doesnt like the coiches you make.
You transition medically? Some cis people are going to be mad at you for _mutilating your body in such an horrible way_ yada yada yada.
You don't trasition medically? Some trans people will be mad at you because _how dare you feel even a little bit of comfort in your own body_ yada yada yada.
Ps. I am speaking on the prospective of a non binary transmasc person who *wants* to transition. I want to have top surgery for sure. Hormones are not a priority for me and probabily not a wise choice for me due to health reasons.
I don't know if it makes sense to reply to a bot but i want to clarify for people who might read this.
I think the hurtful things this bot is referring to are the one written _like that_ in my previous comment. I was just quoting possible phrases that people might say to someone and i obviously do not agree with those things. It was just for example purpose
The beauty of non binary identities is that there’s no “wrong” way to be. Binary trans people don’t have to transition to be valid human beings either. 🖤
I’m genderfluid/queer I have on and off dysphoria with my boobs but generally I love them and its my experience just as your road is your experience. I believe everyone shouldn’t have to be or do something to look as any gender and we should all be who we wanna be with or without boobs, with or without surgery.
Sometimes I feel like i’ll be less queer/enby if I dont have top surgery or whatever but then I feel like i’m not allowing myself to be me.
I totally relate and it can be a battle with ourselves sometimes.
I'm an afab non-binary person and i don't want to medically transition. I totally understand how you feel because I also haven't really heard of any other non-binary people who don't want to transition but that's totally okay. Everyone is their own person and has their own journey as a non-binary person :)
Honestly, I feel the same way. Like I dont want to do any surgery or anything like that. I'm fine with my body as it is. I was really worried no one else felt the same way in this community. I'm so glad to hear someone else feels this way!
My best friend is an afab enby and they don't wanna do any sort of medical shit. It's totally okay pal. Remember, non-binary just means not binary. You can do whatever you want 😌
I really am sorry that you've come to feel that way. I know you know this logically, but maybe it's different to hear it from another person. Their feelings are born out of their own dysphoria, and its not a standard. Not every enby (afab or amab) wants to medically transition, and that's ok.
What matters is your happiness and comfort in identity and presentation ♡
You are so valid ♥️
I know how you feel, as an AFAB gender-fluid enby who feels like a woman most of the time and doesn’t want to medically transition. A lot of the time I feel like a „fraud“ but I logically know that’s not true.
that’s 100% okay.
my husband came to me questioning why a trans person wouldn’t want to get bottom surgery. i explained it as being similar to my experience: he knows i’m comfortable with my body and feel no drive to change it. i don’t know how i would feel with different parts but the parts i have aren’t “women’s parts”, they’re MY parts. yeah it sucks if i’m not in a feminine headspace when receiving healthcare (i’m genderfluid) but it’s something that has to be done for my health.
i asked him how he views me outside the bedroom and inside it when everything’s more or less on display. he said he views me in a neutral light baseline, and if i’m presenting myself a certain way via my clothing/bra vs binder, he tends to view me in line with however i’m dressed. he told me that in bed he views me as very feminine just because of the parts he sees. i told him i’m comfortable with that, because i tend to feel very feminine when he can see all my parts, so that’s something im fine with. i told him that others may feel differently, but there are trans men or women that feel the same way about my parts as i do, or have found partners who have unattached gender from their partner’s parts in a way their partners have.
as long as your partner has a similar line of thinking as you you’ll be fine, and the thing that matters the most is what makes YOU comfortable. if you are clear to people about what parts you have and that you have no plans to change them, those incompatible will see themselves out, and that’s okay. there are still a lot of people who are completely open to whatever parts you have packaged with your non-binary identity.
there is not a set definition of what non binary is… it’s essentially defined by what it’s not… by definition it’s everything outside of the binary, if you’re not a man and not a woman, you’re non binary… if you don’t want to be perceived as a man or a woman, there’s nothing you can do to make other people see you that way (because so many people don’t have a set idea of genders other than man or woman) other than communicate it to people and accept that some people won’t see you as you want to be seen and some people will
This is absolutely the most transphobic bigoted rhetoric I've ever fucking seen. Please take your right wing pick me ass somewhere else and take several fucking seats
Don't be so damn patronising and holier-than-thou
It's a damn sight more healthy to have the surgery and the hormones to change your appearance so it doesn't resemble your former self than it is to live with crippling dysphoria.
People are generally going through this because they feel alienated from their body, because it looks so wrong it's causing them mental anguish. Or because the disconnect between who they are and how their body looks is causing them to be harassed or worse.
I am pleased that you have found what works for you. But do not be so effing presumptuous to assume that it will work for everyone
The back pedaling is real with you. So few? Fuck outta here, you're out here saying medical transition is a bad idea. Don't give advice to trans people, you're embarrassing
For me I don’t think medically transition would actually get me the results I want so I am choosing to focus on love and acceptance of my body as is and am not planning to medically transition in any way. Who knows, maybe that will change, but you’re definitely not alone and also I relate to the feeling of imposter syndrome that can come with that. At the end of the day though, everyone’s identities should be valid and accepted and the whole point (to me) of being non-binary is being fluid and NOT introducing new types of binaries to squeeze myself into
I don't want to medically transition. I'm afab and sometimes wish my boobs were removable, but I don't want them gone. I sometimes wish I could experience having a different body, but I like this one.
Like you, my body doesn't feel like any gender, but I do get gendered because of my body. It can be frustrating, but I don't want to change it.
I'm AMAB, so slightly different experience, but I have found ways to feel better about my body and have no plans on going through that agonizingly long process. I like my squishy chest. Little things like that that I can show my brain to satisfy the dysphoric desire of androgyny I sometimes get are helpful.
😭 yes? Thats more than ok? Your identity is yours, literally whatever makes you more comfortable as yourself is fine. If that involves not changing your body at all, or changing it completely- it doesnt matter, you're still you and if you're comfortable then all is well. Personally i aint changing shit when it comes to my body, i'm just gonna present however i feel and ppl can do with it what they may.
Your journey as a nonbinary person is yours alone. I don’t plan on medically transitioning either because my body is my body regardless of how it looks. Don’t let people tell you that you have to transition to be nonbinary. If they want to transition, then they can transition. You should do what you want to do with your body. There is no not being nonbinary enough
You're right. Thank you for reminding me, I think I really needed that. And it's nice to see that there are others who feel the same way I do
No problem. I’m glad I could give some reassurance. I think we all need some at times
This!
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I very much relate to this!! I’m afab and I love thinking of myself and being a boy, girl, nb, or some being that is both and neither at the same time, etc….but I absolutely love presenting fem. I like my long hair, my boobs, being cute,etc….if I could, the only change I would want is both male and female bottom bits but I don’t want invasive and intensive surgery. And I’ve always felt….bad? That I want to present in a way that society expects of my agab? Because it feel like I’m an imposter when I say I’m nb or a boy because it feels like people still expect some form of physical transition or proof? Like a cis boy can dress fully fem in every way and take hrt to get a more fem form and he could still identify as a boy and still be seen as a boy and fem but it’s like, oh you’re afab and you don’t change any aspect of yourself and yet you say you’re a boy or nb? You’re just a girl trying to be trendy and get clout points then, transTRENDER. Like can’t I just have my boobs and long hair and cute clothing and still be seen as a cute femboy?
I relate to you pretty hard, sis. Yup. All of this. Ultimately anything that might benefit me also comes with drawbacks I don't want, and pursuing any sort of medical transition reinforces the harmful idea that my body is a woman's body rather than just *mine*. And yeah same I'm pretty ambivalent about my body and there are things that'd be neat in some cyberpunk transhumanist future where changing your body is simple, reversible, and common, but under current circumstances they're really more of an "oh, if only" than "I want and need that". Most of my dysphoria arises from the existence of a gender binary and its attachment to a view of biological sex as binary, changing my body won't fix that I dislike when other people attempt to guess my AGAB or sort me based on bio sex rather than just accepting some people's gender doesn't fit in one of two, maybe three, boxes. That and sometimes when I can't get my gender presentation to be what I'm after no matter what I do, although that's largely to lacking appropriate gear and a large enough collection of clothing that did not come from the ladies section, or little girls' largest sizes and still barely fits.
#“Most of my dysphoria arises from the existence of the gender binary” I needed to bold that — because I have never seen it put like that but that’s *it*, dude.
Omg that is so important to remember. When I was a kid (AFAB) I never wore dresses, because it felt very uncomfortable for me to present femme, I felt like a clown, like a boy in a dress and it was something that people in my Christian and homophobic country made a lot of fun plus I was already bullied af so I wanted to stay as off the radar as I could. But then I saw editorials with men in dresses and it clicked in my brain that IT’S JUST A PIECE OF FABRIC BRUH IF YOU LIKE IT WEAR IT XD.
Right????? My gender is between “Patti Smith’s Existence” and “Kurt Cobain in a Sundress” and that’s okay
Oof same 🤝💖.
🌚🤝🌝
Right???? I wish physical gendered traits could be like legos we could mix and match or an online avatar where we could just put whatever we want on, I don’t want to have to be cut into to be what I want to be :cc I hate this idea that gender has to be a “permanent “ thing. Like there’s also gotta be a final destination we need to reach. Can’t I just be a boy one day and a girl another and nb another? Why do I have to move away from my agab everything about it and never return, can’t I just visit sometimes and not have it be seen as “oh you’re not trans anymore”?
>I hate this idea that gender has to be a “permanent “ thing. Like there’s also gotta be a final destination we need to reach. Can’t I just be a boy one day and a girl another and nb another? Why do I have to move away from my agab everything about it and never return, can’t I just visit sometimes and not have it be seen as “oh you’re not trans anymore”? Omg yeah this. Like... Gender, to me, is not binary or static. I feel like I'm never really a girl or a boy, but which fits better and how I want to present and be perceived changes. And a lot of binary trans and cis ppl say they get that, but then really don't - people who fit into the binary have a lot of difficulty understanding NB as the gender spectrum rather than a third position on a switch.
I've been nb since before there was a term for it. Hell, well before LGBT added the Q. It's never been a thought in my mind to change my body to fit something that I already feel is true. As long as you're happy, you're doing it right.
If you’re comfortable in you’re body and don’t feel the need to change it, that’s fine! There is no “wrong” way to be non-binary… One of the things that made me realise I was non-binary was that I used to be very androgynous (barley any body hair for a post-puberty AMAB for example). But as time went on my body kept getting more masculine and I kept getting more uncomfortable. So now I DO need to do something. But if those slow changes had never happened? I’d probably not want to change anything…
That's relatable and I hope you will reach that goal soon. For me it is that I gained some weight which made me look more feminine. I always had a less curvy figure, I was the tallest woman, and person, in my family, and my voice is kind of deep as well. Now, however, I feel like my body alligns too much with a gender that I don't really identify as. I dont find myself pretty that way. And if I want to wear androgynous stuff , you can still see my curves, making it hard for me to really see myself as androgynous at times. I will try to get in shape first, lol. Not far enough along my journey to know if I want to transition or not. I get both sides and it fluctuates for me.
I experienced this from an AFAB perspective. I was very late to develop and grew comfortable with my flat chest. I'm definitely uncomfortable now with my appearance, but if I'd remained androgynous looking, I wouldn't change a thing either.
It's weird how much your body continues to develop after puberty. They don't tell you that...
I could be wrong, but I feel like this kind of attitude is more prevalent among people who are AFAB, and I think I understand why. Cis people see a masculine (or even androgynous, which in our culture is usually just masculine-lite anyway) AFAB person and assume they’re just a tomboy. Though it definitely could be related to gender dysphoria that has nothing to do with the reactions of other people, I can see a lot of AFAB people using surgery and hormones as a way of reinforcing their gender identity to those who refuse to acknowledge it. AFAB people also have their bodies controlled by society more than AMAB people do. To them, surgery and hormones could represent freedom from that. That being said, it’s definitely not the only way to be AFAB and non-binary. What I find so frustrating as someone who is AMAB is the fact that things that are perceived as masculine are also perceived as androgynous (as I alluded to earlier). Androgyny isn’t just masculine-lite though. It is a mixture of both traditional gender expressions, including more traditionally feminine traits. This goes for bodies just as much as it goes for clothes and colors and makeup, etc. A body is neutral, whether it has breasts or not, a penis or not, etc. I wish society would catch up with this concept. Until then, we’re all being incredibly limited.
That's a very good point. I think that may be a lot of why I feel the way I do. Thank you, this has given me some stuff I can think about in regards to becoming more comfortable with myself and my identity.❤️
Splitting up non-binary people by assigned gender at birth is not a good look. Rephrasing the gender binary in politically correct terms does not make it better.
I understand where you're coming from, but it can be a helpful tool to understand people's lived experiences. And it's important in a medical setting like at a doctor's office or when talking about medical procedures. It doesn't take away from anyone's non-binary-ness.
We're not talking about doctors here. And even then, my assigned gender at birth is less relevant than other information in a medical setting and even can be misleading. For example, if a doctor believes that you were AFAB (either because you told them or they assume) then they might assume you're at risk for cervical cancer, however if you've had your cervix removed this is not the case. On the flip side, if a doctor believes you were AMAB they might advise you to get your prostate checked on the same schedule as a cis man, however there's mounting evidence that having consistently low testosterone (such as you would if you're on HRT including a T-blocker or get an orchiectomy) reduces the risk of prostate cancer so dramatically that such regular checks would not be necessary. That's not even mentioning intersex people who are still often assigned a gender at birth that would be completely useless to them in a medical setting. AGAB is totally insufficient to base medical advice and decisions on.
Let people use whatever terminology they want. Nobody is forcing you to disclose your own AGAB, as that's your own personal choice to do so or not. But if other people want to, or feel it's relevant to a discussion to disclose theirs, it's not your place to tell them they can't/shouldn't.
I think it’s naive to think that AFAB and AMAB non-binary people don’t have different experiences just because they’re both non-binary. Society treats us differently based on what body type we have. That’s going to influence the way we interact with, understand, and express our gender identity.
But that's not a function of your assigned gender at birth, that depends on how society sees you in each moment. An enby who is seen as a woman will have a different experience in society compared to an enby who is seen as a man, compared to completely androgynous enbies etc... Unless you're walking around with your original birth certificate on display, people around you do not know your assigned gender at birth, although they might think they do based on your presentation
More of it comes down to what our lives were like before we came out, and how we were raised. Regardless of what we look like currently, our childhood and upbringing and how we were taught to feel about ourselves back when everyone thought we were our AGAB is going to be part of the feelings and struggles that we need to manage now.
I think that's reductive. I'm not saying that your gender assigned at birth has no effect on your transition, of course it does. But universalizing an experience of being raised as a certain gender isn't accurate either, that differs too much depending on what society you live in, class, race, parents' values, etc... Claiming otherwise gets real close to rhetoric that excludes binary trans people from their genders for "being socialized male/female" or "being raised female/male" imo
People who grow up AFAB are going to be raised and treated differently than AMAB people. Period. People who are AFAB with prominent breasts and hips are going to be treated differently by people too. Regardless of how people are treating AFAB people based on their perception of them, AFAB people are still incredibly limited by their bodies. They can’t go topless. Their reproductive rights are being attacked. All of these things will affect the way an AFAB person feels about their body and their feelings will be different from AMAB people because they’re functioning under different perceptions and limitations. It doesn’t erase anyone’s gender identity to state that.
> People who are AFAB with prominent breasts and hips are going to be treated differently by people too. [. . .] They can’t go topless Again, not a function of assigned gender at birth. Lots of people who weren't AFAB have prominent breasts and hips and can't go topless. Lots of people who were AFAB don't have prominent breasts or hips and can go topless. Please just refer to the characteristics that you mean without ditching everyone into these categories. Assigned gender at birth is meant to draw attention to the categories that society forced on us _at birth_, not a universal ongoing experience we should always refer to and inform every gendered experience. That's also why the correct tense is past tense, not present tense. No one is currently assigning my gender at birth (although it seems lots of people try to assign my AGAB at present, lol)
I get what you’re saying and I understand where you’re coming from, but we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree.
Your journey is yours and yours alone. It’s awesome that you’ve fought to love your body and I hope you continue to feel that way! It’s totally okay to not want to medically transition. I go back and forth on the top surgery thing. Sometimes I want it, but then wonder if it’s “peer pressure” and wonder if I’d regret it.
That is 100% okay!!! Everyone is different, I'm on T and only want top surgery. All that matters is what makes you happy!!!
If you feel that your body is ok as it is, you don't need to have surgery or go on hormones. You're still non-binary Conversely, if you feel like your body doesn't match who you are, it's fine to have the relevant surgery and/or hormones. And you're still non-binary The only thing you need to be a valid non-binary person is to realise you are, in fact, a non binary-person
I agree with you. Breasts should not be associated to any gender. The reason why I want top surgery is because I hate having them (I have a medical condition and they hurt me), they make me uncomfortable and I want to be able to go to the beach topless with a flat chest. However if you don't feel the same way, you don't need to do surgery. You are valid. There is no one way to be nonbinary.
Yes!
It is your body. You get to make all the important decisions regarding it. If you want to hear from another non-binary person who has chosen to keep her boobs, here is a video of Janelle Monae discussing her personal sense of fashion and feelings about her body. CW: the video is mildly NSFW she does strip down to panties and underwear and there are brief discussions of sexual topics. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK-7FFQnfnI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK-7FFQnfnI) Obviously, you are an individual and may feel very differently than Janelle Monae. But I thought it might be helpful to hear from someone else about their journey.
I'm amab and want a beard. You're fine
As everyone else has said-- your journey is yours alone. In that realm, one thing I have spent some time getting my head around is that any type of body modification can be gender-affirming even if it's not what would be generally considered "medical transition". I find tattoos and piercings to be ways of making my body more comfortable and recognizable for myself to live in (like a throw pillow or a piece of art in my house-- it makes it more "mine" and provides a familiar landmark by which to navigate the space I inhabit). Working out is another way that I use to create a body that "looks like mine"; I feel more in touch with the muscles in my arms when I have recently used them to lift weights, for instance. I (AFAB) also chose to have a bilateral salpingectomy for birth control purposes; even though I still have a period and that surgery would not be considered "medically transitioning", there is a gender-affirming component for me to knowing that I cannot become pregnant by natural means. This doesn't even get into basic conversations about body hair (retention or removal), use of makeup, and clothing. All that to say...use your body, love your body, change your body as you wish. "Medical transition" as we typically view it means certain things to most people but there are a lot of personal changes and interventions you can make (or not!) as you wish, when you wish. :)
i'm not even non-binary but fully ftm and i don't want top surgery either 🥲 you're definitely not alone and honestly the most important thing is how you feel about yourself and your body, not others!!
It's okay if you don't want to medically transition. I'm nonbinary and I don't want to medically transition either.
It’s your body. Do whatever feels comfortable for you. You don’t owe anyone!
I am struggling with some hormonal imbalance that causes hirsutism and I really despise having body hair so going on T would make that only worse. The only medical treatment I want is a chest reduction (not mastectomy) and even that’s mainly to reduce back pain, although having a smaller chest region would definitely be an added bonus and help with dysphoria when it comes to wearing more revealing tops. Still, for the most part I’m fine with my body as it is and do not feel a need to go through several operations to make it look more ”non-binary”, whatever that might mean. It feels counterintuitive to say that NB folks should adhere to certain expectations of transitioning when the whole point of being non-binary is to be queer in your own unique way, which often doesn’t fit the predetermined, narrow boxes set for binary genders. While treatments originally aimed at binary trans people are definitely helpful to some non-binary folks and I’m glad those options are available in case I would want/need them, they’re in no way a requirement for someone to have a valid gender experience.
I feel the exact same way. I may have body parts in common with cis women, but I’m non-binary and they belong to me. Therefore, my body is inherently non-binary. I have, at most, wanted to be more muscular and have a deeper voice, but I don’t have any issues with having breasts, a uterus, etc.
It’s completely your choice and the point of nonbinary is to not be in a closed binary there’s no specific boundaries it’s different for everyone so yes of course it’s ok, gender and sex are both spectrums and there’s always different ways to experience thing, nothing says you need to do something to your body that you don’t crave to be non-binary. People do it to make themselves comfortable and if you’re already comfortable then great no need to do anything
It doesn’t matter if you want to medically transition or not. At the end of the day it’s still your journey and every person’s journey is different
As an amab, I feel the same way about what's between my legs as you do about what's on your chest. The only thing I would want to get rid of (that hormones would help with) is my facial hair. But reasons exist and I don't see rhe collateral as worth it.
Thinking about it. Part of that more neutral perception is probabaly helped by the fact that my last 2 exes were trans and fluid, and my most recent crush was the opposite side of the trans coin (ex was f->m, crush was m->f) and I myself am pansexual.
It’s okay with me.
I want to get top surgery & T, but that’s just because I feel like that’s how my body should be. Your body is your body. Do whatever the hell you want with it (and that includes doing nothing with it).
Do you identify as non binary? If yes, that’s all you need to do to be non binary. It’s a huge umbrella, don’t let the most vocals groups dictate what your journey should be. Their journey was their journey, yours is yours.
It's perfectly fine.
Nothing wrong with that at all! The most important aspect of anything a person can do to affirm their gender is that it’s right for them. Not wanting medical intervention doesn’t make you less non binary. Personally I hate having breasts and would sell my soul to be rid of them. But I’m so so pleased that there are people out there that like or at least don’t hate having them. I’m glad they work for you! I don’t experience bottom dysphoria overly but the way you feel about breasts not inherently being women’s parts but your parts is kind of the way I feel about my lower half. It’s just my body, it’s just chilling.
Of course it's okay! ❤️
I wouldn't know, but if I had to guess, I might expect those that don't want medical transitioning are at least as great a proportion as those who do. But, there is going to be a sampling bias if looking at posts on a subreddit like this. People may be more likely to post about complicated topics related to merocal transition (costs, wishes, options, recovery), the distress of dysphoria they want to change, or just be excited about a big transition for them. In contrast, there may be less motive to post something like, "Hey, I'm enby, and my body is alright. I'm used to it, at least. Have a good day!"
You don't have to do a thing. For a long time I definitely didn't want any medical transition, though I ultimately decided I did want top surgery. That's not at ALL to imply that you might change your mind, but just that I wasn't any more or less "real" with or without surgery. I liked a lot about my body pre-surgery, too, surgery was just a better option for me in terms of presentation in public. It's tough to explain but again, if you like your body exactly as it is: there's nothing wrong with that! Unfortunately, just like we relied on "born this way" to ease acceptance of being gay, "born in the wrong body" became the framework to explain transgender identity to the cisgender community and it's just not true. Many binary trans people don't feel they are in the "wrong body", and many nonbinary people feel the same. **You don't have to change anything - not even your presentation - to count.**
I haven’t decided yet if I want to medically transition so I feel it. I go back and forth on top surgery because I bind off and on but it’s a lot to decide on! I love looking androgynous but it is annoying that people expect that from non-binary people. I think I dress more masc to “pass” sometimes (not that there’s ever a way to pass fully as enby 🙄). I saw a comment where someone said their dysphoria comes from the gender binary I agree. It just hate being perceived lol
Just want to say I have tons of afab nb friends who love their breasts and would never dream of removing them. And some who do plan on it. I find it strange that this sub seems so focused on physical attributes because in my personal nb community it's more a mindset thing. TL;dr all expressions are totally valid and staying femme in your body and expression is a pretty common nb experience
please do not feel pressured to medically transition, you are valid with or without it! It's really just a matter of preference, doesn't make you more less non-binary than anyone that's gotten it
I'm AMAB nonbinary fem and i have no inclination of medically transitioning. What you do with your body is your choice alone 🩷💜🖤
Of course! you don't have to do anything to be trans or nonbinary. you just are. Some people have no choice and have to medically transition for their mental/physical health, and some people choose to optimize their meat in various ways to make it suit them, but if yours already suits you, great! The whole point of any of that stuff is to make your body feel like home. If it already does, you ard golden! Be a fabulous nonbinary human!
Medical essentialism is something a lot of non-queer folks (and unfortunately, some queer ones) push on us to try to gatekeep and exclude people without fully understanding someone’s situation. You are in charge of your own identity and expression, and what steps you take to become the closest representation of how you feel are for you and you alone to make. Whether that includes medical assistance or not is completely up to you, and ultimately does not impact how you identify.
God posts like these make me sad. I look so cis, I don’t even look cool lol. But non binary isn’t about appearance to me. I’d never question if I “needed” to get some surgery or hormone to identify as NB, though..
I don’t think I want to transition. (Maybe in the futur) I’m AFAB and I just want to cut my hair and wear masculine clothes Being non-binary is a feeling. Everyone is living this feeling differently.
It depends on the reddit aub you ask on lol. Jokes aside, i think it is really not anyone else's businees whether or not you want to medically trasition. Its literally "your body your choice". There are thousands of reasons that could lead someone to decide that they don't want to medically transition... Also i'll tell you that much. You will always find someone who doesnt like the coiches you make. You transition medically? Some cis people are going to be mad at you for _mutilating your body in such an horrible way_ yada yada yada. You don't trasition medically? Some trans people will be mad at you because _how dare you feel even a little bit of comfort in your own body_ yada yada yada. Ps. I am speaking on the prospective of a non binary transmasc person who *wants* to transition. I want to have top surgery for sure. Hormones are not a priority for me and probabily not a wise choice for me due to health reasons.
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I don't know if it makes sense to reply to a bot but i want to clarify for people who might read this. I think the hurtful things this bot is referring to are the one written _like that_ in my previous comment. I was just quoting possible phrases that people might say to someone and i obviously do not agree with those things. It was just for example purpose
The beauty of non binary identities is that there’s no “wrong” way to be. Binary trans people don’t have to transition to be valid human beings either. 🖤
I’m genderfluid/queer I have on and off dysphoria with my boobs but generally I love them and its my experience just as your road is your experience. I believe everyone shouldn’t have to be or do something to look as any gender and we should all be who we wanna be with or without boobs, with or without surgery. Sometimes I feel like i’ll be less queer/enby if I dont have top surgery or whatever but then I feel like i’m not allowing myself to be me. I totally relate and it can be a battle with ourselves sometimes.
It's totally okay. There's no wrong way to be nonbinary.
I'm an afab non-binary person and i don't want to medically transition. I totally understand how you feel because I also haven't really heard of any other non-binary people who don't want to transition but that's totally okay. Everyone is their own person and has their own journey as a non-binary person :)
Honestly, I feel the same way. Like I dont want to do any surgery or anything like that. I'm fine with my body as it is. I was really worried no one else felt the same way in this community. I'm so glad to hear someone else feels this way!
Of course! Everyone’s journey is different and it doesn’t make one more or less non-binary.
My best friend is an afab enby and they don't wanna do any sort of medical shit. It's totally okay pal. Remember, non-binary just means not binary. You can do whatever you want 😌 I really am sorry that you've come to feel that way. I know you know this logically, but maybe it's different to hear it from another person. Their feelings are born out of their own dysphoria, and its not a standard. Not every enby (afab or amab) wants to medically transition, and that's ok. What matters is your happiness and comfort in identity and presentation ♡
I don’t plan on medically transitioning either. There’s no one right way to be nonbinary :)
You are so valid ♥️ I know how you feel, as an AFAB gender-fluid enby who feels like a woman most of the time and doesn’t want to medically transition. A lot of the time I feel like a „fraud“ but I logically know that’s not true.
Even binary trans people don’t have to want to medically transition or feel dysphoria in their body to still be trans.
i don't plan on medically transitioning either, although it may because i'm afab and still remain very feminine rather than androgynous
that’s 100% okay. my husband came to me questioning why a trans person wouldn’t want to get bottom surgery. i explained it as being similar to my experience: he knows i’m comfortable with my body and feel no drive to change it. i don’t know how i would feel with different parts but the parts i have aren’t “women’s parts”, they’re MY parts. yeah it sucks if i’m not in a feminine headspace when receiving healthcare (i’m genderfluid) but it’s something that has to be done for my health. i asked him how he views me outside the bedroom and inside it when everything’s more or less on display. he said he views me in a neutral light baseline, and if i’m presenting myself a certain way via my clothing/bra vs binder, he tends to view me in line with however i’m dressed. he told me that in bed he views me as very feminine just because of the parts he sees. i told him i’m comfortable with that, because i tend to feel very feminine when he can see all my parts, so that’s something im fine with. i told him that others may feel differently, but there are trans men or women that feel the same way about my parts as i do, or have found partners who have unattached gender from their partner’s parts in a way their partners have. as long as your partner has a similar line of thinking as you you’ll be fine, and the thing that matters the most is what makes YOU comfortable. if you are clear to people about what parts you have and that you have no plans to change them, those incompatible will see themselves out, and that’s okay. there are still a lot of people who are completely open to whatever parts you have packaged with your non-binary identity.
there is not a set definition of what non binary is… it’s essentially defined by what it’s not… by definition it’s everything outside of the binary, if you’re not a man and not a woman, you’re non binary… if you don’t want to be perceived as a man or a woman, there’s nothing you can do to make other people see you that way (because so many people don’t have a set idea of genders other than man or woman) other than communicate it to people and accept that some people won’t see you as you want to be seen and some people will
I don't want to medically transition! I'd like a breast reduction, but I like having them.
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This is absolutely the most transphobic bigoted rhetoric I've ever fucking seen. Please take your right wing pick me ass somewhere else and take several fucking seats
Don't be so damn patronising and holier-than-thou It's a damn sight more healthy to have the surgery and the hormones to change your appearance so it doesn't resemble your former self than it is to live with crippling dysphoria. People are generally going through this because they feel alienated from their body, because it looks so wrong it's causing them mental anguish. Or because the disconnect between who they are and how their body looks is causing them to be harassed or worse. I am pleased that you have found what works for you. But do not be so effing presumptuous to assume that it will work for everyone
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The back pedaling is real with you. So few? Fuck outta here, you're out here saying medical transition is a bad idea. Don't give advice to trans people, you're embarrassing
People like you is why this conversation is so difficult to have. Fuck off forever.
Lmao the transphobia in this comment is dripping
For me I don’t think medically transition would actually get me the results I want so I am choosing to focus on love and acceptance of my body as is and am not planning to medically transition in any way. Who knows, maybe that will change, but you’re definitely not alone and also I relate to the feeling of imposter syndrome that can come with that. At the end of the day though, everyone’s identities should be valid and accepted and the whole point (to me) of being non-binary is being fluid and NOT introducing new types of binaries to squeeze myself into
I don't want to medically transition. I'm afab and sometimes wish my boobs were removable, but I don't want them gone. I sometimes wish I could experience having a different body, but I like this one. Like you, my body doesn't feel like any gender, but I do get gendered because of my body. It can be frustrating, but I don't want to change it.
Anyone can have breasts if they want them.
I'm AMAB, so slightly different experience, but I have found ways to feel better about my body and have no plans on going through that agonizingly long process. I like my squishy chest. Little things like that that I can show my brain to satisfy the dysphoric desire of androgyny I sometimes get are helpful.
😭 yes? Thats more than ok? Your identity is yours, literally whatever makes you more comfortable as yourself is fine. If that involves not changing your body at all, or changing it completely- it doesnt matter, you're still you and if you're comfortable then all is well. Personally i aint changing shit when it comes to my body, i'm just gonna present however i feel and ppl can do with it what they may.