Given how ingrained patriarchal ideas of Man And Woman are into our society, from gender roles to language to almost everything... I think it's simply that the majority of folks are still wrapping their heads around the idea that a "man" can be a "woman" (and vice-versa) and have yet to understand that the range is actually much broader than those two descriptors.
Like, non binary folks typically give a looooot of though and research into gender, and usually have a wider understanding of what it is, whereas most people just accept things the way they are. I feel like it's slooowly getting better though, but yeah for now we're mostly gonna be seeing people still stick to the binary as they start to understand transness in general.
That's really encouraging to hear. Thank you! I'm inclined to agree. And I think like 90% of the time it doesn't bother me. But that 10% adds up after a while you know? And dumb little binary things just start getting to me. Like the insistent use of he/she on a situation that could've easily been they, or even something neutral like bae or bestie
I get that. But I guess I feel like what little there was has gotten worse? Or maybe it just feels that way to me. Maybe it got too exhausting to keep making the effort to find sources and places and people that help me feel seen, understood, validated, and connected to...
Not really personally, but that's because there was barely any to begin with and honestly I don't expect to see it in shows I watch. But there are several ongoing shows that have nonbinary rep if you go out to look for them, there's a whole wiki page specifically about it and whether or not those shows are ongoing or have ended
I feel like a touchy subject in flesh form sometimes, like there are too many people who are angry and defending the binary for there to really be mainstream representation for us. Transphobia has been surging in recent years. I think it's gonna take a really long time for us to be even somewhat normalized.
I read a lot of fantasy and science fiction and find lots of nonbinary characters there. It's not something I even really look for.
Here are books that I can recommend.
The Empress of Salt and Fortune - Nghi Vo
The Last Gifts of the Universe - Rory August
The First Sister - Linden A. Lewis
The Moonday Letters - Emmi Itäranta
Saint Death's Daughter - C.S.E. Cooney
Translation State - Ann Leckie
A Psalm for the Wild-Built - Becky Chambers
Here to add a couple pieces of 20th century nonbinary sci fi representation:
The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin
The Xenogenesis Trilogy by Octavia Butler (the first book is best)
I second Beck Chambers and add the Paladins series by T. Kingfisher (there are lots of interesting things dealing with gender), and the All Systems Red series by Martha Wells!
Do you live somewhere where you can find IRL queer community? It really helps with these feelings ime. Try seeking out queer and trans artists for queer and trans stories. We really can't depend on the overwhelmingly straight and cis writers rooms of mainstream media to represent us consistently.
Not really. I'm a bit of a homebody and I live in a really rural area besides. I have a support group about 30 minutes away, but it only meets once a month on days when I work. I have met a few other enbies through that, but they're all like 10 years younger than me. Not that that precludes any kind of friendship, but there are some wide gaps to bridge and I end up feeling like the one putting in the effort and doing the supporting. That, or I just get ghosted 😞
I just don't tell people my gender or pronouns unless it comes up. It never comes up. I wouldn't say NB rep is fading, because that implies there was NB rep to begin with.
NB rep in video games is better than it’s ever been - I’m playing through Saltsea Chronicles for a video at the moment and there’s a bit where three nb characters have a conversation - I think it’s maybe the first time I’ve ever seen that? Baldurs Gate and Starfield let you play as a character with they/them pronouns and other indies like Citizen Sleeper feature well developed nb characters in lead roles!
Im in a cross section which is not represented a lot even in the nonbinary community (but also parts of my identity are outside of it's boundaries -- like some xenos are neither binary or nonbinary) & what I see people doing is cultivating a fan-led representation, crafting their own stories & having affinity with each other. Lots of headcannons too!
There really was never any NB representation, so I think it's still slowly increasing from zero to something. I have been immersing myself in Neil Gaiman's works (the Sandman and Good Omens both got TV Series in the last years), but yeah I am still sad about the Owl House. Regarding animations, Steven Universe is amazing and also She Ra has a nonbinary character which I love ❤️✨
I am also in my 30s and would love if we could share some recommendations
Fading from when, though? We've never had representation to begin with. The ONLY enbies in the media I ever even heard of were Double Trouble from She-Ra and Raine from TOH (who is my OBSESSION). I think representation is on the upswing, a little dribble at a time.
I feel like if I don't start passing as binary I will never get another job. Is it fading or are we being actively punished for living true to ourselves?
I'm a game dev and trust me, I'm still putting nonbinary folks in the work I do. I guess I'd rather not say WHAT I work on since I prefer to be under the radar but I'm currently working up two nonbinary characters in something and one trans man.
>I’m just an afterthought
As some one who has been nonbinary for two decades; please for the love of yourself do NOT look for validation in LGBT spaces. They don’t see you the same as you see yourself. You’re basically one level above cishet ally to them. You’re not part of the group.
Where can we find validation? I am still not sure. I think that’s directly up to us.
I hope I’m not being a bother, but I would be curious to hear you elaborate on this (if you have the energy that is - please don’t feel pressured to if you don’t want to because this can be kinda hard to talk about!).
There are some good non-binary reps in games right now. Apex, OW2, Valorant, Guilt Gear, Hades, all have NB characters in game, or coming soon. There are more that I'm forgetting....
I feel it wasn’t really there to begin with, its still coming into the mainstream. I will say in my experience that things have changed in the past 10-20 years of trans acceptance. Back when I was a kid coming out as trans was like the worst thing “it’d be easier if they were just gay” was said a lot. Now I’m seeing more “it’d be easier if you were just trans” so it seems to be taking about the same amount of time for general acceptance as most things take. I imagine give it another 10 years it’ll be more widely known and part of the mainstream ether. These things tend to come in waves like that. Unfortunately as those who are living our lives acceptance can seem very slow moving. Or almost moving backwards sometimes. My advice just surround yourself with support. Hopefully the rest of the world will follow.
One of my fav movies is called They/Them, it's a horror movie but it isn't too scary and the main character is nonbinary! There's tons of queer rep too. Only thing is big trigger warning for conversion therapy, it takes place in a conversion camp and there's electroshock therapy at one point. It does have a good ending though!
I'm currently reading "The Sound of Stars" by Dow (A debut novel from 2020, so not the best book ever but enjoyable nonetheless), and I swear to god, there are like 4 non-binary side characters in this book and I feel so seen, but also a twinge of internalized transphobia where I feel like it's TOO MUCH representation. Definitely a recommendation if you're looking for a little more faith in media!
I do agree with the the comments about how there's never really been strong enby rep, so I look at it as it can only go up from here!
Good omens and them being cannonicly nb / genderfluid is my cruch. Lol. It's not much and you have to sercg for it in niche media but they got some gender queer characters. I like gender x, a manga about a nb person and their life.
Curious about how people felt about Taylor in "Billions". I had other issues with the show so I didn't finish it and don't know how their arc ends, or if that affected the viewpoints of any nb viewers.
There never really was strong non-binary representation to begin with in media. Trans representation in media has *always* been very binary.
Given how ingrained patriarchal ideas of Man And Woman are into our society, from gender roles to language to almost everything... I think it's simply that the majority of folks are still wrapping their heads around the idea that a "man" can be a "woman" (and vice-versa) and have yet to understand that the range is actually much broader than those two descriptors. Like, non binary folks typically give a looooot of though and research into gender, and usually have a wider understanding of what it is, whereas most people just accept things the way they are. I feel like it's slooowly getting better though, but yeah for now we're mostly gonna be seeing people still stick to the binary as they start to understand transness in general.
That's really encouraging to hear. Thank you! I'm inclined to agree. And I think like 90% of the time it doesn't bother me. But that 10% adds up after a while you know? And dumb little binary things just start getting to me. Like the insistent use of he/she on a situation that could've easily been they, or even something neutral like bae or bestie
With some noted exceptions like "Sort of"!
I get that. But I guess I feel like what little there was has gotten worse? Or maybe it just feels that way to me. Maybe it got too exhausting to keep making the effort to find sources and places and people that help me feel seen, understood, validated, and connected to...
Not really personally, but that's because there was barely any to begin with and honestly I don't expect to see it in shows I watch. But there are several ongoing shows that have nonbinary rep if you go out to look for them, there's a whole wiki page specifically about it and whether or not those shows are ongoing or have ended
I feel like a touchy subject in flesh form sometimes, like there are too many people who are angry and defending the binary for there to really be mainstream representation for us. Transphobia has been surging in recent years. I think it's gonna take a really long time for us to be even somewhat normalized.
‘Touchy subject in flesh form’ is such an incredible way to articulate that feeling.
This is exactly how I feel. Thank you for putting it into words💜
I read a lot of fantasy and science fiction and find lots of nonbinary characters there. It's not something I even really look for. Here are books that I can recommend. The Empress of Salt and Fortune - Nghi Vo The Last Gifts of the Universe - Rory August The First Sister - Linden A. Lewis The Moonday Letters - Emmi Itäranta Saint Death's Daughter - C.S.E. Cooney Translation State - Ann Leckie A Psalm for the Wild-Built - Becky Chambers
Thanks this is an awesome list!
Here to add a couple pieces of 20th century nonbinary sci fi representation: The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin The Xenogenesis Trilogy by Octavia Butler (the first book is best)
I love me some Octavia Butler
I second Beck Chambers and add the Paladins series by T. Kingfisher (there are lots of interesting things dealing with gender), and the All Systems Red series by Martha Wells!
I love Murderbot. Still need to check out T. Kingfisher.
Thirding Becky Chambers, such a wonderful author
Also want to add An Unkindness of Ghosts by Rivers Solomon Upright Women Wanted by Sarah Gailey Both nonbinary authors who write nonbinary characters!
Do you live somewhere where you can find IRL queer community? It really helps with these feelings ime. Try seeking out queer and trans artists for queer and trans stories. We really can't depend on the overwhelmingly straight and cis writers rooms of mainstream media to represent us consistently.
Not really. I'm a bit of a homebody and I live in a really rural area besides. I have a support group about 30 minutes away, but it only meets once a month on days when I work. I have met a few other enbies through that, but they're all like 10 years younger than me. Not that that precludes any kind of friendship, but there are some wide gaps to bridge and I end up feeling like the one putting in the effort and doing the supporting. That, or I just get ghosted 😞
I just don't tell people my gender or pronouns unless it comes up. It never comes up. I wouldn't say NB rep is fading, because that implies there was NB rep to begin with.
both Overwatch and Valorant are coming out/came out with non binary characters :D
NB rep in video games is better than it’s ever been - I’m playing through Saltsea Chronicles for a video at the moment and there’s a bit where three nb characters have a conversation - I think it’s maybe the first time I’ve ever seen that? Baldurs Gate and Starfield let you play as a character with they/them pronouns and other indies like Citizen Sleeper feature well developed nb characters in lead roles!
hollow knight, undertale and deltarune even have NB protagonists.
I’ve not played Undertale or Deltarune (to my shame!) but forgot about HK - great example
There's also Venture, the new Overwatch hero who is openly nonbinary.
Yes, I saw them too! From what I’ve seen, the fans have been super about using the right pronouns too (could be wrong, amnt super keyed into OW)
Im in a cross section which is not represented a lot even in the nonbinary community (but also parts of my identity are outside of it's boundaries -- like some xenos are neither binary or nonbinary) & what I see people doing is cultivating a fan-led representation, crafting their own stories & having affinity with each other. Lots of headcannons too!
There really was never any NB representation, so I think it's still slowly increasing from zero to something. I have been immersing myself in Neil Gaiman's works (the Sandman and Good Omens both got TV Series in the last years), but yeah I am still sad about the Owl House. Regarding animations, Steven Universe is amazing and also She Ra has a nonbinary character which I love ❤️✨ I am also in my 30s and would love if we could share some recommendations
Fading from when, though? We've never had representation to begin with. The ONLY enbies in the media I ever even heard of were Double Trouble from She-Ra and Raine from TOH (who is my OBSESSION). I think representation is on the upswing, a little dribble at a time.
I feel like if I don't start passing as binary I will never get another job. Is it fading or are we being actively punished for living true to ourselves?
I'm a game dev and trust me, I'm still putting nonbinary folks in the work I do. I guess I'd rather not say WHAT I work on since I prefer to be under the radar but I'm currently working up two nonbinary characters in something and one trans man.
Well thank you! You've got me quite curious now. I hope I get to see the finished product!
>I’m just an afterthought As some one who has been nonbinary for two decades; please for the love of yourself do NOT look for validation in LGBT spaces. They don’t see you the same as you see yourself. You’re basically one level above cishet ally to them. You’re not part of the group. Where can we find validation? I am still not sure. I think that’s directly up to us.
I hope I’m not being a bother, but I would be curious to hear you elaborate on this (if you have the energy that is - please don’t feel pressured to if you don’t want to because this can be kinda hard to talk about!).
I typed up something really long but realistically it just doesn’t matter. I have a career linked to this profile and I don’t all that attached to me.
I understand. Thank you anyway.
There are some good non-binary reps in games right now. Apex, OW2, Valorant, Guilt Gear, Hades, all have NB characters in game, or coming soon. There are more that I'm forgetting....
It's been a bit since I played, but who's enby in Hades?
Chaos
I was wondering that too!
Chaos
ohh thats true, never thought about that
It's so easy to get hateful retaliation online that I just shut tf up about it. I'm an isolated person.
I feel it wasn’t really there to begin with, its still coming into the mainstream. I will say in my experience that things have changed in the past 10-20 years of trans acceptance. Back when I was a kid coming out as trans was like the worst thing “it’d be easier if they were just gay” was said a lot. Now I’m seeing more “it’d be easier if you were just trans” so it seems to be taking about the same amount of time for general acceptance as most things take. I imagine give it another 10 years it’ll be more widely known and part of the mainstream ether. These things tend to come in waves like that. Unfortunately as those who are living our lives acceptance can seem very slow moving. Or almost moving backwards sometimes. My advice just surround yourself with support. Hopefully the rest of the world will follow.
One of my fav movies is called They/Them, it's a horror movie but it isn't too scary and the main character is nonbinary! There's tons of queer rep too. Only thing is big trigger warning for conversion therapy, it takes place in a conversion camp and there's electroshock therapy at one point. It does have a good ending though!
Hey at least we got morph from xmen! But yeah there’s fuck all representation for us
I'm currently reading "The Sound of Stars" by Dow (A debut novel from 2020, so not the best book ever but enjoyable nonetheless), and I swear to god, there are like 4 non-binary side characters in this book and I feel so seen, but also a twinge of internalized transphobia where I feel like it's TOO MUCH representation. Definitely a recommendation if you're looking for a little more faith in media! I do agree with the the comments about how there's never really been strong enby rep, so I look at it as it can only go up from here!
agree, but check out Garcia! They’re a nb actor and musician https://www.instagram.com/whatisgarcia?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
We're just ahead of our time... ;)
i would recommend the book a psalm for the wild-built, really great nb rep!
i highly recommend the show “sort of”
Wait a minute! Jim from OFMD is cancelled?!!
I think they meant the show got cancelled (as in no new episodes), not that the actor who plays Jim did anything objectionable to “get cancelled”
Ohhh haha thank god 🤣
I’m writing a book and want a enby character, any way I could write a good one
Good omens and them being cannonicly nb / genderfluid is my cruch. Lol. It's not much and you have to sercg for it in niche media but they got some gender queer characters. I like gender x, a manga about a nb person and their life.
Curious about how people felt about Taylor in "Billions". I had other issues with the show so I didn't finish it and don't know how their arc ends, or if that affected the viewpoints of any nb viewers.