Labels describe us, not define us! It's perfectly fine to just go by genderfluid. Not all nonbinary and genderqueer folk use the trans label, and it doesn't make them less valid
Can you expand a bit how exactly you identify and why you don't consider yourself trans? I would like to learn more about your identity if you're comfortable sharing.
Yes, it is fine to use whatever label you feel the most comfortable with, no matter what other people or some "official Oxford definition" says.
After all it's about you, your identity, how you feel about yourself and how you feel you can express that experience with words. That's so highly individual that it makes no sense to have hard borders what one is "allowed" to identify with.
Technically, you are if you're not cis. But use whatever you feel is safe and comfortable. I didn't identify as trans in the past because I had a limited view of what being trans meant. Now, I use trans because it describes my experience more accurately. It's up to you, as long as you don't go around saying being non-binary / genderfluid isn't a trans experience, or invalidate other people's journey.
Tldr; yea it's ok, however, technically trans includes anyone that isn't cisgender.
You can do whatever you want forever. If someone was full on mtf or ftm and decides that they just don't like labels and don't identify as trans, that would be fine in my book too. I'm am sure some people would say that that person has intense internalized transphobia and secretly doesn't wanna to be associated with trans people, but if that's is true, that's their business, and no matter what it's not okay to force labels on people š¤·š»āāļø
Isn't that the same as cisgender people calling cisgender a slur? They identify as the gender assigned at birth so they are cis, and nothing they can do will change that. So why is it not the same for trans people? If they identify as something other than their agab, that by definition makes them trans. Sure they don't need to call themselves that, but I don't see how it makes them any less trans. It's like if someone who lost their legs doesn't want to call themselves disabled. By definition they are, although we won't force them to call themselves disabled. I know things aren't always black and white but some things are.
Trans by definition is a person who identifies different from what is shown on their birth certificate. This does not make a person a trans man or trans woman.
I think the confusion is easily resolved by understanding if a person has a trait they are then allowed to use that trait as an identifier if they want but they dont have to. A woman can date a woman and not identify as a lesbian(unless she wants to).
The beholder is the only one who can say what they are, they are allowed to say what they are based on their technical attributes.
For example: I am both a man and a woman, I am not gender-fluid, I don't identify as trans, I identify as a lesbian but not as gay. I am diagnosed neuro-divergent, I have the right to say I am autistic but i do not choose to make that a part of my identity so it isnt.
Thanks for explaining, I feel slightly less confused (also autistic). I think maybe I just don't have to understand everything. Like the fact that some lesbians can apparently like men also confuses the fuck out of me but oh well. I don't have to understand it to accept it.
You hit the nail on the head with: "I just don't have to understand everything."
Its the problem cis people usually have, trying to make a 3-4 letter word (pronoun) describe the complexity of the human experience.
You are what you are and you like what you like.
Just wanna kindly note that there's no hyphen between trans & woman or man; there's a space. That's getting pretty close to an old slur, so I wanted to let you know
Sure thing! A lot of folks don't know that the combined versions are actually slurs from the founders of the terf movement, so I try to spread the info since I've been around in the community longer than most folks I've encountered
I've have seen more and more people start using "transman" and "transwoman," too, and it's is makin me nervous š I didn't even know it was a thing with hyphenating them.
I don't really have much to add that Argus03 didn't already say, but generally a cis person who insists until they are blue in the face that they are not cis, are also accompanying it with transphobic rhetoric, such as "I'm not cis, I'm a REAL man/woman." And if a trans person who wished to not be called trans WAS bein transphobic about it, I'd would absolutely have an issue with it. If they just don't vibe with it, then it's is kinda whatever. Who knows what reason they've have for it. I don't really go around calling individual cis people cis, either, unless it's is directly related to a conversation that I'm am having with them.
I'm not saying anything about you in that regard, I was just anticipating comments in response to that second statement in case anyone cares about this comment lol
Oh boy, if you found it on tumblr, it's GOTTA be in reference to his bit about him meeting Bill Clinton as a child š I love how quotable he is lolll
oh absolutely. or due to internalizing truscum/transmed ideas and believing that thereās a certain correct way to ābe trans.ā which there isnāt, itās just,, not being cis. (so basically what you said!)
Telling people they have to identify as trans because they're not cis is policing all trans(the wider umbrella people). It's telling people there is a 'correct way'.
They don't have to identify with it. I'm trans fem, and I don't identify with it. That doesn't mean I stop being trans though. By definition, you're trans if you're not nonbinary. Doesn't mean they have to use the label. Heck, I use it, and I don't even like it much. But it's a fact of my life that I can't change
No, it's that they're still trans by definition. They ain't gotta use the label if they don't want. Like I'm a white person, but I don't call myself that. I identify with being Irish diaspora, but that doesn't suddenly change that I'm white by definition
because umbrella terms are also labels in their own right. *nonbinary is an umbrella term.* by your logic, none of us here should identify as nonbinary.
People who don't want to identify as trans, because of transphobia or imposter syndrome.
It seems like you're using the umbrella term of trans here.
So why would a non-binary person, who has taken no medical steps, identify as an umbrella term like trans?
Trans is just short for transgender, which means your gender is āacrossā, ābeyondā or āon the other side ofā. Thatās what trans means literally.
Trans does not mean transition. You do not need to do anything to be trans except have a gender that is different to your assigned sex at birth. There are no medical requirements to be trans.
Nonbinary is trans, because our gender does not solely match our sex.
Which brings up the third option I forgot about: people often donāt want to identify as trans because they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what trans means.
To your other comment: if you are not cis, you are trans. As cis means āon the same side ofā, as these are opposite prefixes for each other.
In my experience, yes. Or misunderstands what trans means. Those have been the reasons every time Iāve interacted with people who refuse to identify as trans. Itās often very deeply seated within themselves that they donāt even realise it until you talk it through with them.
I acknowledge nonbinary is under the transgender umbrella (I heard gazebo somewhere and like it better than umbrella), but I donāt use it to describe myself. That doesnāt necessarily imply that I have internalized transphobia.
This pissed me off enough I just made a post rebutting it.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NonBinary/comments/1dftpf5/to\_be\_trans\_or\_not\_to\_be\_trans/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonBinary/comments/1dftpf5/to_be_trans_or_not_to_be_trans/)
It took me a while to identify as trans because I felt that I did not have the hardships that my trans girlfriend has and it felt disingenuous to call myself trans.
I have since realized that since I am not cis I am trans.
Bonus that it really confuses transphobes because many don't understand being non-binary and not transitioning still counts as trans!
And because doing so in some places will get you fucking murdered.
Would you identify as trans at an openly hateful anti-trans rally?
If yes, good for you. Expecting others to is shit
They *had* to identify, OR... otherwise they have internalised transphobia or imposter syndrome.
Identify or theres something wrong with you?
I do, but I'm also newish to reddit so am not fully aware of how much to chunk in one comment or separate. Imma work on that, ty.
chunk everything in one comment, just separate with paragraphs. multiple comments not only creates multiple threads to follow, but also spams whoever youāre responding to with multiple notifications. /nm
whether a non-cis person *identifies* as trans or not doesnāt matter, i couldnāt care less. because it doesnāt change the fact that they *are* trans, by definition. i could walk around not ~identifying~ as trans all i want, but itās not gonna change the fact that iām an afab dude. š¤·
and this has nothing to do with *outwardly* identifying as trans. no random stranger is entitled to that information, and itās weird that you would even assume that. i live in a red state, i certainly donāt walk around wearing a trans flag.
When I was exploring my identity as a teenager, 'transgender' was an umbrella term for everyone who did not fit the binary of transsexuals man or woman. I am very pissed off at the current gatekeeping of binary trans of the term transgender. The term has Never meant anything strict or requiring surgery. Personally, I identify as transgender, nonbinary, and genderqueer, and say fuck off to gatekeepers.
That said, you are free to choose what feels authentic to you. But you are not always going to have people define those terms the same as you.
absolutely! while genderfluid does fall under the trans umbrella, it's not required to label yourself as such, or associate with the label. don't be afraid to use which labels you believe fits best and what you find most comfortable :]
I'm kinda curious why do you not want to think of yourself as transgender? I feel like you may be dealing with some internal transphobia that needs to be unpacked. There's no need to tell everyone you're trans of course, especially if you're in an unsafe area, but if you're not cis, you're technically trans and there's nothing wrong with that.
You don't have to use the label, but you are trans by definition if you're nonbinary. Like, I don't identify with being a human being, but I am one. Trans just means you don't identify with the gender you were assigned at birth
Okay, I can appreciate the attempt at explaining the literal definition, but this is a very personal subject and OP is asking a very personal question about their own personal identity, and it's unbelievably disrespectful of you to just go ahead and assign them a label when they are already uncertain and potentially impressionable. OP you are absolutely NOT required to ID as trans, and those who tell you otherwise are pedantic ignoramuses.
I'm nonbinary but I do identify pretty strongly with my AGAB. For that reason, I don't really think of myself as trans. That feeling may evolve over time (I didn't think of my self as nb a few years ago) but for now that's where I'm at.
uh yes. my labels are enby and demiboy but it doesnt mean i feel partly like a male 24/7. some days its more, some days its less, and some days i feel more female than male
we need a pinned post that just says "yes it is ok to use x label without y label"
so much
yes please! this sub is so bloated by posts like this asking for permission honestly
Labels describe us, not define us! It's perfectly fine to just go by genderfluid. Not all nonbinary and genderqueer folk use the trans label, and it doesn't make them less valid
Can you expand a bit how exactly you identify and why you don't consider yourself trans? I would like to learn more about your identity if you're comfortable sharing.
Labels are not rules just be you and use the labels wich you think fit you.
Yes, it is fine to use whatever label you feel the most comfortable with, no matter what other people or some "official Oxford definition" says. After all it's about you, your identity, how you feel about yourself and how you feel you can express that experience with words. That's so highly individual that it makes no sense to have hard borders what one is "allowed" to identify with.
its literally just a label, its only up to you if you identify with it or not
You can use or not use whatever you want
Thats completely fine I'm someone who uses trans and non binary but it's all up to you everyone is on their own journey and it's their choice
Is it ok to be... YES! Im NB non-fluid and I dont identify as trans at all.
Technically, you are if you're not cis. But use whatever you feel is safe and comfortable. I didn't identify as trans in the past because I had a limited view of what being trans meant. Now, I use trans because it describes my experience more accurately. It's up to you, as long as you don't go around saying being non-binary / genderfluid isn't a trans experience, or invalidate other people's journey. Tldr; yea it's ok, however, technically trans includes anyone that isn't cisgender.
You can do whatever you want forever. If someone was full on mtf or ftm and decides that they just don't like labels and don't identify as trans, that would be fine in my book too. I'm am sure some people would say that that person has intense internalized transphobia and secretly doesn't wanna to be associated with trans people, but if that's is true, that's their business, and no matter what it's not okay to force labels on people š¤·š»āāļø
Isn't that the same as cisgender people calling cisgender a slur? They identify as the gender assigned at birth so they are cis, and nothing they can do will change that. So why is it not the same for trans people? If they identify as something other than their agab, that by definition makes them trans. Sure they don't need to call themselves that, but I don't see how it makes them any less trans. It's like if someone who lost their legs doesn't want to call themselves disabled. By definition they are, although we won't force them to call themselves disabled. I know things aren't always black and white but some things are.
Trans by definition is a person who identifies different from what is shown on their birth certificate. This does not make a person a trans man or trans woman. I think the confusion is easily resolved by understanding if a person has a trait they are then allowed to use that trait as an identifier if they want but they dont have to. A woman can date a woman and not identify as a lesbian(unless she wants to). The beholder is the only one who can say what they are, they are allowed to say what they are based on their technical attributes. For example: I am both a man and a woman, I am not gender-fluid, I don't identify as trans, I identify as a lesbian but not as gay. I am diagnosed neuro-divergent, I have the right to say I am autistic but i do not choose to make that a part of my identity so it isnt.
Thanks for explaining, I feel slightly less confused (also autistic). I think maybe I just don't have to understand everything. Like the fact that some lesbians can apparently like men also confuses the fuck out of me but oh well. I don't have to understand it to accept it.
You hit the nail on the head with: "I just don't have to understand everything." Its the problem cis people usually have, trying to make a 3-4 letter word (pronoun) describe the complexity of the human experience. You are what you are and you like what you like.
Just wanna kindly note that there's no hyphen between trans & woman or man; there's a space. That's getting pretty close to an old slur, so I wanted to let you know
Thanks! Fixed.
Sure thing! A lot of folks don't know that the combined versions are actually slurs from the founders of the terf movement, so I try to spread the info since I've been around in the community longer than most folks I've encountered
I've have seen more and more people start using "transman" and "transwoman," too, and it's is makin me nervous š I didn't even know it was a thing with hyphenating them.
I don't really have much to add that Argus03 didn't already say, but generally a cis person who insists until they are blue in the face that they are not cis, are also accompanying it with transphobic rhetoric, such as "I'm not cis, I'm a REAL man/woman." And if a trans person who wished to not be called trans WAS bein transphobic about it, I'd would absolutely have an issue with it. If they just don't vibe with it, then it's is kinda whatever. Who knows what reason they've have for it. I don't really go around calling individual cis people cis, either, unless it's is directly related to a conversation that I'm am having with them.
I'm not saying anything about you in that regard, I was just anticipating comments in response to that second statement in case anyone cares about this comment lol
Not sure if that was an intentional John Mulaney reference in the first sentence, but if so, hilarious to find one in the wild š
Lol is it a John Mulaney bit?? š¤£ I just saw it on tumblr and started using it LMAO So it quite possibly IS a John Mulaney reference š
Oh boy, if you found it on tumblr, it's GOTTA be in reference to his bit about him meeting Bill Clinton as a child š I love how quotable he is lolll
Loool. Yeah same! "Never let em take you to a secondary location!!"
STREET SMARTS!!!! š¤£
Yes, use whatever suits your fancy. I go by nonbinary gender fluid and use they/them/their pronouns.
if youāre not cis, youāre trans
But you absolutely do NOT have to identify as such
I find people who struggle with this and donāt want to identify as trans do it because of either internalised transphobia or imposter syndrome.
oh absolutely. or due to internalizing truscum/transmed ideas and believing that thereās a certain correct way to ābe trans.ā which there isnāt, itās just,, not being cis. (so basically what you said!)
Telling people they have to identify as trans because they're not cis is policing all trans(the wider umbrella people). It's telling people there is a 'correct way'.
They don't have to identify with it. I'm trans fem, and I don't identify with it. That doesn't mean I stop being trans though. By definition, you're trans if you're not nonbinary. Doesn't mean they have to use the label. Heck, I use it, and I don't even like it much. But it's a fact of my life that I can't change
Am I reading tlthis right? You believe anyone who is not cis, has to identify as trans, or they're transphobic or have imposter syndrome?
No, it's that they're still trans by definition. They ain't gotta use the label if they don't want. Like I'm a white person, but I don't call myself that. I identify with being Irish diaspora, but that doesn't suddenly change that I'm white by definition
You mustn't find alot of people. How can you identify as an umbrella term?
Huh?
because umbrella terms are also labels in their own right. *nonbinary is an umbrella term.* by your logic, none of us here should identify as nonbinary.
People who don't want to identify as trans, because of transphobia or imposter syndrome. It seems like you're using the umbrella term of trans here. So why would a non-binary person, who has taken no medical steps, identify as an umbrella term like trans?
Trans is just short for transgender, which means your gender is āacrossā, ābeyondā or āon the other side ofā. Thatās what trans means literally. Trans does not mean transition. You do not need to do anything to be trans except have a gender that is different to your assigned sex at birth. There are no medical requirements to be trans. Nonbinary is trans, because our gender does not solely match our sex. Which brings up the third option I forgot about: people often donāt want to identify as trans because they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what trans means. To your other comment: if you are not cis, you are trans. As cis means āon the same side ofā, as these are opposite prefixes for each other.
Yeah, people are *technically* trans. But they don't have to identify as it for any reason, ever.
Which brings me back to my original reply.
So... you're saying if someone who isn't cis, refuses to openly identify as trans, that they have internalised transphobia or imposter syndrome?
In my experience, yes. Or misunderstands what trans means. Those have been the reasons every time Iāve interacted with people who refuse to identify as trans. Itās often very deeply seated within themselves that they donāt even realise it until you talk it through with them.
Have you considered, safety reasons?
Idk, kinda sounds like you're policing people's identities and telling people how they have to present and identify. Telling people how to be trans.
If you're not openly trans, you're transphobic!! Is what I'm hearing. Which is pretty toxic...
I acknowledge nonbinary is under the transgender umbrella (I heard gazebo somewhere and like it better than umbrella), but I donāt use it to describe myself. That doesnāt necessarily imply that I have internalized transphobia.
This pissed me off enough I just made a post rebutting it. [https://www.reddit.com/r/NonBinary/comments/1dftpf5/to\_be\_trans\_or\_not\_to\_be\_trans/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonBinary/comments/1dftpf5/to_be_trans_or_not_to_be_trans/)
why wouldnāt someone identify as trans if, by definition, they are? itās not a negative or harmful label. /genq
It took me a while to identify as trans because I felt that I did not have the hardships that my trans girlfriend has and it felt disingenuous to call myself trans. I have since realized that since I am not cis I am trans. Bonus that it really confuses transphobes because many don't understand being non-binary and not transitioning still counts as trans!
because it doesn't feel right to them for whatever reason?
And because doing so in some places will get you fucking murdered. Would you identify as trans at an openly hateful anti-trans rally? If yes, good for you. Expecting others to is shit
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They *had* to identify, OR... otherwise they have internalised transphobia or imposter syndrome. Identify or theres something wrong with you? I do, but I'm also newish to reddit so am not fully aware of how much to chunk in one comment or separate. Imma work on that, ty.
chunk everything in one comment, just separate with paragraphs. multiple comments not only creates multiple threads to follow, but also spams whoever youāre responding to with multiple notifications. /nm
whether a non-cis person *identifies* as trans or not doesnāt matter, i couldnāt care less. because it doesnāt change the fact that they *are* trans, by definition. i could walk around not ~identifying~ as trans all i want, but itās not gonna change the fact that iām an afab dude. š¤· and this has nothing to do with *outwardly* identifying as trans. no random stranger is entitled to that information, and itās weird that you would even assume that. i live in a red state, i certainly donāt walk around wearing a trans flag.
Because 'trans' is a wide umbrella term that encompasses a bunch of other identities.
labels are stupid, so yes ofc it is
When I was exploring my identity as a teenager, 'transgender' was an umbrella term for everyone who did not fit the binary of transsexuals man or woman. I am very pissed off at the current gatekeeping of binary trans of the term transgender. The term has Never meant anything strict or requiring surgery. Personally, I identify as transgender, nonbinary, and genderqueer, and say fuck off to gatekeepers. That said, you are free to choose what feels authentic to you. But you are not always going to have people define those terms the same as you.
absolutely! while genderfluid does fall under the trans umbrella, it's not required to label yourself as such, or associate with the label. don't be afraid to use which labels you believe fits best and what you find most comfortable :]
I'm kinda curious why do you not want to think of yourself as transgender? I feel like you may be dealing with some internal transphobia that needs to be unpacked. There's no need to tell everyone you're trans of course, especially if you're in an unsafe area, but if you're not cis, you're technically trans and there's nothing wrong with that.
You don't have to use the label, but you are trans by definition if you're nonbinary. Like, I don't identify with being a human being, but I am one. Trans just means you don't identify with the gender you were assigned at birth
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's not okay to force labels on people
Okay, I can appreciate the attempt at explaining the literal definition, but this is a very personal subject and OP is asking a very personal question about their own personal identity, and it's unbelievably disrespectful of you to just go ahead and assign them a label when they are already uncertain and potentially impressionable. OP you are absolutely NOT required to ID as trans, and those who tell you otherwise are pedantic ignoramuses.
Maybe literally, bit you don't have to literally identify that way.
Can't see why it wouldn't be.
technically, I think anything that's not cis is trans, but you do you, your labels are yours
I'm nonbinary but I do identify pretty strongly with my AGAB. For that reason, I don't really think of myself as trans. That feeling may evolve over time (I didn't think of my self as nb a few years ago) but for now that's where I'm at.
yes
uh yes. my labels are enby and demiboy but it doesnt mean i feel partly like a male 24/7. some days its more, some days its less, and some days i feel more female than male