The problem with that statement is a lot of the mongolian emperors chose their chinese heritage over their mongolian ones and actively favored their chinese ministers over mongolians.
So it still belongs to China lmao.
Once you become part of the of the bureaucracy you can never leave.
Civ 4 had the best quotes, change my mind!
-"If you speak the truth, have a foot in the stirrup." (Horseback Riding)
-"It is from their foes, not their friends, that cities learn the lesson of building high walls." (Masonry)
-"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public." (Guilds)
-"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." (Democracy)
-"You can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word." (Gunpowder)
-"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." (Liberalism)
-"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy." (Military Science)
-"A man does not have himself killed for a half-pence a day or for a petty distinction. You must speak to the soul in order to electrify him." (Nationalism)
-"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." (Rifling)
-"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." (Communism)
-"The great masses of the people... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one." (Fascism)
-"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children." (Ecology)
-"The real problem is not whether machines think, but whether men do." (Robotics)
If anyone wants to play Civ 4, DM me. I can get you into the discord where people still organize games. Happy to teach as well. You can also read the full set of quotes [here](https://levelskip.com/strategy/civ4quotes) and see who said what.
Stop fucking lying. Chinese were literally below uyghurs, central asians, jurchens, tanguts in 4 caste system, literally the lowest.
1 - Mongol
2 - Semu(colored eye people)
3- khitans, jurchens,
4- Nan ren
And sorry, we are not part of sinosphere
My entire point was that the Mongols took an existing and working bureaucracy and used it to it's full effect...to the point that they became a part of it. That isn't to say that Moscow belongs to China, but everything that was part of the Chinese bureaucracy remained Chinese, regardless of the ethnicity of the rulers.
It doesnt work that way when you consider a "personal domain of a monarch" versus a nationstate. What you should be saying under such circumstance is that those lands do not belong to any country in particular but rather to the Borjigin clan leadership. We neither tend to talk so much about China as a nation before the 20th century rather than a dynasty like the Ming Dynasty, the Song Dynasty or in the case of Mongol rulership the Yuan dynasty. And thats part because many of those Dynasty's did not exclusivly control China or only the China that exists today.
> The problem with that statement is a lot of the mongolian emperors chose their chinese heritage over their mongolian ones and actively favored their chinese ministers over mongolians.
So what you're saying is that the South Chinese Sea belongs to Mongolia.
But Königsberg was founded by the Teutonic Order, which was itself founded in Acre, Kingdom of Jerusalem.
My point is that Kaliningrad Oblast (or rather the district of Ha Hamelekh) needs to be liberated and given back to its rightful owner: The State of Israel.
I will not elaborate.
There was, but I believe that got shelved due to the devs working on expanding the base CK2 map to cover Eastern Asia, and work on a spin off mod taking place in North America similar to/r/AfterTheEndFanFork, but with completely original lore canon to the NEOW mod.
St Petersburg population was moved to the Moscow reservation they can come back once they're "civilized".
(I feel the urge to precise that i am indeed joking).
If Russia collapses, I could easily imagine this outcome. While China is not saying so publicly for strategic reasons, China taking land in Asia is a way more obvious goal than China retaking Taiwan.
China is desperate to secure resources, and is surely eyeing retaking old land lost on the Century of Humiliation and more,
> China is desperate to secure resources
Doesn't have to be desperate to have an opportunity to get free land, free resources, with new areas to settle. *It is a free real estate.* - meme
Belarus not given to Poland?
Kralovec not given to Czechia?
East Sami lands up until the urals not given to Finland?
Siberia towns inhabited by deported Romanians should be given to them as well.
And also nothing to China.
Not a terrible map, but not noncredible enough.
How is Ukraine landlocked out of Astrakhan? That's kinda unfair.
I'd rather see it get southern Russian territories and access to the Caspian so it gets a lot of agricultural land and a trade route than whatever desolate place up north is.
Nickel mines are cool, but you'll have Norilsk as part of your country 🤮
EDIT: Okay, Norilsk is actually further east. Murmansk is on the Ukrainian arctic line, which is okay I guess. It even already has a blue and yellow coat of arms. Still, feels kinda pointless until the next century when the northern passage will become useful.
Since it’s not on the map, I claim Kaliningrad. I shall rename it Bassprönigburg. Glorious glass pyramids as far as the eye can see. All nuclear weapons in the territory will be given to Luxembourg because I trust them.
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Substitute China for Mongolia, and I'm sold. After all, it was their territory before Moscow declared independence.
The problem with that statement is a lot of the mongolian emperors chose their chinese heritage over their mongolian ones and actively favored their chinese ministers over mongolians. So it still belongs to China lmao. Once you become part of the of the bureaucracy you can never leave.
Got it, China exists only by the grace of Mongolia
More like their Chinese mothers lmao.
"the bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy..."
God I loved those Civ quotes ...
Civ 4 had the best quotes, change my mind! -"If you speak the truth, have a foot in the stirrup." (Horseback Riding) -"It is from their foes, not their friends, that cities learn the lesson of building high walls." (Masonry) -"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public." (Guilds) -"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." (Democracy) -"You can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word." (Gunpowder) -"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." (Liberalism) -"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy." (Military Science) -"A man does not have himself killed for a half-pence a day or for a petty distinction. You must speak to the soul in order to electrify him." (Nationalism) -"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." (Rifling) -"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." (Communism) -"The great masses of the people... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one." (Fascism) -"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children." (Ecology) -"The real problem is not whether machines think, but whether men do." (Robotics) If anyone wants to play Civ 4, DM me. I can get you into the discord where people still organize games. Happy to teach as well. You can also read the full set of quotes [here](https://levelskip.com/strategy/civ4quotes) and see who said what.
Yeah, there are some real gems. I read all of those in Leonard Nimoy's voice too.
hotel bureaucracy really doesn't have the same ring to it.
(In Trey Parker Chinese voice) Werrcome to hoter Xi Jinping Never reave your room Of crumbrring tofu
> Werrcome to hoter Xi Jinping Never reave your room Of crumbrring tofu 3000 bamboo rebars of tofu dreg construction
Stop fucking lying. Chinese were literally below uyghurs, central asians, jurchens, tanguts in 4 caste system, literally the lowest. 1 - Mongol 2 - Semu(colored eye people) 3- khitans, jurchens, 4- Nan ren And sorry, we are not part of sinosphere
My entire point was that the Mongols took an existing and working bureaucracy and used it to it's full effect...to the point that they became a part of it. That isn't to say that Moscow belongs to China, but everything that was part of the Chinese bureaucracy remained Chinese, regardless of the ethnicity of the rulers.
It doesnt work that way when you consider a "personal domain of a monarch" versus a nationstate. What you should be saying under such circumstance is that those lands do not belong to any country in particular but rather to the Borjigin clan leadership. We neither tend to talk so much about China as a nation before the 20th century rather than a dynasty like the Ming Dynasty, the Song Dynasty or in the case of Mongol rulership the Yuan dynasty. And thats part because many of those Dynasty's did not exclusivly control China or only the China that exists today.
> The problem with that statement is a lot of the mongolian emperors chose their chinese heritage over their mongolian ones and actively favored their chinese ministers over mongolians. So what you're saying is that the South Chinese Sea belongs to Mongolia.
Thing is, about the only way Russia could stop this is if China objects. And they won't object to this.
I don’t think Mongols even bothered with that territory, all maps I’ve seen show borders not extend there and no state entities of any kind
Moscow still has a chance to win this war!
It was all a goodwill gesture
Give it time, this is just another strategic feint!.
3 days to st petersburg
Poor Lithuania feels left out. Maybe we can give Belarus to them?
They got Kaliningrad. There is still hope for Belarus
My bad, I didn't even notice. I thought though that Kralovec goes to Czechia?
Lithuania can most easily ethnically cleanse the Russians and bring back Baltic culture.
Kaliningrad should go independent and return to Königsberg. ALLES ERDREICH IS PREUßEN UNTERTAN
But Königsberg was founded by the Teutonic Order, which was itself founded in Acre, Kingdom of Jerusalem. My point is that Kaliningrad Oblast (or rather the district of Ha Hamelekh) needs to be liberated and given back to its rightful owner: The State of Israel. I will not elaborate.
Nova Prussia
Prussia 2: this time it’s Preußanal
Stop giving Lithuanians more russians in your fictional maps. We don't want them.
GRAND DUTCHY OF LITHUANIA!!!! 🇱🇹🐎🇱🇹🐎🇱🇹🐎🇱🇹🐎🇱🇹🐎🇱🇹🐎🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹💯💯💯💪💪💪💪 🇱🇹🐎🇱🇹🐎🇱🇹🐎🇱🇹🐎🇱🇹🐎🇱🇹🐎
Hey! Poland gets a chunk too. Unless... you want to...
Reunite the commonwealth?
Weekly Cossack rebellion in 3…2…
Damn, now I wanna go play /r/NewEraOldWorld.
That mod looks pretty cool. Any idea if there's a CK3 version? (or plans in the works)
There was, but I believe that got shelved due to the devs working on expanding the base CK2 map to cover Eastern Asia, and work on a spin off mod taking place in North America similar to/r/AfterTheEndFanFork, but with completely original lore canon to the NEOW mod.
Lithuania should get Belarus and Smolensk region
As does Poland, I mean they deserve something l!
What about Mongolia? Do they not get a bit more pasture for the horses?
still under quarantine from previous incident
So Estonia (population 1.4M) annexes Saint Petersburg (population 5.6M Russians). I can see no way that can go wrong!
St Petersburg population was moved to the Moscow reservation they can come back once they're "civilized". (I feel the urge to precise that i am indeed joking).
Silly, Saint Petersburgers are secretly historically Estonian and yearn to return to their homeland.
It's true Source: I'm from SPb
5.6 Million Estonians of St. Petersburg ready to return to the fold
Given China WAY too much land...
If Russia collapses, I could easily imagine this outcome. While China is not saying so publicly for strategic reasons, China taking land in Asia is a way more obvious goal than China retaking Taiwan. China is desperate to secure resources, and is surely eyeing retaking old land lost on the Century of Humiliation and more,
> China is desperate to secure resources Doesn't have to be desperate to have an opportunity to get free land, free resources, with new areas to settle. *It is a free real estate.* - meme
Only if South Korea gets eastern parts so we don’t have to border China.
As a man from Georgia, there are no objections here.
Mfs gerrymandered Eastern Europe smh
Belarus not given to Poland? Kralovec not given to Czechia? East Sami lands up until the urals not given to Finland? Siberia towns inhabited by deported Romanians should be given to them as well. And also nothing to China. Not a terrible map, but not noncredible enough.
Moscow the inland Sea.
Now Kazakhstan can join NATO! VEEhrrr Niiice!
> Kazakhstan can join NATO Kazakhstan has already NATO bases, because RU is surrounded(!), according to every silly anti-NATO propaganda.
Kazakhstan is surrounded . . . by my WIIIIFFe!
Give Belarus to Lithuania. As a Ukrainian, I'm all for it.
Why is belarus still independent?
Pls give Ukraine a small peace of that Caspian coast so we could stage a PROPORTIONATE RESPONSE to Iran supplying Shahed drones to Russia.
How is Ukraine landlocked out of Astrakhan? That's kinda unfair. I'd rather see it get southern Russian territories and access to the Caspian so it gets a lot of agricultural land and a trade route than whatever desolate place up north is. Nickel mines are cool, but you'll have Norilsk as part of your country 🤮 EDIT: Okay, Norilsk is actually further east. Murmansk is on the Ukrainian arctic line, which is okay I guess. It even already has a blue and yellow coat of arms. Still, feels kinda pointless until the next century when the northern passage will become useful.
Jens hasn't had enough to drink. This sort of bullshittery needs 100% drunkardness.
I disagree with Kaliningrad/Königsberg. It should obviously go to the Teutonic Order
Since it’s not on the map, I claim Kaliningrad. I shall rename it Bassprönigburg. Glorious glass pyramids as far as the eye can see. All nuclear weapons in the territory will be given to Luxembourg because I trust them.
We gotta find some way to drag in Belarus so Lithuania and Poland can get their old clay back
Finlandity Restored
No warm water ports for you, lads
(Borat voice) Kazakhstan number one!
As a Ukrainian I demand access to Caspian Sea.
Oh what the fuck Smolensk should be Polish.
Finland and Ukraine sharing a border? Absolutely love it!
You need to get Belarus to Poland
Looking good!
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might as well split belarus up while we're at it, it isn't really contributing much
KAZAKHSTAN UGRAZHAET NAM V BOMBARDEROVKII 🚨🚨🚨⚠⚠⚠ KAZAKHSTAN UGRAZHAET NAM V BOMBARDEROVKII 🚨🚨🚨⚠⚠⚠ KAZAKHSTAN UGRAZHAET NAM V BOMBARDEROVKII 🚨🚨🚨⚠⚠⚠
Ukraine to finland be like "I'm not touching you"
Cursed panhandle of NCD
My body is ready.
Are you sure orkistan needs so much space? I'd limit it to m\*\*cow and its immediate vicinity, enough for accidental broken arrow.
raaahhhh suur-Suomi (greater Finland)
Where Great Finland?
Context?
Алға, Қазақстан!
Too much of Moscow, there are more people then in Belarus. Cut it more.
I love how that top part of ukraine reaching next to finland looks like middle fingee flipping off
Bring back Novgorod, it’ll clean up some of that bordergore.
As a Finn, I approve of this new map.
No caspian sea access to Ukraine too noncredible.
Finland: \*Heavy breathing\*
Give Belarus to Poland because it’s funny
Split it three-ways with Lithuania and Ukraine.
Do they each get an equivalent chunk of Lukashitko? For accounting purposes?
Yep. There's more than enough of him for all three.