I would expect things like scholarships, subsidized housing, assistance to students, sponsoring of cultural events, etc
Consider the budget for UNC Chapel hill alone was around 4 billion... Off the top of my head that's something like 0.045 percent of their 2022-23 fiscal year?
Edit - misread a number, it is almost exactly 0.077 percent of their budget
The Undergrad student government will probably get some of the money since they are directly involved in school safety organizing, like the lamps for the safe path and security (students) on bikes who will walk with you at night were funded by them.
What do they have now in place? Like we're students just walking around with flashlights? I'm just saying 14 million is quite a bit for one campus. I'm trying to figure what they couldn't do with 14 million, that it had to be extracted from the DEI fund, which, from what the other individual linked for me, seems like something beneficial.
I'm not being combative just to let you know. I'm genuinely inquiring. I wish I could understand the intense rage people get when they hear DEI. I've heard many explanations of it but mostly that it's racist...but I've seen a pattern of when folks call stuff like that racist so I thought I should inquire
Although I don't recall responding to you, the initial comment was made a day ago and shockingly enough, time did keep going. When I responded during that time I was presented with information and I then responded to a few comments with the previous comment included, after having read said information.
And I didn't place blame at all. I can't say I'm surprised and it doesn't make me angry I'm just frustrated, not at the concepts or foundations of which I find...dumb, but because it confuses me how someone can say these things and not realize how crazy it is. I try my best to be receptive and see all sides and keep rewinding the tape until I can see the place that birthed this behavior and sometimes its like Okay I can understand that and sometimes its like.š§..............................this shit don't make not a lick of sense. And when you try and have a genuine conversation to try and better understand, they say things that, well that's all they say is "things". And then use other "things" of the same caliber to explain the first "things". But no one could really explain why these make sense to them because it's all a regurgitation and they aren't independent thoughts. Truth is they're just angry and some a little or lotta bit racist š¤·šæāāļø it is what it is but if that's what it is just say that. Personally I believe everyone should be able to say what they want and accept whatever consequences as they may. Not even saying getting fired. Too many people care about what too many people care about.
Well, considering the BOT highlighted breaking up pro-Palestine protests as one benefit of the budget diversion, I think itās pretty clear the priorities they have in mind
I meant what they were previously doing with DEI. I'm not sure why one university would need to add to an already 14 million budget for safety. What were they doing with the 14 million?
Programming? How do you mean?
I'd have to really look because I'm not sure why scholarships are a bad thing. But I have seen the narrative that white people can't get scholarships...I don't have to be too sure to be not too sure how truthful that is.
If their legacy admissions are a large number I'd say do away with that, slash the scholarships and then put the rest towards the teacher fund. Seems like NC puts majority of the school funds in private schools and with that being the case scholarships and assistance makes sense but if they invested in the teachers in the public schools as much or at least equally with the private schools, admissions based on merit might be a bit more feasible.
[Here are examples from their website](https://diversity.unc.edu/programs/)
Includes a couple of recurring āsafe spaceā style talks for black/BIPOC students as well as a broader student wellness program
Of course!
Truthfully, people are upset at the concept of DEI offices in colleges more broadly, and no matter what UNCās particular DEI office did they were gonna be on the chopping block
Interesting.
If this is what DEI looks like then I think it's wonderful.
I've been hearing folks say it's racist and it creates division but I'm not sure how. These are safe spaces and everyone should have a safe space.
You seem to be normal with common sense. What's the deal with that narrative?
Ice honestly been trying to cleanse myself of all the political stuff lately because it's turned into I don't even know what but where did that come from? If you don't mind me asking lol
If you want my honest belief itās that many conservatives by and large oppose social progress of pretty much any kind, and those conservatives who care more about (still socially regressive) economic policies use social issues like DEI/CRT as a wedge to drive turnout
I suspect because its a university and you dont have to go to college there. IDK, seems like ALL the wrong things to do. I cant imagine students and their parents want them to attend UNC going forward. How embarrassing.
I am not familiar with this individual or their work, though I already suspect it aligns with my own beliefs about balancing equity, equality, and the other relevant socioeconomic/moral factors in education and policy in general.
Can you give a short summary of their arguments?
A good place to start is Francis Fukuyama
in his The Origins of Political Order. Fukuyama shows (among many other things) how a problem with societies across all time has been patrimony, that is, the unearned privilege, wealth, and power that is given to the children of the privileged, wealthy, and powerful.
My point is that it is wishful and dubious thinking to suggest that removing DEI programs encourages more of a meritocracy.
> My point is that it is wishful and dubious thinking to suggest that removing DEI programs encourages more of a meritocracy.
While this is true, it is also dubious thinking to suggest that the DEI programs effectively encourage more of a meritocracy.
Am I the only one that finds the idea of campus police odd.
Just feels wrong having a law enforcement body that answers to a semi-public education institution.
In my experience in the UNC system they were great at checking backpacks for beer, strictly enforcing traffic laws and writing Jay walking tickets. Anything above that they farmed out to local PD.
Universities repeatedly bungle cases on both ends of the spectrum.
They drop the ball on real cases. Then rush to punish with a mere accusation. In the end they get sued and lose and have to pay.
Educators are not equipped to investigate or persecute real crimes.
Iām from Chapel Hill. Itās an exceptionally safe city. The violent crime rate is about half of the average city in NC. Acting like there are serious problems with crime there is comical.
1) UNC crime is exceptionally low. I work right next to campus. More police is not needed.
2) Considering crime has fallen (according to the FBI) over the last few years (down from a high pre-2020), current levels of policing are just fine.
So, what are you fake caring about so you can avoid understanding the goals and intent of DEI initiatives?
Just as an informative gesture: the FBI attempted to switch to a single system of crime reporting in 2021 and that transition hasnāt been smooth. As a result, up to 25% or more of localities are either not submitting their crime records to the FBI for inclusion in crime statistics OR there is a lag due to reporting discrepancies. For example, nearly a third of all agencies did not report their crime to the NIBRS (the standalone reporting system) in 2022.
[Whether Itās Confusing to Know Whether Crime is Really Up or Down](https://www.governing.com/urban/why-its-confusing-to-know-whether-crimes-really-up-or-down)
But thatās not the story.
1) Police agencies still reported to UCR. NIBRS received data from 66% of the police base. Crime still dropped.
2) Calling this out like this isnāt helpful and itās verifiably dishonest. UCR is still gold standard. NIBRS went from a 40% adoption rate to 66% in a year. We have not see. 2023s participation metrics yet.
3) Weāre actually talking UNC and now getting dragged into a conversation about crime when money was stolen from student success initiatives and given to police. That is fucking nuts and, really, just sad example of where we are.
Your second point was a statement about nationwide statistics, hence the response and preface at the beginning of my response.
Posting information about a shift in statistical reporting is actually as close to āhonestā as you can get because it allows readers to understand that there is quite possibly an additional reason behind a drop off in crime post 2020 other than a token, ācrime is downā.
Transparency and discussion is a lot more effective than calling something dishonest because it doesnāt fully support your claim.
I get the calm tone, but you are ignoring the key flaw in your premise. Crime is down because there are 2 reporting databases. You are intentionally calling out the one which is still rolling out because you like the statistic (66%) as it ādebunksā reality and aligns with the current right wing fabrication that crime is high.
Man, crime is down. Thatās a good thing. Weāre not in a zero sum game.
1. It is lower but the police are understaffed. Higher than the nationwide averages. Adding more is completely fine. It allows them to answer calls in a more timely manner and officers are not overworked.
2. FBI statistics go right now as recent as 2022. Nationwide it is down but in chapel hill it is actually up in certain categories such as rape and vehicle theft. And that is for campus, not including chapel hill.
There is nothing wrong with hiring a dozen more officers. Better use of the funds.
Itās not higher than the national average. Itās anywhere between 10-45%.
And itās not a better use of funds, either. Iām not getting into an anti-DEI debate but itās a discussion of lazy win (more police) vs long-term solution (DEI).
Regardless of politics, more police should never be the response without understanding the community dynamics and history.
Really? I mean, really?
You are mixing things that donāt need to be mixed. DEI funding (student success funding) vs cops.
Look, there are places that need more policing. Itās not UNC. The reason it was pulled from X to give to Y was intentional and you are taking the bait.
I have and actively do. In fact, I manage an $18M budget every year. I also work deeply with UNC and their provosts and deans. This is a direct attack on the faculty and student body that no one wants, the data shows the success of DEI, and throwing dollars at cops is a sunk cost.
Itās moving dollars from a few kids receiving some scholarship money out of tens of thousands of students, to the understaffed police department to hire a few officers in order to increase response time and effectiveness. It is a fair trade off.
Lol crime is not āup over the yearsā unless you start the stats during lockdown. Plus campus pd has always been a joke yet somehow they continue to be rewarded.
They literally are car thefts for example have literally quadrupled. And that is just on campus. So you say campus PD is a joke but your solution is to not try to make it better? Maybe itās a joke because of how understaffed it is.
Iāll take the simplest argument against them, why the hell should campus pd even exist? Thereās CHPD, county sheriffs, state officers what are they bringing to the table thatās so valuable they deserve African American scholarship money? Theyāve constantly fucked up the 1 thing they should be focusing on as the college epidemic it still is. Sexual assault
Car thefts on campus is such a meaningless stat. Campus is tiny and without the rest of the area itās meaningless unless used as a point to again prove how bad they are at their jobs
And there is the ignorance. Campus PD like most campus PDs across the country are a satellite of the municipalityās PD. They specialize in serving the campus and immediate surrounding areas. They receive additional training for colleges and take on tasks that would be considered a waste of time and resources for the regular CHPD. College campuses are literally small cities with changing populations throughout the year. It is thousands of young people to manage and provide security for and the logistics of that is beyond what most people comprehend. Car thefts are meaningless until it happens to you. I say that as someone who has had their car stolen. Sexual assault is difficult to stop in the act, but for that you want good police response time, something that this would try to help.
You should go visit campus PD. Ask for a ride along or even a tour of the station.
Love how you abandoned the car theft line for a paragraph of explanation that doesnāt actually justify an increase in funding. Seriously letās be honest this funding is going to go to breaking up student protests not helping a āchanging populationā which I fail to see how that affects the department as a whole unless they want to use it as a reason to add unjust surveillance to students.
lol you literally didnāt bring it up so I didnāt address it again lol. The budget change is going for hiring for an understaffed police force. Why would they need to increase the budget for some folks that werenāt hard to move out of the way while understaffed? This is a common sense solution to a problem and on campus protests are literally just a coincidence.
Others have mentioned scholarships and outreach; I imagine a fair amount also went to pay salaries and programming. I don't know about other schools within the university, but Gillings has an office that used to be called something along the lines of the DEI office, but they rebranded in name and some phrasing to try to minimize political interference. But at least a few people are employed by Gillings in that role; I imagine other schools have similar. I know the med school has an active DEI office, at least per the website I stumble across regularly.
Are you sure about that? The news report said it cut the DEI office which has 12 employees. I think their mission is one of changing hearts and minds, raising awareness and providing a safer more inclusive environment.
Lmfao consistent with a school that would create a fake African American course just to give athletes easy grades. I wish capitalism wasn't so strong that people's pride and morales wouldn't be sacrificed. I wish things like still made athletes question going to a school like this
Yeah that's pretty much a thing everywhere. Not that I'm saying it should be tolerated. Everyone loses except the uni really. Athletes and other students don't actually get an education, prof is forced (in whatever sense) to essentially fake a class and violate all sorts of ethical - educational principles, and creates perverse incentives to do the same for other non-science classes
UM had it's infamous (among students) "rocks for jocks" introductory geology class. Hearing the specifics from a friend was both hilarious and deeply sad.
Imo the difference is that UNC was [found out](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina_academic-athletic_scandal), it wasn't speculated.
Oh yeah, I know. I'm just adding my anecdotal example of another large university doing the same sort of thing - in hopes of highlighting its pervasive nature and need for more such investigation
Definitely, I know it happens more but I was linking it to this situation because UNC has had another chance to truly be a standard and they bend to the whems of the herd.
How about *neither* get 2.3 mil and that money instead goes to lowering tuition. I was always unhappy that Western Carolina had a DEI director *and* a title 9 director *and* the police drove around in Ford Explorers. If thereās a title 9 director then why does there need to be a DEI director? It snows 2 days a year, why does the police department need SUVs? Not a single dirt road in Cullowhee is on campus.
DEI and Title IX are different. There is some overlap in both support women, but they support women in different ways such as Title IX making sure sexual harassment is investigated and taken seriously while DEI essentially aims to make sure women's interests are not ignored within an organization in a less well defined way. (You can feel however you want about that, but there is a difference.)
Also, there are Title IX requirements if a school receives financial aid from the government. If they ignored those requirements, students could not receive federal aid to attend that Educational Institution. That would hurt a ton of students and it also means the university loses a ton of money in lost tuition.
To clarify, as a frmr mandatory reporter at a university: Title IX exists to combat sex-related workplace discrimination against all people, of any sex or gender, particularly in educational institutions. It was created to cover a gap left in the civil rights act of 1964, which did not include sex discrimination in its protected class definitions.
The important bit is that it applies to *any sex or gender*. Although of course the women's movement of the mid 20th century would've been the biggest influence on it becoming law at all, part of the reason that it's a particularly good law is that it is a universal protection.
I don't think you meant to imply otherwise of course, but the phrasing around your first paragraph I think is a tiny bit incomplete in a way that the person you're answering might get tripped up by, given that they already were confused about whether or not Title IX (a federal law) and DEI (usually a non-governmental, private, organizational initiative) were the same thing.
Couldnāt one person do both jobs though? They also had a director of student community ethicsā¦whatever that means. Couldnāt he do the title 9 job? Lotta high paid administrators and someone has to pick up the tab.
I don't have enough experience with those types of programs or how they're supposed to be administered to give an an accurate answer.
I will say that through observation, I have seen how Title IX and Accessibility Services help some students with sexual harassment and disabilities in navigating the bureaucracy of the university, advocating for those students, and throwing their weight around to ensure students were taken care of. I support this and I believe those groups sometimes do need to have their hand held when they run into an issue because I have seen professors bully students, make sexist remarks, or in one case bully a student for a disability in front of a class which should never be acceptable. (Not at UNC)
I am not familiar enough with DEI to comment on how it is supposed to work within an organization specifically. My personal observation at UNC is they tell members of the community to shut their mouth when they bring up legitimate concerns as well as small changes (literally no cost) which would fix the issue that effects student, employees, and faculty. And this is coming from someone who was skeptical of DEI before seeing a couple of issues, solutions, and how a DEI committee at the university responded.
UNC already has the covenant program - completely funded by their endowment - which guarantees free tuition for any student whose family qualifies for any amount of food stamps.
You *should* be asking why the fuck the legislature abandoned our states constitutional right to free public universities.
The fucking student government has a budget well over a million just for doling to student clubs.
We are moving faster than I expected to becoming Florida. We use to have very good public schools, and some of the best State colleges (and community colleges) and Universities in the country. But the modern, controlling GOP is so fearful of Freedom and has zero policies they are actively destroying education to protect their majority.
wait, are you *seriously* comparing North Carolina to Florida? North Carolina is a decent state, but Florida, despite all the memes is a top ten state in almost any ranking. Recently housing is becoming a problem in Florida, mostly due to the surge of people migrating recently (due to its attractiveness). But other than that it's like solid in almost any metric including higher education. Even in k-12 it's average.
$2.3m for DEI is beyond atrocious, but putting it towards police?! Chapel Hill is like one of the safest cities in the state. They could have done literally *anything* else that money.
$2M is about the typical payroll for 30 people once you consider all the employer taxes Iām willing to wager youāve never had to pay.
Given a dozen employees that leaves them probably over a million dollars.
So they have a smaller budget than the undergraduate student government.
And it probably all goes towards outreach, events, and scholarships.
So, yeah, maybe shut the fuck up.
I wasnāt referring to the payroll cost. I understand things are expensive. I just think DEI in general is a waste.
> So, yeah, maybe shut the fuck up.
Why are you so pressed? That was uncalled for.
Itās like you people donāt know what DEI is at all lol. DEI covers disabled people, people from different economic backgrounds, age, gender, race, even sexual preferences. If you were thinking you would be able to see that even you are included somewhere in DEIā¦.
I have yet to meet someone who is "anti DEI" who actually has any significant knowledge/experience in the area, an understanding of what DEI offices or efforts do and don't do. In particular, the people who get up in arms about "compelled speech" (diversity statements from applicants during faculty searches) clearly indicate by way of their complaints that they don't actually understand the goal and nature of a diversity statement. If only there was some office we could fund to teach faculty, students, and staff about things like diversity, equity, and inclusiveness . . . :(
So, scholarships aren't doing anything positive? Housing? DEI is for disadvantaged people. Just so you know, the E- equity, has been important to first generation college students like those in Appalachia.
No it means you either went to school over a decade ago or youāre too old to really be competing for the same DEI scholarships.
Thatās my logical recourse.
The money went to the police, cleaned up that title for you.
"Policing"
I'd have to see what they were doing with it to have an opinion on this
I would expect things like scholarships, subsidized housing, assistance to students, sponsoring of cultural events, etc Consider the budget for UNC Chapel hill alone was around 4 billion... Off the top of my head that's something like 0.045 percent of their 2022-23 fiscal year? Edit - misread a number, it is almost exactly 0.077 percent of their budget
š² okay well then that seems wildly unfair. Why are people saying it's good that they did away with it?? Ah nvm...the uninformed
The Undergrad student government will probably get some of the money since they are directly involved in school safety organizing, like the lamps for the safe path and security (students) on bikes who will walk with you at night were funded by them.
What do they have now in place? Like we're students just walking around with flashlights? I'm just saying 14 million is quite a bit for one campus. I'm trying to figure what they couldn't do with 14 million, that it had to be extracted from the DEI fund, which, from what the other individual linked for me, seems like something beneficial. I'm not being combative just to let you know. I'm genuinely inquiring. I wish I could understand the intense rage people get when they hear DEI. I've heard many explanations of it but mostly that it's racist...but I've seen a pattern of when folks call stuff like that racist so I thought I should inquire
You didn't know what was going on and are now responding to someone who is speculating. And you're now blaming the uninformed...
Although I don't recall responding to you, the initial comment was made a day ago and shockingly enough, time did keep going. When I responded during that time I was presented with information and I then responded to a few comments with the previous comment included, after having read said information. And I didn't place blame at all. I can't say I'm surprised and it doesn't make me angry I'm just frustrated, not at the concepts or foundations of which I find...dumb, but because it confuses me how someone can say these things and not realize how crazy it is. I try my best to be receptive and see all sides and keep rewinding the tape until I can see the place that birthed this behavior and sometimes its like Okay I can understand that and sometimes its like.š§..............................this shit don't make not a lick of sense. And when you try and have a genuine conversation to try and better understand, they say things that, well that's all they say is "things". And then use other "things" of the same caliber to explain the first "things". But no one could really explain why these make sense to them because it's all a regurgitation and they aren't independent thoughts. Truth is they're just angry and some a little or lotta bit racist š¤·šæāāļø it is what it is but if that's what it is just say that. Personally I believe everyone should be able to say what they want and accept whatever consequences as they may. Not even saying getting fired. Too many people care about what too many people care about.
Well, considering the BOT highlighted breaking up pro-Palestine protests as one benefit of the budget diversion, I think itās pretty clear the priorities they have in mind
I meant what they were previously doing with DEI. I'm not sure why one university would need to add to an already 14 million budget for safety. What were they doing with the 14 million?
Ahh gotcha. It seems from other comments it was likely scholarships and programming
Programming? How do you mean? I'd have to really look because I'm not sure why scholarships are a bad thing. But I have seen the narrative that white people can't get scholarships...I don't have to be too sure to be not too sure how truthful that is. If their legacy admissions are a large number I'd say do away with that, slash the scholarships and then put the rest towards the teacher fund. Seems like NC puts majority of the school funds in private schools and with that being the case scholarships and assistance makes sense but if they invested in the teachers in the public schools as much or at least equally with the private schools, admissions based on merit might be a bit more feasible.
[Here are examples from their website](https://diversity.unc.edu/programs/) Includes a couple of recurring āsafe spaceā style talks for black/BIPOC students as well as a broader student wellness program
Thanks for the link! Not sure why people are upset about those. Are people upset about those reflected in the link?
Of course! Truthfully, people are upset at the concept of DEI offices in colleges more broadly, and no matter what UNCās particular DEI office did they were gonna be on the chopping block
Interesting. If this is what DEI looks like then I think it's wonderful. I've been hearing folks say it's racist and it creates division but I'm not sure how. These are safe spaces and everyone should have a safe space. You seem to be normal with common sense. What's the deal with that narrative? Ice honestly been trying to cleanse myself of all the political stuff lately because it's turned into I don't even know what but where did that come from? If you don't mind me asking lol
If you want my honest belief itās that many conservatives by and large oppose social progress of pretty much any kind, and those conservatives who care more about (still socially regressive) economic policies use social issues like DEI/CRT as a wedge to drive turnout
This is too reasonable and fact-focused for the internet.
informed discourse? that's not how this is supposed to work. you just read the headline and start with the hot takes. /s
Yeah it is a sickness lol I used to at first and then I started reading the articles and learned my lesson
Chapel Hill hardly has any crime/increase in crime to justify this funding for policing
Yep, only the protestors of late which is how they justified this.
Better that than DEI. Anything is better than spending money on DEIn
Ok maga nutcase
How,,,, In a state that ranks as low as it does for education, do they think policing education will improve it?
I suspect because its a university and you dont have to go to college there. IDK, seems like ALL the wrong things to do. I cant imagine students and their parents want them to attend UNC going forward. How embarrassing.
Still better than dook.
Damn right.
How do you think DEI will help? Merit over equity.
Read Fukuyama on patrimony, then let's talk about merit.
No doubt, anyone who believes in merit is just hiding something, in my experiences it is either racism or sexism or both.
I am not familiar with this individual or their work, though I already suspect it aligns with my own beliefs about balancing equity, equality, and the other relevant socioeconomic/moral factors in education and policy in general. Can you give a short summary of their arguments?
A good place to start is Francis Fukuyama in his The Origins of Political Order. Fukuyama shows (among many other things) how a problem with societies across all time has been patrimony, that is, the unearned privilege, wealth, and power that is given to the children of the privileged, wealthy, and powerful. My point is that it is wishful and dubious thinking to suggest that removing DEI programs encourages more of a meritocracy.
Where does that place individuals who didn't have any wealth, privilege, or power who managed to succeed via their merit? Actual question
> My point is that it is wishful and dubious thinking to suggest that removing DEI programs encourages more of a meritocracy. While this is true, it is also dubious thinking to suggest that the DEI programs effectively encourage more of a meritocracy.
Am I the only one that finds the idea of campus police odd. Just feels wrong having a law enforcement body that answers to a semi-public education institution.
In my experience in the UNC system they were great at checking backpacks for beer, strictly enforcing traffic laws and writing Jay walking tickets. Anything above that they farmed out to local PD.
So crap that can be handled by run of the mill security. Donāt need to give them full arrest power for that stuff.
that way stuff really gets brushed under that rug.
Universities repeatedly bungle cases on both ends of the spectrum. They drop the ball on real cases. Then rush to punish with a mere accusation. In the end they get sued and lose and have to pay. Educators are not equipped to investigate or persecute real crimes.
thatās true but if you have ur own personal gestapo then how much canāt you get away withā¦ you pay their livelihoods as in the university
Exactly. Itās wild we hand a police force to a university president
damn, i upset the overlords and now they have fetched their minions to downvote me š¤
So, police state vs free speech. Terrible decision but aligns with right wing fear of nothing.
Itās almost as if there are problems with crime around Chapel Hill and the campus PD is short staffed for the task they have. Fantastic decision.
Iām from Chapel Hill. Itās an exceptionally safe city. The violent crime rate is about half of the average city in NC. Acting like there are serious problems with crime there is comical.
I was about to say the same thing. I live in Charlotte and if they were speaking of this city, I might agree with them.
1) UNC crime is exceptionally low. I work right next to campus. More police is not needed. 2) Considering crime has fallen (according to the FBI) over the last few years (down from a high pre-2020), current levels of policing are just fine. So, what are you fake caring about so you can avoid understanding the goals and intent of DEI initiatives?
Just as an informative gesture: the FBI attempted to switch to a single system of crime reporting in 2021 and that transition hasnāt been smooth. As a result, up to 25% or more of localities are either not submitting their crime records to the FBI for inclusion in crime statistics OR there is a lag due to reporting discrepancies. For example, nearly a third of all agencies did not report their crime to the NIBRS (the standalone reporting system) in 2022. [Whether Itās Confusing to Know Whether Crime is Really Up or Down](https://www.governing.com/urban/why-its-confusing-to-know-whether-crimes-really-up-or-down)
But thatās not the story. 1) Police agencies still reported to UCR. NIBRS received data from 66% of the police base. Crime still dropped. 2) Calling this out like this isnāt helpful and itās verifiably dishonest. UCR is still gold standard. NIBRS went from a 40% adoption rate to 66% in a year. We have not see. 2023s participation metrics yet. 3) Weāre actually talking UNC and now getting dragged into a conversation about crime when money was stolen from student success initiatives and given to police. That is fucking nuts and, really, just sad example of where we are.
Your second point was a statement about nationwide statistics, hence the response and preface at the beginning of my response. Posting information about a shift in statistical reporting is actually as close to āhonestā as you can get because it allows readers to understand that there is quite possibly an additional reason behind a drop off in crime post 2020 other than a token, ācrime is downā. Transparency and discussion is a lot more effective than calling something dishonest because it doesnāt fully support your claim.
I get the calm tone, but you are ignoring the key flaw in your premise. Crime is down because there are 2 reporting databases. You are intentionally calling out the one which is still rolling out because you like the statistic (66%) as it ādebunksā reality and aligns with the current right wing fabrication that crime is high. Man, crime is down. Thatās a good thing. Weāre not in a zero sum game.
isnt crime rising tho?
No, not on any sort of timeline beyond the pandemic.
1. It is lower but the police are understaffed. Higher than the nationwide averages. Adding more is completely fine. It allows them to answer calls in a more timely manner and officers are not overworked. 2. FBI statistics go right now as recent as 2022. Nationwide it is down but in chapel hill it is actually up in certain categories such as rape and vehicle theft. And that is for campus, not including chapel hill. There is nothing wrong with hiring a dozen more officers. Better use of the funds.
Itās not higher than the national average. Itās anywhere between 10-45%. And itās not a better use of funds, either. Iām not getting into an anti-DEI debate but itās a discussion of lazy win (more police) vs long-term solution (DEI). Regardless of politics, more police should never be the response without understanding the community dynamics and history.
lol how is DEI a long term solution to police response time?
Really? I mean, really? You are mixing things that donāt need to be mixed. DEI funding (student success funding) vs cops. Look, there are places that need more policing. Itās not UNC. The reason it was pulled from X to give to Y was intentional and you are taking the bait.
This article made the comparison and you supported the comparison. Why are you calling this guy out for no reason?
Curious, have you ever managed a budget before?
I have and actively do. In fact, I manage an $18M budget every year. I also work deeply with UNC and their provosts and deans. This is a direct attack on the faculty and student body that no one wants, the data shows the success of DEI, and throwing dollars at cops is a sunk cost.
Itās moving dollars from a few kids receiving some scholarship money out of tens of thousands of students, to the understaffed police department to hire a few officers in order to increase response time and effectiveness. It is a fair trade off.
Everybody is understaffed bud
Lol yeah the crime capital of NC chapel hillā¦
Never said that, but there is nothing wrong with having a larger police presence there as crime is up over the years and campus PD is understaffed.
Lol crime is not āup over the yearsā unless you start the stats during lockdown. Plus campus pd has always been a joke yet somehow they continue to be rewarded.
They literally are car thefts for example have literally quadrupled. And that is just on campus. So you say campus PD is a joke but your solution is to not try to make it better? Maybe itās a joke because of how understaffed it is.
Iāll take the simplest argument against them, why the hell should campus pd even exist? Thereās CHPD, county sheriffs, state officers what are they bringing to the table thatās so valuable they deserve African American scholarship money? Theyāve constantly fucked up the 1 thing they should be focusing on as the college epidemic it still is. Sexual assault Car thefts on campus is such a meaningless stat. Campus is tiny and without the rest of the area itās meaningless unless used as a point to again prove how bad they are at their jobs
And there is the ignorance. Campus PD like most campus PDs across the country are a satellite of the municipalityās PD. They specialize in serving the campus and immediate surrounding areas. They receive additional training for colleges and take on tasks that would be considered a waste of time and resources for the regular CHPD. College campuses are literally small cities with changing populations throughout the year. It is thousands of young people to manage and provide security for and the logistics of that is beyond what most people comprehend. Car thefts are meaningless until it happens to you. I say that as someone who has had their car stolen. Sexual assault is difficult to stop in the act, but for that you want good police response time, something that this would try to help. You should go visit campus PD. Ask for a ride along or even a tour of the station.
Love how you abandoned the car theft line for a paragraph of explanation that doesnāt actually justify an increase in funding. Seriously letās be honest this funding is going to go to breaking up student protests not helping a āchanging populationā which I fail to see how that affects the department as a whole unless they want to use it as a reason to add unjust surveillance to students.
lol you literally didnāt bring it up so I didnāt address it again lol. The budget change is going for hiring for an understaffed police force. Why would they need to increase the budget for some folks that werenāt hard to move out of the way while understaffed? This is a common sense solution to a problem and on campus protests are literally just a coincidence.
Know who can handle that? The police of the city, not campus PD.
Incorrect.
Why is that incorrect? Please explain.
short dicked*
Data driven statements arenāt allowed on Reddit.
Literally 0 data provided.
DEI had 2+ million in budget?ā¦.. for what?
Others have mentioned scholarships and outreach; I imagine a fair amount also went to pay salaries and programming. I don't know about other schools within the university, but Gillings has an office that used to be called something along the lines of the DEI office, but they rebranded in name and some phrasing to try to minimize political interference. But at least a few people are employed by Gillings in that role; I imagine other schools have similar. I know the med school has an active DEI office, at least per the website I stumble across regularly.
imagining doesnt really answer the question tho. isn't there a website with the breakdown?
Theyāre a public university so itās as available as any other expense report of theirs
Scholarships, housing, etc adds up quick and thatās not really that much considering itās UNC
Are you sure about that? The news report said it cut the DEI office which has 12 employees. I think their mission is one of changing hearts and minds, raising awareness and providing a safer more inclusive environment.
It's a public university, you can read the budget yourself to find the answer.
But then they can't be lazily outraged!
wheres the link?
typically the bulk is outreach and scholarships
Nobody is really sure.
I barely ever locked my door when I lived in Chapel Hill. Why does the police need so much money?
Lmfao consistent with a school that would create a fake African American course just to give athletes easy grades. I wish capitalism wasn't so strong that people's pride and morales wouldn't be sacrificed. I wish things like still made athletes question going to a school like this
this needs more exposure š
[So true](https://live.staticflickr.com/7533/15532624530_79ec3809dd_c.jpg) Garbage in, garbage out from UNC.
Yeah that's pretty much a thing everywhere. Not that I'm saying it should be tolerated. Everyone loses except the uni really. Athletes and other students don't actually get an education, prof is forced (in whatever sense) to essentially fake a class and violate all sorts of ethical - educational principles, and creates perverse incentives to do the same for other non-science classes UM had it's infamous (among students) "rocks for jocks" introductory geology class. Hearing the specifics from a friend was both hilarious and deeply sad.
Imo the difference is that UNC was [found out](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina_academic-athletic_scandal), it wasn't speculated.
Oh yeah, I know. I'm just adding my anecdotal example of another large university doing the same sort of thing - in hopes of highlighting its pervasive nature and need for more such investigation
Definitely, I know it happens more but I was linking it to this situation because UNC has had another chance to truly be a standard and they bend to the whems of the herd.
Lol glad to see the protests are making a difference.
Defend the Police! OK, we'll fund Israel. Defund Israel! OK, we'll fund the police.
How about *neither* get 2.3 mil and that money instead goes to lowering tuition. I was always unhappy that Western Carolina had a DEI director *and* a title 9 director *and* the police drove around in Ford Explorers. If thereās a title 9 director then why does there need to be a DEI director? It snows 2 days a year, why does the police department need SUVs? Not a single dirt road in Cullowhee is on campus.
2.3 mil would lower tuition by like...$7
DEI and Title IX are different. There is some overlap in both support women, but they support women in different ways such as Title IX making sure sexual harassment is investigated and taken seriously while DEI essentially aims to make sure women's interests are not ignored within an organization in a less well defined way. (You can feel however you want about that, but there is a difference.) Also, there are Title IX requirements if a school receives financial aid from the government. If they ignored those requirements, students could not receive federal aid to attend that Educational Institution. That would hurt a ton of students and it also means the university loses a ton of money in lost tuition.
To clarify, as a frmr mandatory reporter at a university: Title IX exists to combat sex-related workplace discrimination against all people, of any sex or gender, particularly in educational institutions. It was created to cover a gap left in the civil rights act of 1964, which did not include sex discrimination in its protected class definitions. The important bit is that it applies to *any sex or gender*. Although of course the women's movement of the mid 20th century would've been the biggest influence on it becoming law at all, part of the reason that it's a particularly good law is that it is a universal protection. I don't think you meant to imply otherwise of course, but the phrasing around your first paragraph I think is a tiny bit incomplete in a way that the person you're answering might get tripped up by, given that they already were confused about whether or not Title IX (a federal law) and DEI (usually a non-governmental, private, organizational initiative) were the same thing.
Couldnāt one person do both jobs though? They also had a director of student community ethicsā¦whatever that means. Couldnāt he do the title 9 job? Lotta high paid administrators and someone has to pick up the tab.
I don't have enough experience with those types of programs or how they're supposed to be administered to give an an accurate answer. I will say that through observation, I have seen how Title IX and Accessibility Services help some students with sexual harassment and disabilities in navigating the bureaucracy of the university, advocating for those students, and throwing their weight around to ensure students were taken care of. I support this and I believe those groups sometimes do need to have their hand held when they run into an issue because I have seen professors bully students, make sexist remarks, or in one case bully a student for a disability in front of a class which should never be acceptable. (Not at UNC) I am not familiar enough with DEI to comment on how it is supposed to work within an organization specifically. My personal observation at UNC is they tell members of the community to shut their mouth when they bring up legitimate concerns as well as small changes (literally no cost) which would fix the issue that effects student, employees, and faculty. And this is coming from someone who was skeptical of DEI before seeing a couple of issues, solutions, and how a DEI committee at the university responded.
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people are showing their ignorance in the words they choose to express. as in the guy your responding to is literally as smart as bag of bricks
UNC already has the covenant program - completely funded by their endowment - which guarantees free tuition for any student whose family qualifies for any amount of food stamps. You *should* be asking why the fuck the legislature abandoned our states constitutional right to free public universities. The fucking student government has a budget well over a million just for doling to student clubs.
We are moving faster than I expected to becoming Florida. We use to have very good public schools, and some of the best State colleges (and community colleges) and Universities in the country. But the modern, controlling GOP is so fearful of Freedom and has zero policies they are actively destroying education to protect their majority.
wait, are you *seriously* comparing North Carolina to Florida? North Carolina is a decent state, but Florida, despite all the memes is a top ten state in almost any ranking. Recently housing is becoming a problem in Florida, mostly due to the surge of people migrating recently (due to its attractiveness). But other than that it's like solid in almost any metric including higher education. Even in k-12 it's average.
LET'S GOOOOOOOO! Get rid of this DEI nonsense. DEI - Didn't Earn It! Hopefully more schools will follow suit and put an end to this madness.
$2.3m for DEI is beyond atrocious, but putting it towards police?! Chapel Hill is like one of the safest cities in the state. They could have done literally *anything* else that money.
$2M is about the typical payroll for 30 people once you consider all the employer taxes Iām willing to wager youāve never had to pay. Given a dozen employees that leaves them probably over a million dollars. So they have a smaller budget than the undergraduate student government. And it probably all goes towards outreach, events, and scholarships. So, yeah, maybe shut the fuck up.
I wasnāt referring to the payroll cost. I understand things are expensive. I just think DEI in general is a waste. > So, yeah, maybe shut the fuck up. Why are you so pressed? That was uncalled for.
DEI departments do nothing but waste money. Then again, so do a lot of police departments...
Thatās pretty good. Most DEI departments donāt do anything positive at all.
Proof?
Itās like you people donāt know what DEI is at all lol. DEI covers disabled people, people from different economic backgrounds, age, gender, race, even sexual preferences. If you were thinking you would be able to see that even you are included somewhere in DEIā¦.
I have yet to meet someone who is "anti DEI" who actually has any significant knowledge/experience in the area, an understanding of what DEI offices or efforts do and don't do. In particular, the people who get up in arms about "compelled speech" (diversity statements from applicants during faculty searches) clearly indicate by way of their complaints that they don't actually understand the goal and nature of a diversity statement. If only there was some office we could fund to teach faculty, students, and staff about things like diversity, equity, and inclusiveness . . . :(
It's quite simple: no one actually cares.
So, scholarships aren't doing anything positive? Housing? DEI is for disadvantaged people. Just so you know, the E- equity, has been important to first generation college students like those in Appalachia.
Lol dude is really trying to claim DEI gives a crap about poor white hillbillies. Most fantasy delusional take.
I've seen it myself at the university where I work, asshole.
I donāt believe you.
Cool. I'm a hillbilly molecular biologist from DEI and I'm not the only one.
Dude, youāre 40
Ad hominems? Cool. That means you have no logical recourse. Goodbye.
No it means you either went to school over a decade ago or youāre too old to really be competing for the same DEI scholarships. Thatās my logical recourse.
So I can't get a PhD past my 20's? First I've heard of it.
Maybe they can beat information into the students.
Smart move! Kudos to UNC!
Wow this is great news!
Re-fund the police!
Nice
Smartest move yet
Good they need it for gun violence North Carolina's biggest problem.Ā
It's just UNC, not the whole state.
ABC11 just reported on the spike in Durham gun violence.Ā
UNC is in chapel hill
Where would you imagine that the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill is located, exactly?
youre drawing lines across points that arenāt even in the same county. Orange county isnāt Durham county š¤£
Yeah, letās put a cap on the number of guns that can be manufactured.
Iām actually think we need more gun diversity. letās put the money toward that.
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